← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - NFL organizations are worth SO much, Eagles bring back Joe Douglas, International games
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Podcast Host
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John Middlekauff
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John Middlekauff
What is going on everybody? John Middelkoff three and out Podcast how are we doing? Hopefully everyone's doing well and we're going to talk a little football today because we had some news coming out of the owner's meetings. We have A lot of people are still talking about Brock Purdy. Is he overpaid? Is he underpaid? Are we sure that all these guys aren't a little underpaid? Quarterbacks and coaches in general? The Eagles hire a former gm. I think it speaks to what we've been talking about when it comes to that franchise. The Bengals still at a staring contest with their first round pick. Everyone's participating in rookie minicamps and OTAs, yet they can't figure it out. And then of course, a little mailbag action At John Middlekopf. At John Middlekopf is the Instagram fire in those DMs and get your questions answered on the show. Appreciate everyone that fires the dm. If I've missed your dm, make sure to either bump the your message because a lot gets lost in the shuffle. It doesn't. It's not like an Excel spreadsheet where I can kind of put it in order. It's just, it's kind of hard. If I click on it can get lost. So if I if you've asked a question, I haven't gotten to it over the last couple weeks. You can just go back in there and bump it if you want it red. And we're going to need you because it's, it's, it's the off season, the heavy off season. So I still appreciate Roger Goodell and the owners making some, making some news. So we got some football stuff to talk about. But if you subscribe to Collins podcast and that's where you found us, appreciate you make sure you subscribe to 3Now podcast separate because we do content that doesn't get uploaded on the feed. Also YouTube channel. Everything we do goes up on the YouTube channel so you can watch us video wise if you would like. But before we dive into some football talk, you know, I got to tell you about my friends, my partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game Time. Listen, do you want to go to something? Do you want to go have a good time? Do you want to go to a baseball game? Do you want to go to a concert? Do you want to go to a comedy show? Do you want to get out of the house? That's a huge thing. As the sun comes up, obviously, you know, I live in an area where the sun's always out, but if you live in the Midwest, if you live in the northeast, internationally, in an area where the weather is turning around for the better, listen, sometimes you're like Friday night, Saturday during the day, at night you want to get outside, go to an event. Nothing like baseball in the summer. Have a beer, get some sun. If you want to go to a concert, get outside, maybe a festival, sing some songs, dance around, you know, have a few, you know, whatever strikes your fancy when you're out and about to have a good time and do it on us. I'm here to save you a little money with the best ticketing app known to man. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account and use the code John Johan For $20 off your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem the code John for $20 off down the Gametime app today, last minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. You know, it's funny, anyone who invests in the stock market and just keeps an eye and reads things about the financial institutions and how they deal with some of these big Fortune 500 companies and what those individuals in charge of those operations get paid and are compensated, not just the CEO, but people on the board and the money that flows into their pockets. Yet when you look at the NFL, and I would say this, at pro sports in general, the players are revenue Sharing partners with the organizations, with the. The entity that are is the leaks. And if in the NBA, it's 30 teams and the NFL is 32 teams, and for every dollar that comes in on a certain. Under the umbrella of what categorized as shared revenue, we split it, you know, 49, 51, 50, 50, 51.5, 48.5, whatever the individual deals are, yet the owners collect that money and then the players have to fight for it. It's kind of crazy. Like the deal I have with the volume, like I don't have to fight for the money that is negotiated in the contract, right? Yet as a player, whether I'm Brock Purdy, whether I'm Micah Parsons, whether I'm whoever I am, I have to have an agent who fights for amount of money that is allotted for me. Now, we can negotiate how much that's going to be. And the better the agent, the better the negotiating, the more money I get of the pie that is allotted for me. So it's not an easy position to be in. Despite the money that is flowing, you're guaranteed to make money as a team, right? And I just saw the 49ers today shattered a record for being the highest valuation in the history of the sport, because a lot of these teams are now selling a portion of their franchise to get a cash infusion. Jed York, I think, just sold like 10% of the 49ers and got almost $900 million because the franchise was valued at 8.6 billion, which breaks the previous record of the Eagles, where Jeffrey Lurie did the same thing for $8.3 billion. So it's for most of these guys, an incredible investment. And, you know, Jeffrey Lurie bought the team, the Yorks and Jed and his parents, who technically own the team, Jed is kind of the acting CEO and managing partner, got the team because they're, you know. Jed's mother's brother, Eddie DeBartolo, got caught brown bagging a politician in the late 90s trying to get involved in some riverboat gambling in the South. And the feds were on that politician and got in trouble and had to divest his interest in the team. So it's not like they purchased it. They got it because of, you know, some Donnie Brasco shit. And I was thinking about it, because I actually was checking out YouTube this morning, and I saw Chris Sims and Florio, like this video they had posted, how coaches are underpaid. And I started thinking, and I've been saying this for a while, if I have a franchise worth $8.6 billion. Let's use the Chiefs, for example. I don't know their exact valuation. It would not be as high as the Niners or the Eagles because of the market. But relative to how good they are, Mahomes, and it's rolling, it would be pretty freaking high. Let's say $6 billion for the Kansas City Chiefs. And Andy Reid, who is. When you have an elite coach like Andy, obviously Patrick Mahomes, If I could choose, and I would probably say this to Andy, if I could choose Andy Reid or Patrick Mahomes, I would take Patrick Mahomes. But there is not another player on that team. Chris Jones, old Travis Kelsey, Trey Smith, you name it, that you would take over Andy Reid. Yet Andy Reid, let's just guess, makes 15 to 18 million dollars. Where you know, in these other line of work with these billion dollar corporations, the CEO, which Andy is, I mean, when you're the head coach, you are in charge of everything. And like we just said, I mean clearly the value of that individual, Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, Jim Harbaugh, you go around like their importance, Belichick forever is pretty important. Nick Saban at the college level, Kirby smart now. And those guys don't actually make nearly what they should. And I actually think the way that it comes out, like no one knows how much Nick Sirianni makes is not ideal for their business model of trying to get paid more. And I know Jerry had mentioned when he hired Brian Schottenheimer that at one point in time in his life he desired to be a coach, but they didn't make any money. And he said, looking back, if I knew what they would make when I'm paying them now, I would have been more interested in the profession. And I'd argue that they are still really underpaid because look at Sean McVay. What's he worth to the ramps? 30, 40 million dollars? Like would you rather have some other coach just take your chances on hiring someone random or pay Sean McVay what he's making in double his salary? And like we just talked about the quarterback position. Whatever Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are making is a deal, right? I say this all the time in the NBA. Like the amount of guys making max contracts is pretty laughable. There are countless guys on max contracts. If they disappeared tomorrow, no one would notice. And then there are guys like Steph Curry and LeBron James, what they bring to the table, not just for their franchise and the valuation of that franchise, but for the league and the television ratings, you could triple their salary and it probably wouldn't be enough. Right. You could take every salary in the WNBA and give it to Caitlin Clark, which he's brought to the table and she would probably be underpaid. And Brock Purdy, we make such a big deal over how much money he make, how much was he going to get? Is he going to eclipse this guy? Is he going to be below this guy? Like in terms of the value what he means to the 49ers when you just factor in that a couple years ago they swung and missed on a quarterback high in the draft and gave away three first round picks. If he hadn't come along, all these guys would be fired and the 49ers would be in shambles. I'm old enough to remember when Jim Harbaugh showed up to San Francisco. They played at Candlestick and they were doing everything possible to try to get a new stadium. Then his first year there, they went to an NFC championship and then the momentum was gained and they got a stadium in the heart of Silicon Valley that took the York's net worth to a different stratosphere. And when I saw what Jim Harbaugh did last year, whatever Jim Harbaugh is making from the Chargers, he is vastly underpaid. And I'd say the same thing about most quarterbacks. Listen, what I want to a tongue of Iloa as my starting quarterback. I would not. But his value to the Miami Dolphins, yeah, they can't win a playoff game, but they can't win a game without him. They can't function. So I'm guilty of this. We bitch and moan all the time. It's like, oh, you're really going to give to a $50 million? This is crazy. Well, relative to what they have, they are completely, you know, what if he's not around because we see year in, year out, when he goes down and they put whoever in, it's a wrap. And to me, and listen, Dak Prescott originally, when he signed his first contract, it's like, guys, you drafted me in the fourth round. Then Tony Romo's back broke and I saved you guys. And I think there's an element to that with Brock Purdy. Like I'm still giving you guys a discount, but never forget without me, like if I hadn't been here, y' all would be screwed and let's face it, probably be out of a job. So. Well, yeah, Kyle, you're probably underpaid. You would have been fired here a couple years ago if I didn't come through. So I do think that we spend so much time talking about this. The value of the quarterback, the value of the coach, and then we kind of bitch and moan when they get paid. And listen, this is an exercise that's never going to change because it is a salary cap league. And how much you pay these guys does matter. I think the problem is, is when you pay a guy like, you could easily justify, you know, that if two is your starting quarterback, you can win nine or 10 games if you do a good enough job building the team. Like I. When we saw that happen to Trevor Lawrence, I'm like, I don't know about this. That seems a little crazy to me. Now, you could probably argue both sides. My issue is when you pay a guy that you don't even know if you can win with. And when I say win, I don't mean the super bowl, because winning just regular season games is how these franchises make money. And if you're in the playoff every single year, like, you're going to have a very, very lucrative business where in a business model where you can't really fail. But there's a way to make way more money, and that's just by going to the playoffs every year. Ask the packers and ask the Steelers, like, why their franchises are worth so much money in smaller markets. Because they've been winning for decades upon decades. We talked the other day about, like, listen, we can nitpick Sirianni all we want. He can't call place. You know, he's a young offensive coach that cannot call place. Which, yeah, I mean, that's a little bit of a head scratcher. But Mike Tomlin has never called the defense for the Pittsburgh Steelers. John Harbaugh doesn't call offense or defense for the Baltimore Ravens. Never has, never will. And we applaud those guys. It's like, well, they just win. And you look at Sirianni and his records, like, well, this guy just wins. And it just dawned on me yesterday, and if you listen to the podcast, we talked a lot about it, like, he really benefits just like those guys from an incredible infrastructure. And it starts with the owner. And today, or I guess within the last 24 hours, it was announced the Eagles are bringing back Joe Douglas after just losing a couple guys to the, to the Raiders. And who knows, maybe there'll be more announcements. They've lost several people from their front office. Now, granted, the Eagles have one of the bigger front offices, and if not the biggest in the NFL, well, what does that tell you? Their owners Spending a lot of money. And last year, what happened when Vic Fangio got out of his deal? He made Jeffrey Lurie, made him the highest paid coordinator in the NFL. What happened this year when Joe Douglas was available, which in NFL circles, personnel moves usually happen in terms of hiring after the draft, they hire Joe Douglas and it's not like he's getting paid from the jets anymore. Remember, his contract is over. And this gets back to the difference, the way to separate in the NFL because everyone abides by the same rules. We all have the same amount of cap space. We all have the same amount of draft picks. We just get to pick and choose how we want to allot them. Do we want to trade for a player? Do we want to pay this guy? Do we want to. We could do whatever we want, right? The Atlanta Falcons chose next year to not have a first round pick because they wanted James Pierce on their roster. Don't blame him. I mean, I do. I think it's a stupid trade, but like that's their prerogative. They're allowed to do what they want to do. So I think Jeffrey Lurie has really, really taken advantage of his situation by just spending a lot of money when it comes to coaches and front offices. And that's an easy way. Like this is all in the margins, right? The difference of Everybody in the NFL, especially the top six, eight, 10 teams, is really, really small. We've seen like how close these playoff games are against the Ravens and the Bills, against the Rams and the Eagles, right? These, it's a play here, a play there. So it's really, really small at the highest level. And you got to take advantage of where you can just like in any line of work. So all these teams are flush with cash. Some people just spend more of it. I mean, look at the Bengals. They are in this staring contest right now with. I've defended them a little bit with the Trey Hendrickson thing. Older player, it's just, it's just complicated. It just. It's not black and white. Just give them an unlimited amount of money. I understand both sides, but the Shamar Stewart, they're starting OTAs and he's still not practicing. Like we're at the point now. This is kind of embarrassing. Every other first round pick participated in, in rookie minicamp. Now that OTAs are starting, a ton of guys have already signed their contract. These contracts are slotted. The only negotiation is just the cash flow. You're paying them no matter what. So whether it's an extra 2 million in year two or the following year, you're giving them that money no matter what. And it's all based on precedent. So the agent can only argue what's happened previously. And if the previous years have had it happen, then you just give it to them and you move on. Because at this point in time, when you're talking about a rookie contract, all these franchises are worth billions. You have guys on your roster now, Jamar Chase, Joe Burrow, making hundreds of millions of dollars. So you are arguing over a million or two, right? At most, three or four million dollars. He's the, whatever, 17th pick in the draft. So the total value of the contract isn't even that big. It's like, listen, living with Maria and watching her in real estate, the amount of people that argue, it's like, you get to a number, we're offering 850 grand. They want it for $875,000. And they get to like, I'm at 865, you're at 872. It's like, guys, you're going to let a deal worth almost $900,000 fall through over three or $4,000, which, the way a mortgage is set up, you won't even fucking notice. And it's crazy how often this happens. It honestly, it really is. And occasionally one of the sides will realize, like, what are we talking about? Let's just get the deal done. Because in the grand scheme of things, it's a tiny, tiny, tiny number. Now, if you just say $2 million out loud, that's an enormous number to 99.9% of people. But the way the NFL is structured, the way the Bengals are structured and what we're talking about here is laughable. And to me, like, perception oftentimes does become reality. And then I think when you finally shake it, and it's like, hey, this guy, you know, used to be an asshole, used to be selfish. It's changed his personality. He's a much better guy now. You should give him a second chance, right? Whether that's dating him, whether that's employing him, whatever it may be. How often you've heard that with, you know, your wife's friends, your girlfriend's friends, your. Your people in your life, whether it's people they work with, it's like he's a better person now. You know, he just. He's done some self reflection. He's just. He's grown, he's matured. I think we tried to start saying that about the Bengals a couple years ago, and then they find themselves back in A situation like this, like, there is no way to really defend. Like, these are embarrassing moments and these are like the Trey Hendricks thing situation is not always avoidable. Complicated. I was reading the other day because I was like, well, you were the guy that signed with the Bengals originally. Like, you got into business when they gave you a massive free agent contract years ago, and then in 2023, he signed a one year extension. Why? Got more money. Got more money. Then obviously kept playing. Well, outperformed it. Now they're at the staring contest. But originally, like, you had all these other options they were offering the most and you were willing to get into bed and get into. Joe Burrow didn't have a choice. Jamar Chase didn't have a choice. T. Higgins didn't have a choice. They were drafted by these teams. You became a free agent and once upon a time you said, you know what? I'll sign up with these guys. And then being there, you signed an extension on that original contract. So it's like there are a lot of variables here. The Shamar Stewart thing is like you drafted me. Here are the rules, precedent of the contract. Like, you want to dance, let's dance. But this is what it is. And I just think their mindset, and I've said this forever, once you're cheap in life, it doesn't change just because you have money. Once that is embedded in your soul, in your core. Like Tiger woods didn't grow up with any money. One of the most famous stories about Tiger woods with the Navy steel stuff was when he took all the Navy Seals out and after training with them in San Diego to cheeseburgers at a local restaurant. I forget the number of people that he took out. Let's just pick a number. 10. And the bill came and Tiger wanted to split it. It's like Tiger, and notoriously Tiger was, and I've heard stories about Michael Jordan as well, are just cheap. They were cheap when they were 10, they were cheap when they were 20, and now they're cheap when they're 50 or 60 and they're super rich. It doesn't change. It's in your soul. I'll believe this till the day I die. Just like people that are giving people, whether they are poor or rich, it's just, it's embedded in them. You have it at a young age. And I think the Bengals, that organizational philosophy starts with the family. They view their franchise through the lens of back in the 70s and the 60s, because that's when they got into it. I said it forever about The Spanoses, they came in with the mindset of like the financial setup of the 80s or whenever they bought it. It's like guys, it's the 2000 and tens. And if you're going to keep employing these average coaches, you don't get to complain when you lose just because you want to have a low paid coach. Like that's going to lead to poor results. And finally they realized it and they gave Jim Harbaugh a lot of money and look what happened first year playoffs. This year most people, a lot of people are going to pick them to probably win the division. So I just think the Bengals, man, this is who the family is like. 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Dan Flores
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John Middlekauff
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Dan Flores
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John Middlekauff
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John Middlekauff
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Dan Flores
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John Middlekauff
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John Middlekauff
Goodell I listen. I don't mean to toot my own horn. I don't pretend to be some genius, but you can see this one coming from 90 miles an hour or 90 miles away. This is was as clear as day and the breadcrumbs have been laid, Roger Goodell said. I do see us having 16 overseas games in the next five years. The NFL is going to have an international package. They're going to have an international package. 16 straight weeks at 06:30 Pacific Standard Time in the morning. It was inevitable. We knew it was going to happen. And when he says five years, guess where the negotiating window is for their new television deal, 2029. So they're kept adding these international games. They're putting together a package where Amazon, Netflix, cbs, Fox, who knows? I mean any entity can bid on this thing. You are going to have like Thursday Night Football a it's not technically prime time because it's in the morning, but a by itself game package where you're not competing with anyone else. That's the power of Thursday Night Football, Sunday Night Football and Monday Night Football. There is no counter NFL programming. It does not exist for as awesome and as big as the CBS and Fox game of the week are in the afternoon, a lot of times like Fox does have another game going on. So if it's Packers, Vikings is Tom Brady and Kevin Burkhart and that's a huge game and going to do millions of viewers. The 49ers might be playing Arizona Cardinals also on Fox on the second tier. Right. Well, you don't have to do that with this package coming up. So I would imagine this is going to be a massive new revenue source and feels like a lock now. I think the international games, like, I understand what they're doing of building the fan base and that's a big deal to the streamers because you can stream a game from wherever. This is not local Fox in Arizona that I can watch the Cardinals. Like if the Cardinals are on Amazon prime, like, I can watch them in Australia if I want. I can watch them in Germany. I can watch them anywhere. Think those people get him? I can sign in Amazon Prime. Maybe I need a vpn. But obviously Netflix is a worldwide company, so Roger Goodell is telling you, so get ready because this is something, you know, for me personally, like, I'm not really looking forward to that. Like, it's, I've had like, I have enough football in my life. I don't need that extra game on a Sunday. But like, I'm not going to argue over it because it's inevitable at this point in time. Okay, before we get out of here, let's I want to welcome you to Chasing Challenges brought to you by Microsoft. In the NFL, just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say bring it on. This week we're discussing the challenge faced by football because the NFL is all in on flag football. They are allowing the pros to play in 2028 Olympics in in flag football. Safe to say I would like our chances if guys like Kyler Murray or Saquon Barkley or Justin Jefferson are allowed to play. But I think one challenge for the NFL, speaking of streaming, is growing the sport. Growing the sport not only domestically but internationally in football. And I've heard a lot of people say this, which is clear, like in basketball, even in the pros, I can get 10 pros and we can have a pickup game in the off season, even if it's not quite NBA standards, we can get really serious, call fouls and play the sport. In baseball, as long as I got a pitcher and a batter, I can just do simulated batting practice in football shorts and a T shirt. Like I'm not actually Playing football, right, you need a helmet, you need shoulder pads, you usually need referees. Coach, you need a lot, right? You can't call your own PIs. That's not the way it works. But flag football's always been an element of, like, it's actually pretty easy to play. We've all kind of done it. And one thing the NFL has done a really good job of, I would say, over the last half decade, becoming like this mix of sports meets reality show, and just its importance in the culture has been adding a huge, huge female audience. And one thing they have been pushing is trying to get flag football into high school. And not just in high school, but for girls. Well, if I can get a girl. The reason football is so popular in America is because by far. And it's got a lot of different reasons, but by far, of all the high school sports, the most amount of kids play football in their youth. And if you play something, usually just pay attention to it. That's usually when you become a fan or if you're young, you become a fan, you want to try and play it. And if I can open that up to maybe some people that aren't physically big enough and don't feel comfortable getting tackled, and obviously girls that don't play tackle football, it just adds to the business model. So the challenge for the NFL is like, how do we keep growing? Have we peaked? They never think like that. That's how losers, like, aren't you. Aren't you rich enough? Just stop. If you get on the Internet, people always tell you that, right? To other people, like, yeah. That's usually not how winners think. When you get aggressive, you get extra aggressive. And the NFL has proven that time and time again. They see an inch, they want a mile, and they go pedal the metal 100 miles an hour every step of the way. And the league has never been more popular. There's never been more people watching, and they want more. Because in business, you're either growing or you're dying. Obviously a huge challenge for Roger Goodell, who has to take into account everyone in the NFL, all the coaches, the GMs, and the players, but also try to drive the revenue. So all those guys who always want more money, it's like, that money's not just going to come from this guy. Well, this is clearly an area. I mean, the flag football with the NFL players is the headliner, but flag football is something that they're all in on. And the challenge for the NFL is like, how do you get more people to watch? And the way to get more people to watch is to get more people to play. So that's it for this week's chasing challenges. Remember, Microsoft's AI solution empower you to make bold steps and informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com challengers to learn more. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of.
- [35:12]
Dan Flores
Programming that goes beyond the game.
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John Middlekauff
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Dan Flores
Programs only on Vice TV.
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John Middlekauff
Go to vice tv.com to find your cable channel. Okay, Mailbag time at John Middlekopf the Instagram fire in those DMs get your questions answered here on the show. Very, very easy to get involved. We need your participation this summer and DMs open for anything. Obviously football, but you know, fire fire. In any other thoughts you may have, we will start with Will longtime listener and love the show but I hate your opinion of the Falcons. They have whiffed on quarterbacks since Matt Ryan retired. How are they supposed to win your respect with Mariota and Desmond Ritter? You say it all the time. It's a coach in quarterback league. With that logic I'd rather swing at Kirk Cousins than see one more game of that. You never call out other franchises who have quarterback issues as soon. You never call them dog shit franchises. Did I say that about the Falcons? As soon as that position hits all of our problem go away. It's a quarterback problem. The offense is stacked and if Pennix the new pass rushers can be decent they will run the NFC South. I pray to God every night before I fall asleep that they finally shove it up your ass this year. You know, let Diddy watch on that one. I would say this, that my lack of respect for the Falcons is how they run the organization. And ever since kind of the Dan Quinn Dimitrov thing fell apart and the Arthur Smith font, no crew. And then through last year with Raheem who everyone was bullish on and thought like oh he's going to, he's going to change the world. And listen, everyone likes him. I don't know him personally but McVeigh, Kyle, these people swear by him. Everyone that knows him thinks highly of him. He's a guy to root for. And then they come in, they desperately need defense. They fall in love with Michael Penix after they give cousins 80, $90 million guaranteed. It's like that's a poorly run operation because if they could do it again and they knew they were going to draft Penix At 8, they could have just signed a random quarterback for 5 or 10 million dollars and allocated those funds for Wilkins from Miami, signed some defensive high end players because they had a bunch of money to spend. But they were like, fell in love with Cousins and then their draft process was all out of whack and then they clearly fell in love with Penix where Penix was not. Some like didn't need to sit. This isn't J.J. mcCarthy. There's a 24 year old kid who'd been starting in college forever. Plug and play guy who I'm high on. I like that player. But like the previous year you went into like you're going to start Desmond Ritter, like what are we doing? And you could say it's a quarterback problem. Yeah, it's a quarterback problem. But like that was like you're going to go into the season with him starting. I also think the four straight year or three straight years of drafting offensive skill guys, I like B John Robinson, like I get it, like he's, I think he could be one of the better players in the NFL but like drafting the tight end who can't block anybody, then the next year taking Drake London who's a good player, but it just doesn't feel like they have any organizational philosophy. Their owners, 85 years old, worth an ungodly amount of money, putting himself in the hall of Fame, in his own hall of Fame, like he's kind of just in his own little world. Who again everyone likes the guy. Sure he's a great guy but when it comes to football I don't think it's safe to say they know what's going on. So like do I think you're like a dog franchise? Like clearly it's a high end, lucrative operation. Sweet stadium, some history with the franchise but like I feel like the people driving the bus right now don't know where they're going. And we someone asked like how. Why do some teams have an identity and some teams don't. We talked about this with the Steelers starts with the owner. The Eagles starts with the owner. The Raven starts with the owner. It's pretty rare that like the crafts. I don't think really they know what's going on but it doesn't matter. They had Bill forever, right? Then they get Brable, who learned under Bill. So it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I think you guys. Now, who knows? If Panics is good, like you said, maybe you'll be solid, but run the division. The reason the Bucks are good is because, like, the glaze, like, yeah, we don't really know what's going on. Once upon a time, we gave it all to Gruden, and now we give it all to Jason Light. Jason Light's better than anything you got. And like, this is football. While it's very complicated, like, it's kind of important. Who's running your franchise? Like, they got Baker Mayfield, but who's running the franchise? Jason Light knows what he's doing. I just feel like you guys don't know what you're doing. I mean, honestly, the trading a future first round pick for a guy who, like, again, these aren't my opinions. Was off boards. Been well reported. Texting around people, they're like, it wasn't on our board. It's like, what are we doing? How? And you guys aren't good enough to take like, questionable people. Hell, a couple years ago you had the chance to take Jalen Carter, but it's like a little too questionable. And now you're taking questionable people. It's like, you haven't won shit since then. What changed? How big of an advantage, if any, is knowing the other GM in an NFL trade? I'm a huge Rams fan and it seems like whether less need is dealing with the coach or GM who previously worked for the Rams. A really good deal for the Ram seems to materialize. Getting Stafford from the Lions, the first rounder we just got from the Falcons now that Gladstone is in Jacksonville. If we deal with the Jags in the future, would Snead have the advantage of knowing Gladstone's tendencies or vice versa? Also, my 4 year old son is addicted to watching golf. I've never played around in my life. You have any tips into getting him started? I'd appreciate it. I would just say take him to the driving range, get him a set of like little kids clubs and have them go whack some balls. We'll see if he really likes it, you know, so I would do that. Get him a putter, get him like a driver and get him like a little iron and just take them to like a public driving range and have him go whack away. I would say on the Rams thing, you know, I would agree on the Falcons trade I mean that was. Every GM in the league would have made that trade for less needs. So I don't know if they just took advantage of desperation. I mean, Raheem Morris is one of McVeigh's best friends and he's a defensive guy, so clearly he wants that player. I would say on the Stafford thing, I mean they gave up two first round picks and you know, Goff obviously now would be very valuable, but at the time wasn't. But they included. So they got Goff and two first round picks. You know, the Lions had their choice like the Niners and the Rams. Both really wanted Stafford. Both were offering two first round picks, Jimmy Garoppolo or Jared Goff. And they benefited because Holmes had been from LA or worked in LA and knew golf. So yeah, I don't know, he just. Clearly all things are just working out in their favor now. Granted, like last year, you know, it's crazy. And this is why I think you got to be careful. And I'm guilty of this, of this draft sucks. This draft's good. Or even my buddies in the league, like, I hate this draft. I don't know what the Niners were doing there. I didn't love this. I love this. I remember last year, it's like, God, the Rams traded that much to get Braden Fisk. I remember talking to people that thought that was pretty crazy. I mean I, I think that's a pretty good deal. Look, it looks like after one year. So I just think we never know, you know, I think the Stafford golf trade is just an all time win. Win. I mean, the Lions do not regret that they traded Stafford, who didn't want to be there anymore. They ended up getting pick six that they turned into Gibbs and Laporta. They got Jared Goff. So I think it's kind of, I think Jameson Williams too, if I remember correctly. Yeah, I mean I wouldn't put that one underneath the like fleecing for the Rams. But I hear what you're saying. I don't know, I mean, I would say Gladstone, I'd want to do a deal with him because that, that's a pretty easy deal for the Browns to do. And I like Travis Hunter, but holy shit, I'm not a 49ers fan, but I remember you saying you would play hardball with Brock Purdy and giving him 200 plus million would be a mistake. Well, he didn't get 200 million in guarantees, but man, that contract is insane. Didn't hear any reporting about negotiations going back and forth like last year. With iuk, it might be Monday morning quarterbacking, but it seems like trading IUK was. Seems like not trading IUK was a mistake. And the Purdy contract feels risky, too. When the state of an unproven roster. What are the 49ers doing? And have they lost their fastball? I mean, I've said this over and over. I think they got a deal. I mean, ideally you would have got like Baker Mayfield's contract, but it's pretty clear they were never going to accept that. And after the last three years of. I would say no team had three consecutive years of holdouts, some years, multiple players, the Niners didn't want to deal with that. And I don't think Brock Purdy wanted to deal with that. It's why I respect Micah Parsons, who's just showing up to practices. It just makes getting everything done easier. Just show up, make the other person want to do a deal with you. I think sometimes the holding out, I'm not against holding out, but it just creates, especially in this day and age of media and social media, just such a shit show. The IUK thing was an embarrassment. And I think the 49ers, once they got to training camp, he could deny trades because the only way a trade would go through is he had to accept their terms. So, like, they were trading him away and he kept saying, no, I'm not signing the Patriots. I'm not signing with the Browns. What they should have done is traded him before the draft. It was a huge mistake because by then he probably would have accepted once he got to training camp, he had his heels dug in. And clearly, I mean, they would have traded him at the combine, but no one will take a guy with a shattered knee. Now, I'm not saying that the deal's a disaster because he got injured. No. 1, you can never predict an injury. But like, that was a. That was an embarrassing moment for the 49ers. It truly was. And everyone, the Mayokos, the Kawakami's, the Barrows, all the guys that cover the Niners closely, I mean, well, reported that was something that made the 49ers, they didn't like that. And they've been through tough contract negotiations, but Purdy was never going to do that. I think there's a little bit of a reward for saving their ass. Now, you can say, is that great business or not? I mean, I. But he did. And I also think this, that when you factor in that brock Purdy got $50 million less in total guarantees than Dak Prescott, like That's a pretty big win. That's a pretty big win. Now I'd argue that they were never going to give him Dak Prescott money, but like that contract exists and I don't think there's much difference between the two, especially when Brock's younger and moves much better. So yeah, I would say that I, you know, in the day and age of quarterback contracts, I would say that that deal is pretty normal. You know, really is. Now it's a win for Purdy. It's a ton of money, right? But I think for the 49ers, they probably at one point in time prepared like if this thing got ugly, we would have had to pay more.
- [47:30]
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- [48:01]
Dan Flores
The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat Eater founder Stephen Rinella.
- [48:31]
John Middlekauff
I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the Ice Age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves.
- [48:41]
Dan Flores
So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today.
- [48:53]
John Middlekauff
Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [49:01]
Podcast Host
I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no.
- [49:16]
John Middlekauff
Across the country, cops called this Taser the Revolution.
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Podcast Host
But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.
- [49:23]
Dan Flores
Cops believed everything that Taser told them.
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Podcast Host
From Lava For Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolut Season 1 Taser Incorporated.
- [49:42]
John Middlekauff
I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad.
- [49:48]
Podcast Host
Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2 and 3 on May 21 and episodes 4, 5 and 6 on June 4 ad free at Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [50:10]
John Middlekauff
I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Lodd and this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Sir, we are back in a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just the compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne for Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher, Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got Be Real from Cypress Hill, NHL enforcer Riley Cote, Marine Corps vet, MMA fighter Liz Caramouche. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs Podcast Season 2 from the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. I know you primarily cover. I hate the word cover because I'm not like a reporter. I know it's just a most of you don't care about like the semantics of my job. I just watch games and give my opinions on them. I wouldn't say cover, but listen, that's maybe an insecurity of mine. I hear what you're saying. I'm not putting it this isn't your fault, but I'm wondering if you ever got into the NHL with the physicality, pace of play and effort. It seems like a sport. You'd mention more in your podcast Go Canes. I've gotten into it more the last couple years I that whatever their all star thing I for I forget the name the four nations. I mean it's that usa, Canada. Those two games are two of the better sporting events any Sport I've seen in recent memory, I was glued. Have nothing but admiration. I think I view hockey like I do mma. I don't really watch mma and I know some of you that like get all the pay per views. I respect the living. I couldn't have any more respect for what it takes to get in the Octagon. How big of a badass all those guys are. I love Dana White. I love that operation. I admire how they handled 2020. He was the first guy to be like, fuck this. A lot of people followed suit and I just. I admire a lot of things about the mma. I don't watch it. I would say similar with hockey. Like I respect the living shit out of the players, how hard it is to play that sport, how they all are missing teeth because they're all getting pucks to the face, how tough you have to be to play hockey. But I just don't really watch now. I will pay a little more attention like to the final four here. I would love to see Edmonton win. I made a mistake. I put $1,000 at 10 to 1 on the Capitals and I thought about splitting it, going 500, 500 on Edmonton. I obviously a huge regret. I wish I just would have put that on Edmonton, who was like 18 to 1. I think the caps were 10 to 1 in your canes. Just beat the shit out of them. I remember watching last year I had the Vancouver and watching Edmonton take them down. I would love to see McDavid win it, but I don't pretend like I'm not a huge hockey guy. I just don't really. I only have so much time in my life. I spend so much time watching football in the fall and golf Thursday through Sunday, you know, basically year round, which I consume. But definitely with football, I don't miss really many golf days besides if I'm out playing. So I just, I don't know, I just only have so much mental energy to put in. Doesn't mean I don't have a lot of admiration and respect for the sport. I know you're not a big soccer guy, but you're a Niner guy. I'm from Glasgow, Scotland and my rival team, the Rangers, I'm a Celtic guy. He's talking. Soccer is in the midst of a takeover from the 49er enterprises. Curious to see if this is gaining any traction at all in the States as it's massive news over here. The takeover should be complete soon and sadly means the Rangers might actually be good enough to compete. I suppose my question is two Parter one, Have you heard of this news at all? Two, Based off your knowledge of running an NFL franchise, how would you see the enterprise running a huge European soccer team? P.S. if you get any time, read up on the old firm derby, biggest and best rivalry in Sports. Well, the 49ers bought years ago a franchise called Leeds. And I think they just within the last couple months qualified and they had done this before for the Premier League. Again, they had been, they had qualified for the Premier League and been knocked down and now they're back and they threw a huge like parade in the area. And you know the 49ers have a unique setup, right? Like Howie kind of runs point on most things. It's not like he negotiates every detail of every contract, but ultimately nothing gets signed off without him. The 49ers, like John lynch, they have a cap crew that's kind of run by Parag, who is Jed York's right hand money guy. And Parag runs point on the soccer. And I know Parag a little bit. I haven't talked to him in a while but like Leeds was a huge passion project of his and he used to tell me like they were a sleeping giant and they have brought people from America to run it over there and it's, they've done a good job. Like they take it really, really seriously. So if he is heavily involved in this, I would imagine it's going to work. I would bet on it working. I think what they've tried to do is like, obviously you know, the Glazers or Stan Kroenke on some of the main teams, like to get a main team now you need billions of dollars. I think they have tried to like buy sleeping giants and resurrect them. Obviously it's just cheaper to buy. It's like, I remember Coward told me years ago, he's like, if you can afford it, it makes more sense to find a home that you can remodel yourself than find a home that's already been flipped and they're adding 50% to the sticker price because you're paying for their remodel then to make a profit on. And it's like, yeah, it's why the house I'm living in right now was a full gut job. But the house would have been worth double if the person before me had done what I did to it. So it actually saved me money. And I like think that I look at the way the 49ers operate, you know, they try, they're not trying to find a Deal necessarily. They're just trying to find something with a lot of upside. And the way you just described it I would imagine is the way they viewed it. And Parag is good with money. I want to know what you think about the quarterback win stat. For example, a lot of people in the media mentions Joe Burrow beating the Chiefs when Mahomes throws two picks. But when a guy like Allen goes nuclear against the Chiefs, he just can't get it done. Should Josh play some edge rusher next year to help on defense? I think a lot of the media elites, the the over educated group that always loves any sort of a narrative to shut down because the people pushing that aren't intellectually, you know, their capacity isn't quite on their level. And I view this as a classic. Like the media love saying quarterback wins are not a stat. I would agree in an individual situation. In a playoff game you can lose a playoff. Aaron Rodgers has lost playoff games where he's played well earlier on in the McCarthy era he played well in games, the defense was atrocious and they lost. That's happened. But you could not be a good quarterback over the course of five years and have your team not win a lot in the regular season. Now individual playoff games you can play crappy. One play can determine it. Josh Allen has played well in a lot of playoff games in which he's lost. I would say Patrick Mahomes has played average in some games that they've won. Right. So it's like totally agree. Playoff quarterback. Playoff wins shouldn't be a stat. But your win loss record as a regular season quarterback does matter, right? It just does. Like I actually view last year with Joe Burrow winning nine games was pretty impressive. But I hate it when people go quarterback wins is not a stat. Well, bullshit. Over the course of multiple years it for bet your ass it is. Why do we think the position's so important? Because if you're a good player, you're going to win a lot of games. I don't care how average your team is unless you're playing on one of the worst teams ever. Like if you put Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow or Lamar Jackson on who just drafted number one? The Titans. Yeah. Actually they probably would have won like eight, nine games because they had a good defense. They would have been good. Big fan of the pot. I'm a die hard Browns fan, which sucks most of the time. But they seem to always leave you with slivers of hope. For example this year I don't expect them to win many games. However, there's the hope that these two rookie quarterbacks in Gabriel and Sanders, that they could be the guy we've been searching for. But in my opinion, they have to play these guys as much as possible to figure it out. There's the answer. Given that we have two first rounders in the next year's draft and good talent coming in at the quarterback position, what are your thoughts on the Browns floor and ceiling for the season and do you think they should start one of these two rookies and forget about Flacco and pick it for 2025? I think I saw a headline today that Mary Kay, who is basically the encyclopedia and Walter Cronkite when it comes to the Browns knows all reported that the first team reps starting at OTAs will be Kenny Pickett and Dylan Gabriel. My guess is that with the ones that Joe Flacco won't get any reps with the ones during OTAs and that's smart. He doesn't need any. All the reps should go to because Kenny Pickett might be your starting quarterback. I don't have an issue with that, but I think Dylan Gabriel who was drafted above Shador, totally get that. And Shadore Sanders, like give them reps right now and then in training camp you have some idea, bring them back and give it a week, kind of rotate. Whoever's playing better starts getting more reps moving forward. But you could argue don't even start Joe Flacco. I think it's actually when I just came out of my mouth. I think what makes it difficult to do that at least week one or week two is that if everyone on the team thinks he's the best quarterback, it's hard to look Miles Garrett and some other guys I almost dropped like some other names like yeah, Nick Chubb's not even on the team. Is Amari Cooper on the team as Amari Cooper signed that mark who was signed anywhere. But you know some of your veteran players, they're trying. They're playing their ass off and if they think that Dylan Gabriel Shador Sanders starts week one, they're not the best quarterback. They're not going to love that. Now you can easily do that like after a month, but I would, I guess. Amari Cooper was traded last year. The Bills, huh? I listen to it every day. Really great stuff. I'm a little confused on the narrative that Stafford is significantly better than Purdy. Last year Purdy and Stafford had almost identical numbers, but Stafford had less, had four less picks. Stafford also has the benefit of having a better defense and healthier offense than Brock. Yet Brock and him had the same stats. Also, Brock is significantly better runner than Stafford. Everyone says they would take a 37 year old Stafford over 25 year old Purdy and it truly makes no sense to me. Is it because Stafford has a ring and Purdy doesn't? Well, like for the next five years you would have to take Purdy. If I had to play a big game on the road in the elements, like Purdy has been awful in rain and cold. Luckily he plays in San Francisco and he avoids that. But that game that Stafford had against the Eagles in that snow, shitty weather, like I have zero faith in Purdy can have that. So in a one game scenario I would take Matt Stafford. I would also say in a one game scenario against the best competition, I would take the 37 year old Matt Stafford. But over the contract that Purdy just got, I would give that to Purdy over giving it to Stafford over the next four or five years. Right. So I think in a short, short window Matt Stafford on an individual game basis is a better player. I think Matt Stafford at times last year is a top five quarterback in the NFL and I just don't think that about Purdy now. I also don't think Purdy's like the 20th quarterback but I think Stafford's a better player. Now if they were the same age like Stafford is in a different universe as a talent. And if you gave. There's a reason that Kyle Shanahan wanted to trade for him when McVay ended up getting him, he wanted him. Why? Because Stafford is a special, special player now. He's older and beat up. But. And there's a reason they're going year to year. But I think when it just came to a one game basis, if all the marbles were on the line, there's only a couple quarterbacks in the NFL. If they're all healthy, I would want over Matt Stafford. Okay, last question. What do you think? Why do you think the NHL is always the fourth most popular North American sport? The product is clearly much better than the NBA and the players actually care about the sports and the games. What does the NHL have to do to get more popular? We talked about this with football. Every single human I knew growing up, whether you played in high school, whether you played in junior high, whether you just played pickup, had played a little basketball because most people at one point in time in their life just shoot baskets, play pickup hoops, watch basketball on television. It's an easy Sport to play wherever you live, Right. I've. I've only lived in one cold area place in Philly for a couple of years. Other than that, I've lived in areas that it does not snow. Arizona, Fresno, the Bay Area, Davis, San Luis Obispo. So what you play in high school, what you grow up playing in when you're young, is to me what you usually gravitate toward. Usually die hard tennis. People like in junior high, high school, if you play in college, probably pay attention to Wimbledon, right? Why? Because they played it. Like, why do I like football and golf? Well, I've been playing it when I was young, so I liked it. And I still like it when I'm 40. Just like I like it when I'm 50 or 60. Where a lot of us all over the country, if you live in the south, if you live in Texas, if you live, you know, on the west coast, you're not in freezing cold temperatures. Where's hockey? Big Michigan, Minnesota, the Dakotas, where it's freezing cold. Canada, Russia. So like, it is a very geographically specific sport where baseball, basketball and football are played in all those areas as well. And hockey is just not that popular, I would imagine. If you go to Texas or you go to north or South Carolina or Florida, I know they have pro teams there. But I'm just talking about, you know, people playing lacrosse has become more, more and more popular over the last 20 years. Right. But where is it the most popular in the Northeast? So like, the more and more people that are young, that play directly benefit the sport on television at the highest level. And more people, way more people in America play basketball or have played basketball than have ever played hockey. So I think that's a huge. And it's just, it's a, it's specifically, it's played on ice, where I also think, like every generation now, basketball is a way bigger sport, but it also has like just massive superstars. When I was a kid, I grew up on Michael Jordan. And then we've morphed into LeBron and Steph. Those are three of the biggest. I mean, Michael's. In my lifetime, the biggest athlete of my lifetime is Michael Jordan. And I would put Steph and LeBron on the short list. Not named Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Tom Brady. I mean, it's just Wayne Gretzky is a very, very famous individual, but like, he is by far, I would say the most famous hockey player still to this day. There's like a Ruthie in quality to him. I know Sidney's big Ovechkin's big, McDavid's big. I don't even think they approach Wayne Gretzky when. Wayne Gretzky, when's the last time he played hockey? 20 plus years, when he retired late 90s. So I think if you are going to have a lot of people that don't play, you're going to need an absolute superstar. He retired in 99, so he hasn't played in 25 years. I mean look at Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan hasn't played since 2003. That's the year I graduated high school. I'm 40 years old now. I would say Michael Jordan, I mean, is as famous as ever. I mean his shoes are more popular. Never every single person. I would say most people in America that just follow sports, you just say Michael Jordan. I mean it feels like he's as famous as he's ever been. I would say the other thing is how many people do you see wearing Jordans now? I mean they've become, listen, call me old school. It's not like I wear suits very often. I think wearing tennis shoes with a suit is a fucking ugly look. I think it's a trend that I'm just not behind and I don't pretend to be, you know, the trendiest individual, but I think it's a terrible look. But it's really popular and it's just really popular. Just I would say Jordans in general, people wear them all over the place. Wherever you go, you see them. And I guess just a long winded way of saying I don't think there's much hockey can do. I think there's a weather dynamic there that's tough to overcome and won't ever be overcome. It doesn't mean like if you turn on a playoff hockey game, it's not. If you like sports and competition, it's not an incredible product. I don't know. I would say the same about baseball and basketball. Like you, you turn on Knicks, Pacers, it's going to be a war. You turned on Denver and OKC a lot of those games. Like this is incredible competition. And it's like we just know, like I don't really know. I follow sports for a living. I. It's like the only thing I've ever loved beside like my family most of my life. And I don't really know the rules. Like icing kind of get that like some panel high sticking, like can you not throw the puck? Like I don't. Baseball, basketball, football, I think it helps to. All these games are somewhat complicated. There are some rules I would say most sports fans like understand what they're watching. It's what makes like trying to watch stuff you don't know. Like if I throw on, trying to pick a random. So like cricket, you know, it looks kind of cool, but I got no clue what's going on. None. You could argue that's easy to follow about golf. Like pretty basic par, birdie or bogey. It's like hit it out of bounds, you got to re hit, get in the water, you got to drop. It's, it's not really that complicated. You know, football is really complicated, but we've been watching for so long, we have a, somewhat of a pretty good idea of mostly what's going on. Baseballs you could argue is the most basic. Get three outs, get three strikes, four balls, you know, you got nine guys to bat and you just rotate. Got nine innings, you got four bases. So I think the, the ease to understand everything helps too. So I, I think there are probably a lot of dynamics. Again, respect hockey, but I, I'd be lying if I said like I was super locked in about it. The volume AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further, faster, unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers. You know springtime means the sun is out. And that means we're all going outside. 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