THE HERD - Hour 1 - Spurs take game 6 over the OKC, Lamar Jackson comments

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Date: May 29, 2026
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guests/Analysts: Jason Whitlock, Rachel Nichols, Ryan Hollins

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers on breaking down key storylines from the NBA Playoffs—specifically the dramatic Spurs vs. Thunder series and the narratives surrounding stars like Victor Wembanyama and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA). It mixes basketball analysis with NBA legacy debates and then pivots to NFL drama, focusing on Lamar Jackson's comments regarding the departure of coach John Harbaugh, the Chiefs’ Rashee Rice situation, and broader league developments. Lively banter and strong opinions drive the show, with expert guests offering context and bold takes.

---

NBA Playoffs Focus: Spurs vs. Thunder, Wembanyama’s Breakout, SGA’s Pressure

Wembanyama’s Redemption Game

Timestamps: 03:07–08:34

• Colin’s Take:
  • The Spurs force Game 7 after a "masterful" Wembanyama performance in Game 6 (28 points, hot start from three).
  • Wembanyama’s presence is dominant: “He was in his bag…he’s seven foot five…hitting step-back threes in the first quarter and the crowd is geeked.” (Colin, 03:38)
• Dylan Harper’s Impact:
  • Returned from injury and brought high energy; praised Wembanyama’s “Shaolin monk robe” pregame outfit and infectious energy.
  • “We all had a bad taste in our mouth…that’s just what Vic do, that’s the type of guy he is.” (Dylan Harper, as quoted by Colin, 04:53)
• Concerns:
  • Colin questions whether the Spurs can translate aggressive defense to the road game and if OKC’s shooters will bounce back (OKC missed 30 threes in Game 6).
  • Spurs need to keep up their physicality, as shown by Vassell’s block on Chet Holmgren.

SGA’s Struggles, Legacy Talk, and Flopping Debate

Timestamps: 08:34–16:32

• Statline:
  • SGA shot 6 of 18, only 3 free throws in Game 6; season and series percentages are poor.
• Colin’s Critique:
  • “Here he is flopping every time he goes up...it’s almost like the memo is out, ‘Hey guys, we’re not calling that crap anymore.’”(Colin, 07:50)
  • Frames SGA’s playoff performance and “flopping” as increasingly defining his narrative. Draws LeBron legacy comparisons, noting how LeBron needed historic achievements to move past early-career criticisms.
  • “SGA is now going to be connected to flopping forever.” (Colin, 09:37)
• SGA’s Response:
  • “A lot of the shots that I’m shooting, I’ve shot plenty of times before and they feel good, they’re just not going in… I’ve got to trust it and live or die by it now.” (SGA, 08:43)
• Plus/Minus Stat:
  • “When he’s off the court in the series the Thunder are better—they’re plus ten; when he’s on, they’re minus twenty-eight.” (Colin, 15:05)
• Legacy Conversation:
  • Colin compares SGA to historical guards (Rip Hamilton, CJ McCollum, Allan Houston) and claims the persistent flopping puts SGA below legends (Kobe, Wade).
  • “This flopping is exposing him…he’s not in that class.” (Colin, 13:21)
• Jason Whitlock’s Perspective:
  • “All teams flop, lots of players flop…but because [SGA] seems to do it the most…viewers are frustrated…the people it hurts most are the fans.” (16:32)
• Memorable Moment:
  • Colin’s extended, impassioned “legacy rant” about SGA dominated the first segment.
  • “Your mom and your seventy-eight-year-old grandma are aware of the flopping…because it’s being talked about everywhere!” (Colin, 09:57)

Guest Segment: Ryan Hollins on Flopping, SGA’s Value, and Game 7

Timestamps: 41:51–50:43

• Hollins on Flopping:
  • “The league is going to have to address it…there’s a level where all great players have foul baited… but SGA is in a different tier.…It’s where people question the integrity of the game, but he’s still a dog on the floor.” (Ryan Hollins, 42:54)
• On SGA’s Impact:
  • Despite the criticisms, SGA “closed out Game 5” and is still the guy Hollins would trust for a final shot: “If you had a final shot… you’re giving the ball to SGA.” (43:31)
• **Colin pushes the plus-minus question; Hollins credits Spurs’ defensive schemes and personnel (“built to attack OKC”) for neutralizing SGA.
• OKC MVP Debate:
  • Caruso praised as a potential MVP (“Caruso would be deserving but make no mistake, everything goes through SGA.” 47:24)
• Game 7 Predictions:
  • Hollins: Heart says Spurs, head says OKC (“Role players play better at home; they’ve got experience. Game seven is a different game than all other games…It looks different, it feels different, it smells different.” 50:43)
• Quick Knicks Take:
  • Knicks would have a better chance against the inexperienced Spurs in the next round.

---

NFL Segment: Lamar Jackson & Harbaugh’s Departure, Chiefs’ WR Drama

Lamar Jackson Finally Reacts to Coach Harbaugh’s Exit

Timestamps: 21:34–27:37

• Colin’s Critique:
  • Discusses reports that Lamar “would be up playing video games late and fall asleep in meetings,” leading to late practices in Baltimore.
  • Compares Lamar to James Harden: “Awesome regular season player, dynamic, unstoppable—but what have you done for me lately in the playoffs? …There’s a reason nobody puts up with this crap anymore.”
  • Highlights Lamar’s silence after Harbaugh’s firing, contrasting it with QB norms.
• Lamar’s Statement:
  • “It was a shock, you know, in a way, in a sense...I hope Coach has a great time in New York…hats off to him, we built a lot.” (Lamar Jackson, 25:27)
  • Colin’s reaction: “It only took four months...He could have done that at the exit interview.” (25:55)
• Playoff Performance Critique:
  • “He’s got as many playoff wins as CJ Stroud and as many as Drake May… If you’re a two time MVP, show me the massive, unbelievable playoff win…” (Colin, 26:51)

Chiefs’ Rashee Rice, AJ Brown Trade Chatter

Timestamps: 27:40–31:47

• Rachel Nichols/Whitlock on Rashee Rice:
  • “He’s serving thirty days in jail for probation violations…Andy Reid’s a big second chance guy…maybe this time after jail, he’ll learn so much.” (28:42)
• AJ Brown Possibility:
  • Discussion on whether the Chiefs might pursue AJ Brown given wide receiver drama and lack of reliable options.

---

NBA Policy Changes & Offseason Impacts

New Lottery Reform

Timestamps: 31:11–36:16

• Rule Summary:
  • Lottery expands to 16 teams. Bottom three teams only get two ping pong balls; play-in losers now get odds.
• Colin and Whitlock Critique:
  • Jason: “Tanking is a symptom, not the problem…Bad teams don’t have enough avenues to get better.” (31:53)
  • Colin: “It feels like an overreaction…penalizes teams who lose stars to injury…” (32:49)
  • Both foresee “unintended consequences”—fewer trades, greater uncertainty in draft pick value, and skepticism that this really addresses the underlying issues.

---

Quick NFL and NBA Takes

Chicago Bears’ Caleb Williams Maturity

Timestamps: 36:16–37:55

• Rachel: Reports on change of expectations; Ben Johnson says “training wheels are off.”
• Colin: Bears’ tough 2026 schedule might cause regression; division is stacked.

Knicks & NBA Finals Outlook

Timestamps: 48:31–50:43

• Mitchell Robinson Injury:
  • Hollins: Broken finger mainly affects free throws; “hack-a-Robinson” likely.
• Eastern Conference Preview:
  • Knicks better vs. inexperienced Spurs; Western Conference Final may feature the real title clash.

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “He looks like the beginning of a Wu-Tang video—love it.” (Colin on Wemby’s pregame outfit, 05:21)
• “The stench of [LeBron’s] departure from Cleveland lingered for years. …SGA could have forty [points] and maybe that takes off some of the stain, but I’m telling you, this flopping, constantly going to the ground, I mean people are running numbers on how often he falls.” (Colin, 15:35)
• “If you had a final shot … everything on the line … you’re giving the ball to SGA.” (Ryan Hollins, 43:31)
• “Tanking is the symptom, it’s not the problem…” (Jason Whitlock, 31:53)
• “Game seven is a different game than all other games … It looks different, it feels different, it smells different.” (Ryan Hollins, 50:43)

---

Episode Structure (Key Timestamps)

• 03:07–16:32: NBA Playoffs Deep Dive, SGA/Wemby/Spurs-OKC Narrative
• 21:34–27:37: Lamar Jackson on Harbaugh, NFL Playoff Legacies
• 27:40–36:16: Chiefs WR Drama, AJ Brown Trade, NBA Lottery Policy
• 41:51–50:43: Ryan Hollins Interview: Flopping, Playoff Clutch, NBA Finals Outlook

---

Summary

A high-energy, opinionated episode where Colin Cowherd anchors around playoff stakes, the scrutiny—and narrative risks—of young NBA stars, and the persistent drama in NFL quarterbacking. Alongside guest voices, the podcast dissects basketball and football with both humor and edge, yielding a compelling snapshot of the moment’s hot sports stories.

Transcript

[Jason Whitlock]

this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human

[Apple Card Advertiser]

brought to you by apple card hey you could be earning two percent daily cash back on that purchase and that one and even that one that's because apple card users earn two percent daily cash back on every purchase including everyday items they buy online or in store when using their apple card with apple pay not an apple card customer you can apply in the wallet app on iphone subject to credit approval apple card issued by goldman sachs bank usa salt lake city branch terms and more at apple co benefits support for the show

[Colin Cowherd]

comes from public huh i wonder if this can beat the market everyone's talking about the nasdaq one hundred but let's get more specific software actually too broad how about software that's already profitable companies that beat the last five quarters oh and i want founders who are marathon runners that's discipline yeah let's see what

[Public.com Advertiser]

that looks like with generated assets on public you can turn any idea into an investable index just enter a prompt and watch the ai screen thousands of stocks in seconds you can then back test your index against the s and p five hundred make adjustments refine your criteria and when you're ready invest in what you've built go to public dot com and build your own index with generated assets plus earn a one percent uncapped match when you transfer your portfolio public investing for those who take it seriously ad paid for by public holdings brokerage services by public investing member finra sipc advisory services by public advisors sec registered advisor sample prompts are for illustrative purposes only not investment advice all investing involves risk of loss see complete disclosures at public dot com disclosures do you

[CarMax Advertiser]

want to find a stress free way to buy your next car start at carmax and shop your way if you want to browse with confidence get pre qualified online with no impact on your credit score and shop cars within your budget from luxury cars to family rides carmax has options for almost every price range including more than twenty five thousand cars priced under twenty five thousand dollars so hey want to get started just head to carmax dot com for details and get pre qualified today want to

[Discover Card Advertiser]

drive carmax it's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day and with discover you can get this discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year seriously all of it and we trust you to make smart decisions i mean after all you listen to this show see terms at discover dot

[Electric Vehicle Advertiser]

com credit card thanks for listening to the herd podcast be sure to catch us live every weekday on fox sports radio and noon to three eastern nine am to noon pacific find your local station for the herd at foxsportsradio dot com or stream us live every day on the iheartradio app by searching fox sports radio or fsr now let's get

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

this party started you're listening to fox sports radio

[Colin Cowherd]

hello and welcome to the herd it is a perfect friday here in the final week of may it's perfect because the spurs destroyed the oklahoma city thunder yes that's a forlorn sg nba on the bench folks i don't think i thought i would have this kind of energy after what happened in game five but game six a totally different story we have a phenomenal show jam packed today some outstanding guests the foremost nba draft analyst stopping by former nfl player yes lamar jackson is still in the news i know you don't really want to hear it but i'm going to jump right in let's get right to it okay it's time baby for victor wembanyama we challenged him on this show after he wet the bed in game five could not do anything offensively four for fifteen hey wemby you going to show up for your legacy game and guess who showed up in spades last night in game six victor wembanyama started off the first quarter unbelievably hot hit his first three threes i mean listen he was in his bag eleven points right out of the gate when wemby is hitting step back threes in the first quarter and the crowd is geeked i mean folks look at that's a step back three look at that he's seven foot five okay now victor wembanyama finished with twenty eight in a masterful performance he got some help from his guys we'll get to them in a moment specifically dylan harper harper if you remember was injured earlier in the series he was dynamic in game one he was everywhere he was our second best player and then the injury happened got a one way ticket on the struggle bus we haven't seen him guy was on a milk carton and then he showed up last night and here's what dylan harper had to say about wembanyama's awesome pregame outfit and the energy it gave the team i know

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

victor's always locked in but you see him come in with i don't know if you saw with the shaolin monk robe and he's he's he's animated like that you know before the game did you kind of have a feeling he was going to you know come out that hot of a start yeah i mean we all had a bad taste in our mouth at the last game we felt like we left a lot on the table and that's just what vic do i think that's the type of guy he is you know man in his words so when he came in he kind of came with the outfit i think everyone knew knew what

[Colin Cowherd]

was going to happen yeah listen now the spurs get to force game seven here's the pre game outfit you know fit check wemby i mean looks like the beginning of a wu tang video love it here's the only concern okc missed thirty three pointers okay we know when they go home they're not going to miss them they're not caruso is going to be banging them you're going to have kayson wallace all these guys are going to make all their threes i'm just curious if the spurs can hold them off and actually play as good of defense on the road as they did at home now i know okc didn't get their whistle that they want we'll get to them in a moment but if de' aaron fox continues to play at such a poor level folks he was one of nine last night five of twenty four in the last two games if they're not getting anything from fox i'm being honest i don't think they can go into game seven and win now we have seen two game seven road victories this postseason the sixers went into boston and the cavs went into detroit neither of those venues sorry is anything like okc all right it's just it's just not okc last year two game sevens one against denver aaron gordon was hurt kind of playing on one leg they went in handily and then there was the pacers game where tyrese halliburton goes down with the achilles in like the first ten minutes or first five minutes and that was a wrap i do think if they can bring the devin vassell energy you saw the clip there he blocked chet homegrown at the rim got in his face gave him a little shove like i'm not going anywhere we're not backing down i need to see that on the road and i don't know if the young guys could do that the line is three and a half i haven't bet it we've been giving out free money on the show we we told you knicks in a romp we told you yesterday spurs you know we did miss game five but you can't hit them all two and one that's not bad all right let's turn our attention to sga and the okc thunder now i did take a couple shots at sga throughout this season throughout this postseason regular season all of it i'm not an sga hater i know people think i'm a little anti sga but folks you gotta admit j mack kind of nailed this one all right i said before the series he was going to be in trouble i watch those regular season games i know the regular season is different from the playoffs but castle ain't backing down harper is a strong dude he's stronger than sga and sga had another terrible game last night six of eighteen couldn't make a three and he only got three free throws here he is flopping every time he goes up the guy's falling to the ground crumbling it's like that grandma in the commercial i've fallen and i can't get up you've seen those infomercials that's what he looks like seriously look every time he drives just falling to the ground the refs aren't taking that bait anymore it's almost like the memo is out hey guys we're not calling that crap anymore he is struggling so badly this season here are the season numbers against the spurs in this series it's even worse he's at thirty seven percent shooting twenty six percent from threes guys i'm not going to totally bury him yet give me another minute here's sga talking about his shooting struggles last night

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

a lot of the shots that i'm shooting i've shot plenty of times before and they feel good they're just not going in yeah it's too late to abandon my work and abandon my game and who i am this late in the season i gotta trust it and live or die by it now

[Colin Cowherd]

i will say that jj redick and the lakers started this they saw it last series hey we got to get the ball out of his hands marcus smart was physical with him and they made him give it up the problem was he had aj mitchell as his wingman and aj mitchell can create for himself and for others so now aj mitchell's out with the calf and that's not great to be totally fair aj mitchell was very good this year he played nineteen total minutes in the nba finals last year so i'm not gonna act like oh my god it's all nba guy maybe down the road and he was good this year let's not act like oh no aj mitchell you can't win the series then there's the j dub factor and oh my gosh what a bad decision for him to play i think they were hoping he would give them like an energy boost like a what willis reed moment you know hey he's going to give it a go j dub was terrible i mean to the point there he is with a turnover like i mean that's like me in our men's league i can't handle it half court against pressure i'm a truth i'm a tell truth teller guys j d was coughing it up ten minutes he was minus eighteen not great so that's out of the way but as a result the pressure's on sga and he's not delivering now this is a little bit crazy okay you know i'm willing to say some wacky stuff this is super strong so there's a headline out there today sga one loss away from having his entire legacy slandered that's an actual headline on the internet today and initially you know you laugh you're like oh geez legacy sga is twenty seven he turns twenty eight this summer what legacy slandered take a deep breath shucks you know the flopping is out of control it's the number one narrative in the series your mom and your seventy eight year old grandma are aware of the flopping why because it's being talked about everywhere you can't turn on a tv show podcast radio without hearing this and all it's all over social media the videos are three minutes long of any every time sga fell to the ground in the series like it's a real thing you've got his olympic teammate making up a fun board game about sga you can't breathe on him so i do wonder i i thought about this and i'm like you know this flopping it's a narrative it's a thing you can't shake it fga is now going to be connected to flopping forever so i thought about it the only comparison i could come up with was when lebron left cleveland the first time okay he does the special with jim gray not a great look he goes to miami his first press conference is we got chris bosh me d wade we're not going to win not one not two not three and they and they made this that we're going to win all the titles and then they come out in year one and lose to dallas in the finals and it was one of those well i don't want to hear anything about lebron being a star are you kidding me okay he couldn't shake that for like five years i'm not even kidding this this was a real thing he won back to back titles with the heat it didn't matter remember when they lost to dallas they said they were going to win fifty titles so he goes back to cleveland and he's down three one to the seventy three win warriors the greatest regular season team in nba history they have to come back from down three one for lebron to erase the stench of ditching cleveland with the press conference and then not one not two not three again that was such a big story nationwide that it took lebron three championships including a historic one to wipe that off his resume and now people move on okay well he beat this team he's him lebron's that guy and i just wonder like sga has kind of dug himself a bit of a hole here folks this flopping this inability to get to the free throw line and i and i start coming up with comparisons i'm like okay so if sga isn't getting a favorable whistle and getting to the foul line and he's get being held to fifteen points and you know he's not a three point shooter he would admit that who is he and i start looking around the league like who are some great shooting guards who couldn't really get to the free throw line but were excellent you know it reminded me of conan o' brien's if they mated remember that skit that he had where it'd be like celebrity a and celebrity b have a kid ha ha ha look what it looks like so i was doing an if they made it with sga no free throws and like great shooting guards of the past and i'm like so is sga basically like a cj mccollum if he doesn't get a favorable whistle which is not slander mccollum's a really good player all star he might have made an all nba team like is sga allen houston knicks fans know him well really good shooter didn't shoot a lot of free throws oh four or five free throws a game sga's like nine free throws a game he shot seventeen and three quarters the other night that's where he makes his living and again this is not slander to allen houston cj mccullum maybe he's rip hamilton a great champion detroit piston legend rip hamilton mid range game like i think that's all reasonable where people are not going to accept sga stuff folks is just well hey you know we're going to have to have some uncomfortable conversations if sga has two titles and two mvp's like no we don't no because this flopping is exposing him as not even close to the category of of a kobe of a d wade of all the great shooting guards in nba history he's not in that class now if they lose on saturday at home holy hell they will have been the number one seed three years in a row and they will have got to the finals once that's a disappointment now maybe they win game seven and he goes on but if you guys remember yesterday i had chris broussard on the show and i said cb the mvp if they win game six is alex caruso and he scoffed at me and then i hit him with some numbers and he kind of came back a little bit let's show on the screen sga the two time mvp when he's off the court in the series the okc thunder are better they're plus ten with sga off the court when he's on the court they're minus twenty eight that is the inverse of victor wembanyama aka the best player in the league now obviously plus minus isn't everything and the thunder have gotten off to some slow starts i don't know how that happens with the two time mvp defending champion team whatever but on the court he's minus twenty eight alex caruso by the way is a big plus when he's on the court crusoe was fine last night nobody was good for them but folks we head to game seven and you know i we could play this double legacy game all all day and jason how is somebody playing for their legacy at twenty seven years old that's goofy but but again just think back to that lebron thing the stench of his departure from cleveland lingered for years okay i mean sga could have forty and maybe this takes off some of the stain but i'm just telling you this falling this flopping constantly going to the ground i mean people are running numbers how often he falls to the ground so i don't think he's going to be able to erase it even with a title now yeah i had to start the show with some hot takes rachel nichols i want to bring you in here before we get to break again i am known as like kind of a quasi anti sga guy that was a bit of a nine minute rant but again it's backed up by data and i think what you're you're watching the same game i am yeah if he doesn't get to the line he's not the same player look i

[Jason Whitlock]

think your comp with the not one not two not three is exactly right it's not going to ruin his legacy this guy's a two time mvp already you know and he's you know however many wins first round you know number one seeds all that kind of stuff gotten to one maybe two finals he'll be fine his legacy will be fine but the stench of how people see him in a certain way that can stick around for four or five years there's no question about that and look all teams flop lots of players flop but because he seems to do it the most at least the perception he doesn't get to the line the most by the way in the league but because he seems to fall down the most it's sort of been pinned on him and viewers are frustrated we talked about this the other day flopping the people it hurts most are the fans right it's not the other team because if there's no free throw then actually they're getting to go up the court you know five on four but the fans it is miserable watching this over and over and over again and people are going to blame someone for taking some of their joy out of basketball

[Colin Cowherd]

yeah all right coming up next here on the herd folks lamar jackson finally finally it took him four months to talk about the departure of his head coach john harbaugh wait till you hear what he had to say that's next on the herd

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon eastern nine am pacific on fox sports radio fs one and the iheartradio

[Rob Parker]

app this is rob parker and i'm here with an important public service announcement whatever you do do not listen to the paulie and tony fusco show fox sports radio asked me to do a promo but i'm here to do a no mo as in don't listen to this show no mo the host of two fools from philly who have the dumbest takes ever in all of sports talk and you know if i'm saying that they must really be bad i have no idea why fox sports radio picked this up but i know where to put it down in the trash can so please don't listen to the paulie and tony fusco show no way

[Apple Card Advertiser]

no how brought to you by apple card apple card users get two percent daily cash back on purchases made in store and online whether it's for big ticket items or everyday purchases when they use their apple card with apple pay now that's a benefit that's just too good to pass up you could be earning two percent daily cash back when you use your apple card with apple pay to buy turmeric for your signature curry two percent back on flights to visit the family in tucson and even two percent back on your kid's new tuba you might even be able to get two percent back on a tuba tutor not an apple card customer you can apply in the wallet app on iphone subject to credit approval apple card issued by goldman sachs bank usa salt lake city branch terms and more at apple co benefits support for the show

[Public.com Advertiser]

comes from public if you look at your investing app what do you see an interface stuck in nineteen ninety seven or something that looks modern but feels more like a casino than a place to build wealth public is different it's the investing platform for those who take it seriously on public you can build your portfolio for the long haul stocks options bonds crypto it's all there but what really makes public different is the technology behind it imagine starting your day with an ai summarized market briefing getting clear summaries of earnings calls the moment they end or turning any idea into an investable index just by typing a prompt this is what investing looks like when the tools finally catch up go to public dot com and earn a one percent uncapped match when you transfer your portfolio public investing for those who take it seriously seriously ad paid for by public holdings brokerage services by public investing member finra sipc advisory services by public advisors sec registered advisor crypto services by zerohash all investing involves risk of loss see complete disclosures at public dot

[Electric Vehicle Advertiser]

com disclosures imagine never buying gas again ev's are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life drive daily with confidence everywhere you go most americans drive forty miles a day most ev's are equipped with two hundred to four hundred miles of range they've got fewer parts fewer repairs and fewer headaches with hundreds of new and used ev models available today there's an ev to fit every lifestyle and every budget i love my electric vehicle it's easy no more gas stations the way forward is electric learn more at lectric for

[Discover Card Advertiser]

all dot org it's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day and with discover you can get this discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year seriously all of it and we trust you to make smart decisions i mean after all you listen to this show see terms at discover dot com credit card

[Colin Cowherd]

you couldn't tell very fired up gotta love a game seven we're gonna have ryan hollins former nba center stopping by we always love to chop it up i'm going to go ahead and guess he's rolling with the thunder a lot of people seem to like okc in that one line is three and a half if you're into gambling all right let's go to the nfl and listen you know all the smart people on the internet say never read the comments well unfortunately i read some of the comments yesterday after we talked about lamar jackson and you guys seem very upset with me like i'm taking shots at lamar i'm not being nice i like lamar i try to draft him every year in fantasy i'm a good fantasy football player believe it or not and i just at the end of the day it comes down to like is he delivering when it matters the most in the postseason and so far the answer has been no and the blame is always shifted to someone else lamar often escapes criticism so interestingly and i pointed this out back in january when harbaugh got runoff it was pretty clear that lamar was behind it now lamar can deny it all he wants we'll never get the true story but about a month prior late december an article dropped in the baltimore sun from a guy named mike preston a veteran journalist who's been around the block he clearly is well sourced in the building in baltimore and among some of the interesting things he wrote and it's clear this came out because there was a lot of frustrations from from within the team with lamar is that he would be up playing video games late and he would fall asleep in meetings the next day and because he would fall stay up late playing video games into the middle of the night they couldn't have practice in the morning and they had to practice in the heat in the afternoon and again if you're a lamar defender who cares he's a star he's won two mvp's okay jay didn't you see the article you guys talked about on the show giannis in milwaukee was late for every plane trip because he's the star of the team okay slight difference giannis led the bucks to a championship their first in fifty some odd years you win a championship you do whatever the hell you want if patrick mahomes we don't hear stories about patrick mahomes being late if he were late i don't think anybody would care because he's what of all that he's done for the chiefs and then there's stories about steph curry well you know steph curry they they fly around his golf schedule they might push it back so he can finish eighteen steph curry is one of the greatest players of his generation and has brought immense wealth to the warriors anybody who's played with him is eating forever multiple championships it's okay

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

i'll say the

[Colin Cowherd]

comp for lamar is james harden awesome regular season player dynamic unstoppable what have you done for me lately in the playoffs james harden a vanishing act every year and this is where it gets real interesting a lot of stuff about james harden off the field off the court and i just looked there's a reason nobody puts up with this crap anymore he's played for five teams in the last six years lamar they're not going to put up with your crap anymore and harbaugh was clearly sick of it they had their rift and lamar won the power battle which usually happens the quarterback usually wins out the quarterback's making you know fifty mil the coaches make it ten or fifteen mil whatever it is you're going to pick the quarterback lamar never said anything about harbaugh's firing on social media most players after the coach is fired or leaved you know go see what dax said about mccarthy josh allen on mcdermott and so on and so forth plenty of it everybody says things about their coach after they're gone nothing from lamar until yesterday here's what lamar said about john harbaugh

[Lamar Jackson]

i got a lot of respect for koso me just saying that man it was to our shot you know in a way in a sense but i feel like you know mister steve he did what was best for the team and you know i hope coaches have a great great time in new york man hats off to coach because we did so much for for the for the city for the team for this organization hats off to him in new york and we built a lot we

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

did a lot here that's good i

[Colin Cowherd]

mean it only took four months he could have done that at the exit interview but maybe the wounds were still raw i i don't know again two things can be true lamar jackson is an awesome quarterback he's destined for the hall of fame i think we could say with two mvp's right is there anybody with two mvp's not in the hall of fame and at the same time he's been underwhelming in the postseason and he clearly ran off his coach harbaugh if you gave him truth serum you tied him up in a chair and said take this truth serum he would probably say some unflattering things about the end with lamar i mean i don't see how this is a hot take and while you guys are coming after me like honestly i'm just an innocent bystander here giving you some takes based on news and quotes and facts i can't i'm sorry that your feelings are hurt that i'm being a little tough on lamar jackson but he's got as many playoff wins as cj stroud as many as drake may and yes playoff windsor a team stat but i mean if you're a two time mvp like show me the massive unbelievable playoff win that lamar jackson's had that that you know is impressive i mean i think his playoff wins are all against quarterbacks where he was favored one of them was against ryan tannehill i remember that one on the road he beat cj stroud in one of the playoff games i think that was stroud's rookie year but it does it's really irrelevant bottom line is lamar dominate like you do in the regular season in the playoffs and then nobody's going to care if you get the coach runoff let's go to rachel nichols with the news no no no turn on the news

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

this is the herd line news jason

[Jason Whitlock]

my favorite part of that lamar sound we just ran is he goes i was shocked in a sense i was shocked except i also was involved so you know these things happen all right let's get over to the chiefs because as you know receiver rasheed rice he's currently trying to rehab from his knee surgery but that's a little tricky since he is serving thirty days in jail for probation violations andy reid spoke about rice's situation after practice take a listen

[Andy Reid]

we're aware of the situation the league's aware of it we've talked to the league we get it and as far as any further ado to that there's been no talk about anything further we're moving forward just normal as we go here you know when he gets back we gotta get him caught up and doing what he needs to do you know it's not an easy thing he's going through so life lessons are important but we're all given chances to learn and so he's in that position now

[Jason Whitlock]

look we all know andy is a big second chance guy had some family stuff that made him really give guys you know the benefit of the doubt over and over again the learning we're going to learn from this he's going to learn from this i don't know jason because last summer after he'd come off the car crash that caused all of this in the first place he said he had quote completely changed and that he's learned so much so maybe this time after jail he'll learn so much i don't know whether it's because rice is clearly unpredictable or because they just need to beef up their receivers room are you surprised that they're not going after aj brown damn i was

[Colin Cowherd]

just thinking that as you were reading that i'm like this guy's a nightmare i wonder is i mean again rice is on his rookie deal i believe

[Jason Whitlock]

i'm not saying i wonder if there's a rule in addition to yeah what

[Colin Cowherd]

if he gets out of jail and they're like you know what this is just such a bad look for us we're going to we're going to move on we're cutting you they're not going

[Jason Whitlock]

to do that they probably would have done that already yes right but do

[Colin Cowherd]

they have room for aj brown in

[Jason Whitlock]

that receiver room yeah it's aj brown

[Colin Cowherd]

you make room for him taquan thornton i thought he was the big deep threat i mean what about the who who's the skinny kid out of texas that they got xavier worthy remember how he was immortal yes just wait until last season right yeah wait till xavier worthy shows up then it's game over and then it's like xavier worthy's like two targets for fourteen yards like i don't know you're i think you're right they could use an aj brown and he would stretch the field probably give some more room to travis kelce underneath and then help help with the run game i get to read the sense and it's early that they're going to be going heavy to the ground game here yeah you get kenneth walker you got the other back d mercado i think they're going to go a little more to the ground game that's my guess to prevent the too high shell from keeping mahomes in check i mean

[Jason Whitlock]

sure but having another weapon to i mean we've heard between the patriots and the eagles the big issue is is he worth giving up a first round pick the patriots don't want to do that i give up a first round pick if you're kansas city for his first year after playing for the eagles after all of this back and forth he is going to be he's going to be like saquon after the giants he's going to be a monster on the field right i like that and and this is you know we're not the end of patrick mahomes prime but you know he's getting getting into it certainly the end of travis kelce's you know situation so by the way are

[Colin Cowherd]

you going to the wedding or are you not allowed to talk about that

[Jason Whitlock]

you know we can't talk about that

[Colin Cowherd]

okay wow wow we don't talk about

[Jason Whitlock]

fight club jason it doesn't there you go all right let's get to this lottery reform because i'm going to explain it to you jason it's going to be so simple oh yes the nba decided you know we know how to fight tanking we are going to change the format here you go sixteen teams in the lottery instead of fourteen the three worst teams in the league only get two ping pong balls so so do the nine and ten seeds in the play in round teams that miss the playoffs and the play in except for the bottom three teams of course get three ping pong balls and teams that lose their second play in game get one pick one ping pong ball you've got that right jason good oh dear you good simple no issues is

[Colin Cowherd]

there more it's just i i'll let you go because i know you're passionate on this i have some thoughts as

[Jason Whitlock]

well go ahead look you know i've said this for months that tanking is the symptom it's not the problem it's the symptom of the fact that bad teams don't have enough avenues to get better especially as they've added these aprons and shrunk free agency and trades the way they have however if you are going to do this you have to know this is going to have what adam silver likes to call unintended consequences as well right that always happens when they over legislate a problem it happened when kevin durant went to golden state a bunch of the owners were really mad small market teams this is going to happen to all of us so they put in the supermax that's caused teams a bunch of problems supermax was causing teams problems let's put in these aprons well then you get less trades bad teams have less avenues to get better i just i see a lot of unintended consequences here i just i just let it be this was a really good draft everyone wanted in it's not going to be that way next year no matter what and now it's really not going to be that way

[Colin Cowherd]

next year yeah it feels like a bit of an overreaction you know your kids late for curfew the first time and you ground them for six months like whoa whoa six months really i don't know i'm with you i think this is a massive draft we'll have a draft analyst on later and it's like i mean it's a one off we're not going to see eight teams tanking next year for the kid out here in california who's an awesome football and basketball player now he's just basketball stokes i believe is his last name but it's like this was random so this is what ticks me off so the indiana pacers lose halliburton for the year they lose miles turner to the bucks so you're down two starters your best offensive player your engine right and your best defensive player your anchor so obviously they were not going to be good they're not taking well they were terrible they were not tanking and then they decided well holy smokes of course let's tank yes and so they were tanking at the end but nobody's watching the pacers who were a fifteen win team anyway right but like if your star player goes down you're now going to be terrible and you're not going to reap the benefits of being terrible i don't know don't you think that penalizes unintended consequences of injuries i mean

[Jason Whitlock]

look the play in right has been one of the league's great successes over the last few years i mean that was a genius idea it's worked really well you're basically taking a lot of that away because it disincentivizes you from winning your playing games you get more lottery balls if you lose your playing games and unless you think i'm going to get into that seven eight seed and i'm going to take down the oklahoma you know thunder or i'm going to take down that number one or two seed most people fighting out of ninth and tenth no they're not going to win their first round playoff series so now they're all going to be like you know what actually we're good we're good we just want to get an extra ping pong ball you're going to have less trades because teams don't know the value of draft picks anymore it's just so up and down so they're going to be a lot less likely to give away draft picks because you don't really have a sense of where they're going to fall mikhail bridges you know everyone's first five you know five first round picks that trade wouldn't have happened mikael bridges is a key part of this nba finals run wouldn't have happened because no team's giving away five first rounders if they have no idea what's going to happen to them no team might want them back so

[Colin Cowherd]

you think this means fewer trades i think so of picks yeah i mean listen the off season used to be the crown jewel of the nba it was like who's leaving now because of the second april nobody's moving and now you're saying probably fewer trades of picks because you don't know where they're going

[Jason Whitlock]

to land and the one dissenting vote in all of this was the memphis grizzlies and that is because they are getting completely screwed over in this two days ago they had a first round draft pick via utah from a trade that was worth a lot more than yesterday where it's no longer worth very much because of what utah did the past couple years it's a lot going on we'll see you know look it's only for three years it has a sunset clause we'll see what happens a sunset clause yeah that just means that you know we're going to try this for three years and then we can re up we either re up or we can tinker again it'd be great maybe they can take her again jason after three years by the way i

[Colin Cowherd]

will say the idea of a play in team getting missing out on the actual playoffs and getting the number one like the warriors what if they got the number one pick that is kind of cool and fun but you're already a pretty good team if you're the bottom of the barrel wizards sorry yeah sorry you're sol guys maybe so all

[Jason Whitlock]

right you and i jason were on tv together last summer during you know a bunch of these training camps and do you remember caleb wilson caleb williams was getting you know less reps he didn't play that first preseason game because basically didn't learn the offense he wasn't good enough ben johnson actually pulled his first team off the field during otas because they just weren't getting it so a big learning time clearly for caleb right as he was going through all of this and it took him a while right obviously figured it out they won the nfc north but this year ben johnson is laying out he wants a completely different expectation a different thing from caleb he's basically said training wheels

[Ben Johnson]

are off take a listen everyone knows what the expectations are in the building what meetings look like we talked about that meetings walk through practice you know it's noticeable to me just one day of otas the guys that were here last year versus the new guys to the program whether they're rookies or free agents there's just a different level of i don't want to say comfort but they know they know what it's supposed to look like and so that's a good thing

[Jason Whitlock]

look this coupled with his comments from earlier in the week where he basically said do less do less caleb less freelancing he's basically saying last year was about middle memorizing right you got to know the system memorize it this year you should have it memorized so now it's about judgment within that system now that you know the framework let's have better judgment and that is what they're going to be working on this summer i don't know do you think i mean do you think the bears are going to be even better

[Colin Cowherd]

this i thought like okay maybe they're a super bowl team but the more you look at that schedule it is dicey and you wonder if there's a little regression in year two under ben johnson everybody's seen the schedule that he's going to be putting forward and the offensive ideas we'll see that division is extremely hard you know they are playing the first place schedule got to go to seattle got to go to oz got to go to buffalo those are two of the elite teams in the league i don't know i think they'll be good i'm not totally done with off season work yet but i think we'll see what happens with ben johnson it's going to be fun rachel with the news well that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news all right coming up we're going to talk game seven with ryan hollins former nba center who's got the edge is it wemby or is it struggling sga that's next be sure to catch

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

live editions of the herd weekdays at noon eastern nine am pacific brought to

[Apple Card Advertiser]

you by apple card apple card users get two percent daily cash back on purchases made in store and online whether it's for big ticket items or everyday purchases when they use their apple card with apple pay now that's a benefit that's just too good to pass up you could be earning two percent daily cash back when you use your apple card with apple pay to buy turmeric for your signature curry two percent back on flights to visit the family in tucson and even two percent back on your kid's new tuba you might even be able to get two percent back on a tuba tutorial not an apple card customer you can apply in the wallet app on iphone subject to credit approval apple card issued by goldman sachs bank usa salt lake city branch terms and more at apple co benefits support

[Electric Vehicle Advertiser]

for the show comes from public so it kind of feels like there's two types of investing platforms you got the old school brokerages that look like they were designed in like nineteen ninety five then you have those other platforms the ones that feel less like investing and more like a casino public is neither it's the investing platform for people who actually take this stuff seriously you know people who are serious about building their wealth because on public you can build a portfolio of stocks and options and bonds and crypto without all the bugs or the confetti retirement accounts yep high yield cash of course they even have direct indexing honestly this is what investing platform should look like modern design simple to use and customer support that actually cares go to public dot com cowherd and earn an uncapped one percent bonus when you transfer your portfolio that's public dot com calhurt ad paid for by

[Colin Cowherd]

public holdings brokerage services by public investing member finra sipc advisory services by public advisors sec registered advisor crypto services by zerohash all investing involves risk of loss see complete disclosures at public dot com

[Electric Vehicle Advertiser]

disclosures imagine never buying gas again ev's are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life drive daily with confidence everywhere you go most americans drive forty miles a day most ev's are equipped with two hundred to four hundred miles of range they've got fewer parts fewer repairs and fewer headaches with hundreds of new and used ev models available today there's an ev to fit every lifestyle and every budget i love my electric vehicle it's easy no more gas stations the way forward is electric learn more at electric for all

[Discover Card Advertiser]

dot org it's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day and with discover you can get this discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year seriously all of it and we trust you to make smart decisions i mean after all you listen to this show see terms at discover dot

[Colin Cowherd]

com credit card right now by former nba center ryan hollins great voice on the nba rockets tv analyst we've been chopping it up for years radio tv everything my man how fired up are you for game seven on saturday night

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

i'm ecstatic man it's the two best words that we have in sports game seven you're going to see basketball in its purest form it's going to be physical these teams are going to be going at it we got a little personal stuff going on we got wimy pulling hair harden stein pulling hair there's going to be some musty tv yeah

[Colin Cowherd]

all right so let's dive right in i got to start with the flopping okay i know a lot of people it's a polarizing topic if you've been on social media the last ten days flopping is everything sga is the king flopper they've run this is not just like subjective they've run the numbers nobody falls to the ground more than sga ryan you've played with and against floppers this is egregious do you think this is a stain on the league

[Jason Whitlock]

i

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

think it's something that the league is going to have to address and here's the reality where you have to give credit sga is just good at it and these guys are have mastered the game to where you've got to call a foul they become impossible to guard and there's a level hear me when i say this there's a level where all great players have foul baited michael jordan infamous foul baiter kobe bryant foul baiter like go down the line you have to do it to be successful but what happens is there's tiers of it there's a different tier sga is in a different tier he's in that tier we jalen brunson with james harden okay so when we talk about foul baiting that's where people are questioning the integrity of the game and it's because they've gotten so good at doing it j mack and and and here's the difference sj's got won a championship with it so he's got a lot of game and let's not confuse to say we don't appreciate questioning the integrity of the game but you still are a dog on the floor so there's no question about him and he's won a

[Colin Cowherd]

championship doing it but you say that he didn't get to the foul line last night but three times and he looked like cj mccollum out there taking jump shots which is not a slight he's an all star he's not a two time mvp so again if he's not getting a favorable whistle i mean are we really talking about like an all time great a two time mvp because yeah he gets he's a free throw merchant we get that but if he's not getting the line he's not a three point shooter he doesn't have the body frame to handle and look at this i mean there was a sequence like a twenty five second sequence in the first half where he drove flopped no call come the other way right back two on one break falls no call and it's just like ryan what are we doing man it's just

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

weak j mac did he close out game five did he catch the ball on the wing alex baseline no he hit the shot he got the ball on the wing he ripped and go baseline and he hit the biggest shot in the game to close it out and then he looked at jerick mccain and said easy great players go hot and cold we're not looking for perfection from sga but his numbers and the team success has said it all so if you had to pick a player out of this whole series that you would say hey heck out of the whole the players left right now in the playoffs is there one guy outside of sga over sga that you would give the ball to yeah wembley no stop not in the clutch wait is

[Colin Cowherd]

the guess who's in wemby right now

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

i would give i said the clutch he's the most clutch player well actually

[Colin Cowherd]

i don't know jalen brunson brunson won

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

the award stop playing right now i would give the ball to him over brunson and brunson's a dog you love big body brunson there's no question but you would give the ball to sga if you had a final shot to be taken okay tie game everything on the line or down one you're giving the ball to sga so let's not act like he's not a dog does not take away from what he's doing the foul bait ain't pretty to look at though i'm not going to pretend like you were wrong by that but let's not discredit what he brings to

[Colin Cowherd]

the table have you seen this obviously he brings a lot to the table good luck have you seen the stat through six games they're minus twenty eight with sga on the court how on earth do you explain that your starting

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

guard plays a ton of minutes that's very fair here's the reality when sga is out there they're getting physical with him they're double teaming him the spurs have been able to they have been built to attack oklahoma you know how like with the warriors you had to build a team to play against the warriors you had to build a team to play against shaq and kobe's lakers you had to you had to assemble the spurs have been assembled to go after oklahoma city and they've double teamed him they schemed him they mixed things up early in the in the series they were trapping him at half court saying caruso were going to give open jump shots then they would spot over on the lane wimby would just kind of follow him he in this last game they had success the spurs did because what they do wimy would wait and as soon as those drives happened he's athletic to get over there and slide over so the one thing they've done is keep sga from getting to the rim and a lot of the shots are over contested high big body hand and they have the versatility to guard them so hats off to the

[Colin Cowherd]

spurs man so i told bruce sard yesterday if the series ends caruso is my vote for mvp and he bit my head off and then the staff told me today that a couple guys at espn are now saying i think caruso should be the mvp of the series for the thunder who you got as your mvp through six games for

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

okc i mean this is comparable to you know igu dolla winning the mvp over steph curry steph curry draws the attention every piece of your game plan and i played against steph curry not in the actually yes in the playoffs we have back this is before he was really steph steph but you create game plans to play unorthodox defense against steph curry he's the reason that everything happens in the universe so i think you can credit caruso because in those games there was a reason he was open and hats off to caruso the veteran he stepped up and he made shots they tried to pick on him and they saw that he showed everybody hey i'm not the one i will go out and drop a thirty ball on you and that's why oklahoma city is really darn good because they're seventh and eighth ninth man i don't even think they have a ninth man or a sixth man they just step up and make plays so i think caruso would be deserving but make no mistake everything goes through shape but he's been spectacular not just offensively but on both ends and when that team needed something caruso's been that like hey guys keep it calm hit a shot make something happen so j mac you're not you're not completely slapstick with this one man

[Colin Cowherd]

all right okay slapstick out let's go to the knicks real quick mitchell robinson with the pinky broken had surgery as a big guy hollins a center you know you and mitchell similar i mean i think he's got twenty one of his twenty eight baskets or dunks in the playoffs i'm just curious what's the impact of the broken finger to mitchell robinson and the knicks first off mitchell

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

robinson a much better player than i was man he rebounds like a monster shout out to mitchell robinson by the way this is where it will impact mitchell robinson and you've seen already hack of mitchell robinson will probably be in effect if i'm playing against mitchell robinson and he's out there or in that that the the big lineup that we've seen mike brown implement or try to get some size on the floor to kind of let's assume if it is san antonio to you know attack wimby they're going to get him off the floor with hacker robins other than that dunking the ball getting a rebound he's going to be as effective as he has been it's just a free throw so um if i'm a coach on the opposing side packer mitchell robinson as soon as he steps on the floor i'm going to play him off the floor and then by the nba rules in the last two minutes you can't do it then they can choose another shooter so i would absolutely go more packer robinson that's the only thing it would impact but he's still going to be able to play at a high

[Colin Cowherd]

level all right we got about sixty seconds left i'm just curious who do you think the knicks have a better chance against next round thunder or spurs

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

i would say the spurs and pick your poison either way i think the nba championship is being played right now in the in the western conference but i would say the spurs because inexperience you want to see a team that's new they don't have the same inspiration and in some ways you know if there's a moment of hesitation where they're just happy to be there you got them and i think oklahoma city they have the pedigree they've won their cohesive unit they know what to look like and how they're going to look in these major moments so i think the spurs are the more talented group but ultimately they may not have the experience

[Colin Cowherd]

and in fifteen seconds your pick for the western conference finals game seven the line is three and a half okc favorite at home

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

my heart says the spurs i think okc is going to do it my heart says the spurs but we got to be realistic role players play better at home and again they've got experience in these game sevens and from being in them myself game seven is a different game than all the other games it looks different it feels different it smells different the shirt you got on man thank you you

[Colin Cowherd]

like the shirt okay ryan hollins great guy thanks buddy we'll talk to you soon all right guys all right coming up second hour we are going to talk a little new york knicks and hey have you seen this college football trash talk story it's incredible you'll get it you're gonna love it brought to

[Apple Card Advertiser]

you by apple card hey you could be earning two percent daily cash back on that purchase and that one and even that one that's because apple card users earn two percent daily cash back on every purchase including everyday items they buy online or in store when using their apple card with apple pay not an apple card customer you can apply in the wallet app on iphone subject to credit approval apple card issued by goldman sachs bank usa salt lake city branch terms and more at apple co

[Electric Vehicle Advertiser]

benefits imagine never buying gas again ev's are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life drive daily with confidence everywhere you go most americans drive forty miles a day most ev's are equipped with two hundred to four hundred miles of range they've got fewer parts fewer repairs and fewer headaches with hundreds of new and used ev models available today there's an ev to fit every lifestyle and every budget i love my electric vehicle it's easy no more gas stations the way forward is electric learn more at electric for all dot org wasabi is purpose built to free your business from skyrocketing storage costs and fees from the big guys wasabi is the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams around the world check out wasabi's ai enabled intelligent media storage wasabi air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals wasabi driving innovation in data storage for up to eighty percent less than the other guys try for free at wasabi dot com wasabi hot cloud storage proud partner of the volume podcast network

[Colin Cowherd]

number one hits millions of records sold awards sold out tours you think the jonas brothers are satisfied nope it's podcast time we get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions hey jonas is available now and their first guest is a big one paul rudd you know steve

[Electric Vehicle Advertiser]

carell is a great singer can he

[Colin Cowherd]

tell you not to audition the office

[Public.com Advertiser]

or something i told him who we

[Colin Cowherd]

were f kill me anchorman clearly i

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

was the idiot thank god he didn't

[Colin Cowherd]

listen to me right listen to hey jonas on the iheartradio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts this

[Jason Whitlock]

is an iheart podcast guaranteed human