Summary6 min read

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: 3 & Out – Rams and Patriots WIN, Harbaugh in a New York State of Mind
Host: John Middlekauff (The Volume)
Date: January 19, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode covers a monumental playoff weekend in the NFL, focusing on the Rams and Patriots advancing to the championship games, dramatic moments in the Bears-Rams matchup, reflections on quarterback performance under pressure (highlighting Caleb Williams and CJ Stroud), and an in-depth look at John Harbaugh’s blockbuster coaching deal with the New York Giants. Middlekauff blends big-picture sports philosophy with granular game analysis, offering both tactical football insights and thoughts on team identity, coaching hierarchies, and the emotional roller coaster of fandom.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Resurrection of the Bears and Patriots (02:10–12:00, 36:32–53:34)

Massive Playoff Wins: Rams and Patriots advance; Bears, previously “dead,” now revitalized and playoff relevant.
Nostalgia & Team Identity: Middlekauff frames the Bears and Patriots as classic NFL brands whose resurgence is “good for the league.”
- Quote: “When a brand that should matter, that historically has mattered, that’s been down and out matters again... it’s really, really cool.” — John Middlekauff (05:25)
Chicago’s Playoff Atmosphere: Describes Chicago’s energy as “beautiful,” comparing Philadelphia and Chicago fans’ passion.
Contrast with College Football: NFL’s cold-weather, high-stakes games described as unique, communal, and almost tribal.

2. Quarterback Play & Offensive Philosophy: Caleb Williams, Ben Johnson & the Bears Offense (08:29–22:57)

Caleb Williams’ Skillset vs. Ben Johnson’s Philosophy: Caleb’s playmaking, especially outside the structure, often at odds with the more rigid Ben Johnson offensive approach.
- Quote: “Caleb’s best skill by far is his playmaking ability. Honestly, he’s the best playmaker right now in the NFL.” (09:14)
Tension on Fourth Downs: Ben Johnson’s aggressive fourth-down philosophy sometimes clashes with in-game context, notably eschewing field goals in frigid, low-scoring conditions.
- “Ben Johnson is obsessed with going for it always... I’m sorry, I’m out on which I respect.” (16:55)
Under-utilized QB Runs: Questioning why the Bears do not leverage Williams’ mobility more: “Why not use Caleb’s legs? Why not run a quarterback power?” (13:21)
Ben Johnson vs. the McVay/Shanahan Coaching Tree: Playful speculation about a “personal” rivalry fueling Johnson’s coaching identity.
- “For some reason, hates McVay and all of his friends... Hates the Shanahans. Kubiax probably can't stand that tree, which I also respect.” (13:40)
Memorable Moment: Caleb’s game-tying play to force overtime
- “That play he made to send it to overtime — less than 10 guys in the history of the NFL could make that play.” (09:25)
Clutch Factor & Bears Fan Emotions: “These last couple weeks, if you're Bears fans and you attended the game, that is priceless... that's the type moment you tell your friends till the day you die.” (24:11)

3. Rams Grit: McVay, Stafford, and Toughness in the Cold (12:09–22:06)

Sean McVay’s Cold-Weather Strategy: Praises the Rams’ ability to win physically in brutal conditions, underscores the challenge for West Coast teams.
- Quote: “When you can go as a west coast team and go to frigid conditions and set the tone physically, you’re a well built team.” (18:28)
Stafford’s Limitations: Analyzes how a stationary, aging QB (Stafford) forces a precision game where everyone must execute perfectly.

4. The Patriots: Mike Vrabel’s Impact and Team Toughness (36:32–41:15)

Vrabel’s Gritty Blueprint: Vrabel has re-infused the Patriots with old-school toughness, discipline, and a collective identity.
- Quote: “There is a grittiness and a toughness to the Patriots... The group is better than the sum of their parts.” (37:14)
Drake Maye’s Arc: Rookie QB shows promise amidst adversity, and the Patriots' defense/special teams build margin for error.

5. CJ Stroud’s Meltdown & Texans’ Dilemma (41:35–53:18)

Stroud’s Freefall: Middlekauff recounts Stroud’s disastrous performance—three picks in ten plays, repeated hero-ball mistakes, and inability to handle the elements.
- “That’s as bad of a game as you can ever see.” (49:51)
Touch Passers in Cold Weather: Outlines the historical struggles of touch-passers like Goff and Stroud in frigid conditions versus power throwers/more mobile QBs.
Coaching Dilemma: Criticizes Houston for not benching Stroud, noting in an earlier era “a player of CJ’s stature...would have got the hook at halftime.” (46:52)
Implications for Future Contracts: Asserts the Texans can’t consider an early extension for Stroud; he must prove himself in poor conditions and high stakes.

6. John Harbaugh’s $100 Million Giants Deal – A New York State of Mind (53:51–1:06:17)

A Power Move: Harbaugh signs a 5-year, $100 million contract with the Giants; Middlekauff frames this as restoring “credibility for a franchise that was kind of dead.”
New York Needs a Boss: Harbaugh compared to Parcells, Coughlin, and other iconic New York “alpha” head coaches.
- “The Giants have gone through a stretch where they’ve had a lot of twos and threes... If you’re a great one... you get $100 million.” (56:36)
GM/Coach Power Dynamic: Warns of potential dysfunction if Harbaugh is forced to answer to GM Joe Schoen, drawing parallels to previous NFL power struggles.
- “[The Giants] should have got the hint and figured it out and done it for him that this relationship... if it doesn’t, I think that’s pretty crazy because clearly Jon wanted no part of the previous hierarchy.” (64:48)
Significance for the Giants: If successful, Harbaugh gets “extra credit” for reviving a storied but recently underperforming franchise.

7. Fandom, Heartbreak, and the Sweetness of the Ride (67:01–68:10)

Dramatic Losses: Explores the pain and pride of playoff heartbreak for teams like the Bears and Bills.
- “If you’ve sucked forever, you want to be in the game. You want to play a great game even if you lose.” (66:52)
Perspective: Bears fans, despite losing, can “hold your head high and be excited.” (68:04)

Notable Quotes & Time Stamps

On the communal stress of being a fan:
“It’s in a weird way, a very communal thing to do, but it’s also not that fun. It’s stressful. It’s exhilarating. Highs and lows.” — John Middlekauff (24:23)
On Bears QB Caleb Williams:
“His best skill by far is his playmaking ability. Honestly, he’s the best playmaker right now in the NFL.” (09:14)
“Why not use Caleb’s legs? Why not run a quarterback power?” (13:21)
On Ben Johnson’s philosophy:
“Ben Johnson is obsessed with going for it always... I’m sorry, I’m out on which I respect.” (16:55)
On CJ Stroud’s struggles:
“He did not have a good game. His confidence was lost and he was a gigantic liability.” (47:17)
“CJ Stroud’s comp is really much closer to Jared Goff... What happens in the freezing cold? Can’t feel your hands.” (44:25)
On John Harbaugh to the Giants:
“He just knew that guy was a one. That guy ain’t a two or a three. He’s a one. He’s the leader of this operation.” (56:36)
“It brings back credibility for a franchise that was kind of dead and this situation is the only thing that could derail it.” (66:08)
On playoff heartbreak:
“When you haven’t got over the hump, I feel like staying really, really hard. And then there’s a category... where you’re just so happy to be there, it’s gonna sting. But within a couple days, you’ll be able to hold your head high and be excited.” (67:55–68:04)

Recommended Listening Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Time (MM:SS) | |-------------------------------------|--------------| | Opening Thoughts & Playoff Picture | 02:10–04:11 | | Bears-Rams & NFL Nostalgia | 04:11–12:00 | | Bears Offense & Ben Johnson | 08:29–22:57 | | Game Management & Clutch Moments | 15:35–24:45 | | Patriots’ Turnaround & Vrabel | 36:32–41:15 | | CJ Stroud’s Playoff Struggles | 41:35–53:18 | | Harbaugh Joins the Giants | 53:51–1:06:17| | Fandom & Playoff Heartache | 67:01–68:10 |

Tone & Style

Middlekauff is candid, opinionated, occasionally irreverent, and deeply steeped in the culture and “feeling” of football cities. The conversation moves from analytical to personal, sprinkling in both heavy football jargon and big-picture life lessons. There’s a clear love of tradition, spirited rivalries, and the drama that the NFL delivers.

Summary Prepared for listeners/alumni who missed the episode, need quick orientation, or want deeper insight into the latest seismic NFL events and the evolving culture of America’s favorite sport.

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Transcript578 lines

[00:00]
Podcast Host
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[01:03]
John Middlekopf
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[01:10]
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[01:14]
John Middlekopf
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[01:49]
Commercial Disclaimer Voice
The volume.
[02:03]
John Middlekopf
What is going on everybody? John Middle Cop three and Out Podcast.
[02:07]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing well.
[02:10]
John Middlekopf
We had a massive day.
[02:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The Rams and the Patriots advance to the Final Four. They will take on obviously the Broncos, who don't have a quarterback. Well, they have Jared Stidham, but now they're starting quarterback in the Seahawks next Sunday. So that's.
[02:24]
John Middlekopf
That's exciting.
[02:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I haven't talked about. So we'll talk about both games today.
[02:30]
John Middlekopf
Big stories, situations, the Bears, the Patriots.
[02:33]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I mean these franchises were dead. Now they've been resurrected. C.J.
[02:36]
John Middlekopf
Stroud'S performance, Sean McVeigh and the toughness that his team displayed.
[02:41]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I do need to talk about John Harbaugh who signed a massive contract with the New York Giants. And the good and the bad with that situation I I also have been asked a couple questions.
[02:52]
John Middlekopf
Does Netflix not allow me to do mailbags? That is not true.
[02:56]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
We will do mailbags.
[02:57]
John Middlekopf
I just had a baby last week.
[02:59]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
So I I didn't have time. Like I just, I recorded a bunch of stuff earlier in the week. It just wasn't a normal week. But mailbags are going to be a huge part, as they always have been of our thing here.
[03:10]
John Middlekopf
So fire in those DMs at John.
[03:11]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Middlekopf is the Instagram we're gonna bang out probably a bunch this week as well as I have a long list to talk about the Daddy Diaries. So now that I'm officially a father, no big deal. Takes from the hospital takes from some early experience with my my little guy. So we will we'll do Daddy Diaries probably on on Tuesday's show. So I'll record it tomorrow. That's at least a plan. Maybe on Wednesday show. We got to pick a date here soon but with football season kind of weird. But so the obviously mailbag not going anywhere.
[03:45]
John Middlekopf
So make sure you subscribe three and.
[03:47]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Out if you listen on Collins Feed, Apple, Spotify, wherever and obviously Netflix. We've been rocking a week on Netflix. We did a Saturday show again two.
[03:55]
John Middlekopf
Days after I had a baby. Not tooting my own horn but grinding.
[03:58]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Over here with my people and back again this week. So they're having me we find it just type in the name subscribe and you'll you'll never for alerts you'll never miss an episode for the video standpoint. But let's talk some football.
[04:12]
John Middlekopf
So let's start with the Bears and the Rams.
[04:13]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Obviously the Rams get a massive win.
[04:16]
John Middlekopf
And I big picture thought before we talk anything specific with football, as someone.
[04:21]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
That does this for a living who.
[04:23]
John Middlekopf
Since I graduated in as an undergrad.
[04:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
From Cal Poly, who's now being led by my guy Tim Skipper and is going to resurrect that program.
[04:31]
John Middlekopf
And even at Cal Poly, I helped.
[04:32]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Out with the football program through what I'm doing now. Football has been a massive part of my life. I mean I played in high school. I wasn't any good, but I've loved football since I was a little kid, since I was probably seven, eight years old.
[04:44]
John Middlekopf
They say when you're eight years old. I read this in a study once. I actually my buddy guy read this in a study. He was on the podcast last week and told the story when we were.
[04:54]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
On air one day and I was like ah, that makes sense.
[04:56]
John Middlekopf
Somewhere between like 8 to 10. But starting at 8 whoever your favorite team is, whoever your favorite player is, usually shaped you as a sports fan the rest of your life. Like usually the team that you rooted for as an eight year old is a team you take the rest of your life. And When I was 8, 9, 10, my favorite team was the 49ers.
[05:13]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
They had Steve Young, Jerry Rice, and they were playing the Cowboys and going to the super bowl and winning it.
[05:17]
John Middlekopf
So that, that, that just led me.
[05:19]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To my love of football.
[05:21]
John Middlekopf
And then right there, Brett Favre comes.
[05:23]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And I was hooked for life and still am.
[05:25]
John Middlekopf
And I was just pacing up around this office watching the, the final stretch of that game and the regulation through overtime. And I think it's really, really cool when a brand that should matters, that historically has mattered, that's been down and out matters again. And I think the one thing about.
[05:43]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And I, I've told, I said this to Coward, I, I feel like I.
[05:47]
John Middlekopf
Watch more Bears football this season, start to finish, 15 or 16 games and.
[05:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Obviously the last several months you didn't miss a snap.
[05:57]
John Middlekopf
And it is that the difference of the NFL and college is obviously the pageantry. But more specifically, like in college, a lot of the big teams, their stadiums are bigger. The, the, the, I don't know, theater around the game, right? The pre game, the tailgating, the experience with the alumni is just pretty special. I always said when I worked in.
[06:20]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Radio and was around the Raiders, I.
[06:22]
John Middlekopf
Thought it was really, really cool. And Al Davis was dead by then, but Mark was there.
[06:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
They were so good with their former players.
[06:28]
John Middlekopf
I mean, their statement was once a Raider, always a Raider.
[06:31]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
It had like a collegiate feel and they were always welcome.
[06:34]
John Middlekopf
And guys from the 70s, the 80s, they were always around and it was just obviously the Raiders were bad, but the passionate fan base, they just wanted to win so bad.
[06:41]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And obviously the Bears are a lot like this.
[06:43]
John Middlekopf
They're one of our best and biggest cities in this country. I, I went there for the first time this year and obviously stayed in.
[06:51]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The, in the burbs with Coward.
[06:52]
John Middlekopf
And it was like, this place is beautiful. You know, in a different life I.
[06:56]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Could have lived there.
[06:57]
John Middlekopf
I've always said this about Philly. The thing I love the most about Philadelphia in my time there, didn't love the cold. I love like the character of the people. You know, I think their fans get a bad rap. I like that their people, I, I don't know, there was just like a defined individual. You know, they get stereotyped and there's a lot of truth to it, but I kind of resonated with those people. And I think a huge reason was.
[07:20]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The Eagles were the number one thing in their life besides like their family, right. Or their job.
[07:24]
John Middlekopf
Like, the Eagles meant so much to that city. And like, football means a lot to me. And I, I talk about football because I love it. And obviously I'm lucky. A lot of people do, right? I remember when I first got into this business and I'm like, I want to, I want to work in, I'm a radio host, I want to talk about all sports. And I'm like, I got pigeonholed as a football guy. And someone told me early on, it's like, if you're going to get pigeonholed as anything, that's the best thing to get pigeonholed as. And watching this Bears franchise not just be resurrected, but hold host these games in these frigid cold comp situations, right? In these frigid, cold conditions where there's no way you could feel your hands, your feet, you could barely breathe. Guys today were getting blasted. Like, obviously New England hosted a game again today. They had been down and out for, for what, three, four years. I mean, for 20 years of my life, I'm 40 years old. I watched that stadium host games that looked exactly like that. And the Patriot win. I have seen that game with Belichick and Brady more times than I can.
[08:27]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Count on my hands and my toes, right?
[08:29]
John Middlekopf
But with the Bears, like, I haven't and watching that city, watching that place rock and I was someone that didn't think the Caleb, Ben Johnson thing would work. It's still to me, a little weird. Like I don't think they're on the same page always. Like when they cook is when Caleb just bails them out. And I think Ben Johnson is a fantastic play caller, but so many times use the night one.
[08:52]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I'll get into this in a second about going for it, but let's just.
[08:55]
John Middlekopf
Say the play calls. I, I, I do think Sean Payton, but Ben Johnson even more. They are consumed with their way of doing things because the way that Ben did it for years in Detroit in terms of his offense made him a star. And then he comes here and he's clearly a good football coach. He's good with players, he's clearly high end, right? But like the way he wants to coach offense, Caleb's best skill by far is his playmaking ability. Honestly, he's the best playmaker right now in the NFL. I mean, that, that play he made.
[09:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To send it to overtime was, I.
[09:29]
John Middlekopf
Mean, there's probably less than 10 guys in the history of the NFL that.
[09:31]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Could make that play.
[09:32]
John Middlekopf
But part of his thing is you kind of got to let him cook, especially with his legs. Like listen, I'm not saying you treat him like Lamar Jackson, but there were times day when he ran, it's like.
[09:42]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
He'S way faster than these guys.
[09:44]
John Middlekopf
Like why not institute quarterback power? Why not get him on the move? Things that you could never even draw for Jared Goff so might not be in the playbook. They should be instituted now and they go forward on these short yarded situations. It's not working. It's like let Caleb's strength Excel here. McVeigh doesn't have that.
[10:03]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
That option was with Stafford.
[10:05]
John Middlekopf
He's 38, 39, can't move. He is, he's basically, you know, Eli.
[10:10]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Manning or Philip Rivers right now in.
[10:12]
John Middlekopf
Terms of athletic ability doesn't exist.
[10:14]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
He once was a decent athlete. Again relative to NFL players, relative to us high end athlete.
[10:20]
John Middlekopf
But relative to NFL players like Matt Stafford is now immobile, right? Doesn't move. Which is fine because he's MVP level thrower.
[10:28]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
But Caleb is an elite movement guy.
[10:32]
John Middlekopf
I've actually underestimated when he was coming out of college, how great of a foot athlete he is, how high end to speed is. But Ben Johnson, who is there had to be a meeting of the minds.
[10:42]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Once upon a time, years ago in the Detroit offensive meeting room where they got together.
[10:47]
John Middlekopf
It's like gamblers do this, you know, investors like people with investing strategies that this way is going to work and nothing else matters.
[10:55]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Typically people, you know, in some sort of like math vocation, right, where the.
[11:00]
John Middlekopf
This is what the numbers say. And no matter what, this is always going to be the case and you cannot talk. Whoever led that meeting, it might have been Ben, it might have been Dan.
[11:07]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Campbell, but they both believed it. And you cannot talk him out of it.
[11:11]
John Middlekopf
Because I'm a big believer. If I owned a team or I had any juice, like the team president or whatever, we would have a rule. If the game is 00 and it is fourth and more than. I don't even care what it is and you are in field goal range, you kick the field goal, the game is zero to zero. You can make the argument that if the game is in the first half and your opponent has less than 10 points, saying that it's not a great offensive outpouring of of points all over the place. Kick the field goal, points matter. But, and I get Ben coach in Miami, I think he played at Carolina and he coached In Detroit in a dome for a while, you were playing in conditions where no one can feel any parts of their body. Sean McVay looked like a lumberjack from Alaska. He was wearing the gloves that the dude from home alone. Usually when you see guys wearing gloves, they cover their entire hand. He's wearing the gloves so he, his fingertips are sticking out. So clearly he wanted to feel his play sheet. When does Sean McVay ever put anything.
[12:10]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Over that great head of hair?
[12:11]
John Middlekopf
And the answer is never.
[12:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
It shows you how cold it was.
[12:14]
John Middlekopf
I, I saw 70 degrees, 7 degrees on the field. Felt like 7 degrees. That is frigid temperatures. So even going into the game, I don't care that you're playing Stafford hall of Famer, Devonte, hall of Famer, Puka chance to be a Hall of Famer. They're not going to score 30 points in that weather. It's not going to happen. Nobody does. That's not the way the game's played. It's going to be. It's going to have a stretch in.
[12:37]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The middle of the game where people.
[12:38]
John Middlekopf
Are punting and it's not going anywhere. Why? Because it's cold. No one can think. It's hard to catch. It's hard to play. So Ben Johnson is obsessed with going for it always. And even tonight, a couple of his runs in short yardage, he's running up the gut, which I'm pro running the ball. And the thing I respect most about Ben Johnson is his willingness to run the ball. Though tonight he had more pass attempts than rush attempts. Now part of that is the end of the game.
[13:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
They need to throw with Caleb, so.
[13:04]
John Middlekopf
It probably would have been slightly more rush attempts Manang Guy and Swift had a combined 20, 31 attempts for looks.
[13:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Like a little over 100 yards, which again is fine.
[13:14]
John Middlekopf
So he's, he's getting 30 plus carries.
[13:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
With those two guys which operate as one back. I would say when you got two backs like that.
[13:22]
John Middlekopf
But why not use Caleb's legs? Why not run a quarterback power? Why not just run some sport of sprint option where here's your first option. If it's not there and the defender doesn't bite, fucking take off, walk to the first down I get. Ben Johnson hates quarterback runs. He despises them. I can imagine guys, you know, the Todd Monkins of the world that can do both are going, why aren't you utilizing this guy's skill set? And while Ben had a great season, he resurrected a historic franchise. Deserves his flowers for some reason. Hates McVeigh and all of his friends, LaFleur, McVeigh, LaFleur's brother. Probably hates Kevin OConnell. Cause they're friends, just in weird relation. Hates the Shanahans. Kubiax probably can't stand that tree, which I also respect.
[14:13]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I like it when people don't like other people.
[14:15]
John Middlekopf
It's like, what's your reason?
[14:16]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I don't really have one.
[14:17]
John Middlekopf
I just don't like that guy. You need some of that in sports. Can't have everyone being buddy, buddy. Need something. Like, yeah, I just can't stand that guy. Like, that's just entertaining to me. Like, we need some. Just more hatred. That used to happen a lot in sports. Happens way less, at least publicly, because we're all human beings. There are always people like, yeah, I.
[14:33]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Just don't really like that guy. Right.
[14:34]
John Middlekopf
Especially as you get older, you just. You meet people through your wife or your friends, and you just. People that you haven't known that long. Some people you just gravitate toward to. And some people you gravitate the other way. And a lot of times in pro sports because it's so corporate. There's so much money in the line. No one ever wants to admit to anything. And you know Peter schrager saying that McVeigh knows that they hate each. It's like, I, like, I want more of that. We need that. I want some hatred. So I, I like Ben Johnson mixing it up kind of like that.
[15:00]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
He's a tight ass that just hates the McVeigh tree.
[15:02]
John Middlekopf
Like, sign me up. This is entertainment, baby. Like, we don't need everyone to be friends. So Ben Johnson tonight, like, and I think throughout the season, they had all these crazy comebacks because of what Caleb just started cooking. Make some plays, kid. But throughout the. The middle of the game, he just, like, makes him play like a pocket quarterback. Obviously he can do it, but, like, I think part of his strength is just get him moving. And there were some big spots tonight where he just didn't allow him to do it. And the crazy part is, for the first time in forever, I guess last.
[15:36]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Week they had a half.
[15:37]
John Middlekopf
Their defense was awesome. Like, throughout that game. The Rams, to start the season, were.
[15:42]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Viewed as not a Super bowl contender, like one of the super bowl favorites.
[15:47]
John Middlekopf
One of the teams AFC and NFC you thought was going to win the Super Bowl. And then going into that Seattle game, especially when they were up 16 points, like, this is the team that's going to represent the nfc kind of ended weird. So people got off the scent, but.
[15:58]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Now they're 60 minutes away from going to the super bowl and the Bears.
[16:03]
John Middlekopf
Look like they're equal tonight from a physicality standpoint. Their defense was fantastic. Part of the problem for the Bears, their defense has been so shitty all season long, the Caleb's had to play like Elway or had to play like, you know, fourth and just do crazy stuff constantly. Well, he didn't really. I mean, they were good at Stafford through for 258 yards, no touchdowns. Kieran Williams had two touchdowns. And you know, the one thing that Caleb clearly, I think the meeting of the minds, right, no different than once upon a time in Detroit when they.
[16:34]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Decided we go for it all the time.
[16:36]
John Middlekopf
It's like, Coach, we're up 24 to 7 in the second half of the NFC championship.
[16:39]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Go for it. It's a coach, you don't want to.
[16:41]
John Middlekopf
Take some points here.
[16:42]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
No, go for it, coach.
[16:43]
John Middlekopf
It's 00 with three minutes to go or three minutes into the first quarter.
[16:48]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Go for it.
[16:49]
John Middlekopf
It's like there's no rhyme or reason. It's just a universal. No matter what we're going, which I.
[16:56]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I'm sorry, I'm out on which I respect.
[16:58]
John Middlekopf
People have tried different things. I remember years ago, Tomlin was like.
[17:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Always going for two.
[17:04]
John Middlekopf
I remember I might have been like five, six, seven years ago, maybe toward the end of Roethlisberger. It might have been like Rudolph's year, gap year. I. I don't remember when it happened. I just remember the Steelers had a.
[17:14]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Stretch where they just went for two constantly. They, they'd score like the first touchdown of the game. It'd be like six nothing. You go for two.
[17:19]
John Middlekopf
And he clearly got away from that. Remember Jarbaugh had a stretch where he's just always going for two. Maybe early Lamar, but like, you try things out, you pivot. Like, that's life, that's business. The Ben Johnson, Dan Campbell, there's no. This isn't trying it out. This is what we do no matter what. Well, if that's what you're going to do in Detroit, like, Jared ain't moving. There's no ad libbing there. You got the best ad libber in the league, right? Josh Allen's clearly a little banged up, not moving as well. Same thing with Lamar Jackson, this guy, in terms of just speed, power and the playmaking. Like, let him mix it up because whenever he did, that's when the positive stuff would happen and the game was there to be played. Like, if you would have told me this was going to be a low Scoring game, very physical out of been huge advantage ramps, right? They got Jared Verse Landman. This is the mentality because this is an organizational game, right? Especially less need deserves a lot of credit.
[18:15]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Like we talk a lot of coaches, but the personnel staff, building this roster.
[18:20]
John Middlekopf
When you can go as a west coast team and go to frigid conditions.
[18:24]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And set the tone physically you're a well built team because you have acquired.
[18:28]
John Middlekopf
A lot of guys who are wired the right way. Because you have to be obsessed with football and the violence which comes along.
[18:37]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
With football to play in that environment. It is not fun at all.
[18:41]
John Middlekopf
I can't even imagine being there as a fan. So the level in which the Rams look at Miami, they haven't been able to figure that out in decades. Look at CJ Stroud today. They've gone to cold weather two weeks in a row and just, I mean.
[18:57]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
No pun intended, gone the other way, they've melted, right?
[19:01]
John Middlekopf
But this is a situation where they went and the physical tone was matched. And you go, yeah, the Bears aren't a very physical team. Today it was dbs making plays, Dennis Allen dialing up blitzes. I mean Stafford was a sitting duck on multiple blitzes, had no chance. The tackling from the Bears I thought was fantastic. And they just got into a rut a little bit with the offense where they just didn't let Caleb run around. And listen, I'm a proponent and I understand over the course of the season got to play in rhythm. And listen, Caleb's accuracy is something he.
[19:34]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Has to work on.
[19:35]
John Middlekopf
For him to be a top five quarterback in the NFL, which he clearly.
[19:40]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Has the physical capabilities to do.
[19:41]
John Middlekopf
He's got to be elite at the.
[19:43]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Basic stuff, you know, an out route.
[19:46]
John Middlekopf
Any sort of short to intermediate route that the top guys from Brady to Manning to Rogers to now Allen to Lamar and Mahomes, when they're playing well, they hit with their eyes closed. You have no clue if he's going.
[20:00]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To hit that or miss that.
[20:01]
John Middlekopf
So that is an area that he.
[20:03]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Can, that he needs to if he's going to take the next step.
[20:06]
John Middlekopf
Because if he does that, he would.
[20:07]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Be a dominant player.
[20:08]
John Middlekopf
And I think Ben Johnson has to.
[20:10]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Meet him in the middle and start.
[20:11]
John Middlekopf
Instituting some just movement plays because that's.
[20:15]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
What his skill set is.
[20:16]
John Middlekopf
This is the issue with the Eagles is, you know, Petula got blamed and clearly he wasn't any good. But Jalen, they gotta, they gotta get together. Like we gotta run a little bit. You know, I heard someone say that in his best Season Jalen's he averaged 11 carries a game and this season.
[20:33]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I think he was averaging like 3.
[20:34]
John Middlekopf
Now is Caleb ever going to average.
[20:35]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
11 carries a game?
[20:36]
John Middlekopf
Of course not. But today I mean he had five. But how many of those I didn't track it are pass plays from the.
[20:45]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Pocket in which he takes off.
[20:47]
John Middlekopf
I mean I can think of three.
[20:48]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Off top of my head.
[20:50]
John Middlekopf
So I would just have a basic like quarterback power run. They run it for Josh Allen. You can treat Caleb like Josh Allen and there are some similarities to Josh early in his career. Pretty inaccurate, physically gifted and can move and Caleb's better probably at the same spot than Josh.
[21:07]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
But yeah, I just think Ben Johnson.
[21:11]
John Middlekopf
The going for it, the not using his legs when his defense, I mean for the first time, if you're a.
[21:16]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Bears fan, you're like, God, Dennis Allen.
[21:19]
John Middlekopf
Had us dialed in and then Sean McVay at the end of the game with two minutes and seven seconds left, they have a timeout and there's a two minute warning. So it's guaranteed the clock is going.
[21:33]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To stop at two minutes.
[21:35]
John Middlekopf
Why not pass the ball? You have the and you're a pass happy guy. It's like it'd be the equivalent of.
[21:42]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Ben Johnson kicking the field goal.
[21:44]
John Middlekopf
It's like that. That was the opposite of everything that I thought was what you would do would be you have, I mean a.
[21:51]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Legendary guy in his era, Devonte, who's still an elite player. What Devonte do today, he only had the two catches for 24 yards and one of the biggest catches of the game. And Puka had kind of a light game too, 556, but he definitely had two carries for six yards. One of them was a big first down.
[22:07]
John Middlekopf
Again, this is a game where you're not going to see like Justin Jefferson's. Well, I had 11 for a 210 and three touchdowns. Like that's not going to be the operation here. Even the Bears, 4 for 56, 2 for 44. It's going to be that couple catches here and there. Where do they come in, what big spots? McVeigh is in this spot and he runs the ball. It's like you got Puka, Nua and Devonte, Adams and Parkinson who's a really good tight end and hell, worst case scenario, dump it down to the back. Maybe the guy breaks a tackle. You are playing the Bears and my guy slips and you get a first down and he just kind of did. And maybe Stafford changed the play at the line, but I, I thought that was pretty head Scratching and put them in a position where then they punted and the Bears get the ball at the 50. Do you know what's crazy also about Ben Johnson is they get the ball at the 50, they drive the field, Caleb makes.
[22:57]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I. I mean, it's not a better play.
[23:01]
John Middlekopf
It's a more freakish play than the. Was that last week?
[23:06]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Yeah, the.
[23:07]
John Middlekopf
The.
[23:08]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The fourth and six against the Packers. Like, to me, that still is the best play of the year. That is just the freakier kind of.
[23:15]
John Middlekopf
There was some element of luck involved.
[23:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I mean, Durant, you can't let a guy. I'm.
[23:20]
John Middlekopf
I'm no DB coach here, but I'm pretty sure I got a couple coaching.
[23:23]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Points that I'll never forget.
[23:25]
John Middlekopf
Don't throw the ball high over the.
[23:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Middle of the field, C.J.
[23:28]
John Middlekopf
Stroud. And don't let a guy get behind.
[23:30]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You in a goal line. You know, Hail Mary type situation, right?
[23:35]
John Middlekopf
This pretty basic, like, you don't need to play for Nick Saban or Bill Belichick to get those coaching points, but.
[23:40]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Obviously the throw to be able. Backing up, you start doing the yardage. Like he threw that from the 40.
[23:45]
John Middlekopf
Comet caught that five yards deep into the end zone. And the first thing I thought of that moment, and they showed some kids, you know, probably teenagers in the stadium.
[23:55]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
That that's something you tell your friends till the day you die. Right? I just had a child. I will tell him moments that I saw. I was there when Navarro Bowman had a pick at the stick and I was standing at the sideline to win the. Or make the 49ers made the playoffs off of.
[24:08]
John Middlekopf
Like you're at some moments that you.
[24:09]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Just never forget and you tell your.
[24:11]
John Middlekopf
Friends about the rest of your lives. And that's the type moment these last couple weeks, if you're Bears fans and.
[24:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You attended the game, that is priceless. And there's nothing like being a sports fan that it's.
[24:24]
John Middlekopf
It's in a weird way, a very communal thing to do, but it's also not that fun. It's stressful.
[24:32]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
It's exhilarating.
[24:33]
John Middlekopf
Highs and lows. I mean, the high of that play to the low of them hitting the.
[24:39]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Devonte play and then them kicking the field goal.
[24:42]
John Middlekopf
But I do think the Bears being.
[24:45]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Back is one of those. That's really cool for the league.
[24:49]
John Middlekopf
And in a weird year where there were a lot of injuries and the.
[24:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Chiefs have been nowhere to be found for a couple months and, you know, the Ravens didn't make the playoffs and Lamar was MIA for a While with injuries and Burrow was out, you know.
[25:01]
John Middlekopf
The Bears in the business model really.
[25:04]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Helped pick up the slack. They did and they, they put themselves in a position to do it. And ultimately I thought they should have gone for the kill shot in the two point conversion. Like when I think Ben Johnson, I think crazy balls, crazy willingness to push.
[25:21]
John Middlekopf
The envelope and he scores touchdown. He does go for two. Now I get you're at home. I get it's the second round of the playoffs, but it's like I. The one thing he is in like specific situations typically has pretty good plays now. Maybe some of his short yardage plays from earlier in the game had been.
[25:38]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Really bad and they had been stuffed in the backfield. I, maybe he was torn. Like, to me it's like, hey, just let Caleb cook.
[25:45]
John Middlekopf
I mean, he's cooked in this moment over and over and over again. You go into overtime. There's kind of a randomness to it. There just is, right? This is not like, it's just weird because both teams touch the ball, but it's football. Like you could just have a drive where you go three and out. You could have a drive where dude fumbles. You just never know. Like, you know, this overtime, it's more equitable now because you're guaranteed a touch. But they're still that football is not.
[26:13]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
A situation that's played in that type of, you know, a sudden death moment.
[26:17]
John Middlekopf
It's not really the way the sport is. So it's like you go to that anything can happen and you're playing a team that has really good players.
[26:24]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Obviously this great offense that like in.
[26:27]
John Middlekopf
One play, Pooker Devonte could hit like a 40 yard bomb now so could you. But I, I don't know, man. I, I wonder if he could do it over like just run a play and that's where to me like run. Quarterback power. Would anyone say, have an issue, if.
[26:40]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You'Re a Bears fan, that to win.
[26:43]
John Middlekopf
The game, they just ran quarterback power.
[26:45]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
In that moment and they just had Caleb pulled the guard and just tried to hit the edge.
[26:51]
John Middlekopf
I, I don't think they would have.
[26:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I, I really don't. But he didn't do it and now he's at home.
[26:59]
John Middlekopf
You know, I was also kind of hoping he beats McVay to piggyback off the Schrager thing, that he hates La.
[27:05]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Flores and McVay in turn now hates him. And he doesn't really like McVay because.
[27:10]
John Middlekopf
He'S not some Nepo baby like him and Shanahan. I kind of like this anger in Ben Johnson seems kind of like my type guy.
[27:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
We probably wouldn't be friends because people.
[27:19]
John Middlekopf
Like that don't really talk to other people that often.
[27:22]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
But I do think that we're, you.
[27:24]
John Middlekopf
Know, there's a respect level I have for that type mindset. I was really wanting to see a.
[27:29]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Post game of what he would have said.
[27:32]
John Middlekopf
I don't even think I kind of.
[27:33]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Waited before we recorded this to see if we got a handshake between the two guys and we did not. But the Rams are off. They're an underdog on the road against Seattle. You know, I think one deficiency they have is it is very hard in the way this modern day NFL is played when your quarterback can't really move. You know, Stafford was 20 of 42 tonight, so he's under 50%. He sacked four times. There is like, you know, Cousins had this even when. And obviously I'm not comparing Stafford to cousin. Stafford's a better player.
[28:08]
John Middlekopf
But Goff has this a little bit too high as a.
[28:10]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Golf's a better athlete than Cousins.
[28:12]
John Middlekopf
When you cannot move, they just. These guys don't exist. They're just are not starting quarterbacks.
[28:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I mean look, you know, Denver should have Bo Nicks, Seattle has Sam Darnold, New England has Drake May. You saw today Caleb Williams. CJ can move, doesn't really know where he's going and not great.
[28:28]
John Middlekopf
You see a lot of these quarterbacks.
[28:29]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You know, purdy, these guys that have.
[28:33]
John Middlekopf
Mobility, he has none.
[28:35]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
So it does like you better block.
[28:37]
John Middlekopf
For them and these guys better get open.
[28:38]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And obviously their timing and precision and the routes have to be key because.
[28:44]
John Middlekopf
They kind of play an old school game.
[28:46]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And I think it's going to be really, really hard for them. Now if they beat Seattle, they will be favored in the super bowl. And I'd be kind of stunned if they didn't win it because then it would be pretty conducive for them, you know, in San Francisco, you know, in a warmer weather place. But I think that, you know, Sean McVeigh, this was a big night and this was a big season and he's had two really good teams the last couple of years. They've won a bunch of games. They just didn't really advance far in the playoffs at one point in time when it thought that he might lose this game. Like that's pretty, pretty big kick in the nuts to lose back to back.
[29:20]
John Middlekopf
Years on the road in cold weather where you're right there.
[29:24]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
It's like you have a team that's capable of not just winning that game, but clearly, you know, winning the whole thing. And you lose in the second round, right?
[29:34]
John Middlekopf
I say this all the time. Like in these other sports. The warriors won a championship one year and lost, I think by 50 to.
[29:40]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The Memphis Grizzlies in a playoff game.
[29:42]
John Middlekopf
Like individual playoff games, unless they're like six or seven or elimination games don't make or break you in football. You're on the edge of your seat living with every down. Especially a game like this that you know is. It's 10 to 10 right at halftime, no one scores in the third quarter. You're like, this is fucking nuts. This is the Bears game this year have just been theater.
[30:06]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The Rams have played in some great games that. The game against Seattle was awesome.
[30:10]
John Middlekopf
The game earlier this year against the 49ers against M. Jones was awesome. So these teams, there's something, you know, the characters with their coaches that.
[30:20]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
That was. Doesn't get any better as a consumer.
[30:23]
John Middlekopf
That, that's, that's as entertaining. I don't need. I've said this forever. Back in the day when Mahomes hit.
[30:31]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The scene and he played golf in.
[30:33]
John Middlekopf
That game, it was supposed to be.
[30:34]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
In Mexico City, but like, I don't know, the cartel sold the grass or something. So they had to play in the Rose bowl because the Rams that year, remember, they hadn't built so far yet. So they were playing at the Rose bowl and the final score was like 58 to 54.
[30:48]
John Middlekopf
It's like, it was fun, but I.
[30:50]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Don'T like football like that. I'm not into watching, you know, Big 12 football. Honestly, that's the conference I watched the least. Might have changed a little bit with the additions of some of their schools. Now Arizona State, Utah, byu, Texas Tech is more of a defensive team, but historically they were always just a bunch of points, no defense.
[31:07]
John Middlekopf
Like I don't, I don't enjoy that.
[31:09]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I enjoyed this game tonight.
[31:12]
John Middlekopf
The physicality of it, how important every first down was, how important every decision was.
[31:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Like you can't afford to, you know, make a poor decision. And it was, it was a good, just entertaining kind of throwback game with just some. Obviously Caleb's pass, Will, he's had, I would say the craziest stretch of last minute passes in like, I don't know the history of the NFL. I've never seen anything like it. I never have. And for Bears fans that are, I.
[31:45]
John Middlekopf
Know so many people just living here.
[31:47]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
In Arizona that are from that general region that I've gotten to know people I see at the gym that just come up to me and just start.
[31:53]
John Middlekopf
Wearing me out because they love it. This season has meant so much to them.
[31:58]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The how much fun the ride of that year was. It doesn't get any better. So it's why we love it's why we love sports.
[32:05]
John Middlekopf
Because even early on you get a little optimistic.
[32:08]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Then you look if I would have told you you're hosting a game in the second round of the playoffs against McVay and Stafford and you are going to be in position to win the game in overtime. You're going to get the ball and have a chance to win the game. Are you serious? Sign me the you know what up for that. So grass the Bears on a hell of a season and Sean McVeigh off to the NFC Championship game to, you know, a couple wins away from trying to get super bowl number two. We'll dive into a lot of the games coming up. This this throughout the week for this weekend.
[32:48]
John Middlekopf
Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. With Miami making the Natty you Hard.
[32:56]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Rock Stadium will be rocking and if.
[32:58]
John Middlekopf
You'Re going to the game, Hard Rock Bet is giving you $10 bonus to get in on the action. So if you're watching the game out in Miami, head to the Hard Rock Cafe, Miami Duffy's North Miami Beach American Social Miami lot going on out there and Hard Rock bet is dropping $10 bonus bets there too. You can turn that free $10 bonus bet into a win by placing a same game parlay. So if you're late to kick off, don't worry. Hard Rock Bet has live in game betting so you're never too late to the action. Find a winner Live bet between snaps here's the thing. Even if you're watching the game at home, there's still no better place to bet on the Natty than the Hard Rock Bet. And because it's in Florida, so they're going crazy with promos for this one. So if you haven't tried your first bet yet, you know there's still time for 150 in bonus bets. If you win, just place a five dollar bet and if it hits you not only get your winnings but you also get 150 in extra bets. That's Hard Rock Bet. Download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Payable and bonus bets. Not a cash offer Offered by Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida offered by Seminole hard Rock Digital LLC in all other states you must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee and Virginia. To play terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida? Call 1-833-PLAY-WISE in Indiana. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee.
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[36:32]
John Middlekopf
Let's get into the other game.
[36:35]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I I think big picture on Vrabel and the Pats.
[36:39]
John Middlekopf
Remember a couple years ago when Belichick's last year offensively they had Patricia and.
[36:46]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Like Joe Judge were running the offense and it did not go well but.
[36:49]
John Middlekopf
Their defense actually was pretty good. And so the next year when Gerard.
[36:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Mayo took over and their defense fell.
[36:55]
John Middlekopf
Apart, remember Belichick was had like 17 shows on the Internet and was taking some shots. Like our, our defense was pretty good last year. This is kind of on you.
[37:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Very bitter but it just reality of curmudgeon Bill.
[37:06]
John Middlekopf
But he wasn't wrong. Like they did have some good defensive players. And then they get Drake May, Josh.
[37:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
McDaniels comes back and they've created an offense.
[37:15]
John Middlekopf
There is a grittiness and a toughness to the Patriots like this team that has some similarities to a lot of.
[37:22]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Those Bill and Brady teams that when.
[37:24]
John Middlekopf
You watch them like the group is.
[37:28]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Better than the individual some of their parts. Now obviously Drake may has a chance to be, I don't know, like one of the best players in the league, right? Is, is excellent. Christian Gonzalez when he's healthy is an elite corner.
[37:39]
John Middlekopf
But like they got a lot of guys. A lot of people can add digs. You know, a lot of people passed on Booty from the draft. Who's Booty? I think his name is.
[37:50]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I call him Booty because like New Orleans, he is making incredible plays down the stretch of the season.
[37:56]
John Middlekopf
But pretty sure he wasn't a first round pick. Like they got a lot of dudes on that team that could have been had by a lot of people.
[38:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Now they, they paid quote unquote. Some people say overpaid Milton Williams, they.
[38:06]
John Middlekopf
Went pretty aggressive in free agency. But there is like a cohesion to that group and a toughness that clearly starts with Mike. And I think there are some similarities.
[38:16]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
With Mike and Bill. Not physically. Mike looks like, you know, former NFL player. Bill looks like a guy you'd see at the deli on Tuesday. But the way they fundamentally think about football, the toughness, the details, the just like unfazed by anything and I. The Patriots have that.
[38:34]
John Middlekopf
And to go from back to back.
[38:35]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Seasons after the run, they had to be drafting third overall. They were got Drake May, then fourth overall.
[38:43]
John Middlekopf
Like I, you know, should Will Campbell be playing guard? You could also make the argument like Will Anderson makes everyone look like that.
[38:50]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Will Anderson was eating his lunch today.
[38:53]
John Middlekopf
Will Anderson. It might have been hard for Orlando.
[38:55]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Pace to slow that guy down today.
[38:57]
John Middlekopf
Will Anderson looked elite. But what the Patriots do like quarterback.
[39:00]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Can run, they fumble the ball a couple times and obviously you know the ball was on the ground constantly.
[39:06]
John Middlekopf
But there's just an impressive kind of.
[39:08]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Cohesion to that team.
[39:10]
John Middlekopf
Now do I think this is some loaded super great talented group?
[39:16]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I don't.
[39:17]
John Middlekopf
But when you got Mike Vrabel who.
[39:19]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Is a high end NFL coach, you.
[39:21]
John Middlekopf
Have Josh McDaniels who's probably the best offensive coordinator in the league who's not.
[39:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
A head coach and because of how weird it's been in his career, will never be a head coach again. They're a motherfucker. And obviously with Bo Nix being injured, they are favored on the road in Denver. So like my initial thought is I have a hard time seeing a backup quarterback beat this team because when you're the backup quarterback, you don't get any reps in practice. You obviously don't play any of the games in the regular season because their young starter gets them all. You're just going to show up in.
[39:52]
John Middlekopf
The AFC championship game.
[39:54]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Obviously it's easier at home, but still, I mean, against a Mike variable team, I have a hard time seeing that. I really do. Now he's not playing the Houston Texans. Like, I wouldn't say Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter are coming off the edge.
[40:07]
John Middlekopf
For the Patriots, but there is just. I don't even know how to say it.
[40:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
They just feel like very fundamentally fundamental, tough and kind of boring. You know, there's a, there's an element to that. So I think New England resurrecting this franchise is just pretty remarkable.
[40:24]
John Middlekopf
Again they had back to back draft.
[40:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Picks in the top five and now they're going to the AFC championship as a favorite.
[40:31]
John Middlekopf
Now obviously if Bo Nicks hadn't been.
[40:32]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Injured, would Denver be favored by one or two points?
[40:35]
John Middlekopf
Like they would be less than a.
[40:37]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Field goal underdog on the road in the AFC championship. That's how fast he flipped it around.
[40:42]
John Middlekopf
They had the easy schedule to benefit.
[40:44]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Them and they took advantage of it.
[40:45]
John Middlekopf
They also beat the Bills once. Right.
[40:47]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
So today was impressive.
[40:50]
John Middlekopf
And to have your quarterback under that.
[40:52]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Much duress from those two just dominant players.
[40:57]
John Middlekopf
I remember when Casario signed Daniel Hunter and he gave.
[41:03]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
It's pretty rare, right? It was almost like a baseball contract. Well, I saw Kyle Tucker, the, the, the Dodgers gave him four years, 240 million. Like every penny's guaranteed. Someone else who just signed with the Cubs. Oh, is it Bregman? Like all these guys just get like 3, 4, 5 year deals with these opt outs.
[41:20]
John Middlekopf
Huge guarantees, huge yearly averages. They gave Daniel Hunter two years.
[41:25]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I think it was 49 million and guaranteed 48.
[41:27]
John Middlekopf
Like that's just a throwback con.
[41:28]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Like you just don't see those type contracts. He's worth every penny.
[41:32]
John Middlekopf
And those two edges were all over everyone today.
[41:36]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And Will Campbell was fighting for his life. But they figured out a way and a huge reason was is the other quarterback on the other side was A disaster. Like, let's face it, the story of the game was, well, it was twofold to me for Houston. Their defense is pretty incredible. They had the best defense in the league. Like Seattle's defense is elite. I think Houston's is better. I think it doesn't get any better in Houston's defense. The amount of times that they were able to get off the field after C.J.
[42:06]
John Middlekopf
Stroud literally tried to hand the game.
[42:08]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To Vrabel and Drake, maybe they had.
[42:10]
John Middlekopf
A stretch in the second quarter where.
[42:11]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
They went interception, one play, interception, four plays.
[42:15]
John Middlekopf
So they ran five plays, two interceptions, punt, that was seven plays and then an interception. He threw three interceptions in a stretch.
[42:24]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Of like 10 plays.
[42:27]
John Middlekopf
He was the one reason I like.
[42:31]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The Houston Texans tonight in this game was love their defense. Anyone with a brain does.
[42:37]
John Middlekopf
I thought their quarterback after the game he just had against Pittsburgh and I.
[42:41]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Had a buddy on the Texans say.
[42:43]
John Middlekopf
You know what, obviously the bad plays were really bad, but he made a.
[42:47]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Lot of high end plays in that.
[42:49]
John Middlekopf
Game, which were true. So I thought, listen, you get in the lab, you take a deep breath, we're going to play, we're not going to play hero ball. You're not Aaron Rodgers, you're not Caleb Williams, even though you tried to son him last year and tell him advice.
[43:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Which it's kind of funny now looking back.
[43:05]
John Middlekopf
But he did it because CJ's a good guy. CJ means well, people like him, but he also has this thing in the way he plays.
[43:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And Aikman was crushing him today is.
[43:14]
John Middlekopf
He'S like trying to justify he was.
[43:16]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The number two overall pick and make.
[43:18]
John Middlekopf
Plays like a guy that's gonna make.
[43:20]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
$200 million one day.
[43:22]
John Middlekopf
I'm gonna be a Josh Allen, I'm gonna be a Mahomes, I'm gonna be a Lamar, I'm gonna be a Joe Burrow, I'm gonna be an elite. It's like, bro, we don't need that right now. Maybe one day. Right now we need you to play like Trent Dilfer. We need you to play like Brad Johnson. We need you to play like Jimmy Garoppolo in 2019. Manage the game. And the plays he made today were. I, I mean, I'm not one to.
[43:46]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Act like this is easy. I, I worked in the NFL. I've been in these NFL games.
[43:50]
John Middlekopf
I'm on the sideline. I know these coaches and personnel people. It is really hard to do this. And I've said forever. It is way, it's why I'm way more critical of front office and coaching that profession than I am the players.
[44:05]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Because it's way easier to become one of those than is a player.
[44:08]
John Middlekopf
It is way more difficult to ever find yourself strapping up in an NFL game, let alone the second round of the playoffs. C.J.
[44:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Stroud'S a very talented player.
[44:19]
John Middlekopf
He's a touch thrower, though. CJ Stroud's comp is really much closer to Jared Goff. That's his style of game.
[44:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
He is not some power player like Caleb or Josh.
[44:29]
John Middlekopf
He is Jared Goff, touch passer. Well, what happens in the freezing cold?
[44:35]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Can't feel your hands. Why did Jared Goff suck for a long time in the cold? He's gotten better as he's got older is his passes.
[44:42]
John Middlekopf
He had no touch on the ball. He had no clue where it was going. And you watch CJ today, he could not control the ball. Even the touchdown he threw to Kirk and in the corner of the end zone, Kirk, who's kind of an underrated NFL player, made a great play, kind of boxing out the DB and catching the ball, it was behind him. So you're watching C.J. just his accuracy in that environment is not good. Is actually terrible. And then he, you know, I would say makes it even worse. Like, magnifies the issues by trying to play outside of his own skill set. He's, like, running around doing crazy shit that is just leading to him getting sacked and throw picks in the air, balls flying up 25ft. It's like, what is going on? And do you know what's really rare in the NBA?
[45:37]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You turn on. I mean, I don't consume any of these, but we all see the clips. These former players will talk shit about everybody. It's actually one thing I kind of respect is like, I think part of the reason NBA podcasts with the former.
[45:50]
John Middlekopf
Players have had a lot of success, that they're.
[45:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You turn on a mic there, they will say whatever, Which I respect because.
[45:57]
John Middlekopf
A lot of former players, like, just kind of beat around the bush and stuff.
[46:00]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You get some of these guys that they will just be taking shots at.
[46:03]
John Middlekopf
Everybody yet in the NFL, I, you know, J.J. watts said this. Tom Brady said this. Peyton Manning didn't want anything more than the Manning cast because, like, I'm not. I don't want to be critical. I know how hard this is, which I. Which I do understand. And when they came to halftime and they went right to Kelsey, who's a pretty uplifting, positive guy, was like, I.
[46:21]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Think you gotta Benjamin.
[46:23]
John Middlekopf
And I think everyone kind of looked.
[46:24]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Around like, hell yeah.
[46:25]
John Middlekopf
You don't have a choice. And d', Ameco, former player, you know.
[46:29]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Who'S a, also a positive guy, which is kind of rare because he's like this defensive middle linebacker, ass kicker. But d' Amico's energy is very positive.
[46:38]
John Middlekopf
Had to have the thought.
[46:39]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
But also like, hey, he's just going.
[46:40]
John Middlekopf
To be my quarterback next year.
[46:42]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
We can't ruin his confidence.
[46:44]
John Middlekopf
In the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, probably the 2000s, a player of CJ stature, meaning, hasn't really accomplished that much. Not like he's some all Pro.
[46:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
It's not like he's, you know, one.
[46:54]
John Middlekopf
Of the best players in the league. He's, he's not on a contract extension yet. He's on his rookie contract.
[46:59]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Would have got the hook at halftime.
[47:01]
John Middlekopf
Basically just like yanking, you know, your.
[47:03]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Number one starter out of a playoff. He don't have it.
[47:06]
John Middlekopf
And listen, we all go through that. I, I thought Saturday night after not.
[47:10]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Sleeping at all, if you listen to.
[47:11]
John Middlekopf
My podcast, I, I thought I was.
[47:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Throwing about 60 miles an hour. I didn't have much. I was like, God, that was a terrible podcast.
[47:17]
John Middlekopf
It happens to us all. No matter what you do, it is inevitable. He did not have a good game. His confidence was lost and he was a gigantic liability. And I do think, and Casario is very involved, I do think they made.
[47:32]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
A mistake by leaving him in there.
[47:34]
John Middlekopf
Because I don't think, and maybe they know him better, that he'll lose his confidence. You won't be able to get him.
[47:38]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Back, but you had to throw a curveball.
[47:39]
John Middlekopf
You could not look Will Anderson, Daniel Hunter Petrie, all those guys in the face and saying we're doing, giving ourselves.
[47:47]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The best chance to win with throwing him out there.
[47:48]
John Middlekopf
He couldn't play and he, and right now Coward asked me this tonight, would you give C.J. stroud an extension? Like, to me it's not even a con. I wouldn't even have the conversation if I'm Kissario, if his agent called me. It's like, this is not, this is not on the table. Like, well, you're going to give one to Will Anderson? Well, yeah, he's one of the best fucking dudes in the league. Your quarterback just had a two game stretch in the playoffs with like 27 interceptions and fumbles. So like one I need. In this conference, we're lucky. In our division, we play in a dome. The Colts play in a dome, The Jags play in 97 degrees. And the Titans are irrelevant and suck. But in this conference The Chiefs, the Bills, the Patriots, the Ravens, the Steelers. I mean there are a lot of teams in this conf. Denver that play in cold weather. Like cold, like freezing cold frigid weather. If anyone with the pulse ever resurrects the jets like this is a place where you're gonna go on the road in cold ass games. How many times over the course, you know, the last 25 years. Mahomes, Brady, Manning outside. I need you to play well in the cold. He can't. And to me like you're not playing well enough in the regular season for.
[49:04]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Me to overlook that.
[49:05]
John Middlekopf
So we got to have a massive jump next year and part of it's on us, right? We have a massive off season to.
[49:14]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Improve our offensive line.
[49:16]
John Middlekopf
We have our own first round pick.
[49:18]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
We have the Washington Commanders first or.
[49:20]
John Middlekopf
Second round pick which I think is.
[49:21]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
In the top 40.
[49:23]
John Middlekopf
We got to hit on some players, free agency, we got to figure out how to keep Daniel Hunter around here.
[49:27]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
But we need you to like you're.
[49:31]
John Middlekopf
Not Josh Allen, stop trying to do that. You need to become more Jared Goff and play smart. And I think C.J. thinks he's like this ad libber and.
[49:42]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You saw tonight it was like or.
[49:44]
John Middlekopf
Earlier today was a nightmare. I mean that's, let's face it, a guy who was drafted high, he's been a multi year starter. That's as bad of a game as.
[49:52]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You can ever see.
[49:53]
John Middlekopf
It doesn't get any worse. And I think one downfall of Dico.
[49:58]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Is I don't think that would have flown with Rabel. I think he's yanked historically all the defensive coaches. He's out of the game.
[50:05]
John Middlekopf
They, they just wouldn't have tolerated it because it's not okay. Like this is my defense is. I mean they looked incredible. I actually with every interception that happened and they would force them a punt, I mean interception, punt, interception, punt. I'm just reading those are CJ interceptions. And then the defense like it's forcing three and outs and Drake May is just, it's like getting destroyed from all angles. But it's a tough one.
[50:38]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And I, I think part of that.
[50:40]
John Middlekopf
Is like obviously your skill set, you're not going to be Tom Brady or.
[50:44]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Ben Roethlisberger thrown through the wind.
[50:46]
John Middlekopf
No one expects you to do that. But to be a high level quarterback.
[50:50]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
In the NFL, to be a guy.
[50:52]
John Middlekopf
Like our organization is too well run.
[50:54]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
We're not going to give a Kyler Murray contract.
[50:57]
John Middlekopf
We'd rather get thrown off a bridge.
[50:58]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Than give it to a contract that's.
[51:00]
John Middlekopf
Not going to happen here. We're not getting rid of you. But next year is a massive, massive.
[51:05]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Year in his career. It really is. And honestly could define. Is he one of those guys getting.
[51:10]
John Middlekopf
A huge contract or does his career kind of derail? Because let's face it, if it doesn't go well and he has some more moments in these colder weathers, even the shitty teams in the cold weather, how could you pull the trigger and sign him if he one day became available, if he, if he can't play in those conditions? So I've always been a fan. Everything I've heard about him, like I become fans of people when I find.
[51:33]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Out about them off the field and kind of what they stand for.
[51:36]
John Middlekopf
And like I, I, I like everything.
[51:38]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I've heard from my people that know.
[51:41]
John Middlekopf
But like there is also a skill set that comes along with it. And you saw tonight, Stafford and Caleb playing these conditions. Then you saw cj, you're like, what is going on? California kid playing in the dome.
[51:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I saw one of the basketball Kevin o' Connor used to work for Simmons.
[51:58]
John Middlekopf
Tweet out some quotes he have about.
[52:00]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The things he likes the least about football. And one of them was playing in the cold. Like, you can't have that mindset. Like, what's Will Anderson from Bama, went.
[52:10]
John Middlekopf
To Bama, plays in a dome. You think that guy gives a shit?
[52:14]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
He'd play in Iceland, he'd play in Alaska. He'd play and didn't wouldn't matter.
[52:18]
John Middlekopf
He'd play in the parking lot, he'd play on, you know, a turf field rocks. It doesn't matter. And I think anytime that's kind of in your head, you kind of play.
[52:27]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Like that and you could see it happening. So just a disaster.
[52:31]
John Middlekopf
And listen, maybe I'm more excited about.
[52:33]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
This because I had money on the.
[52:35]
John Middlekopf
Texans, but even as I'm watching the game, it's like 21 to 16. Like they're, you're right there. It's there to be won.
[52:43]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And it wasn't because he was that bad. He was. I just don't remember anything quite like that. Not when a defense has been playing that good. Really not when a defense has been playing that good. And I think it also gets back to this unwillingness to pull guys. Now, I saw Davis Mills bring them.
[52:59]
John Middlekopf
Back for in a 2910 game against Jacksonville. How many games?
[53:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Jacksonville, 13, 14.
[53:04]
John Middlekopf
They were one of the best teams in the league. He brought them right down. Now I get, if I remember correctly.
[53:09]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I think that game was indoors but still, yeah, they won 13 games, so just. That one's tough, man. That, that one's, that one's really tough.
[53:18]
John Middlekopf
So congrats to the Patriots, congrats to the Rams.
[53:21]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I'll always, you know, a really big deal when you, when obviously you win this round. You're 60 minutes away from being in the super bowl, which about as cool as it gets, doesn't get any better.
[53:34]
John Middlekopf
We'll get into all the different angles.
[53:35]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Of this game and some big picture thoughts.
[53:51]
John Middlekopf
The other big topic that I wanted.
[53:52]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To touch on that I, I haven't yet was John Harbaugh.
[53:56]
John Middlekopf
I do just want to say that the amount. There has never been a time and.
[54:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
This is not going to last forever. I've been saying this for a long time about football. It's not going to be this powerhouse, best business in America or one of them for the next 40 years, for the next hundred years.
[54:14]
John Middlekopf
It's not.
[54:14]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
That's not the way the world works, right? Things ebb and flow. Things are on top and then they're not. There are societal shifts. I mean there's one going on right now with alcohol. Less people drink than ever. That impacts like if you. Alcohol sales used to be recession proof, now they're not. And now they get impacted dramatically. Younger people value their health now more than ever. That impacts certain industries more than others. Football will one day, I don't know when, I'm not making a prediction that it's anytime soon and I'm not rooting for this at all. I hope until I'm dead. And if my young son loves football, I hope he gets to live through the golden ages as well. But that's not the way things happen typically, right? So one day football will come down and the money will change. But right now the money is a flowing.
[55:08]
John Middlekopf
And John Harbaugh just signed a contract, you know these college coaches like Signetti.
[55:13]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Or Lane that signed for 90, $100 million.
[55:16]
John Middlekopf
It's typically like nine or 10 years.
[55:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Or seven or eight years. Like it's long term contracts.
[55:20]
John Middlekopf
Lincoln riley was like 10 for 105 or whatever. John Harbaugh signed a $100 million contract, five year deal. I mean if this goes well in a couple years he will get an extension. John Harbaugh is probably what, what do you think he's been making the last five years? 15, $17 million. John Harbaugh just in the last like from 2020 to 2030 will have banked money like he's a Fortune 500 CEO. He's a man that Shows up to the office with a whistle around his neck. So it is a great time to.
[55:49]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Be a good football coach or a great football coach.
[55:52]
John Middlekopf
You are paid incredible amounts of money in John Harbaugh for the Giants. Made a ton of sense.
[56:00]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I've only been to New York a handful of times. Obviously I lived in the general region when I lived in Philly. But I think it's pretty clear as just a sports fan, the best coaches in my lifetime in New York have been.
[56:17]
John Middlekopf
Father like figures. Is almost an understatement.
[56:19]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
That they had.
[56:22]
John Middlekopf
There was just a swag and a.
[56:24]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Boss like feel to them. Bill Parcells, Tom Coughlin, Pat Riley coaching the Knicks, Joe Torrey coaching the Yankees.
[56:32]
John Middlekopf
You just knew that guy was a one. That guy ain't a two or a three.
[56:37]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
He's a one. He's the leader of this operation.
[56:40]
John Middlekopf
And I think the Giants have gone through a stretch where they've had a.
[56:43]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Lot of twos and threes.
[56:44]
John Middlekopf
And I've said this forever about the NFL. If you're going to be a two or three, the NFL is a great industry to be one in because it.
[56:50]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Pays millions of dollars. Now, if you're a great one in the NFL, John Harbaugh, you get $100 million.
[56:56]
John Middlekopf
But John's proven that his family is.
[56:58]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
A family of alphas. Jack Harbaugh, John Harbaugh, Jim Harbaugh, those guys are badasses.
[57:05]
John Middlekopf
Like, I will spend a lot of time around Jim. For a couple years when he was.
[57:08]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Coaching the Niners going to those practices, there was a swag and a feel to him when he walked in a room. When you just saw them. I remember one time at the combine, I was a young scout and we had a box in Indianapolis and we're all just like in the box. And like, I don't know if I.
[57:24]
John Middlekopf
Got sent on a sandwich run or someone got sent.
[57:26]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
There was like this place that either Howie or Andy loved in Indianapolis. We ordered like 25 of the sandwiches and we come back in with the bags and sandwiches to watch. Like, you know, some guys run routes on air or something. And all of a sudden I'm kind of by the door and I see John and Jim turn in the room and you.
[57:43]
John Middlekopf
I just.
[57:44]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And this is 2010 or 11. And I see Coach Reed light up and they all hug and it was just. There's something about like, these guys were.
[57:52]
John Middlekopf
Born to be head coaches. Bill Parcells was put on this earth.
[57:57]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To be the boss.
[57:58]
John Middlekopf
Pat Riley was put on this earth.
[58:00]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To be the boss.
[58:02]
John Middlekopf
Not like The VP of sales, not an assistant coach to be the head honcho. And the Giants have been desperate to hire someone who can be the head.
[58:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Honcho, who can be the leader of the pack. And Jon fills that role.
[58:19]
John Middlekopf
Now, my one concern is the Giants. Kind of like the packers are a throwback organization. They have had an organizational hierarchy that had gone through the general manager, which is kind of rare. Like, John Schneider has that in Seattle. Like, Mike Vrabel ain't answering anybody. Sean Payton ain't answering anybody. Obviously, Les is a powerful guy, but Sean probably makes 3X's salary. Like, if Sean wants something, he's getting it. You know, typically these coach like Kyle Shanahan, if he wants something, he's getting it. Like lead Ben Johnson at this point in time, like, you think he's. If he wants a player in this upcoming draft, he's getting, getting told no. You think after that year, what he just did with the Bears, fucking high on crack. I mean, so typically coaches have a lot of juice. John Harbaugh has been very lucky. He got to work with Ozzie Newsom, who is going to go down right there with Ron Wolf, Al Davis, short list of individuals. John Schneider, maybe one day. Howie, I mean, it's the great GMs in the history of this sport. And then to Eric Dacosta, who had basically understudied under Ozzy. And their personnel department is elite. So I was told this about d'. Amico. You know, the best part about d' Amigo's job, obviously he's a great coach and knows what he's doing. He doesn't have to worry about players. Texas personnel department's really good. Like Casario can handle that. It helps. You know what? Mike McDonald doesn't need to worry about the roster. You know who's got that handled? John Schneider, John Harbaugh now. And listen, I respect it. He's just telling Ian O Connor everything.
[59:55]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
He's like, hey, I just.
[59:56]
John Middlekopf
I had a steak, two potatoes, Mac and cheese, and a glass of Pino 1987 from Napa tonight, meeting with the Maras and three other people that I.
[60:09]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Don'T even know their name. And he's just like tweeting it out. So he was just telling it all.
[60:13]
John Middlekopf
He's just quoting, like, I answer to the owner.
[60:16]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
He. He put that out.
[60:17]
John Middlekopf
Not in a statement, like through the team. He put that. His own statement that he told the. The reporter, which I respect. And John has all the leverage in the situation. The Giants need him. He does not need them. He would get jobs. If you wanted to take a year off, travel with his family, he would have teams lined up for him next year. He is in high demand, right?
[60:37]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The Titans were ready to throw $100 million at him. Now I wouldn't take the Titans job and I would love to live in Nashville, but if I was a football coach, wouldn't touch that job with a 20 football. I think it's very risky. It's got a lot of issues going on.
[60:49]
John Middlekopf
The Giants have had issues, but it's still the New York Giants. It's one of the most prestigious organizations.
[60:54]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
In all of sports. When it's right, you have all of.
[60:56]
John Middlekopf
New York, you're a massive brand and you also get in at a great time. It's like when Saban took over Alabama. If you do resurrect this, you get extra credit because they've been so shitty. So when I saw that John Harbaugh won't answer to Joe Shane, I don't blame him. If I was John Harbaugh, in what world, like I get the gm, Jerry.
[61:15]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Reese or God, I forget the guy's name. Who, what's the guy's name?
[61:20]
John Middlekopf
Ernie, of coursey. Like you answer to the gm, that's not the way it's going to work here. I'm not answering to that guy because he's Joe Shane. So if I'm the Giants and I get you have this personal relationship with them, I'm sorry you have to fire Joe Shane. This is not an apples to apples situation. But I remember when Mark Davis hired John Gruden, gave him 10 years, $100 million, which at the time was insane. But he had to do it because Tampa was offering a ton of money and he really wanted John Gruden. He said, john, I'm giving you $100 million.
[61:52]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You're in charge. But I really like Reggie McKenzie. Will you just work with Reggie McKenzie, John?
[62:00]
John Middlekopf
Because he just got $100 million, had to suck it up. It was like, yeah, I'll give him a try. Reggie McKenzie was never going to survive with John Gruden. And he didn't. He was fired a year later.
[62:10]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And then obviously I like Mike Mayock, but that was give at the time, pretty risky hire and kind of backfired.
[62:16]
John Middlekopf
But why wouldn't the Giants go, hey.
[62:19]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Listen John, we understand that you don't want to answer to Joe Shane again, don't blame you.
[62:25]
John Middlekopf
In what world would John Harbaugh take.
[62:29]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Orders about the draft or personnel people to them.
[62:32]
John Middlekopf
But we're also not that comfortable paying a coach $100 million and then just giving him the ability to pick all the players and make all the personnel decisions when you've never done that. And if anything, the most successful coach post Belichick. Andy Reid said when he left the Eagles and got his new job, the number one thing he said is like.
[62:51]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I don't want to do this job anymore.
[62:53]
John Middlekopf
It's.
[62:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
It's.
[62:54]
John Middlekopf
I want someone to help me out that I know. And that's where I think. I don't know exactly. Obviously, I don't think John Harbaugh wants.
[63:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
To be the bad guy and go in there and fire him.
[63:05]
John Middlekopf
But I also think the Giants then need to step up and just, hey.
[63:08]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Put it on us.
[63:08]
John Middlekopf
I saw this clip on Instagram that this dad was doing an interview, must.
[63:13]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Have been a finance guy.
[63:14]
John Middlekopf
And he puts in the will for his kids that it is mandatory for them to get a prenup when they get married or they will be kicked out of the will. And he said, part of it is when you get married, especially, you know.
[63:32]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
My kids, if they were going to.
[63:33]
John Middlekopf
Get married young, you're not always thinking straight.
[63:36]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And if we have a family business.
[63:38]
John Middlekopf
You get into this position where you. Even if you know you.
[63:41]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You don't regret it later on, there.
[63:43]
John Middlekopf
Is a pretty big risk. But also, I don't want to make.
[63:46]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
You the bad guy in the relationship.
[63:48]
John Middlekopf
So you can look at your significant.
[63:49]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Other and be like, my f. My father's the bad guy.
[63:52]
John Middlekopf
Put it.
[63:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And the dad was like, put it on me. I don't give a say. I make it. If we're going to work for this.
[63:58]
John Middlekopf
Company, the prenup is mandatory for this operation to keep going. It's like, that's kind of genius because think how many people have had this conversation over the years.
[64:07]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I don't have a prenup. But then again, I didn't have much to bring to the table in the first place. She technically had more assets than me.
[64:13]
John Middlekopf
But I kind of understood. I was like, that's kind of genius. It takes the pressure off the person. The Giants could have easily done that. That would have been the number one thing. Chris and I don't know exactly John's.
[64:22]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Situation of the cancer and fighting it.
[64:24]
John Middlekopf
Is, but, John, what do you need? We know you don't want to come.
[64:28]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Out and Diana Rossini and Albert Breer saying, like, John Harbaugh demanded Joe Shane.
[64:33]
John Middlekopf
Because I think he respects the profession.
[64:35]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And doesn't want, like that blood on his hands.
[64:37]
John Middlekopf
The giant should have got the hint and figured it out and done it for him that this relationship. And who knows, maybe that happens over the course of the next week, but if it doesn't, I think that's pretty.
[64:49]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Crazy because clearly Jon wanted no part.
[64:52]
John Middlekopf
Of the previous hierarchy.
[64:54]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And answering to Joe, but to force.
[64:56]
John Middlekopf
Him then to work with him is just so stupid because you basically have Joe, who has a year to be.
[65:04]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
The greatest yes man of all time.
[65:05]
John Middlekopf
And do everything he can to prove.
[65:08]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
His worth to this guy, which might.
[65:10]
John Middlekopf
Never have mattered because you were never.
[65:12]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Going to be his guy.
[65:13]
John Middlekopf
And why didn't you just hire that guy right now? Now, you could argue that every once.
[65:17]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
In a while it happens.
[65:17]
John Middlekopf
It happened with Sean Payton and George.
[65:19]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Payton in, in Denver.
[65:23]
John Middlekopf
Maybe it happens with Elliott Wolf and Vrabel. Now the difference is Elliot Wolf has.
[65:28]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Worked in the NFL for like 25 years. He's Ron Wolf's son.
[65:32]
John Middlekopf
Pretty highly regarded. I don't know him personally.
[65:35]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Met him a couple times. Never heard a bad thing. I. I think it's safe to say he knows what he's doing.
[65:40]
John Middlekopf
Patton was.
[65:41]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Or Payton. I always get it. Me messed up. I used to call him General Payton, but. Or Patton. I think it might be George Payton, which would be like Sean Payton, but whatever. I, I'm sorry to screw up your name. We. I just talk about Sean Payton so much. If you're listening, which I hope you are, because that'd be pretty cool. I do believe that it's possible to figure it out.
[66:00]
John Middlekopf
But he was another guy that was interviewing for GM jobs forever.
[66:03]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And I, I think the Giants should be really excited.
[66:07]
John Middlekopf
And if you're a Giants fan, this.
[66:09]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Is a massive moment because it brings back credibility for a franchise that was kind of dead and this situation is the only thing that could derail it.
[66:17]
John Middlekopf
It's just being weird and kind of a waste of everyone's energy of trying to force feed something that doesn't need to be force fed.
[66:25]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
So that to me is something I was going to keep an eye on.
[66:28]
John Middlekopf
I was going to talk about this.
[66:30]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Other thing, but we've been going for a while, basically. Would you rather lose? Like the Niners of the Bills? And my theory was if you're the.
[66:39]
John Middlekopf
Chiefs or the Brady Patriots and you've.
[66:41]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Won a lot of Super Bowls, you would rather always lose in excruciating. Excruciating factor fashion. Right. Like the Bears tonight.
[66:49]
John Middlekopf
Like, and the Bears are you. If you've sucked forever, you want to.
[66:53]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Be in the game. You want to play a great game even if you lose.
[66:56]
John Middlekopf
But when you haven't won. Losing in the worst possible fashion.
[67:02]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
I just, I feel for Bill's fans. I really do. That just, I was thinking about that today. Like, God, that sucks.
[67:10]
John Middlekopf
I mean, their players are all in tears. Their fans are in tears. You know when you just get beat like the 49ers, because I think if you were told 49er fans, it's like.
[67:20]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Oh, yeah, we had, we were playing with house money. True.
[67:22]
John Middlekopf
But if you would have been in.
[67:23]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Overtime with Seattle and then lost, today.
[67:26]
John Middlekopf
Would have been rough because you've never.
[67:29]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Won a Super bowl with Kyle.
[67:30]
John Middlekopf
You've been really close, and now you've been really close again. I think sometimes it's either just to get your teeth kicked in, then just lose in the worst way possible, over and over and over again, as the Bills have. So both ways suck because you lose and the goal of the game is to win. But the Vikings have gone through this a lot over the years.
[67:56]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
Awful losses. When you haven't got over the hump, I feel like staying really, really hard. And then there's a category of the Bears where you're just so happy to be there, it's gonna sting. But within a couple days, you'll be able to hold your head high and be excited.
[68:11]
John Middlekopf
Adios.
[68:11]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
We'll see you guys tomorrow.
[68:13]
John Middlekopf
I guess we'll.
[68:14]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
We got a college football game, Indiana playing Miami. Like, Indiana in that game. Actually, the more I thought about it, probably going to bet on Indiana wouldn't shock me at all. Stuckey brought up a good point. Sometimes you look up at the end of the season, this happened with LSU and Joe Burrow, and they just blow everyone out. Like, would it shock anyone if you just. Indiana wins the game, you know, 38 to 10. I, I, I'm tempted.
[68:37]
John Middlekopf
Like, I wanted to take Miami.
[68:38]
Co-host or Guest Analyst
And the more and more I thought about it, like, I'm, I'm just not betting against this Indiana team.
[68:45]
Commercial Disclaimer Voice
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[68:49]
Podcast Host
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