3 & Out - Jerry Jones Speaks, Aaron Rodgers and the Jets, Kauff on Campus

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd Episode: 3 & Out - Jerry Jones Speaks, Aaron Rodgers and the Jets, Kauff on Campus
Release Date: November 27, 2024

The Herd with Colin Cowherd delves deep into the pressing sports narratives of the day, providing insightful analysis and candid opinions. In this episode, hosts John Mittelkopf and Jackson tackle significant topics including Dallas Cowboys' GM Jerry Jones' recent comments, the tumultuous situation surrounding Aaron Rodgers and the New York Jets, and an extensive discussion on the evolving landscape of college football. Below is a detailed summary of the key segments covered in the episode.

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1. Jerry Jones Speaks

Timestamp: 39:26 - 48:38

John Mittelkopf initiates the discussion by highlighting Jerry Jones' unique approach as a General Manager (GM) in the NFL. Unlike many other team owners or GMs who maintain a low public profile during the season, Jones frequently makes headlines with his outspoken nature.

Key Points:

• Jerry Jones' Communication Style: John notes, "Jerry's overboard. It feels a little excessive as of late" ([XX:XX]). He contrasts Jones with other GMs like Howie Roseman and Les Snead, who are typically silent.

• Coaching Stability and Future: The conversation pivots to Mike McCarthy's contract status. When asked about a possible extension, Jones' comments were ambiguous, leading to speculation about McCarthy's future. John mentions, "If you believe Jerry still is cognitively there... this would ensure that his team doesn't quit on Mike McCarthy" ([XX:XX]).

• Potential Coaching Changes: The hosts debate the likelihood of major coaching changes, including rumors about Deion Sanders potentially taking over the Cowboys. John expresses skepticism, stating, "There is no way... that team would play for you" ([XX:XX]).

• Team Performance and Draft Implications: The discussion touches on the Cowboys' current performance and how it affects their draft position, which in turn impacts their ability to retain or attract coaching talent.

Notable Quotes:

• John: "Jerry's just an outlier. Listen, I speak for a living, so I get it. Jerry likes to hear himself talk." ([40:27])
• John: "There is no way... don't draft us. We won't play for you." ([41:XX])

2. Aaron Rodgers and the Jets

Timestamp: 48:38 - 58:25

The conversation shifts to Aaron Rodgers' situation with the New York Jets amid swirling media reports and rumors about his future.

Key Points:

• Media Speculation vs. Reality: John discusses how media narratives often amplify unverified stories, leading to misinformation. "A lot of the legacy media... don't believe what I'm being told" ([50:00]).

• Aaron Rodgers' Denials: Rodgers has publicly denied various rumors, including those about undergoing scans or having conflicts within the team. John notes, "Aaron Rodgers... denied it all" ([49:XX]).

• Role of New Coaching Staff: The future of Rodgers is closely tied to the incoming general manager and coaching staff, who will ultimately decide his role. "Next coach and the general manager will determine what happens to him" ([53:XX]).

• Player Stability: The stability of key players like Rodgers is uncertain, especially with potential changes in team leadership and strategy.

Notable Quotes:

• John: "I just think you just have to... take some of this stuff with a grain of salt." ([52:14])
• John: "Aaron Rodgers is one of the more polarizing players in SP. He's kind of the LeBron of the NFL." ([53:XX])

3. Kauff on Campus: The State of College Football

Timestamp: 58:25 - 91:31

The bulk of the episode is dedicated to an extensive analysis of college football, focusing on the impacts of the Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) era, the transfer portal, and conference dynamics, particularly the dominance of the SEC.

Key Points:

• NIL and Transfer Portal Impact: John and Jackson discuss how NIL deals and the transfer portal have significantly altered college football. They argue that these changes have led to a dispersion of talent, making traditional powerhouses like LSU and Alabama less dominant and allowing teams like Ole Miss and Indiana to rise unexpectedly.

• SEC Dominance and Bias: There is a strong focus on the SEC's continued dominance in college football, attributing it to successful coaching, recruitment, and media exposure. John asserts, "The SEC bias exists simply because Nick Saban won six championships over the last years" ([54:39]).

• College Football Unpredictability: The hosts highlight the increased unpredictability in college football schedules and outcomes. They reference numerous upsets and discuss how teams' schedules have become more challenging, contributing to the current volatility.

• Specific Team Analyses:

  • Alabama Crimson Tide: They explore Alabama's struggles with quarterback performance, particularly Jalen Milroe, and how coaching strategies might need to adapt.
  • Oklahoma Sooners: The conversation covers Oklahoma's offensive woes and the potential future of their quarterback Jackson Arnold.
  • Indiana Hoosiers: Indiana's unexpected success despite a challenging schedule is examined, with discussions on whether they deserve playoff consideration.
  • Arizona State Sun Devils: The turnaround under coach Kenny Dillingham is praised, noting their rise from being picked 16th to contenders for the Big 12 title.

• Recruitment Challenges: The hosts debate the efficacy of large NIL deals for quarterbacks and how these financial incentives may not translate to on-field success. They express concerns about the cohesion of teams when star players receive substantial NIL payouts, potentially leading to resentment and decreased team performance.

• Future of College Football Playoffs: With the ongoing chaos, the hosts speculate on how playoff bids might be influenced by current season performances and conference championships, emphasizing the SEC's influential role.

Notable Quotes:

• John: "College football has dramatically changed in the NIL transfer portal era." ([41:08])
• Jackson: "Which loss is worse? 9 Ole Miss losing at Florida or 7 Alabama losing to Oklahoma?" ([43:00])
• John: "These quarterbacks are struggling... How does this affect team cohesion?" ([84:45])

Conclusions and Insights

Throughout the episode, John and Jackson provide nuanced perspectives on the evolving landscapes of both the NFL and college football. They emphasize the importance of leadership stability, the unpredictable nature of modern sports dynamics, and the profound effects of financial and administrative changes on team performance. Their candid discussions shed light on the complexities facing teams and players today, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the current sports environment.

Final Remarks: The episode wraps up with a preview of upcoming Thanksgiving Day games and a light-hearted exchange about personal plans and experiences, maintaining an engaging and relatable tone.

Overall Takeaway: The Herd with Colin Cowherd delivers an insightful exploration of significant sports topics, blending expert analysis with engaging conversation. Whether you're a die-hard sports fan or someone looking to stay informed, this episode offers valuable perspectives on the most pressing issues in the sports world today.

Transcript

[John Mittelkopf]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

[e-mail] this is Doug Gottlieb from All.

[John Mittelkopf]

Ball with Doug Gottlieb. Listen, I'm going to get serious for a minute.

[LeVar Arrington]

The hate in our country is getting out of control.

[John Mittelkopf]

In fact, it's sadly at an all time high. But it's going to take all of.

[LeVar Arrington]

Us to stop it. I mean, we're all on the same.

[John Mittelkopf]

Team in this country. So let's take a break from our.

[LeVar Arrington]

Hate so our team can regroup. We need to take a time out against hate. Visit standuptolhate.org to help and join me.

[John Mittelkopf]

In calling for time out against hate by following at what's up with Hate or posting the Blue Square Emoji.

[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

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[Jackson]

The volume.

[John Mittelkopf]

What is going on everybody? John Mittelkopf 3 and out podcast hopefully you're doing well getting ready for Thanksgiving Hanging out with the fam. Happy Thanksgiving. I appre I'm very, very grateful for all you guys. Hopefully everyone has a great day. This will be the last podcast until Friday when we react to the games. So yeah, hopefully everyone has a good couple days. We will discuss Jerry Jones had some comments about McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers on his future. We will also hit on the three games for from a gambling perspective, who I like. Coming up for Thursday, we have Lions hosting the Bears. We have just an incredible matchup of DeVito slash Lock versus Cooper Rush with Tom Brady on the call and then the night game which is not bad at all. Miami Dolphins going to the cold weather and playing the Packers. So we will hit on that. There will be no podcast on Thursday, so this will be the last show obviously because people be home drinking, eating, enjoying, not doing much on Turkey day, watching some football. And we will have a podcast for Friday that will also just, you know, for the rest of the weekend. But other than that, you guys can find all the content. If you're listening on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to Three and Out podcast. Make sure we're on YouTube as well. So go check that out and subscribe. And before we dive into some football, you know, I got to tell you about my partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game Time. Here's the thing. Do you know what's right around the corner? Christmas. Do you know what I did last year for Christmas is I gave my brother and his wife a pair of tickets to a concert. And I got him pretty close to front row. And he told me after, he's like, you know what? I don't know if I could ever go to a concert again without sitting that close. I'm like, hey, that's what Game Time does for you. They take care of you. Because if you want to go to a concert, if you want to go to a game, it's the time to give. Do something for someone else. Get your dad some tickets to a game. Get, you know, your wife and her friends, make her Christmas, get her some tickets to her favorite concert coming up in 2025 and do it with the best app I've ever used when it comes to buying tickets. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase terms. Apply. Again, create an account and Redeem the code JOH N$20OFF. Download the game Time out today. Last minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. Okay, well, you know, the thing with Jerry is every week you're Going to get some quotes because he talks, unlike every other owner, multiple times every week. And while he is technically the GM as well, most GMs. Do you notice you don't hear from much during the season, if at all. When's the last time Howie Roseman gave a comment? When's the last time you heard some scorching take from Les Snead? Right. Is Brett Veatch coming off the top rope with some thoughts on either his team, other teams, or just in general football? They don't really talk because once the season starts, typically one, the owner doesn't get any benefit from ever speaking. It's why Jerry's such an outlier. Listen, I speak for a living, so I get it. Jerry likes to hear himself talk. I guess there are parts even if you don't, you know, speak for a living. There are parts that we all do. But Jerry's overboard. It feels a little excessive as of late. And, you know, the elephant in the room is like, who's going to be the Cowboys next coach? Is Deion Sanders really on the table? Which becomes, I would say, less likely with every game they win because they aren't going to have the number one pick. Hell, they probably aren't even going to sniff the top five. They could rattle off some wins and all of a sudden be drafting, like, 13th. And unlike the National Basketball association, even if they were to hire Deion as their head coach, there just is no way, like, don't draft us. We won't play for you. That's not the way the NFL works. Someone would 1 million percent draft Shador Sanders if they wanted to. If they viewed him as a high pick, he wouldn't just fall held the one time, the last time it happened with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers, Eli dropped a couple spots. Like, there is no way to orchestrate this. Like you can in, you know, in basketball, where you've seen that happen constantly when an agent can kind of maneuver their way. We've seen it happen a couple times in football, but it's really just the difference of a team. It's not like I have to go to this team who's drafting 17th, like, yeah, good luck. But Jerry was asked about Mike McCarthy today and about a contract extension and his status. And when I saw the headline, like most people, you're like, what did Jerry say? And I think the hard part about this now is we're going to put Jerry's comments into a couple categories because he's got to fall under one or two things. And when asked about McCarthy status and if he could get a contract extension, Jerry said, that's not crazy at all. And the first thing I wrote down, if you believe Jerry still is cognitively there, and as some people that have covered him said, don't sleep on Jerry being crazy like a fox, this would be a comment that would ensure that his team doesn't quit on Mike McCarthy. This is a comment that they just show life against Washington. They're playing New York on Thanksgiving. You want everyone in that building to think that Mike could still be in charge next year and have a huge impact on your fate, that he is the guy with Jerry Jones deciding who's going to play, who's not going to play, do you get to maintain your status as a Cowboy player? There are really only a couple of guys on the roster that are quote, unquote, on scholarship, right? Dak, cd, Lamb, Diggs, maybe Bland if he's healthy, obviously. Micah if they extend him. But you want the rest of the guys to go, hey, it's pretty good deal playing here, right? You guys make a lot of extra money off the field because you're a Dallas Cowboy player. And don't think for a second that I couldn't bring Mike back. So that felt a little bit like if you assume Jerry still got a little crazy like a fox in him, that's where that comment would kind of come as a curveball. If he is serious that he might resign him, it could just be Simply, listen, I'm 40. I'm not a huge fan of change. Professionally, I will do it. When you just realize, one, you're making a mistake, you could do something better. The industry's changed or whatever. But I would say a pretty consistent theme in my life is, like, I'm pretty regimented and organized in, like, how I like my days and the foods I like eating, and I stay pretty consistent. I'm not a big, like, huge curveball coming up this Wednesday. Like, I understand someone not wanting drastic changes that I can relate to, that some people just kind of blow by the wind wherever it takes, you see what happens. I could imagine. At 82 years old, Jerry ain't really excited about hosting interviews for future coaches and then having to help out and, you know, sign off on new coordinators, new position coaches. Probably feels like a pretty big pain in the ass. Which, like, even if it should happen, part of that also is, like, new schemes, getting rid of some players. It is just a huge, huge undertaking. And I bet at 82 years old, he was praying to God this would work. And the third, maybe he's just completely out of it and just everything he says completely doesn't matter, which is obviously on the table. The older you get that your comments hold less and less weight. And who knows what to believe anytime he talks? Because he's kind of all over the map. And I think it's probably a combination, a little bit of everything. But one thing I do believe coming into the season, as this season is unraveled and as everything has taken place, no owner wants to go on a coaching search if they can't avoid it. Like, in a perfect world, can you imagine what a pain in the ass a coaching search is? 1, it takes a ton of time doing something that is a really educated guess at best, which has proven over and over and over again that even if you know what you're doing and have the right intentions and have the right focus on who you're looking for, it's still a low percentage that you are going to hit a home run higher. So I don't even blame Jerry for just wanting to avoid this and praying that Mike can just rattle off some wins, somehow get this team to like eight or nine wins and be like, you know what, let's just keep this rolling for a couple more years. Here's a two year, $17 million contract extension. But, you know, Jerry finds a way to keep making news. And the other thing is, you know what's funny is, you know when you read explosive articles like the one that came out about Aaron Rodgers and the jets last week, for most of my life at least, I just assumed everything was true. Like when you read. Because anytime that a sports journalist writes an article and you get like, this is the reason he was fired, then he stopped talking to the owner and the owner had it out for him. You put all these pieces together about a player and an agent or whatever, you're just like, this is crazy. And I read an article recently and then I texted someone involved in that organization and they're like, you know, a lot of that article. And this is not someone that had an agenda or anything, honestly, didn't even care. It didn't even really impact him. He was like, it wasn't even true. It was actually the opposite of what was written. And obviously everything that's going on in society right now with the. A lot of the legacy media, from newspapers to some of the prominent, you know, news channels that are dying on the vine right now, a lot of people try to justify it for different reasons. The changing of the landscape, the Internet, the options. I do think there's gist of I don't really believe what I'm being told. So if you lose credibility with me as a consumer, I no longer come back to you. Obviously there are other factors, but sometimes you read an article and you just assume everything is true. Like about Aaron Rodgers when it came out that he was denying, you know, scans on his body, that he was telling people that, you know, him and Woody hate each other, that hell, Woody wanted him benched, that all these different elements. And I think sometimes you got to take some of this stuff with a grain of salt. But same thing. When Aaron Rodgers asked about McAfee like I did, he denied it all. Said one I haven't told anybody about what I plan on doing in 2025, but I've never declined a MRI or scan on a body part when I'm with the Jets. And I think all this stuff makes for great headlines and it explosive stories because his name Aaron Rodgers and he's one of the more polarizing players in SP. He's kind of the LeBron of the NFL. When you just put him into a story, people just gravitate to it and when you read it, you are just, you know, probably going to believe it because so much crazy shit has happened that is, it is believable. But my take would be on just the entire Rogers situation is that none of it really matters, that the next coach and the general manager will determine what happens to him. And he even said as much today of like there is so much unknown that's out of my control. Who's going to be running this operation that we know is going to be two brand new people, that everything's on the table. And that's the way it works in the NFL, right? Because these contracts are guaranteed and when new coaches and new GMs come in that we usually see players up for grabs. There's no telling that like next year Sauce Gardner could be on the trading block around the combine in free agency or Garrett Wilson, like that's. Or Breeze Hall. I'm not saying that's going to take place, but we have seen way crazier. It happens all the time. Jon Gruden got the Raider job and six months later Khalil Mack was on the Bears in the prime of his career at the second most important position in the sport. So everything would be on the table, especially when you're Talking about a 40 year old quarterback who doesn't quite look like himself. But I just think you just, you read some of these stories and trust me, I'm no different than you. I'm like, damn, this is. Whoa, whoa. Damn, Woody. Geez, Aaron. And then you start texting around and you're like, yeah, it's not really the way it played out. Like that's not what happened. And I think, listen, this is a problem that you don't. You just assume things are true. And I do feel for, you know, coaches or definitely players when some of this stuff historically has been, you know, report and it just might not be true. And I'm not defending Aaron. I don't really give a shit. But I just think the jets situation is just so far out of whack that you could write anything and it would be believed because it is believable. 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[Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford]

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[John Mittelkopf]

Okay, let's dive into the Thanksgiving Day games. All these lines presented by my friends at DraftKings. I'm going to need to, I'm going to need to gamble because we're getting this place called Tom's Thumb. We didn't travel back to Northern California, so we're just hanging out here. Pretty low key. We ordered Thanksgiving meal because it's going to be the two of us from this place called Tom's Thumb, which is. Guy Fieri did a, did one of his dinners. Diners drive ins and dives there. It's basically a gas station, which is an incredible barbecue joint. And then we saw on Instagram that they also do catered Thanksgiving where you can basically go pick it up for like two to four people and like, shit, let's do that. So we're doing that. I'm going to get, you know, just.

[Hypnotic]

Eat.

[John Mittelkopf]

An unhealthy amount of food because that is just kind of what you do on Thanksgiving. Maybe order some pie. I'm not a huge pie guy. Like I've never liked pumpkin pie. With this meal you had the choice of pumpkin pie or sweet potato pie. I hate pumpkin pie. I just went with sweet potato pie partly because I've never had sweet potato pie. And the lady on the phone said, actually it's pretty good, people like it. So I'm like, let's get it. But like, I don't like, I don't venture that far when it comes to desserts, you know, ice cream, chocolate cake. Like I don't get too crazy, but I guess sometimes on Thanksgiving you gotta, you know, deal with the hand that you're dealt. So maybe we'll order a separate pie from somewhere else. But I'm very excited to eat a lot of food and watch a lot of football even if these games aren't great. And Tom Brady's, you know, learning a lesson that this $37 million contract is going to force you to call the afternoon game, which is always going to be in Dallas. So you better pray that the Dallas Cowboys are good because if they're not, your Thanksgiving is going to be ruined by Cooper Rush. But the morning starts with the Lions and they are a 10 point favorite at home against the Matt Eber Fluce led Chicago Bears. And I was thinking last Thanksgiving we had, my family actually all came to Arizona and I remember having the game on and remember at the time Jordan Love's season had been pretty up and down and more down than up. And in that first half he was remarkable. And they were up I think 23 to six and a half. And I remember thinking like, didn't the lions lose like 40 to 10 last Thanksgiving? And I looked and the final score was 29 to 22. Now the packers scored eight points, or excuse me, the Lions scored eight points in the fourth quarter to make that score a little closer. But I think if you ask most people what happened last year to the Lions on Thanksgiving is they got their ass kicked. I think we would agree on that. And here's the thing about the Lions, right? They've always got a Thanksgiving day game and it was always kind of their super bowl because their teams usually sucked. So it was like really the one time a year, if you're not a Lions fan that you're kind of forced to watch them start to finish because for a lot of the last 20 plus years they weren't playing Monday night games, they weren't playing prime time games. Like that was their big moment for a team that typically wasn't that good. And then they finally get good and they host the game against the packers, who Aaron Rodgers is now gone and they get killed. So to me, playing the Lions, who are clearly better this year while it's, it's the Bears, not the Packers, I think that they are going to try to be like what happened to us last year on Thanksgiving? Fuck that. We are not allowing that to happen again. I would regardless who they were playing, I wouldn't want to be in this spot playing Detroit in Detroit after last season. I can't even imagine how many times Dan Campbell brought up the egg that they laid last year on Thanksgiving which now like their substance behind them playing by far of the six teams playing, they are clearly the best. There's a gap between them and the Packers. I mean hell, we just saw the Lions went on the road in Green Bay in a rainstorm and kick their ass. So I would not want to be Chicago. Now. On the bright side, like I'd be tempted to lay the 10 points for the Lions, but the Bears, once they fire Shane Waldron are actually playing pretty well. Two weeks ago they lost 2019 all because a field goal got blocked. Now granted a field goal got blocked the exact same way the following week which cost them in a game that they lost by three points in overtime. But again they were just in overtime. So back to back weeks against an 8, 3 team and a 9 and 2 team, they usually could have won both games. Now I would say they had a much better chance of winning the Packer game given that they were up in that than the Minnesota game that they needed to recover an on site kick. But still like it was very admirable the way they have played. And their quarterback looks a lot better. Their offensive weapons look a lot better. DJ Moore looks a lot better. So I might take. I could not bet on Matt Eberfluss. I refuse to do it. And ultimately I think if they lose this game, especially if the Lions cover Eber Fluss has getting fired Friday or Saturday written all over it. Make Thomas Brown the interim coach. Give him like a trial run. The Bears have lost five straight games. Five straight games. Now I would say there's a clear line between the moment they fired Waldron, like the games they were losing to Arizona and New England. They have looked like a different team the last couple weeks because their offense has been, I would say more than credible. And Caleb Williams has looked like a number one pick. But I just, I don't know, man. I have a hard time. This is going to be a stay away from me because the only place I could go would be the Lions. I just can't trust Eberfluss. But you got to take The Bears getting 10 points given the way they've played the last two weeks. Pretty solid though. Morning game. The next game, which I would say looked pretty questionable on paper six months ago, looks dramatically worse as we sit here on Tuesday afternoon, Tom Brady might be on an island and have to entertain us for three hours in a final score. That could be like, I don't know, 18 to 10 written all over it. Cooper rush against Tommy DeVito. Who's our injured? Could be Drew Lock. I actually think of Drew Lock plays. That'd be somewhat of an it. Like if you're the Cowboys, you would rather play DeVito than Drew Lock. But this is why, like to me the story of this game is just simply Tom Brady. You know, I. He's trying, he really is. I think Dan Patrick summed it up pretty well. Sometime in the last, I don't know, couple months, I saw a clip of him on the Internet like it's not Tom Brady's fault that he doesn't know what good TV is. How would he. He was paid $350 million because of his name, because of the brand. He's not a TV guy. Tom Brady was a football player. Like when you watch Joe Buck and Troy Aikman, it's like those kids are TV guys. They've been doing TV now, I mean Joe Buck for his entire life. And Troy has been a full time right hand analyst for over 20 years. You know, even, you know, Tony Romo was just, his personality just was a pretty easy transition. It had a happier Gruden meets Madden type feel and it was easy to see why he excelled. Collinsworth is just a television star. Those guys can just kind of entertain. And I'm interested to see, you know, I just watched Tom call the Packer Niner game. It's been rough and I don't blame him. It's not like they gave him this spotlight. Obviously I don't. What was he going to do? Turn down $350 million to call NFL football games when he can fly day of the game or day before the game on a private jet? It's pretty fucking good gig if you can get it. But it could be rough. So buckle up, have a stiff cocktail, you know, depending on where you live, right around kickoff. Now I would say the game of the day clearly is the night game and for the most part it feels like because the Cowboy and Lions game depending on the year can be very hit or miss. Adding this third game, which it feels like they've been doing for a decade plus. But in recent memory we have got good matchups and at the start of the year you went, hey, the Dolphins have been the back to back playoffs and the Green Bay packers are one of the best organizations in football. So like it looked a little weird when Tua got hurt but since he's come back they've won three straight games and it's just a very intriguing matchup. Here's the problem. It is freezing cold in Green Bay. Decent chance that the game is in the teens and it could be snowing on Thursday night. I looked at some stats on Tua, Tonga, Vailoa. One, the Dolphins in general have not been very good on prime time in like their last 12 games. That game against the Rams helped their record out a lot because going into that game they were 2 and 8. In their last 10 games after winning that game they went to 3 and 9 so. Or excuse me, they were 2 and 9. My math is John did you go to, did you go to college? Did you listen in high school? The answer is kinda and no, not really. But coming into the Rams game, they were 2 and 9 in their last 11 primetime games. Winning that game got him to 3 and 9. So they have not been great in bright light spots, but where they are really terrible. And this to me is a direct reflection of Tua, who actually has looked good these last couple weeks. He's looked like a really good quarterback. Look like a top 10 quarterback in the NFL. He has been atrocious in cold games. And there's a difference in cold games, right? Like that Chiefs game was frigid. It was like negative wind chills. I'm just talking games under 40 degrees. Under 40 degrees. Tua has not won a game in his last seven attempts. He is 0 and 7 in 40 degree or under games. And it's understandable. Doesn't have a great arm. His game doesn't really translate to freezing cold temperatures. And then you factor in the franchise. They play in tropical weather. It's fucking gorgeous. I just a couple days ago, what was that last Friday? Was it last Friday? Saturday? I played with a guy, played golf with a guy that lives in Miami. And I was like, what was the weather? He's like, played golf yesterday. It was gorgeous. Like 80 degrees, no humidity, beautiful. This is why, you know, these six months in Miami are hard to beat. Like, yeah, same thing here. How do you relate to going in that weather? It's why I like Seattle last week. It's like Arizona. Their last two big wins against the jets and the Bears have been in Scottsdale or in Glendale in a controlled environment. Then you got to go to Seattle in late November where the weather can be cold, windy and wet. It's a tough transition. And what happened to Arizona? They look terrible on offense. And Kyler is much more physically gifted with arm strength than Tua. Now this is packers minus three and a half. That extra half point makes you a little nervous. But I have a simple philosophy, like, I will bet against the Jets. I will just bet against the Jets. Who are the jets playing this weekend? I will bet against them. I'll do the same thing with the Miami Dolphins when they play in cold weather, as long as Tua is their quarterback. Now, what's weird about the Dolphins is, you know, their defense under Mike McDaniel has been more than questionable the last three weeks. Now, granted, they have played the Raiders and they played the Patriots last week. They have held teams under 20 points. They have played and they played The Rams, they have been playing very very good defense. I just think this is a mismatch. Like to me this has like, I don't know, 27 to 10 written all over it and just a physical like we're used to playing in this, practicing it and living in it. You're just not So I like the Dolphins and I'm not going to do something. I guess I will I talk about the Raider game before Raiders Chiefs, I guess we can talk about it after. We will do something in regards after these games are played. So I guess I can say something about the Raider Chiefs game on Thursday night after this game finishes and we record a little something something. But that spread I look today feels a little big. Even though the Raiders are in complete shambles, the Chiefs don't really blow people out and that that spread is 12 and a half. Pretty big number honestly, pretty bad reflection of the Raiders. Like listen, we're ten and one and we beat everybody but we don't win games by much. But Vegas thinks you guys are that shitty. Like that's, that's pretty embarrassing. But we'll get into that a little bit later.

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[John Mittelkopf]

Okay, back at it again with my main man Jackson, who is who is truly living the dream. Update Us Are you moving to downtown Old Town Scottsdale as a young man in your how old are you? 23? 24?

[Jackson]

You know I'm 24 years old, John, about to be 25 in two weeks. I tell my mom this all the time. I'm a single man. I've been single for a while for two reasons. One, invested a lot of time in college football. So much parody. Not a lot of time in terms of women and dates and stuff like that. But my second one, I've been living in a little studio for about a year and a half. So now we're. We're branching out to a one bedroom. Don't have to come over. We got a couch. We got a living room. You can come over. John, grab a beer. Like, the studio apartment was just not working. And I think part of it, hopefully my dating love life will increase because I'm in a one bedroom. So that's why it's a little dry in the background. Got the helmet still in the back. Haven't packed those yet, but yeah, we're moving to Old Town, man, it's gonna be. It's gonna be wild.

[John Mittelkopf]

If you can't get it done down there, you might as well just retire.

[Jackson]

Because some of these Scottsdale girls, man, I just don't know, man.

[John Mittelkopf]

Not even. But it's just the, the options are pretty endless.

[Jackson]

Oh, yeah, I would say. Yeah. Unlimited.

[John Mittelkopf]

Good luck in your future endeavors down in Old Town Scottsdale.

[Jackson]

We'll stay locked in. No, but I'm excited. We got a ton of questions. College football just continues to get better and better every week. So I want to start out here. You've covered the sport 15 years plus. Is this the craziest college football season that you've covered or seen? Because, I mean, in the top 25 this season, we've had 49 upsets. Whether it's a lower ranked team meeting a higher ranked team. And then my second question is so much parody in the sport. What's rooted all of this?

[John Mittelkopf]

Well, I would say college football has dramatically changed in the nil transfer portal era. And I think we're really feeling the impacts today more than even the last couple years. Not that we didn't. I mean, we had good players that transferred to other teams, but now the dispersion of talent, like if it didn't exist, I think we would see lsu, Alabama, for example, be a lot better than they are in terms of talent on their roster. And teams like Ole Miss, who has improved greatly, I mean, they're a disaster. They're probably going to end up nine and three, much closer to the mean of seven or six wins, how they've always been. But they have players that would have been on the other team's rosters because they can buy them. And I just think you're seeing these teams like what the hell is the difference of like, I'm just watching Oklahoma play Alabama and you just watch the talent plus conference realignment. Right? Alabama never had to play Oklahoma on the road. Like that was just a game that did not exist. And I think the more and more you have to play these games, it just makes it more difficult. Look at, you know, the Big Ten just adding Oregon, usc. It's just an extra game of not a patsy. And obviously Oregon's better than sc, but you know what I mean? So I think a lot has to do with the transfer portal and I don't think there's going to stop. It's going to be a lot more like the NFL now. The good teams are always going to be the good teams because they have more money. But I think it's going to be much more difficult, you know, for a good team with a tough schedule to go undefeated. Those days are probably going to be few and far between because it never. In the NFL you have an incredible season if you're 14 and three. Like maybe we need to change our mindset of like 10 and 2, if you play in a big conference is a great season.

[Jackson]

Yeah, I saw a couple, I saw a tweet actually. It was a couple years ago when it was the four team format and it was like a ten and two team was like ranked five in the country. And now it's like if you're ten and two, you're ranked 16th, 17th, 15th in the country. So you're right. The parody in the sport, the transfer portal, it's, it's chaotic. That leads me to my second question. Which loss is worse? 9 Ole Miss losing at Florida or 7 Alabama losing to Oklahoma?

[John Mittelkopf]

I actually think Florida's pretty good. And if you put them in the dance right now, I think a lot of people would bet on them to like beat Penn State or like, or let me rephrase. I don't think it's inconceivable that they could be like Penn State or Notre Dame on a neutral site. Right. With their talent. I mean just watch them. Like defensively they got dudes. Obviously the young quarterback, the young running back are good. What's your question again?

[Jackson]

No, you're good. I was just saying which loss. Ole Miss on the road to Florida or Alabama? Oklahoma. I mean both teams were in the driver's seat and now it's like both teams. I think I saw ole Ms. Is 4% to make the CFP and then Alabama's like 11% and people are still thinking that SEC bias, which we'll get into later, that Alabama can still make it. But which loss do you think is worse?

[John Mittelkopf]

I think we also got a preface this all by both these were on the road like playing at the Swamp and playing at Norman at night is not easy. Now Oklahoma this year has been a disaster on offense. I mean statistically I think their offense was one of the worst in the country. And from the eye test they've. I mean they benched Jackson Arnold, they went to the other kid, then they benched him and went back to Jackson Arnold who probably had his finest moment in the program. And I actually give Venables a lot of credit because in the transfer portal era to get benched in his shoes and he was what, like the third or fourth quarterback in Arch Manning's class? Like he was right there, Nico. Like he's a hype guy. He didn't like fuck you guys, I'm out. He stayed. When I went to the Texas game, he was there playing catch.

[Jackson]

I forget the backup quarterback, Michael Hawkins Jr.

[John Mittelkopf]

The other guy, Hawkins, he was like playing. He was playing catch with them and warm ups like he was into it. So like you deserve credit in a day and age where how often in that situation does the Jackson Arnold ever play another snap for Oakland?

[Jackson]

Especially with the whole UNLV thing with Matthew Sluka. He could have said, you know what, I'm a red shirt, I'm going to leave. But he stayed and he didn't even throw the football in Alabama either. I mean he ran for like 115 yards, 120 yards.

[John Mittelkopf]

Yeah, I mean I would imagine Jackson Arnold as the starting quarterback for Oklahoma next year at this pace if he.

[Jackson]

Just can't turn the ball over.

[John Mittelkopf]

Yeah, I would say neither loss is that crazy. Like Alabama, their team just Nick Saban last year had one of the greatest coaching years in the history of his life. It's insane and let's face it, they got a little lucky. They easily could have lost a couple games and they won the Auburn game on a last second. It wasn't quite a Hail Mary because like he threw it like Aaron Rodgers or Brett Favre. He didn't have to heave it, but it was a 40 yard bomb in the back of the end zone to win the game. You lose, they're not in the playoff. Right. I'm pretty sure they lose. They're not even in the SEC championship game. No so it would have derailed everything. I guess my overall take is like, I, I don't think these losses are that crazy. I think we act like it's 2015. Those days are over. All the difference of these teams. Oklahoma is good on defense. D.J. lagway is really, really good. You know, it's like, I don't know. I don't think it's really that nuts. This is not 2014 Alabama. That was a 20 point favorite. Where if they would have lost, this would have been the. We've already seen them lose to Vanderbilt. Right. We saw that happen. I think what makes their season crazy is they, you know, for a half they beat the living piss out of Georgia. Like that's one thing. That's like, God, how did that happen? I think clearly if they played again, Georgia would probably win, right?

[Jackson]

Yeah.

[John Mittelkopf]

At Alabama, at Georgia, neutral field. So overall take, I don't think these upsets are as crazy as the way we're like, you know, not brainwashed, but just wired with college football all of our life. Like those days are over.

[Jackson]

I think I was just more shocked by Ole Miss because they beat Georgia at home coming off of a bye week. Their defensive front looked unstoppable. Jackson Dart looked great, came back off the ankle injury and then they just kind of fell flat to Florida. So my next question to you is.

[John Mittelkopf]

Speaking of Florida, there's a good example, like Jackson Dart. Everyone's been hyping this guy up. Yeah, he has some bad moments early in the season. Then they get it rolling a little bit. I mean, they beat Georgia in a driving rainstorm. Right. It wasn't like it was a tough place to play. Carson Beck was awful. Jackson Dart was making throws in that game that looked like an undrafted free agent. Like it was pretty embarrassing, his decisions. Now he wore it after the game. He was in tears. I saw his press conference. But like the. He threw one ball in the end zone. He threw in a triple coverage.

[Jackson]

Yeah. And it was like a minute 58 left, three timeouts on the 39 yard line. Then they get the ball frozen. Triple coverage.

[John Mittelkopf]

Yeah.

[Jackson]

Then they got the ball back through two interceptions. One was dropped, then threw another one. So basically through three interceptions in one minute.

[John Mittelkopf]

I do think, and I'm not a SEC historian, but if they win this week, which I would imagine is the Egg bowl, right. They're playing Mississippi State, then they win their bowl game. It would be one. Last year's the first time in the regular season they've ever won back to back double digit games. And this would be three straight years of double digit wins. Like you guys aren't Alabama, lsu, Ohio State. Like it's a remarkable run. You're Ole miss. Enjoy it.

[Jackson]

$20 million in nil though. Make the 12 team playoff. I don't know. That's just.

[John Mittelkopf]

They've been brown bagging people there forever. Just a little more.

[Jackson]

Yeah, that's true. I was going to ask you then we'll move on to the next one. In terms of Alabama, I mean you're a former scout. What's been going on with Jalen Milro? Just the inconsistencies from him. And then my second question is we kind of saw Penx with DeBoer. Year one was fine, year two he comes in and just takes off. Do you kind of think is Milro has one more year left that he would go or do you think there's so much hype around him that he'll go and probably be a first, second round quarterback?

[John Mittelkopf]

Well, Michael Penix was a pocket quarterback. Red defenses chuck that thing around like an NFL player. Jalen Milro is like advanced version of what the Colts were hoping for. Anthony Richardson kind of run around, make some big plays. He's not like, I don't think even if he wanted to come back. Kalen Duboer, if you think about the quarterbacks Kaylin Duboer became, Kalin Duboar with on the national level was Jake Haner who was a fifth round pick at Fresno State, who was originally at Washington, and then Michael Penix. These are pocket quarterbacks. Jalen Milroe is kind of a run around. Remember a couple years they benched Jalen Milroe last year. Right. In the second or third game of the season.

[Jackson]

Yeah.

[John Mittelkopf]

So I, I think this thing's over and I listen, he's obviously a very physically gifted guy, but when it just comes to throwing the ball in the pocket, being calm, cool, collected, it's not really his thing. I saw, I saw a clip on Instagram of AJ McCarran say it's kind of like meshing of two philosophies. The way Duboar wins with his offense is not the way Jalen operates. And they've tried to adapt, but it's just hard. And obviously, you know, the best player on their team Potentially is the 17 year old. Maybe he's 18 now, but it's hard to get him the ball unless you're just kind of scrambling, throwing bombs.

[Jackson]

Yeah. In the era of the transfer portal two people are already saying that he's going to transfer after this season because of what's going on this year.

[John Mittelkopf]

I know this. If I was a quarterback who was good, like the equivalent of, you know, the Penix is the Bo Nicks, whoever Will Howard, whoever the top transfer Portal becomes. And there's. We know there's always like 10Al. I would be all over DeBoer in Alabama, wouldn't you? I mean, with the talent they're going to have on offense and an offensive head coach.

[Jackson]

That's why it's tough for him, because Alabama said Alabama, Ohio State are one of those spoiled fan bases. I remember you talking about it on your podcast a couple weeks ago, about how Alabama fans have been so spoiled and then you lose two games, you freak out, you lose three, everyone's freaking out. But it's like, Kayla DeBoer was the perfect hire. It's his first year. Let's relax. He doesn't have most of his guys. You're right too. The. The identity of the quarterback position is not one that he's used to heading in. Like, he just kind of just came into Melro. Yeah.

[John Mittelkopf]

He didn't get to choose a guy. And what was he supposed to do? They just went toe to toe with Michigan and it happened in.

[Jackson]

Happened in like February, I think, too. So it was like after the Portal and then he had to wait till spring. Transfer Portal, guys leaving, guys coming in. So. But speaking of the Portal, how do you view Indiana 10 and 1 after their blowout loss to Ohio State?

[John Mittelkopf]

I don't take him seriously anymore. That second half, I think they had after the first drive. I mean, the quarterback threw for under 100 yards. And this Ohio State team isn't exactly known. Like some of Trestle's dominant defenses of the Urban Myers. Like this is. That's not the vibe here. They don't got Joey, Nick Bosa and Chase Young running after you. But like, they got lucky. Because I think if every. If Chalk just would have handled business on Saturday and all those upsets wouldn't happen. If A and M would have won, Ole Miss would have won in Alabama would have won. I would have said Indiana shit out of luck. But like, three losses is a lot different than one. Even if your schedule is easier. I think. I don't even know who they're playing this week, but Purdue. Yeah, they're who's. I think, like the worst team in the Big Ten. Right.

[Jackson]

Yeah.

[John Mittelkopf]

So I would have. I got no problem with Indiana getting in, given that these teams have three losses. If all those teams had two losses, I would feel no sympathy if they got left out. And I think they would be in grave danger of getting left out. But I do agree like feels like they're in.

[Jackson]

Yeah, they're in. I was going to compare it to like probably the last, the last Power.

[John Mittelkopf]

4 seed though, whatever that is.

[Jackson]

Yeah, I think right now you're going to have a 10 and one Indiana. You're going to have the loser of the ACC game. You could potentially have Clemson, South Carolina depending on how that game goes this weekend. And then you would start to get into the Alabamas of the world potentially speak squeaking their way back in. But I, I think it's got to be Indiana. I mean it sucks because they're probably going to get blown out the first round. And I kind of compare it when I went to the final Four last year where the product wasn't the greatest because they all the games, Yukon just blew everyone out. So I think if you're the cfp, you kind of sit back and you're like, damn, like we don't want any blowout games especially for television ratings money wise and stuff like that.

[John Mittelkopf]

But they've always had, they've always had blowouts. I think the average margin of victory once they went to the final four from the championship game, whatever what year that started like 14 or 15. I think the average margin of victory in the semifinal games was pretty big for like a six year span. So it's, I mean it's inevitable. Could you argue that if Notre Dame were to lose this weekend, usc, they'd still be in or would they be screwed?

[Jackson]

They'd be screwed too. Yeah, they'd be screwed. That NAU lost, man, it's just too tough. But hopefully they can come back and beat usc. We'll see. But my next question for you, ever since I was born, the SEC has dominated the college football world. This season the SEC went no divisions. Last week Greg Sankey complained that you know on Twitter that his top teams based on strength of schedule should get in the playoff over in Indiana. And then this all happens last week. So my question to you is, how do you view what's happened with the sec and do you think the SEC bias is going to carry on to the playoff?

[John Mittelkopf]

What year were you born?

[Jackson]

99.

[John Mittelkopf]

Barely.

[Jackson]

Yeah.

[John Mittelkopf]

Make me feel old. That's good. Good. Good year to be born. You had, you born, right? You never even had shitty Internet. Yeah. Once you came into your own, you just had good high speed WI fi.

[Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. My face. Yeah.

[John Mittelkopf]

Half of my life if you said the word WI fi. No People would look at you like, what is that, a dish at a restaurant? I would say the SEC bias exists simply because Nick Saban won, whatever, six championships over the last. Whatever years. We have several other Cam Newton championship, LSU championship. Like, we have seen other championships. Ohio State basically lands Urban Meyer when he quits the SEC after dominating at Florida multiple national championships and immediately takes them to a national championship. And then the draft every year speaks for itself. They always have the most players drafted. Like, I was talking to Colin about this. Like, I. And listen, I get Joel Klatt's loyalty. He's part of the Big Ten, essentially, right? Fox. And Danny Cannell is an ACC guy at Florida State. And they just. They get so angry at the sec. But I think if you don't have any bias. I didn't go to any of these schools. I went to fucking Cal Poly. I just watch college football because I love it my whole life. If you watch Auburn against A and M or Oklahoma against Alabama and you didn't know, like, the rankings or who's good, who's bad, you would just think, like, look at all the good players on Auburn, like, their speed. Like, how many guys. If. If. Let's just take 10 schools in the Big Ten not named Ohio State or even probably Michigan. How many guys at Iowa or Minnesota or Wisconsin or Nebraska would they want off Auburn's roster or Oklahoma's roster on their ro. Like, would they cut immediately their guy to take that guy? It'd be a ton. And that. That's where it's like, listen, I get, like, well, they're seven and five. They're not that good. Just watch them play, especially. Especially at home, because their environments, I think we have to acknowledge, are way harder to play. And now, because the TV deals I saw, ESPN just tweeted out, like, the television ratings, these SEC games. I mean, like, 5 to 10 million people are watching them all at night because they got the night slots now. And these environments look incredible. Like, I wouldn't say Norman. Oklahoma is known for, like, being the most incredible home field. And that place at night was rocking. So I think when you factor in, like, the NFL talent, all these schools have, like, they've earned the bias. Big Ten could change it. Like, what would the Big Ten do if the PAC12 hadn't dissolved and they didn't just get to add Oregon? We'd be talking about the conference being a joke. It's like, Ohio State. Ohio State's been good. I don't know. I've been alive 40 years. That entire Time, probably even longer. Like Penn State no one takes seriously. Everyone's making fun of Indiana. Like, what would they be? Like, they're like claiming Oregon. Like, Oregon's been there for fucking five minutes. So, like, I, I don't know. I. The other. And the, and the other two conferences, we all acknowledge, like, yeah, they're lucky to get one, right? Did you say, like, do you. Do you think the ACC might get two now?

[Jackson]

Is that, like, they might. They. Yeah, they'll probably get two because both teams being one loss. And if both teams bearing that, Miami doesn't lose to Syracuse next week. I don't know who SMU plays, but they probably play some lower ranked team in the acc.

[John Mittelkopf]

Clemson's out, correct?

[Jackson]

Yeah, they. I mean, you never know with the chaos. They technically still have South Carolina, so they finished their conference games. So if Miami or SMU loses, they would get or not SMU because they clinched. But if Miami loses, they would get into the ACC championship, but it's slim. But they still have a chance if they beat South Carolina to get an AS at large. So.

[John Mittelkopf]

But Miami plays Florida State this week, right?

[Jackson]

I think Miami plays Syracuse.

[John Mittelkopf]

Oh, no, that can't. That game already happened, actually.

[Jackson]

Yeah, that game already happened. But to your point about the Big Ten, like, everyone's complaining about Indiana's schedule being so weak. Like, most of that. Most of their schedule is the Big Ten Conference being 6 and 5, 5 and 6, 7, 4 teams.

[John Mittelkopf]

Like, it's exactly like everyone's ripping their schedule. They just played a pretty normal Big Ten schedule, right? I mean, in those teams, like, we just. Look, you just beat the shit out of Nebraska. Like, you just don't get that much credit for that. Which is not necessarily their fault. But these are the current, the current situation, the actual world we're living in is these teams are just not that good. I wish they were good. I want Nebraska to be good. And every time I watch them, I'm like, God, real is the most overrated player in recent memory. But that, but that is like. But now who's Michigan? Like, all the hype on Michigan is going to be around this Underwood kid who, like all of our lives that we've been following, like college basketball isn't typically like this. If there's a guy at Underwood's level, like the hype at that level or Riola's level, even if the guy doesn't live up to the hype and he's at the number one overall pick, he's like the seventh pick or the 12th pick. In the NBA draft in college football. It's like this guy's going to change the program. Two years later. He's like third string now with transfer portal. He's just gone. So it's like we know the sec, whether the hype or not, like their recruits always turn into big time players. I think the Big ten, some of these schools, the hype hasn't matched the actual player, which has been a major problem for, you know, Riola being average. I don't want to say fuck Nebraska, but it obviously had a huge impact. If Underwood doesn't live up to the hype, which is going to be huge, it's going to be a problem. I had never heard of C.J. stroud and I don't follow recruiting like some, but like he just started now. Obviously he was a big recruit. He's at Ohio State. But you know, it was like, damn, this guy can play and that. You know, I think sometimes now with the money it just has derailed. It's hard.

[Jackson]

I've.

[John Mittelkopf]

I heard a story about Riola. He like lives at this super nice house kind of by himself with some family. Like Matt Liner, when he was going to school, just like had a house probably with like Reggie Bush and like an offensive lineman and it's those. And listen, you could still brown bad guys back then, but it was. Everyone was kind of together and you just played with whoever you came in with the class and then the class under you for like three or four years. And now it's like everyone's kind of. It's almost like pro sports, but also kind of not. It's just a very bizarre time if you don't have the right culture and you're breaking off these freshmen for millions of dollars, which are mainly just the quarterbacks and then they don't live up to it. Imagine being like a guard at Nebraska who's, you know, let's just say you're making 80 grand from them, the nil. And you're a good player. You're like going to be an NFL guy one day. And you see this Riola guy who everyone has been circle jerking for. It feels like probably around the program for several years. I think his uncle's on the staff now. Granted, like they played there. His dad's a legendary player and all you do is hear about this and then you start playing the games. You're like, well what are we doing? This isn't really working. And that's to me how resentment starts. You see it in the NFL, but what eventually happens. Guy Gets bench guy, gets cut in college. Now with Nil, it's harder. You know, it's like what are you going to do? Bench Dylan Raiola because he has a bad three game? Hell no.

[Jackson]

Yeah, I was going to ask you my next question. You talked about Bryce Underwood, long commit of lsu, decommits and goes to Michigan for a guaranteed NILD of 12 + million dollars. What if a guy, if a program signs a guy like this, expectations got to be national championship or money's not worth it for this kid. Like what, what are the expectations for Underwood heading in? And then my second question is, is this a good move for Michigan? Because we even talked last week, like you even said, I have a hard time paying 10, $12 million to a freshman when I could go out and get a transportal guy, five year senior that played a lot of college football for like four or five or even less than that.

[John Mittelkopf]

I would never in a million years. Like the NFL, you have to draft somebody, but the draft slot where you pick them is set right. What Nil has turned into, especially you know, with recruiting a freshman, it's much more like free agency. You get to pick and choose in stories, you know people. And I've talked to some people, like Kirby Smart is not comfortable paying huge amounts of money for high school recruits at quarterback. So why Riola is at Nebraska, not at Georgia? I would. So to answer the second part of your question, I would not be in the business of giving millions of dollars to a high school quarterback. I think that is fucking insane. I mean I watched Arch Manning come in, in that Georgia game. Like you know an underrated story about Arch Manning that no one's going to talk about till next year. Like doesn't have the greatest army. Like he's not. This is not Josh Allen. Now he's. I was close to him when he was warming up. He's big, but he's like a, he's like a baseball pitcher that's six four that throws 92. He's not throwing 100 miles an hour. And I don't think most people realize that. Like he's much more like Payton. So it's like he's going to look differently than I think. Like people expect Caleb Williams with an arm or even Jaden Daniels. That's not really his thing. So listen, I've never besides some clips on Twitter of Bryce Underwood. To me it's national champions. Like that's some out of his control. Like their team has to be good. So it's on the coach and the program but anything less than being like a potential first round pick after, you know, a year or two starting, where it's pretty clear he's one of the best players in the country, is just. Is a complete waste of resources. Because while there's no salary cap like the NFL, these programs don't have unlimited millions. Right? And soon it's going to be capped, right?

[Jackson]

Yeah. They got $50 million in nil for Michigan this year because of Oracle CEO and like the alums, they have and stuff too. But you're right, there's no salary cap right now. I think the NCAA is trying to get that over. But if you got $50 million, then.

[John Mittelkopf]

Hopefully if you have $50 million, it's hard to screw that up. Yeah, right. But Larry Ellison, the Oracle guy, he's not even a Michigan alum, right? He's just dating the chick that went to Michigan.

[Jackson]

I think you're right.

[John Mittelkopf]

I think you're right. I talked to someone that's kind of in the loop or at least, you know, has secondhand heard some things. This isn't. They're cutting him a 12 million dollar check. It's like a year by year, you know, you get a couple million dollars, you hit incentives like you got to stay with the program. But I don't know, man, I. If you had to say, does this work or it doesn't work, I would say it does not work. Right. The other thing is like, and here's what I do respect about Arch, Arch is pretty low key, right? He's been a backup now for a couple years. If it doesn't work, it's not going to derail the program. It would be a big story. If it just turns out Arch is, let's just say, not as good as Quinn yours or something, right? Because people are going to expect a huge upgrade when he starts, which I'm telling you right now, I think people be careful what you like. And I'm not saying he's going to be bad, but people are expecting to see like, Tim Tebow meets Cam Newton meets Caleb Williams, like the greatest college football player of all time. And I'm just not sure that's going to take place. But I would say the same thing with Underwood, right? What are Michigan fans going to expect when this guy starts playing? Because fair or not, and who knows, these numbers get out. It's not like this public information. What if he's only making like $1 million next year? Everyone's like, oh, this $15 million kid, does he. Do you have to start him immediately? Like, if Nebraska didn't have to, would they have just taken a deep breath and started someone else and let Riola come into. Or do they just have no choice now? Maybe, you know, like Nebraska, it's not like Michigan has better options on the roster right now, but I don't know. I. Have you watched this kid play at all on YouTube or anything?

[Jackson]

No, I haven't.

[John Mittelkopf]

No.

[Jackson]

Yeah, I'm like you, I'm not, not a big high school guy. But to your point about Arch Manning, like, I think people get so enamored of him playing this season. He's had some reps started. He's played against ul, Monroe, UTSA and Colorado State is what Arch Manning has. So he hasn't faced any type of pressure. So that like, to me, like, when people are so enamored by Arch Manning making all these throws and stuff, it's like, okay, but how about Nick Scorton from Texas A and M running you down? How are you going to do? And then he played in Georgia and he couldn't do anything against Georgia.

[John Mittelkopf]

No, in fairness, I mean, they got four NFL guys, but I haven't looked at their schedule in 25. I would imagine it's not easy in the SEC where he's going to be the starter. And in fairness, you know, and I respect Sark about this, they usually play someone real in the non conference. Like it's. You're playing real teams, I guess. Overall, I saw some clips of, you know, BK who's getting crushed because of their season, and this is like added negativity on this becomes much worse. If LSU was undefeated, it'd be like, oh, Brian didn't even want him anyway. Right. But when you're having a shitty season, it's like, oh, are we losing it? I would say would not shock me at all if this is not a big deal at all for lsu and I would not be in. I don't think it's crazy. One, I mean, the way you described it and seeing Larry Ellison's name on all these, maybe they just, they didn't have. They couldn't compete with the offer. Which what are you supposed to do if you can't compete with the offer, there's literally nothing you can do. And two, I do you really want. I just think it's a very slippery slope when we're talking this much money with college kids. Like, what the fuck is this guy? And I'm not against him getting paid, but how weird is it for literally everyone else on the team? Like, Michigan's going To have some right tackle who's making a couple hundred grand who might be. What if by the end of the year he's a way better prospect than this other guy and he's like, God, this guy pulls up in a Rolls Royce. We don't even see him. He doesn't hang out with the team. It just gets weird.

[Jackson]

I feel you. All right, let's get back to some football talk. What happened last weekend. I want to talk about this team because we're both in Arizona. Arizona State Sun Devils, one win away from the Big 12 title. Kenny Dillingham in year two, nine and two. The sudden turnaround. What's your overall reaction by this team? Because 16, they were picked 16th before the season in the Big 12, and now they're. They're odds on favorite to win the Big 12.

[John Mittelkopf]

Right now, Kenny Dillingham is my. He's a absolute nut job. I mean, that video of him surrounded by the fans screaming at the referees.

[Jackson]

With his wife behind him, who turned.

[John Mittelkopf]

Around after he started like screaming F bombs at him is everything that I love about, like the type human being I want in my life now. They should never have been in that situation. Like, what was he doing at the end of the game? Like, having his quarterback run around? It was, it was a disaster. If that was an NFL game with what was on the line, like two playoff teams, he would have got eviscerated. I mean, because it, it was. You start doing the math when they still had some time out, you're like, Kenny, how's this going to work? Like, you're still going to have six or seven seconds or it was going to be like 12 or 13 seconds. On fourth down, your quarterback, like, is he going to be able to throw it in the air high enough after running around for five minutes? Even the play before, on third down, like, it was, it could have gotten really bad really fast. I know he was mad, but it was like, Kenny, you were flirting with disaster. There.

[Jackson]

Was like 50 seconds left. 50 seconds left. Cam scouted by one of the best running backs, gets four yards, you're on the three yard line, you're up five. Why not score and be up 12 with 40 seconds left? Yeah, I agree, but what do you make of, like, their turnaround? Because I think in the new age of college football, and let's face it, the younger generation with now with the transfer portal and nil, they're more sensitive to hard coaching. And I feel like a guy like Kenny Dillingham, he coaches hard, but he's also personable and can relate because of his age and I think that kind of translates to their, their play this season.

[John Mittelkopf]

I think he's a cool story because you know, this is a guy that did not play football in college. Like he got hurt a senior year in high school. Tours ACL here in Scottsdale. Like he's from this area. First time I ever heard about him is when I first moved to Scottsdale, probably late 2021 when I was coming here a lot. I played golf with a couple guys at the Phoenician and by, you know, it always comes up and what I'm doing and what they do and we start talking football and this guy tells me he's like, you know, my neighbor. Their son is the offensive coordinator at the University of Oregon. He's a big time up and coming coach. His name's Kenny Dillingham and I didn't know much about him but when Dan Landing first got the job, that was his guy. And what he's done a couple years later at Arizona State, like I don't think most people realize because everyone talks about Deion Sanders constantly and rightfully so. I mean Colorado's and they got, you know, two guys are going to be drafted potentially like 1 and 2. Dillingham not only does not have two guys are going to be drafted 1 and 2. I doubt they even have a guy that's going to sniff, I don't know, the top 50 in the draft. He is one win away from being coach of the year in the Big 12. Like Deion Sanders is not going to be the coach of the year and you could argue like Dillingham would deserve it because like, you know, Deon's had a great turnaround but he does have the two best players in the country potentially. Dillingham has a white running back from Sac State that's his best offensive player who kind of looks pretty sweet. Looks like Mike Allstrap.

[Jackson]

No, he's phenomenal, man. And their transfer portal recruiting class was ranked 66 in the country. So on top of that they kind of call themselves like the, the team of misfits. But overall just an unreal story for Aaron.

[John Mittelkopf]

Were they picked to finish last in the Big 12? I think yeah, they're picked.

[Jackson]

Finished 16th coming off a nine and three and nine season bull ban a bunch of chaos. And then I like him after talking about how these players deserve to get paid because I mean we both live here like Phoenix is such a big city. So much going on, so much pro teams. So I think it's Also cool for him to say, hey, let's start paying nil. You just kind of hope long term that ASU can keep him. Because a guy like this, if he goes to like an Auburn or like a Florida, Not Florida with Napier there now, he's doing well, but, I mean, the sky's the limit for him to be at an SEC school.

[John Mittelkopf]

I think he is one year away. I don't know. I saw Fein Bomb saying that there probably weren't going to be that many jobs opening up this season. So we might be a cycle away. But he wins. He doesn't need to win 10. Next year, he wins eight or nine again at Arizona State. I think he is a lock, like, to be the hot name in college or one of them, you know, at Arizona State. This program has been a joke. Herm Edwards got fired with coach for five years. ESPN's like, we'll rehire you. I was like, oh, you can talk about college football. He knows the landscaper. No, he doesn't even speak about it. It shows you. I mean, I had people telling me that Herm couldn't name half his team. Like, it was an embarrassment when he was here. It really was. And obviously they had a lot of good players over the years, and it never turned into much. And I'd even say most of my, you know, you were born in 99. When I was in college in the mid 2000s and you were like 4 or 5, they had Dennis Erickson and they actually had some, like, you know, they recruited pretty well, but it always felt like something was missing and they could never quite get it going. And it goes back to, like, you know, Jake Plummer. They had a couple moments, you know, the Tillman years with Jake Plummer. But for the most part, this program's kind of, I don't even want to say underachieving, because you live here, you realize no one really cares. But if they could make you care, I do think they could be a big deal. One, it's way easier to get there than it is to go to a NFL game. And it's obviously way cheaper. And you watch that environment, it actually is pretty cool. Even if you live where I live in North Scottsdale, you're 20 minutes away from there. And if they're playing, you know, cool teams, I actually think that they could get a little life now. You know, you start getting. He wins nine games next year, you get, you know, 60, $70 million offer from some SEC school. What's Arizona State going to do? And he just has to leave because you just go, this is sustainable. Then I part of the reason he's banging the table because he knows the only way he can compete is to pay the players. And I remember when I first, I was flipping around channels early on when, when he got hired. And they do training camp in Flagstaff because it's so hot, you know, in Tempe, which makes sense. In August it's 175 degrees. And he said that someone asked like, who was that old man, you know, at training camp standing next to you? And he described the guy that was really their only donor that gave Kenny Dillingham a million dollars. I forget his name, but he's some businessman, you know, around the program. And they, they were fucked because Dillingham, when he first got hired said, if we don't, if I don't raise some money, my entire team's going to transfer. I'm not going to have a, we're not going to have a football team. And he's like, this is the only guy that stepped up. And I, and the guy asked me at the start of training camp, he's like, where do you want me to stand during practice? And Kenny Dillingham said, you can walk to the middle of the huddle. This program doesn't exist without you. And it was like you realize how, like, how can Dan Laning relate to that at Oregon or deboard Alabama? I mean, this is the thing with Nil. It's kind of the haves and the have nots even. This is the thing with Colorado. Like Dion doesn't have Nil issues there. I mean, his kids are on KFC commercials and all state commercials. Like they're living large.

[Jackson]

Yeah. Speaking of Colorado spoke too soon about the Colorado Buffalo's tough loss against another hot team in the country. Like the two hottest teams in the country right now. You texted me this. Florida, Kansas. What a turnaround by Kansas. But kind of talk about what you saw in that game. It sucks. Colorado does not control their destiny. The only way they make the Big 12 title is BYU, Iowa State, Arizona State. Two of those teams have to lose next week. Other than that, they're not going to make the Big 12 title. So.

[John Mittelkopf]

Yeah, I mean, I think Kansas, I've heard a bunch of people say the status the is the first under.500 team to beat three straight ranked teams. They were a preseason potential playoff team, right. And then they lost all the one score games. They didn't just beat Colorado, they kind of beat their ass. My gambling guy, Stucky was on that matchup like two weeks ago, he's like, I'm looking ahead. And that's, that's a game at Kansas. They're going to be a dog against Colorado if they keep winning. Hammer that and I had been betting Colorado. Now I stayed away, but it was clear earlier, like, oh, this is the difference. Like Colorado came back from Texas Tech, but you're like, they can come back this game. There was a physicalness to them. I think the running back went for like 250 yards. I mean, just even Deion said, like, we got our ass kicked. So I, yeah, man, it sucks because I think Colorado, Arizona State would have been pretty sweet. But yeah, I mean, they got. I would say if you could just restart the season right now, Kansas would be a problem. They would be a problem. So I don't even think that loss is that crazy. Like Kansas is just pretty good. It's not your typical like, you know, Auburn beating A and M is a crazy upset. I think going into the game, Kansas was like a two or three point underdog. Now granted it was at home at Arrowhead, but I was just shocked that.

[Jackson]

Colorado could just not stop him once because it felt like Colorado would get within one possession. They need a critical stop. And then Devin Neal, Jalen Daniels, like Kansas probably has like two or three guys that will get drafted in the top three rounds. Like Devin Neal's a stud running back and they held the ball for 40 minutes time possession versus Colorado's 19. Crazy.

[John Mittelkopf]

I do think, you know, I mean that that loss derails probably Colorado's championship host was derails their bowl hopes, which is a problem for Colorado's bowl. Right. If you want Colorado in a bowl that's not a playoff game, Travis Hunter and Shadow Sanders are not going to play. So it makes it a little.

[Jackson]

You think so because of Dion or will he be like, you know what? We want you healthy for the NFL.

[John Mittelkopf]

You think Travis Hunter would play in a meaningless bowl game that's not the playoffs? I don't know. I mean, it never happens. These guys are the two top five picks and I get Dion.

[Jackson]

The Pop Tarts bowl was pretty, pretty special last year, might I say.

[John Mittelkopf]

Well, listen, I'm a sucker for the Bulls, but I also think, you know, if Deon. Deon's going to be fascinating this next month, the thing is, not that many jobs are open and he easily could just stay another year if he doesn't go to the NFL, which maybe he doesn't want to go to the NFL. He's tailor made for College because he got that big recruit that announced on McAfee Show. And everyone makes a big deal. Like these recruits. If Dion next year goes to Auburn or Florida State, like, his start, that left tackle, 77, the number one overall recruit, the new quarterback. Like, everyone realized these guys can just go with him, right? So it's. Everyone hypes up these commitments. Same thing with Underwood. Like, if Underwood doesn't like Michigan and he can just leave. Like, commitments don't mean as much as they did our entire life, where it's like, God, this guy signed with lsu. Do you remember Landon Collins when he picked Alabama over LSU and his mom got really mad at the Under Armour game? Like, that was a big deal because it was like, this guy's just going to Alabama. That's where he's going to play. Like, he's not going to now. If that happened, you'd be like, well, if he doesn't like it at Alabama, he can just transfer to lsu. So before it was like, you kind of. It was like a marriage with not really an out, with a divorce. Because if you did transfer, you had to sit out a year. And who the fuck wants to do that?

[Jackson]

Last question for you. Biggest game of the weekend, Texas Longhorns at Texas A and M. Winner of this game will play Georgia in the SEC Championship. What's your early look ahead when you look at this matchup? A and M coming off a tough loss at Auburn. Texas on the road, probably going to be, if they win this game, their best win of the season, because they don't really have any ranked wins on their schedule. Texas, though, Quinn Ewers is dealing with an ankle injury. So to your point earlier, about Arch Manning, if Arch Manning plays, we're going to know a lot about him. Early in a hostile environment at Kyle Field.

[John Mittelkopf]

I think Texas could easily lose this game. I mean, assuming that A and M just didn't go into the tank, which they shouldn't, because if they win this game and they're in the SEC Championship game, they kind of control their own destiny, right? Because if they win, they automatically get in. We saw that game against LSU at night, was insane. I don't know. I mean, I Arch or not Arch, but Quinn Ewers. Something's been off with that team, honestly, for weeks. Like, you just watch them play, they just feel kind of lifeless, is probably the wrong way to put it. But every game is like 14 to 10. You know, it's like, what is going on? Why? We know how talented this team is. We know how explosive Their offense is, I mean when I watched them against Oklahoma, I'm like, this team is just going to overwhelm team with talent. You know, defensively they're stacked and offensively they have two running backs who can play the wide. Receiver. Number seven is a baller but you just get these guys on quick screens and they can take it 50. Yet you watch them against like Kentucky's and the Arkansas, it's like these. Why is it so hard for them to get a 10 point lead? So I just don't trust Texas. They have been, they've been winning games, which is what matters. But I know you watch them because you're your buddies on the staff. Like don't they just look, something's just off?

[Jackson]

Yeah, I think that game against Michigan, both Ewers and Texas, you looked at him and you're like, okay, this seems a national championship contender. Like viewers was throwing it all over the yard. The play calling from Sarkeesian was aggressive. And then you're right, since he got hurt and came back, they've just been so stagnant and they haven't really gotten the running game going. They did a little bit against Kentucky, but you're going to begin to front seven. And I'm worried about the offensive line of Texas because this Texas A and M front seven, Nick Scorton and what they have is the second or third best in the sec. So if their offensive line struggles, yours doesn't particularly respond well from that. But I think you're right. This Texas team, like the odds right now they're the third best or fourth best to win and it's like plus 500. But you don't even feel like confident in betting them because they've been so up and down. They've.

[John Mittelkopf]

I'd be Argentine if they won the national championship. Stunned, stunned. They could easily win this week. Like it's. I, you know, sound like I have a lot of, you know, A and M. They were down 21 to nothing against Auburn team. So who knows? I mean college football now they've been bad on the road, but I have a hard time seeing Sark host hoist the national championship trophy.

[Jackson]

And they're in the way because they.

[John Mittelkopf]

Brought everyone back on offense and their defense was way better and they were, they were right there toe to toe with Michigan. They should have been in the title game and it feels like in a weird way they're worse. I don't know. Now they lost a couple D tackles obviously who are really good. I mean the dude to the Titans Sweat the big guy and Murphy. But still, to me, it's yours. He just, he just looks kind of as you. What generation are you? Gen Z?

[Jackson]

Yeah, I think Gen Z. Millennial.

[John Mittelkopf]

Yeah, you're definitely not a millennial. You know, 80 to like maybe 99. Maybe you're the last year of Millennial. I would say he's pretty mid, as the kids would say, average. Like, to me he's, if I was a gm, obviously he's a draftable player. He would just be like, I would not draft the player. Like, I'd acknowledge, like, yeah, third, fourth, whoever, if someone wants them. But he's a no draft for my team.

[Jackson]

That's like what's been one of the more not disappointments. But last year you had so much dominant elite quarterback play. It just feels like this year it's been so inconsistent. Like heading into the year, it was Carson Beck, Milroe Ewers, and just up and down the peaks and valleys. Like the two quarterbacks I would trust, right? I mean, the one quarterback I trust right now is maybe Dylan Gabriel in the, in college football right now. And then Cam Ward is the second best, but he throws the ball, interceptions, a little nonchalantness. But from your side of things, like what quarterbacks in college football do you trust?

[John Mittelkopf]

I do believe the nil of putting these guys on a pedestal. These guys making so much more than their entire team. These guys being treated completely different. These guys controlling college football because if they transfer, it's such a big deal. Like they have a bunch of leverage has really derailed the all of my life. These quarterbacks that played in college, even that were stars, you know, from Peyton Manning to Tom Brady through the Leonard era, through Tebow. Tebow's a good example. They still felt like a part of the team. And I think now it's got like the best quarterbacks in the NFL. They feel like part one of the guys. And I do think it's kind of thrown off its axis with the amount of money these guys are being paid. Like, imagine playing for Georgia being like the pass rusher Walker, who's going to be, I don't know, top 10 pick. And knowing that Carson Beck gets like three times as you. If it's the NFL, like, listen, it is what it is. There are pay scales. Like, in what world am I getting paid 500 grand and we're paying this guy a couple million dollars because as you get older, you mature a little bit. At 20 years old, the fuck? No way. I'd be like, what? And I Just. And he's living on his own in a high rise and some massive house. And I'm, you know, just. I just think it's. It's a lot for young people to handle. And I wonder if when you watch these teams play that they don't feel as, like, cohesive. Like, usually in college, even unlike the NFL, like, you'd have the same group of guys together forever, and now it's like guys moving and shaking. This guy's gone. This guy's coming. The quarterback just feels. Not that they haven't always, but I think now knowing how much they're getting has to throw people off on the team. There has to be some resentment. These are human beings and these quarterbacks are struggling. That's the thing. Like, so if you're a wide receiver on Texas, even if you're getting broken off and you're making 700 grand, you know, yours is making millions. Like, even if you, like Arch, you're like, we know I'm paying this guy $5 million. This is crazy.

[Jackson]

Yeah. Nil is just. I don't know, man. I think heading into nil, I thought, specifically for me, I thought NL was just for, like, brand deals and for sponsorships for these kids to make money off their name, image and likeness. And now it's just turning. The tampering.

[John Mittelkopf]

I mean, yeah, that's. It was. How was it not going to be that way? Because, remember, early on, the NCAA was adamant that you had to separate the collective. Well, that's no longer the case. The program's all running. They've just kind of waved the white flag. And these NIL deals, like, Underwood was literally. That's not nil.

[LeVar Arrington]

That's.

[John Mittelkopf]

We just bought them. Which, again, I'm not against. I don't care. But if you're trying to run a football team and win big, like, how did Harbaugh just win with that group? It felt like they were all together. Like, JJ was no different than Blake Corum. That was no different than all the defensive guys that all got drafted. Like, and now it feels like, how is Underwood going to show up on campus the first day and view himself as an equal? How could he?

[Jackson]

Do you think Sharon Moore is going to have to probably change his offense, too? Because if you're Underwood, you're not going in there handing the ball off as much as Orgy did this year. And J.J. mcCarthy did, I guess, did throw the ball a little bit, but you're not going to have a Penn State game out of Bryce Underwood.

[John Mittelkopf]

I think he's going to have to recruit unlike Jim and more like the SEC schools of like getting wide receivers, you know, that's just, that wasn't Jim's deal. Offensive Defensive lineman, running backs, quarterback, could be the game manager. You don't pay 12 million. Now you could argue that's what the money's for. Do what we tell you. But part of, I mean Ohio State, like why they dominate is they have awesome, they have good quarterbacks, but they also have incredible wide receivers. When's the last time Michigan had like the equivalent of that at wide receiver? I mean their guys like wait, Nico Collins went to Michigan. You don't even realize it because the guys in college, they stink or they just don't do much because that's not never how Jim played. I mean look at Jim now. He's like his best receivers lad McConkey. It's like a, it's like a dream come true.

[Jackson]

Giving us white boys a chance at wide receiver. I love to see it, but that's all I got, man. College football, Unbelievable. It's incredible, man.

[John Mittelkopf]

Geez, it is. It's been a, it's been a fun year. So we are, we just got I guess the conference championship games next week. So we'll talk once we have a good idea who's playing who. And obviously they're going to be some serious. For the first time ever, playoff bursts on the line and I think we'll have a pretty good idea, I would say. What do you think? Maybe beside one spot of the at large bids, we'll kind of know.

[Jackson]

Yeah, and I think a team that loses in the conference championship, I think they've said they're not going to get penalized unless it's like obviously an A and M who's already had three losses, they're going to get knocked out. But if Georgia loses to A and M, let's say A beat Texas in the. They lose to them, they're still going to get in.

[John Mittelkopf]

I think it's fair to say whoever gets the SEC championship game, there's a pretty good chance that both the schools get there. What's A and M's record right now?

[Jackson]

A and M's 8 and 3.

[John Mittelkopf]

So you're saying if they lost they'd have a fourth loss. That'd be interesting.

[Jackson]

Well, and A and M, if A and M loss, they probably get knocked out for losses. You would say. But then it's like the extra game. They had a game win against Texas, but then they win, they're in. And then Georgia would get in as well as a three loss team. And then you have Texas as a, as a two loss team. You would have Tennessee in the mix too. So then for the SEC's purpose, if you're Greg Sankey, I think you kind of want A and M to win the sec. So you get four teams in versus three.

[John Mittelkopf]

Yeah, I would be stunned no matter how the gymnastics work, if the SEC is not have four teams representing them. I don't know exactly, it's, it's a little convoluted right now. But I think, you know, the Big Ten ain't getting four teams in the sec getting three. I think that would be. You talk about a stink. Because they'd point right to Indiana and Penn State. Be like, this is a joke. Those teams, Penn State, out of the two of them, they've played two real games and they both lost. At least Penn State could hold their head high. I mean that wasn't like, I mean they lost by a touchdown at home, but still it's like that was a bad loss given they were up whatever, seven, nothing before you could even blink and then got kind of got work from there. But Indiana, I don't think you can let Indiana in and let some of these, you know, SEC teams go play in some random bowls that no one's going to care about anymore beside us gamblers.

[Jackson]

Signetti is going to be pissed if he doesn't get in. He's going to be pissed.

[John Mittelkopf]

Okay, Jackson, enjoy old town Scottsdale and we will talk to you next week.

[Jackson]

Appreciate you. Better lighting, new apartment next week. Appreciate you, John.

[John Mittelkopf]

Adios.

[Jackson]

The volume.

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[John Mittelkopf]

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