← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Justin Herbert & Chargers get HUGE WIN on MNF vs. Jalen Hurts & Eagles
01:25:03
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- [00:00]
John Middlekoff
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- [02:13]
John Middlekoff
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The volume.
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What is going on everybody? John Middlekop three and Out Podcast how are we doing? Probably better than the Eagles who just lose on Monday Night Football to the chargers for the third straight week in a row. They are now 8 and 5. The Chargers are 9 and 4. Somehow win a game with no o line. A quarterback with a broken hand who was throwing the ball all over the place. Million turnovers, ugly game but they come out victorious. And the Eagles five hour flight home at 8 and 5. They got major major problems and are leaking serious oil. Shador Sanders named starting quarterback rest of the year Fernando Mendoza Heisman favorite and Philip Rivers turned 44 years old December 8th. Will have a workout for the Indianapolis Colts on Tuesday morning. Pretty sure I saw Schefter call him a grandpa. Literally. I mean I think one of his maybe his oldest daughter had a had a child. So grandfather playing playing football this week. Hopefully for the cold. I want to see that happen but we'll dive into that as well. We have a mailbag at John Middlekopf at John Middlecoff is the mailbag fire in my DMs on Instagram. Subscribe to the YouTube subscribe to the podcast if you listen on Collins feed. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for supporting the show. Thanks for always listening. And before we dive into some football, I got to tell you about my friends, my partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast. Game Time. Best in the business. You want to go to a game? Do you want to go to an NFL game? Are you an Eagles fan? And do you want to go see your the Birds play? You might only have a couple more games left this season. Well, Game Time's got you covered. They have NFL tickets as low as $100. The price that you see on the ticket is the price you pay at checkout. NBA games, NHL games, concerts, comedy shows, you name it. They have access to everything. I've used every ticketing app known to man. They are by far the best. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase terms. Apply again, create and redeem the code johan for $20 off. Download the game Time app today. Last minute take his lowest price guaranteed.
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I didn't see this coming. Now I I took the the Chargers money line in this game, but it was more just like kind of being counterculture. I Don't even necessarily know if I believed it. And you know, as Herbert's playing with the broken hand, their offensive line, I would say the majority of this game, even as the Eagles were turning it over and, and turning it over and turning it over, I still never really believed that the Eagles were going to lose this game. Sitting on my couch. And when the game ended, I went, you know what? They deserve to lose. Because tonight's a great example of. I mean, Jalen threw four interceptions. Two of them are 100% his fault. One is clearly on A.J. brown, who's. Whenever his commercial runs during Eagles games, it's hard not to laugh. Him talking about, like basically demanding the ball. It feels like he wrote the script for that commercial that is basically he wants broadcast in Jalen's locker. But if you are going to keep saying this, and I've defended him, I mean, he had an awful drop that led to a touch that led to a field goal that tied the game. He had a play in the corner of the end zone that probably ends the game essentially, if he catches it. And he dropped the ball. Now, he did make some plays, but he had two crucial negative plays. But like you watch the Eagles, I was thinking about this, would they fire their offensive coordinator tomorrow? And my answer in my own head was probably not short week. You know, Sirianni just claimed that he had a stronger hand in everything they were doing. And they came out the game and they were just atrocious. And Jalen was. I mean, that's as bad of a first half as you're going to see in probably football history. Not just him, but the overall operation of them. In the Chargers playing offense but just intercepted multiple times. I mean, he literally had a double turnover play. But in the second half, after they run a great play, the fake tush push, you know, pitch to Saquon for a long touchdown. He's running like 25 miles an hour. You went, okay, listen, Saquon shows he still got it. Start giving them the ball. I know your offensive lines kind of in shambles. I know the Chargers are pretty good on defense and their defensive line is stout. But how about this? Once he scores, the Chargers get the ball back. They go three and out and they punt. It is 16 to three. There's like 10 minutes left in the game. How about this? Instead of trying to throw the ball and spread this thing out like we got Joe Burrow playing quarterback, you got a guy that's clearly a little off tonight. You. Your offense in general's a little off. Start running the ball, settle things down. What do they do? They throw the ball. And the worst thing that happened is they get a 19 yard gain the next play. AJ Brown drops it, Chargers get the ball, and then, boom. They score in 16 to 16. And I just think too often there's no identity, rhythm, or any clear idea of what they want to do. It's kind of just. We're trying to prove that our guy can be like some elite passer. I mean, in a game where, I mean, how many. How many touchdowns Charger score tonight? One. They score one touchdown tonight. The. The Hampton pass. Yeah, I mean, they scored one touchdown tonight. Just kicking field goals left and right for Saquon Barkley, only to have 20 carries is pretty insane. And you essentially played five quarters of football. Like, how does Saquon. In a game like this, you see, you look at Jim Harbaugh, Herbert at 10 carries, and a lot of those are called carries. Hampton at 13. I didn't think he looked that good. Vidal had 14. So between the two of those guys, they had 27 carries. They had seven more carries than Saquon Barkley.
- [09:31]
I get that. Jalen, and maybe the franchise. No one's told me this, but have gotten away from, like, he's not a running quarterback. He's just a passing quarterback. Even though a positive attribute for him as a player is his ability to run. Like, Justin Herbert's out there, he has a broken fucking hand. They can't stop his elbow from bleeding. They're using, like, all sorts of different ointments and contraptions on it to stop it. The sideline reporter said that they tried, like, four different things. They couldn't stop it from gushing blood. And they are just calling quarterback keepers, and it's working. Why? Herbert's an elite athlete. Do you know what Herbert also is now? He wasn't tonight, but he's a pocket passer. Like, he's a great thrower of the ball, but it was like, we got to do what we got to do to win. And you're looking at the Eagles, whose offensive coordinator, and clearly Sirianni, is involved. It's like, we got a pass. How Does Jalen have 40 pass attempts in a game like this? Like, to me, you would think, like, if Ben Johnson or Kyle Shanahan or Jim Harbaugh had the Eagles team the night, I. I feel like they would have had. They had 25 rush attempts. I. I feel like they would have had 45. And it's like, okay, you're going to stop us Sometimes. But eventually this guy that we're paying a ton of money that was arguably like the MVP of the league last year. I know he's had, you know, a rough season, but has gotten his mojo back a little bit. We're going to ride him till the wheel. We're going to ride him like Secretariat. But that's just not how the Eagles have really operated, especially with Kevin Patola. And remember a couple years ago, or was it last year, when they were kind of struggling and the offensive line went in and they talked to him, it's like, let's run the ball. And what happened? Saquon went for like 2,000 yards. Now, I understand the offensive line is injuries. You know, Landon gets injured tonight, he comes out, he goes back in lane, Johnson's out. Clearly their center play has dropped off a cliff from where it was last year. Their tush push, hell, they didn't even run it tonight in a spot where Jason Kelsey at halftime was like a little surprise there. It was like third and two. Back in the day. We would have ran two tush pushes, we would have first down. But I, I just think when you don't have an identity, when you have a play caller who was under this much scrutiny.
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When you're trying to prove to the world that you're something you're not, like, you have great wide receivers, like, AJ Had a up and down night, but he is a very, very talented guy. Devonte Smith is clearly a big time talent and Dallas Goddard's a very good tight end. So your passing weapons are top notch for NFL standards. Right? But if your quarterback, especially in a game like tonight, has just. He's been awful all season. I was thinking this today.
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How many teams that lead the league in three and outs in the middle of December often have a winning record? It can't be very often. Typically the teams with the worst offense in the league, or one of them, are the worst teams. Now, I know they technically don't have the worst offense. That's just a category that. But it's pretty bad. I mean, that means your punter is getting a lot of use. And it was on full display tonight. And every time Jalen dropped back, I don't know where you stood, but for me, I thought it wasn't going to be a positive play. Now, he made some really nice throws, the drive throw to Devonte over the middle of the field in overtime, even Troy said, like, I'd like to see him kind of work the middle of the field a little bit more. He throws a Nice deep ball. But in terms of when his rhythm and his timing's a little bit off, it looks awful. And tonight for the majority of the game, it looked really bad. But part of coaching is strategy is doing right by your players and doing right by your players is, is calling plays that are going to be conducive to making them look good or making them productive. And to continue to call passes tonight felt a little frustrating, I thought. And then especially when for the first time, it felt like all year. Saquon, how long was that run? It was 52 yards. It was like, oh, this feels a little, you know, against a high end defense with a defensive coordinator that's going to interview for head coaching jobs, it's like, listen, maybe you don't have another 50 yard run this game, but maybe he's got like a 20 yard run in the bag and they just avoid it. And the moment, here's their problem.
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A good offensive coordinator who is.
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Confident in his ability to call run plays and just overall in his running game will stick with it. They will be unfaced. They will not flinch on first down. When you get stuffed for no yards or one yard and that happened all the time tonight. They would call early down runs and sake. One would get swallowed up and then the next two plays would be passes. It's like, guys, why won't you just have a drive where you call three straight run plays? And I understand the Eagles are a very analytically driven organization and I just, I can't get behind when you have a player that great with a quarterback struggling that much to continue to just try to ride them until the wheels fall off and ultimately lost the game. Doing what? Passing the ball? Now it wasn't, I don't want to put it all on Jalen. It was more of a great play by the defensive back. But.
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How can you be shocked when you lost the game when, when you, when that was a fourth interception, I mean, you had five turnovers. And the other thing, that if you're an Eagle fan, you're sitting here right now, you're 8 and 5. And let's just, let's just state this fact. Neither one of these teams are doing anything in the playoffs. To me, both of these two teams are a one and done operation. Come that second week of January.
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The Eagles got, you know, I would assume that they will take care of business with Washington and the Raiders. So they will end up with 11 wins and the Cowboys can't catch them even if they run the table. So I'm going To give them the benefit of doubt on that. That the Eagles end up winning the NFC east, which to me, I mean, still feels a little bold because the Eagles are liable to drop a game. But when you watch Washington play, I mean they're in complete shambles now. I mean, J.J. mcCarthy just lit them up like a Christmas tree. I mean, the Raiders quit two months ago. The Buffalo game, that's, that's an L. I mean if your offense doesn't play well in that game, there's no way you can beat a team that can score like the Buffalo Bills. But I just think I get back to if I'm a defensive player for the Philadelphia Eagles and that was the good tonight. I mean they were awesome. The linebacker played tonight. I mean Nakobe Dean hit Omari and Hampton so hard in the hole and, and went right through him and caused that fumble on, on, on Justin Herbert. I only imagine Kirby Smart in his office just is going six to midnight with a massive smile. He might play that in the, in the Georgia practice facility just on loop. That, that was Nolan Smith flying around. Jalen Phillips flying around. Jordan Davis making plays. Cooper De Jean, you know, locked up lad McConkey like he was Deion Sanders. He was, he was awesome. They had seven sacks. They were all, it felt like they had 20 sacks. They hit Herbert over and over and over again. Herbert's lucky Jalen Carter didn't play in this game or he literally might have died tonight on the field. I mean he was getting crushed. There would be times when he went down, you like, did he. Is he going to break his hand again? So the Eagles defense was awesome. But when your quarterback and your offense is turning it over, I mean they literally turned it over twice on a play. He threw the pick, which was a terrible pick. Then the, the obviously the defensive lineman is thinking. I don't know if he's thinking pick six or what he's thinking. Definitely doesn't think he's ever going to end up with an interception. Gets the ball knocked out, Jalen gets it and he immediately gets the ball knocked out. And that kind of summed up and was symbolic on Philadelphia. And here's the thing. I've lived in this town. It is an intense place.
- [17:48]
It can thrive on negativity. And that fan base has to hate this team right now because they know there's a lot of talent. Like that's the thing with the passing game. Like I watched these three, these two wide receivers in a tight end dominate and be a huge reason our team won the Super Bowl. I watched this running back who was a local guy, ball out since high school to Penn State. Then we finally get him from the New York Giants and He runs for 2K and he looks like Walter Payton doing it. And now we just consistently go away from it. Even the night when a play worked like we won't go back, it doesn't make any sense. So I'd be a little surprised if we wake up in the morning and the offensive coordinator has been fired, because who else are you going to put in that position? But we have seen teams late in a season, remember a long time ago, John Harbaugh fired, I think it was. It was Cam Cameron late with like three games to go. You know, a couple years ago, the Eagles made a move with their defensive coordinator that. That might have been middle of November with Patricia. So they are not afraid to do bold things. And I would imagine Howie and Jeffrey. You saw the smile on Jeffrey Lurie's face after that tush push goes 50 plus, you know, because he's like, God, we got so many explosive players. Why don't we have more explosive plays? And the answer is the offense is just broken. There's no rah rah Newt Rockne speeches from Nick Sirianni in his Eagles gear with the Italian flag on the side of it. That's going to do a goddamn thing. Your passing game is broken. It doesn't work. Your offense does not work. And I think the frustrating thing is for them, AJ Makes a ton. Devonte makes a ton. Goddard makes a ton. Saquon makes a ton. A ton. Obviously, the quarterback is very highly paid. So it's not like we got a bunch of random guys out there. We're paying premiums for this operation and it's simply not working. And to lose a game tonight to a team that basically has no offensive line, I mean, they literally lose one of their backup offensive linemen early in the game. They cannot block anybody. They barely have a run game. How many yards? The Charger. The chargers ran for 170 yards, but 66 of those were the quarterback. You know, Hampton at 60, has 56 yards. I guess they ran for a little bit better than I thought, but, I mean, I just thought, how do we lose that team? It's essentially a home game five hours away. That's a devastating loss for Philly. And like I said, I don't see them winning a playoff game. There are some shades of two years ago when that team just unraveled and then they got blown out in the first round by Tampa Bay kind of feels like that's going to happen again this year. And like, when I confidently said that they're going to win the division, I do have a hard time seeing the Raiders or the Washington team that I just watched last weekend beat them. But when you're playing this poorly on offense and you know, your inability to get first downs, you're, you know, the turnovers tonight, obviously it's one of the worst games he'll ever play in his entire career. But like, their offense has been operating like this, just without the turnovers. Right. I looked. They averaged 22 points a game. They scored 19 tonight. So, I mean, this is, this is kind of the Eagles operation. And you know, typically they win because they're not just giving you field position like they did tonight with some of these turnovers. But I thought the play calling was atrocious and I just don't really know where you go from here. Like, there's not a fix in the middle of the season. It kind of is what it is. And buckle up because I think some stories are going to come out. This thing's going to get weird. AJ I don't know if he really has a leg to stand on in terms of talking shit after this game. I'm recording this was they're probably, you know, talking to the, to the media in the locker room, but when you have a bad drop and another drop that leads to an interception, you kind of just got to, you know, you know, bite the bullet and be quiet. But man, just, just an embarrassing performance down the stretch by Philly. And they are. There's no really way around it. They're in shambles right now. I mean, you look, the Cowboys game, they're up 21 nothing. They lose 24 to 21. Bears game, they get their ass kicked 24 to 15. Honestly, that doesn't even do it justice. And then the Chargers game tonight. That they are very, very lucky that they get Pete Carroll in the Bad Raider team.
- [22:45]
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John Middlekoff
And the Chargers, I mean I, I have no clue how they're nine and four. I mean I really don't. They can't protect the quarterback. Their quarterback has a broken hand. His passing, you know, I would say his prowess is a little off. I mean he missed a couple throws tonight that he should be able to make in his sleep. He didn't look very good tonight. Passing was very hit or miss. It looked like their passing game in terms of routes like Once upon a time when I lived in in the Bay Area, Greg Roman was Harbaugh's offensive coordinator and and Vic Fangio was defensive coordinator, and the team kind of fell apart in 2014, Trent Balky's daughter famously threw out a tweet that said, fire Greg Roman. Kind of went viral. And you watch Greg Roman tonight. You know, Ravens fans will say this passing game isn't really his thing. It's like neither of these teams schemed easy ones. You know, when you watch Kyle, when you watch McVay, when you watch Ben Johnson, there should just be some easy plays throughout a game like this. Maybe a quick screen, maybe a running back screen. But they're just calling these long drop backs for both these guys. Jalen is struggling to pass Herbert. They can't protect him. Like, what are you guys doing? I don't pretend to know more football than Greg Roman or Kevin Batula when it comes to the board.
- [29:40]
But I could confidently tell you that I've watched enough football to know, are you just. Are you just too stubborn to go, let's just try an easy one here? Or let's just. Let's just try a quick screen. Let's just try a quick wide receiver screen. Everything is down the field, especially with the Chargers. It's like, guys, you cannot protect against this Georgia and Alabama front, it is not going to work. Their linebackers look like Ray Lewis right now. You're going to get this guy killed. He's literally playing with a broken hand. And they just kept calling those plays and he kept getting crushed. I'm telling you, sack seven times, that doesn't feel like what I just witnessed. But they're nine and four. They feel like, I mean, if they split these last two games, they're definitely in the playoffs. I feel like this is why coaching matters. You know, Jim Harbaugh, his teams, there's a toughness, there's an identity. I think they're definitely passing the ball a little bit more this year than they have in years past, but their schedule is pretty hard to end the season. They go to the Chiefs this week, which is not going to be an easy game just because the Chiefs are going to keep trying. Then they go to Dallas, then they get the Texans, who literally might kill Herbert, and then they go to the Broncos, another incredible pass rush. So I'm fascinated to watch the way this shakes out. But props to the Chargers for pulling this game out of their ass, because I thought they were in major, major trouble.
- [31:20]
Speaking of the Chargers.
- [31:23]
Their former quarterback, Philip rivers, he turned 44 years old today at. As Adam Schefter tweeted out, he is a grandfather. Let me repeat, he is a grandfather. So Philip Rivers will conduct a workout tomorrow with the Indianapolis Colts. And on a lighter note, that's just pretty cool. Like that. That just makes me smile like that story is one that's just kind of fun. There is no way on God's green earth that Tom Brady, that Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. I'll just use those three guys for examples. Aren't a little jealous if you don't think like Drew Brees? Definitely. Tom would just like their phone to ring, even if they would say no, to be like, hey, man, any way you could make it to Indy on Tuesday morning?
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We got some quarterback issues. Our. Our backups are both injured. Our starter has a broken leg and a torn Achilles. We got problems. We're 8 and 5, so it's not like we're, you know, 2 and 10 here. Would you work out? Would Tom say no? Would Tom say no? I. I think he might say yes. He might turn them down if they offered him the gig, but I think he would fly there just to get the sweat in. I think it's a pretty cool moment. Obviously, Philip has played there, so he knows Chris Ballard. I think it was two years ago, John lynch said that when Purdy messed up his arm, if they had made the super bowl, they were already planning on calling Philip Rivers.
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So that's fun. I also think it's a little bit of an indictment to the situation in which they found themselves in. We were talking about this offline earlier or last night after we did the show that, you know, Chris Ballard. I've said this forever. I respect people that are aggressive in life. You know, Charlie Munger has this thing. When you have an advantage, bet big. So anyone who puts all their chips in the table when they have an advantage or they think they have an advantage, whether it's in business, in poker, you know, running a football team, I'll tip my hat to you. There are no guarantees in life. There's only a couple, right? Death and taxes. So even when you do have an advantage and you bet big, doesn't mean it can't blow up in your face. And I think Chris Ballard, looking back, I think he has operated recently a little bit more out of desperation than thinking he had an advantage.
- [33:58]
A couple years ago, he takes Anthony Richardson, a guy that had 13 career starts in college and for the most part, wasn't that good and was an enormous risk. Couple years later, clearly blows up in his face, and he essentially has to bench him. But then the guy that saves his what looked like career at the time, Chris Ballard's is a player that for years most people agreed, like NFL analysts, NFL players, NFL coaches, fans, is not a very good player in Daniel Jones. And then he has a stretch of like five or six games where he just looks pretty capable and the team's winning, the running back is going nuts and Chris Powered goes, we got something here. And right before you, you know, the trade deadline ends. He makes, I mean, I don't want to say the biggest, but I mean there, there aren't that many in season trades. For a player that cost you two first rounds, two first round picks, and the guy's making $90 million, that is a massive bet. But the moment he made that bet, I remember my take was he bet that like Daniel Jones is going to be his quarterback for the next several years. He made that bet on SAS Gardner. And Daniel Jones wasn't even under contract for 20, 26. He hadn't even given him a 17 game sample size on his own team. You could argue it was borderline reckless more than it was super aggressive. Like you don't really know what you have in Daniel Jones, right? Let's see this thing play out. Let's see as you play better teams, let's see as you come down the stretch, let's see as you go outside, see how he looks in the playoffs.
- [35:40]
And obviously the worst case scenario happens, he breaks his leg. And clearly I, I don't even know how anyone would argue this. The, you know, the, the mechanisms in which your legs work, the pressure it, it puts on the other leg that a couple weeks later he tears Achilles. So now you have a guy that's not even under contract next year with a broken leg and a torn Achilles in late December, which I'd say that's not Chris Ballard's fault. But you were also betting on that player essentially like he was a Josh Allen. Joe Burrow like an elite player. Because if you're going to make one of those trades, you think you have a team led by a quarterback. You know, Sean McVeigh's done that and he did it with Jared Goff. And even by the end he was out on Jared Goff. But Jared Goff has proven like he's a high end quarterback. If Jared Goff was your quarterback, you would feel comfortable doing something like that. It's a lot of Lions fans have said, why don't we get more aggressive? And you could have made the argument for whoever the guy is, you should be more aggressive when you have a Jared Goff. He's not Joe Montana. Aaron Rodgers, but he's a really good player that you know is going to be your starting quarterback for years. Chris Ballard and the Colts could not have known that about Daniel Jones. He literally wasn't under contract next year and we hadn't seen him play in real meaningful games. What was he? What if you're one and done in the playoffs, would you still do that same deal in the off season? Probably not. So.
- [37:14]
He made a big bet. Like it's not his fault that Sas Gardner or Daniel Jones are injured. But I think if you look at the way that his mind worked to go about that deal, it was a little flawed and they're in complete shambles right now. They're depending on a 44 year old Philip Rivers, which I hope. I mean, the 49ers play them in a couple of weeks. Sign me up to watch Philip Rivers play the 49ers. Sign me up to watch Philip Rivers play some of these games. I'm in. I'm in. I wish if you told me whatever time it was Tuesday morning that the Philip Rivers workout was live, I would 100% tune in. It would get NFL Network, ESPN, it would do good ratings. We'd watch. I used to be the guy my first year in the NFL, guys like Philip Rivers. I would go pick him up at the hotel and then I'd bring him over to, you know, usually get some sort of physical meet with the trainers, give him whatever he needed, water, some breakfast or whatever, and kind of take them out to the workout before the coaches and Howie Roseman came out to the indoor bubble to then watch the guy work out. That's what's going to happen tomorrow. Now. It's going to be a much more serious workout than just your typical Tuesday workout throughout the league of some DBs or wide receivers or offensive linemen. And this guy might be your starting quarterback, which would be insane. He's been coaching high school football even if he has been working out. And clearly I respect Philip, his love of football. I've always said I wished he would have gone into broadcasting because no one like this guy likes football like Jon Gruden likes football. It's like all he thinks about and talks about, it's like his life, it's like his blood. But when you're in this position.
- [39:04]
It shows you they're in major, major trouble, man. Major trouble. And if you had to bet on a horse right now, Houston or Indy, I don't think you could find a soul in America that would bet on this indie situation. So you make Some bets, like I said, you can make big bets when you have good information and it fail, but when you make bets a little out of desperation. And let's be real, I know their record was good, but Daniel Jones was still your quarterback. Everyone was like, oh, I love this deal for the Colts. I remember my reaction was like, this seems crazy. This seems a little reckless.
- [39:45]
Chris Ballard feels like the guy who was just always saving money. Always saving money, always saving money. He's like, I'm gonna buy, like one day I'm gonna buy a big home. And then you're like, chris, where'd all your money go? He's like, bought a Lamborghini, like, what? You did what? And it's like out of left field. And that's what his personnel decisions kind of feel like. And whether it's the daughter influencing him, because she even was quoted like, go for it. Like, are you. Were you really going for it with Daniel Jones and Sauce Gardner? Like, that's not exactly like Steve Young and Deion Sanders. I just think that's.
- [40:25]
It looks awful now. In hindsight, there's no really arguing that.
- [40:32]
A couple other things, D. I almost said Dion Shador has been named starter for the rest of the year. Obviously, I mean, you just. He's made like two or three passes this year in his couple games that Dylan Gabriel couldn't even dream of. I actually think this is really bad for the Browns front office and coaching staff. Like, I actually think this announcement, which of course they were going to announce this. What were they going to do, go back to Dylan Gabriel? They're going to be in position because they're awful and they might lose out.
- [41:09]
To take Fernando Mendoza or take Dante Moore, Take a quarterback really high. In what world, if I was Jimmy Haslam, could I trust your guys evaluations? Because I just saw you guys take a guy in the third round, which isn't nothing for a quarterback. And I think we'd all agree, again, nice kid, not an NFL player. I mean, I bet if you just ask most gms, especially on the good teams, if they were talking about him like an undrafted free agent, you took him in the third round and immediately your fifth round quarterback, like two games in looks like Tom Brady. Compared to him.
- [41:48]
That'S like malpractice. That just can't happen. And listen, you make mistakes in the draft. Everyone does. Ron Wolf, Bill Polian, like hall of fame GMs whiff. Okay, but the Dylan Gabriel thing at the time was like, universally agreed upon. This is insane. Even if they chador didn't even exist. Let's say he didn't even exist as a human being. You just took Dylan Gabriel in the third round. That's like a fireable offense in itself. Like what? You know, the amount of Oregon fans that I know, I remember texting last year because you watch me, like, God, Dylan's kind of slinging around all of them. Be like, he's awesome college player, good in this offense, not an NFL guy. Like every random fans knew that. So I have these two Ivy League guys running my operation. Clearly the head coach doesn't like Shador. I mean, we don't even need to debate that at the moment. But how can I trust you? Because I've seen you with the quarterbacks I don't totally like. Desean's just terrible. I think Bill Walsh could have coached him and it wouldn't have gone well. But it couldn't have gotten much worse when you were coaching him. The one thing we, I think we have to admit is Kevin Stefanski is not very adaptable when it comes to quarterbacks. Right. He kind of is looking for one thing. And clearly what he's looking for, if you give him like Matt Ryan in his prime, yeah, probably work, but that doesn't really exist. Like sometimes you got to adapt your, your offense and your talents to what you're dealing with. And the Dylan Gabriel thing is a clear indictment of your evaluation skills, which are clearly atrocious.
- [43:23]
Okay, last but not least, the Heisman finalists have been announced. I, I have no clue how the Ohio State quarterback's going. I know the Heisman, like the MVP has kind of turned into a quarterback award, but I think we'd all agree that Julian Saying is probably not a top five player on his own team. I mean, from an NFL prospect standpoint, he's not even a top 10 player. But I get it. Quarterback, one of the best teams, but that seems crazy to me. The other three guys are very deserving. You know, Jeremiah Love has a chance to be a star in the NFL. He's been a star in college. He's a badass and he's, he's a legit Heisman candidate. And to me, if they had won a couple of those early games, I think you could easily give it to him. What Diego Pav. Diego Pavia did for Vanderbilt is one of the most incredible resurrections you'll ever see. It's kind of reminds me of Andrew Luck at Stanford. Took over a dog shit academic football program. I mean, they were dead in the water. And by the time he's leaving. They're 10 and 2 and I mean on the precipice and right there to make the playoffs. It truly is these last couple years. If you gave him the Heisman, no one would argue. And if Fernando Mendoza and the Indiana Hoosiers didn't exist, I think he would win it. But when you watch that game on Saturday night with Fernando Mendoza.
- [44:51]
I actually think you learn more about a guy in a spot where that first play, I was thinking about this because I saw him get an interview Today on Pat McAfee, the first play of the game. He said, I've never been hit that hard. And he got his wind knocked out of him. He said he couldn't breathe. And I think most people, he's lying on the ground. You kind of thought, you know, Colt McCoy, Brock Purdy, you lose the quarterback, the game is just irrelevant. You know, Indiana would have no chance to beat Ohio State. Comes back in a couple plays later after his brother comes in. I even thought in the first half, I know his stats weren't that great. I'm like, he's showing some pretty good moxy and toughness here and he's just kind of feeling his way out. He lost his, you know, some might say his best receiver, second best wide receiver. He's just kind of feeling his way and he didn't make any huge mistakes, right? He, he didn't knock their team out of the game. But there were a couple throws where he changed arm angles with a blitzer in his face. Obviously a couple of those deep balls. I thought from an NFL scouting perspective like that was pretty impressive. And I know he's a little goofier, you know, like Kirk Cousins, but if you watch the way his teammates on the deus and where Clatt is given the, the championship trophy and the, you know, game MVP trophy to him, the way they embraced him and got so excited and the smiles up there with his guys, like, this is not one of those Kevin Costner movies when no one shows up at his birthday. Clearly they like him a lot. And you know, a lot of times in sports you're going to like your best player. But it felt pretty genuine to me. And you know what, what he did for them this year to beat Oregon, to beat Ohio State, I would say those two games alone from an NFL perspective like that's if the season ended today and he didn't play again, you would kind of seen enough, like he would have done enough to me to be a top 5ish player. And you know, let's Face it, If you're a top 5ish player quarterback, you're going to go number one overall. And his athleticism, his arm strength, clearly he's a bright guy, he's an optimistic guy. Anyone that saw the story about his mom, that's pretty powerful. I mean, I can't imagine going through that at that age.
- [47:16]
I've just, I was blown away. I was really impressed. Not that I wasn't a fan, but watching him against that team, against that defense and he was telling Pat McAfee today, he's like, it should, it's not even fair. Going up against Matt Patricia, calling with those defensive players and him and his offensive coordinator just found a way. And it also shows you the power of good play calling wide receivers, coming down with the ball. You know, a lot of stuff's out of the, the hands of a quarterback. You know, Jalen threw some bad picks tonight, but he also threw a ball that hit A.J. brown in the hands. But AJ knew that he was about to get hit and he kind of, he just let it go. Well, aj, this isn't, he's not allowed to hit you like Ronnie Lott. This isn't 1996. But AJ's like, I'm not, I'm not getting hit in the ribs, not for this guy. And that's a whole nother conversation. We can get in kind of later. But I think Fernando Mendoza, he's going to win the Heisman. He's going to be the most important football player in the history of Indiana football, obviously, I mean, led them to the number one overall seed winning the Heisman. What happened? Or not Herb street, but Aikman mentioned tonight, like what Signetti and happened at that program over the last two years is nothing short of incredible. It really is. And let's face it.
- [48:38]
They got Mendoza in the transfer portal because obviously his brother's on the team. So they had an in. And which I'm sure happens a lot in transfer portals, right? You have it in with a guy's high school teammate, you have a guy's, you have an in with a guy's, you know, high school coach, you have an in because you know, the guy's dad, like there's obviously sometimes transfer portals. If you're just offering a lot of money, you can get guys blind, but the relationships and connections still matter. But looking back, if people, no way his value on the open market, I mean, Carson beck got like $4 million. People were beating down the drums for some of these guys the last couple of years. And that was just not the case with this guy. And you got to give Signetti a lot of credit for isolating him. You got to give this, you know, Fernando a lot of credit for getting up to speed with these wide receivers. And he went from a guy that, you know, interesting prospect guy to watch to more than likely going to win the Heisman Trophy, going to potentially be the number one overall pick. And if I was him and Cleveland wanted to draft me, I would refuse to go. If I was him and some of these teams that are awful wanted to draft me, I would refuse to go.
- [49:50]
I just wouldn't go like, if, listen, I like John Spytak a lot, but if, like Pete Carroll's still there, like, I'm not going there. I'm not, I'm not doing that, you know, and this, that's a whole conversation we can get into a little later. But I mean, you look at some of these teams are going to need a quarterback high. I'm out, dog. I'm out. You know, even Caleb give. I think some of the things that happened leading up to the draft process were a little egregious, but the one thing they were right on is like Eberfluss, the Bears, and they were right now once they got Ben Johnson going to change his life potentially. So it does matter a lot. But you know, Fernando Mendoza, Kirk Signetti, what an incredible story.
- [50:39]
Rob Gronkowski
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- [51:51]
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- [54:32]
John Middlekoff
Today we're gonna do a little mailbag at John Middelkoff at John Middlekopf it's just my Instagram DMS wide open thought we would, you know, bang out 10 questions and just see what you guys got cooking out there in your football mind. So, again, it's just my Instagram DMS wide open and we do a mailbag like three or four times a week. We'll start with with Trent. My question is this. I know you said Mac Jones is worth a lot to the Niners, but with the unfortunate injury to Daniel Jones, I think I'd be willing to send him there for a 2. The Colts decided to go all in for the sauce trade, so they don't have much capital. But it's hard to go all in and then run Anthony Richardson out there. It's also better for the Niners than sending him to Minnesota or Arizona. Thank you for the content. I do think after this year, I mean, I'm recording this going into the Titan game. I think if they win that game, it's very hard to see them not be a playoff team and Mac Jones will have essentially. I mean, it's crazy. They could still technically be the 1 seed. Seems a little unlikely. I will be a little stunned at this point if they win the division, but they have a home game remaining with with Seattle. They're four and one in the division. They would not be where they are without Mac Jones. I mean, we saw last year they had Kyle Allen as their backup when Purdy got banged up. And it was a nightmare was that two years ago they went to Green Bay. I mean, he like, couldn't even function. And when you have the right backup, you see it with the Texans. The Texans, I think, went 2 and 1 when CJ Stroud was injured. Well, Davis Mills, like a legitimate NFL player. Is he a future starter? I mean, I think someone's going to eventually give him a shot, but he's going to be in the league for a long, long time. And when you have a guy like that, they can keep your head above water. And Mac Jones did more than that. I mean, he played really, really well. So you know Purdy now, like, he had a major, major shoulder injury or elbow injury. Now, he didn't really miss any time beside that NFC Championship game because it was the last game of the season, you know, for the Niners. And a couple years ago he missed that. Trying to think what injuries he's had. He obviously had the turf toe. This year he definitely missed another game somewhere along the line with Kyle Allen, but which would have been last year. I don't even remember the injury. My point is, like, I just think you have to be a Little uneasy with his durability. Where you are pretty aggressive with the backup quarterback. It's not like you're going to pay $15 million, but you really want to feel good about that guy. Partly too, that if he misses a month, you know, over the next couple years, obviously he's going to be the starting quarterback on the big contract. You have a coach that you can win, you know, games with a random quarterback, but it has to be the right random quarterback. And I'll give Kyle credit, you know, back to back, I guess they skipped a year. But Sam Darnold and Mac Jones, two of the last three years, backup quarterback, pretty freaking good. So I trust them. I would just be hesitant. Second round pick, that's pretty valuable. And I think if you're the Colts and you trade a second round pick for Mac Jones, one, he's pretty cheap, but two, then you're just all in on the roster that you have. And I don't know, I think it's pretty risky. They're, they're, they're in a weird spot right now. I feel. I've always thought Chris Bower did a pretty good job and this year he got a little out of character. I mean, let's face it, he's made a couple out of character moves and it turned out like the owner forced Anthony Richardson. Like you need to draft a quarterback, doesn't really feel like their type guy and clearly that's been a disaster. And obviously the sauce move, I thought that was insane. Clearly sauce. Maybe I undervalue him, is a really good player but like if I'm trading two ones for a corner, like he better be like Darrell Revis, you know, and I just, I don't know, I wasn't on board with that move. And that has nothing to do with him being injured. I just thought like.
- [58:44]
Big fan. So to me, I, I would think about it, but again, you're gonna have to blow me away. Like what? Purdy's gonna have to play the rest of the season, not get injured. I, I still like, you know, I think about Purdy's injury history. Let me bring up how many games he's played over the course of the last four years. There definitely was a stretch I'm trying to remember. So I guess he just missed the one game and, or he missed two games in 24 and obviously he's missed a bunch this year.
- [59:20]
So.
- [59:22]
And I think he gets a little bit of a pass in the sense of, and you can say it's a freaky injury, but it was A major injury, the elbow injury. Just things that make me nervous. But I get maybe more nervous about injuries and than most. Big fan of the show. I'm a Washington State Cougar fan. As you know, Blank has hit the fan in the darkest way imaginable. Washington State isn't even relevant anymore. And with the way college football has changed, do you think in order for a dynamic change and more publicity, we need to acquire a big name head coach? If so, who are the possible candidates?
- [59:59]
Let me say a couple things. One, I'm not being a dick at all, but no big name head coach who is, you know, has options, is coming to Washington State. And I want to preface everything I'm about to say by this. You guys got screwed. You guys really tried. I would say the same for Oregon State. Football mattered in the community. You took football seriously. There were a lot of programs with the PAC12 disbanding like you guys were a way better program most of my adult life than Colorado, than the University of Arizona, than ucla, than what Cal had become probably till right now with, with hiring Tosh. But you guys got screwed and you got left behind. The problem is, is there is no catching up. You're done. I think the best case scenario for you because at the end of the day, and I put this out this, this weekend on the old X app when your coach went to.
- [61:00]
You know, your coach came from South Dakota State, obviously, you know, this was there a year and then just went to Iowa State to replace Matt Campbell and one and done guy. And how do you blame him? I would rather be at Iowa State than Washington State. You guys don't have a conference like, well, the Pack, it doesn't exist anymore. It is essentially the Mountain West. So what you guys are now is a non Power 4 team. And I think for the health of the sport, they need to build a non power four playoff, whether that's 1812 teams or whatever and just separate the two conferences. And I think best case scenario for you, you try to dominate that like South Dakota State, like North Dakota State, like Montana do a D1, double A and like Ohio State, Bama, Georgia, right, Texas, Oregon do it the highest level and you kind of find that sweet spot because you're never, you're never getting invited back to the dance. Which sucks because you did it the right way. You gave a shit when you hired Mike Leach. It was a game changer. But you had been relevant. When I was in like junior high, I mean, Ryan Leaf was the number one overall pick in the draft. I Guess number two, Peyton went one. But you guys were in the Rose Bowl. You've had some excellent NFL players over the years. When I was at Fresno State in 08 and 09, like we recruited against you, you guys were recruiting good players. It sucks, but things change, and I think you just have to adapt the best you can. It happens to us all right? I'm very fortunate in a business. Once I kind of went all in on the radio audio space. You know, I kind of just fell into podcasting, and obviously I benefited dramatically from getting into it in, like, 2016, 2017. I know so many people who've been fired in radio the last couple years, and they're so far behind, they got no shot. And I feel lucky that way. And the game changed really, really quick overnight. And when it changes, you know, sometimes things are out of your control and you're not going to be in the same position that you once were. If you want to stay doing what you were doing. And you guys want to, you know, it's not like you guys want to go play D1 Double A football, but you're never playing Power 4 football again. It's just. It's just the shitty reality. So I think you're better off trying to hire, like, an alumni, someone like that who will be pretty passionate about the program than trying to hire, like, sweet up and coming coaches.
- [63:23]
Speaking of the Power 4, Virginia Tech went from lower than 120th in national recruiting rating rankings to 23rd on signing day. No one's ever argued the man can recruit. I mean, he. Listen, a huge part of college football is talent acquisition, like the coaching element of it. If you have way more talent than the teams you're playing. Like, how many games does Kirby truly have to out coach someone of his 15 games a year? Less than five right now. He has an advantage. He's an elite coach. Same thing with Saban. Same thing. You know you saw Signetti, right? Google Indiana scores this year. They were destroying people. Even Ryan Day in Ohio State. They were killing people you couldn't score on. Now, Indiana didn't really score either, but, like, that was a game that they're, like, losing in the second half. And they were talking about the broadcast like they're not used to being in this position. It's why all underdogs go, hey, when you're playing the big bad wolf, get them in a position where their backs against the wall and see how they respond. And what did Ryan Day do? And listen, you know, it's funny. I. I stand by, like, My overall take, clearly. Listen, I got nothing personal against the guy. I'm sure he's a nice guy. I think he's a tad bit overrated. I mean, I really do. And his true colors came out in that moment at the end of the game when he kicked the field goal. Like, he works at the Ohio State now. With Saban gone, is by far the number one program in the country in terms of resources, in terms of backing, in terms of recruiting. It has it all. Like, it is a efficient monster. Listen, as someone that I respect the shit out of their operation, but he has unlimited funds to buy any coach. He has unlimited funds to buy any player. He is a good recruiter. Like, he tries hard, so I respect it. You know, no different than Sark or Lane or Lanning. Like, these guys try. They're not like, Chip going, like, I'll work for you, but I never want to recruit. Well, part of the business is recruiting. But like, tell me this, Ohio State fans.
- [65:31]
I think if you, if you ask an Oregon fan, you go, yeah, Dan Landing's got like Chip Kelly vibes. This is badass. We love this guy. If you ask Georgia fans, you go, this is the greatest coach we've ever had. Right? Obviously, Bama fans, you know, with, with Saban, you know anyone that's had Urban, I mean, you guys had Urban Meyer. Like, deep down, you kind of know Ryan Day. Ain't that he's good. But like, I could take 15 or 20 coaches and give them Ohio State's operation and I think they would kick ass and take names. Like, I think they would be really, really good. But if you had an all time coach, which you did in Urban Meyer or like George does with Kirby, I think you'd be unbeatable. And the simple fact is you're not unbeatable right now. Indiana just beat you. And I thought they out coached you and they kind of out toughed you. They kind of did. And there's no disputing. I heard Danny Cannell say this. He was, he's like, I was on the field and I picked Indiana and I wanted to change my pick halfway through warm ups, because you just look at their roster and you go, it's an NFL team. I do believe this. Like, Fox would trade countless NFL teams, definitely the NFC south to keep Ohio State's rights to play all their games on Fox throughout the season. They are a behemoth. I say they're an NFL team and I think the answer is like, Ryan Day one, the national championship, okay, that's. That's great. Got out, coached against Michigan in a game that, let's face it, just means I don't, I can't quite quantify this. I'm not part of an Ohio State or Michigan man. Clearly means a lot to me. It's. When I was a kid, I thought Yankees, Red Sox was like the cream of the crop rivalry. Duke, North Carolina had its moments. I think Ohio State and Michigan right now is clearly the number one rivalry in sports, in collegiate sports for sure. And you could argue, you know, pro sports as well. So I just think that's a stain on his resume. And that game, kicking that field goal, it's like, bro, you're the defending champ. And my point is, like, it just kind of felt like who he was, like he's. There's a little insecurity and scaredness to the guy where there's just not with Signetti. Tell me this, Ohio State fans, if you could choose right now, for the next five years, who would you rather have running your program, Kurt Signetti or Ryan Day? Just, just asking.
- [67:47]
My question. Is this with Tom Brady on the up and up and J.J. watts, great hair, who would you say are the top three NFL analysts? Personally, Joe Buck's face makes my screen.
- [68:00]
Makes my screen, makes my Monday evening worse. Little. Little.
- [68:07]
Screw up there on your, on your grammar. No big deal. Maria, that we were talking about the other day about like, what school is going to look like for her son in 10, 20 years. And I was like, you know what's crazy? When I went. And I'm kidding, I can't. My grammar is terrible. I can't spell or. Right. But it's like when I went to, when I went to high school, Internet was really kind of taken off, but it was dial up. You know, Google definitely didn't really exist until I was in college. And even then it's nowhere near what it was now.
- [68:38]
It was, you know, I guess it could help you do some homework, type stuff, but not really. Like, why would I listen in class now? Once I learned how to, you know, read basic writing, just the basics, it's like, hey, we're going to teach you calculus. Well, give me the equation. I'll just throw it into Chat GPT or here, you need to learn this. Why just type it into Google. I think there are elements and you can say, listen, obviously there's a creativity element of the brain. But we were talking like, well, you got to learn to write. Do you. I mean, how many people that are listening to this right now that for their job or you know, whatever needed descriptions. Like you can use this thing called the Internet and Google and Chad GPT and all this stuff. I just think the world's changed so dramatically so fast. I just can't even imagine. Like I thought honestly, like I remember sitting in class and it always bored me my entire life. How could you even justify paying attention now in a lot of these class. Now I get it if you're going to be a doctor or an engineer, but the majority of us are going to be like general business type people, right? Sales. I just don't know if you're learning that much in high school and college anymore. I mean if you ever were Sorry for my TED Talk. I've always liked Joe Buck. I mean I kind of think he gets a bad rap.
- [70:03]
Listen, I, I mainly watch have the sound on in the big games which I was, I was telling my crew the other day when you watch like 10 games at once, the one thing that sucks is whatever game, you know you can't have four audios on, right? So you're just listening to one audio and you get a lot of nuggets right. Like you know, Tony Romo says like the offensive coordinator was mentioned this to us. You know, this guy's not as good and you just kind of can pick up on a 3, 4, 5 things throughout the game of like oh, that's kind of what the coaching staffs feeling. They're telling Tony and Jim that but you kind of miss out on all the like I, I don't know what they said on the Bucks Saints game. And I, I think there's an element to some of the bad, the worst games just I, I think have a little less. I don't know. They, they, they feel lesser than so I, I'm a sucker for it. Now listen, Al Michaels is an absolute legend. He is Marv Albert. His last year at tnt, it's rough. Him and Herb street have had just a weird rapport their whole time. But I think Buck and Aikman are the cream of the crop. I just enjoy like I know people say he's goofy or whatever, but sometimes like on a Sunday night, I've been watching football for 48 hours straight. Like I kind of like just an upbeat, optimistic individual. I mean technically I can, I guess not technically in reality I can lean kind of negative and pessimistic. So sometimes getting a little positivity in my life, I'm all for I, I'm with you. J.J. doesn't just have good J.J. wat's been pretty good like J.J. watts, pretty, just easy listen. I think he's got a chance to just be pretty good, pretty comfortable in his own skin. For a guy that's really rich and big name, he, he's pretty good. You know, Brady's definitely gotten way better, partly because he was so shitty at the beginning. But there is just an element to Tom. You know, like the two biggest entertainers of my life were Madden and Gruden. And there was kind of this every man quality to both, right? There was this every man quality to both guys that you could like run into them at a burger joint and have a conversation and they would talk to you about football.
- [72:10]
John. No one was like John Madden, even though John Madden was making $8 million a year to call NFL games in 1993. Like, John Madden owns half of the East Bay. Like, John Madden's family trust is probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Jon Gruden, like seven years ago, signed a 10 year, 100 million. These guys are just multimillionaires, but they carry themselves. Yeah, it's kind of like their vibe, you know. Tom, you see him in the yesterday with Burkhart at Green Bay. Now granted, I would have lasted five minutes in that weather. I could not have lasted. It looked absolutely miserable. But he's wearing, I mean, clearly thousands upon thousands of dollars of like some leather trench coat thing that like John Gotti would have wore. And it's like, Tom, you know, there's, it's weird because he loves football, so anyone that loves football, he could have a conversation with. But it does feel like this, I don't know, almost like a Jordan type quality. Michael's a little smoother at it and like, yeah, I don't fucking want to talk to you. Where Tom kind of can like straddle the fence about it. I, I don't know. I, I think he's still got a little ways to go, you know. Romo, they're fine.
- [73:30]
Rob Gronkowski
This is Rob Gronkowski from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. For the second season in a row, I partner with T Mobile's Friday night 5G lights, powering up hometown football across America. This year, T mobile invested over $4 million in prizes to help schools take their Friday nights to the next level. The votes are in. And now it's time to crown our $1 million grand prize winner. Congratulations to Derrick's high school and Derrick's Arkansas, home of the outlaws and your 2020 5T mobile Friday night 5G lights champion. The Outlaws and their community rallied to help them score a game changing home field upgrade, a Gronk Fitness weight room makeover, an epic 2026 tailgate party and a VIP trip to the SEC Championship game. To every school that competed, posted and rallied your communities. Thank you and to T Mobile for making it all possible. This season may be over, but the story isn't. Stay tuned for season three in 2026. Congratulations again to Derek's High School Outlaws.
- [74:42]
Business Software Sponsor Announcer
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- [75:44]
Tech/Product Sponsor Announcer
Powered by Snapdragon X Elite processors are made to go the distance with blazing fast performance, next level efficiency and multi day battery life. Snapdragon processors are built to tackle it all, from highlight reel editing to intense player research so you can be at the top of your game wherever the day takes you. Learn more@snapdragon.com laptops snapdragon the heart of your PC battery life varies significantly based on device settings, usage and other factors.
- [76:16]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. The holiday season can be exhausting with all the parties and the end of year celebrations, but don't forget to take care of yourself by stocking up on your favorite nutritional products. Products now through December 30th. Shop in store and online and save on items like Cliff Snack Bars, Luna Bars, Boost Nutritional Energy Drinks, Premier Protein Shakes, Z Bar Variety Packs, Open Nature Powder and Body Fortress Protein powder offers end December 30th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [76:47]
Commercial Announcer
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- [77:22]
John Middlekoff
I think every football fan has the experience of being on a couch and watching clock management that feels objectively misguided or downright horrendous. I've certainly heard you express bewilderment over many teams execution on this front. Curious your thoughts on this seems always occur Curious your thoughts on how it always seems to occur that it should. But I'm most interested in your thoughts about the use of timeouts. To me, any use of a second timeout in a close game has to be game defining importance all the time. You'll see a coach or quarterback call a timeout in the third quarter or early fourth because they're about to get a delay a game. The notion that a timeout is equal in value to 5 yards, there's a ton of game left to play is 100% incorrect. Even if I'm down three at the opponent's 25 and it's a third and three, I'm 100% taking the five yards I can still kick and converting it. Totally agree.
- [78:23]
I, I, I'm not bothered by first half timeouts. If you got to use a timeout in the first quarter in a big spot that you feel like whatever. I, I do think the second half it is extremely important to not waste any of them in the third quarter. I, I, I, I have a hard time. I'm sure there is one seeing a scenario where on offense you use a timeout because of delay game and it happens constantly and this is not college football. So you find yourself whether you're the Saints or the Titans or you're the Rams or the Bills, a lot of these games are pretty close in the second half and when these teams have wasted it because like you said, you know, on the 40 yard line it was, you know, second and four and the play clock was about to hit zero and they it's like what are we doing? So I don't know why I think these guys know that. But I've always defended the clock management aspect of when you're on your couch eating M&M's, having a coffee in your Ugg slippers, you know, with With a sweatshirt on and a blanket over you with your dog laying on you. It's easy to go like that. Fucking idiot. What. What a. What a dumb clock. What is he doing? We've all done it. I, I'm as, I'm as guilty as anybody. There is no way. That is the feeling on the sideline when you have a headset on and if you're the play caller and you got guys talking to you, you got your coach, you got trainer telling you this guy can't come back in. There's a lot going on. You know, the Bears, for example, clearly they were a little loose yesterday with their clock management at the end of the game. Now Ben's a first year head coach, Caleb's in his first year playing real NFL football after, I don't even count last year. You're on the road, it's freezing cold. Like that was a teachable moment, right, that you get up and it felt like they had a minute 30. Then all of a sudden you look and it's 30 seconds on the clock. You're like, listen, I'm no, you know, clock manager here, but I'm not sure that this is right. I'm looking for the scenario because if you go to the play by play of the Bears game, the last drive by the Bears, he was.
- [80:42]
So they ran a play on second and four to get them to third and one. They ran the play on second and four at 117.
- [80:52]
And they didn't run another play till 35 seconds.
- [80:57]
I just think that there's a level of urgency, you know, Ben super focused on the play call because it's a big play call.
- [81:07]
Yeah, I think it's just kind of complicated, which I defend them a little bit that way.
- [81:15]
My question is, how do you think Aaron and Mike Tomlin's legacy will be affected if this year The Steelers go under.500 and with Tomlinson as the coach. Well, I think yesterday's win was pretty big. I still think that they. I remember I looked at their schedule yesterday. They got the Dolphins coming up on Miami on Monday night. That game's in Pittsburgh. Then they go to Detroit, then they go to Cleveland, and then they get the Ravens again.
- [81:47]
They're seven and six. So they got to win through two more games to get the nine. I think they're winning two more games. I think they're going to go about 500. But let's just say they go one and three and they go eight, nine. I think it impacts Aaron Rodgers legacy. Zero. I mean, literally zero and the only Tomlin thing it has is like, that's kind of his defining attribute right now. It's like, yeah, he won a Super Bowl a long, long time ago, hasn't won a playoff game in a decade. Like, think how much changes in your life in a decade. If you're listening to this right now and you're 30 years old, think about 10 years ago, when you were 20, how much shit has happened in those 10 years, right? For me, like, I'm 40, 41, technically, how much stuff happened in my 30s. And I just think that, you know, Tomlin, what he really hangs his hat on is teams never go under.500. They're always competitive, they're always in the wild card mix. They're usually at minimum going 10 and 7. I mean, the last couple years are 10 and 17. One year they went like 9, 7 and 1, but like several games above.500. So I think this year there's definitely been some cracks, which, you know, part of its roster building, which, I mean, only people inside those buildings know truly how much juice he has. A lot of people on the Internet tell me he has a lot, which I'm sure he has a lot, but.
- [83:05]
I don't know. Their team is just kind of poorly built. Why are your thoughts on Cal hiring Tosh lupoi in retaining JKs? Are we back?
- [83:15]
This is a good example that Cal was in the spot of being a powerful version of, like, what I talked about with Washington State, where it felt like they were kind of getting left behind, even though they kind of got a seat at the table. Who knows how long the ACC is going to survive when it comes to football. Notre Dame just attacked it. We've known that Miami, Clemson, Florida State, like, they've wanted out. So if that ever crumbles, does Cal get kind of left in Stanford kind of looking? They would definitely try to jump to the Big Ten, and I would imagine the Big Ten would have some interest. But the unique part about this hire is Tosh played for Jeff Tedford. Tosh played a Cal. So his passion for the program, because I don't know if a normal guy in his spot, someone that had worked at Alabama, now is at Oregon. Like, every guy's just taking the cow job. So, you know, Ron Rivera is their gm. My buddies on the scouting trail said he's. He's very involved. There was a second once they fired Wilcox, and I. I watched some cow games. I mean, I grew up going to Memorial Stadium with my dad and walking up that hill is. There were some videos Going viral of Ron with the headset. And honestly, I'll give Ron credit because it crossed my mind. Like, I just think, why wouldn't Ron just sign himself to like a four year, $20 million deal and just become the head coach, hire some recruiters and think that he could just out tough and out physical. He's playing the ACC thinking he win 89 games. I thought he was going to do that. So I give him a lot of credit for maybe he kind of likes this life of being able to kind of have a little more time with his wife, but also still be very involved in football. And you know, the most important, most impressive thing is they hire the guy, their quarterback. For those of you that don't fall Cal football, which I do not blame you would have potentially been if he would have said, I'm going to the transfer portal, the number one quarterback in the transfer portal. I mean, he would have been definitely a top two or three guy. He would have had, you know, all the teams in the sec, any sweet Big Ten team, all these teams that need a quarterback, would have been all over him. I mean big time. And he was such a big. He went to Oregon, he was going to go to Cal. Then he decided to go to Oregon. He got there early, went there for spring ball, realized like, well, I'm not going to be the starter. I'm going to be the backup to Dante Moore. And he's not necessarily going to go anywhere for a couple of years. So he like wanted to play because he knows he's good enough. And he just transferred to Cali, immediately, became their starter as an 18 year old and he was by far their, you know, highlight of the season, which they're a bowl team. But I, I'm excited because the one thing Tosh, and this goes back to when he worked for Jeff Tedford, you know, Cal, if you remove sports, kind of carries itself like an Ivy League school. They're a public university and they will tell you they're the number one public university in the world, but they think of themselves like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Penn, something like that. And Jeff Tedford went there and by a couple years into his tenure had Aaron Rodgers, had Marshawn lynch and Deshaun Jackson. Not sure how many classes those two attended, but they were kicking the shit out of people. And the only team they really couldn't beat was the Trojans. But he had them competing to be number one. And Tosh was a part of that as a young assistant coach. And by the end, like he's Brown Bagging Keenan Allen, getting him to come there like Keenan Allen was supposed to go to Alabama out of high school from North Carolina. Now part of it was Cal did a package deal with Keenan and his brother. His brother was this left handed quarterback. And Saban, you know the currency in college football used to be a scholarship, right? I got 85 scholarships. If I'm at Alabama or I'm at Cal, if I give you one, you typically went where you just went to the better program who gave you the better scholarship. And then obviously in the SEC they'd give you a little brown bag of 20 grand cash or whatever. But now you have this enormous tons of money changing parts. The scholarship is completely irrelevant. I wonder if some of these recruiting visits, scholarship even comes up. But if you do go to Cal, you know, academically, like not everyone's going to be desean Jackson or Marshawn lynch or Aaron Rodgers. I mean a lot of you guys that are just going to be couple play for a couple of years and go into the workforce. Well, if you work in business, the high school business, go work at Goldman Sachs, go make $350,000 as a 23 year old immediately in the workforce. So I, I think he's got a lot of things going for him. He knows that area. I, I'm, I'm really, really excited. I, I think they could be in the next couple years. And I watched some of his press conference. He kind of talks like he's been around Saban in Landing, like we're in the talent acquisition business. Like he gets it, like he's, he's seen the cream of the crop, recruiting the best of the best. I mean he was, he worked for Saban in his heyday and you know, Tosh was on a staff with like.
- [88:18]
Kirby Smart, Lane Kiffin, Dan Lanning, Mario Crystal Ball. Tosh basically worked for Nick Saban from 2014 to 2018. Two time national champ.
- [88:32]
Lane Mario.
- [88:35]
Sark, Briga Group. Kirby.
- [88:44]
Rob Gronkowski
This is Rob Gronkowski from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and jules. For the second season in a row I partnered with T Mobile's Friday night 5G lights powering up hometown football across America. This year T mobile invested over $4 million in prizes to help schools to take their Friday nights to the next level. The votes are in. And now it's time to crown our $1 million grand prize winner. Congratulations to Derrick's high school and Derrick's Arkansas, home of the outlaws and your 2020 5T mobile Friday night 5G lights champion. The Outlaws and their community rallied to help them score a game changing home field upgrade, a Gronk Fitness weight room makeover and an epic 2026 tailgate party and a VIP trip to the SEC Championship game. To every school that competed posted and rallied your communities, thank you and to T Mobile for making it all possible. This season may be over, but the story isn't. Stay tuned for season three in 2026. Congratulations again to Derek's High School Outlaws.
- [89:56]
Business Software Sponsor Announcer
Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other, one for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's O D O O.com PCs.
- [90:58]
Tech/Product Sponsor Announcer
Powered by Snapdragon X Elite processors are made to go the distance with blazing fast performance, next level efficiency and multi day battery life. Snapdragon processors are built to tackle it all, from highlight reel editing to intense player research so you can be at the top of your game wherever the day takes you. Learn more@snapdragon.com laptops snapdragon the heart of your PC battery life varies significantly based on device settings, usage and other factors.
- [91:30]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. The holiday season can be exhausting with all the parties and the end of year celebrations, but don't forget to take care of yourself by stocking up on your favorite nutritional products. Now through December 30th. Shop in store and online and save on items like Cliff Snack Bars, Luna Bars, Boost Nutritional Energy Drinks, Premier Protein Shakes, Z Bar Variety Packs, Open Nature Powder and Body Fortress Protein powder offers end December 30th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
- [92:01]
Commercial Announcer
This message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and more@applecard.com.
- [92:36]
John Middlekoff
Been watching the NFL my whole life and I noticed certain officials tend to be more trigger happy than others. Does knowing which crew you have officiating the game affect how a team will coach 100%. There's not a team in the NFL that doesn't go over the assignment the week of the game with the players, with their coaching staff, with their analytical department. It's, it's definitely a talked about area for sure. College and pro. I was thinking anything stopping owners from giving free money. Die hard Eagles fan. And I was just thinking hypothetically, what if the Eagles trade for Max Crosby in the off season but they want to keep Jalen Phillips? Is there anything other than scouts honor keeping Lurie from saying hey, we'll sign you for three years, 30 million but I'll dump another 30 million in your account on the side if you're caught. You would, I mean something in a in infraction like that there would be hell to pay because.
- [93:35]
Obviously, listen, it's a very competitive industry. People are cutting corners like welcome to the private sector. Honestly, to be successful in the private sector I think you got to have a little, little renegade to you. You know, if you're following all the rules in everything in life, you're probably going to get passed by. There's a difference of like breaking laws and like if you're just always going to color in the lines, good luck to you because life's going to be awfully tough. So it happens in all of our industries, definitely in football, but something in the example you gave there would be a death penalty type situation that if they found out you were paying someone millions of dollars to stay on your team on the side.
- [94:17]
I don't know if they kick you out of the league but it would be, it'd be really bad. So I think it's more than scout's honor. I think it's part of it is in a weird way these guys are all business partners and win or lose, like they're all getting super rich together arm in arm. You know they can the days of like Al Davis and everyone at each other's Throats. It's kind of few and far between. You know, the occasional Dan Snyder, where it took till the end for some of his, I guess, people in his corner to turn on him. So I. Yeah, I. I just may. Call me naive. I. I think again, there's a difference of one thing that definitely happens. You sign with us, we will funnel you sponsorships. Right on. When I was in with the 49, or not with the 49ers, but in the Bay Area, around the 49ers, you would see their main sponsors. The. Well, who's their number one car? Like, who's the. The. The official car of the 49ers? Toyota. Who has a big Toyota brand deal? Brock Purdy. They have this eyeglass company, Zenny. Well, who are their number one guy? George Kittle. So I think that's a huge element. It's big in the NBA. And again, there's difference of, like, where Kawhi Leonard got in trouble. It was completely fake. It was a gigantic fugazi. I mean, literally, they just pretended like, hey, if you want to fly around your private jet, we'll just pretend to plant trees and then everything will be good and you can tweet about climate change. It was all fucking fake. Where that, to me is like, what is going on? Most of these are at least like, hey, I'm Joe Lakob. I'm in Silicon Valley. You want to come play for the Warriors? We will funnel you into businesses to invest in. I'll hook you up with all these tycoons and you can get in on the next Google potentially. And that, to me, is a huge element that I think is happening a lot. The 49ers definitely take advantage of that. Is Mike McDaniel the most hated coach in the NFL? I hear nothing but criticism for the guy, and none of it is ever even about football. Like, he's not an elite coach or anything, but he's far better than a lot of guys. He's made the playoffs twice, and this season he's now won four straight. If you compare him to Stefanski, he's accomplished 10 times more. But the narrative around Mike is he's a failure because he's scrawny, whereas Stefanski is some Ivy league whiz kid.
- [96:31]
McDaniel went to Yale, I think, even though Mike literally also went to an Ivy League. Okay, you knew that too. I just don't get it. Are people not cognizant of how superficial they're being when viewing McDaniel? Listen, I think we just judge him because He's a goofy looking dude. He's a goofy, nerdy looking guy. And there's an element of Stefanski that just, I don't know, I guess looks smart. I've been saying this forever. No team gets a bigger pass than the Browns. Now that you door is playing, people are really watching them and they're like, what the fuck's going on? So one of you guys DM me the other day. It's like in Coward said this guy, they got a good roster. It's like, well, we all hear this all the time. And they just, every time you look up, they're three and 12. It's like, what is. And I, maybe I've been saying this on the podcast. I definitely told other people this. You hear this universally and I got nothing against the guy. He will get a job immediately if Stefanski's fired. He will, like, that's. You just hire this guy. Like, like he just, you know, like, James Franklin was just fired. It's like, yeah, that's. James Franklin had been winning. This guy has not been two time coach of the year. How many coach of the years does, like, Belichick has? Who cares? Like, no one's, like, no one actually cares about coach of the Year. To me, it's the fakest award of them all because we think you're going to be shitty. And then you win like 11 games. That's literally how Stefanski's wanted a couple times. You knew never wins coach of the year over the last like seven years. Like Andy Reid. Right. I mean, Kyle Shanahan ever win coach of the Year? No. Who's going to win it this year? Well, Ben Johnson. And granted Ben Johnson's been good, but why is he going to win it? Or variable? Because we thought they were going to suck.
- [98:01]
Rob Gronkowski
Right?
- [98:02]
John Middlekoff
It's like no one's giving it. Matt LaFleur could win 13 games. Like, well, yeah, he's coaching the Packers. Well, yeah, he's doing a good job. So I'm with you, McDaniel. I don't know people.
- [98:14]
I don't know. His pants are bad. I mean, the, the, the, the joggers that are way up tight or way up top, like toward the knee, and I, yeah, I got a couple joggers in the, in the closet. So I'm not acting like I, I would never put them on, but actually a couple rollback golf ones that aren't, aren't bad. Okay. What up, John? Big fan. I listen every day. I do have to give you some credit for mentioning it a Couple weeks back. But how is no one talking about Tyler Schuck? I listen to you and Colin this morning and y' all are talking about Shador and JJ and it makes no sense to me. Those are bad teams. There is an argument Chuck is the best looking rookie quarterback outside of Drake May from the past two classes. It's a little disrespectful. And no other teams had him graded that high. You always say you have to give credit where credit still true. We're also running a business here and the most listened to podcast in my career happened on a Friday night. And it was when Shador fell from the second and third round to the third day of the draft. I got a call from someone at iHeart. They're like, did you find some magic sauce? I'm like, no. This guy named Shador Sanders, he's just fallen in the draft and it's like the biggest story in America right now. And J.J. mcCarthy, like, I don't know why. We have a huge Midwest contingent. The Vikings have a lot of fans and that story really resonates with people. Like I'm not like what I. We talk about things. One, I talk about things that excite me. But there's a reason that certain franchises rarely get talked about that I would go out of business if I did it consistently. Now I'm not afraid to talk about Tyler Schuck, just like I'm not afraid to talk about the Saints. But at 3 and 10, talking about a quarterback that most fans. And again, I'm not playing. I'm trying to play plant or throw as wide of a net as possible out here. Could point Tyler Schuck out of the lineup. He went to prom not with, but in the same limousine with their chicks as Brock Purdy. Brock Purdy's been the league. This is year four. So I think it's kind of a unique story. He's really old. His path was crazy. And your team is just out of sight, out of mind. And it's no disrespect like the Browns Titan game would not matter to a soul beside fans of those two teams. The moment Shador starts for that, you know, in that game, people are paying attention. And J.J. mcCarthy is a massive story. National championship at Michigan. Drafted extremely high.
- [100:49]
Proceeded or you know, Sam Darnold obviously leaves. He comes in and I just think that.
- [101:01]
We know what we're doing. So I I to think that, you know, Tyler Schuck looking at his box score here because every time I look up he had some big runs. I will give him that. I looked, he had a couple really nice runs. He did go 1320 for 144 yards and an interception. No touchdowns. And again, I'm not, I am box score scouting a little bit. I had the game on, but I'd be lying if I was super dialed in. The Bucks have kind of lost me. I mean, they're playing so bad. They're awful. Watch.
- [101:31]
The SEC is really, really big and it drives enormous television ratings. Alabama from a rating standpoint goes toe to toe with everyone in the country, basically, except like Ohio State, which is I think the biggest rating. You know, draw with Notre Dame and Texas, but the, you know, Georgia, lsu, I mean these teams are cash cows. I've been saying this for a while and this is no shade at the Saints. I'm Doug Nussmeier, Kellen's right hand guy. I love that guy. I'm rooting for them to get it turned around. But like I would say the most irrelevant division right now in terms of what, what I do is the NFC South.
- [102:14]
It really is. So unless it's something Tampa related, I think with like Baker and there's a little inside baseball. But listen, that's what we do here and so we're not. No one has anything against Tyler Schuck, but the Saints are just very, very low on the list of making sure the lights are still on, you know, so again, props to him. A couple rushing touchdowns were nice, but 24, 20, you guys beaten Tampa, which is a nice win. You guys scored 17 points in the second half. Something's off with Baker. 122 yards passing, only 14 completions, averaging 4, 4 yards of pass. How many yards did a Mech only at 215. They ran the ball pretty well too. They had 180 yards rushing. But I'll be honest, I wasn't super locked in on that bad boy.
- [103:03]
The Volume.
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