← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Seahawks’ Mike McDonald is ELITE, Patriots’ Will Campbell’s Future, Dad Diaries, Post-Super Bowl Mailbag
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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. This is Lavar Arrington from Up on Game. This message is brought to you by Apple Card It's a great time to apply for an Apple Card. You'll love earning unlimited daily cash on every purchase. That includes 3% daily cash when you buy the latest iPhone, AirPods and Apple Watch at Apple through this special referral offer. When you get a new Apple Card, you can earn bonus daily cash. To qualify, you must apply at Apple Co getdailycash Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs bank usa Salt Lake City Branch offer may not be available elsewhere. Terms and limitations apply at Charmin we heard you shouldn't talk about going to the bathroom in public so we decided to sing about it. Light a candle, pour some wine, grab a roll the soft kind for a little me time. Charmin Ultra Soft smooth hair Wavy edges for my rear so let the softness caress your soul Just relax, you're on a roll let her rip. Shaman Ultra Soft Smooth T Sh Soft smooth hair has the same softness you love now with wavy edges that tear better than the leading one Ply Brand Enjoy the go with Charmin. The Volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing? John Midkopf three and Out Podcast hopefully you're doing well. Little super bowl comedown and the realization that football is over makes me sad. Really does. But we keep chugging here because got to keep the lights on so we'll talk some football because Sam Darnold is just I can't get enough of this story. Mike McDonald will Campbell dad Diaries Little Middle Cough Mailbag at John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those DMs and I will answer your questions here on the show. I will. I think I have one more podcast this week and then you never know. I mean we're in the reaction business so crazy things happen. I will do a show but I think the game plan is Thursday through the following week. No podcasts. So take a little time with my family. I got my mom and mother in law coming this weekend. I'm actually doing the herd with Colin on Friday and Monday, but those are quick, just day trips back and forth. But I'm gonna just take a couple days off, just take a deep breath, spend some time with my little man and my wife and help out a little more around the house. And then in two weeks we'll be at the combine. Going to the combine and we will try to do some fire content because I might actually got a text back today from a GM that literally just won the super bowl yesterday. So we'll see if we can effort Schneider back on the show. And I got a bunch of other guys that I'm going to reach out to and see who see who we can get on the this little podcast. It happens to be on Netflix, so make sure you check that out as well. And that will be the game plan as of right now. And other than that, make sure you subscribe, if you listen on Collins feed to the three and out feed. Appreciate all you guys that do. And let's, let's talk some football. Let's start with the idea of, of the term bust, because that term gets thrown around and obviously we have some legendary individuals that fall under that category, right? Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, guys that were drafted number one or number two overall that just were out of the league really, really fast. Johnny Manziel right now, he wasn't drafted as high as those guys, but just a disastrous tenure in the NFL. And then you have guys like Marcus Mariota, who was drafted really high and who hasn't been a starter in a long time and is a career backup. And I think there are two different categories because Sam Darnold that that word gets used a lot. I think you either fall into the category of you're not mature enough. You, you don't have the EQ at the time, in your early mid-20s to handle the situation, and you are a disaster as a person and you get washed out because the league says we can't trust you, you're not good enough, and clearly you're not working hard enough. And this is just not for you and those guys. It's pretty rare that happens, right? But when it does, it's just a pretty historic moment that we talk about forever. And then there are just the guys that aren't talented enough. And that's where I think Marcus Mariota falls under. But he's going to have a long career. I struggle to call those type guys bus he was just overdrafted. If you play in the league for 10 to 15 years like you, you had a long, successful NFL career, just turns out you weren't a starter. Happens to a bunch of guys at a bunch of different positions that have long careers that are backups. Like, to me, that's very, very successful. Just turns out you were overdrafted. I remember when the 49ers drafted Solomon Thomas, number three overall, it wasn't his fault. Should have gone like the third round and we would look back at his career and go, Solomon Thomas had a hell of A career. He played in the league for 12 years. Instead, he's the third overall pick and you go, ah, didn't live up to the hype. No, I just think he was overvalued. And at the end of the day, the draft is a marketplace and you are judging their character, their person or which is by far the most important thing, which clearly Marcus Mariota, for example, checks all the boxes off the field, loves football, works hard, great teammate, everything you'd want in the locker room. He just lacks the talent to be good enough to make your full time starter and win games. Right? So I think when Sam Darnold got labeled a bust, it wasn't fair because he didn't lack the talent. Right? You, you see these guys all over the league that are backups. He's way more gifted than those guys like Mac Jones who's going to play like Marcus Mariota in the NFL for a long time. His skill set's not great. Not a great athlete, not a great arm. You know, he's nothing about him you would categorize as above average, let alone elite when it comes to his physical skills. Now, mentally is something I think he's worked a lot on to build his confidence. Clearly can handle a playbook, has played for Josh, now has played for Kyle. But like his physical skills are probably average to below where Sam Darnolds are pretty elite. He has an elite arm and he is extremely mobile. Not a running quarterback, but a very mobile quarterback. And then when you look at the guys that flame out of the league, you go, well, low character guy, couldn't trust him, immature, didn't try. I mean, a lot of guys that flame out of the league don't try. And then they look back and they go, God, I wish I would have put in a little more effort. That clearly was not a Sam Darnold problem. When you look at the people that Sam Darnold came into contact with early in his career, the jets and then the Carolina Panthers under Matt Rule, you'd go, those places are failures. Matt Rule was a failure as a head coach. He was not good enough in the NFL and jury's out at Nebraska if he's good enough in college, given how much money he makes, pretty sure they just went seven and five, you know. And while the Big Ten has some high end teams at the top, I wouldn't exactly call it murderous row in the middle and the bottom. So I would say that Sam Darnold was failed by the people he was working for and coaching him. And once he Got in the right situation. His talent shined, and definitely his character shined. And I thought he said this multiple places last night. And it really hit me about where his character and the way he carries himself comes from. And he gave all the credit to his parents. And it wasn't some long, like, you know, his dad taught him all the skills, how to throw, worked with him every day. It was just. They believed in me. And I think that's a very powerful. Obviously, we have a lot of young parents that listen to this. We have people that are older with, you know, older kids. We have people that will one day have a family. And I can only speak from my own experience. My dad was a tomato farmer. Like, he couldn't have envisioned his son, probably when I was 10 years old working in the NFL. And it wasn't something that he pushed me to do or ever brought up as an idea, but as my life kind of took that road, you know, to work in college football, not only did he never push back against it, and he wasn't. My dad was not some emotional, sappy guy. So there wasn't some talk in his office of, john, you can do anything you put your mind to. I believe in you. But he always supported me. And he never said, when I got hired at Fresno State out of college, how much money are they paying you? You don't have health benefits. You're just getting paid like 800amonth. This is your job. Never said that. He actually, with my mom, came to our bowl games, and we weren't exactly playing at the Orange or the Rose Bowl. We played in the New Mexico bowl, and they were there twice. And then when I got hired with the Eagles and I was making like $25,000 at 26 years old, he drove my car across the country. And watching Sam Darnold talk about his parents, there is something so powerful. And listen, whether it's your parents, whether it's a coach, whether it's your grandparents, whoever plays a strong role in your life when you're growing up, especially for boys in their teens and in their early 20s, most of us are kind of immature. To have people that support you, you honestly become driven to do it for them. You know, sometimes, especially in a lot of you guys have brought this up as you have children. You know, I lost my dad 2018. You become sappy in certain situations, and you. You think about things you accomplish in life, whether it be personally or professionally, and you get sad knowing that that person's not there to even see the experience or you can share the experience with them. And for those of you that, you know, have the opportunity to still be in those positions with your parents or, you know, you as a parent with your children, you know, you got to really take advantage of that because you'll look back one day when that's not available and goes, God, but it also drives you to go, you know, this person supported me. This person wanted me to be successful in whatever I wanted to be successful in. Not something they were living vicariously through, not something they pushed on you. And it kind of serves as a driving mechanism. I was watching some of Cowards. I did a little babysitting duty. Even though I've been told when it's your own child, it's not technically babysitting, but I like to consider babysitting. So I, I basically did dad duty from about 5:45am till about 1:00 clock in the afternoon. So I just. A lot of time on the couch with him sleeping, me and the iPad and the tv. And I was watching Coward, you know, talking about the difference of Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold. And Baker has this huge chip on his shoulder, which, again, he's not alone. Brady. Huge chip on his shoulder. A lot of coaches, big chips on. Sean Payton makes $20 million a year. It looks like he's got the chip on his shoulder the size of a boulder. We're all driven different ways, but I do think when you're driven to try to do it for the people that supported you from the jump back when no one might have known who you were, no one envisioned you being an NFL starting quarterback, let alone winning the Super Bowl. No one envisioned you starting whatever company you started, no one envisioned you doing whatever. There's a level of pride that you take in that. And I also think there's a level of humility that comes with that as well, because you just look back kind of in simpler times, and I, I just find Sam Darnold one of the more likable guys in recent memory in sports. And I think sometimes sports and listen, I, I've been in it. I. I know kind of how the sausage is made. I've been around other pro sports when I worked in radio. You kind of can become jaded to it all. And I think there's something in this story, in watching this guy have success with his teammates. I mean, in a weird way, everyone tried to make it about him, yet the way he's wired, he made it about everyone else, starting with his family, to his teammates, to his coaches. Something just Makes you feel good about watching all this, because, I mean, sometimes. And listen, I'll just be watching football, which I love to do, but you just. You just kind of become numb to it all. It's like, what's my take? What's the angle? What's going to be the most entertaining thing? What's the thing I'm fired up on? And this is just like, I just don't think you'll talk to anybody that won't go, that was cool. Like that. That was a cool moment. And in a world where we just don't have that many more of them, I mean, a lot of things in society just look like one giant fugazi. The. The Sam Donald, Sam Darnold story was just kind of, well, needed, and I. I thoroughly enjoyed it. And I'm gonna find myself rooting for the guy the rest of his career. A lot of you guys, especially younger people, ask me for advice. How do you. How do you get in somewhere? How do you. How do you get a hold of someone? How do I break into sports? How do I get a job working for a team? I want to become a coach. What do I do? And I saw this clip. It was actually from a couple years ago of Mike McDonald when he was the. The defensive coordinator for the Ravens. He was being interviewed, I think, by a big Georgia Bulldog podcast where he got. Where he was an undergrad and got the start to his coaching career. And he discussed how he broke in to the business because Mike McDonald was an undergrad that did not play for the Georgia Bulldogs, that was a finance major. I. I looked at his Wikipedia today. He was summa cum laude, something I definitely was not. And something when I see, like, I'm impressed, because if you can go to college and stay focused and stay disciplined like your parents, your teachers, like, no one gives a. Like, it's on you to excel in that environment. So you do that, especially at bigger schools in certain departments like that, that's really impressive. There is no disputing Mike McDonald's really smart. Like, Mike McDonald, from an IQ standpoint, if you just. If you just canvass the landscape. I'm not even talking head coaches. I'm just talking coaches in the NFL, he's probably in the top couple percent. I mean, there's probably half the league that are glorified gym teachers, and if football didn't exist, they would struggle to make 100 grand. And I'm not trying to be a dick. It's just a fact, you know? And I think it's why so many people in the business, there's so much resentfulness. It's a unique industry. I mean, you can be a position coach making 900 grand. Like how many humans, you know that are W2 employees that make $900,000? It's like, well, are they the CEO or the boss of the company? No. Well, are they like the number two? No, not really. They're just like middle management. I mean, it's very replaceable. Yeah, they make 900 grand, they sign a three year contract fully guaranteed. It's a very unique business that way. And I think Mike McDonald, who clearly is really, really sharp, could have ran a bank, right? Could have been a partner in some VC firm. Like I say this all the time. Like I watch Matt Ryan's press conference. If Matt Ryan wasn't a football player, he would have been successful doing something. You watch Drew Brees, like that guy would be successful if football didn't exist. Mike Tomlin and the Harbaugh brothers would have been just fucking fine. I promise you that. And you watch Mike McDonald, you're like football. A lot of coaches in the league that probably wish he would have taken a finance career because he's clearly elite at his job and he's only 38, 39 years old. But he discussed the way he broke in like he didn't know anybody. He wasn't on the team. So he sound like he knew the coaches. It's not like he was some blue chip athlete that everyone knew his name. He would show up at the facility once a week for years and he wouldn't really get yeses. It's not like they hired him to the staff, but he just kept up and kept going and finally something broke. Ironically, he said he ran into Todd Grantham, who was the defensive coordinator at the time at a Starbucks. But he'd already been wearing those guys out, so they knew who he was. And I, I, I think there is a power. And this is why I always give the advice, do something and follow a passion. Because when you follow a passion, it is much easier to go above and beyond to try to accomplish what you want to accomplish. Because if you're not passionate about it, it's really easy to tap out or go, I don't need to do this today, or I'm not really gonna go Sunday afternoon and do some extra work. I'm not really feeling it. But when you are. And listen, he's lucky. He's passionate about something. That is a lucrative profession, right? So if you're like selling, you know, Pokemon Cards. Who knows? That might be a lucrative profession too, but certain things are going to have a higher ceiling in terms of earning power. But Mike McDonald really benefited from. I wasn't going to take no for an answer. I was going to find a way in and I really respect that because he's a guy. I mean, there are a lot of coaches in the league that. I mean, there's a decent amount that played in the NFL or just played at a high level of college. You are just going to have the ability to network doing that. That is a huge advantage for you, right? I mean, I was a GA at Fresno State. We have a ton of guys that are now coaching either in college or the pros that played for that program. And a huge advantage they had. Just like me when I became a GA at Fresno State, Pat Hill got on the phone and recommended me to Andy Reid. I never would have worked for the Eagles if I didn't have that network of working for Coach Hill. Right? If I just tried to break into the NFL, it never would have happened. And I got lucky that my cousin had played at Fresno State. Mike McDonald didn't have look like he had any of that. And he got the opportunity. He never looked back. But he's also a product of, like, Sam Darnold. Like, Sam Darnold got drafted, the jets and then Matt Rule wanted him. Shocking. He failed. Once Kyle Shanahan, Kevin O' Connell and Mike McDonald got their hands on him, he shot up like a rocket ship to the moon. Mike McDonald's first job in the NFL as an intern came with John Harbaugh. I think Mike would be the first to tell you if Mike would have got hired by some random coach that was two and three years and done, his career is probably not here. That's the crazy part about life. That's the crazy part about football. Whoever gets you, you're in. Whoever you work for early on in your career takes you along a journey that you can't really plan for. I got very lucky when I worked for the Eagles. We've had a ton of head coaches that were on that staff. I have a ton of guys that either became GMs or number two throughout the league or scouting for different teams. Like, if I had worked for some random franchise that the coach got fired a year later, probably wouldn't know anybody. And I think when you look at Mike McDonald, you go, Shit, just worked out. But he also kind of created his own luck. And you watch him coach, he's. He's elite. I mean, there is no disputing this. He obviously, like when you are a coordinator for a Harbaugh brother, like it's your baby. And clearly that defense a couple years ago in Baltimore, it's like, okay, number one defense. What's it going to look like when you're a head coach? Because I'm guilty as anybody. It's like, well, it's one thing being a coordinator. Try being the head coach two years in, once he gets with John. And they kind of establish exactly what they're looking for. Best defense in the league. Absolutely. Curb stomp an opponent in the super bowl, you know, so it's just like sometimes you, you just see a guy and you go, this guy's just better than everybody else. This guy is simply just better than everybody else. And I think he'd be the first to tell you a lot of my success I got, I accepted a job with the right organization with a stud GM. And Mike McDonald has associated with the right guys, John and Jim Harbaugh. Now John Schneider and his career has been a absolute rocket ship for the last six, seven years. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Band Florida Sportsbook. I know it's tough with no football. Makes me sad. But like the song says, I bet I will survive with Hard Rock Bet. There's always something every single night. Oops. Hockey. So much more. Plus all the great same game parlay, live betting and player prop options you're used to. And did you know that Hard Rock Bed is the official sports betting partner of the Miami Heat and the Orlando Magic? So they know their basketball. Hard Rock Bet app is the only legal sports book whenever you're in Florida. 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Call 1-800- GAMBLER Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia this month, iHeartRadio is celebrating the stars of the 2026 winter game. St. Paul, Minnesota is curling country, and Tabith Peterson is its strategic mastermind. As the skip of the women's squad, she's known for her calm demeanor and clutch shot making under extreme pressure. After leading her team to world championship medals, she returns to Olympic ice with unfinished business. Peterson's experience gives the Americans a fighting chance against the world's best, and she's ready to sweep her way to the podium for more Winter Games gold. Search olympics on the iHeartRadio app. Will Campbell can he turn it around? And this is going to be a fascinating question. All offseason, obviously Drake May was terrible, but anytime you were under duress, whether you're Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or whether you're to a Tonga by loa, you're going to be in trouble. Now Drake was bad, but as the game went on, it got worse because he was all out of sorts because offensive lineman couldn't block me or you. And when you're playing the best defense in the league with team speed at an elite level, you're going to be in major, major trouble. I mean, their DBs are blitzing like they're Troy Palomalu. All of their linemen can pass rush like you're in trouble. And when your left tackle has one of the worst games, I think I read in like the Internet era, you got to ask yourself, is he the right guy for the job? Because it wasn't just the super bowl, it was the playoffs. The Chargers destroyed him. Will Anderson made him look like a practice squad player. And here's the question. From a scouting standpoint, he's not some freak God given all time, just elite talent. He's not Jason Peters or Trent Williams who has the speed of a linebacker, who has the feet of a running back, who has the strength of, you know, one of those strongman competitions, who has it all. He's not that. And you watch him go up against powerful players, he gets tossed around like a rag doll. He doesn't have the length or the physical features of like a Joe Alt, right? He's a short, stubby guy who honestly looks kind of pudgy. Now can he reimagine his body with a better diet, with a better workout plan? Sure. But he's never going to be viewed as some elite talent. He's just not in most drafts he would never be the first tackle off the board. But they were desperate. He is a high character, work hard guy. And they said, listen, he's this our type guy was a weird draft and they took him. But. But the better competition he played, the worse it got. And I'm not just going to sell the guy like he could never pull this off and just say get rid of him. This is never going to work. But I do think if he's going to be a successful player, like part of what made Peyton Manning a success was not his athletic ability. It wasn't his arm strength, it was his fundamentals. He was the most fundamentally sound player probably in league history. I saw this clip of Jon Gruden, he was talking to some quarterback and he said Peyton Manning would make teach tapes of every single play in the playbook with the specific drills on the footwork and the timing of like 20 to 25 snaps of the each individual place and study it throughout the off season to make sure his fundamentals were perfect. Scottie Scheffler, best golfer in the world. Do you know the first thing he checks his alignment and grip, the most basic element of the golf swing. Not even the golf swing, it's just when you stand over the golf ball and when clearly his fundamentals, he's just lost right in Will Campbell. But if he is going to be a functional good starter, to me, he's going to have to be known as the most fundamentally sound player in the league because the guy that we witnessed was just holding on for dear life. And you can't function in the NFL if your left tackle cannot block. There are just two. The shitty teams have pass rushers. Think about that. The Cleveland Browns, who are a joke, have the best pass rusher in the league. The Raiders, who are drafting one overall, have Max Crosby, right? I mean, think about the. The Cardinals who are drafting high have some good defensive linemen. They got sweat. They could probably put Walter Nolan over them. Bad teams have pass rushers, let alone the good ones. So they're going to have to go in the lab and ask themselves, is it his fundamentals? Can we get him fundamentally sound to make him a solid player or do we just have to move them into guard? But the problem is left tackles don't grow in trees. So where do we even find one? They're not just available in free agency. And now because we just went to the super bowl, we're drafting at the end of the first round. And even in this draft, the best tackles are actually right Tackles, Miami guy, the Utah guy, like they're not left tackle. They literally play right tackle. Right? So I think the Patriots have to ask themselves because listen, he had an awful game. He's clearly banged up. He didn't have a good playoffs. But no one argues when they've seen Drake may healthy. Like that's a guy that every team would want. That is a young player with a ton of upside. Just what you want in a quarterback. That's not the case when you watch Will Campbell. Listen, I was hesitant to go, you know, Joe Walt. I see it because I let Joe Walt. You're like 6, 9, 6 10, you're going to play tackle and then you watch him move. He's got feet like he's Lane Johnson. You're like, this guy's a big time athlete and he's powerful. He's just really good. His bend is not an issue. Like it's a big time talent. That's not the case with Will Campbell. And I think Mike Vrabel, who is an in the trenches tough guy, has got to ask himself some tough questions this offseason. Can we make this work or do we got to make the pivot right now? And if we make the pivot right now, what are our options? Because most of them are not going to be that good. Before we get into the mailbag, I just have a quick dad Diaries. I last week before I went to San Francisco, I had to record some interviews. I did one with, with a couple of our podcasts on the volume and just some other random people. And I just didn't have time to go to this doctor's appointment and my wife was just taking him for a checkup, but he also had gotten circumcised like a week before. And it's just, it's, it's tough. I mean when you watch that, that the process of like the week or two before the little thing they put on top falls off, it doesn't look great. And you know, if you. I've never seen a kid circumcised, so she's like, let's just double check everything's okay with the doctor. So she gets there. Turns out our doctor, I don't know if a car accident or something, but he just wasn't there. He. They said he was injured. I still, I still haven't heard what his injury is, but he was just injured out of the office. So essentially. And I'm, I'm here in the office, she's at the, at the pediatrician's office. So they give her, like, a backup doctor, who she said felt like, you know, a borderline intern, didn't really know how to answer the questions when it came to the circumcision. So she called one of the main doctors and put him on FaceTime. So he's like, hey, let me check and look. So obviously, you got to take off the diaper and go the FaceTime. And right as they're FaceTiming, he unleashes. And anyone knows this about young children, they are not taking hard poops. They are taking waterfalls. And if he's at the right angle, a little tipped, that waterfall will shoot. And she says, right as they point to go for the checkup for this guy who knows where he is, some other town, whatever, in Arizona, it just explodes, and they all have to, like, jump out of the way. And as we like to call it in this house, he did a Jack attack. And I'm very, very sad that I missed that moment. His first FaceTime came with a gigantic shit that he fired right at the phone. And it turns out the doc said, yeah, it looks completely fine. And now a week later, it's. It looks like he's got a normal penis. One day I'll listen to this and be like, dad, why are you talking about that? But it is what it is. I found out from some of my Jewish buddies, they do, like, a ceremony. We just sent them off and get that thing snipped about a weekend, which I. I think they said we had heard that It's. It's better to do it like a week later. I. I think I just got snipped in inside the hospital might be tmi, but is what it is. But you just never know. You know, you just never know. You put that diaper down, it's free game to come out any hole. And it could go high, too. So you gotta kind of gotta keep your head out of the side. You gotta keep a diaper or something ready to. To kind of protect yourself like a shield. And that young doctor or nurse or whoever she was that was helping out Maria didn't know what was coming. And Jack fired, and Jack won. Okay, let's do the mailbag at John Middlekopf. At John Middlekopf. Is the Instagram fire in those DMs? Get your questions answered here on this little podcast that's on Netflix. Let's start with Jesse. Big fan of the show. I'm wondering if you have any insight on what it is about football that makes nepotism work so well, especially in coaching in most industries, nepotism seems to bring down the overall level of excellence. But it seems like especially on the offensive side of the ball, there are so many sons of great coaches who are doing extremely high level work. Curious what you think. I've actually thought a lot about this and let's use the example of you and I own a company and that company is wildly successful. Let's say it makes a hundred million dollars a year. We just have a cash cow and we're doing, you know, high percentage of net profit. Like life is good. We're both 60 years old and our kids are in their mid to late 20s. And we're gonna make those guys partners and they're gonna run it. Well, let's say that one of them, if not both of them don't really care about the business. They've obviously grown up pretty well, pretty rich. Maybe you and I did not that those guys can just kind of come into the company. Let's say the company is self sustaining. They don't have to do much. Our clientele is already well established. It's already a, a train rolling down the tracks that those guys can, can screw things up, right? If anything, just stay out of the way. But if you put those guys in management positions where then they have to deal with people, those people might not respect those individuals and those guys could throw off the vibes the business and ruin the company. It happens all over the place. That, that might not be the best example. But clearly people in any industry that are just given a job, quote unquote nepotism or given the opportunity because of a name, because of a family member. If I'm just doing it because like, well, my dad did it or my uncle did it or whatever, but I don't really care about it. But hell, it's just gonna make a lot more money doing this than I would any other job. Probably not it for the right reasons. And that's usually where the problems, you know, arise. We're in coaching. Let's use Kyle Shanahan as an example. His dad, legendary coach, probably should be in the hall of fame. His first job in coaching is with Jon Gruden who actually Sean McVeigh replaced Kyle Shanahan or might have came a year, might, might have been the guy replaced the guy who replaced Kyle. Once you go work for Jon Gruden, who is getting to the office every day around 3:34am you are the lowest guy on the totem pole. And if you are in that position, your job, he's the offensive Coordinator, you are basically his personal assistant. Do you think that guy gives one flying, you know what, who your dad was, what your name is or like what your problems are. And here's the other thing, especially early on in your career, none of the other coaches really do either. So you kind of got to prove yourself to those guys or else you're just not going to make it. And the hours, if you don't like coaching, like if I don't like using that example of a different business, if the business is operating, I don't even need to show up. I just go on vacations all the time. I can dick off. You can't just not show up. From the start of training camp through the end of the season and it's every bleeping day, early, late, you are just there. So you could half ass it maybe for a season, but you couldn't do it for many seasons and you couldn't earn your way up working for people who are not your father. You know, the Kubiax, the Shanahan, these guys, their career started not working for their father. So once you start working your way up, those guys have to respect you. And then once you become a position coach, you then go into a room where the head coach and the coordinator are not present. So it's you, let's say you're Kyle and you're the wide receiver coach, or you're Sean McVeigh and you're the tight end coach, or you're Clint Kubiak and you're the running back coach. It's just you. And however many of the players for from August till hopefully middle to late January and you have to earn their respect. Do you think they give one flying, you know what, who your dad is, especially when your dad is not on that staff, the answer is no. So you can't, you can't hide. You will get exposed. You either have the knowledge, you either have the willingness to connect with these guys or you do not. I actually think it is a massive advantage because Shanahan or Kubak, when they are kids, they understand what coaching is in terms of the hours. Why? Because when they're in junior high and high school, their dads are not home. So if they aspire to get into that industry, they understand the hours that come along with it. Right? They're not getting into it blind. I think sometimes players have a false sense of how much you have to stay in the office and the more they dig into it, they're like, yeah, I don't want to coach where if you are some of these guys, sons, you go, listen, I'm going to do this. I'm going to be gone for a long period of time for five, six months a year. My family, my wife, my young children. You saw Mike McDonald, like, he sees his baby Jack 30 minutes to an hour a week. I think he's making that up a little bit, because Friday is like a half day, and Saturday, if they're at home, he's home most of the day. But his point was Monday, up until Thursday, I see my kid 30 to an hour. And he wasn't bragging. He's just saying this is. This is the gig. And whether we agree or disagree with the. The allocation of time, right? We could. We could disagree, trust me. But it is what it is. That's what those guys do. So I. I think for these young guys, Kubiax and the Shanahans, I mean, McVeigh's grandpa was the GM of the Bill Walsh 49ers. But once you're in it, you can't fake it. You can't fake it with the coaches you're working around, and you definitely can't fake it for the players because they simply do not give a. So for you to be good, you kind of just got to be good. There's no well. And we've seen stories come out about, like, Pete Carroll's kid, which is kind of embarrassing, but that's more of a reflection of Pete. Like, the only guy Pete Carroll's kid works for is Pete. When you look at McVeigh, like, he's worked for the Grudens, right? He's worked for the Shanahans. You look at Kyle, he worked for Gary Kubiak, and he worked for his dad, and then he worked for Mike Petton and Dan Quinn. So he and John Groot, like, so you work for other people that don't necessarily have a connection or aren't a relative. And once you're in that environment, whether it's, you know, me or him, like, we're kind of on our own to figure it out, and you're either going to be good or not good at it. And I think most of those guys, their passion for football, like, is. Is probably pretty elite. And I don't mean, like, me and you just being a huge fan, watching the games. I mean, they eat, breathe, and sleep. It. It's honestly not healthy. And most coaches are. Whether your dad was a coach or whether you're Mike McDonald and you were a finance major, you just wanted it. You are an addiction. And football is the crack, and they can't get enough of it. And luckily with football, you know, you can't overdose. Well, you kind of can. You can burn out. But I, I just think that no matter who you are, you know, Arthur Smith, we can debate how good of an offensive coordinator was. He was good for those couple years with Rabel, with Derrick Henry. His dad was worth billions of dollars. He did not need to be doing this, and now he's at Ohio State. But he, he clearly likes the grind of football, and he played in college, and football means a lot to him, and he's willing to put in the hours because it's not. You can't half ass it. And I think we all know or work for people that had an in, whether it be a family member or however. It's like, this guy's a fraud. This guy's a phony. It's. It's hard to be a good coach in the NFL and be a fraud or a phony. It's. It's actually impossible. It really is because of the energy it takes of putting in from a film standpoint and a game plan, schematic standpoint, and then to the connection with your players. Because if you don't connect with your players, you'll get, especially in this day and age, you'll not only get exposure, get run out of the league. And I think that's happened to a lot of guys that just don't care about that, and it's not possible. And I think a lot of those guys are very, very comfortable around football players, you know, and I think that's a huge advantage. You know, I saw Kyle Shanahan say on the broadcast yesterday he'd been in nine Super Bowls. I'm like, doing the math. I'm like, your dad won two, you've been to three. Isn't that five? But he went to a ton as an assistant coach with the Denver Broncos that he lost a bunch of them. I was like, I, I didn't realize that. And I, I think part of it is once you see that, you go, this is all I've ever wanted to do. And there might be some psychological thing of trying to prove to your dad. I, I, regardless, like, you become really, really good at it, and your knowledge and understanding of it is pretty special. I was reading a book, something about it might have been a Belichick book, and Belichick and Mike Shanahan were very good friends, even though they, they competed against each other right, in the AFC and had played a lot of playoff games like they were. They both were close. And I don't think Mike Shanahan was friendly with that many people. But there was this one scene after like a playoff game. I think the Broncos beat the Patriots. It would have been the earlier mid 2000s or I guess it might have been the 90s. I. I forget the exact game. Belichick might have been an assistant coach, but they were talking to his office and Kyle was in his office and Mike looked at him and said, kyle, get the hell out of here. And Kyle's like a high school kid. So I, I think part of it is proximity to greatness does not equal that you're going to be great. But it does have a huge advantage when you're a young kid and that mold your thinking. And those guys, let's use the Kubiax and the Shanahans, like their dads kind of know what they're doing and they've mastered their offense. It's just like some people in certain industries that are born into a business are good. Right. Because they're passionate about it. I. I think where you get exposed is when you're not passionate about it and you're just doing it because this is a family business. It's money and you don't give a it ain't gonna work long term would be my take as a confetti settles. The name trending on X has been Bo Nix. It has become the great what if if Knicks doesn't break his ankle or the refs call that egregious hold in the end zone against the Bills to end the game early. Knicks is in the super bowl with a more aggressive defense who could force Darnold into mistakes. Quarterback is more battle tested than May. He has been a better playoff performer as the best O line in football. Bo loves the type of muddy game that Seahawks play. All the thinking heads know that with bow the Broncos are in the super bowl and would be looking at a win with how the style of game played out. Is that now the greatest what if in league history? I can't go that far. I to think that. Listen to think Bo Nix who had a very up and down season would just go to Levi's and excel against that defense. I can't. I can't go that far. Would the Broncos with a healthy Bo Knicks have been a better team? 100%. Are the Broncos healthy with Bo Knix a better team than that Patriots team? Yes, they are. Do I think if the Bills would have beat the Broncos and played the Patriots in The AFC championship game. Do I think the Bills would have won? I do. I mean clearly Drake May was injured and he did not play very well in the playoffs. So I think it's fair to say that the Bills and the Broncos, the winner of that game should have been in the in the Super Bowl. But Josh Allen missed a throw late in the game and Bo Nicks broke his ankle and it broke Patriots and then we had to witness the Patriots get curb stomped. But I, I, I, I'm not confident to know what if Bo Nix is there? I, I would imagine Seattle still would have been favored would be my guess. Everyone is going to say it was a situation around him. He couldn't do anything. But Drake May has had one of the worst playoff runs ever. He was missing wide open throws last night. Everyone in the media tells me they would pick him number one for the next 10 years. To be honest, I would pick Sam Darnold, Caleb Williams, Jordan Love and many more over him. There isn't his playoffs were bad. I think I heard seven turnovers. If it's a shoulder. He was not good. He was not good. Like I told the Colin last like I told Colin last night, he's never been in these moments. This is not a guy that played at Alabama or Ohio State. He played at North Carolina. The ACC is terrible in North Carolina is not good. So in last year his rookie season was like one of the most embarrassing season for the Patriots in the league in the history of their franchise. So it's like this was a big like welcome to the league and let's face it, I mean when you base on the schedule, let's play two Bills games. Played two Bills games. In one of them he kind of self combusted at the end. I'm a Drake May guy. Same thing with Herbert. I don't just jump off the bandwagon. Playoffs are hard. I'm old enough to remember. I loved, I was a Peyton Manning fan before. I liked Tom Brady. I rooted for Peyton Manning against Tom Brady when I was in high school, in college and that's like 2000 to 2007 till Peyton won his first Super Bowl. Peyton used to shit the bed in playoffs. He was terrible. Belichick and the Patriots owned him. He was horrendous. So it's like you can have bad games. Does anyone act like Peyton Manning couldn't get it done in the big games? No. So he's 23 years old. He's got a long career ahead. Yeah, it was ugly. There's no way to put it hope you enjoyed the Super Bowl. Just looking ahead the next season. Free agency. Do you think in light of the Niners injuries and openings, Kyle Pitts and Joey Bosa would be good additions? Pits may cost some money, but effectively play wide receiver and tight end. Bear in mind IUK is off and we're not sure about JJ Bosa could sign on a short term contract. I think Juwan Jennings probably gone. I, I think someone, you know, wide receivers like him that are productive either, you know, saw several years ago Christian Kirk, remember he got a huge contract. He's a different type player. But when you're a productive player and you've been a winning player and you have certain skills, the one thing Juwan Jennings winning teams are going to like. He's fucking nuts. He blocks. He kind of like he's a crazy competitor. I think good teams are going to really value Juwan Jennings. So I think there's a decent chance he's not there. You know, the Bosa thing, I would probably get out of the business of paying 10 to 15 million one year deals for players that are older. They kind of missed their window. Last year would have been the window and you know, they couldn't, they couldn't land them. I would say on Kyle Pitts, I haven't really dove into free agency in terms of money, but there are going to be some teams. The cap went up with an enormous amount of gap space and I think whatever you imagine the Niners would be willing to pay, like he's had one good season and he did look good. I mean at times this year like damn, that's Kyle Pitts. I remember in free agency there is no bargain shopping and with guys like Kyle Pitts, he's going to get overpaid and overpaid relative to like his career so far. Now maybe he's turned around, maybe he comes a great player, but whatever contract people are going to be like, damn, that's what happens in free agency. Because there's people bidding and these teams with cap space are just willing to spend money. I don't want to say like a drunken sailor, sailor, sailor, but I can't even speak. I'd be a little stunned if they end up with Kyle Pitts because I think it's going to be really, really expensive. Just a thought in your take on Tom Brady not having a dog in the fight. What if he's just a psycho winner and doesn't have, doesn't want his old team to win a Super bowl without him? You know, he kind of backtracked he posted something on Instagram about Robert Kraft. I do understand the guy that he just hired is going to be the coach of the Raiders. Is coaching for Seattle. I, I do think it's pretty easy, though, to be like, robert Kraft's like a father to me. I've known Mike Vrabel since I was a rookie. You know, he's, he's a close, personal friend of mine, of course, like my allegiance to the franchise, that made me. I'm, I'm a Clint Kubiak fan as well. I think he could have played it politically better than, I got no dog in the fight. And I think he kind of regretted that, and I think it's why a lot of former Patriots were like, come on, bro. Come on, man. That's, that's kind of absurd. But maybe he doesn't. Like, they did say, we don't want you back. And maybe he holds that against kind of the franchise. Because even if they would have won, what does that really diminish for Tom? I don't necessarily think it diminishes for him, but I also think it's like, why would I root for you guys? Last team I played for was in Florida. I didn't move back to Boston. I stayed here. Now, part of that is, as Belichick said, taxachusage. You know, Florida's a little easier on his $37 million a year Fox job, but regardless. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think there are a lot of variables there, but I do understand the fans, like, oh, my God. Especially because. Which is definitely fair. Patriots and Tom have been some controversies, and that fan base got his back. They, they went to the mat for the guy. I mean, they, they were extremely loyal to that individual. Right. And then it feels like you just forget about, we didn't kick you out. Bill did. We fired Bill. Come on, man. I think the variable thing, too, it's like, that's like one of your best friends. You're not. You weren't rooting for him. Maybe Tom wasn't from the oil fields of Midland, Texas oil. Landman, baby. I thought Landman this season was terrible. I thought it was really boring. Even if the Raiders reboot with Kubiak and draft Mendoza and trade Crosby for players and picks, do they have a chance to compete in two or three years? Division is loaded with Andy Peyton and Harbaugh. Is it just the wrong place and the wrong time? This is why I think hiring Kubiak makes sense. You have to have a big picture, kind of holistic view of building this team, you cannot have short term vision when undertaking this off season. Part of taking Mendoza is like, we want to be in position, probably definitely be much improved by a second and third year when we can really take advantage of his contract. But the Crosby thing, I mean, there's a lot of smoke with that someone. I think Lock and Fora wrote that Crosby told Brady, I'm done playing for you. Obviously, Glazer said that he's done with the Raiders. Schefter went on McAfee, they asked him about it. He kind of tiptoed around it. But it sounds like Max is ready to move on and I think they can take advantage of it. I think they get two first round picks for Max Crosby. Now, if you're trading with the Bears or the Bills or the Patriots or one of these teams, these are picks in the 20s of a draft that's not viewed as great. So I think you kind of go, well, is it worth it? Two picks in the 20s? You know, thing with football, you never know. My guess is sitting here right now is they kind of reset and trade them. That would be my guess because how many more years, you know, once you get to round 30, are you going to be able to trade the guy for multiple first round picks? Especially if you're not going to be winning next year, right? Maybe you'll be better than you were last year, hopefully, but you're not, you're not competing for the playoffs, so. And I think Crosby's market, hell, it might get you two ones and a two. Two ones, a two and a player like you probably get you a hole. There's a question about Max. Huge fan. I was just wondering where you think the best landing spot is for Crosby. My first pick would be Buffalo, but I wanted to hear your take on it. I think Buffalo would be heavily involved, though their GM has shown kind of the opposite in terms of aggression. I would imagine Seattle would be very, very aggressive. They've already done a deal with the Geno Smith, so Schneider and Spy Tech have worked together. I would say the Bears would be a team to keep an eye on. I would say the Eagles would be a team to keep an eye on. The 49ers would be interested, but Mark Davis would never allow them to trade to the Niners. Rams have two first round picks. Could they be involved? The Cowboys? I mean, I think it's kind of the normal cast of characters. Who am I probably missing? The Patriots, you know, I guess he likes Variable a lot. They would never trade him to the Chiefs. They would never trade him to the Chargers. The Ravens, they. They're desperate for pass rush. Every season, there seems to be a player where scouts and media say, this guy was a steal in the third round. And more times than not, that player gets drafted in the third round and ends up being a steal. So as a former scout like yourself, you'll have a better insight as to why this may happen. I'm curious, if most agree the player will be a steal, why doesn't he go higher? Well, the draft is an economic exercise. So if you are a corner, well, let's use a wide receiver. And you play at a smaller school and you run kind of slow, yet every time I watch you, you're the best player on the field. When you run a 4, 6, 1, and you're only 5, 11 or 6ft. Historically, guys that fit those criteria don't get drafted in the top 50. Right. It's like the real estate market. When you're looking at a house, what's the first thing you do? Comps. It's like, well, I want to sell this house for a million dollars. Well, the three comps on this street, the high is $875,000. So I'm not paying a million dollars for that house. So part of it is a market value of what I have to pay for the player in terms of draft capital based on the metrics really matter. They just do. It's why a lot of people went, will Campbell's arms are just too short. I'm not fucking with that. And people are like, well, he's the best tackle. And then look, I mean, a lot of people go, I would never have taken him that high. I bet there are some people that go, I would have taken Will Camel in the second round, but they took him fourth overall. And that could be, you know, analogous to like, like the housing analogy. I just said, you know, the market value says 875. And the Patriots paid $2.5 million, which could be a disastrous investment. Right. If he's just a below average player. So I think a lot of it has to do with a guy run slow. Character is hard to determine. You know, I think sometimes guys flip because character can simply be coaches kind of bad mouthing the guy. And I'm not saying it's not true, but, like, you know, he doesn't listen. He's not a great teammate, he doesn't love football. Like, you can be a great college player, but if everyone in the program tells you, I don't think he really likes football, I Think we have a long history. If you draft guys like that, they tend to let you down. But you go get this guy was just like a second team all American. You got him in the third round. I think it's very hit or miss. But you look at a lot of players, you know who. Funga is a good example. Bronco safety Hu Fung is a high end player but he ran slow in college. He didn't really have a position. Like was he a safety, was he a linebacker? Historically a lot of guys like that find themselves position list and not very good in the league. So he goes in I think fifth or sixth round he's become, he's been an all pro. I mean he was every time you watch the Broncos he's crushing people. But he's a good example of like the character, the want to the leadership. Like all those boxes he checks and he's got with good coaches and he's excelled. But I think the variables usually are measurables. You either run slow, you're kind of shorter, you have small hands. If you're a quarterback you have poor testing because it's typically on a guy who was very good in college, so he produced. But then he does that testing because historically testing kind of matters. Like there aren't many guys that are going to be pro bowlers running a 47 at wide receiver. But there is Keenan Allen. But if you make a living on drafting Keenan Allen types, you're not going to find many Keenan Allen's. There are some defensive linemen who are just six feet tall that are excellent pass rushers. Most of them are not. So I think you got to balance it out and there's no right or wrong way to do it. It's why the valuing of the person matters so much. Are we drafting the right guy? Because typically the guys get drafted high fit the measurables. Right? But there's a difference. Like the guy the Raiders took a couple of years ago, Wilson from Texas Tech fit all the measurables but can't play dead in the western. Right. And then Lucas, Lucas Van Ness, I think his name never started at Iowa, never started in college. But his measurables, he was a freak. So he fits the mold of the type guys that have had success that were drafted in the first round. But it's like this guy never started. Even though I think he actually kind of came on toward the end of this year. It's just these are the type conversations that are there a lot of these teams are in meetings right now and you're just having these conversations like coach or whoever my GM is. I love this guy. I know he's a little shorter, I know he's a little slower. This guy's going to play. And the first thing that, that guy at, who's his, who's his comp in the NFL, who does he remind you of? What type player can you use as an example that he, that he plays like again, the comp thing like in real estate is enormous in football. I remember my last year doing it, I had Robert woods and he's not as good as this guy. But I went, you know, there are some similarities to Reggie Wayne. That's the way he's going to play. And, but that's the best case. It's rare that you use like, you know, some random slot receiver usually use like Julian Edelman, Wes Walker. Right. This guy reminds me of DeAndre Hopkins. You, you typically, when you're, when you're pounding the table for a guy, you use the high end comparison because easier to sell the room. But that, that's why the draft is just, it's an economic exercise. And even if you go, I think this guy has a chance to be an All Pro if you know you can get that guy in the third round. You would never take that guy with pick 28 because that's terrible value. And you only have so many, you know, so much draft capital that you got to be very careful the way you utilize it. Congrats on the new family and the Netflix partnership. Recently you mentioned that Drake May could go one overall on a redraft. Who would you take in your top five? My first thought, jump to Caleb. Well, if you're making that argument today, I'm going to look like an idiot, right? I mean, Drake May after the performance in the playoffs, it's just something to monitor. Like, was he injured? Was the offensive line, Was he just overwhelmed? Because I'm a big Justin Herbert guy. I do believe that if you did a draft from scratch, Justin Herbert would not make it past five. But people would go, have you watched that guy playing the playoffs? Like Jalen Hurts said, way better playoff games than the guy. But no one in the league would take Jalen Hurts over Justin Herbert. So I think if you factored in young quarterbacks on rookie contracts, assuming Jaden is healthy, I think Drake, Caleb and Jaden would all definitely go in the top five. You know, CJ's an interesting one. I mean, I, I don't feel that comfortable with what I've witnessed. I, I have a hard Time with humans in any walk of life that don't embrace their strengths and understand their weaknesses. It's one thing as a rookie. It's like, okay, like, you've been in the league now three years. Like, why were you trying to play like Josh Allen? What. What's going on, man? Can, can we, can we watch some, like, Alex Smith tape? Like, be the better version of Alex Smith? There's nothing wrong. Like, you'd be like, no, I am Joe Burrow. No, you're not. Let's. Let's, let's relax a little bit. You cost us. Kyle Shanahan said he, like, cost him the Super Bowl. He didn't specifically say that, but he said, like, there were two defenses that were good enough to win a Super bowl on their own. It was Seattle and Houston. Basically, their special teams and their offense didn't screw it up. They could have won the super bowl. And the 49ers played both of them. So he's essentially saying C.J. stroud screwed up their Super Bowl. He ain't wrong because he did. So I couldn't put him in the top five based on that. Playoff performances in those two games. Like, I, I, I gotta have you play a little under control. I don't know. My mind's not firing at all Pistons right now, so. Who was just Cam Ward. I, I couldn't do that. Tyler Shuck might be a sleeper. A lot of Tyler Shuck buzz right now. Hey, hey. Falcons fan here. You gotta be kidding me. Pierce looked like a stud. Good enough that trading our first round pick seemed worth it despite getting roasted by the media. Quotes you. This has to be the most Falcons thing ever. What are your thoughts? I talked about it yesterday. You know, when you draft these character guys there, it's a roller coaster, and you can look like a genius for a period of time, and it can end at the blink of a moment, and that's what it feels like. I, I don't pretend. I, I always say, like, I listen. I'm not. I don't go to the NFL for, For, you know, teaching me life lessons. So I, I don't give a shit how the Falcons handle it. I, I do not care. It's not my problem. But it doesn't look good. And it does look like their hand, it might be out of their control, might be into the league's hand. So, I mean, you're facing five felonies, and this isn't, like, alleged, like, I mean, pretty sure this is. All this stuff happened on camera. So he in trouble but when you make a move like this for a person with major red flags, like, no one to blame but yourself. But who am I blaming? They fired everybody. So it's like Raheem and Terry Fontenot's like, good luck, Ian and Matty. Ice sucks. I mean, he was. By the end of the year, I'd be the first to admit. Like, you watch. What was this? 27 coming off the edge. Like, God damn, this guy looks good. Guy was a monster. Is anyone actually going to put some respect on Seattle this past week on the build up to the super bowl during the game has been absolutely embarrassing. I don't know what to tell you. Who cares? I think sometimes we worry about that stuff way too much. It's like the Patriots have been in so many Super Bowls. A lot of contingent of the media is from the Northeast. It just comes with the territory. You won. You've won your second super bowl in a decade. Like, you got a star, young coach. You got Sam freaking Darnold. Story of the NFL. Who cares who talks about you glowingly, like, all that matters. You won the Super Bowl. Question for the mailbag. I'm curious, what specifically makes Mike McDonald such a great defensive coordinator? Is it the scheme, the way he calls the plays? Or both or neither? Thanks for taking my question. It's a good question. I would say from my vantage point, it feels like. His ability to manipulate the defense is like the what these coaches do on offense. You know, it's like window dressing. It's like Kyle Shanahan, he runs the same plays, but he does out of a million formations. Andy Reid's ability to scheme offense is just second to none. It's pretty rare. Like defensive guys. Flores, right, Very aggressive blitzer. He's great at calling blitzes. Fangio doesn't run an exotic scheme, but knows it like the back of his hands when the players buy in the best fundamental scheme. Everyone knows their job. Hard to operate against. When I think Mike McDonald's like, you got no clue what's coming. Got none. I mean, yesterday he's blitzing. I'm pretty sure they were in the bottom five in blitzing this year. Like, they didn't blitz. And then they got Witherspoon coming off the edge like he's Troy Palomalu, like, and he's like, juking out offensive linemen. They didn't see that coming. I think he or one of their guys said that there was a tip that they notice on film that they knew that they could exploit. I mean, I think Mike McDonald's clearly really smart. I think there's a Belichickian angle to him. Belichick's greatest strength as a defensive coach is he didn't really have a defense, especially by the 2010s. He would do whatever it took to beat you. If he needed to have one defensive lineman or seven defensive linemen against a certain play, most like Fangio does what he does, and for the most part, when you got good players, it's going to work. I feel like Mike McDonald is like, I don't know what coverage is Mike McDonald gonna run here? Ask Kyle Shanahan. He said, fuck. I no clue. I remember Purdy saying after the games, like, we would get to the line and see, okay, this is what they're running. And then the ball would be snapped and they would do something completely different. And because they have so much team speed and going back to the Ravens, they're all their DBs can run, cover and hit. So when you can do that, you can manipulate stuff and really throw guys off. I mean, part of offensive football, right? If I'm calling a play, whatever, just some. Some basic route concept to the left. I'm. I'm schemed this play up because I think your defense that you run on second and longs, you tend to run this specific defense. And I know this route concept against that defense. This guy's going to get open in this area. So, Mike, we've practiced it in the game. We get the look. It's like, this is going to work. We're going to get a first down here. Maybe we're in the red zone. We're going to get a touchdown. Well, if you show me that look. But then the coverage is completely different when the ball is snapped, all of a sudden my quarterback, who's just kind of dead set on throwing that route because we got the look we wanted, hits your guy in the breadbasket, or your guy is in a position he didn't see and makes a pbu, all of a sudden the play doesn't work. And that's what it feels like. Mike with versatile defensive backs can really manipulate the secondary. And clearly he has a. You know, you either have defensive linemen that can beat guys one on one, or you don't. Like, I'm not giving Mike that much credit for, like, Leonard Williams or Hall or some of their defensive. Lawrence, right. I mean, you either got. He'd be the first to tell you, like, I Matabuque when he was there, or Kyle Vanoy or whoever. Like, you either got good front guys or you don't. But your back seven. Can your linebackers run and cover? Can all your DBs be versatile and play different positions? And his guys can. So then he can play chess. And that's what it feels like he does, is he throws curveballs that a lot of defensive coordinators just don't. You. Flores gets a lot. Flores does. This Flores, like, Mike Flores, a smart guy. Like, google Flores's background. Like, he's. He's an intelligent individual. So a lot of times, defense, like, let's beat him up. Like Mike Zimmer, we're gonna blitz up the A gap, which there's nothing wrong with that. I'm all for that. I like a good tough guy, but like, can you be a tough guy who is really intelligent? Because if you are, then you become like SEAL Team 6. And that's what it feels like. Mike and Flores and some of the top guys, you know, Fangio just. His defense is baby, but like, it's. I don't want to say it's vanilla, but I. I don't think he's really known for throwing that many curveballs. I mean, a lot of his defenses that have been really good have had like the best players in the league. And I'm pro Vic Fangio, don't get me wrong, but I think Mike is more like an offensive coach. Same with Flores, where you could put him with different personnel and they could figure it out. Where if you gave Vic guys that didn't fit, it ain't gonna work. And these are, to me, the best defensive coordinators in the league. So I'm never a big fan of like, this is what we do. It's what drives me nuts about Shanahan. It's like, come on, man, what you do works. But we gotta add some other variables there too. You know, Kevin O' Connell and McVeigh. It's like, guys, let's run the ball a little bit more. Let's not be so hard headed here. I feel like Mike, there's like, what does he do? Whatever needs to be done. Whatever I think is going to work, and if it doesn't work, we'll do something different. I think he's. I don't think he's like, I. I think he's the least tied to doing one specific thing. Like, if you just gave him just pick some random player that didn't necessarily fit them, I think he'd make it work. I think that's like his greatest skill. And I think part of that might be his upbringing of like being an Undergrad, not playing in college, kind of having a fresh set of a fresh mind, a fresh set of eyes, not being built as a player on a certain scheme and then getting into it. Like he kind of came in bright eyed, bushy tailed and open minded. And I think you go to the Ravens who have a lot of versatile players, he was able to kind of mess around. You know, I was talking to Daniel Jeremiah on the phone a couple weeks ago and we were talking about Jesse Minter. And you go back to Wink Martindale, who had those guys as young coaches. And it's just when you're around other talented people, especially young people, you kind of push yourself. And I wonder if both those guys throwing different ideas, it was almost like the equivalent of what Washington was with LaFleur McVeigh and all the Mike McDaniel and all those guys on offense in Baltimore with the defensive side of the ball, because it kind of feels that way. Like I would imagine Jesse Minter has a lot of similarities as Mike McDonald. They just do whatever it takes. And that's a Belichickian quality. It's what made him so special. It's like he could throw any pitch. It's like some guys just throw 98. It's like, well, you used to throw it down the middle. Like, hey, Aaron, Judge, can time this and hit it out. It's like, Yeah, I throw 98. It's like, boy, do you have a. Do you have a curveball? Do you have an off speed pitch? No, I just, I throw 98. Like that ain't gonna work. Some people will. A lot of guys that will. A lot of guys ain't gonna be able to hit it. Especially. Especially if you can locate it. That would be my take on Mike. Adios. See you tomorrow. The volume. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.