← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Massive Mailbag, Are the Packers for REAL, What's the future for the 49ers
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Podcast Host
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Dan Orlovsky
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Dan Orlovsky
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Podcast Host
The volume.
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Dan Orlovsky
Okay. You know, I thought I'd do a little middle cop mailbag because we skip one during the middle of the week, and I just had a bunch of questions. And then once the weekend, like, Saturday, Sunday comes, they kind of get outdated once everyone plays. So I'm recording this on Thursday afternoon right before the Packer Washington game, which hopefully is a fantastic competition between two teams. But let's just bang out, you know, 30 minutes worth of questions, and then we will get on with our day. We will start with Aaron, longtime listener. Message for the bag. Not a Vikings fan, but JJ looks like he can absolutely sling that pill. What do you think of his first game? You know, I think you learn more about a guy. I mean, this is pretty evident when they struggled and when they're having success. Any player, when it's going well, looks good, right? I mean, there have been a lot of guys in the history of pro sports that had good weeks, that had good months, but, like, having a long career obviously is very difficult. But in that individual moment, which is the only 60 minutes of NFL football in the regular season the kid had ever played, I don't remember seeing a guy looks. Usually when you're having a game that catastrophic, right? So it's one thing you throw a pick or like last year, Lamar Jackson, the playoffs, had the bad interception, then he had the fumble. Like, he has so many games that, like, over the course, you always feel like it's going to kind of work its way out. Now in the playoffs, been a little different. But he was excellent in the second half, so it wasn't really that shocking. It wasn't shocking at all. Right. I think with jj, all we could go off of is like, is this guy bad? Is he completely overwhelmed? And you're like, well, it's only one game. I love when people do that. Like, don't overreact, Overreact. Like, we have one game to go off. What are we supposed to talk about? That's what we talk about, what we just witnessed. And there was no way that every human being, including Kevin o', Connell, it had to cross his mind on the sideline. Are we going to have to call Kirk Cousins in, like, three weeks? Because our team's really good. We're going to have Daresaw coming back, you know, Jordan Addison coming back. I mean, Those are high end players. We have arguably the best receiver in the league. We have an excellent defense with an excellent defensive coordinator. And then he turned into just a great player. I mean, there's no way around it. He. The eye test, the ball placement, the ball, the arm strength, clearly the mobility. But the one thing you never know about a player, especially at quarterback, in my experience, you know, being around football and watching football extremely closely is the intangible level of mental and physical toughness. And physical toughness. Some of these guys play in the NF or in college. And if you play at the right program, you're not getting hit that often. And then you come to the pros and even if you're on a good team, a lot of good teams, offensive lines are hit or miss, they start getting peppered. So can you physically handle it? And usually when you're physically going through it mentally, do you break? And again, one game on the road against the Bears, who look like they have a pretty good defense, whenever I see someone like the defense, let them know the defense had to be gassed. Had to be gassed. So I'm impressed. Now can he go on to have like rookie of the year type season? Long way to go. And I, technically, I know he's not a rookie, but you know, in the NBA, which I think the NFL should, maybe they did change that rule. You know, remember Blake Griffin? Some guys have hurt their knees and then played the second year. I think he should be considered a rookie. Now you could argue it's a little advantage because mentally he was in the, in the room. But I don't know. I mean, when you have multiple knee surgeries and don't play a snap. So yeah, I mean, excellent performance. Big Packer fan. With Ed Policy taking over and no owner, do you think the packers could be the team of the future? With his leadership spent big and draft. And draft. Well, congrats on everything. I would say you just. Nothing's going to change, right. I'm recording this before the game, but unless something catastrophic happened, they're going to be really good this year and they've been really good for 30 years. I don't think anything's going to change. Now the margin for error of winning playoff games, winning the NFC championship, where they went to a lot, you know, with Aaron and couldn't get over the hump. What they went to one Super Bowl, I think they lost. Was it four NFC championship games. They lost to the Falcons, they lost to the 49ers, they lost to Tampa, and they lost to Seattle. So I think there's a big difference. The way we look at this team historically. If you went, hey, Farver, went to a couple Super Bowls, one, one, let's say Rogers had won one of those NFC championship games and won a second Super bowl, you'd be like, hell, they've won three Super Bowls over the last, you know, 30 plus years. They're winning one a year or one every 10 years on average. But over the course they're making the playoffs all the time. I think we'd look at them a little differently. I mean, they've only been one to one super bowl and what I consider the Internet era, which is starting, you know, 99, 2000. So I'm bullish on the franchise, but I don't look at them much differently with Ed Policy than you did or were with Murphy. I think the same infrastructure, the same mindset of the GM has a lot of juice. You know, obviously offensive, innovative coaches and a well run operation. It's a very, very impressive operation. There really is no way around it. I know they don't win Super Bowls at the same clip as some of these other franchises, but I mean, think how many teams in the NFL would sign up for what they got cooking? Massive Rams fan, season ticket holder Cronky needs you guys because he spent about $8 billion on that stadium. I fly to all the home games from San Francisco and have been doing that since McVay was hired. I can't relate to you though. I have a lot of respect and admire you to be that passionate about something. And it's one thing like if you are a season ticket holder to a major college or an NFL team and you live within, I'd even say hour and a half, two hours, like a drivable distance when you have to go to the airport, even though it's a short flight, 45 hour, you know, if you, depending if you're coming from San Jose or San Francisco, that takes, that takes some effort. Even if it's a day trip, which is very possible if you got the 130 kickoffs, fly in the morning, go to the game, fly back at night. I've actually done that before, but I have a lot of respect for you. I mean that's. Your fandom is, is pretty impressive. Do you think the Rams defense, especially their defensive line, isn't getting enough love? They rarely get talked about and haven't allowed more than 10 points in five of their last seven games. Everyone rightfully talks about McVeigh and the offense, but the defense Looks like it's heading toward an elite status. I would say this. I saw a stat that they hit C.J. stroud on like over 40% of his drop backs. And I think hit him like either seven or eight times. And I know they sacked him three times. The defensive line is a great defensive line, can make a defense, obviously a Hall of Fame defense. You got to be good at every level. You got to have a middle linebacker, you got to have defensive backs. But if you just have an elite defensive line, it's going to be hard for your defense to not be good. It really is, right? I don't care how many holes or weaknesses or replaceable players you have on the back, six or seven, if you have an elite pass rush, dominant run players, you're just going to be good. And then if I give you, of the seven guys, let's say three of them are really good starters, like you can. Most teams don't have multiple good corners. If you got one good corner and you can mix and match with some safety help and your linebackers are solid, going to be a really good defense. It's crazy how some of these offensive coaches, and I think this has to do with the investing in the quarterback. Once you pay the quarterback 40, 50, $60 million, you got to draft well on defense. And if you do that, like your defense is going to be a little under the radar, which the Rams are with a lot of guys on rookie contracts, especially once Aaron, you know, calls or quits. So you got a lot of guys on rookie contracts that are really, really high level players. And a Fisk and Jared Verse become Pro bowl, especially Verse becomes like a Khalil Mack type guy, then that changes the course of your franchise. What is a dominant trend in today's National Football League? He said NFL, but sometimes I just like saying it out. You think we'll look back on in 10 years and say we're totally wrong about that? Ten years ago, we still believed in paying running backs punting on fourth and two and question whether mobile quarterbacks could win long term. Well, I think one of the big reasons we go for it now on 4th and 2 and whether mobile quarterbacks could win long term is every quarterback's a mobile quarterback. They used to be in the minority. They used to be an outlier. Right. The reason we talked up Michael Vick or McNabb or back in the day, like Steve Young or Randall Cunningham, they were kind of it. Most of the guys were just like sitting back in the pocket and slinging that pill. They were not elite athletes relative to NFL players. I mean, they were obviously like, Dan Marino is a good athlete, but relative to like Lawrence Taylor. Well, I mean, think about the amount of quarterbacks now that are mobile. Even of the top guys, you would say Burrow is the least mobile of like the top end group. And he's a pretty mobile quarterback in terms of movement ability. He's not Peyton Manning or Philip Rivers in there. So it's based on college. And you go, are we ever going to get back to that individual? And I say this to Colin all the time, like, Jared Goff. Is Jared Goff going to exist again? Just a guy who can't really move like you. I've watched a decent amount of the quarterback so far this year. To me, Garrett Nussmeier, my comp for him, he's got a little like the good version of Jimmy Garoppolo. I wouldn't call him a bad athlete, but he's not emo, he's not Eli Manning. But then you look at all the other guys like they check boxes of athleticism. So a lot of it's based on, you know, who's coming up. And to me, the fourth and two thing became a product of that way better, more mobile quarterbacks. So it's like I basically have three options on short yardage stuff. I can hand it off, I can hand up the quarterback, run around or just run or I can pass. So you just got more options to call. Plus because of the defensive rules there. I mean, in theory, I know week one was hit or miss, but over the course of a season, it's just easier to play offense. Well, we're never going back, right? They're never just. And listen, this bothers me sometimes because I don't want to see anyone get a concussion or anyone get knocked out. But some of these passes are hospital balls. And this is where I agree with Tom that forever. Not that guys didn't get KO'd and make passes into hostile environments where safeties and linebackers were, but they had to think twice. And now guys let it rip and they just don't have to think twice. When I hear people say that week one game, like Ferguson should have caught it that ball 20, 30 years ago, Ferguson is cut in half and Dak probably doesn't let it rip because he's laying his guy out to dry now, it doesn't even cross his mind, like, they can't touch him. And then what happens? Ferguson has to dive into the ball and what's his name on 32? God my brain's not firing. Haven't even had a cocktail this week. What's he supposed to do, float away? Right. You could be Deion Sanders or Ed Reed, level athlete. You're just going to run into his head. I see this countless times during the year where a guy gets flagged for a defenseless receiver. It's an awful pass. And the guy honestly has. There's nowhere else he could touch him even when he's trying to, you know, be safe. So that's a great question. I think it's just more offensive oriented things. Maybe how tight ends are underpaid. I mean, right now a high end tight end is making way less money than a wide receiver. And I hear unprecedented a lot or that's the market value. Well, if the house I'm sitting in right now was worth a hundred thousand dollars and my neighbor sells their house for a million dollars, if I try to sell my house, they wouldn't come to me and go, it's the same house, go. Well, the last time you bought the house, $100,000. So, you know, with inflation, we'll give you 200 grand. No, it's based on the comp of your next house. But all the comps are based on previous tight ends. But the game is so much different. Like I'm catching 90 balls. I see guys catching 75 balls. 80 balls get 75, 80 million dollars. And you want to pay me 45, 50 million dollars because I'm just a tight end, Even though I do what they do. And honestly more they kind of get screwed. But there's no way to break out of that cycle. I don't have a great answer. I mean, I think, yeah, I don't really have a great answer for that because I think part of the trends are you don't see them coming and then an individual. And that's what makes it like Chip Kelly was ahead of the curve with the way he played and the space he, you know, and the pace he went. And I'd even say the spacing of the passing game with Mike Leach 15, 20 years ago. All that stuff is integrated in, you know, in most of the world things move down, but in football, things move up. Like, think about high school football. A lot of good teams, not, not. I mean, De La Salle was great and they ran the triple option, but for the most part, like the spread offense and spreading it out wide, that's been happening now for a long, long period of time. And it's been moved up into college and it's now moving its way up into the NFL. And as we get more and more of these quarterbacks, they always say the first thing they ask when they get to the Senior bowl, they go, raise your hand if you've ever been under center, not even just in college, but in your life. And the majority of guys don't raise their hand because they've been in shotgun the whole time. So do is does under center end? I doubt it. Because they're going to be enough younger Shanahan guys that the play action pass. I mean there are benefits to having that. What if like every team is just running tush pushes 15 times a game? Ratings would drop. I know you and Colin have talked about this before, but a defensive head coach has not won the super bowl since Bill belichick back in 2018-19. And it goes all the way back to Pete Carroll after that. The top teams with a defensive coach are clearly the Ravens and the Bills. My question, do you see this being a hindrance in both these teams ever winning or making a Super bowl or am I galaxy braining this too much? I think when you got those two quarterbacks, if Lamar or Josh, I mean if Lamar got on a heater, they would be tough to beat. If you told me Lamar had a month where he played as good a football as he could play, I would say the Ravens win the Super Bowl. You can't say that about Josh. Josh could play the best football humanly possible that like that he can play and they can lose playoff games. But no one's as good as the Ravens if he's playing at the high level because their defense is just better. They just have better players. And obviously the running back. Now Cook, Cook's pretty good too. So, you know, difference, obviously Henry's going to the hall of Fame is Cook. You got a long way to go, but like Cook can get you 150 yards all purpose, no problem with his eyes closed, score a couple touchdowns, catch some balls so that it's the offense isn't the issue. It's to me defense. And you can never ever win a championship in football, high school, college or the NFL at the highest level in big playoff games. And obviously super bowl if your defense isn't good. And that's the thing I always get back to with the Bills, which their coaches, defensive guys. I mean when you look at the Ravens and the Bills, like the Ravens typically are a well rounded team, you know, by the end of last year they definitely were, but the Bills haven't been. Now granted, the Bills made a bunch of defensive plays against the Ravens in that playoff game. So I don't know. Yeah, it wouldn't shock me if either one wins it. Like right now they are clearly two of the five, six, seven teams at most that can win the Super Bowl. 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To learn more Headed Depend.com void in Mississippi with Purdy being out 2 to 5 with a turf toe things look my mother in law I'm on this group text. I just got a text that said Purdy Turf Toe 2 to 5 Jennifer, we know you're a little late with that news. Things look pretty gloomy on paper. However, I tend to give a more optimistic view. Granted, I'm a little biased assuming there are no more major injuries. I know there is a big ass assumption. I think the schedule sets up pretty nicely for them with their next four games Saints, Jags, Cards, Rams. They, they should come out of it at least 500 with all their defense showed against Seattle in week one in anticipation of getting some playmakers back. Robinson, I think Mac Jones needs to play like Jimmy Garoppolo light for them to be in competition. Am I crazy? Their defense was excellent last week. So if you get a defensive effort of just elite tackling, good DB play, you can stay in games. Especially against like you said the next couple games, the Saints, you know, Jack's got some players in the cards. I think if you are three and one after your first four games, if Mac has to play, you're in pretty good shape. John lynch did say that they view him week to week. I mean I could argue what the hell's the difference between week to week and 2 to 5. Like it's usually we get like 6 to 8 right out a year out. 1 to 2, 2 to 5 is a pretty big difference. Like 2 to 5 could technically mean like yeah, he might come back that second week or he could miss till the middle of October. Like there's a big swing there that's, that's pretty big open ended. It's like any of you on the dating apps, like what's your age limit? There's a big difference between going like 25 to 35 and once you go like 21 to 60. So the two to five things a little crazy to me. But listen, Purdy was, I thought he had one bad throw in that game, the second interception. But for the most part he was lights out. If you told me Purdy was healthy, they easily could run the table going into that Rams game. I just think Mac Jones a pretty big wild card and if he plays well, they obviously should beat the Saints and they definitely could beat one of the Jags or the Cardinals. But if you win this weekend, ideally then worst case you would be two and two going into the Rams game. But like you'd be favored in the Cards game, which is in San Francisco Jags game. That might be tough coming off the Saints game, long flight out. Or I guess the Jags game would be at home because this, that would be their home opener. Yeah, because they played Seattle. So they go road, road and then home. It's tough, man. But this is why you pay your quarterback or your coach a lot of money and your quarterback a lot of money. Obviously one thing with a quarterback and it's no one's fault, no one wants to get injured, but durability really matters. And that to me Purdy is a Pretty big badass to be the last pick in the draft and to be as good as he is, like we're not seeing that again, like we have seen that in my adult life like once. And that was undrafted free agent Tony Roma, you know, Tom Brady situation, being drafted, pick that's such an. To be the greatest quarterback of all time. But over the last 20 years, like, it just doesn't happen. If you hit Russell Wilson or Dak or Kirk in like the third or fourth, like, that's unheard of. Nick Foles in the third. Most of the good quarterbacks in the NFL. Let's look at all the top guys. Patrick Mahomes, Round one. Lamar Jackson, Round one. Josh Allen, Round one. Joe Burrow, round one. Justin Herbert, round one. Let's even go to some of the random guys. Kyler Murray, Round one. Jalen Hurts, Round two. You just go around the league, right? Even at like some of the guys on that list, who are they playing? The Jacks, Trevor Lawrence, round one. Rams. Matt Stafford, round one. Sam Darnold, round one. J.J. mcCarthy, round one. Look at all the guys that started. Drake May, Caleb Williams. You just don't get a lot of like, yeah, six round picks starting. That's not very normal. Mac Jones, Round one. So, yeah, I mean, it's just. I don't really know what to say. I'm really fascinated to watch. I think they would be in major trouble, major trouble if their schedule was hard. If their next two weeks were like, you know, Ravens, packers or something, you'd be like, well, what am I even? It's not even fair to expect Mac and Kyle to win those games. But when you. The one reason I felt confident, even before I knew what their roster would look like, and even when I knew their roster still had a lot of question marks. Some of these random guys playing. But easier schedule, like, it's easy for people to go. You never know. I hate it when people say easy schedule. And I mainly agree, but this schedule is pretty easy. I mean, you get the Saints, week two, like, that's, that's a pretty easy draw. It could be easier, it could be Miami, but it sure is shit ain't the Bills. It sure is in the Eagles. So I mean, I think if you just listed what would be the five teams, if you got some major injuries and you're missing your quarterback, you would want to play. I'll promise you this, you would draw the Saints. Question for the pod. What are your thoughts on the Eagles? OC Throwing the O line under the bus in his recent Interview. I saw this question, I looked it up, and I just. I could not find it. So maybe I missed it. Maybe I'm just doing a bad job of searching on the interweb, but I could not find this situation. Now, I'm going to give an overall take here. I talk for a living and have done it for a while. So if you get me on an interview with whoever I'm comfortable talking, it doesn't mean I won't say something stupid every once in a while. It doesn't mean I say things like, yeah, I probably should have said that, or it's like, yeah, I don't even give a shit. But I know what I'm doing when I'm talking in terms of. In a public forum, this guy. And I would say the same thing about, like, Pete Carroll or Belichick at this point or any. These guys have been in front of a microphone or an old. Like, Matt Stafford. They have been doing interviews forever, so they know exactly what they're doing. If you have never been in a position with a camera and a microphone in front of you, like, this guy's a lifetime position coach. This guy's not used to talking in the media. That's not an excuse. And again, I don't even know what he said. But I'm just saying I would give grace to any individual the first time they become a coordinator in, like, that first half of that first year. And that includes the off season, too. Like, it's a pretty dramatic. You never have to talk, say a word till, like, every Thursday you talk and everyone wants to talk to you and get your opinions on stuff. That's a pretty dramatic shift from just being like, what are you doing? I'm just hanging out in my office, get some downtime. Yeah, we're just BSing to, like, no, I have a press conference in 10 minutes, and in the first game, we had an hour delay. We got our star wide receiver, who can be a little diva. Ish. I mean, there has been some quarterback wide receiver friction before. Like it or not, it came out, they pushed back. Brandon Graham said it. We're not making that up. So it's like, there's a lot going on. You got an intense environment. You got Howie looking over your shoulder. You're trying to prove to the players you know what you're doing. And it's. It's. It's. To me, I'd even say I'm not expect anything unless you're a disaster. I put no emphasis on any press conference you do in the Offseason. The offseason's cake. You're working three or four days a week, you're going to the pool with your kids three days a week, you're playing golf twice a week. You're just, you're chilling, you got a tan on, you're looking good. There aren't stresses. Give me, give me week two after you just lost a barn burner and the offense had 220 yards offense, what do you sound like on Thursday? It's hard. It's hard and it's position. Some guys are comfortable. Vic Fangios done a million press conferences. So whether the Eagles have a bad defensive performance or a good performance, like he knows what he's doing, right? Sean Payton, Bo Nicks, like you could put a mic in front of him a minute after that game ends and he can just handle himself, right? Doesn't mean he's going to say what you're going to want him to say or maybe even something he regrets. But like he's going to be okay. You give me a guy that's not used to talking. It's no different than I think about this all the time when people. Because how would you not if I wasn't doing what I'm doing, I'd be like, I can do that. If I just gave you a microphone and say, hey, I'll give you 30 minutes to prepare and then you're just going to talk for 45 minutes on football. Godspeed. It's a little harder than you think. You know, it's like, can you just go and keep people's attention? But if I gave you five years of doing it, you know, if you know, your shit be fine. So I give again. I don't even know if this happened. I couldn't find it when I googled it. Maybe it's a bigger story than I realized. You never know in Philly. I also think little stories in Philly become big. But I think you got to give the first time coordinator a little grace. But this also shows you that they go to K.C. casey's defense was atrocious. You know, they're going to spags, is going to have rally the troops. What if they have another rough outing on offense and Saquon's not as involved? AJ the passing game's weird. It's just, it's difficult. These are really, really hard positions. I'll never forget I had an offensive coordinator who got fired and they still owed him. And this is like 8 years ago when it was a, you know, coordinators just started Making like if. Unless you were a top, top guy. But he was a first time coordinator. He was making a million dollars a year and it was a really big, I mean, that's a ton of money. He's like, five years ago I was making $75,000. So he had worked his way up and he's like, I don't feel bad cashing these checks because he got fired and he didn't work the next year. The things that were said about my family, the things that were said about me that my family had to read, he's like, it's a lot different being in the coordinator position than it is the quarterback coach or the O line coach or the D line coach, because you are truly under the firing line. So it's like the reason I get way more money doing this is the stress it puts on my life because it, it goes dramatically up and then from the coordinator position to the head coaching position, that's like a 50x position. So there is an element. And we all know anyone who's read about stress got to be one of the biggest killers in the world. And we get a lot of that here in America because we capitalist society got a lot of stressful situations going professionally, which I like at times. I mean, it's good to get your blood flowing, but there's a balance of the pressure that some of these guys are under, especially in a place like Philadelphia. So I wouldn't want to be that guy. You know, it's hard to follow. They just won the super bowl, so anything less than being a dominant team with a dominant offense, especially all their fans, and I support Philly fans, but let's face it, like they've. Jalen's an elite guy. Why aren't you considering Jalen a top five guy? Well, yeah, he's played excellent in the, in the super bowl, so he deserves a ton of credit. We all think the guy is mentally tough, wired the right way, and when his good is good, it's awesome. But like over the course of the season, he's kind of a roller coaster ride. And he can have games where you're like, what's going on? And that's a little different than the other guys in the top five. No one says he sucks, but obviously the super bowl is the most important game that he'll ever play, and he's played in it twice and he was good. So you get a lot of credit for that. And he's super bowl champion. No one can take that away from you. He's being paid A lot of money. No one can take that money away from him. But just in terms of like he's not Peyton Manning or John Elway. So he's a really good player who when you watch him randomly can look pretty shitty as well. His game is, honestly, sometimes it's not great. He's not a great watch. I think that's part of it. Like you watch Justin Herbert in that Chiefs game. You're like, God, this guy's just a great watch, right? You watch Joe Burrow when he's on or something. Like sometimes Jalen hurts. Yeah, he scored three touchdowns, he threw one and he had two tush pushes. Like, great. Cool. I think that's some of the pushback on him though. I respect it. I mean the tush push is because he's got really strong legs like most people. I see other guys trying the tush push. They don't get it because they can't get any push because they can't squat £6,000 like he can. I mean that's, that's the advantage they have and that's what all their players say. It's not just their O lines. Good. It's the power in the quarterback. Most guys can't get that low and can't be that powerful. Like he's a huge part of it. But we got to be honest about this. Sometimes he's just a boring player. And some boring works. You know, a lot of people are own boring companies that make millions of dollars. So just because you in something that's not glamorous, it doesn't matter. But he can have moments where he's just not that glamorous of a player. The volume.
- [37:22]
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- [38:22]
Dan Orlovsky
Ugh. Come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.
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Dan Orlovsky
Whoa. This thing moves.
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- [39:00]
Podcast Host
Witness the new season of Reasonable Doubt Streaming on Hulu September 18th. LA's most successful attorney, Jack Stewart, defends a young actor accused of murder. Follow Emayatti Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sikora and guest stars Kash Doll and Lori Harvey as they face off in the year's most sensational trial in the pursuit of justice. Every move counts. Reasonable doubt, season three is streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney September 18th. Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
- [39:32]
Dan Orlovsky
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- [40:04]
Podcast Host
This is an iHeart podcast.