J. Mac (7:07)

I've ever seen, like close up, besides.

Colin Cowherd (7:10)

To my, like, besides myself, to myself.

J. Mac (7:12)

Bro, he's incredible, bro. The MVP race is tough, man.

Colin Cowherd (7:17)

I don't know. I don't know yet.

J. Mac (7:19)

60, that's crazy.

Colin Cowherd (7:22)

Yeah, it is. For everybody except the Joker. So I saw Jed York owns The San Francisco 49ers, a fairly low profile outside of the Bay Area. We know Robert Kraft or we know Jerry Jones. He's a little bit more under the radar, like a Stan Cronky. You know him in the town he's in. But you know, he's not out in the press a lot. But he said yesterday, yeah, Brock Purdy deal is going to get done here. Is Jed York on this contract that is looming.

J. Mac (7:54)

We want to make sure that Brock is a long term partner. We want to make sure that he's.

Colin Cowherd (7:58)

A part of our team for a long time.

J. Mac (7:59)

And it's a decision, I don't know exactly when we made it. But it was somewhere in the middle of the season. Knowing that you can start negotiating at the end of the third year and it's like, all right, he's our guy. And if he's our guy, you have to know that and make those decisions. And that's where we are right now.

Colin Cowherd (8:15)

And he's Kyle's guy. And that's the key. His Passer rating was 13th. His completion percentage was 17th. Wednesday was 18th. This is all about Kyle Shanahan. The franchise is Kyle's. Kyle and Sean McVeigh, they're the franchise. It doesn't always work that way in Philadelphia. Howie Roseman is the soul in the centerpiece. He's the leading voice in Kansas City or Green Bay. It's shared among many people. But if Kyle Shanahan views Brock Purdy as a top 10 quarterback, then he is. The deal will get done. I mean, Matt Stafford is great, one of the great arm talents of my life in the NFL. But it's the voice of Sean McVeigh that moved into Stafford off of golf and will move eventually off of Stafford in New England for years. What was the term in Belichick we trust? It wasn't in Brady, it was in Belichick. Bill was the singular decision making voice in big spots. Now you can get into trouble when there's Seattle. Russell Wilson and Pete Carroll both felt like they deserved a little more of the credit for being the voice that led to a divorce. I think in Green Bay, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers both felt a little disrespected, wanted a little more control. That led to a divorce. But in San Francisco, there are two things about Brock Purdy that Kyle Shanahan loves. Number one, cognitively, he can really read a defense quickly. Sam Darnold said he'd never seen a quarterback like that. He can just see the field, very quick processor. And the second thing is, and for a smaller quarterback, this is rare. He's got. He'll let her rip. He will absolutely let her rip. He was fourth in big time 20 plus yard passing plays and that was without Brandon Iuk. He'll let it go. He sees the play quickly, he processes Uber quickly and then he lets her rip. Garoppolo wouldn't do that. Trey Lance wouldn't do that. They'd hold the ball. They didn't have that arm confidence pretty does. So you may have 55 guys on the roster and 14 trainers and 27 scouts and the executive front office is 35 people. But most organizations have a singular voice that makes the biggest decisions. And in San Francisco, that's Kyle Shanahan. Now, he didn't have a ring. He's lost big leads in big games. And there are some skeptics. And I do think sometimes Kyle Shanahan is too tied to the play sheet. McVeigh is willing to blow it up second quarter, third quarter, and start over. Shanahan, not as much, but Purdy's gonna get the bag because Kyle Shanahan believes He's a top 10 quarterback. And this whole sport is belief. Do you believe in yourself? Do you believe in the quarterback and in San Francisco? Yes, and yes. That's your answer. And that's why he'll get the bag. J. Mac, you know, is funny. When I was. I was thinking of Jokic this morning in that. Okay. You know, Kareem was another guy. Where in the All Star Game used to be much different. They played defense and stuff. But. But most of the great players in league history are really fun. In the All Star Game. They really. They understand it. Even if they're not superstar players. Blake Griffin. They're superstar attractions. Joker is the one guy in this league that is fairly worthless in the All Star Game. And he's the best player in the league. And he doesn't even look like he fits in it. Like, he's like, guys, this isn't. This isn't really my game. And I think I. I respect him more for that. Like, he is. You know, they use the term unicorn. He's the unicorn. He doesn't play like the NBA. He rolls into you and past you. He doesn't fly up or over you. He doesn't work with the All Star festivities. But we are looking at, I think, not only the best player in the game.

J. Mac (12:23)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (12:24)

But a combination of the best two or three Bill Walton years. The best of Sabonis when he was overseas. And I think he's entered a territory of a top three or four player center in the history of the sport. Yeah, I'm with you. You know, you look at Shaq, who was utterly dominant. Akeem Olajuwon. I think Jokic is right there in the discussion with them. I know the Shaq fans won't want to hear that because nobody does a dominant force. He does far more better than Shaq. Shaq couldn't hit free throws. There was Shaq attack. There was Falon late. People wanted Shaq to shoot late. Yeah. Very limited. Right outside the lane. Right. Jokic is killing you from three. Defensively, I know he doesn't look like an adonis Shaq was just a hulking, incredible Hulk type figure. But Jokic right now, I mean, I don't know how there's a discussion with him and SGA for mvp. Like SGA is just on the team with the best record. They might win 70 games. Yeah, but to me Jokic has to be the mvp. Well, he's been the best basketball player in the world for four years running. I made a case that Luca for a while was there and Luca was with him. But Yokich is pulled away. It's funny whenever you do top 10 all time NBA lists, like @ this point he's got to be in it. He, I mean I'm just, I'm sorry but you can't put a Keem and Shaq near it and not Jokic. I'm sorry folks, is he 10 or top 10 or 15? I again, do you want another year? But he is, you know, I remember when Jordan was the best player in the NBA. I can remember talking to somebody about this. I said the gap between Jordan and 2 was greater than 2 to 8 or 2 to 10. I think that's where we are with Jokic. The gap between him and the second best player could be Tatum, Ant, sga, Giannis. I mean Draymond Green can hold Giannis to five field goals. Draymond Green has no ability to stop him. None. Our best defensive player, I mean Dennis Rodman was a little bit like that, you know, against certain players, like he could stop almost everybody. And then, you know, you get into certain matchups where there's not a lot you could do to stop MJ or Kobe in his prime. I, I, we just have to be honest about this. If you're going to put Duncan, if you're going to put Shaq and Akeem, all time great players near that top 10 or 12, it's silly not to put him in there. If you're having a draft of the top centers of all time and you give me the first pick, I would go Jokic over any of these. I would go Kareem second. Yeah, yeah, I would go Jokic because of his ability. Now again, old rules, new. A part of what makes him so powerful is the three point shot. But I think Jokic and Kareem, to me, I mean Kareem was a dominant defensive player, a dominant offensive player early career could run the floor. But there's when you can do six things. Well, that's like they say in baseball, a five tool player. Ohtani is Jokic the modern athlete. LeBron Ohtani Jokic, you can't defy him. You can't define them by position. Yeah, they do too many things. Well, Jokic is going to finish top two in MVP for the fifth straight year. Only one other guy in the modern era has done that. His name's Larry Bird. So Jokic is in historic territory right now, Colin. I, I don't want to see him. If I'm the Lakers in the second round, I do not much rather face. Okay, go look at Jokic against Anthony Davis. And Anthony Davis, it was, I thought the last two years was the best defensive player in the year. He may not win the award, but he was playing great defense. I mean, he will hold YIC to 28, 9 and 9. And you're like, what an effort. That guy shut him down. And they, and, and in those games, the Lakers never won them. I think at one point, Denver won 12 in a row. So it's the Joker's got three MVPs in the title. Akeem's got one MVP, Shaq, one MVP. Now Shaq's got four titles. But Shaq had, you know, Kobe Bryant. Come on, he's kind of. Jamal Murray's never been an all Star. That's the Okich's second best player. Like, come on, what are we doing? Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the iHeartRadio app. We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people. You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas. Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

J. Mac (16:57)

Thanks for having me, Jeremy.

Colin Cowherd (16:58)

Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

J. Mac (17:00)

Thanks for having me.

Colin Cowherd (17:01)

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

J. Mac (17:18)

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary?

Colin Cowherd (17:22)

And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what.

J. Mac (17:25)

We'Re doing in this situation.

Colin Cowherd (17:26)

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or Wherever you get your podcasts, it's Julie Stewart Banks. I'm doing a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts and the National Hockey League, and I'm paired up with one of my favorite players, the always quotable Nate Thompson.

J. Mac (17:42)

I wore nine NHL sweaters and I have story after story to share. And believe it or not, I have plenty to say, and not just about hockey.

Colin Cowherd (17:50)

Believe me, he does. Energy Line with Nate and JSB is the name of the podcast and it's going to be, well, it's going to be quite the ride. We're officially line mates, Nate. We're the energy line.

J. Mac (18:02)

We'll have plenty of folks join us. Current players, some of my former teammates, hall of Famers, and wait to see some of the connections that Julie has. She has quite the Rolodex.

Colin Cowherd (18:11)

Okay. We'll lean into Nate's playing experience and tap into our interests away from hockey and try to do what energy lines are supposed to do, provide an emotional boost. How do you feel about all that, Nate?

J. Mac (18:23)

I'm vibing, Julie. I'm ready to roll.

Colin Cowherd (18:25)

Listen to Energyline with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Are your ears bored?

J. Mac (18:34)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (18:35)

Are you looking for a new podcast that will make you laugh, learn and say que? Yeah. Then tune in to locatora radio season 10 today. Okay. I'm Diosa. I'm Mala, the host of Locatora Radio, a radiophonic novella, which is just a very extra way of saying a podcast. We're launching this season with a miniseries, totally nostalgic, a four part series about the Latinos who shaped pop culture in the early 2000s. It's Lala checking in with all things Y2K 2000s. My favorite memory, honestly, was us having our own media platforms like Mundos and MTV. Tres. You could turn on the TV, you see Thalia, you see JLo, Nina Sky, Evie Queen. All the girlies doing their things, all of the beauty reflected right back at us. It was everything. Tune in to locatora radio season 10. Now that's what I call a podcast. Listen to Locatora Radio Season 10 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You have to be very careful with tradition because sometimes tradition is just dead people's baggage. I'm Jamil Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Politics. On this week's episode, I talk with comedian and CNN host Roy Wood Jr. About the lack of African American star power in Major League Baseball. Baseball Needs an Anthony Edwards and I don't know who that could be. Mookie Betts is Steph Curry. He's exceptional and likable. Million dollar smile, that's important. But you also need chaos Negro. You need. So you think Anthony Edwards is a chaos agent? He told. He talked. You saw the clip of him talking to Obama. He was talking to Obama like that was his little brother. Oh, yeah. You what you did. You killed Bin Laden. That's what's up. Listen to Politics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So the warriors beat the Memphis Grizzlies last night. The warriors are on fire. And the Grizzlies are melting at the end of the season. So whoever faces the Grizzlies in the playoffs first round is getting a break. And last night The warriors big three, Steph Draymond and Jimmy Butler, crushed 92 points, 26 rebounds, 24 assists. And the warriors are now 18 and 2. When Steph and Jimmy Butler both playing and they're a 12. Oh, this is important. They're undefeated. When they go with their really small lineup where Kaminga's off the bench and it's Steph Pods Moody, Butler and Draymond, it's the no center Warriors. And they've also got a really good bench here. Buddy Heald can give you shooting, Jonathan Kaminga can give you some length and athleticism post. And Kayvon Looney give you size. Gil Santos, like that's one of the better NBA benches. It's not just a Jimmy Butler thing. They play nine guys, 10 guys now. They're fifth in the West. If they beat the Lakers tomorrow in la, they're one game out of fourth place. And this matters. We are looking at today a Warrior Laker first round playoff series. But trading for Butler gave this team two guys, Draymond and Jimmy Butler, that can get more good looks for Steph Curry. And he's hard to play with because he's sort of freestyling. And the offense under Steve Kerr has always sort of been the adults only pool at the resort. Kids, you're not welcome here. They tried. James Wiseman could not catch up. It's like playing with Tom Brady in New England. Like young receivers, it just didn't work. It just. Tom wasn't going to sit around and wait for you. So this, this warriors offense, it is a lot of spacing, it has a lot of motion and it's. How do you adapt and play with Steph Curry? Because nobody moves off ball like Steph So you've got to be intuitive, a quick thinker. You got a lot of, have a lot of basketball miles. I mean, KD worked instantly. Andre Iguodala worked instantly. Andrew Bogut works. Jimmy Butler works. These are smart, veteran players with a lot of basketball miles that you don't have to teach how to play basketball. It is a split second decision. Offense and squirrely guys and young guys have never fit here. Too much motion, too much space, and too much quick decision making. So Steph's not actually always the easiest player to play with. He's a great guy. You don't get ego. But he is moving so much with the ball and off the ball. You have got to pay attention. You can't sit in the corner and just watch. You are part of this motion. Jimmy Butler gets it. Draymond gets it. They have not lost a game when they go with their smaller starting lineup. Kaminga, buddy healed off the bench. Their size, Looney post off the bench. Here is Steve Kerr on last night. Steph Curry, 12 three pointers, 52 points. Overshadowed on a night by Jokic. But here's Steve kerr.

J. Mac (23:41)

The guy's 37 years old. It's incredible. 52 points with people draped all over.

Colin Cowherd (23:49)

Him all game long.

J. Mac (23:50)

I've been watching this for 11 years and actually longer. Before I became coach, I was enjoying watching him play, but to coach him, you get a real sense of just the magnitude of his, his talent, his. His character, his work ethic. Guy's amazing to watch and we're, we're.

Colin Cowherd (24:10)

Lucky to have him. Yeah, it's. It's really a spectacle. And when Mark Jackson was the coach, it was a good team. But there is something about Kerr's offense and the motion and the intuitive nature of it. Like it takes special player like Draymond. Green had a lot of college games under a great coach, Tom Izzo, so he was able to work with this very quickly. Draymond is thinking the game, not playing it. KD the same way. It's taken moody years to get there, but you can't just throw guys into Steph Curry and it always works. There have been guys that have not worked when they get away from what they really are. It's the fastest, most motion, most movement offense in the league, and it takes special guys to play with it. And Jimmy Butler is. Got a Draymond feel. He just gets. He gets stuff, good looks. He feels the game and thinks the game, not just plays it. And last night's another great example of that. Today it would be Lakers warriors first round. NBA is probably thinking, we don't want that. We don't want to get rid of one of these teams. I'm not sure if that's good. It'd be the highest rated first round playoff series in the last decade. I'm not sure. It's great for the league to have those guys going at it. It'd be something to watch, though. One more herd the herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. We live in a divided country. I am a lifelong Republican with all kinds of different people. You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas. Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

J. Mac (26:55)

Thanks for having me. Jeremy.

Colin Cowherd (26:56)

Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle. Thanks for having me. And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues. Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called one thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

J. Mac (27:15)

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here?

Colin Cowherd (27:21)

But that doesn't seem to be what.

J. Mac (27:22)

We'Re doing in this situation.

Colin Cowherd (27:23)

Listen to the middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Julie. It's Julie Stewart Banks. I'm doing a new podcast from iHeart podcast and the National Hockey League, and I'm paired up with one of my favorite players, the always quotable Nate Thompson.

J. Mac (27:39)

I wore nine NHL sweaters and I have story after story to share. And believe it or not, I have plenty to say, and not just about hockey.

Colin Cowherd (27:47)

Believe me, he does. Energy Line with Nate and JSB is the name of the podcast and it's gonna be, well, it's gonna be quite the ride. We're officially line mates, Nate. We're the energy line.

J. Mac (27:59)

We'll have plenty of folks join us. Current players, some of my former teammates, hall of Famers, and wait till you see some of the connections that Julie has. She has quite the Rolodex.

Colin Cowherd (28:08)

Okay. We'll lean into Nate's playing experience and tap into our interests away from hockey and try to do what energy lines are supposed to do, provide an emotional boost. How do you feel about all that, Nate?

J. Mac (28:20)

I'm vibing Julie. I'm ready to roll.

Colin Cowherd (28:23)

Listen to EnergyLine with Nate and JSB on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Are your ears bored?

J. Mac (28:32)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (28:32)

Are you looking for a new podcast that will make you laugh, learn and say gay? Yeah. Then tune in to locatora radio season 10 today. Okay. I'm Diosa. I'm Mala, the host of Locatora Radio, a radiophonic novella, which is just a very extra way of saying a podcast. We're launching this season with a miniseries, totally nostalgic, a four part series about the Latinos who shaped pop culture in the early 2000s. It's Lala checking in with all things Y2K 2000s. My favorite memory, honestly, was us having our own media platforms like Mundos and mtv.

J. Mac (29:13)

Tres.

Colin Cowherd (29:13)

You could turn on the tv, you see Talia, you see jlo, Nina, Sky, Sky, Evie Queen. All the girlies doing their things, all of the beauty reflected right back at us. It was everything. Tune in to locatora radio season 10. Now that's what I call a podcast. Listen to Locatora Radio Season 10 on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You have to be very careful with tradition because sometimes tradition is just dead people's baggage. I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics. On this week's episode, I talk with comedian and CNN host Roy Wood Jr. About the lack of African American star power in Major League Baseball. Baseball needs an Anthony Edwards, and I don't know who that could be. Mookie Betts is Steph Curry. He's exceptional and likable. Million dollar smile, that's important. But you also need chaos, Negro.

J. Mac (30:15)

You need.

Colin Cowherd (30:16)

So you think Anthony Edwards is a chaos agent. He told. He talked. You saw the clip of him talking to Obama. He was talking to Obama like that was his little brother. Oh, yeah. You what you did? You killed bin Laden. That's what's up. Listen to spoletics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Here we go. It's hour two. It is a Wednesday. We're live in Los Angeles. It's the herd. Todd McShay, an old friend, gonna be joining us in four or minutes. Also, Chris Broussard next hour. So the NFL draft is obviously. And we'll touch on that with McShay here in five minutes. It's coming up in three weeks. So Steph Curry, overshadowed by Jokic having 61. Steph Curry had 52 last night, hit a dozen three pointers. Warriors beat the fading Grizzlies. So I always think about this, We've talked about this, how certain players in the NBA are great. Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, James Harden. They're not influential. Shaq was great. He wasn't that influential. Magic Bird, LeBron. Steph Curry are influential. It's like Jeff Bezos is rich and influential. He ended malls. He changed retail in America. That's influential. Elon Musk, even before Doge. You know, politics aside, automotive industry, space industry, like that, that Larry Ellison is really rich. 192 billion. He owns half of Hawaii. He doesn't. He doesn't feel half as influential as, like, Steve Jobs did. Like, like, brought art into tech. Larry Ellison just a really smart guy. That and super rich. And. And that's kind of the difference is Steph Curry, you know, Tim Duncan and Wilt. Great, influential. Just great. Steph's just different. I mean, change basketball overseas. Au basketball. And we always knew he would be a guy that would age well. Smart athletes age well. They take care of their body. You know, guys that are still going to nightclubs or don't eat right or they're not intentional, you know, with their training. They, they age very quickly. I always said Cam Newton and Big Ben aged very quickly. Brady really intentional with his diet. Pilates training aged incredibly well. And Steph falls into that class. But it's just, it's. It's really remarkable what he's done. He is. And he's not athletically a force of nature. Shaq was. But the second best part of Steph is he just works well with everybody. Right. You don't get a lot of ego. And, and I've said international soccer in the NBA, you know, listen, it's about the star as much as the team. See, you gotta battle some of the ego stuff. I mean, LeBron's got an ego, but LeBron plays well with others. D. Wade has an ego. He played well with others. Carmelo, not so much. He kind of wanted to be the guy. He was threatened by Jeremy Lynn at one point. So I think Steph's aging well and Steve Kerr's talking about it.

J. Mac (33:25)

Can't believe he's still, still doing this at this age. But he's put the work in and he still got it. How much do you think that week.

Colin Cowherd (33:34)

Off he just had maybe boosted up a little bit? I think it helped.

J. Mac (33:37)

And I think two rounds of golf on this road trip helped. Yeah, I'm not, I'm only half joking, you know, he. But yeah, the week off was helpful for him. I think he looks recharged, rejuvenated.

Colin Cowherd (33:50)

How about this? Lakers warriors, if the playoffs started today, would meet. Now, that's not what you want. You want those to advance. You want the story to be expanded. You'd love the Lakers and Warriors to win and, and then meet in the second or the third round. But that's where it is today. I. I will tell you, I was thinking about this. Lakers warriors, the warriors have a really deep bench. And, and the bench gives you looney. And post give you size, buddy. Heel gives you shooting. Kaminga gives you athleticism. The warriors have one of the better benches, like the Boston Celtics in the NBA. In the playoffs, though, are you going to trust GI Santos? Are you. Are you going to play him a lot? I'm not sure if you are. Are you going to play post a lot? You know, the guy from the Netherlands. Are you going to play him a lot in the postseason? Maybe not. You'll play looney more so. But it's getting real interesting now. The Thunder in the Rockets, especially the Thunder, are pulled away from everybody man, it is really, really. How good? I mean, the Timberwolves are seven. That is a good team. That, that is, that is an all time great number seven seed. Do we have the Eastern Conference standings for us? Because think about this. Like, you could get Kawhi Leonard, you can get depth. Zubots, the center, like the Clippers are a good team. They're not a great team and you never know who's going to actually play, but it's a good team. Timberwolves as a seven seed compared to a seven seed in the East. Like the, and I've said this, I don't know exactly why this is, but the Western Conference, like, I understand why the SEC is better in college football. The footprint. There's all these unbelievable athletes, these totally addicted high school football programs. Like, I get why high school football is good in Dallas or Georgia or Florida. Like, I get it. The Western Conference has been so much deeper and better than the Eastern Conference. Now I do think the Celtics and the Cavs are the two best teams, but the Orlando Magic are three games under.500. They're a seven seed in the East. And the T Wolves that just beat the Nuggets with a great staff, they're a seven seed in the West. So the, the gap is significant. Well, a buddy, NFL draft college analyst, now he's at the ringer. Good for him. Todd McShay, haven't talked in a while. Joining us live in the herd. Todd, how are you? Great to have congrats on your success and congrats on going to the ringer. Man.

J. Mac (36:20)

Thanks, man. It's good to talk to you. It's been a minute. You were always supportive of me during our last adventure, if you will adventure, certainly at espn. And it's great to catch up with you.

Colin Cowherd (36:33)

So it's all I keep hearing from my people in the league is this is not a great draft. And I'm like, okay, there's got to be a couple areas that you like it. So if I said to you give me two position groups, Todd, that you'll go to the well on and you'll say, okay, it's a good year for.

J. Mac (36:50)

What in this draft, running backs and defensive line. Colin, I mean, I was looking at it the other day. I went back 30 years and then I kind of got. I kind of got bored. In the last 30 years, I think it was 26 defensive linemen. That was the highest number we've seen talking interior defensive lineman and edge. And this year I've got 35 players along the interior and at Edge that could get drafted in the first three rounds. So even if I'm off by like eight, if my evaluation is too high on eight of these guys, it still will be a record number of interior defensive linemen and edge defenders that come off the board. And then at running back, this is, this is the best group I've ever evaluated. I've been doing it 25 years. And it starts with Ashton Jinty, right? Who's going to be a worst case. He goes 10 to Chicago. We could see him go six to the Raiders. I mean, he, he's. If you, when I'm talking to guys in the league, it's like, yeah, he's a running back, but I've got a grade on him that's like just a tick below the top two guys that everyone's talking about in Abdul Carter, the edge rusher from Penn State, and Travis Hunter, the generational talent both sides of the ball from Colorado. And then beyond just Genti, you've got Omarion Hampton, who's like 220 plus, light on his feet, powerful, best missed tackles. Force of any running back after the catch is a receiver. So you got that combination.

Colin Cowherd (38:17)

Yeah.

J. Mac (38:17)

Oh, he's unbelievable. I've got 18 guys. Colin at the running back position the first four rounds with grades, the three year average is 10. We're talking about almost twice as much talent in the first four. Yeah, it's crazy. And you go down the list of these guys and it's beyond Jinty and Hampton, it's Travion Henderson and Judd and Kunchon Judkins from Ohio State, who are just, first of all, nasty blockers, both explosive, Judkins more powerful, Henderson faster and more dangerous in the, in the passing game. Then you've got Caleb Johnson from, from Iowa, who is great in that zone, blocking scheme. Cam Scatterbow who is boo. Who is like, he was awesome when you watched him on TV and then putting on the tape. I actually even liked him more. And I know he's going to. He runs in the four sixes and all of that, but he's a phenomenal back. And then even beyond that, you've got R.J. harvey from UC, UCF, D.J. giddens from Kansas State, lesser known guys who are going to come off the board in the first few rounds. I just, I love this class of running backs. And you've seen it Colin, right? Like with COVID 2 defenses and everyone in the league spreading things out, everything's cyclical, right? You spread these, these defenses out. The passing game heavy in the last decade. Of the NFL. Now teams are trying to figure out how do we counter that. And it's not. We've seen a resurgence at running back and yes, this talent is outstanding and a lot of these guys would go regardless irregardless of the year. But with the NFL and defenses playing that cover to making you kind of drive the ball down the field trying to avoid the big plays from the Patrick Mahomes and the Josh Allens and all these big arm quarterbacks, you've got to have a running back now to counter it, who's explosive. And that's why you saw, that's why you saw Detroit and everyone was yelling at Brad Holmes, the GM for the Lions a couple years. Jir Gibbs can't draft a running back that high. You already got a running back. Well, look at what that did to that offense. And when the starter get goes out a few weeks and when you've got both of them healthy, it just elevated things. I think that's what we're seeing in the NFL right now.

Colin Cowherd (40:21)

Okay, so Cam Ward, the playmaker, got a little Caleb Williams. I see it, I get it. Better arm than Shador. If I said to you, and you're hearing stories about this Shador Sanders, Jackson Darth, are there people you believe that grade Jackson Dart ahead of Shador Sanders?

J. Mac (40:40)

I know of one team that does. I can tell you that there's, there's 31 other teams and that team may not draft either of these, these quarterbacks, but I can tell you that at least one team in the league has a slightly higher grade on Jackson Dart than they do on, on Shador Sanders. And so to me, I have identical grades on them. I watch Jackson Dart and listen, I like Shador Sanders a lot. Doesn't have a huge arm, does not have mobility. I think that's the biggest mistake in the evaluation, at least early in the process. Everyone, well, he's, he's Coach Prime's son. He's fast. He's, he's not fast at all. I bet you he'd run like a, I don't know, 4, 8 in the 40 if he ever ran one. And he's never going to. But what I do love about him is I think he's the fastest processor of all these quarterbacks in the passing game. Now his instincts in terms of the pocket kind of extending and drifting and always looking for the home run and not taking the short change, those sorts of things he'll manage through. And if people don't like him, what they say is he has some of the bad habits that Caleb Williams had that cause and problems as a rookie. But he doesn't have the arm or any is a fraction of the athleticism. But the people who love him love the fact that he's the best pure passer in terms of touch, timing, layering the football and he's the fastest processor in this class. Now you go to Jackson Dart, who bigger arm, bigger kid, more mobile. I think accuracy is good, but it's not quite at the level of Shador. Yeah, but the thing that made me fall in love with him and listen, the detractors will say, well Lane Kiffin, that offense, they run that same sale route concept and they'll run it three, four times a game and they do things over and over again, predetermined reads. And yeah, that's true. It doesn't mean he can't do it. It's a matter of getting with him and figuring out how he learns. Can he, can he go through NFL read and all those things. But when I fell in love with Jackson Dart, there's when you have the tape access, we have like the PFF ultimate combined with like the catapult, this whole system, you can go in and do cut ups, go in and watch his cut ups on his intermediate throws 10 to 25 yards and watch his accuracy compared to a lot of other guys in this class. And then the thing that really jumped out to me, I watched over 1200 snaps in like a five day span of these quarterbacks versus pressure. His was so significantly better. And I saw a lot of like, I know he's not the size and he doesn't have the arm, but a lot of the same things that makes Josh Allen special in terms of avoiding quickly eluding but calm this presence about him as he's rolling out and seeing the field. He was so much better in those versus pressure moments to throw that 161 clip reel that I went through than all of these other quarterbacks were that that to me spoke volumes because that in the NFL you've got to, you have got to make intermediate throw and you've got to be able to work under pressure. And he did both of those at Ole Miss at a very high level.

Colin Cowherd (43:41)

Okay, Travis Hunter, first of all, I think he's going to be good at whatever he does. But if I was a coach, I'd be like, I'd rather have 12 targets than chasing the other team's best receiver around. I can get a corner in the fifth round. There is no more lockdown corner as good as Patrick's or tan is there's so much motion, so many sets, the great offensive coaches making it virtually impossible to get your hands on anybody. If I'm New England and I can get 12 targets for this kid, fly sweeps, bubble screens, I don't know. To me, I think he's an offensive player in the NFL if we want to put him in a nickel because we love his athletic ability. But don't you see him as an offensive guy in an offensive league?

J. Mac (44:24)

You know what's funny? Like there's, there's two trains of thoughts thought here. The first is cornerback. It's hard to play wide receiver full time and then kind of moonlight or minor at the cornerback position. Right, right. And so, so coaches get involved in this process and, and they're like, yeah, I understand it, but we can put in installs every week and have like a 20 play package for, for, for Travis on the offensive side. And so from a coaching standpoint, that makes more sense. Let's keep him in the cornerback room. He can do some things and work with wide receivers and work with the quarterback on the field and, and we can meet separately with those. But let's make him a corner and then do the install and some packages for him on offense.

Colin Cowherd (45:06)

Okay.

J. Mac (45:07)

But the talent and what you're saying, those two factors, I think he's actually a better wide receiver. I think he's at his best with the ball in his hand. And the thing that goes like, we all get so caught up in what we're showing the highlights, right? How quick he is, how sudden he is. He's a dynamic athlete. I'm telling you, Colin, he's up there in like the top five of wide receivers in terms of ball skills in like the past decade that I've evaluated. It goes so and so. While that's great at corner, how many interceptions is he really going to have? So the average guy would get three, maybe he gets five in a year. But if I can have that weapon, who's that reliable and refine him a little bit as a route runner and I already think he's a little bit more refined as a receiver than a corner. I tend to agree. If he falls to New England at four, you're telling me that they're looking at that and say, well, sorry, Drake May, we're gonna play him at corner, but we'll give you like 20 snaps. No chance, man. It will come down to the team that drafts him and what they need from him and then the kind of the load management, NBA stuff with him and trying to keep him healthy. But ultimately I want to get the ball in this guy's hands and I think, you know, we all know that offense is the way to do that.

Colin Cowherd (46:22)

Todd McShay now at the ringer. One last question on this, because when I was a kid, I mean I can remember the top two or three tight ends. Dave Casper for the Raiders. There were so few of them. Kellen Winslow. Well, I always had this theory is that as people got bigger, as athletes got bigger and we've just got more 6 foot 5, 240 pound men playing sports and they've got good hands because they played on their high school basketball team. And so, you know, mo humans are getting a little bigger. But what's interesting about the tight end is we just have so many great 6 5, 235 pound high school athletes all over the country and it's like, well, let's put them at tight end. Some can block, some can't. But I look at the tight end position there and I never thought tight end was a first round position. Brock Bowers, total outlier. Best college tight end I've ever seen. Kyle Pitt's not as good as I thought, but I, but I do look at Tyler Warren at Penn State and I was, I watched that USC game and I'm sitting there and I'm like, dude, if I had to do, I could, could he throw the ball? Could I put him in the backfield? What do you make of him as a prospect? Because I keep hearing it's a weak draft and I'm like, if you told me one guy went in this draft and we look five years later and went, we just didn't get how good this guy was. He is different. What do you make of him historically as comp and the Penn State tight end?

J. Mac (47:53)

He is different. I mean he's, he's six, five and two thirds and he's 256 pounds. And when you see him like break tackles and rumbling after the catch, you're like, yeah, he's every bit of that. Then you see him as a, as a route runner, as an athlete. I mean he snapped the ball in that game and went and caught a touchdown pass in usc. So like he could just kind of, he's kind of that you can. And people are like, well he's not a great blocker. Like, yeah, no kidding, like he was doing everything else and yeah, he's got to improve in that area. I think he's so good after the catch. I think he knows how to get Open. Even though he, he doesn't separate like Colson Loveland. If you want a wide receiver at tight end, that's your guy. Yeah, he doesn't block like, he's terrible at blocking. Let's just call it what it is. Colston Loveland's a wide and he's, he's a little bit more like Brock Bowers. Just tick behind him in terms of talent. Warren is different, man. Like you're watching the highlights here. He reminds me more of Gronk. If Loveland is, is Bowers or Kelsey in that mode, this guy's Gronk in that. He's, he's going to become a serviceable blocker. But what he does so well is he's going to find a way to get open versus zone boxing guys out, catch the ball. And then after the catch, he creates so many yards with his combination of his athleticism and then the fact that, that he's just barreling through guys, so. And then also there's this guy named Elijah Arroyo who's six five, 251 pounds from Miami.

Colin Cowherd (49:24)

Yeah.

J. Mac (49:24)

Who looks like he's about 230 the way he carries his weight. He had one year of great production at Miami this past year. Had some injuries, but if he stays healthy, he's got a chance to be a star. And then Jason Taylor's son, Mason Taylor wasn't even utilized all that well at lsu. A lot of underneath didn't like really stretch the seam and do those sorts of things. He's a, he's the same guy, six, four and a half, 251 pounds as arroyo and. And has an unbelievable skill set across the board. I. Those four tight ends have a chance to make a significant mark early in their careers and throughout their careers. And I think all four of them are going to be off the top. Off the board, probably in the top 40 to 45 picks.

Colin Cowherd (50:05)

Todd, you look great, you sound great. Happy for you. You landed in a great spot. Say hi to Bill and the fellas. What a crush, my man. We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up everyone? Julie swearbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.

J. Mac (50:47)

We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go.

Colin Cowherd (50:49)

The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.

J. Mac (50:52)

Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?

Colin Cowherd (50:58)

Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.

J. Mac (51:01)

Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.

Colin Cowherd (51:06)

Listen to EnergyLine with Nate and JSB on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working can help with that. Here's advice from Google CMO Lorraine Twohill on how to treat AI like a partner. I see AI as an incredible co pilot. You may use different tools or toys to get the work done, but AI is just the latest flavor of that. You're still the judge of what good looks like. I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast this Is Working Leaders Share Strategies for Success. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You have to be very careful with tradition, because sometimes tradition is just dead people's baggage. I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics. On this week's episode, I talked with comedian Roy Wood Jr. About the lack of African American star power in Major League Baseball. Baseball. Baseball needs an Anthony Edwards, and I don't know who that could be. Mookie Betts is Steph Curry. He's exceptional and likable. Million Dollar Smile. But you also need Chaos Negro. Listen to spoletics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.