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- [00:00]
Apple Card Advertiser
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- [00:36]
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- [01:00]
Public Investing Advertiser
for the show comes from Public. If you look at your investing app, what do you see? An Interface stuck in 1997 or something that looks modern but feels more like a casino than a place to build wealth. Public is different. It's the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build your portfolio for the long haul. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto. It's all there. But what really makes Public Public different is the technology behind it. Imagine starting your day with an AI summarized market briefing, getting clear summaries of earnings calls the moment they end, or turning any idea into an investable index just by typing a prompt. This is what investing looks like when the tools finally catch up. Go to public.com and earn a 1% uncapped match when you transfer your portfolio. Public Investing for those who take it seriously Ad paid for by Public Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor Crypto Services by 0/ all investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures@public.com Disclosures Running a commercial
- [02:07]
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- [02:56]
Mark Schlereth
This is the best of the herd with college cowher on fox sports radio.
- [03:05]
Jason McIntyre
Hello and welcome to the herd on a just gorgeous Tuesday out here in sunny Los Angeles. It's me, Jason McIntyre, in for Colin Cowherd. Boy, is he missing out. What a day in sports, my New York Knicks, the team I grew up rooting for. We're going to the NBA Finals, baby. Get excited. I'm joined today by another person who knows the Knicks very well for a long time, Rachel Nichols. Rachel, also excited about the Knicks. We're back.
- [03:36]
John Hollinger
It's great for the NBA. The NBA is better when the Knicks are good. There's just no question about it. I do have a burning question. Everyone who watched yesterday's show wants to know, did you take out the trash last night, J man?
- [03:48]
Jason McIntyre
Well, I had to because my wife was coming back from a girls trip. So I definitely took out the trash.
- [03:53]
Wasabi Advertiser
Yeah.
- [03:53]
Jason McIntyre
Cleaned up. And also cleaned up with the gambling. We gave out the Knicks as a huge, huge favorite. They were two lay in two and a half. That game was over, Rachel. In the first quarter, second quarter, it
- [04:03]
John Hollinger
was over after game one.
- [04:05]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Yes. And let's start there. Let's start with the New York Knicks, the team I grew up rooting for. Folks, I've told this story before. The very first sporting event I went to was the Knicks against the Lakers. It was like, I believe the winter of 1985. Sorry. And, you know, we had a lot of family in New York and somehow I convinced my parents to get me tickets to the Garden. We had terrible seats, but it didn't matter. It was an amazing experience. I still remember to this day I was on my dad's shoulders after the game, leaving. It was an incredible experience. I've waited a long time for a good chance to win the finals. And, folks, the Knicks have it. This is an amazing team. They crushed the Cavaliers last night. The highlights are incredible. It was a dunk a thon. They had more fast break points in the first half than any team had had in the first half in playoff history. Folks, it was an extraordinary run. And honestly, the seeds for this, this amazing, incredible postseason, they were planted in 2024. Do you guys remember what happened that summer? Jalen Brunson had just been named second team all NBA. Right? He was had been with the Mavs. He comes to the Knicks because Mark Cuban made the biggest mistake of his professional career. And Brunson decides, you know what? I can wait a year and sign a massive $269 million deal, or I can sign and take $113 million less. Yes, that's right. Jalen Brunson took a big sacrifice in 2024. He was pilloried in the media. I'm not going to call out names, but a lot of people, oh, how could he take that much less money? He's just dumb. Why would you do that? You guys can look in his pockets. I'm looking at the sacrifice that he made and where he's gotten today. Listen, if you're religious at all, you know, sacrifice is a large theme in the Bible and hell in. In life, right? I'm going to sacrifice this for the greater good. Or in this experience, the team and Jalen Brunson taking $113 million less essentially set the Knicks up so they could trade for OG Anunoby and sign him to a massive deal, and so they could trade for Carl Anthony Towns and absorb his big contract. Do you guys. Have you taken a look at the Knicks salary cap table this season? Jalen Brunson is their third highest paid player. It's comical. Carl Anthony Towns is number one, followed by OG and then Brunson. He sacrificed so this Knicks team could get a loaded roster. And here's Brunson last night talking about the incredible run and the belief that this franchise has in Jalen Brunson. The belief that the organization has in me has been amazing. And it's something I don't take for granted, and it's something that not a lot of people get the opportunity to do.
- [06:50]
John Hollinger
So.
- [06:50]
Jason McIntyre
So I'm very thankful and it's honored to be here in this city and for this organization with my teammates. And, yeah, obviously, these guys have my back. It's a. It's a fun team. I tried to make the comparison this morning to the staff. They didn't totally bite on it. But, like, is there a. Is there a Boston Red Sox vibe here? Is there a Chicago Cubs where kind of everybody around the country's like, that's a great story. I mean, hell, Jalen Brunson was taking barbs from Becky Hammond, a legendary WNBA player. Oh, you can't win a title with a small point guard. Well, the Knicks are going to the finals with a small point guard. Jalen Brunson's been utterly dominant. And I do want to add, folks like the Knicks and what they've built is pretty incredible when you look at this aspect. So historically, in recent years, teams have been bad, then drafted well and then got to the finals. I mean, you look at last year's team, the Thunder, held this year's team as well. I mean, their core. Their core guys have been built through the draft. Yes, obviously, SGA was a trade, but their core guys were built through the draft. Look at the Boston Celtics, Tatum and Brown. By the way, we're doing a Celtics topic later. Boston fans, you might want to earmuff it. It ain't great, but the Celtics score. Peyton, Pritchard, Brown, Tatum. Look at the Denver Nuggets, Jokic, Murray, Ryan Braun, Michael Porter Jr. Would they won the title. I mean, you go back, a lot of these teams were built through the draft. And somebody smart said to me yesterday, look at the Knicks, folks. Their entire starting lineup was acquired in free agency or through trades. No homegrown players in their top eight, right? I looked at the top eight for the spurs and the Thunder. Six on each of those teams were drafted for the Knicks. It's two.
- [08:34]
Mark Schlereth
That's it.
- [08:35]
Jason McIntyre
They have built largely differently. And I think that's because Jalen Brunson took less. And again, you guys can look and be like, ah, stupid. Why would he sacrifice for the team? Well, look where he is now. Jalen Brunson is about to etch himself on the Mount Rushmore of New York sports athletes. If we. If we would agree on that, it's Eli Manning for his Super Bowls. I'm talking the modern era. We're not going to Babe Ruth, 1920 stuff, okay? In the modern era, it's gotta be Derek Jeter, Eli Manning. I think many would agree. Lawrence Taylor and Patrick Ewing, right? The greatest Nick, I believe. And again, we're talking modern era. This is no slight to Willis Reed, Walt Frazier. But if Brunson wins the finals, I think he overtakes Ewing and frankly, he could be incredible and overtake Ewing anyway. And again, I told the story this morning to the staff, like, Patrick Ewing was my guy growing up, went to Georgetown, loved Patrick Ewing, okay? And he was. He was coming to Macy's for, like, an autograph signing. And I begged my parents, please, I gotta go meet Patrick Ewing. I love Ewing. I had the Ewing jersey. Have one in my home in my closet right now. And I go to the autograph signing, and I'm all excited. I'm like, patrick, sign this. He's like. I was like, can I get a picture? He's like, no. And it was one of those you never want to meet your heroes moments. And I love Patrick Ewing still. That. That was a mild setback, but I still like him a lot. I think Brunson is going to overtake him. And here's the Mount Rushmore of modern New York sports athletes. I think Ewing gets replaced by Brunson. And again, it's not a slight to Patrick. He. Some New York fans will argue he underachieved number one pick. They thought everything. He was going to win it all. Couldn't break through and win the title. Came close. John Starks. Don't talk to me about game seven, okay. Don't talk to me about that shooting performance. Ewing had an amazing career hall of Famer, obviously, but I believe Brunson for the sacrifice of taking less, for being an underdog his entire career. I mean, it's just a great sports story. And it's weird because mostly America's tuned out on the Nick New York teams. This team is different. They're built different. And Jalen Brunson is the quintessential star for the best I can recall. I can't remember an athlete who's taken less, other than Tom Brady in, like, the last 25 years. Brady took less sacrifice for the team. They had an amazing dynasty. Brunson's now doing the same. All right, let's pivot to the NFL. And, you know, listen, it's the NFL off season. The stories are. Yeah, people are trying to be interesting about teams. And we covered some interesting lines yesterday around the league. One team we did not cover was the Dallas Cowboys. And I saw this. My guy, Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk. Brian Schottenheimer sells his house to move closer to the facility so he could spend more time at the facility. And listen, you. You guys know J. Mac. At this point, I. I'm gonna. Whoa. What? I don't know Texas real estate. We got a couple guys on staff who do, but this was not a real estate play. This was not so he would avoid traffic. If we're being completely honest, I think Brian Schottenheimer knows what's at stake. He was terrible last year against playoff teams 15 and 1, and they missed the playoffs for the second year in a row. Schottenheimer saw the offense be incredible. They add Pickens, they were outstanding, but they couldn't win the close game. They were okay in close games, and they couldn't beat good teams. So now they retool the defense. They're going from a 4, 3, which they've run for about the last decade and change to a 3, 4. They've got a young defensive coordinator. They stole him from Philly. And it looks like again, we'll see how the depth charts shake out, but they're going to have four or five new defensive starters now. I, I, I, I don't want to go overboard with the Schottenheimer stuff. He was a former jets offensive coordinator. We didn't love him in New York. And you know, I know they did have a decent run, but it was almost in spite of him. They were winning with the defense. With Rex Ryan. We won't go through the history, but if you look at this Cowboys team and you think, oh, well, there's something here. Jay, you're missing out. Look at the win total. Remember last week we did the story. Cowherd was so excited. I had a buddy text me. Boy, he was so geeked about that. Cowboys win total, moving from eight and a half to nine and a half. And a lot of it was after the schedule came out. You know, things shook out nice for Dallas, but I'm just gonna go through the first seven games here, guys. Okay? That game against the Giants are small road favorites. That's a huge game against your rival. John Harbaugh's debut. We don't know if Malik Neighbors is going to be around. That's a massive game. I'm not counting that as a win for sure. Then you've got Washington, another division rival, and Dan Quinn's fighting for his job. Okay, Jaden Daniels comes into the season healthy. I don't know that that's a layup. Then you go to Rio to face the Ravens. You come back, no buy. Okay? There isn't a lot of data on the Cowboys because they haven't played an international game in 12 years. We don't know how they're going to reply. Coming back from a trip to Rio to go to face the Houston Texans. Good luck with that. So now all of a sudden you're staring down the barrel. Oh, damn, we're one in three. We had sky high expectations and you know, Baker Mayfield Thursday, short week. Think about this, guys. Rio to Houston. All the Texans do with one of the best defenses in the league is beat you up. Then you've got to go on a short week at home to play the Bucks. Never a layup with Baker Mayfield. Oh, and but then, by the way, then you've got to go at Green Bay, at Philly. There isn't a tougher seven game schedule to start the season. You know, Maybe Brian Schottenheimer sees the writing on the wall. Holy hell. We. We got Marcus Freeman, the hottest name in coaching right now at Notre Dame, talking about why he stayed. You know, they're coming after Freeman. I'm just telling you guys right now, between the quarterback and the coach, Notre Dame's going to the playoffs. Would not be shocked if they're in the final Four or the final. Haven't bet any college football futures yet, but keep an eye on that team. And I bring that up because at some point, does Jerry break character. Hey, man, Jason Garrett, that was fun. And Mike McCarthy, maybe Jerry says, hey, I'm so old, I need a coach. That's a big deal. As opposed to me being the man who's doing press conferences three times a week and meeting the media. Maybe he does that and goes to Marcus Freeman. Now, we have heard this before. Hey, what happened to Lincoln Riley, right? That was supposed to be a lock. Jerry is. He clearly is afraid to bring in a powerful coach like he did in the 90s. And we know that guy got all the credit. Jerry got jealous. We don't need to rehash it. But I don't. I don't see greatness in Dallas the way everyone else does. To me, this is a good, not great team. We'll see how the defense adjusts. I, again, I did like the move bringing in the young defensive coach from Philly. We saw what he did with their secondary. Now he gets Caleb Downs. So I guess the arrows pointing slightly up for the Cowboys, but I don't think by any stretch they're a playoff team. And when that doesn't happen, then you start wondering, is shot he going to get run out of town. How many more years can Jerry take? No playoffs and be happy with it. So starting the show with New York and Dallas. I know you guys like that, especially given my proclivity to talk Knicks for about two hours today. And yeah, I'm going to bash the Cowboys when I get a chance. Coming up next. Oh, my gosh, we have so many good things to talk about. None of it involving the OKC Thunder injury. News is bad. Line is dropping. Spurs looking very tightly. Yes, that's a word I just made up. That's next year on the Herd.
- [16:00]
Mark Schlereth
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartradio radio app.
- [16:09]
Rob Parker
This is Rob Parker and I'm here with an important public service announcement. Whatever you do, do not listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco Show. Fox Sports Radio asked me to do a promo, but I'm here to do a no Mo as in don't listen to this show no mo the host of two fools from Philly who have the dumbest takes ever in all the sports talk. And you know, if I'm saying that, they must really be bad. I have no idea why Fox Sports Radio picked this up, but I know where to put it down in the trash can. So please don't listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco Show. No way, no how.
- [16:50]
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- [17:37]
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- [18:28]
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- [18:54]
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- [19:59]
Jason McIntyre
back here on the Herd, Mark Slearith coming up in next hour, talk to us about the Cowboys. I wonder if he'll talk about the Broncos.
- [20:07]
Public Investing Advertiser
Huh?
- [20:08]
Jason McIntyre
He loves that team. Pretty good cowherd's team, of course. All right, let's talk about tonight's game. Big one. Big huge seismic game in the NBA. Game five, spurs at Thunder. Series tied at two. I'm sure you saw the news yesterday. OKC officially ruled out AJ Mitchell. I mean, ruling him out more than a day in advance of the game. Like I said, I think he's cooked for the series with the calf. J Dub is interesting. They're, they're toggling between strain and just a variety of words to describe a hamstring injury. They're calling him day to day. I'll be shocked if he plays. It's his fourth hamstring injury of the season. And all of a sudden you see the line opened up at five and a half and now all the money coming in on the spurs is down to four and a half, folks. This is a big, big moment for okc and I will add the NBA as well. Okay, we're two weeks away from the NBA Finals, give or take two weeks. If the Thunder advance to face the Knicks, what do you think the storylines will be in that, in that timeframe? I think Number one, undeniably, is the Knicks. Oh, my gosh, this is amazing. This is great. And number two is flopping. And we. Well, not we. Sorry. Not me. Not we. I was not a big deal with the tanking. I did not think it was a huge deal. I've been saying this a great draft. You guys know I'm a college basketball nerd. This is a great draft to tank for, right? The incentive is there. Tank. It worked out for a lot of teams. A couple kind of got shafted. Sorry, Pacers, but what we missed all season was the flopping. That's the real story in the regular season. Not everybody's really watching the NBA.
- [21:49]
Public Investing Advertiser
You're.
- [21:50]
Jason McIntyre
I mean, you're checking it out, but the ratings aren't 10 million for regular season games. That's just not how it is. There's too many games. So now we get to the playoffs, the audience is larger. Casuals are like, oh, I want to see what this alien Wemby looks like. And you tune in to watch the guy, and all you see is flailing, flopping, OKC Thunder. It's unwatchable. You got longtime NBA fans saying it. You got casuals, the media. Like I said yesterday, every morning after a game with the Thunder, the story is, hey, here's 10 flops that I strung together. Can I get 2 million views and get paid off? This? Like, that's what's happening online the day after Thunder games. I don't recall, by the way, any flopping talk in Cavs, Pistons, Knicks, Sixers, Knicks, Hawks. Nothing in the East. It's really centered around one team, the Thunder. We had Jovan Buha on yesterday. He had some decent ideas that I wonder if the NBA would consider implementing.
- [22:45]
Wasabi Advertiser
I think it's hard to assess it in the moment.
- [22:48]
Mark Schlereth
Right?
- [22:48]
Wasabi Advertiser
Like, I mean, you can. I don't think we want to add more reviews to the games already. There are too many reviews, and the review process takes too long. Maybe you could have retroactive fining or technical fouls for flops. I think that would cut that out. Right? Like if Shea. Imagine Shay getting suspended because he had 16 flopping technicals.
- [23:07]
Jason McIntyre
That would.
- [23:08]
Wasabi Advertiser
I think that would deincentivize him to do that. Right? So I think maybe you could do something like that, but nothing with more reviews.
- [23:15]
Jason McIntyre
Totally agree. I mean, imagine if they kept track of flopping like they keep track of technicals. You know, it only. The technicals really only impacts a few guys. Luca, Draymond, Green, a handful of others. The flopping would really only apply to. It would Be like the SGA rule. You know, the free throw merchant rule. Stop flopping. So now SGA is under the gun here, folks. Without Mitchell and J Dub, this is A fascinating stat. 21 games this season without those two, the Thunder went 11 and 10 treading water. Now, obviously you need to drill down in the data and see like, well, who else missed the games? What was SGA out? You know, who were they playing? But did it back to back. Fine, you could do all that. But the big picture shows 11 and 10 without those two. And you guys saw game 4 non competitive in the second half. No creators outside of SGA. And if you want to get excited, spurs fans, Wimy only played 31 minutes in game four. This could be a. Hey, Wemby, we need you out there for 41 minutes to lock this win up and then we seal the series at home. The the most amazing stat in this series is with Wemby on the court. The spurs are plus 50, 50. With him off the court, they're minus 46. It's tough to like visualize that, but look at the starts that the spurs have had. They come out of the gate like, I mean, unbelievable because Wemby's such a factor on the court. And if we're being honest, the spurs undeniably have the better starting lineup. I mean, OKC has injuries, but it's not even close. Every game, right out of the gate, spurs are on fire. Wemby's dominating. And we had Kevin o' Connor on the show talk yesterday. The pressure's on sga. Can he deliver?
- [25:03]
Unidentified Analyst
It's really just all on Shay, Gilders Alexander to create. We saw the spurs earlier in the series. The first three games, they're trapping SGA more outside, sending two Adam and pick and roll. And it's amazing to see Wemby just change everything about who SGA is because during the regular season and during the whole playoffs, he took 25% of his shots inside of the restricted area. That's down to 12% in this series when Wemby is on the floor. It's baffling to see a player like SGA unable to figure this out, but it really speaks to Wemby's greatness on the defensive end of the floor and the spurs game plan as a whole.
- [25:39]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, great stats there. And SGA in four games, tiny sample size is shooting 39%. This guy who shot 55% during the regular season, that's an incredible drop off. And then you look at his threes. He's 4 of 15 he's not a great shooter. He's just not. Not from three. And folks, final stat, final stat. In the two wins, SGA has just three turnovers. When they're winning, he's not turning the ball over. The two losses, eight. That number goes up. More pressure on him to deliver. Castle's not falling for his nonsense. Listen, this is going to be a big night in the McIntyre household. Okay, game one I was going crazy. My kids want me to livestream the fourth quarter of this game just simply because if you couldn't tell, I get into it. Unfortunately I have a first place men's league basketball game tonight so the time is going to be a little dicey.
- [26:29]
Mark Schlereth
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.
- [26:34]
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- [27:43]
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- [28:35]
Discover Advertiser
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- [28:59]
Jason McIntyre
Let's bring in Fox NFL analyst Mark Schloreth. Let's bring him in. Mark obviously spent time in the trenches, knows football as well as anybody. Great storyteller. How's the summer treating you, my man?
- [29:13]
Mark Schlereth
Summer's good. Summer's been really good. About in the yard, my lawn looks tremendous. So, yeah, I'm kicking everybody in the neighborhood's ass right now. So I feel good, I feel good about where I am this summer.
- [29:25]
Jason McIntyre
So yard work is a dicey topic for me, Mark, because we bought a house in Pennsylvania. You know, I don't want to do the yard. I'm like, Sundays, I don't want to spend my Sunday raking leaves and cutting grass. I got to watch football and Saturdays, I got to play hoops and watch college football. So this was a point of contention among me and the wife. How did you guys sort that one out? Like, you spent a lot of time on your lawn, my man, Monday through
- [29:47]
Mark Schlereth
Friday, that's what So I mean, I've always had, I've always had the, I've always been blessed enough to, you know, to play in the NFL and then to talk about the NFL. So my schedule is not like a 9 to 5 schedule. So I always have time midday to do the things that I want to get done in the yard.
- [30:06]
John Hollinger
Yes.
- [30:06]
Jason McIntyre
Okay. And enough yard talk. Let's get to the trenches. In, in Vegas, I'll just ask straight up. You know, it's early. You haven't seen them both in camp, but you know, cousins, you know what Mendoza could bring. I think the fan base wants Mendoza. Are you like, hey, let's just throw him in there. This experienced guy in college, he's not some one year wonder like Zach Wilson. Let's just toss him in there, let's see what he's got. Or do you go with cousins and Then, you know, segue into Mendoza at some other point.
- [30:35]
Mark Schlereth
Eventually it will be Mendoza. Right. I mean, we all know we're going to get there. It's just a matter of when. This is like Jackson Dart in with the New York Giants. We knew we had the bridge guy in Russell Wilson, but at some point we're going to go to Jackson Dart. And ultimately, you know, it's funny that you even brought this topic up because last week I spent quite a bit of time breaking down Raiders Chargers from week two. Okay. And why you asked I would do this, I don't know. I like to torture myself. But I was really looking at the Chargers defense with Jesse Minter and what he's going to bring to Baltimore. But in doing that, watching this Raiders offense from last year under Chip Kelly, just a disaster, just an abject disaster, Couldn't block anybody. There was not one discernible kind of identity factor. There was not one kind of tenant that, that Chip Kelly hung his hat on in any way, shape, form or fashion. And so you're building this offense from scratch. Now under Kubiak, you will have, you know, you will run wide zone, mid zone, you will have your boot. Keep play action off of that. We see it here in the video. You'll have all those, those staples that you run within your offense, but you're still trying to figure out your offensive line. It was an abject disaster last year. You're trying to figure out what your run game is. That was a disaster last year. And I think the young, I think they've got some great pieces that they've gone out and got, you know, what is it? Linderbaum from Baltimore? I think the kid in Ashton Genti has a chance to be really good. Last year notwithstanding, it was, it was a disaster. So, like, I just think you're going to establish kind of what you are, what you do. Let Mendoza learn under Kirk Cousins. How long will that last? Will it last three games, four games? I don't know. But I think that's a great way to kind of build it to take some of the pressure off.
- [32:48]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Now, I asked about AJ Brown, do if you're the Raiders, do you consider that he could jump start the offense? Their wide receiver rooms pretty weak. Jalen Naylor, like Trey Tucker. Come on. They're not cutting it, but I'm sure you played with some. I don't want to. Maybe calling A.J. brown a knucklehead is a bit strong. But listen, they moved off him in Tennessee. He had beef when he was winning Super Bowls and getting to the super bowl in Philly. Diva. I don't know what you want to call him, but would you, would you consider trading for AJ Brown if you're the, if you're the Raiders?
- [33:19]
Mark Schlereth
Yeah, I think you would always, you'd always be open to it, depending upon kind of what the value of an A.J. brown is. He's still an exceptional player, there's no question about that. And part of, you know, part of the offense is we're not relying on just our wide receivers to go out there and win one on one matchups. Man, we are going to run the ball, we're going to set up our play action stuff. We're going to create chunks based upon the way we call plays. And so sometimes in an offense like that, can you get by without having a premier kind of X, you know, and. And the answer would be yeah, we think we can. But that premier guy that runs that X, when you get those one on one opportunities, man, he makes it a whole lot easier, there's no question. So, you know, this is part of the building process of the Raiders. I think they've done a phenomenal job in the off season. All that doesn't mean anything unless you go out there and you start to perform and you start to win. But I love what they've done this offseason. I love the fact that they're going to produce and have an identity. These are the things that work. Like these are our core value plays and we're going to run these core value plays. And when you think about Gary Kubiak, the father of Clint, was my offensive coordinator.
- [34:43]
Jason McIntyre
Right.
- [34:43]
Mark Schlereth
And so I understand how this process works. We're have our, our basic core plays and it may be six of them and we're going to run the living snot out of those six plays and we're going to give you different window dressing, different looks, different everything. But the bottom line is we're going to be in expert in these and becomes the 10,000 hour rules. I've done it 10,000 times, you've defended it a hundred times. I'm going to whip your ass in these core value plays and that's what we're going to do. And off of those core value plays, that's where those, that's where those big plays, those play action plays happen. And understand this too. Clint was part of Minnesota when Kirk Cousins was run of the show in Minnesota. So he's got such a great feel for Kirk and Kirk is such a good dude, a great mentor and has such A unbelievable understanding of the offense and this offense that he ran in Minnesota, he's going to bring to the Raiders with him. It's going to be invaluable to be in that meeting room to see how to prepare, to see how to get yourself ready, to see how to make the adjustments, to see how to make the kills. That'll be invaluable to Mendoza, who's never done at the NFL level before. So I think all those factors are why you just preach. You preach in. In Raiders nation. You just say, hey, guys, be patient. Like you're going to get Mendoza. But we're going to make sure Mendoza is properly trained up in this offense to have the best chance of success.
- [36:15]
Jason McIntyre
Let's quickly move to the Dallas Cowboys. I think, Mark, when you come on these shows, you have to talk Cowboys. That might be contractual obligation, but I'm sure you saw the headline this week. Brian Schottenheimer moves closer to the Cowboys facility so he could spend more time at practice and with the team. Apparently he wanted to cut down his commute. I'm sure that's code for something. I don't know what, but I'm guessing he's a little nervous heading into the season in Dallas like this. No playoffs the last two years, you've got an. An owner who's a little wacky. In Jerry Jones, you got the picking situation, which is a cauldron. I don't know what to make of the Cowboys this year, but their win total did move up from 8 and a half to 9 and a half after the schedule came out. Any. Is there anything there?
- [36:58]
Mark Schlereth
I'd hammer the over. Wow. I mean, I would hammer the over. I like. Listen, the Dallas Cowboys, to me, you're playing in a division with Philadelphia that we've all said, hey, man, Philadelphia is one of the most talented rosters in football. But their offensive line coach, Jeff Stoutland said, hey, see you later, guys. I don't want to be here anymore. You know, they've got issues with their wide receiver, you know, the quarterback. There's questions about the quarterback. Like, there's a lot of. Of things going on in Philadelphia, the Giants. I expect the Giants to make a leap under John Harbaugh, but how much of a leap? How good are the Giants going to be? So, you know, you look at Washington, you know, after last year, new offensive coordinator David Blau, who's never called plays before, you know, how. What does that look like after Cliff Kingsbury's departure? They invest in the off season on their defense and all Those things. But there's a lot of question marks with this within this division. One thing I will say about the Dallas Cowboys is you can win a lot of games in this league. You know, we all make it about receivers, which is the most overrated position in football. Wide receiver is just ridiculous, ridiculously overrated. Where they have invested is a young offensive line that can hammer people, that can beat up on people. And now they've invested defensively in their front seven. They had D winners from San Francisco. They went out and got Quinn and Williams, who is an absolute beast from the Jets. Rashawn Gary is part of that. I think he was part of that trade with, with Michael Parsons. So, like, I don't know that they have a legit big time edge guy that's a, you know, kind of a war daddy off there on the edge. But, man, they have invested in that front seven. You control both lines of scrimmage in the National Football League. You're going to win a lot of football games. And when I look at the Dallas Cowboys, that's what jumps out, just jumps off the screen to me more than George Pickens and more than, you know, hey, how are we going to CD Lamb George Pickens talent up there? They've got plenty of talent, man. I just look at them and say, I think this is a football team that can dominate both lines of scrimmage. And that to me, le. That to me says, hey, man, Dallas Cowboys are front runners in my mind to win their division.
- [39:05]
Jason McIntyre
Interesting. So I thought I heard you say that wide receiver is an overrated position. I'm just curious, how would you rank like the top five positions most important to building a contender in the NFL?
- [39:18]
Mark Schlereth
Obviously you got to have. You got to have the quarterback.
- [39:21]
Jason McIntyre
So let me ask, is Daca an A, B, a C? What are we giving him on a grade like
- [39:27]
Mark Schlereth
I. You like. I don't think Dak is, you know, I don't think he's Joe Burrow or Matthew Stafford or, you know, or one of the elite of the elite guys. The, the Patrick Mahomes, the, you know, one of those guys. But he's in that next tier, whatever that next tier is. And I really, I think that Dak has been an undervalued, underappreciated quarterback in his time in the National Football League. And, and he's come out, you know, right from his rookie year and had unbelievable success.
- [39:59]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah.
- [40:00]
Mark Schlereth
Early in his career. And so I just think he's. There's a calming effect there. I just think he's Got that. He's just got that quality about him, that old soul quality about him, that pocket nature to him. I think Dak is, is in that, in that the elites, right? And then the next tier.
- [40:20]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, so they got a tier two quarterback. Quarterback's the most important. Then the second most important position would be.
- [40:28]
Mark Schlereth
I just think how you dominate a line of scrimmage on offense. Like, like probably the next.
- [40:33]
John Hollinger
Probably.
- [40:34]
Mark Schlereth
If you were looking at kind of just positionally, do you have a war daddy on the defensive side of the ball? And what I mean by war daddy is when you break the huddle as an offense, right? Ready, break. Now you're going, okay, where is that dude and what's our plan? Was it like Aaron Donald, you break the, you break the line of scrimmage and Aaron Donald was on the opposite team, all 11 eyes. All or all 11 sets of eyes go to Aaron Donald, go, how are we going to block that sob? Like, how are we going to contend with that guy? And, you know, and so you got to have one of those guys. What do they say? An elite level cornerback can shut down one receiver. An elite level pass rusher can shut down all the receivers. And so you got to look at that edge presence or that, that guy, that's just an absolute nightmare. Like, he's unblockable. You got to look at those guys. Then I think you've got to have, you got to have a great, and I mean great offensive line that can run the football in. Running the football is not, you know, popping a draw. Jason on third down and seven and getting 27 yards in the end of the game. You know, you average 1.6 yards per carry on 18 carries, but you had a 40 yard run and a 37 yard run and everybody goes, look, we run the ball. Well, no, you don't. It's like Philadelphia back in the Chip Kelly days. You drive me crazy. Led the league in rushing every year and couldn't run the ball 2 inches when it mattered. Like, running the ball to me is, I get in the red zone, you know I'm going to run it. I know I'm going to run it. We're still going to get four yards and there's nothing you can do about it.
- [42:12]
John Hollinger
Right?
- [42:13]
Mark Schlereth
That's what running the ball is. Third down and two. You know, we're going to run it. We know we're going to run it and we're going to be able to convert and get a first time. That's what running the ball is, not tricking people into a. We Got a jet sweep for 47 yards. Look how good we are running the ball. No, you're not. You're not.
- [42:30]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, I guess my point was, like, so it sounds like nobody thinks Schottenheimer's an elite coach. They got a tier B quarterback. They don't have a war daddy off the edge. Their offensive line, I don't think would be considered great. Not, not top five. They're kind of rebuilding it. So that's, that's the only reason I'm not buying, like, they're not great anywhere. They had Micah Parsons as the war daddy, and they didn't. You know, they obviously that, that fell apart, but. So I don't know what I'm hanging my hat on if I'm Dallas, like the Eagles, we know, hell, they got a Super Bowl MVP at quarterback. That secondary is nasty. The front seven is incredible. Elite running back in Saquon, the coach, you know, we'll see the offensive line, elite unit. Top, top 10 unit. So that's the only reason I still like the Eagles.
- [43:13]
Mark Schlereth
Right. No, I, I, I get that. And, and that's. All of that is incredibly fair and you're 100% right on all that stuff. But doesn't it feel just like there's a turd? The punch bowl in Philadelphia.
- [43:27]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, we, I don't know. What are you. You got sources. You talk to all these teams, coaches. What the hell is the deal with Jalen? Hurts. Why is he getting beat up? It's a make or break year for Hertz. What?
- [43:37]
Mark Schlereth
It just, it feels to me, for whatever reason, and I don't. And again, this is just a feel. I don't have any inside information on this. It just that something's off and, you know, and I can't, I can't tell you. I can't tell you what it is. It's all. I will tell you this, man. And like, that position has got to be a position where when everything goes exceptionally well. Jason, quarterback position, you've got to deflect 100% of the praise to your teammates. Got to. It's the, it's the position. It's part and parcel of playing quarterback. And when things go wrong, you've got to accept 100% of the blame. You've got to stand up even. Like, you can't throw four interceptions and go, hey, man, my receiver broke off the wrong route. My offensive line didn't protect me. You got to stand up at the podium and go, I got to be better. That's on me.
- [44:41]
Jason McIntyre
Is he not doing that I don't know.
- [44:44]
Mark Schlereth
I have no idea. Inside the light. He may not do it on the podium. I don't have any idea. But if, if that becomes a perception in a locker room with your quarterback, then your guys are just not really going to rally around that guy.
- [44:58]
Jason McIntyre
It is. Yeah. It's weird because you go to the Super bowl two times in four years, and A.J. brown's, like, not happy because he's not getting enough targets. It's just, I'm sure you've seen the reports, and I don't know how much there is. Hey, A.J. brown had his wedding, and Jalen Hurts wasn't there. You know, like, I don't know what happened. If John Elway didn't invite you to his wedding, would you have been torn apart? Like, I don't know. The dynamic is something I can't.
- [45:20]
Mark Schlereth
I think you have to understand the dynamic behind that. Like, when I sat and talked to those, When I sat and talked, when they were, when they first got together in Philadelphia after the trade and I was doing an Eagles game, that they couldn't have been more excited. They went on a recruiting trip together. Right.
- [45:35]
Jason McIntyre
That.
- [45:36]
Mark Schlereth
This is how I remember it. And I'm paraphrasing, I hope I don't get this wrong, but it started off like, on a recruiting trip to college together. They chose different schools, but from that point forward, they were, like, became best buddies and were FaceTime every day. Like, you go from that kind of relationship to all of a sudden, we don't like each other. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. It just feels weird to me. And again, I, I, I mean, I'm not, I'm not trying to break news. I'm not a newsbreaker. I like to watch film, you know, and I like talking about football, but it just, it just feels like, like I said, it feels like there's a turd. The punch bowl.
- [46:16]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Let me. We could wrap up with this. In your experience in Denver, did you ever have one of those where it was like, hey, everything's good, but people were unhappy?
- [46:29]
Mark Schlereth
You know, I think there's, I think there's times that you go through, in, in any situation. Not necessarily, not necessarily my time in Denver, but there are, you know, I always talk about building the culture of a locker room. And, you know, there are those organizations, any organization that you, that you're part of, where you slap a mission statement up on the wall and said, that's our mission statement. That's what we're all about. Sacrifice this that and the other. And then nobody pays attention to it. And it becomes just something that hangs on the wall.
- [47:02]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah.
- [47:03]
Mark Schlereth
And culture is a verb. It's alive. It has to be worked on every day. And if you're not working on it, culture follows the path of least resistance. What's easy. And if one guy gets away with it, then another guy gets away with it and another guy gets away with it. And all of a sudden, sudden your culture is just off. We talk about it all the time. Hey, when new coaches get hired, man, the first thing we got to do is change the culture. Like, we talk about those things all the time. But ultimately, man, like I said, it's an action word. It's actionable. You have to work on it. It has to be intentional. You have to believe in it. You have to hold each other accountable. It has to be talked about every single day. And if it's not, it, it will find the easiest path. And when it finds the easiest path, a new standard is set. And when you set that new standard, you know what that new standard is? Garbage. It's just good enough to get you beat. And that's where the Philadelphia Eagles are right now.
- [48:05]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Mark SL three time super bowl champ, legend in the building, in any building he's been in. Great stuff. Keep up that great yard work, Mark. I love it on the ig. I see it all the time.
- [48:17]
Mark Schlereth
I'll send you a picture, Jason. And it's just going to be remarkable.
- [48:21]
Jason McIntyre
All right, have a good one.
- [48:23]
Mark Schlereth
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app back here on the Herd.
- [48:35]
Jason McIntyre
Let's welcome in a great NBA voice, John Hollinger, former front office guy in Memphis with the Grizzlies. Senior writer at the Athletic. Jon. How are you, man? I like that jersey in the background. What is that?
- [48:51]
John Hollinger
Thanks. That's the. That's the Hawks alternate jersey from this year.
- [48:54]
Jason McIntyre
Ah, well, spicy. All right, let's get started with. Let's start with the Knicks, actually. Unbelievable story. One of the great ones, really, that we've seen in sports this year. Knicks last year lose to the Pacers in the conference finals. Disappointment. They run it back with a different coach. Breakthrough. 11 straight wins. Incredible. They're in the finals for the first time this century. Your thoughts?
- [49:17]
John Hollinger
Not just 11 straight wins, but the most dominant 11 game stretch in NBA history. Not just playoff history, history in terms of the scoring margin over those 11 games. And it's also the best 10 game stretch, they actually had two different stretches that were the best 10 game stretch like 1 and 2 in this 11 game streak. So it's been, it's been a dominant, dominant stretch and they were down to one here in Atlanta. And you know, there's talk of changing the starting lineup and Mike Brown obviously gets a lot of credit for that non move. And then once they shifted things offensively to put the ball in Karl Anthony Towns his hands more and kind of do more off ball cutting away from him. So it wasn't just the Jalen Brunson pound a thon from the, from the Thibodeau days. I think that just offensively it just made them so hard to guard. They just beat you in so many ways now there's, there's nowhere to hide a bad defender against them and it just took off. Now it's helped. I mean they are playing out of their minds in other ways too, like with the shooting and everything. But I mean right now, yeah, they are absolutely, absolutely a juggernaut. And you can discount somewhat like the opponents they played maybe aren't as strong as those they would have faced in the West. But when you have this long a stretch that's this dominant against what are still very clearly like playoff quality teams, I mean that is a statement.
- [50:41]
Bethenny Frankel
Yeah.
- [50:41]
Jason McIntyre
Now normally I wouldn't do an autopsy on the Cavs, but this was a bad beatdown. You had some curious quotes from the coach to the players. Obviously James Harden was atrocious in all the elimination games this season. I'm just curious, do you foresee a big change in Cleveland? Maybe they just swap out the coach. Maybe they do one player out. Or do you see, hey, you know, we're just going to trade Donovan Mitchell and start over.
- [51:03]
John Hollinger
Their hands are very tied financially because they're so locked in on so many big contracts right now. When you look at paying Mitchell and Mobley and Harden, who I think they're going to bring back, and Jared Allen and so there's just not a lot of wiggle room there to do other things. The one thing you that people are going to bring up is LeBron James, I'm sure. And even to do that, unless LeBron was going to come for the minimum, becomes very tricky for them to pull off. To cut enough salary to get below the first apron to do a sign and trade so that you can pay LeBron somewhere even remotely close to his market value, it becomes very tricky. They have to send out contracts just to do that. I mean, is there a scenario where they Send out like Allen and Strus and trade Schroeder somewhere else and then take in LeBron and he makes like 25 or 30 or something. Yeah, maybe you could talk yourself into that. But it's just the cap dynamics are so hard for them that running it back is almost their only choice. Like that's why, that's why they did Garland for Harden in the first place. It was the only thing they could do.
- [52:08]
Jason McIntyre
So I wonder, we just saw the Knicks swap out Thibodeau for Mike Brown. Now, he wasn't their first choice. I think they were chasing memory serves, Jason Kidd, Michael Malone, I'm not exactly sure all the guys, but Mike Brown wasn't their first choice. Does Cleveland consider that?
- [52:24]
John Hollinger
I think it's going to be something that's a little bit on the table. Yes. Just based on the history, you know, you hear, you hear word that, that Kenny was really the owner's call, not the GMs. And could they go, could they go in a different direction now? I think they have to at least consider it. I mean, Kenny Atkinson overall has done a good job there. Right. He won 64 games with them a year ago even though they lost. Even though they lost in, in five. They got to the conference finals this year, which, which they hadn't been with this group before. But it's the only thing. There are two issues you run into. It's a similar thing in New York last year where it's like this. The only thing you can change because you're so locked in with the roster in the cap rules at this point. And then the game one meltdown I think was a, was a pretty bad one for, for him. And so what kind of taste that leaves in everyone's mouth?
- [53:23]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Up 22 to choke that away. Brutal. All right, let's go to tonight's game. Spurs, Thunder, A.J. mitchell out. They're saying J Dub is a game time decision, but I don't, I haven't heard anybody credible say that he's got a chance to play his fourth hamstring injury this season. I'm just. It feels like the spurs are back in control. The line is dropping. Your thoughts on tonight's game?
- [53:45]
John Hollinger
I think it's a true toss up. I think, you know, it looked after game three that OKC had this totally under control, looked after game four like San Antonio did. I think that's just the ebb and flow of a, of a playoff series between relatively evenly matched teams. And I think that's what we have here. So I'm really excited to see what happens. I think Oklahoma City has to figure out how to adjust to the way San Antonio defended Shea last game where they weren't bringing the hard devils, that they were coming kind of later. And as he was more getting into his actual shot area. And there's going to be three pointers open for Oklahoma City somewhere to take advantage of that. And they just have to figure out how to get the right lineups out there and the right people in the right spots to really maximize that.
- [54:30]
Jason McIntyre
I gotta ask, John. I did not think the tanking was a huge issue this season. I know people were upset, obviously, but you worked in a front office. You know the best path to turning things around is to tank and get good picks and there's a great draft. But we're seeing flopping now being a way bigger issue than tanking. Every night after these games, the biggest stories are wembing Yama, followed by did you see the 10 flops that SGA and company had? And they're stringing these videos together. They're getting 5, 10 million views. The league cannot be happy with this. This flopping issue. Do you think it's bigger than tanking?
- [55:04]
John Hollinger
No, I totally disagree with you. First of all, tanking was horrendous this year.
- [55:08]
Jason McIntyre
It was bad.
- [55:09]
John Hollinger
There are eight to eight different teams that were losing on purpose every single night for the last two months of the season. That takes away half your schedule and makes it unwatchable. As far as the flopping issue, SGA has been a magnet, it seems like, for this, but this, this isn't. I, I don't think he's even the worst guy in the league by far. I don't think he's. He's even the worst guy in his own team. Like, I think Lou Dort and Jalen Williams in their own way on defense are a lot worse. But the, the free throws aren't like a huge portion of his offense. He's not, he's not a guy who's like snapping his head back before anyone even hits him, like James Harden did, for instance.
- [55:48]
Jason McIntyre
He.
- [55:49]
John Hollinger
I mean, yes, he does. The one thing he does do that I think you're showing in some of these clips. He does tend to crumble as he goes up for a jumper because I count him doing that six different times in game two especially, was the most egregious one, I think. But on the other hand, like, he. A lot of the other stuff he does, like, he's just getting fouled. He's getting fouled because he's good, you know, and he's gets fouled on these jumpers a lot because people have to crowd him so much or they contest it so hard because he's going to make it otherwise. So he just. It's kind of the same way that James Harden drew a lot of fouls in his prime on three point shots just because people had to be inside his jersey to contest it. And so that they ended up crowding his landing space and getting fouls that way. So I think it's a, it's a lot of to do about a pretty small thing, actually.
- [56:38]
Jason McIntyre
Interesting. Okay. We had a writer on yesterday that speculated, hey, the same way they have technical fouls and you've got to serve a one game suspension. Maybe they look at, hey, you're flopping too much and if you flop 15 times, you got to have a one game suspension. I mean, I don't, I'm surprised you don't think it's that huge of a deal, but I don't know. You've been around the league very long.
- [56:57]
John Hollinger
They, they had. I mean, they have a rule in place for to do technical foul for an egregious flop, which they never call. They have a rule in place to do. To do fines for kind of egregious flops, which these don't really qualify as because the rule for being fined for flopping is what they call stem criteria. It's secondary. So like after the first kind of action, if you continue theatrical and I'm trying to remember what the E and the M are, but basically it's like it's when you do the whole to do and flail your arms and like end up three rows in the crowd, which isn't really what Shea or most of these guys are doing.
- [57:35]
Jason McIntyre
Interesting. All right, what about Chet Holmgren? He's taken some heat here for having a brutal series. He was excellent against the Lakers. It's one thing to go up against Jackson Hayes and deandre Ayton and now Wembanyama's keeping him out of the paint. Some of the number I think he's shooting 46% from the field. This is a guy who was just a dunking machine most of the season. Third team, all NBA. Can he turn it around in the series?
- [57:57]
John Hollinger
Yeah, I think there's two interesting things going on with Chet. One, I think they're reluctant to play him at five against against this team. And so he's been out on the perimeter more because if you look, they'll start Hartenstein and they'll bring In Jalen Williams with a. Yeah. And so Chad is usually the four in those alignments. And the other thing is that not only has he not been able to get to the rim as much because of Wemby's presence, he takes so long to load up his three point shot that he's been run off the line pretty easily by these San Antonio defenders. And I think that's the other area that that's really hurt them is that they use him as a floor spacer too. And he just is getting into. His motion is slow enough that he hasn't really been threatening enough to open the floor for them.
- [58:42]
Jason McIntyre
Interesting. Why do you think he's reluctant to play the five? Is this like an Anthony Davis thing? I don't want to bang with the big boys. I just want to, you know, take my jokes.
- [58:49]
John Hollinger
It's not, it's not his reluctance, it's the coaching staff. I mean, they, they look at him and his size and weight and everything and, and I don't. I don't think they like that.
- [58:58]
Jason McIntyre
Interesting. Do you have a pick for tonight or you not want to get involved in that? That's fine. I totally understand.
- [59:03]
John Hollinger
I would. I mean, Oklahoma City's at home. I would probably make them a slight favorite. I'm a little worried about them on offensively. Without it, I presume Jalen Williams will end up not playing. And I think like finding secondary shot creators going to be an issue for them. They turned to Aaron Wiggins the other night to try to get some of that. He wasn't very good. Caruso, as good as he's been, has really been more making. Making plays off somebody else, making a play off the catch. I do think they need to give Hartenstein a little more run. He made four floaters over Victor in the. In the first quarter and then we kind of didn't see see him again the other night.
- [59:39]
Jason McIntyre
Interesting. All right, let's go with a Jalen Brown real quick in Boston. He keeps going on twitch and complaining about stuff. Very strange. The media doesn't like me. The fans don't like me. This is my favorite season in Boston, right after you lose in the first round. Now I know Boston wouldn't want to break up him and Tatum because they just won a championship a few years ago. They had another great season, but something seems off here. Do you think there's any world where Brown is not on the Celtics after this season?
- [60:08]
John Hollinger
I think it's possible. Just when you look at his contract and the constraints of the second apron and that was Basically what forced Boston to do all the things they did this past offseason, which hurt them enough. That that's, that's in a roundabout way, like, that's how they ended up losing to Philly. Right. And so when you look at the numbers on his contract and his age, he will never have more value in a trade situation. So there's a scenario where, I mean, Boston was willing to sell high on Marcus Smart, for instance. They've been able. They've been willing to do that in other situations. So I would not rule that one out. I will say. I mean, Jalen Brown's always sort of been like this. Like, this is not new information. Anyone from Boston? I don't think so. I don't think that really plays into it as much as. But just the overall cap scenario that they're in and where he is in his career. Yeah, I could definitely see them trying to sell high on him.
- [61:06]
Jason McIntyre
And last one, the Giannis race, continually evolving. I still think there's a world where if the Thunder lose this series, they get very involved with Giannis just because they've got so many picks in the future and they don't have roster spots. Do you think there's a. I mean, does Cleveland say, hey, Mobley, for Giannis and whatever. Do the Lakers. We had someone come on yesterday talk about the Lakers having a shot. I know there's a world where he stays with the Bucks. I don't know. Clippers, do they get involved? What do you got, John?
- [61:34]
John Hollinger
I think Miami is still the most likely destination. They have the best combination of assets and desperation to do that. I don't, I don't see Oklahoma City make making a move for Giannis. I just don't see them kind of short circuiting what they have. And everything there is built around Shea right now, and they're not going to turn and build it around Giannis. And I think that that would actually be a hard adjustment for Giannis that way. Whereas Miami, sort of. He'd be able to come in. It would be him and Bam. And they'd be a pretty good fit together. And it just seems to make more sense to me. So if I had to put. If I had to put a dollar on one team, I would. I would say Miami.
- [62:12]
Jason McIntyre
Interesting. Do you think that's where he would sign long term there, given it's him and Bam. And then everything else is out the door. Are they. Is that even much of an upgrade from Milwaukee?
- [62:23]
John Hollinger
I do think it's an upgrade from Milwaukee situation, yes. But to get to get that team to the upper reaches of the East. Like, can they be in the top six? Absolutely. Can they beat Boston or New York in a playoff series with just Giannis and Bam?
- [62:38]
Jason McIntyre
No.
- [62:39]
John Hollinger
So there'd still be a lot of work to do on the back end of the roster in Miami.
- [62:42]
Jason McIntyre
All right. John Hollinger, the athletic, great stuff. Former NFL front office guy. All right. Thank John. Enjoy the summer.
- [62:48]
John Hollinger
All right. Thank you.
- [62:49]
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- [64:28]
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Jason McIntyre
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.