Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – "Best of The Herd" Release Date: June 11, 2025

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1. Aaron Rodgers' Transition to the Pittsburgh Steelers

Timestamp: 03:12

Jason McIntyre kicks off the episode by delving into the recent move of NFL superstar Aaron Rodgers to the Pittsburgh Steelers. He reflects on his past critiques of Rodgers' performance, emphasizing that his concerns remain unchanged despite Rodgers' new environment.

Jason McIntyre [03:37]: "I think he'll be fine. I think he'll miss a couple games. I think he'll go, you know, 8 and 9, 9 and 8, that's fine."

McIntyre analyzes the historical success of veteran quarterbacks transitioning to new teams, categorizing them into two groups: successful and less successful. He cites examples like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning as quarterbacks who flourished post-transition, while others like Aaron Rodgers with the Jets and Russell Wilson in Denver faced challenges.

Jason McIntyre [06:01]: "It’s pretty clear it’s going to be pretty bumpy... Arthur Smith, the coordinator, six years in the NFL, three as a head coach, three as a coordinator, one top 10 offense, and the other five bad, ugly, ineffective."

Jason critiques the Steelers' coaching strategy, suggesting that pairing an aging quarterback like Rodgers with a defensive-minded coach like Arthur Smith may lead to turbulence within the team dynamics.

2. USA Men's National Soccer Team Performance and Challenges

Timestamp: 08:23

Transitioning from football to soccer, Jason and guest Alexi Lawless express deep concerns over the U.S. Men's National Team's (USMNT) dismal performance. Jason highlights the team's poor track record against European opponents, pointing out a series of losses, including a particularly humiliating 4-0 defeat to Switzerland.

Jason McIntyre [11:45]: "It's time once again for Uncle Collins twice annual USA Soccer reality check. Our talent pool. It's interesting. It's the most interesting it's ever been, but it is a really shallow pool."

Alexi Lawless adds that the team's reliance on younger, less experienced MLS players has exposed the depth—or lack thereof—in the USMNT's talent pool. He criticizes the current coaching strategies under Mauricio Pochettino, arguing that the limited pool of players leads to inconsistent performances on the international stage.

Alexi Lawless [14:15]: "The truth is right now, this is A team, the U.S. men's National Team, that is looked upon with criticism. There is plenty of angst associated with it."

3. Impact of Star Players' Absence

Timestamp: 12:40

The conversation shifts to the absence of key players like Christian Pulisic and Sergino Dest due to their rigorous European schedules. Jason questions whether Pulisic's decision to rest reflects deeper issues with the new coaching staff or his own fatigue.

Jason McIntyre [38:16]: "When Pulisic decided not to play now, I would defend him in that he's played 50 match seasons with AC Milan. That's rigorous soccer."

Alexi agrees, suggesting that while Pulisic's decision to rest is understandable, it sends a concerning message about player-coach relationships and the overall direction of the team.

Alexi Lawless [39:05]: "I do think that he generally thinks that he is fatigued and he generally thinks that this is going to help him."

4. Coaching Changes in the New York Knicks

Timestamp: 27:14

Shifting gears to basketball, Jason discusses the New York Knicks' ongoing coaching saga. He criticizes the team's inability to secure interviews with top coaching candidates like Jason Kidd, highlighting the Knicks' leadership under James Dolan as impulsive and lacking a clear plan.

Jason McIntyre [26:29]: "So the top three candidates, high profile, successful coaches. Nope, nope, nope."

Alexi Lawless chimes in, emphasizing that the Knicks' frequent coaching changes disrupt team culture and long-term planning.

Alexi Lawless [36:30]: "This has been an abject failure and certainly over the last couple of games, ultimately he will be judged by the Gold Cup."

5. The Significance of the Gold Cup

Timestamp: 40:31

Back to soccer, the importance of the upcoming Gold Cup is discussed as a pivotal moment for the USMNT to rebuild and regain momentum ahead of the World Cup scheduled for the following year. While both hosts express skepticism about the team's chances, they agree that strong performances in the Gold Cup could spark necessary improvements.

Alexi Lawless [41:44]: "I hope that it does light a fire under their asses and they bring it when it comes to the Gold cup and then obviously for the next year and then that magic happens next summer."

Jason adds that despite the current struggles, there remains hope that the team can leverage the Gold Cup to address their deficiencies and build a more resilient squad for the future.

Jason McIntyre [34:34]: "So, so last night was simply a wake up call. And it was, it was something that he [Pochettino] needed."

6. Concluding Insights

Timestamp: 42:02

As the episode wraps up, Jason reiterates the critical state of both the USMNT and the Knicks, underscoring the need for strategic leadership and talent development. Alexi concludes with a call for greater unity and focus within the USMNT to harness their diverse talent pool effectively.

Alexi Lawless [38:16]: "We have to get ourselves in order. We on the field and to a certain extent, off the field. Because this is coming down the pike and it is coming fast."

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Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre [03:37]: "I think it's pretty clear it's going to be pretty bumpy..."
• Aaron Rodgers [07:56]: "I don't need it to keep playing. A lot of decisions that I've made over my career..."
• Alexi Lawless [14:15]: "The truth is right now, this is A team..."
• Alexi Lawless [41:44]: "I hope that it does light a fire under their asses and they bring it when it comes to the Gold cup..."

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Conclusion

"The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Best of The Herd" episode provides a critical examination of key sports narratives, focusing on the challenges faced by both the Pittsburgh Steelers with their new quarterback Aaron Rodgers and the US Men's National Soccer Team grappling with poor performances and leadership issues. Coupled with insights into the New York Knicks' coaching turmoil, the episode emphasizes the importance of strategic leadership, talent management, and resilience in overcoming sports-related adversities.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Jason McIntyre]

Weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon.

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To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on.

[Jason McIntyre]

The iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. This is the best of the Herd.

[Alexi Lawless]

With Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[Jason McIntyre]

Here we go. Good show today. Sean McVay of the Rams, Alexi Lawless. We're in Chicago. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day, J. Mac. I know your affinity and my affinity for soccer. I'll get to that in five minutes. An absolute disaster for the United States men's national team. Do not downplay it. It is a disaster. It is rock bottom and we continue to grab a shovel. Big, really, really bad. I want to start, though. I think people sometimes think I have something against Aaron Rodgers and I. I just don't care. Yeah. Do I think I was the first media person like nine, 10 years ago to talk about his body language and how he was increasingly playing safe and it was too caught up in his passer rating and, and, and passive aggressive? Yeah, I did and I was right. But that's not going to affect my opinion about Pittsburgh. I think he'll be fine. I think he'll miss a couple games. I think he'll go, you know, 8 and 9, 9 and 8, that's fine. But instead of that, let's just look at history of top older star quarterbacks past their prime when they have gone to a new environment. There's nine that come to mind. I'm not talking Andy Dalton or Joe Flacco or Nick Foles. I'm talking stars like Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers. So there's nine that I would in recent history. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Matthew Stafford. Philip Rivers went to Indy, had a great year. Aaron Rodgers with the Jets, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton again. So how did it work out for those nine? Well, let's put them in two camps, one being successful. Brady won a Super Bowl, Stafford won a Super Bowl, Peyton Manning won a Super bowl. And Philip Rivers, I'll argue this all day, had a great year in indy. He was 11 and 5. 97 passer rating. That road playoff game against Buffalo where he threw for over 300 yards, two touchdowns, no picks. He was great. I mean, Philip Rivers had a shockingly good year his last year in the NFL in Indianapolis. And if you. And then you have the other camp, the less successful camp, and that would include obviously Aaron Rodgers with the Jets And Russell in Denver and Kirk Cousins in Atlanta and Matt Ryan with the Colts and Cam Newton with Belichick in New England. What's the common threat? What's the truth? The truth is, if you have a defensive coach, as an old quarterback, past your prime or an inexperienced coach, it's going to be turbulent. It's not going to be pretty. And the reason being older quarterbacks, they. They need fit. They can't just bulldoze or overwhelm you with talent. Aaron Rodgers in his prime or Cam Newton in their prime, they could be off on their mechanics.

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[Jason McIntyre]

They could miss a read. It just, it just. They're like human erasers once you get older. Fit matters. Stafford needed. He needed McVeigh. Brady sought out Bruce Arians. Peyton Manning had some success early with John Fox, won a Super bowl with Gary Kubiak, and then Philip Rivers had Frank Reich. Now Matt Ryan's tough because Matt. Matt also had Frank, but Matt was really done as a. As a quarterback. But if you start looking at it, it's pretty clear that the Steelers lost their left tackle, their star back, their best receiver, and are completely tone deaf on offense. This is going to be hard. This is a defensive coacher and a defensive head coach. That's what it is. And by the way, Arthur smith, the coordinator, six years in the NFL, three as a head coach, three as a coordinator, one top 10 offense, and the other five bad, ugly, ineffective. So if you want to teach an old dog new tricks, you need Cesar Milan, you need a. You need an emotional behavior expert. And that is not what Pittsburgh is. That's why I think older quarterbacks, Peyton Manning, when he got Kubiak or Stafford got McVeigh. And even though Arians and Brady had their fights, they came out after the bye week and Tampa didn't lose again for the rest of the year. Offensive coaches have a feel for offensive lines, the playbook. I mean, Brady has largely admitted they kind of laughed at Belichick's lack of knowledge about offense. That's not a shot at Mike Tomlin. It's a reality with defensive coaches. So I think it's pretty clear it's going to be pretty bumpy. I think I'm doing Aaron a solid saying 9 and 8. My guess is it could be 7 and 10. I think he will miss a couple of starts. They have a great center, but I don't trust their O line. Arthur Smith, Mike Tomlin, they've got a rookie running back they're crossing their fingers on, and here's why. Aaron Chose the Steelers for my ego.

[Aaron Rodgers]

I don't need it to keep playing. A lot of decisions that I've made over my career in life from strictly the ego, even if they turn out well, are always unfulfilling. But the decisions made from the soul are usually pretty fulfilling. So this was a decision that was best for my soul. And I felt like being here with Coach T and the guys that got here and the opportunity here was the best for me and. And I'm excited to be here.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Speaking of soul, or lack thereof, the United States men's national team is one year from the World cup on US soil. And starting this weekend, they have the Gold cup, which matters. It's something especially when you have a new coach. And oh, do we love to blame the coach and never the players. In USA Soccer, last night was as bad as it gets. Forget the fact that we have not beaten a European team since 2021. 0 and 7. 0 and 8, something like that. Last night we gave up four goals to Switzerland in 23 minutes. The most humiliating loss ever. And that's not a shot. That's not a shot at Switzerland. Okay, great soccer country. That was embarrassing. Four goals conceded in 23 minutes. A year ago in the World cup, we only didn't. We allowed like one goal in the group stage. Held England scoreless. In the World cup was a year or two ago. Held England scoreless. So, hey, that guy Greg Berlter doesn't know what he's doing. He's not getting the most out of our highly skilled players. Burhalter is out of here. And then Jurgen Klinsman, he was a bomb. And then Bob Bradley's no good. And Bruce Arena. So they bring in Mauricio Pocketino from Europe, Tottenham. He's great with young players. He is, I'm told he is unbelievable with young players. So last night he played a lot of those young players and it was the most humiliating loss I can ever remember for nothing. 23 minutes. So it's time once again for Uncle Collins twice annual USA Soccer reality check. Our talent pool. It's interesting. It's the most interesting it's ever been, but it is a really shallow pool. And last night, because our best players like Christian Pulisic, who's played in AC Milan last couple of years and like really difficult 50 game, 50 match schedules, he's taken a breather. And Sergino Dest is taking a breather. He's a European player too. Tyler Adams is injured. Weston McKinney beat up a little bit he's taken a breather. So there's. There's an argument. Those are four of our best players. So instead we played six MLS guys. And Mauricio Pochettino is discovering we are very much in the kiddie pool, the shallow end. If we don't have our first 11 in our best 11, we don't have much. Now we got six or seven guys playing in Europe, and that's more than we've ever had. But countries like Switzerland and the top teams can often have double that. And you just time and time again, I don't want to hear about our best athletes play other sports. They do. But when Christian Pulisic is out, our creativity, our scoring, our imagination, our easily most skilled player is out. I'm sorry, it's the Cavs. Without LeBron several years ago, we are not the same. So, I mean, it's obvious that America is lacking highly skilled laborers in tech, science and in soccer. But last night was a reminder that if you take Pulisic out and our top four or five guys are not playing injury, little load. Management need a rest. After a rigorous European schedule, we don't have much. It's mls. It is just a bunch of nonsense. Because this coach, he's the guy, he knows young talent, he develops young talent. Really? 4 goals, 23 minutes. Really. So go ahead. You blamed Bruce Arena, Bob Bradley, I mean, Greg Burholter, I thought did an unbelievable job. You go to the World cup stage, we allow one goal. We have always historically been about defense. Great goalies and good defense. Because we don't have as many skilled players. We just don't. I know it hurts. We don't. We got about five, maybe three last night. None. Here's a member of the losing squad. After the game, it's really easy to.

[Aaron Rodgers]

Look at one game, one half and be like, oh, this is all going to pieces. They can't come back from this. But you look even build up to 20, 22, you take down Morocco 30 and they make it to the semifinal like things change. That's six months apart. So it's not the end of the world. We accept that it's not good enough and we realize that. And so that' where. That's where the disappointment comes in. But at the same time, like, we have to flip the script. We gotta make sure that we do not come out like that ever again, especially as we enter any Gold Cup.

[Jason McIntyre]

Mauricio Pochettino four game losing streak. Bob Bradley didn't do that. Jurgen Kleinsman didn't have that Greg Burholzer didn't have that. I think it's a reality check. And this European coach who was great in Tottenham, I think he got him to a runner up. Just, he's very known as very aggressive, very attacking and great with young players. We don't have the players that we can attack. If Pulisic, Weston, McKinney and Sergino Dest are not there, we can't do that. We just don't have the talent pool. I do not think the sky is falling. I do not think it's falling, but let's just say the roof needs repair. J. Mac, you're laughing. You are laughing. Go ahead.

[Unknown Guest]

I don't want to say the sky's falling. Let me just trash USA Soccer for five minutes. Listen, you could argue they started four guys who won't even be on the World cup roster next year. So I, I, obviously, the optics are terrible. I'm on a soccer text chain with like 20 guys, and they were just, you know, hammering the U.S. it was kind of a gutless performance.

[Jason McIntyre]

It's one thing again. It is one thing to lose, but to give up four goals, concede four goals in 23 minutes, you're not ready to play. Yeah, you are. That is hard to do. In hockey and soccer, that doesn't happen much.

[Unknown Guest]

It's okay. We're going to be fine. We're going to go win the Gold cup, and then we're going to go to, like, the quarterfinals or semifinals of the World cup in one year.

[Jason McIntyre]

Don't.

[Unknown Guest]

It's going to be fine. Everything's fine.

[Jason McIntyre]

Our soccer schedule at the Gold Cup, Trinidad and Tobago, judging by last night. That's a coin flip. No, stop it. Saudi Arabia and Haiti, we're going three, zero.

[Unknown Guest]

Probably outscoring them, like, seven to one. Just mark that down.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay. Seven goals. Okay.

[Unknown Guest]

We're gonna be fine, Colin. It's okay.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app.

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[Jason McIntyre]

Welcome back. So, actually a lot of stuff today. Alexi Lawless is going to come in later. Mauricio Pochettino is the coach of USA Men's soccer last night and they are in a free fall. Four straight losses. Haven't beaten a European team since 2021. And again, a lot of their players played in these kind of rigorous, intense European schedules. So some of them are taking time off. I get it. But the Gold cup always felt like it mattered to me. Maybe it doesn't anymore, but six MLS players among the starters last night got routed. I mean, it was just awful. So we'll talk about that. I thought this was problematic and this is every New York Knicks worse fear coming to fruition. So yesterday IME Adoku is a great coach, was with the Celtics for personal reasons, inappropriate behavior, got fired, went to Houston, very good coach. The Knicks wanted to interview him since they fired Tibbs and the Rockets said no. They denied the Knicks even an interview. Well, we all know Chris Finch is great. He's with Minnesota. Let's get him. And the T Wolves denied the Knicks an interview. That's over two. The Mavericks. Now according to Shams, the Dallas Mavericks have told the Knicks nope, you're not. You don't get an interview with Jason Kidd. So the top three candidates, high profile, successful coaches. Nope, nope, nope. Okay, so does this mean that the at times very impulsive, highly emotional James Dolan had no plan? So I said this yesterday. Dolan has always seen himself as an artist. He's in a band, MGM Entertainment. One of his best friends is Irving Asoff, who used to own a record label. A wildly successful marketer, manager and promoter of talent. And it was still one of his best friends, I believe. And, and that's okay that Dolan sees him. That's why I went to Vegas and created the sphere. Rock stars are among his friends. But as we know, with artists, sometimes they can be impulsive and they can be emotional. And James Dolan always loves the company of stars. And whether it's Phil Jackson as a gm, well, it was kind of. Jerry west was kind of running the GM part. Let's get Amari Stoudemire with bad knees. That's always been James Dolan impulsive. So when he went and built the spheres for a couple of years, he was removed. I'm not saying he's not a smart guy, but he is more artist than accountant. And my take is now he's back in the fold. And there was a. According to reports, he listened to his players, his stars, and his stars grumbled about Tibs, who practices him hard, who plays him a lot of minutes. And he acquiesced to his star players. And now they don't have a coach in the top three candidates. He can't interview him. So when, when he was gone for a couple years, I had said this multiple times and I did not consider it a shot at James Dolan. It was a reality. He was distracted in Vegas with a Sphere, a magical musical entertainment mecca. It's nothing like it in the world. Never been, but it's supposed to be amazing. And all I'm saying is, did he act impulsively? Because when he was not there, they were pragmatic, they were patient, they had a plan. And firing Tibbs, it's not the same. He was the culture. So you just fired the culture. And that, not sheer talent, is why you were so interesting and captivating and good for two years. It just feels very impulsive to me. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports radio every day, 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything honestly, because this guy is over promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubberlip.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Well, you know what it's called? Over Promise. You should be good at it because you've been over promising women for years. Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show. And we want you to be a part of it. We're gonna be talking sports, of course, but we're also gonna talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised. Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promise and also uncensored by the way, so maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Over Promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely. Join us Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Jason McIntyre]

So I I you know, you know this that last year was a great not this past draft, the one before was a great draft. Most of those quarterbacks went to the NFC. Jaden Daniels, Michael Penix, JJ McCarthy, Caleb Williams, Bo Nix went to the AFC. But the reason the AFC has been better than the NFC, not necessarily just the super bowl but but overall is because the AFC for about a seven year stretch kept hitting on quarterbacks. And you know C.J. stroud and Herbert and Burrow and Mahomes and Allen, they just kept hitting and hitting and hitting on him. So if the young NFC quarterbacks like Jaden Daniels and Caleb and Panix, if they can hit in that draft a couple years ago, it'll even things out. But right now the best quarterbacks in football are overwhelmingly in the afc. So now as Aaron Rodgers goes from the jets to to the Steelers, he stays in the AFC again with a defensive culture and a defensive head coach. I let's just how good do we think he is compared to the other now he's past his prime. He's 41 year old Aaron with the other AFC quarterbacks. Well I'll just start it with this since 2022 and that includes the last year in Green Bay. Aaron is not Geno Smith. And I know you don't want to hear that, but if you told me I had a game to win, I'd take Genoa. Gino right now moves. He's more mobile. He's pretty close to his prime, though probably a bit out of the prime. He has a better passer rating, completion percentage, much larger yards per game and he's winning more games. So. And Geno's not in the upper tier of the AFC quarterbacks. In my opinion though, I think he's a little undervalued. But if, if I went today and you told me best quarterbacks in the AFC and I mean maybe my order's not perfect or to your liking because I think Burrow last year honestly was the best quarterback. I'd go Alan Mahomesboro, Lamar, that's the big four. Nobody disputes. I'd go Herbert, C.J. stroud and I put Gino seven. And again when Gino has a run game in his career in Seattle, he was good. His passer ratings over 100. So we can make. We can say now Geno Sam Darnold, when he's rattled or there's pressure, he can be reckless. But if you give him time and you give him a decent run game, Geno Smith's pretty good quarterback. He's a B plus plus and I would put the eighth best quarterback, Bo Nix, who's going into year two with Sean Payton and I think Bo Nix is so much more athletic than anybody wants to give him credit for. His running is a huge element of that offense. And then number nine, I think you get Aaron, Trevor Lawrence and TUA where it kind of just depends on the game. I don't trust to in bad weather up north. Trevor Lawrence makes too many mistakes and Aaron's. He is a pocket quarterback. So that's kind of what you're looking at. Can you make the playoffs with the ninth best quarterback in the afc? Absolutely. Especially if your defense is great. But that's kind of where he's at right now. He's sort of in that to a Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers, I think that's fair. He's 41. He's a strictly a pocket quarterback. And Arthur Smith, six years coach and coordinators had one top 10 offense. Remember the Steelers lost their best running back, their left tackle and their best receiver. No other team in the NFL had that kind of losses in offensive production. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd. Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app after that disheartening 4 nil loss to Switzerland last night. So the World Cup's a year away on US Soil. The Gold cup starts this weekend. So I'm gonna throw a theory at you is that as. As we have more play. You were the first American. You played in the Italian League. You went over. What was that, like, 1980. You went over and played in Italy.

[Unknown Advertiser]

80.

[Jason McIntyre]

What was it?

[Alexi Lawless]

Previous century? Let's just say previous century. The 1900s.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, so here's my take on this. That there's a slight pivot that Christian Pulisic and the top players are signaling. They're saying, listen, two things matter in soccer now. Our stars making money in Europe and the World cup. And this stuff in between doesn't matter like it did years ago. Now, when you or Landon Donovan were going over, we didn't have the number of players, but Pulisic's like, I'm an AC Milan second season, 50 grueling matches. I don't care about the Gold Cup. Could I just say that the world. And it's actually. It's because of our talent that the world's changing, that the European money's number two, World Cup's number one. But maybe, maybe stuff like the Gold cup matter as much anymore.

[Alexi Lawless]

You can say it. I don't know if it's necessarily true. And if it is true, then it's a sad commentary on, well, I guess not how far we've come or how much we've regressed. Because, you know, I still look out and I see whether it's a Messi or a Cristiano Ronaldo. And I know they play in different. It's a different context in terms of where they play and the teams that they play for. But. And I try so hard, Colin, not to grumpy old man, this thing, but I cannot fathom or understand or relate to. If and when you are called to represent your country, a country that I feel is the greatest country in the world, you saying no? I'm willing to give Christian Pulisic some grace. If he needs rest, that's fine. I will remind Christian and anybody else out there, last time I was 100%, I was 10 years old. I think the bigger problem is for Christian Pulisic not to be here this summer is that you got to read the room, dude. And I think this is a bad look for him, for his agent, and for U.S. soccer. Because, look, I know, we talk about politics every once in a while and I love politics. And this is a situation where we've just come through an era where at best, best you can call it, well, some dramatic spinning, but at worst it's gaslighting. I am not here to do either one of those things to you or to your audience. You deserve better. And the truth is right now, this is A team, the U.S. men's National Team, that is looked upon with criticism. There is plenty of angst associated with it. And I think the worst part is that there is apathy associated to this team. And so in this moment, when you have a chance to, yes, it's the Gold cup, to come in to represent this country and to kind of set the course in a much more positive type of way and create some momentum that you need, by the way, a year before a home World cup, you say, no, it's a bad look for him.

[Jason McIntyre]

How about this is that though we have a group of five or six elite players, all overseas playing well, right? That our talent pool is not as deep as, you know, countries that we in the Netherlands, it could be, it could be Colombia, it could be Spain were not as deep as France or as Italy. Now, I mean, those countries, like Germany too, they have rebuilding World Cups like they're not always at their peak, but our talent pool is pretty thin. And Mauricio Pochettino, who loves younger players last night said, I'm going to roll the dice with our young guys. And last night he discovered that, that, that talent pool is just not there. And so, so last night was simply a wake up call. And it was, it was something that he needed. How about that?

[Alexi Lawless]

I think you're a little bit letting Mauricio Pochettino off the hook. You know, he has a pedigree when it comes to the club game, but not the international game. And they are very, very different in terms of the time that you are able to spend with your team. He is being paid, rumored to be $6 million a year. And so he has been hired to get us to a point that we haven't been before. And look, this has been an abject failure and certainly over the last couple of games, ultimately he will be judged by the, the Gold Cup. Like I said, it's an opportunity now to make sure that we are headed in a better direction. But those two games that we just saw against Turkey and against Switzerland, these are not elites of the world, but these are good teams. And obviously they've shown that in this form against this team, they Were better.

[Jason McIntyre]

J. Mac had said this. I always felt. And you as a defender, I always felt our stamp. We were closer to Italy than Argentina or Brazil. We were not that skilled. We had good goalkeeping. If we did beat international teams, it was low scoring. We could be. We could be physical. Yourself, Clint Dempsey. We had a chip on our shoulder, but we were defense first. We knew we weren't Argentina. We knew we weren't Brazil or the Netherlands. We knew that. And so there was a certain style and skill level that dictated that I think this is a more skilled group. And again, I think we should be more aggressive. I always felt when we played like England and Germany, we were playing for the last 15 minutes and see if we could come out one nothing. We were just trying to keep it at bay. Defense, should we be more aggressive? And because that is Mauricio's history, he likes young players and he is aggressive. Do you. Because J. Mac said this during the break, he goes, what are we with every good team in every sport is something. What are we right now with USA Soccer?

[Alexi Lawless]

So we are representative of a country that is completely unique relative to almost all of the rest of the world. Obviously, soccer is not king. But also, when you look at our diversity, that means incredible diversity of thought in the way that people think about the game. And I've talked about this fallacy that is the melting pot of a national team. We have players from all over, not just the country, but all over the world. And it's very difficult to get 11 players on the field all headed in the same direction in a country that thinks about the game in as a diverse way as we do. If I ask 100American soccer people out there, what is the beautiful game? I'm going to get 100 different answers. Now, that's not an excuse, but it is a reality. And so Pochettino's job is to make sure. If he's got to dumb it down, fine. But whatever it is, either you're on board or you aren't. And I cannot tell you the amount of people that have come up to me and said, you know what? I will take a less talented U.S. men's National Team at this point, as long as they show some of that traditional spirit and fight and they make us proud by what they're doing. You know, the Supreme Court tried to define obscenity many, many years ago, and they said, we can't do that. But we know it when we see it. American soccer fans, they know it when they see it, and they have yet to see it with this group, and that is concerning a year out from the World Cup. Like I said, if you had asked me back in 1994 what we would look like on 2025, a year before the 2026 World cup, the men's World cup, returning to the U.S. this is not what I. What I have envisioned back then. So we got to get ourselves in order. We on the field and to a certain extent, off the field. Because this is coming down the pike and it is coming fast. And it behooves us to make sure that this is a wonderful advertisement to the world in what we do on the field and what we do off the field. Field.

[Jason McIntyre]

When Pulisic decided not to play now, I would defend him in that he's played 50 match seasons with AC Milan. That's rigorous soccer. And he just said, man, I'm. I need a break here. I don't love it, but I get the explanation. Tyler Adams is truly hurt. That's fine. But did Pulisic send a message? Could I read into that? I'm not sure if he loves this new coach. I always thought he and Burhalter got along. I thought the players like Burhalter. Now, Gio Reyna, we know about that situation. But is Pulisic sending a message to me that he doesn't necessarily love the guy that replaced Burhalter or my overstating just he's fatigued.

[Alexi Lawless]

No, I do think that he generally thinks that he is fatigued and he generally thinks that this is going to help him. But look, if the herd was in crisis, right, they came to you and said, listen, we don't know if we're going to continue on with this thing. You've got a week to prove to us that you deserve for us to continue on. And you said, you know what? I got a vacation scheduled, so I'm just going to bring in whoever but everybody else has to come in and work. That would look bad and you would look bad in the process. And I would think if this really means something to you, that you would move heaven and earth to be there to try to set this right. Now, does it mean that it's all going to go great? No. But at least you are there in the trenches, in the most important moment before this World cup, helping this team. So, yeah, I mean, look, Christian Pulisic is going to be fine. He's a big boy, all right? He's going to take his licks right now publicly, which. Which is. Which is fine. He may hit back. I don't know. And I think he's going to be there next summer. And maybe in a strange way, this puts the burden, if you will, or the onus on Christian Pulisic to bring it because he's rested and we are going to expect more. Fine. Christian, you got to take the summer of 2025 off. That means that when you come in the summer of 2026, you live up to the hype, which he has, to be fair to him. But you are the best player on the field and you are a leader on and off the field. That takes us into a territory that, that we haven't been before.

[Jason McIntyre]

Finally, what will satisfy you in the Gold cup starting this weekend? What will you be if they come out of it? They're not going to win it. But what would satisfy you if they didn't win it?

[Alexi Lawless]

Oh, no, I'm still expecting them to win it. I don't, I don't. This is still the Gold Cup. You can't have it both ways. Okay? You can't, you can't tell me that the Gold cup is a lesser tournament. And it's. And when it comes to competition and okay, relative to the World cup, cup, fine, but, but, but then when we get to the world, to this Gold cup, even with the talent that we have, as poorly as they played in the last two games, that you shouldn't expect them to, to win it. Are they the favorites? No, but I expect them to rise to the occasion. They hear everything that is being said right now, all right? And I hope they take it to heart, okay? And it's nothing, believe me, it's nothing compared to other teams around the world when they falter right now. So whether it's Mauricio Pochettino and some of the heat that he's coming in for, or whether it's this group of players that are there or the group of players that aren't there, I hope you hear it and I hope you react. We shouldn't have to do that, but I hope that it does light a fire under their asses and they bring it when it comes to the Gold cup and then obviously for the next year and then that magic happens next summer. But they got a long way to go.

[Jason McIntyre]

Alexi Lawless cutting through his O's, my friend, Maybe I'm just getting too worked up. Maybe I care too much. That's my problem. I care too much.

[Alexi Lawless]

You never care too much. One cannot care too much, my friend. You're a lover, not a fighter. I know that's right.

[Jason McIntyre]

Exactly Alexi Lawless, Fox Sports soccer analyst.

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[Jason McIntyre]

Proud partner of the Voluum Podcast Network this is an iHeart podcast.