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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Jason McIntyre
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- [01:01]
Colin Cowherd
Rocket Mortgage, LLC. Licensed in 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030 Summer is here and you.
- [01:08]
Jason McIntyre
Can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No? A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it, or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade Vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmick. Smooth, clean tasting, made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's Soda, one lime, a lot of ice. Refreshing easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen. Baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly. Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
- [02:44]
Colin Cowherd
This is the best of the herd.
- [02:46]
Jason McIntyre
With Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.
- [02:52]
Colin Cowherd
Hello and welcome to the herd. It's a beautiful Friday. The Choklahoma City Thunder, they go down. Overrated SGA takes it out. Oh, ladies and gentlemen, we got a great show today. I'm fired up. I am extremely excited. What the helly happened last night in OkC? It's me, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd. He's back next week. I know you're geeked. I know you're excited. Coward's back. Joined as always by Alex. Furry Alex. No, no, no, no. It's gonna be a good one.
- [03:23]
Alex
Like, what a banger.
- [03:24]
Colin Cowherd
Way to end the week. Like, holy Halliburton. Game winner, your boy Aaron Rodgers finally signing with the Steelers.
- [03:32]
Alex
I'm like, happy Friday.
- [03:33]
Colin Cowherd
Let's go. Yeah, let's go. I thought I was going to be the theme for today. Squabble up and talk about a billionaire and the president going out of the. That's a no fly zone, J. Mac. Okay, fine, fine. We'll talk about game one of the NBA finals. And guys, listen, I could probably do 30 minutes right out the gate on that gate. It was bonkers. But the one obvious thing we have to start with is death, death, taxes and Tyrese Halliburton. Nobody is had a clutch postseason like Halliburton has, folks. He did this against the Bucks in the opening round, the driving layup. He did this against the Cavs to basically squash them in game two. And of course against my New York Knicks. Tyrese Halliburton is the man. The pull up jumper with 3/10 of a second left gives the Pacers the win. They were 10 point underdogs on the road and Halliburton delivers. Now there's so many layers to this. I will try to contain myself. But first, let's get this out of the way early. Here's the audio from the Indiana Pacers radio call of Tyrese Halliburton vanquishing the Thunder.
- [04:43]
Jason McIntyre
Eight seconds to go.
- [04:44]
Colin Cowherd
The Pacers are not going to call a timeout.
- [04:47]
Jason McIntyre
Halliburton has it with three, driving with.
- [04:49]
Colin Cowherd
Two, pulling up and hitting with three.
- [04:53]
Jason McIntyre
Tenths of a second to go.
- [04:55]
Alex
How many more times can this team do that?
- [05:01]
Colin Cowherd
You gotta love it. You see all those OKC fans hit the surrender cobra hands on their head. What did I just witness? But here's the best part about Halliburton beating OKC last night. So Tyrese was in the Dorset Chamber all night. Lou Dort locked him up. I'm not gonna lie. Luke Dort did a tremendous job on Halliburton. And Halliburton had a quiet game. And you're like, oh, where's Halliburton? And my guy Richard Jefferson, you know, play with me in the men's league. He's a great human being. He's talking about in the fourth quarter. Hey, Tyrese Halliburton, you can't shoot tour dates, okay? In game one of the NBA Finals. And Halliburton had a quiet game, but he wasn't forcing anything. And that's important because as soon as they got a chance to win, just keep it close, keep it close. OKC was going to fold. And there is an element to okc and we'll get to them later. Trust me. Plenty to do on okc, but we're going to focus on the positive here at the outset. But there is a Mike Tyson element to the Thunder, right? They want to knock you out. That's what they do. They had the most double digit wins, I believe in NBA history. Our guest Anthony Slater had that yesterday. Something like 61 wins by double figures. That's more than the KD Curry Warriors. They want to knock you out. But they couldn't knock the Pacers out. They attempt. They were up 15 in the fourth quarter. This game was eerily reminiscent of that choke by the Thunder in game one against Denver. A lot of self inflicted wounds. And we'll talk about the coach a little bit later. Dag, don't coached a terrible game. Only way to grade him on that was an F from the starting lineup to the closing lineup. He was awful. But I do want to focus on the positive in the Pacers here, folks. When you look at the box score, you don't understand. It kind of breaks your brain a little bit. Okay? Indiana averaged 12 turnovers a game. They had 24 last night. They had 18 in the first half. I mean, they were on pace for 36 turnovers. However, Rick Carlisle, who I hyped up when I picked the Pacers 4:2 yesterday, I hyped up Rick Carlisle. I said, listen, this guy's good. Look what he did to LeBron and the Heatles. Fourth quarter, Pacers had one turnover early on. They could not handle the pressure. They made adjustments. Carlisle's a master. So not only did they turn the ball over 24 times, but did you see the steals in this game? 14 steals for OKC, one for the Pacers. How do you win a game like that? Well, it's a three point shooting. And again, this was One of the keys to victory for the Pacers. Number one three point shooting team in the playoffs. 40% last night, seven more threes than the PA than the Thunder. Seven times three. 21 in a one point game. You win threes by that much, folks. I mean, you're looking on the screen here. That Andrew Nemhard banger. Now, some of it was luck, obviously, but look at Nemard between the legs. Bang. Right in Wallace's face. And then he did it to his fellow countryman Sheikhil. Just Alexander, by the way. They got into it. We'll also talk about that. But like, was there some flukiness? Yeah, Miles Turner ain't going to bank in threes, right? Right. Obi Toppin turned into Steph Curry there in the fourth quarter. But ultimately it came down to Tyrese Halliburton. Here's Tyrese. After the victory, we got to stop, you know, and coach, trust us in.
- [08:13]
Tyrese Halliburton
Those moments to not call timeouts. Trust me in those moments, guys. Trust me and just try to make a play.
- [08:18]
Colin Cowherd
So basketball's fun, man. Winning is fun.
- [08:21]
Alex
That's.
- [08:21]
Colin Cowherd
That's a great win for us. Basketball is fun. I was watching with my kids last night, and when SGA bricks an eight footer. Yeah. The mid range is back, right? And the Pacers get a shot. I'm watching my kids, we're all standing up. I'm like, do I get video of myself? Do I do one of those nerdy reaction videos?
- [08:39]
Alex
No.
- [08:39]
Colin Cowherd
No. Let me just watch it. And you got. Halliburton got the ball and you're like, oh, it's a problem. And it's interesting because against the Bucks, he drove for the layup. Against the Cavs, step back. Against Ty Jerome. Against the Knicks, Mitchell Robinson. Step back three. He didn't. The Thunder had scattered him. They knew what was coming. They knew time and situation. Just a pull up, pull up jumper, 21 footer bang from Halliburton. And as soon as it went up, I was like, oh, that's cash. It's over. And he hits it. And my kids don't really know Tyrese Halliburton. You know, he's not a well known superstar, but the legend is growing pretty quickly. And I don't know if you guys have seen this on the Internet, but there's this funny mashup because Tyrese Halliburton is. He's kind of different, right? He's just like a little goofy at times. He's got a funky looking shot. He's always smiling and happy and there's a mashup of Tyrese Halliburton and Steve Urkel on the Internet. I don't know if you guys have seen that, but Steve Urkel, of course, Family Matter is Jaleel White, iconic TGIF show. I don't even know if Alex was born at the time I watched tgif, you know, nerdy Jason, sixth grader watching Steve Urkel. And there should be a new nickname for Tyrese Halliburton. Why not Halliburkel? Because once you see the video of Steve Urkel, remember there was one game where Steve Urkel's going off Tyrese Halliburton kind of doing the same thing. Halliburkel. Is that going to stick much more on this game later? I promise you we'll come back to it because I haven't taken my jabs at okc and they're coming, folks. But I do need to pivot because there was some big news in the NFL on Thursday. Our long national nightmare, mercifully, is over. Aaron Rodgers is flying to Pittsburgh today to sign a contract and play for the Pittsburgh Steelers next year. It's over. I mean, we had to deal with what, four months of reporters saying, this is the week Aaron Rodgers is probably. No, no, not this week. It's next week. I mean, you know, guys just whiffing all over the place because nobody knows what Aaron Rodgers is going to do. But you got to be honest, guys, if you're a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, you have to be thrilled. Absolutely geeked that Aaron Rodgers waited until the very last moment possible before mandatory appearances were required to sign in Pittsburgh. You know, usually your quarterback, he's showing up in a new city, showing up with a new offensive coordinator, new wide receiver, new running. He had a lot of newness.
- [11:09]
Jason McIntyre
You.
- [11:09]
Colin Cowherd
He wants to get in the building early, got to hit the ground running. Gotta beat my guys. I'm here. First in, last out. Aaron Rodgers is letting you know right out of the gate I'm calling the shots. You guys obviously remember that great Tom Cruise movie with the Somali pirates. And the guy goes, I'm the captain now. Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks. I'm sorry, Tom Hanks. This was Aaron Rodgers essentially saying, hey, this is my show. Mike Tomlin, you're a great coach. Arthur Smith, I don't know how I'm going to deal with you, but I'm running the show. Aaron Rodgers said, I'm signing now. Here I am. And, folks, you know, I don't know how this is going to go. We got. We got a Lot of newness in Pittsburgh and our, our staff put together a little chart. So Najee Harris, he gone their number one running back, number one wide receiver. Pickens, he just got shipped. Tight end is the same, their number two wide receiver. He's also new. Their left tackle, Broderick Jones, he was not the full time starter last year. Look at all this newness in Pittsburgh. If you guys are looking for a team that's going to be potentially rocky, I think the Pittsburgh Steelers are the ones. Now we remember Brett Favre. When he left Green Bay, he had a pit stop in New York. It went great for half a season and then, oh, he gad zooks, it totally nuked. Then he left for Minnesota, found his groove again. I mean, I think he was nearly the MVP of the league. And they lose in the conference championship game. That fateful interception over the middle. One wonders. Aaron Rodgers leads Green Bay. Pit stop in New York, not great. Will he find the fountain of youth in Pittsburgh? I'm here to tell you that's not happening. And all this Aaron Rodgers far comparisons, I think we're going to have to put them in the rearview mirror. Yes, Rodgers incredible career. There was a time when he won the two MVPs in Green Bay. I was like, oh, he's a top five quarterback all time. He does have the Super Bowls. But man, the arm strength, the stats, the lack of interception, I mean Aaron Rodgers is great. And then in New York you're like hurt, not awesome. Final year in Green Bay and Mike Tomlin has this long, amazing track record of never have a losing record. I have it as 18 seasons without a losing record. For Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh, that's the most consecutive non losing seasons. Only behind Bill Belichick as you can see on the screen with 19. And Tom Landry, the great Cowboys coach with 21. Here's the thing with Tomlin, I think this is going to be the year they don't hit.500. And that's tough because it's going to reflect poorly on Aaron Rodgers. I mean, remember, Tomlin has stayed.500 or better with a poo poo platter of quarterbacks since Ben Roethlisberger retired. I'm talking, you know, some jokers out there, okay? And I'm not really feeling this Rogers vibe. We already have seen reports. Hey man, you know Arthur Smith's personality, you know Aaron Rodgers, they're going to be butting heads out of the gate, okay? Aaron, when he went to New York, they just gave him everything he wanted. Oh, you want Randall Cobb, you want Alan Lazard, come on down. You want Nathaniel Hackett? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Steelers ain't doing that. So Rogers is now not going into a comfortable setting. Newness all over the place. I'm very reluctant that The Steelers are a.500 team. This. The signing by Rogers win total didn't move. You know, it was probably baked in that he was going to sign there. But the opener against my jets is interesting because it pits Justin Fields against Aaron Rodgers. Justin Fields was in Pittsburgh last year. Rogers was at the Jets. The line did bump up to Steelers -3 in New York. I'm going to be headed to Vegas this weekend and I would love to bet the jets not. I'm not going to unload the bank account, but I'm just telling you right now, that jets pass rush, you don't think those jets are going to be motivated to go after Rodgers? The way that tenure went in New York, folks, it's not going to be pretty for Aaron Rodgers in Pittsburgh. I mean, I asked the staff rank the quarterbacks in the division. I mean, he ain't better than Lamar Jackson or Joe Burrow, that's for sure. So at best, you've got the third best quarterback. Pro Football Focus had Pittsburgh 21st, best roster in the league. That's not great. I don't know. This smells to me like 7 and 10 Pittsburgh and Aaron Rodgers feels like it's over. All right, we have a phenomenal show ahead. And coming up next, how can the Thunder bounce back in game two Sunday night? They had a lot of mistakes. I'll tell you everything that went wrong next here on the Herd.
- [15:49]
Jason McIntyre
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
- [15:55]
Colin Cowherd
Radio FS1 and the iHeartradio app.
- [15:58]
Jason McIntyre
Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, that's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. But what about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. The NBA Finals are almost here, and every play could be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs. Legacies are built, heroes rise, and the action never lets up with DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. You don't just watch the madness, you live it back. Your favorite team ride with your clutch time killer bet on the buzzer beaters, the breakout performances, the game winning threes player props to same game parlays. This is how you take your fandom to the next level. If you're new to the game, no sweat. Just download the DraftKings sportsbook app. Takes 90 seconds. Bet just five bucks. That's it. Five bucks. If your bet wins, you'll score $300 in bonus bets. It's that easy. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app. The code is heard. Code Herd for new customers to get 300 bucks in bonus bets. If your $5 bet wins only on DraftKings, the crown is yours.
- [18:01]
Colin Cowherd
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- [18:37]
Jason McIntyre
If you're an inventory specialist in a warehouse, Grainger knows you've probably faced a situation like this before. Your forklift, your facility's workhorse is leaking hydraulic fluid, and with a full schedule of shipments on the docket, this has the potential to cause a major delay of game. But you're not worried. You're prepared for this type of situation, and you have an ace in the hole. Grainger Grainger offers professional grade products for every industry, from hydraulic oils and hoses. So much more. Plus fast, dependable delivery. So you can be confident that you'll have the product you need on hand to fix that forklift and get it back in the game. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. You know, there are moments in life where you get to make a real difference. And this is one of them. I want to tell you about Folds of Honor. They provide educational scholarships to the spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. Think about that for a second. Families who've lost everything or are rebuilding their lives. And this organization steps in to make sure their kids can still go to college or a spouse can get the training they need to keep moving forward. Since 2007, they've awarded nearly 62,000 scholarships. Last year, about 7,000 qualified students didn't receive funding. In this year, that number is expected to grow to nearly 10,000. So if you've been looking for a way to give back to do something really meaningful, this is it. Go to foldsofhonor.org give what you can. It all matters. Honor their sacrifice by educating their legacy.
- [20:14]
Colin Cowherd
Back here on the Herd. I will say having a game last night, extra bounce in my step this morning. Couldn't sleep last night. I was so gay. Geeked over Tyrese Halliburton heroics. We'll have some interesting stories in her line coming up in about eight minutes. Okay, so I, I glazed as the young kids say Halliburton and the Pacer. So now let me take some shots at okc. So growing up, one of my favorite coaches in all of sports was this guy named Pat Riley. Had the slick back look on the sideline with the Lakers. Armani suits. He was the man. He had a cool mantra. No rebounds, no rings. It's pretty simple, right? Rebound the basketball. Don't get second chances. OKC did something so stupid last night. I just, I don't know what they did here. So I even mentioned yesterday, I don't see Hartenstein playing a lot in the series. I don't anticipate a lot of double bigs. Pacers can play five out, everybody can hit threes. So Dagnall pulls his starting center, Isaiah Hartenstein and starts K's on Wallace. So on the surface, okay, I guess that makes sense. Here's the interesting part. They never started that five man unit before. As a starting group in the playoffs, I think they'll leave 16 games to get to the finals. Never used that starting group once. You're like ah, okay. But they still led by 15 in the fourth, right? And then down the stretch, for reasons I haven't seen a logical explanation, Dagnaut pulled Chet Holmgren for case on Wallace So now you have no Hartenstein and no Chet. So what happens in the final three minutes? The Pacers go on a 13 to 4 run, score inside at will, grab two offensive boards, put him back. It's like, what was he thinking? And you know, listen, you never want to overreact after one game. I think I referenced the Allen Iverson Lakers game where Iverson hit that shot in overtime, steps over Tyron Lue, and the Sixers win. It was a shocker. I remember with my family. We were on a family vacation, and because school had just let out, and I was watching it at, like, wherever we were, I was like, oh, my gosh, are the Lakers in trouble? And Lakers steamrolled him the rest of the way. However, here's SGA after the loss.
- [22:31]
Tyrese Halliburton
How you lose doesn't really matter. Obviously it sucks. Last second shot, but the energy in the arena and stuff like that. But we lost. At the end of the day, the series isn't first to one, it's first to four. So we have four more games to get. They have three. And that's just where we are. We got to understand that. And we got to get to four before they get to three. If you want to win an NBA championship. And it's that simple. It's not rocket science. We lost game one. We have to be better.
- [22:57]
Colin Cowherd
So the Pacers out rebounded the Thunder 56, 39 + 17. The Pacers were on the glass. Shot him out. Shot him from three. Now let me take a quick moment to talk about everybody's favorite basketball player. Shea Gilgis Alexander. Okay? Yesterday, I compared him to James Harden. I had former NBA players coming at me on social media for this take. I'm like, oh, guys, settle down. Hey, relax. Last night during the game, SGA cooking from the mid range. My buddies are texting me, Boy, SGA better than James Harden. J. Mac. All right, what happened down the stretch, ladies and gentlemen? SGA bricks an eight footer. Tyrese Halliburton comes down. Clutch city. Okay, I'm not a Tyrese Halliburton hater. I'm not. I'm just a realist. On what? In. On what planet is 40 minutes and 3 assists for your point guard like a good game? Is he making anybody better? 38 points on 30 shots. That's not efficient, guys. He. He had a good scoring game for three quarters, and in the fourth quarter, he folded. He was not great. And this is what's interesting. He was getting frustrated. Our. Our staff came up with some numbers here. Sga, AKA the free Throw. Merchant gets to the line like nobody's business. He could not get to the line last night. He only got to the free throw line eight times, and eight is the line of demarcation. The Thunder are four and three in the playoffs. When SGA attempts eight or fewer free throws, eight or more, they're unstoppable. They're eight and two. One of the keys to this offense is SGA getting in your head, getting your guys in foul trouble. And there was a small moment in the fourth quarter. I don't know if you saw this. The announcers didn't make a big deal out of it. SGA is going against his guy, Andrew Nemhard. And you see this play by Nemhard, and he was upset. Look what SGA does. Reacts with a shove. Referee didn't step in or anything. SGA goes to the foul line. Nemart goes and bumps him off his spot. You like that, boy? Nemart is a dog. He is becoming one of my favorite guys. But this SGA moment where he shoves him, that's the opposite of what happened in the Minnesota series. Remember, Jaden McDaniels was so pissed, he just shoved SGA. And then his comment afterward was like, oh, yeah, you can't really foul him. I wanted to see if you could really allow to shove him or whatever it was. And I just. I don't want to crush sga. They may come back and win the series. Thunder may win the next four. But I was talking with Shady McCoy show before us. I said, I might take Halliburton over SGA if I'm starting a team. Halliburton makes everyone better. And he's like, I don't think I could talk to you anymore, J. Mac. And we're friends, but I'm being honest here. Tyrese Halliburton, there's something about this guy. And I don't know if sga, I don't want to say, has that clutch gene, but people love to say, like, what is the guy's defining moment? Oh, Michael Jordan with the. The shot against the Utah Jazz. Magic Johnson, the hook shot against the Celtics. A lot of guys have defining shots. I mean, Tyrese Haliburton has an entire postseason of them right now. Okay, has SGA had his moment? Maybe it's coming in the series. It's possible. But just watching last night, he got a little frustrated. He missed a potential shot to put him up three with 11 seconds left. And all Tyrese Halliburton does is deliver. So I have some real questions about OKC. I did pick Indiana in 6. And just watching Tyrese operate when it mattered most versus watching SGA. Like SGA is great in that Mike Tyson role. Hey, we're going to knock you the bleep out. We're going to put you down 20. It's game over. It's laughing on the sidelines if they don't get to that. They have had problems in close games. SGA might be time to step up in game two, buddy.
- [26:54]
Jason McIntyre
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.
- [26:59]
Steve Covino
Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that while other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe Noanrich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.
- [27:56]
Jason McIntyre
Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast so while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. If you're an inventory specialist in a warehouse, Grainger knows you've probably faced a situation like this before. Your forklift, your facility's workhorse, is leaking hydraulic fluid, and with a full schedule of shipments on the docket, this has the potential to cause a major delay of game. But you're not worried. You're prepared for this type of situation and you have an ace in the hole. Grainger Grainger offers professional grade products for every industry from hydraulic oils and hoses. So much more. Plus fast, dependable delivery. So you can be confident that you'll have the product you need on hand to fix that forklift and get it back in the game. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. You know, there are moments in life where you get to make a real difference, and this is one of them I want to tell you about Folds of Honor. They provide educational scholarships to the spouses and children of fallen or disabled military members and first responders. Think about that for a second. Families who've lost everything or are rebuilding their lives, and this organization steps in to make sure their kids can still go to college or a spouse can get the training they need to keep moving forward. Since 2007, they've awarded nearly 62,000 scholarships. Last year, about 7,000 qualified students didn't receive funding, and this year that number is expected to grow to nearly 10,000. So if you've been looking for a way to give back to do something really meaningful, this is it. Go to foldsofhonor.org give what you can. It all matters. Honor their sacrifice by educating their legacy. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.
- [31:03]
Colin Cowherd
No, you've made it. When? Not only did you work for an NBA front office, but you created a stat that everybody references all the time per player efficiency rating. Let's bring on John Hollinger of the Athletic, one of the sharper minds in the NBA. John, good to finally talk to you, man. I was rattled after last night's game. I'm curious your. Your thoughts in the moment and now that you've had, you know, 12 hours or whatever to sleep on it.
- [31:30]
Alex
Yeah, I thought it was the most. Thank you. Thank you for thinking I got 12 hours of sleep last night. That's about six times as much as I actually got. But the most shocking game, one finals game since Nick Anderson 30 years ago. Right. Just the way it played out with Oklahoma City seeming in total control and then Indiana rallying right at the end and Halliburton again at the finish.
- [31:55]
Colin Cowherd
It seemed like the Denver game. I don't know if you remember the Denver game. One comeback.
- [32:00]
Alex
Absolutely.
- [32:00]
Colin Cowherd
This was like a carbon copy. Denver dominated the glass, Pacers dominated the glass. And then a bit of a coaching meltdown. Were you surprised, John, that he pulled Shet Holmgren with like three minutes left down the stretch and they went no bigs?
- [32:14]
Alex
I was not at all. I rewatched the game this morning. Chet Holgren was terrible. So that was one of the reasons he couldn't stick with him. The other thing was he did the same thing at the end of the first half, and the Pacers couldn't even run anything against their five smalls. They just turned it over every single time. So I thought that was fine. If you look at the shots they got, the shots Indiana made those last few minutes, I think Oklahoma City lives with that. The problem was they should have been up by 25 at the time, and they were only up 8. The game was still close enough for Indiana to get by making a couple of unlikely shots. And the Thunder missed a couple of open threes and had the lane violation on Siakam's free throw. But those, those mistakes, it was possible for those to flip the game because Oklahoma City in the first 45 minutes didn't stick the knife all the way in.
- [33:01]
Colin Cowherd
So that's a good point, because this whole knockout punch, this Mike TYSON element that OKC has, usually they go up 20, 25, it's lights out, but they got stuck around the 13, 15. They could not push it more than that. Is there anything the Pacers were doing to prevent themselves from getting knocked out? Was it just hustling back on defense, no transition points? What was it?
- [33:25]
Alex
Oklahoma City shot really poorly at the, at the rim, and I think Miles Turner was a big factor in that. When I rewatched the Game he had several really good contests at the rim. Jalen Williams shot 6 and 19. Some of them were a little rushed, but some of them were shots that I think he would, he would be okay taken and he just didn't get to go down. You're shown one of the worst ones there.
- [33:48]
Jason McIntyre
And.
- [33:49]
Alex
And again they got, they got nothing from homegrown. You're right. The points off turnovers were very, were very low. It was just that they didn't quite get. They weren't quite the turnovers that lead to runouts. Just the way they happen. It's just luck of the draw sometimes with that.
- [34:05]
Colin Cowherd
I.
- [34:05]
Alex
But I think if Oklahoma City looks back at this game, they're going to be really disappointed with their offense and especially in the first half that they just left money on the table.
- [34:15]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I'm looking. Yeah. Chad Holmgren 2 of 9, J Dubs 6 of 19. So essentially John, they're. They're number two and three guys. Whatever order you put those two in, they were 8 of 28, but they combined to take fewer shots than SGA. Now, I know SGA is bulletproof. You can't say anything negative about him. Everybody loves him. He's like a media darling. I didn't think he Was particularly efficient. 38 points on 30 shots. Didn't get to the line as many times as you'd expect. And he looked rattled there when he shoved Nemhard in the fourth quarter. Almost looked frustrated. I don't know. Any takeaways watching the game a second time on sga.
- [34:52]
Alex
Yeah, I thought again in that first half they were going too quick on offense, too much one on one and they're working some, some forced poles in there. They did a really good job of actually not letting him get all the way to the rim. He's a good two point jump shooter. This is an outstanding finish. He had actually oversee Occam. That was one exception to that. But yeah, was relying a lot on his midi though, which you're gonna, you're gonna live with that. And then they were able to single cover him too. So it was one of the reasons it was so much one on one from Oklahoma City was because nice. Smith was able to just stay with Jalen Williams, Nemhard was just able to stay with Shea and they didn't have to bring over help defenders that much.
- [35:34]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I noticed that 13 assists feels criminally low. Only 3 for SGA. So is again, I'm just guessing, but Rick Carlisle, a master, might be saying, hey, we're going to give SGA whatever he wants. We're not going to let everybody else hit a billion threes. Is that. Do you think that might be the strategy?
- [35:53]
Alex
I think that's definitely part of it. The other thing with Oklahoma City was with them matching up small. Hartenstein only plays 17 minutes. A lot of them were with the second group. He's their best screener. He's the guy who can get Nem hard off of sga's body, who can get knee Smith off of J Dub. And, you know, were they too cute by half, not going with Hartenstein? I know they've been. They've been going away from those two big lineups, but I just wonder. Casey Wallace ended up playing, I think, 32 minutes to Hartenstein, 17. Wallace wasn't good at the offensive end either. And so I think if. When Mark Dingall rewatches this game, I think he's going to think I should have gotten Hart signed in there more and that if I was going to stay small. The other guy we didn't really see just for 90 seconds was Kenrich Williams, who played a ton when these teams played in March and Oklahoma City blew them out. So I could see, even if he doesn't go that much more to Hart side, I could see a lot more of Kenny Hussle and less of Wallace, I think.
- [36:55]
Colin Cowherd
All right, so you were in an NBA front office. I'm just curious if you're having a great postseason run. Your coach is pushing all the right buttons, and he comes to you before game one of the Finals and says, hey, guys, I'm going to go with the starting lineup that we haven't started in this postseason. Is there going to be pushback? Would you have said, wait, what are we doing here? Because I know it looked good for, you know, what they led for 46 minutes or what have you. It just felt like they were, we're going to adjust to the Pacers as opposed to make the Pacers adjust us.
- [37:25]
Alex
You know, I would rather have a coach do it too early than too late, though, where. Where the coach doesn't make the adjustment until the team is already down two zero and they have one foot in the grave, which I've seen so many times that way. So I. I would live with that. You know, should he have maybe tried it for a half and then, you know, gone to it coming out of halftime, which he's already done a couple times in this playoffs. He started this lineup in third quarters before, so I didn't have a big problem with that. And again, they dominated the first half, I just think they needed to get back to Hartenstein at some point, especially with the Chet having such a bad game.
- [38:02]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Any idea why Chet played so poorly? Is it just like, hey, you know, this is game one of the finals. He's a young guy, him and J Dub. I don't want to say the moment looked too big, but were they wide eyed or was it just the Pacers harassment on defense?
- [38:17]
Alex
I think we have to give Miles Turner some credit for the defense he played on Chet. If you look at some of the. Chet is really effective off the dribble, usually attacking bigs, and he wasn't able to get anything on Turner that way. So give Miles his flowers for that. The other thing, I think, again, because there was so much one on one, you know, Chad is a guy who's getting his baskets in the flow. There's a pass, is another pass, the ball kicks out to him or he's cutting to the rim, he flies in for a dunk. And those plays weren't there because it was just one on one and OKC shooting a jump shot. So I think schematically it kind of took him out of the game a little bit.
- [38:54]
Colin Cowherd
All right. Speaking of flowers, John, let's give some to Halliburton, who is having the most clutch postseason run we've ever seen in basketball. I mean, it's fair to say that he just is unstoppable when it matters most. This is a guy who was on the Olympic team but barely played. Kind of laughed about barely playing. Then he was voted most overrated in some goofy poll I think by the Athletic, and now he is. I mean, He's a top 10 player in the league. I don't, I don't know what's going on here.
- [39:24]
Alex
Yeah, I, you know, he was, he was dealing with that hamstring injury the whole second half of last year. I think it, it carried into his summer and then even into the beginning of this year when the pacers started 9 and 14. And somewhere around the middle of the year, he turned into the old Halley that he was in the first half of last season. And their offense got to another gear. And what I, what I love about Halliburton is he's such a killer. If you look like the Cleveland game, the New York game, he tried to do it. They were down two. He went for the three to get the win. They were down one. Last night he drove a little closer and got to the pull up two pointer for the win. Like he's playing to the Score in these situations, too, which I think is really impressive. That drive against Milwaukee was another one there. There you see the step back. You see, he didn't go into the pig because he knew they were down two. If he got the three. Three, he'd get the win. It's just been so impressive to see him do this, this, this whole off season, off season, postseason. Again, his historic.
- [40:28]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Now obviously you're an analytics guy. This is one of those things, like, I mean, a pull up 21 footer. I know that's probably a good shot for him, but not a great shot in the NBA currently. Just, is this sustainable at all, or. I mean, is this just a historic run? And hey, this is. Who was the guy in the bubble who was averaging like 50 points a game? I'm spacing on his name. TJ.
- [40:52]
Alex
TJ Warren.
- [40:53]
Colin Cowherd
TJ Warren. Thank you. He went off for, for the bubble. I was like, oh, they got to give this guy a max deal. Is this one of those historic runs that Hollibarn's on? Yeah.
- [41:03]
Alex
I mean, obviously he's, he's going to miss one of these at some point, Right? Like, nobody forever. But one of the things is, like, when you're down one, the extra point of the three doesn't matter anymore. So, yeah, it's okay to dribble in and take that 20 footer then. And, and I think he's, he's really smart about playing to the score that way.
- [41:22]
Colin Cowherd
All right, Macro, big picture. You know, Pacers and Thunder both built differently than most of the loaded teams in the league. A lot of guys, I mean, Nemart's making $2 million a year and he's playing phenomenal. Do you think we'll see that transition over to the offseason when it comes time to make a play for Giannis, make a play for Kevin Durant? Nobody's given five first round picks for KD the way Mikhail Bridges got five. You know.
- [41:48]
Alex
I, I think Giannis could easily get something in, in that range. Yeah. If he becomes available, you're. You're gonna. Yeah, you're gonna see some crazy. I mean, KD is in his late 30s. He has one year left on his deal. I presume he'll get extended as part of any trade, but yeah, the market for him isn't, isn't going to be like that.
- [42:05]
Colin Cowherd
What do you think that we could see Giannis, I mean, somebody float? Henry Abbott floated to me like, listen, Giannis makes the most sense in OKC because they have the assets and the young guys and they can afford him. I don't, I mean, we think Oklahoma City is probably going to still win the finals, but do they do something dramatic if this falls apart?
- [42:24]
Alex
I don't think that's Sam Presti's DNA at all. I think he, he'd run it back with these guys, make one or two deals around the edges. But this is Shea's team. I, I think that's too, almost too much like you're building a team around Giannis instead of Shay at that point. So I don't see that happening. I think the end game for Giannis is to, if he's going to leave Milwaukee, it's probably San Antonio or Houston. I mean, they have the assets to, to do the deal. Their teams are good enough now where he's joining, he'd be joining a really good team. Those are the two that make the most sense to me.
- [43:02]
Colin Cowherd
And what about Kevin Durant? Is there a team out there that you. I mean, it feels like Kevin Durant's agent is just trying to get him out of there as soon as possible. He's floating the spurs and then we're hearing, oh, the Knicks wanted him at the deadline. Meanwhile, four months ago, nobody had that. It just feels a little suspicious, this KV stuff.
- [43:20]
Alex
I could see a fit there with Minnesota. It's a little tough with the tax aprons, but it can be done, especially if it's ends up being a three team deal. And Minnesota did try, did at least make some effort to get him at the trade deadline. I do think they need one more elite offensive player to go with Ant. It's one of the things they miss not having towns this year and, and they're definitely like a win now team too. So, yeah, I think Minnesota is the place for him.
- [43:49]
Colin Cowherd
All right, John Hollinger, the athletic, great stuff, analytics. Maven, you rewatched the game this morning. That's dedication, man. I probably should do that after the show or I'll sleep one of those two. Thanks a lot, John.
- [44:00]
Alex
Thanks for having me on the show.
- [44:01]
Colin Cowherd
All right, good stuff. Interesting takes from Mr. Hollinger. I'm trying to crystallize some of it in my head, Alex, and think like, huh, why was Chad Holmgren so, so bad last night? Like, I, I mean, if he's your third best player and you're kind of benching him, that's weird. All right, coming up next, it's risky, you know, people look at me like I got two heads. Yeah, Halliburton over sga. Why not? We'll do that next year probably on the hurt.
- [44:32]
Jason McIntyre
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- [46:52]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast.