Daniel Cormier GOES IN ON Ilia Topuria #1 P4P ranking over Islam Makhachev

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode: 3 Rounds w/Din Thomas - Daniel Cormier GOES IN ON Ilia Topuria #1 P4P ranking over Islam Makhachev
Release Date: July 6, 2025
Host: Daniel Cormier
Guest: Dean Thomas
Sponsor: Total Wireless (Skipped in Summary)

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1. Introduction and Guest Welcome [02:42 - 03:14]

Daniel Cormier opens the episode with enthusiastic greetings, introducing Dean Thomas as the guest for the discussion. Cormier highlights his own training camp activities and teasing the topic of the day: the recent rise of Ilia Topuria in the pound-for-pound (P4P) rankings.

Quote:

"Ilia Topuria last weekend beat Charles Oliveira to become the lightweight champion, making him a double champ. Now, Ilia Toporia on yesterday was announced as the new number one pound for pound fighter in the world."
— Daniel Cormier [04:03]

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2. Ilia Topuria's #1 P4P Ranking Debate [03:14 - 07:03]

Cormier and Thomas delve into Ilia Topuria's recent achievements, discussing his victory over Charles Oliveira and his ascent to the top of the P4P rankings. Dean Thomas expresses strong agreement with Topuria's ranking, emphasizing his impressive strength of schedule and technical prowess.

Key Points:

• Topuria's Performance: Dominant victories, including a first-round knockout of Oliveira.
• Ranking Justification: Thomas cites Topuria's consistent performance and quality of opponents as reasons for his #1 P4P status.
• Future Implications: Discussion revolves around whether Topuria's ranking will hold or if Islam Makhachev can reclaim the top spot.

Notable Quote:

"Ilot Toria as the number one pound for pound fighter in the world. No doubt about it."
— Dean Thomas [04:28]

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3. Potential Matchup: Ilia Topuria vs. Islam Makhachev [05:45 - 07:43]

The conversation shifts to the potential showdown between Ilia Topuria and Islam Makhachev. Dean Thomas confidently predicts Topuria's victory over Makhachev, critiquing Makhachev's past performances and questioning his ability to adapt to Topuria's fighting style.

Key Points:

• Thomas's Prediction: Topuria will defeat Makhachev, solidifying his P4P standing.
• Makhachev's Challenges: Struggles with taking opponents down, particularly against top-tier fighters like Alexander Volkanovski.
• Ranking Dynamics: If Makhachev wins against other contenders, the dynamics of the P4P rankings could shift again.

Notable Quote:

"I think he beats Islam."
— Dean Thomas [05:45]

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4. Jamal Hill's Struggles and Performance Analysis [07:03 - 12:29]

The discussion transitions to Jamal Hill, a former champion currently experiencing a three-fight losing streak. Thomas critiques Hill's preparation and training discipline, suggesting that physical and technical shortcomings are hindering his performance.

Key Points:

• Hill's Excuses: Claims of injuries and not being at his optimal level.
• Thomas's Critique: Accuses Hill of lack of responsibility and insufficient training, leading to predictable fight outcomes.
• Path Forward: Believes Hill can recover within the light heavyweight division if he improves his game and maintains discipline.

Notable Quote:

"He's become predictable. He's got to add more stuff to his game."
— Dean Thomas [11:52]

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5. Media Responsibility in Reporting Fighters' Stories [18:12 - 20:39]

Cormier and Thomas engage in a critical discussion about the media's role in accurately reporting fighters' personal stories and the ethical responsibilities that come with having a large platform.

Key Points:

• Accuracy and Verification: Emphasize the need to fact-check stories before broadcasting.
• Impact of Misinformation: Highlight how spreading unverified rumors can damage fighters' reputations.
• Personal Responsibility: Both agree that journalists and media personalities must prioritize truthfulness over sensationalism.

Notable Quotes:

"You have a responsibility to tell the truth and to do your homework."
— Dean Thomas [19:46]

"You have to always preface everything you say with rumor has it, or allegedly."
— Dean Thomas [20:39]

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6. Refereeing and Fight Stoppages Responsibility [22:04 - 23:03]

The topic shifts to the role of referees in ensuring fighter safety, referencing specific instances where referee decisions were questioned.

Key Points:

• Case Study - Jack Hermanson: Discusses a recent knockout and the subsequent actions (or lack thereof) by the referee.
• Referee's Role: Emphasizes the importance of referees making split-second decisions to protect fighters.
• Shared Responsibility: Acknowledges that both referees and fighters have roles in maintaining fight integrity and safety.

Notable Quote:

"The ref should have tackled him."
— Dean Thomas [22:39]

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7. Final Thoughts on Ilia Topuria's Impact and Character [23:03 - 27:38]

In concluding the episode, Cormier reflects on Ilia Topuria's influence both inside and outside the Octagon. He contrasts Topuria's demeanor with that of other fighters like Conor McGregor, emphasizing Topuria's respectful and humble nature.

Key Points:

• Topuria's Character: Portrayed as a grounded and confident fighter who commands respect.
• Public Perception: Addresses the polarized reactions to Topuria, advocating for recognition of his genuine persona.
• Future Prospects: Optimistic about Topuria's continued success and positive influence in the sport.

Notable Quote:

"He is watching an individual who believes that only success lies ahead of them every time they step into the octagon."
— Daniel Cormier [27:38]

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8. Closing Remarks (Skipped Advertisements and Outros)

The episode wraps up without covering any advertisements or non-content segments, ensuring that the focus remains on the in-depth discussions and insights shared between Daniel Cormier and Dean Thomas.

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Conclusion:

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers a comprehensive analysis of Ilia Topuria's standing in the P4P rankings, the potential impact of a fight against Islam Makhachev, and a critical look at Jamal Hill's recent performances. Additionally, it underscores the ethical responsibilities of the media in reporting accurate information and the crucial role referees play in fighter safety. Dean Thomas provides candid and insightful commentary throughout, making this episode a valuable listen for MMA enthusiasts seeking detailed discussions on current sports topics.

Transcript

[Daniel Cormier]

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[Daniel Cormier]

Welcome to a brand new episode of Three Rounds brought to you by Total Wireless, the official wireless provider of UFC. They're in your corner with unlimited 5G network that will not slow you down. So you know last week in Ilia Tapor, you became a UFC double champion. And you know how much I love a fight. That's why I enjoy doing three rounds so much. So I've been in training camp. Last time I didn't bust somebody up the head on this show was Chris Wyman two years ago. And they've been refusing, they've been running. So in comes Dean Thomas to try to step up to the challenge. What's up, Dino?

[Dean Thomas]

I ain't running from nobody. When I heard the challenge was out there, I was the first one to step up. Because I'm here to take your head clean off your shoulders.

[Daniel Cormier]

Hey, this boy about to try to bust my ass. But, hey, that's why we train. That's why we train, that's why we get ready. Hey, y' all know that we don't put about 20, 30 episodes of three rounds in the bank for us. So, you know, I'm ready for the fight. So let's go. Ilia Toporia last weekend beat Charles Oliveira to become the lightweight champion, making him a double champ. Now, Ilia Toporia on yesterday was announced as the new number one pound for pound fighter in the world. Dean Thomas, do you agree with that? Do you think, though, that by Illy becoming the lightweight champion, his problem, number one?

[Dean Thomas]

Absolutely. When you look at his strength of schedule, when you look at the guys that he's beaten, he was already even without the Charles Oliveira win. He was already in the ranking to being one of the best, I would say top three. Top five for sure, baby. Top three. But the win over Charles Oliveira, first round knockout solidifies Ilot Toria as the number one pound for pound fighter in the world. No doubt about it.

[Daniel Cormier]

So, Dino, I was talking to Armand Tsarukian yesterday, and he said to me it was expected that Ilya would beat Charles Oliveira. So that has no bearing on the entire thing. The fact that he won a fight that many say he was supposed to, I get it. But I must say this. I agree. I think pound for pound is. Does your fighting style translate weight classes? We saw by knocking out Volkanovski, by knocking out Holloway, his fighting style is effective at 145. Before he started as a bantamweight, it was effective there because he's undefeated. Now he's the lightweight champion. I agree. I think that at this point, he is number one pound for pound. Because he has shown that his fighting style, regardless of the weight cast, is effective. But not only effective, Dino, he is knocking dudes out. So. So the power has followed him up to lightweight as it was at 145.

[Dean Thomas]

He's so clean. It's his technique and it's not necessarily just his power. Like he's like bench pressing all this weight. His technique is so clean that when he's hitting guys and he's hitting them right on the spot, they can't hold up. I believe that he'll knock out anybody from anywhere up until 170. I do believe his power will translate into 170. I really believe.

[Daniel Cormier]

Wait, so wait, so you're telling. So telling me. So you're telling me right now you think he beats Islam?

[Dean Thomas]

I think he beats Islam.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, my God.

[Dean Thomas]

I always thought he would be Islam. Here's why. Because Islam, I think Islam had struggled with the. In the Volkanovsky fight, the very first Volkanovsky fight, he struggled with getting underneath Alexander Volkanovsky. Islam struggled to get underneath him to be able to take him down. He's going to have a hard time getting underneath Toporia. He's going to have a hard time getting underneath Toporia to take him down. If he don't take him down, he's getting knocked out.

[Daniel Cormier]

So I would imagine that you don't agree with my next point then, because I was going to say he is the number one pound for pound fighter today. But if Islam is able to beat Jack Della Maddalena, it flips again and Islam goes back to number one pound for pound. Only because it is. Dean, Dean, listen. Only because it is fighting style will then be proven to go up to the next weight class. So then Islam will have done everything Topori has done at a heavier weight. Four title defenses at 155 and then the new champion at welterweight. So yes, I agree he is pomfonbal number one today, but I think the moment if Islam is able to win, he then goes back to pompoman number one.

[Dean Thomas]

Absolutely not. Because the win over Jack Della Madeleina doesn't really prove it. I mean, in fact, Jack was like ranked 7 until he won the belt. But this Jackson, Jack's not a Hall of Famer. Like the way he don't have the strength to schedule the Ilia got Ilya.

[Daniel Cormier]

Right now will only fight fights he's supposed to win until he fights Islam. Because every one of his challengers right now he's minus 600 against Paddy, he's minus 300 against Arman, he's minus 350. Against Justin, only person he's an underdog to is Makhachev.

[Dean Thomas]

So.

[Daniel Cormier]

So if Makach becomes the welterweight champ, doesn't he go back to pompom number one?

[Dean Thomas]

Dean Absolutely not. The fact that Ilia is such a strong favorite already says enough about how good he we think he is.

[Daniel Cormier]

I think he's great too.

[Dean Thomas]

And if, if, if Mahachev beats Jack Della Madalina, that to me that's not really the, the feather in his cap that he needs. He needs to beat a stronger opponent. I think he needs to beat a Hall of Famer. If he would have, if he were to knock out Kamar Usman, that would be different.

[Daniel Cormier]

If Islam wins that belt at 170, does it make him pound for pound number one again or does Ilia still stay there? Because Ilya does have a claim for it. The kid is phenomenal. He is an amazing fighter. He's tremendous. But I just think that the reason he jumped him is because he just won his second belt. But the moment Islam does, if he does, I think he goes back to number one. Round two, Dino Jamal Hill. That was a good round. I mean, you pressed me against the cage a little bit using a couple body shots, but it's okay though. It's okay. I come back, hey, round two. Former champion Jamal Hill is on a three fight losing streak now. A lot of times, Dean, when people start to lose, they start to kind of talking and trying to explain what's going on. Jamal said, a lot is made of the thing I said before my fight that Khalil Rountree was not on my level. And I said the same thing about my last few fights. He said it's on YouTube. But he said, to be honest, I haven't been on my level for a while. I haven't been on that level for quite some time. People underestimated the extent of my injuries with his Achilles and his knees. What do you make of that? What do you make of Jamal Hill saying that as he's on this streak of bad luck?

[Dean Thomas]

Well, I wish he had told us before that he wasn't going to be worth a damn. I mean, I'm out there, I'm out there co signing for my brother like, yo, my man's going to go out there and do big things. And then every time he showed up, and I don't want to say he let us down, but he let himself down.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes.

[Dean Thomas]

And it's unfortunate that he let himself down because I had high hopes for Jamal Hill and. And he let himself down and indirectly let us all down, those who believed in him.

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, so here's the thing, right? He was a. He was a world champ. So clearly he had a ton of potential. I think what you said leads to this very next quote. He said, I'm a natural talent. We see that a lot in people that have a lot of talent and they don't necessarily reach that potential. I see that constantly with my wrestlers. He said, things come naturally to me at a certain level. Before I could just hang around outside of camp, do whatever I wanted or things the way I wanted to do them. When I was in camp, I was able to put work at a level that I feel put me in a very good position to go on and put on performances that I put on early in my career. It brings it back to a quote my coaches told me a long time ago. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. He said his work output may have been up, but he's got to do more. He's got to work harder, grind harder. Hey, Dean. He said his last three camps, at the lowest, he was maybe 260 pounds. Last camp, he was 265. Before the. Before the fight camp started.

[Dean Thomas]

I mean, and that's irresponsible. That's nuts. That's irresponsible. And that should have never happened because if he's trying to get back on track to being a champion, he can't allow his weight to get up like that. He's got to constantly be in the gym. And another thing he's got to do is I think he needs to add more stuff to his game. I mean, it's really. He's become predictable. He's got to add more stuff to his game. The fortunate thing for him is if he wants to turn this around, he. He's in a division that he can turn it around in because it's not that deep, the light heavyweight division. He needs a win over a couple guys and he'll be right back in the mix. But if. If he was a lightweight, I'd say it was a rap for him. But the fact that he's in a very weak division, he can turn it around.

[Daniel Cormier]

So when the. When a guy starts to make these types of comments, it's a lot of reflection, right? You start reflecting on the things that you did bad. Now, when I was at 205, towards the end of my career, I started to get heavier because I was comfortable that I could do what I needed to do in Order to make the weight and still fight effectively, especially when Jon Jones wasn't there. When Jon Jones was there, I never got heavy because I had that guy that would truly remind me that if I messed up, he would take advantage. Maybe that's what was hurting Jamal. He needs to have a real direction of what he needs to do in order to change this, or the results will be the same.

[Dean Thomas]

And.

[Daniel Cormier]

And you know what's crazy? Like, he's very competitive. He was competitive against Yuri. He was competitive at times against Pereira early that last fight, man. Khalil Roundtree, it. It wasn't competitive.

[Dean Thomas]

I think the first thing he needs to do, and this might be a problem because of his injuries, the first thing he needs to do is get his feet. His footwork back in. Check his feet. His feet aren't moving good, like.

[Daniel Cormier]

But that's the athleticism, right? He's an athletic guy. He's a basketball player. Why. Why do you think people are so sour on Jamal? It seems like they just turned on him.

[Dean Thomas]

I don't know, man. I. I think there was a point where he just kind of came off as being angry, you know, Angry black man. Nobody likes angry black man. That's why we got a job. We not angry black man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Be smiling all the time, man. Nobody likes angry black men. No. Can Jamal Hill get it back? Going in the right direction? Chat let us know if y' all think that he can go back the way he needs to because Jamal needs to change something. I don't know what it is. You know, it's the summer, and as you know, summer means baseball. So once again, I'm partnering up with our good friends at the draft king sportsbook to bring all new customers a fantastic offer. All you got to do, go to the DraftKings sportsbook. Sign up using my promo code, DCTV. Bet only $5 or more, and we'll give you $150 in bonus bets instantly. You can bet on so many different things when it comes to baseball at the DraftKings board, but I'm talking home runs, strikeouts, and bet your favorite team to win. So, once again, all new customers go to the DraftKings sportsbook. Sign up using my promo code, DCTV. Bet $5 or more. You get $150 in bonus bets instantly when you're dealing with baseball. So, DraftKings sportsbook, the Crown is yours, and so is your favorite team in MLB. Let's go.

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[Daniel Cormier]

Hey, we got a responsibility. We're smiling. We have fun. We have the best job in the world. But there is a responsibility that comes with it. You got to be correct a little bit at times. I can be liable in that. So I heard a story the other day about Ilya Tapori. I heard a story about Ilya Taporia having money as, you know, a family, money. Today I get a thing or I hear Ilya telling Ariel he had four jobs growing up. Dean, I was wrong. How much of a responsibility do we have as the media to tell these people? Even though I'm not traditional media, I'm a fighter that is now on the media side. Hell, Dean, the other day they had an illegal strike on the ground where the guy's laying on his back, he stomps him. We're like, man, I have never seen that before. They ask you, and you, Mr. Smarty Pants, correct us and tell the shit is illegal.

[Dean Thomas]

Well, here's the thing, dc, I've always said this. I'm not a real journalist. I'm just a jackass with a microphone. You, on the other hand, you have a really big platform and you are one of the faces of the ufc. You have a responsibility to tell the truth and to do your homework. You have to do. You have to do that due diligence. Do your homework. You have to.

[Daniel Cormier]

So am I not allowed to hear a story now from a friend that tells me something? Because you don't know if that friend. You don't know if that friend knows. What if he knows?

[Dean Thomas]

No, I know. But you have to always be careful. And you have to always preface everything you say with rumor has it, or allegedly. Yeah. Because you haven't the size of your platform. Everybody listens to you and they take what you say to heart. So if you start telling rumors, it doesn't go over well.

[Daniel Cormier]

So. So, so Iliad Toporia, for the record, had four jobs, is what he said. Now I believe I go to X. I go to Twitter a lot, man. Ben Askren taught me that. Hats off to the boy Ben. He got his lung transplants already, so good for Ben. But I go to X a lot of times. Ben told me it is the greatest news platform in the world. And at times, people lie to me. So even to this day, some people are telling me, Ilya did have money. He didn't. But I will take that back once I hear that man, from his voice saying that he has that. But when it comes to the rules, right, the stump up and down when you haven't seen something, right. I don't think we'd ever seen anything like that. To know, is that on us or is that on the people in the truck to go, hey, no, that's illegal.

[Dean Thomas]

No, I. I think that. I think that is on us. I mean, we have to do a good job of doing it. The only person who's able to get away with me being a little misleading is Chael Sonnen, your partner. This stuff he come up with, he be making stuff up on the spot. I don't know how he come up with the stuff he come up with, but Chael Sonnen will make something up on the spot. He's the only one that is allowed to get away with it because we all kind of know that he's full of shit. But we want to hear it anyway, so we. We just listen anyway.

[Daniel Cormier]

When you sitting with Chill at that desk on those shows, like, man, shell just up here telling Fear about the field.

[Dean Thomas]

I'll be like, yo, what is he? I'm like, he just made that up. He just made that up right now.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes, he's the best, bro. He's so funny. I love, I love, I love Chill. But sometimes I know he's not telling me the truth. But the story's so good. The story's so good that I Want to buy into it? Hey, really fast in round three, talking about responsibility, Jack Hermanson got knocked out bad the other day. Herb was running in to save it, but he was a little slow. Yo, this dude was on his back for, like five minutes. Where's that responsibility lie, Dean? Is. Is the ref supposed to tackle him?

[Dean Thomas]

Yeah, the ref. The ref should have tackled him. Here's what I think happened, because Herb Dean is. Herb Dean is a very good ref. He's always on top of these things. I think what happened was Jack was out so bad that I don't think Herb even considered the possibility of Gregory Rodriguez hitting him with another shot. And I think he just moved a little too slow because he didn't think it was going to happen.

[Daniel Cormier]

So. So here's the problem. You remember what happened with her? Not to Moicano and Jalen Turner. He thought he had the knockout. Walk, walk off, knockout. Dude got up and beat him.

[Dean Thomas]

Right, Exactly. That's another. That's another possibility. No one is really at fault. To me, it was more of a miscommunication on everybody's part.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I think.

[Dean Thomas]

I think Herb just thought he was.

[Daniel Cormier]

Going to stop, especially in the action. Right. But it's Gregory Rodriguez's responsibility to go out there and finish the fight. Speaking the responsibility. But I'll tell you one thing. If Dean gonna be here on three rounds multiple weeks, ain't no way. He up here just corrected me.

[Dean Thomas]

We ain't going to have that.

[Daniel Cormier]

All right, guys, so it's time for my final thought. Ilot Toria is great. I tell you one thing. It don't matter if you love him or you hate him. I don't understand why so many were booing him over the course of last week when in reality, all he has done is the right thing. I get it. There are a lot of comparisons to Conor McGregor, but there's a lot of differences in Ilia Toporia. He has not carried himself in the way that McGregor did. So while there are similarities in the fight career, we have to understand who Ilia Toporia has shown us to be as the man is vastly different. So while the actions are great inside the Octagon, to this point, all he has shown us is great actions outside of the Octagon. Now, I know my great friends out in Dagestan may not have the best relationship with him, but I do know if I know these guys, they respect what he has done inside the Octagon. We'll see what happens in the future, but as of today, just acknowledge that this kid is great and he's different and what he's doing to this point is as good as anything we have seen in a really long time. That confidence, that smile, that walk lets you know that you are watching an individual who believes that only success lies ahead of them every time they step into the octagon. Guys, that was another episode of Three Rounds. Thank you, Dean Thomas, for joining. Thank you for putting up the great fight. I hope to have you back next week. Guys like subscribe, tell your friends to tell their friends that DC's got a YouTube channel and I'm doing things like three rounds every week and I'm going to be joined now by my man Dean Thomas because he did a hell of a job. Until next time for Dean Thomas, I'm Daniel Cormier. Peace this podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. When you're streaming the fight or sharing those takedown highlights, you need a wireless provider that keeps you close to the action. With Total Wireless, you're covered by the Verizon 5G network, so you don't have to worry about your connection being knocked out at the biggest moments. It's not something you can usually say about a wireless provider, but Total Wireless really does have your back. They're in your corner every second of the day, so you never miss a thing. Visit totalwireless.com or visit your local Total Wireless store to learn more about how Total Wireless can be in your corner. 5G access requires a 5G capable device and a 5G service area. Additional terms apply. See website for details.

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[Greg Rosenthal]

Slimrank.com who are the 25 greatest football players to grace the gridiron since the year 2000? Introducing a NFL Daily's top 25 players of the last 25 years Join me, Greg Rosenthal and an all star cast of media personalities including Mina Kimes, Steve Wych, Kevin Harlan and more. For a look at football's best since the turn of the century. Listen to NFL Daily's top 25 players of the last 25 years. Starting on June 30 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Greg Rosenthal]

I get right back there and it's bad.

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Listen to Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Daniel Cormier]

This is an iHeart podcast.