Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – "Best of The Herd" (Released August 6, 2025)

The "Best of The Herd" episode of Colin Cowherd’s popular sports podcast delves into the latest happenings in the NFL, focusing primarily on the Cleveland Browns' quarterback situation and features an insightful interview with former NFL star Philip Rivers. This comprehensive summary captures the episode's key discussions, analyses, and noteworthy quotes.

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1. Cleveland Browns’ Quarterback Conundrum

Timestamp: [03:01] – [17:02]

Colin Cowherd opens the episode by addressing the ongoing controversy surrounding the Cleveland Browns' decision to start Shedeur Sanders as the quarterback for the upcoming game against the Carolina Panthers. The discussion centers on allegations of sabotage orchestrated by Coach Kevin Stefanski, who is accused of limiting Sanders' practice time to hinder his performance.

• Cowherd’s Argument: He posits that Sanders is being unfairly treated, especially when compared to other quarterbacks like Josh Dobbs and Baker Mayfield, who have succeeded despite minimal practice time. Colin criticizes the media and network narratives labeling Stefanski’s actions as sabotage, arguing instead that it's a strategic move to evaluate Sanders under challenging circumstances.

  "Shador Sanders has been with the Browns through OTAs, rookie mini camp and training camp. He knows the playbook, the head coach, the coordinator and his teammates. And because he only gets one practice with the ones, it's sabotage." ([03:45])

• Comparative Analysis: Colin draws parallels to previous instances where quarterbacks thrived with limited preparation, suggesting that Stefanski is providing Sanders with a valuable opportunity rather than undermining him.

  “Baker Mayfield came to the Rams on a Tuesday, had to play Thursday against the Raiders. 98-yard, fourth-quarter, game-winning drive with a single practice in the highly sophisticated Sean McVay offense.” ([04:10])

• Strategic Implications: The conversation explores the Browns' broader strategy, including the potential to draft promising players like Arch Manning or Drew Allen by leveraging additional draft picks, positioning Sanders as a short-term solution to ongoing quarterback injuries.

  “The perfect scenario actually is he plays kind of well, establishes himself as a backup. You move off Kenny Pickett, get a draft pick...” ([06:00])

2. Ben Johnson’s Remarks on Caleb Williams and Backup Tyson Padgett

Timestamp: [09:23] – [15:35]

The discussion shifts to Ben Johnson’s recent comments regarding quarterback Caleb Williams and his backup, Tyson Padgett. Colin criticizes the language Johnson used, suggesting it implicitly undermines Williams' capabilities.

• Colin’s Critique: He questions the intent behind Johnson’s praise of Padgett, implying it subtly signals Williams’ deficiencies.

  “It was kind of, you know, it was a little over the top. Locked in, prepared, focused, smart as a whip. That's a little.” ([11:05])

• Implications for Team Dynamics: Colin highlights the potential negative impact of such statements on team morale and the perception of Williams within the organization.

  “Ben Johnson has worked with the number one pick before Jared Goff and he's now worked with undrafted quarterback Tyson Bajan...” ([11:45])

• Caleb Williams’ Performance: An analysis of Williams’ recent performances, noting recurring issues with "hero ball" and mechanical inconsistencies stemming from mistrust in the offensive line.

  “Compared to the second year when he started playing hero ball, he got into really bad habits...” ([14:10])

3. Chicago Bears’ Offensive Challenges

Timestamp: [17:02] – [28:41]

Colin examines the Chicago Bears' offensive struggles, particularly focusing on the integration of Caleb Williams into the team and the challenges Coach Ben Johnson faces in revamping the offense.

• Cultural Overhaul: Colin refers to Johnson as the "Janitor," emphasizing his role in cleaning and restructuring the team’s offensive strategies.

  “Ben Johnson, nickname should be the Janitor. He's just trying to clean stuff off in Chicago.” ([17:36])

• Comparison with Other Coaches: Drawing comparisons to other NFL coaches like Matt LaFleur and Andy Reid, Colin underscores the immense pressure and complexity Johnson faces in turning around the Bears’ fortunes.

  “Chicago is a big loud market, you know, rival with the Packers. It's a big, big lift.” ([17:58])

• Future Prospects: The conversation anticipates the Bears’ draft strategy, emphasizing the need for additional picks to secure promising talent like Arch Manning to bolster the team’s competitiveness.

  “They need as many picks as they can. If they win five games, have the number two pick to give up the house to get Arch Manning.” ([16:50])

4. Interview with Philip Rivers: Legacy and Next Generation

Timestamp: [31:06] – [48:57]

In a highlight of the episode, Colin interviews Philip Rivers, former NFL quarterback and current high school coach, discussing his transition from player to mentor, and insights into his son's budding football career.

• Philip Rivers’ Coaching Philosophy: Rivers emphasizes the importance of passion and intensity in developing young quarterbacks, highlighting his son's, Gunner Rivers, dedication and natural aptitude.

  “I do think that the passion and the fire and the intensity was genuine.” ([32:51])

• Innate Skills vs. Learned Abilities: The discussion delves into the balance between inherent quarterback traits and those that can be cultivated through coaching and practice.

  “There are some things, you know, being able to have to be accurate, you can work on accuracy.” ([37:13])

• Gunner Rivers’ Development: Rivers shares anecdotes about coaching his son, noting Gunner’s alignment with his own playing style while also benefiting from the evolved nature of the modern game.

  “The game has just changed so much... he’s just thrown the football in a competitive environment a whole lot more.” ([43:31])

• Legacy and Mentorship: Rivers reflects on his lengthy NFL career, his reliability as a player, and his aspirations to instill similar values in his son and other young athletes.

  “The best ability is dependability. And that was one thing I was going to be, I was going to be out there every week.” ([48:10])

5. Final Thoughts and Concluding Remarks

Timestamp: [48:56] – End

Colin wraps up the episode by commending Philip Rivers on his coaching achievements and the promising future of Gunner Rivers. He briefly touches upon additional topics, including product endorsements, ensuring listeners are left with a comprehensive overview of the day's discussions.

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Notable Quotes:

• “Shador Sanders has been with the Browns through OTAs, rookie mini camp and training camp. He knows the playbook, the head coach, the coordinator and his teammates. And because he only gets one practice with the ones, it's sabotage.” — Colin Cowherd ([03:45])

• “You don't want to go overboard in the backup. Be like, hey, he's a hustler. He's going to be a great backup for us.” — Colin Cowherd ([11:05])

• “There are some things you can't make vast improvements. Some guys just, you know, you can't improve them to elite levels.” — Philip Rivers ([37:13])

• “The best ability is dependability. And that was one thing I was going to be, I was going to be out there every week.” — Philip Rivers ([48:10])

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Conclusion:

In this episode of "The Herd," Colin Cowherd provides a critical analysis of the Cleveland Browns' quarterback strategies and delves into the pressures faced by teams like the Chicago Bears in a competitive NFL landscape. The highlight interview with Philip Rivers offers valuable insights into quarterback development, blending personal legacy with the future of the sport. Listeners are treated to a blend of strategic sports analysis and personal narratives that underscore the complexities of modern football.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Learn more@electric for all.org why are TSA rules so confusing?

[Devin]

You got a hoodie on.

[Colin Cowherd]

Take it all. I'm Manny. I'm Noah, this is Devin, and we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such Thing, where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming? I can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same, go off on me.

[Devin]

I deserve it, you know?

[Jason McIntyre]

Lock him up.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Devin]

No Such Thing.

[Lizzie Logan]

Have you ever looked at a piece of abstract art or music or poetry and thought that's just a bunch of pretentious nonsense? That's exactly what two bored Australian soldiers set out to prove during World War II when they tricked the literary world with their intentionally bad poetry, setting off a major scandal. We break down the truth, the lies, and the poetry in between on Hoax, a new podcast hosted by me, Lizzie Logan and me, Dana Schwartz.

[Dana Schwartz]

Every episode, Hoax explores an audacious fraud.

[Lizzie Logan]

Or ruse from history. Listen to Hoax on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon.

[Jason McIntyre]

To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific.

[Colin Cowherd]

Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Devin]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[Colin Cowherd]

Here we go. It is a Wednesday and we are live in August in living color, ready to roll. A lot of things happening today. Joe Thomas stops by. Weigh in on Shador Sanders, who's getting the Friday against Caroline. I'll get to that in a second. Philip Rivers is stopping by the show as well. One of the great trash talkers of all time. Many, many subscribe to the belief he is a Hall of famer. Some do, some don't. But an interesting guy. He'll be joining us. J. Mack I don't like to lecture the American sports media, but I've said this before. In politics there's a lot of conspiracy theories and I'm hoping that in our business sports we try stay away from those. But there's one that's dangling out there that is patently absurd right now and here it is. So Shador Sanders, Kevin Stefanski, they've had all sorts of quarterback injuries. He's going to start Friday and he's only had one pr. He'll only have one practice with the ones and he's going to start. And this is now being called sabotage. And this is not just like crazy Internet dweeb, it's like network people. It's sabotage. Cleveland doesn't want him to succeed. Okay, let's start with this. Josh Dobbs was acquired by the Minnesota Vikings and had to start and did not get a single practice. Remember that game? Three touchdowns, no picks, 102 passer rating, completed 66% of his throws. Didn't know the playbook, teammates, coordinator, coach, didn't get a practice, won a game. Baker Mayfield were frenemies now. Baker Mayfield came to the Rams on a Tuesday, had to play Thursday against the Raiders. 98 yard, fourth quarter, game winning drive with a single practice in the highly sophisticated Sean McVay offense. A timing offense, a rhythm offense, one practice. Shador Sanders has been with the Browns through OTAs, rookie mini camp and training camp. He knows the playbook, the head coach, the coordinator and his teammates. And because he only gets one practice with the ones, it's sabotage. You've got to be kidding me. Stop pandering. Stop protecting media. The great ones would consider this an amazing opportunity and he probably does. But we got to stop this. If I was Kevin Stefanski and they're hemorrhaging quarterbacks because of injuries and we don't need to see Joe Flacco, the last thing we need to see is Joe Flacco. I would make an argument. Well, rich dad, famous dad, let's give him a little turbulence. Let's give him a little challenge here. So if Kevin Stefanski and I don't think that's the reason they're doing it, but I could absolutely see a coach saying famous, rich. I mean, wasn't it. Wasn't it Shedeur, who called himself legendary in the draft room? Let's see if he is. But the idea at some level of sabotage, maybe Kevin wants to just see what his speed limit is. The other part of this that's ridiculous is how many reps to first team guys play in the preseason. He's going to end up playing with twos, threes and fours, which is what he's practicing with Cleveland. And there's not. If you look at Cleveland's wide receiving core, they're not a big gap between the ones, twos, threes and fours. It's one of the worst receiving cores in the league and they're dealing with massive injuries at quarterback. So there's absolutely no value in screwing over Shador Sanders. He may not be the future, but the perfect scenario actually is he plays kind of well, establishes himself as a backup. You move off Kenny Pickett, get a draft pick, probably a fifth or sixth, seventh rounder, and then at the end of the year, because he's shown himself to be a capable backup, you get another six, seventh round pick for Jadour, and that gives you more picks to get Arch Manning or Drew Aller or the Nussmeier kid at lsu. That's all Cleveland's doing this year. They know they're not good. They would love Shador Sanders. I mean, would there be a better story for Cleveland if you said perfect scenario? Well, perfect scenario is getting Arch Manning next year. But to get him, you'll need extra picks. The perfect scenario to get you some help out from under that awful desean Watson contract is Shador is good this year and Arch Manning is great next year. You're home free. That's what Denver did with Vonix. Oh, the Russell Wilson dead cat money. Oh, Bo Nix is good and he's mostly free. So the idea, I mean, first of all, sabotage, is Kevin Stefanski is trying to retain his job. The owner, I don't know if you've noticed, is a little impulsive in Cleveland, right? There's Nick Saban, rumors there's a connection between the Mannings and Saban and Jimmy Haslam and Jimmy Sexton. So this is just a ridiculous story. I mean, I'M not a huge fan of Brock Purdy, but Brock Purdy was third string and then Trey Lance wasn't good quickly he was second. Then Garoppolo gets hurt in the game and he's thrust into the starting role mid game. He had no reps with a one couple 10 days earlier. He's a three and he took advantage of it. That's what the great athletes do. They have a level of arrogance and belief that they look at this as an opportunity. And I think Shador probably does. But. But the idea that this is like gaining steam multiple day trending well, you know, they don't want to see him succeed. It's Cleveland, the world's best scenario. He looks great against Carolina. They can move Kenny Pickett, get a six round pick and then move Chador next year and get another one. They need as many picks as they can. If they win five games, have the number two pick to give up the house to get Arch Manning. Here's Kevin Stefanski on Shador. The situation of the start coming up.

[Kevin Stefanski]

We'Ll play Shador at quarterback. We just signed Snoop Huntley. As you guys saw. We'll see. Get Snoop back up to speed. My expectations for Shador are no different than the rest of the guys. Honestly, Mary Kay, we expect them to go operate. It's when you get in these preseason games, you try to keep it very simple so that guys can play fast. All concepts that our players know and can kind of not think too much and just play ball.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Josh Dobbs. No practices. Baker Mayfield won in by the way. McVeigh system and Kevin O' Connell's system. Those are complex system. No practice. One practice. And Baker and Josh Dobbs saw it as an unbelievable opportunity and both crushed. Okay, so I'm just doing basically daily updates on Caleb Williams. So whenever I see the word sloppy, it's always like, well, it's sloppy. A lack of focus, a lack of effort. So Ben Johnson said he was saying Sunday after Caleb Williams performance, he said, you know, we're sloppier than I'd want to be at this point. We had a couple good practices. We had a step back. I just, I. We're not where we want to be at this point. Okay, okay, okay, fine. Okay, okay, fine. But did you hear what he said about Caleb Williams backup Tyson Padgett?

[Devin]

Man, he's been, he's been phenomenal. I mean he's smart as a whip. Appreciate the seriousness and intent that he brings every time he walks into a room, you know, meeting room, walkthrough it doesn't matter. He's locked in, he's focused, he's preparing the right way. And I couldn't be more thrilled that he's here with us.

[Colin Cowherd]

Tyson Bagen. Okay, so now just think about that. Coaches with young quarterbacks tend to be very careful with their words, very intentional. He's serious, he's focused, he's locked in. Smart as a whip. The other guy is sloppy. I'm sorry if a director of a film says right now our lead actor, you've got to be patient, but boy, I'll tell you, the supporting cast, they are locked in and focused, that's insinuating the lead isn't locked in. I don't know, it's something. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to connect these dots, right? I think it's, I think we have to be honest about this. Ben Johnson has worked with the number one pick before Jared Goff and he's now worked with undrafted quarterback Tyson Ben. Okay, so he's got, you know, the variables of what he's worked with are pretty wide. So he's seen gifted and he's seen hard working. And now I read something recently which I thought was an interesting take and sorry for not giving it credit, but it was an interesting take. Somebody said that Ben Johnson and Caleb was always going to be a little rough because Ben Johnson, like a Kyle Shanahan, has a precise precision based offense. Jared Goff was second in NFL completion percentage last season. Here's the play. Follow the play. Follow my scheme. Distribute the ball accurately. That's Ben Johnson. That's what Kyle Shanahan loves. That's what Kyle Shanahan loves. Okay? And Caleb's the opposite of that stylistically. So there is an argument out there that these two, what Ben has coached so far is actually more Shanahan esque, more, more schematic based. Follow the play. You can add lib a little, but by the way, Sean Payton, he wants you to run his play and that's not really Caleb's style. So that the two are not an ideal fit. That does not mean they can't work. But I, but I do think, let's be honest, if this thing is ugly, Ben Johnson came to Chicago with a prenup. He's going to win this divorce. Okay? He's, he's the boy genius. He multiple teams interested in. Caleb's already had a bad year. If he struggled with a second coaching staff, you start pointing at the quarterback. So it's just, I don't know, it's not that big of a deal that, you know, Caleb was a little sloppy. Okay. But the other guy, boy, is he locked in. Kind of felt intentional, like he was trying to say something. But again, I don't want to be out here throwing heaters, J. Mac. That's not what I do. I'm not out here to ruffle feathers. But it. It was kind of, you know, it's a little over the top. Locked in, prepared, focused, smart as a whip. That's a little. Wouldn't you have just thought of, like, I'm not going to go overboard in the backup. Be like, hey, he's. He's a hustler. He's going to be a great backup for us. He is. He is doing a great job. A little intentional in the wording.

[Dana Schwartz]

I think he's sending a message pretty clearly, right? I mean, that's. That's the goal here. We got to get Caleb up to speed. He's sloppy. It's not working. Let me ask you, Colin. We brought up the whole, will Caleb be benched this year?

[Devin]

I'm gonna.

[Dana Schwartz]

I'm gonna fast track it. Will he be benched once before Halloween? So we're talking first eight weeks of the season. Will Ben be so fed up, he's like, caleb, I'm pulling you.

[Colin Cowherd]

I. I don't know. I'm not gonna bet that I.

[Dana Schwartz]

You're afraid, huh?

[Colin Cowherd]

Because you think you could. Actually, no, I just think I. I think what I've read in recent days, and I think it's a fair take, is that Caleb style, and he got into some really bad habits, as we've discussed, his second year at usc because he didn't trust the O line. They got blown out at Notre Dame. Lincoln Riley didn't want to get him hurt. Lincoln didn't trust the O line. Caleb didn't trust the O line. He got into really bad habits of hero ball. Got really bad. His. His tape was probably better the year before, even though he was a year younger than the second year when he started playing hero ball. And when you do hero ball, your mechanics struggle. And then last year's staff wasn't capable enough to correct that stuff. I think Ben Johnson is and is holding him accountable. But I do think it's interesting, the wording used for the backup, Tyson Bajan. I just think the wording was fairly intentional. Yeah.

[Devin]

Colin.

[Dana Schwartz]

I will note we're now on two straight seasons, as you just noted, of hero ball and bad football from Caleb Williams. He was bad in his final year at usc. We would Agree with. And he was not good last year as a rookie. So that's two straight football seasons of subpar football.

[Colin Cowherd]

I, I think, I think, you know, Ben Johnson, nickname should be the Janitor. He's just trying to clean stuff off in Chicago. He's trying to clean up the culture. He's trying to clean up the offense. He's trying to clean up the offensive line. He's trying to clean up Caleb Williams. This, this, this is a heavy lift that he's got a lot of stuff to clean up. Could take a year. Yeah. And by the way, Vrabel does in New England as well. But Vrabel's got a quarterback that looked pretty good. They had $300 million they spent on free agency. So Vrabel's got to clean some stuff up. But that franchise has a history with that ownership of winning a lot of big games. But Chicago's not winning big games. They don't have the culture. They can't get the old line right. They can't get quarterback right. And now they've got Caleb. There's some urgency issues. So there's a. This is not an easy. Matt LaFleur taken over for Mike McCarthy and trying to get on Aaron Rodgers good side. That was a pretty easy lift. That was a pretty. I mean, you got to get on Aaron's good. So Aaron was closer to his prime. Aaron just wanted a new guy. Generationally, they were closer in age. Chicago is a big lift. This is not an easy job.

[Dana Schwartz]

Remember, Drake May was not brought in to save the Patriots. He was not a generational talent. Caleb Williams asked to do both of those things. People were asking, would Caleb be the greatest quarterback in franchise history? Nobody said that about. Nobody saying that about. There's no pressure on Drake May. Like I do think Caleb is going to start to feel the weight of what's going on in Chicago.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, no, I do think this is. And it's also Chicago. It's a big loud market, you know, rival with the Packers. It's a big, big lift. I mean, nobody thought Bo Nix is going to be John Elway. Nobody thinks he's Peyton Manning. Sean Payton just wants him to be as close to Drew Brees as he can get to get this organization winning again. So Bo Nix doesn't have a lot of pressure. Washington was a dumpster fire during Daniel Snyder's ownership. There wasn't a huge pressure on him. Drake May isn't viewed as Brady, so. And even Michael Penix, when you drop, you know, when you go to Atlanta, how much pressure is it. You could argue it's an SEC market as much as an NFL market. You could argue there is. There is heat on Caleb Williams.

[Dana Schwartz]

JJ McCarthy probably has the second most pressure from that class given that they won 14 games with Darnold last year.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, that's fair. I would say that that's totally fair.

[Devin]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app hey, this is Jason McIntyre.

[Dana Schwartz]

Join me every weekday morning on my podcast Straight fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod, pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight Fire gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the Sportsbook and all the best guests. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight fire with Jason McIntyre on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I've talked about this before, and it just. It's the way our brains usually work. The more beautiful or aesthetically pleasing something is, film, art, sports, the greater stature we hold it in. A great example is Larry Bird had a beautiful game. The three point shots, the clever passing. I mean, who doesn't love watching old Larry Bird highlights? You watch old Tim Duncan highlights. Magic bird. M.J. Dr. J. Aesthetically pleasing. We think of them so fondly. Tim Duncan. There's an argument was, you know, is better than all of them. There's an argument, but it wasn't pleasing. I always said this about Brady. Brady retires. Brady wasn't beautiful to watch. He was smart, he was efficient. He got rid of the ball quickly. The minute he retires, five minutes later, Mahomes is better. It's like, no, Tom. They played a couple times, like in a Super bowl, in a big AFC showdown in the playoffs. Tom won both of them. Yeah. In Kansas City, Super Bowl. Yeah Tom won both and has more trophies and is the greatest quarterback of all time. But the minute Tom's out Mahomes because Mahomes game he's throwing left handed the sidearm stuff. It's a beautifully aesthetically pleasing game. And I've always said it's hard with athletes like that when they get old. Like with Brady. Like at 44 he felt like he was 34 because he was still smart, still efficient, still got rid of it quickly and and but like with Aaron Rodgers, his resume is how you view him, not his reality. So there is another story out of Pittsburgh. Christopher Barbrey of SteelerNation.com raising red flags on Aaron's training camp. It sounds so much like the Jets. Not enough balls down the field, too many short passes and checks, now check downs and he doesn't trust a number two receiver yet. That's the Jets. Here's the thing, you're not into reality with Aaron because he's so beautiful to watch throw the ball. It's Marino and Aaron throw the prettiest ball ever. Peyton Manning doesn't, Tom Brady doesn't. And so you're all into the resume. You have such fond memories and not the reality. Do you know that since 2022, Aaron's last year in Green Bay he has fewer big plays downfield than Derek Carr? You think of Derek Carr, you're a ding dunk guy. But Derek's not beautiful to watch. Aaron is. And so this is what I've said about this team. Aaron's 41 year old guy, he don't want to get hit. He didn't trust the Jets O line, he got rid of it. He doesn't trust the Steelers O line. He shouldn't pff this morning had the Steelers O line under the Jets O line last year and going into this season he doesn't trust them and he shouldn't. Defensive head coaches can struggle with O lines. Robert Sala like him. Mike Tomlin like him O lines can't figure it out. McVay figures it out in an offseason. So does Andy Reid, so does Sean Payton. Sean Payton fixed the Denver o line in four months and so 41 year old wealthy quarterbacks, there are certain things that are true. They don't want to get hit. And 61 year old rich guys, there are things that are true. They don't want to change their oil, they don't want to go to the dmv. They don't want to sit in coach on a plane. There are just truths about as you age if you are financially comfortable. Aaron, he don't want to get hit. And DK Metcalf is their only proven star receiver. So your teams are going to roll the coverage over and say beat us with Scotty Miller, beat us with a run game. Trust your offensive line. Sit in the pocket. Like you can see what's going to happen here. So as I've said before, it's not right now the Steelers defense, which is good. It's not great. Let's not kid ourselves. It's not Philadelphia last year. It's not that good. It's good. Tomlin's good at it. It's not that good is dominating Aaron in practice. And I think a lot of this is Aaron's rich 41 close to the end and he didn't want it. He doesn't trust that offensive line. You're not going to sit in there for an extra second, an extra beat. I don't blame him. Here's Tomlin on the Steelers offense.

[Devin]

I just think it's usual for this time of year. Defenses usually develop a little faster than offenses to get to know the cohesion that's required to be good. It's just a component of it and so no alarm bells there.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay? He's right. For the record. Defense, which is more about playing fast and blowing stuff up. It's, it's, you know, they talk about this in baseball, like pitching can be ahead of hitting or vice versa. Defense is usually ahead of offense. It's not in Cincinnati, by the way, with Joe Burrow, according to reports, but that's some of it. But I think the bigger picture is the reality of a 41 year old who's recently had a big surgery with an old line he doesn't trust. I would be the same way as Aaron Rodgers. I'm not sitting in there for an extra second.

[Devin]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I've been thinking about this interview. Last couple of days. They told me I get Philip Rivers, who was so animated as a player, first round pick by the Giants, traded for Eli Manning on draft day, and they both end up having absolutely remarkable careers. He is now the football coach and has been for several years in Alabama at St. Michael Catholic. His son now is the quarterback and a good one. Philip Rivers is now joining us live today. You know, I gotta tell the audience, I don't. I've never seen your son play, but his name is Gunner Rivers, and I'm telling you right now, that's a franchise quarterback name. I would draft him sight unseen on that, just on the name. Now, you were a trash talker and you had a different delivery. Does he have your kind of sidearm delivery? Is he a little trash talker? Does he, does he have some of the Philip Rivers classic traits?

[Devin]

Hey, Colin, how's it going? Yeah, no, he, he definitely, he definitely has some of the same traits. He's a little more traditional throwing the football than, than I, than I was. But a lot of people see him throw and go, dang, you throw just like your dad. So he has a little bit of that. I guess it's just genetic. And then he's a little more reserved than I am. He has the fire and passion for the game, but I think he's got his mom's calmness, which, which will probably serve him well.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think everybody, very few people had your intensity on the field. You know, it's amazing. You were a trash talker, but players, even opponents, loved you. Did you think your intensity, you're obviously talented. Did you think your passion and intensity was your best trait?

[Devin]

It was, it was probably one of them, I think, you know, I had to, had to. I had to a little bit toe the line. I probably crossed the line a few times. You know, I think there's a, there's a, there's a, you know, a line that you don't want to cross to, where you maybe are not helping yourself or your team. So I'm sure that I didn't always keep that in check. But I do think that the passion and the fire and the intensity was genuine. I don't think. I know it was genuine and I do think it was felt by our teammates and in some regard helped, you know, fuel kind of our personality and our, you know, resiliency and how we, how we went about the game. And then you mentioned our opponents. I mean, I hope, you know, you gain, you Obviously gain respect of your opponent, overdoing it for a long period of time. So maybe not early on, but I think as time grew, you gained that respect and they realized, man, this dude loves to play football. And that's really all it was. There's a guy playing football in the backyard and I just never let that leave me. Although we were playing, you know, in front of, you know, a million people there on a Sunday afternoon.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, the. You told me one time, and I've used this whenever I give a speech, I always say the great Philip Rivers told me he liked the process of building the game plan as much as the game. And can you instill that in your son or a young quarterback? Or do you think that was just your dad was a football coach? Do you think that's God given and innate that you loved practice? I can you. If you, if a guy. Some of these quarterbacks I think like the game. I'm not sure they love practice. Can you teach that or did you feel that was just in you from day one?

[Devin]

Well, I do think that there was a, some of that that was just in me. But I think you got to, you better grow to, to, to love it, to love the process, especially playing this position, you know, if you want to be great and, and you know, and maybe I didn't get to get to great, but I know I was pretty dang good for a long time. And I don't think you can get there if you just think you're going, you know, show up and go out there and play for three and a half hours on a Sunday afternoon. And so the, you know, the process of every day and the chance to be on the grass with your buddies practicing football, you know, and sitting in a meeting room and figuring out, you know, spags is blitz patterns and Rex Ryan's blitz patterns and all these and like figuring out how we're going to get this thing picked up. To throw a touchdown to Antonio Gates, I mean that's, that's, that's what, that's a blast. Or even a third down conversion versus Zimmers, you know, a double mug scheme. I mean those things were so fun to work on all week. And then when it came to in the game, you know, there were some, some of the most gratifying plays on a Sunday afternoon were the ones the fans didn't even realize, but it was the behind the scenes preparations, you know, and it's those, those, the Saturday morning walkthroughs, the bus rides, all those things that lead up to the game I certainly love to play. I loved the games and running out of the tunnel and all those things that I used to ask my mom and dad, hey, introduce me. You know, I'm coming out and we're playing so ever, you know, whoever and they would introduce me and I'd come running out down the hall, you know, getting introduced. So I loved that part. I'll be clear on that. But it was the process that made that part so special. And so. But I just don't know how you play quarterback and don't. Aren't all in on the process. If you're trying to be, you know, trying to be, you know, one of.

[Colin Cowherd]

The best, you know, it's. I have said this, one of the things I do think you can become more accurate with coaching. I think your footwork can improve with coaching. But there is one thing that I just think is innate. Certain quarterbacks, Mahomes, you could see this instantly. Patrick can see the field. He just sees the field. You did, Breeze did, Brady obviously did. And then I'll watch some young guys and I'm like, I don't know if they, I don't know if they can see it like there. And I know there's a film study. Did you get. Did you always have that because you were a good high school college coach, the ability to. And I've heard this said about you and I've heard this said about Peyton and Brady that when a play was over, you could look at the right side of the field and yet you knew what was going on and could see the left side of the field without staring at it. The great quarterbacks have this innate ability. They just, there's a rhythm to the secondary. And I guess my question is, are there. Can you teach that you had an innate feel for the position? Are there some things, Philip, that aren't teachable?

[Devin]

Yeah, I mean, I think that. I think yes. I mean I think there's certain things that are. That and talents that so many guys have in so many different positions that are God given ability. And you can, like you said, I agree 100%. You know, we got to clean up some footwork, we got to clean up some fundamentals. We can clean up how you're reading this. Maybe your eyes are just in the wrong place. But there are some things, you know, being able to have to be accurate, you can work on accuracy. Some people just, they can throw all day long and they just aren't very accurate. And you know, accuracy, anticipation and to be able to see it all and Process it fast. Definitely you can improve it, but you're probably in a window. You know, someone that can't do that, you can't get them to an elite level. Someone that's pretty dang good at it. Maybe you can get them to really good at it, but you can't. I don't think you can. There's. There's certain parts of playing the position that you can't make vast improvements. And some guys, like you mentioned, Mahomes, and, you know, we could go on and on of talking about guys, they're at a certain level already that they are able to process and do those things, coached or not coached. And then now you throw in Andy Reid and some of the other coaches he's had, and now. And the experience that he's gained, and then you can take him to an even, even higher level. But he was already, you know, pretty dang elite at it. So I do agree. I do agree with you on those things. And, you know, it's funny because. And everybody has their process. You know, me and Drew were teammates. We got to connect this weekend. It was great to see Drew, and we had such a different process in terms of our daily routine, but yet they were both. They both worked and. And there's some similarities. But I say that to. Not to mention this about Drew, but just we all have our different routines. But I used to. I wasn't big looking at the iPad off the. You know, coming off the field. Now I would go look at it to see or see the pictures to confirm maybe, or dang, maybe they fooled me. I need to go see it. But a lot of times, you know, it was kind of a running joke. I'd say I saw it live, guys. I just saw it live. I don't need to come back over here and look at it again. Crap. I know I should have gone the other way, you know, so. And again. And that went in an arrogant way. It was just. I saw live, you know, and so certainly I use those tools as needed over there. But, yeah, there is definitely some of that. And I say it in humility because, shoot. I threw it to the other team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Shoot.

[Devin]

200 times or however many times. So I certainly think, all right, decision. But I feel like I did have that ability to see it and process it quickly and throw with anticipation and be accurate.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I have this. I wrote about this in my first book. I've had this theory forever that most of the great quarterbacks, at one point, NC State had three starting quarterbacks in the NFL. And Cal had two or three and USC and Ohio State had none, that there's an argument to be made that when you play at a North Carolina State or a Cal or a Miami of Ohio or a Purdue, that's real life in the NFL. You're getting hit. The windows are small. These USC guys are throwing to wide open wide receivers. You're not doing that at Duke, you're not doing that at NC State. That I think it was an advantage for you to go to NC State instead of an Ohio State. Because the NFL truth is discomfort. Nobody's that open. You don't get great protection, you're getting hit constantly. I used to joke, I remember Matt leinert at USC one year he got sacked 11 times. He may have just fallen down half of those. He barely got touched that when I was. I'll give you an example. J.J. mcCarthy always played with a lead, Michigan, a perfect offensive line. I worry about J.J. 3 years with hardball or 2 years with hardball, he barely got touched. Do you think there's an advantage getting beat up a little bit in college like Mahomes or Josh Allen, then going to the NFL?

[Devin]

I mean, when you. Yeah, I'm sold based on that. That minute of you saying that. I never thought of it that way and I certainly didn't ever feel like I had inferior teammates those years at NC State. But there's a combination of that. Of yeah, maybe. And even more so maybe now you don't have the, you know, all the comparisons you made make perfect sense. But we felt like at NC State we were going to think and win them all. You know, we thought we were going to win them all. So I say that with all due respect to certain teammates I had, because I had many teammates you mentioned the quarterbacks, you know, behind me, the great receiver Tory Holt, many teammates of mine that had long careers in the NFL. But yes, and I think too you get to play, you play more games. You know, I played in 51 college football games, so I definitely felt like even more equipped than had. You go to a place and you only play two years. You play 20 games and you play from a lead and you hand it off and you throw it 18 times. I mean, I throw a hundred. I threw 100 passes in my first two games at NC State with Norm Chow, you know, so. But then, but you're right though, you get to NFL and I was in my first few first week or two of minicamp and. And we had some play on, I don't remember. And I didn't throw the ball. I got to the check down, didn't throw the deep cross or deep over. And, and Cam Cameron said, why didn't you throw it? And I said he's not open. And he said he's wide open. And I was like, dang. Okay. Like that's, there's the windows and the separation. So those things, those things are all true that you say now you take a Matt Leiner to J.J. mcCarthy, a guy that can come from those, you know, historic programs and they can still be. Have unbelievable NFL career be great. So it's not like you can't that way. But is there something to be said for the, you know, the Texas Techs and the Wyomings and NC States of the world? Maybe. Heck yeah. And you know, I definitely think there's something to game experience and playing. Playing. There's no simul. There's nothing, no substitute for playing. You have to play.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. So Antonio Gates makes a Hall of Fame. Speaking of college, never played a college football. Snap. Take me to. It may have been a practice. When was the first moment you're at practice or somewhere with him and you went, who's that guy? Like you knew. How long did it take for you to identify? Whoa, people can't guard him. He's too big for linebackers. He's too, he's too strong for safeties. How long did it take?

[Devin]

Well, not long. I mean, I was in my rookie year and I had a front row seat my first two years, you know, with Drew and Gates. That would have been his, you know, he was a rookie the year before me. And so I got to see it, I got to see it from the sideline, you know, those first two years. And he was one of those guys that, you know, we had a Gates rule. We had a Gates rule. We had, we had the, we had the progression for the play and based off the coverage. And then we said, okay, and this one is Gates rule. And it was. Which meant, hey, if he's singled up, I don't care if the leverage is good for him, he's going to beat them anyway. And it was just that overrode that, that over. You know, the progression was then done. It was overridden by the Gates rule. But he, he had a unique ability to, he was fast and big, but he had a unique ability to understand body position and getting hands off and attacking leverage and doing those things. And, and I, you know, he was always considered this basketball guy. Basketball guy, basketball guy. But I think what he did was he was very humble in saying, crap, I want to be a football guy and I got to learn all this. What is all these coverages and they're bracketing me and where's the help? And what. And once he learned that, then it was, then it was forget about it. And, and that's why he had that stretch, you know, seven or eight, nine year stretch. Obviously he played longer than that and his whole career was awesome, but he had that stretch where he was arguably, you know, just uncoverable.

[Colin Cowherd]

So finally your son, Gunner Rivers is, is. And you can look him up. He's going to be one of those top quarterbacks on all those recruiting things. So you're going to start hearing about him. Do you ever watch him and think, man, he does that a little better than dad did at his age. Is there, is there anything. You're just thinking, man, he may be, he maybe have a little better fastball than dad or he may, he may move a little better than dad.

[Devin]

Oh yeah, that happens. That happens more than you'd think. I think, I think too, the game has just changed so much. You know, you and I talked a little bit off air briefly, you know, 25 years ago, just different. The game is just different than what it is now. There wasn't seven on sevens and you know, we didn't grow up playing flag football. I mean, me and Gunner and, you know, we were playing flag football, playing against teams from Hawaii and Idaho and Arizona and all this when we were in California when he was 10 years old. You know, so you're getting, you're getting to practice that anticipation and accurate accuracy as a 10 year old. And so he's just, he's just thrown the football in a competitive environment a whole lot more because of the day and age of football that we're in. And you know, it's been fun. It's fun. It's fun to coach him and his teammates and be at this, be at the school and coach these guys up and you know, and again, remember the mission is it's more than about the game. I remind these guys it's going to end for you at some point. Most of our guys, it's going to end when they graduate high school and hopefully, you know, Gunner and he does have some teammates that can advance and play college football. But I remind them that even if you get to play for 17 years, it does stop and the clock will end. So it's got to be more than just the X's and O's. You got to learn those, those life lessons that you get from this great sport. And I'm hopeful that I can pass some of that down to these guys and help them be better men for having been in the program.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, you're a class guy. One of my favorite players. 17 years. I was looking at some of your stats. Six most 421 career passing touchdowns, the sixth most in NFL history. 240 consecutive starts in the regular season. That is a lot of starts. Was there ever. Did you ever have a game day when you just felt like crud and started like. Like, did you ever have. I mean, you obviously were not in perfect condition. Did you ever not know an hour before a game if you were going to start?

[Devin]

No, no. I know, but. But, yes, many games where it felt like crud would be an understatement. But thankfully, I mean, again, this isn't me saying, wow, look how tough I was. I really was. I had a lot of. I was blessed with. With health and the ability to go out there every Sunday. I'll just leave it at that. But there were certain Sundays that weren't real fun physically. Work real fun during the week to get there. But again, a lot of great guys up front fight like crazy to keep me clean. And then you just have some injuries you have, and you deal with them and. And you. There was the one, the one record that was one of my favorite growing up. You know, I mentioned the 51 starts in a row at NC State, which at a time, at that time was a record. I think it's been broken. And now These guys played 14, 15 games a year. But one of my favorite records is Brett Favre start streak. And I remember watching that going, man, he's played how many in a row? Man, he's going to get to 300. And I remember just saying, again, this is just. As a competitor, I'm going. I'm going to chase Brett Favre's record. I'm going to get there. And I didn't play those first two years as I sat behind Drew, and I realized ultimately I couldn't get there. But by golly, I was going to find a way to be second, you know, and suit up and be out there if I could every week for our team. And. And I do think there's a, you know, the best ability, as Chuck Amato told us, the best ability is dependability. And that was one thing I was going to be. I was going to be out there. I was going to be out there every week. I was going to be out there every week and give it my all and shoot, I know we fell short plenty of times, but they knew they could count on 17. Get them everything they had for those 240 in a row.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, my favorite interview in a long time. Philip. Absolute pleasure. St. Michael Catholic High School in Alabama. He took over a program that didn't really exist. They just won their first playoff game last year. Congratulations to you and your program, and they are lucky to have you as a coach. Thanks, man.

[Devin]

Thanks, Colin. Enjoyed it.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

You should, too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly. Balancing work, family and education isn't easy. But American Public University makes it possible with online courses, monthly start dates and flexible schedules. APU is designed for busy professionals who need education that fits their lives. And Affordability matters, too. APU offers the Opportunity Grant, giving students 10% off undergraduate and master's level tuition, helping you reach your goals without breaking the bank. Plus, they provide career services and 247 mental health support at no extra cost. Visit Apu Apus. Edu to learn more. That's Apu Apus. Edu. Imagine never buying gas again. EVs are as easy to charge as your phone and perfect for everyday life. Drive daily with confidence everywhere you go. Most Americans drive 40 miles a day. Most EVs are equipped with 200 to 400 miles of range. They've got fewer parts, fewer repairs, and fewer headaches. With hundreds of new and used EV models available today, there's an EV to fit every lifestyle and every budget. I love my electric vehicle. It's easy. No more gas stations. The way forward is electric. Learn more atelectric for all.org this is an iHeart podcast.