← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Purdy shows up to camp, NFL rapid fire, Jay Gruden joins the pod
01:02:57
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- [00:00]
Greg Rosenthal
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- [00:33]
Daniel Jeremiah
Free Agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [00:40]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [00:43]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [00:46]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [00:55]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:04]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:36]
Daniel Jeremiah
The Volume.
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Greg Rosenthal
What is going on everybody? How are we doing? Hopefully everyone's having a great day. The NFL Draft is right around the corner, so buckle up because we've been waiting a long time. Today we're going to do we're going to have Jay Gruden, John's brother, join the show. He obviously was a coach as well, longtime head coach for Washington, offensive coordinator for the Bengals as well. With Andy Dalton, I think they had like the best offense in the league. Jay knows quarterback play. We're going to talk quarterbacks in the draft, how he approached the draft as a head coach, how he watched guys and just a bunch of different things. What he thinks about Kevin O'Connell and the decision to go with JJ McCarthy as well as I will give some thoughts to open the podcast about Purdy showing up Kittle not showing up to the off season. A guy like Devonte Adams had a comment in regards to the 49ers and their low ball offer. The Titans general manager made some comments. So did Chris Ballard, Peter Schrager hearing about some rumors. So we will dive into it all. So Jay Gruden will join the show. I'll do a little NFL rapid fire and that'll be the game plan today. And then obviously tomorrow the draft will be here and we will we'll do a podcast heading into draft night with some with some thoughts and the look ahead. But make sure you subscribe to the Pot 3 and out podcast if you listen to show on Collins feed. We also do shows that do not show up in this feed. So if you never want to miss a show you got to subscribe to the three and out feed. Make sure you do that as well. We have a YouTube channel subscribe to that as well and you'll never miss any football content as well as some go low golf content. Big win by JT that we ever put out. So make sure you do that. And before we dive into some football, you know I got to tell you about my friends, my partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast. I wish I lived in Washington because I would go to some Washington Capital hockey games. They're my squad. Got a little draftkings, little wager on them to win the Stanley cup hockey games. The playoffs look like so much fun and if you get the opportunity to go to one of these games, I would not hesitate. Obviously baseball's in full swing. You got the NBA playoffs, you got concert season which is basically here. Comedy shows. You want to do something fun, you want to go enjoy your life. Sometimes you got to get out of the house. Sometimes you got to take your your wife, your girlfriend, a close relative, maybe a mom or dad, maybe your son or daughter and just go hit the town. Whether that's a concert, whether that's a game and go enjoy yourself and do it. Because my friends that help you take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off. Your first purchase terms apply. Again create an account and redeem the code JOHN for $20 off. Download the Game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. The 49ers, they made some news today because their general manager John lynch, hall of Fame safety, spoke and he let us know that we Brock Purdy is in attendance and that's where I want to start. And these holdouts, these hold ins have become pretty consistent in the NFL. The amount of money that guys are scheduled to make, whether you're a linebacker, a wide receiver, a pass rusher, an offensive lineman, has never been more obviously these quarterbacks now, I mean a low level quarterback deal pays $100 million guaranteed. You saw Sam Darnold get 55 guaranteed based on one really good season after an awful start to his career. You've seen guys like Geno Smith get huge extension after huge extension and he was a lifetime backup relative to these guys that were scratching our head. Just like you gave two of what Jordan Love had eight good games and he got like $175 million. Tua Tonga by Loa. You saw Trevor Lawrence, we don't even know if he's a good player and he got $200 million guaranteed. There's a ton of money on the line and I totally understand that. I've always supported a player. When you're talking, you could be talking 40, 50, 60 million dollars guaranteed, let alone 100 million plus. The moment you get on the field in an OTA situation, in a training camp situation, injuries can be out of your control. Someone falling on your leg, you tripping and falling, you planning the wrong way and it can get yourself into a situation where you're injured. Listen, it's a cutthroat league. There's a reason we call it not for long. You will be thrown in the trash with a quickness and anytime you have a chance to make that much money at a young age, I totally understand and support people making business decisions because we all do it in our walk of Life. Obviously for 99.9% of us, we are not talking 100, 150, $200 million. But you got to fight for yourself and you have to be, you have to have a cold blooded cold hearted streak in any industry when it comes to money because that's the way this world operates, specifically in this country. But I also think that not everything needs to be really acrimonious and not everything needs to be some, some war. The agent and the player versus the team. Sometimes you can work together and we have seen it pretty consistent. These holdouts have turned into hold ins and Brock Purdy has had a front row seat on this. A couple years ago Nick Bosa held out and then he got a historic amount of money but it he missed all of training camp and when he got back he didn't play that well. Last year Brandon Aiyuk held in and let's face it, I don't ever remember the 49ers, of all their different administrations, ever regretting a contract so quickly. And if they could have, they gladly would have traded in this offseason. But because he's injured and makes a ton of money, no one was going to touch him. Not a soul in the league, rightfully so I wouldn't either if I was one of the other 31 teams. He's owed way too much money and way too many questions, question, question marks about the health of his leg. But it shows you how quickly the 49ers turned on him. Because let's face it, Tim Kawakami and a bunch of people that covered the 49ers have discussed this at length. They did not look favorably on how that was handled because there's a point of being professional and then there's kind of jumping that line and becoming unprofessional. And the 49ers clearly think that Brandon Iuk and his camp acted that way. And I think if you're Brock Purdy, you've kind of seen every different element of this. Nick Bosa, who is the type player that you just a blank check, he kind of gets to dictate the terms. Brandon Iuku, listen, I'm not trying to play Monday morning quarterback. I thought it was insane for them not to trade him. They're never going to have a guy where they in that offense under Kyle that's going to catch 90, 100 balls. That is not how they play. So to pay a guy a premium that's going to catch between 70 and 80 balls, I thought was kind of nuts. And they ended up doing it. And I think if you're Brock Purdy, you know, you're in a really good situation. You know, this coach and general manager love you. You know, the team really likes you. You know, I've seen this A couple years ago when the 49ers turned on Trey Lance, it wasn't just the GM and the coach doing it. The star players on the team didn't think he could play. Honestly, the basketball team in the region is going through it currently with Jonathan Kaminga. Everyone's like, steve Kerr doesn't like him. Clearly, neither do the star players because if they thought he could play, he would be on the court. And the 49ers, from the front office to the coaching staff to the players, they believe in this guy. And listen, is he going to get Trevor Lawrence $200 million? I wouldn't do that deal. I don't think the 49ers are comfortable doing that deal. But even if you get, quote unquote, a low end quarterback deal, you're talking $150 million guaranteed. And if you're Brock Purdy, you have made a lot of money off the field because you play for this brand easily, not even close. One of the top brands in the NFL to play for. And when they're good, you directly profit off it. It's not all equal. Brands discriminate in the NFL, right. There's a reason if you play quarterback for the Jags, if you play quarterback for the Houston Texans, you're not going to make as much when you play for the Green Bay packers, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Dallas Cowboys, the San Francisco 49ers, Dak Prescott, while he's made a lot of money off the on the field, he's made a ton off the field because he's played for the Dallas Cowboys. Now, in those negotiations, clearly that's never factored in. Guys like Dak give me the most money possible. And we see how that limits the team they put around them, which, listen, we can argue till we're blue in the face whether that's fair or not, but that's a reality of the business you're in. And if you're Brock Purdy, like you want to do a good deal with the 49ers, you want to get paid, but you want them to be happy with you because if they're not, they will discard you very, very quickly. We have just seen their actions this offseason. They will turn on a player really, really quickly. And I think, and I give Brock Purdy credit. Now, listen, if you told me last week, do you think Brock Purdy is not going to show up, I would have said no. I would have imagined he would have showed up. So I guess I'm not shocked that he's there. But I also think that's just smart business. You want to be in business with people where there's trust on both sides. And I think we've kind of jumped the shark over the last three or four years with some of these deals and some of these acrimonious situations. Like I appreciate some of these contracts that get done. The Eagles are great at this. They break their guys off early, everyone's happy, and there just aren't these weird situations. The Chiefs have been pretty consistent. You know, obviously Patrick Mahomes, but the way they've treated Travis Kelsey, it got a little weird with Chris Jones, and clearly they were uncomfortable with that. And the 49ers over the last couple years, some of their situations with Trent Williams, with Nick Bosa, obviously with iuk, with Debo several years ago, like it hasn't been smooth and they don't want to go through that with Purdy and Purdy doesn't want to go through that with them now. What do they ultimately meet at the the average per year is thrown out all the time. I do not care about that at all. You could tell me the average per year is $100 million. If they guaranteed him a hundred million dollars total, like that's a win. And I'm sorry, like I, I do think how much they pay this player in this situation really matters and I'm not one of those people and I've seen this thrown out that they should get rid of them, try to draft another guy. If the NFL knew that Shador Sanders was going to be as good as Brock Purdy, there is no way he would slip back past the number two overall pick like Brock Purdy has proven. You can win with them as long as your team is good. It's why I've said the pressure this offseason is not as much on Brock Purdy. He's established and shown you what he is. It's on John and Kyle because like the other quarterbacks in the nfc, Jalen hurts, Jared Goff, they really benefit from playing on a loaded roster and they're also on long term, highly paid contracts. So the 49ers have high draft picks at pick 11 and they draft high in every round. They got multiple third round picks. Like you got to crush this draft. If you were going to do what the Rams did a couple years ago and kind of retool your roster, make it cheaper and make it more long term, cost effective, you better get the draft right. And the pressure right now on the 49ers front office is enormous. But like I said, not all things are equal. And George Kittle did not show up. Don't totally blame him because of all the guys on the team last year in a devastating season, they won six games and going into the season they were the favorite to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. He was one of the few that had a fantastic season. He's 31 years old. He's going in the last year of his contract like it's time to give him an extension. And I don't blame him. Like this guy laid it on the line in a season when guys were injured, guys were disappearing and they were losing games and he was A second team all pro. And in his position, unlike wide receivers or tackles or pass rushers, he doesn't get paid a premium. But I also understand if I was him and I'm training in Nashville, like, I don't really want to come back. And until you make it lucrative enough for me to come back, like, you know what I stand for, you know what I bring to the table from a leadership on and off the field standpoint. So that that's a situation for the 49ers that I think is a pretty easy one. You've cut all this, you know, in their minds, trimming the fat of letting all these guys walk and not paying any of them. Like George Kittle is one of those guys. And I'm not always for giving guys third, third and fourth contract extensions, but the way George played last year and especially his position, like, you can give him like guaranteed 30 or $35 million and it's not very complicated to figure out. Devonte Adams had some comments that he said that his agent told him that the 49ers, who were interested in Adams this offseason wanted him at a wholesale price, not at retail prices or basically that they were willing to pay wholesale prices. They weren't cutting retail type checks. And he laughed at it like, I'm not a wholesale player. And John lynch came out today and denied it. And listen, the off season does not determine your success and failure in terms of like teams that win free agency and teams that. Mel Kuiper, who I'm pro Mel Kuiper, but part of the business is giving teams draft grades the day after Saturday happens. It's like A, C, B, F. It's like no one has any freaking clue. Not a soul out of the league or in the league. But like the 49ers, I would say for the first time in many, many years, feel like they have some negative, some a black cloud kind of around the organization in terms of positive momentum. And comments like this, like, don't necessarily make them look great. Now, John lynch denied it. He said 100%. I've never said that. He was asked if Kyle would have said that. He laughed. He said Kyle does not talk to agents. So 100% he didn't say that. There's nothing they can really do this offseason to shut everyone up. It's just going to come this fall and they're going to have to win games and they're going to have to do it with a lot of new players on the roster. And listen, it's the NFL, you get new players every single year in the roster, but they're going to have a lot of turnover and they are going to be very, very dependent on young players to have an impact immediately. And obviously they're going to have a quarterback who sometime between now and sometime in training camp is going to have a new contract and have a ton of added pressure to play at a Pro bowl level. Because it's one thing when you get to listen, I'm playing for a million dollars a year. Whatever you're getting is gravy. And that's. There's truth to that, right? But the moment I give you, you know, 150, $175 million guaranteed and the biggest contract in the history of the franchise, there is a huge amount of pressure, then that immediately amps up what was already there. And he is obviously one of the most polarizing players in the league. Kyle's one of the most polarizing coaches in the league. And I mean, when you are super bowl less and a guy like Nick Sirianni has a Super bowl like, and the Eagles seem loaded, the Lions seem loaded, you got Washington, that's an up and coming team. You got the Rams that are going to have a ton of momentum coming in. You know, in a weird way, the 49ers should get to fly under the radar, but we know that's not what's going to happen. So the 49ers are going to just continue to be, you know, I would say most people are going to pick against them. Big couple days coming up Thursday and Friday for John lynch and company, The Titans all but confirmed what we already knew. Mike Borgonzi today said that we are sticking at one and we're all on the same page, AKA we are taking Cam Ward. Listen, anytime that you go through a season with Will Levis and who I think he called a quarterback in our room, so not exactly. I don't even think there's a lock. If you told me Will Levis is traded for like a seventh round pick to another team, I'd be a little stunned. If Will Levis on the team for the Titans in 2025, my, my guess is he's somewhere else. I don't. And I do think they could probably ship him for like a future seventh. Like they basically give him away. But Cam Ward is going to get the keys to this franchise and if he is just solid, I don't know if they could be a playoff team, but they could be a much more serviceable operation that they were last year, which was basically an embarrassment. Chris Ballard had some interesting comments. I would say if I'm Anthony Richardson, I better come in with basically my hair on fire. I mean, I better be just full steam ahead off season activities, OTAs, the meetings. I mean, every time I step into that building, I better be as locked in and focused as I've ever been in my entire life. Because Chris Ballard made a comment like, his competition is Daniel Jones. And we all laugh at that. They believe in him. And Chris Ballard said, like, I believe that both quarterbacks will help us this upcoming season. Like, they don't have much belief right now in Anthony Richardson. And that's what happens when you get drafted really high and you underwhelm on and off the field. I mean, the situation with him tapping out, the way he was kind of, you know, benched, the way his teammates had to talk to him, like, they're just not that high on him. And I don't blame them. How could they be? Now do I like their contingency playing with Daniel Jones? I think it's a little insane. I think it's borderline crazy. But they did that. And listen, their head coach is not going to go down being embarrassed on offense, right? Anytime that you are an offensive quote unquote guru and your quarterback can't complete basic routes and you can't get first down because he can't hit wheel routes or basic out routes, and you think that just an inaccurate quarterback, and Ballard's been talking about this, you can't play quarterback at a high level if you are consistently inaccurate. They will look for someone else. And they've already proven this offseason that they believe that they had to bring in competition. It's an open competition. You know, Ballard, which I think makes people nervous, said like, you know me, Shane, Jim, Bob, the offensive coordinator. Jim. Jim Ursay. People like, wait, Jim Merce is involved in the quarterback decision? I think he's just kind of playing corporate manager, like, being smart. Do I think Jim Ursay is going to be the guy pulling the trigger on who's starting? I don't. I think sometimes you just like, you just have to say that out loud. But I would say that Anthony Richardson's job is very much in jeopardy. And they're already showing by their words, because we know by their actions they weren't cool with it. By their words, now they've doubled down. And their actions of bringing another guy, like, he better play well, because I think if all things are equal, they'll go with Daniel Jones. And last, but not Least Peter Schrager mentioned today on, on Espen, his, his new employer, that the Browns and the Giants are getting calls for pick two and three. And what I think is so fascinating about this draft is it's viewed as like a three player draft, really a two player draft in terms of Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter are big time prospects. Obviously Ashton Genty is viewed as one of the best players in this draft and then everything else is just a crapshoot, right? I mean every guy, once you start moving down like Will Campbell, people love the guy, but the short arms, things make people very, very uncomfortable. I think Jalen Walker of Georgia, who, if you just throw on that Texas game in the regular season, the guy looked like Lawrence Taylor meets T.J. watt meets Miles Garrett. He was an unstoppable force. He's six foot one, you know, I mean if he was six five, he'd probably be the number two overall pick. But every guy, you know, Mason Graham, he's just not that tall. Which is not the end all be all. But people do like you to look the part when I'm going to draft you three, four, five. Right. And I think this draft, I'll be stunned if there are a lot of trades for teams trading up. I don't expect that to happen because in a draft when there's a reason this is the first draft, more than likely we're going to go into Thursday night without one first round trade before the start of the draft, which is unheard of. I mean it does not happen. Typically we have like several. But in a draft that isn't viewed as good, doesn't have the quarterback star power, that's not going to take place. So I actually expect a lot of teams trying to trade back. But the problem is it takes two to tango. And if I don't love the prospects as a front office, as a gm, I'm not trading up. Why wouldn't I just wait where I am and let someone fall into my lap? So I think there's going to be a lot of teams on the horn, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday morning begging teams to come up. And I think it's going to be very, very difficult to find a trade partner. I really do. Because if you are a team at pick 10, at 15, at 20, at 25, why would you. It's one thing to move a spot or two, but to do like the 20 to 10 or 15 to 8, like that is not cheap. That that is not. You have to typically pay premiums to move up 5, 8, 10 spots in the first round, even if it's like obviously you got to pay extra usually when it's quarterbacks. But there is just a basic going rate based on the chart of moving from. And again I'm just, I'm not necessarily picking teams, I'm just using examples 14 to 6 or 20 to 11. Like there are one, there's precedent teams that have made similar trades and then there's just a chart of like this is what it costs. So like why am I going to give a second round pick, a third round pick to move up four or five spots when I can essentially get a similar group of players? All I've heard from my friends and a lot of these guys draft in the 20s so they're not as caught up and like Abdul Carter and the Travis Hunters. But they say the difference of the guy that's going to go somewhere between like 9 and 14 and the dude that's going to go 25 to 32, it's not very deep. Why? Because this is a draft. And I bet some of these GMs in their post draft press conferences, which they usually do, will say comments like this. We had seven first round guys graded, we had 10 first round grades in a good draft. Usually that number somewhere between 20 to 24. I think a couple years ago I remember John Schneider said they had like 17. But obviously if you have 17 first round grades on players and you draft 24th, there's a decent chance that all those guys are gone. Now everyone boards a little different. There's a decent chance that guy's still there. But there are going to be a lot of teams drafting in the first round. They're going to draft guys that they don't feel that comfortable based on their draft grade. Not that they don't like the player, not that they don't think the player is good. But if I'm drafting at pick 13 and I only had eight first round talents in the draft and they all went somewhere in the top 12, I then drafting a guy and paying him the 13th overall based on the wage scale. But I think I'm getting a second round player. So that's what makes drafts like this. And again, none of this determines how good these guys will be. There are going to be a ton of guys in the top 12 picks that will not get their fifth year option picked up. Just like they're going to be several guys in the 20s, the 30s, the 40s that will go on to be Pro bowl high level starters. But we don't have any of that information. So it's all based on how they were as a prospect. Right? So Cam Ward could be better than every quarterback in last year's draft. That can happen, right? But right now, if you pulled every team in the league. I saw Schefter put out something today. He said one team. And it's easy to do when you're like the Bills, but and I'm not saying they were the team that told him this, do not have a first round grade on any of the quarterbacks on any of them. And obviously that includes Cam Ward. So anytime you have these situations, there is going to be huge discrepancies team to team. That also means you are going to see players like based on the mock drafts, there are going to be some players that are going to be locks to go relatively high top 12, right? We know the top couple guys. But Will Campbell a Mason Graham, whoever. But all of a sudden, like Will Johnson, he might be there at pick 28 where before the season people thought he was like a top 10 pick. And all of a sudden it's like wait, he went, he went to the Lions, right? Or he went to the Rams. So you got to be very careful in season, in years like this with mock drafts because you get very used to certain players going at certain levels. And then the draft comes and all of a sudden the 8th pick is some guy that you haven't really heard of or consistently seen. Like you've seen him mocked in the 20s and all of a sudden he goes eight. That is going to happen. And it's simply because in a draft like this, the grades are going to be all over the freaking map when it comes to GMs, when it comes to front offices and more specifically when these coaches get involved. Because like it or not, if you're the general manager, the scouting departments, coaches, the highest paid guy in your front office slash coaching staff is the head coach there. There is not. I would say Howie is probably the only guy right now as of April 22 that makes more than his head coach. But if Sirianni gets a contract extension, he is going to be making more. Now that's not going to change the internal dynamic. But if you just go around like less need really high level GM, he doesn't make even close to what Sean McVay makes. John Lynch, a lot of success as a GM. Kyle Shanahan makes double what the guy makes. So you get these situations that if the coach really wants something and sometimes it's not just him, it's like his assistant coaches, quarterback coaches, coordinators, his D line coach. Those are his scouts, right? Those are the guy he the guys he leans on for their opinions and they have a lot of sway this time of year. So buckle up because this thing's about to get crazy. The NBA 82 game grind is done and now the real fun begins. The NBA Playoffs are here and it's time for the high stakes drama, clutch moments and jaw dropping plays. Can't wait if you're looking to make the playoffs Even more exciting, DraftKings sportsbook has you covered as an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From the play in games all the way through the finals. Now the time to back your favorite players and teams as they chase glory. All season long, DraftKings has been your go to spot for NBA player props and that doesn't stop now. Want to make your playoff experience even more intense? Try placing a bet on your favorite player's performance. Will Curry drop 30? Will LeBron drop 40 or more? It's your call. Ready to place your first bet? Download the DraftKings sportsbook app. Now lock in your bets and let's make the playoff run unforgettable. Here's something special for first timers. New DraftKings customers bet 5 to get 200 in bonus bets instantly make it a playoff run to remember with DraftKings. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use the code JOHN. That's code JOHN for new customers to get 200 bonus bets. 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- [30:23]
Daniel Jeremiah
Void.
- [30:24]
Greg Rosenthal
In Ontario, bonus bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co audio. The 40s and free agents Podcast with.
- [30:38]
Daniel Jeremiah
Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [30:43]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [30:46]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [30:49]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it off all down. Once all 257 picks have been made.
- [30:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [31:09]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [31:14]
Greg Rosenthal
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [31:17]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [31:25]
Daniel Jeremiah
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [31:28]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [31:32]
Daniel Jeremiah
Thanks for having me.
- [31:33]
Jeremy Hobson
Jeremy, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [31:35]
Daniel Jeremiah
Thanks for having me.
- [31:36]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [31:41]
Greg Rosenthal
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [31:43]
Daniel Jeremiah
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [31:44]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you always also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [31:53]
Daniel Jeremiah
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what.
- [32:00]
Greg Rosenthal
We'Re doing in this situation.
- [32:01]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [32:13]
Greg Rosenthal
Okay. We were able to get Jay Gruden before he heads out for his afternoon 18 to take a lot of money off his buddies. Jay, former head coach in the NFL and now trying to head to the senior tour. How's it going?
- [32:29]
Daniel Jeremiah
I'm not quite there. Got a long way to go to get to the senior tour, but everything else is good. And enjoying golf and been enjoying watching this group of guys in the draft. Man, it's gonna be interesting draft class, I'll tell you that. There's a lot of, a lot of guys that are, I guess, on paper, pretty good. That didn't produce a whole lot. You're hoping that, you know, things catch up to them and a lot of development need to be. Some guys have already put a lot of good stuff on tape but don't have the measurable, so to speak. So, interesting, interesting draft class.
- [32:58]
Greg Rosenthal
How'd you balance as a head coach listening to your assistant coaches and their opinions? Obviously, the front office and the scouts have a lot of opinions, but then the coaches get involved pretty heavily. Right, right post combine, right around the combine, and then really dive in over the past month. And they got, they got opinions and they obviously got friends and coaching friends. So how do you balance that this time of year?
- [33:19]
Daniel Jeremiah
You're exactly right. I welcomed all the opinions so long as I knew that they were actually watching and did their work. You know what I mean? That took a lot of. You know, I like listening to different opinions. I didn't, I never thought that my opinion was the only one that mattered. You know, I like to have people differ with me so I go back and see their point of view and then maybe change my mind sometime. Change their mind. But I think the more opinions the better. Obviously you have to come up with one. At the end of the day, everybody has to respect the final decision. Hopefully it's a team decision. They may disagree with you, which happened to me a lot. I, we took a lot of guys that I did not want, but you know, some of them turned out to be good. Some of them. I was right on, damn it. But yeah, you have to take into account everybody's opinion because you respect it and you go back and try to figure out which is best for your team.
- [34:05]
Greg Rosenthal
You know, I get asked a lot, obviously the scouting calendar, you know, your, your area scouts are watching these guys. You know, your GMs watching the top guys. Throughout the fall when you're coaching, when did you dive in? And then free agency comes obviously a month before. So you got to be on top of those guys and knowing your own guys and then doing the self cut ups and edits of your own team. When did you start watching guys and you know, of a class, let's just pick a number. 250 guys in a class. How many of those guys were you actually watching?
- [34:35]
Daniel Jeremiah
I was watching a lot more than probably any other coach. You know, right after the, right after free agency. Once we graded all the free agents, our own free agents won and then the street free agents from other teams in the NFL. How we can better our football team right away at free agency. Then I dove into the college football tape and I really like to watch the, like to kind of wait till after that. I try to watch it. I try to make tapes with the 60 guys we would interview at the combine. So I'd start with those guys first. So I'd do the 60 guys we'd interview at the combine. I'd make a tape of each one of those guys. So when I did the interview, I was prepared to see what their strengths are, what their weaknesses were so I could really get them down for 15 minutes. I would start with those guys and after that I would go dive into everybody else. Watch a Senior bowl at East West Shrine. Watch your combine. If they participate at the combine, watch Your highlight tape, watch some game film. So, yeah, it was a. It was a good process. But once you got all the information together, able to put the cutups together, and you can watch it a little bit quicker. But I tried to watch as many as I could because you figure get seven rounds worth of guys, that's, that's, that's a lot of guys, about 250, 300 guys.
- [35:40]
Greg Rosenthal
Would you have the scouting department give you kind of the layout position by position? Would you approach it by kind of rounds? What would be your plan of attack?
- [35:48]
Daniel Jeremiah
I like to have our board. You know, how we rank them. First, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh round. So I'd go, I'd have that, but I'd also do. I liked it by team, actually, because if I was watching Alabama play Georgia, I want to know all the guys on Georgia and all the guys in Alabama. So I kind of knock out eight or ten guys at once. I kind of did that. I'd also find some free agents, some street free agents that way as well. So I tried to watch as many games as I could, but that's once. Once I narrowed it down, I started watching the individual guys. I. Like I said I'd watch a couple games and I'd watch their Senior bowl, all their practices at the Senior bowl, their pro Day, and obviously they're combining. Get my evaluation.
- [36:27]
Greg Rosenthal
Well, I was going to start with some NFL questions, but we might as well just stay on this. I was watching a lot of videos that you do with kind of a Scottsdale crew with AQ and Justin Pugh, and I think Colt moved back to Texas, but, you know, he lived in AZ for a long time. Let's just start with the top guy. All signs point to it being a lock. Kind of a crazy career. I mean, when you first got into football, these guys playing in three programs, and not just for a year. I mean, the dude from Louisville had three different careers, but same with Cam Ward. Multiple years at Incarnate Word, multiple years in the PAC 12, and then obviously at Miami. I was just thinking, I just got back from the gym, took a shower. You know, historically this transfer portal wouldn't have existed. He would have been drafted last year and let's say the fourth round or whatever. Think how much money he made on two fronts, right? Going to Miami, getting paid millions, and then improving his stock. Obviously he's talented. What are your thoughts of watching him during the fall? And obviously just kind of breaking down some of his games.
- [37:29]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, I think you're right. I think a lot of these guys have so much tape now to watch Smiths, it's crazy, you know, so. But his improvement, you know, is very similar to Jaden last year where you watched him play at Arizona State for three years, then obviously LSU for two. You just see a steady rise of improvement. Cam's a little bit like that. Not to the extent of Jaden, in my opinion, but he's got the arm talent, he's got the quick whip, he's got the accuracy, he's got the anticipation, he's got the poise. Sometimes it's too much poise. He's chilling, you know, not moving a muscle, skirting out of bounds and all the cool stuff that he does. But I'm more interested in the way he handles pressure, which he does pretty well. He can escape pressure with his legs, he can avoid pressure with his slight movements in the pocket. Still, still stand tall as a passer. And he can throw at different arm angles and he's pretty damn accurate. He's got enough arm talent. So I think all science points him being the best quarterback in a draft just because of his steady, consistent production, his accuracy and his arm talent, his athleticism.
- [38:26]
Greg Rosenthal
I saw that you were, may, correct me if I'm wrong, high on Tyler Schuck, the quarterback coming out of Louisville. I don't know if you've seen the picture going viral of him going to the prom with Purdy. They were the same age. Purdy's four year starter in college and a three year starter in the NFL. This guy, what I'm talking about, three year career at Oregon, three year career Tech and then one year at Louisville. The guy's been in college, longer in doctors, but he's a guy that's a very fascinating prospect. If you and I were in a draft room, I'd say, coach, this, this guy's age. I mean, he should have a huge advantage. You know, this is some of those BYU kids that were 25 manhandling kids for years because they would go on the mission, that that would leave me a pause. I know he can spin it. I know people are high on him. But what a mental advantage he had against his competition.
- [39:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
I was 26, I played. I already played four years in the Arena Football League, for God's sake. You know, it is a huge advantage. You think about it, the maturity, you know, he had some clean bone breaks, the injury history, obviously he's a concern. I think the medical teams will have to take a look at, but obviously he's okay. And I know Jeff Braum pretty well, from University of Louisville. I talked to him a lot about him and he loves his competitiveness. He, his, obviously his arm. Talent is what it is on what you see on tape. Very strong, very accurate. He's got athleticism. So yeah, I think you say, man, for a young kid, we gotta take it. Well, he's not young. He's 26, you know. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta weigh all that in. So I don't know what to think. You know, when I first saw him play on tape at Louisville, I wasn't that impressed, you know, and I'm talking to Jeff Braum and going back to watch him again and you know, see him throw at the combine, he had some weird throws, trying to stick around and throw a sidearm and miss the guys by 20 yards here and there. But I think if you're looking for a guy in the second or third round, I think, and you might have a veteran type quarterback on your roster, maybe like the Rams or somebody like that, you get them in the building for a year, see how he does. I think it'd be worth a shot.
- [40:21]
Greg Rosenthal
Can you explain to people? Because I get asked this a lot and you've been in on these meetings for years. A guy that's had broken legs or torn ACLs or messed up shoulders, but going into the combine, they get a clean bill of health, they're healthy, but their history is long. So you're not a doctor, your GM's not a doctor, you're dependent on your trainers and doctors when they say, you know, I'm not that comfortable here and you like the player or vice versa, he's clean, but you don't. Aren't comfortable with his availability over the years. How do you balance that in these conversations leading up to the draft?
- [40:55]
Daniel Jeremiah
It's very difficult. And I have to trust the trainers and the doctors. If they flunk a guy and they say he's long term going to be an issue, we take them off the board, don't draft them. And I can remember some guys, I'm like, man, some is still playing, you know. Yeah, thanks for the tip there, doc. But that's, I mean, you have to have. Because I'm not a doctor, I have no idea. They're like, well, he's going to suffer from tendonitis, he's going to have this or this, his knee is going to continue to swell and get worse, I don't know. So I have to take it for their word and I just take him off the board. So, yeah, I think there's a Lot of issues. I think a lot of teams have different. They have the red dots for the medical, they have the black dots for the personal. They might take them guys off the board if they're a bad person. So, yeah, you have to have. You have to have some kind of standards is what I'm trying to get at. Otherwise, everybody's alive and you just pick and bear, you know, just blind picking.
- [41:46]
Greg Rosenthal
Did you have non negotiables from a. From a personal slash character standpoint?
- [41:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. Oh, yeah, we had those too. So, yeah, we, you know, that was tough. You know, it's. Some of the guys, you know, their background or history is pretty rough or their character was rough, we didn't want to take. But some guys are like, he's pretty damn good, though. I think we can work with him. We'll keep a close eye on him. And we did take some chances with some guys with some bad character backgrounds. We probably shouldn't have ended up working out, and some of them didn't work out. So. Yeah.
- [42:15]
Greg Rosenthal
Can you tell early on whether it's OTAs or training camp, like, we might have screwed this up or. Damn, we. We were probably too, too low on this guy. He's even better than we thought.
- [42:27]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, yeah, it happens a lot, you know, like, Terry McClure's a great example. Got him in a third round, for God's sakes. And he, he came in and he was so good in training camp. We didn't play him in a preseason game. I was like, hell, that we're not going to show anybody what this guy can do. I mean, his explosiveness is. Ability to learn quick and, and run every kind of route and snatch the ball. I mean, yeah, so there's, there's been pleasant surprises like that. Not all of them are like that. We've had other ones on the flip end. Guys come in, we dropped in the first round that come in hurt. I got bad feet, I got bad heels. I can't practice. I can't do this, you know, and. Yeah, so it's tough. It's a tough process, man, but it's fun. It's. It's my favorite part of coaching, really, was the develop. The, the chance to take a look at all these guys in college and watch their college. I learned a lot of football watching college tape and obviously the evaluation process of college kids and NFL guys in free agency I think is the most important, important part of being a head coach. And then you got to develop players and obviously coach them on game day, but you got to get the right players in your building, and if you don't, you have no chance. And unfortunately, we had some good players. We sat a lot of injuries.
- [43:26]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I remember Chris Thompson, a little running back. That guy was sweet. Yeah.
- [43:31]
Daniel Jeremiah
I just went to his wedding the other day. Man, he's. He's awesome. Yeah.
- [43:34]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah. A guy when he was healthy, he was a. He was a badass. Okay, Shador Sanders, obviously probably the most polarizing guy in this draft. What are your thoughts on him as a player?
- [43:44]
Daniel Jeremiah
You know, I think that he's handled the pressure extremely well being Deion Sanders son, being at Jackson State with all the eyeballs on him and going to Colorado and expectations of what he's supposed to do, I think he performed at a pretty high level. He's accurate, he's got a good arm. He's anticipates things very well. I think at times he takes way too many sacks, holds the ball too long. I just feel like deep down, you know, I feel like he's worried about his completion percentage more so than doing the right thing for the team and throwing the damn ball away. It drives me crazy. He's had many of opportunities to throw some of these balls. It takes 64 sacks or whatever it is. That's too many for a guy athletic like that. Now, you know, his offensive line wasn't great, but they weren't that bad. That's the only issue I have with him. But he's. He's obviously a good player. Good football makeup, obviously good Genesis. And he has the arm talent to be pretty successful. Not overly whelming, not overwhelming. Arm talent that can really drive it in there. You know, you worry about it playing a windy stadium or what have you, but I think with the short intermediate passes, which most teams are running now anyways, he can throw it on, you know, throw it on the money and anticipate it. Give guys opportunity to run and run with the ball after they catch it. So, yeah, I think he's going to be a good prospect.
- [44:58]
Greg Rosenthal
You know, I have some friends that have, like, high school kids that play basketball now, and they say you go to some of these games, these kids shooting threes, like they think they're Steph Curry. It's like, what are you doing? It does feel like the Patrick Mahomes generation of. You saw last year with Caleb. Obviously, Cam Ward plays a little bit like that. Shador, you know, when you got into football, it was get rid of the ball, be accurate. Most guys couldn't move, so they didn't have a choice, right? In the 90s and the 2000s those guys don't really exist. I mean, I mean is there a Kirk Cousins level athlete in this draft class and really the last couple years all these guys, you know, Deion Sanders son is viewed as not a great athlete relative to his dad, but relative to like Carson Palmer or something, he moves a lot better. So it's like I, I do wonder one, is that player dead, the guy that just can't move and just a pocket quarterback that it doesn't feel like they exist anymore in college football and two, is that just always going to be a problem with most of these athletic guys of just especially in college and something can you coach it out of them? And is it, is it a death knell? Like is Caleb, like is that a coachable attribute because he battled that last year.
- [46:02]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, he did battle that last year and it is a problem. You know, some of the more, some of the most athletic quarterbacks take the most sacks. You're like what the hell man. You know. However, athleticism at that quarterback position gives you a lot more options of the play caller and you know, with his own reads and the RPOs and some of the bootlegs and the quarterback design runs, it makes it a lot easier as a play caller and it makes harder on defensive coordinators quite frankly. So you want to put that type of quarterback in less positions to get sacked. Obviously if, if you're behind two touchdowns or it's third and eight all day, you're gonna have major issues but you can control it based on your play calling first and second down. So. But yeah, you're right, some of these athletic quarterbacks do take more sacks for whatever reason. There's something you got to continue to coach them out of and make sure they get rid of the ball. And understand the second and 10 and third and 10 is a hell of a lot better than third and 18 and second and 18. So negative plays are what will kill you as a play caller and as a team on offense and you just got to coach it out of them.
- [46:57]
Greg Rosenthal
Would you feel comfortable taking Shador in the first round?
- [47:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
I would, yeah. If I really needed a quarterback. Yeah. I mean some of these teams don't have one. You know, you're looking at Cleveland are gonna go with Flacco, I guess and the Giants are gonna go 39 year old Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston and some of these other teams, you know, seems crazy. It's crazy. You know, my last year at Jacksonville's offense corner we Had Gardner Minshew was hurting and, you know, we're going Jake Luton and Mike Lennon. I'm looking across the field, I see Matthew Stafford warming up. I mean, this is he even fair, man. I mean, come on, you got to hit the trigger, man. I mean, it's like doing layup drill. You're looking across at Michael Jordan and you got some little small 5 foot 9 guys going to guard him. You're like, oh, we might as well. What are we even playing the game for? So, yeah, you got to find a trigger man. I think there's a lot to like about these guys. You just got to. You got to make sure they have the right personality fit for your staff and they have a skill that you can develop as a coach. And, and these guys, you know, I've never met with any of them before. These guys want to get better. The issue is these guys already got millions of dollars in their pocket when they come to your building. So that's. But, but the important thing for these guys to understand, they got to get to their second contract to get there. They got to perform high at a pretty early level, ideally for a guy like Shador, is he would play maybe for a year behind Russell Wilson, learn from a veteran quarterback like. Like that are a year behind a Joe Flacco, so he can learn how these guys prepare, just get his feet wet, understand systems audibles at the line of scrimmage, what coaches are looking for, how to prepare each week, how. Each week is a different game plan. People are rushing these guys into duty, and there's not many C.J. strouds or Jaden Daniels, they can have that type of success as a rookie, you know, so.
- [48:40]
Greg Rosenthal
And you coached Alex, who I think is a good example of someone that overcame dysfunction and craziness. But he's, I mean, from a mental toughness standpoint, obviously the story about, you know, the leg situation is well documented. It's, you know, he's got pretty elite mental toughness. And I think you see guy now like Baker Mayfield clearly right up there as well. Most guys, that tsunami and negativity and failure, it just because you're going typically when you're drafted higher to shittier teams and it can ruin your career.
- [49:09]
Daniel Jeremiah
Look at Sam Darnolds and I, I wouldn't be surprised if some other guys come out of this whirlwind of hate and do pretty good. You never know about Will Levitz. I mean, he's going to get benched for a rookie quarterback and maybe he'll get better in two or three years and learn how to calm down and play with a little bit more poise and play within himself. And there's a lot of guys out there. Kenny Pickett, I mean maybe he'll get Daniel Jones, maybe he'll get another opportunity to succeed. Some of these guys have been through the ringer and had a lot of negativity thrown their way. And that's why the most important thing about being quarterback other than talent is your mental toughness. You got to be able to handle adversity. And a lot of these guys haven't had to handle adversity. And when it gets thrown their way, some of them can't handle it, quite frankly. And they, and they go in a tank and they never. And they point the finger, they blame everybody else but themselves and they don't come out of it. But some of them that can handle it, they come out of it fine and, and still perform at a high level at some point in their career.
- [50:02]
Greg Rosenthal
Do you think later round or undrafted free agents as their career goes, even when they prove they're decent, get discriminated against. Where a guy drafted high like a Daniel Jones? Because I got asked the other day like Tyson Badgett, remember that story last year that came out dudes on the Bears wanted him to play when Caleb was really struggling. And I don't know if you saw the hard knocks clip of Matt Ryan was at practice was like, God, this guy looks fantastic. Now Shepherd College, I couldn't even point that thing out on a map, you know, undrafted free agent, it's going to be difficult for him ever to get an opportunity. But you see some of these guys, Daniel Jones, you got Chris Ballard's like, yeah, he might end up being our starter. It's like, I don't know. I mean it's just. It does feel when you are drafted high at any position, but specifically quarterback, that even when you struggle you do get more shots. Now Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, sometimes it works out. So it's like I totally understand why, but it is difficult to overcome. Is it fair to say when you are a much later round pick and you don't really get to play that much even though you actually might be pretty good if you're ever given the opportunity?
- [51:03]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, I think most guys that get drafted high, they get drafted high for a reason because of their success in college or height, weight, their speed, the skill set that they have. These guys that are drafted in the later rounds, you know, they might have some kind of attribute that might be interesting that you Think you can develop, but there are no more sight unseen like a small college, like Shepherd College, you know, these guys, hell, a lot of some guys didn't even scout Shepherd College. They don't know a lot about them, right. So if they don't have anything on tape other than the games that he played, which he played pretty damn good when he did play for the Bears, you know, that's all you have to show other teams. So that's why it's probably less likely for them to get multiple opportunities. It is for a guy that's been drafted in the top three rounds because they played at Oklahoma or Kansas State or, you know, a big school and got a lot of tape on them.
- [51:44]
Greg Rosenthal
You know, when you became an offensive coordinator for Cincinnati and then obviously head coach, transferring sometimes, at least in my opinion, was viewed as kind of a negative. Like, oh, you couldn't win the job so you had to leave. Now it's the complete opposite. I mean, all these guys the last couple years drafted 1 through 12 are transfer portal quarterbacks. So Jackson, Dart, Riley Leonard, Will Howard, Kyle McCord, kind of that second tier group. I'm sure you've watched them all. Let's start with Dart, who I know I saw some comments you made with Colt. I don't know if you're the biggest fan. For me, it's hard to get the Florida game. I was just watching live.
- [52:21]
Daniel Jeremiah
Oh my gosh.
- [52:22]
Greg Rosenthal
You gotta be careful. It's hard to ever forget that moment.
- [52:27]
Daniel Jeremiah
I can't, you know, that's my problem as an evaluator. Sometimes if I see something early and some guys film evaluation process, it sticks on my head and I can't get it out, you know. And that's the same thing with Jackson. Those couple throws against Florida late in the game when they had to win to, you know, get to the playoff. It, it bothered me. And same thing with Shadour's performance against byu. It bothered me a lot. You know what I mean? Obviously you go through all the tape and their whole career and watch him throw and watch his athleticism. What he's done with Lane Kiffin and that offense at Ole Miss, it's been impressive. He's got athletic ability to extend plays. I just don't know if his arm strength is consistently good enough to be, you know, a solid starting quarterback. National Football League early. You know, he's got enough arm strength, but balls float on him quite a bit. He doesn't look like he reads coverages right at times. They run similar concepts very, very often. He does those pretty good, but things get a little out of whack for me. Struggles, but you know, if I put on a highlight tape where I'm going to show the positives, he looks pretty damn good. Athleticism, accuracy, ball placement, everything's pretty good for him. But you know, I think there's just, I think you just need some time to develop somewhere. And I'm not too sure his arm strength is ever going to be quite elite enough to be a solid top tier, top 10 quarterback in the National Football League. I think he's always going to be a player, you know, a backup, a solid, maybe a starter, maybe a top 20 type guy, maybe a, you know, a backup quarterback for a long time. But I just don't think he's going to crack in and be one of the top quarterbacks.
- [54:00]
Greg Rosenthal
Foreign Free Agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah.
- [54:06]
Daniel Jeremiah
And Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [54:10]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [54:13]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [54:16]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [54:25]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [54:36]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [54:42]
Greg Rosenthal
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [54:44]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [54:53]
Daniel Jeremiah
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [54:55]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [55:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [55:01]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [55:03]
Daniel Jeremiah
Thanks for having me.
- [55:03]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [55:08]
Greg Rosenthal
Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [55:12]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [55:20]
Daniel Jeremiah
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what.
- [55:27]
Greg Rosenthal
We'Re doing in this situation.
- [55:28]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [55:41]
Greg Rosenthal
How would you factor in Watching a guy like Will Howard, where you go, well, he's a transfer guy so he's new to this offense. Early on it felt like it was a little hit or miss, but by end of the season I mean he's throwing beautiful go routes and he looked awesome because I would say halfway through the season like this guy, most overrated quarterback in the country. By the end of the season it's like he was looking like Peyton Manning in some of those playoff games.
- [56:00]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, put them on early the season and put the combine on, you'll never even want to draft them, right? Yeah, but you put the games on that really mattered where they had to win. Other than Michigan, he was pretty damn good and very accurate, very poised, had a good handle of the offense and you know, I saw him on my brother's quarterback show the QB camp thing. Very smart, I mean very competitive type of guy you want in your building, you know what I mean? A winner. And those intangibles have to mean something to an organization. I mean this guy won a national championship, he's competitive, he's smart as hell, he wants to be great. So you know, maybe not a first round or maybe not a second rounder, but if we get this guy early in the third to take a chance with him, hell yeah, let's get him in our building and see what he can do.
- [56:41]
Greg Rosenthal
And when you draft a guy in the third or fourth round, there's way less pressure on him to be the eventual starter. If you get, you know, a 10 year backup, that's a home run pick, right?
- [56:51]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, for sure. And there's been, I mean Russell Wilson was third round, Kirk Cousins fourth round, there's been plenty of third rounders which turned out to be pretty damn good. So I think you're right. There's less pressure on a perform right away, you know, not, not that you don't think he's going to perform, just be a solid backup for the rest of his career. I mean anytime you draft a guy to third round, whatever position it is, that's a chance for them to, you know, maybe the first year learn and be a backup, special teams or whatever other positions and then eventual starter. That's what it's all about. Quarterbacks are no different.
- [57:20]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah. Is there a quarterback in this class? Maybe we already touched on him that you like the most. Maybe not going high, but just a guy that you, you know, if you were in a building you'd be like, I, I want to draft this guy sometime.
- [57:32]
Daniel Jeremiah
You know, I crazy. I'd take him in a sixth or seventh round. A quarterback from Indiana. Rourke.
- [57:38]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah.
- [57:39]
Daniel Jeremiah
He's coming off an injury. I know it. I just. I got to meet this guy because anybody who could take the University of Indiana to the playoff, college playoff, I gotta meet him, right? He's pretty active. He played well at Ohio. He had some good games in Indiana. Interesting guy. I don't know what his injury is. I think as a knee. I think he played the whole year with an ACL injury. He's a guy that, if I had a Matthew Stafford or, you know, veteran quarterback on my team, I'd get him in here as a third quarterback or fourth quarterback, registered him for a year, get him in the building. But when yours is interesting to me is accurate, obviously his career at Texas has been well documented. I just don't know about his arm talent either. Will Howard, we mentioned already Jalen Milroe. I'd got to get this guy. I got to get. I get him. Get him a job. I mean, I've never seen a guy run like this. He's. He's faster than Lamar. It looks like he's elusive. His arm. I think he's a lot more accurate than people give him credit for. He had some tough games and Alabama had some tough games with him scoring points against Oklahoma and some other games. But he's got an elite talent. I mean, elite escapability talent and running talent. And to get him into building as your third quarterback or second quarterback on game day and have a package of plays for him could be pretty dangerous. So I think there's a skill set that you feel like you can really develop. Like, Jalen has that athleticism and speed. Let's get him into building. Let's try to develop his footwork in his passing attack. Let's get, you know, some of these other guys that are very competitive, very smart, love the game and get them in the building, see how they go. Some guys will perform well, some won't. But those are just a few guys that I kind of like.
- [59:08]
Greg Rosenthal
If the only tape Jalen Milroe had was that first half against Georgia, he'd be the number one overall pick.
- [59:12]
Daniel Jeremiah
Right.
- [59:13]
Greg Rosenthal
He looked. I mean, he looked better than Caleb Williams. I mean, that half, that's as good as it gets. And then you'd watch that bowl game. I remember watching, it's Michigan. It was like, geez, what's going on here? But you're right, it was weird season. His highs are pretty high.
- [59:26]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're going to take a chance on a Guy, let's take a chance as a guy. This runs a 42940. Let's get him in our building. As opposed to, you know, an average arm strength guy. That's a tough guy. You know, it's just whatever you guys want to do as a staff and if you can put together a package of plays and really make Jalen Milroe the type of guy that can really help your team in a certain situations or whatever, then you got to take a chance.
- [59:51]
Greg Rosenthal
I mean, that touchdown pass also they threw last year in the Iron bowl to keep the season alive was rolling to his left cross body. It was incredible.
- [59:58]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, he's sick. Yeah. So he does things like that well, you know, he's got it in him, you know. So, you know, I think coming out, people like to compare him to Lamar with his athleticism. Lamar is a much better passer coming out. But you never know. Give this guy a couple years in the system and work with a quarterback coach and I don't know if he'll never be an elite passer, that's for sure. But he might be effective enough to. That really put a lot of pressure on defenses with his athleticism because this guy is elite when he has a ball in his hands now, I mean maybe he's a damn slot receiver or third down back or something like that, you know, just to get the ball in his hands and he's electrifying.
- [60:32]
Greg Rosenthal
Okay, a couple quick NFL quarterback questions for you. Today was reported, which I think was the right move by Brock showed up obviously the, the contract issue. He's a polarizing player. I feel like when I close my eyes and think the Gruden's. I feel like you guys would like Brock Purdy. He's your type guy from an intangible standpoint and from a playing standpoint. Plus it feels like everyone just naturally talks shit about him and the natural reaction from you guys would be to push back. What are your thoughts on just obviously the contract which how much these quarterbacks are getting paid is fit with Kyle and just ultimately what you would do if you were in the 49er shoes when it came to Brock Purdy and your future at quarterback?
- [61:14]
Daniel Jeremiah
Brock's interesting, man. I'm telling you what Brock Purdy gives guys like Kyle McCord and Quinn Ewers and, and all these guys. I mean these guys like Brock Purdy can do it. I can do it. My career is just as good as Brock at Iowa State. Right. But he's gone out and done it at a very high Level. He's been in situations that have been pressure packed and performed pretty well. Obviously when guys got hurt around him last year, their team didn't play quite as well. He needs good players around him like all quarterbacks do. I, I think that I'd be a little reluctant to say, okay, I don't know if I want to pay him that much money because then you're going to lose guys like Debo Sam, you're going to lose, you know, Greenlaw, you're going to lose Funga, you're going to lose Ward at corner. I don't know if your team is good enough not to have those guys for him to be successful or not. But I love what he's done. I love his accuracy. He's got a great feel for the game. Understands Kyle's offense very very well. Some people say it's because of cows offense. Why Brock Puri is good. Maybe it's because the players around him. That's why Brock Puri is very good. Maybe Brock Purdy is just pretty damn good. Give him some credit. So I think there's a fine line between how you have to evaluate Brock Purdy. But If I'm the 49ers and John Lynch, I got to pay him because if I don't pay him then what am I going to go out and trade for Kirk Cousins which I could see happening because I know Kyle loves Kirk or go in the draft bear ass naked try to find another one as good as Brock has performed? I think they got to pay Brock.
- [62:42]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah, let's, let's end on One of your former assistant coaches has a pretty difficult situation going on. Just because he drafted a quarterback high last year he had the Sam Darnold explosion. Sam's now in Seattle. The visual of JJ in the, I think it was the Lions game, he looked like he weighed 100. I died for that weight. He's like 170 pounds. He's skinny, you know. Now it's like their roster on paper I think most people would agree top 3, 4 or 5 roster in the NFL. But the quarterback situation, they, they thought about Aaron Rodgers. As of right now he's. They haven't signed them. Can you bank? I mean they're coming off what a 14, 15 win season. People are going to be picking them to compete right there with the Eagles if they get good quarterback play. A guy that's not only never played an NFL regular season game. Really when you look at how he played in college, they didn't ask. He played a little Jimmy Garoppolo, Kyle Shanahan style, right? We're going to run the ball, we're going to play defense, and Kevin likes to pass the ball, from what I see, you know, watching his teams play, and obviously they're, they're equipped to do that. Seems a little risky, you know, and I'm pro JJ McCarthy, but given the expectation, it's much easier as a rookie quarterback when the expectations are high, or, excuse me, low, than to take over a team like the Vikings, where if you win anything less than like 11, 12 games, they're going to be all over your ass. So good luck to your guy because this is, this is a difficult spot.
- [64:08]
Daniel Jeremiah
They're very good. You know, I was looking at their team for draft needs. I'm like, well, they don't need a safety, only really corner. They don't need any defensive line, they don't need offensive line, they don't need any running backs, they don't need receivers, they don't need stacked. They're pretty damn good, you're right. And this is a risk. I mean, this is Kevin O'Connell rolling the dice, man, with everything on the line with J.J. mcCarthy. And I thought they might sign Aaron Rodgers for a year and, you know, and if JJ proves to be 100%, which I'm sure he is right now, and Aaron has to sit on the bench, that's fine. Otherwise he can learn a year, get another red shirt year for him and let Aaron Rodgers play. But obviously they feel very strongly about him. You know, I'm with you. As far as the Michigan tape is concerned, he didn't do a whole lot. You know, there's play action, flat routes, little high cross, every now and then, quick out, you know, so it wasn't. He wasn't asked to do a whole lot, and he's going to be asked to do a lot more. And I know he had a good preseason game. He had some good throws in his preseason game that he played before he got hurt, but I don't know what to make of it, man. This is a. You know, Kevin knows these guys. He's got a good pulse of what this guy can do. His competitive spirit, how he handles the offense, his understanding of the game. So he feels very confident. This is a bold, bold move by Kevin and hopefully it works out. But I'm sure eventually they'll get some kind of backup quarterback with some experience, somebody like Andy Dalton type guy for Bryce Young, you know what I mean? I think they'll be looking for that.
- [65:28]
Greg Rosenthal
Assuming the money's Right. Would you feel comfortable with just the way the Aaron Rodgers situation with the jets and the personality and you know, the interviews with Pat, he becomes a story in itself. Bringing him into a situation where you have this young quarterback. Not that Aaron wouldn't get along with them, but it's just, it's a lot going on, which it does feel like why they were just a little hesitant just with the kind of the show that comes along with Aaron.
- [65:54]
Daniel Jeremiah
I think the other issue is he tapped to actually learn a new offense. You know, they brought over Nathaniel Hackett with them to the jets to keep the offense the same form. So he's never had to really learn new terminology. Not that he couldn't learn it, but it is different. And to be a 40 year old quarterback, you kind of want to have things your way as a play calling plays in the huddle and that Kevin would not change what he's been doing because he's been pretty successful as well. So that's the other issue. And I'm not saying Aaron Rodgers the right guy might be another veteran type guy that'll come free eventually, maybe Jameis Winston if they draft a quarterback, somebody like that. But I don't know. Yeah, I think, you know, all eyes will be on JJ and I think JJ's ready for the, for the opportunity. But how he performs, we'll see. He's got a good offensive line, a good back and hell of a receiving core.
- [66:38]
Greg Rosenthal
What's your, what's your go to game at the club? You guys go a little Nassau, you guys go banker, you guys go dots. I mean, what's, you know, I have.
- [66:45]
Daniel Jeremiah
Lots of, lots of different groups that I play with. Sometimes we just play stable for teams. Sometimes we play Nassau, two down autos and double the back, you know, things like that. Sometimes we play the dots for you, the trash, all that crap, you know. Yeah, greenies, Sandies, all that stuff. It's. I'm not a big fan. I like straight up. I like mass all the best. It's just, you know, you get down, you get pressed. That's. I'm a presser. I love the P word.
- [67:08]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah. You, you like when you're back skin. So I like your brother's mindset of, you know, 90s par. So if you shoot 85, you had a hell of a day out there on the golf course.
- [67:17]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, that's. I used to keep score by fives. If I was one under fives, that means I shot a 89, right?
- [67:23]
Greg Rosenthal
Yeah.
- [67:24]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah.
- [67:26]
Greg Rosenthal
Well, J. I appreciate it. Have a good day. On the golf course and let's enjoy the draft.
- [67:30]
Daniel Jeremiah
Yeah, thanks for having me on. Anytime. The volume the 40s and free agents podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [67:49]
Greg Rosenthal
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [67:53]
Daniel Jeremiah
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [67:55]
Greg Rosenthal
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [68:04]
Daniel Jeremiah
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [68:14]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.