← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Ken Rideout's story, Will Lamar crash out, Could McDonald call offensive plays
01:09:37
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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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The volume. What is going on, everybody? John Middelkoff 3Now podcast. Hopefully everyone is doing well out there in the real world. Enjoying yourself? Because I know we are. Today we have a big show. We. I met this guy at the Super Bowl. His name is Ken Rideout. He's got an incredible story. He's from Boston. He sounds like he's buddies with Whitey Bulger. He worked in finance like a wolf of Wall street, became like a drug addict, turned his life around, now is the top ultra marathoner in the world, according to the Wall Street Journal. He's just, he's a fascinating individual. He's, he's my type entertainment. So he came on the show. We'll talk, we'll just talk his story because it's, it's pretty interesting. It's really interesting. He's got a book coming out. I met him at the super bowl party. And we will also do a little mailbag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlekopf is the Instagram. So fire in those dms. After we talk to Ken and the game. This will probably be the last podcast for the rest of this week and all of next week as I, as I try to be a little bit of a family man for a little while and decompress after the long season. And then we will be back the week of the 23rd in Indianapolis for a couple days, podcast and see who we can talk to, rub some elbows with some people. And that will be the game plan. So I will also, I'll be on the herd with Coward this Friday the 13th and Monday the 16th. So might need to get a tan before I go on television. I'm pretty pale right now, but it might be a little too little too late. But that's the game plan. So we'll be chilling for the next 10 days, then we'll hit it hard leading into the combine, free agency and the rest of the off season. But other than that, you guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out. We are on Netflix every single day. Make sure you subscribe to the alerts on Netflix. Appreciate all you guys that have watched and checked it out and given us some feedback. So we'll just keep chopping wood. But let's dive into the interview okay here. A couple days after the super bowl with a man from Boston who I met at the Volume super bowl party, Jamie Horowitz introduced us and I said, this is my type guy, Ken Rideout, who Some consider the fastest marathon runner over 50, just written in the Wall Street Journal. He has a book coming out the other side of hard here in about a month on March 10th. You can buy it wherever, you know, you purchase your books. I'm more of an audiobook guy, so I will fire that thing down on my iPhone. Big patriot guy. Ken, have you recovered from the. The super bowl loss?
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That was a tough one, man. I was happy that they got there, considering they only had four wins last year and. But definitely mixed emotions. I can handle the loss, the humil. In fact, the humiliating way in which they lost definitely made it a bit more painful, for sure. But good run for the boys.
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B
So I didn't know that much about your story, and Jamie introduced us and reading and watching some interviews with you. You got a fascinating story. I mean, you know this. You've talked about it, I guess. Just start when you were young. You're now into ultra marathoners or ultra marathons. Having a lot of success. We'll dive in. You ran in Mongolia. I definitely want to hear about that. But you were a young guy in Boston who kind of took off in the finance world, I guess, kind of. Let's start from your youth, kind of a rough childhood to, you know, playing some college football. Right. To go into New York City to all of a sudden making a lot of money as a young guy just kind of took off fast for you.
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A
Yeah, very fast. But, you know, it was like the longest overnight success in history. Yeah. I grew up in Somerville, like, very much a blue collar, like, hardscrabble town. Like, for context, when I got out of high school, my first job was as a guard in prison outside of Boston. And my. My stepfather had already been an inmate there, and my younger brother would eventually be a prisoner there multiple times. And after I played, I played ice hockey and football in college. And then when I got out of school and moved to New York, was working in a pharmaceutical sales job and was training at a local gym playing men's league pickup hockey. And I met a guy who was at the. At the Chelsea Pierce Men's Hockey League, who was a trader, a commodities trader named Mike Peltier, who unfortunately died in 9 11. And he was a commodities trader. And he's like, hey, we need a junior trader. And I had seen all these kids at the gym where I was working out who were like, making a shitload of money. Sorry, can we swear on this show?
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B
Heck, yeah.
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A
Okay. And I'll try to keep it to a minimum so my kids can watch And I was like, man, these guys seem like idiots, but they're all making tons of money and I'm like, broke as a joke. So anyway, when this guy said they had a role, they were looking for a junior trader on this trading desk. I was like, hell yeah, I'll do that. And long story short, I started there in about, you know, two months in, they were basically hazing me. If anyone's worked on a trading desk, it's very much like being on a sports team. And the older guys, the experienced guys are like, hazing the junior guys. And one day I just had had enough of it and I slapped a guy across his face, which it was crazy to me that they were even trying to haze and bully me. I, like, box for the New York Athletic Club. At the time, I practically had a black eye for like three straight years. I worked in a prison. No one would have described me as a pushover. I mean, I didn't think of myself as a tough guy, but I certainly wasn't someone getting picked on regularly. And yeah, this guy was. Was hazy, like, just giving me tons of. And eventually I just had enough and slapped the shit out of him. And they, needless to say, they fired me on the spot. But when some of the senior traders at Enron heard that story, they called me up. And this was a Thursday. By Monday, I had a job making twice as I was making 40 grand. By Monday, I had a job making 80 grand on a competing trading desk, which I didn't even know we had competitors at the time. That's how naive I was. And then very quickly, I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars. I got hired to run commodity sales and trading desk in London for Canor Fitzgerald. Moved to London right before I moved. I had an ankle surgery, got some Percocet, and for the next 10 years I was basically high on opioids 247 and just weren't living as a functioning drug addict and behaving like an absolute loser. But in my heart I was like, man, I'm not a loser, but I'm behaving like a loser. So then eventually I. I got married. My wife and I adopted a daughter from Ethiopia. And right before we went to get her, I was like, I have got to. I gotta get sober once. And. And it's a long story, it's all outlined in the book. But I got sober hellacious, like two weeks of my life. And then started running and started doing triathlons. Initially, I did the Ironman in Hawaii three times. And I started Running and showing up to running races and like, everything else, like, with the finance stuff, I was looking around at the other people running and just being like, dude, I can smash everyone here if I just train hard. And I did. I started training super hard. I moved to LA in 2016, was living in the Pacific Palisades, which is where I met Horowitz, who just happens to be from Boston as well. And I was training up in the mountains. There I met Reggie Miller. He was always right. We were the only two people out in the mountain, in the trails. Every morning I'd see him, he'd be riding his mountain bike, I'd be running. We'd be side by side going up these steep trails, and we just started talking, struck up a friendship. He wrote a beautiful blurb for my book. Then I won the Malibu Half Marathon a couple years in a row. And then in 2020, I did the Pasadena Half Marathon, and like 8, 000 people finished in the Rose bowl on KTLA Live on TV. And I won. I beat everyone. 9, 000 people. So I'm running into the Rose bowl and I'm like, literally, like, holy, I'm gonna win this race. And after that, things, I started to get some attention. And then a few months later, the, the. The day before I turned 50, I won the Myrtle Beach Marathon. The whole thing. I ran to 30 there. And, yeah, and then I won four of the six World Marathon Majors. I won Boston, New York, Chicago, and Tokyo. And I got second in Berlin and London and Chicago. In 23 was the world championships for age group. So I beat everyone in the world over 50.
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B
I want to circle back to some of the beginning, but to me, Reggie Miller, he looks the exact same physically as he did when he was playing MJ in the Eastern Conference final. I mean, he hasn't gained a pound. His skin, he looks fantastic. I think I googled it because he was on TV calling like the NBA finals or the conference finals a couple years ago. I'm like, he's got to be the best looking, like 57 year old in like, the history of America. He looks fantastic for his age.
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Let me tell you, that guy is a cardio freak. He's like winning races on his mountain bikes. And if you know anything about racing a mountain bike, it's super, super technical. But you also need to be incredibly fit. He would be out there grinding. Like, I thought I was like, people were looking at me like I was crazy. And when I saw him one day, I'm like, hey, what's up, champ. And he had seen me a million times, and we just hit it off. And I asked him to write. I mean, I felt like an ass ask. I hate asking people for anything. But asking him to write a quote, he was like, oh, be my honor. He wrote the most incredible quote from my book.
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B
It was.
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He's just. He's. Not only is he, like, look like he's 17 years old, he's the nicest guy I've ever met. Just couldn't be kinder.
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B
I. I've never been. I've actually never been to Boston, but I. I lived in Philly for a couple years, and I think there's some parallels of there. There's like a toughness and a character to you guys that grow up there. And. And I think we were talking about this before you hopped on. There are so many successful people, definitely in what we do, you know, of. There's, like, this toughness that you guys have growing up in that area. But there's also, like, an eq, like a feel for people that, you know, when you talk for some. I'm from California. You sound like a guy that I hear in the movies, right?
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A
That.
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B
That accent, it's very. It's very distinct. It's like, you know, Whitey Bulger meets with Wahlberg. It's just. But there's, like, you can throw you guys in a room, and you could hang with, like, you worked at a prison, but you could also hang with these guys that are CEOs, multimillionaires. Is that just something developed where you kind of especially. Maybe it's different now. I'm sure that area has changed, but when you grow up, the 70s, the 80s, it's just a. It's a tough area, and it just. What do you think is about the general area in Boston that develops so many people that go on to be successful in the real world?
- [11:09]
A
You know, that's a good question. I think of my own story more as a survival story than someone who's thriving. I was just, like, trying to figure shit out. It's like, I think a lot of times you meet. I had a boxing match for the New York Athletic Club one time, and I was on one side of the curtain warming up, and the other guy was on the other side with his coach. And he's like, don't let that guy's accent intimidate you. And I'm thinking to myself, my accent is intimidating. Someone like, I have. I was oblivious to that. Someone would think that that sounds. That I sounded tough because in my heart, I'm like. Like everyone else, I'm scared of everything. I'm scared before a race. I just, like, I tell my kids, one of my sons playing baseball, and every time they throw the pitch, he's like. He's like 10. He steps out of the batter's box. And I go, buddy, every time the guy throws the ball, you stepping out of the box, it looks like you're scared. And he goes, I am. And I was like, oh, okay, everyone's scared, dude. You just have to learn how to do this shit while you're scared. And I think that if I've done anything, well, it's learned to do things scared. But about your question from Boston. I just feel like when you're in like a kind of economically depressed area, and I didn't know any friends that were rich or that were doing really well that didn't constantly think about money, that the parents weren't always like, you know, thinking about money and trying to make money. People are so insecure. They're constant, like, razzing and bullshit. And you just learn to get a thick skin quick because if you don't, you won't survive. Sometimes even with my own kids, I'll be teasing them, and my wife's like, I think you're a little too hard on them. And it's because everyone else they're around is so soft that I've got to, like, adjust my own behavior to kind of match the people that I'm around now. But it's like, after you condition like that, and especially working in a prison, man, there is not a single nice thing happen in prison. Every single person in there is trying to beat you 24, 7, and you're only there eight hours a day. So you learn very quickly to like, read people or you're gonna have a bad experience. And so, I don't know. I don't think of myself as having any special skills, but it. But I certainly have a higher emotional intelligence than intellect.
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B
You worked in prison when you were in college?
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A
I started there the few days after I graduated high school. I probably looked like I was 13 years old.
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B
Were you? You know, you talk about your son stepping out of the batter. I did the same. I was never great at baseball, but, I mean, did you go in there a little nervous? I mean, was that one of those situations?
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Did you go with a head on.
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B
A swivel on a daily basis? Was it like a maximum security prison?
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Yeah, there were sections of it that were maximum security and others that were low. It's like any prison. There's different facilities within the institution. You know, I was probably a little bit nervous, but when you grow up with these people, like, I knew half the people there, like, the first day I walked in, this giant guy from the projects right now where I live, Barry Hill. It's like a big Irish gangster, like, a killer was in there for smashing someone in the head with the claw end of a hammer. He comes running over, grabs me, like, in a fireman's carry, like a child, and is running around with me in the ball field. I'm in, like, in a prison guard uniform, and I'm like, brother, put me down. The only thing I cared about. I'm like, dude, the other guards are looking at me. They're gonna, like. I don't want them to think, like, I'm this tight with the inmates. Come to find out, like, Mickey Ward, the fighter, was a guard with me there, and his mother, Dick Yund, was an inmate. Like, all of the guards were, like, one. One mistake away from being inmates themselves. This wasn't like, you know, the highest form of law enforcement. Matter of fact, it might have been the lowest.
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When you grew up in Boston, kind of the mob, probably 80s, 90s, was kind of coming to an end still. Probably when you were young, still Ripp. And it kind of came to an end.
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A
It was very much in full effect. Like, Howie Windsor lives right near me. That where the whole winter hill gang hung out at, at the garage on Marshall street. My cousin lived right across the street from there. They were like. They were like my siblings. Like, we spent all the time, but they were. Those guys were always around, but it was like, you know, it's like any mob movie you see, like, from a kid's perspective, they were just cool older guys that were there. They, like, you know, give you a shit all the time. They were like. We were oblivious to, like, the. The violence that was going on until we got older, obviously. And then. And then it was starting to calm down when I was, like, in my 20s and then started, like, when I was. Start. When I went to college, I did coke for the first time. And then for, like, five years, my friends, my Boston friends and I were just on a tear of, like, go out, drink, do coke. When I moved to New York, as a matter of fact, I said to that kid Peltier, who got me the first job, we were out one night. I said, dude, I've been here for, like, a few months. I've not seen one single fight in a bar, not One, if I went out with my friends in Boston, it would be a very rare occasion that there wasn't a fight either with. Either with the guys I was with. I wasn't, like, a huge troublemaker, but some of the people I was with were. Half of them ended up being inmates in that same prison. But it was just an aggressive. Like, an aggressive place. And I'm just glad my kids aren't living in that environment. I was in a. I went to this, like, kind of inpatient mental health place a few years ago just because I wanted to, like, be happier than I was. And when I was telling the woman, she was like, oh, childhood trauma. I'm like, I don't have any trauma. I just think I should be happier. And I start telling her, like, my childhood. And she was like, well, what would you say if any of your children had to go through any of this? And I was like, are you crazy? They could never survive this. And she was like, what the. What do you think made you special? You just said you, like, just as scared as everyone else. And I was like, I don't know. It kind of put things into perspective for me that, like, yeah, maybe it was a little effed up, but when you're going through it, you don't know any different.
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No, you don't. You just grow up the way you grow up. You don't control anything. And, you know, I was. I just had a baby, so I. When I'm doing. When I'm. When I'm taking some duties and she's sleeping, you just have TV on in the background. I threw on Wolf of Wall Street a couple weeks ago, and I've thought about this for a long time. How can people. And you got into finance right in the 90s, and it feels like the drug. The drug culture in. In Wall street was just raging. How can you function in work? And is it. As you know, that movie, obviously, Hollywood Eyes, is it. But it's fair to say, listening to your story and watching some of your talks about it, like, it was. You weren't alone in what was going on. How do you function? Like, how do you go to meetings? How do you land deals? I mean, how was everyone doing that?
- [17:25]
A
Wolf of Wall street was like, they were covering retail clients. They were calling, like, mom and Pops.
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B
We were.
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A
I was like, an institutional trader. So we were trading with, like, banks and initially, like, Enron and Big Utilities. I never told anyone I was doing drugs, so in my mind, I was. They. People probably just thought that I was a little crazy. And aggressive. But to me, you know, I take the, I would take like Percocets, Vicodin, Fentanyl and just feel good. I mean I'm sure people are probably like, this guy's a fucking weird. But to me, I was like on cloud nine. I was just happy as can be. And then of course I would get high in the morning, take them again at lunchtime and then after dinner, you know, like 30, 40 percocets a day. And man, it was New York. It was less obvious when I went to London. I mean I was in bad shape, but the people there were even worse. There were people going to the bathroom, come out, cocaine all over their nose. And guys were. Because I ran the whole commodities trading desk. There was like 30 or 40 guys that work for me. They come back to the desk and I'm like, like dude, did you even look in the mirror? You have coke all over your face. And they were like, oh, sorry, sorry boss. I come in in the morning, there'd be someone sleeping under the trading desk. It was, it was complete chaos. Madness.
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B
Is it just the culture of finance, I mean it just kind of went hand in hand is safe to say.
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A
Especially I think a lot of the same shit goes on today. It's just like maybe I think that there's such like a health and wellness kick too that you get one extreme or the other. You get the guys that are like overweight doing coke and then you get the like hardcore like fitness finance bros that are super into health and wellness. You know, you probably get much more of those high performers at like Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, like the big banks. And then you've got those like kind of shitty 2nd 3rd tier Yankee banks like where I worked at Credit Agriculture. Not as bad but like some of those third tier banks you never heard of, you get some real fucking lunatics in there all whacked out.
- [19:30]
B
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- [21:16]
A
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- [21:48]
B
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- [23:23]
A
Yes.
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B
When was the moment? Like, was there a specific day? Was there a specific, you know, drug use point?
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A
So. So I always stayed super. Like, I always exercised and was fit so I never looked a mess. And I mean. And when I moved to London, I was making millions of dollars. I had a brand new Porsche straight from the Porsche factory. I had a whole entire, like three story house in that. Right in the middle of London, in Kensington, with a garage. Like, it was on her, like, crazy unheard of. The top floor, the whole floor was glass. You could look down into the. Into the living room from the bedroom upstairs, it was.
- [23:58]
B
And you're in your 30s at.
- [23:59]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean, dude, less than a year before, I was making 40 grand and couldn't even afford to pay all my student loans and everything else. And now I have, like, money to burn. I was flying on the Concorde back and forth from London to New York. 10,000 each way. This is in like in 2000. And then, and then I met my wife. And for a long time I was just hit everything from her. And she had never done drugs in her life. Grew up on a farm in New Jersey, went to Vanderbilt. Was like just perfect family. Everything was like. She was totally square, had no idea. And then eventually she kind of figured out. But when we were going to adopt, when we got matched with my daughter in Ethiopia, we were gonna go travel to Ethiopia. We had like a month to get ready. I went to an outpatient detox where they give you, like, medicine to help with the withdrawal. So I would have, like Ritalin to stay awake, Xanax to go to sleep. And I mean, I was sick, like, real sick. And I woke up to go to the bathroom one night, like three nights into it. And by the way, once I got to seven days clean without the drugs, they could give me this shot called Vivid Vivitrol, which would block the opioid receptors in your brain so you couldn't get high for a month even if you tried. So in my mind I'm like, if I can just get to seven days, I don't even have to tell her why I'm so sick. And I'll be clear and Then I can go to Ethiopia, and then I'll have some time, some sobriety, and I'll be good. Like three or four days into it. I got up to take a leak, blacked out in the bathroom, fell down, smashed my head, woke up. My wife is like, what the f. What is going on? And I. This is like a big pivotal moment in the book too, because I'm, like, looking at her and then we lived in, like, a stunning, like, brand new glass high rise on the, like, 45th floor in Manhattan. And I'm laying on the floor just so disgusted with myself because, like I said, I never thought of myself as such a piece of shit loser, but that's what I was. And I'm looking at her and I'm looking at the balcony, and I'm like, I'm either gonna tell her the truth or jump off that balcony. And I just. I just, like, came clean with everything. I'm like, I'm a fucking junkie. I'm whacked out. I'm in withdrawals, and it was horrible. Sorry. It gets me. It gets me choked up talking about it because like I said, I don't think of myself as a piece of shit, but I was behaving like a weakling and a pussy, and it just came to a head. And that was the last time that I, like, really got that whacked out. And.
- [26:21]
B
But being honest with her, probably the best thing you ever did, then you were able to pivot into.
- [26:25]
A
Yeah. And then once I told her the truth, and then instead of, like, being completely enraged with me, she just helped me through it and, like, you know, became like the police. I put her in a terrible position. And it's been terrible because then, like, a few months ago, she was diagnosed with cancer. So it's been. It's been a roller coaster, man, for sure.
- [26:46]
B
How's she doing?
- [26:47]
A
Always been stuck. Stuck with me, no matter how much crazy I've done.
- [26:51]
B
How's she doing?
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A
Yeah, she's great. She's cancer free now and ready for a reconstructive surgery. I told her, silver lining, you'll end up with nice new boobs and no cancer. You'll come out of it like a cancer survivor with a new set of cans. Everybody wins.
- [27:07]
B
Yeah. My mom beat breast cancer in the early 2000s, so, I mean, these doctors now are pretty amazing with that stuff.
- [27:13]
A
It's been. It's been unbelievable. I mean, from the minute they diagnosed her until they did the surgery, it was like. It felt like a whirlwind. It was like, you know when something, like, you never think something like that's going to happen to you?
- [27:23]
B
We.
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A
We would always say to each other, like, can you. I'm so. We're so lucky the kids are healthy. We're lucky we live in Nashville with everything that we always talked about is happening. And then she gets cancer. And it was like, you know, when you hear someone gets cancer and they're 50, I'm like, oh, my God, it's a death sentence. We're screwed. And we have four little kids, and the doctors were amazing. We went in for the first appointment. They're like, all right, here's what we're going to do. You're going to do this appointment, then go for surgery, then they're going to do this, then you'll get the reconstruction. It'll be great. And that's exactly what happened.
- [27:55]
B
Wow. Damn. That's. That's. Well, I'm glad she's doing well. When you. Before you pivoted to the ultramarathon, did you have to remove yourself from finance, like, remove yourself from the culture to. To get sober, or were you able to kind of do both?
- [28:11]
A
Dude, when I. When I was going through that week of withdrawals, that's when I started, like, this tradition of running or this habit of running 10 miles every day. It was part penance for putting myself in this position in part, like, I want to expedite this process of getting the drugs out of my system. I'm just going to run. And, you know, there would be days where I'm like, I'm going to drop dead. I feel so terrible, but I'm going to keep running. I'm like, you know, it was, like, 30 degrees outside, but I'm, like, drenched in sweat in shorts and a T shirt because my body is just in complete chaos after 10 years of abuse. But once I got. Once I got. And I just kept working. I never told anyone. I mean, I'm sure the people that worked with me are hearing, like, these stories now, and, like, I knew something was wrong with that guy. But. Yeah. And then. And then from there I started. I was running so much that my. My knees were bothering me. I got a bike as soon as I rode the bike a few times. Like, within a couple years, I was racing on a team with Lance Armstrong, training with the best athletes in the world and just crushing, like, the cycling scene. A guy from. A guy from my office was like, talking about, you know, cyclists, like, runners and anything else. Like, they can. Like, golfers, whatever. They can be such Dorks. And they're like, oh, I'm the best cyclist. I'm so good at this. I showed up one time with a sleeveless T shirt and shorts. I had a bike for, like, two weeks and kicked the out of all of them. And I'm like, wow, I'm either really good at cycling or you guys suck. How can I be like. You guys have, like, the full, like, clown suit on, and I have shorts and a T shirt. Eventually, I would be completely dressed like a clown, too, in, like, full Lycra.
- [29:40]
B
But. So when did you realize that the ultramarathon, like, this isn't just going to be what I do every day. I'm going to be competitive in this. How did that kind of get going?
- [29:52]
A
Oh, good question. So I was doing the triathlon. I did a few triathlons, you know, got trounced a couple times and was like, like, how are these guys beating me? Like, these guys shouldn't be able to beat me in anything. So I started really training hard, and I started to win, like, small races all around Manhattan. And then I was like, well, what's the best triathlon in the world? Like, everything else that I've done, I'm like, well, if I've got this car, what's the best car? So I did the same thing. And someone was like, oh, the Ironman in Hawaii. But you got to really train for that. It's not easy to qualify. And I was like, for some people, maybe. And I just. I did a couple races, qualified at the Ironman in New York City, did that. And then when we. We had our fourth kid, we have three biological boys. When we moved to LA in 2000, in January of 16, my wife was like, enough with this triathlon bullshit. Because I was riding my bike for like, eight hours on a Saturday, running for three hours on Sunday. It was way too much, and it was super selfish. And so I just transitioned to running. And that's really when I started running, like, very quickly started to get a lot of attention from brands in particular. So I had, like, a partnership for years with Reebok. They didn't have any runners except me and, like, Shaq, where there are two athletes. And it was just crazy. It was like it almost happened overnight. And quickly I transitioned out of finance. I was working for an asset manager in L. A raising a bunch of money. And once I raised some money for this asset manager, I realized I can do this on my own. And I did as an independent placement agent. I raised money for a ton of different Venture funds, private equity funds, as well as private brands like private placements into investments into health and wellness startups. And through that, in the running, I started to get these brand partnerships via social media that I didn't even know was a thing. And I had done so many of them, and I had worked closely with the brands on the finance side that they started asking me who else they should be working with. And just quickly, I started representing some of the best and biggest scientists, doctors, and thought leaders in the health and wellness space. So, like Andrew Huberman, if you know the human. Yeah, yeah, that's one of my really good friends. We've done some things, things together. I raised money for this guy, David Sinclair in Boston. He wrote a book called Lifespan, one of the top longevity scientists in the world. So we have a whole roster of people at Ride Outdoor Group that I manage all their brand deals. Me and the people that I work, work with. And this whole running thing, it, like, took on a life of its own. And it was like, you know, it's like when people tell you, like, do something that you love and you'll never work a day in your life again. That's the truth. If you can figure out a way to get paid to do the things that you love doing. Not that I love running every day. It can be.
- [32:30]
B
Be.
- [32:31]
A
It's just as hard for me as it is for everyone else. Just hopefully if you do it enough, you get faster. But it's been like a dream come true. Getting paid to, like, run and represent health and wellness brands is crazy to think of where I was, you know, 15 years ago.
- [32:47]
B
Do you run 10 miles legitimately every day? Like, you never take anything.
- [32:50]
A
And I log every single mile is logged on Strava on the. I don't know if you know that app Strava.
- [32:55]
B
Yeah, I know it.
- [32:55]
A
Every single run I've done since 2013 is there. I've averaged, like 4,000 miles a year for the past five years, which is 10.6 miles a day every single day.
- [33:05]
B
With no days off would all be outside.
- [33:09]
A
99.9%.
- [33:13]
B
So when I run into you at the super bowl, are you just going for a Bay area run that morning? Like, no matter, because you're. I'm sure you're traveling for work and stuff. What do you. What do you do? What about the weather? What if it's raining or freezing?
- [33:23]
A
Every day? Every day. Tornado, hurricane, snowstorm. Every single day.
- [33:29]
B
Because it ain't warm where you live, Right? So what'd you do during the snowstorm or the ice storm.
- [33:34]
A
I show you. I'll show you a picture that will, like, perfectly summarize what that snowstorm was like. Here, give me one second. You're gonna like this.
- [33:44]
B
Someone was telling me a story that they lived there and they said the thing.
- [33:48]
A
Oh, my God, 15 miles, pouring rain and snow and like 10 degrees outside.
- [33:55]
B
I thought, is that one of the coldest runs you've ever been on?
- [33:59]
A
No, I've been on some cold ones, man. I've been on. I've run everywhere in the world. I've run almost in every single country, like, almost of them on every continent. I've run in some cold places, like we take the kids skiing. I run 10 miles up the side of the mountain in Aspen. I've been. I've run down some really cold ones. Like well below zero. Just have gear.
- [34:18]
B
Yeah. So what would you say is a more. I know you ran a race in Mongolia.
- [34:24]
A
Yeah.
- [34:24]
B
Would you say the peak of the. The hottest places in the world or a freezing cold below zero run? Which one's more difficult?
- [34:32]
A
Miles.
- [34:33]
B
The.
- [34:34]
A
The heat is miles harder than the cold within. Within reason. I mean, if it's minus 50, I don't know, like, but running in the heat, your body uses about 80% of the energy it's burning is trying to cool your body down. Just like a car engine. If the, if the engine can't be cooled down, it's going to overheat and stop working. And when it's real hot, like my. Any runner that you look at, their best times will always be run when it's slightly colder outside. So like my fastest times were run when it was like 40 degrees and I had on like shorts and a tank top.
- [35:06]
B
That's the ideal running condition. You would say 40, 50 degrees for sure.
- [35:10]
A
Like about 40, mid-40s is ideal. Like, you, you want to be. You want to be freezing cold at the beginning because by the end you're not going to be cold. But. Yeah. The race in Mongolia, about a month before the race start started, I think it was in 2023. About a month before the race, a guy from this guy, Scott Derue, who was the CEO at Equinox, he's now the CEO at Ironman, he's a friend and he called me and said he's running this race called the Gobi March across the Gobi Desert in Mongolia, asked if I would join if for some advice. And I was like, oh, wow, this race sounds interesting. I had never run an ultra. Never run with a backpack. I grew up in the city I had never been camping in my life and I was like, dude, that race sounds interesting. I bet you I could smash everyone just kind of clown and run. And he was like, come on, sign up, I'll get Equinox to sponsor you. So he did. They when I wrote the race director it was sold out for like well over a year. And she was like, yeah, you, we will comp your entry. And I showed up there. I so for a month I tried a bunch of different backpacks, put like towels and bottled water inside the backpack. In June in Nashville and I would finish and be down like 10 pounds from a 20 mile run with this weighted 20 pound backpack because that's how much weight I was carrying because it was self supported, meaning you had to carry everything you needed except water. And they would provide a tent. So I had my backpack, a change of clothes. You had to have mandatory certain safety items, like a whistle of, you know, one of those aluminum blanket things, like just some safety, safety, you know, insurance stuff for them and then your food. So for a week, so I'm burning like 10,000 calories a day, but I only had 2500 calories spaced out per day. And of course, you know, after three days I probably ate most of the food. But what I had planned on and I did, I had never done this race so I wasn't sure how it would work. But I assumed people would be dropping out and I'd be able to scavenge for stuff and just survive, which is what happens. And, and first day I got the shit kicked out of me and I was like oh my God, I finished fourth and I was like oh my God. In my mind I'm like, I'm killing everyone. And now I'm like, I'm like 12 minutes down after the first day which was 21 miles, the next day was 28 miles. And it's a long story but I won that stage by like 10 minutes. So I was still two minutes down. But with a few miles ago I fell down the bat, the strap on my backpack ripped off and I busted my arm open. So I'm bleeding everywhere and my bag is ripped and I'm thinking like, oh my God, no one's going to believe my bag really ripped. They're going to think I like quit on this race. So I like Jerry rigged it together for the third day. It ripped again the third day. But after the third day a woman dropped out and she let me take her backpack. So I had this ill fitting backpack that like friggin rubbed my Whole body raw. Like I had just chafing everywhere. And on the fourth day, it was 50 miles, I was down by about eight minutes. And with the leader, a Swiss guy, this adventure race, a really strong athlete. And it was just him and I together. That 50 miles and 35 miles in, he started to fall apart and he was like, man, I gotta walk for a minute. And you know, we're alone and we're in the desert, so I'm like, all right, I'll walk with you for a minute. You know, we're racing but I still like, we're all like, it's dangerous. It's 50 mile day. We've been out already for like seven hours and it's hot. So then he's out of water. So I'm giving him. We could get water every like 5 to 10 miles, but you, you know, you could take as much as you want, but you have to carry it. So you know you've got just enough to get to the next, next station. So I'm giving him my water, you know, hoping that he doesn't like friggin pass out. And eventually first aid came by, but once they came by the trucks and they gave him like, you know, started like taking care of him, I took off and I beat everyone that day by 90 minutes. And then there was only two more stages and I just went on to win the whole thing. And so I end up winning the whole race by 90 minutes. And that race has been called the toughest race in the world. And but yeah, it was the first time I ever ran more than a marathon. And it was basically like the equivalent of a marathon every day for five days with a 50 miler mixed in.
- [39:07]
B
What type heat are we talking about?
- [39:09]
A
You know, we get up to like 100 during the day. They're not like crazy, like crazy heat, but hot enough for someone to die. Someone did die, yeah, they had to like be taken out with a camel.
- [39:21]
B
So do you run the whole thing on one pair of shoes or do you bring multiple pair of shoes?
- [39:25]
A
Yeah, no, no, I wore one pair.
- [39:27]
B
Of shoes and then like shorts and shirts and stuff. Are you going through new stuff every day?
- [39:33]
A
No, I had, I had one extra of everything. So for the first four days I wore the same one. So when we get back and they, and you know, the race organizers like, listen, don't waste the water, taking showers or washing your clothes because we only have so much. Of course after the second day I'm like all this, give me that bottle of water. And I started like Washing my clothes inside the one of the water bottles that I had. And then I had an Italian guy hold the water over my head while I tried to take a shower. So after four days, I shit canned one set of clothes, wore the next set. And I had like three pairs of socks that I tried to space out. But once I wore them, like my bag was getting lighter because the food was going down. Yeah, clothes were going down, but you know, you had to have certain things like a raincoat, a down jacket, gloves, hat, because it would get cold. That's the other thing. It would get hot during the day, but it'd be freezing at night.
- [40:21]
B
And you're just in a tent. It's not like you got much with you, dude tent.
- [40:25]
A
One day when we're standing at the day before the 50 mile stage, I get into the thing and there's only a few, you know, because one of the luxuries of finishing first is you get there and you can get all your set up before anyone else gets back so you can take the best spot.
- [40:38]
B
And.
- [40:39]
A
And I'm standing there and all of a sudden like a big squall comes through and I look outside of the tent and the tent is like rattling. I look out and like three or four of the tents get picked up and like chucked out into the desert like a half a mile. Like they just launched into the air. And I was like, holy. So obviously I got out of the tent and went and stood near the trucks hoping that my tent wouldn't fly away. But it was like that every day. Just crazy. Every single day.
- [41:01]
B
Once you're done, I mean, you say you run 10 miles a day. Do you take a couple days off to like re recover your potty after a situation like that?
- [41:08]
A
Nah, I usually do like active recovery. Meaning like the best way to recover from that stuff is to jog a little bit the next day. So that race finished on Saturday. I flew home on a Sunday. So the before I went and got on this like 17 hour flight, I just jogged around in Ulaanbaatar in the capital of Mongolia for like three or.
- [41:26]
B
Four miles for the lactic acid. It doesn't build up and then you wouldn't even move.
- [41:29]
A
It sounds crazy, but it definitely helps if you don't. I mean, even the marathon winners, they'll run after their marathon's over. They'll jog to cool down, they'll run the next day. Not hard, just super easy, but you just gotta like keep the body moving.
- [41:43]
B
Well, I think obviously everything you just said Serves as an inspirational story for anyone, you know, going through their own personal demons.
- [41:52]
A
Thank you, brother.
- [41:52]
B
You know, because if you are going through your personal demons, especially through addiction, if you put the addiction to the right place, you really can get going in the right direction, whether that's working out or, you know, some semblance of a healthy lifestyle. And, you know, you know, your book, the Other side of Hard, you said that comes out March 10th. You can order anywhere books are sold.
- [42:13]
A
Yep, here it is. March 10. Everything youg Wants on the Other side of Hard. And I wrote the book, really, for anyone that's like, thinking of making a change in their life, Whether you're trying to get sober, thinking about a career change, taking on some physical challenges, starting a family, this book will tell you exactly how I did all of that. And as you can see looking at me, I've got no special skill sets. I have no natural talent. But I do have incredible willpower and grit, and that's really all you need. We live in the greatest country on Earth. You can do anything you want here.
- [42:46]
B
Where'd you run this morning?
- [42:48]
A
Just here in Nashville. Run my normal route and now I've been here for, like, four or five years. So every morning when I run, it's literally like I feel like the local celebrity. Every single car, as they're driving the kids to school. Beep. And I coached the local high school cross country team. I helped coach them. I was like, the assistant coach. And the girls won the state title, went to the nationals. They were unbelievable. They just destroyed everybody. And so, like, everyone, when I'm riding out all the cars. Coach Ken. Coach Ken. And I tell myself, like, it's the happiest time of my life now. Like, the happiest part of my day is, like, out running what used to be, like, a suffer fest. And now I'm like, it's become a massive source of pride.
- [43:22]
B
That's awesome. You probably got. You got a smile on your face, too, because that ice storm's long gone. You probably got weather.
- [43:27]
A
Oh, the Iowa was crazy because it pissed down rain for, like, 24 hours. And then it was like, no, like 15 degrees. So all the trees frozen. They all, like, tons of trees were down. Lots of people in Nashville lost power. It was. It was. It was no joke. I'd never been in a storm like that in Boston. A ton of snow you can handle. But when everything was covered in ice, it was like, literally the trees were all bent over. And I was like, oh, I don't want to spend money Replacing trees.
- [43:54]
B
Yeah. At the volume party, Bob, who is one of the main sales guys at iHeart, was telling he's born and raised in Chicago and has lived in Nashville forever. I said, how did that storm compare to anything that you grew up with? He said, it ain't even close. This ice storm was by far the craziest thing he'd ever seen. Because of what you said, the weight on these trees. It was. He's like, I pulled up to a stoplight the day after. I. I just went through it because I was afraid these trees were just, they were just coming down. So as a runner, you're running these areas, you had to be pretty careful with your head on a swivel kind of when you're moving. Right.
- [44:27]
A
That was one of the days that I didn't run outside was the day after that storm. I couldn't get out of my driveway. When I tell you everything was coated in ice and not like, like a little, like maybe there's a spot here. Spot. I'm talking like a quarter inch of ice on everything. The cars, the power lines. It was. And then the vice was falling down off the power lines. And then when I could get outside and the sun came out, it was like 10 degrees. So there was one main road in front of my house. The only good thing is there were no cars out because it would be very hard to get your car out of the driveway. So I was just running up and down in the middle of this, like, huge street, and there was no one there, like a car every day, 20 or 30 minutes. So I ran back and forth on this like three mile strip. I'm sure my neighbors were like, thought I was crazy, but I was out there getting it done.
- [45:10]
B
Well, Ken, I appreciate you coming on. You're an inspiration. I'm gonna go put my running shoes on and go for a little jog around the neighborhood. So I, I really appreciate you and your story is, like I said, very inspirational. And keep crushing and good luck in your next race.
- [45:23]
A
Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. And thanks to our man, Jamie Horowitz for connecting us. I sincerely, man, I appreciate you sharing your platform with me. I know that it's nut that's a decision that you make lightly and I can't thank you enough. And I will get your address from Jamie and we'll be happy to send you a signed copy of the book. And I hope that you enjoy it and I appreciate you allowing me to share my story with your audience.
- [45:48]
B
No problem. My. My wife and I got married in Nashville, so I. I absolutely love that place. And if I'm ever out there, I'll get your. Get your contact information. Yep.
- [45:57]
A
You got a place to stay? If you ever come to Nashville Golf, you're in luck because I'm the worst golfer in the world. I live on a cool course, and always happy to get embarrassed myself with friends.
- [46:07]
B
Okay, talk to you soon, man. Have a great day.
- [46:10]
A
Thank you, man. Thanks, guys.
- [46:24]
B
Okay, let's dive into the mailbag at John Midcoff. At John Middelkoff is the Instagram. Fire into those DMS and get your questions answered here on the show. Let's start with Nick. Huge fan, Daily listener. Why isn't the 08 Steelers defense viewed as one of the best defenses of the 2000s? They showed their stats at the super bowl, and it seemed amazing. Similar to Lob and the Ravens. I think sometimes teams just get lost. I think anyone that knows the best dealer teams, you know, with. With Tomlin and that cower kind of run, their defenses were elite. I mean, when Tomlin first got there and they had like, James Harrison, Woodley, Paula Malu, I think Ike Taylor was one of the corners. Brett Kiesel, is that the defensive lineman to do with the big beard? They were. Casey Hampton, was he on the team? They were awesome. James Harrison was a monster. Philly seemed like a really crazy place to work. What? This also asks another question. What are some of the craziest things that happened when you work there? What does Big Dom do? He was at the Senior Bowl. I had multiple people reach out, like, what is Big Dom doing at the Senior bowl? Guys? He travels with Sirianni and Howie. Like, he. He's bodyguard meets. You know, he's a part of the personnel department in terms of. He's doing research on these guys. You know, when they're talking character, especially off the field, major question marks, He's a big part of that. So James Pierce, when you find out after the fact, like, he gets in trouble and got all the details that keep coming out, it looks bad that he was off draft boards. Well, when you have guys who are like, should this guy or should this guy not be on draft boards? Dom is working the foes. Like, I mean, he just knows people. They know him. And he's an elite information accumulator. He also does stuff with their players. Like, it's hard to really describe his role. I'm sure some of you, if you work in certain companies, you have an individual, it's like, what does he do? He kind of Just does everything. You know, he's. He's a different version of this. But remember pink stripes? What was Ernie Adams for Belichick? It's like, well, what did he do? A little bit of everything. He was just always around. And again, Ernie was more from like a schematic game plan standpoint. The dude that Vrabel has, Stretch, they call him, who's just kind of behind the scenes doing all these teams have a guy that just do some things that no one can really put their finger on. It's like, I know what the GM does. I know what the scouts do, I know what the coaches do. What's this guy do? Stuff that's important and the team knows. So it's, I think, part of working in football, in the NFL, especially in certain cities. Just an intense environment, you know, you're working long hours. It's a public job. Not. I mean, no one knew who I was when I was there, but just people talking about, you turn on the radio. Just. It's just a really, really intense environment that was awesome that I got to experience it, but. But I've never looked back since I got in this career, so I'm glad I did. It helped catapult me to where I'm at. But nothing like I'm trying to think of crazy things that happened. It was just. It's just a crazy daily. A lot of edginess, a lot of people mad at each other, a lot of tired people. It's just people are on edge. We didn't, by the time I got there, Michael Vick's first year when he almost won the mvp and then the next couple years weren't good. So it's not like I have a Super bowl champion or anything. My friends are. A lot of people I work with are, hey, John, when do you think Lamar falls off a cliff like Russell Wilson? We saw this year how he's not as mobile and he's not as good. Mobile quarterbacks never can convert into quarterbacks from the pocket. I'm hammering the Ravens under wins next year. That's not true. Steve Young did. Steve Young turned into a very accurate pocket passer. Passer. I think Lamar as a passer, consistent passer from the pocket is way better than Russell Wilson was. Obviously his scrambling was more dynamic and their playmaking was both elite. To me, Lamar Jackson is the higher level version of Russell Wilson. Right. I mean, Russell Wilson, like didn't win. I don't think he ever got an MVP vote. So I. I think Lamar, I think these next couple Years are pretty critical. Like, he's not going to be running around at 36 like he's able to do now in theory. Now this year, banged up. Are these injuries going to last? You know, he took that. I don't want to say it was innocuous because in football, even when you get hit and it doesn't look as bad, it still probably hurts. The hit he hurt on his. Got hit in the back and it. You just got it. He's got to be much more. I think he's always been pretty instinctive when he runs and not take big hits, but sometimes they run him between the tackles. Like, I think we're kind of scrapping that. Like, no more taking unnecessary hits with this guy. But I don't see a precipitous. Just one day he's just falling off a cliff. I think it'd probably be more gradual and injuries would play a bigger role. But if he's healthy like Russell was, I think he would be a good player. Excellent player. We saw in that play, in that, technically, it was a playoff game. Them against Steelers, week 18, Sunday Night Football. He made some incredible plays in that game. I mean, incredible plays. I got scolded for, quote, unquote, babysitting my own kids. Now they're eight and six. In your case, they are a baby and they sit. So keep saying. Keep saying it. I agree. I babysit every morning. My role in my home, like my tasks, we consider my mahomes. I say it's my mahomes to grab the trash or whatever. Because years ago we tried to. I was like, joking with her, like, we all have roles in the home. Like, you do stuff better than me, I do stuff better than her. And I think the Chiefs game was on. It's like, there's certain things the Chiefs depend on Mahomes to do. So when I have to do something, you know, like my roles in the home, which, you know, pay the mortgage, that's my Mahomes. Take out the trash my mahomes carry. Take care. Babysit my child usually early in the morning because she stays up late from like 6 to 10, 11 over the last couple weeks. And no big deal, just doing what a father should do. Half serious question. Do you think Mike McDonald, if Mike McDonald said to himself, I'm done hiring offensive coordinators, I'm going to call the offensive plays, he could make the transition successful. Now he's. He's gotten his doctorate in football on the defensive side of the ball, going back to Georgia through the Ravens. He's a defensive coach and he's calling the defensive place. So you could not call the offense in the defensive place. I think he'd be the first to say too like they hire Kubiak, they run that offense. Kubiak knows that offense 50 times better than he does. I'm sure Mike learned it and had a pretty good understanding of it, but I don't think it would be feasible. I don't. I've heard players, you know, there are certain coaches that probably could but you couldn't call the offense and defensive side of the ball and manage the game. I just don't think you have the mental capacity, stamina to do it over a 17 week season to game plan. How do you go to both meetings to game plan if you're calling the offense and the defense sense it'd be a lot. I, I don't even know if he capable of it from a schematic standpoint, an understanding standpoint but from a functionality standpoint I think it'd be impossible. Do you see the Rams moving off Puka? There seems to be some red flags with his recent off the field antics and the Rams may get ahead of it by before paying top dollar for him can use the 13th pick in the draft to replace him. To think that you can find a player in the draft 75% as good as him. I think any GM or scout would tell you that's you are keeping your fingers crossed and kind of pissing into the wind. This could be a nightmare. So are there some things that you go yeah, come on Puka, are you, are you mature enough to handle this? Are you a guy that we go all in on? I mean at the super bowl when I was talking to Justin Jefferson, you know I follow Justin Jefferson from afar. He's just a positive, upbeat, high level energy guy. You just feel pretty good of like this is the high level cat. You don't really have to worry about him. You know part of the thing with Puka is like yeah, he's young player into stardom, about to get big money. But here's the key. He is elite. So if you can pay him and get three more years of this version in which you got the last couple years, you don't really have a choice now would I entertain trading him? Like what can you get? He's not good enough where you don't have a conversation. Right? But what is the conversation? Would someone trade me two first round picks for Puka Nakua and anyone that would be willing to do that, like where are they Drafting? Is that like the Bills or something? So I'm getting two picks in the mid 20s. Would I trade two picks in the mid 20s for this guy? How do I replace that? If I draft player X at 13, is this guy ready to roll as a rookie? Because not everyone is. I mean, devonte Adams, he'd be the first to tell you his first year and a half are really, really difficult. So I, I think, I think it's easy to say this, but he's so good. It's very rare that you just don't see a team extend that guy guy. And listen, he's got some things that clearly the Rams wish he wouldn't have done, but it's nothing that egregious. I wouldn't compare him to James Pierce. Mailbag Question if an entire NFL coaching staff took over an 8th grade team and had a full off season to train them, do you think they could dominate against high school varsity teams? Since NFL coaches are much more advanced strategically, could their schemes and preparation help 8th graders overcome the obvious size disadvantage? I think my immediate answer if it's a capable high school team, not like the worst high school team in America, but just a good high school team, you know, you just pick it. Eric Scottsdale Arizona, Sacramento, California I think there would be no way, because look at the super bowl. At the end of the day, what defines football? The line of scrimmage. So even if I had one eighth grader that maybe is so exceptional he could be like a varsity wide receiver, I would not have the offensive or defensive lineman to block them. So if you have a bunch of kids that are 18 versus a bunch of kids that are 13, is that the age you are in eighth grade, 13 or 14? It's, you know, in boys, most, you know, kind of hit puberty right around that age. So you really grow 14 to 15. Huge gap from 15 to 18. It's not like girls who, some of them hit them 11, 12, 13 years old. So you'd be getting a lot of really underdeveloped boys against every boy on a high school varsity team that's starting would have hit puberty and be just way stronger. So I you, you could scheme up a play or two right in and make some cool plays, but you wouldn't be able to block them. I don't think you'd be able to run it on them that that would be the problem. Question for the bag I didn't expect the recency bias to hit so hard, but in what world is Sam Darnold actually being Taken over. Jalen hurts. They threw for the same amount of TDs in the regular season, and Darnold threw twice as many picks as Jalen. Jalen also had eight rushing touchdowns. Take into consideration Jalen's playoff record versus Darn Arnold. I think it's more like looking forward, you give me Jalen's interceptions. Well, he dinks and dunks a lot of the game like Jalen. We have to agree. And, and he, you know, you give eight rushing touchdowns. How many of those are tush pushes at the line of scrimmage? Because his rushing willingness is clearly gone. Because I don't think like the offensive coordinator. Let's just stop calling runs for Jalen. Clearly he doesn't want to run anymore, which I don't blame him. I, I'm. I got a big contract. I probably want another one. So I don't want to get injured, run around. I want to pass. He's not a great passer. I. We have to acknowledge that, like, you watch Jalen play. He's a pretty frustrating player now. So, Sam, but I think if you said the next five years, if the, if the Eagles could choose if Jalen's not going to run anymore, you give me the rushing touchdowns, to me, will he keep. If you told me Jalen is going to be a dual threat, He's a good player, but he's no longer a dual threat because they don't call any design runs. So I think watching Jalen this year was. He was a player that most people in the NFL would go. That's. That's a scary trend because not like he had nobody to throw to. And I know everyone thinks the offensive coordinator is the village idiot. Maybe he is right. I haven't seen he got hired anywhere, but hell, he might be living off that money, which I wouldn't blame him. Said it all the time. Will you pay me a million dollars to do nothing? You think I'm gonna work? This is America, baby. But Sam's season, like, the totality of the season, was not nearly as dominant as he was last year. But in the playoffs, he was really good. He was just in complete control, didn't turn the ball over. I mean, the game he played against Matt Stafford was elite.
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He didn't have to do much against the 49ers. I mean, the Super Bowl, super bowl, he was okay. I think it's more about, like, is Jalen getting better? And if he's not getting any better and if he's not going to be willing to run, what type Player. Is he going to be moving forward? Like, does he want to do the Russell Wilson. I'm not scrambling around anymore. I want to play like Brady. That was Russell's thing. I'm a pocket quarterback. They're like, okay, champ, you're a pocket quarterback now. Then it did not go well. Like, Jalen, you're a playmaker. I don't know why anyone's offended by that anymore. You shouldn't be offended. Like, you're a game manager. Alex smith made like $200 million being a game manager. Jimmy Garoppolo made a ton of money being a game manager. Being a game manager is fine. Everyone's like, you can't be. Can't be a game manager. What's wrong with that? Can't be a dual threat quarterback. Well, if you're a dual threat quarterback like Jalen, who's pretty good at avoiding hits, like, that's a. That's a powerful attribute to have, but he doesn't want to run anymore. To me, if Jalen does not want to run anymore, I'm out on him as a player. Not that he sucks and he's going to be out of the league, but I think there's going to be a lot more of what we witnessed this year than, like, him turning it around and being some elite. I was going to say Pro bowl guy, but you know what I mean? Pro bowl, like a high end starter, but I hear you. I mean, I think we're probably overreacting to Darnold winning the super bowl, but he's clearly just a solid player now. I think that's what Jalen is. Jalen's a solid player. They have their good days, they have their bad days, but I think we have to acknowledge, like, Jalen ain't some superstar quarterback. As a diehard Browns fan, I have a hard time listening to you. And Colin occasionally take jabs at Cleveland for letting Stefanski walk. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're. You're. This is one of the only lone soldiers out there that go. Is Stefanski good? I. Me and Colin are not on quite on the same page on that one. I've watched every game of theirs since he became the coach during his last two seasons. The offense has been atrocious. I know he won coach of the year before, but I feel like that's an award for doing better than expected. You're right. Not actually accomplishing anything like making a deep playoff run. Also, since winning coach of the year in 23, the team's offensive trajectory has been downward. And he's supposed to be an offensive minded coach. However, the offense looks stale and uncreative. I'm with you. I think he's a little overrated because if you're an offensive mastermind, you kind of figure it out. And you watch the last couple of years, specifically this year, it couldn't have been any worse. They were unwatchable and like, okay, hand the ball off to quit John Junkins, like anyone called those plays. Can you scheme up some, some, some pass plays? Can you get some guys? And he could not do it. He was awful. Often, you know, Patola gets crushed in Philly. Stefanski was worse this year. Now you'd be like, well, they had way more talent. I'm just talking about when you watch them like this, does anyone have any clue what's going on? No wonder Jim Schwartz was pissed. We're a defensive team. And this is why I always said about Stefanski, they've had awesome defenses with shorts over the course of the last three or four years. Definitely last couple. And it's like Kevin Stefanski, there is a decent chance this thing flames out in there in Atlanta. Like it's ugly. So I'm with you. I think maybe he's solid, but I think he's talked about like in the upper echelon of offensive minds and I just, I don't know, man. I don't see it. Long time, first time wondering who you think would win the Eagles of last year versus the Seahawks. This year would be a great matchup to see the Eagles offense for Seattle's defense. But I do think that the Eagles defense would make Donald stress. I would give the Eagles a slight edge. If Jalen is going to play like he played in the super bowl, they would be in pretty good shape. The Eagles last year by the end of the season were really humming. They were more a complete team than Seattle. Like Seattle offensively, let's face it like this. I'm not no shade that Patriot team, I mean, give me a break. Good team most years, probably like an 11 win, 10 win team and probably one and done in the playoffs. Especially if their quarterback's gonna be banged up and that guy's their left half tackle. But they win 17 games, they're in the Super Bowl. It's like, I don't know, their offensive line sucks. How many teams that offensive line is not good make the Super Bowl. Pretty rare. So I, I think Seattle, it would have been more difficult for the Eagles to just get loose on the ground. But Saquon was just like kind of in his hall of Fame season era. I mean he was, he was a man amongst boys and then the receivers were humming. Jalen was playing well and defensively well. Who was the best Patriot defensive lineman? Milton Williams. He was like the third or fourth best defensive lineman on the Eagles. So from a, from a defensive line standpoint they had Jalen, Jordan Davis, Brandon Graham. They had Sweat who's now on the Cardinals and his big time Milton Williams. Their defensive line was unreal. Zach Bond. They had the two young rookie corners. I'd probably give the that Eagles team was stacked. I'd give the Eagles a slight edge but that would be a really good game. Question for the mailbag Understand the question is going to feel reductive but wanted to get your opinion. Mike McDonald clearly is a phenomenal head coach and now joins a pretty elite group of super bowl winning head coaches. However, there have been some notable coaches who have won a Super bowl but we don't see a very, we don't see as very elite. Who do you think is the worst coach to win a Super Bowl? Sirianni, Arians Peterson come to mind? I would say Arian's a good coach. I mean Arians didn't become a head coach till later in life. Arians pretty clearly is a high end coach coach. If Bruce arians was like 55 right now and available he would have had, he would had 10 coaching offers. I would give Sirianni the like I I don't know Sirianni and I know Doug. I like Doug. I think Sirianni's proven to be a better coach than Doug. I mean Doug was kind of all over the map and Doug had some weird loyalties to coaches. Like Sirianni would throw you over the Titanic in the blink of an eye. So I would say the Doug one's a pretty big outlier. Brian Billick feels like a pretty big outlier. Barry Switzer was handed that Cowboys team. You watch some of the players talk about him. I don't think he was great. Who's won recently? Andy Belichick, McCarthy, Tomlin Harbaugh. I mean all these guys were listening are better than Doug Peterson. So I would say no, I like Doug, but I'd probably choose him. I would say if Dan Quinn had won that Patriots super bowl, he'd be near the top too. Someone else asked me a question. I don't usually read emails, but this was kind of an interesting one. We'll end on this longtime listener. Love the show. This is from Rob. They always show coaches up in their Boxes. I was wondering how many coaches are up there and what does each of them do? How do people actually. And how people actually. And how many people does it actually take to call a play? Thanks. Well, there's only one guy calling the play. So if the coordinator's up in the box, he's obviously the guy calling the play. He typically has one of his henchmen, a line, if he's a defense. If I'm Fangio, maybe my DB coach, maybe my linebacker coach, maybe my assistant defensive line coach, a guy like that sitting right next to me with binoculars telling me the personnel. So it's like, hey, three wide receivers, one back, one tight end, four wide receivers, one tight end, no back, you know, telling you that. So then I can react. Then you have usually like an intern, quality control coach, someone under that world, taking notes, jotting down each play call, jotting down tendencies, whatever specifically that coordinator likes. Let's face it, these coaching staffs are probably oversaturated right now. I mean, you go to just a random NFL or college team, they have a million coaches. They have like two position coaches per position. It's like linebacker coach, assistant linebacker coach, DB coach, assistant DB coach, safeties coach, assistant safeties coach, D line coach, assistant D line coach, pass rush specialist. So what can all these guys be doing on game day in the box? You typically as a play caller, you have a guy telling them personnel, which then helps them dictate to their play call. They are usually talking to one of the other main defensive or offensive coaches that are on the sideline. Right. If you're Fangio, maybe your linebacker coach or D line coach is on the sideline, you're communicating with them. Vice. Same thing with offensive coordinator. Usually their O line coach is on the sideline, maybe their quarterback coach is next to them or on the side, and you're constantly communicating, but you're the guy calling the place. Unless your head coach says, hey, whoever, Coach Williams, let's. If I'm the head coach, the CEO type, let's run the ball here. I don't tell you which run to call, but hey, I, I want to run the ball here so that guy will start calling run place or hey, let's. You know that some of those shots we worked on in practice, let's, let's pull the trigger here. I think a lot of that's going on with head coaches in communication with the play callers, but I, I bet there's some decent amount of guys up in the box that aren't really doing that much. Aren't, you know, from taking notes to maybe they focus on a position group like watch the defensive line, watch the coverages. You know, taking notes of what coverages they're getting. With certain looks that. That surely is going on. But it's probably jumped the shark a little bit with how many people are coaching on a staff. You know, I don't think you need three coaches, but I'm not sure you need 30. And some of these staffs are. Have a lot of guys. I mean, if I owned a team, you'd be so rich. You wouldn't spend that much time thinking about it. But there would be times where what are all these people doing? And we're where guys get mad. It's like our D line sucks. And we got four guys coaching the defensive line. We got as many coaches as we do starters. How's this possible? How are we not better in those units? So I think that gets discussed sometimes as well. Well, but good question. And I will talk to everyone in about 10 days. Audios see you later. The volume.
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