← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - NFL vs NBA Draft Mindset, Burrow & Bengals Outlook, Bucs Steal & Mailbag
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the volume. What is going on? My people? How are we doing? I'm John Middelkopf, even my full name, and it's three and out podcast Today. We're going to talk some sports because that's what we do here. And I was watching Victor Wembanyama last night. It got me thinking about the draft and young players. So we'll dive into that. Joe Burrow had some comments, Jason Light on how they landed or Reuben Bain really fell into their lap and how that kind of transpired. We'll talk Green Bay packers, their GM had some comments and we'll probably do a big mailbag because I got a lot of mailbag questions and I'm going to need a lot of you guys throughout the off season. So the easiest way to interact with the show is just firing those DMS at John Middlekopf. At John Middlekop is the Instagram. DMS are wide open. Fire in them and get them answered here on the show. So again, it's just my name on Instagram. DMs wide open. Get involved and I'm gonna try to answer as many questions over the course of the next couple months as humanly possible. But you guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out and if you want to watch us run a Little place called Netflix and you can set the alerts and you never miss an episode. So let's just dive into the show. But Victor Wembanyama, you know, in basketball more than football, because in football all the time you have, you know, I don't follow. I used to follow high school recruiting much more closely. I, I pay attention to it now when I'm watching college football and they say, oh, this guy was a five star or it's like, hey, this guy's an all American. Now. He was under the, rated under the radar, three star, right? Or this guy transferred, you know, Fernando Mendoza went to Cal. His other offer, I think was to Harvard, Yale, you know, I wouldn't say Ohio State and Alabama were beating down the door for services. Or in basketball, you hear about prospects like AJ debonza, Victor Wembanyama, Zion Williamson, I was watching Zion Williamson clips on. Was it vine or definitely Instagram. He had highlight reels made when he was like 15, 16 years old. So the, the hype on basketball players, and mainly because they can be one and done and go right to the NBA and have success is a lot different than football. It's pretty rare in football where you go, yeah, this guy probably doesn't need to stay in college. Like Jeremiah Smith after year one at Ohio State, he could have come out and been, I, I don't know if he would have been a lock top five pick, but he would have gone in the top 20. He was ready for the NFL immediately, right? Jeremiah Love a couple years ago could have come into the NFL. I remember when I was at Fresno State, I got there, Ryan Matthews, true sophomore season. And physically he was every bit as big as every NFL running back beside like Marshawn lynch and Adrian Peterson. Physically he was. Now he actually got injured a lot, which was ironic because he looked like a Greek God. But his look didn't change in the two years I was around him. And then when he got drafted in the top 15 to replace Ladanian Tomlinson. Some guys are built ready to roll. Jadevion Clowney, we're in basketball. It's like this guy's ready to go, you know. Now some guys are late bloomers. Not everyone is on the same path when it comes to a draft class. But regardless how great your talent is and Victor Wembanyama, I do think it's safe to say is one of the most unique prospects and young players the NBA has ever seen. He's like 10ft tall. He, he can, he can dunk without jumping. He can shoot threes not last night, but he's incredibly skilled. But the hard part about pro sports, especially when you get name recognition or you start having success, everyone comes gunning for you. And once you pass one level, you kind of just level up to the next, you know, to a more difficult path to where you're trying to go. And for him, it's like MVP candidate, boom, second round. We're going to take on OKC next round. And who knows, maybe we just win the championship this year. And then Minnesota Timberwolves, who are wired like a 1990s NBA team, they got a football mentality. You know, Anthony Edwards once famously said his favorite sport is football, that they are a physical ragtag, like they want to get into a boxing match on the basketball court. Even Rudy o' Barry's the soft Frenchman. I watch him, he's pretty damn good, you know, play for my team. I watched last round against Jokic, looked pretty good to me. And it was really, really hard for Wembanyama. He was getting shoved around. It was like, yeah, this isn't going to be easy, bro. Rightfully so. This shouldn't be easy. And football a lot like basketball is. Once you show up, especially when you're a high pick, everyone's gunning for you. And physically, a lot of these guys are far superior than anything that they faced at the collegiate level. I've told this story before, but Marvin Harrison was a guy that dominated at Ohio State. And it has been very, very difficult for him so far in the NFL. It's not because he lacks physical talent. It's not because he doesn't have the, the athleticism to run routes and get open at this level. It's like a mentality. And I remember a buddy of mine in the league said it could be a tough transition. He's not used to getting bodied on a weekly basis at the line of scrimmage in that conference. How many NFL DBs does he face throughout the season in the Big Ten? Iowa had a couple in Michigan, but you're facing Rutgers, Maryland, Minnesota. Not exactly rolling out Deion Sanders and Darrell Rivas in those units. So mentality wise, like these guys are coming for your lunch and as it was described to me, he's going to face the DB every single week. The majority of them have been to pro Bowls, live in mansions, drive Range Rovers, have a couple kids. These are grown ass men who, who are bringing it and are, are making it a point to embarrass you. And that's part of pro sports, right? So these guys that get drafted. I, I like this class, the top end guys, especially the Ohio State guys, right? Sunny Styles. As you know, I, I text multiple people throughout the the league that said he might be the best linebacker prospect I've ever seen. Now, I'm not talking to guys 60 or 70 years old. I'm talking to guys in their late 30s and in their 40s. So we're talking about Luke Kes, Roquan Smiths, other linebackers that were drafted really high. And their point is, I'm not saying this guy's going to be better than those guys, but as a prospect coming out of college, he's superior. And Sony style is going to show up, be the starting middle linebacker for the Washington commanders immediately. Week one, what if they draw the Eagles? It's like you're getting an offensive line with Mult1 hall of Famer, assuming Lane Johnson on the field cup multiple other Pro Bowls, right there on the line of scrimmage, a quarterback that can run and a running back that when he's healthy is one of the most talented guys we've ever seen. And they're going to run it right at your ass. This ain't Iowa. This ain't the Sharon Moore Michigan group. This is a team that two years ago won the super bowl and they're coming right for you. Can you shed the block? And that's what is so that's week one. And then as you start to figure it out, there's a transitional process. You get better and more confident because I don't care what you do. You know, I first just got into football. Some of you guys get into finance, some of you guys get into the restaurant industry. Some of you guys get into construction. Obviously these guys are all public figures, but regardless, when you first get a job in your early 20s, the expectation there is, there is some grace. There is a little bit of a period where it's like we're going to let you figure some things out. We're going to hold your hand a little bit. Our expectations for you aren't going to be that high. Hell, we'll even maybe give you a year. Most young professionals are aren't held to the same standard as the veterans in their company. No different than Sonny Styles won't be held to the same standard as he'll be head to held to in a couple years. Reuben Bain gets an easier rookie year than Max Crosby will be judged this year. Right? The expectations are different, but after a while the expectations rise. Jeremiah Love There is no disputing if he was An NBA prospect like he's been an elite prospect for a long time. And if he didn't play running back, he played wide receiver, he played left tackle, he played quarterback. Might have been the number one pick in the. If you played quarterback like Jeremiah Love that his position is better than Fernando Mendoza at his position. He's better than David Bailey at his position. He just plays running back. So he doesn't go one or two. But if he played their positions, especially quarterback, he would have been the number one overall pick. But two years ago he played on. You know, I was going to say the second best team in the country got pretty lucky that Drew Aller threw it right to his DB with the game kind of in hand. But obviously one of the better teams in the country two years ago last year, Notre Dame obviously was really good as well. Right. I know that they lost their two meaningful games, which ended up keeping them out of the playoffs because you couldn't keep Miami out. And Miami obviously earned that bid by making a run to the national championship. But they went 10 and 2 and it was a disaster, right? Getting left out of the playoffs. They quit the bowl game. But that's what he's used to. I mean, most of these guys, when you look high in the draft, David Bailey transferred to Texas Tech and they were immediately in the playoffs. And if their quarterback wasn't me or you, they could have beat Oregon like that. That defense was elite. Fernando Mendoza transfer some Cal hasn't lost a game. Last 16 games he played, he won them all. So all these guys, like you could have a shitty season. Ohio State had a down year because they weren't in the finals, you know, because they lost the Big Ten championship game in a, in a gut wrenching loss to Indiana. They still had a buy in the first round. That shows you like the expectation for a lot of these guys. These guys are used to winning. Caleb Downs is like, I'm leaving Alabama to go to Ohio State. So you get to the NFL, it's really, really hard. Like I said, Sony Styles first week or maybe it's, hey, you're playing the Dallas Cowboys and you're getting a bunch of offensive linemen. They were all drafted in the first round. You get a $60 million quarterback, you're getting Dak and George Pickens running routes behind you. And you got to cover Ferguson, who's probably one of the more underrated players in the league. And if Javante Williams look like he did last year, he's coming at your ass with his shoulders lowered. And it Just, you just got a match because there's no disputing what you earned to be drafted that high based on your talent in college and your potential moving forward. And then this training camp starts and the season starts and you. You just got to produce and you got to play well and you got to improve. You know, Victor Wembanyama, as this series goes on, like, listen, there's only so much he can do from a strength standpoint against some of these guys, but he's just got to match their mentality. And I think that's all that you want out of a rookie class. And then as you get older, Bo Nick's a good example, was drafted really high. Sean Payton, I don't want to say attached his career to the guy because he has enough equity. If it had gone bad, they probably would have let him pivot and sign someone else. But he's clearly, at least has been all in on the kid. And it's been a little up and down. There's. There's definitely been flashes, there's been games, there's been clutch moments. But once we start talking, it's like, are we going to give this guy a couple hundred million dollars? We need to see more. Can we win the super bowl with you? Because we have a Super bowl roster, we're going to need you to play well. And so the expectations, he's a good example coming into the season, couldn't be any higher. Caleb Williams expectations, now that his team is viewed as good, that his coach is viewed as a star, are going to be. Can you be a top three or four MVP candidate? You don't need to win the mvp, but can you be a top five or six quarterback this year? Because we know you can make the spectacular place. We know you have the physical talent to play at this level. We know you have the clutch gene, but can you have consistent games where we just don't have to get into these clutch situations? Because we're up 20 points, because you've thrown four touchdowns, because your first, second and third quarters were awesome and you didn't need to do that much in the fourth quarter? And that, to me is what's so cool about sports, is that there's just no hiding. And after a while, it's like you just got to figure it out. And a lot of it, you know, is not physically right because a lot of these guys, especially that are drafted really high, have all the physical talent, like Zion Williams in basketball, didn't fail because he lacked the physical attributes. He didn't have the ideal height. But he failed because he clearly didn't work hard. He fucked around, he wasn't focused, couldn't put down the food, which a lot of us struggle with. But if you're going to be an NBA player, I bet if we ask LeBron about his diet over the course of the last 15 years, or Steph Curry or some of these guys, it's probably blow you away how disciplined they are with food. Now. They can get by with a little more sugar because of the calories in which they burn, but you got to take that very, very seriously. You know, when we talk about being a pro, it's not just about like, are you on time, are you at practice a little early? It's how you do things when no one's looking, right? Because a lot of your life isn't just going to be sitting in a meeting or the prax field. Half the year you're at home. You don't even need to come to some of these off season activities because they're all voluntary. It's literally legally not mandated by your business that you have to show up. It's why there's nothing the Browns can do when Miles Garrett doesn't show up. It's why over the last couple years Lamar didn't show up and he technically wasn't doing anything wrong. You know what, is it ideal if they're not there? Of course not. But if he wants to train on his own, he can train on his own. But if you are going to do that, my expectations for you in terms of the way you're treating your body, the rehabilitation, you're going above and beyond. And that is what defines all these guys now in football. Different than basketball. Victor Wembanyama, if he's such a great individual, even if his team wasn't as good, can carry them to heights as an individual that you can't do in football. Like in football, you need the help. Jeremiah Love in a couple years could be the best running back in the league. If his franchise sucks, if his coordinator sucks, if his offensive line isn't good and they don't have a quarterback, he can only do so much. Like, did Saquon just learn how to play football when he got to Philadelphia? Of course not. Right? He had issues beside the injuries because their offensive line wasn't good. Daniel Jones struggled. They didn't have explosive playmakers on the outside. A lot of stuff's out of your control. No different. Sonny Styles, who I I can't wait to watch play football. How good is defensive Line, who's his defensive coordinator? You know, is his offense good? Are they always up in games? Are they down in games? Are we, you know, defending the pass in the second half? Are they just running it down my throat? These, these are all things, you know, at Ohio State, most of their games, they're dominating, right? They have a huge advantage. That's not how the NFL is. I, I think, like, I remember the stat several years ago. It might have changed a little bit, But I think 80 plus percent of games are within one score in going into the fourth quarter. So it's why at the end of the season, you know, the NFL, it's like, well, what do they need to do about tanking? You know, because the NBA, that became such a. A talking point. I don't like the word narrative because it was true. I mean, it was, it was, it was a factual. Third of the league is literally not trying to win games. In football, maybe your last game, maybe the last two games, like the Raiders with Max Crosby, but he needed knee surgery. So it's like they didn't let Max Crosby play because he needed knee surgery. Now, could he have played the last couple games there in a playoff run? Of course. But he still would have needed knee surgery, right? So to me, it's, you know, what the Eagles did several years ago when they benched the quarterback at halftime. That was week 17, you know, and it's not their problem. What you're doing in the NFL, tanking is not really an issue. I've said it forever. It's why we have so many games late in the season. It's like, why this Monday Night Football game is the Rams against the Falcons. That game sucks. I wish the Rams were playing a playoff team. All of a sudden, you look up in the Rams lose, and Bijan goes for a buck 80. Because in football, you have to try. You can't just, you know, in basketball or baseball, you gotta go through the motions. I would imagine if you talk to a major league baseball player, there are some days they're in the outfield and they're just like, I'm not really paying attention. I got no focus. I'm exhausted. Maybe I went out a little hard the night before. It's a day game. The next day, I do not have my A game. You know, in basketball, I mean, hell, you just. The regular season has never been worse. That's the worst regular season, the NBA playoffs. Like, if you watch Minnesota against San Antonio or that Philly Boston Game 7, it doesn't resemble anything. Not that I watch much regular season but it's just become a, because it's become a terrible product and the playoffs become completely different. Football, it's just you don't have any average to below average quarterbacks often in the playoffs. So you're just going to face two guys that are usually highly paid, really good players or a young up and coming star. But I don't know if the game is that much different, right? There's more. Every play matters a little bit more because there's no, it's a one and done scenario. Like a playoff game. Feels like a big Sunday night game against the Ravens and the Bills or the Cowboys and the Eagles or the Rams in Seattle like that Rams, Seattle, those Thursday night, you know, showdown toward the end of the season felt like a fucking playoff game, right? Because in football a lot of games feel like a playoff game because they all kind of matter. And these football players under the microscope, especially these young rookies, is just, I mean, to me one of my favorite parts of of a season is watching how guys ascend, especially young players. It could even be second or third, you know, year players. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock bet, Florida's sports book. Love these guys. Obviously we talk football on the show, but the NBA playoffs is heating up. So with all these win or go home game sevens, these new series starting anytime you want to get a little action. Joel Embiid to get a triple double shade to score 40. You name it, you got it. 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Speaking of veteran players, Joe Burrow who I think the Bengals need a little bit apology would probably be too strong. But they get lumped in as being like this clown organization that spends no money, that just doesn't know what they're doing. I think the last couple years, they've done everything possible to put Joe Burrow in a good position, except one thing. And speaking of that, I think Joe Burrow, I don't know, I wouldn't call him LeBron because LeBron, through Rich Paul, would kind of indirectly make it public, like let everyone know what he wanted. I don't know if Joe really does that, but he clearly does, which I respect directly with them and by all accounts. And this is why it came out when they traded for Dexter Lawrence, it's like signals have been shown. We better figure this out or we're going to have a problem. And Joe, who with Justin Jefferson, couple Bayou Tigers were at the Met Gala, an event that not only will I never get invited to, I don't think you could pay me to attend. He said this. I'm really excited about the moves we've made this offseason. We need to get better. So it was exciting to see the initiative from everybody in the organization to realize that we're in a very exciting stage. We're in the prime of our. We're in our primes playing great football, finding guys like Dexter and Brian Cook and Boye. That'd be Boye Mafe 2. You know, really solidify the defense so the young guys can also rise up. We're really going to try to achieve what we want to achieve. I think he's right because the Bengals front office should be commended. I think they've had one. I think you could argue that Burrow forced their hands on T. Higgins, where it's like. I think most front offices would have thought twice about doing that deal. But the way they financially structured it wasn't crazy. But he wanted them there. They kept him with Jamar. I think he could have allocated other ways, but that's what he wanted, so that's what he got. And I think over the course of the last 18 months, they've done a lot for the defense. We can argue over the Shemar Stewart pick, but they invested in a freak athlete in the top 20 to rush the passer. And then they doubled down on it this year with their first pick because they traded for Dexter Lawrence on Cassius Howell, who played at Texas A and M as well. I think is a much better player than Shemar Stewart, but physically is a little different. He has really short arms, but so they've invested two really high picks in pass rushers to go along with Dexter Lawrence on All Pro. They've given him everything he needs on offense. I had a buddy tell me this who is a pro scout said, listen, Joe Burrow is. When he's on, he's as good as it gets. I mean, when he's on, he looks like a. Probably a little stronger Joe Montana. I mean he's. I think he's played in one of the best games I've ever seen. Two years ago against the 49ers. It was basically a perfect football game. It was one of those you would have seen like the mid 2010s with Aaron Rodgers. It's like this is perfection. But their defense was a joke, Aaron. And now they've added a bunch of defensive players. I think all the pressure this year, assuming these guys stay healthy, which is always a big if in football, is on the coaching staff. And the one question you would have is, could they have got a better coach? Like, could they have been in the business last year when Ben Johnson was available, fired Zach Taylor and hired Ben Johnson? It's like, yeah, you could probably nitpick that people say that about should Jason Light and the Glazer family have fired Todd Bowles to keep Liam Cohen? I think that's easier said than done. But they're all in. And when a team is ever all in, much easier to fire the coaches and the players. And Zach Taylor's clearly been on thin ice a little bit in general. And now I think the pressure on him, his defensive staff. Right. They fired the defensive coordinator a couple years ago who's now in Indy and they bring it out golden. Who had been there before coming from, I want to say Penn State, but it was at Notre Dame. I guess he was he at Penn State. I get confused. He was actually the Temple head coach when I lived in Philly. I think he's a pretty good coach. But like no one's going to want to hear we didn't have enough because this year they've. I've been saying this before the draft, now that you add Cassius Howell to go with Dexter Lawrence, Maffe and some of their other guys, they already had. They're easily right now my pick to win the, to win the North. You look at Pittsburgh, lot of question marks, aging defense. I mean this Roger situation is the ongoing never ending saga that just God damn, no one wants to talk about this anymore. And I mean the last year we saw Mike McCarthy coach didn't go great. Obviously the Ravens have a ton of question marks, new coaching staff. They just lost a bunch of talent that the Browns more than likely are going to start desean Watson, which I think if you wanted to be optimistic is Deshaun Watson. And the Shanahan offense, which Stefanski essentially runs, is not really a fit. When you look at Todd Monkin and what he has done over the course of his career, it actually might be a little bit better of a scheme fit for his in theory ability. So I, I'm not gonna say that he's gonna resurrect his career, but I can see them having some moments assuming he's fully healthy because he's, you know, a lot of people go back and forth like is it unfair? How should door not beating him out? So guys, they're paying him like $60 million. They gave him $230 million. He's, he's been in the NFL for way he should have the advantage if he's healthy. But I think the Bengals all the pressures on their coach and if you tell me that Zach Taylor is not the coach in 2027, the bro thinking they get weird. You know, it's funny, I, I struggle with patience. I have never been a very patient human. And then, you know, you, the Internet and the scrolling and how often your phone's in front of you definitely does not help the, probably the brain chemistry if you're an impatient human. I actually just ordered some blue light glasses. I saw Rory talk about that. It's like if I'm gonna look at my screen and my, my phone and my computer, my iPad, non stop, I gotta get ahead of this to help just any chemistry that's left upstairs. But I've really tried to work now, you know, with Jack and just you get family. Sometimes you gotta slow down. And I think patience in your personal life with your family, with, with your close friends, I think that translates really well to business. Like I, I, I'm always pro being aggressive and putting your nuts on the line and taking big swings in life. But you, you, you have to do it. You got to be measured with it. You can't just do it constantly. That's, that's not a good approach to have. Right. If a opportunity presents itself, sometimes you got to trade pick 10 for Dexter Lawrence. That, that is a risk worth taking. But it's a risk. And the reality is most things in life are a risk. Getting married's a risk. Taking a job's a risk. Quitting a job's a risk. Having A child's a risk. Getting a mortgage is a risk. Welcome to life. And I, I think historically in the draft, we have seen so many examples of a team going. We never expected this guy to be here. We just, we just waited. All of our projections, especially now with AI and these different models and the technology these teams have, they have a pretty good idea. Once you get past pick six or seven, they can run different models and go, there's probably less than a 10% chance this player is ever going to be there. So if you don't, if you want that player, you're going to have to have some things lined up before the draft to go up and get them or be cool with the next cluster of players. And I think that's how, when you're a team drafting 15, 18, obviously in the 20s, you kind of set up the operation. You know, Brett ve talked about it when they got Delane is they kind of had a pretty good idea who the first couple picks were going to be. So they knew their cluster of guys. The couple guys they liked, whether it was Tate, whether it was Reese and Delane of once two of the three of the cluster went up, they wanted to get that guy. They desperately wanted defense. They had to go up and get aggressive to make sure they got one of their guys. But late in the draft, it's like you never really know. And Daniel Jeremiah's told the story when he was with the Ravens about Ed Reed. I forget the player they wanted, but they were like getting ready to trade up and the trade got nixed. And all of a sudden they just took Ed Reed. That's not the guy they wanted. And 10 years later, one guy's a block hall of Famer, I think the other guy was out of the league. Happens all the time. There's a long list of those times or those situations and examples being true. But sometimes life is about being patient as much as it is about being aggressive. And I think the draft's a good example of that. And you look at Reuben Bain, anyone that watched college football, regardless, like, you don't need to be an NFL scout. You didn't need to know his measurables. If you just watched the games, you went, holy shit, who is that guy? Coming off the edge for Miami, really? It was two of them. Both of them went in the first round, both of them high. But Jason light told Pat McAfee that all of our projections, everything that we had when we left the combine going into free agency, not in a million years did we imagine this happening. He's like, a lot of things were out of our control if you think about it. Max Crosby was traded to the Ravens. He said we were going to try to sign Trey Hendrickson, and without saying it, kind of made it sound like I think they thought they were going to sign Trey Hendrickson. Well, then the Crosby trade gets nixed. Obviously, the Ravens get more aggressive with Trey. The Ravens then have Trey Hendrickson lose their center to the Raiders for a ton of money. The Raiders, because they had so much cap space, don't have to, like, nix that deal, and they can just keep all their free agents. So the Ravens add a pass rusher for a lot of money and lose an interior offensive lineman. So then when you, when Reuben Bain falls out of the top 10, I bet they're sitting there thinking, well, the Rams could easily take them because all of a sudden, if you just rolled out young Verse Fisk, Reuben Bain, who is blocking that unit of just constant rotation of young stud pass rushers. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, they take Ty Simpson. And then because of the Max Crosby fiasco, the Ravens don't emphasize a pass rusher. When you watch Reuben Bain play, if you ask me, what type team does he remind you of? I'd have been like, Raven Steelers matchup of like 15 years ago, back when it was like James Harrison against Terrell Suggs. Hello, Dinada. Brett Kiesel, like, kind of that group, you know, Lamar Woodley. That's just kind of what he feels like in the heat of their rivalry in like the late 2000s and early 2000s, when it was a war zone, before anyone had ever heard of cte, before these new rules. And it felt like Mike Tyson fighting Mike Tyson. That's what Reuben Bain felt like. He would have been right up the alley of a Ravens type player. But clearly they're a little more desperate for offensive line, having just lost an interior offensive lineman. And I know this guy's a guard, not a center, but people think he'd probably do both. And they take a guard, and all of a sudden Reuben Baines is sitting there at 15. Like it just shows you so many things are out of your control, whether you're drafting, whether you're dating, whether you're trying to look for a new job. And sometimes it's hard. Like I, I, I. Like I said, I can be impatient. I'm sure a lot of you listening can be impatient. Our society has never been less patient. Sometimes patient pays. And Jason Light, who I think is easily considered one of the best drafters in the NFL. We can nitpick Todd Bowles, right? But listen, I, I like Todd personally. I think there's a lot of pressure for Todd to win. Jason Light is not only on scholarship. He. If he ever became available, there'd be 10 teams lined up to hire him immediately. He's, he's a star. And I'm not just saying that because I know him. It's not like I know him that well. But Jason Light's resume speaks for itself when it comes to drafting. And he just sat there and waited and got one of the best players in the draft. You'd be like, well, his arm length. I think there are some times. Now, listen, Bill Parcell's famous thing was you start drafting exceptions, you start drafting outliers, you'll have a team full of them. I don't think that's really what they've done. Like Vita Vea, Mike Evans, Tristan Worfs, you know, they got a lot of team, they got a lot of guys, blue chip type guys. This is, I think, somewhat of a unique opportunity to get a guy who I can't see failing. Someone asked me yesterday in the mailbag who my favorite first round picks. And I said, I think I said Reese and, and, and Caleb Downs. This would be one of them. Because I think last year, just pound for pound as a football player, you could make the argument, I know Fernando Mendoza accomplished the most. I think, you know, it's hard because Jeremiah Love's season was cut off after they didn't have a conference championship game because they're not in one, they didn't make the playoffs. You can make the argument he was the best player last year in college football, Ruben Bay. And I'd be stunned if, at minimum, he's not really good. There are no guarantees in the draft, but I just, I can't see him failing now. Is he going to be an all pro? I don't know. But he definitely has the mentality. And what did we just talk about earlier? Sports. A lot about mentality. After a while it's like, how bad do you want it? How mentally tough you are? You. How. How do you respond from getting your ass kicked back to back weeks? How do you respond with getting benched week four, your rookie year? How do you respond with playing through an injury that you've never had? And by all accounts, this guy is wired like a badass. So props to the bucks. Really quick on the Packers, I saw Gudikens, I think was on like Sirius XM after the Draft. He said the, the hope and the expectation is to have Tucker Kraft and Micah Parsons back. He didn't say week one. He said early in the season. I think when you look at their roster and I've always been a huge proponent of this organization my entire life of watching sports, they've been good. They just never suck. Like, when do you, when do you ever get to April and be like, oh, the packers are the fourth pick. Oh, the packers of the ninth pick. I think it's. I didn't, I probably could have done the research on this, but beside AJ Hawk, which was, what was that? 06 07? I mean you're talking 20 years. This team feels like consistently drafting 20 or higher. And a lot of times in the mid 20s and in the Aaron Rodgers era, a lot of times like 27, 28, 29. I know Packer fans wish they would have made some more Super Bowls, but you guys were in the NFC championship a lot and, you know, got a lot of bites at the apple. I do think when you look at this roster, there are a lot of unknowns. They let a lot of guys walk in free agency. They traded some players. This is kind of a, I don't want to say a transitional time, but definitely more turnover than they've had in recent memory and they become somewhat of a top heavy team. It's like, well, they just added, well, they didn't add Reuben Bain or Messador or one of the good offensive linemen that went in the 20s or Omar Cooper or any of those guys because they didn't have a first round pick. That is Micah Parsons. Now if Micah looked like he did before he got injured, he was clearly a dominant, dominant force and they are going to need that to continue. They're going to need him to be one of the best players in the league and they desperately need Tucker Kraft back. Because, you know, one, it's weird. You look at the stats from last year, their leading wide receiver was Romeo Dobbs, 55 catches, you know, Wicks, who they just traded to the Eagles, cut 29 balls. So it's not like they had multiple guys 80, 90 catches like they have in years past with the Jordy Nelson's, the Donna Donald drivers, the, you know, Devonte Adams. This is a unit that they're going to need to step up and Tucker is a huge part of that. I think there's a ton of pressure on Matthew Golden. I think they need Matthew golden to be, I don't know, 65 to 75 catch guy immediately next year and Give him, you know, explosive speed with Watson down the field and account for seven, eight touchdowns. This is a team, they're going to need some of their unproven guys to really pick it up. And from a star power standpoint, Tucker Craft's got to be one of the best tight ends in the league. Micah Parsons has to be like a defensive player of the year type guy, which he has been over the course of his career, but he's never come back from an injury like this. I mean, this is a. It's a pretty big thing for a guy whose game is all explosion, all beating you with just warp speed off the edge. So this is the first time in a long time where it's like, okay, this organizational kind of prestige that they've always had, this organizational structure that is withstand or withstood the, the test of decades. From Ron Wolf to Ted to Goot to. To sure Mike Sherman to Mike holmgren to Mike McCarthy, now it's on the floor. Goot, Jordan, love to kind of keep this thing going because the Bears, I think some people think they might come back to earth a little bit. I'm buying. Give me a coach that good. You give me a quarterback who has that level of confidence late in the game. If he just improves in the middle of the game, they're going to be excellent in. The Lions just have too many impact players to keep positions that if they're playing, they're not going to be a competitive team. So I think Minnesota is going to fall off the off cliff a little bit, but I think the packers are just a major wild card. Like, it's hard for me to imagine them just sucking. But also, you look at their roster with some of the question marks, it's hard for me to imagine them just win 14 games like last year. I bet on them to make super bowl and actually felt pretty good about it until their whole team started tearing ACLs. But I have a lot more questions at this time this year than I did at this time last year. At John Middlecoff, at John Middlekopf. Is the Instagram firing those DMS questions answered here on the show? Here's the thing. The off season, my Instagrams are wide open. So fire in those dms. Get your questions answered on the show. Again, DMS wide open. Fire in talk with the people. We'll. We'll answer your questions here and we'll BS and have a good time going into the 26 season, what do you think the best rivalries in the NFL are? He kind of listed Some of his Bears, Packers, Niners, Rams and Seahawks duke it out in the NFC West, I would say currently last year's Bears packers was pretty special. Those are three of the best games of the year. I think Rams, Niners and Sofi in on that Thursday night game. The Thursday night game, Rams, Seattle. I, I think you hit the nail on the head with those games. I think the Cowboys Eagles has been pretty good and I think there's a lot of stakes. I just think especially the Cowboys are better this year. The Cowboys are sneaky, played them really well. You know, they won the division a couple times with McCarthy last year. They beat him in that comeback win. I, I think that's a pretty underrated rivalry. I think if the Patriots can maintain this, I think Bill's Pats could be pretty sick. If Harbaugh can resurrect the Giants, I think Giants, Cowboys and Giants Eagles can be pretty, you know, pretty special. I think the Raven Steelers have lost a little luster. Right? I mean, they just, the Sealers just haven't been good enough. Right. I mean, the Steelers, you know, they're going nowhere. Those games used to really resonate because it felt like they were super bowl matchups. You know, a couple years ago they played in the playoffs and Baltimore won by double digits. It wasn't even that close. So I think in theory that game holds esteem from years back, but like, things change, you know, I mean, part of it was Harbaugh and Tomlinson. That was a huge part of the rivalry was those two guys. Remember? Was it Jacobe? I want to say not Jacobe Brissette, not Jacobe Myers. Jake Some Jacobe. I think he Rip. I think he passed away. When Mike Tomlin came on the field, I, I think there was just something special about those games. It's not quite the same. I think Ravens, Bills had a little more juice, but that's, That's a pretty good game. I, I think, you know, the nfc, the AFC west games are pretty solid, but it's like. Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the best rivalries in the afc. Chiefs, Bills. I mean, it's just a fantastic game when that game's on. Feels really big. It's. It's not apples to apples, but it's taken on a little, you know, Patriot, Colts, just when that game's on, it's just going to be the biggest game of the week. Jags, Colts. Just kidding. Question for the bag. I'm not getting the assumption that Arch will be the number one pick. In 27. As soon as this year ended, I started seeing an influx of mocks that all assumed Arch is going to be the number one pick. In my opinion architecture over other guys who have done much more in their careers like Chambliss and Dante Moore. It seemed to me like Arch was certainly suffering from poor offensive line play, but he also had wildly inconsistent accuracy. He struggled against poor competition and only had a few good games. Is his position in these mock drafts all projection based on the assumption he's going to improve? And do you agree with him being held in such high regards? I think you got to look at this twofold. He did improve. If you put Arch Manning on the picture of your mock draft on NFL.com on ESPN.com on a tweet or an Instagram link, it's going to get people to click on it. If his name was Arch Middle Cuff or Arch Johnson, not Manning, I don't think in a million years we would be discussing him as the number one overall pick. Now I was probably a little too harsh on him early in the season because I respect the out of the family and by all accounts mentally he's pretty tough because he was getting the kicked out of him. He was not playing good but and maybe he had an arm injury and he kind of battled through any in that Texas A M game. He made some big plays with his legs like he was. I, I, I, I'm excited to watch him, but based on last year, this notion that he's the number one pick to me is one of the most insane things I've ever seen. And I've been in the Internet business long enough. It's like whenever someone tweets at me like you're just clickbait, like I, I, I need you to listen to the podcast so if you click. I don't make any money from a social tweet or a social clip. Like that's not monetizing those. They're just for social awareness. If anything, I'm not an influencer on Instagram here, but in what world could you have watched him last year without knowing that he's going to dramatically improve and think he's the number one overall pick? The other thing is we have recent examples now. Fernando Mendoza, who nobody at this time last year was discussing about being a first round pick, let alone a number one pick for a team. When do you think the Raiders decide that Fernando Mendoza was their pick? January. Like he's been the number one pick for probably four months. The game that they attended in Miami With Brady Spy Tech and the rich dudes. I forget the owners, the new owners names, but I know they get a lot of cash. One of them owns Discovery Properties and his partners with Cindy Crawford's husband. I would love to be a member of Discovery Properties. If the guy's listening, I just hit me up because love to get involved. They look really cool, but it's not really how quarterback play works, you know, in other positions. Jeremiah Smith, right, He's been talked about as a top 10 pick since he was like 18 years old. The offensive tackle from. They just transferred to lsu. The five star guy from Colorado, I don't know where he's going to go, but we've been talking this guy as an NFL prospect for a long time, you know, last year. Think about some of the players. We've been talking about Jeremiah Love and Caleb Downs for years. Cardinal Tate went a lot higher than we thought, but we've been talking about Carnell Tate and Ohio State's wide receivers since all their guys have been getting drafted. So I just think sometimes with quarterbacks. Cam Ward, no one was talking about him as the number one overall pick. Then he transfers to Miami and becomes the number one overall pick. Jaden Daniels was viewed as like, I don't know, second, third, fourth round pick. Then he has one of the most incredible seasons of all time. Wins the Heisman, puts up incredible stats and gets drafted second overall. So things change dramatically. And quarterback is more fickle than all these other positions. To me, like if you're viewed right now in an NFL building, it's like, hey, we think the Gar. I'm just going to pick a random player. The, some guard at Oregon right now. He's, he's, he's the best guard I've seen so far coming into this season. Like he's probably going to be a top 30 pick in one way or other. Maybe if he, if he, if he peaks, he'll be the 11th pick and if he has a down year, maybe he goes 28. Peter woods, who the Chiefs took in the late 20s coming into the season, like this guy could be a top 10 pick. Had a down year, team was awful, got picked 29th, right? That's kind of how the quarterbacks. Garrett Nussmeier's gonna be a top five pick, goes in the seventh round. Drew Aller coming off that year where, where they were in the final four. And if he doesn't up, they're in the championship. It's like Drew Aller, he gets together this year, Penn State wins The national championship. He could be a first round pick. James Franklin gets fired. Drew Aller gets injured. He gets drafted in the third round. People think it's insane that he got drafted that high. So you just. Carson Beck last year going into Miami would have been like an undrafted free agent. Gets drafted the second round. Second round or first pick of the third. I think first pick of the third. But you know what I mean, because he helped his sock and in quarterbacks, to me it's a lot like the stock market, very up and down that you just do not know. But there's no way right now unless you're guessing and projecting and the projection is he dramatically improves one. I don't know if you know, there was rumors about some labrum shoulder issue. His throwing motion is weird. There is no way to dispute that. Like Eli had a very natural, powerful arm. Peyton's was. He famously said, I threw a wobbly duck. Peyton was elite. Precision in accuracy, right? I'm watching Arch beside movement and running. What does he do really well now? His team is going to be stacked this year. They've bought offensive linemen, they bought the wide receiver who's probably going to go in the top 10 15. Coleman from Auburn. So they are going to have a loaded fucking team. So that to me adds more pressure. It's like, okay, time to dominate. Still plays in the sec, still playing a bunch of NFL guys. But there's no way beside the name, you could say coming into the season he's going to go ahead of Dante Moore. I've seen Dante Moore do more in college who also has some question marks. You could argue this class that is viewed very, very highly. Right. Dante Moore. We'll see what happens with Soresby Sellers. I think There's a guy, UTSA's coach got the Oklahoma State job. His quarterback came with him to Oklahoma State. I'm surely missing guys. I can't. I can't think of all the quarterbacks. Oh, C.J. carr from Notre Dame. There's going to be a ton of names. You still got to play well because at defensive line or corner or linebacker, you could be like, this guy's probably like late first round pick and have a bad year and still go in the second round. At quarterback when you have a bad year, like you can tumble, tumble. Because most of these guys like a bad character. Quarterback typically is not that bad. So it's really quarterback. The focus is much more on the play because I bet if we just. Dante Moore, Carr, Arch Sellers. My guess is they're all pretty Good kids, good teammates. People like them. I'm just guessing I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt because that's usually how it happens. Most of these guys I, I bet pass the character test. So they're only judged on football where a lot of these other guys like elite talent, but God, kind of a scumbag. That's usually not the case of quarterbacks. Not the good ones. Most of the good ones, good guys. Right. I mean look at the two quarterbacks won the first round this year. Character and teammates, like none. You didn't hear the only thing we talk about, Fernando Mendoza and Ty Simpson on the field. Play it. So I tend to agree with you now. People change and you know, it was his first year starting. The hype was unfair. It wasn't his fault. He, he didn't, as my wife tells me, Jack didn't choose us. We created him. Right. You don't get to choose your parents. Right. We just. He is easily could have been born into a home in Scottsdale. He could have been born, you know, in some other country to some other random family. Might look a little different. But it's like you just. He was born into that family and obviously got the athletic genes right from his brother or I mean not his brother but his, you know, Peyton and Eli's brother was actually the best athlete of the group in Cooper. He was a wide receiver. So he's got the athletic genes but he's in theory got the quarterback skill set. I see people talk so confidently about this and just think, can we just punt the brakes? Can, can we just watch him have a season? I, I would say this and again, I, I hate picking on him because it's not his fault. It's like people on Bronnie, it's like, yeah, he didn't, it's like this is out of these guys control. Is that like he's got to do it and everyone's going to be watching him. Everyone was watching him last year, but then they kind of were out of it. Their season was weird and they just kind of, kind of stop paying attention. The amount of money they spend on that roster, it's like their expectation is going to be like Ohio State or Miami, you know, it's going to be, to be deep in the playoffs. I mean last year the, the year started and they played when they played Ohio State. Now looking back, like that was a really tough defense to play. Trying to look at their football schedule, okay. They open up with, with the Kansas City Chiefs, also known as Texas State. So no expectation there. Throw a couple touchdowns, win the game 40 to 7 and just get out of there. Then they play Ohio State and this is the home and home. So last year you open up on the road against them. Turns out Caleb down Sonny Styles, Reese like they were. They were no joke. That was honestly we might look back, hey, first start against those guys on the road, that's Peyton Manning would have struggled. I'll give you a pass on that. This year the expectation can be a little different because they're going to have a lot of new guys starting on defense, replacing those guys and you're going to have the experience in Austin. That's going to be the average ticket to get in that game. Right now the low the get price is 450. Where Texas state the opener is 100 bucks. I mean a lot of people in that thing. Then they go UTSA who has been good. I don't, I can't pretend to know their roster now. Initial. Just look at these teams are playing like this is not going to be easy. At Tennessee, I think the biggest stadium in the country or top two or 307,000 people, 112,000 people. Then they get Oklahoma, which we know is one of the best defenses in the country. Florida, who should be dramatically improved with John Sumrall who by all accounts he inherited a lot of good players playing Ole Miss that's going to have a lot of dudes returning and be really good. I mean that's. We're not even Halloween yet. And Arches played Ohio State at Tennessee, Oklahoma, Florida, Ole Miss. That's a really, really tough stretch. Mississippi State not great. But then they go to at Missouri who has been a top 25 team at LSU with Lane Kiffin who's going to have playoff expectations. Arkansas probably going to suck next year. And then at Texas A and M who has one of the best defensive coaches in the in the country. So they play, they play Oklahoma and Texas A and M who are going to have two of the best defenses in the country. Ohio State who's probably going to have one of the best defense in the country. I would imagine between Florida and lsu, one of those teams. And Ole Miss is going to be a playoff team. I mean this, this schedule's hard, which makes it fun. I mean makes it entertaining. But he's. Which I respect. And this is Texas going to the sec. You're not just playing Kansas State and Arizona. That's. That's a mother. I know you're not the biggest fan of Stefanski, but if you were Matt Ryan shoes. Was there any better option available at head coach once Harbaugh went to the Giants? Can I say this on Stefanski, I kind of treat. I'd rather have Kevin o' Connell than Stefanski, but I just think everyone loves Stefanski and it's like, okay, I mean, I. He's solid, but he is very headstrong and he clearly doesn't adapt that well when it comes to his offense. And two, he gets very, I would say, tied to a quarterback type. Like, once you take Dylan Gabriel, and by all accounts, Dylan Gabriel is a great guy, but in the history of the draft, you can never take that guy in the third round. For as crazy as Ty Simpson is, if. If I said Ty Simpson's one of the craziest picks I've ever seen. We have seen Mac Jones go 15, we've seen Kenny Pickett go 20, but they were not going to a team as good as the Rams. So part of it was the Rams had the pick, 13th pick they could have taken. Incredible player that that factors in. I, I would say Ty Simpson is physically more gifted than those two guys, just as a player. If I was ranking Ty Simpson, Kenny Pickett, Mac Jones and Dylan Gabriel, I would have Ty Simpson. One, I would go Mac Jones. Two, I would go drop off to Kenny Pickett, and then I would go Grand Canyon drop off to Dylan Gabriel. But you can never convince me they didn't draft Dylan Gabriel because Stefanski was pounding the table because he likes players like that in his offense. Which is actually why I think the Falcons are going to like Tua. I saw Matt Ryan say that we feel that we're in good shape with our quarterbacks. Tua and Michael Penix are his type. Quarterbacks play action, dink and dunk, occasional deep shot. Smart guys, like, know the offense, they can't carry you. But Stefanski types, they don't want quarterbacks that can carry you. And him and Kevin o' Connell a lot different. Kevin o' Connell wants to drop back, spread that out and throw bombs, which in a weird way I respect and I like. I just. Sometimes you need to run it in certain situations. Stefanski is a fine hire. They couldn't have done much worse. One, the other thing I had is how often do I hear Brown's players? And I get, they've lost a lot. This team's been weird. Just go, we love this guy. I love Stefanski. This doesn't feel like, I don't know, there's. I just think something's a little off that's that's my whole point. Not that he's bad, I just I think relative to the hype, I, I don't necessarily see it. Lifelong Titans fan who foolishly is getting excited. I wanted to get your insight into a specific coach player situation. What are your thoughts on the super talented yet underachieving Keldrick Falk with Bob Sala? Given what you've seen of Salah before, what kind of expectations would be fair for the Titans? You know, part of being a great coach obviously anyone successful and this simple reality of life is once you start doing well financially it probably boosts a little bit of your ego and your self confidence. So coaches who are all multi millionaires are just naturally going to have a little bit of an ego and a self belief because they're the guy at the top of the food chain. But then once they're good at their job, they, they, they're, they're. I, I don't know, I don't want to say cocky but they have this belief that they can fix anybody. And if you're going to have a guy in the lat la latter part of the first round, if I go, hey, I can give you some overachieving player who tries hard but might not have the physical characteristics to ever be a high end player or I can give you a guy that has the physical athletic profile to be a pro bowl guy. But a lot of question marks, effort, just production. I think one of the knocks on him in the run game Coaches Robert Sal thinks they can fix you. So part of his what he brings the table is let me get my hands on him. It's like a great artist who works with clay. It's like give me a piece of clay, I'll make you something sweet. Michelangelo, give me a brush. Watch this. Well if the material sucks, if the paint stole maybe it's not going to work. You know you're not going to paint the Sistine Chapel every single day. And I think this gets coaches burned a lot, which I respect. Some coaches, I think there's two sides to the coin with coaching mindset. One, they don't mess with question marks. I was around two coaches in Pat Hill at Fresno State and then Andy who were very let's say liberal when it came to how they viewed problems. Yeah, we'll handle it now. At Fresno State you didn't have a choice. It was the way you could get talented players from these other top programs. Like we don't want to deal with it past like I'll deal with it and Coach Reed is very open minded, you know, when it comes. What type players does he like? Good ones. You know, he would have liked Reuben Bane, he would have liked Jeremiah Love. He would have liked Arvell Reese, he would have liked Delaney. Fucking likes. You can play like what's his prototype? Guys who kick ass and take names. Where if you got with Shanahan, he likes you on the straight. He's got a little Belichick to him. Like I need you to be smart, I need to be double do this. Now obviously coaches want you to be able to understand the playbook, but some guys look at his talent, I'll make it work. Clearly Robert Sala is telling his gm like I like that, let me work with him. There would be a ton of coaches in the NFL that would not do that, that they don't even want that project on their hands. And I, I think maybe Robert Sala, even though Kyle, he's most associated with Kyle, I do think it's fair to say he looks at football players a little differently. And you kind of have to. On defense, it's different offense because it'd be a great defensive lineman. You don't need to be, you know, Peyton Manning upstairs when it comes to football. You just. Do you have the physical traits? Do you try hard? I, I do think it can be very difficult. I have to do a little more research from my scouting buddies on the, on the true question marks of this player. But like it can be very difficult. It's, it's easier to tell a guy to slow down, take it a little easy than it is to give him a kick in the ass. Because I would imagine most kick in the ass guys consistently need the push. Not like eventually I need you to be a self starter, I need you to handle business. But you're not going to need to worry about Fernando Mendoza or Carnell Tate or Jeremiah Love, you know, or the Ohio State guy like Caleb Downs. You think Brian Schadenheimer's gonna have to be on Caleb Downs, about study habits, about being early to workouts, about being prepared for practice. That ain't an issue. But in fairness, a lot of guys you do need to be on, and I've said this forever about followers. Most of us are followers. The majority of people are not like natural born, follow me to freedom. Most people aren't comfortable, you know, even if they had the capabilities of being Steve Jobs, right? Of being Roger Goodell, of being Pat Riley. Some people are kind of born or I don't know if you're born with the leadership characteristics. But as you're a young person, they are kind of ingrained in you. And you start feeling comfortable in that seat. And that's the seat that you desire, that you, you like being at the head of the table. Like, clearly you watch McVeigh, he's pretty natural in front of the room. The Harbaugh brothers were fucking born for it. Their dad was also a coach. So from a very, very young age, before they ever played high level football, GMI in the NFL. John in college, they saw it every day at 5 years old, at 8 years old, at 10 years old, at 12 years old, they just were around coaches. They saw leadership. Some people just aren't that comfortable. I was. I think one of the greatest songs ever played live is the Eagles Take it to the limit. You can YouTube it on night the 1977. It comes right up. And if you watch the Eagles documentary, like when you think of the Eagles, for those of you people that love music, you'd say their two most, you know, famous lead men would be Glenn Fry and Don Henley. Like, when you just think of the Eagles, like those are the prominent members. And then I would say Joe Walsh is behind them. Take the Limit is sung by the dude playing bass, Randy Meisner, who I would imagine the Eagles are one of the rare bands. Big bands, small bands, great bands, successful bands. I'm just talking musicians historically, where every member of their band in their prime could be the lead singer on a hit song. And when you heard that song, it could be one of the. Be considered one of the great songs of all time of its era. Pretty rare. It's like I watched the Red Hot Chili Peppers documentary. Is Flea the lead singer in a lot of songs. Like you watch Nirvana, it's pretty rare their drummer turned out to be David Grohl. Now, he wasn't singing in that band, but if they would have needed to and if he would have been like, this is Grohl's song. Probably been pretty sweet and who knows, maybe lack the confidence. But to, to tie this all together, one thing in that Eagles documentary, Joe Walsh said about Randy Meisner. Because you could argue that Take it to the Limit, that live performance, it's got to be one of their best songs. It, for me, it's my favorite Eagle song. And Joe Walsh used to say because his personality got kicked out of the, out of the band. Glenn Fry and Don Henley, they could kind of be. They were alphas. They were like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. They were. Some people thought they were, but like, they Owned it. And Randy could be just, I don't want to say a pushover, but clearly he wasn't an assertive individual. He just kind of wanted to shape in. And Joe Walsh used to say and said it in the documentary, he never knew how talented he was because you watch that song, you go, is this the most talented member of the fucking band? And I just think that's what complicates all this stuff. When it comes to talent, right? Part of being really talented. And the Eagles are an example of all these guys had. Just when it comes to musical talent, they all could have been all pros if it was football. They all could have been all stars if it was basketball. And musically, you'd argue they were all hall of Famers, but some of them are remembered a little bit more because they were comfortable in the moment. And part of being a really good football player is for most guys, like, you watch Micah Parsons play football, there have been guys with his physical characteristics throughout NFL history that you do not remember. Probably didn't play that hard. When you watch Micah Parsons play, like, God damn, this guy's playing hard. When you watch Max play or Aaron Donald play, you're like, these guys just play their ass off in. A huge part of football on the defensive line is effort, and it's hard to be in great shape when you're bigger. So part of being 270, 280, 290, 300. Dexter Lawrence, 350 pounds, you kind of have to go above and beyond because your wind is going to go faster than Jamar Chase's. It just is. It takes a lot to get Jamar Chase or Justin Jefferson or CD Lamp for those guys to be winded in the middle of the season. For a big guy, you give me a hard series like, I'm sucking wind. I'm carrying. That guy weighs 200 pounds. I weigh 340 pounds. I'm carrying a. I'm carrying an extra human being. Makes football fun. I've seen you go over the Cowboys, Eagles, Steelers situation with Makai Lemon at the draft. My question is, why would Jerry purposely block the Steelers from taking Lemon by telling the Eagles to trade up for him instead? Wouldn't he rather him go outside the division or. I know the quote regarding Al Davis bonus. What the f are the Ravens waiting for regarding the Lamar extension? I don't think it was specifically about Makai Lemon. I think if you watch that, the clip on the ESPN documentary is they knew they could get their guy. And this is a huge part of the Draft is if you could get the same thing for a hundred dollars, why would you pay $400, right, if you knew you could get it for a hundred dollars? If I told you, hey, you like golf? I'll sell you my club right now for $1,000. I'll give you my, my, the greatest driver you're ever gonna hit for a thousand dollars. But if someone told you you can get that same driver, if you just gotta wait a couple days at this other store for half the price, you would just wait a couple days for half the price. So Jerry knows that Lawrence is going to be there when he trades back a couple picks and he can accumulate more picks because part of the draft is just taking swings and the more swings you take, the more likely you're going to hit. So I think it was less about, like, clearly they don't view Makai Lemon as Jerry Rice. You know, you're not going to lose sleep over Makai Lemon, but really you're focused on yourself. How can we add Lawrence and add AD picks and if that's the only dance partner we can get? They got two fourth round picks out of it. It was worth it to them. Now we'll see how it all plays out. Did the Cowboys even use those? Do they use them to trade? I, I'd have to go. Look. I, I don't. I, I just think that they need a lot of help and the Eagles were down to dance. I, I don't think they were cared that much about the Steelers. They use their inf. Inside information on Lemon to just acquire more picks. And I think going into the draft, I, I kind of agree with that. Now, I wouldn't trade if I was the number one overall pick and I was the Cowboys and I had Dak Prescott, let's just say last year he had broke his leg. And the Cowboys had the worst season of all time. They had the number one overall pick. It's like we got Dak coming back off the broken leg. We're not gonna draft a quarterback. We're taking bids on the quarterback, right? You would not if you like that quarterback. But you're like, we don't need them. We're going to trade this for a Hall. You wouldn't trade that inside your division. I think when it comes to the 20th pick in the draft and it could come back to Burnham, there could be a game this year where Lemon scores two touchdowns against them and the Eagles beat them 31 to 27. Scores a game winner in the corner of the end zone in Dallas. That easily could happen. I think they're hoping maybe Caleb Downs and Lawrence, you know, pick off Jalen, hurts and sack him. So I, I think it's more about that last few years. But as a former scout, can you explain why they exist? I get that sounds like a dumb question, but in your last few pods you've said over and over, we have no bleeping clue how a player will turn out in the NFL. And the owners will frequently step in and decide who to draft. Which brings me to my question. Why not just take the best player available for the position most needed on the team? Every pick I saw Brandon Bean say this the other day is he tells the scouts, you're a detective. That's 75, 80% of your job. So when you're in these meetings and in the draft room, a huge part of your job is to get to know the person. Because even if you don't draft the guy, you know, Kyle Shanahan said this the other day. He said, you know, the shitty part about the draft is you fall in love with guys, you realize you're never going to get them, or, you know, the draft doesn't break that way and you don't acquire them. Well, what if you acquire him a couple years later? The reason you evaluate every guy on the draft board is because even if you don't draft that guy well in a couple years, the Niners are a good example. They traded a third round pick for OSA Digazui from the Cowboys, who I would imagine they love coming out of the draft. The Eagles just trade for Wicks from the Packers. What are the chances they liked him coming out of the draft? I don't know, 100 freaking percent. Well, you have a lot of players that you like that go get drafted by other teams. Guess what happened to a large percentage of those guys? They become available via trade, they get cut, they become free agents. So a huge part of your job as the scout is if you're going to be playing these guys, millions of dollars, I need to know everything about them as a human being. We'll evaluate the player, we'll figure that out. And then once they get to the NFL, whether they're on our team or not, we'll figure out if they can play or not. AI can't do that. That's, that's why. And I think there are so many examples of forcing a need. We need an offensive lineman, we take an offensive lineman, but the offensive lineman wasn't good enough. Where if you just take the best player, it's it's going to be hard to screw up. You know, should the Miami Dolphins have just taken Caleb Downs or Reuben Bain like pretty risky for them to take the big offensive lineman out of Alabama. Yeah, that's the knock on the on the ramps like they thought. Big picture with the quarterback. Should they have just taken the best player? Did they kind of overthink the room on that one? Time will tell but I think a huge part of the job is to talk to people in the program because your boots on the ground guys going into the schools, the information they get is pretty invaluable. I think John Snyder and Mike McDonald are elite GM head coach combo. But your friend Haberman, his take on Seattle made me feel better. Is it realistic for the Seahawks to be a perennial super bowl contender as a team with a defensive head coach and a non elite quarterback? It's a good question. I think their coach is so good and he's proven since he was a defensive coordinator he's pretty special, right? If he was an offensive coordinator we would talk about him like McVeigh or Kyle. He's the cream of the crop. So he's elite at his job and the quarterback's pretty good. So if Sam Darnold just plays like he's been playing. I mean two years ago he threw 35 touchdowns and won 14 games. And I was thinking about this today. I wonder how much the struggles in the, in those final two games against the Lions and the Rams benefited him this year. The, the kind of the mental calluses in the confidence he had. Like I struggled. I know what it looks like we can battle through it. The one game where he threw all the picks and I think they still won or they almost won. Yeah, I think Seattle's gonna be fine. They have an elite GM and elite coach. Quarterback's pretty good. Like I, I would take that that trio. You tell me you get elite gm, an elite coach and a a solid quarterback with big time traits and he's a great guy. I would take that. Could you provide some insight on Alec Halaby and how crucially was the Eagles wondering if you could share some stories? Your interactions with them? Rap and Shefty made it seem like a big deal. I actually text them the other day it looks like the rumors that he might go into finance. He's, he went to Harvard. The guy's a genius. When I first got hired by the Eagles, his computer screen, I I, I, I can't even describe to you what it looked like because it was just stuff you see in Movies that like coders are doing. I'm like, is this guy on a different planet than me? And he was, because he's, he's brilliant, he's really, really smart, and he's, you know, he's been there. Obviously, you know, I left in 13 or 14, and I, I, I texted him, I said, there aren't many guys who could be at a place for 16, 17 years and win multiple Super Bowls in one place. I think he was on the forefront of the analytics and when I say analytics, just the models to help predict players. I, I don't know how his role expanded over the course of the last 10 years. He clearly, he was always, you know, part of, when I was there, Howie's door, the department wasn't that big. So it's like, Alec, me, couple other scouts, pro guy, you know, everyone was kind of all together with the coaches. I think their staff has gotten dramatically bigger. But when I was there, he was always with Howie, always had different models and studies. Again, the guy, I mean, I think he's made a lot of money with Philly, but if he out of Harvard, had just gone to work for Goldman Sachs or, you know, Jamie Dimon, he'd be running like a hedge fund. And he'll probably end up doing something like that or start like the next Facebook. I just remember looking at his computer thinking, what is this? Like, what is happening there? Is this what Zuckerberg and the, the two water polo twins were doing in their basement? Like, who creates these? Like the type people the government would have hired to just create programs that a tiny, tiny percentage of the most intelligent people could even come close to creating? He was just, he was very good with. There's just not many NFL, you know, the scouting community doesn't, Most people don't have Harvard backgrounds, and it's not even just went to Harvard. It was like, this guy is intellectually on a different level. And I would imagine, you know, I don't know the details of, you know, him and Howie over the last 10 years, like his specific role on a daily basis, but it was clear when he was there, like, he was, he was a pretty prominent figure. And that was a long time ago. So Howie's really good at just, I think it's because he's so entrenched, you know, he's never afraid. Like former GMs, hiring your best analytic guys, hiring some up and coming guy from the league office, they will just always hire guys who have accomplished a lot. So I'm sure maybe they knew this was coming I don't know all the details, but, Hal, be smart as wind on this. If you were an owner and ran an NFL franchise, would you rather have. Who would you rather have as your coach? GM combo? Lynch and Kyle or Howie and Sirianni? Well, the number one draft picks in this are obviously Kyle and Howie. And I was thinking about this because I saw the question earlier. You know what's funny is, like, I don't think Kyle could work with a Howie, and I don't think Howie would enjoy working with a gal. Kyle's like a way, way better Chip Kelly, but it's like, kind of his way or the highway. And Howie's greatest attribute is like, let me cook. I will give you incredible ingredients. You just basically throw the shit in the microwave, you know? And I don't think either one could work together. I don't think it would work. I think how he could figure out how to work with a guy like Kyle, I don't think Kyle could work without it, because how would be like, what? We don't need to do that in free. You know, Kyle's big thing is in free. We got to have this guy. We got to have this guy. Or in the draft, we got to have this guy. We got to have this guy. That's not how GMs think. You're always ready to pivot. The value doesn't work. And that's why I think Howie's had a lot of success with two guys that, you know. Doug's a great guy and probably pretty average coach by all accounts. Sirianni, Everyone likes him. I know whenever I'm at the combine, see, Don, like, Dom, loves him. Dom's got a pretty good judge of character. So I'm hard on Sirian. I think, as a coach. By all accounts, people really like the guy. My scouting buddies that work there love him, but I don't think he's viewed as, like, some dynamic head coach. But I think how he's actually like, you're in a great. Doug was in a great position, and now Nick's in a great position to have this guy doing that. And so I. When lynch gets crushed, it's like, guys, now. I don't know if lynch would have the capability of wheeling and dealing in the draft like Howie, but I don't think it's really allowed because Kyle's like, I want this guy now. Which. He's a good enough coach that he can overcome that. But the Eagles would never. Neither franchise would operate like the either. So if you told me the two Most important people in this, like I could replace Sirianni and I can replace Lynch. It's. I think your question boils down to would you rather have Howie Roseman or Kyle Shanahan? And I think the coach just has so much more of an impact, right? If Howie, which he has before, if you miss on some picks, there's only so much he can do in the middle of the season. He doesn't call the plays. He's not coaching them up at practice. Running these meetings, you can only cut so many guys, right? If the coach wanted a guy and you didn't, you're kind of stuck with a contract. I, I think the coach is just a more powerful tool year round in the NFL like you, you would rather have a top five coach than a top five gm. But I think like Howie and John Schneider have proven that they are so good at their job that if you do give, like look at John Schneider, he hired Mike McDonald. Mike McDonald, they won the fucking super bowl with Sam Darnold, how he won the super bowl with Nick Sirianni. So I would probably lean Kyle and I think there are similarities. Like, you know how he is, not how he's intense. You know, it's not like how he's just like feet up on his desk, like smiling all like. It's a, a lot like Kyle. Like it's an intense environment in there. I, I just think once training camp starts, I think he'd be the first to tell you a lot's out of his hands. Like the majority of his work has really happened the last couple months combine to free agency to the draft. Now they'll do cut downs, guys will get cut. You can make a trade or two in season and how he will make several. But what trade you going to make? It's not like, it's like he can't trade. Obviously AJ Brown will get traded, but in season he can't just like wait just, you know, we just need Miles Garrett, you know, that's not even possible most times. So you send up like Jalen Phillips for a third round because that's usually the best option you have. So I think the question is, would you rather have a top coach or a top gm? And if I was an owner, I think you just lean with the top coach and that might not be right. You know, maybe you should lead with the top gm because if the top GM can then just land a top coach and not even the top, you know, the number one overall coach, but if you just give him a good coach, could win every year. It's a great question.
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The volume.
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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.