The Herd with Colin Cowherd – 3 & Out: Jayden Daniels Out, AGAIN, Russ vs. Payton, and Why Backup QBs Matter

Release Date: October 23, 2025
Host: John Middlekauff
Guests/Contributors: Jackson (Producer)

Episode Overview

On this episode of “3 & Out,” John Middlekauff breaks down the current NFL quarterback injury landscape, questions surrounding the durability of dual-threat quarterbacks in today’s league, and why truly great offensive coaching is reflected in resilience with backup QBs. He also analyzes Sean Payton’s headline-making comments about Russell Wilson and the shifting coaching carousel in college football, bringing on producer Jackson for an in-depth, lively discussion on coaching hot seats, program expectations, and the future of several iconic schools.

With a nuanced, opinionated tone that blends nostalgia with sharp present analysis, John and Jackson pull no punches as they debate what matters most in both the NFL and the ever-chaotic college football world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

NFL Quarterback Durability, Recklessness, and the Impact of Injuries

[04:47–16:14]

• Jayden Daniels (Commanders) Concern: Daniels' repeated injuries prompt a broad discussion about the increasing recklessness of mobile, dual-threat quarterbacks. Middlekauff questions whether modern QBs are too emboldened by rule changes protecting them, leading to unsustainable, risky play styles.

  • “[Daniels] is pretty reckless, doesn't protect himself… but when you run around… your overall game is not sustainable.” – John Middlekauff [05:57]

• League Context & Player Safety: Cites NFL's evolution from violent “hospital-ball” past to today’s CTE-sensitive, player-protected era, suggesting an “overcorrection” in how defenders are now penalized for hits.

  • “No one’s trying to hurt anyone anymore... these targeting penalties, it’s not John Lynch 1996.” – John Middlekauff [08:02]

• Recklessness and Consequences: Critiques young QBs (Daniels, Jackson Dart, Brock Purdy) for not protecting themselves, warning that NFL-caliber defenders can still inflict career-altering injuries. Praises Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray for pragmatic self-preservation.

  • “You get to the NFL… These guys are big, fast, strong. You will get injured.” – John Middlekauff [11:13]
  • “You’re not careful… [Micah Parsons] will send you to the blue tent, could knock you out a month, could end your season.” – John Middlekauff [14:06]

The Critical Value of Backup QBs & Coaching

[16:15–20:51]

• Shanahan vs. Harbaugh on QB Injuries:

  • Kyle Shanahan’s 17-7 record with backups is contrasted with John Harbaugh’s 2-6 mark in Lamar Jackson's absence.

  • Matt Mayoko’s comments on Shanahan’s near “lifetime contract” and unbeatable value to the 49ers are cited.

    • “That's where your value is derived from… you can take random guys and continue to win.” – John Middlekauff [17:16]
• The True Test of Great Coaches:
  • Andy Reid and Sean Payton’s legacies highlighted as defined not just by winning with elite QBs, but by succeeding with “random guys” and getting the best out of backup/undervalued passers.
    • “We know Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay... give them the best QB, they're going to dominate. What do you do when I take that guy away?” – [17:31]

Russell Wilson vs. Sean Payton: Is Outrage Overblown?

[20:52–26:55]

• Optics Over Reality:
  • Delves into the online drama following Sean Payton’s praise of Giants QB Jackson Dart and the perceived snub of Russell Wilson. Middlekauff distinguishes actual intent from social media narratives, calling the uproar “insane” and a byproduct of internet groupthink rather than football reality.
    • “If you were a coach, a gambler, anybody, you’d rather play Russell Wilson than Jackson Dart… 100% universally agreed upon.” – John Middlekauff [24:43]
  • Woody Johnson’s critical comments on Justin Fields are discussed as an example of everyone privately agreeing a QB is bad, yet feigning outrage when it’s said publicly.

Monday Night Doubleheaders & NFL Broadcasting Changes

[27:27–29:09]

• Nostalgia for the Old Format:
  • Middlekauff laments the dilution of Monday Night Football’s uniqueness through increased doubleheaders, admitting he’s “a dying breed” but predicting even more multi-game slates in the NFL’s future.
    • “Monday Night Football should be a sacred place for one game.” – John Middlekauff [28:43]

College Football Coaching Carousel: Hot Seats, Candidates & Job Hierarchy

Segment: College Football Hot Seat Roundtable with Jackson
[34:18–63:11+ (spans much of the middle and later episode)]

• Who’s in Jeopardy Next?
  • Names like Hugh Freeze (Auburn), Mike Norvell (Florida State), Brian Kelly (LSU), and Luke Fickell are analyzed.
  • The growing complexity and cost of firing high-profile coaches is acknowledged (e.g., Norvell’s $76M buyout).
    • “It’s just really difficult to fire [guys like Brian Kelly or Norvell]. If you fire them, you need someone better, and that’s just as expensive.” – John Middlekauff [39:20]
  • Pressure rising at schools falling behind not just Alabama/Georgia, but also upstarts like Vanderbilt and Missouri.
    • “Once Vanderbilt and Clark Lee are working you, I can’t… if I was a fan, I wouldn’t even be able to take him seriously anymore.” – John Middlekauff [49:31]
• Challenges of ‘Buying Teams’ in the Portal Era:
  • Overreliance on transfers (FSU, Auburn) is criticized as lacking cohesion, rapport, and proven long-term success.
    • “Buying your whole team is not going to work… Best teams are mostly homegrown.” – John Middlekauff [44:55]
• Florida vs. Penn State — Which Is the Better Job?
  • Middlekauff argues Florida is a much better landing spot now: expectations are lower due to recent struggles, while Penn State’s patience is thin and expectations very high.
    • “Florida’s standard is pretty low… If you went 9–3 at Penn State, people would be like, ‘What are we doing?’ At Florida, they’d throw a parade.” – John Middlekauff [61:07]
• Realities of Hiring Alma Mater Coaches & Career Mobility:
  • Skepticism is raised that “dream job” hires like Clark Lee or Brent Key (from their alma maters) would actually turn down better-funded offers from bigger SEC programs given today’s landscape.
    • “You got to be very conditionally loyal… you got to strike when the iron’s hot, it’s a cutthroat job.” – John Middlekauff [69:04]
• Wildcard Moves & The Lane Kiffin Effect:
  • Lane Kiffin remains the “sexy” name every program covets for making a big splash.
  • Jeff Brohm (Louisville) is highlighted as an underrated but proven candidate, potentially an ideal fit for Penn State or Florida.
    • “Jeff Brohm… 20 years ago, we’d be talking about him like the #1 coaching candidate not named Lane Kiffin. But it does feel like he’s an afterthought.” – John Middlekauff [80:39]

The Future of Displaced Head Coaches

[81:54–86:11]

• James Franklin’s Next Move:
  • Doubt he’d take mid-tier jobs (UCLA, OK State, VA Tech), but SEC openings (Auburn, Arkansas) could attract him.
  • Franklin’s recruiting strength and adaptability discussed, especially for programs seeking revitalization.
    • “He’s actually probably more suited to go to Auburn or Arkansas and build that type of team.” – John Middlekauff [83:15]

Outside the Box: Jon Gruden as a College Head Coach?

[90:41–94:45]

• Middlekauff is less confident than in preseason about Gruden returning to lead a college program, citing little recent buzz and uncertainty about ADs’ interest.
  • “Developing a relationship with a sixteen-year-old kid kind of sucks… But it’s kind of what you got to do [in college].” – John Middlekauff [93:38]
  • Still, acknowledges some skills (charisma, recruiting) might translate well if he tried.

Heisman Race Talk

[95:04–103:37]

• Focuses on Diego Pavia (Vanderbilt) and Ty Simpson (Alabama) as leading, “fun” candidates given their outlier performances.
  • “[Pavia’s] the most fun player in the league, in the country, right now… I’d vote for Diego Pavia today.” – John Middlekauff [97:29]
• The importance of primetime performance and unique moments in winning the award is discussed.

Personal Reflections & Closing

[105:10–110:58]

• Middlekauff and Jackson humorously discuss Middlekauff’s impending fatherhood, reflecting on the surreal hustle and odd disconnect men can feel pre-birth, expectations for sleeplessness, and the evolution of parenting norms and lifestyles.

  • “They have this human growing in them… you realize the disconnect. They’re connected, it’s moving, yet I just live my life like before.” – John Middlekauff [105:32]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You get to the NFL… These guys are big, fast, strong. You will get injured.” – John Middlekauff [11:13]
• “Shanahan’s 17 and 7 with backup QBs. That’s where your value is derived from.” – John Middlekauff [17:16]
• “No one’s asking you to play like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady where you don’t move… but you can’t take unneeded hits.” – John Middlekauff [16:06]
• “[Sean Payton] was putting your guy on a pedestal… This became a national story, and it’s just insane.” – John Middlekauff [24:43]
• “Monday Night Football should be a sacred place for one game.” – John Middlekauff [28:43]
• “It’s just really difficult to fire [guys like Brian Kelly or Norvell]. If you fire them, you need someone better, and that’s just as expensive.” – John Middlekauff [39:20]
• “Florida’s standard is pretty low… If you went 9–3 at Penn State, people would like, ‘What are we doing?’ At Florida, they’d throw a parade.” – John Middlekauff [61:07]
• “Jeff Brohm… 20 years ago, we’d be talking about him like the #1 coaching candidate not named Lane Kiffin. But it does feel like he’s an afterthought.” – John Middlekauff [80:39]
• “They have this human growing in them… you realize the disconnect. They’re connected, it’s moving, yet I just live my life like before.” – John Middlekauff [105:32]

Important Timestamps

• Jayden Daniels & QB Injuries: 04:47–16:14
• Backup QBs & Coaching Value: 16:15–20:51
• Russ vs. Payton & League Optics: 20:52–26:55
• Monday Night Football Nostalgia: 27:27–29:09
• College Football Coaching Carousel: 34:18–81:54 (various)
• Heisman Watch: 95:04–103:37
• Personal/Fatherhood Talk: 105:10–110:58

Summary & Tone

This episode blends classic Middlekauff bluntness with deep football know-how and wry humor. It’s an unvarnished window into the unpredictable world of NFL quarterback play and the high-wire act of coaching—at both the pro and college levels. From scathing takes on “reckless” young QBs to savvy advice on SEC job hunting, the show offers actionable insights for fans and insiders alike. The college football segment, led by both John and Jackson, is lively, fast-paced, and loaded with candid, sometimes irreverent player and coaching assessments, marked by a willingness to challenge sports world assumptions.

Note: Ads, show intro/outro, and non-content segments have been omitted from this summary for clarity and focus.