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- [00:00]
Jemele Hill
This is an I Heart podcast.
- [00:05]
John Middlekauff
You know, we love talking stats here on the Odd couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. Here's one that's super simple to remember. Discover automatically doubles the cash back you've earned on your credit card at the end of your first year. With Cash Back Match. That means with Discover, you could turn $150 cash back to $300. That's right. You could put it towards some memorabilia you've had your eye on. Or treat yourself to a premium sports network you earn and Discover doubles. See terms@discover.com credit card picture this. You're halfway through a DIY car fix, tools scattered everywhere, and boom. You realize you're missing a part. It's okay because, you know, whatever it is, it's on ebay. They've got everything. Brakes, headlights, cold air intakes, whatever you need. And it's guaranteed to fit. Which means no more crossing your fingers and hoping you ordered the right thing. All the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. Ebay. Things people love. There are moments in life when you get to make a real difference, and this is one of them I want to tell you about Folds of Honor. They provide educational scholarships to spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. Since 2007, they've awarded nearly 62,000 scholarships. If you've been looking to give back to do something meaningful, this is it. Go to foldsofhonor.org, give what you can. Together we can honor, educate, unite.
- [01:44]
Jemele Hill
I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics.
- [01:48]
John Middlekauff
On this week's episode, I'm joined by.
- [01:50]
Jemele Hill
All time great Hooper and basketball analyst.
- [01:53]
John Middlekauff
Candace Parker, who gives insight into her candid new book, including why she waited.
- [01:57]
Jemele Hill
Two years into marriage to come out. I never envisioned being with a woman. I'll just be honest. Like when I close my eyes at night, every night, I was like, I need to find my prince charming. Like it was never a princess. Make sure you listen to this episode of Spolitics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.
- [02:13]
John Middlekauff
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [02:17]
Jemele Hill
The volume.
- [02:30]
John Middlekauff
What is going on? Everybody very, very fired up for today. I'm John three and out podcast. Hopefully you guys are doing well out there and do better after you listen to this podcast because we're throwing a little bit of a curveball today. Just, just an interview. And that talk is going to be with Raiders GM John Spitek, who, you know, I've known of him for a long Long time. I think I've met him a couple times over the years, but I think when he got the Raider job, I'd reached out and just said congratulations. And the guy that hired me with the Eagles a long time ago from Fresno State is very, very close with Spytech and he actually just left the Eagles to go work for John with the Raiders. So I'm fired up. Spy Tech, a lot of mutual friends. I've never heard a bad word about the guy and obviously he's had a lot of success. You know, there are not many people that have, you know, work with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. So we're going to talk to Spy Tech about everything from being a GM to obviously draft an Ashton Genty, Pete Carroll to Max Crosby to working with Tom Brady where he worked very, very closely. Like he went over the game plan with Tom on a weekly basis when he was in Tampa's as basically the number two to Jason Light. So a lot of football talk here. Pretty fired up for this one and hopefully you guys enjoy it. Share with your friends. You guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure to subscribe to three and out. You never know when we're gonna have content that doesn't show up there. So we got you covered. Also YouTube page, all of our content, including this video, is up there as well, so make sure you check that out. But before we dive into spy tech, you know I got to tell you about my friends, my partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast, Game Time. Ironically, I've been hyping up the Sphere. I want to go see Kenny Chesney at the Sphere, talk to a guy from Las Vegas. So it's actually I've been to a couple concerts in Vegas. Never at the Sphere, but pretty awesome place to see a show if you're ever there. Obviously Vegas is known for gambling, but there is a lot of stuff to do there, specifically music. And now with the residencies, I was scrolling around. Anytime you want to get tickets. If you're headed to Sin City, Game Time, they have you covered. Obviously. Games, you name it. Baseball this summer, football this fall, concerts, comedy shows. Doesn't get any better. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets. Download the Game Time app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off. Your first purchase terms apply again, create an account, redeem the code johan for $20 off. Download the game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. Dive into the interview. Okay. Very excited to have a man who's lived A pretty crazy football life so far. The he was named in late January the general manager of Dorada's John Spy Tech. How you doing, man?
- [05:25]
Jemele Hill
I'm doing great, John. Thanks for having me on the pod today.
- [05:28]
John Middlekauff
You know what's crazy? I was, I was looking. I mean I knew your bio. I guess sometimes I forget that you were Denver with Elway and Manning, but we could have a pretty crazy. I mean you're not very old, so you still got a lot of football left, but your football life. You get hired by Andy Reid as the Eagles were just humming in the mid 2000s. Then you work for John Elway and Peyton Manning's the quarterback. Then you're part of the crew that lands Tom Brady and then you work hand in hand with game planning with them. And now you work with Pete Carroll. I mean we could do an NFL Films football life on you.
- [06:00]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, you could pinch me a little bit with that stuff. I actually hadn't even in my head, I hadn't even added Pete Carroll to that docket yet since we're getting started here. But I, you know, I'm just so fortunate to have been around the people that I've been around and to get my, to get my NFL start with, with Andy Reid and, and when the Eagles were really humming back then. See really what a successful organization looks like and how it's run day to day and Andy's consistency and you know, how stoic he was on a day to day basis. And then I think about that staff that I was with there too with Howie Roseman and Tom Heckert and Jason Light and Ryan Grigson and Matt Russell and you know, Anthony Patch who's, who's in, in Vegas with us now. I mean we had a hitters club back then in Philly kind of everywhere you looked and so just super grateful for the people that I've been around. I feel beyond fortunate.
- [06:45]
John Middlekauff
Same thing with the coaching staff, right? Wasn't John Harbaugh there? Sean McDermott? I mean the coaching. Jim Johnson.
- [06:51]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, Jim Johnson's spags, David Cully, Doug Peterson. I think there's like seven, seven guys that were on the Pat Shermer. Seven guys in that staff that went on to become NFL head coaches and I think four or five GMs from that staff.
- [07:05]
John Middlekauff
You know, you played at Michigan, so it's not like you weren't used to big time football. But when you get hired as the lowest guy in the totem pole with the Eagles, I mean, I've been there. Was it. I was pretty Intimidated. Like, it was pretty overwhelming at first. I mean, the pace in which everything went. You just didn't want to, like, get fired on a daily basis. What. Do you remember that experience when you get the job? Obviously there's not much money coming along with it. Not that you even care when you're young, but, you know, that experience, long time ago now, but obviously kind of builds the foundation of where you're at.
- [07:39]
Jemele Hill
It was actually a pay increase for me when I took that job, making $17,000 a year in Philadelphia because I had just come from the Lions, where I made $250 a week in the 2004 season. But, yeah, I mean, I, You. I mean, I was a small town Wisconsin kid. I went to Michigan, you know, I went to the Lions for the year. And next thing you know, I can remember John, thinking back to, like, they, they offered me the job. We need to be here in two days and I got to pack up a U Haul trailer. I got to find an apartment. And I mean, you know, it's. It's hard to find an apartment. Like in 2005, I was on Craigslist trying to sort it all out, move to Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love, and trying to sort that out in my head. And at a time when the Internet wasn't really as helpful as it is now. But to your point, I didn't care. I didn't care what the money was. I didn't care how I was going to get there. I was just going to get there. I mean, they were coming off of. Have just having just gone to that Super Bowl. I mean, what an opportunity. And, you know, I just showed up with a positive mindset, you know, give me every job like you can possibly think of, because that's what my job was in Detroit. And now it was just more specific to the scouting department. And away we went. And I, I just, I mean, I was like a pinch yourself moment. Stand there next to Andy Reid and Don McNabb and Tara loans.
- [08:48]
John Middlekauff
And was there a time, I mean, I'm sure you talk about this a lot with players, like the power of confidence and knowing you belong, you know, coming even if you played in the SEC or the Big Ten to go to the NFL, it's a big jump, you know, as a young scout, was there a time when you're like, maybe not I'm going to be a GM one day, but I'm pretty good at this. Like, I'm going to make a career, because at first you're just kind of swimming, keeping Your head above water, and then once you kind of get your feet wet, you start doing the job. Do you remember a moment, maybe a draft room, maybe a situation going into a school where you're like, okay, I think I can handle this.
- [09:25]
Jemele Hill
I do. It's. It's a little more unique than maybe a certain player, But I don't know how well you knew Tom Hackert when he was with us, but Tom was. Tom was. You know, he was a man. He was not the most social person I ever met in the world. He was an awesome person. I mean, I owe so much to him, but he. He didn't really ever talk to me. And my office was kind of like, my desk was kind of right outside his office, and he would walk by and go, hey. And then just keep going. And I'd. I'd go home every night. My. My then girlfriend, now wife, Kristen, was. Was with me, and she, you know, every week. How'd it go? Is Tom talk to you? I'm like, no, he hadn't said anything to me yet. And other than hello. And about. I don't know, I'd be like, seven or eight months into the job, he kind of walked by, and I was watching somebody and said, who? Who you watching? And, you know, I kind of told him, and he goes, what do you think? And I told him. And I went home that night and I told my wife, like, the GM just asked me what I thought about a player. I can't remember who the player was. Doesn't matter. And that was probably the first time where I thought, like, he cares now what I think about a player. He's interested enough to stop if as busy as he is and ask what I think. And then, you know, Jason Light was there at the same time, too. And about the same time, I started going in his office and peppering him with questions and, you know, asking him, what do you look for in safeties and receivers and tight ends and, you know, what are the most important traits? And about the same time, he started to kind of volley back to me, like, what are you looking for? Who do you like? And what are the traits you think are matter? And to me, like, that's where I kind of felt like about six, seven months into the job with the Eagles, I was maybe kind of taken off.
- [10:52]
John Middlekauff
You know, I've heard Sean McVeigh talk about this. I think I saw Mike McDaniel talk about this too. Like, when they first became a head coach, they weren't always cognizant about how the way they carried themselves or like, their body language, like, affected everyone else. Because when you're an assistant coach, you're just kind of head down, worried about yourself. And I think it's probably fair to say, you know, you're a director of personnel or college scouting director. You're just so focused on the board or the free agency board. But when you're the gm, like you just said, everyone's thinking like, oh, the GM didn't talk to me. Oh, he looked at me weird. Oh, he's really pissed off. I know you haven't been in the seat for that long, but, you know, you're pretty. You've been around the block a few times, around a lot of people. Is that something you think about? Like when you walk in the building that everyone now is kind of looking at you and Pete, it's not just, you know, you're just one of the guys that's looking at the others.
- [11:42]
Jemele Hill
That's a great question. I don't necessarily think of it in that mindset, but I do know, and I'm acutely aware of my job is no longer just to kind of watch tape and stack draft boards and, you know, bring in workout guys and think about shortlists and all that stuff. I mean, that's, that's all a massive part of it. But, you know, as Pete and I try to get this thing going in the direction that it needs to go and the Raiders fans deserve. I'm acutely aware of that. You know, I've got a lot of people now that report to me on a day to day basis that I didn't have in the past. And, and I had a great mentor with Jason. I watched him kind of work that building and walk through and spend time with everybody from the training room to the equipment room to the outside, the facilities guys, the groundskeepers, and that's, that's the job that they hired me to do here. And to me, I've got to be intentional about that every day because it's. Were talking, you know, before we signed up. This building is. It's a beautiful building and it's a massive building, and so it requires a little bit extra. And to me also, like, that was. It was really important for me to get a great team around me here so I can know that everything's being taken care of in the, in the personnel department with Brian Stark and Brandon Hunt and Anthony Patch and Mark Th came over from the Broncos too. So, yeah, I mean, that's the job here. I'm in charge of a lot of different Things and, and the human interaction and the communication that's, that's necessary to make those things really go is wildly important.
- [13:03]
John Middlekauff
I couldn't find the exact number, Chad. GPT wasn't dialed in. But you had interviewed a bunch of times before this year. Four different GM spots, correct or.
- [13:13]
Jemele Hill
Yeah. Three. Four. Yeah.
- [13:15]
John Middlekauff
Do you think, you know, your experience so far is different than you expected? You know what being a GM so far, I know the season hasn't even started. Hell, training camp still a couple months away, but what's it been like so far actually sitting in that seat than just being like, John Spytek is going to be a future gm? Well, now you're just John Spytek, the Raiders gm.
- [13:36]
Jemele Hill
I, I, I haven't really been caught off guard by too many things. I mean, I would, I would stop short of saying it's what I expected. But again, like I, with, with my experience with 9 years with Jason and sitting, you know, you know, right next to him and watching him work and that's always kind of binge on a, a strength of mine, I think. And I've been intentional about observing and you know, note taking notes and you know, mental or actual physical notes about, hey, this is what Jason's got to do on a day to day basis. This is what Tom Heckard had to do. How would I handle that? So I've, I spent a lot of time over the past decade, really, once I got that job with the Browns in 2010, thinking about all these different things. And so I don't, I don't necessarily think a lot of things catch me off guard, but there are things that happen on a day to day basis that you really can't predict. And am I prepared for all of them? To an extent. But I'm also kind of prepared to be unprepared, if that makes sense, and problem solve and work with people around here and communicate so we can make all the important decisions for the Raiders.
- [14:34]
John Middlekauff
You know, a lot of times when younger guys get either the first head coaching job or the first GM job, maybe they're with another guy who's inexperienced. I mean, you get, I was thinking about this, I mean, I would say over the last, definitely of the Internet age, he's got to be one of the more important football figures in Pete Carroll. It's got to be a pretty unique landing spot for you to come in with a guy who basically ran an NFL program in college and then obviously what he did in Seattle. So for 25 years he's kind of been kicking ass and Taking names. Pretty cool to be in your shoes and get to work on a daily basis for a guy with decades of knowledge at the highest level and winning.
- [15:13]
Jemele Hill
Yeah. Tell me to the theme that we talked about. The start. Super fortunate. The timing of it, you know, with how it all worked out with coach and you know, we, from the first time we talked, I think we share, we have a pretty common vision and share a belief in what's important in players and programs. I admired his work from afar for many, many years. I was on the receiving end of a quite an ass kicking in the Super Bowl 48 in New York when his team, I think it was 43 to 8, they beat our Broncos. And you know, there's a, there's a confidence and a. What's the right word? Just a security in knowing that. Like he's got that all stuff handled down there. You know, he's, he's got a vision. He's. He, there's not many things that are going to surprise him at all. He's seen a lot of it and he's a great resource for me from that standpoint too. From, you know, day to day, working with the team roster building, you know, this guy's really ascending. Even though people might not see it yet, this guy really maybe doesn't fit in. You know, the draft process was, was an awesome experience with him and the coaching staff. And you know, I just, I'm grateful to, to, to lean on his wisdom and his experiences and that also we share a common belief and it is just. There's a lot of synergy between us.
- [16:24]
John Middlekauff
I mean, on the outside, obviously his energy, the ability to chew gum at just a rapid speed, the shoes. But is there something that you've learned about him in your time with them that you didn't know? That's, that's been impressive.
- [16:38]
Jemele Hill
I, I just think how authentic it is. You know, it's, it's to a core, to his core, who he is and you know, all those, all those nuances, the gum chewing, I mean, there's, there's bubble. I think it's bubble, bubble yum. There's, it's everywhere in the building. I mean, you can't walk 10 steps and not be like, well, I'll pop some more gum. And I've had this much bubble yum since I was like 10 years old back in Pewaukee, Wisconsin. But he is who he is and it, you know, it, the energy, it doesn't wane. It's, it's, there's a, there's A longevity to it that I think the guys really respect and it resonates with them. And that's. If you look back to those Seattle teams, I mean, the energy, the legion of boom, you know, the way that they competed and hustled like that, that stuff is real. And he preaches it every day, but he lives it every day. And so I think it really empowers our players and impresses our players to live that life too.
- [17:28]
John Middlekauff
Do you think it helps that you got, like, when you went to Tampa with Jason and build that thing to where it is now, just kind of rolling and making the playoffs every year. And obviously Pete, who took over sc, that was not the SC that. When he left and definitely Seattle, I think. Didn't he like, lead the league in transactions his first year, like 700 or something?
- [17:47]
Jemele Hill
Oh, yeah, it was 700, John. But we. He talks. It was a lot.
- [17:51]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, it was legitimately like 150 or. I mean, it was crazy. Yeah, that makes this experience like you both can lean back on. You know, this is what we did. This is what we did. Especially Pete, like, he's been doing it since the 90s of personnel transactions, like with the 49ers making this transition, which is, let's face it, a little daunting, not only given your division, but where the Raiders have been, you know, over the course of recent history.
- [18:16]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, I think there's a confidence in. At least in my journey too. You know, I mean, we. I've been a part of a lot of great teams. You know, I went to Cleveland. I thought we did a lot of good things in Cleveland for three years. We drafted some really good players, but we didn't win. And that's the most important thing. You know, when I got to Tampa, we. We struggled for two or three years there to really kind of build that thing. And then we kind of found our way through it. We had a lot of critical, self aware, critical discussions. And you could almost go back to like, almost like a day or a month in Tampa and know, like, this is when we started to get it right and this is where it led us. And it ended up with Tom Brady coming and winning a Super bowl right after that. And, you know, so there's a confidence, like I, you know, it's always a little bit different. Every. Every organization has its own energy and history, and so we've got to take that all into account too. But with watching what Pete did basically everywhere he's been and build it up and what we were able to accomplish in. In Tampa, and then using my past experiences, too. I mean, I think. I think we know what we need to do, but. But now the execution of it is the most important part.
- [19:19]
John Middlekauff
Obviously, the number changes during the season because you have injuries, but didn't you guys have like 44, 45 guys that were on your 53 last year that were drafted by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers? So it was basically like 95% or something.
- [19:31]
Jemele Hill
Yeah. The stat, I believe, is at the, you know, the opening day roster, the first initial 53, 44 of those guys were either drafted or signed as undrafted free agents by. By us. And I think all but two starters, which were Baker Mayfield and Ben Bredesen.
- [19:47]
John Middlekauff
How'd you guys do that?
- [19:51]
Jemele Hill
We had a great scouting staff and we had a great gm, and we. We really knew what we were looking for. Like, you know, when we. When we critically evaluated ourselves in about 2017 in Tampa and said, where have we messed up? Where have we gotten it right? Okay, well, let's not. Let's stop doing the things that don't work, and let's do a lot more of the things that. That work. And we started kind of right there in 2017. 18. Those drafts were huge for us, especially 18. And you go into that super bowl roster, I mean, a lot of those guys were. Seven or eight of those prominent players were on rookie contracts. And we just kind of stuck with that process of draft quality, people that play great football and then resign as many of those guys as you can. And the reality is, is if you do that really well, you're going to lose some guys. We lost Jordan Whitehead. We lost Alex Capa. We lost some guys. But we were able to keep so many of those guys and pay them big contracts because, you know, we knew exactly what they were to their core. We weren't. We weren't scared to give Tristan WFS that deal or Antoine Winfield that deal because we knew how good of people they were.
- [21:01]
John Middlekauff
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Jemele Hill
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John Middlekauff
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Jemele Hill
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John Middlekauff
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- [28:54]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, yeah, it was something that worked for us. There's like you said, there's a lot of different ways to do it. You know, when we looked at that, Jason actually started that before I got there with Ali Marpette. And that was the 2005 draft, right? Yeah. And you know, that worked. And then we signed Ryan Jensen and it just, you kind of have this feel like, hey, it's. He's not like to your point with Logan Mankins, he's not a left tackle or a right tackle body in the NFL, but he's the best player on his own line and whatever school he's at, he plays the most stressful position on the O line, left tackle. And there's a lot of great qualities to those guys that, you know, just because physically they don't line up or, you know, get out of the bus, off the bus, looking like you want your left tackle to look. Doesn't mean they're not great players. And so, you know, the Ryan Jensen's, the Cody Mox, the Alex Kappas of the world, Graham Barton from Duke, you know, into center last year. I mean, it's just something that really worked for us. And they're. They're guys that are wired the right way, they're competitive as hell, smart as hell, and, you know, listen, we'd all love to draft the best offensive lineman that Georgia and Alabama have every year, but the reality is you're not gonna be able to do that. So how can you. How can you problem solve and line up a bunch of guys that go out there and as a group probably make up outside of the quarterback, one of the most, if not the most important position group in, in our game.
- [30:10]
John Middlekauff
Okay, let's talk about the 25 draft before we get into individual players. Your first draft as a gm, harder or easier than you thought?
- [30:21]
Jemele Hill
I didn't have much to compare it to. It was. It was hard. You know, it was. You know, it was drinking from a fire hose. I mean, there's like, there's a gift that I kept sending people. How's it going? It's Peter Griffin with a fire hose up to his face and his son turns it on. And this one, when the water stops, it's just a skull and a bunch of blood dripping down his neck. But, you know, it was awesome. I mean, I loved it. I love the collaboration with Pete and the coaching staff. Brandon, Jurgen here did a great job. Our college scouts kind of dove head first into what I was asking them to do. And, you know, I feel good. I feel good about what we were able to accomplish in a short period of time, which I think, at least for me, and I know for an organization, brings us confidence that as we, as we work together here with onboarding, Brian Stark and Patch and Brandon Hutton, all these guys from really winning organizations, we can do. We can do really great things here because to me, and I've said it many times, the draft, if you can, if you can win at the draft, if you can do better than your, you know, the other teams of the draft, that's how you build and a great team and then sustain it.
- [31:23]
John Middlekauff
Well, I mean, one advantage you have getting this job is because of the Raiders record last year, you're drafting high in this draft and the other three teams in your division are drafting later. So I mean, who knows how it's going to play out the next couple years, but right now, for this upcoming season, the next couple years, you have access to just players that they don't. Did you feel like tangible pressure just based on the division alone and just know the daunting task that is ahead?
- [31:48]
Jemele Hill
You know, first of all, I hope this is the last time we pick in front of those guys. You know, I don't want to pick up here anymore, but if given the opportunity to pick in the top 10, we gotta, we've gotta be. We've got to find an elite player and we've got to find an elite person. And I, I think that that kind of goes with any round, but, you know, there's a heightened energy to it when it's, when it's in the top 10. I mean, you better, in my opinion, you better be greedy about the kind of player you're looking at and greedy about the kind of competitor and person and, you know, passionate football player that you're looking for. And so we found that in Ashton, in our opinion, you know, some people maybe don't value the running back to a certain degree. I don't know. I didn't. We've already alluded to. I went to Michigan, I, we, we value the hell out of those guys. And he's more importantly to me. He's a great kid. You know, he, he was revered in that Boise State program because he treated people the right way and was a great running back. And he's been every bit of that since he's shown up here, too. Would you. When you talk to people around, you know, our building right now, the first thing they talk about with Ashton isn't how fast he is or the fact that, you know, you can't get him. You know, he never falls over. It's that man, is he humble and he's, he's a great worker and treats his teammates the right way.
- [33:04]
John Middlekauff
You know, full disclosure, I was one of those people that just when you look at the draft historically, right, you know, taking a guy in a deep running back class and listen, I'm, I'm a whack Mountain west guy. I revere Boise State. And his story speaks for itself. I mean, he turned down who knows how much money to stay at Boise State. The character, you watch him on tv, it was like a video game. But I mean, I'm sure you guys had the conversation about balancing, like the running back position. We could get a guy in different rounds, but in this individual draft, was it just like this guy's too good. And clearly the quote unquote level of competition didn't phase you. I guess just the scouting process on this player. Because when you were in Tampa, I remember watching an Oregon game had to be like week two. You were probably asleep because it was like 11:30 at night, Pacific Standard Time. And he's rushing for like 700 yards. I mean, legitimately went for 200 yards against number one team in the country. Your scouting process when you were at Tampa and how that translated into following him and, and vetting him before you pulled the trigger and made him a Raider.
- [34:10]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, that was one of the things I'm looking forward to out here on the west coast is seeing all the games, waking up on, on Sunday morning and checking box scores and being like, Ashton had 206 on Oregon last night. And I was, you know, I've been asleep for three hours. You know, I it to your question, it's about team building and what's the right way to do it. And we had many conversations because it was a dream. Keep running back class, like, what's the best order to do this in, you know, if we take action here, who do we get in the second round? If we take this player here, then maybe we can come back in the second round getting running back. And you know, this group of players, you know, this position group, you know, the more premier positions, edge, rusher, tackle, you know, they're going to probably be gone ultimately. Obviously, we decided that Ashton was worth it. And to me it's the kind of person he is that, that elevated it finally. Like we were, we can't, we can't turn down 28 yards short of Barry Sanders and a great, humble person at six. I mean, I, I, I'd wake up every, I go to bed every Sunday night wondering what Ashton Genti did somewhere else in the NFL ultimately, if we didn't take them. And the, there was just a lot of motivation from the way that we saw it, the way that Pete wants to build the team, the way that, you know, that Seattle franchise changed when, when Marshawn lynch showed up. Now I'm not saying he's Marshawn Lynch. I don't really do comparisons, but the idea of this kind of tone setter in the run game and the amount of times he's going to touch the ball really matters to our program.
- [35:38]
John Middlekauff
When was a specific time that you felt comfortable in the process when you were the gm that like, okay, if he's there, we're gonna, we're gonna pull the Trigger and take him. Was there a moment either at his pro day or sitting in the office with Pete a week before. And maybe you've talked about this already, but where you just. Obviously he was growing on you as you get to know the guy at the visits, the. The combine. But just like, okay, we have no problem pulling the trigger if he's sitting there for us at six.
- [36:04]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, I'm a big believer in using the entire process. So from the combine interview to the. To the pro day that I went to, spoke with the head coach for quite a long time, watched Ashton move through that building. You know, he came on his top 30 visit. He was great in the building. So it was just kind of like checkbox, checkbox, checkbox. And we had a lot of great visits with a lot of great guys, and we had a lot of great options out there. But as we talked about it and visit with the staff and. And explained the idea to ownership, it just became clear that if he was there, he was going to be our guy. He was the right kind of person for us at this moment, if the way that we want to build this. And, you know, he's. He's just been an achiever everywhere, and he's a passionate football guy. I mean, I think one of my. My two favorite things maybe about him are the fact that he didn't leave Boise. You know, they were the ones that gave him the offer. He's a loyal guy. That, that to me, if you track those guys over the past couple years that have done that, Quinn Mitchell was another one. They're. They're the right kind of dude.
- [36:59]
John Middlekauff
Drake May.
- [37:00]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, they're the right kind of dude. And Graham Barton was that for us. And, you know, he could have gone to a lot of different places, he told us, and he's like, no, I'm staying Duke. Like, they're the ones who believed in, like, to me, like, that stuff matters. And then the idea that he, He. He was playing as a freshman in Naples, Italy, and just dying to play football. So I found a place because his dad was, you know, stationed over there as part of the Navy and playing against Naples, Italy, and then his dad, you know, finishes his. His. His military career, and they're like, where should we go? And they're like, let's go to Frisco, Texas, where the football's great. I want to compete against the best people in the country. I mean, that's who the kid is to his core. And so when it gets hard around here and hot around here, I don't see a kid that'll bat an eye. I see a kid that'll just buckle down and play.
- [37:43]
John Middlekauff
Four of your next five picks after Genti were offense, two wide receivers, two offensive linemen. Are you just a purely. Let the board speak to me. Was there a need on offense at the skill position with the wide receivers, just philosophically, is that just somewhat random and that's just how the board fell, or was that an emphasis going into the draft? Do we need a little more skill and definitely some guys in the trenches on offense?
- [38:07]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, it really was how the board fell. I. I've made it no secret that, that I love linemen and I know Pete does too. I mean, this game's about the trenches, but, you know, we, we have a great process that I learned in Tampa and have refined and added to the way we do it here. We stack everything from, you know, quality of player, quality of person, scout evaluation, coach evaluation, injury, character. And as the board goes, we. We just pull the top name off the board and turns out that it was five or six guys run offense still like how we came back on day three with Tonka and JJ Pegis and guys are doing really well right now, so just tried to pick the best player for the Raiders every opportunity that we had.
- [38:49]
John Middlekauff
You know, speaking of lineman, when you guys got the job and you guys did that dual press conference, I think Max was in the back and at the time it was kind of being conversated about like, is this, is he going to get traded? Is he going to ask for a trade, what's going to go on? And obviously Max Crosby is probably one of the more respected guys in the league. Just from a player and coaching executive standpoint, people just love the way he plays. Was that just something? Under no circumstance we're just going to find a way to keep Max Crosby here. Or they're just serious conversations you had with him at first before about a month later, you know, giving him $100 million.
- [39:25]
Jemele Hill
Oh, he just embodied when Pete and I studied the roster and listen, I mean, you do what I do. You, you have a lot of, you know, in, in Tampa, you. I watch the whole league. I mean, just so much respect for Max and the way he competes and plays the game on a day to day basis or a game to game basis play to play basis music. I play 100 of the snaps at a high effort, physical position. I mean it's all. It's really unheard of. And it just became clear. I visited with Max pretty much the first week I had the job that this is the kind of guy that we want to build this program around. And, I mean, sure, that there's plenty of people that your new gm, and they want to see if they can shake your trees and see if they can steal somebody from you. And, you know, maybe or maybe not. Jason Light tried to get him before I even got on a. On a jet to Vegas.
- [40:07]
John Middlekauff
How many. How many. How many GMs called? Were you just like, man, I'm hanging up right now?
- [40:13]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, it was. Jason was sitting in my house telling me, like, max, for a fifth sounds great right now for everything I've done for you in my. In my life. And I was like, jason, don't get me fired so I can come right back to Tampa. I mean, at least give me a real shot here. But he just is what we. We want to be. You know, I mean, when I. When I sat with him, he asked like, what can I do to be better? And I said, max, this might be controversial, but maybe. Maybe we don't play 100 of the snaps. You know, maybe we played 95 of the snaps. So when the biggest moments, you're fresh. And he was like, oh, kills me to come off the field. Like, that's. That's what we want. When we traded for JPP in. In Tampa, he was a guy that. He'd fight you to come off if you try to take him off the field. And when you're. When you're trying to flip cultures like this, we need more guys like that. We need guys that are like, you gotta. You gotta kill me not to be out there. I gotta be really hurt not to be out there. Otherwise, I don't care. I'm gonna give it my best every play. And, you know, I just. I just didn't think. Pete didn't think. Really? Nobody thought that the Raiders are a better team if we move on from Max Crosby. And so we felt like giving him his new deal. That was earned and something that we were motivated to do.
- [41:17]
John Middlekauff
Speaking of guy that doesn't like coming off the field, Tom Brady was a guy you guys signed in Tampa. I think Operation Shoeless Joe is. Is what you call that thing there was. I just. Dan Pompeii does. When he does an article. He did one about the D.C. spagnola in Kansas City and one on you and Tom's relationship. Both of them are two of the better things I've read in the last probably year. You know, there's that famous clip on NFL Films where Brady's sitting in Belichick's office. And it came out like he basically went in there on a Monday or Tuesday every year of his career, every week, leading in. And you became Belichick, essentially, correct?
- [41:57]
Jemele Hill
I didn't say that.
- [41:58]
John Middlekauff
No, no, no, no. I'm just saying you played that role of going over the opponent.
- [42:03]
Jemele Hill
Yeah.
- [42:04]
John Middlekauff
Can you tell me about the nerves of that first week, one 2020 meeting of presenting? Was it Tuesday afternoon when you and Tom would meet, or was it Monday? I guess it might change.
- [42:15]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, it was Tuesday or Monday, depending on, you know, the kind of the schedule for that week and the cadence for that week. And, yeah, Jason came to me and said, you know, they used to do that. And I. I had seen all the. And I had consumed all those things that came out in the. Do your job post Super Bowl. So I. I was aware of that this could be a possibility. I don't think really anything prepares you for it when, I mean, everyone says, we're teammates in Michigan. Yeah, we were teammates. I mean, we hadn't really spoken in 20, whatever years. It was up to that point. So it wasn't like this was my friend walking in the building and we're just going to shoot the. Anyway, so he was like, you got to do this, and, you know, it's going to be good. And here's kind of the format that they use, the New England, and, you know, you can put your spin on it however you want. And so I had Rob McCartney, the new assistant GM there, join me, because Rob's a wealth of knowledge and excellent in his job and thought, like, we know probably better to have two people here for. For Tom than just one. And I just remember thinking, like, you know, he's like, all right, Babe One. He always called me Babe. One o' clock. I'll be up there in the draft room. And. And he walked. And I remember thinking to myself, like, all right, just let it rip. And we talked about Marshawn Lattimore and Demario Davis and Janoris Jenkins and, you know, all the Marcus Williams and all the great players that the Saints had, because that's. We played week one and he walked out. And I was like, well, we'll see if he comes back. And he came back the next week. And so even though we didn't win and he threw two picks and. But, you know, there was. It was. It was such a fun conversation because his Rolodex of players is great. You know, when you. When you tell Tom, like, hey, this is a great corner, he goes, well, is it Darrell Reavis? Well, no, it's a great safety. Was this Ed Reed? Detroit Palomalu? No, but he's good, you know. You know, and so we always had a fun back and forth with that.
- [44:01]
John Middlekauff
Was there a moment, like the Hecker moment during that first season where you're like, okay, we're on the same page here. He respects me. I feel good. I'm not maybe quote unquote nervous going in or every week you felt like the. The. I mean, because by then, I mean, he's freaking Tom Brady, right?
- [44:16]
Jemele Hill
Yeah.
- [44:17]
John Middlekauff
So was there ever a moment or were you just. Were you always kind of just pretty on edge going into that meeting because of the. Just intensity of the guy, or was he more chill in that environment?
- [44:29]
Jemele Hill
I would not call him chill in that environment. I would. You know, we had. We had great football conversations, but always passionate, always direct. You know, I. There was always. It was like, almost like going to a game. There was always butterflies because of, you know, the. The gravity of it. I mean, it. It became less about talking to, you know, this. This, you know, quarterback. It became more about, like, how can I help the Bucks be their best every Sunday, and if I can give Tom the information that he needs in a manner of which he can process it, compartmentalize, and then use it as necessary, that. That was the most important thing to. To Robin myself. And it be kind of came about learning the way that he liked things, the order in which he liked it, how to describe the player to him so he could use it, you know, and there was a couple times throughout that year that we attacked a certain player that we told him to attack. That works. And, you know, we. He never said anything. I didn't know that that was the reason that our meeting was the reason that he. That he did it or they did it, but I didn't know that it wasn't. And one of the most poignant, John, one of those poignant moments of my career was standing on the sidelines in. In Washington before we were about to kick off against the. The football team at the time, and he. He was reading something on the bench, and we got the ball first. He was reading something on the bench, and then he put his helmet on, threw it down, put his helmet on and walked on the field. And he was reading the write up that we have printed for him. And that to me was like, wow. Like, the last thing he did before he walked on the field to start our playoff run was read the. Read the little write ups we did on all the. The Washington dbs and that, to me, was a pretty surreal experience.
- [46:16]
John Middlekauff
I mean, who would have thought? I mean, did you realize at the time, like, four or five years later, I don't know, a colleague, your boss, how you want to consider him, but like, you, your friend, you know, the relationship that you guys have developed? Because like you said, you were at Michigan with him, but it wasn't. You were a walk on. You were young. He was old.
- [46:35]
Jemele Hill
I wasn't a walk on. Hold on, hold on. I wasn't.
- [46:37]
John Middlekauff
Okay. Scully, Scully, Scully. Scholarship.
- [46:41]
Jemele Hill
I didn't have a decorated career, but I did. I was a good enough high school player to get a scholarship.
- [46:48]
John Middlekauff
It does say undrafted on your wiki page. Did you get an invite to a camp?
- [46:54]
Jemele Hill
I went to grad school. I went and got my master's degree in sports management because I'm a smart Michigan dude. So what?
- [47:01]
John Middlekauff
So I guess in 2025, how would you describe your relationship with Tom?
- [47:08]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's probably all those things that you said, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, like, I'm not in this job because I'm his friend, or we had a, you know, a good time and won a Super bowl together, necessarily in Tampa. I feel like he gave me an opportunity to come interview for your job because he thought that, you know, I could help him and coach build something that, that our. Our fan base deserves, that this. This origin organization deserves, which is a winner that I, you know, done it at the highest levels that we had. We had sustained success in Tampa, which is what we're looking to do. And ultimately, like, we've got a job to do here, and that's. That's the most important thing that matters. I mean, this is a results driven business. There's nobody great. There's no greater winner in our game than Tom Brady, and that's what he expects every day. And that's why I'm here, and that's why coach is here, and that's why everybody that we've brought in since we've gotten the job is here. Because we've. We've got to win football games and we got to do it soon.
- [48:07]
John Middlekauff
Do you feel pressure on. On that, you know, just winning.
- [48:14]
Jemele Hill
Maybe? I don't really look at it like that. I feel like I got a job to do. And, you know, it's easy. Maybe it's easy for me to say that right now because we're not about to kick off against the Patriots, but, I mean, I'm sure there's a pressure with it, but I feel prepared, I feel confident, I feel excited for the challenge that lays out in front of us. And it it's Coach and I have got a plan, we're going to execute it and we're going to let it rip. And you know, our expectation is that we you see results this year, we see progress this year and we build this franchise into the winner that we all, that everybody deserves and that we keep it there. Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the.
- [48:54]
John Middlekauff
High octane world of sports, Vice Sports.
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Jemele Hill
Brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game, catch.
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John Middlekauff
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Jemele Hill
Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in.
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John Middlekauff
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Jemele Hill
@ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give.
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John Middlekauff
You something in return for karma. That's okay.
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Jemele Hill
I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.
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John Middlekauff
I'm good.
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Jemele Hill
Seriously?
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John Middlekauff
Hmm. Let me check this pocket.
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Jemele Hill
Oh, mints.
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Really, I'm fine.
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Jemele Hill
Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever. Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us. No trade in needed.
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Jemele Hill
To 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.
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Jemele Hill
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John Middlekauff
See t mobile.com this holiday season. Don't forget your number one fan. You. So what's a gift you could use? Maybe go to more home games or even travel to some away games while rocking a new away team jersey. Well, they've got something for you. Discover automatically doubles all the cash back you've earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with cash back match with Discover, you could turn 150 cash back to 300. That'll help with the swanky away jersey it pays to discover. See terms@discover.com credit card. Okay, I got a couple more quarterback questions because I know you got actual work to do today. I know you run a football team in the NFL, but you were just with Baker Mayfield the last couple years and I thought last year, I don't know if he's lost some weight. Obviously he's had a baby. His maturation. He's become one of the better players in the league. I thought he was awesome, but I mean, two years ago when you signed him, at least from the outside, there was a quarterback competition with Kyle Trask. So what did you see from that guy that you signed for? I think $4 million, you know, to compete for a job to what, by the end of last year, everyone considers them, I don't know, a top six, seven, eight quarterback in the NFL and clearly, like the heartbeat of your team.
- [53:54]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, it was a competition in 2023, and it was a close competition. And I think the thing that I respect most about Baker is he didn't come in with any kind of attitude other than, I'm here to compete, I'm here to give you guys my best, and I'm going to let it rip. And him and Kyle went back and forth for a while, and then really, Baker found his rhythm kind of halfway through the camp and just let it rip. And, you know, I've got the most respect for Baker because he. He's survived a bunch of different adversity in his life, and I think each time he's grown from it. You know, there's a self. There's a self awareness to him that I think is probably underappreciated. And he. He is all those things that you want as a quarterback. He can throw it. He's accurate. He. He's really tough. If, if he's a little dinged up and he's going to miss a practice or sit out of a practice, you can walk by and give him a little bit of grief, and he kind of bows up on you and says, I'm going to go out there and watch this. And the trainer's going, like, why? Why'd you do that for? Don't. He needs to. He needs to rest a little bit. And I, you know, I just. His maturity, I think, stood out. You know, he had his. He had his baby. He's. They're making Tampa their home. And I just. I got so much respect for him. The way he handled himself from the moment he walked in to the. To the doors at one Buck has been exemplary. And the guys, the guys up front, the guys in the team, they love him for that, and he's authentically who he is, and he's a great dude.
- [55:17]
John Middlekauff
It feels like when Dorsey drafted him number one, a lot of it was like the moxie and the intangible stuff, which feels like it really came out for you guys the last couple of years, like that. That version of that player that we saw at Oklahoma.
- [55:29]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, yeah. They just, you know, really, from the start with Jason and Todd, they just told him, just be yourself. You know, like, you're a good football player. I mean, empower them. Empowered him to be himself, to. To, you know, to let it rip. And just. He's got a lot of really Good players around there. He's got a great online, he's got a Hall of Fame, first ballot hall of Fame receiver. He's got one of the other great receivers in Buccaneers history with Chris. And you know, just, just be yourself and do your job and it'll work out. And, and he has. And the results speak for themselves.
- [55:57]
John Middlekauff
The last two years, the trade for Geno, was that something that early on? You know, there was rumblings out there that he could be available. Obviously Pete's history with John Schneider and the player specifically, probably not your normal trade, given that he had just coached the guy, make it a little bit easier to pull the trigger with. You know, I mean you're giving up draft capital, taking over a job that you need players just kind of how did that materialize? And so far through a couple months of being around and what's your experience around Geno Smith, who clearly a lot like Baker, just feels like an easy guy to root for.
- [56:30]
Jemele Hill
Yeah, well, I think from the opening press conference, if I remember correctly, it seems like two years ago, but I think Pete and I talked about, you know, we'll look, we'll look everywhere for a quarterback. And you know, that, that wasn't just, you know, coach speak or GM speak like we, we were serious about it. So we, we explored every avenue we call teams just to see, you know, I'd be embarrassed to tell you some of the players we probably asked, called and asked to trade for, but you just never.
- [56:54]
John Middlekauff
Andy said no one Mahomes.
- [56:56]
Jemele Hill
We didn't go that far, you know, but with Geno in particular, Pete has a history with him and he's played his best football for Pete and he played, he played well last year too. And so when you have, I mean it was a third round pick, but that's not a nothing pick. I mean those are, those are valuable picks in a GM's mind and a scouting staff's mind. And then to give him the contract, we had to give him too. I mean we had a, we had a look behind the curtain. Sent you with Pete to, to feel really, really confident about it and you know, to, to talk to everybody in the building like, hey, this is the right, this is the right move for the Raiders at this time. And he's been, he's been everything that we want him to be so far. He's, he's been here for every, every offseason workout that we've had. He's the leader we want. He's always been an extremely gifted thrower. You see that every day in camp and, you know, it's a work in progress with, with Chip and the new offense and, and learning the new players and the new system and having these rookies. We got a lot of rookies that are in with, with or with snaps with Gina right now. But he's been awesome so far and I'm excited to see him bring this offense to life here coming up in September.
- [58:03]
John Middlekauff
Is there an attribute with that position that doesn't get talked about, that you guys talk about internally with coaches, scouting staff, that when you listen to podcasts or television shows that you never hear discussed, that you're like, guys, there's an element, I mean, you've been around Peyton, Tom, you know, Donovan, McNabb, a lot of high level players in your life. I don't, I don't know if that's a tangible asset attribute or something intangible that just you're like, you guys are missing the boat on this one. This is the defining characteristic or one of them that helps lead to success.
- [58:39]
Jemele Hill
I guess I would say, you know, to that question, I'd say work ethic, you know, like Peyton. I've never seen anybody that work harder from Monday to Saturday than Peyton and Tom Brady, you know, so they make it look so easy on Sunday because they're so prepared, they're so dialed in, they're so confident in what they're seeing and what they're, what they're executing that it's second nature to them. They don't, they don't take days off, they don't leave early and come in late. They, Their work ethic is everything to them. You know, I mean, Tom's, Tom's ability in particular, because I had a front row seat for it. To take in so much information and then compartmentalize it and use it when necessary is such a unique trait because so much is demanded of that position. I mean, you think about it, you break a huddle, you know, you're in New England week one, there's, you know, 80, 000 people screaming, you can't hear. You got to know where everyone's supposed to line up. You got to know the motions, then you got to snap the ball and then you got to know where to throw. I mean, there's so much think about the amount of information that you have to process in a short period of time and what, what work needs to be done before that play even gets snapped throughout the whole week to execute it at a high level. And it's just no accident when you watch Peyton and Tom Work. And now that I watch Gino work, why, they're good. And I watch Baker work, you know, like they, they work harder than everybody else. It means more to them.
- [60:08]
John Middlekauff
Okay, I'll get you out of here. On the. The Gemini question of the day, the Gemini credit card. You earn crypto every time you make a purchase. Groceries, gas, you name it. Gemini.com card. What has we got to pay the bills around here? Fight Tech. What are the. What's been the best perk of being the general manager of an NFL team in Las Vegas?
- [60:36]
Jemele Hill
Sandra can get me on some golf courses that are pretty cool. I'll say that our president, Sandra is super well connected around here. And she's like, you want to talk.
- [60:44]
John Middlekauff
In my language now?
- [60:45]
Jemele Hill
Yeah. So I've got a chance to play the win. Got a chance to play the Summit Club. I don't get much time to do it, but it's. That's probably been the best perk so far because I'm a golf nut and it's kind of my happy place when I'm away from my family and away from football.
- [61:01]
John Middlekauff
Well, this summer, you know, you're going to find out. Is 115 dry heat or is that Florida 95 humidity heat? I'll be interested to know what is. What is more. Mostly humidity, But I'd say 115 plus living in Arizona is tough to play golf in.
- [61:20]
Jemele Hill
I know they're both hot. I'm a sick enough golfer that I'll give it a shot at least. And I do know when it's that hot, the ball goes really far. So you can feel really good about yourself when you can hit an eight iron as far as you can hit it in the 115 pride heat, you.
- [61:33]
John Middlekauff
Got a US Open pick on your way out.
- [61:36]
Jemele Hill
I mean, I'd be. I'd be fooled. And I say Scotty, right?
- [61:39]
John Middlekauff
Yeah, he looks pretty good.
- [61:42]
Jemele Hill
Scotty, I like it.
- [61:44]
John Middlekauff
I don't think you can go wrong with Scotty Scheffler. Okay. John, I can't.
- [61:48]
Jemele Hill
Don't overthink it, Right? I mean, I'd like to make a more. More off the radar pick, but let's not overthink this.
- [61:54]
John Middlekauff
No. Well, enjoy practice today. I can't thank you enough for coming on with me, and I look forward to watching you guys.
- [62:01]
Jemele Hill
It's.
- [62:02]
John Middlekauff
Guys, I mean, it's gonna be fun. The AFC west is no joke. You got Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, Jim Harbaugh and Sean Payton. So best of luck to you and can't wait to watch your team. Play.
- [62:11]
Jemele Hill
Appreciate it, John. Thanks for having me on today. The Volume.
- [62:20]
John Middlekauff
There are moments in life when you get to make a real difference and this is one of them. I want to tell you about Folds of Honor. They provide educational scholarships to spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. Since 2007, they've awarded nearly 62,000 scholarships. If you've been looking to give back to do something meaningful, this is it. Go to foldsofhonor.org give what you can. Together we can honor educate, unite.
- [62:48]
Jemele Hill
I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics. On this week's episode, I'm joined by all time great Hooper and basketball analyst.
- [62:56]
John Middlekauff
Candace Parker, who gives insight into her.
- [62:59]
Jemele Hill
Candid new book, including why she waited.
- [63:01]
John Middlekauff
Two years into marriage to come out.
- [63:02]
Jemele Hill
I never envisioned being with a woman. I'll just be honest. Like when I close my eyes at night, every night, I was like, I need to find my prince charming.
- [63:11]
John Middlekauff
Like it was never a princess. Make sure you listen to this episode.
- [63:14]
Jemele Hill
Of Spolitix on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.
- [63:17]
John Middlekauff
Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This Pride Month, we are not just celebrating, we're fighting back. I'm George M. Johnson, author of the most banned book in America. On my podcast, Fighting Words, I sit down with voices that spark resistance and inspire change. This year we are showing up and showing up.
- [63:36]
Jemele Hill
You need people being like, no, you're not going to tell us what to do.
- [63:40]
John Middlekauff
This regime is coming down on us.
- [63:42]
Jemele Hill
And I don't want to just survive. I want to thrive.
- [63:46]
John Middlekauff
Fighting Words is where courage meets conversation. Listen on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [63:56]
Jemele Hill
I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have.
- [64:00]
John Middlekauff
You ever had to shoot your gun?
- [64:01]
Jemele Hill
Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a.
- [64:05]
John Middlekauff
Future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season one, Taser Incorporated.
- [64:13]
Jemele Hill
I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.