Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – "Best of The Herd" (July 9, 2025)

The "Best of The Herd" episode serves as a comprehensive compilation of key discussions and insights from recent broadcasts. Hosted by Doug Gottlieb in Colin Cowherd's absence, the episode delves into prominent topics in the sports world, particularly focusing on the WNBA's rising star Caitlin Clark and significant NBA developments.

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1. The Rise and Challenges of Caitlin Clark in the WNBA

Timestamp: 00:33 - 18:08

Doug Gottlieb opens the discussion by highlighting the meteoric rise of Caitlin Clark, attributing her influence as the primary catalyst for the recent surge in WNBA popularity. He emphasizes how Clark's exceptional performance has brought unprecedented attention to the league, leading to broader media coverage and increased fan engagement.

"There is no denying the WNBA's sudden rise in popularity. And for those of us who are honest with ourselves, it's because of Caitlin Clark."
— Douglas Gottlieb [12:45]

Gottlieb critically examines the dynamics within the WNBA, suggesting that Clark's prominence has inadvertently caused friction among other players. He posits that long-standing feelings of marginalization among players are surfacing as resentment towards Clark, drawing a parallel to the saying, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."

"The only logical conclusion as to why so many of these women have done everything in their power to marginalize her rise... is that you have women that feel like they've been scorned by media, by mainstream fans."
— Douglas Gottlieb [16:30]

He further explores the WNBA's strategic decisions, such as the recent introduction of a WNBA mode in the popular NBA 2K video game series. Gottlieb critiques the selection of Angel Reese over Clark, interpreting it as an attempt to shift focus away from Clark and appease other players, thus fostering division within the league.

"The WNBA forcing us to take on Angel Reese as some sort of rival to Caitlin Clark... makes it feel icky."
— Douglas Gottlieb [17:50]

Gottlieb underscores the historical lack of support and insufficient media coverage that the WNBA has faced over the past 25 years, arguing that Caitlin Clark's spotlight may be both a blessing and a source of internal conflict within the league.

"For 25 years we didn't pay attention to it in sports media. Nobody did."
— Douglas Gottlieb [14:10]

2. NBA Insights: Chet Holmgren’s Max Contract and Giannis Antetokounmpo’s Future

Timestamp: 18:30 - 37:17

Transitioning to NBA-related topics, Doug Gottlieb engages in an in-depth conversation with Anthony Slater, a senior MLB writer for The Athletic. The primary focus is on Chet Holmgren, the promising young center for the Oklahoma City Thunder, who has recently agreed to a max contract.

"Chet Holmgren is going to protect the rim at a high level."
— Anthony Slater [28:00]

Slater praises Holmgren's defensive prowess and potential offensive improvements, though he expresses concerns about Holmgren's health and shooting consistency. The duo debates the long-term value of Holmgren's contract, considering his injury history and the Thunder's current roster dynamics.

Additionally, Gottlieb and Slater dissect Giannis Antetokounmpo's situation with the Milwaukee Bucks. Questions arise about whether Giannis intends to stay in Milwaukee or explore opportunities elsewhere, especially in light of recent statements by Rich Paul indicating potential dissatisfaction with the Lakers' championship prospects.

"It makes you questioning if he will finish his career with the Lakers."
— Anthony Slater [32:00]

Slater anticipates that Giannis is likely to remain with Milwaukee in the near term, barring any significant organizational changes or league dynamics that might prompt a move. The conversation also touches upon the strategic decisions of the Bucks in building a competitive team around Giannis.

3. NBA Summer League Hype: Cooper Kupp vs. Bronny James

Timestamp: 37:20 - 40:57

The episode shifts focus to the upcoming NBA Summer League in Las Vegas, spotlighting the high-profile matchup between Cooper Kupp and Bronny James. Gottlieb reflects on the historical hype surrounding figures like Zion Williamson and Victor Wembanyama, drawing comparisons to the current excitement.

"It's like the most expensive ticket ever. $2,500 courtside or something like that."
— Anthony Slater [39:50]

Slater comments on the event's escalating popularity, noting the packaged excitement around star newcomers and the strategic placement of marquee matchups to attract maximum attention. The duo reflects on past Summer League events, evaluating how the current season's hype compares to previous years.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: 41:11 - End

As the episode wraps up, Gottlieb teases upcoming discussions, including an interview with Keith Law, MLB Senior Writer, who will analyze the Los Angeles Dodgers' recent performance and other Major League Baseball topics. The episode concludes with a reminder to listeners to tune into live editions of "The Herd" for ongoing sports conversations.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Hell hath no wrath like a woman scorned."
  — Douglas Gottlieb [17:10]

• "We just don't have the hundred years of history in the NBA."
  — Douglas Gottlieb [14:45]

• "Chet Holmgren's early prime into his prime."
  — Anthony Slater [28:15]

• "LeBron is feeling a level of organizational, philosophical shift."
  — Anthony Slater [35:50]

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This episode of "The Herd" provides listeners with a thorough analysis of current sports dynamics, particularly highlighting the evolving landscape of women's basketball and pivotal NBA developments. Doug Gottlieb, along with guest Anthony Slater, offers nuanced perspectives that cater to both avid sports fans and casual listeners seeking in-depth coverage.

Transcript

[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Doug Gottlieb]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on FOX Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd, wherever you may be and however you may be making this part of your day, thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin King Coward. And for the next couple of hours, I want to talk sports with you. From Poway to Escondido to Oai Mesa. Welcome in. Good to be back on in LA on AM570, the home peeps, and all throughout the country on the iHeart family of networks, as well as the iHeartRadio app. Welcome. Welcome in. So in the I was today years old that I learned, right? You learn lots of things. It's weird as you get older. Right now I coach college kids. I'm a head coach of Wisconsin Green Bay. And again, I have a really good group of young men that want to learn, want to get better at basketball. We try and teach them about life a little bit. And, you know, college is just in a weird sort of phase where so many schools because of COVID went online. And then you factor in chat, GPT and everything else. How much are kids actually learning? But the biggest difference between a kid and an adult, I think there's two or three things, right? Like, you know, you're an adult when you never turn down a nap. You never turn down a nap. I mean, ask Tuohy and even Ryan, who doesn't have kids, have you go like, hey, man, two o'. Clock. What if I give you like an hour to shut off your phone and take a nap? There isn't an adult alive that's like, yeah, down for that. A kid. You say, hey, take a nap. But you know, after you get to like 2 years old, you're done with naps. Adults, well, adults, they will order vegetables or order salads or actually ask for them for dinner. Most kids like, what? Why you have to make them eat vegetables, make them eat legumes, make them eat fruits, right? That's the difference in adults. And the other thing about adults, as opposed to kids is I don't know if you're like this when you do the whole, you know, you help your kid with their homework. But man, you get to a certain age and you're like, man, I kind of like learning. Maybe it was how we were taught, maybe it was the teachers, maybe it was our desire to do other things. But I remember being in school and I just could not wait for every day to be over as opposed to now. Damn, I love learning things. I just do. Sunday I learned that a handball in soccer was not Just simply the ball touching a non goalkeeper's hand. I literally Monday I walked in and I was like, man, I didn't know that the ball could graze your hand. And if it was in the natural motion of whatever you were doing as a, as an athlete in soccer, in it didn't mean it was a handball. I don't know. Did anybody know that? I mean, I'm sure, like soccer guys, like, yeah, you dope. Hey, I played soccer growing up. I don't remember any of that stuff. I just remember the tunnel. I remember Capri Sun. I remember scoring goals. You know, I don't remember any of that. So I love learning. And I'll tell you something I learned today, okay? There was a playwright in the 16 and 1700s, mostly 1700s. His name was William Congreve. You're like, why are you telling me about a playwright? Because he's the one who authored up the phrase, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Have you ever heard that? If you haven't heard that one, I bet he also said, you must not kiss and tell. So kiss and tell and hell hath no worry. Hell hath no wrath like a scorned woman. That's that. We changed the words, that changed the order of it. We. Hell hath no furry like a woman scorned. That was William Congrevet, who was a famous playwright in the 16 and 1700s. Born in 1670, died in 1729. Like, why are you starting out with that saying? Well, I'll tell you, I also learned that apparently there's not a true standalone version of it, but a video game within a video game for EA Sports. So ea Sports has two kids, or is it EA Sports that has 2K? You're familiar with 2K? All right, so apparently there's also a WNBA version of 2K. And I get it right? Like, what is 2K? If you take away all the dunks and the made layups and three points and the high percentage of made three point shots and you have WNBA. But there is no denying the WNBA's sudden rise in popularity. And for those of us who are honest with ourselves, it's because of Caitlin Clark. And, you know, we can get into the reasons why I love the people that fall on the. The race aspect of it. When then you point out, like, hey, Sabrina Ionescu and Kelsey Plum were great women's college basketball players who came to league and have been great WNBA players and they have not received any Amount of the acclaim of a Caitlin Clark. There's a bunch of different factors, mostly likely the logo threes, the hey, we love Steph Curry. And here's the closest version of it. Who happened to play at the same school for four years, happened to take her team to two straight Final Fours, happen, looks like everybody else's little sister. All of those things she kind of nails. But upon my, my quest to learn something every day, I found out that there's a NBA 2K version focusing on the WNBA. But here's the kicker. The COVID choice was Angel Reese. Was Angel Reese. And it just continues this pattern of the WNBA doing everything in their power to, I don't know if it's diminish Caitlin Clark or to promote everybody other than Caitlin Clark, but whatever it is, we try and search for reasons and I keep falling back on hell hath no wrath. Like a woman scorned William Cornelius in the late 1600s. And like, wait a second, why are they scorned? Caitlin Clark said nothing negative towards any of these women. She doesn't have to. The only logical conclusion as to why so many of these women have done everything in their power to marginalize her rise to fame and what it's done for the entire sport of women's basketball is that you have women that feel like they've been scorned by media, by mainstream fans for the their entire lives, and comes out as anger and resentment towards Caitlin Clark. Does that make sense? There's something called the have you heard the anger iceberg. If you go through therapy, people tell you it's the. You learn the anger iceberg, that people are angry and they get snappy with one another in like relationships. And it's not about that one thing. It's about all this other thing, all the insecurities, all the mistrust, all the, the times of other relationships that have gone bad, etc, etc, etc, and it comes out as snappiness towards one another. And any relationship you have, even in business, you pocket resentment towards somebody else getting a promotion, somebody else getting shine, you not feeling like you're heard in a meeting, you having a bad interaction with somebody at a Christmas party, whatever for these women, okay? Remember, I see it as most of us see it. I'm Doug Gottlieb for Cowan. This is the herd, 25 years of the WNBA. I'm not as negative about their overall talent and skill as others are. It's a different sport, our expectations are different. We don't have the hundred years of history in the NBA. We just Don't. If you take away the NBA with the dunks and the proficiency from three point line, you know, and the other part about NBA players is they look like superheroes. Whereas many of these women, though for women, crazy athletic, crazy talented, there just is no comparison. When you watch one game to the other, it's like watching one in slow motion and one that plays below the rim. And below the rim causes more mislaiups and it's again just a different, much less athletic game. And for 25 years we didn't pay attention to it in sports media. And I've been a part of sports media for 25 years. We didn't pay attention to it because nobody did. The science to this is not that hard to figure out. Cullen. This is me doing the Colin thing. Cullen, you only want to talk about Tom Brady and Pat Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers and LeBron James. Yeah. Because we're no different than top 40 radio man. Play the hits. Our job is to talk about what most people care about. And we have 25 years of data that tells you most people don't care about the wnba. And the only reason we're talking about it now is because Caitlin Clark has brought attention and people are in fact talking about the WNBA now. So now we're going to be attracted to talking more about it. But when you're raised as a women's basketball player, you're raised to believe everybody's out to get you. Everybody's out to get you. Okay, look, I don't, I don't know if you recall, but if you go back to the COVID year NCAA tournament, right, they had women who are in San Antonio and they had little makeshift weight room and it was like, you know, two dumbbells and you know, and a balance ball. And then they showed the men's weight room in Indianapolis and it looked like a real weight room. And what happens is, you know, the NCAA like apologized for it. It act like this was, this was discrediting all of women's basketball. When reality is one, it comes down to the planning committee. That's what they have to do to the men's teams. I believe all of them were there for like a month. So they had to prep for it and they had the Big ten tournament there. So they had all this had all been kind of planned out. Whereas for San Antonio it was just a one stop shop and they threw it together. And anybody who's ever traveled know, knows that like it doesn't matter. The hotel chain, you can be a Hyatt guy, right? Or a bonvoy guy and only stuff. And some hotels have a rinky dink weight room and some hotels don't. It doesn't have anything to do with anything other than that particular hotel, that particular general manager, and what they think they want to focus their resources on. But the point is that that case is no different than anything else. Why do women have home sites during the NCAA tournament instead of the regional sites that the men have? Well, again, anyone who's realistic in business knows that the reason they went back to home sites is that's their only ability to draw people and to sell tickets. They've played in the big arenas. It hasn't worked, by and large. Trust me, if the NCAA felt like they could make more money doing it, they would do it because it's the only way in which they make money is the men's and women's NCAA basketball tournaments. But again, how you and I view it from a business perspective, which is very much in the neutral kind of corner, is, hey, they're doing it because it makes the most sense financially. How women view it is, oh, we're a secondary tournament. We have to play in home sites. Right? So it doesn't matter necessarily what the reality of women's basketball was over the last 25 years, right? That you started from nothing and built it into something that was fairly sustainable. Again, those of us who lived it in real time, as I have, like my media career, has mirrored essentially the length of the wnba. You went from being completely subsidized by the NBA playing in these gargantuan arenas to, hey, let's dial this back, play in smaller venues, be smarter, okay? Save more money, fly commercial, space out the games, etc, etc. But how it's received is we've been treated like crap for years and now you're trying to push this star, who she might be, another Jeremy Lin Lynn sanity. And we're not buying it. So when I saw that quote today, I just. And then I saw that the 2K version of NBA 2K had Angel Reese, not Caitlin Clark, on the COVID right? Because again, whether or not you're buying or I'm buying a WNBA 2K game doesn't matter. Everything would be boosted up if you put Caitlin Clark on it. Probably cost, you know, the gaming company more to put her on the COVID But the WNBA forcing us to. To take on Angel Reese as some sort of rival to Caitlin Clark. Forcing it, forcing it. Forcing it makes it feel icky when as. Whereas it's super easy here, just put Caitlin Clark on everything. It'll sell more. It'll be the rising tide that lifts all ships. But from the Olympic team last year to the players only voting where they voted her the 9th best guard to put Angel Reese on NBA 2K, to all the bitterness and pushback and the treatment of Caitlin Clark where they're clearly trying to punk her and bully her and her teammates into making her look bad, all of that stuff leads most of us to go, why? Why would you do that? Why wouldn't you embrace the fact that people are paying attention to your sport, covering it like it's one of the big three sports, probably got more coverage than the NHL Stanley cup playoffs, and the only logical conclusion I can come to is Hell hath no wrath like a woman scored. All the years of being made to feel like you're a secondary or tertiary product and probably even tertiaries not as strong as they were leads women to push back against anything seen as mainstream media and fans. Oh, now you like us. But only for her. Well, to you too. Give me your thoughts. Twitter, Instagram, otliebshow In the meantime, okay, we do have some NBA news. Chet Holmgren Re Ups for the Max Re ups for the Max. What does that mean for the Thunder and their ability to maintain the best record in the regular season and a postseason championship? Let's discuss it next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[TJ Houshmandzadeh]

Hey, what's up everybody? It's me, three time Pro Bowler Levar.

[Colin Cowherd]

Arrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called Up On Game. What is up on Game?

[Anthony Slater]

You ask?

[Colin Cowherd]

Along with my fellow Pro Bowler TJ.

[TJ Houshmandzadeh]

Hushmanzada and Super Bowl Champion.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep, that's right, Plexico Burris. You can only name a show with that type of talent on it. Up on Game, we're going to be.

[TJ Houshmandzadeh]

Sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up on game with me, Lavar Arrington, TJ Huch, Manzada and Plexico.

[Colin Cowherd]

Burris on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast.

[TJ Houshmandzadeh]

Or wherever you get your podcast from.

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[Doug Gottlieb]

Doug Gottlieb for Colin this is the Herd fox Sports Radio iHeartradio app welcome in so the big news in the NBA today as we get ready for real NBA Summer league which is Las Vegas. Yes again and I'm it may sound disrespectful for the I forget what the California Golden State games are is the one everyone hyper focuses on is in Las Vegas and we'll we'll get to that upcoming in the show because the Lakers played yesterday. The Lakers are the signature nightcap in the summer league opening night against the Dallas Mavericks. And of course the Dallas Mavericks have the number one overall pick and the Lakers have Ronnie James and it's A, it's, it'll be something. But let's, let's dig in with Anthony. Slater, of course, covers the league for the Athletic. He joins us now, the Herd. Anthony, let me, let me ask you about Chet Holmgren. So announced today that Chet Holmgren agrees to terms on a max contract. On a max contract to remain in Oklahoma City. And he's really only played like a season and a half. If you're an Oklahoma City fan or you're hopeful of a dynasty there does. What does this do for you?

[Anthony Slater]

I mean, I think it's just check the box that you knew was coming and other the one that's coming soon is going to be Jalen Williams, who has the same agent, Bill Duffy, which I'm sure, you know, helps in leveraging negotiations. But you know, Jalen Williams is going to get his max. And his max, if he makes all NBA again would actually be even higher than chess. And you know, we're talking about rookie maxes. I know sometimes we just, everybody just says max. They're different, you know, percentages of the cap and this is, you know, the fresher one. But, you know, you're, you're getting the next six years of Chet Holmgren's early prime into his prime. Sure. He's not your, you know, prototype number two, certainly as a score, I think he's got higher upside there, but I mean, he's a rim protecting three point shooter at seven feet tall. To me, like, you know, that is a very valuable piece for a team that wants to win with defense first. And you saw it in the play. You know, we can, we can kind of at times. I certainly did, you know, their first playoff run together when they lost in the second round, even though they're the ones he. I kind of wondered if Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgrid could be a legitimate number two, number three on a title team. Well, that question kind of was answered a month ago.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, I mean, I think the question for, for Chet is twofold. One, can he stay healthy?

[Anthony Slater]

Yeah, right.

[Doug Gottlieb]

That's the big thing. Can he stay healthy and then at some point can he regain confidence in his shooting?

[Anthony Slater]

Yeah.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Fair.

[Anthony Slater]

I mean, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a good question. But I think even the version of Chet you saw really impacts winning. You know, it's, he's going to protect the rim at a high level. There was times even in those finals, you know, I can remember in a couple of losses, certainly, you know, his, his shooting. You know, I think he went to a nine in the game one loss and was really hard on himself. And I remember late in one of the games in Indiana, Miles Turner kind of, you know, wiped away a couple of his shots and, and those flaws seem to, you know, percolate a little bit. But also I can remember him like, you know, walling off the rim in important stretches of those finals. But y. He like, he has a next level to get to that. I think I would agree with you that his health will determine because he spent all last summer really kind of like grinding and getting his offense, I think, to. To a higher level. I think I went to their opening night game in Denver and he like outplayed Jokic. I think he had like 25, 14 and five blocks. And then about two weeks later I'm at a game in Oklahoma City and Andrew Wiggins just plows through him and he breaks his hip and then he's bedridden for six weeks. He's out for, you know, 50 games. Whatever he ended up missing last season, I think that really stunted his. But yeah, I would agree that long term for him to like, probably be worth that contract. When we're in the middle years and you know, you're talking 50 million or whatever it's going to be, you'd want them, you know, 18, 19 per game, maybe like a 38% at least three point shooter and more of a supplementary score. Because the other part of this is they're about to get really expensive and some of that depth that's been around them is going to kind of melt away, right?

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, it will, but they're kind of. You mentioned Jalen Williams. What do you make of the fact he just shared that he received about 30 injections during the playoffs just to be able to get that right wrist functional to play through the NBA Finals?

[Anthony Slater]

To me it's a. I mean, it's impressive, right? And then it didn't come out. And you know, he still played well. He had a 40 point game in the Finals. Like, I don't think his shooting was to his standard the whole playoffs, but he had a really good playoffs in generally. And you know, knowing what he went through with the Ritz, that that makes it more impressive to me. But I also think it's more another example of like a lot of times we don't know what most of these guys are going through physically. Like I'd say, you know, 80% of the league by, you know, middle of the playoffs has some time a bumper bruise that sounded like a more extreme version of one, right A torn wrist. But, you know, like the warriors, for example, had two. Like Moses Moody had to get wrist surgery after the year. Pajemski had to get, you know, oblique surgery and, you know, something for his thumb, like, you know, and that's, that, that's common across the league. It feels like two players per team have to get some type of, like, postseason surgery. Right. They announced Anthony Davis yesterday had to get, like, retina surgery.

[Doug Gottlieb]

He had a detached retina. Like, who knew, like, you had a detached retina. You're just playing like. Yeah. Now the, the only guy that lets us know LeBron who came in with that wrist sleeve one time after losing in the finals, right? Oh, yeah. By the way, I'm hurt. I'm hurt the whole Life. Speaking of LeBron, okay, how does the league and all of your sources feel about Rich Paul's statement? Hey, LeBron wants to win championships. When you, you just picked up your own option to remain with LA and you essentially said, we can't win a championship in L. A no matter how they might backtrack in the future. How does the league felt about what Rich Paul said?

[Anthony Slater]

It definitely, like, perked some ears up, you know, because that's typically, you know, kind of the more subtle, passive aggressive statements is often what, what has been hinted by, you know, Rich and LeBron over the years. You know, but there's, it's, it's really, I mean, you're seeing it now. It's really difficult to, like, move big contracts in, in the current NBA and find, you know, teams that can, you know, absorb that type of deal under all these, like, weird new apron rules and all that. So I think it makes you. And it's definitely when you talk to people in the league, there's, there's more of questioning of, of if he will finish his career with the Lakers. But unless he really kind of tries to agitate his way out of town to a suitor that I'm not sure, you know, we can come up with a, with one right now that like, can kind of fit him in and, and has the motivation, then I think he's just going to be on the Lakers next year and they're going to be pretty good. I mean, I would probably agree that. I wouldn't consider them, you know, an inner circle, top five type title contender, but they were the three seed last year. You know, maybe the eight and fit works. Maybe Luka's in shape. Like, I could see them being somewhat of a, you know, fringe threat next year. So he's probably going to have to kind of at least somewhat happily try to play that out.

[Doug Gottlieb]

One would think. But it's, it's just odd, right? Like if you wanted to me, one part it says is he doesn't think, they don't think he's a top 15 player anymore. Because if you, if we all think that Luca is and then people think LeBron is, well that's. You're starting from a pretty good spot, you know.

[Anthony Slater]

Yeah, like you know, maybe edging towards all star. I don't know what you think about the eight fit, but it's, it's at least more theoretical capabilities at the center spot.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Here's what I think of the eight and fit. Okay. This would be the, just kind of the basketball element to it. I don't know personality wise, what works and what doesn't work. I don't profess to know. The reason the Lakers can't win is because if those are your three best players, they're all minuses at the defensive end. Right. LeBron at this age doesn't move anymore. Reaves has never been a particularly good defender though he does fight and Luka is a non defender and maybe he gets in shape and fights a little bit more, you know. And in the NBA you can maybe hide one guy, but outside of that can't hide two. And then you know, they wanted rim protection like Deandre Ayton is not a rim protector. He's also not a lob threat. Right. He's a roller to score, to catch and finish, you know. So does it fit with Luca because he's a pick and roll option, I guess. But a guy who's never played well in the playoffs isn't a rim protector and like once the ball on rolls is an offensive minded score. Like again, I understand that we. You're asking something of Polinka. Like it's not like he had a blank slake and could pick anybody. I just don't know how all that group works together to be anything special in the playoffs.

[Anthony Slater]

Yeah, I mean Luca, you know, has worked best in the past with like the Derek Lively's of the world, the Daniel Gaffords and, and I would agree. I mean Ayton's free throw rate is like ridiculously low for a guy, you know, at his size. I will say like he was a starting center and a productive center on a finals team like not that long ago. I mean obviously that was kind of Chris Paul operating in the pick and roll where he doesn't necessarily as much the lob threat. But you Know, he liked it. And I bet if, you know, you go look at the numbers like Ayton finished a lot more lobs in Phoenix than he did in Portland. Now, you know, to your point, I think you generally throw it to him and he wants to like, you know, get the eight footer and do the touch stuff and he's not super physical. But as you mentioned, they didn't have, you know, they 39 year old Al Horford wouldn't have been a lob threat, you know, some of the other options out there on the free agent market. So I think part of what's going on right now is the Lakers are taking a somewhat patient approach. They're not, you know, using all their assets for a Mark Williams. It seems like they've pulled back from that a little bit. And that's what I think. You know, going back to your original question, I think that's what you're feeling with the LeBron statement, that he's feeling a level of organizational, philosophical shift to a patient, longer term, Luka Doncic related approach. Because Lucas, 26 and he's sitting there going like, I don't really have a long term approach and he's using whatever tool he believes he has to maybe try to, you know, leverage a little pressure of like, hey, you know, let's try to win next season because next season might be the final season for him to win.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, I don't, I agree with you. I don't think next he'll, it's not gonna be his final season unless he gets a farewell tour.

[Anthony Slater]

Maybe in la.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Again, I agree with you. Maybe in la, but I don't, I don't think he's gonna do the final season thing without a farewell tour.

[Anthony Slater]

I just, I just don't announce preseason Kobe Bryant style.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah.

[Anthony Slater]

Celebrated in every arena. Right. You're probably right.

[Doug Gottlieb]

And, and look, I understand to people who don't like LeBron, they'd be like, dude, okay. And he's a little bit much, but he's also the all time leading scorer in NBA history who's won four titles and four MVPs and is in any discussion of.

[Anthony Slater]

He's Mount Rushmore.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Right, right. So it's like, yeah, I mean, if there's ever a guy who kind of deserves it, like, yeah, that's, that's not.

[Anthony Slater]

That a lot of the people that might kind of scoff a little bit of LeBron would love Kobe. Right. And you remember it like, what was that, a 20 win Laker team that he was just going around to Every arena, they would do a pre game celebration, they would present him with presents and do tribute videos for him. And then the home team would beat the Lakers by 25 points. Yes, yes, yes.

[Doug Gottlieb]

And, and Kobe and, and, and the other part was like, look, I know Kobe, God rest his soul, is, is now he's been thrust up to the Mount Rushmore, but there was a lot of things in his career he wasn't beloved for. There was, there was a lot of nonsense early in his career and by the end, you know, Kobe was a different guy and it evolved into somebody who was worthy of all of all of the praise, not just for the play, but also he become kind of this philosopher and been really thoughtful and shown his true love for the sport. But like, let's not, let's not kid ourselves. Like there was a lot there with Kobe, with I want to be traded, the breakup with Shaq and all that other stuff. So it was like he's, he knows Saint right. So it's just interesting on how we look back with colored glasses because of Kobe's passing, But also because LeBron is so different from Kobe and playing essentially for Kobe's franchise, really, if you. That's probably what's hurting him the, the most has been the franchise hopping. Speaking of franchise hopping, what about Giannis? Does he want to stay in Milwaukee or does he want to play somewhere else?

[Anthony Slater]

Seems like at this temporary moment he has been, you know, message to the Bucks and, and certainly to the league that his feet are where they are in Milwaukee. I'm not sure there's any type of guarantee how long that's going to be, but if you're the Bucks and you make the type of very win now move and mortgage the future type move, that was the Damian Lillard wave and stretch to fit Miles Turner in, like that's. You're doing that under the understanding it would seem that Giannis is at least in on the start of next season. And you're trying to maximize next season because if suddenly, you know, Giannis in August, September, ask out prior to the season, like what a disaster move that, you know, Lillard thing would look like because you got 22 million on the books for the next five years dead cap. So, you know, for now, it seems Giannis will be in Milwaukee, you know, but that does seem like it's a, you know, temporary thing that could become more permanent depending on how they look and how they play and how their future looks.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Tomorrow night in Vegas, Cooper flag and the Dallas Mavericks take on Bronny James. Bronnie struggled last night, but very few people pay attention to the Cali games. You've been around this thing for a while, right? You had the Zion hype, the Wemby hype, right? There's, there's Wemby was, was pretty big. Where does this one rank in terms of the. The Vegas, Thomas and Mac Summer League for opening night hype?

[Anthony Slater]

Well, I heard it's like the most expensive ticket ever. There was a 2500 courtside or something like that. It's, it's not even just like, obviously, you know, Cooper Flag's a big name and Bronya is, but just the event itself, itself has just exploded there. You know, you'll go to, you know, day three, you know, Pelicans, Knicks with maybe one lottery pick on the floor, and it's like pretty, pretty packed. So it's just, I think it's just become such an impressive event for the league in general. And typically you do on that, that first second night get, you know, the first overall pick oftentimes going against the second overall pick. I think just because of the, the Lakers territory, which is, you know, Vegas in a sense, and Bronnie's name, they matched up Cooper Flag and Bronnie. So it'll be, it'll be cool. But at the same time, like, I remember Wemby walking into the arena and the buzz of it. I remember the Zion game for the Earthquake and in Vegas and then the. That was the night Paul George and Kawhi Leonard, like that bomb got dropped on the league and they were going to the Clippers together. But I actually don't really remember much from Zion's game or Wimby's actual game.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Andrew, enjoy the game. Let's talk again soon. Can't read. Can't wait to read your work on Summer league and on all this other stuff going on. Andrew Slater, pick up his stuff, read his stuff in the Athletic. He's outstanding. Thanks for joining us in the herd.

[Anthony Slater]

All right, thanks.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Anthony Slater. I'm sorry, Anthony. I'm one arm paper hanging it. Thanks so much, Anthony. Yep, one more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

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[Doug Gottlieb]

What up? Welcome in this is the Herd. Wherever you may be or however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd Collins. Back next Monday after a good old fashioned week off, Keith Law is going to join us, senior Major League Baseball senior, MLB senior writer for the Athletic. We'll get his thoughts on what's wrong with the Dodgers. And how about this Misarowski? Pretty, pretty amazing stuff. And what about the guy leading the bigs in home runs plays in Seattle? Dead ballpark. A dead ball ballpark of all places. Plus we got Major League Baseball's draft upcoming this weekend as well. A lot to get to with Keith Law. Want to start with this? So there's a a new season of the Quarterback on Netflix and a guy who I do think that America sort of fell in love with watching this series going back two years ago was Kirk Cousins. Right. And we talked to start the show. If you're just joining us, Doug Goddard been for Colin. We talked about how WNBA players, I think the best term would be felt disenfranchised by mainstream fans and media for so long. Now they're like taking it out on Caitlin Clark. I think Kirk Cousins is a guy that's had a lot of ammo, picked in the fourth round from a team that drafted a first round starting quarterback who was rookie of the year that year in RG3 and then when it became his franchise felt like they didn't like him there. Heck, the president of the team in an interview kept calling him Kurt Cousin when his name is Kirk Cousins. I'd like again, you're showing somebody disrespect if you don't even know their name. Repeatedly. Yes, I know. I, I know I screwed up last hour. But my point is when it's and again it was like Bruce Allen was like eight times and when talking about Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins, Kirk Cousins. Like name's Kirk and I work for you and I'm starting quarterback. So Kirk has spent time exacting his own Personal revenge for people who didn't think he was good enough. Got the fully guaranteed contract, got the extension in Minnesota, won a road playoff game in New Orleans, proved on some level that he's better than advertised in primetime games, and then departs at the end of last season. Now, full disclosure. End of last season, he had torn his Achilles tendon. He was on his way to a unbelievable year in the neighborhood of 6,000 yards passing that season. But Kirk Cousins struggled from about the midpoint this year and ultimately got pulled from Michael Penix, who was the top 10 pick of the Falcons. To many people's surprise, like, you're going to sign Kirk Cousins, then draft a first round pick quarterback. That seems weird. So in that season of the quarterback, with the new season, the quarterback, here's what Cousins had to say about if he could do it all over again. Wasn't expecting us to take a quarterback so high. At the time. It felt like I've been a little bit misled or certainly if I had the information around free agency, it certainly would have affected my decision. I had no reason to leave Minnesota with how much we loved it there if both teams are going to be drafting a quarterback high. But I've also learned in 12 years in this league that you're not entitled to anything. It's all about being able to earn your spot and prove yourself. Yeah. So he like backtracks. He's like, hey, you know, you're in your spot, you prove yourself or whatever. But had I known, look, this is, this one's, this one seems pretty obvious. I get that he likes it. But the buyer's remorse that Cousins has, Keep in mind that again, Cousins has won in the business of sports. He's the guy who's done no extra years. Just give me the years, give me the money, make it all guaranteed. He did. And, and that worked for him in Minnesota. But Minnesota was moving on. Make no mistake about it, they were moving on. They had allocated their resources towards their wide receiver and other pieces and they had made the decision, hey, we're going to go get a first round pick. And then they signed Sam Darnold as a, as a placeholder or just in case. And remember, he had worked in that offensive system when he was in San Francisco the two years previously. Like, this is one of those things that, it sounds really good in documentaries. Like, man, if I knew they're taking a first round pick and Minnesota's taking a first round pick and I love Minnesota, I would have stayed in Minnesota. Like, what are you talking about? Kirk, they weren't going to pay you. What Minnesota, what Atlanta pays you? You know, they just weren't. You know, it's like, yeah, I totally would have stayed there. Would you really? Again, that's cow. That's fertilizer. That's what that is. Right. Remember, he essentially signed a two year deals, four years, 180. Okay, 90 million guaranteed at signing. Minnesota wasn't giving you that. Like, what are you even talking about? Yeah, hey, had I known that they were gonna do that, Like, I didn't, I didn't know they were gonna do that. And again, does it look great for Atlanta to draft the quarterback? Actually now it really does because Kirk Cousins, who apparently got hit, you know, decided to play while hurt because he knows that, you know, one of the, one of the biggest lies. There's lots of lies told in the NFL, but the old, you don't lose your job to injury. Like, what, did Drew Bledsoe lose his job to? Injury? Of course he did. Lots of guys have lost their job to injury. So Kirk Cousins apparently took a hit to his shoulder and didn't tell any. You know, now he's, I didn't tell anybody that I was, I was hurt. Like, yeah, dude, you were playing, you playing well, and then all of a sudden your production fell off a Cliff. He played 14 games. Let's not act like Atlanta did you wrong. Oh, man, Atlanta, they did me wrong. They, they gave you 14 games, the last couple of which were bad. You threw 18 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. Like, I can't believe they drafted another quarterback. Why? Because you were coming off of an Achilles tendon tear and they gave you 90 guaranteed. So you're gonna get paid this year. They'll probably trade you and somebody else's quarterback goes down. And you'll get a chance because you'll get, you know, nobody's going to pick up that option and you'll get another contract next year. I just don't lie to us and go like, hey, if I knew that, that Atlanta was going to draft quarterback, I would have stayed in Minnesota. No, you wouldn't, because they weren't going to give you $90 million. Stop lying. Also, NFL players stop lying about, we don't have guaranteed contracts. You do. They're just not all fully guaranteed. And the ones that are fully guaranteed aren't the amounts that you want to read in the paper. That's really it. I don't know, just the, the manipulation or, and, and some of it is, again, this is how any athlete, Kirk Cousins can think that way. Because the the whole world has done me wrong and I proved them wrong time and again is how he's made it. But again, let's not kid ourselves, okay, that he wasn't staying in Minnesota and he was coming off an Achilles tendon tear. And if you think that Minnesota, where he'd had sort of an up and down run there, ended on the up, he was playing really well in that system. But if you think they were going to give him a four year, two year, two years of a guaranteed contract and oh yeah, by the way, when a guy stays, he wants to get paid more, not less. There's no home crown discount in the NFL. I think Kirk Cousins is trying to rewrite history and and get a sympathetic ear. And no one's really sympathetic, not because we don't like him, just because dude, you're still getting paid. You're going to get another contract if you want to do so. Don't tell us that Minnesota was going to keep you when they didn't put that money towards quarterback at all last year. Right? Their GM comes from San Francisco. They want to operate under the San Francisco model as long as they can get as many players with as cheap a quarterback as possible. That's the San Francisco model.

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[Anthony Slater]

This is an Iheart podcast.