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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human this message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card is a no fee credit card that you can apply for right from the Wallet app on your iPhone, subject to credit approval. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from
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Nick Wright
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Colin Cowherd
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- [01:08]
Colin Cowherd
All right, you know what deserves more attention? The assists. Everybody talks about the goal. A big moment that gets replayed on the highlight reels. But too often we overlook all the contributions and collabs that happen along the way. That's true in soccer and honestly true in life. Halion is shining a light on the assists. As official partner of U.S. soccer, they got a whole lineup of brands ready to deliver for you. So here they are. Sensodyne Dentist Recommended Defense of your sensitive teeth Centrum Fueling your day with science backed nutrients. Advil of course. Powerful Inflammation Fighting Pain relief. Voltaren Arthritis Gel helps penetrate deep, keeps the joints moving and tums ready to counterattack with fast heartburn relief. These are brands that are ready to deliver your essential wellness assists because every goal starts with an assistant. Learn how Halion can assist your game day goals@helionassist.com con make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. From unforgettable tailgate and viewing parties to world class dining, thrilling nightlife and entertainment that keeps energy going long after the final whistle, this is where fans come to celebrate, show off your team spirit, cheer with friends and earn rewards on every experience you love. Because every play is bigger and every moment feels unforgettable in Las Vegas. So what are you waiting for? Make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. Visit mgmrewards.com for details. Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. This is the Best of the Herd
- [02:55]
Brian Scalabrine
with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio.
- [03:03]
Colin Cowherd
Welcome in hour two. World cup week underway NBA season is officially over after the Knicks capture the crown over the weekend. I don't remember another NBA champion being crowned on a Saturday night. I'm probably wrong on that Saturday night feels I always feel like it's weaker Sunday. I don't know. Top of my head maybe I'm we do it every week at this time. We're Collins right, we're Collins wrong every Monday at this time. Here we go where Colin was right. I said the United States men's national team. This group was different. 13 players returning. Like any great championship team, all of our best players are either in their prime or going into their prime. I think Baligan, Pulisic, Weston McKinney Dest are elite players, international players. My takeaway on this? It would look different. We'd fly through the group stage and we have a chance to win two knockout games, which is not something we regularly do. So was I surprised how beautiful it was in the first half? Yes. But I'm not surprised at our ability to play attacking soccer and dominate. I said it against Germany. I'll say it again. I think we can go toe to toe with but about two teams in the World cup where Colin was wrong well a lot with the Knicks. I didn't like the Tibbs firing. I thought he had created a culture and momentum. I I said I thought Jalen Brunson very good player but he's not a star. I'm wrong there. I thought I picked the spurs to win in six. I thought Wemby would be the difference. I didn't listen to myself. Inexperience always matters in these big championship moments. And let's be honest, Wemby got bullied in this series. He was not dependable late. I thought Mike Brown and his staff had a notch above series against Mitch Johnson and his staff. I still don't get the reluctance to play Dylan Harper in crucial minutes. De' Aaron Fox had a bad series and I'm not sure they can move that contract. I was just wrong on the Knicks
- [05:11]
Brian Scalabrine
a lot
- [05:13]
Colin Cowherd
where Collin was right. But I've loved OG on an OBI for a long time. I had said he's the first or the second best. Knick and I said that before the finals, not Cat. I think if you ask 30 GMs in the league privately he's the guy. Now Brunson's the finisher and the closer and OG early in his career had some injury issues but that tip in was the play of the year in the NBA. He's a two way player. The blocks, the three pointers, the toughness, the humility. He averaged 21 a game. I just think he's one of those great athletes. You know it's the linebacker who can cover in space and pass rush. He can do so many things and never wants credit for anything. I was right on OG where Collin was wrong but I was really wrong on Wemby. I just thought he got pushed around, could never get to his spot. He's not a big bodied guy. He was very inefficient in the series, shot 4 42%. Now some of this is on the spurs staff that played him only 28:29 minutes during the regular season and relied on him heavily to play 40 minutes in the postseason. That's on the staff. But too many threes, really bad, late hesitant and some of his post game comments I thought were off the mark. Where Collin was right. Bill Simmons said he would bet his life on the warriors stealing LeBron from the Lakers. Well we don't want him to bet his life if this doesn't happen. That's not what I'm rooting for but it does make two of us listen. The warriors analytically pass more than almost every team in the NBA. The Lakers don't. That's because Luke has got the ball in his hands a lot. The warriors are a natural fit. That offensive ecosystem with Steph and Draymond often being a canalist is built for him. He's got the wisdom and the intelligence to fit fit into an offense that has been touch tough on young guys. Also his ability to facilitate the offense. It's very highly step dependent. They need another scorer, they need another wisdom filled veteran. They need another great distributor LeBron and I agree with Simmons. He's got to listen. This is a perfect fit where Colin was right, Andy Reid and the Chiefs. Brett Veach did it again, restructured Patrick Mahomes deal third time in six years. Kansas City has reset the quarterback market. This isn't hard to figure out. Do exactly the opposite of what the Cowboys did with Dak Prescott reset the market regularly and Mahomes off an injury. You notice that. Why would they do it now because they may get a better deal than if he's an MVP at the end of the season. Constantly ahead of the game on quarterback contracts Brett Veach and the Chiefs always a little early. Don't do what the Cowboys did Where Colin was wrong I really like Jalen Brunson, but I didn't think a ball centric point guard who's smallish could lead you to a title. Becky Hammond didn't think so. I didn't either. Like Steve Nash to me was a better long range shooting Jalen Brunson a little better from three. It always felt like that to me. Similar games the one handed closing very clever, always find their spot but he was by a mile the highest usage rate guy in the finals. Yet he was at his best in the final game of the series which is the opposite of Harden or a Luka where they wear down over a series. So it was pretty damn remarkable. He was better late in the fourth quarter in the final two games I was wrong. Where Colin was right. The Dodgers haven't ruined baseball. The 27th payroll Washington Nationals lead baseball and run score. How about that? The team with no money or at least not spending. Oh, by the way, the Dodgers just lost two of three to the lowly Chicago White Sox. The low payroll Brewers, Guardians and Rays are having great seasons. Take a deep breath. Baseball's got more parody right now than the NBA which does have a salary cap. Where Collin was right, the Big Ten and Ken Paxson, the attorney general of Texas thankfully did the same thing and said guys, stop threatening to not play Texas Tech athletic teams because of Brandon Scoresby. Guys, it's a bad thing. He bet on games when he was at Indiana. It's not good. We all know that. But gambling's legal. It's an NCAA bylaw. Texas Tech is going to defend him. It's ridiculous to think you could cancel games. These teams have contracts with networks. Turbulence happens with young people in college sports all the time. All the time. You should have seen it coming. I have no problem if you suspend them for the year. It's not about that. But weak management by the ncaa, just like weak parenting allows a brush fire to become an inferno. And once again the NCAA really nowhere to be found come punishment time. Colin right. Colin Wrong on a Monday. And with that, Brian Scalabrine. He's been a Celtics TV analyst for a long time. Co hosting the starting lineup with our buddy Frank Isola. All right, let's start with this. Brian. I was wrong on Jalen Brunson. I felt that Ball centric, high usage rate, wears down in a series, Not a great defender. I mean, your takeaway. When Becky Hammond said it, I agreed with her. I'm like, I can like a guy, he can be an all star, he can dominate the East. But the fact that he was a dominant closer and Wemby disappeared, I didn't forecast that. Did you?
- [11:21]
Brian Scalabrine
Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody did. And even though he had success in high school, like, remember I was in Chicago where Rick Brunson was an assistant coach on that staff. Jalen Brunson would come in after practice and he'd work out with us. And he was really good. And he won in high school. He won two national championships in college football, he won at Dallas. And Dallas, you would think that they would know what they're doing. They were always looking for a new star. He got to the Knicks, they got, you know, pretty far. But I think like his mentality is up there with the greats, like the all time greats to Steph Curry's, the Michael Jordans, the Larry Birds, the Magic Johnson's, you know, he just doesn't have the physical tools that those guys have. But, you know, when it comes to like the fourth quarter and delivering, I think your mentality goes a lot further than people realize. Like you can go on the other side of it and look like the Aaron Fox was a little bit shook up by the moment. Other guys, I mean, maybe you could point to Wimby and say he wasn't ready for the moment, but the mentality of Jalen Brunson is what got him through. And I knew the kid, I watched the kid, I followed the kid, I rooted for the kid. And I didn't see, you know, this level of success.
- [12:31]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I mean, you listen, you were in four finals, you played 11 years. You know this league inside and out. Why you and Isola are so good. You know the league. As I was saying this, if you go to the last eight championships, the way the NBA officiates, Brian in the finals, only Jokic is a true center that's won and he's kind of an international center facing the basket, loves to shoot high pick and rolls. My take is watching Wemby, he got bullied. I don't think even. Even Giannis, although he doesn't get bullied, is more of a wing player because he's got the ball so often. Is that the reality is it's hard to. The NBA makes it so difficult for a big to find his spot down low. And is it possible that Wemby will never be like the classic center is. He's going to be more Giannis Moriokic than what we. What we view as a classic center.
- [13:23]
Brian Scalabrine
Sure, sure. I know he's not going to be with, like, he's not going to turn into Kareem Abdul Jabbar. No. But you remember the we believe warriors beat Dirk Nowitzki, who won the MVP that year.
- [13:33]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [13:33]
Brian Scalabrine
Like, Dirk was really good, but he was guardable. And then, you know, I think a couple of playoff blunders, the first round exit, and then he came back and when they beat Miami in the finals, he was unguardable. No one could guard. He just went through the entire roster. So I do think, like, with Wemby and his mindset, and he's only in his third year, he hasn't even made it to the playoffs before this year. He hasn't even finished a complete season. I guess his rookie year he did. So it's like, there's a lot to grow with a guy like Wemby, and I think that team is going to show that. And you know the Knicks, they're the ones that blew game one against Halliburton when the shot went up above the shot clock and drop. So they had their playoff blunders as well.
- [14:16]
Colin Cowherd
Yep.
- [14:16]
Brian Scalabrine
But since it's San Antonio doing it at the highest level, I think it's still a really successful season for them. And I think Wimby can grow from this.
- [14:25]
Colin Cowherd
You know, I said this, and, you know this as a Celtics analyst, I said, I kept thinking of the Celtics watching the Knicks because they're such rivals. I said, I looked at the Knicks bigs and I count OG as a big. I mean, three and D. I look at Robinson's physicality, cat skill, and I'm like, man, the Celtics front line is unathletic compared to that. They need to take a swing. And then I look at and I look at the collective humility and how well the Knicks play together, and I'm like, I'm not sure Tatum and Brown like each other. I like both of them, but Tatum strangely passive. And Brown said, it's my favorite season ever, and it was one without Tatum. And I kind of look at the Knicks and I want your perspective on this because there's a Giannis rumor to the Celtics and I'm like, well, that would close the gap, but the Knicks bring virtually everybody back. I think Robinson's contract may. They may move that. But I mean, should we look at the Knicks as a one off or It's a pretty darn good roster. Brian.
- [15:29]
Brian Scalabrine
Yeah, I think the Knicks are better in the playoffs than we can previously give him credit for. Like, if you think about what Bridges does, you know, he plays his 82 games, but in the playoffs, he goes up. I heard you talking about OG Anunoby. It's amazing. The Knicks got him for RJ Barrett, Emmanuel Quickley. Like, he is a gamer. He defends at a high level, he knocks down shots, he makes big plays. Carlton Towns is a matchup nightmare. So, yeah, I do look at the Knicks as the favorite next year. I know the odds came out and the odds came out to win the championship. Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Celtics, and then it came in Knicks. But I think the Knicks do have the best roster because in a playoff game, like, where are you going to lean your defense? And you still have to deal with Jalen Brunson, who is an absolute terror when it comes to that fourth quarter. He might not play well. He didn't actually have a great series, but in the fourth quarter of every game, when he needed to make a play, he made the play. So you asked this question about the Giannis rumors. I hear the same things. I'm not sure the Celtics are going to go down that road. I don't know for a fact that they wouldn't go down that road, but it doesn't seem like to be their MO But I do think the Celtics are trying to gear up with a healthy Tatum and trying to look at the Knicks, look at Oklahoma City, look at San Antonio and see can we put a team together that could challenge, you know, those four teams.
- [16:50]
Colin Cowherd
So, you know, it's interesting. One of the things I said that I found really likable about the Knicks and I've said this about the Celtics, is I always say I like manalytics over analytics. I will look at the numbers and the analytics, but in football, it is blocking and tackling. I don't care what the numbers say. And in basketball, it's situational. I need a basket. I need to stop. I don't care what I mean when Brunson scoring. I don't need a three, I need a basket. That's what the spurs needed this entire series with four minutes left. Stop the momentum. And I look at Boston and I think, God, they're so formulaic in regards to threes. Do you think like this Celtics team? You know how this is a copycat league? For years it was small ball. That was just the Warriors. Not everybody else could do that because Draymond plays So big for his size. Do you think the Celtics tweaked their formula? If they got a Giannis who does not shoot a three and be like, okay, guys, we are a little burdened by the incessant three point formula.
- [17:55]
Brian Scalabrine
Actually, that's a really good point. You know, it doesn't seem like they're MO to take a guy at 31 and, you know, you'd have to give up Jaylen Brown. I don't know if there's a way to do it without giving up Jalen Brown and to say, like, hey, we rely too many on too many three. So if we go out and get personnel that can change that, then maybe we can, you know, attack. You know, in the Oklahoma City Indiana series, that series also didn't produce a lot of threes. It was a lot more pace, a lot more mid range, a lot more going to the basketball. And now this year it's the same kind of thing. I think the San Antonio spurs relied a lot on the three. But, you know, when you play a certain style and the coach coaches a certain way, you know, I would just like to see, like with the Knicks, things weren't going well one way, they just adapted to a different way. And I, I think all teams need to do that. And maybe that's what you're talking about when you talk about analytics. It's just like finding a guy that's going to make a play. And that play doesn't have to be a three, it doesn't have to be a layup. It could be a driving kick, you know, two or three times or coming up with a big defensive stop or taking a charge. Those are in the, in the finals where the margins are tight, or even in the Eastern Conference finals where the margins are tight. You know, those little plays make a big difference. And you know, maybe, maybe the Celtics look at it and say like, well, Giannis can make plays that our guys can't make, so maybe we go down that road. But it just doesn't feel right to me and, you know, like, it wasn't. It's not like I have conversations with anybody. It doesn't feel like the Celtics would go down that road. But you bring up a good point. If they want to go away from being three happy, I guess that would be an interesting deal.
- [19:26]
Colin Cowherd
Finally, I found the Knicks incredibly likable. I know they're a rival of the Celtics, but there was something, you know, Mike Brown success looks like a lot of different things to other people. And he's coached with Carlisle, good coach And. And Popovich and. And Kerr. What was Mike Brown when they made the move for Tibbs, I was like, man, Tibbs has a formula. They have a culture. They're. They like each other. They're physical. Like, I didn't like it. I'm like, man, James Dolan needs to go another sphere and leave the basketball guys to the basketball. But James Dolan was right. Are you surprised the success Mike Brown had? Because, you know, unlike football, you can be fired multiple times in the NBA. It doesn't hurt. It doesn't ding your credibility, apparently. What did you make of it?
- [20:11]
Brian Scalabrine
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I think with Mike Brown, there were times where they were talking about minutes. You know, the minutes are actually the same as it was with Thibodeau. And then they talk about ball movement, and the ball movement is the same as it was with Thibodeau. So then they talk about defense, which also was the same, you know, So I think, like, sometimes there's a narrative that people go with and people write and they wrote that narrative, and maybe they just wanted Thibodeau gone. I have no idea why, but you can't argue with the end results. And I will say, like, Mike Brown made a few decisions and he didn't stick with it, which was really nice. There was a time when they were playing through Karl Anthony Townes, and then Carlton Towns was a no show, so they just went a different route.
- [20:53]
Colin Cowherd
Right.
- [20:54]
Brian Scalabrine
And then I think Jalen Brunson did a good job of trying to get everyone involved, but at times when they're down 22 to the Cleveland Cavaliers, Jalen Brunson is what brought him back. So, like, even though the narrative was too much of this and too much of that, I think Mike Brown is probably a little bit more adaptable, and maybe that's what the Knicks needed. I think their defense this year was average at best. And something happened. I don't know what happened. It was game three against Atlanta. From game four on, their defense was completely different. They started flying around more. They started trapping the ball. They were way more impactful, way more physical. Is that Mike Brown saying, hey, this didn't work the first three games when we're down 2:1 to Atlanta? I don't know, but he pushed the right buttons, and that's all that really matters. And I think nowadays, maybe like an NFL head coach, it's about relying on your offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, having more of a collaborative effort. And it seemed like Mike Brown throughout, he did a really good job of making it a collaborative effort. And I think I can give him a ton of credit for that.
- [21:51]
Colin Cowherd
Eleven years in the league, got to the finals four times. One of the smarter guys. He and Frank Isola are great. We put him on regularly on this show as well. Brian, great seeing you, man. I always appreciate your insight. You got a Collins here, former UFC Trojan, and I always tell you, Jason, that's where the great ones come from. That's fired up Alexi Lawless next hour. It's a great time of the year. One more herd.
- [22:18]
Commercial/Announcer
The herd streams 24 hours a day,
- [22:20]
Colin Cowherd
seven days a week within the iHeartRadio
- [22:22]
Commercial/Announcer
app search herd to listen live or on demand, whenever you'd like.
- [22:28]
Brian Scalabrine
Stugats here.
- [22:29]
Colin Cowherd
I have a podcast empire. It continues to grow and I have
- [22:34]
Brian Scalabrine
brought it here to Ivar.
- [22:35]
Colin Cowherd
I'm also doing a live radio show from 3 to 5pm Eastern because my wife wanted to to kick me out of the house. It's called Stegotson company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes every single day. Some of the biggest names in sports, a lot of phone calls. I love you guys show.
- [22:54]
Brian Scalabrine
It's one of my favorites.
- [22:55]
Colin Cowherd
A lot of interaction. Guys not taking themselves too seriously. Those are just some of the things that you could expect from Stugots Co. And Stu got some company live. So listen to Stugots Co. Live and our original podcast. Please subscribe, rate and review Stugats Co. And God bless football. Taylor's livelihood depends on it. Do it today and you can check all of those out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Introducing B of a Rewards. A new loyalty program with rewards for every ambition.
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Colin Cowherd
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- [23:57]
Nick Wright
All Rights Reserve.
- [23:59]
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- [24:57]
Colin Cowherd
All right, you know what deserves more attention? The assists. Everybody talks about the goal. A big moment that gets replayed on the highlight reels. But too often we overlook all the contributions and collabs that happen along the way. That's true in soccer and honestly true in life. Halion is shining a light on the assists. As official partner of U.S. soccer, they got a whole lineup of brands ready to deliver for you. So here they are. Sensodyne Dentist Recommended Defense of your sensitive teeth Centrum Fueling your day with science backed nutrients. Advil, of course. Powerful inflammation Fighting pain relief Voltaren Arthritis Gel helps penetrate deep, keeps the joints moving and Tums ready to counterattack with fast heartburn relief. These are brands that are ready to deliver your essential wellness. Assists because every goal starts with an assist, Learn how Halion can assist your game day goals at
- [25:50]
Nick Wright
make your game
- [25:50]
Colin Cowherd
day legendary with MGM Rewards. From unforgettable tailgate and viewing parties to world class dining, thrilling nightlife and entertainment that keeps energy going long after the final whistle, this is where fans come to celebrate. Show off your team spirit, cheer with friends and earn rewards on every experience you love. Because every play is bigger and every moment feels unforgettable in Las Vegas. So what are you waiting for? Make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. Visit mgmrewards.com for details. Here we go. Hour 2 How much fun is the World Cup? The game scheduled for today, tomorrow and Friday? Outstanding. Nick Wright in five minutes. So we talked about this. What to do with Jalen Brunson. Obviously relatable. A great fourth quarter score. I've compared him to Russell Wilson. Where is his size? His durability? His game is unique. Was Russell Wilson. Is he a Hall of famer? For 10 years all he did was win games and get to Super Bowls. Jalen Brunson. What do I He's got a little Steve Nash. Is he as good as Steve Nash, the multiple mvp? So I Thought to myself, three years, because I don't want to eliminate old players. If you told me for the next three years who I could build around in the NBA, this is the order I would put them in. So let's start with number one. I don't think it's a, it's a big argument here. I would go with Wemby. Despite the finals. Listen, he played 29 minutes regular season. He played 40 in the finals. He got worn down by OG and Robinson and Cat and Josh Hart leaning on him. Go back to Michael Jordan's first finals, first three playoff series. He got bounced. The kid's going to be fine. He's who I would build around. Number two would be Jokic. His skill set is perfect. He's one of the smartest players I've ever seen. Point, center, distribution, distribution, scoring. He's got incredible nuance and touch around the basket. Again, I don't think Denver's done the greatest job since the title of kind of maintaining a roster that works in his favor. He's not a great defender, but he's not as awful as people claim. Jokic would be my two, number three is the most talented 19 year old I've ever seen. Offensively, Cooper Flag, he's not, you know, he's not Lebron in terms of size and strength. His left hand floaters, right hand transition. It is remarkable how offensively gifted he is. I said this coming out of college. People said, well, he's Jayson Tatum, but more aggressive. And people, whoa, be careful. I, I think by this year he will be better than Jayson Tatum, who is a really high end NBA player. Cooper Flagg would be number three. I would do Ant 4 now. Ant's gonna get expensive. He is highly efficient. His average continues to go up. He shot 40% from three. So ant a terrific player. I wish that's a maturity issue sometimes. Is he a great leader? I don't know, but he's clutch. He's obviously a hard worker because his game keeps getting better. Ant is my number four, Number five Now, this is when it gets tougher. I would go sga. He's the most criticized guy in the league. I get 30 points a game. Humility, great teammate. There's no resentment in the building, despite the fact that he takes a majority of the late game shots. He and Brunson have that in common. There's no resentment at all in the building. He's loved by everybody. And I'm sorry, I mean, he led him to the number one seed. There's not A lot not to like. Aesthetically, it's not a beautiful game, but I get numbers in production and durability that's redeemable. Number six, Luka. Durability is a problem now. Well, no, no, no. It's a real problem now. Also. You have to build a certain team around Luka. You don't have to do that with Anthony Edwards or Cooper Flag. Just go build a team and get good players. Luca's durability and conditioning is a problem. You know, he's. I'm. I'm getting to the point now with this durability stuff with Luca, I wonder if he's already reached his peak, and I think that's a legitimate question. Number seven. I would do Giannis again. He's older. Age concerns. 32 next year. And he's not a perimeter player. He is a remarkable athlete. I think more than a few people in the NBA think he is the most legitimate Wemby stopper, if there is such a thing by an individual. He's never really developed an outside shot. He's got the ball in his hands a lot, so he's not like a classic big, but I think he turns any franchise takes him to another level. If he signed number eight. And this is a guy I like more than I think the rest of you. Kate Cunningham. Big, strong. He's only 24 years old. He's not a plus defender, but the Pistons had the number one defense or number two defense, and he was part of that collective. He's also developed into a very good elevator of others. He can score now. He's not super creative as a shot creator, but he's good enough. The fact that Detroit was a number one seed without a second dependable score tells you how good this kid is. Great facilitator, good kid. Can play defense, tremendous body. Number nine, Jalen Brunson. I know you think it's too low, but I do think he is a 62 player who's got kind of a different game. He succeeds despite size and defensive limitations. He's got an incredibly high usage rate, and I do believe this roster was built perfectly around him. I love him. I'm putting him at 9. Molten of you won't like it, but I. I think that's fitting. And number 10 to me is the surprise. It's Jason Tatum. I think one of the reasons you're getting Gianna's rumors is he's strangely passive in big spots. They move Marcus smart because he was taking shots away from him. They're. They're talking about moving Jaylen Brown because he takes shots away from him. I don't worry too much about durability. I've said before, I, I can like you a lot as a player, but there are times in big games late, he kind of I'm. Is he on the floor? I never ever say that with Cade Cunningham or Jalen Brunson. They may be. They may miss a shot, but I never ask, are they on the floor? Tatum's just too passive too often to put him above those guys. Now, Nick Wright has never agreed with me wholeheartedly, holistically on any NBA list. So let's bring in my friend Nick, who has been just spectacular as the World cup has started, as always. I mean, so let's just throw this out. Which one? Now you're already rolling your eyes. You're not even.
- [32:59]
Nick Wright
This is one of your. This is. This is this. I don't even. I can't mince words. This is really bad. It's really bad. I the what is? You keep talking about Jalen Brunson as if you have a question. Can you win big with him when he just scored 45 on the greatest offensive player you've ever seen to win the finals in five games? Who cares that he's short? Messi's pretty short too. I wonder if Argentina could ever win a World cup with him. We saw it happen. There is no chance, none. That Cooper flag next year is better than Jalen Brunson right now. This moment Victor win Benyama is not better than Jalen Brunson. The wearing down thing with Victor is a huge concern. You don't have to worry about that with Brunson. Cade Cunningham ahead of Jalen Brunson is like an extra slap in the face. Why? In what context?
- [34:08]
Colin Cowherd
Well, because soccer isn't a big man sport. Basketball is overwhelmingly even now. It's not a center league, but it's a three and D league. It is a length sport. It is a wing league. He is a remarkable player. But it's just like the last eight champions. There are no great teams. There are spectacular in the moment lightning in a bottle teams, which the Knicks were. But we were asking questions last year about Brunson and Indiana being like, ugh, Kat and Brunson can't play together.
- [34:42]
Nick Wright
And then they just went 15:1 and shattered the point differential for the playoffs. And you're saying last year we were asking questions about Jalen Brunson. Right now I'm asking questions about Cade Cunningham right today.
- [34:56]
Colin Cowherd
Well, he doesn't have a second Scorer. Whereas Cat can score and OG can score and Bridges can score and I mean the Knicks are all of a
- [35:04]
Nick Wright
sudden now the Knicks are some great team. This guy averaged 32 and a half for the finals. He had 36, 7 to quarterback a 29 point second half comeback. He then had 40. The list of guys with 45 plus in a closeout game. Yacht, the best game of his career. Bullet Bob Pettit, who's too old even for you to have watched. And Michael Jordan's absolute greatest performance of his career. His final game in Chicago. And Brunson on Saturday night. I just, it's. We don't need the hypotheticals anymore. It doesn't have to fit. This is. It's in a similar way, different draft profile, but they both won in college. It's Isaiah Thomas. It's like, well, was Isaiah Thomas ever better than Larry Bird or better than Magic Johnson or better than Michael Jordan? I don't know. But I do know en route to a championship, he beat them all. And I do know that he outplayed them in playoff series.
- [36:10]
Colin Cowherd
How about this? We thought Jalen hurts was good. And then for about a year and a half he's great. And now we're back to. He's kind of dependent on his coordinator. Jalen Brunson, we always thought was good. His dad acknowledges. I didn't think he'd be that good. Then he's great in a playoff run. If I told you he ended up being very good for the rest of his career. There are these magical moments with players.
- [36:36]
Nick Wright
Jalen, this will probably be the peak. I agree with that. But since, since he's been with the Knicks, he. Jalen Brunson in the last four years, who leads the entire NBA in playoff wins. Jalen Brunson second in the entire NBA in playoff points per game. Jalen Brunson first in 30 and 40 point playoff games. Jalen Brunson, this is a team that before he got there, had won one playoff series in 15 years. They immediately won a playoff series in each of his first two years before he got there, hadn't made a conference finals in 25 years. They made it in year three, hadn't been to an NBA finals in 27 years. They made it in year four, hadn't won a championship in 53 years. They just did it against. And nobody believed in it. Shouldn't say nobody. Very few people during the playoffs thought that the winner of the east would have any shot against whoever came out of the West. And it's not only that they won. Other than og, none of his teammates played great. They won because he walked the spurs down every time. Like at some point, body type and draft profile have to matter less than what the guy actually just did. And I just. The. I just vehemently disagree with you. That's the short version. I vehemently disagree.
- [38:05]
Colin Cowherd
Okay. I think we've seen the apex. We've seen the top. And I think all of us tend to see.
- [38:13]
Nick Wright
We've seen the top. You haven't think we've seen the top of Giannis. Giannis Top was five years ago, scored 50 in the finals. You've got him ahead of Brunson. Cooper Flagg is an idea. You've got Anthony Edwards, who I love. Why is Anthony Edwards better than Jalen Brunton right now? Why like and why tell me?
- [38:33]
Colin Cowherd
You can put him on anybody, two way player. He's still ascending. He's a much better athlete. He's a stronger player. Yeah, I like. I think ant. I would. I think if you ask GMs, they would take Andover, Brunson. I would. I would take him over.
- [38:46]
Nick Wright
I think. I think if you ask GMs, I. I think that is correct. What. And I. And listen, I. I think that there's. And probably the person on your list I have the least issue with, but I just don't. There is to me. And you said it off the top. You were like, for, you know, I've called Jalen Brunson, Russell Wilson, Colin. Go back and watch Colin. How Colin Coward talked about Russell Wilson. You loved the guy. You didn't care about draft position or size or anything. You're like, the guy wins, the guy performs. You adored Russell Wilson. I just. I don't know. But. Sorry, go ahead.
- [39:24]
Colin Cowherd
That's okay. The. I always said this about Michael Jordan. You'd swear if you're like 28 years old, you've never seen him miss a shot. Like, literally. We only show every shot was dramatic. And I said, oh, yeah, I remember the first three series pre Pippin. They got whacked. They couldn't win a series. He was not a good teammate. He was running through coaches. Take a deep breath on Wemby. Also, it's not his primary language. So a couple of times he was a little choppy at the podium. He may have offended people. I'm not quite sure. I read a couple of the lines
- [39:58]
Nick Wright
and I'm like, it's not his primary language.
- [40:00]
Colin Cowherd
Well, I mean, he said something like, see and never. And I'm like, I don't know. If he.
- [40:05]
Nick Wright
I don't care about that, but okay.
- [40:08]
Colin Cowherd
I mean, he said, see and never. And everybody overreacted. And my take is I think he misspoke. I don't think he was trying to be Kurt and a smart aleck and snarky. I just think we're over. We're over. We're dumping too much on him. The NBA. Antonio Daniels just said this. The NBA is the only sport that does this. Hey, we're going to get to the finals. We're going to officiate totally differently. And he got bullied. Last eight champs. Only one team's led by a center. A true center is Jokic, who's kind of a non traditional center. It is hard to dominate in the paint in the NBA Finals because the, the officials sort of. Tim Legler once said it, guys, you have to at least do your job. You have to call some fouls. And I think he got bullied expectedly by a bunch of veterans.
- [40:55]
Nick Wright
I agree. I think the referee should have called more fouls. Like maybe four of the uncalled flagrants that Wimy got away with. Maybe that I hear right. You know what? Call a few more clutches and grabs and then maybe also the palming the back of Brunson's head or the multiple landing zone penalties that he got away with. I am, I am. So here is that you are correct on the front end. Braun was bad in the finals at age 22. Jordan didn't make them till year seven. Like there is there. Kareem made them immediately, but then went, you know, nearly a decade in his career without winning again. So it is a long journey for these guys. There is no question about that. But as far as the media's coddling of Victor Wembanyama, I've quite frankly never seen anything like it. He this season did the following things before the playoffs. All met with applause. And I talked about it at the time. I never seen anything like it. Back in December, when asked about the NBA cup, he's like, well, the Knicks, they don't play a sophisticated brand of basketball. The hell you tell it like. Maybe that's the language barrier again. Why are you lecturing me about sophisticated brand of basketball? He explained to us about how the spurs play ethical basketball and how they own the Thunder. He then did something that's never been applauded by any media pundit in sports history. Until he did it, which is in the midst of his team making a playoff run. He was like, hey, if I could have hold court for a moment here's my three pronged plan as to why I am the league's mvp. And he went after Shai for not being as good defensively. Said they dominated the Thunder, all of that. So that was in the lead up to the playoffs. Then in the playoffs it's like, oh, little bit of a mean streak. That's a hell of an elbow to Nas Reed. Fine, so be it. We can deal with all that. Then in the finals we had the following things happen. He throws away game two, throws it away. And this is on the heels of after losing game one, saying, oh, we don't have to play good, we just have to play normal to win this series. Celebrated after the conference finals like he had won a championship because he thought he had. After game three, said it was talked about them dominating the series. After game four, talked about them dominating the series. And then in game in, despite the fact that in game four he said to Mitchell Robinson, I'm in your head. And then proceeded to be the face of the biggest collapse in the history of the finals. And then in game five, he gave you a nice strong 15 minutes. And then a 22 year old ran out of gas and needed a breather. A water break during. With five minutes left in the finals. And then after all of that gave the Knicks no credit and wouldn't shake their hands. All of that put together changes how you view a guy that's fair. Now as a player. Is he a brilliant player? Yes. Did this finals also shine a spotlight a bit on some of the flaws? Doesn't have a go to offensive move, does get very winded very easily and needs to get stronger. Yeah, but I just, I. All year long I. He was talking as if winning was a foregone conclusion and he had this wisdom to share with us. And then in the finals when his team is a huge favorite, came up short, there wasn't a lot of reflection of man, the Knicks are better. It was. It's our mistakes. We controlled the series. And I just don't believe that to be accurate.
- [44:46]
Colin Cowherd
That's very good today. Let me ask you one question.
- [44:52]
Nick Wright
You know, you, I soccer, I'm nervous about this.
- [44:58]
Colin Cowherd
Well, soccer is. You would acknowledge that you are. You and I would both be casuals. Although I think we both love it.
- [45:05]
Nick Wright
Sure.
- [45:05]
Colin Cowherd
And there is, I don't know. Little birdie said the Spain draw yesterday was not great for you.
- [45:15]
Nick Wright
Financially ruinous is the way to put it. I, I mean, listen, full disclosure, I'm an open book here. I won a lot of money on the Knicks winning The championship because I had the very deep analysis of, hey, this team hasn't lost in a month and they win every game by 20. I think they can beat a young spurs team. And I could have, you know, just hit the old, you know, withdraw button. But en route to the withdrawal button, I saw another button that said, what is this? Is this a free $1500 I can pick up off the ground? Just scoop it up. Spain's gonna beat Cape Verde. I don't care that they're minus 1,400. They could be minus 14,000. And so I clicked that button instead. And then I watched the game in horror. And then again, full disclosure, and this is, listen, gamble responsibly, America. I then proceeded to be like, well, certainly the next favorite will win. And we might have pressed a little. And then all of a sudden I'm sweating out. I don't remember the last game. Uruguay. No way to tell. I know this, Colin. Yesterday I bet three favorites at huge minus money. And it was a day of draws. There was no winners. Just no winners, no upsets, but no winners.
- [46:49]
Commercial/Announcer
Right?
- [46:50]
Nick Wright
And so this is why, for the first time I've been doing this, these hits with you since the beginning of First Things first, so nearly nine years. Today will be the first day that I fill out an overtime sheet that I'm going to try to get time and a half, see how it works. Because this was a, this was a bankruptcy level event and, you know, we rebuilt.
- [47:15]
Colin Cowherd
That's all it is good to see no winners. There was one loser yesterday and it's our friend Nick Wright.
- [47:21]
Nick Wright
That is correct. That is correct. I hope you like this fancy watch I wear every time I'm on the show because this is the last time you're seeing it. Walking over to 47th street, seeing what cash it's worth. I'll see you later, buddy.
- [47:35]
Colin Cowherd
Nick Wright on the World cup on Jalen Brunson and, and Victor. Wim Benyama. Yeah, I mean, he, Victor. It took Giannis a while to be westernized, where he started having a little attitude and pushing back. And Victor came over and he was us. And we talked about that a lot this year. He's us. He wants to win everything. He wants to dominate the All Star Game. He's a little cocky. He'll complain about, you know, officiating. He's us. So I did appreciate that. Be sure to catch live editions of
- [48:09]
Commercial/Announcer
the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. You ever notice how everything keeps going up. Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks soft should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this go up soon? Game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement, some things just never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile after 30gb, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.
- [49:15]
Colin Cowherd
Alright, you know what deserves more attention? The assists. Everybody talks about the goal. A big moment that gets replayed on the highlight reels. But too often we overlook all the contributions and collabs that happen along the way. That's true in soccer and honestly true in life. Halion is shining a light on the assists. As official partner of U.S. soccer, they got a whole lineup of brands ready to deliver for you. So here they are. Sensodyne Dentist Recommended Defense of your sensitive teeth Centrum Fueling your day with science backed nutrients. Advil of course. Powerful Inflammation Fighting pain relief Voltaren Arthritis Gel helps penetrate deep, keeps the joints moving and tums ready to counterattack with fast heartburn relief. These are brands that are ready to deliver your essential wellness. Assists because every goal starts with an assist, learn how Halion can assist your game day goals@helionassist.com con make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. From unforgettable tailgate and viewing parties to world class dining, thrilling nightlife and entertainment that keeps energy going long after the final whistle, this is where fans come to celebrate, show off your team spirit, cheer with friends and earn rewards on every experience you love. Because every play is bigger and every moment feels unforgettable in Las Vegas. So what are you waiting for? Make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. Visit mgmrewards.com for details. Innovation is what gets your business to the big leagues, and Wasabi is designed to give every business a shot at competition break free from skyrocketing storage costs, unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company and the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. Innovation From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware, Wasabi has taken the lead in big league data storage. Remember, Wasabi is up to 80% less than the other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi is another championship story. Check them out free@wasabi.com, wasabi Hot Cloud Storage Proud partner of the Voluum Podcast Network oh today's a day England. You'll get your first look at England, Portugal and Renault Waldo today. Could it top yesterday World cup the network that actually discusses it. Welcome back. It is great to be here. And I've said this before, I would be viewed as a casual although some of the guys on my staff are all in all the time. But American soccer fans, you know they little bit of a chip on their shoulder. They feel ignored. There's no reason to mock them. You know what, this is a great time and they're going to make sure you understand how much they know. But yesterday's a prime example. Stars carry teams. It is beyond schemes. Let's talk Messi like a Jalen Brunson in the fourth quarter. He is the system. He took over yesterday. We saw three superstars shining three different ways at three different moments in their career. Let's start with Messi, 38 years old, three goals. Argentina debuts group stage he's only 5 7, 150 but he is probably technically the greatest player arguably ever. Beautiful iq. There's a smoothness to his flow. These are not schemes play design, they are talent. He is so good on the ball. The ability to manipulate space, timing, angles, passing, dribbling. There's a little Steph Curry resemblance. He looks different. Then there's Mbappe. He, unlike Messi, is now in his athletic prime. 27, little like an NFL wide receiver in terms of speed and agility. Strong, athletic, can just outrace people. 14 World cup goals in 15 World cup matches doesn't even make sense. That's why France are favorites now. American fans can kind of relate to him. He is just a world class athlete in his prime, consistently making dynamic plays when the ball comes off his foot. It looks different. And then there's Norway's Erling Holland. Oh, Erling, where have you been? He's our Gronk, right? In the World cup, he's six, five. It's an incredibly difficult matchup. He overpowers people. He's a classic target striker. It is a lot of brute force. He is big and strong, a little bit like Zlatan Ibrahimovic in the air. Nobody can really defend him. He just looks different. His misses, his makes. It is all brute force. And you watched these three yesterday, all time greats. Three different styles, three different sizes, all on display. None of them are part of a system. They are the system. Later today, it's England and then Ronaldo. And here was Stu Holden after the Stars took over yesterday on Fox. Just imagine these Stars, though, sitting at
- [55:02]
Nick Wright
home watching each other.
- [55:03]
Colin Cowherd
Where first Mbappe goes, it's your turn.
- [55:06]
Nick Wright
Two goals.
- [55:07]
Colin Cowherd
And Holland goals. Two goals. Messi's like, hey, Brad, hold my beer. That's cute, guys. How about a hat trick? So what is Ronaldo going to do tomorrow? Yeah, it. It is. Now we're starting to see the first week. The Americans, the Germans dominate. And now you're getting Messi. Now you're going to get Ronaldo. It's England today. It felt like yesterday kind of the sea opened for the World Cup. It was fantastic. All right, maybe the sea is opening at the World cup on Fox. But the door may be closing on what the Lakers can do in free agency. Because the story this morning is LeBron and the Lakers. They're talking and we've got new owners for the Lakers and they have a lot of lettuce, the Dodgers owners. But they're also discovering that the NBA, of all of our pro leagues is the hardest. It's an incremental league. It is the hardest league to make trades and the hardest leagues to make big improvements year to year. In fact, if you look at the top five free agents this year, these are the cream of the crop. It's Jalen Duran from the Pistons who can't really create his own shot and had an awful playoff. James Harden of the Cavs. You really want to get into that business. Austin Reaves, good player, but a ceiling athletically. Isaiah Hartenstein, center for okc, who I like a lot, but he's really expensive. And LeBron James at 42 years old, that's the cream of the crop. Some would put Trae Young in there, but he seems to drive coaches crazy. So there's just not that many avenues to quickly improve in the NBA, and they make trades very difficult. You've got to match salaries. So, like what the New England Patriots did awful to the Super Bowl. You can't really duplicate it. Now you could say, oh, what about San Antonio? Okay, there is a guy named Wemby. There's nobody on the planet like him. And by the way, they got dominated when they got there by the Knicks. So my take is the new Laker owners. These are people that have moved off stars Cody Bellinger and Manny Machado. They've moved off stars Trey Turner. But football's different and baseball's different. You can defer payments in Major League Baseball. In the NFL, you got a college draft where you can find Brock Purdy in the seventh round, you can find Puka Nakua in the fifth round, you can find Tom Brady in the sixth round. That doesn't exist in the NBA. Two rounds, you're kind of out of players, usually by about pick 14. Jokic and Draymond Green, Tony Parker, they're outliers. So I think they look at LeBron and they're saying to themselves, we got to get the number right. But last year he gave you 21 points, seven assists and six and a half rebounds. There's like four guys in the NBA that did that. I wish he was 32. It would be much easier. And then his defense could basically shield Luka and Austin Reeves inability to lock down guys. But there's a difference between good and great. There are no great options for the Lakers. All this stuff about Giannis, I mean, go look at what a team like Portland could offer Giannis. I was looking at something last night on the Interweb about teams interested in Giannis, and I'm like, oh, the Portland offer blows everybody away. He just doesn't want to go to Portland. Right. He wants to be closer to Greece, perhaps. Miami doesn't have much, but that's where he wants to play. So there's just. There's limitations on what you can do. And Frank Isola and I talked about this last week. There was a lot of buzz around the team that the idea of perhaps LeBron joining the warriors after the season, and a lot of that has to do especially with his relationship with Steph Curry. It does make a lot of sense. I think if you were to leave the Lakers, and I don't know why, if I'm the Lakers, I'd want to have him. I think he played really well this season for what you should expect from a guy who's 41 years old. He's not going to play 82 games. And they needed Luka Doncic. All right, so that's where we stand. I want to give you a heads up today. Yesterday, J. Mac and I got into an argument about the Cleveland Browns. I tend to think they're undervalued. And I think it's so easy to beat up on the Browns that everybody's, they're like to. They stink. So today I'm going to do it, and I usually do it later in the summer, but the summer's just, just sort of starting. Although it's stormy here in Chicago, occasionally, we get clouds here once a summer. So I'm going to give you my four favorite overs. Oh, and my four favorite unders. They're called future bets over unders. I'm going to do that in 30 minutes from now at the end of our number one. Now, you know this, J. Mac, you got to give me. You got to give me a little bit of credit. This is where I've been pretty good.
- [59:57]
Nick Wright
Yes.
- [59:57]
Colin Cowherd
I've been pretty good at my over under. So this will be an early summer present before the storms hit in Chicago, and you guys can all have your fun. I can't believe you're going to be actually advocating people to put after tax dollars. Yes. On the Cleveland Browns over.
- [60:14]
Nick Wright
Is that what you're doing?
- [60:15]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [60:16]
Commercial/Announcer
Oh, my gosh.
- [60:17]
Colin Cowherd
That's one of the teams I feel very. So today. Today, if you, if you are a casual with soccer, England, this is their best team. Remember, England's only won it one time. So whenever we get these kind of precious. Soccer fans are, well, I want to see us win. England's won at one time. They're a soccer country, but this is their best team in a while. Also, Ronaldo, like Messi, probably not in his prime, a little out of it, certainly in his financial prime if you look at his contract. But he, he will. I mean, he wouldn't be shocking. You know, Portugal is one of those five or six teams we look at with a chance to be really, really special. So today is a great day on Fox and FS1. Keep it right here. Make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. From unforgettable tailgate and viewing parties to world class dining, thrilling nightlife and entertainment that keeps energy going long after the final whistle. This is where fans come to celebrate. Show off your team spirit, cheer with friends and earn rewards on every experience you love. Because every play is bigger and every moment feels unforgettable in Las Vegas. So what are you waiting for make your game day legendary with MGM Rewards. Visit mgmrewards.com for details. All right, you know what deserves more attention? The assists. Everybody talks about the goal, a big moment that gets replayed on the highlight reels. But too often we overlook all the contributions and collabs that happen along the way. That's true in soccer and honestly, true in life. Helion is shining a light on the assists. As official partner of U.S. soccer, they got a whole lineup of brands ready to deliver for you. So here they are. Sensodyne Dentist Recommended Defense of your sensitive teeth Centrum Fueling your day with science backed nutrients Advil of course Powerful inflammation fighting pain relief Voltaren Arthritis Gel helps penetrate deep, keeps the joints moving and Tums ready to counterattack with fast heartburn relief. These are brands that are ready to deliver your essential wellness assists because every goal starts with an assist. Learn how Halion can assist your game day goals@halionassist.com Con OnPlus nicotine pouches present comfort chronicles at 10 o' clock tee time how comfortable you show up in stretchy shorts, a breathable tee and maybe no socks. Let the dogs breathe while other sweat and pleated khakis you're in your comfort zone. Bombing drive and in your pocket. On nicotine pouches the softest pouch on the planet. Buy a can@onnicotine.com Products for tobacco consumers 21 years of age or older Warning this product contains nicotine.
- [62:55]
Brian Scalabrine
Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
- [62:57]
Colin Cowherd
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