← The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
3 & Out - Who is on the trading block, where will Shedeur Sanders land, Go Low
01:10:56
Loading summary
Transcript56 lines
- [00:00]
John Middlekauff
It's the last game of the season and with amex, you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com with Amex.
- [00:15]
T-Mobile Representative
T Mobile's stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel, because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines of your virtual prepaid card allowed 15 days qualifying unlocked device credit service report in 90 plus days device ineligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.
- [00:45]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe, subscribe to the Middle. You also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:15]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents. The only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:46]
T-Mobile Representative
The Volume.
- [02:00]
John Middlekauff
What is going on everybody? John Middlekopf three and out podcast. How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing great and today we're going to split up the podcast. We're going to start with some football because the drafts right around the corner, some guys that are clearly on the trading block, some GMs admitted as much and other stories coming out about a quarterback that is essentially trying to force his way out of town and then some other draft. Talk about something the Rams do that the new Jags GM will also implement in Jacksonville that I find pretty fascinating when it comes to draft time, the lead up to the draft, at least how they approach player visits and player workouts. And Sanders should door that is not Dion or Shiloh will be working out for the Giants and clearly trying to impress and hopefully get drafted number three overall here in next I don't know if it's today or tomorrow but that that workout is going on. So we'll talk some football and then we're going to talk. I'm just going to do a little Go Low podcast and we'll just combine the two but football for the first 20, 25 minutes and I did want to talk a little bit more about Rory winning the Masters, some bets for this weekend, the RBC heritage and I'm going to answer a bunch of your questions. So no football mailbag today. We will save that for Thursday show which we are having Jake Dickert who is now the coach at Wake Forest but coached Washington State forever. So coach Cam Ward for a couple years. He also coached against Shador Sanders. So he'll be on tomorrow and I'll do a big mailbag with that as well. But today we're going to do a bunch of golf stuff. The Golo mailbag is @GoloPod. At golopod is the golf mailbag. Fire in those DMs. Get your question answered here on the show and that's what I did. I going to answer a bunch of your shows. So we split up the podcast today. A little something for everybody. Ideally, if you like golf and football, it's perfect for you. But if you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to 3Now podcast. If you like YouTube, most people I know do subscribe to our page. We got a bunch of content up there as well. And yeah, so we're off and running. But first, got to tell you about my friends. My partner's in the official ticketing app of this podcast and they go by game time. We got the NBA playoffs in full swing. I'm recording this before the warriors game. Hopefully they take care of business. The Kings are playing on Wednesday night. A lot of friends in the 916. You want to go to any of these games? I said it yesterday. I will continue this theme. Playoff basketball is pretty awesome, especially if it's your team at home places rocking. It's really fun. You got NHL hockey kicking off. You got summer concerts going. I just saw Coachilla rocking and rolling. So if you want to go to a concert get outside, have a few pops, have a few cocktails, sing some songs, dance around. We also have you want to go see comedian? Obviously it's very, very easy to do. You just download the gametime app. You take the guesswork out of buying tickets with gametime. Create an account and use the code John that's J O h N for $20 off. Your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account, redeem the code JOHAN John for $20 off down on the Game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. One thing that happens during this this time is you have players on your roster that you clearly would have traded around the combine and around free agency, but you weren't able to get anything done because a lot of these teams hope to fill those needs with the position that you're willing to trade if it's not some super prominent guy that everyone's interested in during the draft. And then what happens during the draft is let's say you need a tight end and you're drafting in the low 20s and you have two guys that you would have no problem taking. And obviously if you draft a guy at pick 20 or pick 18 or 22, you expect that guy to become your starting tight end and at worst play a lot as a rookie. Well, if the draft comes and goes on Thursday night and both those guys are gone before you pick and you don't have anyone else at that position graded higher than like in the third round, you are much more interested in trading for guys like Dallas Goddard and Mark Andrews. Now we've known for a while Dallas Goddard is on the trade block and I fully expect him to be traded either Thursday, Friday or Saturday during the NFL draft. Today we learned when the Ravens GM was Eric D. Costa was being asked about Mark Andrews and it's one of those like do you expect Mark Andrews to be on the team trade? It's an easy answer when some guy goes, we're not trading this player. He's going to be on our team this year. Nothing else anyone can say. But when you go with the, you know he's a warrior. He's been one of the great players. Like, no, you're just beating around the bush. This guy is now on the trading block and Mark Andrews, I had to immediately look it up and I think the initial hot take reaction would be, well, it's because he dropped balls. It has nothing to do with that. Players. Jerry Rice dropped some balls. Terrell Owens had questionable hands. Like players drop balls. Shitty time to do that. But that is not the reason They've soured on the player. The reason they've soured on this player is financially. He's going to be a free agent after 2025. They have to pay him $11 million cash. And I think it's safe to say if you look at the Ravens history, they're probably not going to give him a third contract. So right now, when he still has value, couldn't they trade him to a team that misses out on one of the top tight ends in this draft and potentially get like a third round pick? And instead of having to wait for the comp picks for another year and just play it out, they can pivot right now and who knows, maybe use one of their high picks on a tight end. But whenever you are asked about the status of a player and you can't directly say, yeah, that is not happening, you're open to it. Hell, we saw it for a month and a half with John lynch and the 49ers with Brandon Iuk. It's like you just gave this guy a contract. It's like, yeah, we really like him. But listen, you never say never. No, you never say never to players that you know are going to be on your team. It's one thing to be like, if I ask Andy Reid, like, is Chris Jones going to be on your team? And 2025, you'd be like, listen, Chris has done a lot of good things. We really like him. But you could never. No, he would never say that. He said, yes, of course Chris Jones is going to be on the roster 2025. And when asked about Mark Andrews, can't say that now. Howie isn't even hiding it. He said that the draft plans will have no impact on Dallas Goddard situation. But I think it's fair to say that the plan is. It doesn't mean that it will happen. Things are fluid. Takes two to tango. While you can dance by yourself, ideally you need a partner. And I think in any trade situation, you can want to trade Dallas Goddard, you can want to trade Mark Andrews, you need someone to trade for them. But the Ravens and the Eagles are ready to trade their tight ends. And I think you look at a team like the Denver Broncos, I know they signed a tight end, but they could use multiple. You look at the Los Angeles Chargers when it comes to a tight end situation. Where's their general manager from the Ravens? Would they be interested? Would the Ravens trade him within the conference? I don't know. But there are going to be landing spots depending on if the teams that are interested don't land said player in the draft. The Miami Dolphins general manager admitted today that Jalen Ramsey has not asked for a trade, that it is the Dolphins. And I go back to the end of the year when the Dolphins missed the playoffs and Mike McDaniel, and in fairness, Shane Steichen did too, said that players were constantly showing up late and that fines when guys are super rich have little impact. No shit. It's like Adam Silver, he's like, John Morant won't listen to me. Here's $75,000. Jaws like, I have a $200 million contract. I don't even notice that. And when it comes to finding a guy that makes 20, 25, $30 million a year, a couple grand, they don't care. If they don't respect you, that money is going to be very meaningless to them. And I remember thinking those two coaches, like, if you're a practice squad guy or a fringe, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh round guy from previous years, that's, you know, a borderline starter or a guy fighting for your career, under no circumstances are you going to consistently show up late. The only guy who's going to consistently show up late is a super rich player that knows he's kind of on scholarship. So when I see the Miami Dolphins come out and say, like, yeah, Jalen plan on getting rid of the guy, pretty clear. Going Back to Mike McDaniel in his comments that Jalen was showing up late, like, it's not hard to put the pieces of the puzzle together. And if you think about last year when they got rid of Fangio kind of randomly or let him out of his contract and that thing kind of, you know, fell apart. I don't want to say out of nowhere, but what was kind of a bizarre situation, there were some weird comments about Fangio being too mean and Fangio not really liking it there. Like, I think it's safe to say that the Jalen Ramsey Miami Dolphins experiment has been a little bumpy. And clearly the Dolphins won out of that business. The problem is, if I can figure this out, you better freaking believe that people around the NFL know that too. It's like, wait, you want me to trade for a guy who missed the pro ball for the first time since his rookie year, who makes a ton of money and clearly I don't want to call him malcontent, but someone that is hasn't been a great business partner for you, especially this last year, I think he's got little to no value. So I wonder if Miami Dolphins end up trading Him. The other story that did not see coming is the Derek Carr New Orleans Saint situation. There was a story last week about he needs shoulder surgery and might miss the year. Came out of nowhere in the middle of April. I think a lot of people are scratching their heads. You're like, is this, Is this real? Well, it is Rap Sheet, who obviously is a very reputable reporter and I don't think just makes things up, but pretty clear that over time, and a lot of people, the big J's that have been reporting on this, it has come from the Derek Carr camp and they're using this to try to get the Saints to either trade them or cut them. And I started thinking, like, if I'm a Saints fan or hell, if I'm Mickey Loomis, I think the Derek Carr experience has been really underwhelming. I don't think on the totality of it. He's played that well. He's had individual good games. But overall, I think they expected more. They expected him to be another, a better player. And then I started thinking, if I'm Derek Carr, I go, well, I came to this chaotic organization. I think I did the math. In his two years starting there now, he's missed some games with injury, so he hasn't played, you know, 34 games, but he has 40 touchdowns. I would have guessed, like, what are his stats in the two years as the Saints starting quarterback? I would have guessed, I don't know, 30 touchdowns and 22 interceptions. He has easily a 2 to 1 ratio, 40 touchdowns, 13 picks. And I bet in his mind he goes, I'm still a good player. It's not me, which I don't totally agree with, but by all accounts is like Kellen Moore and the Saints aren't that into Derek Carr. Somehow they. I'm not quite sure how this works, but they restructured his contract without his blessing, which is a little weird. You know, there are reports that he doesn't want a Kirk cousin situation where he's just the placeholder while they draft, let's say, Shador Sanders in the first round or Jackson Dart or whoever. Now my ultimate take. And the same thing with Cousins, I feel little to no sympathy when you take all the money. And when you take all the money, like, you don't get to then just dictate all the terms when you're not Mahomes, Josh Allen, LeBron James, Steph Curry, like, I'm sorry, no one's gonna cry foul for Kirk Cousins for Derek Carr, but this situation is getting messy. And I Think if you are the Saints and you end up drafting a quarterback with the your top 10 pick, I do think it would be beneficial to either find a trade partner or just get rid of this guy because you don't want. Not that Derek's a bad guy at all, but I, and I would say the same thing with Kirk Cousins. You don't want to put your young quarterback in just a bizarre, weird situation. It is easy to just pivot and that's what I would expect to happen. Now, I don't think he would have much of a trade market in the sense of they're not getting some high pick back for him. But when you look at Mark Andrews, when you look at Dallas Goddard, when you look at Jalen Ramsey, when you look at Derek Carr, the two tight ends have value. I mean the two tight ends are getting traded for I would say probably like a third round pick to me, Jalen Ramsey, a lot of teams are like, yeah, we're not messing with that. The car thing is going to be interesting. Obviously we have to see how Rogers plays out. There's still some teams that are quarterback less. Would the Steelers be interested in that if they realize that Aaron's not going to come? I don't know. But yeah, that's. I think it's safe to say that's a failed experiment. The Derek Carr signing. Let's go into some draft talk and I found this fascinating. I'm sure I knew this, but reading this pro football talk, I almost said article, blog, whatever you consider it to be about the Rams former assistant GM and James Gladstone, the new Jags gm is that the Rams do not bring in players for their visit. And I saw someone, Benjamin Albright, who lives in Denver and covers the NFL and covers the Broncos as a radio show on the on the Bronco station, said that he's heard of teams using 30 visits in all sorts of different ways. Some of them don't use utilize them all. Some teams bring in teammates of guys they're interested in to not only throw people off the scent but also just gain extra information. And then some teams use utilize it as a complete smokescreen, bring in guys they're not interested in. So the visits, I find that they have some value having the coach and just spending more time around a human being because ultimately you're drafting the human being, right? So the more and more time you spend around them, in my opinion, the more beneficial now the Gladstone Rams view on it is it creates bias because if you have a good interaction with a guy for a Couple hours around lunch, it might pivot. Your former belief is like, I didn't really love this player, but now I really like the guy. And I. I've learned this when I was scouting, and I try to carry this in through all walks of life, that you have to be very careful about information you hear secondhand because it can really skew the way you view someone. Right? How often have you been told, yeah, no, I know that dude, Whether it's professionally, personally, through someone you got to do business with, or a guy that you're eventually going to go to dinner with through your wife or your girlfriend or whoever. Scumbag, loser, hate him. Can't. I can't trust him. Maybe that would be extreme, but just negative things about the guy or vice versa, really positive things about an individual. Then you meet the guy, you spend time with them, and you have the opposite interaction, positively or negatively, then that shapes the way you view something. And maybe. And this happens a lot, you hear something negative about a guy, especially. It happens all the time. I know a lot of you listening that are in countless different industries, have people in your industries, in the city, town, area you live in. I don't like doing business with this guy. Can't trust this guy. He has a bad reputation. Yet someone meets that same individual and goes, God, I really likeable. I had a bunch of cocktails with him, seemed pretty cool. We got along pretty well. And I think that's one thing that Gladstone talked about, is they try to remove that because they go, listen, we're secure in our scouting staff that over the last six, eight, two years of being around scouting, this individual, getting to know them, the person, the player, we created a profile on them. We didn't spend all this money to travel around and gather all this information to then change it dramatically over interaction, which, let's face it, can happen. Because there's one thing to scout a guy on the outside, talk to his coaches, talk to his counselors, talk to his high school coaches, talk to his teammates, talk to everyone that you would need to. To feel good about the guy, and then scout the player good enough, bad enough, in the middle, has some upside, has some downside, whatever, and go, I feel really good about this. Now, me, personally, if I was going to give someone, I don't know, millions of dollars, I would like to meet them first. But you could convince me that maybe they're onto something. And the one thing the Rams would say is, we've drafted pretty well. We kind of know what we're doing. And this Strategy has worked for us. Now, what I think is different about going to a new team is these scouts aren't yours. So the people giving you the information, you don't know how good or bad they are. So there is a lot of trusting individuals who aren't your people. You didn't hire these guys. It doesn't mean they're not good at their job, and it doesn't mean that you won't continue to employ them. But you're taking a pretty big leap of faith. The one thing with less need when the Rams are doing it and Sean McVay, like, they've all kind of been together a while, right? They kind of have a structure in place with some consistency of human beings. And whenever you go to a new place and totally understand, I would take what I learned that worked at a successful place with me as well. But that first couple months of making that transition. And listen, Gladstone, he's got great hair. And I one thing, and I made this mistake a long time ago when I'm like, Sean McVeigh is not going to work. And my take was simply like, I'm basically Sean McVay's age. And being a head coach at 30 years old in the NFL felt impossible. I'm like, I don't think it's. I don't think it's possible. And he proved me wrong. So I feel like I'm going the other way. I'm rooting for this young guy. Feels really dynamic. I hope it goes well, but this situation is going to be fascinating. I mean, part of the reason stuff works with the Jags, and I would say any team is coaching right. Obviously you need the good people culture is created by those individuals. But a huge reason the Rams won with Jared Goff, now with Stafford, have had good defenses, they got good coaches, they have a great head coach. So this guy could be one of the up and coming geniuses in the league. If Liam Cohen is below average as a head coach, none of it matters. Period, point blank, end of story. And last but not least, Shador Sanders, who's, let's face it, going to be the most polarizing guy in this draft. And if he's not drafted in the top 10, it'll just be Shador Sanders content, slip and fallen quote dmx and I can't get up, but just plummeting down the draft like, it'll be. I think it'll be one of the bigger stories on draft night in a long time, the way the network's forcing onto us, which I think Some teams would say, yeah, don't view him as a high prospect. Listen, I like the guy. Do I have any confidence that he's going to go high? I don't. Do I think he's going to fall? I guess I would bet on that. I don't even think he's a lockdown to be the second quarterback off the board. Not that I even agree with that. But let's face it, like, anytime you have this many prospects in a draft that are viewed as pretty interchangeable, anything's possible. There are going to be guys drafted in this top 10. Do you go, who did they just draft? Because usually the casual fan, besides super famous college players kind of learn about these guys in mock drafts. And then through mock drafts or through the television shows, you go, oh, they've been talking about this guy's like a late first round pick, a second round pick. Then all of a sudden he gets drafted eighth. You're like, what just happened? Get ready for that. Buckle up. And the same thing with these quarterbacks. Like, if one of these other quarterbacks gets drafted above Shador Sanders, I can see that coming. Is it going to happen? I don't know, but it's definitely possibility. So he is going to work out a private workout, which again, the Rams and Gladstone now with the Jags, do not do. They don't do any of these private workouts, which, I'm sorry, I, I value my private workouts. I do like my position coaches that I trust. If I got Jeff Stoutland, I like Jeff Stoutland to work out these offensive linemen and say, I like this guy, I don't like this guy. I can work with this guy. Now, I don't want any position coach just going to work him out. But if Deuce Staley is my running back coach, he can work out as many running backs as as he wants because I feel comfortable with his ability to translate who's going to be a good and bad player. Now, not every coach knows what the fuck they're talking about, so I'm not sending out everybody. So I would pick and choose the position coaches that I trust as a GM and as a head coach. But every staff is going to have some of them and the good ones are going to have more than than others. But this workout is pretty important for Shador Sanders because if it does go well, two things. One, maybe he could convince them, let's just take this guy at three. Or like, hey, listen, if this guy starts slipping a little bit and he's there in, I would say the mid teens would we trade back up into the first round and give a following year's first round pick to move up and get Shador Sanders? Because if you're a team especially like somewhere between 15 and the early 20s and the Giants are willing to come up from the second round and they will give you a 26 first rounder, you go, there's a decent chance the Giants suck. So if their quarterback room is Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston and Shador Sanders, it's probably more likely they win five or six games than 10 or 11 games. So I would do that deal all day long in a draft that's not viewed as great. But if you're Shador, I mean this is a great moment. Like this is. There's not a better job interview if you are a player than a private workout with the head coach and the play callers. I mean, I guess he's the same. Well, kind of. He goes back and forth calling plays but you know what I mean. The coaching staff, the GM standing right there watching you work out. So hopefully it goes well. And you know the Sanders, they're no dummies. They know the power of the New York market. A lot of money to be made getting drafted. The Giants the NBA 82 game grind is done. And now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs are here and it's time for the high stakes drama, clutch moments and jaw dropping plays. Can't wait. If you're looking to make the playoffs Even more exciting, DraftKings sportsbook has you covered as an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From the play in games all the way through the finals. Now the time to back your favorite players and teams as they chase glory. All season long, DraftKings has been your go to spot for NBA player props. And that doesn't stop now. Want to make your playoff experience even more intense? Try placing a bet on your favorite player's performance. Will Curry drop 30? Will LeBron drop 40 or more? It's your call. Ready to place your first bet? Download the DraftKings sportsbook app. Now lock in your bets and let's make the playoff run unforgettable. Here's something special for first timers. New DraftKings customers bet 5 to get 200 in bonus bets instantly. Make it a playoff run to remember with DraftKings. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use the Code John. That's Code John for new customers to get 200 bonus bets. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling Problem Call 1-800- gambler In New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny 467-369 In Connecticut, help is available for a problem gambling 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void In Ontario, bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng co audio.t mobile stats are.
- [26:57]
T-Mobile Representative
As impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to four lines of your virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption Required card is no cash access and expires in six months.
- [27:27]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [27:32]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother. I'm a grandmother.
- [27:35]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast Middle into the national conversation.
- [27:43]
John Middlekauff
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [27:46]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the middle.
- [27:50]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [27:51]
Jeremy Hobson
Jeremy Neil DeGrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [27:53]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [27:54]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [27:59]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia, and.
- [28:03]
Jeremy Hobson
When you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [28:11]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [28:19]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [28:25]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season from DJs mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [29:01]
John Middlekauff
Okay, that'll end the football portion of the podcast and we're gonna do a little go low on the second part of this, this little show, talk some masters with Rory, a little gambling about this upcoming event, the RBC heritage and as well as take your guys questions. So Olopod is the Instagram. We're gonna answer a bunch of mailbag questions that I've got over the last seven ten plus days. So this will be golf moving forward. But, but I did want to start with this because I've thought about this for a long time. You know, football basically. I mean, there are a couple examples. And now with the international program, teams are allowed allotted an extra spot, but basically everyone that plays in the NFL is born in America, plays college football. And I would say large, large percentage, close to like 99%. Their families live in this area too. So they get to stay here. They get to make money here. It's a pretty easy transition where in basketball and in baseball, to make the most money possible, if you are a great player, you have to come from Cuba, from the Dominican, from Japan, from wherever and come to America in baseball. Or look at Eastern Europe. Jokic, Luca, all the international players who have become stars have to come to America to play. It's why Jokic takes a bunch of shit for. I don't know why I'm saying Jokic, Jokic to leave in the offseason and he goes immediately, right when the season ends to go hang out at home and races horses, enjoys it. Well, yeah, I would too. He did not choose like if all things were equal, right, he would have just stayed in his home country and made $50 million a year and played in the best league possible. But that doesn't exist. Think how many of us are so lucky that we can excel in our profession. Hell, in the town we grew up in, let alone the choice to kind of move wherever we want to do in this country and make money. That is not the case if you're a professional athlete in baseball or basketball internationally, you got to come to America because that's where the cash is. And it's no different in golf. The, the PGA Tour, while it is a worldwide sport, the majority of the money on that tour Beside a couple events a year and they don't own the Open is played here. So guys like Rory and Shane Lowry and Tommy Fleetwood, and the list goes on and on back to when I was a kid. Guys like Ernie Ells or Retief Goosen or Podrick Harrington. We're not born here, but they were some of the best players and they moved here to play on the PGA Tour. And it can't be the easiest transition. You don't know. Imagine if, like John, the only place you can have success podcasting would be you have to move to Germany. Like that wouldn't be my first choice, but if I want to do this and I could have a lucrative career and this is what I'm good at, it's like, what would be my other options. And Rory McElroy, the moment after he won the Masters of walking up and the hug he gave was Shane Lowry, which anyone that follows the sport knows, like they've been friends for a long, long time. And on full swing they talked about it, their relationship, and it was. I've only watched like, I think like three episodes actually downloaded on the plane when I got married to Nashville. But their relationship seems like pretty cool and seems pretty special and seems kind of important when you're not from here to have people in your life that can relate to you and view you not as the multimillion dollar superstar, but as like the guy. Yeah, I remember when we were 14 and both of us had nothing and we were just hitting balls on some crappy range in Ireland and obviously the, the relationship, you know, Tommy Fleetwood or Justin Rose, some of these guys, he didn't grow up around. But from an international standpoint, most of these individuals live in America. And I actually think does Tommy Fleetwood live in Dubai, which maybe it's a different player, but most of these guys live in Florida. And I just think we don't talk about that enough of like, that can't be easy. Now. I get it. These guys, it's not like the language barrier like you would have for Shohei Ohtani or, you know, someone from the Dominican. But I just think about and listen, I live in a state that are where people I didn't grow up are around me. But many of you that listen, that have either in laws or your parents or your brothers and sisters or even close friends in the vicinity of where you live like that is, it can have its disadvantages, but it definitely can have its advantages. And at times, especially in your lower moments, you know, you seek some comfort, you need some comfort. And Rory talked about it with his caddy, who's one of his best friends since he was, like, 7 or 8 years old, who's taken a lot of crap over the years for not being, like, a good enough caddy. Even though I think Rory's success kind of speaks for itself of, like, yeah, it's kind of important in a place where you don't know that many people. I would probably do the same. And now I think, big picture, when you look at this player, the best part about individual sports are where a guy chases greatness. I mean, the biggest individual of my lifetime would be Tiger Woods. I would say, I don't know, a close second, because I think Tiger is a lot bigger than Federer. But I think Roger Federer would fall under that as well, of just complete dominance. You know, I remember watching the documentary on Federer when other players were like, yeah, he's the best player I've ever seen. He's just like, he just doesn't get any better. He's literally great at everything. I always thought with Federer, it's not shocking that him and Tiger were really close. Obviously, they were Nike guys. But, like, did Roger sweat, you know, Tiger? One thing with Tiger, he sweated profusely. It's like, God, Tiger, I mean, you are. And I'm a sweater, too, so I can relate. I always thought watching Roger Federer a lot like Kawhi. It's like, is he even sweating? But we like in individual sports when a guy just dominates and wipes the floor with everyone else. And I do think Rory now has an opportunity. And we talked about this on the reaction pod after he won the Masters, and no one knows, and we won't know until the PGA Championship at Quail Hollow, a tournament and a course that he's had a lot of success on that if he kept the pedal to the metal, even if he takes this week to drink, hang out with family, screw around, not touch a golf club, whatever. He could take a couple weeks off, but if he gets back on the horse, dials back in, no one's playing better. He In 2025, not debatable. Best player in the world. He's won three times now. He's won the players. He's won the Masters. He's beat the best players consistently. Now, it doesn't mean, like, I know on the overall world ranking, Scottie Scheffler's the best player. That's based on 2024, as we sit here in the middle of April, 2025, he's the best player. And you could Argue there has been a little bit of a gap now Scotty's starting to get a swag back. But I do think it would be, I don't want to say an underachievement because winning majors are hard, but it would feel like a disappointment if Rory doesn't at least win one more major this year. We saw last year, that's very possible. Xander won two, and he had never even won a major. Hell, for a long time, Xander didn't even win that much. And I, I'm not saying the Grand Slam, I, I don't even. Not saying that it's not attainable, but I think it's a little unrealistic. You have one terrible round at a major which, if you play in four, you know, that's 16 rounds of one of your 16 rounds. You just miss a ball. OB hit another ball in the water, all of a sudden you shoot 60, 76. You're probably out of the tournament. So you could go three or four. But I do think chasing like immortality now becomes a lot more realistic. He had kind of the 800 pound gorilla on his back and listen, I thought it was going to break his back. We all did on Sunday. But now that he got over that hump, some of the devastating losses of recent memory, the US Open, the British Open at, at the Old Course a couple years ago to Cam Smith that, like, I wonder if he can just be free because he's one of the most talented players ever now he's playing the best he's ever played and it's pretty wide open this year. Quail Hollow, the Opens basically in his hometown, which last time he played it, I'm pretty sure the first shot of the tournament, he pumped it out of bounds, which was pretty devastating. I think he went like 78, 67 or something. I have to go back and look at Royal Port Rush. What was that, like six, seven years ago? Maybe not even that five, six years ago. But I think the season becomes a lot more fascinating now. Simply can, can Rory win another major? And he's going to be, I think, when the betting shapes itself out. I looked right after the Masters ended, you know, Scotty was like 3 to 1 to win the PGA Championship. Rory's up to 5 to 1. Would not shock me at all if Scotty, you know, continues to be a little bumpy for his standards. Based on last year, they're kind of the same by the time we get to the PGA Championship, both around four or five to one. I do think Scotty's a little inflated Right now, given that he hasn't won a tournament this year, I'm not saying he should be 10 to 1, but to me, him and Rory should be at a dead heap going into the next major. And I'd place that about five, six to one, because even when you're as great as Rory, being a 6 to 1 favorite against a field of 150 people is pretty insane. But. But he's earned that, and I'm fascinated to watch now. Like, can this guy just go chase it? You know, can this guy just find himself in a sweet spot and just rattle off three or four majors the next couple years? I'm not saying it's going to happen. I wouldn't even bet on it happening. But I definitely think he's equipped now if he's kind of shook all the demons that have been carrying over him and hanging over him to now just go dominate. And golf was never bigger than when Tiger just dominated. And I'm not saying he's going to do it at that level, but, like, if he could have a year where he won two or three majors and won six, seven times. I mean, part of what made Scotty season last year a little underwhelming is like, there was another guy on tour that won more majors than him in 2024. It was like Scotty Scheffler had a Tiger woods like season and won one major, which is unreal, but it was also a major that he'd already won, so it wasn't like he accomplished something new. And then Xander went out and won twice. And I remember Justin Thomas, at the end of the year, he's like, what season would you rather have?
- [39:58]
Greg Rosenthal
And.
- [39:58]
John Middlekauff
And Justin was like, well, you know, as a guy that's won a lot on the PGA Tour, I would take the two majors in all the top guys. And I mean, all the top guys would take the multiple majors. Now there are countless players on the PGA Tour that would easily take six, seven wins, $60 million, and a Masters. But Jordan, Speed, Justin Thomas, Ludwig, all the top guys, John Rom, you name Bryson, would take two majors in a year, even if it meant totally. You know, I think when it was all said and done, Xander made close to 30 and Scotty doubled them, which, again, all these guys are filthy rich. So is that money changing his life? Not necessarily, but I really hope for the game of golf. I think the best case scenario for the sport, now that we're in this kind of world where the tours are split and we only see these guys, would be, you know, Roy at least even if he won this next major and just give the buzz to win the Grand Slam going into the US Open. But honestly, if he just had a season where he won like three or four majors, I think it would immediately validate him as like we start talking like is he one of top five players of all time? Because how often I think Jack and Tiger are the, are the guys that went the longest between majors. You know, Jack was 75 to 86, Tiger was 08 to 19. Like 11 years between majors is a long time. If you look historically, most top players win most of their majors in a short period of time in a three or four year span. Hell, you look at Phil, he won Augusta 06. He won the Masters in 04, 06 and 2010. So basically in a six year span. And he threw another PGA Championship in there as well. He won the Open a little bit later and obviously out of nowhere won the PGA Championship a couple years ago at 50 years old, which no one saw coming. But for the most part, guys take advantage when they're really hot is why there was a ton of pressure. You know, Bryson won a couple US Opens. John Rom won a Masters in the US Open in a short period of time. You know, Koepka won his two US Opens and his two PGA Championships really, really close together. It was cool about, you know, seeing him win the PGA a couple years ago, but I think it's pretty important right now for Rory to pounce while the getting is good on a gambling standpoint to this weekend, I do think JT is going to win this year. And right now going into the RBC Heritage, he's 20 to 1. I think you remove Rory now. Scotty is the defending champ and he is basically what he always is. 3, 3 plus 350. So you got to bet $100 to win 350, which is insane in golf. He easily can win this week, but I think JT is going to win now. Is he going to win this week? I don't know, but I basically parlayed him. I think last year he was fourth in this event. So he's had success and he's playing really well. I'm out on JT and majors. Like it's just kind of undeniable in at the Masters, at the US Open, at the British Open. You just can't feel great about betting on Justin Thomas. But in these regular events and in these elevated events, he has brought a really high level of play. I think a top 10 for JT to me is an auto bet and then two other guys. You know Jordan Spieth has won here before. I think in 2022 he won in a playoff against Patrick Cantlay. Jason Day finished top 20 last year. If you parlay JT to top 10 with Spieth and Day to top 20, you can get a little above 10 to 1 odds. So. So I threw that out there on my socials. I'm throwing that down. I'm also sprinkling a little on Ludwig as well. But I like JT and I like Ludwig to definitely compete. Now Scotty, if you want to take that, I don't blame you. You would think Scotty's going to win sooner or later, but it's just hard for me to hammer Scotty at plus 300.
- [44:04]
T-Mobile Representative
T Mobile stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to 800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualified unlocked device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card is no cash access and expires in six months.
- [44:36]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [44:42]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [44:44]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [44:52]
John Middlekauff
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [44:55]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle. Thanks for having me, Jeremy. Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [45:02]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [45:03]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [45:08]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [45:12]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [45:20]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [45:28]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:34]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [46:10]
John Middlekauff
I did want to get to some mailbag questions @gopod. At golopod is the Instagram. So I'm going to bang out a bunch right now. Question for the mailbag. Watching the Masters and witnessing Dunlop shoot at 90, I had this debate all the time with my buddy who is a scratch golfer, and I tell him he wouldn't break 90 there. He disagrees. What do you think you're shooting from the master tees? Well, it depends. If your buddy's like a scratch and played at like USC or the University of Texas, then like, yeah, he, he could go there and excel. But if your buddy's a scratch golfer and just was like, I played in high school, I picked up the game and I'm just a good player now at my, at my country club or at where I play, he'd have absolutely no chance in Masters conditions to shoot 90. None. I think, from their tease. I'm not a good putter. I'm a really, really bad putter. So even if my irons and woods were working, there's no way I could break 100. I would never be able to putt on those greens. They're just too fast. I would three putt and I would three and four putt every green. It would be a miracle to two putt some of those greens. The other thing is, I guess depending on how I'm swinging, I don't hit the ball that high. Well, if you can't hit the ball really high there, how do you hold the greens? So I, I'm like a four or five handicap. I wouldn't, there's no way I'd break 100, especially the first time. Some of those lies, you gotta. My ball, I don't naturally hit a draw. I mean, ideally it's a cut. You gotta work the ball right to left there. I don't necessarily know how to do that consistently. And if I do, sometimes I duck hook it. It'd be in the trees, I think. I think your buddy That's a scratch golfer. I'd bet $1,000 right now. From their tees, their pins, their conditions, no fucking way. Shoot 90. How long did it take you to actually feel like you can confidently swing off the box, in the fairway and on the green? I'm two and a half years into golf and I'm 25. It just seems impossible with a full time job to become semi good at the game. Yeah, I mean, it's tough. I mean, I don't think you ever feel completely confident. I think you do some rounds when you're playing well, but half the time you're terrified over the ball. You're like, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what's going to go. I think that's what makes the game so fun, is that even the best players struggle. So if you have a full time job like most humans do, that play golf, it's going to be very difficult. And most of us, including myself, like, I don't really practice that much. I just kind of play. The only way to get better at golf is practice and play. So I think you just got to live with it. One thing I've really tried to do is, you know, over the last month I've shot 88 and I've shot 76 and I guess there was one blow up actually on one hole, which I regret is kind of embarrassing. Now. Granted, we were gambling, but threw a hat, threw a little tantrum. It was kind of just, I've been getting made fun of by the guys I was playing with since. But it's like, try to enjoy yourself. Like, you get outside, you get some fresh air. Especially most of us work inside. Right. It's just, it's just an enjoyable experience. So, yeah, you're gonna suck or not be very good. Plus you're 25. Like the best part about golf is at 25 years old, assuming you stay relatively healthy, you're going to be able to play potentially for the next 50 plus years. You're not going to be able to play tennis that long. You're not going to be able to, you know, most physical activity, definitely even workouts are going to have to dramatically change as you get older. So it's probably the only activity you're going to be able to do in your 70s, potentially 80s. Hell, Gary Player had the first tee shot at the masters. He's 90 years old. Finish. Watching Rory put on the green J. As I was rooting for Rory during the playoff, I couldn't help but wonder about his conservative approach after he had a four shot lead. I remember Tiger putting a stranglehold on leads, but I don't think the Tour had the same abundance of talent. Obviously, if he executes a little better, Rory would have been fine. But I can't help but second guess his thinking. My question is, do you agree with a conservative approach? And if so, how much do you think you need to have going to the back nine to start playing conservative? Well, I think that's what makes Augusta unique, is starting on the back nine. I mean, if a guy gets hot, he can either birdie 10 or 11, which by no means are a lock. It's probably easier to birdie 10 than 11, but you can birdie 10, you can birdie your eagle 13, you can birdie your eagle 15, you can, you can birdie 14, you definitely can birdie 16, you know, 18 on Sunday, like if you hit a good drive, very birdieable. So you can have huge swings on the back nine at Augusta. And I think if you're Rory, like, you play a draw, so it's pretty easy to just play your draw and then go for it. Okay, you hit it in the. Drink the water. A red stake penalty is not out of bounds. You can drop the ball, you're chipping four, and worst case scenario, you get a bogey. But when you lay up and something disastrous happens, as did the Rory double comes into play. So I think I've heard some people argue is like, the chances of him messing up that chip in that situation are slim to none. And I would say, yeah, except he did. So you hit it in the, you hit it in Ray's Creek, which the dude from ASU took a leak in, who called it a river. It would be the smallest river in the history of rivers. That I just think on that whole, whether you're up 10 or whether you're even par with someone, I think that, I think it's just an auto go for these guys, especially Rory, who works the ball right to left like that's his shot, just let it rip. And worst case scenario for him, like the chance of him going to his wall in the water on a second shot, probably not that high. Now he could, he could pull it to the left part of the green, to the sand, to the left side of the operation, but he's flying the water. So I think if he'd have that back, I don't think we'll ever see him lay up again like that. And I don't think there's a Number where you lay up maybe for up like 10, but three or four, one thing we've seen proven is you can have three, four shot swings and a couple holes at the back nine there. My question is, do you think we'll ever See anyone win 4 majors in a single season, excluding Bobby Jones, obviously. Tiger won three in 2000 and there have been multiple double major winners in a season. I don't think it'll ever be done. But at the same time, I'm sure people in their 70s and 80s thought Jack Nicklaus would record would be broken when Tiger came along. Yeah, I think it's probably pretty unlikely. I think the best case scenario we could see would be Tiger, you know, three majors in a year. I mean, Xander won two. I think Scotty definitely could do it. I think Rory, it's definitely possible this year. I mean he's going to be assuming everything. He stays healthy and his game stays in form. I mean he is going to be heavily favored and bet on to win the PGA Championship and the British Open. Now the US Opens at Oakmont. I have a good family friend and good buddies, Tyler and Scotty. Tyler played at UC Davis. He was a really good player. And in 2016 he qualified. He Monday qualified, played in the US Open. His brother Scotty caddied for them for him then. And I text him the other day, Scotty, I said, how hard is this course? Like, would Bryson have any chance hitting his irons like he did at the US Open? He said, absolutely not. You bogey any hole you met. It is a. I think some people consider it one of, if not the hardest major course in the country. So in that scenario it, you know, Rory could be play okay and good and loose. It's just US Opens are really weird. Pinehurst a unique setup. So was lacc. This one, like, I don't know, I wouldn't. I don't feel confident gambling on Rory to win that. But I think the PGA Championship and the Open, I think if he doesn't win one of those two, it's going to be disappointing. So I, I'd say threes on the table. I'm with you for that'd be insane. If Rory were to do it though, it would, it would take him to legendary status pretty quick. Have you ever taken Maria golfing with you? If so does she like it and how do you like it? You know, I try to separate church from state, but I've taken her a couple times. She has clubs. I played with her one time. She had a friend who, who brought Another dude and we played. He was actually a good player. We had a good time, had some beers. It was pretty, pretty lax. She's, you know, play a couple holes and then kind of get bored. It's hard because like we talked about earlier, she's, she never plays. So she, it's very challenging. It's hard to hit the ball. It becomes if you never play and then go try to play and I like take her to TPC Scottsdale. The hole is really long. The desert, especially here in Arizona. It's like if you crank one, you're in a cactus. It's just not a fun activity if you don't play and you suck. So she'd rather just have a cocktail and hang out. If you could play one round with any current top pro, who would it be and why? Well, could I shoot it for the YouTube page? Because if I could do that I would probably, I would even do Bryson as a little collab. I mean you take his couple million followers or I do someone that doesn't typically do that type stuff. You know, Rory took a shot at the YouTubers and if you told me I could do it like this Friday play with someone, it'd be a no brainer be Rory McElroy. But I think Bryson be pretty high up there. I think Scotty would be big. But yeah, I think, I think Rory or Bryson is the Choice. What's your $0.02 on why Liv? Guys fell off their game when they switched thinking of Rahm and Koepka. Do they not have enough competition to keep them motivated? Do they have enough money and they don't see the reason to pursue greatness anymore? You know, I think Rahm showed signs of life after the first round which he basically shot himself out of the, the tournament on the first round. I do think it's hard when you're playing in events that don't matter. Like all these guys, Ron Koepka, D.J. they've won the biggest events in America. They've won the biggest PGA tournaments from the waste management to Memorial to Riv to Torrey Pines to majors and then they go to live and they like none of it matters. And they also got hundreds of millions of dollars. So think about yourself. If you have a job that takes a lot of energy and a lot of focus and I pay you 50x whatever you're making to do the same job somewhere else. But also the outcome of whatever you're doing, whether it is a good job or bad, doesn't matter. You would just like iron sharpens iron. So like, look at, look at the major champions over the last four majors. Bryson, who is very driven right now, clearly, I mean, Bryson's just a driven guy. But you remove Bryson, the last five majors are Xander, Schoffley's 1, 2, Scotty's one another, and Rory. So it's like those guys are playing against each other constantly. Where, yeah, Rom and Koepka DJ are playing against each other, but it's like, how do they take it seriously? Shotgun starts three rounds. I don't even blame them. If I was Koepka, how could I possibly be as dialed? You couldn't. DJ clearly doesn't even give a shit. Which again, I don't blame him. I think it's probably bothering Rom a lot. But like, how does he dial in? Like, what's he supposed to do? He's used to, like, how do I get ready? Well, I play Torrey Pines, I play Riv, I play the Waste management, I play the players. And then going into the Masters, I'm pretty dialed in. And then I just go on the rotation of the top tournaments. I play the RBC Heritage, I play the Memorial. Well, now it's like I'm playing some random course in Chicago again. That's what the money was for though. Would it be possible to get daily round recaps for all the majors from you this year? Also sad to see Rory's day fall apart. Would anyone have expected Justin Rose to have the day he had? No, they wouldn't. I think the problem for what I do is, you know, from a podcast standpoint, it would kind. For a video standpoint, it's not a terrible idea. Maybe I could do like a 10 minute recap. But I usually try to, you know, Lully snoring right there. For those of you watching, you can see her. For those of you listening, dogs on the, on the couch, just sawing logs. It's her birthday tomorrow, so I brought her into the office and sat her on the couch and she just fell asleep. But everything we do gets double distributed on one on video and one on audio and a lot of work. The other thing is on Thursday, you know, we tend to do a Friday podcast that's revolving around football. But yeah, I mean, I've thought about it. I obviously like the no laying up guys do it. The shotgun start guys do it. I follow a lot of their content. But I also have, you know, I do unlike that these other people in golf. Like I do football year round. So I'm constantly podcasting non stop. If I don't want to get a divorce, I have to kind of give some time to my ever growing family. Whose bag do you think would be the most fun to caddy for on the LIV Tour or on the tour or liv? What guy is the perfect mix of fun but would also win big and make you a lot of cash? Phil Bryson, a Berg and Homa Pre this season all seem to be awesome big winners and would totally grab a beer with you after. Whereas Morikawa, Rory, J.T. spieth would be too stressful and Scotty wins a ton, but seems too vanilla of a guy. I think you're underestimating the stress level would be high on any of these guys. You know, Phil's 50 years old, but I think Phil would have been fun in 20 years ago. Let's face it, if you were going to do it, you would go all the way in the last 25. It'd be no doubt you would want to do Tiger Woods. Wouldn't even be a question. I would say the next guy, I think it'd be like Rory or Phil. You would just, you would choose the top guys. It's why a couple years ago the dude left Ricky Fowler went to Tom Kim. It was like, oh, this guy's, you know, upgrading a new younger guy. And then Ludwig became available and, and Joe left. Tom Kim immediately went to Ludwig. So I think as a caddy, none of these guys, you know, I, I listen to a lot of PGA Tour radio, like when I'm driving around and listen to like Rocco and guys like that have shows. Lucas Glover. The day and age of these guys, like going out for beers on Wednesdays and Thursdays and Friday does not exist. So if you became a caddy, you would just want the best player possible. Like you're, you're not. You might hang out with them sometimes on like Monday or Tuesday during the round, and you're cool, but I just think you would want the, the best talent. I think it's just that simple. I don't. I think you're overthinking it a little bit. You kind of want the perfect world. It's like you want her to be hot, you want her to be skinny, you want her to cook, clean, you want her to make a lot of money as well. Great mother. It's like that's not really the way it works. I think you would just choose best player possible. So to me, in 2025, if Rory's not available, who would be? I think Ludwig be the next choice. Young, long future career. Now I think guys like, like Jordan Spieth, he actually seems pretty cool and pretty fun, but like you said, very stressful. And two, not that good anymore. Scotty. I probably choose Scotty. Like, yeah, Scotty hit eight iron here and then he hits it five feet. I would just, I wouldn't overthink any of the other stuff. I would just choose who are my best players. I would just choose the best player because I, I think the way that historically we looked at it, like, you get to play with those guys. It's. Or hang out with those guys doesn't exist. Why did the Masters coverage not put Bryson in a feature group? Last year, Brooks was in one. After winning the PGA Championship, Bryson is the reigning US Open champion, easily a top five player in the world, and probably the third most popular player behind Roaring Tiger. Is it that he went to live? Is he. He is more entertaining to watch. And why doesn't the broadcast start earlier? Well, the broadcast doesn't start earlier because the Masters, like, dictates the terms. I do think a couple years ago Bryson took some shots at Augusta, called it a par 67. And like, these guys, don't forget that. You know, there are rumors that they basically told the kid that pissed in the creek, like, you're never coming back here. You're done. You're done here, buddy. Now if he gets so good and starts winning tournaments, they're not going to be able to do it. But, like, it is a very. And listen, I mean this with all due respect. If there are any green jackets listening. I love your club. I view it like heaven. And if it's ever available, I would love to come play. But it is by far, you know, it's. It's as stiff as it gets. And I've heard stories about former athletes, one that might be a member there kind of a famous quarterback that's got a tongue lashing like they don't give a shit. It has nothing. It's one of the rare super exclusive clubs that in a weird way, money doesn't mean shit. The hardest part is getting in. And it has nothing to do. Obviously you got to be rich and famous or whatever or powerful to be in the mix. But it's not like the dues and the down payment to get in. It's not like it's 10 million to join. I've heard it's like, yeah, it doesn't even matter. We might not even have to cut a check. And there aren't really dues there. I think it's complicated how that works. It's not like Your typical club. But they do not screw around. They just do not. And I think the phone policy speaks for itself. In what world can you not have phones? Think about that. So I just think that Bryson's pissed him off years ago and they don't forget. And his comments, regardless how well he did last year. You think those guys care that he has 2 million followers on. On YouTube? Like they just do not care at all. What is on the notepad for the players that they bust out? What do they have on the notepad? Would love to know more. What sport do you think is more mentally focused than golf? So much time with your thoughts. How do these players prepare for that? And what's a good type of golf bet? I think top tens and top twenties are always easy. I think the only way you mentally prepare for anything is to practice as hard as possible. No different than football. It's why you go full go in practice. You know, in basketball they don't practice anymore. But historically, like practice and scrimmages were pretty intense. You know, in baseball, getting ready, you do live BP and stuff like that. In golf, the only way you can prepare is to actually play and put pressure. It's why these guys gamble. It's not necessarily to like bet other guys. It's like put pressure on putts and put pressure on shots. So I think you just build up mental reps on like I would imagine when you're young in pro golf, when you first get out to the PGA Tour, having thousands of people watch you is pretty nerve wracking. Well, one thing you notice like after a while, all these guys, whether you're Rory or whether you're the random guy in the tournament, are unfazed by the crowd that they are. Because you become, you become used to it. And I think the mental focus, you become at least understand what you have to do to dial in. And some of that's pre shot routine, some of that's keeping the same tendencies, some of that's breathing. You know, Rory's talked a lot about keeping your mouth shut in tournaments. Breathing through your nose calms you down. And those books, you know, the masters don't allow green reading books. So it's a lot of just notes from your practice rounds, yardages, just. I don't know, I bet it changes player to player, but it's just notes based on playing that hole throughout the week and throughout the years.
- [67:14]
T-Mobile Representative
T mobile's stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel. Because T mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch. Up to four lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allowed 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service support in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.
- [67:45]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people.
- [67:51]
John Middlekauff
You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.
- [67:54]
Jeremy Hobson
That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.
- [68:02]
John Middlekauff
Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.
- [68:04]
Jeremy Hobson
Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.
- [68:09]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [68:09]
Jeremy Hobson
Jeremy Neil DeGrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.
- [68:12]
John Middlekauff
Thanks for having me.
- [68:13]
Jeremy Hobson
And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.
- [68:17]
John Middlekauff
Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.
- [68:21]
Jeremy Hobson
And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.
- [68:30]
John Middlekauff
We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.
- [68:38]
Jeremy Hobson
Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [68:44]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [69:20]
John Middlekauff
I saw a video of Jordan talking about mud balls. He was saying you're not allowed to talk about mud balls and how it affects the ball flight, contact with the club face. If that's the case, why aren't more guys that come out and complain about it? I feel like he's just complaining because his play is not good. Recently, I Agree. He's not wrong. You're not supposed to use the word mud balls. A couple years ago when they had the Masters in 2020 in the fall, obviously was wet. They called it. Organic matter, I think was the term they used. I did think he came off pretty bitter. It's like Jordan, Rory, Rory having mud balls. Is Justin Rose having mud balls? Has Bryson been having mud balls? Like, that's something. Now he's in a unique position because he's won the tournament and he owns a green jacket. It's like they don't like that shit. And these people have a lot of power. It's like a secret society, but it's not secret. So I would imagine he pissed a lot of people off by saying it. Because you're right, it did come off. It didn't impact Rory, like, Rory didn't say, you know, on 13, why hit it in the creek? Mud ball. I'm with you there. First time sending you a note. Other than I love the dabble in my two favorite things, other than my wife, obviously, football and golf. I have always loved Rory, certainly because of his talent, charisma, etc. However, I didn't realize until the Masters why he was so likable by the masses, at least in my opinion. I'm a scratch golfer and I'm in awe of his prowess with the driver and overall talent. It's truly something that average golfer can't comprehend. Totally agree. Rory's flying the ball 330 yards. He's five nine. I mean, Bryson's big, DJ's big. Koepka looks like a linebacker. Rory's tiny. But the couple wedges at 13 and the other short missed putts make him seem human. So we admire his superhero talent, yet are endured because he is still, quote unquote, one of us. Other than Phil, can you think of any other athlete that is a comp? I think in golf, Jordan Spieth, when he's playing well, is a lot like that because Jordan can have like seven straight birdies and then he can have two straight triples. So I think Jordan has always had a feel like quality to. You didn't know what was going to happen. Which anytime you can have, I don't know what's going to happen. Tiger, you knew it was inevitable. Even Mahomes and Brady, they might not always win the super bowl, but it's like, yeah, they're going to win this game. It's like inevitable they're going to win this game. I mean, this chief season was, I guess they threw the last game, but they went 15 and 2 and it was like, by October, you're like, yeah, they're not going to lose this. Yeah, they're going to figure it out. Like, the Broncos miss a kick and it's like, it's inevitable. That's the thing with golf. It's just beside Tiger, it's not inevitable. And you never know. Phil, Rory, anything can happen. Jordan, remember last time he won the Open when he beat Kutcher? He pumped it. I forget where they were playing, but he pumped like seven holes to the right and then still knocked it on. And then he made the putt. He pointed at Greller to get the ball out of the hole. So I think anytime an athlete is quote unquote relatable, it makes it more powerful. I mean, I would say the most powerful or popular and definitely most lucrative athlete that does like studio television, not even close is Charles Barkley. And I would say Charles, number one quality is like, he feels like a guy easy to have a conversation with. And whenever he tells a story, it's like, Charles, where did you get that ring you're wearing? Or Charles, where did you get that? Whatever. And he's like, oh, this guy, my gym sauna, gay. You know, it's just, he can just tell stories. Like, Charles Barkley feels like a human being that if you ran into at the store, at the gas station, at the 7:11, grabbing some Doritos and a Coke Zero. No free ads. But that's usually my, my order. If I'm feeling a little frisky, you could just have a five minute conversation with Charles Barkley. And I think Rory feels like that. I think Steph Curry has always had that element. He just seems like an easy guy to talk to. And you know, some people can fake it, right? I love Peyton Manning, but some people think, you know, it's like him and Phil have this quality. Can they fake it a little bit? I don't know. I mean, I, I would love to talk to Peyton or Phil. I'd take my chances. But depending on who you talk to, you rarely hear anyone say anything negative. Like, yeah, I met Steph Curry. He was a dick. Yeah, met Charles Barkley. Total asshole. Ran into Rory, wouldn't talk to me like, that's. That story doesn't exist yet. You get Michael Jordan, like most of my. Which makes him like this legendary figure. Same with Tiger. It's like Tiger took the Navy Seals out for cheeseburgers and then made them pick up the check. So it's like, what? But he's so good. It's like we overlook it. That's why I was so stupid about the story that went viral of Bryson going, yeah, Rory didn't talk to me. Well, yeah, Bryson, it's Sunday at the Masters and Rory is a two shot lead. Did you want him to give like a breakdown of what he feeds his daughter? Like, what do you think he was going to say? It's how Tiger became alleged. He wouldn't talk to anybody. Tony Fino's talked about this countless times. Like Tony tried to like say something to him in 2019 about his kids and Tiger just like, yeah, wouldn't talk to him. And obviously in. By 2019, that had been the number one driving, like storyline with Tiger most of his career. He didn't say anything to anybody and played dominant mind games. So, yeah, yeah, Bryson, Roy probably doesn't like you that much. One and two. He's just trying to win this thing. I wouldn't be talking much either, and I talk for a living. Okay, last question here. My question, in the wake of the Masters, in this, if peak Tiger was a hundred out of 100, how would you rate peak Rory? How about Bryson, Scotty and others, past or present? I find it fun to put golfers into context. Well, if Tiger, let's do this 10 out of 10. I would say unless you do the 25 years. I would say the guy with the highest rating would be, you know, the peak of Tiger, perfect golfer. The next would be Phil. And I would say Phil would be like 9.2. Like Phil's not even. Phil's not. Phil's getting an A minus. Right. If Tigers and A plus. So then you have to base it off that. I would say Rory's like a nine out of ten. I would put Scotty. Scotty's had moments last year, but he's won the same major twice. Again, these are really. I mean, If Tiger is 10 out of 10, that standard doesn't get any higher. I would say Scotty 8.6, Bryson below him at like 8.2. And again, these are insane standards. Right? You know, Bryson, Bryson's an excellent putter and obviously distance elite, but he can get pretty squirrely. I mean, balls. Even last year at the US Open, he was pumping balls all over the place. Now at any moment he can pump it down the fairway and knock it 5ft on a 600 yard hole. Like that's his superpower and so can Rory. But I would say Rory is dramatically straighter than Bryson and his wedges have gotten much better. So, like, we're seeing peak Rory, like, this is peak worry. And to me, he. This peak version is close to Phil. Shows you how great Tiger was. I would say Bryson. We haven't seen peak Bryson yet. Potentially. I mean, who knows? I mean, if this is good, he's going to be. This is damn good. But if he is going to get a higher number and be close to Rory or Phil, he can't really work the ball right, which to me, like, part of what makes Tiger a 10 out of 10. And I'd say the same with Phil. They had every shot in the back from tee all the way to the hole, every single shot, left and right, high and low. Like, let's face it, Bryson is going to sound like a shot. It's not. He's a one trick pony. He plays a power draw. He ain't hitting cuts. Right. Rory can. Obviously his go to shot is the draw, but you see him play the cut off the tee. Played it on 18 in regulation and then again in the in the playoff. Like, Bryson doesn't hit that shot. He just doesn't. Which is there an evolution where Bryson's ever going to work the ball both ways? Now, just because you work the ball both ways doesn't mean you're like some dominant player, right? JT has every shot in the bag, and he's all over the map sometimes. But I would say tiger 10 out of 10. Phil probably 92 out of 10. I'd start Rory in the nines. I'd give him a 9 0. Which, I mean, if he goes on to win, like three majors this year, maybe we put him right there with Phil, but everyone else is start with an 8. For sure. The volume.
- [78:39]
Jeremy Hobson
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarized. Polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week, we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [79:09]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need. This NFL draft season, from DJs mock drafts to my top 101 free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.