← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - What's next for the Giants, NIL has ruined the NCAA Tournament, JJ Watt to call games
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- [00:00]
John Middlekauff
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Jeremy Hobson
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John Middlekauff
It's free.
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Jeremy Hobson
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George M. Johnson
Oh oh oh.
- [01:18]
Bob Pittman
O'Reilly Auto Parts we live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:54]
John Middlekauff
The volume what is going on everybody? How are we doing? John Middlekoff 3Now podcast hopefully everyone is having a great day out there on the mean streets of life in the real world. It is Wednesday afternoon. I thought I'd record a little podcast and the aftermath of the Russell Wilson signing. What that means. You know I've had about 24 hours to think about it, what it means for the Giants, the Draft, the Raiders. The Raiders. Are they in play for Shador now? So a lot going on there. Couple things when it comes to we got the sweet 16 starting today so I do you know nil and the transfer portal has been such a hot topic because of the Cinderella dead. We saw it in college football as a little guy screwed. I do want to dive into that and just the importance, you know Dan Hurley's getting crushed. And sometimes when coaches go nuts, everyone piles on. But I do think I do want to dive into something that's important in college athletics, specifically with basketball and football with their coaches. And then there was news today that J.J. watt will now have the number two seat as an analyst at CBS. So he's going to be calling a lot of games. We're going to be watching this fall and want to dive into old jj Leaving, leaving the line of scrimmage to put on a blazer and a microphone. And then of course, we'll do a little mailbag at John Middlekopf is the Instagram fire in those DMS and get your questions answered here on the podcast. Subscribe to the podcast. If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out Spotify. I think that's, I think a lot of you guys list on Spotify. Seeing the metrics kind of blown up. I actually just subscribed. I've always been an Apple podcast guy, but maybe I'll transition. So Spotify, Apple, wherever you may listen. YouTube. We are, we are very active on YouTube. So go check. Subscribe to that page as well. And buckle up because Fugazi Friday is tomorrow and I've had a full week of podcasts. So if you missed any, we got a lot of content out there for you and let's dive in the show. But before we dive into some football, you know, I got to tell you about my friends, my partners and the official ticketing app of this podcast. Here's the thing, I didn't even realize this. You never know with baseball, like with football, you know, for two months, exactly what time who is playing on that opening Thursday night. Now we got the International Friday night. You are just hit over the head with it, right? And same thing with college football. It's like, we're going to Ireland. Get your tickets. Baseball just kind of comes out of nowhere. It's like, wait, they, they've already played some games and then opening days tomorrow, it's like, it's hard to. But luckily they play every day for like seven straight months. So if you want to go to a game, if you want to go to a playoff game, for basketball, for hockey, if you can make it to the final Four, if you want to go to any big event, concert as well, comedy show, you name it, I got you covered. Game time. Best ticketing app I've ever used. Like I said, I'm not just saying this. I've lived it. I've gone to more events over the last two and a half years than I have the majority of my podcast career. Because most of my podcast career, unlike my radio career, has been I'm just reacting off television. Haven't gone to as many games, haven't gone to as many events. That is not the case. Once game time got involved, got out of the house, just enjoyed myself, did it for fun and cannot recommend it enough for you guys. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use the code JOHN for $20 off your first purchase Terms apply again, create an account and redeem the code John for $20 off down the Gametime app today, last minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. You know, it happens every single year, and I am guilty as anybody out there is when a signing happens, when a lot of money gets thrown at a player in free agency, because free agency typically is somewhere in the middle of March and obviously the draft is not for another month and a half later, is that we all make plans for that given team because of that signing and what they will and will not do. Even though we learn, if not every year, every other year, that early in a draft, the impact of those signings tend not to have as big of like financial implications on who they're actually going to select. I mean, they have financial implications on your cap and how much money your owner has to spend, but of the decision ultimately your gm, your head coach, and your owner is going to green light. And we just saw it last year when Kirk Cousins got that enormous contract from the Atlanta Falcons. There was not a human being alive outside of that Atlanta Falcons building that ever once uttered the words of, yeah, they're going to take a quarterback. Not one. It's why, honestly, when that draft pick happened, it's still one of the more shocking things that we've seen in recent memory. And a large reason for that was, wait, you just guaranteed them, no matter what, $90 million. And after a couple weeks ago, they've paid him now $100 million over the course of 12 months. Right. And that's what he's going to make, no matter what, $100 million. So I, I think we got to be very careful of putting the pieces of the puzzle together just based on what happens in free agency, because it doesn't tell you that much. You know, sometimes in life, like if she doesn't text you back for three or four days, guess what? She's probably not into you. If you have to call someone constantly and, and text them Constantly and email them for money they owe you and they will not return any of your messages or calls. Guess what? You're probably not getting that money. And if you really want it, you're going to have to be willing to go to court. Because guess what? The biggest lie that's ever been told in American history is the checks in the mail. So you can put pieces together with a lot of things in life. I think with football we have to be very careful of the New York Giants have signed Russell Wilson to what, ten and a half million dollars guaranteed. Now they're not going to take a quarterback. Now who knows, maybe they were never that enthralled with any of these quarterbacks in this draft would pick number three. That is very possible, right? We learned last year because of hard knocks. They were very into Jaden Daniels and Drake May. They had no opportunity to draft either. Why? Because those teams weren't going to do a deal with them. Right? But we have no clue as we sit here on as I'm recording this on March 26th whether they even like Shador Sanders, whether they think he can be a starting quarterback for them. I assume that and I think a lot of people do, but we don't know. Who knows, maybe Brian Dayball's favorite player in this draft is Will Howard or Riley Leonard. And his gm, which we're not quite sure quite understands or is good at his job, keeps telling him, bro, we can get this guy in the third round. Let's just take another player there. So when you look at that move, if you just want to go off the assumption, which I think is very dangerous, okay, they're not going to take a quarterback that they end up taking because he falls right in their lap. Travis Hunter, who I think it's fair to say even with Abdul Carter, who I think everyone would agree quarterback is a more valuable position. But the best two players in this draft are Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter. And I also think it's fair to say that Travis Hunter is the best pure player in this draft, right? If positions, if everything was equal, he would be the number one pick without hesitation and Abdul Carter would easily be the number two overall pick. But think about the owner when he was sitting there with Joe Shane and he looked and he said about Saquon Barkley and it's funny, everyone pushed back on this. Like why is he talking about the business angle of Saquon Barkley? Because he can't imagine his best player, who's his most talented player by a country mile going to a Division rival who is actually good and then playing well. And what happened, it was even way worse than that. He had one of the greatest seasons in the history of the league. So it was a double whammy. The Giants sucked and they lost their number one, I would say, you know, jersey seller and most important player with the fans. Like, if you're going to suck, at least have a couple important players. Ask the Detroit lions in the 90s. Yeah, wasn't a great decade, but we had Barry freaking Sanders. So if you're John and you go like, you got to be pretty realistic. You've won some Super Bowls, you've had some good teams, you had some bad teams, you got to kind of acknowledge like, listen, our quarterback situation, Russell Wilson, Jameis, even if we draft some rookie, whether at three or whether in the second or third round, is by far the worst in our division. It's not even really close, right? I mean, even if we just assume, even if I go, hey, Jaden Daniels, Jalen Hurts and Dak Prescott, they're both going to miss or all three of them are going to miss a couple games. So the amount of starts those three guys are going to make are 14 or 15 starts throughout the 17 game season. You still wouldn't hesitate to take all those guys like the Giants, I would argue their quarterback room currently right now, as we sit, you know, a month before the draft is bottom two or three in the NFL, like Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston, both of them are bottom, I don't know, six, seven quarterbacks. As, you know, 32 starters in the NFL. You could argue James would be one of the worst. And Russell's somewhere probably between 22 and 25. So when you combine those guys, it's not like you get some dynamic player. Russell's pretty meh. And Jameis has, I would say, a more. He can be a more explosive player, I feel like. But he also throws a ton of turnovers, kind of interceptions. I mean, he had 12 picks last year. Like, he will throw the ball to the other team, but he also has some moments where you're like, God, is he a top 10 quarterback? Like Russell no longer has that. And I think when you look at the money that they spent on these two guys, it shows you they basically combine two humans to equal a bridge quarterback. Because who knows, Russell was a little more expensive, but combined they make a little under $15 million. Last year, Gardner Minshew got $15 million. But if I was John Mara, it's like, okay, if we're not going to Take Shador, let's take Travis. And all of a sudden we got a couple really young, dynamic players that whether this season goes really poorly and I got to fire some people. I do have some building blocks with these two players. And the betting odds have now shifted to looking like Travis Hunter is going to be the number three overall pick. And some people thought that, like, oh, they got signals that the Cleveland Browns are going to take Shador Sanders. It's like, you think Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Barry are getting on the horn with Dable and Shane and telling them their plans, like, give me a break. That's not why they made the decision. I think it's pretty clear they have no shot at Aaron Rodgers. You have to have a contingency plan like. And I would recommend that to any human in life. It helps, you know, to have some different avenues to fall back on if something doesn't work. Obviously, just having Jameis Winston is not good enough. And they told you that by what they paid him. They paid him $4 million guaranteed in two years. $8 million. Like that is the ultimate backup quarterback contract. And honestly, it's a tradable contract. So if they end up drafting a quarterback and they go, you know what, we'll go with Russell and Jackson Dart or Will Howard or whoever. I'm just throwing out random Kyle McCord. You could probably trade Jameis Winston or keep all three of them just because how poor and bad their quarterback room has been these last couple years. It's been a complete embarrassment. I also think this would bring into play and who knows, you know, Spy Tech has a lot of different experience, a lot of different quarterbacks. But Pete Carroll once upon a time signed Matt Flynn to a contract and then drafted in the third round Russell Wilson and had an open competition because Pete's whole thing is compete, compete, compete. Well, Tom Brady and Shadore Sanders have been friends and close now for years. Shador Sanders has been pretty outspoken about, like, his interest in being on the Raiders. Now, that doesn't matter. Anything coming from the player like it matters ultimately what Pete, what Spy Tech, what Brady and Mark Davis and the operation want to do. But if you tell me that Shador Sanders, the Giants are not going to take them. And if we assume Adam Schefter said today on espn, like, Abdul Carter is going to be the picket, too. So if you go, Cam Ward, Abdul Carter, let's give the, you know, the Giants, Travis Hunter, will you go? The New England Patriots aren't taking Shador Sanders at 4. We know the Jacksonville Jags just gave their quarterback $200 million. They are definitely not taking Sanders at 5. He would be in the heavy discussion to be drafted right there. And honestly, like, from his skill set, not the greatest arm. He probably makes more sense playing in a dome than he would outdoors in Cleveland or outdoors in New York. If I was Shador or if I was advising him, I'd be like, long term, big picture. I think we might be better. Better off being playing in a controlled environment, you know, in Vegas. Plus having a proponent, Tom Brady, who now owns the team, who is extremely close with you and your family, who's not going anywhere. I mean, the one thing about being drafted, we get this question a lot that, you know, some of these guys that get drafted really high, part of the reason everything fails is because you go to terrible teams. The Jacksonville Jags, it feels like draft really high every single year. Why they're a terrible organization for whatever reason. Post Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning, the Giants have been a fucking mess. And they draft high all the time. And they run through coaches like Leo runs through girlfriends. And you see some of these organizations, it's like, when you go there, it's very, very hard to overcome the dysfunction. I don't care who you are. There are only so many people in the history of this sport that are like Peyton Manning that probably would have overcome absolutely anything because he basically can just turn into his own coordinator. But, like, looking back, like, what did he really have to overcome in Indy? His general manager is a Hall of Famer. Say what you want. Like, they. Their defense was hit or miss at different times during his career. They did a hell of a job of getting him skill guys, like, they were pretty good at that with, you know, in Indianapolis. So some of these players, like, if you tell me who's the best player at quarterback in this draft, there's a very decent chance it happens. Like, you know the guy the Rams took in the second round. Why? Because you get the Rams and McVay and less need infrastructure. Guess what? They're going nowhere. You think it's just random that Brock Purdy, Mr. Irrelevant, hit? Of course not. He got to go to the 49ers, a team that had established star players and. And a star head coach who's also the play caller. You think if Brock Purdy had just gone to some crappy team, he looks the same? Of course not, because that's not usually the way it works. So sometimes falling in the draft can actually financially benefit you. Big picture, like, would, is there any Chance Lamar could have busted, probably not. He's just too talented. But I do think it's fair to say that, that his career, he dramatically benefited and so did they. But I'm just saying, like the course of his stardom and becoming like, guy's going to go to the hall of Fame and he's going to be considered not just one of the best players of his generation, but like I would say one of the most unique players in the history of the league who gets to win every single year. Now, the playoffs is, you know, a hump they have to get over. But like getting drafted by the Ravens at pick 32, Baker Mayfield went to the Browns. How'd that work out? Sam Darnold, Jets. Obviously not well. A couple years later, starring for the vikings, then gets $100 million from Seattle. It's usually the way it works for a lot of these guys, even the ones that resurrect their career is they got to bounce around. Well, some of these guys, you know, Patrick Mahomes, it's like, God, the Bears should have drafted him instead of Trubisky. Well, thank God for Mahomes. They did not because he got to go to the Chiefs. And Andy Reid, right? Josh Allen, well, thank God if you're him, the, the Browns and the jets did not select you and you fall to seven and Brandon Bean and Sean McDermott trade up to draft you changed your life. Obviously it takes two to tango. Like, Josh Allen is bringing a lot to the table too. But do you think Josh Allen turns into Josh Allen if he's with Cleveland, if he's with the jets, no chance. It doesn't mean that ultimately he wouldn't have figured out and become a stud. But there is no way these guys careers look the way they do without going to where they ended up going. Instability. Knowing the people that do that know what they're doing, you know, what's lucky, like the biggest difference, Obviously, you know, if you're a pro athlete, you know, getting drafted higher means more money. But you know, really the majority of money these guys make is in their second and third contracts. Like, the reason Josh Allen is going to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars is not that rookie contract. Not saying that it's not great and that I'd consider that generational money. You sign a contract for 28, $30 million guaranteed, if you're not a buffoon like you turn that into generational money. But the reason Josh Allen is never going to think twice about buying anything the rest of his life is because of the last two contracts he signed. And I think if you can think big picture, which it's very hard as a young person, it's very hard as an agent. Like, that's the one thing NBA people are pretty good about. Like, you hear all these players because their agents are telling them, second contract, second contract, second contract in football. And part of it is the nature of the beast. How fast you can get hurt, how quick things change. You know, the league stands for not for long. That there are a lot more variables working against players. One, it's just, you know, the likelihood of a guy hitting is low. But we don't talk a lot about the second contract. So I get in the league, just figure out how to play and just try to become a good player. And then like three or four years in, then we start talking about it. But for the most part, you know, you would rather slip four or five spots, right? Like if you're a guy, it's like, well, you could go to the Jags at 5. Well, would you be better off falling to like 11 and going to play for Kyle Shanahan and the Niners? What do you think the answer is? Now, it's going to cost you some money, but for the health and the long term future of your career. Like if you're, if you're Mason Graham, the defensive tackle from Michigan, or Will Howard, I'm just choosing some random guys. Or Jalen Walker, the pass rusher from Georgia. Would you rather go 5 overall to Jacksonville or would you rather end up playing for the 49ers? Hell, even the Dallas Cowboys. Like, the Dallas Cowboys are 12. Say what you want about the Dallas Cowboys, they might let you down in the playoffs. They've been pretty good in the regular season over the course of the last decade. And if you're good, they pay you a shitload of money on your second contract and you end up making more because you're playing for them. Like, I know this. Of all the teams drafting high, I would like refuse to go to the Jacksonville Jacks. Not because I don't like Tony Bacelli. Seems like a great guy, the young GM with great hair. I'm sure he's smart. Liam Cohen said duvall is pretty funny, but that is a place where careers go to die. 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- [23:44]
Bob Pittman
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [23:49]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother. I'm a grandmother.
- [23:52]
Bob Pittman
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast Middle into the national conversation.
- [24:00]
Jeremy Hobson
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [24:03]
Bob Pittman
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [24:07]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [24:08]
Jeremy Hobson
Jeremy.
- [24:08]
Bob Pittman
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [24:10]
Jeremy Hobson
Thanks for having me.
- [24:11]
Bob Pittman
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [24:16]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [24:18]
Jeremy Hobson
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [24:20]
Bob Pittman
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [24:28]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary? And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [24:36]
Bob Pittman
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:42]
Jeremy Hobson
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elfman Beauty, Tarang Amin.
- [25:08]
John Middlekauff
The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.
- [25:13]
Jeremy Hobson
I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.
- [25:17]
John Middlekauff
I wanted a way to do something.
- [25:19]
Kira K. Dixon
That I loved for the rest of my life.
- [25:21]
Jeremy Hobson
We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times, like Stefan Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to frame by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [25:52]
George M. Johnson
We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight. Is that what I thought it was? Oh, this is fighting worse. Okay, I put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best selling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back and that's what we are doing. On Fighting Words. We're not going to let anyone silence us.
- [26:18]
John Middlekauff
That's the reason why they're banning books like yours, George. That's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of black history or queer history, any history that challenges the.
- [26:26]
George M. Johnson
Whitewashed norm or put us in a box. Black people have never ever depended on the so called mainstream to support us. That's why we are great. We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [26:53]
John Middlekauff
I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, one hot topic right now is, you know, I think seven of the 16 teams in the, in the Sweet 16 or the SEC, I think I heard someone between the Big 10, the SEC and the Big 12. Fifteen of the 16 teams are teams from those conferences. And then Duke and it's like, well, the death of the little guy. And a lot of it revolves around NIL and we've talked a lot about this in football. Nil, nil, nil. I talked to someone in the business and it's been reported on. It's just, it's hard for me to follow. But it looks like over the course of the next 12 ish months there will be some consistent revenue sharing when it comes to the Power 4 programs. You will have a salary cap. I'll just pick a number, $20 million. And Georgia will have the same salary cap as Minnesota, will have the same salary cap as Washington, as Texas Tech, and you just have to allocate who you pay. Now, the NIL will still exist. I mean, technically it exists in the NFL, right? There's a salary cap and then there's the nil. But the teams don't deal with the nil. All State does. Game time, you know, whoever, whoever your big sponsor is, pays the players on the side and that's, that's out of the team's hands, basically. They just have to take care of your salary. Like the teams we all know, the NIL and the shadiness is still going to exist in college. If you don't think it will, you're extremely naive. But I do think when you look at the reason that all these teams the last couple years, the little guy's fucked. And I think when you look at the power or the playoffs in college football in the final 12, it's going to consistently be the same teams and the same group of, let's say, I don't know, 15, 18 teams year after year after year. The only reason they allowed Boise that represented the non power four to be in the playoffs, the highest rated non power four team moving forward is so they didn't get sued. They actually don't want that team there. But it's always going to be Ohio State, Michigan, Bama, lsu, Georgia, Texas, Right. Oregon, Washington, sc. It's going to be the same group of teams with the occasional random from one of those conferences, like this year asu, next year could be Oklahoma State. But whatever, they're going to keep it in the family. And the reason is when I was, I'll never forget, I had been at Fresno State for a couple months. I got there in the summer after I graduated from school and then basically training camp hits and boom, we're just playing the season. And I remember thinking it was so cool going to meetings and just like, God, I kind of made it like, this is badass. Going from Cal Poly. It felt like I was in the NFL. And either our second game of the season or third game of the season. We were playing ucla. And Pat Hill, the coach then walked into the meeting room. He was, he was really good, I would say, addressing the team and just on Sunday leading, you know, because NFL Sunday is like the, or the college football Sunday is the equivalent of an NFL Sunday or Monday or Tuesday when the, when you address the team about the future opponent and you kind of go over the previous game because you just played on Saturday. And I remember we were about to play ucla, who's. Rick Neuheisel was the coach. And Coach Hill looked at, you know, the entire room and the majority of kids on the team, I would say at that time, probably close to 95 plus percent, maybe like 98, 99% of the kids were from California and probably half the kids on the team were either from Southern California or somewhere in the Central Valley, Fresno South. And he said, raise your hand if UCLA offered you a scholarship. And like Ryan Matthews raised his hand and maybe like one other guy. So in a room full of 100 guys, and at the time we were a top 25 team and like two or three guys raised their hand. And so when you think about these programs, when they're. Even if the NIL didn't exist, what really changed the game is the transfer portal allowed guys to, to switch schools without having to sit out. So like Ash and Genti last year, he's an outlier. When I was at Fresno, Boise State was a power. And by the time Kellen Moore's class of guys were NFL eligible and we're all going to go to the draft, I think 11 or 12 of his senior years starting, 22 got drafted. Well, what are the chances in 2025 that those guys would have lasted that long? They would have been offered scholarships to places they were never offered scholarships to. And let's face it, when Coach Hill goes, how many of you in this room were offered to ucla and only three people had raised their hand. Well, if 50 guys in the room had actually been offered scholarships to ucla, guess what? Those guys wouldn't have been at Fresno State. So I think we talk so much about, oh, they're giving him money to leave. Well, if I'm at Boise State, if I'm at Fresno State, hell, if I'm at Texas Tech or Minnesota and Oklahoma or Texas come calling or Ohio State or Michigan come calling or Oregon or USC come calling, I would have transferred even if they're not paying me, because I would have probably gone to school there if they would have offered me a scholarship out of high school that never existed because it wasn't worth Steph Curry, once he becomes a superstar in college at Davison, to transfer to Duke because he would have had to sit out. Somehow I ended up on Gary Payton's Wikipedia page. For those of you that don't know if you're younger, Gary Payton was like easily one of the biggest stars of the 90s. You probably saw him on the Michael Jordan documentary, made him look kind of bad. But Gary Payton was a badass. He went to Oregon State and while he was at Oregon State, he was like the three time PAC 10 player of the year. By the time he's like a junior, he's a consensus all American. He's one of the best players in the country at Oregon State. So he a lot like Steph Curry. It's clear one of the best players in the country at this little school. Well, in 2025, maybe Gary Payton, because not every guy is mature enough to go play for Nick Saban or John Calipari or Coach K or Kirby Smart. Some guys take a year or two to develop college football or basketball and by the time they're a freshman or a sophomore kind of pops and they look like damn like Ryan Matthews looked like an NFL running back when he was 16 years old. Some guys like Ashton Genti, it takes him a couple years and then by the time you're a sophomore, you're like, holy shit, this guy's one of the best players in the country. It is just very difficult when you're at a smaller place and someone calls you and says, hey, we want you to be the starter at Oregon and you're playing at San Diego State for them not to say, at least be very interested. And then when you factor in the money, it's borderline impossible to say no. I think we have seen two recent examples in Genty and in Drake May that are complete outlier situations for the most part moving forward. When you get guys like at second and third tier programs, get offered by the top 10 programs in the country, they're going to say yes every single time. Because if Drake may, and I think he actually kind of was recruited by Nick Saban out of high school, he's probably a bad example. But Genti definitely had been offered by Texas or Ohio State or Alabama or Georgia at a high school. Guess what? Ashton Genty wouldn't have been at Boise State. And the only difference in basketball is so many of the quote unquote NBA prospects only last a year and maybe two. But if it had been when I was growing up and the guys would legitimately stay two or three years. Anyone at a quote unquote smaller school, that is Gary Payton, Oregon State, it wouldn't have happened. Kawhi Leonard, Paul George at San Diego State and Fresno State would have lasted there six months and they would have been gone. So I think we spend so much time talking about the money and obviously that is what gets the deal done. But the transfer portal up until the last couple years didn't exist like it does now. You can just transfer and play immediately. That's a game changer. One other thing I've seen a lot of people, I don't really care about college basketball. I gamble on it during the, you know, during the tournament, but it's not like I watch it during the season. But you just, you know, I'm on social media enough. I see the big stories and what matters. And obviously like, I'm sure anyone listening to this saw some of the clips of Dan Hurley just, I mean, over the course of the year he's had some comments, called himself the best fucking coach in America and everyone freaked out about that during the season. I think they weren't getting calls. I mean, he did just win back to back national championships. Then he storms off the court this week and he like, Baylor's about to take the court and he says, like, hopefully you guys don't get screwed by the refs. I think he dropped a couple left bombs like we just did. And basically everyone that talks about sports now is calling him a douchebag and saying that he needs to calm down and he's just, he's just a loser essentially. Even though again he's won back to back national championships. If this was the NFL, I would agree. And when Sirianni did some of his stuff a couple years ago, his antics, even this year when he was like screaming at the fans, I think it turned a lot of people off, including myself. And even Sirianni, I think would have to be the first to tell you, like, yeah, it's a bad look. But in college, like your coaches need to be the stars because the players don't stay there that long. Even in football where it's mandated that you stay three years. Think of all these superstar players Nick Saban had over the last 15 plus years. I could probably list 25 first rounders off the top of my head with, with ease. Potentially like 30 or 40. Yet the longest they ever stayed was three seasons. Nick Saban was there 17. Coach K coached for like 40, 50 years. Same thing with Jim Boeheim. The coaches in college sports are your stars in the pros. The differences, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Belichick, Andy Reid, Sean Payton, these guys are really famous and they make a lot of money, but they aren't even remotely close to as famous as these superstar players. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, you name it. Why? Because those players are in the league for 15 years, two decades, a long time. So when you look at college like, I need some big personalities as coaches. That's the way the business works. I'm glad Dan Hurley is a nut job. You know what we need more nut jobs at coach. In football and in basketball, they are the big personalities. So, like, I understand people being turned off by it. I don't really care. But if you don't understand the importance of having some crazies who are great, right? If you're just crazy and not winning, no one cares. This guy just went on one of the greatest two year runs in the history of the sport. And I promise you this, like, they ain't going to be down for long. And here's the other thing. They were toe to toe with Florida that many consider beside Duke, the best team in the tournament. So I like Dan Hurley. I find him enjoyable. Last but not least, CBS made a change. Well, today, Jim Nance, he announced. I just saw the headline. I'm like, whoa, Jim Nance is going to quit the Masters in 2026. I just got out of the steam room. I'm just soaking. There's this chair outside the steam room. I try to sit there for like five minutes with like a little, after a little executive workout and just sweat out on my toxins in the sauna. You know, they say like for big health benefits, you stay in 30 minutes. I mean, once you, once you get to like 15, 16, 17 minutes at 180 degrees, it takes a mental fortitude to last in there. I try to make it like 20. I'm scrolling, not proud, but scrolling. And I see Jim Nance, he's going to retire from calling the Master. So that probably means if he's not calling the Masters, he's definitely not going to be calling NFL games. Like, how much longer? We only got Jim Nance till 2026, and then I did a double take. Jim Nance is going to retire in 2036. So he's given us essentially like 11 year, 10 plus more years of NFL seasons and then one extra master. So we got some time. Jim. Just wanted to let everyone know we got a Decade plus. Then I'm going to retire. Thanks. Thanks, Big Jim. But cbs, let's face it, can be a little stiffer. It's not exactly. I would say Fox is the more risque network, definitely allows you to push a little more, push some envelopes and just feels a little edgier. Cbs when you just, just in terms of their coverage of NFL, of college football, of golf, it's just, it's just a little tighter now. I think as time goes on and management changes, maybe they can loosen up a little bit. But I, I would say definitely it's the conservative side when it comes to sports. And J.J. watt, who I actually think has done an incredible personality pivot over the course of the last five or six years. I remember early on, I remember the part of my take guys used to rip him and it just felt a little douchey. And he's even gone on them and like laughs about it now. And I've seen watch some interviews with him with McAfee. Just seems like he's lightened up a lot and seems like a very enjoyable guy. And I think these jobs and I totally understand CBS, you always got to be every 10, 15, 20 years, kind of got to rotate some new blood in. And lately they've done some of that, right? Getting Matt ryan involved, getting J.J. watt involved. And listen, I totally understand big names and want to get some stardom involved and it's cool you get the number two job at CBS. If you're J.J. watt, you are going to be calling games that millions of people are going to be watching. I mean, you're going to be calling Chiefs games, you're going to be calling Bills games, you're going to be calling Ravens games and Steeler games and Raider Charger games. I mean, you're going to be doing some big games in the afc. So congratulations to him. It's going to be cool. I do think they're. One thing I think we really yearn for in just society now is authenticity. And I do think it has been difficult for some of these. Like, I knew JJ or Drew Brees was going to be bad. I'm like, he's just not going to be able to do it. I don't want to say I saw Brady coming from a mile away, but early on it was clear. Like, it's really hard for him to pivot from like corporate Brady on the camera to like what Brady's like just kind of hanging it. And maybe that's kind of morphed into the same guy, but it's just kind of gone, and it's just kind of weird, you know? And it's very difficult for these guys to kind of be entertainers like John Madden or Jon Gruden because they're just. They're just not. That's not really their thing. But they are so close to so many players because they're recently retired and they know so many coaches is like. They're kind of hesitant to do Detroit Aikman, which I think most of us on the couch when we're watching our team, when we're playing, fantasy, when we're gambling. I mean, a huge reason the NFL is king by a mile is because of the consumer. Like, we get animated and we get worked up. And I've never been like, if a guy fumbles, like, people fumble. If a guy drops the ball, guy drops the ball like, it's. It's football. It's hard. But I think sometimes they're very hesitant to be critical of pretty basic things. It's why I think Troy Aikman is really separated from the pack. I don't know how old Troy is now, but he's been. He's been doing this for multiple decades. And whatever Tony Romo got paid, it clearly lit a fire under his ass, and Troy will just let it rip. And honestly, I think it's very relatable as just like, he's saying what I would be saying on my couch. And I just hope these guys can strike a balance because I think it allows you to be much better when you can just be real about what you're watching. Because that's how they would talk when the camera was off, if they were just watching the game with their buddy, if they were just watching the game with their former teammates, if they were just having a beer, you know, watching Monday Night Football, that's how they would talk. Yet when the camera comes on, they act like a completely different person. So I just hope he can strike some balance of just like, it's okay. You don't have to shit on everybody every, every day, every time. Like, that's not what. That's not what I'm trying to say. But I think there's just this, like, over emphasis on, like, I'm not gonna say anything bad about anybody. We're gonna try to keep a glass half full positive outlook on the whole thing. It's like, that's not how people talk when they watch the game. And back to football being so popular. Like, every single person I watch a game with or have over the course of my adult Life. We all end up kind of having the same conversations, like, what the fuck is that coach doing? What a terrible play call. That's how the people that are providing all the money sitting on their couch talk. Yet it's very rare to hear people on television talking like that because, like, well, I see what he could have done there. You know, you might want to. It's like, no, come on, man. So I'm just, I'm rooting for jj and listen, I'm not expecting him to just come out the gates, guns blazing, blasting people, but I think we need more of people that are just willing to talk like what we're all seeing, because we all see it. And I think people are very, very hesitant now to say anything outside of the little like, ah, this is not gonna ruffle any feathers. It's like, I'd like you to ruffle a few feathers.
- [45:29]
Bob Pittman
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [45:34]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [45:37]
Bob Pittman
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [45:45]
Jeremy Hobson
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [45:47]
Bob Pittman
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [45:52]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [45:53]
Bob Pittman
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [45:55]
Jeremy Hobson
Thanks for having me.
- [45:56]
Bob Pittman
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [46:01]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [46:03]
Jeremy Hobson
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [46:04]
Bob Pittman
And when you subscribe, subscribe to the Middle. You also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [46:13]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary? And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [46:21]
Bob Pittman
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [46:27]
Jeremy Hobson
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Health Beauty, Tarang Amin.
- [46:52]
John Middlekauff
The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.
- [46:58]
Jeremy Hobson
I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist jewelry.
- [47:02]
John Middlekauff
I wanted a way to do something.
- [47:04]
Kira K. Dixon
That I loved for the rest of my life.
- [47:06]
Jeremy Hobson
We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times, like Stefan Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [47:37]
George M. Johnson
We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight. Is that. I thought it was. Oh, this is Fighting Words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best selling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back and that's what we are doing on Fighting Words. We're not going to let anyone silence us.
- [48:02]
John Middlekauff
That's the reason why they're banning books like yours, George. That's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of black history or queer history, any history that challenges the.
- [48:10]
George M. Johnson
Whitewashed norm or put us in a box. Black people have never ever depended on the so called mainstream to support us. That's why we are great. We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [48:37]
Mel Reed
Hey, this is Mel Reed, LPGA tour winner and six time ladies European tour.
- [48:41]
Kira K. Dixon
Winner and Kyra K. Dixon, NBC sports reporter and host.
- [48:44]
Mel Reed
You forgot to say all my Miss America by the way. And we've got a new podcast queen. Quiet Please with Mel and Kira.
- [48:51]
Kira K. Dixon
We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some golf haps and interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their superpower.
- [49:00]
Mel Reed
Or just people we like. Plus tales from the road and everything in between. By the way, golf isn't just for the dads, Brads and chads.
- [49:07]
Kira K. Dixon
Yeah, it's actually life's cheat code and we're not going to be quiet about it on or off the course. We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle We, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis.
- [49:17]
Mel Reed
So if you want to keep up with us and here is yap, tune into our new podcast, listen to Quiet.
- [49:22]
Kira K. Dixon
Please with Mel and Kira. An iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [49:43]
John Middlekauff
Okay, let's do a little mailbag at John Middlekopf on Middlekopf. Is the Instagram fire in those DMs? Get your questions answered here on the podcast. Just my Instagram fire in. This is a good question from Chris. When do teams get the idea of who they're drafting? Do they have a good sense of a player that they want now? I think he means like, you know, in March, or does it really just happen on draft day based on how the board shakes out? Curious to hear your thoughts. Well, I think there are three different steps. The first step is the fall, which is kind of like Internet dating or swiping, right? If you're the decision maker, the gm, coaches aren't involved. The head coach is involved in the fall. But your gm, your assistant gm, your college director, they are watching all the tape, especially on the top, you know, hundred, 150 guys. So they have a very good idea of all the top players, how they play, then the All Star Game format. So again, like, you, you like people based on tape, which is the most important thing, right? Where the Internet dating thing isn't totally analogous because it's not just based on looks, where the tape really matters. But you do need to get to know the person. So once that second phase starts, which I would call the All Star Games and the Combine, you get to meet the person. So if I'm like the west coast or Southeast scout, I get to do it all because I get to not only scout the player, right, and see the player at practice and go see him at games, but I might get to talk to the player, or I definitely get to talk to the coaches. I get a much more intimate, just feel for the guy. So I can really kind of pound the table by the time the before the combine even starts. Like, I want this guy where the GM needs to get to know him. And that usually happens at All Star Games and definitely at the combine. So the first time, if I'm a GM, if I'm willing to take a guy at 10th overall, I can't do it just based on I got to meet the player, I got to talk to the guy, I got to get a feel for him. And that's when those top 30 visits happen. I mean, they're actually just called the 30 visit because they're not your top 30 players. You can bring any player in so up until you meet the guy, even if you love the player, you wouldn't be comfortable. And in my experience, it's a long time ago, but I would imagine the Eagles still do. It is like any top player that we're going to draft in the first, probably even the second round, Jeffrey Lurie would meet as well. So I think meeting the individual is really important. But. And then once the pro day happens, maybe our, our assistant coaches go work the guy out, maybe they go to dinner or have lunch with them. Once that takes shape, you know you really like the player and by then you know you would draft the player. So I, I would say by the end of this month, before the meetings happen with the scouts, to really finalize, quote, unquote, the draft board. I think most GMs have a pretty good idea, like based on the information they have, I would draft this player or I would not. And there are a lot of players that you've scouted that you go listen and we've talked about this before on the show, that you like the player a lot, but he has red flags in his past that are just non negotiables for you or you're not willing to take that chance. So I think that's a fine line. But I would say, well, before the draft, you know, if you would or will not draft a certain player. Now when you're like the Bills, you don't know. Like as of today, you have maybe a little idea, but not a strong, strong indication of who's going to be where, when. So when you're drafting in the 20s, a lot of stuff's out of your control. So you need the next month of meetings to take place, do some like information gathering to have a feel for. Do I need to trade up? Can I wait if I love a guy, are we cool with trading back? You got to find out what your options are. So I think beside the top, like, if you're drafting in the top 10, you got a pretty good idea of who you want and what group of. Like if you're drafting, if you're the Raiders, you're not really going like, well, we got to worry about Abdul Carter, Cam Ward or Travis Hunter. So you're drafting a six. You already feel fucking very confident that three guys are going to be off the board. So you can go the next group of five guys. How would we rank these guys of three defensive guys, three offensive guys, if all six of them were on the board, who would we take? And then just run exercises from there. So it's much easier to do when you're, when you're drafting, you know, in the mid to late 20s, it's much more difficult once you get to like 10 or 11. You're just taking pretty strong educated guesses. So I, I think if you pulled like most GMs right now, because even if you're the Bills or the Chiefs, you would have a general idea of like the type guys that would be there and they would be like, well, if this guy was there, we'd be more inclined to take these positions over this position. But I think if you pulled like right now, Pete Carroll and John Spytak, they could give you a decent answer, right? Or Ryan polls and Ben Johnson of like, you know, it's probably between these three guys. Assuming they're there. I think it would be much more difficult for, you know, someone like, I don't know, Sean McVeigh. It's like. And where I think it gets tough for teams in the 20s. Let's just use this example. Let's say Sean McVay is in love with Jackson Dart right now. Loves Jackson Dart. It's like, well, yeah, if Jackson Dart is there, I don't even know when they're picking. Let's. I'm just going to make up a number. I'm probably pretty close. 22, 21. Like he's there 21. We would highly consider him, right? But then he's there at 21, but some other guy has fallen that it's like, oh, geez, this guy was our second rated left tackle. How do we pass on this guy? So I just think there are a lot of variables. A lot happens on draft night, right? But you have a very good idea going into the draft of obviously who you really like and then the different exercises you run. And then the thing that you never quite know is in coaches and definitely GMs, you know, in any of those like team produce videos they put up on YouTube, talk about they have talked to GMs over the course of a week or two on potential trades, but we've seen enough videos now that they get on the horn. It's like, yeah, this, we're not that interested anymore. Or it's like, yeah, we're just going to stay here and take our guy because we didn't know he'd be there. I just think there's so many variables that you just never know. So you got to have a pretty good idea. You know, some teams work in clusters. Other teams like really focus on one or two guys. I remember Veets telling me a couple years ago they never in a million years thought McDuffie would like, sniff the twenties. Then all of a sudden he was there. So it's like, of course we like McDuffie. We thought he'd go at like 13. And then he's sitting there at what they trade up to, like 22. And then he's at 22. It's like, well, let's go get him. So you just. I think sometimes things happen that, you know, I might love a player, right? Like, let's say I'm the Kyle Shanahan, the Niners, and I love, like, Mason Graham is my favorite player in this draft that I think has a chance to be there, but it's like, I don't think he's actually going to be there at 11. Then all of a sudden, you know, the Bears, somehow he's there at 11. It's like, this is insane. We thought he would be fall no later than like seven, and we weren't going to trade up. So I think you just got to be prepared for a lot of things. It's really hard. I mean, you spend so much work, like, think, let's say you have eight picks you spent. I mean, the amount of time that you've spent in the fall, the. The combine, the All Star Games, this period of time and then April with your scouts in meetings and you have fall meetings of just talking about players that you are never going to draft is pretty crazy. It's like studying for a test. You have no clue what the answers are going to be or, excuse me, the questions are going to be, but you have to be prepared with an answer for every potential question. Now, the difference is, is like those players in the draft, a large percentage of them become available in three, four, five years. Some in two or three years, some get. Some don't even make the team this fall. So you got to do the work on everyone. Even though you're only going to acquire six to 10 guys and some undrafted free agents. It's a. It's a crazy experience of the amount of work that goes in with just for a small amount of guys that actually get on the team. When answering questions. In a recent mailbag, you mentioned a throw that Kaepernick made to Vernon Davis. Whenever you recall a play that I don't immediately remember, I usually go look it up. I agree. That throw was a dime. It was a throw against Tampa Bay that he like threw on the run. I swear it traveled like 70 yards in the air to Vernon running like 4, 240. Davis was absolutely concussed on the play when he ran into the wall. Yeah, Vernon got concussed a couple times when Cam Chancellor once hit him in a Seattle game. I don't think he was ever quite the same. Can you name some plays that are sports Core memories? My top pick will always be Michael vick's game winning 46 yard TD run in overtime against the Vikings. I will always remember exactly where I was and running into the other room to tell my brother so he could watch the highlights. I would say when I was, was it 98, 99. Whenever Terrell Owens caught the ball against the Green Bay packers in a wild card game across the middle and he got crushed. I remember being at like a neighbor's house that was just down the street from my parents house. I think we were watching the house and I got sent over to do some stuff and I watched that game and I remember the 49ers getting their ass kicked and then he made the throw and I remember just screaming. I lost my voice. And I was. I watched the game by myself. So yeah, I mean I remember being at my cousin Kenny's house when Klay Thompson hit all those threes against Oklahoma city in Game 6 when the warriors were just done against Kevin Durant and the Oklahoma City Thunder on the road. Yeah. But I would say Terrell Owens is like a 90s football memory that I will never forget. Is there a world we live in where the Giants go Travis at 3 and Shador Dion Boycott. Every other team would love that. Yeah, I mean that's. I. Even if they said like boycott the team, what, what if, what if I'm the Raiders, what if I'm just the Ram? What? You know, a team that was just like, I'm just gonna draft Seattle, what's he going to do? Not show up? Because if I draft him, he almost has to either sit out a year, he's kind of screwed. So I, I think it's one thing to boycott, you know, like what, what the Mannings did to the Chargers, what Elway did to the Colts. I think it's, I think it's impossible to do it to the entire league. That would be sick though. From Australia. Do you think if Rogers signs with the Steelers and they draft Shador Sanders to sit out for a year or two, that Rogers would mentor improperly? Unlike Love in Green Bay. You know, Jordan Love's spoken very highly of Aaron, so I wasn't there. You weren't there. But based on the information that we had with Aaron is. He did not treat Jordan Love like Favre treated him. And I know Zach Wilson kind of got mouthy last year when Aaron tore his Achilles and he thought they were going to be best buddies. And then Aaron disappears. Like, oh, yeah, he got hurt. So I. I actually wouldn't. I would much rather have my quarterback around Rogers than Russell Wilson. When that clip went viral last year of Russell, like, with Najee Harris, just saying the corniest ever about, like, how his mindset, it's just like, bro, what are you talking about? I remember Najee's face was like, come on, man, go talk to somebody else. Why is going 9 and 8 or 10 and 7 so bad? As a Steeler fan, I'm grateful I don't have to deal with hard seasons like the Raiders. Shot at the Raiders and other franchises I get we might not really have a chance to win the super bowl, but I appreciate not being terrible. I mean, bring up a good point. Is it better to be 9 and 8 and 10 and 7 every single year than to bottom out and just have a shot? Because if you bottom out, doesn't mean you're ever going to get better. The Jags have sucked for a long time. The Raiders have been bad for 20 years. The Giants have been bad now for a decade. Plus the jets have sucked for even longer. You're right. There is no guarantee. The thing I would say is you're the Steelers and all you've ever done is won. So the. Remember the year you had a bad season, you got Roethlisberger, and 15 years later, you start kicking ass, winning every year. I just think it's from the quarterback standpoint. How do you get a quarterback? But I hear you, like, let's say you just blow it up. You trade everybody. Well, what if you just suck for like, three or four years? That. That would not be fun. It's not an enjoyable fall. You're not wrong. I think the way the Steelers carry themselves, the way Tomlin does, the standard is a standard. It's like your standards are kind of low right now relative to what they used to be. And I think the hard part is if you're 9 and 8 and 10 and 7, like winning your division all the time and be like, yeah, it's just like, whatever. But it feels like with Burrow and Lamar, what are you guys gonna do? Bleak times.
- [64:38]
Bob Pittman
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [64:44]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [64:47]
Bob Pittman
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [64:55]
Jeremy Hobson
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [64:57]
Bob Pittman
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [65:02]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me, Jeremy.
- [65:03]
Bob Pittman
Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [65:05]
Jeremy Hobson
Thanks for having me.
- [65:06]
Bob Pittman
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [65:10]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat.
- [65:12]
Jeremy Hobson
I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [65:14]
Bob Pittman
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [65:23]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [65:31]
Bob Pittman
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [65:37]
Jeremy Hobson
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Health Beauty, Tarang Amin.
- [66:02]
John Middlekauff
The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.
- [66:07]
Jeremy Hobson
I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.
- [66:11]
John Middlekauff
I wanted a way to do something.
- [66:13]
Kira K. Dixon
That I loved for the rest of my life.
- [66:15]
Jeremy Hobson
We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times. Like Stephane Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [66:46]
George M. Johnson
We ready to fight? I'm ready to fight. Is that. I thought it was. Oh, this is Fighting Words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best selling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back and that's what we are doing on Fighting Words. We're not going to let anyone silence us.
- [67:12]
John Middlekauff
That's the reason why they're banning books like yours, George. That's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of black history or queer history, any history that challenges the.
- [67:20]
George M. Johnson
Whitewash norm or put us in a box. Black people have never ever depended on the so called mainstream to support us. That's why we are great. We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [67:46]
Mel Reed
Hey, this is Mel Reed, LPGA Tour winner and six time Ladies European Tour.
- [67:50]
Kira K. Dixon
Winner and Kira K. Dixon, NBC Sports reporter and host.
- [67:54]
Mel Reed
You forgot to say warmer. Miss America by the way. And we've got a new podcast guest Quiet Please with Mel and Kira.
- [68:01]
Kira K. Dixon
We are bringing you spicy takes on sports and pop culture, some golf haps and interviews with incredible people who have figured out how to make golf their.
- [68:09]
Mel Reed
Superpower or just people we like. Plus tales from the road and everything in between. By the way, golf isn't just for the dads, Brads and chads.
- [68:16]
Kira K. Dixon
Yeah, it's actually life's cheat code and we're not going to be quiet about it on or off the course. We're bringing on some of our friends like Michelle We, Heather McMahon, Amanda Baliotis.
- [68:27]
Mel Reed
So if you want to keep up with us and here is yap, tune into our new podcast Listen to Quiet.
- [68:32]
Kira K. Dixon
Please with Mel and Kira, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.
- [68:53]
John Middlekauff
I wanted to ask how much does postseason success or failure weigh to quarterback evaluation? For instance, Jalen Hurts might be a flawed as a regular season week to week quarterback still above average, but clearly has another gear on big but big stage in games compared to the likes of Herbert or even Lamar. Should Jalen's postseason elevate him into the top five rankings? Especially considering he's done it twice? It's a good question. There is no disputing. He's played in two Super Bowls and was excellent and even the Washington game. Now I don't think their defense is very good. He was really really good. And the one thing you cannot argue about Jalen is from the moment he got to Bama, then to Oklahoma and then the went situation with the Eagles like he ain't scared. And let's face it, you know, for those of us that have been watching sports for a long time, we have seen some of our favorite teams. I mean, when I was a kid growing up and the Sacramento Kings got good, a big reason they got good was Chris Weber. And then they played in the biggest games humanly possible. And Chris Weber shriveled. I was like, oh yeah, this is the thing that people have been talking about for a decade with this guy. And some guys just when they get in the moment, like, I don't necessarily think Lamar Shrivels, but it doesn't quite look the same. And maybe he's putting too much pressure on himself. I don't know what it is, but Jalen, with his mindset of just never being that happy or smiling that often, maybe that serves him well. Like he's just kind of unfazed by good and bad. Yeah, I don't. I would not consider him, like if I had to pick five quarterbacks, I would not choose him. And that's, you know, based on the course of the regular season. Like he has been objectively more important in the biggest games than or better in the biggest games than Lamar Jackson. Right. If Lamar would have played some of his big games, like Jalen has played the super bowl, shit, the Ravens could be like back to back champs. But I would take Lamar Jackson over Jalen. Hurts every day of the week. It's weird. That's makes him a bizarre player. And you know, when you talk about football, it makes him a polarizing guy to talk about. Because I get if you're an Eagles fan, like, you got his back, but I know you've also been really frustrated watching him play. I think he's just, I don't know, I mean, I can't remember a player quite like him. I really can't because he's got his flaws, but he also has this high end skill. And again, how many guys can say, like, I played in two Super Bowls and in both Super Bowls I was excellent Packer fan. How do you see the Jair Alexander situation unfolding? Do you see a world where he stays a Packer? Also, is there anything they can do to make the jump from an NFC championship game? Is starting to feel. My guess is a guy like him, I mean, it feels like you know better than me, but at least the quotes toward the end of the season at the combine, felt like he was gone. Maybe it's a draft trade, you know, for a team that doesn't get a corner. I'm not sure. I mean, you'd know better than me, like specifically. Is it just maturity? I know he's had some injuries. The Carolina Panthers. He walked out as a team captain. That's underrated NFL moment in the last couple of years. But yeah man, I. I don't know your guess good as mine as we're sitting here today. Hasn't been traded, right? My just educated guest fall in the NFL is a situation like that. He gets traded around the draft. But yeah, I mean anytime a guy hasn't been traded after free agency he definitely could be back on the team. I'm sure you get asked a lot but we are looking to do an eight man golf trip next year to Scottsdale in May. Is that month good in regards to course conditions? Yes it is. Can be a little hot then. But all the. I mean of course it's March. We don't have course conditions in in Arizona. This is year round baby. This is not you know going playing golf in Nashville a month ago or shit less than that three weeks ago. And just the green, the grass was dead and the greens were dead. That doesn't happen around here. Love the show. Big fan. Born and raised in Boston, living in Dallas. Die hard. Patriot fan. Is it just me or the Patriot fans? A bit delusional. Delusional about our team. One may showed some promise. However the idea that he's destined to be a top five quarterback. Like how about like how they talk about him on the Boston sports media is wild to me. I definitely think he will improve but there are still a lot of question marks. We're in agreement. I think. I think we just got to be a little cautious. By the way we have anointed him. I think this him and Caleb Williams, they did not play in any games that mattered. And if you watch them, both of them could have an individual play. You're like holy shit. Because they're both freakishly skilled. That's why they went 1 and 3 in the draft. But none of their plays mattered and how many times when. And I I probably watch more of Caleb than I did Drake. But it felt like some of their big moments happened down multiple scores and it's like you guys were bad. So it's once you're up 21 nothing against the Patriots like you ain't worried about them coming back. So are you even playing the same defenses? And again I'm pro. Like I'm rooting for both the guys to be good quarterbacks. The more good quarterbacks, the better the league is. The better is for me in this business. But and I'm guilty of this too, you know. And I like a guy you hype a guy up and then all of a sudden it's like we gotta, we gotta slow it down. Like if you are a in the mix for a wild card, the games you are playing in are just so much different than when you're 2 and 12. Even if you're playing a good team, like playing Buffalo, in what world do the good teams take you seriously when your record sucks? They don't. We're all human beings. But I hear you. I, I would, I would think he becomes a solid player. But like top five quarterbacks, I think we throw that out a lot. Do you know hard is to become a top five quarterback? Think of three of the top five quarterbacks right now. Patrick Mahomes is going to go down as one of the greatest players of all time. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson literally just won back to back MVPs. And listen, if you want to nitpick both of them, you can. But I think we all acknowledge like those two motherfuckers are elite. I mean they are incredible players. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, those are three of the top five guys. Patrick Mahomes going right to the hall of Fame. I don't see any way, as long as they stay relatively healthy that Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson aren't first ballot hall of Famers. Are they going to win a Super Bowl? I don't know. I would probably if I was a betting man. Does one of the two of them win a Super Bowl? Yeah, I would bet on that, but there's no guarantee. Right, but they are so three of the top five guys. I've been watching football like with a conscious mind for 30 years. So the second and the third guy are two of the most talented players I've ever seen. Now we can argue four and five, but like that's how hard three of the five guys are. And they're all under 30. They're not going anywhere. That's how hard it is to even just sniff the top. Herbert gets shit on all the time. He just led a shitty team with Harbaugh to the fifth five seed. And then Matt Stafford who won a Super bowl two years ago. This hyper focus on getting a wide receiver 1. Do we need more weapons? Yes. However, I believed in building the defense o line and run game first, the receivers last. No wide receiver one is going to make a difference in the win column. In our line of scrimmage. If our line of scrimmage sucks. I think a lot of people, this number three think we could be a playoff team next year. I don't. More competitive. Sure. But we still have a lot to improve. What do you think is a good two year strategy for the Patriots? I totally agree. I, I was a little perplexed. Even if you think Travis Hunter is going to be gone at pick three now or pick, you know he's going to get drafted at pick three and he's not going to be there for you at pick four. When I think Stefon Diggs I don't really think Mike Vrabel but when I think Stefon Diggs off a torn acl, I definitely don't think Mike Vrabel and giving a lot of money to. I understand they're desperate for some offensive players. I don't really get that one. Like I just, I don't. I would have been more inclined to like I don't know, trade a draft pick for a high priced player and just use that guy's salary if I, if I needed to pay some money. That was head scratching to me. It really was. But what you said, I think playoffs by in two years, you know be like what Sean Payton did. So by the second year they're a seven seed. I think that would be a huge win and I think this year just being way more competitive, going 7 and 10 getting some big upsets. Having Drake may look, you know, promising for the mailbag response. Holding, illegal contact resulting in an automatic first down being changed. Savvy teams on defense on third and 10 and beyond will just hold every play if they are about to get beat. If a corner ends up one on one with Justin Jefferson, he can just grab the shit out of him instead of getting burned. Think of third and 15 for example. Two straight clear holds because they are about to get beat. Then the defense makes a play on third and five. That's terrible. Tv. I'm with you on the automatic first down is brutal. But how do you stop teams for taking advantage of this? Thinking of Dan lanning getting a 12 man flag on purpose versus Ohio State knowing they can add time back on the clock and just eat the five yard flag. Well the 12 man things different, right? It got him whatever the five yard flag is. If I am going to try to do the hold on third and 15, I better not miss. And if I miss like all of a sudden, okay, third and 15. What if it's third and six then? So it's like yeah I would have got beat third and 15 but it's still third and six. But can't you just get off the field on third and 15 because you said if you're going to get smoked on third and 15. Well he might not know that for four or five steps in a couple steps with a fast guy like Justin Jefferson or Tyree Kill or whoever. They're already seven or eight yards down the field. So I hear what you're saying, but I don't think it's as black and white as the way you have explained it. There would be an individual situation for sure where it's third and 20 and I just mug you, wouldn't I just feel like I get off the field. I don't know. I. I don't think it'd be as big of a problem as you do if it happened a lot in the example you used with you. Awful tv, terrible. I just don't know if it would hear me out. I think it's absolutely insane that Shador is being talked about as a first, as a first round quarterback. He gets credit for turning around a garbage Colorado program. But how is he in any way being elevated? I think he meant above yours who had to deal with the whole Arch Manning stuff and led his team to back to back semifinals appearances. Well, college football is not the NFL so I would argue that Texas subtract. The quarterback was as talented as anyone in college football beside like Georgia or Ohio State. Just pure talent. Their talent was immense. So when you play quarterback for them, winning games like you don't get extra credit like why don't we talk Will Howard goes to Ohio State and win the national championship. Why don't we talk about Will Howard is the number one overall pick. We don't evaluate you in college football just based off wins and losses. It's actually not that that doesn't matter. It does in playing big football or good football in big moments matters. But it's much more about a skill set to me. I watch Chidor Sanders. I feel much better about him as a consistent passer than I do Quinn yours and he is a better playmaker. So when I watch Quinn yours I don't see a very good player. I actually see a guy that if he had played better Texas might win the national championship and if he had played better, they don't lose to Georgia. So in the regular season when he was terrible, like he was the same thing as Carson Beck, which I think most of us think Carson Beck is not very good. I think you got to be very careful because if that's like guys like Patrick Mahomes wouldn't be viewed very good coming out of college. Like I just played on a 7 and 6 team this other guy's in the national championship. Well, yeah, he's playing at Georgia or Alabama or Ohio State. It's like it's much easier to play there. It is easy to play at Texas right now. Quarterback. Not easy in the sense like, like you said, there's something to be said about the pressure in handling the arch stuff. I do think the arch thing was a little more media made. I mean I've seen clips of them. It seems like they're homies. Seems like Arch is the easy guy to get along with. So on the outside it looks crazy, but I think on the inside it was pretty easy. Sark just named him. He never, never made it a big deal. Sark did a good job there. But like if Quinn Ewers had better skills, he would be viewed. People remember when the season started, Quinn Ewers to be the top pick in the draft. And then we watched the season. We're like ah, I don't really see it. Not bad. But I. Is Queen Ewers a backup in the NFL? Maybe, but maybe not. It should door might end up being a backup but I think should door. Like if I just put the teams, if we play a game tomorrow and the teams are exactly the same, same amount of talent and you tell me one team has Quinn yours and one team has Shador Sanders, I'll take the team with Shador Sanders and I think most in the NFL just think should Door Sanders a better prospect? We're not evaluated off how far we go. Like why wouldn't Riley Leonard be viewed as a first round pick or a second round pick? Because we evaluate a skill set. So I, I think you got to factor that's how the teams look at this stuff. From not just wins and losses in the scoreboard, not that that doesn't matter but how accurate are you, how well you move, you know, how you operate in third, fifth, seven step drops, how you do against the blitz, how well you see things, how well you play when you're down, you know, how well you move. I think all these things factor in not that Quinn some scrub. I mean he's going to get drafted. My guess is he gets drafted third, fourth round and someone thinks he's a backup quarterback. I think he's kind of like Matt Barkley usc, but better. Barkley played in the league for a long time as a fourth round pick. That's what I listen Shador might end up being a backup. You know, he might. I, I mean I'm telling you I, I think if you talk to most people in the NFL. His comps much closer to like Derek Carr or Jimmy Garoppolo who are second round picks. So if you want to say Shador is overrated, that's fair. But relative to yours, he's a better prospect than Quinn. Yours. Adios. The volume AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead. Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further, faster, unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers this is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser Podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This this commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following OTs.
- [86:22]
Bob Pittman
Upwithhate we live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [86:52]
Jeremy Hobson
Hi, I'm Bob Pippman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like Chairman and CEO of Health Beauty Tarang Amin, legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel.
- [87:19]
John Middlekauff
Being a rock star is very fun.
- [87:20]
Kira K. Dixon
But helping people is way more fun.
- [87:22]
Jeremy Hobson
And Damian Maldonado CEO of American Financing.
- [87:26]
John Middlekauff
I figured out the formula. I just have to work hard. Then that's magic.
- [87:29]
Jeremy Hobson
Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.