← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - NFL Offseason Mailbag: Browns-Rams Trade Dissected, Jared Verse's Ceiling, Andrew Berry's Rebuild Vision + Rams GM Les Snead's Art of the Big Swing
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- [00:00]
Akilah Hughes
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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John Middlekauff
Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We, we just contributed to the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. The volume. What is going on? My people? John Middelkoff three and out podcast. How are we doing? Hopefully everyone's doing as well as Miles Garrity had a big smile on today. I watched Andrew Barry's press conference in Cleveland. I watched Les Need McVeigh with Miles Garrett today in Los Angeles. And yeah, I was planning on just doing a big mailbag, but I was, like, taking about 24 hours, one of the biggest trades in NFL history. I'll kind of rehash some stuff that I've been thinking about, and then we'll go into the mailbag, which the first four or five questions are heavily on this topic anyway. I mean, it's got to be one of the biggest. Didn't see that one coming on June 1st. That we'll ever get as long as I've been doing this. So. And I'm not mad at it, you're gonna give me a trade like that when I need to put together a podcast in June? I'm all for it. I could use another one this week as well, so. Or next. Actually, save it next week. Save it for next week. But yeah, that's the game plan today. You guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and Out. We're up on Netflix. You can hit the alerts. You never miss an episode. We got any content that doesn't make it onto the podcast? I, I, I try to put up on the YouTube channel, so you can go check that out as well. And let's talk some. Let's talk some Rams Browns. I, I, I want to start with Les need and just the Rams philosophical belief on how to operate. And I, there are two types of people that I really admire just personally, professionally, and I've said this forever with, I mean, it's much more tangible with athletes, but anyone that knows people that Own businesses, small businesses, medium sized businesses, whatever, and they get like their 60s or 70s and they still show up at the office all the time and they still want to know what's going on. And they're still heavily involved. It's like, bro, you've made all the money. You do not need to do this. And it's like kind of all they know and they just kind of like being in the, in the mix. They like doing deals. You know, Tom Brady Playing at 44, 45 years old, it's like, why are you doing this? Aaron Rodgers this year, it's like, yeah, he's making $25 million, but, you know, $25 million is changing his life. Zero percent. Unless he's blown a bunch of money that we don't know about, it is going to have zero material impact on the guy's life. He's like playing ball. Proved it last year when he played through a broken hand, not making that much money relative to what he was used to making. And I, I, I, I hope that about myself. If I'm ever lucky enough to be in a position where it's like, you don't have to work, it's like, no, I like to grind. I like to do this. And you watch all these people and you just like, I want to be like that and keep that mindset as I age. And the other thing, and these are the type people that I admire the most are people with balls, people with stones, people that aren't afraid to step into the batter's box and take a big swing. Because you know what? In life, nothing is guaranteed landing. Miles Garrett. Sean McVeigh said it today guarantees you nothing. He even used the example. Do you guys know who the betting favorite to win the super bowl last year around this time of year was? He said, no, you guys don't. None of you remember. I do. It was the Baltimore Ravens and they were like almost four to one. Guess what happened. They went eight, nine. They missed the playoffs. Now based on injuries going into the season, you know, Metabuque missed the, missed the season. But no one thought the Baltimore Ravens weren't going to make the playoffs and John Harbaugh would get fired. There were a lot of really, really rich people in 2006 and 2007 who did not have much by 2009. Things change fast. This life is not guaranteed on the field. In the business world, personally, our own health, things change on a dime immediately. But you can't live scared, you can't function scared, and less need. I looked at it yesterday for Miles Garrett, Trent McDuffie and Matt Stafford. They have given a 22 first round pick. They've given a 23 first round pick which was pick six. They gave a 26 first round pick for McDuffie. They'll give a 27 first round pick for this Miles Garrett trade. That's four first round picks, a second and a third. Oh, and Jared Goff, who was the number one overall pick who's made Pro bowl since he's been in Detroit and the defensive rookie of the year has made back to back pro bowls including those picks for those three players. Like he is giving up a lot to get a lot, but he is not afraid to do that. And I think a lot of people I remember when I worked for, for a short period of time in corporate America, I was around all these like middle managers who were making, I mean at the time it would have been 250, 300, 400 grand, you know, running these radio stations. And they never wanted to upset the apple card. They never wanted to piss anyone off below them or above them. They just kind of wanted to maintain the status quo so that money kept coming in. I remember being around him and I had been in football my entire professional career up until that point thinking these guys are fucking losers, like this is not working. But they never wanted to change anything because if they make a change, then the bullseye is on them and they can lose that precious job which ironically most of them blown out since because the industry dramatically changed. And I'm sure many of you guys, especially younger people, when you start coming up, you get in these corporate situations, people want to hold on. They don't want to give up because if they do and they make a change, then everyone's looking at them. It's easy to just maintain what is kind of working and nothing is kind of working like what. What's happening with the Rams? They've been in the playoffs the last couple years. They've been a player two away from last year, being in the super bowl, the previous year playing the Commanders in the championship game where they would have been favored. I mean they've been really, really close. You don't need to do anything. And they already made a big splash this offseason and getting Trent McDuffie. Hell, I even go back to the Ty Simpson thing. I don't agree with the pick. I, I don't see the value there. I don't think he's a long term starter in the NFL based on what I watch this year at Alabama. I Also think the risk profile of a guy that hasn't started that much. It's too risky to use that value of a pick on a guy with that many question marks. But Lesney doesn't operate that way. He sees enough value there to say, fuck it, take a swing. And the, the other thing. And a lot of you guys listening that are in sales, and we got the question recently on a mailbag about a dating opportunity in the office and, you know, the, the risk reward. And I, I was talking to my wife about that question since, and she knows a lot of people that got married. You know, she worked in corporate America before she got involved in real estate, and she sold multiple houses to different couples that met through their job in the corporate setting in which he worked. And I, I think sometimes when you are in a position to make a decision and you get told or, or want something, because that's what the Rams wanted, right? They wanted Miles Garrett. They heard no. How many people that are happily married with children that go on to live long lives were maybe told no the first time that they tried to get a date with their wife? How many people in sales that end up making the biggest sale of their career don't get an email back the first time they reach out to that potential client? They don't get a call back. They get told, no, we're not interested. That's part of life. Unless need and Andrew Barry talked about this. They've been on this for years, and they have heard no over and over and over. The majority of people say, okay, good, I'll just move on. I actually saw this clip on Instagram. It was one of those classic, like, reels of a podcast mixed up. And it was a guy talking, like, why, in a lot of different companies, salespeople make a lot more money than the majority of people beside, like, the CEO and maybe the cfo. Why? Because they generate the most money. They also eat the most shit. It's not an easy gig. Most people do not have the mental fortitude or thick skin to handle it. Because even if you're a successful guy, you're getting told no constantly. And part of being a deal maker in any line of work, and specifically pro sports, is like, you're going to be on the wrong end of it a lot. And, you know, when you try to make some of these deals happen, there's a reason that all these GMs say, Listen, there's a lot of discussions that don't lead to anything. There are a lot of discussions that I reach out And I'm told that ain't happening. Welcome to your gig. That's what you're paid to do. And the one thing Les need is excellent about is being relentless of his pursuit of the things he wants. And he's obviously willing to quote unquote, overpay or pay a premium to get what he wants. And a lot of people, whether it's in football, whether it's in the jobs you guys have are just not. Because the risk, like I said, just go back. I remember graduating college into the financial, great financial crisis. I've met so many people since that were telling me about like how great things were in especially anyone involved in real estate like 04, 05, 06. And then things came to a screeching halt. Well, if you were in it in 05 and 06, you didn't see that thing coming or you would have saved and you would have got out. But everyone worked right into it and got blown the up and I, I think less seed is just unafraid to get blown up because it would have been easy to not do this. He already had a young ascending player that does not need to get paid for multiple years. Now obviously this guy is better, but he did not need to make this deal because when you do this, it puts even more pressure on you. Not only is everyone saying they're the betting favorite, but how do you not win the Super Bowl? No one's ever had the MVP and the reigning defensive player of the year on the same team. It's unheard of, right? It's, it's, I remember being a kid like packers, they had Reggie White and Brett Favreau even a couple years before Steve. We 49ers almost said we. It was we back then signed Deion Sanders with Steve Young, MVP of the league, best defensive ends of player, boom Super Bowl. I mean it's if, if you have an MVP candidate and a dominant defensive player, like it's, it, it becomes a little like basketball. If you have the impact of those two guys, it's going to be hard to not be elite. And the thing with football though is there's no guarantee. We've seen a lot of great teams on paper not come to fruition. But I have the utmost respect even if I don't agree with every individual move over the course of the last five, six years. Some of them are easy, right? I mean I, I, I do not think they regret the Lions Stafford trade obviously, but the Lions don't regret that trade either. And the McDuffie trades an easy one as well, if you're willing to pay him. Pick 29 here, give me a Pro bowl corner. I think this one though, it's like this puts even more pressure on you. And the one thing this organization does not afraid of is the spotlight in the pressure. And I do think if you go back a couple years, this has been a pretty dramatic shift. They got outbid once upon a time for Christian McCaffrey because they were offering a third and fourth and the Niners threw in a second round pick. And I just think this version of them is not getting outbid for anything. And this, this version of them is not just not calling you back because you say no. And let's face it, a lot of people do not call back when they hear no. And then a year later, five years later, they're just bitching and moaning and playing the victim and complaining. It's like, yeah, life is not that complicated. Usually successful people all have similar qualities. And McVeigh, unless the tandem of willingness to the aggression take big swings is, is very, very admirable. And speaking of Andrew Barry, I, I do think, I do believe him when they kept asking him like, what? Why didn't you shop them? He's like, because we were never shopping them. They just kept calling us and asking for the player and offering more and more and more. And then they got to a point when they included Jared Verse that we couldn't say no. The analogy that everyone uses, and I've used it before, is like, if someone knocks on your door and offers you 20% more than your house is worth, well, if the interest rates are high and you don't have anywhere to move and you like your house, it ain't worth it. Even if you could make a little profit. It's such a pain in the ass to move. But if I knock on your door and double your home's value, you're going to think long and hard about it. If I triple it, you'd be crazy to not have the moving trucks there two days later. And I think sometimes you get offered something that you go, well, we're going nowhere. This guy still has a ton of value that if we did shop them. And he brought up a good point, we were only going to trade him if we hit a couple factors. Draft compensation. Obviously we were going to need a young player back and there probably be other teams that could offer young, impactful players. But the unique part about this deal is they were offering a young ascending player that plays his position. So if I just remove Miles Garrett and someone offered me the equivalent of verse at tight end, at wide receiver, at corner or whatever. I have a massive, massive hole at pass rusher. Well, Jared versus not Myles Garrett, but he is a Pro bowl to me, arrow pointing up, guy that should be a double digit sack player for the next several years. And I think they feel pretty good about it and they get a guy that's also on a cost control deal. So. And Miles gets, you know, to go to a team that has the expectations that you feel good about, you're not screwing a guy. That has kind of been one of the bright spots for a pretty embarrassing operation. And you watch Andrew Barry and I have been very critical because I do think sometimes, like the analytically driven general managers in sports always get a longer rope with criticism when it comes to the media because the media sees like they're equal in terms of intellectual capacity. Andrew Berry now played college football at the, in the Ivy League. I, I think he knows players based on his last couple years of doing deals. I think he's done a really, really good job. And I've, I've always defended him. And I don't have inside information on this about the desean Watson thing. I'm putting that one on the owner. I'm going to defend him on the Dylan Gabriel thing. That felt like a heavy Stefanski pick because I just watched Stefanski signed Tua. I've always been even more critical of Stefanski, who I clearly don't think knows quarterbacks very well at all. Like he did have Baker Mayfield that he could have worked with, couldn't now, maybe Baker was a little immature then, but still, like, it's kind of on you, you know, it's like that's your gig. And then you wanted Dylan Gabriel like a guy that most people would have had as an undrafted free agent and clearly is not an NFL quarterback. And then you immediately go to tua. I mean, come on, man. Like, not everyone's gonna be Patrick Mahomes, but you got to look through a different lens. And I watch Andrew Barry doing these deals. Like I, I, I, I, I think he knows what he's doing. Now from a coaching standpoint, it's hard to get people to take their job. I mean, years ago people thought Kasario was crazy. Well, no one would take the Houston Texans job. That's why they had to sign David Kelly. That's why they went with Lovey Smith who was a defensive coordinator, because it was toxic. And then it became non toxic and they could get a real coach. And I Do think the Browns are kind of laying that foundation of a lot of really good players, a lot of young ascending players. They're just gonna have to figure out the coach and the quarterback and maybe Bunkin is that guy. I would probably bet against it, but I do think their GM has proven to being really, really dynamic. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock BET Florida Sportsbook. We talk a lot of football on the show, but it's the NBA Finals. Not gonna lie. I don't like the Knicks. I love the Knicks. I got in on them probably 10 days ago at 4 to 1. Now they're here. They are currently on Hard Rock bet +1 60 to win the NBA Finals. They are also an underdog in game one in San Antonio on Wednesday night. They're four and a half point underdog. You know, Victor Webanyama's favor to win the mvp. San Antonio's favor to win this series. I believe it's the Knicks time and obviously if you're going to bet him to win the series, it's hard to bet against Jalen Brunson being the mvp. We have had some recent examples though. A couple years ago, Jaylen Brown, I remember when Andre Guadala won it. I, I think if you go, well, who could win the MVP if it wasn't Jalen Brown? If you. Or Jalen Brunson, if you wanted to get some odds, you know, Carl Anthony Towns 20 to 1. OG's 40 to 1. Bridges is 150 to 1. So I, I think the safe bet is Brunson, but they got a lot of firepower defensively to throw at him. I can't wait for this series. I again, I, I'm on the Knicks. I think the Knicks win it. I think it's going to be excellent. But I think this is New York's time. So same game parlays. You want to bet Victor Wembanyama triple double A. Carl Anthony Towns, you know, double double with Jalen Brunson's over on points. You can do whatever you want to do. I think Jalen Brunson goes nuts and Victor goes. I think it's going to be fantastic. So try your first better Hard Rock bet today and you can score 150 in bonus bets. If you win, just place $5 and if it hits, you get not only your winnings but also an extra 150 in bonus bets. Ensure Hard Rock is Florida's only sportsbook, but you don't have to be in Florida. Join the party. It's all over the place. Arizona, Ohio, Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado, Michigan. Download the Hard Rock BET app today. Let's get the party started.
- [19:45]
Jonas Brothers
Number one hits, millions of records sold, awards, sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied?
- [19:51]
Akilah Hughes
Nope.
- [19:51]
Jonas Brothers
It's podcast time.
- [19:53]
John Middlekauff
We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
- [19:56]
Jonas Brothers
Hey Jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.
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John Middlekauff
You know, Steve Carell is a great singer. Can he tell you not to audition at the office or something? I told him, whoa, we were filming Anchorman. Clearly I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to me, right?
- [20:11]
Jonas Brothers
Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Akilah Hughes
Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it getting a new one put up in its place. As long as there's a politics of
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John Middlekauff
race in America, there's going to be a politics of remembering the Civil War. To get to school, I had to
- [20:34]
Theo Henderson
go down Robert E. Lee Boulevard.
- [20:35]
John Middlekauff
Get to the grocery store, I had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway.
- [20:38]
Akilah Hughes
If you're a historian and you leave out half of what the history is, you're not doing your job. I'm Akilah Hughes and Rebel Spirit Season 2 goes deep on both of those things. The fights, the politics, the people who won, and my personal campaign to add something to the Kentucky State House that's actually worth the wall space.
- [20:57]
John Middlekauff
We are more than our bodies. We contain essence, we contain spirit. How do you represent that? They are just fueling a fire that is really catching.
- [21:07]
Akilah Hughes
You'll see what I mean. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you go. Get your podcasts.
- [21:17]
Theo Henderson
Mainstream media is full of cruel depictions of the unhoused. Stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a monolith. We the Unhoused is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host, and for years I've created a space where the unhoused and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed unhoused parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers, veterans, the LGBQTIA community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. We Unhoused, a two time Webby and Signal award winning show with many exciting guests on the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Gio Wicheric, a street doctor turned influencer whose work with the Unhoused community has made a huge impact online and in her community. Listen to we the Unhoused on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
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John Middlekauff
Let's just do some mailbag questions at John Middlekopf at John Middlekopf Is the Instagram fire in those DMs? Questions answered here on the show got a lot DMS blew up yesterday. Nothing like a trade to get everyone fired up. It's gonna be pretty heavy. Browns Rams questions here. Early Browns fan I cannot believe and I didn't realize this. I I saw this DM earlier in the day and then I watched Barry's press conference. The vibe in Cleveland I from maybe on the Reddit boards, the fan message boards online is not positive. I cannot believe people are so upset about Miles and the trade. I understand it's difficult to trade away the best defensive player in football, but he's 30, he's a depreciating asset and we are not in a position to win a Super Bowl. We have a lot of young talent. It makes so much sense to get a great young player and plenty of ammo to potentially trade up in future drafts. After this move and the last two drafts the Browns have had, I'm starting to think Barry knows what he's doing. Am I crazy for thinking that after being so upset with desean Watson as well many failed draft picks like Gabriel Willis, etc. I do think this is the last year, like every year that goes by with an aging player. I mean, Miles going into year 10, I don't think he's a depreciating asset yet. He's at 25 sacks, so his asset value is still really strong. I thought they should have traded him last year when he demanded the trade. And, and as Andrew Barry said, we just know he kept asking or people kept asking him, like, what did you say last year when they'd call you about Miles? He's like, I would tell them no, this wasn't like we're this isn't a Giannis situation. And this also isn't like a Luca situation where we couldn't stand the guy and we wanted to get rid of him and I traded him to my buddy. This was one team being relentless in their pursuit of the asset and refusing to take no for an answer and finally meeting our parameters and make it worth it. So I would say the Travis Hunter trade and the Miles Garrett trade, which brought you two defensive linemen who should both be multi year Pro Bowlers moving forward for the Browns in Mason Graham and Jared Verse. Christian Junkins who should be a starting running back and we'll see what happens with these future picks. But I am in complete agreement with the that Andrew Berry's doing a good job. I, I am and I, I, I can't hate this trade at all. I thought they should have traded him last year but would I rather have like think about this. Let's say the let's say the Rams would have traded pick 13 before the draft and next year's the same package but instead of Jared Verse Pick 13 Would I rather have Reuben Bane or Jared Verse? I think Jason Light be the first to tell you I hope Reuben Bane becomes Jared Verse. Like he's in in theory he's kind of similar type player but like if Ruben Bane becomes Jared Verse, the Bucks nailed that pick. So you would rather have Jared Verse than Reuben Bain. So I I think people are conflating the value of Verse. His value is really really high. I I, I said it yesterday. I, I think they could have got if they would have put Verse on the trading block which he clearly wasn't he just in the negotiations they had to include him that would the would the Cincinnati Bengals rather have had Dexter Lawrence coming off a down year he's had some injuries now Dexter's proven to be a more dominant player than versus Verse when he's been right or a guy who's making way less money cost controlled you don't need to give a contract extension to in Jared Verse. I think it's fair to say when you factor in age in the contract they might have rather had Jared Verse but they that would have been a discussion they would have given pick 10 like to me that would have been a heavy discussion in their, in their room. Would you say that Rams teams that Stafford has been on are quote super teams? Why doesn't this seem to impact his image the way it does Purdy, Hertz, Goff, etc. Well I think he Stafford already established himself for well over a decade in Detroit, right? Really good player. No one wins on shitty organizations. It doesn't happen. Larry Fitzgerald, whose father just passed RIP is a great example. He's one of the great players of all time. When he got his couple times to play with good teams he was clearly like one of the greatest playoff players we'd ever seen. But he played for the Cardinals and the majority of the time they sucked. This is not basketball where if I'm Jokic, if I'm Luca, if I'm LeBron, if I'm Curry, even if my team kind of sucks, if I'm in my prime. We're going to be somewhat competitive and like be a playoff team. It might, might be the eighth seed, but we're going to be competitive in football. Even if you're the quarterback, if your organization blows as the Lions did, I mean they were the running joke in the league. You can't overcome it. And honestly last year they didn't have Trent McDuffie or Miles Garrett and Stafford won the MVP. Puka was a fifth round pick. A lot of people could add Devonte, you know, he led the league in touchdowns, but it wasn't like people were knocking down the doors to give him a couple years $40 million like the Rams did. It's not like they gave him $150 million. So I, this is super team. But the last couple years were not super teams. They were really defined by Verse Fisk, Young, all these young players that Les had just drafted. Now all those guys probably are going to get long term contracts. But like two years ago when they went toe to toe with the Eagles or even last year when they're going toe to toe with Seattle, I, I don't think you would call that a super team. This year is for sure. You crush Barry and Stefanski for years. Should they really get credit for trading an all time talent? Like do the Raiders get credit for taking Mendoza or the Colts for taking Luck? Seems like it's not hard to be a good GM when you're handed an all time talent. You don't get any credit for taking Andrew Luck. Grixon used to get mad at me because I, I used to shit on his tenure with the Colts. It's like you just don't get credit for drafting Andrew Luck. You know, it's like that's my mom would have done that. The, the Mendoza thing, you probably don't get credit for that either. You get credit for everything else. Like you get credit for Ash and Genty, you know, whoever else the, the you drafted over these couple years or Linderbaum or whatever. But I'm with you. You don't. Now if Mendoza and Luck, you can't really compare. I mean Luck was dramatically better coming out of college. But I hear what you're saying. You don't like does Ryan polls get credit for Caleb Williams? I think where you deserve credit is I think the owner is very involved in Cleveland, clearly. And when you hear them continuously say One helmet guy. One helmet guy. One helmet guy. I think part of the reason they say that is, like, what else do you really have to hang your hat on? You know, you're watching Shador complete 30% of his passes or DeSean Watson limp around out there. It's not like an enjoyable team to watch. But you have this one guy who is like Reggie white, Lawrence Taylor, 25 sacks, but like every single year, you just watch them play. And when he's on, he's fun player to watch. And I just think it's very difficult to do that. And when you do that, you have to capitalize. And I just think they did. So I. You don't get credit for drafting the player. Did it? I don't think Andrew Barry drafted him. Did he? But you get credit for changing your mind and realizing what's best for the organization, which is ultimately your job. And Les and Andrew are coming from different areas, right? And I. I think some people, I wouldn't even say greedy, but in the back of their heads, like, one day we could trade this guy. Well, in two years, the value might be really shitty. He might be a shell of himself, and you wasted your opportunity to capitalize on the investment or capitalize on the asset. And I think that they were open to it and they kept working the Rams. Working the Rams. Like, I don't think this was an easy deal for the Rams to do. I'm a lifelong Rams fan dating back to St. Louis, and I have friends acting like Verse is the next T.J. watt. There's no question he's been highly productive, but given his relatively limited pass rush arsenal, I think his sack ceiling is probably around 12. I would tend to agree. I've been trying to explain to my friends that his most likely outcome is something closer to Brandon Graham. Not because I think Verse has the same pass rush limitations. It's like a scout here. But because so much of what makes both players valuable does not necessarily show up in the sack column. The impact games for pressures, run defense, setting the edge, and constantly winning reps, even if the box score does not always reflect it. Graham was extremely productive and fantastic edge defender throughout his career, even if he never put up the Gotti sack totals. And his overall impact was much greater than his raw sacks. A huge part of football. Winning teams have winning players that don't necessarily show up in the box score every single week. A big reason that Dexter Lawrence went for pick 10 is not because he's one day going to get the Bengals 15 sacks. It's because when he's right for 30, 40 snaps during that game, he is an unmovable object. And obviously he has pass rush ability too. But when he's right, his skills don't just light up the box score like maybe a TJ Water and Miles Garrett. No different than some players that are great, you know, receivers that, that block in the passing game or running backs that are great in pass protection. Football is a team game. This isn't golf, this, this isn't tennis. You know, you have to do things that do not like certain guys, certain games. Part of AJ Brown's value is he becomes a threat even when he's not targeted. You have to allocate energy, effort and resources on his side of the field. So it takes a lot of game planning, it takes a lot of the players attention. Everyone on that sideline is focused on him. And if he runs routes hard and plays hard, even if he only gets three or four catches, he can change the game. Tyree Kill Randy Moss. Any big time threat, offensively or defensively like Miles Garrett can have a great game and not get a sack because he's causing so much attention. He can free up for everyone else. So I'm with you. And the other thing is you don't get much credit for because you get paid to rush the passer. Being a good run defender really matters. It really does. When I try to run your way and I cannot run your way because you set the edge and you set the tone of stoning whoever is at the line of scrimmage, that matters. That's why the Texans defense is so good. Because Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter, it ain't just about third and 10, first and 10, you better buckle the fuck up because those guys are coming. And if you want to double team them, have at it. It's on like Donkey Kong. They want it. And that's part of being a good defensive lineman is being a two way player. There are a lot of guys that can just rush the passer on third and 12. There are a ton of guys throughout the league that don't start that can do that. Guys go on to have long careers that were later drafted picks because they're great pass rushers, but it's hard to put them on the field on 1st and 10 against the Eagles because like we're just going to run at you every single play. And that's where verse is good and that that matters. Especially in a division that gets freezing cold. You know, the Ravens and the Steelers, I mean the Steelers will see what their offense looks like under McCarthy, but the Ravens definitely want to run the ball. I guess the Bengals passed you. I got a hypothetical question on the Garrett trade. What if Verse decided to not show up in Cleveland? If I'm Verse, I think I'd be a bit pissed. Going from LA to Cleveland is a bit wild. Is this even a possibility? I mean technically you could no show but like once the season starts you get paid weekly. So why would you give up that money? And if you don't show up to the voluntary or excuse me, the mandatory ota, which I think for Cleveland's next week, maybe it's in two weeks, you would get fined and give up a hundred grand. I don't, I don't see financially why you would do that. There is no debating that going from the Rams to Cleveland would suck for two years. Jared versus played in huge games, playoffs and non playoffs. All of his games have mattered. The Browns haven't played in a meaningful game in years. So. And I understand he's from there. I think Andrew Barry said his sister still lives in Dayton, Ohio. But it's part of being a pro athlete. As John Ham once famously said, that's what the money's for. You know, we can't get traded. I guess some of us technically, potentially could. I guess depending on exactly what you do. If a company buys your company, maybe things change dramatically, but they're part of being an athlete. And if you don't have a no trade clause, which no rookie got a rookie contracts going to, this is a possibility, you know, and it goes the other way too. So some guys are on shitty teams and it's, it's why you always play hard, because people are gonna want you. I would say the one thing if I was Jared Verse that would give me that wouldn't piss me off too much. I remember Kevin Durant. Didn't he get traded to the Suns and was mad about the package. He thought the package should have been more. It's like, bro, you're always worried about the weirdest shit. But if you're Jared Verse, you knew that you were the reason that, that they could trade for one of the greatest players in the history of the game. So this team doesn't like me. They love me. So if I keep doing what I'm doing, I'm going to get $150 million. That's I, I think that's the way you'd have to shift your mind. I also think once you've been in the league a couple years. Wasn't he with the Rams when they got rid of Cooper cup. Like he saw that Cooper cup was the super bowl mvp, like team captain, heartbeat of the squad, and they just cut. I mean, it's part of the business you're in and the faster you kind of become aware of it, even if you are. I mean, I'm sure he didn't see this coming because nobody did. Heard on another pod the Browns won't have the fifth year option on Jared Verse. When teams trade away a first round pick, does the gaining team still have the fifth round option? That would be news to me. I. I would. When you get traded, you still have the ability on their rookie contract. Unless there's some stipulation that I don't know about. In this scenario, the Browns would have access to the fifth year option, which they would probably be planning on picking up after this season. But typically when you remember trying to think of a recent example, Sam Darnold was traded to the Panthers from the jets and they picked up his fifth year option. The Panthers did. And then everyone thought that they regretted it. So things change fast.
- [38:31]
Jonas Brothers
Number one hits, millions of records sold, awards sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied?
- [38:37]
Akilah Hughes
Nope.
- [38:38]
Jonas Brothers
It's podcast time.
- [38:39]
John Middlekauff
We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
- [38:42]
Jonas Brothers
Hey, Jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.
- [38:46]
John Middlekauff
You know, Steve Carell is a great singer. Didn't he tell you not to audition at the office or something? I told him, whoa, we were filming Anchorman. Clearly I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to me, right?
- [38:57]
Jonas Brothers
Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [39:04]
John Middlekauff
Keith Giamanca seemed like a mild mannered suburban dad, but secretly he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy. But I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong and what that might look like? No. I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life?
- [39:46]
Akilah Hughes
That is not the look of an innocent man. This is gonna change my life and my family dynamic forever. Because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue.
- [39:59]
John Middlekauff
Listen to Deep Cover the Family man on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:12]
Theo Henderson
Mainstream media is full of cruel depictions of the unhoused, stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a monolith. We the Unhoused is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host and for years I've created a space where the Unhoused and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed unhoused parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers, veterans, the LGBQTIA community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. We Unhouse is a two time Webby and Signal award winning show with many exciting guests on the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Jill Wicheric, a street doctor turned influencer whose work with the unhoused community has made a huge impact online and in her community. Listen to we the unhoused on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [41:20]
John Middlekauff
Here's a non Rams question. Over the last couple years in Houston they've been reshaping the O line and one of the most common themes amongst the beat reporters have been they're trying to change the culture of the unit. I believe trying to shift that culture was a big reason they got rid of Tunzel along with the big cap hit. What all goes into changing culture in a specific unit? Is this something you were a part of in Philly? How is it different than doing it for the whole team? I think the issue for them with Tunzel is he needed a new contract, which I think Casario and that group was hesitant to give. I think they saw where the roster was headed, who they wanted to invest resources in and Laramie still had a ton of value and they punted. I think they had some questions about like Laramie's practice habits just in terms like he just didn't practice all the time. And I think when your best player doesn't practice all the time it can be difficult. But I think part of setting the tone for your offensive line unit is whoever your best offensive lineman is if they set the standard of work ethic, of focus, of practice habits. I I'd argue though like I saw the 49ers like Trent Williams in part of it is just old, like he doesn't practice that much. So I to me it's on the O line coach who Cole Popovich is their O line coach who was my first year as a GA at Fresno State was our starting left or right guard. I think he got hurt week one and Never played again. He's been into coaching now for years. He coached for Belichick. But I, I, I've always believed culture is the people. Like, why did New England have such a great culture? Because it started with Tom. And most of the guys that they surrounded him with and early on he was surrounded with are the right type guys. Vrabel, Bruski, Rodney Harrison, Logan Mankins to Edelman to McCourty to Gronk. I mean, these are serious motherfuckers when it comes to football. So. But you can also, like, the Chiefs didn't trade Trent McDuffie because they didn't like Trent McDuffie. In terms of the culture, you, you also have to make business decisions. Like, you can't sign everybody. And at certain positions, the numbers are huge. So they're looking at it. When they trade, Tunzel is like, well, one day we're gonna have to pay the quarterback. Potentially. Will Anderson's gonna cost a lot. He did. We want to keep Daniel Hunter around. You just have to make tough decisions. I just think some decisions are just difficult and then you factor in everything. Right. In a perfect world, would they just have Larry Me Tunsle on the team with a bunch of other new guys who are good? Yeah, but it's hard to pull that off. So I, you know, remember the Chiefs traded Joe Tunney to the Bears. Andy Reid, like, the next day was like, he's one of, if not my favorite players I've ever coached. But it's a business and you got to, you know, mess with the cap. And the reality is, is guys like him, you know, certain positions make a ton of money now. Even guards and Centers now make $20 million a year. Tuns was making what, 30, $35 million a year. Just listen to you discuss Claude Lemieux tragedy, and you made a comment that I was hoping you could elaborate more on. You mentioned you and your wife discuss your son never having grandpa's. To quickly sum up my situation, I lost my father when I was 41 years old to suicide. Fast forward six years later, I'm happily married. The discussion of kids comes up regularly. Knowing how important grandpas were for me growing up, it's always in the back of my mind knowing any potential children I may have would be born without their grandpas. How do you and your wife discuss and navigate the situation with your own child? Well, he doesn't speak English yet, so we haven't broached any subjects, let alone that one. I, I, you know, I'm sure you could just, there's gonna come a time when he gets friends and he, his friends, they go to his grandparents house and he'll never have that opportunity. I guess we have like my mom's alive, her mom's alive. So like we can go to our, our grandparents house for him. But I don't know, I mean I, I obviously, obviously you guys didn't know me when I was a kid, but my mom's dad died when I was probably 13, 14 years old, maybe junior high. I used to go over to their house all the time. They lived down the street for me. And my dad's dad, Woody, who lived in the Bay area my entire life. I was around him all the time. He'd come to my house a lot, we'd go to his house. He lived with my parents at the latter stages of his life. He lived till his mid-90s, hopefully. I get those genetics. But he had great hair actually, so I don't, I don't know. I mean there's just, you just, you got to play the cards you're dealt, you know, I mean I, there's not going to be a simple, you just try to, I'm sure, I mean sometimes we talk about some of the lessons that her dad, who was in the FBI for a long time, former Marine, kind of taught her and her brother things that I, she mentioned something the other day. She showed me this Instagram post about like lessons for your kids about things that, you know, don't put their name on their lunchbox. And so I mean this is kind of dark about kids getting abducted and stuff, but just things that, lessons that we've learned from our parents that we pass down that way and obviously as they get older you tell them about, you know, your, your relationship with your father, that's no longer there. But we have, we have not had discussions with him because he's, he wouldn't even understand. I mean, so I, I, I say this all the time. I mean my, my big picture philosophical life lessons for the young man will come in due time, but as of right now, I just want the kid to sleep and stop freaking out when he gets bellyaches after he drinks a bottle and screams as loud that you could hear in, you know, Utah from where we're sitting. So we're going through it right now and I can't even fathom any thoughts besides just trying to get over this hump that is four and a half months. I love football. Go Niners. Are you keeping up with the World Cup? I don't really watch soccer unless they're big games. I recently just found out that the World cup had 1 1/2.5 billion views. Do you think the streaming services will try to get World cup games in the future? A normal World cup game averages 175 million people. It's a good question. Yeah, I'll watch. I mean obviously I'll watch all the USA games. I'll definitely, I mean I'll watch. It's, it's going to be on television constantly. What I love about a good tournament is something like this when it's not all prime time. You know, you just turn on. That's why I love golf. Thursday, Friday, I just sit in my office, in the house, wherever I'm at first thing in the morning. Saturday, Sunday, first thing in the morning. Always on ESPN plus. So when there's a game in Philly, in Jersey, in Boston, in Florida, these games are going to start for me on the west coast probably like nine in the morning. So I'll just have a World cup game on even if I don't know who's playing. But I, I, when I met Alexi Lawless maybe last year when I, when I was doing Colin, I told him off air, I said, you know, I went to a camp in 1994 on Stanford's campus and you guys played Brazil. And I remember we were staying in like the dorms and you could hear they were playing at Stanford's football stadium. And I think we lost like one nothing or two to one. It's like a historic game. And that, that's, that World cup. And even Alexia said made him famous, I mean is part of huge. He's a big personality and good talking about soccer. But like that moment made him and these, I, I said this the other day and people push back of like my expectations for us are pretty low because every time this type stuff happens we're, it feels like we're always disappointed and we go in thinking we're going to be like Tiger woods or Tom Brady and then are mad when we get bounced or don't make it to the, you know, out of the group. So my expectations are really low. That being said, when we're on and I'm not a soccer guy, I'm going to be rooting like I'm going to be glued. I feel this way with hockey. It's like Team USA, that was some of the most riveting television of 2026. Watching that group, watching them take on Canada, it was unreal. And if we could ever go on a run, it would be massive. And I think Soccer Guy used to always push back against. Like you don't even know that's sports. Most people in football don't know that much about football. You know what they do, they watch a lot of football and they enjoy it. I think Soccer Guy and maybe they've changed needs to be more inviting. Like let the casuals like me and you in and let us get mad that we're not good enough. Like that's, that's what you need. You need. The reason the Yankees and the Lakers and the Cowboys are the biggest brands in their sports is because they have the most casual fans as well as diehards. You know, Die Hards do not carry the day. It's a big couple days for Fox though, or a couple weeks or however long this cup is. It's a big day for all these football teams are hosting. You know, I know the Chiefs are hosting, the Niners, the Rams. I think all the football teams basically around the country are hosting these games. Despite the record coaching Turnover Last season, 10 teams that missed the playoffs yet did not make a change. Jets commander, Saints, Chiefs, Colts, Bengals, Cowboys, Bucks, Vikings, Lions. If you were to parlay three teams at 10 to 1 to have a new coach in 27, which ones would you pick? Also if I offered you 10 to 1 to predict a spot for Tomlin in 27, I do think the jets and Browns are going to be teams people pick and I was texting the three and out guys yesterday. I don't think either team's going to be good, but they're not bad. Like they're going to be good, bad teams. They're going to. Both the jets and the Browns are going to play all their Games and at 10:00am Pacific Standard Time on Sundays, as that window gets shittier, those teams are going to thrive there. Miami's not going to be a good watch. The Cardinals are going to be a terrible watch. They have no quarterback and their defense kind of sucks and they'll probably end up trading Josh Sweat. I do think the Browns and the jets have a lot of good core people, but they're probably both going to lose a lot of games. So is Todd Monkin and what's his name? Aaron Glenn. Like, are those jobs kind of decent jobs next year? Would Mike Tomlin be interested? Now when I see Mike Tomlin, I think I can see Tampa. They have a good gm. He's coached there before. I know it was a long time ago, but I could see him wanting to be in a little warmer weather. Client climate the other team and again like they could be just solid and Dan Quinn would be fine. You know, Josh Harris is a basketball guy. They've run through some coaches and they've run through some people. So Jaden Daniels I think would you know he's from that general area. He played football at William and Mary. I, if I was a betting man, I'd probably say Dan Quinn survives unless it got really bad like last year. But I, I would imagine my bet would be the Bucks. Would Tomlin coach the Browns? He already took shots at Barry last year for trading Flacco. The Jets, New York bright lights. I would say teams to have openings. I say the jets, the Browns. I think Cowboys gonna be pretty good, Lions safe, Vikings safe. If the culture of the Bengals were to miss the playoffs, those jobs would become open. Especially the Colts or I meant the Bengals. As a Chiefs fan, with the addition of B. Enemy back as OC Coming from Ben Johnson as a running back coach, do you believe B. Enemy will bring scheme changes the offense such as going under center instead of shotgun. Statistics have shown Mahomes has thrived under center and Walker runs way better under center as well. Well, I scheduled to talk to coach Reed tomorrow so I'm going to ask them ask him if the emphasis of going all in on Kenneth Walker and Mahomes coming back from injury, are they going to be a run first team. Especially when you look at their wide receiver unit. I mean best wide receiver is currently in the clink. So my guess would be that they be now when Eric B. Enemy became the offensive coordinator at ucla they passed it all the time. So Eric B. Enemy is a running back coach by trade. But when he, when he was a play caller like he likes passing it and he was around Andy forever who likes to pass it too. So my guess is we're going to see they kind of went back to the drawing board and maybe we see a big change next year when it comes to the just the past happy nature that the Chiefs I think can become and I think the wear and tear kind of ultimately the undoing of Mahomes acl. Would you rather have your favorite team suck, catch lightning in a bottle and win a championship but then go back to sucking. Think like the Florida Miami Marlins or have your team be competitive every year but never win a title. This is a no brainer part of sports if you're going to be a fan. And we'll just use football as this example because in baseball you would much rather have a team year in year out. The Braves won one championship in the 90s. They were really beside the Yankees, by far the best team in the 90s and they won it one time. How many World Series they even make it to? Was that the only World Series they made it to? They make it to one other World Series, but every single game during the season for a decade plus, you knew they were going to win a lot. Have you ever tried to watch a shitty baseball team? I, I haven't in years because I don't even pay attention. The Giants are horrendous. I honestly, I don't think the San Francisco Giants would win the College World Series. I think if you put the San Francisco Giants in the College World Series, I don't think they would be a lock to win. Which is somewhat ironic because the manager that they hired became famous because he won the College World Series. But their talent sucks. They were just a poorly run franchise and it's miserable. And they won titles years ago. 2014 might as well be 1887. I think you always pick being competitive. Always. Then if you're talking over 10 year span because they're just not going to watch the games. Had a first son, also named him Jack. Congratulations. Anyway, I'm curious, what's the life of a practice squad player? Have any guys made a full career in that role? Do they make a decent living? If that is as far as they make it in the league. And what is a day in the life of a practice squad player? The rules changed in 2020. When I was in the league you could only, you only had like several years, like three years of practice squad eligibility. And if you were on a bad team and they elevated you and you played a certain number of regular season snaps, your eligibility was done. So sometimes like a 5th round pick who would start on the practice squad would by mid season the team's terrible guys get injured, elevate them up and then he has no practice squad eligibility. But he probably shouldn't be a 53 man roster player yet. And then he like can't get a job. Well, they changed those rules. Now it's like Jason Peters at 40 years old is on a practice squad. So you can be on a practice squad I, I, I think in perpetuity. I'm pretty sure you have unlimited eligibility. Don't quote me on this, but it's like 280 grand. It's like 15k a week. Here's the problem. If I make the team, if I'm an NFL, you know, a second year player and I'm, I'm either going to make the team or go to the practice squad. If I make the team and I play week one, even if I have the minimum salary, which is like 900 grand, that salary is guaranteed for the season. So I'm guaranteed to get 900 grand. Whether they cut me because I'm not good enough or I keep playing all season and obviously if I do well, percentage of snaps and different incentives, I can make more money. But if I'm on the roster week one and I play in that game, my salary is guaranteed. If I. If I don't make the team and I'm on a practice squad and whatever that number is, it's like it's gone up over the years. Let's say it's. Let's just say for argument's sake it's 250 grand over the course of 17 weeks. I'm a day to day player, so whatever that number is, 13, 14, 15k a week, I am not guaranteed week to week. I can be cut at any moment for $0. Obviously if I every week I make that much money, but I'm not guaranteed the next week. So it is a life of injuries. They need different people. It's a numbers game. You might just get cut because they need the roster spot, not because they don't even like you. And you don't typically travel. You obviously don't play in the games. You basically work, you know, you help service the starters on the scout team. You're part of the meetings, you know, like usually most teams, let's say you win and you get Monday and Tuesday off as a player, you usually come in and lift and work out and recover or whatever. But there's no practice or whatever. You just start watching film on your own for the Wednesday morning kind of, here's the game plan. You show up to that team meeting at 7:30, 8 o' clock in the morning, you know, like every other player, no different Miles Garrett or George Kittle or whatever. And then if you break off into meetings, you go with your position group and then when you go to practice, you know, you go with that position group to practice. And then as the different periods of practice go from individual to group, you might go with. If they need you to service people, starters, here goes the backups. You basically just do whatever you're told, but you are not preparing to play. But you should be. Because at any moment, if someone gets injured either in practice or through the week, they could elevate you up. And then once you're elevated up, if it's past week one. Your salary is not even guaranteed, going from 15k a week to 900k a year, which, whatever that math is, let's say triple, 30 grand a game, be a little more than that, 40 grand a game, I can still cut you the following week. A lot of people have started on practice squads and work their way up, but you got to be pretty intrinsically disciplined and motivated because you're not really in the mix. You're doing a lot of scout team, but all of a sudden scout team can turn into like the head coach, the gm, the assistant coaches really paying attention, and then you get an injury. And the head coach sitting there with the offensive or defensive coordinator, he's like, you got any ideas? He's like, hey, middle cough has been dominating us on scout team. We take a look at this guy, what do you think? And the head coach like, okay, I'll pay a little more attention to it. And maybe that's how it starts. Obviously, if you've been drafted by that team, they know a lot about you. Sometimes you just pick a guy up, put him on practice squad, and a couple of weeks later, like, this guy's better than I thought. It's. It can be difficult depending on the team though, to really stand out in a practice.
- [62:35]
Jonas Brothers
Number one hits, millions of records sold awards, sold out tours. You think the Jonas Brothers are satisfied? Nope. It's podcast time.
- [62:42]
John Middlekauff
We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.
- [62:46]
Jonas Brothers
Hey Jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one, Paul Rudd.
- [62:50]
John Middlekauff
You know, Steve Carell is a great singer. Didn't he tell you not to audition at the office or something? I told him, whoa, we were filming Anchorman. Clearly I was the idiot. Thank God he didn't listen to me, right?
- [63:00]
Jonas Brothers
Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [63:07]
Theo Henderson
Mainstream media is full of crude depictions of the unhoused. Stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a monolith. We the Unhoused is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host, and for years I've created a space where the unhoused and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed unhoused parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers, veterans, the LGBQTIA community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. We in House is a two time Webby and Signal award winning show with many exciting guests. On the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Jill Wicheric, a street doctor turned influencer whose work with the unhoused community has made a huge impact online and in her community. Listen to we the Unhoused on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [64:09]
Akilah Hughes
Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is getting a racist statue removed, and here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is getting a new one put up in its place. As long as there's a politics of
- [64:21]
John Middlekauff
race in America, there's going to be a politics of remembering the Civil War. To get to school, I had to
- [64:26]
Theo Henderson
go down Robert E. Lee Boulevard.
- [64:28]
John Middlekauff
Get to the grocery store, I had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway. If you're a historian and you leave
- [64:33]
Akilah Hughes
out half of what the history is, you're not doing your job. I'm Akilah Hughes and Rebel Spirit Season 2 goes deep on both of those things. The fights, the politics, the people who won, and my personal campaign to add something to the Kentucky State House that's actually worth the wall space.
- [64:49]
John Middlekauff
We are more than our bodies. We contain essence. We contain spirit. How do you represent that? They are just fueling a fire that is really catching.
- [64:59]
Akilah Hughes
You'll see what I mean. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [65:09]
John Middlekauff
Foreign. How much stock do you put in a first year head coach bump for teams looking to make a jump? What is the difference in an impact of a Super bowl winning coach versus a first time head coach going to a new team? It's a good question. I would say, well, you have a Super bowl winning coach, they just know what they're doing. Like when Andy Reid or Sean Payton or Sean McVeigh or you know these John Harbaugh. When they walk into a meeting room, when they go to set a practice schedule, when they run the off season, when they run the OTAs, when they run training camp, they've been doing it for a long time. Like the 49ers and the Rams are getting ready for Australia. Sean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan have been head coaches for 10 years. So when they build their practices to lead up to that kind of weird travel game, those guys are pretty comfortable doing something that is a little uncomfortable. Where when you're a first year guy like Ben Johnson last year, you know you're good. You know you're an excellent offensive coordinator, but you've never been the Head coach, you got to deal now with more of the defense. You got the defensive coordinator you're dealing with. There's kind of a feeling out process. But when you're taking over for a guy who's not good at his job, it's easy to stand out. And then, I think, you know, like Dan Quinn, his first year in Washington, the energy. I think energy can be a big thing. Positive energy. Oftentimes I don't have a great answer for that one, to be honest with you. Because every first year head coach is so different. Sometimes you're setting the foundation. Like when Dan Campbell took over the Lions, they were so bad. He was just kind of setting the foundation for a couple years later, they're in the NFC championship game. Lions and Michigan fan here. Just curious, do you think JJ is getting too much crap for his play and recent attitude? I felt like at Michigan or. Excuse me, I felt like Minnesota had to have drafted him further for the person that he is and his resilience on the field. Nothing I saw in college made him look like a starting NFL quarterback. Shouldn't the Vikings be getting torn apart for thinking they could develop him? And it's seemingly falling apart at this point? I think they are. I mean, I think it's. It's one of the biggest disastrous situations in the league. They drafted him in the top 15. They had a team that had just won 14 games. They had a team that was 60 minutes away from being the number one seed. And he was objectively, like, by all the metrics, terrible. And the eye test was worse. So. And now he's by all accounts, going to get beat out by Kyler Murray. So I. I think they've been getting destroyed. So what? The general manager got fired. In regards to a question, though, he basically gave me all these compliments. I don't need to read them. It's about my Philadelphia Eagles. I'm pretty pessimistic for the most part. Shocker. Even during our super bowl runs. But this season, I feel a little bit more optimistic than usual. I think the west coast system will be a decent change. And I think Jalen will prove himself even more this season with or without AJ Am I crazy for this level of optimism? Well, their team on paper is fantastic. I mean, it is. It's been that way for four years. They have, when healthy, an excellent offensive line. They have Saquon Barkley, who's a year removed from one of the great seasons in the history of the league, Dallas Goddard still on the team. While they no longer have A.J. they draft a guy in the first round, they bring over multiple veteran guys. Devontae Smith's proven to be a high level NFL wide receiver and this offense is wide receiver friendly. Their defense is loaded. I mean, I guess it's got a couple holes, you know, pass rush, but I mean they drat. They signed and traded for Jonathan Granard who had a two year stretch where he had 25 sacks. So to go with the defensive tackles, Jordan Davis got in way better shape. They got good linebacker play, they got excellent defensive backs. Yeah, there's they should be a playoff team. And the thing with Jalen who going back to Oklahoma is just a lot of his success has been shotgun, has been gun runs. My two questions are this, will he just embrace this offense which everyone's saying the right things now, but let's see once they get into the games and will he use his mobility more? If he gets back to running, he becomes a complete player. He's never going to sit in the pocket and pick you apart like Joe Montana. It's not his thing. But he is a fantastic dual threat quarterback. And I, Russell Wilson got this way because I actually think there's some similarities to the way the scramble ability, the deep ball accuracy is. Russell no longer wanted to run in Seattle. He like wanted to be Tom Brady and it felt like Jalen kind of did that too. You guys are not Tom Brady. Tom. Tom can run. You guys can. Especially Jalen. Jalen's running is fantastic. He's a natural at it. He doesn't even take big hits. So if he gets back to that, then yeah, I mean I think they could easily win the division again. Yo, big homie, don't have a question. Just wanted to say love the pod. Love your style. Don't change for corporate America and fuck the haters. We have to worry about corporate America because I guess we do partnerships with other corporations. But that has had no impact on anything I've ever done. I appreciate the kind. Note we will end on this. When coming into the league, Aaron Rodgers had a very odd, had very odd mechanics that McCarthy got out of him. Apparently the Steelers are quote, retracting Drew Aller and retracting Drew Aller. Everything about the quarterback position, reenacting, retracting. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say, even though I know what you mean. I'm not, I'm not sure the word matches up with what you're trying to say. I think they're basically breaking him down and reteaching him. I think You, I think you meant to say reteaching and it said retracting. That's what you meant to say. I would say the difference of Rogers is Aaron Rodgers in college was really good. I, I forget if it was his sophomore junior season, but there was a game against USC when Pete Carroll and they, they hadn't lost a game in forever where I think he completed like 25 straight passes and Cal easily could have won the game. Like Aaron Rodgers went toe to toe with the best team in college football and was slicing and dicing him with his arm. Now his, mechanically, he just, he kind of held the ball up above his shoulders. It was a little weird, but just from a accuracy standpoint, natural thrower. The football, he just needed to reteach. Like you don't need to hold the ball up there. And I forget. I know he's talked about this before. Exactly the reason Tedford had him doing that Drew out just wasn't that good at football. That's the problem with Drew Aller. Aaron Rodgers was a really good college football player. If you put Aaron Rodgers at Cal on the Penn State team these last couple years, they probably win the national championship or don't lose to Notre Dame last year and don't have the season they had this year. So I think it could be. There's two angles of this one. I, I don't think you compare the two situations because Rogers was a much more. He's a much better player coming out of college. I do think McCarthy though, is proven to be really good with quarterbacks. So if you want to be glass half full on this Drew Aller thing, which I'm out and most people I know in football did not like the pick and think that they crazy overdrafted him. They, they do have a guy that's quarterback whisperer, might be a little strong, but he's, he's pretty natural with that position. If you would have said Mike Tomlin had drafted Drew out, be like, what a waste of a pick. You could convince me there is a scenario in an outcome where this, where he becomes like a serviceable backup. Because there are some teams, if they would have drafted Drew Aller, that you could convince him he's out of the league in like two years. Like a Hackenberg type situation. But I'm not big on taking a guy in the third round and then having to reteach him the position. Like the Eagles took the dude from Nigeria in the seventh. Okay, Okay. I could take a guy in the fifth or sixth round in a bad draft. Third round pick. It's not. I mean, got some other needs on this team to reteach a quarterback. I thought that pick was kind of crazy. I. I really did, but. Omar Khan, baby, have a good day. Talk to you tomorrow. See you. The Volume. Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We. We. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.
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Akilah Hughes
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