Jason McIntyre (8:15)

There are only 32 jobs in the National Football League. 32. Each one of those jobs going to.

Colin Cowherd (8:19)

Pay you above north of somewhere six.

Jason McIntyre (8:21)

$7 million a year. That coach is all over the world.

Colin Cowherd (8:24)

That probably wants to come coach if.

Jason McIntyre (8:25)

They knew how to coach National Football League. This is a covenant job. All 32 of them are coveted jobs in this country and mostly probably in this world. So that right there is not right to even say that now. The Cowboys is as covenant as any other team in the National Football League.

Colin Cowherd (8:44)

So I don't believe that. I think it starts with ownership and the number I see is 82 years old. 7 and 10 and 129 million to DAC and an organization that increasingly last couple of years can't get their first round picks right. The fence is broken. So what I'm about to say you'll. You'll roll your eyes at and that's hurtful. But I've been saying this that you got to be able to see the problems before they get really bad like Dallas. So Mike Tomlin, there was a story out this morning that he's not actually sure what they're going to do at quarterback which I see as progress. Russell Wilson has said I want to be back and, and Mike Tomlin is at least acknowledging it's not all right here.

Jason McIntyre (9:40)

Stuck is kind of a helpless feeling and I don't know that I feel helpless. Definitely doesn't feel in the mood for. For optimism or the selling of optimism.

Colin Cowherd (9:49)

I don't know that that's appropriate.

Jason McIntyre (9:51)

You know it's disappointing not to be working and so that's where we are all Right.

Colin Cowherd (9:57)

So you may not think this is happening, but just hear me out for a couple minutes. Are the Steelers becoming the New York Giants? Who the Steelers would look at now and go, what a mess. Legendary quarterback get you to a couple of Super Bowls. Eli and Big Ben. Family run for generations. Historic franchise, prides itself in stability. And then the quarterback retires and it gets ugly really quick. Now, the Giants winning got ugly really quick. And the Steelers still win more, but their offense is pitiful. Now, to the Steelers credit, they don't run through coaches, but to the Giants credit, they've won a playoff game in the last eight years. And so post Big Ben as the NFL made a massive pivot to offense over the last seven to eight years, they can't get the quarterback right, they can't get the running game right, they can't get the O line right, and they struggle to get the OC right. The one shining light is George Pickens, the wide receiver. But a story came out yesterday that he literally showed up late to a game on Christmas against the Chiefs, and he is regularly late to games. That's your star. No, that's just. That's just called a talented kid. They come and go in this league. That's just a talented kid. That's not a leader. So since 2019, you don't think you're the Giants, but since 2019, in an offensive league where you can't get quarterback, running back, O line, right, the Steelers. And remember, their defense gets them in good field position. Their defense takes the ball away. Their defense gets sacks, making it easier on the offense. In Pittsburgh, they have scored fewer touchdowns in the last five years than the Jags, Raiders, Bears and Browns. The good news though, you're a couple ahead of the Giants, right? You Steeler fan looks at the Giants and goes pitiful. But the Eagles and the Rams and the Ravens and the Chiefs and the top offenses, look at Pittsburgh's offense, which now is what hoist trophies, and they see pitiful. That's what they see. I mean, we all look at Pittsburgh's offense and we all just kind of go, here are the eight teams without a playoff win. Eight teams without a playoff win in the last eight seasons. Steelers, Dolphins, Raiders, Panthers, Cardinals, Broncos, Bears, Jets. You know who's not on that list? The New York Giants. Who you look down at. I do think Tomlin saying, there's quotes here. I don't know if. I don't know if we have the quarterback in the room. That is progress. But, you know, right now I think it's Interesting when franchises that are proud, like Dallas and Pittsburgh, look at the Jags and the Panthers and the jets and the Giants, you do get, you are much closer to that than the Bills, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Lions and the Rams. Adam Silver in 45 minutes joining us today. It is getting very interesting. You know, you can always tell J. Mac, before we brought you on here, I took you out to dinner. Well, Mike McCarthy, when you get dinner, when you, when you share a glass of vino and you chop it up with people for dinner, that usually means something special is happening. Mike McCarthy is having dinner reportedly tonight in Chicago. Wait, was this before I got to fox? Way back to. I don't remember much of your life, but I know the dinner really was your wife and my wife there. Yeah. I think.

Jason McIntyre (13:47)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (13:47)

Yeah. Okay. That was like 2015. Yeah. So, Mike McCarthy, it's dinner, steaks and a glass of wine. Tonight in Chicago feels kind of standard. I do have a quick question. This George Pickens showing up late for a game, it's crazy. I was reading about it. So what happens if I show up, like, I don't know, 25 minutes after the show starts? Well, first of all, could be traffic. It's L. A certainly. And it was Christmas. So you do give a guy a bit of a pass wiggle room. But I think the bigger issue with Pickens is late to practice, late to games on field disruptions. I think it's the classic drip, drip, drip. Now, the faucets broke, so it's not just a moment. People make mistakes. They get in wrecks. They. This is not a dog ate my homework thing yet, but it does when it starts to compound with George Pickens and he is right now the centerpiece of the offense. I mean, again, Jalen Hurts may not be the centerpiece of Philly's offense, but he is reliable. He's a leader. He shows up. So, I mean, the difference in this league often is not just talent. New England's dynasty was built around leadership. And Kansas City's dynasty, they don't have the best team. Philadelphia's got better players. Detroit's got better. It's built around dependable, sustainable leadership. So why then are we hearing after the Steelers get eliminated, Pickens showing up late on Christmas, Mike Tomlin. There were some reports that Mike Tomlin didn't intervene when Arthur Smith and Russell. So, like, all of a sudden there's.

Jason McIntyre (15:17)

This negative flow of stories about Tomlin's leadership.

Colin Cowherd (15:21)

Are they, is somebody trying to shove him out of the well, I would say stories get out when somebody wants them out. So why did the picking story get out? That could be Tomlin's side saying, hey, I'm getting buried here. This is what I had to deal with. Or is it the other side? Hey, this guy's enabling Pickens. They announced the inactive. Well, do you really think the Pickens party would want this out? Well, I think somebody's trying to say.

Jason McIntyre (15:50)

Hey, Tomlin doesn't have control.

Colin Cowherd (15:51)

He didn't have it over Deontay Johnson, Antonio Brown. This is a pattern. And also Arthur Smith and Russell Wilson weren't getting along. That now comes out.

Jason McIntyre (15:58)

That wasn't out there during the season.

Colin Cowherd (16:00)

I'm like, I just wonder if there's some kind of internal issue with Mike Tomlinson over it. Arthur Smith didn't get along with the Ross. Peyton didn't get along with Ross. Pete Carroll at the end was tired of Russ. It's, it's a Russian. I mean, seriously, if you go to three different jobs and you don't get along with people, it's not the people, it's you. Right? Like they always say in a divorce, the one thing that is a constant in a divorce is you. Like you're just bringing you to a new relationship. That's why 75% of second marriages end in divorce. Because you took, you, you thought you were getting rid of the problem. You are the problem. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app. Hi, it's Colin. JLab audio is changing the audio game for good, producing some of the best earbuds and headphones designed for everyday life without breaking the bank. And they are made in the same location as some of the other popular earbuds on the market that are triple the price. Don't overpay for quality headphones and earbuds. I don't. For those looking to conquer their fitness goals in 2025, JLab recommends the JBuds Sport ANC4, offering a secure fit and super long battery life for those tough workouts for small ears, check out the JBuds Mini, so small they fit on your keychain so you're never without headphones. And if you're looking to zone out with a podcast or get in the zone at the office, check out their active noise canceling headphones. It's a true luxury feel. Discover your perfect pair of headphones just like I did and upgrade your audio game today. Look for the JLAB Blue Box at retailers everywhere or visit jlab.com Omaha Steaks is America's original butcher and has been bringing people together with the world's best steak experience for more than 100 years of family owned experience. From handcrafted steaks to hearty roasts, family style sides and quick convenient comfort meals, Omaha Steaks delivers everything you crave to reset and relax after the holidays. And now during their end of season sale, you can taste the difference and get 50% off site wide at Omaha steaks.com plus our listeners get an extra 20 bucks off with a promo code herd at checkout. Omaha Steaks offers unrivaled quality and variety and every bite is backed by their 100% guarantee. They also carry mouthwatering burgers, chicken, pork, seafood, dessert and easy to prepare comfort food. Bring home the world's best steak experience with omaha steaks. Visit omaha steaks.com for 50% off site wide during their end of season sale and for an extra 20 bucks off with a promo code heard at checkout. That's 50% off@omaha steaks.com and for an extra $20 off with a promo code heard at checkout you can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months. Experiencing the news each day can feel like a journey with up first from NPR, though it doesn't have to be. Welcome to 15 Easy Minutes of breaking news, clarity on international and national affairs and a casual tone that you can take in with breakfast. Begin your day informed, ready and refreshed. Begin Your Day with Up First subscribe to Up first from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. So they are rolling out the red carpet for Mike McCarthy and the Bears. I think Mike McCarthy smartly read the tea leaves bailed on Dallas, which I think is devastating potentially for the Cowboys because they can't even now interview the top two coordinator candidates, Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson from Detroit. So they're rolling out the red carpet. Just want you to consider this. The commanders were broken, the Broncos were broken, the chargers were broken. What did they all do? And by the Way the Patriots were broken, they all went and hired experienced head coach. Three of them have made the Super Bowl. Three or four. I know Mike McCarthy ceiling is not Andy Reid, it's not Sean McVay. I get that. But his floor in 18 years, 12 times is, is the playoffs. The Bears currently are not a high ceiling team. Let's just say this, and this is what his resume proves, that Mike McCarthy very quickly stabilizes you and makes you a winning team. I'm not talking 13, 12, 11 wins. You become a winning team. Nine and eight, 10 and seven, and he stabilizes you. And then in four years, you're like, yeah, but we only won one playoff game. We've hit a ceiling. All right? That's the worst case scenario. And then you, as Caleb Williams signs his second contract and his first massive contract, you go get the whiz kid. Then you need stability. I would hire Sully before I go. Top gun Maverick here, Chicago. Okay, you are bad. You can't even line up properly. I saw this morning you were third in the league in false starts and fifth in most illegal formations. You just, you can't even land the plane. Forget about doing circles and Top Gun upstairs, gotta land the plane. So my take is 9 and 8 and 10 and 7 is a great place for Caleb Williams to be going forward. You've been over 500 one time in 12 years. Instead of dumping your net worth into bitcoin, how about you just open a savings account first and get the basics down? Like, not illegal formation four times a game. Yeah, I mean, you're viewing yourself as, hey, we're stable. No, no, no, you're not. This isn't a little turbulence. You're crashing year after year after year. And so again, 12 times in 18 years, three different quarterbacks won. An old legend, one an ascending legend, and one paid like a legend. And you keep getting all of them to the playoffs. 18 years, 12 playoffs. I'm just asking you Bears to upgrade from life support to stable condition. Let's not worry about having perfect abs yet are running a 4:50 mile. Let's just get the stable condition and a better diet. Mike McCarthy is stability and winning and playoffs. And even in four years, if you're like, yeah, I mean, yeah, we win nine and 10 games. Yeah, I'll take that. That's landing the plane. Here's Caleb Williams and I. And I love this, he was on a podcast. Here's Caleb Williams on what he's looking for for the coach.

Jason McIntyre (23:48)

What are some qualities that you'd want your in Your next head coach.

Colin Cowherd (23:50)

Strong minded.

Jason McIntyre (23:55)

A leader of men.

Colin Cowherd (23:56)

Selfishly, I want an office of minded guy so I can build with him.

Jason McIntyre (24:02)

And you know, be with, be with that coach for the next, yeah, 19, 17, 15 years, helping find the right guys to, to, you know, I mean, win championships.

Colin Cowherd (24:12)

That's some, I mean that's the only.

Jason McIntyre (24:13)

Goal that I have or my NFL career.

Colin Cowherd (24:18)

By the way, I kind of like when the star receivers hair matches the team's colors. I don't know, it's just me. I don't know why I like that, but I like that thought. I want a strong leader, you know, I want a guy be cool. If I had an offensive coach, he didn't make a demand. He thought it was really cool if he had an offensive coach. I know y'all think Ben Johnson and Mike McCarthy coach the different sides of the ball. They're both offensive coaches. One has got a very snazzy trick playbook which is much easier to do when you have Jared Goff, the best O line in football, great tight end, great receivers and two great backs. Was Ben Johnson doing that four years ago or did you just learn football? It's much easier. Like Andy Reid. You ever notice this? It's much easier to be tricky when you're great at the basics. Like Chicago's got to get the basics down. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe. No, Rich, wherever you get your podcast and of course on social media. That's Covino and Rich. Hi, it's Colin. JLab audio is changing the audio game for good, producing some of the best earbuds and headphones designed for everyday life without breaking the bank. And they are made in the same location as some of the other popular earbuds on the market that are triple the price. Don't overpay for quality headphones and earbuds. I don't for those looking to conquer their fitness goals in 2025, JLab recommends the JBUD Sport ANC4, offering a secure fit and super long battery life for those tough workouts. For small ears, check out the JBuds Mini. So small they fit on your keychain so you're never without headphones. And if you're looking to zone out with a podcast or get in the zone at the office, check out their active noise canceling headphones. It's a true luxury feel. Discover your perfect pair of headphones just like I did and upgrade your audio game today. Look for the JLab Blue Box at retailers everywhere or visit jlab.com youm can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com Keep and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service report in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Cart has no cash access and expires in six months. Experiencing the news each day can feel like a journey with up first from NPR, though it doesn't have to be. Welcome to 15 Easy Minutes of breaking news, clarity on international and national affairs, and a casual tone that you can take in with breakfast. Begin your day informed, ready and refreshed. Begin your day with Up first subscribe to Up first from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, here we go. It's hour two. Been waiting for this for a long time. Live in Los Angeles, it the herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. You know, I used to have a relationship at the other place with David Stern, the late great commissioner David Stern, who was the boss of Adam Silver. And it was always funny because he would join me during his lunch and he was always eating during the interview, which I made sure he knew that I knew. But the interviews were feisty and fun and. And so I've been looking forward forward to this because the NBA is still incredibly culturally relevant and they just signed contracts with networks for $77 billion. And they do get beat up a lot because, let's be honest, their star players are often bigger than NFL players. So there's a lot to unravel and unpack here. And we bring on Adam Silver, 11 years as the NBA commissioner. So let's start with the good stuff. International expansion, China and Africa. You have a new CBA for seven years. You just signed a massive TV deal. I like the NBA Cup. I'm a distracted consumer. If the court's purple, I know it matters. I like it. I think it works. So there's a lot of good here, more good than bad. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna set this question up because this is something I struggle with. I'm a consumer and I'm distracted. I'm on my phone as much as tv. So I have been watching Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. They feel like burden magic because I am viscerally connected to them via college. This is why studios do sequels. I know the actors. Zach Eady. I really like watching him play. He's having a very nice rookie season, but I know him because Matt Painter and Purdue is a big time program. It would be reductionist to say he's succeeding because he's big. He's succeeding because of what Purdue did. And not only that commissioner, but I got to watch the growth. So I am emotionally committed to Zach. Edie, I think your heart was in the right place with a G league, but it hides players from me that I want to grow with. Is there an argument to be made that college basketball. There's. I feel like it's not. Not that it's marginalized, but it's not as big as it could be. It could be such a microwave for your stars. And the league doesn't see it that way. Is that a fair criticism?

Jason McIntyre (31:19)

I don't think it's a fair criticism because we do see it that way and we're doing everything we can to build college basketball. I mean, let me, let me take a few steps back. Like first of all, in terms of the G League, most of the G League players are either international players who didn't play in college or former college players. In fact, we had a program called Team Ignite. Yes, Condoleezza Rice recommended we create. There was a NCAA commission and you'll recall, pretty collectives and nil money. President Obama criticized us and then the NCAA had a commission and said there should be a track, a pro track into the NBA because it was unfair that the only opportunity for these young players was to play without being paid in college. So we had already had the G League, but then we created this program called Team Ignite where for a select few high school players, if they wanted the opportunity to get, to get paid and then come into the NBA, they could play in that program. But even then we recognized that compared to the facilities, the conditions at the top D1 programs, even though we were paying them and they couldn't have been paid at that point, it was, they were still better off playing at Kentucky or Louisville or Duke or USC or wherever else. And so once the nil and collective money came in, we actually shut down the Team Ignite. We still have the G League and the last thing we want to do is take top prospects who would otherwise be going to school. Take Cooper flag at Duke. We'd rather he be there than be playing in the NBA right now or be playing in the G League. We want those players to develop. So I think there's a misnomer to the extent that you or others feel that we're not supportive of college basketball. Personally, a huge Costco college basketball fan, Charlie Baker, the former governor of Massachusetts who's now head of the ncaa, he and I have been meeting a lot to talk about collectively what we can do to better develop young American players, which clearly has to begin before they get to college, before the NBA. So you know, we are the league of the WNBA too. And so I pay a lot of attention to Caitlin Clark and the star players that are emerging and the WNBA and who are coming from college and when, whether it's angel or Caitlin or Juju now and these players come into the WNBA as, you know, built fully, you know, multi dimensional stars that people are familiar with. Like it was in the old days in the NBA, we Love that. The problem is, like so many things in life, I'm not sure we can turn the clock back on that type of development. I will say it's positive. You know, putting aside, I think there's some issues that need to be addressed in terms of the nil system and the collectives. It seems like nobody's really happy with it right now. In terms of the competitive landscape, I think it's positive that those players are able to be paid. And if they're able to be paid, particularly the players that are on the margin of whether or not they would be lottery picks or first round draft picks, they now have a huge incentive to stay in school because they're not only can get the further development, but they can get paid as well.

Colin Cowherd (34:31)

Here's something that I addressed with David Stern and I'll address it with you too. I think trades are, if you look at the best teams in the NBA right now, Oklahoma City, Cleveland and Boston, they have smart front offices that have drafted and developed well. They can occasionally make a Donovan Mitchell move or Porzingis move or a Drew Holiday, but those teams have drafted and developed well and they're being rewarded for it. You know, Dallas drafted Luka, they can go get Kyrie, but Luke is the star. The NBA gets a little too caught up if you take LeBron out. Let's just take LeBron out. He is the historic outlier. Even Kevin Durant, warriors won before him, warriors won after him, is that I think the league sometimes is too concerned with trades. If Jimmy Butler, who's a good player, maybe not a superstar anymore, went to Oklahoma City, I would want to watch them more. Or Golden State, I would want to that the league sometimes to protect the small markets, let's not worry too much about that. Let's just let players move. Because the sense that it ruins the league or creates a competitive balance outside of LeBron, it really doesn't. Most of the great teams in this league historically have always been draft and develop, build a core and then add, sprinkle in some good players via trades.

Jason McIntyre (35:50)

I don't think it's an accident that we've had six different teams over the last six years that have won championships. And at the end of the day, we sell competition. And I hear you, it sounds like you're making an argument for dynasties to a certain extent that we should do more to allow a great player to go to an already great team or an already very good team. The problem is that it's zero sum. The players are going to go somewhere that's the great news. All the top tier players are going to play in the NBA. And that there is a correlation, it's far from perfect, but there's a correlation between what players make and their performance on the floor. And so what we've done, and I understand your point of view over time is while we have a soft cap system, it's become harder and it has been more difficult once you have a fully loaded team to then add a great player on top of that. And to your point, if Kevin Durant couldn't have gone to Golden State from Oklahoma City when he did, the team he had gone to would have almost by definition, if it weren't already a great team, would have become a great team. And for us, we think that's better league wide in terms of creating more competition. I mean, we're coming off a season last year and it's continued this year or I think we have more competitive teams than any time in league history. And to your point, the fact that, you know, tomorrow night Cleveland and Oklahoma City are playing yet again. Yeah, you know, fantastic buildup for that game. Incredible competition. We just got to remember at the end of the day that's what we're selling. I mean, I think that's part of the reason for the enormous success of the NFL. This any given Sunday notion that nobody thinks twice if you know, the packers are in the Super Bowl. There's no bemoaning that it's a small market whatsoever. And I think our league, it's true that if you look back on the first 60 years of our league, it seemed David Stern joked, you know, when he came into the league, I thought the job was you went back and forth from Boston to LA every year and one of the teams got the rings. You know, and I think the fact that now we're selling competition in every market and that in terms of from a television standpoint too, that, you know, whether it's Oklahoma City, whether it's San Antonio, whether it's Salt Lake City, that those teams are in a position when well managed to compete in the same way the large markets can. And by the way, I mean it's not just money. I mean players choose markets based on, you know, climate, taxes. Sure, some like big cities, some like small cities. Yeah, but, but you know, I think on balance this is a much better system for a 30 team league.

Colin Cowherd (38:28)

I want to throw this at you. I, I said this the other day about, about the aesthetic of the NBA. It's a bit homogenous, a little cookie cutter And I said, listen, I don't mind three pointers, but if the NFL was just, you could run the ball and throw bombs, no layering, no drag routes, no tight end screen, it was just run it or bombs optically, it's not as fascinating. And I love the three pointer. But like, and you know this, you're a pretty progressive thinker. I think athletes are better. Wemby can pull up and cross you over on a dribble and shoot. They couldn't do that 10 years ago. And the truth is, because your players are so gifted and it's such a global pool, the three pointer is too easy. And I have simply said I would put the three pointer, I would go have it, go into the bench about six feet up, eliminate the corner, I'd bring back the hand check. I do like physicality. Your athletes are so great. It's become too easy to hit it. And the, the optics on it are repetitive. I think there's numbers, ratings that prove people are they, they like layers and power forwards and physicality and not just dunks and threes. What do you do to solve that? Because I think you've engaged with people and acknowledged it can be a bit repetitive. It is a bit of an issue. What do we do to change it?

Jason McIntyre (39:54)

The hardest question is the last one you asked. What do we do to change it? I agree to the extent that you start to see very similar offenses around the league. You know, teams have brands, teams have identity. You know, Joe Dumars is a colleague now at the league office. The bad boys, et cetera. You know, I think, you know, the Showtime Lakers. So I recognize that to the extent that offenses start to look very similar, we lose that. At the same time, the league is going through a transformation, just as you said. Players like Victor Wembanyama, players like, you know, Jokic are doing things Big Ben never did historically. I mean, it wasn't that long ago. Colin, you'll remember that conversations you had with David Stern. We would bemoan the lack of skill among some players that, you know, there, there was a sense, there was too much physicality.

Colin Cowherd (40:45)

Yes.

Jason McIntyre (40:45)

That the play under the bath, you know, that, that you would have, you know, the Hacker Shack era, you know, there were big men that just couldn't shoot free throws. There are no big men anymore who can't shoot free throws. Just as one comparable from generation to generation have never been higher. So I think we just got to be careful. Like the one thing on do is I don't want to sort of knee jerk move the three point line. We're sort of going through a process now, seeing how these players are adapting to the new rules and figuring out if whatever changes we should make. I mean, be honest, I wish it were as simple as just moving the three point line back because then we would just do it. I mean, part of the concern from the basketball folks is that if you move the three point line back, you'll end up sort of just clogging up, you know, the sort of the area under the basket. And that's not such attractive basketball either. I think this is doable. I think we, by examining the game and sort of seeing where it's going, I mean, it frustrates me a little as well because it's obviously you're representative of how, what a fair number of people are saying about the game. And I watch it night in, night out and we're seeing some of the most incredible athleticism and skill in the history of this league. Again, Victor Wembanyama. But I think you're also saying too that if we move the three point line back and what we ended up with was Victor Wembanyama standing under the basket the whole time and just waiting to dunk, that wouldn't be interesting either.

Colin Cowherd (42:12)

Right, right.

Jason McIntyre (42:13)

So, you know, one, I assure you we are on it. I think it's a very fixable issue. I mean, it's, you know, we've gone from, I mean, I always tell the story like Bob Cousy, who I don't know, he's around 95 years old, still stays in touch with me and he'll call me after watching a game and say, I'm so frustrated because the commentators think that what these players are doing, let's say from 28ft or 30ft and seemingly just flicking the ball up with their wrists and swishing these three pointers, that somehow that's easy. He said the skill level is incredible. But he'll also say, you know, I think we all want to see diversity in the offenses. But by the way, one other thing I'll just throw in. I don't think the players are getting enough credit for playing the style of defense they're playing now as well. So it's an incredible game. I know you love the game. It's, you know, the number one participation sport in the United States. You mentioned Caitlin Clark. It's incredible to see what the women are now doing on the floor and the amount of young girls who are playing this game. So as stewards of the game, you know, Joe Dumars leads Our competition committee here, you know, we will tweak it, we will correct those issues.

Colin Cowherd (43:21)

So years ago I had President Barack Obama on a couple times and one of the things I offered him, I said, you're the first president in my life that's had to deal with social media and the vile nature of it. It may not change policy, but does it change the discussions in the briefing rooms before you go out? Does it change the way perhaps you think of policy because we're in a tribal nation, it's very loud. So along those lines, I love George Brett as a baseball player. As a kid, Kansas City Royals, George Brett often missed 30 games in a season. Nobody thought it was load management. Right. We live in a different time. Platforms call it out and tickets are more expensive. So it does bother me. I'm a small town kid. I went once a year to see downtown Freddie Brown, Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sigma. If they didn't play, that was the game I got. And I can see that little kid in Milwaukee, middle class family go, and Giannis could play, but he doesn't. Is it a bigger pro? I think it's a problem. Do you view it as being sort of platformed up by loud voices or does the league look at this and think, you know, our middle class fans, they go to one game a year, they're not corporate stewards and that they want to go and see their stars play? I think it's serious. Do you in the league think it is a problem that is something you want to solve?

Jason McIntyre (44:44)

We so much think it's a problem that in the last collective bargaining agreement, you may recall, we added some provisions to further incentivize players to play as many games as they possibly can by making them ineligible for certain awards, certain benefits if they fall below a certain level of games. Having said that, to your point, you know, and I'm never going to shoot the messenger in terms of whether it's social media or the media, it's a real issue. And how can you know for that family for that one time that they're going to go see the Bucks or the Lakers or the Knicks or whatever else? I completely understand their point of view. The problem is as much as we are an 82 game, Lee, I mean, take LeBron for example.

Colin Cowherd (45:29)

Okay.

Jason McIntyre (45:30)

LeBron has missed, I think three games so far this season. Yeah, he's 40 years old. He has the most minutes in NBA history and he's missed, I think three out of, let's say, 37 games so far. I think that's incredible. Now, for the family that went to the Laker game of one of those three games, I understand their disappointment and I know he does as well. You know, it's with a season as long as we have, by the way, and whether, whether it's because load management or an injury, it's still the same impact on that family. And all I can say is we've worked with our teams, we're working a lot on the science. I think, incidentally, you don't hear load management so much around the league anymore because I think we've dispelled that notion that it's somehow through some analytics or a computer program that on November 12th you can make a decision that a player should sit out on December 20, which is what was going on in the league. And in fact, my understanding, at least at the data that's come in so far, it may even be the case that some of the early season injuries are caused by players not having enough load. Because even though.

Colin Cowherd (46:45)

Thank you, thank you again.

Jason McIntyre (46:47)

You know, it's fascinating. Like when I got to the league a little over 30 years ago, a lot of players would take the month of August and like literally go fishing. You know, they would chill out and they would, they would like eat a little bit more, gain a little bit of weight. They'd come into training camp and that's when you got back into shape and you'd lose those pounds and you'd play your way and train and practice back into game shape. Now there's not, there's hardly a player in the league that isn't working out every single day. Guys even go to the finals, they take a day off, they're back on the floor. But often it's specialized one on one training, it's weight room work, whatever it is. It's not five on five basketball because. And a lot of it, in fairness, these players, and that's what frustrates me too, because they don't take a day off. They're some of the hardest working athletes out there. But then they have it in their head that they're more likely to get injured if they're playing five on five basketball. So, yeah, right. So then they come back into training camp and it's still not necessarily five on five. There's the preseason again, minutes are limited. Then boom, the regular season comes and at least I can't say it's perfect. I know it's causation yet, but there's certainly correlation early in the season that you see those guys and it's interesting. It used to be. We would hear from teams that you're going to injure our players if they play for USA Basketball, the US national team, the Olympic team, or the national teams, you know, from the countries they're from. In fact, it's the opposite. We have fewer injuries and maybe not surprisingly from the guys who participate in competition over the summer because the load is maintained. They're not overdoing it, you know, I mean, but you know, they come back and there's that the consistency of the load, you know, throughout the off season. So I think this is an area too where better data, you know, AI is changing everything, where we're going to be in a position, I think, where we can convince the teams and convince the players that actually playing is in their interest. But unfortunately, we're never going to be able to completely solve that issue for that family that comes to that game and is disappointed. I will say just lastly, it maybe speaks a little bit to the data that were coming off last year. In the entire history of the NBA, it was our highest attendance and I'm sure, I mean, I read that market, no doubt the highest ticket prices too. So I will say, yes, there are fans disappointed, but people love the NBA experience. They love going to the games. I understand when there's a particular star you're interested, but also we've never been deeper in terms of the talent too. 450 players in the league.

Colin Cowherd (49:31)

Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple quick ones because I know you're a busy guy, much busier than me, and these can require shorter answers. So one of the. The iPhone has changed everything. Our society is more caffeinated, more distracted and more frenetic. Hockey, regular season, baseball, regular season, NBA regular season. It's just harder to get ratings events. UFC on Saturday, college football, NFL Olympics, World cup events get excellent ratings. It's not necessarily the fault of a league if there's a decline in Monday through Friday. And as I look and read stories about the decline of ratings, my take is it's an iPhone issue. It's not baseball. Until Ohtani and the Dodgers put up basically the best, most talented team ever. The Dodgers had great ratings. Is that. Can you just. Is it just possible that, hey, we have contracts that limit the number of games we can be reduced to. We don't want to make one and done like college basketball. Is that your regular season ratings? They don't matter that much because I just saw your new TV deals and that the media makes a bigger deal of. The truth is we're good when it matters in May and June. And that's just a new world.

Jason McIntyre (50:40)

Yeah, you asked me to answer shorter, so I'll try to be. There's so there's so much that could be said on this. So first of all, this season, just to set the record straight, we're up about 4% on ESPN and ABC. If you add TNT into the mix, we're down slightly 3 or 4% for the season. That's our rating story so far. We're coming off last season where it was our highest regular season ratings in four years. But the issue is, especially for a sport like the NBA where we have a very young fan base, young men, young women, cable, as you know, and I'm sure it has an impact on your show as well, that since you last interviewed me, you know, five plus years, there's been yet another dramatic increase in the number of people who subscribe, I'll call it traditional television, cable, satellite television, or who watch traditional television. So much so that from a decade ago, it's like 50% fewer people watch traditional television. In fact, last year the lines crossed. More people are now watching programming on streaming services than they are through legacy conventional television. So back to the iPhone. So those deals you talked about that we just entered into for next year. Part of the reason, I believe, in addition to the sport itself, that we're able to provide so much value is every one of those new partners, Disney and espn, NBC Universal, Peacock and of course Amazon, provide their games through streaming. Maybe in the case of NBC, it's also broadcast, or Disney, ABC and espn. But every single game beginning next season is going to be available on a streaming service and then, you know, burden on or onus on us then that we know now there's the opportunity to watch this programming on those screens, on those TVs they carry everywhere they go. But I think as a result, we have to up our game too. So they're adding more games of consequences, the colored floors you joked about before for the NBA Cup. So that gets people's attention. But beyond that, the really exciting thing to me about moving to streaming services, which are in essence Internet television, you can add all kinds of incredible functionality, customization, personalization. People want to bet on games, they can do it. People want to buy merchandise, they're fascinated with a particular camera angle or they want an audio feed that that is directed at hardcore fans or casual fans. So I think, and this isn't just the case for the NBA, I think for all the leagues, that the competition is that much greater than it used to be. And so we have to do a better job engaging our fans in these games.

Colin Cowherd (53:31)

Okay. I promise. I know your PR people are probably saying, get coward out of here.

Jason McIntyre (53:35)

Ignore them.

Colin Cowherd (53:37)

Thank you. Okay, there's another one. So this really bothers Jason McIntyre. I think he really has been on this for two years. He's been very publicly critical of Barkley banging on the league. And my take is, I'll cut to the chase. Have you ever called that show's executives or Charles and said, charles, could you. Could you not beat down on us every night? That there are those that believe it takes a negative tact or tone on a fairly consistent basis. I don't think it affects the ratings. I think they're entertainment show, but I don't see the research you do. Have you contacted them at one point, said, you guys are a little negative?

Jason McIntyre (54:21)

Never, ever, ever. And the only contact I've ever had with them, and it would have been with Ernie, is occasionally Ernie and I will talk and he'll say, we're going to be discussing some aspect of the salary cap or, you know, the cba. And it'll like, just give me a primer on what the rules are so that if somebody says something that is factually wrong, I'm in a position to correct them. But so that's just on facts, never on opinion. And I'll go one step further. I mean, as you know, you know, we didn't continue our relationship with Turner Sports that produces inside the NBA.

Colin Cowherd (54:58)

Right.

Jason McIntyre (54:59)

But we just got a deal done with ESPN and Turner Sports to move that very show to ESPN and abc.

Colin Cowherd (55:06)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (55:07)

And I'll go a step further. And I love Jason, by the way. Jason, thank you for being a fan. That I think in this case they are unique. I think sometimes others who are more critical, I won't say names, but will get our equivalent of viewer male. And people say, why is this guy commentating or announcing on the NBA when it seems that he doesn't even like the league? And I think that's a fair point. If you think somebody's that negative. Yeah. And to me, there's always a tradition in the NFL where almost all the announcers, to me, seem to celebrate the game.

Colin Cowherd (55:42)

Yeah.

Jason McIntyre (55:43)

In the case of that panel, Charles, Kenny, Shaq, of course, Ernie. I always have the sense that when they are critical, it's your uncle at the Thanksgiving Day table. You know, it's. It's the family. They have the credibility. Because I also hear. I don't call them, but I hear from players in the league or teams in the league or say, ah, like they're our partner, like why are they saying those things? And I think Charles is special. By the way, there's a reason that show has won close to, I think, two dozen Emmys. And so I think it generates more interest in the league. And to the extent that next year that show will be featured on ESPN and ABC and more people will have the opportunity to see it, I think that's very positive for the league.

Colin Cowherd (56:32)

Well, this was fun and I do appreciate you not eating during the interview because I love David, but it was a tuna sandwich every time he came on with me. And what's his favorite? Yeah, I found that I discovered that over several years. A real pleasure. If you're ever in la, I'd love to have you. I think this kind of stuff is important. I like to poke and prod and I just appreciate you answering the questions.

Jason McIntyre (56:54)

Yeah, Colin. And I wish I had asked this at the top of the interview. How are you guys doing with everything that's going on out there?

Colin Cowherd (56:59)

I gotta tell you, it's the most devastating thing I've ever seen. Los Angeles as you know, is a community with a very diverse community. People come here and chase their dreams and it feels like a lot of dreams have been shattered by a lot of really great people in a lot of industries. But I have seen giving at a level that is heartwarming from outside Los Angeles. And in Los Angeles, people have opened their doors. Very encouraging by citizens of Los Angeles.

Jason McIntyre (57:30)

Yeah, I'll just say, you know, I was just with some of the Lakers and Clippers executives at some meetings. And first of all, I think, you know, the Clippers at the Intuit Dome are going to do, you know, a huge concert with the Azol family money. You know, in addition, you know, I've been on the phone with JJ Redick, of course, he lost his house. He was explaining to me how the community center, the rec center where his son was playing, burns the ground. So the league is going to come up with a program with the Lakers and Clippers to help rebuild the community. So, you know, again, the images are just horrific that we're seeing from East Coast. I'm very sorry.

Colin Cowherd (58:04)

Yeah, terrifying. But there's a lot of really good people in this state, in the city. Adam Silver, the Commissioner of the NBA, who presides, by the way, over five different sport leagues, sports leagues, NBA, WNBA, G League, NBA, 2K basketball, African League. Thank you so much for taking time for us. You, I told before this show, I said, listen, do we, can I get 18 minutes? You gave us 29. I am indebted and thank you so much.

Jason McIntyre (58:29)

Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you.

Colin Cowherd (58:30)

All right, J. Mack, I waited to the end to ask the question about Charles Barkley. I kept watching you, but I did ask that question. Adam Silver, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes me want to eat. And this football season, UberEats has the best deals for me on game day food, no matter what I'm craving from two for one pizza to buy one, get one Wings. Uber Eats. We'll be dropping new deals each week all season long. I'm in Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. Experiencing the news each day can feel like a journey with up first from NPR, though it doesn't have to be. Welcome to 15 Easy Minutes of breaking news, clarity on international and national affairs, and a casual tone that you can take in with breakfast. Begin your day informed, ready and refreshed. Begin your day with Up first. Subscribe to Up first from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our Ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend Jon Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to the Daily Show Ears of D edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up everybody? Adnan Burke here to tell you about a new podcast. It's NHL Unscripted with Verkin Demers, Jason Demers here.

Jason McIntyre (60:13)

And after playing 700 NHL games, I.

Colin Cowherd (60:15)

Got a lot of dirty laundry to air out. Hey, I got a lot to say here too, okay? Each week we'll get together, chat with the sport that we love.

Jason McIntyre (60:21)

Tons of guests are going to join in too.

Colin Cowherd (60:23)

But we're not just gonna be talking hockey, folks, folks.

Jason McIntyre (60:25)

We're talking movies, we're talking tv, food.

Colin Cowherd (60:27)

And Adnan's favorite wrestling.

Jason McIntyre (60:29)

It's all on Le table.

Colin Cowherd (60:31)

Listen to NHL Unscripted with Virgin Demers, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.