← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - LIVE from The NFL Combine Day 3, Longtime NFL reporter Albert Breer stops by, NFL Films Sr Producer Greg Cosell joins the show
01:01:12
Loading summary
Transcript403 lines
- [00:00]
Podcast Host/Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:04]
John Middlekauff
This is Lavar Arrington from Up on Game. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. It's a great time to apply for an Apple Card. You'll love earning unlimited daily cash on every Purchase. That includes 3% daily cash when you buy the latest iPhone, AirPods and Apple. Watch at Apple through this special referral offer. When you get a new Apple Card, you can earn bonus daily cash. To qualify, you must apply at Apple Co. Get daily cash Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs bank usa Salt Lake City Branch offer may not be available elsewhere. Terms and limitations apply.
- [00:36]
Albert Breer
On June 11, 1998, a deputy from
- [00:39]
John Middlekauff
the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.
- [00:42]
Greg Cosell
Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury him, what are they going to do to me?
- [00:46]
Podcast Host/Announcer
What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.
- [00:58]
John Middlekauff
Listen to Valley of shadows on the
- [01:00]
Podcast Host/Announcer
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules.
- [01:13]
Greg Cosell
Segregation in the day, integration at night. It was like stepping in another world.
- [01:18]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Was he a businessman? A criminal? A hero?
- [01:22]
Greg Cosell
Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.
- [01:27]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler. We've got some incredible guests like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your cat. How is she?
- [01:44]
John Middlekauff
She is not with us anymore.
- [01:46]
Podcast Host/Announcer
She's a great, great, great way to start. Maybe you will cry. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl? Oh my God. All the time. I know. So I try to butch it up for kids so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up is basically like an angry Woman. Doris Day, right? No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:12]
Albert Breer
The volum.
- [02:26]
John Middlekauff
What is going on, everybody? John Middlecoff 3Now podcast how are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing well. We are back in Arizona, off a little sleep and ready to enjoy some sun. Get out of the freezing cold weather. I guess it honestly wasn't that cold. I've been to Indy when it's definitely been colder and snowing, so we avoided that. But today we will talk to Albert Brear, who information gatherer in the National Football League. And we will also talk to Greg Cosell, who knows quarterbacks as well as anybody and turns out he was friends with Bill Walsh. So we'll talk to Gray Cosell. That will be the show today on this fugazi Friday because your boy is. Is out of gas. So we banged out some interviews when we were there and that's what we will do today. So we'll go with Albert Breer and then Greg Cosell. You guys know the drill. Subscribe to the podcast wherever you may. Listen. You can catch obviously all the video up on Netflix and enjoy. Let's dive into Brer, okay, here with Mr. Information, Albert Breer. I. I watch your mailbags on YouTube all the time and I've obviously, Colin, you just, you feed me full of information. So this is obviously a big week for people, people like you.
- [03:45]
Albert Breer
Yep.
- [03:45]
John Middlekauff
Coming in. What's the buzz out there on the street right now?
- [03:50]
Albert Breer
Yeah, I mean, I think this is like a interesting offseason. I think the free agent market is what it. What it's always been or has been for the last few years, where the caps escalated to the point where if you want to keep a guy, you generally can. So you're starting to hear about tags, right? Like, so George Pickens, Alec Pierce, Bree Hall. It winds up becoming a really, a really thin market. And so I think that that gooses the trade market, creates some more conversations between teams where, you know, teams that have needs they need to fill have to get a little bit more creative. And then, you know, I think, like, for me, at least, like over the last couple weeks, you know, I'm just trying to cram and learn as much about the draft class as I possibly can. And that's interesting too, because. Because I feel like there are a couple stories in this year's draft. I mean, the first one, I think is that it's Fernando Mendoza and then who the hell knows? At quarterback, there may be only one answer. And if that guy's going first overall, it's going to leave a lot of teams, you know, in March looking for some sort of answer, whether it's a bridge or something else at quarterback, you know, and then I think the very top of the draft, you don't have like the prototypes like the Cyborgs, you know? Know what I mean? There's no Calvin Johnson, receiver.
- [05:04]
John Middlekauff
There's no Miles Garrett.
- [05:06]
Albert Breer
Miles Garrett, defensive end. You know, there's no Panay Se tackle. So, you know, it's for the teams at the top. It's sort of interesting like where once you get past Mendoza, going to the Raiders, you know, the jets, the Titans, what do these teams do? Are you comfortable taking David Bailey or Arvell Reese, you know, as edge rushers? Arvell Reese is kind of more of like a Micah Parsons hybrid. Are you comfortable taking sports Spencer Fano that high or do you look at, do you go non premium position with a Jeremiah Love or a Caleb Downs? You know, I, I think it's interesting from that standpoint, although it does sound like from what I can, from what I can gather, there's some good depth. So like once you settle into bottom of the first round, second and third round, you can do some really good work.
- [05:47]
John Middlekauff
Okay, let's just start with Fernando. I mean, I'm biased. I'm a big spy Tech guy. Last year was weird. Obviously. The Pete thing, the quarterback you've covered a lot of the Brady situation, he lives in Florida, so it's not like he's in the building every day. You get draft. I mean Indiana, you're Ohio State guy. Indiana turned into Ohio State in like two years. Somehow it doesn't get much better than what he did. The Raiders have a lot of issues. The Max Crosby thing hanging over just your thoughts on Fernando going to a team that's obviously not that good.
- [06:19]
Albert Breer
Yeah, I mean, I, I mean I think like it's, it's interesting because you know, I, I do a big thing, you know, every year with DJ and with McShay and kind of have them like I had them. I was like, so where do they, these guys, where would Fernando rank historically? And this is sort of what I've gotten from teams too, is that like he would be in the class two years ago, would have been fourth beyond the big three and ahead of McCarthy, Penix and Knicks.
- [06:44]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [06:46]
Albert Breer
You know, and then, and then you look back a few more years and it's like well over the last five years, where would he be? Fourth or fifth, you know, depending on how you look at him versus Cam Ward. So he's a really good prospect worthy of going first overall. I think the question that the Raiders are going to be asking internally is we think he can be like a top 10 quarterback. Can he elevate and become a top five quarterback and you know, what do you do need to do around him to get him there? And the comps I, you know, the comp I've heard that I like the most is golf. I, you know, you hear some of the Matt Ryan too You know, can you like, do you see yourself in five years paying somebody like that? And who knows what it's gonna be? 75 million, $80 million a year.
- [07:29]
John Middlekauff
Life's good.
- [07:30]
Albert Breer
Like, is he gonna get to a second contract with you? So those are the sorts of questions you're asking. He's a really good player. I think, you know, it's just, I think in an era now where we're seeing these quarterbacks get to the second contracts and it's almost like if he's your own guy, you draft and develop and you have to pay him at the top of the market. So like, you know, what Jordan Love and Justin Herbert gets affects what Tua tangovaloa gets. So now you got Tua on top of the market deal and now that looks different once he's not on his rookie deal anymore and you can't put as much around him and now he doesn't look like the same, same player. These are all the sorts of arguments that like you're going to have to make on Fernando Mendoza if you're in that room and you're going to have to kind of play devil's advocate with a lot of that stuff. Or does Tom Brady look at him and identify with him and say, you know, chip on his shoulder. Cal leaves, Cal goes to Indiana. Like he's kind of got, you know, and again, DJ and McShay made this point, both of them made this point to me, like, there's like a lot of like kind of parallels between him and Brady. Tall, accurate, sees the field well, all that. So I know I gave you a
- [08:42]
John Middlekauff
lot there, but see, and I know where DJ and McShay come at from like a 20,000 foot view. And if I view it from the lens of like, I lived in the Bay for a long time, what Shanahan likes and now Kubiak's there. They, you know, the Cam Ward, the traits Matt, I've been around Andy Reid, they like traits. The Shanahan's accuracy, smarts. They're gonna like Fernando Mendoza, do what I told them a lot.
- [09:05]
Albert Breer
Yeah, they like having the joystick.
- [09:06]
John Middlekauff
I think Fernando Mendoza would shine for a lot of the Shanahan type guys. Like, I think now their offense isn't quite set up. They need some receivers. The running back, again, I'm spiked. That guy disagreed with the value 6 overall for the little guy. I mean, he's a lot of pressure on him to be a really, really good player, but he is a talented player. Showed some signs that the end. I think he fits that offense really, really well.
- [09:27]
Albert Breer
I think that's fair, you know, and like he can move and again he's really accurate. He sees it fast.
- [09:33]
John Middlekauff
He sees clutch plays too in big games.
- [09:36]
Albert Breer
And you know, I, I, I do think like if you look and I think one of the main, biggest criticism we're going to hear on him is like the amount of RPOs that Indiana
- [09:44]
John Middlekauff
ran but top running team in the country, right?
- [09:48]
Albert Breer
Yeah, and you saw it, but you saw some things like in big sports spots where he made big throws. You know, I mean the Penn State game I think is probably the most obvious one, you know. But in the, the Ohio State game, like the throw he made, I think there's Charlie Becker down the sideline to, yeah, to put my guys away. Like I was in the stands for that one. He, I mean that was a really, I mean a high end Ohio State defense with four guys who I think will be first round picks in this year's draft and maybe more in the next couple drafts that he was going against and he was making big plays in the passing game down the stretch of that game. You do see it in spurts and it's just, I think you have to trust that that's going to grow and there's going to be, there's going to be more of that as you go.
- [10:31]
John Middlekauff
Did you watch the John Elway doc on Netflix? Those guys got hit in the 80s. It looked like a UFC fight.
- [10:37]
Greg Cosell
Yeah.
- [10:37]
John Middlekauff
And that for honestly one of the most impressive things in Fernando Mendoza's career is the first play in the Ohio State game when he got hit like it was an 1980 in the NFL. Two plays later he's back.
- [10:47]
Albert Breer
Kaden Curry, I think hit him. Right.
- [10:48]
John Middlekauff
I mean he got clocked like the dude on the, like Sarkin in the hockey game.
- [10:51]
Albert Breer
His little brother came in and.
- [10:53]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, exactly. Ran one play and he came back. I could see Brady like because that's the NFL.
- [10:56]
Albert Breer
That's what Brady and that I think is what Brady is going to look for. Like I, I know this, like I remember you know, covering Brady when he was a younger player and he changed over the years and sort of sell there was a self preservation to his game. But if you watched Brady when he was young, he took monster hits. And I remember talking to his coaches and like how they said like he gives the receivers the line, he gives them an extra second, he gives everything an extra second. Gives the lineman an extra second to block, gives the player an extra second to develop, gives the receivers an extra second to get open because he's willing to take the hit, you know, and that was Brady when he was young. Now of course it changed I think after the acl, like there were he, I think he realized like, I'm not going to last going this way. But that's who Brady was when he was younger. It was one of the most important pieces of his game. And I mean I saw that hit, like it looked like thought he was dead.
- [11:52]
John Middlekauff
I mean honestly, I've at the stadium thought he was out for the game and their season was over.
- [11:56]
Albert Breer
Right. I mean I thought, I, I thought Ohio State at that point was going to win 45 to nothing, you know what I mean? Like, and obviously I was mistaken on that one.
- [12:04]
John Middlekauff
But his toughness, I mean that's a huge part. I think it's the most underrated part of quarterback. Even today you don't get hit as you've still got to be tough.
- [12:10]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Right.
- [12:10]
John Middlekauff
And he is. And speaking of tough, the biggest story with the Raiders is Max. And you know, you're out on the street. The Buzz, I know Spytechs, they know, clearly love that like he represents everything you'd want to play. He's probably one of the most well respected player by every coach in the NFL.
- [12:24]
Albert Breer
Right.
- [12:24]
John Middlekauff
But how do they not. I mean he's 28, 29, had some injuries. I heard you talking about it last week of like, you know, his market's still pretty. I think you get two first round picks because. Because of the amount of teams that would be bidding on him.
- [12:35]
Albert Breer
Yeah, I mean, and he's under contract. I think the question with him. So most of the guys who've been traded for two first round picks have been like smack in the middle of the prime of their careers. So Max is a little different than that.
- [12:46]
John Middlekauff
It costs a lot though.
- [12:47]
Albert Breer
Max. Max is going to be 29.
- [12:50]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [12:51]
Albert Breer
Max has finished the last three years injured. Doesn't mean he's injury prone. But facts are the facts. He's finished the last three years injured, so that's a piece of it too, you know, and it's how does he project going forward? Now the upshot of it is his contract is tradable and his contract gives his new team control. And if he's not like going to be pounding the table for a contract adjustment, if he's happy to go with his existing contract somewhere else, well then you could look at it and say we'll get good, three good years out of him. We'll be able to get at least three good years out of him. So I Don't know about two first round picks, but. And the only thing that gives me pause there, John, is the, is the age piece of it and it's just historically you look at it and the Khalil, Max, the Micah Parsons, those guys were at the end of their rookie deals when those things happen.
- [13:42]
John Middlekauff
The difference though is with those guys you obviously had to trade the two first round picks, but then you had to give them historic extensions. Yeah, this is different. You might have to, might think with the two first round picks, it's like a house seven people want to buy. I think they would be. All the good teams would be interested in Max Crosby. So you get three. Like how many people were really bidding for Micah because he had to sign the contract?
- [14:01]
Albert Breer
Right.
- [14:01]
John Middlekauff
Well, if it's, it's kind of a unique deal.
- [14:03]
Albert Breer
I mean and, and like part of that's sliding too and that like, because it's like some of those deals, like the Cleo Mack deal, the Michael Parsons deal, those happen in training camps. So you don't know what that first round pick is now. Like I think the two super bowl teams will be involved if he becomes available 100% and those two teams have the 31st and 32nd picks. That means like they're not going to get away with like just like, whereas if you have the 20th pick or you have the 15th pick, then obviously that's going to change the value and the fact that we know where those picks are versus like some of these guys that got traded during training camp where you're. A lot of it's guesswork, you know, changes the equation too.
- [14:43]
John Middlekauff
Less than Sean at the 13th pick because I, Atlanta, they've been known to do some crazy stuff. Do you think Max gets traded?
- [14:52]
Albert Breer
I, I don't, I, I, I don't know. Just because I know Max is really principled. I know he's got the loyalty to Mark Davis, the loyalty to the Raiders, the desire to be a, a one team guy. I also know like he had a good conversation with Clint Kubiak. My question is like the Tom Brady, Alex Guerrero, like that whole part of
- [15:17]
Greg Cosell
it,
- [15:19]
Albert Breer
can they get that ironed out? Can they get that? Like, because I do think that there was a part of it for Max and this is like just me talking. But like I think for Max, like a big piece of this is like what does he have to compete for if he hasn't been competing for championships, which the team hasn't been good enough for him to compete for championships. All pros, statistical benchmarks, being able to Say, like I answer the bell every week for my teammates. And I think like last year he kind of felt like that was taken away from him, you know? And is he gonna hold on to that? I don't. That's the part that's really hard to project. Like, how long does he hold on to that? And then I think the other piece of it too is like, we're here, these teams are talking to each other. Like, does what people are whispering to the Raiders affect it too? You know what I mean? Like, where if the Raiders don't think the market is as hot as people think it'll be for them, like, does that affect their. Well, their willingness to go back in and try to mend fences.
- [16:21]
John Middlekauff
One takeaway I had from yesterday is I think most people casually think, oh, they don't like A.J.
- [16:26]
Greg Cosell
brown.
- [16:26]
John Middlekauff
He's a big pain. I think the Eagles internally like A.J.
- [16:29]
Podcast Host/Announcer
brown.
- [16:29]
Albert Breer
Yeah.
- [16:29]
John Middlekauff
I think the players like him, the coaches like him. The view on the outside is different, I think, than the inside. I just thought like, well, he's older, makes a lot of money. Just get out to give him away for third. Like, I actually don't think they're just giving him away. Like I came away. Like, I think this A.J. brown thinks a little more complicated than people just assume. Is that fair?
- [16:46]
Albert Breer
Yeah, I mean, I think it's look like they've got some cap issues coming down the pike.
- [16:51]
John Middlekauff
That's true.
- [16:51]
Albert Breer
And they've got some things that they're going to have to clean up. And you know, the way you clean, clean those things up is you move older players off the roster and get really younger, really young players on the roster.
- [17:05]
John Middlekauff
And so he's done that over the last couple years.
- [17:07]
Greg Cosell
Yeah.
- [17:07]
Albert Breer
And I think that, that, that part of it can't be ignored. That it's. Well, like if somebody's offering a first round pick and something else for him, which I don't know it'll be offered at this point because I do think he's. I think he's lost a step. Like, I think he's still a really good player, but I think he's lost a step. But if somebody comes to you with the first round pick and say a fourth round pick or whatever, that's two players that are going to be on your roster for cheap. You have to take the cap hit. But I think that stuff can be overblown sometimes too. Just in that. Well, you have to take this cap hit. It's like that's not disappearing if you hang on to him like that's going to like that mortgaged money that's sitting there on your. That's eventually going to hit, like, so one way or the other, you're going to have to account for it at some point. Makes it interesting. I'm with you. Like, I think he's a good guy who's liked in the locker room, all that. Like, I think Jalen Hurts has more problems in that regard than A.J. brown does. You know, I think that's one where Howie can kind of sit back and I don't think he needs to shop him. I think people will naturally come to him and then he can assess it from there.
- [18:12]
John Middlekauff
The team in your backyard, do you think they were kind of rattled by how the super bowl went, or is it one of those.
- [18:20]
Albert Breer
Well, I think if you look at the way that they handle the trade deadline, they were playing really well. And I still think that there was a caution, we're not there yet. And a realistic look at the roster and like, looking at it and saying, well, this is great and we're doing awesome, but is this really like the roster that we'll be able to for the next five years? And the reality of it is at receiver, they're relying on Stefon Diggs and Matt Collins. At tight end, they're relying on Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper. Their right tackle is Morgan Moses. Like, they're older in a bunch of positions. And I think there's a little bit of like a cautionary tale there to some degree with the commanders last year where the commanders got old in a hurry, fast and like, it went from, all right, this stuff's all working out now. We're all in. We're trading for Lattimore, we're trading for Deebo, we're trading, trading for Tunsil. They got old. And what happens to teams that get old? They get hurt. They get hurt. They get hurt. And so now you got the injuries, now they're getting beat up. And now you look at it and I think they've only got five picks, so they're gonna have to move around
- [19:27]
John Middlekauff
to the Texans, have their second round pick. It's like pick 37, right?
- [19:30]
Albert Breer
Right. So you're looking at all these moving pieces here and, you know, so I think for the Patriots, they have sort of taken this approach. We're staying the course and we're going to keep built. And that doesn't mean they wouldn't take advantage of an opportunity like a Max Crosby. I think they would. But I believe they've got 11 picks and, you know, I think the intention has been like to build something sustainable. And I think they also recognize that there are a few of those key positions where they're already kind of naturally older and they're going to need younger players soon.
- [20:02]
John Middlekauff
Couple quick newsies questions before you get out of here. The news on Davis Webb yesterday. From the outside, I know you're pretty dialed in on this. It looks like file fires Lombardi. He maybe could have got the Cardinals or one of those type jobs. He had to like, promise him the play calling to keep him around. Is that a fair assessment of that situation?
- [20:20]
Albert Breer
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it wasn't. As Andrew Siciliano trips over his credential there somehow.
- [20:24]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, held it together.
- [20:26]
Albert Breer
I guess if I was doing the Olympics for the last three weeks, I'd be worn out too. Yeah. So I, I, I think, you know,
- [20:37]
John Middlekauff
were you surprised by that? Did you know that was coming? Had you heard?
- [20:39]
Albert Breer
I, I, I would say it wasn't, I don't think it was just the head coaching situations. It was also like the Giants that kicked tires on him as a coordinator, the Ravens had kicked tires on him as a coordinator, and so they were
- [20:52]
John Middlekauff
going to lose them.
- [20:52]
Albert Breer
I think what's fascinating about it is you just, you, you look at it and where they're at now and like, it's not like Sean Payton failed as a play caller and that's been his calling card for a quarter century. So I think it shows you how he values Davis Webb on his staff, how maybe Bo Nix values Davis Webb on his staff, because you really look at that and it's like that's not an answer for the next 10 years. If Davis Webb does a good job, he's going to be gone, you know. And so now what do you do? Do you go back to Sean calling the plays? I, I think it's fascinating from that standpoint in that it's not a guy who is failing as a play caller. He's one of the best play callers of his generation. It's something he's done, has been central to his job for 25 years. Going all the way back to the Giants when I was in college. And you turn it over to a guy who, I mean, realistically, if he does a good job, is going to put you in a position where you're going to be looking for another play caller, whether it's Sean or somebody else in a year or two.
- [21:57]
John Middlekauff
Well, obviously Tomlin next year will be in the mix. He's going to be one of the main candidates. If he Wants to.
- [22:01]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Who knows?
- [22:01]
John Middlekauff
Maybe he's just so rich and over it all and just goes to TV star. I watched some of the Ravens press conference, Anthony Weaver, I was like, God, this guy sounds like a head coach.
- [22:09]
Albert Breer
Yeah, he does.
- [22:09]
John Middlekauff
That guy's going. But Davis, Webb, it feels like it's going to have a ton of momentum if the Broncos are good to be one of the top candidates next year.
- [22:14]
Albert Breer
Yeah, I think he was squarely in it. I'd say he was the runner up for the Raiders job. Not saying that Clint wouldn't have gotten it if Davis hadn't pulled his name out, but I know he was a really strong candidate there. Philip Rivers, like Davis?
- [22:26]
John Middlekauff
No, I'm saying. But it's Philip Rivers, another guy candidate for next year.
- [22:30]
Albert Breer
So I'm going to be interested to see if Philip Rivers goes to NC State because his son just committed there. And I. I think Philip has a desire to eventually coach in the NFL. I know there were only a few teams he was willing to listen to. He was willing to kind of go out there for and the reason why. And it's not like an arrogance or anything like that. I think it's really important for him to finish coaching his son. And I remember in conversation with him, and this is probably when Gunner was 11 or 12 years old and he was still playing for the Chargers, and he said to me, and I asked him the retirement question and he basically said to me, he was like, well, I am on a timeline here. He's like, my dad coached me in high school. I want to coach Gunner and I want to coach my sons, plural. I want to have that experience that my dad had. I want them to have the experience that I had. And so I think like the ability to coach his son his senior year in high school is important. And I do wonder, with his son now committed to NC State, is that where he winds up?
- [23:35]
John Middlekauff
And even.
- [23:36]
Albert Breer
And if NC State were to make a change after this, like, that's one to watch. Where it's like, does he look at it and say, say, I'm going to go be the head coach at NC State for the next four, five years and then coach my son, maybe coach, coach both my sons through that and then. And then go to the NFL. I think it's an interesting thing.
- [23:56]
John Middlekauff
Schefter puts out the Trent Williams thing about 30 minutes before John gets up on the podium, I would imagine. I don't know if the 49ers would want that out. So maybe Trent, I mean, the going back and forth there. What do you make of that situation?
- [24:08]
Albert Breer
I think just in the middle of a negotiation, I mean, I'm like, I think they've been through this with Trent so many times now. They've obviously got a lot of experience with uncomfortable contract negotiations. I think it was. Was it consecutive summers where it was like, Bosa happens every year. It was Debo, Bosa and Iuk. Right. Like, in three consecutive off seasons. So, like, they've. They've dealt with these situations before. They've dealt with them with Trent specifically. I. I just think he's too freaking important. Like, I would argue he might be the most indispensable player in that team, including the quarterback. And I think Brock's a really good player.
- [24:41]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [24:41]
Albert Breer
You know, but I think he makes a decent offensive line look better than it is. Like, he's that good a left tackle. And so I think he knows it. And I think, you know, there's. Every year now, I think you're kind of in that position where it's like, okay, like, what do we need to do to get him back? And I would think. I know how much Kyle thinks of him. I would think they're going to do everything they can to get him back.
- [25:05]
John Middlekauff
Last but not least, the Sam Darnold situation. The impact that had on Minnesota. How cool of a genuine human interest story, him winning. It had a lot of ripple effects throughout the league. I mean, you've been covering the league a long time. You ever seen a, like, basically in the dirt. It had an Alex Smith vibe, but Alex Smith never won that many playoff games, let alone win the Super Bowl. I mean, I just don't remember. And a guy that was like, universally light, it's like, it's not like kind of an a hole, you know? You know, everyone loved him.
- [25:32]
Albert Breer
You go back to the jets people, you go back to the Panthers, like, everyone loves Sam Darnold.
- [25:37]
John Middlekauff
Did that have lasting impacts on the Minnesota situation or is that overblown?
- [25:40]
Albert Breer
Yeah, I mean, I think, like, I think one thing you look at, again, like I talked about earlier, like, the almost like automatic, you have to pay. If you draft and develop a quarterback and it works out, you almost have to pay him at the top end of the market. There's no, like, B level quarterback contract. I think some teams look at, like, what happened with Sam and it's like, well, wait a second, they got him at like, half of what Dak cost, right? So dak is at 60. They got Sam after that at 30. And why, why they. Because he played really well for Minnesota. Why did they get him at that rate? Is it just because of perception? Is it just because he's not the former first round pick anymore because he's changed teams? And so I think there's that element of it, you know, what Baker, what Tampa wound up getting Baker for. We'll see what happens with Daniel Jones in Indianapolis. But I do think, like there's. If I'm a team, the way I'm looking at it and having. I think some teams are thinking this way, you know, it's more like, do I feel like I have to take a quarterback in the first round of the draft or if I'm 80% of the way there on a guy, but I maybe don't think he's going to be great? Am I better off having like a high end, high end, high end bridge, like a former first round pick come in and be that guy? I actually think, like, maybe the best example of it was Alex Smith, because when Andy Reid went and got Alex Smith, if you remember, they had the first overall pick that year in 13. And I remember there were people who thought like, oh, they're going to take Geno Smith.
- [27:07]
John Middlekauff
E.J.
- [27:07]
Albert Breer
manuel was the only first round quarterback that year. If they had forced it, what that would have looked like, instead of just taking Eric Fisher and then having Alex Smith, and what Alex Smith allowed for them was Alex Smith gave you a good level of quarterback play. You're a playoff team. That allowed you to establish a program. You were building your roster up and then you got to the point eventually where it was like you could just survey it. You weren't forced into a single year where it's like, yeah, we have to get them now. It was like, all right, we don't like this year's. We don't like, oh, that guy right there, Mahomes. Like, let's keep an eye on him. It gave them the flexibility to kind of cherry pick when they were going to go get their franchise quarterback. And I think there's a lot of power in that. I think the worst place you can be in is like you're pigeonholed into a single year. Like, if you're a team that needs a quarterback now and you don't and you don't have the first pick, you're not. The Raiders screwed. I mean, what do you do?
- [27:58]
John Middlekauff
Malik Willis.
- [27:59]
Greg Cosell
Yeah.
- [28:00]
Albert Breer
I mean, what do you do? And like, that's that, that's the thing is like, if you have like that bridge, you're not floating. Forced into that sort of position.
- [28:05]
John Middlekauff
Okay, last question. I know you like big picture league questions. I was talking to Howie yesterday just about how much this event has changed. And then last night had a few Tito sodas with some GMs and they said every interview, 90% of the kids are like, yeah, not really going to work out, not going to do anything. And they're just like the league. And again, they're not even mad at it. But, you know, you've talked about moving this event. This event's important for the interviews and obviously the coaches being here. The league likes all that stuff. But is the combine going to exist in like, 10 years?
- [28:34]
Albert Breer
I don't know. I mean, like, I think it will, but, like, I don't know what form it's going to exist in. I think. I think to some degree the league shot itself in the foot a little bit. If they had just left this for what it was and stopped trying to turn it into something it's not, you know, then I think you probably still have a really good thing here. I think with the element of just commodifying everything and like, trying to like, hey, how do we turn this new event or that new event? How do we, like, the players have agency now, you know what I mean? Like, and players are coming into the league. Like, these guys have already made money, you know what I mean? Like, so, like, how's a guy like that going to think, well, his. I think Marvin Harrison, you know, a couple years ago was the turning point. Marvin Harrison came in and he was in the first class of high school athletes to go into college and be nil as true freshmen.
- [29:27]
John Middlekauff
Right?
- [29:28]
Albert Breer
And Caleb was in that group.
- [29:29]
John Middlekauff
In high nil.
- [29:30]
Albert Breer
Right, Right. In high nil. And so he came into it and for three years now, he had been thinking about things through that lens. Look what I've done the last two years. Why am I going to go work out? Like, all I can do is hurt myself there, you know, why would I not want to do it in the most comfortable environment? Where is the proof that there's something. And at the time, he's a tough top five picks. So it's like, like, don't I have a lot more to lose than I have to gain if I run slow? So, yeah, I mean, like, like that. Like, like I have way more to lose than I have to gain. Like, the best thing I can do is just do everything in the most comfortable environment and confirm what people think of me and then be done with it. And so, like, I think it's a. Some of that stuff what you're talking about is a result of the players having more of a business mindset and having been through that, like, viewing themselves as like, no, I'm a commodity too and I have to treat my. I have to handle myself that way. And so, you know, I think it's looking at all these little things as part of the process with more scrutiny and again, like, it's not going to be the same for a guy who's going in the top 10 versus a fourth round. A fourth round pick should be doing everything here. The fourth round pick, like all 32 teams are here. This is my chance, you know, if I think I'm going to do well in the drills, do it here. Shows how competitive I am. If you're a top 10 pick, what motivation do you have other than like being a quote unquote competitor? Like, that's really it.
- [30:53]
John Middlekauff
You know, one more Quick League 1, the International Series. I've been saying forever you've talked a lot about this. I think in a couple years the league is going to sell like a 10:15 game package, like Thursday night all
- [31:04]
Albert Breer
over the Australia Sunday morning thing.
- [31:06]
John Middlekauff
Australia's cool. Like, and I get it. They love sports and it'll do cool. They gotta fly like 18 hours to Australia. And I get it. It's week, week one. It does feel like Roger, whenever he, like one of his lasting impacts, his last two raw, like growing the league finance. He thinks they're going international. Yeah, they've already gone, but like, we are going to be more of an international sport. Can that even work?
- [31:27]
Albert Breer
Yes, I think.
- [31:29]
John Middlekauff
Do teams like it?
- [31:30]
Albert Breer
I mean, I think they see if you look at like, I would urge people to look at like the Premier league viewership numbers, 750 million people watch that dwarf, like a regular season game, dwarf the NFL. And like, I think that's what they're looking at. Right. Like, and they've. Some of these teams have worked with some of the soccer teams. There's cross ownership there. The, the, you know, Jed, of course, is one, obviously. Stan Kroenke owns Arsenal, the Glazers in Tampa, they own Manchester United. So I, I think it got to a point early in Roger's tenure. This is a big picture thing early in Rogers tenure. So you're talking like his first year is 06, 0809 10. They sort of came to the conclusion like, we're killing it domestically so we can't grow up anymore, so we have to grow out. And that meant growing, adding inventory. How do you add inventory? You go back to LA with two teams you add all of these international markets, you go to 17 games, you expand the playoffs like football, all that Thursday Night Football, all that is is adding inventory for people to buy from them. And so like if this commissioner's charge, if Roger Goodell's charge was 25 billion in annual revenue and it looks like he's going to get there.
- [32:45]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, he is.
- [32:46]
Albert Breer
Like the way to do it was never sit on our hands and like do things the way they've always been done. Which is was plenty lucrative.
- [32:54]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [32:55]
Albert Breer
If his charge was for the new breed of owners was no, like you go and operate like a Fortune 500 company. You go and operate like one of the big tech companies. This is the way to do it.
- [33:07]
John Middlekauff
In five years, Brian Rolapp will take over a 50 billion dollar industry.
- [33:12]
Albert Breer
We'll see. We'll see.
- [33:13]
John Middlekauff
Thanks, Albert.
- [33:14]
Albert Breer
All right, thanks, John.
- [33:22]
John Middlekauff
Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Band Florida Sportsbook. I know it's tough, but with no football makes me sad. But like the song says, I bet I will survive. With Hard Rock Bet, there's always something. Every single night.
- [33:37]
Greg Cosell
Oops.
- [33:38]
John Middlekauff
Hockey. So much more. Plus all the great same game parlay, live betting and player prop options you're used to. And did you know that Hard Rock Bed is the official sports betting partner of the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic? So they know their basketball. Hard Rock Bet app is the only legal sports book whenever you're in Florida. So if you live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado and Michigan coming to states near you as well. If you haven't signed up for Hard Rock Bet yet, there's never been a better time. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets. Max 50 bucks. That's right. If you would have won a hundred bucks on your bet at you make $200 plus. Hard Rock vet offers new promos daily. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Payable and bonus bets. Not a cash offer offered by Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida, offered by Seminole hard Rock Digital LLC in all other states, you must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee and and Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida, call 1833 playwise in Indiana, if you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1809 with it. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. Cold days, big goals. No time to cook factor makes healthy eating easy. With fully prepared meals designed by dietitians and crafted by chefs. So eat well without planning or cooking. Listen as new parents, you don't have quite as much time to cook because you're just tired. You're trying to do a million things, and it's so easy to have already prepared meals that fit your goals and your schedule. But here's the key healthy eating, calorie management, and more protein. So they have over 100 rotating meals per week. Options include high protein calorie, smart Mediterranean, GLP1 support, and ready to Eat salad. It's always fresh, never frozen, ready to eat in about two minutes. So head to FactorMeals.com John50OFF and use code John50OFF to get 50% off and free breakfast free for a year. Eat like a pro this month with Factor New subscribers only. Varies by plan. One free breakfast item per box for one year while subscription is active.
- [36:17]
Podcast Host/Announcer
In 2023, a story gripped the UK evoking horror and disbelief.
- [36:22]
Albert Breer
The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is
- [36:27]
John Middlekauff
now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.
- [36:31]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.
- [36:38]
John Middlekauff
Lucy Letby has been found guilty.
- [36:40]
Podcast Host/Announcer
But what if we didn't get the whole story?
- [36:43]
Greg Cosell
The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.
- [36:45]
Podcast Host/Announcer
I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.
- [37:03]
Albert Breer
It'll cause so much harm at every
- [37:05]
Greg Cosell
single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.
- [37:08]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.
- [37:34]
Albert Breer
He pulls the gun, tells me to
- [37:36]
John Middlekauff
lie down on the ground.
- [37:38]
Podcast Host/Announcer
He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.
- [37:47]
Greg Cosell
I'm like, lord, this can't be real.
- [37:49]
John Middlekauff
I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth.
- [37:55]
Podcast Host/Announcer
For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.
- [38:03]
Albert Breer
I was a monster.
- [38:06]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:23]
John Middlekauff
Okay, let's dive into my Main man, Greg Cosell. Okay, here with. With Greg Cosell, as Colin likes to say, a football meat sandwich. And I've been talking to you over the last couple days. We got a lot going on. How many combines is this for you? What do you think?
- [38:40]
Greg Cosell
My first one was 1999.
- [38:42]
John Middlekauff
It's been a while.
- [38:42]
Greg Cosell
Been a while. 1999. There might have been, like, three national writers that were at the combine. That was it.
- [38:48]
John Middlekauff
Really pretty crazy. I was talking to someone the other day. Football, I mean, it's kind of sad. I mean, we still love the games and watch the games. You break them all down. It's become a lot of this. I mean, it's. It's a television show.
- [38:58]
Greg Cosell
Oh, it's an event.
- [38:59]
Albert Breer
Yeah.
- [39:00]
John Middlekauff
It's an event as much as it is the game. And this thing is a. Look at all these digital shows. I know that's the one thing you notice. It's not just no radio shows.
- [39:07]
Greg Cosell
These are digital shows. I know that means they got to see my face. That's tough.
- [39:14]
John Middlekauff
Where do we start the draft class?
- [39:17]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [39:17]
John Middlekauff
The quarterback, Fernando Mendoza. Thoughts?
- [39:20]
Greg Cosell
Well, you know, it's funny, obviously, I feel like the super bowl was just played yesterday. So I'm. I'm just getting started. Although what I normally do, John, is I get a baseline. Every summer. I'll watch maybe 120 guys that. That are likely to be in the draft the next year. You know how it is. 20, 25 guys drop out for whatever reason, but at least I get a baseline of guys. So right now I'm just getting into it because of my NFL work, I can't really start till maybe mid to late January. So I've done Mendoza in detail, and it's an interesting study. And you know this because, you know, this is what you do, too. It's an interesting quarterback study because we've reached a point where people just say a quarterback has great traits because he can throw it hard and he can run around. And then I keep thinking to myself, that's not really the key to playing quarterback in the NFL. So when people look at Mendoza, they don't see a guy that necessarily has a hose and can run around. So they're a little uncertain as to how he fits into being, you know, a quarterback prospect. But he kind of knows how to play the position. You know, to me, quarterback. And I was very fortunate in my career. Maybe the best thing that ever happened in my career was Bill Walsh taught me the quarterback position. So when I watch quarterbacks, I think about the subtlety of it. The detail, the nuance, the disciplined craft element of it. And, well, I'm not going to sit here and say Mendoza is a perfect prospect, but he plays it more like that than the guys who just, you know, have the hose and run around. And I'm not sure a lot of people really understand that that is a really important part of playing quarterback consistently at the NFL level.
- [41:01]
John Middlekauff
Bill Walsh would have liked Fernando Mendoza.
- [41:03]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, I think he would have.
- [41:04]
John Middlekauff
Can you go back to the Bill Walsh relationship, how that started?
- [41:07]
Greg Cosell
Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I've never heard that. I got assigned, you know, back in the day, you know, working at NFL Films, and I did a lot more documentary type films and I got assigned to do a Bill Walsh project. And. And my boss at the time said, you know, we want you to do it because, you know, you know, you love football and you go out and, you know, meet Bill Walsh and, you know, so I went out and.
- [41:30]
John Middlekauff
What year is this?
- [41:31]
Greg Cosell
Oh, he was not coaching in the NFL so
- [41:37]
John Middlekauff
early 90s maybe.
- [41:38]
Greg Cosell
Early 90s, maybe. Yeah, that sounds about right. So I go out and do, you know, do what I'm doing. In fact, I remember what we did. I went out and I brought film. It wasn't coaching tape because we didn't have it, but film of like 20 quarterbacks, you know, going back to like, Johnny Unitis. And basically it was just Bill put the camera on. He's watching, you know, on. On a. On a big screen, all these quarterbacks, maybe 20 quarterbacks, and just commenting on. Commenting on them, you know, just let them go free form, so we're done with it. And I don't know, for whatever reason, he must have saw something in me or liked me. And he basically said, you know, hey, let's go out to lunch. And I'm like talking to me, you know, and obviously I've got a cameraman there, a sound man from films and the whole deal, you know, and he. And I just went out to lunch and I mean, I didn't have much to say. He's just talking and I'm listening. But that happened like four or five times in my career where I was just with Bill Walsh like that. And it just, I mean, what I learned. So when I watch quarterbacks, I think about doing it the right way on every play. I don't think in terms of, man, he can run around now. We know the game's evolved and changed and, you know, defenses have gotten a little more detail, A lot more detail. They do a lot of different, you know, we know all that so the element of movement can be a factor, you know, but obviously you can be great without it. I mean, look at Tom Brady, you know, he didn't have to run around to be great. But the point is, is that that's what I think about when I watch quarterbacks. I think about playing the position the absolute right way on every snap, you know? You know this. Coaches don't roll the ball out and say, hey, let's run around today and see what happens. You know, it's. Everything is detailed.
- [43:29]
John Middlekauff
I think if we. When I Super bowl week, we went to this like, event for the 1989 49ers, right. And on stage it was Joe, Ronnie, Jonathan Taylor, who's actually sneaky, very underrated. The plays he would make. Jonathan Taylor could fly. Harris Barton, you're talking.
- [43:45]
Greg Cosell
No, you're talking about the receiver. John Taylor.
- [43:47]
John Middlekauff
John Taylor. John Taylor. And he made some plays.
- [43:50]
Albert Breer
They were.
- [43:51]
John Middlekauff
Kept talking like he had those two
- [43:52]
Greg Cosell
99 yard touchdowns against the Rams.
- [43:55]
John Middlekauff
Just because he played with Jerry Rice got overshadowed a little bit. You're watching him fly. You're like this guy in this league today, incredible. But I think let's just take like three of the best five quarterbacks of all time. Joe, Tom, Peyton, they couldn't. Joe was more, much more athletic than.
- [44:10]
Greg Cosell
Joe had athletic feet, but he wasn't a runaround guy.
- [44:12]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, it was accuracy, timing, understanding, knowing, like it's okay to dump the ball.
- [44:17]
Greg Cosell
That's the quarterback position.
- [44:18]
John Middlekauff
Exactly.
- [44:19]
Albert Breer
Yeah.
- [44:19]
John Middlekauff
Has that been lost, you think, in the NFL? A little bit.
- [44:21]
Greg Cosell
I don't think it's been lost among coaches. I think it's been lost the way that media people and fans talk about it, but it's not lost amongst coaches.
- [44:31]
John Middlekauff
So like the two Super Bowls that Patrick won a couple years ago, in those two years where their team wasn't as explosive as like the 19 I look because I was doing a segment.
- [44:41]
Greg Cosell
He threw.
- [44:42]
John Middlekauff
He had one turnover in those seven playoff games. I bet if you went back and watched, he was closer to a game manager and they hate that term. But just like managing the game, making sure I don't screw up.
- [44:52]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [44:52]
John Middlekauff
They beat the Ravens, they scored 17 points.
- [44:54]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [44:55]
John Middlekauff
I bet Bill Walsh would have been like, that's the best that kid's ever played in those seven games playing. Not the bombs to Tyree Kill. No, but we love the bombs to Tyree Kill.
- [45:03]
Greg Cosell
Everybody loves that. Yeah, but I'm just saying that's the
- [45:06]
John Middlekauff
position to win the game at the biggest games that are in the late, you know, 17 to 19 the efficiency
- [45:11]
Greg Cosell
of the position comes from executing the subtleties of the position. Play in and play out. Yeah, that's where the efficiency comes from. You know, and, you know, obviously, look who thought. Walsh thought Montana was a great prospect, and not many others did at the time, because he saw it in a different way. You know, he saw. He wasn't worried about arm strength or what we now call today, arm talent. You know, he wasn't worried about that. He was worried about the ability to play within timing, throw the ball accurately. And accurately meant precise ball location, not just, you know, where do you throw it? Not just, oh, I'm throwing it to you, but where do you.
- [45:54]
John Middlekauff
You watch these documentaries on the Niners that he would, like, make them redo it if Joe or Steve was off by, like, a foot.
- [46:00]
Greg Cosell
It's funny you say that, because one of the things I did with Walsh, of the times you would talk, is we went out and he brought out after they'd retired, Joe, Jerry Rice and Roger Craig, and we're doing a piece, you know, I'm out there, and he's back coaching. Like, Montana would make a throw, and you go, no, Joe, come on, we're doing that again. That ball. I mean, he was coaching him after, you know, they were all retired. You know, like, what would Bill Walsh
- [46:23]
John Middlekauff
say about, like, Caleb Williams, who makes incredible plays in these biggest moments, but it's pretty inefficient a lot of these games.
- [46:29]
Greg Cosell
He would work every single day on his lower half, because his lower half can be all over the place, as you probably know. Yeah. And he would work every single day on that because, you know, he just misses too many routine throws. He can make special plays, and obviously, his arm, in terms of the way the ball comes out of his hand, is special, but, you know, he just misses too many routine throws.
- [46:51]
John Middlekauff
Yeah. To me, you know, I would imagine Ben Johnson, the Bears, the layups, the basic stuff, because if he can do that, he can be a really good player.
- [46:58]
Greg Cosell
Right, Right.
- [46:58]
John Middlekauff
And that, to me, all offseason, the special down, he can do that in his sleep.
- [47:03]
Albert Breer
It's like, hey, a wheel route.
- [47:04]
John Middlekauff
You gotta hit this guy in stride. You know, you gotta be on time. He can do that, but can you coach that up?
- [47:09]
Greg Cosell
Right. It's a really hard balance. I talked to a coach yesterday, and, you know, because I'm always fascinated by how you coach the quarterbacks that have the ability to make special improvisational plays, because on the one hand, you don't want to tell a guy never to do that, but on the Other hand, those guys tend to. To leave throws on the field because they will leave the pocket too early because that's just the way they feel innately.
- [47:35]
John Middlekauff
Russell Wilson started doing that. Yeah, yeah, he couldn't function.
- [47:37]
Greg Cosell
Now his is a little different because of his size, but even Mahomes, Josh Allen, those guys will leave throws on the field within the structure of that particular pass design because for whatever reason, that's just who they are. So, you know, my guess is you don't want to tell them never to do that.
- [47:56]
Podcast Host/Announcer
But.
- [47:56]
Greg Cosell
But on the other hand, if, you know, these coaches, as, you know, work a lot, and if they design it and it's there and it's clean, you want the guy to throw the ball.
- [48:05]
John Middlekauff
Do you think that's why some of those guys with the Walsh roots, even if it's indirect, like, you know, Shanahan or, you know, Andy didn't work for Walsh, but he worked for homegrown.
- [48:15]
Greg Cosell
Right, right.
- [48:15]
John Middlekauff
You know, Alex Smith, you see the guys that Shanahan likes, the Kubiax, Mike Shanahan, who I don't think worked for Walsh, but work for Seaford would.
- [48:22]
Greg Cosell
Right, right, right.
- [48:23]
John Middlekauff
They can be cool with Jake Plummer or, you know, they like Kirk Cousins, like, they value things that go back to those roots at the core of
- [48:31]
Greg Cosell
their offense, as you probably know. You know, the way it is, let's say with Kyle Shanahan, who obviously is, you know, comes from his dad and comes down that tree, maybe it's not the pure Bill Walsh, but it's, you know, more that school. Let's say for those coaches, the star is the play caller. You know, in Kyle's offense, he's the star.
- [48:55]
John Middlekauff
He's the poster child of the team.
- [48:56]
Greg Cosell
Right. Whereas let's say a Josh McDaniels offense, he's giving the quarterback all the answers to the test. And the quarterback has to figure out which answers apply based on a given play call and what he sees from the defense. Whereas with Kyle, that's not the case at all. He's the quarterback, as you know, he doesn't. The quarterback doesn't do anything. He's not calling the protections. He's not changing plays. Now, granted, if he sees maybe an obvious blitz, he'd flip it or something. Yeah, yeah, but he's not really doing a lot. You know that.
- [49:27]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [49:28]
Greg Cosell
The quarterback is the executor of the play caller's play.
- [49:32]
John Middlekauff
Kyle has said that he And Cousins has talked about this. Cousins fought for it. He gave him the opportunity to do it. And like the next Day cousins. Like that's crazy. I have like seven things on my plan. You take it back. Right, right, right. And there's only so many Peyton Mannings or Brady's who can do it at that high level.
- [49:48]
Greg Cosell
Correct.
- [49:49]
John Middlekauff
And that's what makes the position so crazy. Like, let's just say you flip Drake May and Brock Purdy. I think Drake made probably pretty good for Kyle. Right.
- [49:55]
Greg Cosell
I would agree.
- [49:56]
John Middlekauff
But the Purdy thing, the way they're playing, it would not probably look very good. Right.
- [49:59]
Greg Cosell
I, I bet Purdy could do it, you know, once he got.
- [50:02]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, but I just mean like just you carry the offense you play on, you would be a lot.
- [50:06]
Greg Cosell
Well right now if Purdy all of a sudden was dropped into a Josh McDaniels offense, he'd be lost because that's not the way he's been coached to play the game.
- [50:15]
John Middlekauff
Yeah. What's your take on Purdy? Because he's a pretty polarizing player.
- [50:19]
Greg Cosell
I know. And I don't know why I like.
- [50:21]
John Middlekauff
Walsh would have liked him.
- [50:22]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, I like Purdy. You know, again, you know, people like Liss and you know, is he the top five? I don't get into that. I think he can execute Kyle's offense at a pretty high level.
- [50:32]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [50:33]
Greg Cosell
And I think that's, that's what the 49ers want. You know, he can execute it at a pretty high level.
- [50:38]
John Middlekauff
I guess I didn't quite understand until I got here. You know, Sean Manion goes back to Oregon State. I mean he's got like pro style roots as a player.
- [50:48]
Greg Cosell
Right, right.
- [50:49]
John Middlekauff
As a coach.
- [50:49]
Greg Cosell
Right. That.
- [50:50]
John Middlekauff
That's what they're implementing with the Eagles. So the idea you get rid of Stoutland, who's not that type of run game guy, that they are going to be a version of the Kyle Shanahan offense with Jalen Hurts. Is that the way you take it as well?
- [51:04]
Greg Cosell
That's what it sure seems like because of the people they brought in to coach on offense. So in their mind they must believe that Jalen Hurts can do it. I'm not going to sit here and say he can or can't. You know, they think he can. I would say that the way Jalen has played up to this point in his career, that's not stylistically how he's played. You know, he hasn't been a true timing rhythm guy. So they must feel he can do it because that's what they've committed to. That's what their offense is going to be. Now the question is, did they bring. Did they change that because of the run game. Because that run game in that offense is really good with, you know, now you're going to see a lot more motions. You're going to see a lot more pre snap movement. You're going to see a lot of things that help the run game because you know that pre snap movement motions really help the run game as well. You know, in many ways they help the run game even more.
- [52:00]
John Middlekauff
What did you see when you were breaking down Jalen this year? The struggles came from. I mean, I don't know if it ended up this way, but at one point in time in December, they led the league in three and outs in that town. That's embarrassing. I know that can't happen, not with those players.
- [52:14]
Greg Cosell
You know, I don't think to me Jalen was any different, different, you know, than he's always been. I mean, you know, keep in mind, when they won the super bowl, there were nine or 10 games that year where he didn't throw for 200 yards. They're not a passing team. I mean, they had the historic running season by Barkley and the number one defense in the league and Jalen never turned it over. And they were phenomenal on fourth down. So they were a sense of four down offense. If they got past midfield and it became fourth or let's say four and less, three and less, they were going for it every time and they would convert. Because that's where Jalen's mobility became a huge factor. Even if he didn't run, just, you know, getting him out of the pocket, I mean, scrambling around, you know, so, you know, they were not a passing team. So I didn't, I don't think he was necessarily any different. Their run game was terrible, relatively speaking. Their O line was bad. So, you know, the question becomes, can Jalen hurts? And this is a tough question because the reality is, and this is the answer you get, and you can't argue it is. They've been in two of the last four Super Bowls. He's played well in both. He was the MVP in one. And you know, so when people say that, what do you say?
- [53:27]
John Middlekauff
Nothing. He says, I got a ring and I got a lot of money.
- [53:29]
Greg Cosell
Exactly. And I'm sorry, what do you say? Right, what do you say?
- [53:32]
John Middlekauff
But you know, the Philly and I know Howie.
- [53:34]
Greg Cosell
Yeah.
- [53:35]
John Middlekauff
They like winning games now. Like super bowl was a couple years ago and it's like, can he win games? You look in that conference.
- [53:41]
Greg Cosell
Well, that's why they made the change. Obviously they think that this Change will be.
- [53:46]
John Middlekauff
You can't lose that Niner team. Salah rolled out me, you and seven of us. I know that's got to be one of the worst losses in Eagles history. When you look at the talent gap, I would agree.
- [53:54]
Greg Cosell
And I'm sure that's why major changes were made.
- [53:58]
John Middlekauff
So to me, like specifically with him, he's a dual threat quarterback who no longer wants to run.
- [54:06]
Greg Cosell
It seems so, Yeah. I mean, again, we're not in the building. I don't know if he tells the coach.
- [54:10]
John Middlekauff
I just. I'm just saying when you watch him, they don't call run plays.
- [54:12]
Greg Cosell
No, they don't.
- [54:13]
John Middlekauff
The Niners could have been gashed by. He's a great runner. Like his. I've always said I thought he was going to be a running back out of college because I thought he was a bad college as a prospect.
- [54:21]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [54:22]
John Middlekauff
But I felt like this guy could be like Frank Gore because his natural feel.
- [54:25]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [54:25]
John Middlekauff
He's not like a La Lamar speed guy, but he clearly just. I don't really want to do it. They had one run in that Niner game. I think they got called back. Like, you could do this every play for like 30 yards.
- [54:33]
Greg Cosell
Yeah. And. And by the way, in 2022 when they went to the super bowl and lost to the Chiefs, that run stuff, the design run, he averaged like 10 carries a game was a huge part of their offense. Huge part. But again, you know, I. I don't know. I don't know if he tells the coaches, I don't want to run. I don't know the answer to that. But it'll be. That's going to be. One of the most interesting things to watch is how that offense works, you know, which is obviously a totally new offense.
- [55:07]
John Middlekauff
Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Band Florida Sportsbook. I know it's tough with no football. Makes me sad, but like the song says, I bet I will survive with Hard Rock Bet, there's always something every single night. Hoops, hockey, so much more. Plus all the great same game parlay, live betting and player prop options you're used to. And did you know that Hard Rock Bet is the official sports betting partner of the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic, so they know their basketball. Hard Rock Fed app is the only legal sportsbook whenever you're in Florida. So if you live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado and Michigan coming to states near you as well. If you haven't signed up for Hard Rock Bet yet, there's never been a better time. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets. Max 50 bucks. That's right. If you would have won a hundred bucks on your bet, you make 200 plus. Hard Rock vet offers new promos daily. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Payable and bonus bets. Not a cash offer. Offered by Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida. Offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC in all other states. You must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee and Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida? Call 1-833-PLAY-WISE in Indiana. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it gambling problem. Call 1-800- Gambler Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia in 2023, a
- [56:55]
Podcast Host/Announcer
story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.
- [56:59]
Albert Breer
The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.
- [57:08]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.
- [57:15]
John Middlekauff
Lucy Letby has been found guilty.
- [57:17]
Podcast Host/Announcer
But what if we didn't get the whole story?
- [57:20]
Greg Cosell
The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.
- [57:23]
Podcast Host/Announcer
I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.
- [57:40]
Albert Breer
It'll cause so much harm at every
- [57:42]
Greg Cosell
single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.
- [57:45]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.
- [58:11]
Albert Breer
He pulls the gun, tells me to
- [58:14]
John Middlekauff
lie down on the ground.
- [58:15]
Podcast Host/Announcer
He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.
- [58:24]
Greg Cosell
I'm like, lord, this can't be real.
- [58:26]
John Middlekauff
I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth.
- [58:32]
Podcast Host/Announcer
For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.
- [58:41]
Albert Breer
I was a monster.
- [58:43]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real?
- [58:57]
Albert Breer
If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you Have.
- [59:00]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?
- [59:03]
Greg Cosell
When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.
- [59:07]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?
- [59:10]
John Middlekauff
I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.
- [59:14]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Nlp, AKA Neuro linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.
- [59:30]
John Middlekauff
It's about engineering consciousness.
- [59:32]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work.
- [59:50]
John Middlekauff
This is wild.
- [59:51]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [60:03]
John Middlekauff
You know, for a long time I remember like when I first got in the NFL in like 2010, 11, people were like, that knew were like, Philip Rivers, one of the best quarterbacks in the league. I love Philip Rivers, you know, and anytime. And again, this gets back to the Jalen things, like, well, I got a ring. I'm one of the best players. Like, well, this guy, people think this guy's better. Right. We all kind of think, you know, Mahomes, even though he didn't play that well last year.
- [60:23]
Greg Cosell
Right, right.
- [60:24]
John Middlekauff
But his resume speaks for itself.
- [60:25]
Greg Cosell
No question.
- [60:26]
John Middlekauff
Lamar and Josh's resume speak for themselves. Herbert's a pretty polarizing player because the playoff games, I, I don't know where you stand. I mean, I think he played for my team any day of the week.
- [60:36]
Greg Cosell
I agree with you. And I think most people in the league would tell you that he's incredibly gifted and that he's a really good player. You know, look, this year, I mean, he played behind arguably the worst offensive line of football. I mean, they were playing backups to backups to backups. I mean, you know, so.
- [60:53]
John Middlekauff
And he had a broken hand.
- [60:54]
Greg Cosell
I know. So we'll see. I mean, but yeah, he's. You talk to people in the league they don't have any issue with.
- [61:00]
John Middlekauff
With Justin Herbert, I, I think one guy who's really impressed me the last couple years and McCarthy deserves credit for this, is he again, another guy, playoffs that he had a three year stretch where he just. Two of the games against the Niners, he was not good. But Dax really become a really good player.
- [61:13]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:14]
John Middlekauff
And if they do a good enough job, like if the version of he's at right now was on some of those teams, like three years ago.
- [61:19]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [61:20]
John Middlekauff
They would be a major factor again if he just played one. The play I thought the year they lost the Niners in the second round, if he had just played like he had been playing, they could have won the Super Bowl. Their defense was awesome. I've been impressed with Dak's, like, growth as a player.
- [61:32]
Greg Cosell
But the point is, what you're talking about is what we were talking about initially about the quarterback position. Because Dak is. Well, he's not a statue. He's a pocket quarterback now.
- [61:41]
John Middlekauff
He doesn't move like he used to.
- [61:42]
Greg Cosell
No. So, I mean, why has he become a really good quarterback? Because he executes the nuances of the position. He plays the position the. At a high level from the pocket. Yeah. I mean, it's.
- [61:54]
John Middlekauff
Bill Walsh would like this version of Dak.
- [61:56]
Albert Breer
Without question.
- [61:57]
Greg Cosell
Without question. You know, it's. And as you know, in college now there's. Mendoza is a little bit of an aberration, but college is not sending a lot of, like, true pocket quarterbacks to the NFL.
- [62:11]
Albert Breer
No.
- [62:12]
Greg Cosell
Because, you know, Mendoza. And maybe this is an easy comparison, and it's not an example, exact one, but Mendoza would be more like the Jared Goffs of the world. He's not a runaround guy. Now, can he run in a straight line? If he has to, yeah. But he's not a playmaker.
- [62:27]
John Middlekauff
He's not like Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson.
- [62:29]
Greg Cosell
No, he's not a playmaker. Yeah.
- [62:30]
John Middlekauff
My question is, not that long ago, you just looked around the league. Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, they all kind of look the same, you know, six, four to six. Six.
- [62:39]
Greg Cosell
Yeah.
- [62:40]
John Middlekauff
Where did that human being go? I know he's not playing college or high school football. No. Because they have to still exist on this planet.
- [62:46]
Greg Cosell
Because what's happened now is it's like, look, I'm older than you, so when I grew up in my formative years, in, let's say, the late 60s, early 70s, the two biggest sports in America were baseball and boxing. So where did the best athlete in baseball play? Shortstop. So now what's happening is the best athlete is playing quarterback. So now you're getting guys that are great athletes, so they can run, they can move. Maybe they have big arms. I mean, I would think a good example of that. You follow college football, right?
- [63:16]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [63:17]
Greg Cosell
Would probably be the Texas A and M kid. Yeah.
- [63:19]
John Middlekauff
Marcel Reed.
- [63:20]
Greg Cosell
Yeah. You know. You know, really good athlete, pretty explosive mover, big arm. You know, I don't I haven't studied him. I don't know if he's a good quarterback or not. But I mean, those are the kinds of players that now have become quarterbacks. So. And those guys, because they can run, you know, teams want to win. So whether you're in high school or college, the coach wants to win, so they use what he has, which is the ability to move and run.
- [63:46]
John Middlekauff
I think I read an article from like Bruce Feldman coaches because now we got a lot. Because the money's so big in college, coaches kind of bounce back and forth. And one thing I think I read is, you know, why some guys that bounce from the NFL to college and it's a little difficult for them because in the pros as a defensive coordinator, you defend the running back.
- [64:06]
Greg Cosell
Right.
- [64:06]
John Middlekauff
And the pass game. But in college you defend the running quarterback, the running back and the pass game. It's a huge element of it, which, well, and don't forget Lamar Jackson, like five years. Most people don't run that level offense in the NFL.
- [64:18]
Greg Cosell
The other thing about college, which makes it different and you know, this is the hash marks. The wide side of the field in college is like the Grand Canyon. So. So I mean you can do a lot of things to the wide side of the field that are incredibly difficult to defend. There's just too much space. Yeah, the NFL's not like that.
- [64:35]
John Middlekauff
No, it's not. It's. It's tighter.
- [64:36]
Greg Cosell
Yeah.
- [64:38]
John Middlekauff
Before I get you out of here, this draft class, I mean you, you watch general amount, especially the draft guys doesn't feel like a woo.
- [64:45]
Greg Cosell
No.
- [64:46]
John Middlekauff
Not a lot of panay souls. Jamar chases Joe Walls. No other non core.
- [64:51]
Greg Cosell
I think like for the receipt.
- [64:52]
John Middlekauff
Are the Chiefs at nine going to feel pretty good? They're going to get as good of a player as a team at four. Like what's the difference? That's my point is that it's not like there is like, oh, Joe Alton goes and there's a huge dropout. Like what's the difference?
- [65:02]
Greg Cosell
Well, you know how the draft works normally there's probably in a normal year, 15 to 18 players that have true first round grades.
- [65:10]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [65:11]
Greg Cosell
I would bet this year there's 10.
- [65:13]
John Middlekauff
Yeah.
- [65:13]
Greg Cosell
And I think the receiver group, I've done 12 receivers I'm done with. I would bet that those 12 receivers, I'm not done with receivers I've done with those 12. I would bet that those 12 are going to be in the eye of the beholder. You know, it depends on the guy and how you think he Fits in your scheme because I don't think there's a receiver. And this is my. What I feel based on the tape study of these 12 guys, I don't think there's a receiver. You're going to go, wow, I got to have that guy. He can do anything.
- [65:42]
John Middlekauff
You're not big on the USC guy, You know, relative to where you see him.
- [65:48]
Greg Cosell
Yeah. I mean, again, you know, and I know, I know what you mean by saying you're not big. I. I think relative to the. I think that he's. He's going to probably be 5'11,195. He's not a super athlete. He's not truly explosive. Yes, he's very competitive. The guy, when I finished watching him who came to my mind was Shakir. And you know, I know fourth round pick, I think, who's been in fifth round out of Boise. Yeah. Who's been a nice player, by the way.
- [66:18]
John Middlekauff
Good. Really good.
- [66:18]
Albert Breer
Yeah.
- [66:19]
Greg Cosell
And it's really good run after catch. And that's who Lemon kind of reminded me of. Now, I know some people are talking him up. I mean, I saw someone compare him to Malik neighbors and I'm thinking, come on.
- [66:33]
John Middlekauff
No Malik neighbors, different animals.
- [66:36]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, exactly.
- [66:36]
John Middlekauff
I mean, Malik Nabors of talent wise.
- [66:38]
Greg Cosell
And by the way, the one thing about receivers, as you well know, is because teams throw the ball and depending on the scheme and a guy could come in the league and catch. Lemon could go to a team and catch 80 balls. And people say he's great, you know, and I have no problem with that. But just as an evaluation of the player and who he is, he's not a top 10 pick in a draft, but he might be.
- [67:01]
John Middlekauff
Will you, Shakira? I was with some Lions people last night. Not anyone that's for the team, but people that cover the team. And we were talking about Amon Ra. These guys were all not drafted in the first round.
- [67:13]
Greg Cosell
You know, St. Brown was the fourth round.
- [67:14]
John Middlekauff
Samuel was the second round.
- [67:15]
Greg Cosell
Right, right.
- [67:16]
John Middlekauff
You know, you can get these physical guys historically later and then it depends.
- [67:19]
Greg Cosell
Look, Monroe, St. Brown taking nothing away from him because I understand that as far as competitiveness and all that, he's off the charts. But he played in a Ben Johnson offense that is maybe the best schemed pass game in the NFL in terms of again, zone, in terms of spacing of routes, how it all works together, you know, the details of how you put together the pass game. He's really good, though.
- [67:45]
John Middlekauff
Yeah. No, I'm saying Ben.
- [67:46]
Greg Cosell
Ben is really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So again, we're not. I'm not taking anything away from on Ross St. Brown. I'm not with him every day. I mean, he's probably great in so many ways, but if you just look at like pure talent, you're not going to say that he's Jefferson or Chase.
- [68:04]
John Middlekauff
What about Puka?
- [68:05]
Greg Cosell
Puka is a fascinating guy. He's big, he's physical.
- [68:12]
John Middlekauff
Have you ever seen a player like him?
- [68:15]
Greg Cosell
I mean, I guess on a certain level. And maybe I'm nuts. Deebo, you know, at his best was similar. Wouldn't you say similar?
- [68:23]
John Middlekauff
Just because guys just fall off of him.
- [68:25]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [68:26]
John Middlekauff
He's like runs through like Adrian Peterson or something.
- [68:28]
Greg Cosell
But Puka, I mean, he's.
- [68:29]
John Middlekauff
Puka's a better route runner probably.
- [68:31]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, yeah. He's a fascinating guy. I mean, he's turned into a great, great receiver.
- [68:35]
John Middlekauff
I think the problem. I'll get you out of here on this. On players like that, you know, to invest into how much receivers cost, it's how long is their shelf life.
- [68:44]
Greg Cosell
Right, right, right.
- [68:44]
John Middlekauff
Because you go, you look at some of the outside guys, you know, like jsn, he gonna be able to play for a long time with his skill set. You look at Deebo, it just ended pretty quickly. And you know, Puka in the dominant fashion, like, he's gonna be able to maintain this for seven straight years. Like, I don't know.
- [68:59]
Greg Cosell
I mean, don't forget Puka. He's great, but I mean, he's a physical player.
- [69:02]
John Middlekauff
That's what I'm saying.
- [69:03]
Greg Cosell
Yeah.
- [69:03]
John Middlekauff
I mean, and he plays as, you know what off.
- [69:04]
Greg Cosell
I know.
- [69:05]
John Middlekauff
How long can you maintain playing at 100% breaking tackles? I mean, the year he had, the last couple years is like, Jesus.
- [69:12]
Greg Cosell
No, he's. He's, he's better than I thought.
- [69:14]
John Middlekauff
He changed the Rams.
- [69:15]
Greg Cosell
Yeah, he's better than I thought he'd be. I mean, no question. He's probably better than pretty much everybody thought he'd be. Yeah.
- [69:20]
John Middlekauff
McVeigh included.
- [69:21]
Greg Cosell
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [69:23]
John Middlekauff
Greg, I appreciate you. And enjoy the rest of Combine.
- [69:26]
Greg Cosell
All right. Appreciate it. Thanks.
- [69:27]
John Middlekauff
Thank you. The volume.
- [69:35]
Albert Breer
Everyone deserves to be connected.
- [69:37]
John Middlekauff
That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and C save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out.
- [69:47]
Albert Breer
Check the math.
- [69:48]
John Middlekauff
@t mobile.com switch and now T Mobile
- [69:52]
Albert Breer
is in US cellular stores.
- [69:55]
Greg Cosell
Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits plan features in Texas.
- [69:59]
Albert Breer
And fees vary.
- [69:59]
Greg Cosell
Savings with three plus lines Include third
- [70:01]
John Middlekauff
line free via monthly bill credits.
- [70:02]
Greg Cosell
Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.
- [70:05]
Albert Breer
On June 11, 1998, a deputy from
- [70:07]
John Middlekauff
the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.
- [70:11]
Greg Cosell
Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury him, what are they gonna do to me?
- [70:15]
Podcast Host/Announcer
What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.
- [70:27]
John Middlekauff
Listen to Valley of shadows on the
- [70:28]
Podcast Host/Announcer
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had had his own rules.
- [70:41]
Greg Cosell
Segregation in the day, integration at night. It was like stepping in another world.
- [70:47]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Was he a businessman? A criminal? A hero?
- [70:51]
Greg Cosell
Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.
- [70:56]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This season on Dear Chelsea, with me, Chelsea Handler. We've got some incredible guests, like Kumail Nanjiani. Let's start with your ca. How is she?
- [71:13]
Albert Breer
She is not with us anymore.
- [71:15]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Great, great, great. Way to start. Maybe you will cry. Ross Matthews. You know what kids always say to me? Are you a boy or a girl? Oh, my God. All the time. I know. So I try to butch it up for kids so they're not confused. Yeah, but you're butching it up. It's basically like an angry woman. Doris Day, right? No, I turn into Bea Arthur. Listen to these episodes of Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.