← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Top players in sports, Why Mike Malone got fired, how to handle the top pick
00:57:58
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- [00:00]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:30]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:01]
John Middlekauff
The Volume what is going on everybody? How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is having a great day. Masters is off and running. Hopefully if you've gambled like I have, our bets are looking promising. Can't win it all on Thursday, but you definitely can lose it. I promise you that we're going to dive into a couple different things today. Something I noticed last night at the warriors game in regards to Steph Curry and how it's just so different from a lot of other sports, specifically football. Something draft wise. We try to do something every single day in regards to the draft and the Nuggets fired Mike Malone yesterday in the NBA and I do wonder if it was because in a weird way of Sean McVay. So we'll touch on some different things. Obviously, slow couple weeks in the world of football as teams are meeting draft wise, getting ready for a couple weeks, but everyone's kind of hunkered down in their facility really trying to dial in that draft board, which is always a fun time of year. But you know, for us content creators, podcasters, I'd like some more explosive stories, but nothing really is going on. But we will talk some sports. But before we do, you know I got to tell you about my friends, my partners in the official ticketing app of this podcast went to a sporting event for the first time in a while last night thanks to my buddy Mark, who took me and my, my wife to the Suns game, which was really the warriors game, had a great time. And it got me thinking, like, sometimes it's just nice to mix up your routine, get out of the house, especially for us podcasters. Put on some real clothes. The only time we do that, at least in my world, is when I play golf. Other than that, I'm basically wearing the same thing on a daily basis and just interact with the people and get out there. And you're like, you know what, you guys should do that too. So if you want to go to an NBA playoff game, starts in a week. You want to go to an NHL playoff game, I would guess it starts relatively soon. You want to go to a baseball game, Major League Baseball, often running concert season right around the corner. People I heard, we were talking about it last night. Carrie Underwood had a residency in Vegas. I've never heard anybody that has gone to Vegas, whether it be at the Sphere, which I've heard is incredible, or just seen someone in a residency situation like, you know, the Eagles or Celine Dion back that didn't have a great time. Sometimes just going to a concert is a great way to get a positive mood going if you, if you're a little down in life. And that's where gametime comes in. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase Terms apply again, create an account and redeem the code Johan for $20 off. Download the GameTime app today, last minute, take his lowest price guaranteed. You know, it's funny, when I got out of football, I mean, the first time I ever went to an NFL games when I worked for the Eagles, I never got to go to one growing up. And the first time I had been to NBA and baseball games in my youth, but my introduction to them once I got into kind of the radio world and I left football was really cool because. Because, you know, in the NFL or even college football, game day is same, no different. High school is very serious. There's not a lot of bullshitting going on on a football field an hour, two hours before a game. It's a very, very serious environment. And I remember when I started working in radio that I got credentials to go to the Giants. And this is when they were really good, like Buster Posey, Brandon Crawford, who actually sat next to last night at the Suns game, really cool dude. And the NBA games, where the warriors at the time were coached by Mark Jackson and kind of this up and coming team. But I remember going to a lot of these games because you could just go to batting practice three hours or two hours before the game and just talk with Buster Posey standing there and you just have a conversation. Or Hunter Pence or whoever. Same thing in the NBA. You could just get there early. This is when they were really young and like have a conversation with Klay Thompson about football. And it was like, God, this is a completely different world at the professional level than the NFL where it's like you would never ever, you know, if you didn't know them. Go up to a player when he's like warming up an hour before the game, like, hey, Carson Palmer, what do you think? It's like, get out of my way, bro. Same thing with coaches. If you don't know them, it's. You're probably not striking up a conversation, right? It's a tense environment. So. So it was very, very cool to see something else. And the one thing with football that's, you know, and I would say baseball a little bit too, is the franchise. Like Aaron Judge is clearly one of the greatest Yankees of all time. But if he disappeared tomorrow, the Yankees will find another player and their brand. Like overall, the power of the brand. No different than the Lakers with LeBron, who's one of the great players of all time. The Lakers brand was enormous before him, it'll be enormous after him. Why? Because it's been built up for decades and decades and decades. I remember, listen, I've been to a lot of games in with the Niners or the Raiders and seen the Steelers and especially the packers and it's amazing how big and rapid their fan base is and how national it is. So when you go to a game against the packers or the Steelers, if your team is bad, they are going to have a home field advantage. And I definitely saw with the Raiders and some of their bad teams, the Steelers is like, this is a Steeler home game. Same thing with the Packers. It's because for decades upon decades upon decades, for countless different groups of players, they have built the brand. That is the Steelers, that is the packers, that is the Cowboys. Hell, that is the 49ers. I grew up on Steve Young and Jerry Rice. They were not the 49ers, right. In terms of like the Niners, since then they moved transition to Jeff Garcia. Then they got Harbaugh and Kyle Shanahan. They've had other successes. Like the brand really took off with Bill Walsh and Joe Montana. And I think sometimes individuals can pierce through that And I would say the best example when I was a child was Michael Jordan. Like, I'm not a Bills or a Bulls historian, but I don't think the Bulls were that important before he got there. And he turned the Bulls into one of the greatest cash cow brands you've ever seen. And it was simply because of Michael Jordan. It wasn't the franchise, it wasn't the ownership. It was one individual and basketball way more than football. Like if Drake may. If Drake may never wins a Super bowl. But he just becomes, let's say their playing styles are different, but let's just say like the level of like Philip Rivers, right? He just has like a. Philip, like a really good player, Pro bowl level guy can win with him if you're well run. The Patriots will be fine. They'll sell out. There'll be a really big deal. They'll be playing on primetime. And it's like, yeah, he's not Tom Brady, but the brand of the thing will not change and it will be worth billions upon billions of dollars. Last night, I'm sitting there, I'm next to Brandon Crawford, who was this starting shortstop for multiple World Series teams with the Giants. He went to multiple All Star games. Like he was part of. He wasn't actually part of the first World Series in San Francisco Giant history, which was in 2010. He's part of the second and the third. And. And he was a really, really big deal and a very important piece. And he was a part of this legendary kind of group of players. But like, ultimately, the Giants were built on Willie Mays, on Cepeda, on Will Clark, on obviously Barry Bonds, and they'll be good again and they'll be built on other players and the brand will maintain. But I'm watching Steph Curry last night and I'm looking around and it is just packed. And I mean packed with warriors fans. When we first got to the game, we go to the bar to grab a brewski and I hear this eruption. And I look over and I see the tv and he had just hit a shot. Steph had hit a shot, and he's on the road. You could argue that since Michael Jordan, there has not been a more important player to their franchise than Steph Curry. Because even Kobe Bryant, which was very important to the Lakers brand, like the first couple championships, Shaq was the more important player or definitely his equal, and he was more famous at the time. But even that version of those guys, the Lakers brand, was fucking enormous. It was the biggest brand in the NBA then it is definitely the biggest brand now with LeBron, like, and once LeBron leaves with Luka, it'll be fine. I'm watching Steph Curry and I go, if he disappeared tomorrow, this franchise that is now most of my life, like, like, I. I grew up closer to Sacramento and I, I was. I'm really an NBA nomad, nomad fan. Grew up in the 90s, fan of Michael Jordan, like most people. Then the Kings got good, joined them. And then when I got into the radio thing and I was around Stephen Clay, I was like, I love these guys and Draymond. And they start kicking ass. And they're just a fun watch, but their whole. It feels like the whole franchise value is Steph Curry. The Indianapolis Colts, they say the home that Peyton Manning built is. And the Colts dome is pretty cool. And obviously anyone that's been there in the town, it's easy to navigate even when it's cold because of the convention center kind of set up and you never have to leave. They cut him. And then Andrew Luck came in and they started winning. And they would have been fine if Andrew Luck hadn't just got a snowboarding accident and tapped out. But like, the franchise moved on, right? Like when Steph Curry retires or an injury ends his career or whatever. Like, the words. Their value as a franchise to me would get cut immediately in half somehow. Currently, they're one of the most valuable franchise in all of sports. I don't think we've ever seen beside Michael Jordan. Like what LeBron did. Yeah, he. He re awoke the Lakers brand, but the brand was already there. It's a worldwide brand. The warriors were a joke. They were. They had a local following, but their franchise for most of my life was fucking sucked. Were completely irrelevant. Yeah, they had some Bay Area fans. They were not a national brand. There is not a more national brand than this guy. And one difference of him and LeBron, which are obviously the two most important guys of their era, is LeBron's a nomad as well. He goes to Cleveland, leaves Cleveland, comes back to Cleveland, goes to la. It's like he just kind of. Steph's been with one franchise the whole time and he's driven that thing up like a rocket ship. And I just. In my life, I don't. He'd have to be on the short list of like, most entertaining athletes, any sport. It doesn't get any better. And when it comes to the value, like, you can't even compare him to NFL players because they are 100% replaceable. Obviously Brady wins Super bowl in 20 with Tampa, which was a really big deal. Then the next couple years they make the playoffs, whatever. Then they institute or implement and sign Baker Mayfield, put him in. They keep winning and everyone's like, oh, Baker's really cool, he's fun. Let's buy some Baker jerseys. Doesn't even skip a beat. Like, there is nobody that is filling that guy's shoes. Just like Michael Jordan. The Bulls were 100% effed when he retired. That is going to be the Warriors. And he is obviously spectacular player. I just don't think we've ever in a long, at least in the Internet age, anything quite like him. You know, maybe LeBron would have been that, he would have been that with Cleveland. But he's bounced on him twice and didn't even hesitate. Said, see, I mean, part of Steph's brand power and value to the franchise has been his loyalty to the franchise and never even entertained bouncing. But man, you watch this guy take this brand that was, let's face it, dog shit and basically turned it into the Yankees, the Lakers, like an NFL team. Quickly. Everywhere he goes, everyone's wearing his jersey. It's. It's wild. Ten years ago, you couldn't have paid anyone to attend a Warriors game on the road. I mean, now it's like they are paying to see this guy who's still 37, 38, and I mean, last night. It's funny, you know, in football you can get your ass kicked and you can kind of like tap out toward the end of the game. But you have to try early on or you will get hurt. In baseball, I was taught this early on in my radio career, it's hard to say a team like isn't trying because that's what you look like when you don't get any hits. So if you get one hit, it looks like you're not trying. You're just getting mowed down by the pitcher. Like that's part of the sport. In basketball, it's very evidence. Like, yeah, these guys like Bradley Beals just not trying out there, like on the effort level. Like you can just tell on a basketball court, like it's one thing to just lose or even get kind of worked. It's another thing, like not even have effort. And just watching this was an eye opening experience. I mean, the warriors just absolutely toyed with them. But speaking of basketball, you know, the Nuggets, they fired their head coach yesterday. And a lot of these owners now own multiple franchises, right? They might own a basketball and an NFL team or a Baseball and an NFL team or a soccer team in an NFL team. So if you coach for one of the teams, like, you're always going to be judged by, like, if they own three teams, whoever is doing the best, the teams that aren't doing as well are going to be judged based on the teams doing the best. And the Kronkes have this huge portfolio of the avs, obviously the Nuggets and the Rams. And I remember when Kroenke moved, moved The Rams from St. Louis and everyone freaked out. It's like, guys, you guys stole the Rams from Los Angeles. Like, I understand even if the right move was to leave Oakland, like to go to Vegas financially, it changed Mark Davis's life. But like Oakland, when, like, that was the Raiders home where they started. And like, I understand them being bitter and furious when they left. Like the St. Louis fans, like, they're moving back to their home now. Stan Kroenke, Missouri guy, he's just a businessman. He just like, yeah, it's better off, more lucrative in la. And he's not wrong. But you lost a team that you stole. It's like, if you start sleeping with someone who's married, she marries you and then she leaves you for someone else. Like, can you really be that bitter? Like, shouldn't you have seen this coming early on? And Mike Malone gets fired. Listen, I heard Bill Simmons a while back say, like, God, the NFL owners are by far the craziest. They do all this batshit crazy stuff. The NBA is firing coaches. Two coaches that are headed right to the playoffs got fired. One with like three weeks left. The other guy with a week left in the season. Can you imagine the NFL if a team like the Nuggets that have the best player in the world, who are a good team, who going through a little rough stretch just like two weeks left in the season, fired the coach at like 9 and 6. It's like, guys, they're going to the play, that'd be, that'd be insane. But in basketball it's like, yeah, it's kind of crazy league. But if you're the Kroenke family. And I was thinking about this because I remember when Jim Harbaugh and Trent Balky were at odds in getting in fights. And this happens sometimes in football, right? The GM and, and the head coach are at odds. And I've seen some people, whenever this happens in sports, like, isn't it the owner's job to figure it out with those guys? And I would push back if I'm an owner and I'm paying my coach and my GM millions of dollars each. And both these guys are somewhere in the age of between 40 and 60s, right? These, these are adults. It's one thing with a player, right? Players are in their 20s. People are highly emotional. It's a tough, pressure packed position. Like, sometimes you have to intervene, maybe sit down with them and their agent. You get involved. Totally understand. If I owned a team in any of these sports in my GM and head coach were not getting along, I'm doing one of two things. I look at them both like, it is not my job to figure this out. You two are adults. You guys either get along. I'm either going to pick whoever I like the most out of you two if there's a power struggle, or I'm going to fire you both. But it is not my job to basically be your parent and figure it out. And it was pretty clear. You know, I've read some articles with the Nuggets that these two guys hated each other. And if you're the Crocky family and you see Sean McVay and Les Sneed flip teams around, the way they act, just how professional they are, I would have zero patience. And I like Mike Malone. I think he's an entertaining personality. But when you start walking around like your shit don't stink, Even if your GM's an idiot and you won't listen to anybody and your team's not really listening to you, like, it's not my job to figure out your relationship with your gm, either figure it out. Or if you get fired, like, I'm sorry, I feel little to no empathy. But when I have Sean McVay and Les Snead as the example, if I was the Cronky family, like, that's kind of what I would be looking for. And I would have little to no patience of like, I got to hold your two hands. You guys are both. I don't know how old Calvin Booth is. I would imagine over 50. I know Mike Malone's like 53. I have to sit down and have a pow wow to make you guys like each other. Is this sixth grade? Like, what the fuck are we doing? So when I see these guys fired and you read some of these articles, like, of course, now, you could argue the timing's insane, but in terms of, like, getting rid of them both, totally understand. Like, I think some of these coaches and front office people that get to be like, this power struggle and this ego attacking each other don't realize how stupid they look on the outside. Sometimes in how the fight tends to take both guys down. It's rare that you just get one winner and then that guy just gets to win forever. Every once in a while it happens but for the most part even if the guy wins in the short term, he usually goes down in the next couple years. I remember last year my guy Adam Peters took a lot of crap because he brought in all the quarterbacks at the same time and he took them to topgolf and and everyone on the Internet was talking crap. They were all just got to know what he's doing like why are you doing this? Why don't you bring him in one by one. And it clearly was the right move because he brought them all in together. He got a feel for how they acted. He almost like it was like an alpha test who was going to rise above them all and he clearly made a choice that through one year looks like the right choice. You could argue Ryan polls. Why didn't you bring in all these guys? You just went with the easy thing like Caleb Williams. I'm not saying it's the wrong choice but looking back, Ryan Pole should have brought every single one of these quarterbacks, especially the top three guys into his building and he didn't. I would take the approach if I were these GMs and spy tech is currently doing it. He brought Jackson Dart which obviously he's not going to take it six but would he take the guy in the second round? Could they trade up and get but Ashton Gentian, Will Campbell at the same time and I do wonder if you bring in the guys at the same time and just watch the way they interact together you might get a better feel than if you bring them in individually. Now sometimes just logistically they're coming from the same training area that's the dates that fit for them. So sometimes it's not as deep as they're trying to figure out and let the cream rise when they walk in the building. But I think the no brainer move, especially if you're drafting really high would be to bring in as many of the guys that are on you know, the potential list of people you would pick all in together and get a feel for like when they're at breakfast, when they're at lunch, when they're walking around the building all at once instead of. Because sometimes like if you just if you're a single guy and you dated four women, right And I said you had a date Monday, you had a date Tuesday, you had a date Thursday and you had a date Saturday, There's a chance if Saturday just goes, oh, pretty good, even if you like some of the ones earlier in the week, that's just the fresher experience. And sometimes that changes the way you look at it. So when they're all there at once, when they all leave, like, you kind of have, I would say, somewhat of a gut feeling when they're taking off of what you felt when you're around them all. And these are very, very difficult decisions because we won't know if you're right or wrong for years moving forward. But when it comes to pulling the trigger when you're drafting really high, you better get it right because ideally, if you start winning, you're not going to draft this high again. So you get the opportunity to take really talented players. You get the chance to pick between the group, right. And there's a chance the team 10 slots below you will draft a better player. But it's not because they had more options. They actually have less. Like, you have options to players that they probably would have picked if they were given the chance instead of the guy that they actually took that turned out to be good. So you just, I think bringing guys in together is the right move. Okay, let's end on this. Welcome to chasing challenges brought to you by Microsoft. In the NFL, just like in business, overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week we're discussing the challenge faced by the Atlanta Falcons. Listen, what they did last year is still a head scratcher. To give Cousins that much money to then draft Michael Penix. And now they're in this situation with Michael Penix as their starter. Otas and the off season starting, and Raheem Morris and Kirk Cousins is not coming around. Now, you cannot go into training camp. I don't care what you say and how much money Arthur Blank is and how big of a pro Kirk Cousins is. With Cousins showing up on your roster, you have to find a way to get rid of them. And Raheem Morris basically admitted Kirk Cousins and showed up to otas. He's not going to be around. And I think in a perfect world, they trade him during the draft. But here's the thing, and this is the challenge of being a head coach. And this was the problem once they made this decision because when they drafted Michael Penix and they said, well, we're just trying to load up the quarterback room, which we understand you didn't have the thought of drafting Michael Penix when you signed Kirk Cousins and gave him a no trade clause or else you never would have given the no trade clause. But you guys fell in love with them after you signed Kirk Cousins and now you're in this predicament but you don't control the Kirk Cousins trade because I'm sure there are some teams interested right now and are saying, hey, wait till after the draft and then we can rekindle and restart our trade talks and figure out a way to get Cousins on a roster. But that's not a lot of teams. It's got to be a short list, especially given that you're going to have to take on some of his salary, even if the Atlanta Falcons eat some. But what if those teams, and let's just say it's two or three, all end up with quarterbacks relatively hell, not even in the first round, but in the second and the third round. What if they're not interested in them anymore and now you're in a position where you don't have a trade target so you're going to be staring down the off season gun barrel of like are you going to start training camp with him still on the roster and trying to give the keys to this franchise to a young quarterback and make Cousin show up and have this weird kind of halo hanging over your offense in the quarterback room? You can't do that. That's just bad business. That's just bad ball. That's just bad management. So this is one of those situations from in a challenge for the Atlanta Falcons that's kind of out of their control. They better just keep their fingers crossed and pray that the teams that have some interest currently in Cousins do not fill their quarterback needs. In late April, that's it for this week's chasing Challengers. Remember, Microsoft's AI Solutions empower your to take bold steps and make informed decisions, speaking new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft.com challengers to learn more. The fight for the Jacket is on in Augusta. Get in on all the action at Drafting Sportsbook from the opening round Through Championship Sunday DraftKings sportsbook has you covered with live betting, player props and so much more. Have you never bet on golf before? Don't worry I got you covered. I love it and I do it all the time. You just have to pick a simple golfer to win the tourney and make your pick. It's that simple. They also got top tens, top twenties, head to head, a lot of different options. Here's something special for first timers. New DraftKings customers bet five bucks to get 150 in bonus bets. Instantly download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use the Code John. That's Code John for new customers to get 150 in bonus bets. 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- [27:42]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [27:48]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [27:50]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [27:58]
John Middlekauff
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [28:01]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [28:06]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me. Jeremy.
- [28:07]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [28:08]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [28:09]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important, important issues.
- [28:14]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [28:18]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [28:26]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [28:34]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [28:40]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents. We'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday. Keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartrade radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [29:16]
John Middlekauff
Okay, let's, let's bang out a few mailbag questions at John Middlekoff. Is the Instagram fire in those dms? I think I'm gonna do a big, big mailbag for Friday, so I'll just bang out a couple here. You guys know the drill to slide into my DMs and get your questions answered on the show. Calvin big fan for about a year now and this is coming from a Packers guy. What steps and moves do you think we as a team need to make to push us over the edge? Well, I would say you're not quite to the edge. You were one and done this year obviously against the champs last year felt like you were better even though your defense wasn't as good. I think you, we talk about the Packers a lot, you guys. Obviously worldwide fan base here to go from Farve to Rogers to now this. It looked like they did it again right after the Cowboy game and then even after last season ended. Even he, I know he, I think his season ended with a pick against the Niners his first year starting, but it was like, okay, the future is bright. And then last year he got injured against the Eagles and it just kind of made for a bizarre season. I've seen they, you know, it's listen, you're not going to bring in anyone on one of those 30 visits that you're not interested in. So anytime you see them bring in a wide receiver, I think it's fair to say the packers are going to take a wide receiver in the first couple rounds. They've had success in the second round. Right Devonte? Pretty sure Jordy was a second round pick. Might have been third round pick. Pretty sure he's a second round pick though those are doesn't get much better in second round picks Jordy Nelson and Devonte Adams. So you don't always need to draft those guys really high. But the thing with the packers like your expectations next year is to compete for the nfc. And Devontae's career didn't really get going until like second year middle the second year and by the third year he took off. So sometimes it takes, it takes a little time. I just think the offense has got to be more dynamic and whether that's some of the guys already on the roster taking big steps. Maybe you become just a true, true run heavy team. Which I think LaFleur doesn't mind doing. It's kind of his background. I mean Aaron Jones obviously Josh Jacobs a student trying to see what. How many. What were Jacobs stats last year? I know he missed. Was he injured? I know he missed games with the Raiders. But so Jacobs. Yeah he played in every game. I mean Jacobs was excellent. He averaged four and a half yards of carry at 300 carries, seven touchdowns, 1300 yards. I mean he's a big time player. Your backup running back at 500 yards. I mean you guys. How many teams in the league ran for more yards than the Packers? I can't imagine it was many. I would have been. You guys were near the top in total yards and you were you only the Bucks who had an unreal rushing offense. Washington whose quarterback also runs the Eagles and the Ravens which makes sense. So your rushing offense is excellent. I would just keep leaning into that now. You know the couple games when Malik started too but I would lean into that with Jordan. Love is take the pressure on him off him like you do not make him try to play like Joe Burrow. So I would just keep doing what you're doing and the defense gets better and which was took steps last year under halfway. I. I'd be bullish if I was a Packer fan. I really I got so many Stanley's and hydros. My question is do you ever plan on expanding the type of content you make? I understand you are a podcaster, but have you ever thought about making video essays where you dive deeper into a topic or a story with editing? It doesn't have to be that but I was wondering if you've thought about it. I've thought about a lot. We've dabbled a little bit in it. Probably dabble a little bit more. I just look at it like this is going really well and I just try to put all my energy into this and then dabble a little bit on the side. We've done golf videos in the past. Plan on doing much more of those this summer and once it gets. I mean it's. It's 90 degrees where I'm at but I have some big ideas and it's just about doing them. But yeah, I mean I, I have to. You know this sounds cheesy but like you there's a strong balance of like this is the main thing and this is what pays the bills and why we're in business. So I take so much energy doing this and listen, I don't act like I'm digging ditches here. I'm not acting like it's physically demanding, but mentally, I do spend a lot of time and energy in this, and it actually is much more time consuming in the off season because there's not as much going on. But, you know, we plan on doing some interview stuff. I don't, I don't do many interviews. I mean, as you guys know, this is not like an interview heavy podcast. This is just me. So we plan on doing some of that stuff, which is, which is a little different, which we've done in the past. But, yeah, expanding content. We're always. I mean, any ideas is the best part about the Internet. Do whatever we want. This is not, you know, corporate America here. We can do whatever, whenever, at any moment. Right. As long as I'm taking care of our business partners so that there aren't any restrictions. And we just keep. We just keep firing. Assuming they couldn't jam you on the line if you had to get open and catch a pass, which one of these three corners would you want to try to go against? Sauce Gardner, Derek Stingley, or Trent McDuffie? Thanks. I would love to play golf with Sauce. That guy is a junkie. I. Sauce has really grown on me. You know, I. I just see his love of golf. He's a junkie, and so I appreciate him, his game. On the other hand, it's. I think it's pretty hard to just be a full press, super physical corner in this day and age because one, so many wide receivers are really fast. So if the referees aren't allowing you to just maul them at the line and you aren't like, Derek Stingley is an elite athlete. Like, his strength of his game is going to be just to say in your hip pocket. McDuffie is just an all around, really good player. Also a solid athlete. You know, Sauce against me, like, could I get. I couldn't get open on any of these people. I appreciate these questions. I think in a weird way, you were almost underestimating even, I think, Sauce, if I had to pick these three guys, like, who do I want on my team? I would go Stingley, McDuffie, Sauce. But I mean, Sauce's first two years he was an All Pro in the NFL. So I mean, very high standards for these three cats. And Stingley had obviously a breakout season. But nobody, and I mean nobody who is not like a Division 1 wide receiver is getting open on any of these guys regardless of a jam. Sauce, relative to like Justin Jefferson or Jamar Chase or, you know, you name some of the best receivers in the league. A.J. brown. Yeah, it's going to be Devontae Smith. Going to be difficult against me. Against you? Against normal people, you would have not a shot on God's green earth to get an ounce of space. But if my life depended on it, you'd have to choose Sauce because he's the least of the three. I would say fluid athlete. You would have. And I mean no chance and I mean absolutely zero negative nilch against Derek Stingley. His ability and athletic ability. It's like, it's like prime Russell Westbrook or something. I have a question pertaining to the popularity of baseball. Why is it that people are saying it's dying boring sport in comparison to football? I live in Washington and went to my first Mariner game last night in like 10 years. I was expecting it to be low attendance and low energy, yet there was like 30,000 people and a shitload of energy, which was surprising because it was Tuesday night against the Astros. Not to mention we suck right now. Just curious. The stigma I think that's really driven is one the television. The explosion of television sports talk, which, you know, Collins, obviously his show is. He does. I mean, his podcast, what we do on the Volume is obviously different from what they do at the Herd, which is a television show. First take those type. Things are basically driven all by football and then the NBA. Like, I think that baseball has got lost in that world. And then in the podcast world, all the big podcasts don't really talk about baseball. Obviously there are some baseball podcasts, but like big quote unquote sports podcasts are just not talking any baseball until the playoffs. So when that happens, there becomes a stigma that it just is kind of irrelevant. Where I'd argue the NBA and is this someone that just went to a game? You turn on these television shows. No one is. It's pretty rare that like you're really breaking down a game like you would in football. It's talking like, where is Jokic going to demand a trade to now? No one gets a bigger hard on than basketball people when a disaster happens with a franchise and they have a star player, like, is this guy going to demand a trade? That's immediate conversation. Where is Jokic going to go? It's like his coach got fired two minutes ago and now he's going to ask for a trade. But that's the conversation. And that to me drives basketball talk and baseball talk. It just doesn't exist. I also think most of these people aren't watching games anymore. So you just talk about what you watch. And I think a lot of people in the space of talking about just general sports don't watch any baseball. They basically have to go all in on football. And you know, from, for me, for example, like, I don't really even talk. Like I used to just do a general radio show before I got into podcasting. And then all I got into football and it got so big it's like, why don't I just talk more football? And we started doing a football show basically every day. And the reason I do golf is it's a little bit of a passion project slash, like, you know, for business opportunities. But it's because I watch, you know, it wasn't someone's like, you should do that. It's like, no, I'm just going to do that because I watch, I don't really watch other sports unless it's like March Madness or maybe the NBA playoffs or the baseball playoffs. I do, I watch those type things when I feel like a lot of consumers are. And I think that's where a lot of people have kind of turned when it came to, you know, when it came to talking about baseball. And I think the ratings reflected that in terms of those shows. Now locally, you know, you think the Yankees kind of matter in New York or the Dodgers matter in la. It's if the Giants are good, they, I know they really matter in San Francisco, Philly. I mean the big markets are, you know, Chicago, the Cubs. Yeah, I think baseball has become a very localized sport, but it's become very, very lucrative. I mean these guys are making the top players 500 to 700 hundred million dollars. Now it's over like 25 year contracts, but still any buzz on Gavin Bartholomew, Pit tight end, small town kid who grew up in my hometown, went to high school, super nice high character, dude. I saw him run the 40 in the low four sevens. I was just wondering if you've heard his name being brought up. I have not. Sometimes, you know, I'm not, I'm not in the weeds as much. And one thing I learned doing this is like the difference when you work in football and you're really close to it, you're so, you're just nerding out on all these players and you're just so in on the fifth, sixth, seventh round picks. And then once you get doing my job and you realize that when you're in it, but you don't have a choice because you still got to write these guys up and follow their careers. Half the people that. And you know this, whoever your team is, it's like it's. You get excited about third round pick, a fourth round pick, and then all of a sudden they are not playing at all come the fall and two undrafted free agents are in their spots. It's like, I've seen it so many times is like you get so excited on about guys on the second and third day and you just. The guy you get really excited about turns out to be the one that isn't as good as the guy that no one talked about in the fifth round, who becomes like an All Pro by his third year. And I just think the draft is such a crapshoot, especially this upcoming draft. Like no one seems to know how it's going to shake out. I recently saw a post joking about predicting the Luck Belichick rivalry, being that Stanford and UNC in both being ACC opponents would be absolutely insane to tell someone in 2018. Do you have any wild card predictions of college or NFL guys switching like this? Do you think stuff like this will happen in a few years with the landscape of both leaks? Totally agree. One thing that has changed in college football is one these GM's jobs didn't exist. And to the amount of money these programs can pay. Belichick makes $10 million and he's not even. He's kind of like got a discount. He's paying like four guys on his staff seven figures and that includes his gm, Mike Lombardi. Well, these GM jobs didn't exist. So I think we're gonna. I just saw Jim Nagy, who ran the Senior bowl, who is a longtime scout, is now the GM of the the Oklahoma Sooners. And the guy who just got hired to run the Senior bowl had previously been the GM of like Auburn and, I don't know, some other major program. And these guys are making so much money that these jobs didn't exist. So I think we're going to see more and more that if I would have told you five years ago that the Colorado Buffaloes are going to be coached by Deion Sanders as the head coach with Pat Shermer as the offensive coordinator, Marshall Falk as the running back coach, and Warren Sapp as the defensive line coach, you'd be like, what are you talking about? And that's something that's actually happening. So one thing we've learned now long enough in, in sports, but specifically with this explosion in college football, you never know. And we've seen it occasionally back in the day, right Saban just left the Dolphins to go back to or not to back, but to Bama. Petrino left on the Falcons when Vic got arrested and he went to. Was it Arkansas or Louisville? I forget Petrino. Crazy cat, but good offensive coach. It was pretty jarring when that happens. Now if you told me that someone got fired this offseason. I mean, Ron Rivera is the GM of Cal. Ron Rivera was the head coach of the Washington football team like 18 months ago. I just think it's really, really hard to predict. The Belichick thing is, is crazy. But part of that is I think he clearly knew that he wasn't going to get a job or didn't want any of the jobs that people would even been interested in hiring him. Where do you rank Sirianni? This is David from Georgia. Where do you rank Sirianni among the best coaches in the NFL? Just curious. Hopefully you see this and I look forward to the answer soon. It's a great question. Anything I say is going to sound like I'm a hater or talking shit when he's a Super bowl champ. So there's a short list of human beings that can say I was a head coach for a team that won a Super Bowl. There's probably even a shorter list of guys that say I'm a head coach that went to multiple Super Bowls. Think about this. Pete Carroll, who's a legendary coach, who is a should be a first ballot hall of Famer. And if you combine like basketball does, pro and college, he's had one of the most legendary coaching careers. He's been a head coach for the jets, the Patriots, Seattle, the Trojans and the Raiders. He's been a head coach of five different places. They're all pretty important. And he's been to two Super Bowls total. And Sirianni has also been a two in three years. So it's like Sirianni and Pete Carroll have the same super bowl resume. They're one and one. Think about that. But if you told me I was the GM and all the coaches were free, right? All 32 and assistants, I could hire whoever I wanted in the pros, not college. Like I had to hire. We're playing NFL football. Hire. I don't think he goes that high now. I don't think he goes like 28. But who, who are you taking him over? Like, think about this. He's had more success than Dan Campbell. But if all things were equal, like, you don't get Howie Roseman. Howie, it's not a package deal. This isn't Shaq and Kobe, you just get one. You get Sirianna. If you or me or the gm. Are you hiring Sirianni over Dan Campbell because you're not taking over the Harbaugh brothers? I would say that a lot of the offensive guys that call plays, if I'm starting from scratch, like I don't have a $200 million offense. We all have starting from the same point and Howie is not existing. I'm the gm. I would be really inclined to obviously hire. You know, clearly people would take Andy Reid over Sirianni, but would be to hire the coaches that can also call the place. So it's weird. It's like what he did is impressive, but it does feel like an organizational thing, which again, if you're him, who gives a Now where it does matter is where's his contract? He's mentioning, does Jeffrey Lurie believe in him? Because if he does, he should give him four years, $60 million, $15 million a year or something extension. Shouldn't that already be done by now? And maybe it gets done, but is Jeffrey Lurie giving him that? Because I saw a headline recently like it's going to happen and again, I feel like a hater. The guy won the super bowl, so who cares if you're him? But no one's going to consider him near the top. I just, I don't think much changes because Jalen hurts and that defense dominated the Chiefs. I'm currently a senior in college and graduating in a month with a degree in marketing. Congratulations. I've been wanting to get into sports media and especially the football world for a while now. I make content and write my own stories for my team, the Denver Broncos. I've had an intro call with espn, but doesn't seem like anything is going to come from it. Just hoping you could provide me some career advice. In pursuing this career, I make content and write my own stories. I think you just keep doing that until something breaks like this, what you are, the world you're playing in. People my age, it didn't even exist. So we would have no choice but to keep contacting people because you couldn't just create your own stuff. And I think the power of any content you're creating, like I would quadruple down on that. If you have time and then just be. You got to be guerrilla warfare, reaching out to people, emailing people, DMing, doing whatever it takes. Because in a weird way, being a young guy out of college, like you need them, they don't need you. But once you're there, maybe they realize they really needed you, but there's no way for you to convince them that they need you without complete guerrilla warfare just to get on their radar. So I, you know, I can't speak. I've never worked at ESPN or any of these Fox. But you just got to be relentless in your pursuit, and eventually, you know, ideally, something will break. And while you're relentless in your pursuit, you can create your own stuff. Question for the pod. Will we see a coach get fired like Mike Malone in the NFL? Someone who's won at the highest level and continues to win, but has lost the locker room and is a few games away from the playoffs? I just, I have a hard time seeing it, you know, with three games left or whatever a week left in the season, it would probably be the equivalent of a team, I don't know, maybe 10 and 10 and five that has a playoff berth locked up firing their coach with two weeks because they were 10 and three and lost two games. I just. Now, here's the thing. In the NBA, you think they fire him without Nicola, as Michael Malone called him, saying, I want him to stay. Because if Jokic wanted him to say, what do you think happens? He's not fired. We're in football. You're not exactly pulling the locker room, though sometimes it happens. Jeffrey Lurie famously did with Chip Kelly, dragged him out of the building. Mark Davis did it with Josh McDaniels. Fired him on Halloween. So it can happen, but usually it's a firing at it. I don't want to say out of nowhere, but during the season is typically with bad teams, but it usually happens because either the owners turned on you or the players have turned on you and they've gone to the owner. In basketball, that's the only way it happens. No one gets fired in the NBA at the highest level that have star player on the team without you going through the star player. It's the way it works.
- [52:00]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [52:06]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [52:09]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [52:17]
John Middlekauff
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [52:19]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the middle.
- [52:24]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me. Jeremy.
- [52:25]
Jeremy Hobson
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the middle.
- [52:27]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [52:28]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [52:33]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia, and.
- [52:36]
Jeremy Hobson
When you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [52:45]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [52:53]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [52:59]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101 free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [53:35]
John Middlekauff
The question I have for the Mailbag is regarding the Chargers. With it seeming likely that we will look to take a tight end, either Warren or Loveland. You see it worth them trading back in the late first round and getting a defensive tackle to replace Ford who they lost in free agency, or Abuka out of Ohio State so you can give Herbert another weapon in the past game to go with McConkey. Both were huge pains in the butt for Harbaugh at Michigan to deal with. Harmon was at Michigan State before transferring. Plus I think the biggest strength is Harbaugh being a recent out of college game is being able to identify the higher end talent. If so, would multiple twos and a fourth to potential third be worth it? So if so, would multiple twos and a fourth? I think you just rely on Harbaugh's knowledge. I think I got water all over me of the draft in terms of like knowing these players really well and I'm not opposed to trading up if I'm a team like the Chargers in the second round. But I'm also not blowing all my draft capital for one individual player. Like we're not a player away, we're four or five. I mean really competing in the afc. Like really we're a player away from being a little bit better, but we're three or four high end starters away from competing for a Super Bowl. And I think sometimes when you make the move to Trade up and you get rid of future picks. It can limit your ability. Harbaugh knows all these guys. He's recruited them all. He's been in their living rooms. He's coached or coached against a lot of them because like you said, Ohio State, but other guys in the Big Ten, Penn State guys, you know, there's a lot of good players from the Big Ten and they've played, you know, Alabama last year. They've played in bowl games in previous years. Like, he just knows this landscape really, really well. So I, I would have a hard time unless it was just a can't miss thing. Okay, a couple more. Do you think Jaden Daniels will have a sophomore slump as the media saying who, who's saying that? I, I haven't seen anyone saying that. But I thought cj, I, I, I sprinkled a little money on the Texans to be the number one seed. I thought they had added to their defense. I thought C.J. was just a star. And then all of a sudden the offensive line is terrible and they don't. So you can never predict these things. It's the thing about sports, it's just such a. On the fly, fluid reality show, you can take educated guesses. Like, the only thing we know is Chiefs are gonna be good, Eagles be okay. But a lot of who knows? Rams price start slow. Longtime listener. Love the show. I was listening to your podcast Thursday that aired Friday. I'm a big movie watcher and I listened to your segment about Val Kilmer. Mark Wahlberg was the star of Boogie Nights. Val's big role was as Jim Morrison in the movie the Doors. I felt was his best performance. Yeah, I think the porn movie that I talked about with Val Kilmer was not Boogie Nights. It was called Wonderland. I mean, Boogie Nights was a major hit. Wonderland was not. And he played like Wahlberg played fictional character, to my knowledge. Right. Dirk Diggler was not an actual porn star. Val Kilmer in the movie, I think it was like O2 or 01 played John Holmes, who was a legitimate porn star, I think, in like the 80s or 90s. So if I said Boogie Nights, I didn't mean that I was talking about a different movie, but I enjoyed the movie. Val Kilmer did. Obviously it's not Boogie Nights, but it was good, I reckon. I think it's called Wonderland. I think again, I looked it up a couple weeks ago. It's success. I don't think it was a successful movie. I don't even think a lot of people saw it. I don't even Know how I ended up seeing it? I just remember watching it and liking it. But I listened to. I've listened to a lot of Val Kilmer content. And I do think what made him, you know, such a big star. Not like Arnold Schwarzenegger or Sylvester Stallone or Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks, some of the other people during his era, but, I mean, he was pretty famous. I mean, he had starring roles with Tom Cruise with De Niro, and Pacino with Kurt Douglas. I mean, he's. He had some huge, huge movies, but he was always like the number two. He's just like one of the truly great. And listen, not everyone can be Michael Jordan or Steph Curry. Like, being Scottie Pippen or Klay Thompson is a pretty good living. You become pretty legendary. And I think that, like, in terms of movies, that's kind of what he was like. He wasn't the star quarterback, but he was like the hall of Fame tight end or like the hall of Fame guard. Right? Just. It doesn't get any better than having that guy on your team. But he couldn't carry your team, but you wanted him on your team. And then I was listening to Simmons, did like a long pot on him. I guess. He. He was pretty difficult to work with in his prime. And Kyle Brandt on that podcast of Good Morning Football had a good point, and I completely agree with him. It's like, I kind of miss the days when just some stars. And this is why Aaron Rodgers is good for business. Not everyone can be the same. The problem with, like the PGA Tour, once Liv took all the bad boys, all your guys are kind of boring. Like, I like some guys to be wild card human beings. It's what makes Hollywood great. Like, not everyone's a straight arrow. Some of these guys are batshit crazy egomaniacs. Don't listen to anybody, got drug problems. The NBA used to be full. The NBA I grew up on in the 90s, I was like, we were talking about this. Last night was full of complete nut jobs. I mean, people just doing crazy things on and off the court. And the league benefited from that. The NFL has always had that. Hollywood kind of feels boring now. Like, I need a little bit more. Like, don't know what's going to happen here. Like, you know who's good for business? Mike Tyson. Because you got no clue what is coming. And then you think like, okay, he's going to knock Jake Paul out. And then it's like, no, he actually can't move. But it was so Mike Tyson, so crazy. You just assumed. And I kind of did too. They're like, yeah, I can see him knocking him out. And then you're like five minutes into the fight as it's trying to stream, you're like, he's got no shot. And if, if, if it is true that Val Kilmer was really difficult to work with, I, I miss some of just stars, whether it's athletes, whether it's musicians. I mean, think about how many musicians, some of the stories that are famous of guys just like burning down a hotel room or just doing things that, you know, Ozzy Osbourne, like blowing a line of fire ants, biting off birds heads. Kind of miss those days of just no clue what's happening with just superstars in whatever entertainment industry. Feels like we've kind of gotten boring that way, which is understandable. There is more money than ever on the line for all these human beings. So it's like be on your best behavior. Be on your best behavior is kind of boring entertainment. So if Val Kilmer truly was rip a wild card to deal with, like, he was clearly pretty talented, now what was he? A star like Scottie Pippen, Jordan Disappear like Bulls won't win the title. Could Val Kilmer carry the movie as the star? Probably not. It's not really his thing. It's definitely not what he excelled at. Now maybe he'd say I never got the right role and maybe that's true. But you, you could argue he is definitely of his era, the greatest supporting actor. And honestly, it might not even be close. It might not even be close. He's kind of like the Scottie Pippen of Hollywood in the 90s, the volume.
- [61:56]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [62:26]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101 free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.