Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – "Best of The Herd" (June 23, 2025)

The Herd with Colin Cowherd delivers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of the top sports stories of the day. In the "Best of The Herd" episode, host Rick Bucher, alongside guest analyst John Middlekauff, delves into pivotal topics ranging from NBA championships and player trades to emerging stars in the WNBA and the evolving landscape of sports rivalries. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during the episode.

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1. Reflection on the Recent NBA Championship: Oklahoma City Thunder

Timestamp: [02:57] – [06:48]

Rick Bucher opens the discussion by evaluating the Oklahoma City Thunder's surprising NBA championship win. Despite the team's depth and strategic roster construction, Rick expresses skepticism about the championship's impact and memorability.

• Rick Bucher: "I thought it was a fairly predictable sequence of events that would occur regardless of the winner. [06:48]"

He critiques the team's performance, highlighting inconsistencies and injuries, particularly Tyrese Halliburton's pivotal injury, which Rick felt diminished the championship's significance.

• Rick Bucher: "I'm just telling you how I feel. I think Indiana 10 years from now will be the team you remember. [06:48]"

2. Kevin Durant's Trade to the Houston Rockets

Timestamp: [08:29] – [14:36]

The episode transitions to a significant NBA trade: Kevin Durant moving to the Houston Rockets. Rick analyzes the trade's implications for both Durant and the Rockets.

• Rick Bucher: "Kevin Durant to the Rockets felt bigger than Game 7, especially after the Halliburton injury. [08:44]"

He argues that Houston provides the ideal environment for Durant, citing the team's depth, defensive culture, and strategic fit that allows Durant to focus on his scoring prowess without the burden of leading defensively.

• Rick Bucher: "He can be a scorer and that's when he's at his best. [51:09]"

Durant's own reflections on the trade are featured, emphasizing his desire to choose his own path and align with a team that values him.

• Kevin Durant: "They asked me where I wanted to go, some of my destinations, I gave it to them and here we are. [12:22]"

3. Analysis of Recent NBA Champions

Timestamp: [19:09] – [44:52]

Rick presents a critical analysis of the last seven NBA champions, ranking them based on roster strength, performance, and overall impact. The ranking culminates with the Boston Celtics as the top team, praised for their dominant roster and consistent performance.

• Rick Bucher: "I would put Denver at number three. [25:22]"

He contrasts teams like the Raptors and Warriors with the Celtics and Lakers, arguing that recent championships have often been won by teams with strategic depth rather than star-stacked rosters.

• Clifton Cowherd: "You don't have to stack stars and we're seeing it in real time. [19:09]"

4. The Evolution of the NBA Under Adam Silver

Timestamp: [25:46] – [45:17]

The conversation shifts to the NBA's transformation under Commissioner Adam Silver. Rick posits that the league has consciously moved away from star-stacked dynasties toward a more collaborative and balanced competitive landscape.

• Rick Bucher: "We're seeing it in real time. The last seven years. Oklahoma City, excellent defensively, but basically one elite score and he didn't even shoot particularly well, especially from three point, and they still won. [19:09]"

This strategic shift, Rick believes, has led to a more diverse set of champions but may also contribute to the perception that recent titles are less memorable.

5. Emerging Rivalries: Dodgers vs. Padres

Timestamp: [35:10] – [38:38]

Rick and John Middlekauff discuss the intensifying rivalry between the Los Angeles Dodgers and the San Diego Padres. Highlighting recent playoff drama, ejections, and on-field confrontations, they celebrate this matchup as one of the most exciting rivalries in sports.

• Rick Bucher: "This is everything a rivalry should be. [37:45]"

They emphasize the geographic proximity and contrasting team dynamics as key factors fueling the rivalry's excitement.

6. Spotlight on Caitlin Clark and the WNBA

Timestamp: [28:37] – [39:44]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Caitlin Clark, a standout player in women's basketball. John introduces Christine Brennan's book, On Her Game, which chronicles Clark's rise and her impact on the WNBA.

• John Middlekauff: "Caitlin Clark is so important to the financial future of the WNBA at the time. [28:37]"

Christine Brennan joins the discussion, praising Clark as a transformative figure whose performances are reshaping perceptions of women's basketball.

• Christine Brennan: "This athlete, Caitlin Clark, is so important to the financial future of the WNBA... [28:37]"

Rick and John explore how Clark's exceptional skills and visibility are pivotal for the WNBA's growth, contrasting her influence with previous stars who didn't receive similar attention.

7. Critique of the Current NBA Playoff Structure and Injuries

Timestamp: [56:54] – [58:38]

Rick critiques the NBA's intense playoff schedule, linking it to the rise in player injuries. He argues that the current system emphasizes short-term performance over long-term athlete health.

• Rick Bucher: "We do not need seven game first rounders. [54:39]"

Colin Cowherd counters, suggesting that the grind of the playoffs is essential for determining true champions and that altering the schedule could undermine the championship's legitimacy.

• Colin Cowherd: "I believe that grind and enduring the season and the postseason is part of what makes you a champion. [56:06]"

8. Future Outlook: NBA Draft and Emerging Talent

Timestamp: [51:07] – [54:40]

Looking ahead, Rick and Colin discuss the upcoming NBA draft, highlighting prospects like Cooper Flag and a Rutgers standout known for his defensive prowess. They debate the potential impact of these players on future team dynamics and championship races.

• Rick Bucher: "He's a good two-way player. [53:31]"

They also consider the balance between athleticism and skill, emphasizing the need for versatile players who can adapt to the modern NBA's demands.

9. Closing Remarks and Additional Commentary

Timestamp: [57:00] – [59:38]

As the episode draws to a close, Rick and Colin revisit earlier discussions, reinforcing their perspectives on the Thunder's championship and Durant's trade. They reiterate the importance of strategic roster construction and player health in building sustainable championship teams.

• Rick Bucher: "It's a perfect fit. [35:42]"

Colin Cowherd: "You get a bucket guy, he's agreeable, he can catch and shoot it, he's got length. [07:10]"

Conclusion

The "Best of The Herd" episode offers a thorough analysis of current sports narratives, blending critical insights with enthusiastic support for emerging talents and strategic team dynamics. From the nuanced evaluation of NBA championships to the groundbreaking influence of players like Caitlin Clark, Rick Bucher and Colin Cowherd provide listeners with a rich, insightful commentary on the evolving landscape of professional sports.

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Notable Quotes:

• Rick Bucher: "I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. [59:01]"
• Kevin Durant: "I wouldn't have rather done it with any other group in the world. It feels good to be a champion. [08:29]"
• Christine Brennan: "Caitlin Clark is so important to the financial future of the WNBA. [28:37]"

This episode is a must-listen for sports enthusiasts seeking in-depth analysis and spirited discussions on the latest happenings in the sports world.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Rick Bucher]

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[Rick Bucher]

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[John Middlekauff]

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[Rick Bucher]

Weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon.

[John Middlekauff]

To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on.

[Rick Bucher]

The iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Producer]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[Rick Bucher]

Ah, here we go. We are live. It's the Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. John Mittlekoff is going to be filling in for the next three days. My buddy John Mittlekoff. Top got a very popular podcast at the volume three and out former NFL scout. You know you're a self admitted football guy and I like football more than basketball. But I did grow up in the 70s in the Pacific Northwest with Bill Walton in the Blazers and the Sonics and people always lament the 70s NBA, John. There was no great dynasties and I defended because I collect basketball cards when every other kid had baseball cards. But I got to admit last night that kind of felt like a nothing burger, did it not?

[Guest Analyst]

It was a big win for the small markets, I guess.

[Rick Bucher]

I guess it was that a small story. Listen, we have entered in the last seven years a new NBA. The champions. They're good teams. Jokic, the only all star on Denver. Yeah, you can, you can see them. Thunders, Celtics, Nuggets, Warriors, Bucks, Lakers, Raptors. Folks, OKC has one elite score. He had three bad games, shot 24% from three. Chet Holmgren disappeared for five games. J Dub disappeared for several and they won. That's the champion. I'm not sure they do if Halliburton remains in the game. Baseball's best teams right now are stacked and feel like it. Attendance ratings up, the NFL's best teams, Ravens, Kansas City, Philadelphia. Stacked ratings up. The new NBA. It's like you're battling the CBA as much as opponents. In fact, OKC is so young they could potentially be significantly better over the next three years than this season. They've got two first round picks. They're young players like Holgren, who's talented but wildly uneven. You have no idea what you're getting. Quarter to quarter, J Dub, what a ceiling. But what a disappearing act. Alex Caruso literally had to show OKC's young players how to open champagne bottles. America's event driven. Now it's a Tom Cruise movie, a Taylor Swift tour, a the World cup, the College Football Playoff, the Super bowl and these NBA playoffs. I know, I tried to defend them, but last night after that Halliburton injury, it felt small. I don't want every NBA champion to feel like the 2004 Chauncey Billups Pistons. I don't. Last night I'm watching that game because I'm a sportscaster. I missed MJ's bulls, Katie, Steph, Clay, Draymond, warriors, the Heels. Hell, I missed the Duncan, Manu, Tony Parker, spurs this is not a knock on Oklahoma City. They won due to roster construction and depth, which is not exactly a great movie poster. The new NBA is the era of accounting where you have to draft really well and develop really well and then cross your fingers where players stay healthy and the last team standing was the healthiest and maybe has the best GM and has tremendous roster construction. But again, that doesn't get me to goosebumps. This felt like a great day for Oklahoma, maybe a neat day for Oklahoma and surrounding areas. And I know I sound like a buzzkill. I'm not telling you how to feel.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm.

[Rick Bucher]

I'm just telling you how I feel. I think Indiana 10 years from now will be the team you remember. Now, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe OKC goes on to win six titles. Seven. And they're one of the greatest dynasties ever because the new CBA doesn't allow for star stacking. And really the GMs will be as big as the players. But when I watched the Dodgers Padres last week, it jumped off the television. The animosity, the intensity, the stars. It was everywhere. And I felt last night there's the old saying, video killed the radio star and the new CBA has killed basketball stars. They can't play together. So just think about this in terms of all time great teams. OKC has one elite score, three bad games, couldn't hit three pointers, the number two and three scores really struggled. I mean, Chet Holmgren was the invisible man for like four games in the series, maybe five. And they won. That's why Indiana was so captivating. Rick Carlisle, the oldest coach in the league, the most overrated player in Halliburton. If not for the injuries, maybe I feel different and I'm happy for Oklahoma City. They have probably the best young executive in the league in Sam Presti. But it felt small. And when the Celtics lost Tatum and the injuries throughout the playoffs, it just didn't feel big. And it hasn't for seven years unless your team won. And here's SGA after no matter what.

[Kevin Durant]

Like you go into every night wanting to win and sometimes it just doesn't go your way. And tonight could have been one of those nights where we found a way. I'm so proud of this group. I wouldn't have rather done it with any other group in the world. It feels good to be a champion.

[Rick Bucher]

So I thought it was interesting. Earlier in the day the KD trade came down and people were so excited. Here's what's funny. He didn't have much of A market. But we were so excited for basketball that, you know, 36, 37 year old KD going to Houston felt bigger than Game 7, especially after the Halliburton injury. So Kevin Durant to the Rockets. I said this for the last two weeks, why isn't there a bigger market? I do think this could help or hinder his legacy because KD is starting to feel a little like old Shaq and current Aaron Rodgers. Kind of sad. Katie to Brooklyn was an absolute mess. Katie to Phoenix was underwhelming. Although it should be noted Phoenix was about a.500 team when he played 3 and 17 when he didn't. So he wasn't the problem in Phoenix. I think it's going to work. This to me is the perfect place to go. So they have things Phoenix didn't. They have an infrastructure that the Suns didn't. Houston has a great coach. They just gave him an extension. They have size. Phoenix doesn't. They've got depth. He doesn't have to play 68 games a year. They've got multiple players, a Cam Whitmore, Jabari Smith, Reed Shepherd. He doesn't have to be on the floor a lot until big games in the playoffs. So I think this is exactly what Houston needs. And strangely it's exactly what Kevin Durant needs. A relevant team. Excellent owner, one of the top five richest owners in the sport. Excellent coach, lots of depth. Sengoon will be the centerpiece of the offense. Amen. Thompson will be the defensive stopper. And then the team has all sorts of length around him. So Kevin doesn't have to be as great defensively as he was probably six, seven years ago. I mean Houston was held under 90 points twice by the Warriors. They can't shoot, so he's absolutely necessary. I think he's a perfect fit. They've got all the structure and by the way, certain people should. Shaq was often distracted. Aaron Rodgers clearly needs structure. That's where I've said Aaron and Katie are similar. They're very good when structures already present. Because what KD doesn't want to do is end up being, if this goes sideways, a yeah, but guy. Yeah, he was great, but he didn't win big without Steph. Yeah, he had to bounce around. He had eight different head coaches. I mean, yeah, he was great, but when you really compare him to like LeBron and Steph, you know, what is he? Kind of a want wonder. I think Kevin Durant's game, his talent, he was the number one mid range shooter in the league last year. Only two people in the NBA also averaged 25 a game and then hit 40% on threes. Joe Kitchen, Kevin Durant, he's still an elite player. If he remains healthy for the next two years, it will feel like the Houston Rockets stole KD from Phoenix. If he crumples to the ground, cross your fingers. He doesn't, then maybe Phoenix likes the assets they got. Here's Kevin Durant yesterday being a part.

[Kevin Durant]

Of the Houston Rockets. I'm looking forward to it. Crazy, crazy last couple weeks, but I'm glad it's over with. You know when people could just hang your career in the balance like that and just choose what they want to do with your career as a nerve wracking feeling, but being able to kind of dictate what you want to do and then being with a team that values you. And I'm looking forward to it, Kevin.

[Rick Bucher]

People are going to hold on to that, dictate what you want to do. Did you have a hand in this?

[Kevin Durant]

Definitely. I mean, they asked me where I wanted to go, some of my destinations, I gave it to them and here we are.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, again, everybody wants to pick a side on trades, winner and loser. If KD remains healthy, Houston's going to feel like they won this trade because they only had to give up one first round pick if he has injury issues. And the number 10 pick. The Sun's gotten the draft hits. Jalen Green's expensive, but he'll be productive. Dylan Brooks will start for them. A bunch of second round picks they can play around with. Then maybe it feels like Phoenix won the deal. But I do think Kevin Durant's game is too good to be sort of lumped into a. Yeah, butt guy. One of the best NBA offensive players of my lifetime. And I started watching this sport in 1971, 72. So I'm happy for him. Well, you live in the Arizona area. He said something, John. I thought it was interesting. You know, he's just got such an interesting personality. He'll go on Twitter and talk to people. He'll. You see him on the street, you go to games, he'll talk to people. He said yesterday, he goes, you know, they didn't want me, so I'm glad to go. How did people in your hometown, Phoenix, how did they view KD and the whole KD Beal experiment?

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, I think the Suns have just been a disaster. I mean, people are tuned out. I think the expectations when they traded for him were pretty high. I mean, you get a Kevin Durant, the same thing with Brooklyn. You're expecting we're going to compete for the championship. Last year wasn't even close. Now, not all his fault. The owner's a little crazy. I mean, you know, trading for Bradley Beal absolutely backfired. I actually think this situation. Houston feels three or four years a little too late. I mean, he's 37. Colin, he's. He got in the NBA when he was 19 years old. So a lot of wear and tear on this body. If he would have got there like when he moved to Brooklyn, a situation like this, who knows? I don't know. It's battle. A lot of injuries lately.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, no, he's playing about 60, 65 games now. The good news is they have a lot of length in Houston and a lot of young guys. So he does not have to be. You know, it's pretty clear they're going to keep him around for the playoffs. They got him. I mean they got to the playoffs without him and they. Jalen Green is not a defined player. He's too expensive. I think it will pay off for sure. Late. But you cross your fingers on health because with kd, you know it with the warriors, that is now a thing in his career.

[Guest Analyst]

Are you confident that he's going to be there for more than a year and a half at this point? Kind of a traveling circus? A little bit.

[Rick Bucher]

I do think I've heard for years NBA players like Houston. Yeah, they like living there. No state tax, middle of the country. I my take is this is where he ends it and I think it's a pretty good spot because I do think they have a defensive culture. He's not the defender he used to be, but they have a defensive culture and they have the length and quickness. Amen Thompson. So they won't need. They really need him to grab it and shoot it.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

That day they shot fewer three pointers than anybody in the playoffs. They had two games with the warriors under 90 points. Like he is exactly what they need and they don't need him to be multiple in roles, bro. Catch it, shoot it, score, hit threes. That's all we need. And I think that's what he provides totally.

[Producer]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Rick Bucher]

Hi, this is Jim. Hey. I'm the producer of the Paulie and Tony Fusco show. Usually in these promos they ask you to listen to the show. I'm here to ask you, please don't listen to the show. The hosts are two absolute morons who have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to this show so it can get canceled. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What the hell are you doing in our studio? Get him, Paulie. Ignore that fool. Listen to the Paulie and Tony Fusco show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.

[Colin Cowherd]

You get your podcast.

[Rick Bucher]

He's still moving.

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[John Middlekauff]

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[Rick Bucher]

Only one player that can call themselves.

[John Middlekauff]

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[Rick Bucher]

I started the show today, I was thinking, I don't want to be Mr. Negative OkC because I'm really impressed with Sam Presti, the fans there, it's their first title since they've moved. They thought they were going to get one with KD and Harden and Russell Westbrook and they didn't. And it's heartbreaking. So I was happy for him last night, but I just thought once Halliburton got hurt, I'm like, okay, this is a really forgettable final. This is the worst. And it's not their fault. They deserve it. But I was saying is, we have entered a new NBA. This is the seventh different champion in seven years. And a lot of it's because it's Adam Silver's NBA. So David Stern took the league over from Larry o' Brien and they, they needed big markets to flourish. The league wasn't doing well financially. The finals were on tape delay. I mean, seriously, playoff series were on a tape delay. The league was a mess. And so David Stern leaned into stars and big markets and had no problem with dynasties. But Adam Silver inherited a league where the ratings were down post Jordan. But the league was making a lot of money. It was culturally relevant. And there were a bunch of dynasty after dynasty after dynasty. And a lot of the market owners were complaining that it's very pro Laker pro, Celtic, pro, Miami pro, big market. So Adam Silver, it takes a commissioner five or six years to create their own league. And I think this is the league he wants. I'm not sure it's going to be popular, but it's a league that's collaborative. You can't stack stars and we're seeing it in real time. The last seven years. Oklahoma City, excellent defensively, but basically one elite score and he didn't even shoot particularly well, especially from three. And they still won. So I said I took the last seven champions. Let's rank them in order of how, where they rank in this seven year stretch. I think of the seven champions. I would put the Raptors as number seven. It was very Kawhi Leonard dependent. It was Fred Van Vliet and Kyle Lowry and Danny Green and Serge Ibatka. It wasn't a great team. I mean they went six plus games in each of the three rounds. They got very fortunate on a bounce against Philadelphia. Again, happy for them. A one and done. That is the weakest champion in the last seven years. I don't mean to beat upon the Thunder, but I think they're the sixth rated team. Listen, they have one offensive player. It's mostly depth and roster construction. Their second and third best scorers like Chet Holmgren and J Dub disappeared in games and they still won. And also, are we sure they would have won if Halliburton played great team defense? But I thought they had the second best coach in the finals. Their best shooter shot 24% from three. They're going to be noticeably better the next three years than this year. Number five. I put the Milwaukee Bucks again. A team that had to come back from multiple oh two deficits to win. Now it was Khris Middleton in his prime. Drew Holiday in his prime. Giannis emerging as a superstar a previous year or two. So again they felt like defensively the best team in the league. But they fell behind in multiple playoff series and were in trouble and had to go multiple games. I would put them at number five. Number four, the Warriors. It was the end of the run, end of the dynasty. Now they got a really good final from Andrew Wiggins. Jordan Poole was a good role player, but Steph Clay and Draymond passed their prime. It was the last legs of a dynasty. I thought they were done. Remember when they flew cross country back to Boston? I think they trailed in the series like 2 to 1. I thought they were done. I thought they were toast. And then they went to Boston and Tatum and Brown, they just weren't quite ready yet to seize it. I would put the warriors of the last seven champions at number four. I would put the Nuggets at number three. They're a little like okc. You got one great star. The difference is Jokic is the best player in the world. They, they also were dominant in the conference finals and the finals. They lost only one game. I got fooled by this team. I thought they had a long run, but then they started losing really valuable pieces like Brown and kcp. I put Denver at number three. The best overall roster of the last seven is Boston. The question is, what was Tatum? Brown won the conference MVP and the finals MVP. Dominant season 64 and 18. Did not lose more than one game in any series. And I think one through 10 in the last seven years, this is actually the best roster. You could say all you want about okc, but Jalen Brown is better than any number two player for Oklahoma City. And Derrick White, I mean everybody, he was our number four or five starter. You knew you were getting great defense in threes from Derrick White in every game. So this is the best collection of talent in the last seven years. But I think the best team was the Lakers AD in his prime. LeBron playing like he was in his prime. Alex Caruso. You just didn't know who Alex Caruso was yet. He was a great defensive player. Kcp, who's always been a big shot maker in the playoffs, they had the best record in the west before the league shut down with COVID So they don't get a lot of credit. But as the other old veteran teams crumpled, they had LeBron AD and really, really, really good role players. Again, you just didn't know. I didn't know much about Alex Caruso. We find out now he's a pretty solid player. So that's where I would rank the teams again. If Jayson Tatum was a more decisive big game star, I'd have no problem putting the Celtics above the Lakers because I thought 1 through 9, the roster is better. I mean, I mean when you can go, you know, the 2024 Celtics, just, just look at how good Derrick White is as an NBA player. He was often option number four, but I don't think even that the Lakers are an all time great Laker team. I would say the Showtime Lakers are much better. The Shaq and Kobe Lakers are better. The Kobe Gasol Lakers to me are better than this Laker championship team in.

[Guest Analyst]

The bubble, I would agree. And the warriors team, remember Jordan Poole played a pretty big role. Steph missed some time. Remember Steph missed some games. I think Jordan Poole was starting. So yeah, I mean it's. We have some great individual players over the last seven years. But the teams. But this is kind of the nature of Adam Silver, right? All these players move non stop. This is in the 90s where guys are on the same team. Reggie Miller played for the pacers for what, 18 years. Those days are done.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

Okay. So I started reading on, on the flight to LA yesterday afternoon. I started reading Caitlin Clark book by Christine Brennan. And I just wanted to know like the rest of you, 90% of us, me and you, we started watching her her junior year, her last couple years at, at Iowa, right? We, oh man, she shoots three. She looks like Steph Curry. But when you read this book, Christine Brennan really holds the wa accountable and she says the league was simp cared for and didn't do their homework. So the NBA has, I think through the years in the NFL they kind of know when a star is coming and they often soften up the schedule. The WNBA did not do that for Connecticut, having them play New York and Connecticut early. But this book talks about a specific moment. Caitlin's sophomore year, sophomore. She goes on the road to face Michigan, a 20 and 2 team. She dropped 46 points, 10 assists, played every minute. It was her third 40 point game of her sophomore year. And in the book it details how people that were at the game realized, oh, she's doing things we have never seen a woman's basketball player do. 46 points, 10 assists, played every minute. There's also stories, and I don't expect the NWNBA to have information when she was in seventh and eighth grade. But one of the fascinating stories is she was down when she was like in the seventh or eighth grade, she was down 11 points with a minute seven left. Caitlin Clark went on a 13 nothing run to win in like the seventh or eighth grade. But one of the criticisms I've had with the WNBA is it is your job to know and identify stars before they're at your doorstep. You gotta see them coming up the driveway. And when you read this book, I think Christine really holds them accountable. And the WNBA has pushed back, but her shooting distance, multiple 40 point games, you don't get a lot of 40 point games, 45 point games from college men's basketball players like you just don't see that. So she's dropping 46 as a sophomore. People that are at the game are talking about her passing is actually better than her shooting. She's a revolutionary player. So I think the book really dissects some of the lack of preparation or awareness. And you know, you can just like also Christine Brennan holds women's basketball accountable for not putting her on the Olympic team where they didn't have a lot of great perimeter shooters and she was emerging as a noteworthy player when they were when they were making those tryouts. So Christine Brennan last week on the Herd on Caitlin's impact to the wnba.

[Christine Brennan]

This athlete, Caitlin Clark, is so important to the financial future of the WNBA at the time. By the way, as you know that the the cba, the collective bargaining agreement is open and will be being negotiated. All of these things that we would see arenas having to be games being moved to bigger arenas and that we would be talking about a female athlete. Never in my lifetime did I think I would see that. And I think that's what makes this so remarkable and so different from another phenom coming into a sport.

[Rick Bucher]

The book is called On Her Game. It really breaks down how all the signs were there, not as a junior, not as a senior. They were in the Big Ten on display late sophomore season. She was doing things, making passes and taking shots from areas women did not shoot from. And the people that were in attendance at these games, especially the one in Ann Arbor, were awestruck by what they saw and word was traveling really fast. JOHN we're going to our number two. Colin Right. Colin Wrong. Rick Bucher stops by it's the Herd.

[Producer]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am.

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[Rick Bucher]

Hour two. It is a Monday. We are live. But it's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. My buddy John Middlecock, part of the Volume three and out podcast, is joining us this week. J Mac is. I think he's doing a volleyball tournament in Scottsdale down in your home.

[Guest Analyst]

Oh, I'll switch spots.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, a little warm. It's a little warm. So I don't want to be Mr. Buzz Kill. I know I stay off the phone, right? But I'm probably getting crushed today because I just think we have to be honest. And I do think Oklahoma City has become another one of these teams where I'm kind of left watching it thinking, yeah, yeah, I guess they're the champ. It's roster construction, it's defense, it's depth. And I just. When Halliburton got hurt last night, it just was a gut punch. I felt so bad for him. I felt bad for me as a consumer. Just wasn't that interesting. So we do it every Monday where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong. And here we go.

[Producer]

Where Colin was right.

[Rick Bucher]

I said last week five things I trust will happen in game seven. And they mostly did. Oklahoma City's defense was great. Rick Carlile's coaching, I mean, they let it half SGA, got to the free throw line and OKC's bench was very good. Young benches usually are at home. So I think this game, Game seven, I don't know who would have won without Halberton's injury, but I thought it was a fairly predictable sequence of events that would occur regardless of the winner.

[Producer]

Where Colin was raw.

[Rick Bucher]

I don't trust young playoff teams. In fact, the bubble is the only time in my adult life where young teams flourished. And I had my questions about okc. Yeah, they'll be great in the regular season. And they ended up being a very mediocre road playoff team. But they remained healthy, they were good at home, they won the games they had to against Indy and Denver. And so I didn't know if this team was going to win. I kept being told, colin, they're going to mow through the West. Well, they didn't mow through Indiana and they didn't mow through Denver. But I'll take it wrong.

[Producer]

Where Colin was right, Kevin Durant to the Rockets.

[Rick Bucher]

To me, this was the obvious fit. You know, Houston didn't have to give up a second first round pick and now Phoenix is sort of ball centric, guard heavy. So I don't know what it looks like for Phoenix, but I do think he works here. And The Suns were 3 and 17 when he didn't play. He's a get a bucket guy. He's agreeable, he can catch and shoot it, he's got length. Now he's going to give you about 60, 65 games. But because of the construct of the Rockets roster, that's going to be okay. So I, I like the move for KD.

[Producer]

Where Colin was raw.

[Rick Bucher]

Team USA. How about this plus 7 point differential, number one in the gold cup so far. Surprising because I think without pulisic and Weston McKinney they lack creativity in the midfield but they're the highest scoring team right now in the Gold Cup. What's interesting is we don't know what we're doing in goal, which is usually our strength as a country. They were distracted and kind of, to be honest, reeling before the Gold Cup. So I am surprised as the competition ratcheted up that they've scored and been.

[Producer]

This competent where Colin was right.

[Rick Bucher]

Well, multiple sources in an ESPN story reported around the NBA. The Lakers selling to Mark Walter was going to help the Lakers become what I've been preaching for five years, a big time sports brand. They're very mom and pop. They're very Cincinnati Bengals with a much better brand. Very small, insular. They need a fresh set of eyes and perspective. I think this was needed and the ESPN article last week had multiple sources saying they've needed to graduate to the next level, the billionaire club for several years.

[Producer]

Where Colin was wrong.

[Rick Bucher]

Well Shador Sanders immaturity and bad judgment. I'm selling my stock. It's not the end of the world and nobody's saying it is. But when you're a fifth round marginal prospect at corporate quarterback, the maturity position, you can't get caught speeding twice in a week going over 90 miles an hour. You just lack the judgment and self awareness for a position, fair or not, that demands an adult and great decision making. At 24 years old he's a good quarterback prospect. He's not special, he's not great. He doesn't have a huge arm. He doesn't move like Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray. In the end I overvalued him, overlooked some of his maturity stumbles.

[Producer]

And now here we are where Collin was right.

[Rick Bucher]

Dodgers, Padres. We've been on this since last year in the playoffs. This is the best rivalry in sports. Maybe it is an unbelievable rivalry. They met last week. We had ejections, drama, suspensions. They were throwing at each other. The managers were bumping walk off home runs. This is everything a rivalry should be. There's a proximity geographically. Machado, the former Dodger is now a Padre. The Padres are young and cocky. The Dodgers are winners and more established. All the great things that make a great sports rivalry and that's a baseball series in June that had the feeling of a playoff series. We said it last year, this not the Yankees and Red Sox is must watch television.

[Producer]

Where Colin was right.

[Rick Bucher]

I've Talked about that. Caitlin Clark isn't part of the moment. She is the moment. Last week, Sophie Cunningham, who's been in the WNBA seven years, sold her jerseys out in a day and 350,000 IG followers by just fouling somebody hard in seven support of Caitlin Clark. Sophie Cunningham's been around seven years. Nobody paid much attention. Suddenly you can't keep her jerseys on the rack because she's just defending Caitlin Clark. That is the definition of a transformative basketball player. Caitlin Clark is not part of it. She is the moment. It is a Taylor Swift tour. I don't care who plays before and after. I don't care about anybody else on the label. It's all about Caitlin Clark. Colin, right? Colin Wrong on a Monday. And with that, Rick Bucher is now saddling in. He's going to join us today. A perfect guest. So I was Mr. Buzz Kill in the opening segment.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, you were. My goodness.

[Rick Bucher]

I know. And listen, I'm happy for champions. It's a small market. It's like the packers winning. Like, you feel good for him, but we have seven years and this is now Adam Silver's NBA. If I. If you'd never seen OKC play. And I said, there's this team, they have one elite score. He was awful. From three point, had three bad games. Oh, their number two and three scores were no shows in multiple games. Oh, and they won.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

Can we be honest? Is roster construction and defense is what we'll remember this champion as?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I remember it as the youngest champion that we've ever seen. So all of those warts that you mentioned out mentioned, which are legit are a byproduct of that. And yes, the air was taken out of it when Tyrese Halliburton got it. Like, unfortunately, we had our expectations for a game seven the way this series had gone back and forth. But the poise and maturity that they showed throughout the playoffs in spite of their youth impressed me. And yes, we're just getting introduced to these guys. And let's face it, Che Gis Alexander for an MVP and for. I mean, you just, you just look at the, at the, at the body of. Of this team. Like, you don't have any personalities that jump out at you. Like, they just don't have those dynamics. You don't have like, I mean, a Dylan Brooks would be like Ronald McDonald on this team. You just be like. He'd be neon. Right. Like, they don't have. They're just a bunch of nice guys winning a championship so young that the vast Majority of them. I mean, Alex Caruso is probably the biggest personality, right. In terms of just kind of presence and aura. These guys didn't know how to open up champagne bottles.

[Rick Bucher]

That's how young they are. And I'm not criticizing him for it, but Chet Holmgren disappeared. J Dub was all over the map. Generally, that would signal you're in trouble.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, well, but let's keep in mind, prior to this year, which is what made this run such a surprise, they had never been past the second round. Like, this is a team full of guys. And I felt it in game six. They got the championship jitters.

[Rick Bucher]

There's no question. Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

And they did in game seven as well, in spite of the absence of Tyrese. Like, there was suddenly in the fourth quarter, they're like, wait a minute.

[Rick Bucher]

Could.

[Colin Cowherd]

Could the Pacers make a comeback in this? And here I experienced this with the San Antonio Spurs. I believe it's part of what happens in small markets is that it means so much to the fans there. And look, I'm not saying that the New York Knicks and the Lakers fans, but they're conditioned, expect big things, right? So when things go a little wobbly, they don't immediately go, oh, are we not going to get what we've always wanted our entire lives? Well, there is that vibe in the building, and teams, particularly young, young teams, pick up on that. I saw the San Antonio spurs go through the same thing. Their crowd would get so nervous that they would start to press. And there were probably some. Some games and some championships that they. They missed out on because they were affected by that crowd. I saw the same thing with Oklahoma City, but I am not taking anything away. You. It sounds like you are taking something away from that.

[Rick Bucher]

Well, first of all, because it wasn'.

[Colin Cowherd]

Entertaining enough for the great Colin Cow.

[Rick Bucher]

No, the Hal. I mean, listen, you. You put it out there. They, they. I mean, just, they were an average road team in the playoffs. Their regular season attributes were deserved, but it largely was a young team playing with high energy and depth. And, you know, his. The Derrick Rose Bulls regular seasons reward the focused and energized. Sure, they were going to be a regular season juggernaut. Just like I think Houston was a great regular season team, but you knew.

[Colin Cowherd]

They weren't going to get there.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, they didn enough shooting. I am not. I like. I. My take is, you deserve it. I'm happy for you. But it felt small and they felt like the Halliburton injury was a bit of a break because Indy was playing and Halliburton was playing.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

Totally on game early.

[Colin Cowherd]

This would have felt different if the Boston Celtics had been there. I think part of it was the opponents.

[Rick Bucher]

That's true. Like, that's right. You're absolutely right.

[Colin Cowherd]

It felt from the very beginning like OKC was supposed to win this, and a lot of people thought they would win it. Handle. I didn't see it that way because I thought that the Pacers had more than people gave them credit for. But so it felt. And I think people are downgrading Oklahoma City's championship now because they're like, it was the Indiana Pacers and you had to go to seven games to knock them out. But I still. I'm going to look at the fact that they are so young and their regular season record had us all expecting them to get it done. I think they expected to get it done, but they had so little experience at this level.

[Rick Bucher]

The Game six in Indy, when they just laid an absolute egg was. And that's when I kind of changed. That was like, sure. I said on the air after that game, I'm like, okay, these are good teams.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Rick Bucher]

I was still holding on. I'm like, if they win in game six at Indy, blow them out. And I'm like, okay, that's. That's bad.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, for a championship team, it feels like they have another step to take.

[Rick Bucher]

Oh, God, no. They'll be much better next year. Well, I don't. Holmgren. I don't know what I get from him offensively.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I think he. I mean, I think people discount the fact or don't take into account the fact that he's played as little as he has. He's played one full season. He missed 50 games this year.

[Rick Bucher]

Didn't he play one year at Gonzaga?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, that's it.

[Colin Cowherd]

So there's that. But I don't. I don't know if they're going to be back in the finals next year. I don't know how much better they're going to be next year because I think we've. We've automatically. We looked at Denver and Milwaukee and Boston, the last three champions, and we're like, oh, this is the beginning of a run. And that hasn't been the case for any of them.

[John Middlekauff]

Right.

[Rick Bucher]

I got fooled by Denver. I got fooled. I thought they were going to keep Brown and kcp and I. And I. I thought they. Michael Porter's, I thought, oh, was a bit overvalued, by the way. So I ranked the last seven champions one through seven. You're already smirking you already have the full disclosure.

[Colin Cowherd]

I've seen it ahead of time.

[Rick Bucher]

So Toronto again.

[Colin Cowherd]

How much? Can I just ask a question? No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

[Rick Bucher]

No, how much? What?

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I'll ask it after you show it. Okay. Because it'll. It makes sense.

[Rick Bucher]

So you're going to push back. I think the Celtics have the best of. I mean, Jaylen Brown was their number two player. Nobody in OKC is as good as Jaylen Brown consistently as a number two. I mean, Tatum and Brown are better than SG anybody. And I also think when Derek White's your four, he's an elite defender and was a very consistent. When you can go to al your talent, your talent. Horford off the bench, you know, Drew.

[Colin Cowherd]

Holiday, all of it but pure talent. Boston Celtics better than this.

[Rick Bucher]

Okay, Lakers Celt Lakers because AD in their prime. LeBron close to prime. What is that reaction? Who's wrong on that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Nick Wright put this together. He had to have this. Is. Is there small type on the bottom a Nick Wright production? It has to be. Look, I agree with you at the bottom of the list. But the fifth team should be the Los Angeles Lakers winning in an antiseptic environment. We just talked about the Thunder. What's that?

[Rick Bucher]

That's harder.

[Colin Cowherd]

No home court, no road. We just talked about the Oklahoma City Thunder having to go through that. You have an Anthony Davis and LeBron James who can't stay healthy through an entire season. And we're going to take three months off in the beginning. We're going to basically play two half seasons and they win a championship off of that. And you're going to put them at the top of the list. The Boston Celtics talent wise are much better at. At their peak at that. That 2020 team. Anthony Davis you said was prime. Anthony Davis. I would push back on that a little bit, but let's say. I'll go with you on that. Is prime Anthony Davis better than prime Nicola Jokic in. In.

[Rick Bucher]

No, no.

[Colin Cowherd]

2023.

[Rick Bucher]

The problem was with that Nuggets team. They didn't play any defense. A bad defensive team. The Lakers were an exceptional defensive team and very good role players. A dominant big LeBron antiseptic basketball. They were fighting Covid.

[Colin Cowherd]

There were just so many variables that are so unusual that to put them number one. Like I might even let you skate if you had them like third or fourth, but you have them. There's no Nick somewhere right now is going. You tell him, Colin.

[Rick Bucher]

Well, we're good friends. Okay, how about this?

[Colin Cowherd]

You're stunned at this point.

[Rick Bucher]

Everybody wants to pick a winner and a loser, son. Should have got Suns. Now just have a bunch of guard guards that want the ball in their hands. You know, it's Jalen Green, it's Bradley Beal, it's Booker, it's like it. But if the number 10 pick can play and Jalen Green is productive, we'll see. I do feel like if you could have told me a player for Houston they'll grab. Yeah, I would have said in the whole league, I would have said that guy. Yeah, it feels like a perfect fit.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's. Considering what they gave up, which I don't think was a whole lot. Jalen Green got exposed in the playoffs as not being your go to guy. Dylan Brooks, you got to add into the equation in order to make the numbers work. And only one first round pick. I don't care about the second round picks. That felt like a consolation prize. But I think you're looking at it from the Phoenix end in not a complete way. I don't believe that Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks are long for that team.

[Rick Bucher]

I'm going to keep moving pieces.

[Colin Cowherd]

What they got was movable pieces. And I can see a playoff team needing that last defensive fire starter type.

[Rick Bucher]

That's a buddy of mine going to.

[Colin Cowherd]

Get a Dylan Brooks.

[Rick Bucher]

Absolutely.

[Colin Cowherd]

Or a young team that says, oh, we can get a number two pick in Jalen Green who's still young and the contract is right. Like I see those as additional first round picks. They're in the process of dismantling the Phoenix Suns and this was the best deal that they could make under the circumstances. I still think the ideal place for Kevin Durant would have been the Denver Nuggets and I would have given up Jamal Murray to make that happen. Because the idea of Nikola Jokic being her orchestrator and Aaron Gordon and Kevin Durant flanking him. I'm sure what the. What the Nuggets offered was Michael. Some package involving Michael Porter and Peyton Watson and a pick or whatever. And this was more attractive. The Houston. Houston package was. But if I'm Kevin Durant and I have my choice between the two and Kevin did drive this. I mean, it's why.

[Rick Bucher]

That's what it sounds like.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. It's why they had to make the best deal possible. If I was Kevin, I would have been looking at Denver rather than Houston.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. And they also have enough length. He. He doesn't have to play 75 games. He doesn't have to be. He doesn't have to be a rim protector. They got a lot of length and a lot of you.

[Colin Cowherd]

He doesn't have to be a leader.

[Rick Bucher]

That's exactly.

[Colin Cowherd]

Doesn't have to be a leader.

[Rick Bucher]

He can be a scorer and that's when he's at his best.

[Colin Cowherd]

Between IME Odoka and Fred Van Vliet and the culture that they have created, all he has to do is go in and do what he likes to do, which is to hoop.

[Rick Bucher]

So the draft is Wednesday and you know, I think this is a very strong domestic draft. There are people who I've been following for years who say there are 12 players who have potential and the right fit could be all star level players. It does sound like a. One of the Rutgers kids. The kid going Harper2 I think is really an interesting player. Don't know about the bigger kid. Doesn't have assists, not a playmaker, not showing up to workouts. What are you hearing about the draft? Do you think there'll be movement? Because we see this in the NFL, Rick, where you have weak. This past draft was a weak draft.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

This appears to be one of the stronger drafts in the last five years.

[Colin Cowherd]

And depth wise, I don't know that there are any like franchise changers. There's probably going to be one because.

[Rick Bucher]

There always is Cooper flag.

[Colin Cowherd]

But I don't think he's a, I don't think he's, I think he, he's part of a core. I don't think he's your number one.

[Rick Bucher]

Wow.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't think he's a number one.

[Rick Bucher]

You don't think he's as good as Jason Tatum? All the numbers back and forth in.

[Colin Cowherd]

Terms of exactly where Jason, Jason Tatum is a number one with the right pieces around him. Right. So yeah. Can he kind of be that? Yeah, I can put him in the.

[Rick Bucher]

Jason, He's a more aggressive offensive player than Tatum and a better defender at this point.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, I would agree with that. He's got a little more nasty too than Tatum does.

[Rick Bucher]

No question about that.

[Colin Cowherd]

I, I need to see how his athlete, the level of his athleticism because I think that what he was able to get done at Duke and at the college level is because of his size and his length was a, was such a significant advantage. He's big, but he's going to play that 3, 4 and, and you've got to be super quick and athletic to play that in today's game. I need to see whether his, whether he has enough of that. And the other, the other part that always makes a little nervous is that he already has a very refined Game. His, his skills are already at a really high level. How much better can he get in those categories? I think that's going to be the question.

[Rick Bucher]

I think he's. When I watched him at Duke, my takeaway was always, wow, he's aggressive and he is long. He's a big, big kid.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

That's what makes him a good defender. He can match up with and he.

[Colin Cowherd]

Knows how to use his length. So. Yeah, no, no. I like him as a two way player. I like, like if you were asking me can he be the core of a championship team? Based on what I've seen, sure. I think he has all the ingredients. Can he lead a championship team? That's what I would. That's what I need to see. And I don't know if he has that elite athletic ability that is necessary to fit that.

[Rick Bucher]

Finally. I've been on this for years. The playoffs started April 15th, ten days before the draft and they just wrapped up. Ten weeks is a long time. With a $76 billion deal, everybody's going to eat. We don't need seven game first rounders. We had eight Achilles tears, three in the playoffs. The game now has more spacing, more movement, more herky jerky. Among greater athletes, players don't play themselves into shape. I think the NBA has to look at these injuries and go guys and baseball's done this and they've all worked.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

We do not need 10 weeks of the playoffs. We do not need seven game first rounders. You know, these Achilles tears, that's an old man injury. That's a wear and tear injury.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I won. I don't know that that's the solution. I agree with you that the wear and tear, that this is a byproduct of the way the game is played now. It's more athletic than ever. It's more up and down. There is more stress. I would say that Tyrese Halliburton, the reason that he had that injury, much the same way that kd, was because they made a run to the Eastern Conference finals last year and they were in the finals this year. Back to back years. The way the game is played now, when you have players that you rely on as much as the, the Pacers do in Tyrese Halliburton in order to push the tempo, you open yourselves up to this. I believe they have to look at much like what OKC has done and in part what Indiana has done, is that your depth and versatility of your, of your team is the answer. Your roster is the answer to being able to survive a season and a long playoff run. The reason that I don't like the idea of shortening it is because I do believe that grind and enduring the season and the postseason is part of what makes you a champion. And we would be changing the metric in terms of how a championship team.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah, ultimately we don't care about the stats like that, do we?

[Colin Cowherd]

Honestly, I think that LeBron wants it to go to 40 minutes because he knows that it will take everybody out of ever challenging any of his numbers. So that was Shade right there. I'm. Yes, that was Shade. This is. I'm getting back to the beginning with your Lakers. Your, your Lakers take.

[Rick Bucher]

You always tell me you're such a LeBron fan. It sounds like it.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think the roster, I think the rosters. I. That's a whole nother subject. I think the Ross, they, they have to accept that the rosters need to be expanded and that GMs have to do a better job of understanding the way the game's played. We have to do what OKC in Indiana did, which is we have to get into the idea that we're going to play nine and 10 man rotations.

[Rick Bucher]

In the playoffs, which has never been done.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes. I think the reason you saw the last two teams standing was because of how they approached it.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. Great stuff. Rick Bucher. I love my list. Lakers number one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh my God.

[John Middlekauff]

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[Rick Bucher]

I've been around long enough to know.

[John Middlekauff]

Quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmicks. Smooth, clean tasting. Made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail.

[Rick Bucher]

I like to keep it simple. Tito's soda, one lime, a lot of ice.

[John Middlekauff]

Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here.

[Rick Bucher]

The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's.

[John Middlekauff]

It's what I pour.

[Rick Bucher]

You should, too.

[John Middlekauff]

Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume.

[Rick Bucher]

Savor responsibly.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an I Heart podcast.