The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Episode Summary
Guest: Alexandre Pantoja (UFC Flyweight Champion)
Date: December 6, 2025
Main Theme:
A deep dive into Alexandre Pantoja’s title reign, his upcoming UFC 323 fight against Joshua Van, the evolution of his skillset and mindset, and a discussion about the race for flyweight “Greatest of All Time” status against Demetrious Johnson.
Episode Overview
This episode features a candid interview with Alexandre Pantoja as he prepares to defend his UFC Flyweight title against the surging young contender Joshua Van. The conversation explores the significance of Van’s rise, the differences in generational mindsets, how Pantoja remains motivated, lessons from defeat, and his views on family, legacy, and greatness within the flyweight division.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Joshua Van Matchup and a New Generation
- Pantoja reflects on Van’s meteoric rise:
- “Nobody expect Josh fight for the title in the end of the year… that’s inspiration for all this new generation, all this new fighter generation.” (04:49)
- Notes Van is the first title challenger born in the year 2000, exemplifying a changing era.
- Praises Van’s strong mindset:
- “He don’t want people talking about I’m old if he beat me.” (05:16)
- Discusses how game plans can change quickly in a fight:
- “You don’t need a game plan… everything can change in the fight.” (05:50)
Path to the Title Fight
- Describes the moment he knew Van would be his next opponent after a standout performance on short notice:
- “When the fight’s over, I understand if I beat Kaikara France, Joshua is my next opponent.” (06:48)
- Anticipates an improved Van with a full training camp, motivating Pantoja to train even harder:
- “When he fight with me Saturday, he have a full camp and I expect a better fighter, you know.” (07:35)
Growth as Champion & Lessons from the Gym
- Examines how winning the championship belt changed his approach:
- “After taking the belt, I put a lot of work in the gym… when I’m back to the gym and then my training partners beat me, I understand, I know I’m more champ.” (08:23)
- Stresses never putting himself on a pedestal as champion, always striving and climbing:
- “You need like a climb again the mountain to get your shape, to get your level.” (08:53)
- Sacrifices made for success—including diet and family time, showing increased discipline:
- “It’s not just about what I did, it’s what I not did, you know.” (09:44)
Evolving Fight Style and Mentality
- Shifted from “street fight” mentality to more technical performances:
- “Before I try to make all the fights like a street fighter… but I don’t need that. I have a lot of technique.” (10:21)
- Cites improved striking and reliance on his elite jiu-jitsu:
- “My jiu-jitsu can be in another level, you know, and this helped me a lot.” (12:09)
- Plans to adapt in the fight, balancing his striking and grappling expertise.
Mindset Against Van: Experience vs. Youth
- Anticipates a high-pressure, action-packed fight due to both fighters’ styles:
- “I put the pressure on my fights. He put pressure in his fight.” (13:29)
- Shows great respect for Van’s life story and drive:
- “He’s the man of the house… come to America, live the American dream like myself, give a house for his mother, take care about his family. That’s a great history, you know.” (13:39)
- But also values the wisdom and maturity that come with age:
- “I feel so much more mature myself, you know… I can use this pressure he make to beat him.” (14:03)
- Recognizes the dangers of overconfidence:
- “The confidence can make you make mistakes, you know?” (14:29)
The Value of Experience and Learning from Defeat
- Relies on his long track record in big fights:
- “I learn more when I lose, you know, and a lot of losers I have in my life helping me to get this moment.” (14:59)
- Is keenly aware of his remaining time at the top and the importance of minimizing mistakes:
- “I don’t have more time to make mistakes, you know, I have a short time now. I’m with 35. I feel the best time of my life.” (15:50)
- Attributes much of his current form to improvements in diet, sleep, and balance:
- “It's not just the experience in the fight in the octagon, but everything you learn about this process.” (15:50)
Family, Gratitude, & Legacy
- Shares his deep gratitude for what life has given him beyond fighting:
- “I never dream one life like that, you know, I’m super happy. Everything I conquer side of my wife and my kids… I don’t need the title to prove I’m the champion.” (16:37)
- Sees his position as champion as a chance to impact and inspire others, especially his own children:
- “I want to be an example for my kids… now I’m a better man, and I can help a lot of guys in the same situation.” (17:54)
- Driven by both personal fulfillment and the desire to set an example.
The Flyweight “GOAT” Debate
- Host acknowledges that Pantoja is closing in on Demetrious Johnson’s legacy:
- “Right now, Alexandre Pantoja is nipping away at that legacy and closing the gap on becoming the greatest flyweight of all time. And in some people’s opinion, he might already be that.” (18:16)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “I like to call me old school guy… my mindset, my style. But I see a lot of good things about Joshua.” — Alexandre Pantoja [05:16]
- “Everything can change in the fight, you know.” — Alexandre Pantoja [05:50]
- “I haven’t been working a lot to get this belt… when I’m back to the gym and then my training partners beat me, I understand, I know I’m more champ.” — Alexandre Pantoja [08:23]
- “I’m better athlete right now and because that I can make a better performance in the October, you know.” — Alexandre Pantoja [09:44]
- “I have a lot of experience in my striking game and of course my jiu-jitsu make a lot of difference for me.” — Alexandre Pantoja [12:09]
- “He’s the man of the house… his history he have, you know, about come to America, live the American dream like myself, give a house for his mother, take care about his family. That’s a great history, you know.” — Alexandre Pantoja [13:39]
- “I don’t have more time to make mistakes, you know, I have a short time now. I’m with 35. I feel the best time of my life.” — Alexandre Pantoja [15:50]
- “I don’t need the title to prove I’m the champion, you know, because I have a beautiful family on my side.” — Alexandre Pantoja [16:37]
- “Now I’m a better man, and I can help a lot of guys in the same situation.” — Alexandre Pantoja [17:54]
- Host: “Pantoja is nipping away at that legacy and closing the gap on becoming the greatest flyweight of all time.” [18:16]
Important Timestamps
- 04:49 – Pantoja on Joshua Van's unexpected title shot, generational change
- 05:50 – Why game plans can evaporate in the Octagon
- 06:48-07:35 – Recognizing Van as his next opponent post-short notice win
- 08:23 – The importance of gym work after claiming the belt; training partners “beating” Pantoja
- 09:44 – Sacrificing personal and family time for success
- 10:21 – Evolution from brawling to more technical, tactical fighting
- 12:09-12:34 – How elite jiu-jitsu and striking shape his style
- 13:29-13:39 – Both fighters’ forward pressure; Van’s inspiring backstory
- 14:59-15:50 – The value of experience and learning from losses
- 16:37 – Family and gratitude
- 18:16 – Host frames the “GOAT” debate in the flyweight division
Tone & Language
The tone throughout is thoughtful, humble, and grounded—Pantoja often downplays his own status while lifting others up, frequently crediting his family, training partners, and experiences for his evolution as an athlete and person. The interview is direct but friendly, providing both insight and inspiration.
In summary:
This episode is a wide-ranging portrait of a champion at his peak, focused on preparation, humility, and personal growth. Pantoja honors the next generation, details his sacrifices, and is candid about both his struggles and joys, all while closing the gap on all-time greatness in MMA’s flyweight division.