Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Best of The Herd Release Date: May 9, 2025

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Introduction The Best of The Herd episode features Colin Cowherd engaging in an in-depth discussion with Draymond Green, focusing on Green's role in the NBA, comparisons to legendary players, and the dynamics of aggression and leadership within basketball teams. The conversation delves into the complexities of being a "villain" player, team strategies, and the broader implications of player behavior on and off the court.

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1. Draymond Green's Role and Comparisons to NBA Legends

Colin Cowherd initiates the discussion by positioning Draymond Green alongside iconic NBA figures known for their confrontational play styles.

• Comparison to Legends: Cowherd identifies Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman, and Draymond Green as the three best "villains" in NBA history, highlighting their offensive prowess paired with their tough, confrontational personas.

  “The three best of all time were Bill Laimbeer, Dennis Rodman and Draymond Green. It was a chosen path.” [05:04]

• Effectiveness on the Court: Emphasizing their dual impact, Cowherd notes that while Laimbeer and Green excel offensively, they also bring an edge that disrupts opponents.

  “They are great at what they do. They provide an edge and toughness. They're annoying. They get into people's heads.” [05:19]

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2. Choosing the Villain Path: Benefits and Consequences

The conversation explores the deliberate choice of adopting a villainous role and its implications for fame, wealth, and personal challenges.

• Deliberate Path: Both hosts agree that embracing a confrontational role leads to increased visibility and financial gain but also attracts significant criticism and backlash.

  “They leaned into it. They were comfortable being it. Laimbeer and Draymond are better offensively than Rodman.” [38:48]

• Personal Sacrifices: Draymond acknowledges the personal toll, referencing experiences of being booed and facing hostility from fans in various arenas.

  “A lot of arenas, man. Indiana, Toronto... being a Celtic is. You're a villain.” [40:07]

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3. Draymond Green's Impact on Team Dynamics

Discussions focus on how Green's aggressive playing style influences team performance and leadership structures.

• Leadership and Coaching: Cowherd praises Green's coachability and professionalism, citing the influence of coaches like Tom Izzo and Steve Kerr in shaping his behavior.

  “He's as coachable as any employee I have... he gets along with people. He's totally professional.” [05:19]

• Team Strategy: Green's role as an enforcer is seen as crucial for team resilience, especially in high-stakes playoff scenarios where physicality can be a game-changer.

  “We gotta junk the game up. We gotta junk the game up.” [34:36]

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4. Bill Belichick's Situation at Carolina and Rebranding Efforts

A significant portion of the episode examines Bill Belichick's tenure at the University of North Carolina, his relationship with his girlfriend Jordan Hudson, and efforts to rebrand his image.

• Controversy and Defense: Cowherd discusses reports about Carolina initially banning Hudson, followed by their clarification, portraying Hudson as an integral part of Belichick's personal brand management.

  “Belichick empowered her. She took the baton. She's aggressive.” [14:35]

• Rebranding Challenges: Belichick's attempts to modernize his image through media appearances and social media engagement are critiqued as seemingly inauthentic.

  “He's not a media guy. He's a pro football coach.” [14:59]

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5. NBA Player Hierarchies: Ones vs. Twos

The debate shifts to categorizing NBA players based on their productivity and ability to lead a team to championships.

• Defining Criteria: Cowherd outlines four essential traits for a "number one" player: high productivity, emotional and physical reliability, durability, and a competitive "dog" mentality.

  “There are four things you need to have to be an absolute one.” [36:10]

• Evaluating Current Players: The discussion includes assessments of players like Jayson Tatum, Giannis Antetokounmpo, LeBron James, and others, debating whether they meet the criteria to be considered top-tier leaders.

  “Jason is too collaborative... Dude, grab the ball and take it to the basket.” [33:26]

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6. Audience and Fan Reactions to Draymond Green

Green shares personal experiences of being booed and criticized, highlighting the challenges of maintaining composure under public scrutiny.

• Fan Hostility: Recounts instances of receiving negative reactions from fans, particularly in non-boston arenas, and how these experiences shape his approach to the game.

  “You got booed at the All Star Game... I think being a Celtic is. You're a villain.” [40:07]

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7. Aggression in Playoffs and Team Strategies

The final segment discusses the heightened physicality in the NBA playoffs and its strategic advantages, particularly for teams like the New York Knicks.

• Physical Play as Strategy: Green advocates for the use of aggressive tactics to counter more talented but less physically rugged teams, likening it to a boxing match where unexpected physicality can offset talent disparities.

  “It’s like a boxing match... you junk it up.” [35:09]

• Impact on Series Outcomes: The hosts analyze the potential for close series outcomes due to increased physicality, suggesting that less polished teams can leverage aggression to their advantage.

  “Everyone can pass the Knicks art. And when you let OG grab and lean... it leans into New York's favor.” [34:36]

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Notable Quotes

• Draymond Green on Public Perception:

  “The angry black man. I'm not an angry black man. I'm a very successful, educated black man with a great family.”
  (05:04)

• Colin Cowherd on Villainous Players:

  “Aggression meets aggression, and the fans are really, really rude.”
  (38:48)

• Draymond Green on Team Strategy:

  “We gotta junk the game up. We gotta junk the game up.”
  (34:36)

• Colin Cowherd on Player Hierarchies:

  “There are four things you need to have to be an absolute one.”
  (36:10)

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Conclusion The Best of The Herd episode offers a nuanced exploration of Draymond Green's role in the NBA, juxtaposing his aggressive playstyle with historical legends to underscore the complexities of leadership and persona in professional sports. Through candid dialogue, Colin Cowherd and Draymond Green shed light on the interplay between strategy, personal conduct, and team dynamics, providing listeners with insightful perspectives on the evolving landscape of basketball.

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For those interested in diving deeper into these discussions, tuning into The Herd with Colin Cowherd provides a comprehensive look into the top sports stories and the personalities that shape them.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Draymond Green]

The angry black man. I'm not an angry black man. I'm a very successful, educated black man with a great family. And I'm great at basketball. I'm great at what I do to the agenda. To try to keep making me look like an angry black man is crazy. I'm sick of it. It's ridiculous.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now, I have said this before. I have employed him for several years. He's as coachable as any employee I have, because Tom Izzo and Steve Kerr are tough coaches. So he likes to be coached. He gets along with people. He's totally professional. But he has chosen the path, like Bill Laimbeer did, to be a confrontational player with that path in life, because fame comes riches and it gets messy. I went to a Bill Lambert game and heard people attack him in the layup line before the game. That is the path Laimbeer chose. He didn't have to do that. And Draymond Green last night, with Steph out, you knew the crowd was going to be all over him. So that's the path he has taken. But I would say with Laimbeer, and I'm old enough to remember Bill Laimbeer with those Pistons, that Lamb, Beer and Draymond are effective. They're complex. They embrace it. It is a very volatile path to take. You'll get rich, you'll get famous, and you'll get a ton of crap. If Steph Curry or Kobe Bryant beats you, it feels artful. If Rodman Lambert or Draymond beat you, it feels like they're cheating. They're skirting the rules. They're pushing the envelope. And they are. And I have defended it. Bulls fans and Laker fans, they thought Laimbeer was inappropriate. It's one thing to get beat by the artist, by the scalpel. It's another thing to be. To be beaten over the head. And sometimes with Lambert and Rodman and Draymond, it feels that way. So aggression meets aggression, and the fans are really, really. I sat in the Lambert game. I've been to a Draymond game on the road. It is different. But I will say this about the value of what Draymond provides. So the three most disruptive players, in terms of, like, style in my life are Rodman, Lambert and Draymond. Now, Lambert and Draymond are better offensive players, but those three. Think about this for a second. Who were they coached by? In my opinion, the four best coaches in league history, at least in my life history. Popovich, Chuck Daly, Phil Jackson and Steve Kerr. So the smartest coaches in league history had the three villains because they understand the value. The rebounding, the screen setting, the. The toughness. NBA playoffs have always been loosely officiated. They allow more physicality. Phil Jackson absolutely knew that they had different rules for Rodman. He could go to Vegas during the finals. And the same with Lambir or Draymond Green. They have incredible value. But being the villain is a choice, and it's messy. Here Is Draymond angry after? And here's Steve Kerr as well.

[Draymond Green]

Look like the angry black man. I'm not an angry black man. I'm a very successful, educated black man with a great family. And I'm great at basketball. I'm great at what I do. To the agenda. To try to keep making me look like an angry black man is crazy. I'm sick of it. It's ridiculous.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's going to have to stay composed.

[Draymond Green]

Obviously, we need him, and I'm confident.

[Colin Cowherd]

That he will because he knows, you know, he knows the circumstances. That's part of.

[Draymond Green]

It's part of Draymond, you know, his same thing that makes him such a.

[Colin Cowherd]

Competitor and a winner puts him over the top sometimes. And, you know, we. We know that, and it's our job to try to help him stay. Stay poised, stay composed. But the competition so meaning meaningful to him that, you know, occasionally he goes over the line. And last night was viewed as going over the line. All right, speaking of noisy, couple of stories here, There was a story by Pablo Torrey, talented podcaster, that said Carolina had banned Bill Belichick's girlfriend, Jordan Hudson, from the football facility. Carolina came out this morning and said no, she's. She's not an employee of our university. She is welcome in the football facilities. She'll continue to manage Coach Belichick's personal brand outside. So I've said this. Jordan Hudson is a very young and ambitious and willful young lady. And colleges are full of hierarchies. So this going to be combative. Okay. This was probably bound to get a little turbulent. Belichick empowered her. She took the baton. She's aggressive. If you look at her life history, this is a moment in time for her. Sorry. Find. Be empowered and find success. I get it. But from day one, Belichick to me, on a college campus never made sense. He didn't draft well because he didn't pay a lot of attention to. Despite his dad's history, he didn't pay a lot of attention to college football. You could tell from his drafts he had no feel for it. Belichick then hires Mike Lombardi, who I know at North Carolina. These are NFL guys. First, second and third and fourth and fifth and sixth. They don't care about being part of a university's athletic department. They can fake it. They can go to a basketball game. What I would argue in all of this is Belichick is rebranding himself. Young girlfriend, college campus. Young, young recruits. He's staying. He's staying current. I'M surprised he didn't go to Coachella. Hey, I thought there'd be coaches here. What's going on? I mean, the truth is, the NFL viewed Bill Belichick as old, combative and grumpy. And one team, Atlanta, gave him the time of day. And yet in the last 12 months, what has he done? He went on ESPN and laughed and smiled a lot. He found a young girlfriend. He's on a young college campus. He's doing TikTok and Snap Gram and Insta Chat and all that stuff he used to make fun of. I believe Bill is rebranding himself. Even if you look at his contract at Carolina, the out is after a year. So I'm not blaming Bill, whose DNA is pro football, wanting to use Carolina to get back to the NFL. I think that's his real dream. Nor do I blame Jordan Hudson for being ambitious, willful, driven, and butting heads if it happened with anybody on a college campus. College campuses is all about tenured professor. I mean, here at USC and ucla, it's politics, it's tenure. It's. You know, everybody's trying to get their space and their lane and protect it and get that nice pension. I think Belichick's rebranding, but him on a college campus. I've said this from the very beginning. It just doesn't feel natural. It doesn't feel terribly authentic. You can go, you know, him laughing on espn. He gave it the college try. But Bill's not a media guy. Bill doesn't have any interest in the media guy. You've watched his book, Media Tour. It's not who he is. He's a pro football coach. The best defensive coach of all time. The most profound and prodigious NFL coaching resume of all time. The game changed. It's more collaborative. He tends to be more bottom line and a little bit corrosive and tough and combative and collaborative and combative are two different things. And, hey, Jordan, can you give me little help in the branding stuff? That's what it feels like to me. I'm not saying they don't have a great time together, but I've said I think they're both kind of using each other to empower their careers going forward. I'm here for it. I'm okay with it, but I've never bought into Belichick. And a college campus fits. It's like Bobby Knight and the pros. That was never gonna work. Belichick, 12 years at Carolina. Mack Brown feels like a college coach. He's smiling, not Great on the details. Wonderful guy. Southern smooth, Texas charm. Mack Brown's a college coach. Nick Saban could do both. He just didn't stay around the NFL long enough to be a great head coach. But this has always felt a little unnatural to me, and that's okay. So I. You had the Pablo Torre report. Carolina comes back and says, that's not true. Julian Edelman was on our show earlier this week. On all the noise around Belichick, Carolina, and the current situation, the number one thing we used to talk about all the time in New England was distractions. Let's not make distractions. The game's already.

[Draymond Green]

As hard as it is.

[Colin Cowherd]

We're talking about this. Three weeks later, it's on abc. It's on this, it's on that. I mean, it's getting to a point where we gotta. We got to start worrying about, you know, the acc. We got to start worrying about Dabo Sweeney. Yeah, he sees it. Julian sees it. He is keeping it real on this. I don't feel Mike Lombardi, Bill Belichick, Carolina. That does. That doesn't. That doesn't sound like a Tom Hanks, Rita Wilson marriage. That doesn't feel like 20, 30 years to me. Even if Billy Belichick was 55, he's a pro guy. You can usually see a guy, that guy's a college guy. That guy is a pro guy. Dabo Sweeney's a college guy. Belichick's a pro guy. Annie Reid's a pro guy. Sean Payton's a pro guy. J. Mac, Draymond Green gets everybody around. You almost knew last night without Steph Curry. We talked about this on the show yesterday. Golden State had one way to win. Get ugly, get physical. And it went sideways. I don't know. Other than Jonathan Kaminga having a pretty solid game, I saw nothing from Golden State that leads me to believe they're winning any more games in the series. I mean, Anthony Edwards played like crap again last night. Got hurt on one ankle. Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, their bench showed up. Nazrid Divincenzo, Julius Randall. Pretty good. Divincenzo's trending toward Draymond territory with some. Some of these. No, he's not. Well, he's a very. Again, he. He. I don't think he's Draymond, Rob nor Lambert, but he's a very physical, feisty player. I think his dad was a cop. Not too much. Well, he's a Villanova guy. Villanova guys are tough. You go after Luca and LeBron. And now in this series, Jimmy Butler. You know who likes divincenzo? Chris Finch. He's his tough guy. Everybody needs an enforcer. You know, Jay Wright loved him. Yeah. I mean, the bottom line is I'll defend Rodman Lambert, defensendo, Draymond Green, every. What are we. What do we think the Celtics are missing? Dog. Tough guy. Minnie's got dog. I mean, I know. I mean, I'll tell you who's got dog. Denver Jokic has banged on players for years. Denver's got dog. Boston had Marcus Smart. They were like, too much. The dog thinks he's too much of a big dog. Taking all the shots. No, thanks. I'm sorry. I'm going to defend these guys forever. Not just because I work with Draymond. I'll defend them forever. Popovich, Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Chuck Daly. Four best coaches, arguably ever, all loved their enforcer. It's also like when you and I hang out, you know, you need me to step in sometimes. When fans get overzealous with you and want to buy you a drink, I'm like, hey, hey, settle down. Yeah. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Summer is almost here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with UberEats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you. You can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost. Almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Introducing Instagram teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they've got the right gear for writing.

[Draymond Green]

Knee pads.

[Colin Cowherd]

Check. And helmet. Done.

[Draymond Green]

See you, dad.

[Colin Cowherd]

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So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit Card is issued by Web Bank. In order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to Instant Rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini Credit Card terms, see Rates and Fees. So this is interesting. Brian Windhorst is a guy I trust and Brian Windhorst has been talking about this over the last couple days. If the Celtics lose this series and I still think Boston should win it, but we acknowledged this yesterday. The NBA is allowing the most physicality that I remember in the playoffs even above most years and we told you and have for years this is what the NBA does. It's a different level this year and that plays into New York's hand much more than it does the Celtics hand. But I still think the Celtics should be favored to win the series. And I know that's looney tunes but when Horst has been saying win or lose, but especially lose they may they're going to break this team up. They have new owners and there's just there's a lot of money here if you don't win. But what's interesting is Brad Stevens is a very smart GM and he is always ahead of the curve. If they go after Giannis and they're one of the few teams that would have a package to do it and he could stay in the east, what does it tell you about what he thinks about Tatum? Fans tend to think that if you score a bunch of points, you're a number one. No, James Harden was never a number one. He was a number one scorer, but Houston mistakingly thought you could build around him. Westbrook, Chris Paul, he didn't work with anybody because he doesn't work on the defensive end. And he's flighty and flaky. Okay, so he's not a number one. He's a number one score. Kawhi and Embiid, to me, they can't be number ones. They're never available. You can't have a quarterback play 11 to 12 games a year. That's not. I don't care. I don't care if they're as good as Lamar Jackson. You gotta be there every single Sunday playing hurt. You gotta be there. And so the NBA now even has minimums for awards. You have to play so many games. So I've always said this. I've always called Anthony Davis the best number two in the sport, is that he has the talent to be a one. But you can't really depend on him. Sometimes he's there, sometimes offensively he's not present. So if I had to pick a starting five with one bench, guy is the best number twos in the league. Many of these feel like number ones. I'd have Jimmy Butler, Jaylen Brown, Chet Holmgren, Anthony Davis, KAWHI Leonard and KD. And you think, oh, KD's a one. No, he's not. You can't build around him. He's a wanderer. You can never get an answer. He didn't like confrontation in the locker room from Draymond or on the bench. Steph is a one. KD's personality, his game's a one. So is John Morant's game. So is Zion Williamson's game. But they're twos, gifted twos. So to me, there are four things you need to be a one production. I mean, you can't score 12 a game and be a one production. Number two, physical and emotional reliability. You got to be there. You got to have your head on straight. That's Harden. Not. Not a one. Number three is durability. Kawhi, you gotta. You gotta play. And number four is dog. Gotta be a dog. And that's where Jason Tatum. And I'm not saying Tatum's not a one, but he struggles with the fourth one. He got be talked into it even when he didn't play much in the Olympics in his prime, his response was, well, it's just part of basketball. You think you're going to sit Kobe and MJ and not hear from it. You think you're going to sit LeBron and not hear from it. He was like Michael Jordan still holds a grudge because Isaiah Thomas froze him out in an All Star Game. In an All Star game, number four is dog. You want the ball and you demand it. When I watched Jayson Tatum's last shot, he goes left, chooses the wrong side, works himself into a double, goes into the defender and shoots a fallaway. Two of his last three shots were followers. I'm not denying he's a one, but he struggles with dog. He just does. And so I'm fascinated to see what Brad Stevens does. When they brought in Porzingis and Jrue Holliday, what they were telling you was, you know, we need to bring in two more offensive guys because sometimes our guy is not quite as dependable in big spots as we like. I always said this. You can tell what a team thinks of its quarterbacks by the plays it calls. You can tell what a GM thinks of his stars by what he surrounds him with. So if they said we'll get rid of Jalen Brown, we'll do this, we'll do this, we'll do this, we'll do this, we'll bring in Giannis, they're telling you sometimes with Tatum, we're not, we're not sure if he got that dog. Giannis may not be able to hit a free throw. He wants to dominate. Okay, LeBron O was wanted to Michael, we all know the players Bird magic, we all know doesn't mean you play great in every game six and seven. I'm not saying that everybody has bad games. Here's Rick Bucher yesterday on Tatum doesn't have a go to spot. He doesn't have a go to shot. He took fewer shots at the rim this season than he ever has in his career and his mid range went down as well. What compensated for that? He took nearly half of his shots from three point range. So now we're looking at your go to guy who if his three point shot is not falling, which it has not in this series, what's he going to I've said this. Phil Jackson may have had the triangle, but sometimes Kobe and MJ just went, yeah, we're gonna do my we're doing my triangle, not yours. Give me the ball. I think Tatum too often complies and is collaborative with this analytical three point parade and I think he should push back. And sometimes, guys, I'm getting a bucket. I'm taking the last eight shots and I'm not shooting threes. I'm getting buckets. But he's such a nice kid and he's so collaborative. This is just my opinion that this three point analytic parade that Boston does, he just goes along with it. I see him constantly beat guys off the dribble, then step back and shoot a three. Dude, just get to the basket and dunk. Just go to the basket, get better shots. But he is such a quality guy. And again, to me, there's four things you gotta have to be an absolute one. And I'm not saying he doesn't have dogs sometimes, but man, it can be a struggle. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. We why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kovino Enrich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake. That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. 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In order to Qualify for the Intro 200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts. This content is not investment advice and trading Crypto Involves risk. For more details on rates, fees and other Gemini credit card turn C rates and fees. All right, Paul Pierce said he would walk to work if the Celtics did not win game two. And the video was all over Instagram. So. And then Paul. This is Paul right here saying, yeah, okay, I'll walk to it.

[Draymond Green]

Look at this.

[Colin Cowherd]

Look how dark it is out.

[Draymond Green]

Five in the morning.

[Colin Cowherd]

Five in. Look at that.

[Draymond Green]

It took me seven hours. I'm still exhausted. Can't you tell? Look.

[Colin Cowherd]

So by the way, when Paul finally arrived at work, maybe you've seen this scene before. He. He had to be wheeled into work.

[Draymond Green]

Brings back memories, huh?

[Colin Cowherd]

Seven hours. What are your feet? You got size 14, 15ft.

[Draymond Green]

My feet are torched right now.

[Colin Cowherd]

What? Wait, here's my thing. It's one thing to blow a 20 point lead in game one. I didn't look at that as embarrassing. I said, listen, you led by 20, you beat this team all year. What am I supposed to make of that offense in the last eight minutes of game two at home?

[Draymond Green]

You know what, Colin? That's a mindset. Truthfully, that has nothing to do with game planning. That's a mindset. So many like, the game plan is there, you go up 20. The game plan is there. It's nothing. Missoula. Nothing more he can do. The game plan is there, the blueprint is there. Y' all did it all year long. Y' all go, y' all go about the game print for three quarters and then all of a sudden just mental lapse in the fourth quarter. That's all it is. It's not, it's not ex's owns at this point.

[Colin Cowherd]

But why doesn't Tatum. And I've said I understand the fascination and the analytics and Brad Stevens building a three point shooting roster.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

But at some point I, and I've said this. Michael and Kobe and Paul Pierce would have pushed back and said, guys, I'm getting a basket for sure. I think Jason is too collaborative. Dude, grab the ball and take it to the basket.

[Draymond Green]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Four or five times in a row. Even his last shot, left side fall away. Is it fair to say he has to be convinced to be a dog?

[Draymond Green]

That's fair. Times. Because I feel like that about him, you know? Cause I see it. I know it's in him because I've seen it a bunch of times.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Draymond Green]

I mean, you just don't become a first team all NBA player without some of it. Yes, exactly. I mean, talent could take you so far. I get it. But mentality can Take you further. And the guys that you talk about have it all the time and never cut it off. Sometimes I feel like he goes away, he forgets about it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

And has to be constantly reminded to be that way.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. The NBA is allowing a very physical playoff brand.

[Draymond Green]

I love it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, so do I. And for the record, that's why you flourished in the playoffs. You were a physical player. You played defense. Can I argue that this level of physicality, Chris Finch and Steve Kerr, like, this is the next level, that it actually, I could argue benefits the less talented team. This is going to be a close series because the Knicks aren't pretty, the Celtics are pretty. Everybody can pass the Knicks art. And when you let OG grab and lean that the new officiating leans into New York's favor.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, you know what? You know what's so crazy about that? I always said when I played on teams that weren't. Wasn't as good, I said, we have to do something different. When I played at the park, when I played at au, when I played in high school, when we weren't a better team, that team, I said, you got. You know what, guys? And this was the game plan. This was always the game plan. Collins. Since I've been a kid, I said, we gotta junk up the game.

[Colin Cowherd]

Junk it up.

[Draymond Green]

We gotta junk the game up. And by saying that we gotta foul, we gotta grab, we gotta push, we gotta do things that they not used to doing. We gotta take this game to the playgrounds.

[Colin Cowherd]

So this is what we said about the Knicks. The playground has beating the classroom.

[Draymond Green]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

And the Knicks are a playground team and the other guys are math guys.

[Draymond Green]

Absolutely. That's exactly what you see right here. And that's the only way you bring a team that's up here to you, down to your level, you junk it up. It's like a boxing match, you know what I'm saying? Like a guy was more talented, but then you start grabbing, holding, you know, doing things that this better boxer just not used to doing. And you junk it up. Body blows, body blow, grabbing, holding, elbow, head button. You start doing things. And that's what the Knicks are doing. Right to the Celtics.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, I, I said this. I was very reluctant to say Jalen Brunson's a one, but I gotta tell you, one is about durability and toughness and resilience in dog. Yeah, I think he's a one.

[Draymond Green]

What does that mean?

[Colin Cowherd]

I. I have.

[Draymond Green]

He can be your best player on the championship team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes. Here's. Here's what I say there's four things to be a one, okay, Productivity can average nine a game. You have to be emotionally and physically ready to play every night. You have to be durable. Kawhi Leonard's available. 38, that's not a one. I can't build around you. And four, you have to have a dog. You got to be a dog at least some of the time. You got to want to close. You can't run from the shot. And then I look at him and I go, okay. I'm not saying he's LeBron in his prime. I'm not saying he's Paul Pierce. I'm not saying he's Tatum. But what box doesn't? He's a great closer. He's productive. He's durable. He's emotionally always available. There are no. He has bad games. He never has a no show game.

[Draymond Green]

I just like, Jalen Brunson is an amazing player. He's one of the top point guards. I would love him to be on the next Olympic team when it gets to la. I just don't think he can be your best player on A championship team.

[Colin Cowherd]

1A, he can be 1A. Giannis goes to New York, he can.

[Draymond Green]

Be the okay, right.

[Colin Cowherd]

He'll have the ball more than Giannis. Yeah, he'll hit the free throws late over Giannis. Yes, but Giannis will be the force.

[Draymond Green]

Absolutely. Like Kobe and, and Shaq. You know what I'm saying? Kobe was the finisher, but we all knew Shaq was dominant and all of that. Yeah, I agree. But like, I just. Point guards, as good as they are, as good as he is, I don't think a point guard can be your best player. Now, if your point guard is your best player on the championship team, that means he's an all time great. I'm Talking about top 10, Seth, Magic, Isaiah, that, that, and that comes around almost never. You have to have the dynamic wing. I say this all the time. Their dynamic wing has to be your best player on a championship.

[Colin Cowherd]

I most agree. Yeah. Yeah.

[Draymond Green]

And so as good as he is, and they may get out of this series with the Celtics, I just think they're missing one piece. And it could be like a Giannis in New York.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, So I have defended Draymond Green for a long time. I've said this. The three villains in league history that I watched were Rodman, Lambert and Draymond. They leaned into it. They were comfortable being it. Lambert and Draymond are better offensively than Rodman. They take your best offensive player. They're going to ugly up the game. They're going to get technicals. They will be. Fans will be the rudest and sometimes inappropriate toward them. Aggression meets aggression. But I don't. When Draymond says the league is. He feels the league is picking on him. My take is, bro, you chose to be the wrestling heel.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, yeah. You know what? Draymond, he definitely chose that. Like, I watch his antics and I see it. I know how guys do. And he's flailing purposely. Cause I've seen it. I've been in the game where guys do that. And yeah, he's definitely embraced it. But it has to be a point where he should study Dennis Rodman. Cause Dennis Rodman was so good at getting under your skin without all the extras. Like how he used to force Alonzo Mourning to get technicals, or Karl Malone. Like, you know how he would stand at the free throw line, stare at him, Little stuff like that. Like, he would just get under their skin. I used to watch Robin, like, dang, he not even doing all the bull crap. Stuff like Draymond elbow. But he's under this guy's skin and he is out of his game right now. And I think Draymond should study that because that's. He's like the new generation.

[Colin Cowherd]

That Draymond's a little more Bill Lambert, a little more tackling and obvious.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, yeah. He's more like, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Was there ever a place, obviously when you came, you were from la, so you weren't a real villain, even though you were a Celtic. Like, there were a lot of people that loved you in la. Did you ever go into any arena and feel like, man, they hate me here?

[Draymond Green]

Oh, man, A lot of arenas, man. Indiana, Toronto. I'll never forget that because I. When I got to Washington, I said something prior to the playoffs. And I just remember when I got introduced, it was booze. But I, like, I just think being a Celtic is. You're a villain. Like, it doesn't even matter. Like, how we talk about Tatum, how he talked about Larry Bird and all. Constant. The best. Celtics were always just like. It was always the villain Celtic. And they always carried you wherever you went. It carried me when I left Boston, you know, in Brooklyn, I got booed at the All Star Game. Here in la, I did. I got introduced for the three point contest. I was the defending three point champ. And I came back, and the next year I was in LA and they introduced me and they booed me, and I was like, damn.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like, I'm from down the street.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, I'm from around the world, around the way. So, I mean, it never bothered me. But that. That was probably the only time it bothered me because it was the All Star Game. And I'm like, these. Everybody here is not LA fans. Like, come on.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so I did this list earlier. J. Mac didn't love it. I said, just because a guy scores James Harden doesn't mean he's a one. I need guys that play both ends. I need guys that are available emotionally, physically. I need dog. And the truth is this is my current list. Now, Butler may have been that four years ago. Okay, so my six, the best sidekicks. Jalen Brown, Butler, Durant, Kawhi, Hongren, Davis. Davis. Just offensively, I'm not quite sure what I get night tonight. You said to me, well, where's LeBron?

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, LeBron should be on this list. Top NBA sidekicks. Jamal Murray should be on this list.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, Jamal and Booker were my next two.

[Draymond Green]

Okay, okay, well, definitely LeBron now.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you think LeBron is a two?

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I witnessed it the last 30 games of the season. I saw Luka take over the dynamics of the silt of the. Of the Lakers, become the guy number one in jersey sales, cheered amongst the fans, and LeBron took the back seat. And that's what pushed him to the number three seed in the West.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I argue there are 20 ones in the league. J. Max. Like, there's 20.

[Draymond Green]

No.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so let's do it again. So I. He said Halliburton. And I. I said, oh, that's a.

[Draymond Green]

No, not a one. What are we talking about? Ones, Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, one is.

[Draymond Green]

What is a one?

[Colin Cowherd]

Productivity.

[Draymond Green]

Oh, a one. Is he. Can he be the best player on a ch. Championship team? That's a one to me.

[Colin Cowherd]

You don't think Halliburton can win a title?

[Draymond Green]

I think he can win a title, but can he be the best player on a championship team?

[Colin Cowherd]

They win tonight, he's. He's gonna be in the Eastern Conference finals against the Knicks.

[Draymond Green]

Can he be the best player on a championship?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, then there's like four in the world.

[Draymond Green]

There's only four or five that can win it every year.

[Colin Cowherd]

Those are the only ones?

[Draymond Green]

Yep.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you're telling me, do you. Do you. Okay, let me. Let me think about this. Hold on. Is SG1?

[Draymond Green]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

You think that team can win?

[Draymond Green]

Yes. Is Joker a one? Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Always the best player in the world.

[Draymond Green]

Yes. Who are the contenders?

[Colin Cowherd]

Giannis. Okay. Okay. Tatum.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah. He showed he could.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. Yeah, but he did it. Well, he already did he did it. Won the MVP.

[Draymond Green]

Okay.

[Colin Cowherd]

But we all know is ant A1.

[Draymond Green]

Absolutely.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. I think is Kawhi.

[Draymond Green]

No, not no more.

[Colin Cowherd]

Gotta give me more than 40 games.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, not no more.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you don't think so? Like, I think leadership matters. I never thought Harden was a one. He didn't defend by May and June. He was so worn out because he had the ball in his hands. I never thought he was a one. I thought he was a great number two.

[Draymond Green]

He could have paired him with somebody else. He could have won it. He didn't have a good parent.

[Colin Cowherd]

How about Donovan Mitchell?

[Draymond Green]

That's a good one right there.

[Colin Cowherd]

I think he's one.

[Draymond Green]

I'm conflicted with Donovan Mitchell because of his size at 64, 63. That conflicts me.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. So I'll tell you one I never thought I. I don't buy into Embiid. Even when he was healthier. I think he disrupts your offense. I think he's moody. I think he was not available. Never been to a conference championship. When LeBron left the east and it was wide open, couldn't win a second playoff series.

[Draymond Green]

I think MB can. He's been an MVP in this league. There's the formula. To win it all, you have to have an MVP candidate.

[Colin Cowherd]

That was a wobbly mvp.

[Draymond Green]

That wasn't a wobbly one.

[Colin Cowherd]

Jokic.

[Draymond Green]

Everybody was like, I mean, y could have got it. Yus could have got. But he was still first team all.

[Colin Cowherd]

Shouldn't you have to win a second playoff series in the East? I'm not, I'm not asking much.

[Draymond Green]

I mean, he had, he had to run into the Celtics.

[Colin Cowherd]

That was before that.

[Draymond Green]

That was. That's like, that's like Baltimore or the Buffalo Bills keep having to run into each other or, or, or Kansas City. We all know they could probably win it, but they keep the path. This is a wrong path for them.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, so you like Embiid more than I do.

[Draymond Green]

I like him.

[Colin Cowherd]

You like Harden more than I do. Halliburton has done something Embiid hasn't.

[Draymond Green]

Yeah, he's had a better team.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's going to be on his second Eastern Conference finals as a kid.

[Draymond Green]

That's true.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you don't. You're one of these overrated guys.

[Draymond Green]

No, I, I wouldn't have called him overrated. He's one of those guys that's mind boggling because it seems like he elevates his game in the playoffs. I've seen that, like now over multiple years. He's like, he's like Jimmy Butler. In a way, yes. You know what I'm saying? Like Jimmy Butler, kind of like he gets through the regular season, he's a fringe all star, but then playoffs, he just becomes this mega superstar, you know, and that's Halliburton.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right. Good seeing you, my man.

[Draymond Green]

Good to see you always.

[Colin Cowherd]

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