3 & Out - Massive Mailbag Part 2

Summary

---

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – 3 & Out: Massive Mailbag Part 2

Date: June 18, 2026
Host: John Middlecoff (on Colin Cowherd’s feed)
Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd / 3 & Out
Theme: Listener Mailbag – NFL coaching drama, offseason narratives, fan Q&A, and personal asides

---

Episode Overview

This episode is the second installment of a massive listener mailbag hosted by John Middlecoff, featuring candid takes on NFL hot topics, coaching rumors, player evaluations, life advice, and everything in between. Middlecoff brings his uniquely irreverent, insightful, and conversational style to a range of listener questions, from the fate of the Buffalo Bills’ coaching staff to travel tips with young kids. The episode skillfully blends detailed football analysis, NFL insider knowledge, and relatable personal anecdotes.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Coaching Rumors and Hot Seats

[03:58 – 06:16]

• Buffalo Bills & Sean McDermott’s Future
  • Who’s on the NFL coaching hot seat? Todd Bowles (Buccaneers) and Zach Taylor (Bengals) are mentioned as “definitely on the hot seat” (04:28).
  • Middlecoff assesses Sean McDermott’s prospects if he’s let go by Buffalo.
  • Comparison with Mike Tomlin, noting their similar coaching tenures and track records.
    • “I don’t know if there’s that much difference in 2027 with Sean McDermott and Mike Tomlin... Sean’s been beating them.” (05:23)
  • Strong conviction that both Tomlin & McDermott would have “multiple offers next year.”
    • “Mike Tomlin is going to have multiple offers next year and Sean will definitely have one.” (06:04)

2. NFL Draft Busts and Fast Flops

[06:16 – 07:04]

• Why Isn’t Josh Rosen a Bigger Bust?
  • Rosen's career “ended immediately”; he was out of Arizona in under a year, minimizing fan focus.
  • “Started as a rookie, 10th overall pick, next year traded for Kyler, and it’s just over. So it’s like it never really happened.” (06:16)
  • “He didn’t even make it a calendar year.” (06:47)

3. Random Offseason Life: Wasp Attacks and Home Life

[07:04 – 08:05]

• Listeners share life hacks about wasp nest removal, segueing into Middlecoff’s backyard saga.
• “It does feel like it’s neutralized their attack a little bit… we might have just killed their operation.” (07:33)

4. The Shanahan Coaching Tree – A Clock Management Mystery

[08:05 – 10:49]

• Why do coaches from the Shanahan tree struggle with clock management?
  • Offensive coaches get “consumed with their plays,” losing situational awareness mid-game. (09:01)
  • “It’s much easier for us eating M&M's on the couch… than for these guys dealing with everything on the field.” (09:44)
  • Special teams and situational football aren't emphasized by Kyle Shanahan or descendants, contributing to breakdowns.

5. Golf Talk: Nelly Korda and LPGA vs. PGA Power

[10:52 – 11:52]

• Nelly Korda as an all-time great women’s golfer.
• “She’s good… I’d be the longest person on LPGA tour. I’d be hitting it past everybody.” (11:32)

6. Sports Travel: What’s Worth Watching in the U.S. (For an Aussie)?

[11:52 – 12:53]

• Coming in the fall? “It’s football season, that’s all I do.” (12:46)
• Recommendation: SEC college football, Raiders in Vegas, play golf on Fridays.

7. NFL Schemes vs. Physicality: Could 8th Graders With NFL Coaching Beat High Schoolers?

[12:58 – 14:24]

• Middlecoff dismisses the idea: “There is no way an 8th grade team, they could have Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi and Parcells against high school kids” (13:25)
• The physical mismatch is too vast.

8. Ravens, Wide Receivers, & Team Identity

[14:24 – 15:50]

• Baltimore’s tendency to invest in guards & defensive players, not elite WRs, frustrates fans.
• “It just hasn’t been your MO as an organization.” (15:08)
• Zay Flowers is “a good pick, a good player, but hell, maybe you trade for Justin Jefferson.”

9. Broncos QB Situation & Bo Nix’s Ceiling

[15:50 – 17:36]

• High/low takes on Bo Nix: Top 15 ceiling, needs to “take a big step.”
• “Josh Allen compared to Bo Nix is like the size of the Grand Canyon.” (16:34)
• Need for consistency and transition to an intense coach emphasized for Nix’s second year.

10. NFL Turnarounds: The Saints as 2026 Surprise Team?

[18:15 – 19:45]

• Middlecoff is bullish: “I’m a buyer… peeking at their schedule, I’m going to take them to win the division.” (19:24 – 19:45)
• Discusses tough opening schedule; 10 wins is possible if they grab key road upsets.

11. College Football/NFL “Amateur League” Merger – A Non-Starter

[19:45 – 21:26]

• NFL won’t take financial or labor risks with a development league.
• “Let them deal with that because they’re not going away… The NFL is also making too much money to risk doing something like that.” (20:58, 21:08)
• “It’s a win-win for everyone involved.” (21:26)

12. Coordinators and Interdivision Moves – Friendship Vs. Business

[21:30 – 23:42]

• It’s business—coaches become numb to colleagues leaving for competitors.
• “If your relationship is strong enough… completely unfazed.” (22:50)
• “Think how often it happens in the NFL. I mean it happens all the time.” (23:03)
• Only “egos” or broken verbal agreements cause real friction.

13. Offensive Coordinators Under Play-Calling HCs

[31:58 – 33:53]

• If the head coach calls plays, the OC “is like a glorified position coach,” less credit and lower salary. (32:39)
• This can be a valuable learning post, but power/compensation lies with the head coach.

14. “Dad Diaries” and Personal Asides

[33:53 – 42:42]

• Listeners praise the parenting segments; John shares vacation anxiety:
  • “Traveling with children is pretty stressful. She’s been getting ready for like two days…” (40:09)
  • “I have drank dramatically less since we’ve had him…” (41:19)
• Compares parenting wins/losses to NFL teams: “Jack’s been like a solid Chargers week… We’re looking to become like the Bills or Rams.” (42:05, 42:34)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Coaching Turnover:
  “Mike Tomlin is going to have multiple offers next year and Sean [McDermott] will definitely have one.” (06:04)

• On QB Draft Busts:
  “Started as a rookie, 10th overall pick, next year traded for Kyler, and it’s just over. So it’s like it never really happened.” (06:16)

• On Clock Management:
  “It’s much easier for us eating M&M's on our couch… This guy is in the freezing cold or the super hot, trying to think about seven different things… So I defend coaches a little bit.” (09:44)

• On LPGA vs. PGA:
  “I’d be the longest person on the LPGA tour. Like, I’d be hitting it past everybody… It’s a completely different game.” (11:32)

• On the Niners' Health:
  “If they stay completely healthy… they’re a lock playoff team. Now if other teams are healthy… some matchups are still tough. But they can handle everyone else.” (34:24)

• On Mahomes/Chiefs Dynasty:
  “That run you guys had, that’s as good as it gets. We could go 20 more years and not see a team win three in five years.” (39:27)

• On Parenting:
  “Traveling with children is pretty stressful… She’s been getting ready for like two days, just laying out all the clothes.” (40:09) “I have drank dramatically less since we’ve had him…” (41:19) “Jack’s been like a solid… Chargers. Just not the prettiest. But it’s worked. We’ve won some games. We’re just moving in the right direction.” (42:23)

---

Timestamps for Critical Segments

• [03:58] Bills/McDermott Coaching Futures
• [06:16] Josh Rosen as a Draft Bust
• [08:05] Shanahan Tree and Clock Management
• [10:52] Nelly Korda & LPGA vs. PGA Power
• [11:52] U.S. Sports Travel Recommendations
• [12:58] Can NFL Coaching Make 8th Graders Beat Varsity?
• [14:24] Ravens’ Wide Receiver Saga
• [15:50] Bo Nix and Broncos QB Breakdown
• [18:15] Saints Surprise Season Outlook
• [19:45] NFL and College Football Partnership? No Chance.
• [21:30] Assistant Coaches: Division Rival Drama
• [31:58] Play-Calling HCs and OC Roles
• [33:53 - 42:42] Parenting, Vacations, and Life as a New Dad

---

Tone and Language

Middlecoff’s style is straightforward, irreverent, and relatable. He mixes sharp insider football analysis (“size of the Grand Canyon” gap between QBs) with self-deprecating humor about parenting and clearly enjoys riffing on oddball listener hypotheticals. The show feels like a conversation with a sports-loving friend, mixing technical breakdowns and life asides with equal enthusiasm.

---

Conclusion

This mailbag-driven episode of “3 & Out” balances wry football insight, candid evaluations of NFL coaches and players, and personal anecdotes about parenting and travel. The detailed answers will resonate with both diehard NFL fans and casual listeners, especially those who enjoy behind-the-curtain perspectives and the rhythm of football life off the field.

---

Transcript

[John Middlecoff]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Podcast Announcer]

Guaranteed Human.

[Boost Mobile Advertiser]

You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent, streaming, even extra salsa at your favorite burrito spot. But with Boost Mobile, you don't have to play the Will this go up soon Game. Boost Mobile offers an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile after 30gb, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay 25 doll a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Colin Coward]

Hi, it's Colin Coward from the Colin Coward Podcast. All right. You know what deserves more attention? The assists. Everybody talks about the goal. A big moment that gets replayed on the highlight reels. But too often we overlook all the contributions and collabs that happen along the way. That's true in soccer and honestly true in life. Halion is shining a light on the assists. An official partner of U.S. soccer, they got a whole lineup of brands ready to deliver for you. So here they are. Sensodyne Dentist Recommended Defense of your sensitive teeth. Centrum Fueling your day with science backed nutrients. Advil, of course. Powerful Inflammation Fighting pain relief. Voltaren Arthritis Gel Helps penetrate deep, keeps the joints moving and Tums ready to counterattack with fast heartburn relief. These are brands that are ready to deliver your essential wellness assists. Because every goal starts with an assistant. Learn how Halion can assist your game day [e-mail] Colin this is Jeff T

[Dell Advertiser]

from the Club 520 podcast. This is a performance you do not want to miss. The Dell xps Powered by Intel Core Ultra. It's got the sauce. We're talking speed, style, stamina, bam. And a long lasting battery life unheard of in this league. Look at the hustle. Is there anything a laptop can't do? The Dell XPS Built for those who have the right moves.

[Ben]

Find [e-mail] XPS built for you

[Dell Advertiser]

this

[Daniel Cormier]

is Daniel Cormier from the Daniel Cormier Show. This podcast is sponsored by Total Wireless, the official wireless partner of ufc. Power doesn't wait in the octagon or outside of it. You either make the move or you miss the moment. That's why you need a network that's just as powerful as you are. With Total Wireless, you get unlimited 5G data keeping you in the action from the walkouts to the knockouts. Now that's a total power move. Make your total power move today. Visit totalwireless.com or stop by your neighborhood Total Wireless Store. Additional terms apply. See totalwireless.com for details.

[Podcast Announcer]

The volume.

[John Middlecoff]

What is going on my people?

[Ben]

How are we doing? This is well, it's me, John Middlecoff

[John Middlecoff]

3 out podcast part two of the mailbag so part two of the mailbag at John Middlecoff is the Instagram at John Middlekopf is the instagram firing those DMs questions answered here on the show. This will be the last show of the week.

[Ben]

So enjoy a nice long weekend, enjoy some soccer, Go USA Friday, enjoy the US Open and do whatever you're going

[John Middlecoff]

to do this weekend. Have a good time. Hopefully things are going well in your

[Ben]

life and we'll be back with a couple shows next week and then probably have a very lighter schedule for a couple weeks with the with the holiday weekend and just things kind of slowing down early July. But this will be part two of

[John Middlecoff]

the Mailbag and we've done we did a part one of the Mailbag yesterday. We did a golf podcast the day before.

[Ben]

We did a big podcast the day before. So we had a lot of content this week.

[John Middlecoff]

Appreciate everyone listening.

[Ben]

Guys are cranking even in the off season so I tip my hat to you. And yeah, you guys know the drill.

[John Middlecoff]

If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out. If you guys want to watch the show, it's on Netflix.

[Ben]

We got we put separate content on

[John Middlecoff]

the YouTube channel as well. Anything that doesn't make the podcast. So let's just, let's just dive into the show. Love the pod. Two questions for you related to the Buffalo Bills. How do you think they'll do this season after replacing Sean? Also what team would you see him joining or being a good fit for? Let's start with the latter question. Like let's look some big picture teams

[Ben]

that coach is going to be in a little trouble.

[John Middlecoff]

I would say Todd Bowles is definitely

[Ben]

feels like he's on the hot seat. I would say Zach Taylor is definitely on the hot seat.

[John Middlecoff]

Sean has proven that he can handle a big time quarterback and you know the defense walls let him down statistically

[Ben]

they were actually pretty good last year against the pass and you know he

[John Middlecoff]

would be going to some of these

[Ben]

teams that have established personnel people we could argue with the Bengals but but Tampa those are just two that come to mind.

[John Middlecoff]

You would have to go some connections people around the league that have worked either in Buffalo in Kansas City or

[Ben]

I guess he didn't work in Kansas City but with the Eagles when he

[John Middlecoff]

was there for a long, long time.

[Ben]

And then he obviously worked with Carolina, but, you know, Bean went with him.

[John Middlecoff]

I think, you know, if you just tell me Mike Tomlin is coming back,

[Ben]

he's the number one candidate.

[John Middlecoff]

He's just, you know, I don't know if there's that much of a difference in 2027 with Sean McDermott and Mike Tomlin.

[Ben]

I mean, Sean's been beating them.

[John Middlecoff]

Now you could be like, well, they got Josh Allen. Well, yeah, but it's like he beat him.

[Ben]

He was.

[John Middlecoff]

Mike was beating everybody when he had Roethlisberger. That's where you rack up all your wins with a good quarterback. But Mike is going to be just his panache, his fucking just style, his swag. Like he's in no doubt about it. Five year, hundred million dollars and everyone's fired up like John Harbaugh. I do think that Sean McDermott, unless there's some star young offensive coordinators, would

[Ben]

100% get a job. I think Mike Tomlin is going to have multiple offers next year and Sean will definitely have one. I mean, Todd Monkin and La Flora got jobs.

[John Middlecoff]

Why isn't Rosen talked about as a bigger bust? The guy had 12 career touchdowns and less than 3,000 yards. I think the number one thing he's got going for him is it just ended immediately. Started as a rookie, 10th overall pick next year, traded for Kyler, and it's just over. So it's like it never really happened. You know, when you look at some of these other guys, they played a little bit. They were with their team for long. He was off his original team in less than 12 months. It was that fast.

[Colin Coward]

Right?

[John Middlecoff]

He's drafted.

[Ben]

When?

[John Middlecoff]

In April. When's he traded? March.

[Ben]

I mean, so just.

[John Middlecoff]

He didn't even make it a calendar year. So I, I, I, I. He didn't play enough. And he was just out of sight,

[Ben]

out of mind is quicker than all these other guys.

[John Middlecoff]

I'm from the Bay Area and live in la. We had a wasp's nest outside our vacation rental in La Quinta. This guy's living. The key to stopping them is. Is gasoline. It deactivates their nervous system. Well, we actually found the wasp nest

[Ben]

on the front of my house.

[John Middlecoff]

Now, they were also coming from the back, but I've just been peeking.

[Ben]

I haven't been swimming.

[John Middlecoff]

It does feel like it's neutralized their

[Ben]

attack a little bit.

[John Middlecoff]

We'll have to keep an eye on it.

[Ben]

But we did find a nest that had 20 of them. Right. The guy that took it out because it was like 20ft in the air and he's got this special spray said, you know, between 8 to 10 were in the nest and died. So typically, and this was, you know, at 11:00 in the morning, 10:00 in the morning, that he'd said it's double the size with boss out and about. So we might have just killed their operation.

[John Middlecoff]

Why does the Shanahan Tree absolutely suck at clock management? We all know Kyle has his moments with all of his blown leads, but it seems to also. But it seems to also affect other coaches that share his offensive philosophy. LaFleur, who has a history of blown leads. Mike McDaniel has an issue with managing the clock. What makes it really interesting, however, is it seems to also affect the defensive coaches as well. Raheem Morris was really bad in the big moments like the game versus the Commanders in 24. And D' Amico Ryan's had some questionable decisions this year in the playoff game against the Pats. It's like a disease. None of the coaches have found a cure. My question is, why do you think poor clock management is a widespread as it is in the coaching tree?

[Ben]

I think for the offensive guys, they are consumed with their place and they're

[John Middlecoff]

so dialed in on their plays. Think about yourself.

[Daniel Cormier]

If you.

[John Middlecoff]

I see it like trying to text.

[Daniel Cormier]

We were.

[John Middlecoff]

I was doing a work text this morning. I'm holding him. He's going nuts. We got about seven other things going on. You can't focus if you are dead set on one thing. It's hard to just kind of handle the stuff going on around you. So I think for the offensive guys, they are so consumed with the offensive play call, just even if it's not their side, I think that's all consuming

[Ben]

for them in a game.

[John Middlecoff]

And like, if I'm defending any of the clock management guys and it's not even just the Shanahan Tree, lafleurs who the. Entirely.

[Ben]

It's not easy.

[John Middlecoff]

It's much easier for us eating M&M's on our couch, you know, with our

[Ben]

hand in our pants with our feet up, going, God, fucking idiot.

[John Middlecoff]

What a timeout. I was like, yeah, you're sitting on your couch. This guy is in the freezing cold or the super hot, you know, son trying to think about seven different things. His star player just came out with a cramp. He lost his middle linebacker to a broken leg or there's a lot going on. So I defend coaches in general a little bit.

[Ben]

I also just think that there are certain things that when you work for Kyle like they, he can say all he wants. Special teams is not something they emphasize. So like when you look at LaFleur, they were awful special teams shocker. You know, I don't know. I can't tell you specifically about the clock management. Beside I think you're so caught up on the other stuff that the clock management sometimes can. It comes at you fast and all of a sudden you got to make a decision and if you hesitate, it can cost you a couple seconds. You get caught in no man's land.

[John Middlecoff]

You almost just got to be willing

[Ben]

to make a decision.

[John Middlecoff]

I'm wondering if Nelly Corda is on your radar as she is on pace for an all time great status with her latest win and probably the best swing in golf. Men or women. Shout out to the show. Football, golf. Look forward to it as much as the dad diaries. I have two girls, 10 and eight and I can tell you it only gets better.

[Ben]

I can only hope so.

[John Middlecoff]

I did watch Nelly Corda's back nine

[Ben]

on Sunday at Riv. I thought she missed the putt on 18.

[John Middlecoff]

But the other thing is, and no shade. I mean these, the girls don't hit

[Ben]

it as long as the boys. I would be, especially if I like

[John Middlecoff]

could train a little bit for a couple months.

[Ben]

I would be the longest person on the LPGA tour. Like I, I'd be hitting it past everybody all their par fives.

[John Middlecoff]

You know, it was weird watching Riv because you're used to the guys some of the distances on their holes. I mean I, I'd be like driver

[Ben]

7 iron on some of their holes. It's a completely different game. She's. She's good.

[John Middlecoff]

Massive fan. Question for the bag. I live in Sydney, Australia and I'm traveling to the US next year with my wife for her 40th birthday. It's a big birthday. I'm a massive Raider fan and want to go to a home game in Vegas while I'm there. I love to do a college football game. Also I love the Longhorns. What other sporting events would you recommend as a must do experience? Well, if you're coming in the fall, it's football season. It's not like there's no Kentucky Derby.

[Ben]

If you're able to get to an SEC football game and get to Vegas and go to a Raider game, that's. It's a pretty solid sporting event. You know, checklist for you, whatever else you guys are going to do. So I don't know. Like, I don't even know. I mean, I I. Football season, it's all I do is football. So I can't even. I don't know what else is going on.

[John Middlecoff]

That's kind of crazy if you ask me. Like, what should I do in the fall?

[Ben]

I'm like, football. Maybe play golf on a Friday.

[John Middlecoff]

Football, my brain.

[Ben]

It's kind of sad, but if an

[John Middlecoff]

entire NFL coaching staff took over a team of 8th graders, full off season to train them, do you think they could dominate against any high school varsity team? Since NFL coaches are so much more advanced strategically, could their schemes and preparation help the 8th graders overcome the obvious size disadvantages?

[Ben]

No. There is no way an 8th grade

[John Middlecoff]

team, they could have Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi and Parcells against high school kids.

[Ben]

There's a physical mismatch of an eighth grader. I mean I personally hit puberty. Like I remember looking down and. Or maybe I've got one in my arm first, I think like going into ninth grade. So typically boys hit it later than girls. Right? Girls can hit it like 12, 13, 14. So some guys hit it like 16 years old. So the physical advantage, the line of scrimmage, especially if you're playing a high school with seniors that have some college players, you get, they'd be so much faster than you now if it's like the worst high school team ever, sure. And you got Christian McCaffrey, Patrick Mahomes, and you know, Patrick certain that are eighth graders on your team, maybe you can make some plays, but it would be really, really difficult. So I would say no.

[John Middlecoff]

I listen every morning. I'm a Ravens fan and for a long time I've said a receiver is what we need to move the needle, not our coach. We made some half assed attempts to get a veteran receiver with Beckham Hopkins, but they both were on the decline. Flowers is good, but not good enough to carry the whole team like a Justin Jefferson could. Am I missing something? Would love your input. Second question. I'm going to Charleston, South Carolina for a conference and I have a day off. Want to play some golf? Well, I've never been, but if I was you, I would try to play like Harbor Town or Kila. I would say it just hasn't been your M.O.

[Ben]

historically as an organization.

[John Middlecoff]

You know, from Anquan Bolden to who's Lamar's best wide receiver? Ben, that's just not really the. Look at the guys they invest in. Look at this off season. Who are their two big investments?

[Ben]

A guard and a pass rusher.

[John Middlecoff]

They let playmaking tight end leave. So I'm with You like? I think they would love a Justin Jefferson, but they're probably less inclined to take that guy high. You almost need to get lucky in the draft.

[Ben]

Zay Flowers, a good pick, he's a good player. But hell, maybe you trade for Justin Jefferson. Would you trade two first round picks if you're the Ravens for Justin Jefferson? You know a guy like that, if they're available.

[John Middlecoff]

From a Bronco fan perspective, you were hot and cold on Knicks. Sometimes it feels like you are pretty high on him. Other times it feels like you view him like you don't view him as a competent quarterback. Example, you said something along the lines of Josh Allen had his chance at a Super bowl last year and he couldn't even get through.

[Ben]

Bo freaking Knicks.

[John Middlecoff]

So what's your take on Bo? I know you don't like rankings, but where do you think he fits? Any chance that he can become a legitimate elite high level starter or do you think Broncos are in a spot where they will have to pay a mid quarterback top money? Well, one thing is if he doesn't

[Ben]

get dramatically better, they're not going to pay him. So he has to take a big step. Josh Allen's in the peak of his powers. He's the mvp.

[John Middlecoff]

So Josh Allen compared to Bo Nix

[Ben]

is like the size of the Grand Canyon, right?

[John Middlecoff]

There was a gap Jalen Brunson against

[Ben]

Victor Wembanyama and obviously Victor Wembanyama is way better than.

[John Middlecoff]

So if Josh Allen in a playoff game is going up against Bo Nix

[Ben]

in a playoff game in 2000, you

[John Middlecoff]

know, early 2026, Josh Allen's got to

[Ben]

win that game and really obviously it was a winnable game.

[John Middlecoff]

Bo Nix to me, top 15 quarterback, he has made high level, top six,

[Ben]

seven quarterback level plays in big moments, which matters, right?

[John Middlecoff]

But you know, for a period Derek Carr had more comebacks than Aaron Rodgers. So some of that is because your

[Ben]

team's down a lot.

[John Middlecoff]

And a lot of the reason they're down is it's not like their defense always getting shredded.

[Ben]

He eats not playing well. The three and outs. Remember that game against the Raiders?

[John Middlecoff]

Listen, he's a young quarterback. Tough transition in terms of like to

[Ben]

a team with expectations, to an intense offensive coach.

[John Middlecoff]

This is a big year for him. One, he's got to stay healthy and two, it's just got to be more consistent. Did you spend any time in Lompoc

[Ben]

when you were at Cal Poly? This is the last part of that question.

[John Middlecoff]

Yeah, we ate at. They had a famous steakhouse.

[Ben]

I remember going when my Friend's parents came down. God, I forget the name of it. I'm pretty sure it's in Lompoc. It was. I remember the steakhouse being incredible. I mean, at the time I. I didn't. I didn't have like much to go off of like what a good steak was and what a good steak isn't when you're 20 years old. But it was pretty good question for you.

[John Middlecoff]

I'm from Louisiana, so a big Saints fan. I've seen a few people saying that the Saints are the surprise turnaround team this year. I wholeheartedly agree. We got some attention at the end of last year. Shuck took over as quarterback. 1. Are you agreeing? They just signed their boy back, Cam Jordan. I think there's going to be a

[Ben]

lot of hype going into the season, and rightfully so. I. Let's pull up there. Let's pull up the old Saints schedule here. Damn tough little opener at the Lions, at the Ravens. I mean, if you win one of those, you're going to be feeling great.

[John Middlecoff]

Starts easing up a little bit. Raiders, Falcons, Vikings, Giants, Steelers, Browns, Panthers.

[Ben]

These have some tough road games at

[John Middlecoff]

the Bears, at the Bengals, Green Bay. But they get them at home at the Panthers divisional game at the Bucks, Cardinals, Falcons, Bucks. To me, if they could win one of these four road games, Lions, Ravens, Bengals, Bears, assuming all four of those teams are good, they could make some

[Ben]

hay, get 10 wins. God, those are tough non conference road games. Jesus. Or non division road games. I like the Saints. I'm a buyer. Like them even more now. Kind of peeking at their schedule. I'm going to take them to win the division. I'm going to bet on them in August.

[John Middlecoff]

You talk about the NFL growing outwardly internationally because they cannot grow upward in the U.S. well, do you think they could grow downward with the Sorsby case? This could become a prime opportunity for the NFL to approach the Big Ten and SEC and merge to create an amateur league. They're already in bed with college football through the draft. They're wanting to make the draft bigger. This could add value to their current product within the U.S. here's the problem then. They have to be financially involved and that obviously you share in the profits,

[Ben]

but you got to deal with the expenses, you got to deal with the labor.

[John Middlecoff]

You know, the best part about running

[Ben]

a company in America is like you

[John Middlecoff]

can hire from colleges.

[Ben]

You have nothing to do with the colleges. Not saying that the colleges necessarily impact some of these guys that you're going to hire in terms of like Making them a better future employee.

[John Middlecoff]

But there is a breeding ground for

[Ben]

workers in America in all different lanes.

[Safeway Advertiser]

Right.

[Ben]

It's no different in football. But it's not like Amazon has to invest in ucla, Texas and Ohio State.

[John Middlecoff]

So I think the NFL looks at like that's Alabama, lsu, Georgia, Ohio State, Michigan.

[Ben]

Let them deal with that because they're not going away.

[John Middlecoff]

They're making too much money.

[Ben]

And I, I'd be stunned.

[John Middlecoff]

The NFL is also making too much

[Ben]

money to risk doing something like that.

[John Middlecoff]

They've never had to do it for

[Ben]

50 plus years or however long the draft's been going on. But in the super bowl era, and the colleges do it for them

[John Middlecoff]

and everyone benefits. The colleges benefit because you could talk about players as a draft prospect.

[Ben]

The NFL benefits. It's like a win win for everyone involved.

[John Middlecoff]

Do you think when a coordinators and assistants leave for interdivision jobs, there's either bad blood before or after? I keep thinking, thinking about Dan Campbell and Ben. Dan seems like one of the easiest guys to work with or for. Clearly their relationship will never be the same after he left for Chicago. Should Dan take it personal or other coaches in similar situations?

[Ben]

It's just kind of the nature of the industry they're in, right.

[John Middlecoff]

I think for most of us, if,

[Ben]

if I was went to partner up with someone who was a direct competitor with Colin and our goal was to take Colin down and the volume down, the animosity like it happens in most of your businesses all the time, right? A competitor steals you, your goal is

[John Middlecoff]

to steal market share from them.

[Ben]

And it can just get contentious, right?

[John Middlecoff]

Because we're ultimately trying to end you in football. The nature of the movement of like

[Ben]

this guy can never be the head coach there. So when he gets head coaching opportunities, is he supposed to take a shittier job that's not in the division? I mean it was a pretty unique gig. It's the Chicago Bears. I think it happens so frequently

[Dell Advertiser]

that

[Ben]

if your relationship is strong enough, completely unfaced now, the guys have big ego. Some people say some things, some people where I think it fractures is when you go, hey listen, I'll do everything

[John Middlecoff]

to support you getting a head coaching job.

[Ben]

You're just not taking my coaches like you're, you know, these guys are under contract and we're keeping them. And that's where I think, because then it turns me versus you. But think how often it happens in the NFL. I mean it happens all the time. Think about Steve Spagnola. He was like Andy's guy. And then he left the Eagles to go to the Giants to be their defensive coordinator in the 2000s. Like the position coaches leaving to be court. Look at Flurry Shanahan's guy. He just went to Seattle to be the offensive coordinator. Same with Clint Kubiak. I think you kind of become numb to it after a while.

[John Middlecoff]

I can't speak to those guys personal

[Ben]

relationships, Ben and Dan,

[John Middlecoff]

but I don't

[Ben]

think they have animosity toward the job you pick. Unless you're someone worked for Belichick and you chose the Jets.

[John Middlecoff]

Today's show is brought to you by

[Ben]

our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet.

[John Middlecoff]

We talk a lot of football here, but it's now time to talk the other football. You know the soccer tournament is going down right now. Everyone's watching, including myself. National pride on the line. Superstars everywhere chasing immortality. And for the next month, every match will feel like the finals. If you haven't tried Hard Rock Bet, there's no better time than now. Whether you're back in your country betting on your favorite superstar or building a same game, parlay goals over unders to win a group, you name it, they got you covered. And if you're ever late to kickoff, don't worry. Hard Rock Bet let you live. Bet all match long. Plus they have new promos daily. Sign up with Hard Rock Bet today and place a $5 bet if it wins. You also score 150 in bonus bets, a winning bet plus an extra 150 to bet with. Now that's how you get this summer party started. Download the HRB Hard Rock Bet app today. Roll with us.

[Ben]

Go with us, Hard Rock Bet.

[Boost Mobile Advertiser]

You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rents going up? Streaming services are going up? Even your favorite burrito spots suddenly think salsa should cost a extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this go up soon? Game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life. Meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things just never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hey, I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. Together we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges.

[Podcast Announcer]

I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartum depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety.

[Hoda Kotb]

Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Safeway Advertiser]

Save on family essentials at Safeway and Albertsons this week. Extra meaty pork back ribs bone in are $2.99 per pound limit 2 member price and Sweet Red cherries are $2.99 per pound Limit 6 lb member price with coupon plus signature select 80% lean ground beef sold in 3 pound twin pack bricks is $4.99 per pound limit 1 member price with coupon Fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in. This deal won't last. Visit safewayeralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.

[John Middlecoff]

What is your opinion of Eric B. Enemy and Chad o' Shea toward the offense in the upcoming season? Will they advocate for systematic or schematic changes? Well, B.

[Ben]

Enemy's been there forever, right?

[John Middlecoff]

Like when I think of Eric B. Enemy, you know, he worked for Brad Childress and then he works for Andy. Like he's kind of, you know, he when he became an offensive coordinator at

[Ben]

ucla, he want to throw the ball a lot.

[John Middlecoff]

So he's got a lot of Andy in him. But I think his personality, he knows a lot of their core guys. I think Chad o' Shea is going

[Ben]

outside the box a little bit for Andy. This is a guy that came up in the, in the Patriot system. You know, I know he's bouncing around a little since, but

[John Middlecoff]

I think that

[Ben]

organization is when it comes to offense is open minded to some stuff clearly and they're going to have to pivot. You see the video of Rasheed Rice coming out of his 30 day jail sentence and there were like two guys sitting there with camera phones and chased him out. I saw a tweet that said this reminds me of like Maury when the guy gets, you know Paternity tests and finds out he's the father and sprints away like it was a little weird. Like, what are we doing here? I can't imagine being that guy, right?

[John Middlecoff]

Sitting there waiting for people to come

[Ben]

out of a jail cell with a camera.

[John Middlecoff]

So one thing I will say about

[Ben]

the Rossini variable situation is like, there are people's jobs that just wait for you at an airport. I fucking hate the airport.

[John Middlecoff]

I want to get out of there

[Ben]

as soon as possible. You just sit there and wait all day. I go, hey, we all do different gigs.

[John Middlecoff]

Who is the best football player you've seen live in high school, college?

[Ben]

In the NFL level?

[John Middlecoff]

I would say best football player in high school was probably Maurice Jones. Drew.

[Ben]

I watched him in high school like, like on tv. We didn't play him or anything.

[John Middlecoff]

Would probably be him or Cliff Harris

[Ben]

who played at Oregon and then played a little bit in the NFL. He couldn't put down the, the joint. Big weed head. I mean, the guy couldn't stop smoking and function. But he, in high school, he was incredible.

[John Middlecoff]

Sometimes.

[Ben]

Like, I remember watching guys in high school when I was at first to say, like, Eric Kendricks, who went on to have like a.

[John Middlecoff]

Be a Pro Bowler unreal player in college.

[Ben]

Like, I don't think it was that

[John Middlecoff]

good in high school, college. Best player I've ever seen live is Kellen Moore.

[Ben]

Kellen Moore is like my Joe Montana. He was so good in college.

[John Middlecoff]

Can I just read you some Kellen

[Ben]

Moore college stats in this? You know, when we were, when I was at Fresno, it was the peak of their powers.

[John Middlecoff]

Kellen Moore in College through 142 touchdowns and 28 interceptions. I'm pretty sure Boise State's record during his three years as the starter. So that would have been eight, nine. They went 12. And I think he was 53.

[Ben]

And I think he was like 50 and three or 53 and three.

[John Middlecoff]

He never lost.

[Ben]

He was incredible in the NFL. I mean, I've seen Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, paid Manning. I mean, I've seen all those guys live.

[John Middlecoff]

I would say the guys I saw play the best.

[Ben]

I mean, I saw J.J. watt in the peak of his powers. It was like looking at the white Lawrence Taylor. I mean, they were different type players. But I'm just saying, like, he could not be stopped.

[John Middlecoff]

I went to a game, he had multiple sacks. He had a strip fumble which he got from the quarterback, which he took

[Ben]

and he scored a touchdown as a tight end.

[John Middlecoff]

That was a bad Raider team.

[Ben]

But I just remember thinking it was like a second or third year. Jesus. I mean, I've seen a bunch of the great Niners, you know, Bowman, Willis were pretty incredible. All the guys on Seattle, Russell, Roll Thomas, Camp Chancellor, I would just say pure one game. I remember leaving thinking like, that's as good as it gets. Would be J.J. watt, it would have been like 14, I think.

[John Middlecoff]

Pretty sure. He had multiple sacks, he had like

[Ben]

seven tackles, four TFLs and a touchdown. And his touchdown was not just like a wide open touchdown. He caught like a beautiful dime in the corner of the end zone.

[John Middlecoff]

And I remember talking to an assistant who said that they had talked to Washington because I'm pretty sure the Texans opened up against Washington and their coach

[Ben]

is saying that was like his, his opening game against the Redskins. At the time, I think one of the coaches had told, you know, the other team's coach like that that's the best game we'd ever seen.

[John Middlecoff]

If an offensive coordinator works under a

[Ben]

play calling head coach like Ben Johnson,

[John Middlecoff]

is he viewed as a less important person within the organization? Put it another way, is Press Taylor unlikely to be seen as the reason for any success of the Bears? Yeah, I mean you just. When you're the guy making the decisions,

[Ben]

you get the credit.

[John Middlecoff]

So if you're in an organization, if you're the offensive coordinator and you're not the play caller, one, you're making less money. So when you make less money, you're

[Ben]

viewed a little differently.

[John Middlecoff]

When you're the offensive or defensive coordinator and you're the guy making the play calls, one, you're, if you're an established

[Ben]

guy, you're compensated highly.

[John Middlecoff]

And two, like you do all the press, like it's just you're the decision maker. Like that guy is.

[Ben]

He's like a glorified position coach. Maybe that's unfair.

[John Middlecoff]

And I don't mean Press Taylor specifically,

[Ben]

I just mean the offensive coordinator that's not calling the place. It's probably different place to place.

[John Middlecoff]

But I've talked to people that know

[Ben]

people that work with Sean McVeigh.

[John Middlecoff]

They're like pro he. Every route, every blocking concept. Nothing goes through the offensive play sheet

[Ben]

without him all over it.

[John Middlecoff]

Like he's not only the play caller, he's the creator. Kyle, Same thing. So it's like you can be there offensive.

[Ben]

It's a great launching pad for you.

[John Middlecoff]

Same thing with Press Taylor for Ben Johnson. But you're basically just learning on the

[Ben]

flight of this guy who is now

[John Middlecoff]

to me, when a guy like Ben Johnson becomes a head coach, they their Role doesn't change. Like their offensive coordinator role stays the

[Ben]

same in the sense of like their control of the offense, how they see it. Their role changes because they're the head coach now and they got to deal with the entire team and you know, kind of run a staff. So it's more on your plate. But in terms of play calling, I don't think anything changes. You might have to delegate a little bit throughout the week when you got press conferences and stuff.

[John Middlecoff]

My wife often says, babe, we need to listen to anything else but sports talk. And now some of your dad diaries have me dying laughing. Anything but sports talk. As she doesn't comprehend football talk. And now we are trying to get pregnant. I'll say this. Okay, bud, hold up, wait.

[Ben]

He talks life and shit too. I love it.

[John Middlecoff]

For shits and giggles, let's say the Niners stay completely healthy this coming season. How dominant are they in comparison to other teams? I think if they stay completely healthy,

[Ben]

which is a big if they're a lock playoff team. If they are, which when are they completely healthy. But if they are healthy, they're a lock playoff team. Now if the other teams are healthy, you know, I think Seattle's a tough matchup for them. It just is. And the Rams on paper look excellent. So I don't know if they're as good as those two teams, but relative to the rest of the nfc, like can they beat the Bears, can they beat the Eagles, can they be the Cowboys, can they beat the Packers? You know, it's like their division, which

[John Middlecoff]

in a weird way, like there's games

[Ben]

are going to be probably a couple of them are going to be close, but they can handle everyone else.

[John Middlecoff]

I don't really hear anyone talking about how there was a year Lamar Jackson

[Ben]

built up his weight.

[John Middlecoff]

He was thicker, bigger, and he said he didn't like it because people were catching him. I'm wondering, do you think it might be something he should think about doing again? Yeah, he won't be breaking those 60 yard runs, double juke touchdowns anymore, but he certainly would be able to scramble and move the chains. To my recollection, he still had the same high marks on passing stats.

[Ben]

I hadn't really thought about that.

[John Middlecoff]

I think the guy that we saw early on in his career that was just like you said, 60 yard touchdown double, 360s in the open field. It was like Michael Vick on steroids.

[Ben]

It was incredible.

[John Middlecoff]

Like that guy's not coming back now. Whatever he is now is still faster

[Ben]

than basically everyone in the league.

[John Middlecoff]

So I think he's got to find a happy medium of how to stay

[Ben]

healthy, what the right body type is for him to feel comfortable, what's good on his muscles.

[John Middlecoff]

That's really on like the Ravens training

[Ben]

staff, the, the physical therapist, all those guys associated with the team to kind of find that happy medium.

[John Middlecoff]

I think the key to them is

[Ben]

like finding the perfect blend of offense for them, whatever that may be. I'm fascinated to watch what their offense looks like last year or I mean this upcoming year because it kind of

[John Middlecoff]

molded over the years.

[Ben]

Remember early on it was like, you

[John Middlecoff]

know, it was Greg Roman kind of

[Ben]

doing like the Kaepernick thing and then he, he was a much better passer than that. So it, it just got expanded, expanded, expanded and he won MVPs with it. So I, I, I'm fascinated to see what they're going to look like this year.

[John Middlecoff]

Question for the bag. Rank these quarterbacks based on their likelihood of winning both the regular season MVP and the super bowl this season. We're going Mount Rushmore dudes. Burrow Mahomes, Lamar, Josh. Well, I think it's very hard for

[Ben]

guys like Mahomes and Lamar Jackson when you've won multiple MVPs to win another MVP, you have to be exceptional, right?

[John Middlecoff]

So Josh Allen just won the mvp. So for him to win another mvp, he's got to be better than last year. Now last year they didn't win the division. So if all of a sudden they're 15 and two dominating the league and

[Ben]

if they're 52, he's going to have a big season, he would have some momentum.

[John Middlecoff]

But again it is kind of hard because the narratives matter. One thing, Burrows already set the set the table. Best team I've ever played on.

[Ben]

Ton of momentum for them coming in.

[John Middlecoff]

A lot of question marks in their division. McCarthy Rogers, 42 years old, New coaching staff in Baltimore. The Browns suck. Well actually their roster is not terrible.

[Ben]

They just the quarterback situation, they're probably not going to be that good, but their team actually has some pieces. You know what I mean?

[John Middlecoff]

I would go burrow Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes.

[Ben]

I don't see how Patrick Mahomes be able to put up the stats needed and their team's just going to be too young.

[John Middlecoff]

So I would go burrow Josh, Lamar Mahomes.

[Ben]

Last good question.

[John Middlecoff]

Once you've won a couple MVPs and Super Bowls like Mahomes, like it's less about the accolades like how do we

[Ben]

just get to double digit wins back in the Play playoffs.

[John Middlecoff]

Like to me all the Chiefs are

[Ben]

thinking about is how do we get back in the playoffs.

[John Middlecoff]

Good question though.

[Ben]

Okay, we're going to end on this. Lifelong cheese fan.

[John Middlecoff]

Nothing but appreciation for every moment we have with Mahomes. You know, there's.

[Ben]

Think about this, there's a question here. But we all, you know, if you're listening to this, typically at a young age, it's usually where you're born. But sometimes like you could be a Cowboy fan if you live in LA or you know, a New York Knicks fan because you're dad and you live in Seattle.

[John Middlecoff]

But for most of us it's a

[Ben]

regional thing and you're just kind of a fan of where you're born or who your parents, who your dad is a fan of or mom.

[John Middlecoff]

A lot of people go through life

[Ben]

with just not great experiences.

[John Middlecoff]

You don't see that much winning.

[Ben]

Maybe a year here, there you never get to experience just a unique all time great player. Maybe the best player is like some James Harden. You know, it's like, you know, every once in a while it's like you're just born in the bay area in 1970 and when you're 10 years old, Joe Montana shows up or you've been rooting for the Chiefs and then they

[John Middlecoff]

get Andy Reid and all of a

[Ben]

sudden five years later they got Patrick Mahomes. It doesn't get much better than that, man. That run you guys had, that's as good as it gets. I mean that's. It doesn't get any better than that. We go 20 more years and not see a team win three in five years.

[John Middlecoff]

We had our first child about the

[Ben]

same time you had Jack.

[John Middlecoff]

Thinking about taking a fam on a vacation. Any ideas or recommendations on vacationing with

[Ben]

a 6 or 12 month old?

[John Middlecoff]

We're in the same spot. So should we hit Caribbean all inclusive or check out some place in Phoenix?

[Ben]

I couldn't tell you. I don't have any recommendations.

[John Middlecoff]

I don't know. We're leaving Tahoe this weekend with some

[Ben]

of her friends that all have kids too. So we'll see how it goes. We're gonna have once we get there, a couple hour drive. We haven't really done that much. You know, we've kind of been here. I mean she's. We just. I'll let you know.

[John Middlecoff]

No recommendations of how it works.

[Ben]

Travel with the kid. We have something else happening 4th of

[John Middlecoff]

July, so we're gonna, we're gonna see how this goes. We traveled once with them just to

[Ben]

do some Stuff that wasn't necessarily, like, vacation related and it was pretty seamless. So we'll see how this one goes.

[John Middlecoff]

Not looking forward to it.

[Ben]

Like, traveling with children is pretty, like, stressful. Just this. She's been getting ready for like two

[John Middlecoff]

days, just laying out all the clothes.

[Ben]

So I don't know. I don't know what to do.

[John Middlecoff]

I can't. We got to go to a wedding in a couple weeks. It's like knowing that I'm coming home to him. He's getting up like the old me.

[Ben]

And listen to Mixy getting up the next day. It's like, I have a couple cocktails.

[John Middlecoff]

Like, that might be it. Like, it sounds miserable.

[Ben]

I have drank dramatically less since we've had him because he's in the back

[John Middlecoff]

of my head and I'm not even

[Ben]

running point on these situations. But it's just.

[John Middlecoff]

It's clearly a life changing deal. I mean, before you had a kid, if you guys want to go on a vacation, it's like, where do you want to go?

[Ben]

What can we afford? What sounds cool now? It's. It's an ordeal, but you're asking the. The wrong dude, my man.

[John Middlecoff]

I know nothing about what it's like

[Ben]

vacationing with a young child.

[John Middlecoff]

And I. I'm not even technically about to find out because we're gonna be

[Ben]

with other kids and it's not gonna be as like just us somewhere, which we're doing in like a month, which hopefully continues to chill out.

[Colin Coward]

Which he's.

[John Middlecoff]

He's had a solid week.

[Ben]

I'll give Jack if this was like a football game.

[John Middlecoff]

I would say the previous couple weeks

[Ben]

we were just getting our ass kicked. We were like the Cleveland Browns, the New York jets this week. I wouldn't exactly call him like Brady

[John Middlecoff]

Belichick Dynasty, but he's been like a solid.

[Ben]

Who would he be? Equivalent of like the Chargers.

[John Middlecoff]

Just not the prettiest. But it's just worked. We've won some games. We're just moving in the right direction.

[Ben]

Feels like we're the Chargers this week.

[John Middlecoff]

We're looking to become like the Bills

[Ben]

or the Rams or something.

[Daniel Cormier]

But right.

[John Middlecoff]

Right now, we're just pointing the right direction. We feel we got a good foundation

[Ben]

and we just got to get it done in the biggest moments, which is going to be on the plane here in like 48 hours.

[John Middlecoff]

Adios. Have a good weekend, everybody.

[Ben]

And I will talk to everyone soon.

[Dell Advertiser]

See you.

[Podcast Announcer]

The volume

[OnPlus Advertiser]

onplus nicotine pouches present comfort chronicles. A 10 o' clock tee time. How comfortable you show up in stretchy shorts, a breathable tee, and maybe no socks. Let the dogs breathe while other sweat and pleated khakis. You're in your comfort zone, bombing drive and in your pocket. OnPlus nicotine pouches the softest pouch on the planet. Buy a [e-mail] Products for tobacco consumers 21 years of age or older Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Boost Mobile Advertiser]

You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent, streaming, even extra salsa at your favorite burrito spot? But with Boost Mobile, you don't have to play the Will this Go Up Soon Game. Boost Mobile offers an unlimited talk, text, and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for Life. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[SoFi Advertiser]

Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing a SOFI personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a SOFI personal loan? Visit sofi.com stunt to learn more. Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891 this is an iHeart podcast.

[Podcast Announcer]

Guaranteed human.