Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Title: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Host: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume
Episode: Best of The Herd
Release Date: May 14, 2025

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Introduction

In the "Best of The Herd" episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd, released on May 14, 2025, host Colin Cowherd delves into a comprehensive analysis of the current sports landscape. The episode, rich with insightful commentary and expert opinions, navigates through the latest NFL schedule releases, scrutinizes NBA playoffs dynamics, and features engaging discussions with guests like Michael Hawley. Skipping over advertisements and non-content segments, the episode presents an engaging and informative journey for sports enthusiasts.

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NFL Schedule Release and Team Analyses

Release Overview

Colin Cowherd kicks off the episode by addressing the much-anticipated Wednesday NFL schedule release. Emphasizing its significance, he remarks, “Wednesday, we are live. It's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day” ([02:35]).

Dallas Cowboys vs. Philadelphia Eagles

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the Dallas Cowboys' schedule, particularly their opener against the Philadelphia Eagles. Colin expresses skepticism about the matchup, stating, “the Cowboys are in the opener at Philly... Cowboys are one in five in their last six against Philadelphia” ([03:29]). He criticizes the NFL’s scheduling decisions, highlighting the Cowboys' declining performance: “the Cowboys are the fifth most watched NFL team by the end of this year, maybe sixth” ([03:29]).

Kansas City Chiefs Dominance

Colin underscores the Kansas City Chiefs as the premier NFL team, labeling them “America's team” due to their robust viewership and consistent performance. He notes, “the most watched team in the NFL was Kansas City. The second most watched team in the NFL was Detroit” ([03:29]).

Broadcasting Influence

He further critiques the NFL’s broadcasting preferences, suggesting that the Cowboys' high visibility is artificially maintained: “the only thing keeping the Cowboys TV numbers up is networks putting them on and the NFL putting them on more” ([03:29]). Colin argues that better-performing teams like the Buffalo Bills, Cincinnati Bengals, and Kansas City Chiefs deserve more spotlight, implying that the current focus on the Cowboys is misplaced.

Future Projections

Looking ahead, Colin predicts a shift in viewership rankings, anticipating that “the Cowboys will be the fifth most watched NFL team by the end of this year, maybe sixth” ([03:29]). He attributes this decline to the team’s poor performance and the NFL's flawed scheduling choices.

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NBA Playoffs and Team Dynamics

Transitioning to the NBA, Colin critically examines the current playoff series, particularly focusing on the Denver Nuggets and the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Denver Nuggets vs. Oklahoma City Thunder

Colin praises the Thunder's roster construction and depth, contrasting it with the Nuggets' reliance on a single star, Nikola Jokic. He remarks, “Oklahoma City's got the roster and they just have fresher players at the end of games” ([14:04]). Highlighting a recent competitive game, he states, “OKC won last night, could have lost, game was tied late” ([14:04]).

Roster Construction Over Star Power

Emphasizing the shift in the NBA towards strategic roster building, Colin asserts, “the league is about roster construction” ([03:29]). He lauds teams like Houston, San Antonio, and Boston for their strategic approaches, contrasting them with teams overly reliant on superstars like LeBron James.

Nikola Jokic’s Performance

Critiquing Jokic’s recent performances, Colin shares, “Nikola Jokic: After the loss... but one of the reasons they don't finish as well is because Oklahoma City has so much energy at the end of these games” ([14:04]). He underscores the Thunder's ability to sustain energy and performance throughout games, attributing their success to depth and strategic planning.

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Player Evaluations and Performance Insights

Tyrese Halliburton’s Impact

A significant focus is placed on Tyrese Halliburton, with Colin defending his prowess against critics. He challenges the notion of Halliburton being overrated, emphasizing his leadership and composure: “Tyrese Halliburton is exactly what an NBA star should be... he controls pace, he's mature, high iq, high eq” ([22:28]). Colin praises Halliburton’s ability to maintain execution and efficiency, stating, “He's great in the big moments” ([22:28]).

Jalen Brunson’s Role

Colin also highlights Jalen Brunson as a crucial asset for the Indiana Pacers, praising his playoff experience and clutch performances: “Brunson having played in so many big tournament games at Villanova now in New York, he's just built for the moment” ([25:14]).

Comparative Player Analysis

Comparing Halliburton and other NBA stars, Colin emphasizes the importance of selflessness and team-oriented play over individual flashiness: “Halliburton doesn't end up with that many assists, but he's always sharing the ball” ([22:28]). He contrasts this with players like LeBron James, advocating for efficient execution and team success over individual accolades.

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Interviews and Expert Opinions

Guest: Michael Hawley

Colin engages in an insightful discussion with Michael Hawley, an NBC Sports and New York Times bestselling author. They delve into the Celtics vs. Knicks playoff series, analyzing team performances and managerial decisions.

• Celtics’ Challenges: Michael addresses the Celtics' struggles, noting, “Drew Holiday is unlikely to come back because of these payroll issues” ([43:20]). He critiques the team’s roster decisions, highlighting the impact of injuries and aging players.

• Knicks’ Potential: Discussing the Knicks, Michael acknowledges their defensive strength and physicality, stating, “the Knicks today are better built than the Celtics going forward” ([53:05]). He predicts a favorable outcome for the Knicks, emphasizing their structured approach and team cohesion.

• Indiana Pacers as Championship Contenders: Michael surprises Colin by naming the Indiana Pacers as his top pick for the NBA championship, citing their physicality and strategic gameplay: “I'll tell you who's better than both of them and my pick to win the NBA championship. Indiana Pacers” ([53:33]).

Interview Highlights:

• Playoff Atmosphere: Michael anticipates a mixed crowd at the Celtics’ home games, blending Celtics and Knicks fans, contributing to an intense atmosphere.

• Coach Evaluations: They discuss coaching philosophies, with Colin expressing disappointment in Joe Mazzulla’s strategies, while Michael defends Doc Rivers and others, stressing the importance of organizational support.

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Roster Construction and League Dynamics

Colin elaborates on the evolving dynamics of team building in both the NFL and NBA, emphasizing the shift from star-centric rosters to strategically constructed teams.

NFL Perspectives:

He critiques the traditional focus on acquiring star players, advocating for comprehensive roster development: “it is about roster construction” ([03:29]). Colin highlights the importance of a balanced team, where depth and strategic planning outweigh individual star power.

NBA Strategic Shifts:

Drawing parallels to the NFL, Colin discusses how NBA teams are now prioritizing versatile rosters with multiple high-end players: “it's about roster construction, flexibility, lots of picks” ([03:29]). He praises teams that adapt to the new Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) by focusing on long-term success rather than short-term gains.

Denver Nuggets’ Future:

Colin warns about the Denver Nuggets’ over-reliance on Jokic, suggesting the need for diversification: “Denver needs its next superstar GM or they're the Bucks by the middle of next year” ([03:29]). He advocates for Denver to make significant roster changes to sustain competitiveness.

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Cultural Changes and Analytics in Sports

A notable segment of the episode explores the cultural shifts and the increasing role of analytics in sports strategy.

Analytics vs. Physicality:

Colin expresses concern over the over-reliance on analytics, especially in the NBA, arguing that it sometimes undermines the importance of physicality and leadership: “I love the cultural changes. I love analytics. I would prefer Manhattan... everybody loves Boston because manhynamics hitting an occasional three, but really about physicality, leadership, resilient toughness” ([03:29]).

Impact on Team Performance:

He discusses how teams like the New York Knicks and Boston Celtics balance analytics with traditional basketball values, promoting a more holistic approach to the game: “They are not consumed with points. They're consumed with execution and winning” ([25:14]).

Future of Team Building:

Colin foresees a future where team construction will increasingly rely on strategic flexibility and balanced rosters, integrating both analytical insights and traditional team dynamics to achieve sustained success.

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Conclusion and Final Insights

As the episode wraps up, Colin Cowherd synthesizes the discussions, reiterating the importance of strategic team building and the evolving nature of sports management. He emphasizes that both the NFL and NBA are in periods of significant transition, with teams that adapt strategically poised for long-term success.

Key Takeaways:

• Strategic Roster Construction: Success in modern sports hinges on well-rounded team rosters rather than isolated star performances.

• Adaptation to Change: Teams embracing flexibility and strategic planning are more likely to thrive amidst evolving league dynamics and regulations.

• Cultural Balance: Balancing analytics with traditional values like physicality, leadership, and team cohesion is crucial for sustained success.

Notable Quote:

Colin encapsulates the episode's essence with his observation on roster strategies: “The only way for the little guys to catch up to the big guys is to do things differently” ([41:25]).

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Notable Quotes

• Colin Cowherd: “the Cowboys are in the opener at Philly... Cowboys are one in five in their last six against Philadelphia” ([03:29]).

• Colin Cowherd: “Tyrese Halliburton is exactly what an NBA star should be... he controls pace, he's mature, high iq, high eq” ([22:28]).

• Michael Hawley: “We're not the Belichick we saw. It's actually Belichick stepping back and letting someone else come forward” ([48:59]).

• Michael Hawley: “I'll tell you who's better than both of them and my pick to win the NBA championship. Indiana Pacers” ([53:33]).

• Colin Cowherd: “The only way for the little guys to catch up to the big guys is to do things differently” ([41:25]).

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Final Thoughts

The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers a compelling analysis of current sports trends, blending strategic insights with passionate commentary. By dissecting team performances, player evaluations, and cultural shifts, the episode serves as a valuable resource for fans seeking an in-depth understanding of the evolving sports landscape.

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This summary is intended to provide a comprehensive overview of the "Best of The Herd" episode. For the full experience and detailed discussions, listening to the original podcast is recommended.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[J. Mac]

Listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

Here we go. It is a Wednesday NFL schedule release. Wednesday, we are live. It's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day, J. Mac. I'm going to let you throughout Herdline News today announce a lot of the schedules that are coming out. So tonight's going to be great. I know you're enamored with the Bears schedule. I understand it. I, I'm really interested in the 49ers schedule, but I, you know, it's funny and we'll get to the NBA here in a second, but it's funny that you know how the NBA, they're, they're struggling to move off LeBron at Christmas, right? It's like I'm watching these playoffs. You know who's not involved? LeBron. And I'm glued to the TV set like the NBA needs to next Christmas. I don't need LeBron anymore. And I thought, I thought I'd start.

[J. Mac]

The show with that.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think the NFL and because it's so powerful, the media hates power being concentrated in one business or a few hands. So the media has always been tougher on the NFL and, and more congratulatory and softer on the NBA or, or baseball. They're tough on the NFL. Roger Goodell. Roger Goodell is really smart. It's a really well run league. I thought they made a rare scheduling mistake. Cowboys are in the opener at Philly. A game they never win. In fact, if you go look at those games, the Cowboys are one in five in their last six against Philadelphia. And this is the best Eagles roster in a long time. And it's the worst Cowboys roster in a long time. I don't need to see that game. That feels like November. I do not need to open the NFL. Now there are games you could open with. Then they have the Cowboys against Kansas City on Thanksgiving. I don't need to see that either. Andy Reid and Mahomes against Dak off a second surgery and Brian Schottenheimer doesn't scream. Fascinating. Listen, there are traditions like Thanksgiving I'm not going to bail on. And then there are traditions. The Dallas Cowboys on Thanksgiving we can bail on no more LeBron on Christmas. Frankly, I'd rather watch Tyrese Halliburton OKC Ant. I'm sorry, I would. The Knicks Boston of Tatum comes back. I'd Rather watch those teams. I really would. So it's a quarterback league. We all know Buffalo, Cincinnati, Kansas City. You know, the Bills are just more interesting to watch. And not only do the Cowboys have a second tier head coach, maybe third tier Dax off a second surgery. And so Dak has become much less dynamic as an athlete. He's a little bit like Aaron Rodgers. Now you know the name, the paycheck is more fascinating than the player. Dak's kind of boring. Great guy, great leader. Dak's kind of boring. The Cowboys are kind of boring. And I was looking at the numbers last year and I've been saying this now for two years. Kansas City is America's team. Everywhere I go, I see chief stuff. So last year the most watched team in the NFL was Kansas City. The second most watched team in the NFL was Detroit. And then the Cowboys are now tied for third with San Francisco, Buffalo and Baltimore. Those teams this year will surpass the Cowboys because they'll be in more big games. And so the Cowboys will be the fifth most watched NFL team by the end of this year, maybe sixth. And the only thing keeping the Cowboys TV numbers up is networks putting them on and the NFL putting them on more. It's really the NFL. Well, what's the network going to do? You jam them on Thanksgiving, you jam them in the opener. There's nothing NBC can do. So I. This is one of these things. The Cowboys were not a top 20 team last year offensively and they were 30th defensively. And I think the NFL is usually incredibly proactive. But the opener should have been maybe Detroit and Philadelphia, the two best rosters in the nfc. Get Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen somewhere on that. The idea that Dallas has earned that spot, it's Lakers on Christmas, who cares? At some point you've got to introduce people because I understand those one o' clock games. There's a lot of games on simultaneously in the NFL. You gotta start introducing people. And not only that, but marketing, pushing and promoting Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen and every opportunity. By the way, I'm not even mentioning Jaden Daniels, who I'm fascinated to watch much more than Dak. And you know what this felt like by the NFL. Remember when Apple inserted the U2 album on your ipod and you didn't want it and you couldn't get rid of it and there was a backlash. That's what I feel about the Cowboys. They're going to get beat by Philadelphia. They're going to get beat on Thanksgiving. I went and looked at their Thanksgiving Numbers of the last 12 games the Dallas Cowboys have played on Thanksgiving, five of them have been double digit losses. Okay? That does not scream, get this team on television. Same with the Lakers. There's just, there's just better products out there. Speaking of better products, Oklahoma City in a very competitive series. I mean, last night was a very competitive game. I never bought into this. Denver's just going to, you know, you have the best player in the world with Jokic. It's going to be a competitive series. The odds lead you to believe it was going to be, it was going to be a sweep or a gentleman's sweep, and it wasn't. OKC won last night, could have lost, game was tied late. So congrats to okc. Beautiful roster construction. And that's really what the league is about now. It's about roster construction. Remember a few years ago, five years ago, it was like, hey, man, you just got to get three great players put together new CBA doesn't allow that. All these aprons can't do that anymore. It's about roster construction. Boston, okc, what Houston and San Antonio are doing. It's not about getting Luka and LeBron and let's see if we can get Giannis. Doesn't allow you to do that anymore. So the story's not just okc. Congrats to them. They're going to be great for a long time. The story is Denver. They're becoming, if they don't make a move, Milwaukee. And you don't want to be Milwaukee. Look at the teams right now that think they're better than they are. Milwaukee, the last three years, the Clippers and the Lakers. Denver's not there yet because of Jokic. They're getting close. He is 285 pounds of duct tape. They don't have a general manager, interim coach. It's time. Outside of Aaron Gordon, who is hyper athletic, it's time to move off. Everybody but Jokic. Jokic, Aaron Gordon. I would move or consider moving everybody because the Murray contract, Michael Porter, you're locked into that stuff. And they have value and they have moments, especially Jamal Murray. But I mean, Jokic in this series is putting up games that haven't been duplicated since wilt. Like multiple 40, 15 and five games. That's wilt. And meanwhile, Oklahoma City has a one SGA has an ascending to Chet Holmgren, has a Swiss army knife in Jalen Williams, and then has like multiple 4 or 5 high end rotational players. If Jokic isn't feeling it, this team's done I mean, they have no offense. You saw him in one of the earlier games of this series when Jokic, he's just got guys bouncing off him. Didn't have much. They don't have much. So. And I think what happens in this league is if you go look at the NBA and this is what I love about sports, not just the games. I love the cultural changes. I love analytics. I would prefer Manhattan. I think people have gone too far into analytics and the NBA. Now, the New York Knicks are a great example, are going to beat the analytics team. Everybody loves Boston because manhytics hitting an occasional three, but really about physicality, leadership, resilient toughness. Manhytics to meet our analytics. 30, 40% and then 60% dudes in May or in the NFL dudes in December and January or in baseball in October. And I think what happens is we're seeing something in the NBA happen where it used to be kind of an easy solve if you were in beautiful Miami or Los Angeles, hey, let's just go get three guys. Wade, LeBron, Bosh. Let's go get Anthony, Davis and LeBron. You could just couple up guys. Phoenix tried this and then Phoenix found out. Oh, the culture. The sand is moving beneath our feet. All these multiple aprons, all the new cba. It is all about roster construction, flexibility, lots of picks. You want to be Houston, okc, Utah and San Antonio. Boston's been great, but they now, because of the Tatum injury, they now have to make big moves. And it's not. I'll just give you an example of this, is that since the 2021 Aaron Gordon acquisition, Denver hasn't made any moves. They haven't making any. They're losing guys. They keep losing guys. No big swings. They need a massive swing. Jokic, Gordon, move the furniture. Get new furniture. And I was thinking about this this morning, is that Denver didn't have a GM about four years ago. Three years ago, we were looking at Denver like we look at okc. We're like, could they win four titles? They lost. Tim Connolly was their gm since he's left, he went to Minnesota. What team is now surging surprisingly in the NBA West? His team, Minnesota and their roster construction. So it is now become NBA. Is becoming the NFL. Start learning who the GMs are. Guy built. Denver leaves go to Minnesota. Minnesota now is Denver. It was Jokic. They've got Ant. They've got their ascending star. And I just think right now, if Denver does not take a big swing, there are three teams in the west and I think they Think they're better than they are. The old warriors, the old Clippers and the old Lakers, they have no chance to win a title. Denver doesn't either. But they're not yet Milwaukee because Jokic is Wilt. He's literally unstoppable. But I think what's happening is we're seeing, we're seeing a sea change in the NBA with a new CBA. There are not going to be any dynasties. Even OKC, they're not going to be any dynastIES. The big three landing in your city don't matter. Advantage. Best front offices win. And that's what you see in the NFL. Look who's winning in the NFL. Little Market, Kansas City, Little Market, Green Bay, Little Market, Buffalo, Little Market. Did I say Baltimore, New York team stink. Front offices run the NFL. That never happened in my life. It was always about getting the star, the new aprons, the new cba. It's all about roster construction. Denver needs its next superstar GM or they're the Bucks by the middle of next year. That's what they are. And congratulations to okc. Their future is unbelievable. They just keep rolling guys out sick. Six or seven high end rotational players. Here's Jokic, by the way.

[Nikola Jokic]

After the loss, only second game was the kind of blowout and every other game was kind of interesting game. We were there. So I think we have a chance and we will play our best.

[Colin Cowherd]

Nicole.

[Nikola Jokic]

Hopefully, you know, it's a playoff, it's a serious. Every game is different. So I think even today we had chances. We were up 12 in one moment. So we just couldn't, couldn't, couldn't finish going to make shot.

[Colin Cowherd]

But one of the reasons they don't finish as well is because Oklahoma City has so much energy at the end of these games. Yes, Denver has the best player. Oklahoma City's got the roster and they just have fresher players at the end of games. This is not to say that Denver couldn't have taken at seven, but when you watch these games, you had a, you, you could see the energy of OKC Layton games. It was obvious and they deserve to win this thing. Man, all those NBA players that said Halliburton was the most overrated player in the league. J. Mac, this has been your team. So J. Mac was on Halliburton was it two or three years ago and then he had a hamstring pull and that slowed his pace and he's a guy that needs pace. So he was not the quite the same player for half the year. But boy, you talk about you Talk about a difference maker that kid is. I mean, they just took Cleveland out. You had to be surprised by how they took him out.

[NBA Analyst]

Well, you, nobody expected it to be done in five games. But that being said, I, you know, you could just see the Cavs were not the same team in the playoffs that they were in the regular season. And you've alluded to this that regular season in the NBA. Just, just forget it. Next year when we're handicapping the playoffs, just ignore 64 win teams because it just doesn't really matter.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, coming up next, by the way, pff, who I often disagree with, is aligned with us top to bottom on the off seasons. That will turn losers into winners and winners into losers in the NFL. Same three teams I'm paying attention to. They are as well.

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Rad and the iHeartRadio app.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Welcome back. Tonight's NFL schedule release. Lot of implications for the Chicago Bears. Can't wait for it. Some of the games are trickling out. J Mac will have more on that. So there was this NBA and I really like this poll. Every year they come out with the NBA player poll, anonymous poll. And I think they mostly it's GMs, it's players, all this stuff and they vote on a bunch of stuff and they usually get a lot of it right. One of the things they got wrong this year, most overrated player. NBA players are petty, very like provincial. They protect their space and their guys. They had Tyrese Halliburton of the Pacers who just mowed through Cleveland in five games. They had him as the most overrated player. I mean, you're a clown. I mean, listen, he is exactly what an NBA star should be. The Pacers had six guys in this series. Average double figures. And he's not bothered by it. He encourages it. I could name five NBA stars that wouldn't like that. Like mba, Bead Harden. They need the ball. Halliburton doesn't end up with that many assists, but he's always sharing the ball. He only had, I think six assists last night. It doesn't matter. He controls pace, he's mature, high iq, high eq. I said this two weeks ago. Indiana is fun to watch. I don't know how great they are. They're fun to watch. And the NBA Fanboys have been selling me on Harden and John Morant and LaMelo Ball. They're fun. Not building my franchise around those guys. I mean, Embiid and Harden melt in May. They just melt. This kid's been in the playoffs twice. He'll now be in the Eastern Conference finals for the second time because again, ascending, productive mature, doesn't get insecure if, you know, a player goes off and he doesn't like he wants to win the game. I always defended LeBron James on this, is that for years and years people would bang on LeBron because he wouldn't take the final shot. And my take is no, he would get the best basketball shot. And when you're being double teamed and if Shane Battier is open or Ray Allen's open, or J.R. smith is open on the wing with a wide open 19 footer pass the ball, it's not that difficult of a concept to grasp, but the NBA media sells flash and fluff. I'm looking for Jalen Brunson. I'm looking for Halliburton. I'm looking for maturity, selflessness. And I like. I don't know if there's a clutch gene, but there is something about Brunson having played in so many big tournament games at Villanova now in New York, he's just built for the moment. And Halliburton, you take out that hamstring injury when he had like a bad thing, it was the second half of the season when he came down. The guy's just better every time I watch him. He cares about the right stuff. He's great in the big moments. And this, it's, it's. I just don't understand. You keep selling me in this league, Lamelo ball, that's not a winning player. Halliburton's a winning player. Brunson is a winning player. And here's, here's the guy who won the series last night.

[Tyrese Halliburton]

Yeah, I mean, I know who I am. We know who we are. Not worried about outside noise, but it's a big win, a special win. We're not done yet. You know, we got another series here coming up and we got to be prepared. You know, our goal wasn't to get back to decent conference finals. Our goal is to win a championship. And nobody has to believe that as long as we do in the locker room and all the people cheering for us. So we just stay with it, man. Keep playing Pacer basketball and live with the results.

[Colin Cowherd]

For the record, some of this is just our culture. Halliburton's got 1.2 million followers on IG. LaMelo Ball has 10 and a half. He's got cool cars. I don't have a problem with that. You can have nice stuff. I don't mind players being flashy. When I was a kid, there was a player named World B Free. Go look him up. I loved him. He wasn't a winning player, right? I loved him. Dr. J was a winning player. And flashy. I don't mind flash. I love Michael Jordan. I loved Magic over Bird. I like Flash. But you got to be a winning player. Remember? Remember a white chocolate Jason Williams. Remember him? Oh, my God. The talk of the league. He's not a winning player. Fun, but you've been selling me a lot of this fluff you've been selling me. Guys. Derrick Rose was another guy. I like Derrick Rose. I'm not building my franchise around a 6:2 guy who has a small frame that can't really shoot jumpers. He could later in his career after multiple injuries when he was forced to. So I've said this before. When you're 6, 4 under, if you can't shoot, I'm not interested. That's. I'm just not. You have a role I'm not building around you. Kyrie can shoot, Steph can shoot. Jalen Brunson can shoot. If you're a smaller player, I'll take you. You got to be able to hit jumpers, otherwise you're going to have to drive to the basket. You're going to get hurt. Halliburton is not that flashy, but when you watch him play, you always feel like with Indiana, there's no wasted possessions. We talk about this all the time. You watch college basketball. The national champions Florida Gators will have seven straight wasted possessions and they have an NBA guard. When you watch Indiana, you always feel like they've got a plan, they execute it. They're not the most talented roster. They're top six or seven, maybe top five. But it's like this to me, is the players I want to build around. They're not consumed with points. They're consumed with execution and winning. And, you know, now he has one eighth the Instagram followers of guys with cooler stuff, which I'm not opposed to. If I had a lot of money when I was 23, well, I wouldn't have cool stuff because I have no style. But I'm okay with a little flash. But let's remember that all sports, that's like second, third, fourth punch, winning, efficiency, elevating others are the first three Be.

Sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Steve Covino]

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

[Rich Davis]

You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app.

[Steve Covino]

Why should you listen to Covino and Rich?

[Rich Davis]

We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world.

[Steve Covino]

We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.

[Rich Davis]

And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right?

[Steve Covino]

So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say.

[Rich Davis]

I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth.

[Steve Covino]

Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific.

[Rich Davis]

And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe. No, Rich, where we you get your podcasts and of course, on social media.

[Steve Covino]

That'S Covino and Rich.

[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

They graded all 32 teams on their offseason coaching hires, free agency and draft picks. And those are all substantial. We know football is the coaching sport. Most teams overspending free agency. But you know, you know, when the Rams got Stafford, it, it did make a difference when, when, you know, trades or free agency. When the Bucs got Brady sort of made a difference. And the draft I do think is worth a good draft is worth a win or two, especially if you shore up your pass rush your offensive line. So PFF and I, and I may struggle like everybody else in America, picking against the spread, okay? But I do take pride in the fact that over the last four years I've been pretty good at taking bad teams and predicting they'll be much better. The Vikings, the Rams you thought were in a rebuild, Denver and Washington last year. And I also, I think, have done a pretty good job saying this team has peaked. Dallas two years ago, San Francisco last year So I agree with PFF across the board. They like what Arizona has done, which I said this is a really good defensive coach and they went all in on defense. This draft and free agency. I think Arizona is going to be a tough out. They like what the Bears have done again. Quarterbacks young, shore up the interior O line and the coaching staff leans offensive. They love what New England's done. Frable staff money. There'll be a much better defense and they don't like the team that I have said for the last year. I love John Lynch, I know him. I love Kyle Shanahan. I think the Niners are a huge, magnificent brand. They gave the Niners a D. They lost Debo, Hufonga, Greenlaw and instead they went heavy on the defensive line. They still don't have a good offensive line and they're going to overpay for Brock Purdy. So I've said this. My knock on the Niners is I am seeing something I saw the last three to four or five years with Seattle and Pete Carroll and with Belichick. In his last five years Belichick got too much power and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And Belichick was drafting like coaches draft, not like a GM and Pete Carroll who I think is doing a great job of the Raiders. But when Paul Allen died, there was a void. He seized it. John Snyder almost left. I didn't like the Seahawks draft for several years and set it on draft day. The last two to three drafts that have been John Snyder drafts. I love the Seahawks roster. Coaches tend to draft to solve tomorrow. GM's draft with a vision down the road. That's why Green Bay to me drafts as well as anybody in the last 30 years in this league. They're drafting first round players. They're not going to play in three years. That's why they're always good. Belichick would grab a guard because he needed a guard, but he would reach around as the Rams pointed out one time, to get a guard. That's not who you draft. Yeah, maybe he can solve an issue. You kept reaching on players. So this is what I see with the Niners. When I watch the Niners last two drafts. I see a coach trying to solve issues for the season opener. I don't see a vision drafted too many wide receivers. You've got enough already. Stop with the wide receivers and the big contracts. So I think when I when I like a prime example this year, I think Seattle John Snyder is one of the best GMs. He drafted a quarterback after just signing a quarterback. Why would you do that? Because he wants Jalen Milroe in two years if Darnold hasn't reached the level he thinks he can, he wants Jalen Milroe, hyper, athletic to be ready to play. That's how you draft. That's how Jordan love as Aaron gets older and prickly. That's how you draft Aaron. As Brett Favre was nearing, you know, the twilight of his career. What you don't do is go grab a running back in the first round because you need a running back. But actually he Rashad Penny should probably be a late second round draft, not a late first round draft or go grab a guard in New England because it solves a problem for the season opener. But that's not what really the best for the team long term. That's why Belichick leaves and the roster's got no juice. It's one of the worst rosters he kept drafting for the game, not the future. And so I, I, Arizona, New England, Chicago, they're going to be really good teams next year. And I think San Francisco, you guys think I'm nuts on this. They peaked, love the roster, don't love the offensive line and they're going to overpay for Purdy. Coming up next, the Belichick thing is getting wilder. But a day, every day I come in, there's a Jordan Hudson Belichick story and I'm here for it. Live in Chicago, it's the Herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[NBA Analyst]

Saturday, it's baseball night in America as Matt Olson and the Braves take on Alex Bregman and the Red Sox or the Twins battle the Brewers. Check local listings for the game in your area. Saturday, 7 Eastern on Fox.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, transitions are hard for people and I'm not a real political talker, but Doge is a transition. It's messy, it's turbulent, it alienates people. But to argue our government is efficient and lean is laughable. I'm going to wait and see how it plays out. College football, similarly, is going through a massive transition. The nil, the transfer portal. It's wild, but it is also a great opportunity. The only way little guys can ever catch the big guys Uber to taxi is be a disruptor is to do it differently. And so North Carolina to catch Clemson has said, well, Clemson is digging their feet in to the old model. No nil, no transfers, Carolina's a basketball school. And Carolina's thinking, well, this is our moment. Big old dog with traditional advantages Digging their feet in the sand. We're going to go 100% pro model. We're going to do the opposite of Clemson, and that's why I'm supporting Carolina, Jordan Hudson, and Bill Belichick is. There's a story out, you know, yesterday, Bill's talking, he's promoting a book, and Bill said he didn't have anything to do with North Carolina football, which is, you know, kind of true, kind of not. But the truth is what Carolina did, and I respect it. They said, bill, take us to the pro model. Bill, take us to the pro model. And Bill's doing it. It is absolutely a pro model right now, and I respect that. And Oregon did this years ago when I covered Oregon. Oregon trailed USC and Washington, and maybe at the time, UCLA and Oregon said, we're going to have a thousand uniforms, a different one every Saturday, and we're going to hire a coach from New Hampshire, and we're going to have a play every 13 seconds with no huddles. And Oregon now is looking down at usc, Washington and ucla. The only way for the little guys to catch up to the big guys is to do things differently. Here's Belichick on the stories about Jordan Hudson getting in the way of North Carolina football. Really off to the side. It's a personal relationship, and she doesn't have anything to do with UNC football. I'm excited to be back in. In the coaches meetings and getting ready for, you know, June and then August when we get to training camp. What Jordan Hudson is, is a catalyst for change. And what Bill Belichick is, is that change. And when he hired Mike, Lamar Lombardi. Mike Lombardi is 100%. I know Mike. He's 100, an NFL guy. So I. I look at Carolina like I look at Colorado with Dion, like I look at Oregon with Chip Kelly. How does Colorado catch a byu? How do they catch? And I'm not saying Colorado is going to catch Alabama, but baby steps. Carolina is a basketball school. That's all they are. They're a basketball school. And the only way for them to catch a Clemson is this. Now, J. Mac, on a daily basis, you have gone back and forth on Belichick and Jordan Hudson and Carolina. But do you buy my argument is this is how the little guy catches a big guy? They look at Clemson, who's dug their feet in, and they said, we're going the opposite of Clemson.

[NBA Analyst]

Yeah. When I. When I had the website, the big league, you remember that I couldn't just cover sports the way the mainstream media Covers sports. I had to find certain angles that would get me to get attraction and people would notice the website. So just like UNC going a different route, I had to. That's the way the underdog always operates. I will say, though, Colin, this whole beauty pageant stuff, and it is getting a little weird in the timing of all of it coming out. Just as he's promoting a book, and now she's getting offered Dancing with the Stars. Colin, man, I know you like this story. I'm just troubled by it. I don't know, man.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, we talked about this yesterday when I heard the story about family concerns about Belichick. This is not a guy in the basement you have to feed soft foods to. He's making 10 million. He's got control of the program, and they brought him in. Let's be honest. They brought Bill Belichick in for a pro model. This is what, by the way, Alabama was Saban. Saban saw the change. He didn't want to wait around until it was an entirely pro model. I mean, one of the reasons Saban liked college over the NFL is he liked the college model where he had more control. And once the players can transfer and need to be paid, it's more of a pro model. And Saban's like, no, I dominated the old model. You know, Mike Krzyzewski, Jay Wright, Sovereign this Jay Wright and Mike Krzyzewski. Now, Mike was getting to the age you retire, but Jay Williams could have. Jay Wright could have coached for another five years. But Jay is like, I don't want to be an NBA coach. This is a little Dabo Sweeney. I want to be a college coach. I built the college power. The sport's changing is like, I'm good with it. I'll broadcast it, but I don't want to be in it. I respect that. But Carolina is just saying, we want to beat Clemson, to beat Clemson. We can't be Clemson.

[Michael Hawley]

Right?

[Colin Cowherd]

We gotta go. Oregon used to look up at usc. My entire life. They looked up at Washington and Washington and USC had these traditional helmets and these traditional uniforms. And Washington got all upset years ago when they decided to change the Huskies pants to white for a game. People freaked out. Oregon's like, we're gonna have a million uniforms. And I just. I look at this whole thing. And by the way, transition is messy. We're seeing it in government now. Some will win work, some won't. The cuts will be too deep, will be problems. But when you're trying to make a radical change like Carolina, this stuff there's turbulence. It's going to be a bumpy flight. So I kind of look at Jordan Hudson. I'm like, this is part of she's a catalyst, Bill's a catalyst, the NFL model's a catalyst, and Carolina's a basketball school. So I'm going to support all the mess.

[NBA Analyst]

That's a good point. You know, an idea for Ms. Hudson. Perhaps she could gift, I don't know, a private jet to North Carolina for, for the basketball coach and everyone else to use, and then she wins them over. You know, I hear that's a good move to make to kind of appease people who are coming after you. I don't know. I. It's an option for Jordan Hudson.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, listen, that felt a little snarky to me, but I do appreciate it here on a Wednesday. Come on.

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

And with that, a guy I respect a lot. Michael Hawley, NBC Sports, Boston, New York Times bestseller, is joining us live. There is a ton going on in Boston. How are you, Michael? It's great to see you again, but continued success for you.

[Michael Hawley]

Hey, good to see you too, Colin. I'm doing great. Just getting ready for the depression that is certainly coming tonight at Boston Garden. And I think it's officially a home game, Colin, for the Celtics, but there have been a lot of Knicks Fans at Game 1, Game 2, I'd say it was probably 75% Celtics fans, 25% Knicks. Who knows? Some of you Celtics season tickets ticket holders say, I'm gonna sell my tickets, let these New Yorkers come in and celebrate. So I think it's gonna be a 5050 atmosphere, a lot of orange and blue at the Garden tonight.

[Colin Cowherd]

So it's interesting. Obviously the Tatum injury is awful, but new owner, $500 million payroll. Horford, old Drew Holiday looked really old. Porzingis not the mystery illness. Could I not argue, and I know it forget the Tatum injury, but they were going to lose this series to me pre Tatum injuries. Four minutes before that injury, New York was making every basket and had total control. Could I not argue, regardless of the Tatum injury, that getting knocked out is a little bit of a wake up call, that there are still elements here that it needed tweaking. Anyway, what you don't want to become is Milwaukee holding on to something after a title or Denver. Now, Michael holding on to Denver's not a title team. Milwaukee got way old. There is A glimmer of hope losing to the Knicks. It's a little bit of a wake up call maybe.

[Michael Hawley]

Yeah, it's just. Kyla, you know what, you know how it is. New York, Boston, you're right. But it's. You don't want the wake up call to come. Now, New Yorkers involved, Boston, New York, that goes back years. But I would say this, I think that was coming anyway. So let's say they win the championship. Let's say they sweep New York and they take on Indiana and beat them. They win the championship again. Well, Drew Holiday is unlikely to come back because of these payroll issues. Porzingis was unlikely to come back. Either Horford is going to retire or go somewhere else. So they, they had some tweaking to do. Anyway, this wasn't, this wasn't necessary. You can't lose back to back games at home. Home at the start of the series the way they did. Like look at game one, they're up by 20 points in that game and the Knicks come back and win it. So you can say we'll never let that happen again. We won't miss 45 threes again. We won't shoot like that. And they came back in the next game, they were up by 20 and they did the same thing again. So I don't know if that's a talent issue or is that just. Your perspective is all wrong. Your philosophy is all wrong and you need to adjust that.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. I thought Joe Mozulla has had a bad series. I'm not some. I used to always joke with Bill Simmons. I said, you're too tough on coaches.

[Michael Hawley]

That's an understatement.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I mean, I said this. He has one, he has one club in his golf bag. It's like, guys, when the three shots aren't falling, ISO ball, top of the arc is not good enough. You watch Chris Finch pull levers. Spoelstra Kerr for years, Tom Thibodeau pull levers. I don't think Joe has pulled the right levers. I don't think they're gonna. J. Mac has said on my show, if Missoula gets embarrassed, he could be gone. As a former coach, I don't see Brad Stevens as a run him out of the building guy. Do you?

[Michael Hawley]

No, no. And the Celtics, not only is Brad Stevens not that guy, the Celtics aren't that organization. I'm trying to think about the last time they fired. I guess the last time they fired a coach. And it was an unusual Circumstance. It was Ime Odoka. But Doc Rivers was there for nine years. Brad Stevens was there for nine or 10 years. They had the DOKA situation. But they love. They love Missoula and what he's doing. This is not a philosophy that he invented. It's something that he endorses, but this is organizational. They love three over two. And we like the pressure it puts on defenses. We got guys who can shoot it. We're going to take advantage of it. So he has had bad series before. I don't think this series, even losing in five games, which is a real possibility, I don't think that will get him out the door.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I just defended Belichick. I said, listen, you could be Uber trying to overtake taxis. You could be Oregon. Years ago, when I was on the West Coast, Michael was looking up at Washington and USC and ucla, and they said, you know what? Those are traditional powers. We're going to wear a thousand uniforms. We're going to hire this guy from New Hampshire, Chip Kelly, have an offensive play every 13 seconds. We are a disruptor. And now Oregon looks down at all those schools, and they're not Penn State. The advantage of not having great tradition. You can go new North Carolina looks at Clemson. Now Clemson's dug their feet in. No nil, no portal. And Carolina's like, you know what we're going to do in Oregon? We're going to go to a pro model. We're going to hire Belichick, Mike Lombardi. We're going to go total pro model to a basketball school. And Jordan Hudson and Bill are actually simultaneously catalysts for the change. She's beautiful and cool and. And on social. Bill's an NFL guy, not a college guy. I am defending. They are being disruptive. And that is the only way, Michael, as you know, to catch the big dog, to catch taxis, is to be Uber and do it the opposite way. But that said 24 and 73 makes people uncomfortable. How is it playing for iconic Belichick in New England? What do people think in Boston?

[Michael Hawley]

They're freaked out. They're freaked out by the college, and I am, too. This is so. This is so out of character for him, not being in love or in, like, whatever he is with a beautiful woman. That's not out of character for Bill. What's out of character is the loss of control. He is a grade A control freak. He doesn't like anybody to speak for him. He handles media situations. You can argue sometimes he handles them poorly, but he handles them himself. He doesn't like to be out there, and anybody to kind of represent him in a way that makes him uncomfortable. But this has all changed. And I know we tried to walk it back a little bit and saying Jordan has nothing to do with North Carolina football. I don't believe that he gave her. He gave her power and I don't think he has taken that power away. She's not going to be as visible with North Carolina football, but I believe that she's going to have a lot to do with it. So it's just, it's not the Bill Belichick that we saw. It's not the honest Cincinnati Belichick. It's not the guy grumbling in front of the media and giving you one and two word answers. It's actually Belichick stepping back and letting someone else come forward. It's shocking.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I was telling a friend that was grumbling about politics in America and he was grumbling. He said, my party, Democrats are lost. And I said, listen, Democrats were lost pre Clinton, then they weren't. Republicans were lost pre Reagan, then they weren't. I said, if you find the right person, it's amazing what happens to a political party. And I feel this about the NFL. Patriots are lost. I think Drake May is the next Justin Herbert. I think Grebel's great and I think they will be the most improved team in the league. The last three years they have been lost. They've been tone deaf to offense. They can't draft. I think this is the beginning of a great 10 to 12 year run. Are people that I really do. I think again, I think if Michael, it's a quarterback coach league, Buffalo was a mess then they're not. I think, I think this is the beginning of the next great chapter. Are you that optimistic?

[Michael Hawley]

I am not that optimistic yet. So 10 to 12 years, that's saying a lot. And I. And you kind of toned it down because didn't I hear you say. I said I'm so glad we're talking today. I got to talk to Colin about this. Didn't you say they're going from worst to first? You got them in first place in 2025.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, I said, I said they're going to make the playoffs. They're going to be. They're going to be. Every year I pick a team that's going to double their win total. Last year it was Washington. This year it's New England. The year before, by the way, it was the Rams who were considered a rebuild team and made the playoffs. Year before that it was Minnesota. I may Stink picking winners against the spread. I'm really good on finding a cruddy team that gets good. And I think Gerard Mayo is a wonderful guy, but I think he was a classic coordinator, not a head coach. I think Vrabel's worth four and a half points alone a game.

[Michael Hawley]

Okay. I'll give you that. I love Mike Vrabel and I don't know if I've ever told you this story. I covered him in high school. We were about the same age, by the way. Okay. I just started at the Akron Beaches Journal and he was at a high school called Walsh Jesuit and he was a defensive end, tight end and the same wise ass then that he is right now. So I've known him for a long time. I root for him. I'm a big fan of his. But I think their talent got to the point because of Belichick. Their talent was so low. I mean, I think they're bottom five talent in the league and this infusion of free agents and draft picks, I think best case scenario probably gets them to the middle of the pack talent wise. They still have some work to do, so I think they'll be much improved. I got them at seven or eight wins max. I'd be really surprised if they find enough in year one under Brable to get into the playoffs because it's just too much damage done the last four or five years.

[Colin Cowherd]

Finally, I want to circle back to the Knicks and the Celtics is. I think one of the things I love about sports is the cultural changes. Three three point shots in the NBA. But it's really interesting. These playoffs have been fascinating, Michael, because the NBA has always swallowed the whistle in the postseason. This year it's a tug of war. It's a fistfight. And I'm going to make the argument circling back to this that if this is what the league is going to allow in May and June, that the Knicks today are better built than the Celtics going forward. Big physical, defensive coach get a bucket. Superstar guard that they don't. The Knicks don't need a massive swing. They need to get more consistent at center. Cat can't defend Mitchell Robinson can't hit a free throw. But the league. This analytic sounds great, Michael. Until the league says, yeah, we're going to officiate the playoffs totally differently than the regular season and that New York may be better built going forward.

[Michael Hawley]

I might buy that. If the league says we're going to be consistent with this, we'll go back. We won't go back to the 90s when the Knicks and Rockets were in the playoffs and all those scores were awful. All those scores were in the 70s and 80s. We're not going to go back there, but we're not going to allow just anybody. We're not going to allow finesse ball. We'll do something in the middle.

[J. Mac]

That's right.

[Michael Hawley]

By that I'll say right now, and I didn't think this last week, right now the Knicks are a better team.

[Colin Cowherd]

They are, yep.

[Michael Hawley]

But Colin, I got something for you. I'll tell you who's better than both of them and my pick to win the NBA championship. Oh, get ready. Indiana Pacers. The Indiana Pacers I think are more physical than the Knicks. I think they're better than the Knicks. And I know New York says, hey, we had, you know, we didn't have Jalen Brunson last year. He got hurt and broke his wrist. The Pacers are a team. We're talking about Celtics in New York. We need to be talking more about the Pacers. And I think with your theory, what the NBA allows, I think that suits the Pacers more than anybody else in basketball.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, Halliburton and Caitlin Clark, middle of the country's got their basketball point guards ready to go. Michael Hawley, who's been doing great work forever in New York Times best selling offer, multiple books on belichick, looks about 29 years old. You do not age, my friend. You are sharp and I swear to God Vrabel is starting to look like me. And you look as always, you do great work. You know, I respect the heck out of you. I appreciate you coming on.

[Michael Hawley]

I appreciate you, man, anytime. You know that, Colin.

[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

I can drive electric with the ultimate ease.

[J. Mac]

BMW lets performance do the talking and the scouting report is in. Experience the all electric BMW IX and witness dedication in every detail.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.