Best of The Herd

Summary

Summary of "Best of The Herd" Episode – February 3, 2025

The Herd with Colin Cowherd's "Best of The Herd" episode, released on February 3, 2025, features host Jason McIntyre stepping in for Colin Cowherd due to Colin's illness. The episode delves into significant sports topics, primarily focusing on a seismic NBA trade involving Luka Doncic and its far-reaching implications. The discussion is enriched with expert analysis, notable quotes, and insights from guest Rachel Nichols, a seasoned NBA insider.

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1. Luka Doncic Traded to the Los Angeles Lakers

Overview: The episode kicks off with a deep dive into the blockbuster trade where Luka Doncic, the Dallas Mavericks' star player, was traded to the Los Angeles Lakers. Jason McIntyre provides a comprehensive analysis of the trade, highlighting the Mavericks' underlying fears and the strategic moves by the Lakers.

Key Points:

• Mavericks' Decision to Trade Luka:

  • Conditioning Concerns: The Dallas Mavericks reportedly traded Luka due to concerns over his conditioning. Reports indicated that Luka was playing at nearly 260 pounds, raising fears about his long-term fitness and availability.

    • Quote: “They were afraid because of Luka's conditioning. The guy's always out of shape.” — Jason McIntyre at [04:15]

  • Luka’s On-Court Antics: A notable moment cited was Luka celebrating a victory with an adult beverage, which reportedly signaled to the Mavericks that his off-court behavior might jeopardize his performance.

    • Quote: “Luka just brushed it off, but you could tell from that video, it felt like the beginning of the end.” — Jason McIntyre at [05:10]

• Trade Details and Reactions:

  • The trade received mixed grades from analysts, with Lakers getting an “A” for acquiring a generational talent and Mavericks receiving an “F” for parting with Luka.
  • Despite the negative grading, McIntyre acknowledges the Mavericks' strategic relations, particularly Anthony Davis's deep ties with the Mavericks’ GM, Nico Harrison.
    • Quote: “Anthony Davis knows Nico Harrison well; they've known each other for over a decade.” — Jason McIntyre at [07:30]

• Impact on the Lakers:

  • The acquisition of Luka Doncic positions the Lakers as a formidable team, bridging the generational gap with LeBron James.

    • Quote: “LeBron and Luka, essentially a passing of the torch.” — Jason McIntyre at [12:45]

  • Concerns remain about Luka's health and the Lakers' plans post-LeBron, given Anthony Davis's physical condition.

    • Quote: “Anthony Davis has a lot of wear and tear on that body. I don't know how AD is going to fare health-wise into his 30s.” — Jason McIntyre at [14:20]

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2. Discussion on Luka Doncic’s Future and Performance

Insights:

• Potential for Growth: McIntyre expresses optimism that the Lakers' environment could be the catalyst Luka needs to enhance his performance and address past conditioning issues.

  • Quote: “If someone in his family or if Luka himself decides this is it, then we could see a very determined, very different player for the Lakers.” — Matt Hasselbeck at [28:27]

• Comparisons to Other Athletes: Luka is compared to other sports stars like Patrick Mahomes and Nikola Jokic, emphasizing his unique talents and potential longevity in the league.

  • Quote: “Luka is such a unique talent... Luka Doncic is on track to be a top 10 player all time, period.” — Jason McIntyre at [24:30]

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3. Rachel Nichols Joins the Discussion

Key Contributions:

• Trade Shock Across the League: Rachel Nichols elaborates on the unprecedented nature of trading a mid-career star like Luka and the silence from other teams that could have pursued him.

  • Quote: “This is not a dumb team that has a history of terrible transactions...” — Matt Hasselbeck referencing Mavericks at [23:16]

• Implications for Mavericks’ Fanbase: Nichols notes the emotional toll on Mavericks fans, highlighting protests and memorabilia destruction as signs of deep discontent.

  • Quote: “There was a casket out there at the arena yesterday protesting.” — Matt Hasselbeck at [39:19]

• Lakers’ Strategic Positioning: She discusses the Lakers' potential future moves, including acquiring defensive centers to balance their roster.

  • Quote: “The downside of this trade that the Lakers just made is that they might score 200 points a game, but the other team might score 230.” — Matt Hasselbeck at [33:09]

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4. Other NBA Trades and Player Movements

Highlights:

• De'Aaron Fox to the San Antonio Spurs:

  • The trade involves De'Aaron Fox moving from the Sacramento Kings to the Spurs, potentially pairing him with emerging talents like Victor Wembanyama.
    • Quote: “Victor Wembanyama will be a top 10 player of all time.” — Matt Hasselbeck at [35:56]

• Victor Wembanyama’s Potential:

  • Nichols praises Wembanyama's extraordinary talent, predicting a stellar career ahead.
    • Quote: “He could get there [top 10 all-time]... he's got his people around the team.” — Matt Hasselbeck at [34:48]

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5. Super Bowl Week NFL Analysis

Overview: Transitioning to NFL topics, the discussion covers the impending Super Bowl, team strategies, and standout players like Saquon Barkley and Patrick Mahomes.

Key Points:

• Washington Commanders and Philadelphia Eagles Showdown:

  • Analysis of the Commanders' postseason run and the Eagles' strategies against the Chiefs.
    • Quote: “Everything that points to the Eagles. Great defense, you run the ball... it would be really, really hard to go against the Chiefs.” — Rachel Nichols at [56:42]

• Chiefs’ Pursuit of a Three-Peat:

  • Conversation about Chiefs’ mindset aiming for a third consecutive Super Bowl win and the potential dangers of setting such high expectations.
    • Quote: “After they won last year, they were already talking about three-peat... that's incredibly dangerous.” — Matt Hasselbeck at [36:25]

• Miles Garrett Trade Speculation:

  • Discussion on potential destinations for Miles Garrett, who demanded a trade from the Browns.
    • Quote: “Bring him in. Absolutely.” — Matt Hasselbeck at [38:20]

• Coaching Strategies and Player Performance:

  • Insights into coaching decisions, player conditioning, and game-day strategies from both the Eagles and Chiefs.
    • Quote: “Pete Carroll wants to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer at certain positions. Quarterback has to be one.” — Rachel Nichols at [65:41]

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6. Final Thoughts and Predictions

Conclusions:

• Lakers’ Future with Luka:

  • Optimism remains high for the Lakers with Luka Doncic, despite uncertainties surrounding his health and the team's long-term strategy post-LeBron.
    • Quote: “The Lakers are going to firmly be in the mix, assuming health.” — Jason McIntyre at [16:50]

• Super Bowl Predictions:

  • Rachel Nichols expresses a slight preference for the Chiefs but acknowledges the Eagles' strengths, making the outcome highly anticipated.
    • Quote: “I would say, like, everything that matters points to the Eagles. ... it's the Chiefs that is going to be a tough one to go against.” — Rachel Nichols at [68:20]

• Future Episode Highlights:

  • Teasers for upcoming segments include further analysis of Luka's impact, Super Bowl preparations, and additional NFL and NBA trade discussions.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre [05:10]: “Luka just brushed it off, but you could tell from that video, it felt like the beginning of the end.”

• Matt Hasselbeck [28:27]: “If someone in his family or if Luka himself decides this is it, then we could see a very determined, very different player for the Lakers.”

• Rachel Nichols [56:42]: “Everything that points to the Eagles. Great defense, you run the ball... it would be really, really hard to go against the Chiefs.”

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Conclusion:

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers an in-depth exploration of one of the NBA's most shocking trades, the Luka Doncic move to the Lakers, and its ripple effects across the league. Coupled with insightful NFL analysis leading into the Super Bowl, listeners are provided with a thorough examination of current sports dynamics, enriched by expert opinions and real-time reactions. The discussions highlight the complexities of team management, player performance, and the ever-evolving nature of professional sports.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

This is the best of the Herd.

[Colin Cowherd]

With Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, we're back here on the Herd. They had to go to the bullpen. Colin not feeling great. Big weekend in Chicago. He's back, and he's just chilling out right now in his dressing room. Hopefully back tomorrow. So I'll step in now and take the baton regarding this. Holy cow. Lakers trade. Yes, we will get to Miles Garrett, who about 30 minutes ago demanded a trade out of Cleveland. We'll get to that. A lot of stuff happening super bowl week here. Very excited. I had a. I had a hot take that I'll fire off here regarding the Mavs and the Lakers trade that shook the NBA world over the weekend. And it was operating out of a place of fear, is the worst place to operate out of. And I feel like that's what the Dallas Mavericks did here. Okay. They were afraid of giving Luca the Supermax contract. $345 million. They were afraid because of why? Because his conditioning. The guy's always out of shape. Luca shows up. There were reports he was playing close to 260 pounds this season before the cap strain. Fear. They were worried that Luka would never really get his act together off the court. You guys have seen the video from the NBA playoffs this year or this past season where. Where Luca was celebrating with a beer, an adult beverage, after the game, celebrating a big victory. And Michael Finley, the assistant gm, just rolled up and casually. Here it is on the screen. And not this one. Casually just grabbed the beer from Luca. Luka, that's his father, I believe, in the black shirt. And look at Luca's face. He's just like, wait, wait, what? But they're. They're in a good mood. They're excited. Hey, we just won. Luca just brushed it off. But you could tell from that video, it felt like the beginning of the end. I believe that was May 31st of last year. And again, the Mavericks were just simply worried. They were concerned that Luka Doncic would never be that physical specimen, the guy who was working out 247 like LeBron. You guys have seen the videos on his Instagram. And they decided, let's just get him out of town. Now, obviously, there's a mini revolt among Mavs fans right now, but Dallas, I'm not going to totally poo poo the trade from their end. Yes, I saw Multiple people grading the trade. Lakers got an A. Obviously you got a generational talent, you get an A. A lot of people gave the Mavs an F. But there is some excitement. Anthony Davis has a deep relationship not only with Jason Kidd, the head coach. Jason Kidd, of course, was with the Lakers during the bubble championship run. But Anthony Davis knows Nico HARRISON well, the GM of the MAVs. Nico used to be at Nike, and Anthony Davis was one of his signature clients, obviously after Kobe Bryant. But Nico signed AD before the draft, and they've known each other for over a decade. So there is that commonality between AD and the MAVs. And let's not forget Michael Finley, the assistant gm, the guy who took the beer from Luca. He's from Illinois. He was like a high school legend. Ended up playing Michael Jordan back in the day, one on one, Anthony Davis from Chicago. So they really felt comfortable with Anthony Davis. And I think it kind of makes sense from the Mavs on what they got in return. What I didn't like, and I'm sure you guys saw this over the weekend, was how could the Mavericks not open this up to the entire league? Why didn't they canvas the NBA and say, hey, maybe we could get eight first round picks? I mean, Mikhail Bridges. Mikhail Bridges to the knicks was like five first round picks. I mean, Luca's got to be worth 10, right? 12 first round picks. But it. It doesn't work like that. Guys. Remember, they had to ship Luca somewhere where they know he would sign. Nobody's going to try to rent Luca for a year and then just have him walk and give up the whole franchise. So I actually narrowed it down and I came up with only a handful of teams, three actually, that could have. Could have gone after Luca. Should there have been a bidding war? And they're obvious, right? The Celtics in Boston, we know Boston has definitely the ammo. Luka would fit there. A winning franchise, one of the winningest in professional sports in America. They make sense. The New York Knicks make sense. The AKA Villanova Knicks, who doesn't love to play for New York. Luka would have clearly gone there and signed long term. And the other one, kind of a sleeping giant, the Miami Heat. Hashtag, Heat culture. And yes, you can insert your jokes about fat Luca not fitting into Heat culture, but trust me, guys, Pat Riley runs an amazing ship there in Miami, and I believe that the Heat could have been in play should Dallas have opened it up. But you guys know how this stuff works. Come on. There's no. The second that the league got wind of Luka Doncic being on the market, it would have been a total disaster. The price would have gone down. Luka would have checked out. Kyrie Irving and company. What are we doing? We're trading Luka. They would have been destroyed in the press. So technically I think Dallas handled this well. Now I still think obviously the Lakers won the trade. And if you're a Mavericks fan and you would listen to Nico Harrison and Jason Kidd at the, at the podium, you're going to be a little sick to your stomach. Here's, here's Nico Harrison talking to the media yesterday.

[Rachel Nichols]

As we turn the page, I think it's important to know that J. Kidd and I, we've had a vision in the culture that we want to create since we've been here. And the players that we're bringing in, we believe exemplify that. And you know, we think defense wins championships and we're bringing in one of the best two way players in the league.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, no doubt about that. Anthony Davis. I mean, that's one of Colin's favorite guys. I mean, Colin has him like as an MVP candidate, top 10 player in the league. I have AD more in the top 15 range. But he's been incredible this weekend. Now we need to move to the Lakers portion of the program. And you guys know I coach my kids in sports, so we had back to back games yesterday. My son played and then my daughter. And yes, I am that guy who wore a Lakers T shirt with a Lakers sweatshirt over it. So when I take off the sweatshirt because I'm sweating on the sidelines like a maniac coaching middle school kids, I've still got Lakers gear on. And folks, I can promise you, if 30 people came up to me at the game. J. Mac, what do you think about the Lakers? We got Luka, 30 for 30. Everybody was stoked. Not one person was questioning this trade. This is rare that everybody loves getting Luka Doncic. And folks, I know Rob Pelinka has been one of the most maligned front office guys in the league. Los Angeles, for whatever reason, people cannot stand Rob Pelinka. Guys, I'm telling you, all he's done is push the right buttons. He has now set the Lakers up for success for at least, at least the next seven years. Maybe you want to extend it to 10. Fine. But they had no plan post LeBron. And I think Colin and I had talked about this on the show. Hey man, can you build around Anthony Davis at 32, 33 when LeBron leaves? I just don't know that that Makes sense. And you know, Anthony Davis has a lot of wear and tear on that, on that body. We know Charles Barkley famously has called him street clothes because he's always injured. I don't know how AD is going to fare health wise into his 30s. So that's why Dallas win now kind of works. We'll get back to Dallas later in the show. They're really built to hang with the best teams in the west. So why are Lakers fans excited? Well, I don't know. They just got a guy who was first team all NBA the last five years. I mean, he came into the season as the MVP favorite for my money. And you guys, you can look it up on my Instagram. June, last July, July 4th, I said, Luca, Luka Doncic, best player in the league. I've held this for like three years. I know Jokic is winning MVPs and everybody loves Joel Embiid. Just give me Luca. He's unbelievable. And for the Jabronis out there who want to say Luca doesn't play. And I get fired up about this because Luca's dad gave an interview over the weekend and it was translated from into English and you could see what he was saying. And he's kind of ticked off at this narrative that Luca's lazy. Folks, Luka Doncic played 70 games last season, averaged 35 minutes a night. Okay? Then he went to the playoffs and carried. Carried Dallas on his back. I know they had Kyrie and Derek Lively and P.J. washington. It was the Luca show. In 22 playoff games, he averaged 40 minutes a night. Points, rebounds, assists. He's doing everything. So he played 92 games last year. And we're con. We're concerned about Luka being fat and out of shape. This is total nonsense. Yes, occasionally some of the European players. Jokic is in the same boat. They got that dad bod. Okay, I know Luke is 25 and has a dad bod. Maybe not great, but there's a quarterback here in the super bowl who's gonna be playing this week who has embraced the dad bod. His name is Patrick Mahomes. I don't know if you're familiar with his work, but he also is not a chiseled LeBron with six pack abs. That's just. That's not how Mahomes rolls. That's not Jokic and that's not Luka. They're three of the best players in their respective sports. Luka's gonna be fine when you can build around Luka for the next seven to ten years. In LA and not totally have to worry about LeBron. You've got a secession plan and everybody knows, like, listen, LeBron, maybe he's got this year left. Maybe he's got two. I mean, I, you could stretch it to two if you want. And yes, I saw LeBron put up a triple double in MSG over the weekend. No AD beat the Knicks, who are one of the best teams in the league, one of the top five title contenders. LeBron put on a show like he could still do it. And him joining forces with Luka Doncic for a season. Folks, I got a couple buddies out here with season tickets to the Lakers. Trust me, I've already hit them up. Hey, let me know, let me know when you need somebody to wingman into a game because this is going to be one of the best shows in the league. LeBron and Luca, essentially a passing of the torch. And I do want to remind some people, okay, it was just last year that the Golden State warriors made calls to the Lakers about LeBron. They wanted to get in the LeBron business. Okay, LeBron is not done. He's still got gas left in the tank. I don't know how this Luca lebron thing is going to necessarily work initially, but Luca made it work with Kyrie Irving. There were a lot of questions. Hey, are Luca and Kyrie gonna work? They figured it out. They got to the finals. I know they got smoked by Boston. Boston was a way better team. So now you join Luca and LeBron and they're like, oh, oh, the potentials off the charts. And yes, I can hear you guys shouting, we don't have any defense. Luca don't play defense. Austin Reeves is a turnstile. LeBron can't guard anybody. Let's take a deep breath. The Lakers, by winning this trade, did not give up both of their future first round picks. So they still have ammo if they want to go out and chase a Miles Turner in Indiana, if they want to get Clint Capella, Nick Claxton. There are bigs around the league that could come in. I, I, I'm, I'm not saying the Lakers are winning the chip this year, but how can you not be beyond excited for the Lakers future with Luka Doncic? Okay, I know everybody. Well, not everybody. Some people on social media seem to think the league is rigged, which I guess is the buzzword in 2025, right? Kansas City Chiefs. Obviously nobody thinks the NFL's rigged or the NBA, but it's a funny topic, right? Boy Lakers boy Magic Johnson going back. James Worthy how are they always getting great players? Shaq decided to pick the Lakers. Kobe Bryant famously forced his way to the Lakers by telling Charlotte, I will rather go to Italy and play. And they had to move on and say, fine, fine, we'll, we'll, we'll trade Kobe. And then they got Pau Gasol in one of the great heists in NBA trade history. And now look at this, look at this. The Lakers players acquired via trade. Wilt Chamberlain. Decent. Okay? He's a top 10 player all time. Jabbar. He's a top five player all time. Kobe Bryant, certainly a top 10 player all time, pal. Gasol. He's in the Hall. He's going to be in the hall of Fame. Or is AD who has a title and is on track to be a Hall of Fame player. And now Luka Dontich. Like, guys, that list is unbelievable. At some point we gotta say, you know, maybe the Lakers just know what the hell they're doing in chasing stars, okay? And you look around the west and you're like, okay, I got Luca and LeBron and I'm supposed to be afraid of OKC. I got Luca and LeBron and I'm worried about Jokic and the Nuggets. Like, I, I think the Lakers are going to firmly be in the mix, assuming health. You know, everybody's, everybody's fine. And I do wonder, you know, I mentioned Austin Reeves. He's my guy. Regular listeners and viewers of this show. No, I'm an Austin Reeves defender. Not sure how he really fits now with the Lakers. So I, I put a pause on my. By the Austin Reeves jersey. Have not done that as yet. But Luka Doncha jersey will be next. I, I think it makes sense if you're the Lakers, you say, can we package Rui? We package Austin Reeves and that number one pick go big game hunting now. We've got a rim protector. I know people don't like it when the Lakers are on top, but this Luka Donches thing, I was grinning ear to ear. So Saturday night I'm, you know, wife was out of town with her friend, and I'm, I'm in town with the kids. We're watching this movie air Bud. I don't know if you guys have seen this from like the late 90s. I don't even think our producers were born when this movie came out. And, you know, they need to go to the bathroom. So I just look at my phone and I've got this. Just a flurry of text messages coming in. And the first one is from this guy who played high levels of basketball. He's now a referee. J. Mac, I got to ask. This seems too good to be true. How did we get Luka? And my first reaction is, wait, Luca, again, I'm watching air, bud. I tell the kids, hold on, hold on. We got, we got to pause the movie. And I dive in. And for the next hour, I'm just riveted by this just unbelievable turn of events. It really felt like a dream, guys. It genuinely felt, wait, did this really happen? Like, who trades one of the best players in the NBA in his prime? It's just an unfathomable turn of events. And we're going to have Rachel Nichols, longtime NBA insider. She's going to come on the set here next and talk about the Lakers acquiring Luka. The dynasty continues in la. Lakers exceptionalism, it's a thing, people. So we're back after this with Rachel Nichols talking Lakers.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of.

[Jason McIntyre]

The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Steve Covino]

Hey, it's Steve Covino, and I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And, of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Back here on the herd, Jason McIntyre. Step it in for Colin Cowherd. Joining us now on the set, the great Rachel Nichols, Fox Sports NBA insider covered the NBA forever. Rachel, how you doing?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I am better than Colin apparently, who's sick. So you and I are healthy. And that's, that's a good day for us now.

[Jason McIntyre]

And listen, great time, great day to be on, on the show talking NBA. I mean, Rachel, you know, you talk to people around the league.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

Like what has been the reaction around the league since, you know, the earth shook Saturday night when the Lakers got Luka.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

It's really almost impossible to quantify the amount of shock that we have felt from every corner of the NBA. I have been covering this league for the better part of three decades. You have GMs, executives who have been around the league for 40, 50 years and have never seen anything like this. And part of it is the surprise of trading away a 25 year old who has made the five last all NBA teams, who's a perennial MVP candidate who took his team to the NBA Finals seven months ago. But in addition to that, even more so than the fact that they wanted to trade him away, it was how they did it. And I think part of that is the nitty gritty of NBA front offices. They're always interested in that aspect, maybe more than the fans. But how they did it has been a huge shock because it seems that the Mavericks, in trading away this incredible asset, left a bunch of other things on the table that they could have gotten for him. And really, no one understands that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, it seems like the tipping point may have been, hey, we just got to the Finals. Luca comes back kind of out of shape. Then he has the calf injury again. There were reports he was close to 260. That's like Myles Garrett size. I don't know. Do you get a sense that's kind of what precipitated this deal?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I mean, I think it's a lot of things over a lot of years. And I will say we don't know everything. And I have to assume Nico Harrison is a smart guy. Jason Kidd is a smart guy. I know Jason wasn't directly involved in this trade, but in general, this is not a dumb team that has a history of terrible transactions. Right. So, you know, they obviously traded away a few guys under the Mark Cuban era you'd like to have back. But my point is that there must have been something that they knew that we don't know. What we do know is that, yes, there have been conditioning issues with him over the years. If he really is in the two 60s, that's nearly 20 pounds overweight. And we know that leads to soft tissue injuries, which Luca has had several of. In fact, he is out with one right now. So the idea that he might be perennially unavailable, whether he was sort of flouting team rules, whether there was a bit of sort of, hey, we've asked you to do this and you've refused time and time and time again. Whether it's the arguing with officials that they've asked him to tone down, and that has actually cost his team specific losses that you can point to. And I have to assume there's more to the story. Right? So if you add all of that stuff up over all the years, I personally would still not trade Luka Daci. I don't know what the unknown thing is that we don't know. So maybe that would tip me over as well. But in general, the idea of trading a 25 year old who really isn't even in his prime yet. You are a betting against the next 10 years of Luca's future. That is a heavy bet to make with a guy who has frankly been a prodigy since he was 11 years old and who you were incredibly lucky by like six strokes of luck to get him in the first place. You had had other free front agents, free front offices in front of you, you know, make decisions that they probably shouldn't have made just for you to get him. And the idea that they did and then decided to trade him away is shocking.

[Jason McIntyre]

So you've been doing media longer than I have, but there have been people who've doubted us. I'm sure everybody in any job's been doubted. And you know, you look at Luca, essentially the Atlanta Hawks were like, eh, we like him, but we'd rather have Trey Young Sacramento drafted. I believe it was Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic. And now Dallas had him, he took him to the finals and they trade him. So that's three teams that have quit on him or passed on him. And he's only 25 and Dallas cost him over $100 million with the Supermax. Do you think all of this adds up to Luca maybe being more locked in and being like, hey, nobody believes in me. I'm going to get my. I'm going to get my butt in shape and take over. This could be a springboard to Luca for even more greatness, if that's possible.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Look, if he does need a wake up call, this was it, right? If it really is a matter of, hey, he just needs to change his attitude, change his approach. If this doesn't wake you up, I don't know what will. And again, the Mavericks are betting against his next 10 years. The Lakers are obviously betting on his next 10 years, that he will be that superstar that they need to follow LeBron James, that he will get his act together in the ways that the Mavericks felt that he couldn't. And I have to think it's possible. Luka also not a dumb guy. And in one fact, one of the guys he really is close with and looks up to in the league is Nikola Jokic, who went through a little bit of the same thing. Obviously not with quite the attitude issues that were described around Luka. Again, I don't know, I'm not in the room, but Jokic certainly had a very laissez faire approach to his diet, right? And sort of the team would ask him to get in shape and he really was Kept drinking Cokes every day and all the other stuff and wouldn't really work out. And he just decided kind of going into the 2019, 2020 season that things had to change. And he had a severe alteration to his diet, to his workout routine, to what he did during this season. And it obviously paid off immediately. And it led him to multiple MVPs. It led him to become a champion. So if that happens to Luka, if Jokic pulls him aside and said, all right, this is it, now it's time. If someone in his family or if Luka himself decides this is it, then we could see a very determined, very different player for the Lakers that the Mavericks and their fans are going to have to watch for the next 10 years.

[Jason McIntyre]

Speaking of Mavs fans. So I've sure you've seen the memes, kids crying with like six Luca jerseys next to them in their bedroom. It's understandable. However, there is a positive here. Anthony Davis is a plug and play guy now. You've got a lot of depth. He gets to play four right lively when he comes back. And then Gafford, the bigs, they're kind of built to hang with Denver. I think Max Christie, I know people are like, forgetting him. He's a good defender. I think The Lakers are 15 and 8 since he became a starter. Like, there's a world where they can hang with SGA and okc. Like, sorry, sga. Yeah, and okc. Do you think that Dallas, there's a world where they maybe get back to the finals this year?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I mean, sure. I mean, no one expected them to get to the finals last year and they did it. So. So, yes, of course that kind of scenario is possible. And I don't think there's any question or not much of a question that they are a better team this year, this season with Anthony Davis in there than with Luka, who's had a ton of injury issues this year. However, that's this season, which lasts what, four more.

[Jason McIntyre]

Four more months?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I mean, come on. And by the way, they have other injuries on their team that they still have to deal with. Dallas does. But you cannot underscore, underplay anything what the next 10 years that you just traded away was. And look, Luca was due for a supermax contract. He could have signed it as early as this summer. That also precipitated some of this discussion. Nico Harrison said as much during his press conference yesterday that, look, it's clear that they were nervous about signing him for $350 million and then getting into a situation with injuries or other things where they're in the Philadelphia Joel Embiid situation. Right. Or, oh, gosh, what are the Clippers doing with Kawhi Leonard now? He's on a better contract than he was before. But still, still like you're paying for a guy who generally hasn't been there for big stretches of the season. The fear of that was clearly a huge motivator. I would argue you could have still signed him to that supermax and then traded him a year later. There's a mandatory waiting period. But you could have traded him after that and you still would have gotten a ton of takers around the league. And by the way, if you had done that then you really could have opened up the bidding. Now the argument is they did a one team trade with the Lakers because they didn't want to sort of make a mess of the season stuff. You were talking about in the last segment that, you know, they wanted to not have that discussion of where will he go? And therefore being railroaded into only one or two choices. To me, that doesn't really hold because the Lakers traded for him sight unseen. The Lakers traded for him without knowing what kind of contract he would sign a year and a half from now. And by the way, I think if you polled most teams in the league, not all, but most, they would take a guaranteed year and a half of Luka Doncic, which is still left on his current contract right now, and say we can convince him that this is the place he wants to stay. Give us a year and a half. The Mavericks did it with Kyrie Irving when they traded for him and only had three months to convince him. They traded for him near the trade deadline and then he was going to be a free agent that summer and they gave a bunch of stuff away for him and their goal was, hey, we think when he's here, he's got a great relationship with Jason Kidd. We can convince him to stay. And by the way, they did.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

So the idea that Luca could have made a list and that, you know, they wouldn't have been able to have any takers if it wasn't his, quote, preferred destination. I personally don't really buy that. I think Luka Doncic is such a unique talent and the idea that you would get him for a year and a half, look what Toronto did with Kawhi Leonard, right? They were like, great, we've got him for a year. We hope we can convince him to stay, but even if we can't, it's worth it. And guess what? They couldn't convince him and it was still worth it. So. So I don't really buy the whole, hey, if you had opened it up and his preferred destinations and that would have put us in a worse position. I can't imagine it would put you in a worse position than negotiating with only one team and having that team not even give up its full arsenal. And again, this goes back to your first question of, hey, what are people around the league saying? It's the methodology as much as the actual trade itself. The Lakers had two first rounders. They could have given up and they didn't. They only gave up one. And I see from the Lakers side why they're A thrilled about that and B, saying hey, we don't know, he could go anywhere in a year and a half. I mean, I understand their argument to Dallas. If I'm Dallas, I am saying that's great. We need both your picks to make this work. Otherwise I'm opening it up to the rest of the league. And I guarantee you, especially in a franchise where ownership really values having a star, that Lakers would have said, all right, all right, fine, here's the second pick.

[Jason McIntyre]

So do you think the Lakers use that other pick and maybe Austin Reaves, maybe Rui to go get a center? I know Maxi can kind of play center Marke Morris, but they're small ball guys. They're not protecting the room. They're not stopping Jokic. No, your thoughts? Do the Lakers make another move?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I mean, they're in a great position to make another move now, right? Because before it was, I don't know. Do you get rid of Austin Reaves because of what he means the team right now. Well, you don't need that anymore because you have Luka Doncic. And so I think that they are much more flexible. They still have a first round pick to give out. There is no question. A, they need a center presence and they need a defensive center. Because the downside of this trade that the Lakers just made is that they might score 200 points a game, but the other team might score 230. So you know, they have got to get a strong defensive presence in the middle and I expect them to go out and do that because they have assets now that they didn't even have before this because of now they have more flexibility with their roster and they still have the first round pick that should be in Dallas.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I'll get to the super bowl in a sec. But one other trade that went down, we haven't even touched on it. De'Aaron Fox, in a bizarre trade goes from the Sacramento Kings to now the spurs playing with Wembanyama. They didn't give up Castle or Vassal like spurs look kind of dangerous. They're on the outside looking in now. Zach Levine, I'm as big Zach Levine guy. He goes to the Kings. You look at the spurs once they make a move and they will. Is this a team that could upset a Houston or a Memphis in the first round? I, I'm excited for Wembanyama.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think and have been saying since before he was drafted, mark my words, people, Victor Wembanyama will be a top 10 player of all time. All time, period.

[Jason McIntyre]

He could be a top 10 player. I'll be all time.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I can, I can say that with much less certainty. I would put Victor Webanyama ahead of any one other young player in the NBA in terms of my prediction of that. In fact, I put him ahead of, I don't know. I mean, LeBron James obviously is ahead of that.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

But there's very few guys I would put ahead of him in my all time prediction because I mean, look, he could get injured and obviously all bets are off. But the way his motor is, his talent, his alien form, quote unquote that we've never seen before in this league, his drive and the fact that he's in an organization that as you just pointed out, makes super smart moves, has a great coaching tree. Whatever happens with Gregg Popovich going forward, he will clearly be around the team and therefore his people will be around the team. I mean, he is in the driver's seat of this entire next generation of the NBA. And Darren Fox, as far as I'm concerned, won the lottery in terms of getting to be the point guard who has the first major audition of, hey, I could be this guy's partner for the next five to seven to 10 years. And the idea that you could get partnered as a point guard with Victor and you're basically saying, yes, sign me up for those championship rings. It's a great deal for Fox. It's why he targeted the spurs in this trade, saying that he didn't want to resign with Sacramento. And yeah, San Antonio made a great deal as they do and as we would have hoped the Mavericks would have done with the asset that they had.

[Jason McIntyre]

Very good. I would ask about Zach Levine, but the producers will yell, we don't do kings on the show. You know that really weird. Not you, Ryan, but let's go to the NFL. So I grew up in the D.C. area and my parents would get the Washington Post and I would get it every morning. Read sports section. Rachel was one of the prominent writers. Will Boncourt. I love. I love the Washington Post. And you obviously have covered D.C. sports for a while. The Commanders just made an incredible run in the postseason. Cowherd did make that call. I got to give him credit.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Look at my face.

[Jason McIntyre]

I know you're very excited, but I have to ask, the way it ended was rough. Eagles look good. Do the Eagles have a chance to, you know, thwart the three peat here that the Chiefs are going for?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I didn't just work in Washington, D.C. i grew up in that area. So I am really genetically engineered to never say anything nice about the Philadelphia Eagles or anyone else in the NFC East. So as far as I'm concerned, chief, chief, chief, chief, Chiefs. Right. And look, I didn't like. The one thing I didn't like about the way the Chiefs have approached this season is right on the podium. After they won number two last year, they were already talking about three peating in number three. And I always think that's incredibly dangerous. It's not how you should be focusing on, you know, Bill Belichick. One game at a time, one day at a time. That sort of thing is how you stack up multiple championships. That being said, even though they've had a ton of close calls this season, they keep winning. And I am just not betting against Patrick Mahomes. I'm not doing it. And I'm especially not doing it against an NFC east team, thank you very much.

[Jason McIntyre]

And I meant I wanted to start with Washington because we haven't got to the Miles Garrett stuff. It's such a busy morning, but I made a list before the show of teams that make sense for Myles Garrett, who demanded a trade from the Browns. And at the top of my list is Washington. I mean, you got the quarterback on the rookie deal. You can spend the defense. What'd they give up? 55 to the Eagles. Miles Garrett is an exceptional player. I mean, Washington is drafting late first round. I believe it's 29.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, are you willing to part with the pick and whatever? Within reason.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, Miles Garrett would make a ton of sense in D.C. i'm always.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

A big believer as a sports analysis, sports analyst and sort of just as a fan frankly, too, is that the known quantity is better than the pick. I know a lot of GMs always love the pick. Give me the pick. The pick is full of possibilities. Guess what? You are betting if you prioritize the pick that that pick is going to be better than Miles. Guess what? I'm not willing to take that chance. I just want Miles.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Bring him in. Absolutely.

[Jason McIntyre]

And the other team I would have is a team out here that you know well. The Rams.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yes.

[Jason McIntyre]

Who love to swing for the fences. The GM in the front office. Very savvy. Do they. Do you. Can you see them making a move? One last push. Sounds like Stafford's in. Based on the late reports last week, do you think any chance the Rams get involved with a Miles Garrett who you know is a transformational defensive player?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Yeah, I absolutely do. First of all, they have a very savvy front office.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

And they are more in the win now mode with Stafford than they would be if they had a younger quarterback who was, you know, just starting out. Obviously, Jaden Daniels is a younger quarterback, but that situation is a little bit unique and different. I absolutely think it would be smart for the Rams to get involved. This is a proven guy.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

And again, that is hard to come by in any of these leaks.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. Rachel Nichols. She wore red. Is it red for Washington or Kansas City?

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I'll leave that to you to decide.

[Jason McIntyre]

I like it. Hey, thanks for rescuing me here in the final hour. You know, the first hour felt like a final hour.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

Can I say one more thing about the Mavericks and their fans? I think that's the other underrated part of all of this is that you mentioned the mouse fans and the crying. They actually had a casket out there at the arena yesterday protesting. And there were profanity written on the sidewalk in front of the Dirk statue. These people thought they were getting a Luca statue next to the Dirk statue. There's an expression, as I'm sure you know, Mavs fans for life. Mffl. That's the sign off. That's the tag that they put at the end of every social media post. This really shook the for life part of a lot of Dallas fans. And I do think that damage with the fans is something the franchise did not anticipate.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. All right. Fifteen seconds over. Under one and a half titles for Luka with the Lakers.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I don't know.

[Jason McIntyre]

Come on.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I don't know.

[Jason McIntyre]

Got to go over.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

I hit the over. I'm not willing to make that bet.

[Colin Cowherd]

One more herd.

[Jason McIntyre]

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the iHeartRadio app search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

[Steve Covino]

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York. Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7-777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void. In Ontario, new customers only. Bonus bets expire 168. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG co Audio welcome back. Our number two on the herd, Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd. Yes, I'm in relief. I had to go to the bullpen early in this one, folks. Cowherd under the weather. Hopefully back tomorrow. Definitely back Thursday for the Super Bowl. Huge, huge sports weekend just happened and obviously the super bowl, the crown jewel on the sports calendar. That Sunday we're going to have Matt Hesselbeck on to talk about the game. I'm going to pepper him with Miles Garrett. Questions? No, my jets are not going to get involved in Miles Garrett, but I'm sure he has some good teams. Obviously, I'm interested in the super bowl week prep. You know, you get two weeks, which is abnormal. What's that like, you know, how many people are hitting you up for tickets? Good luck texts. High school exes hitting you up. I'm sure Hasselbeck has all the good stuff, so we'll talk to him shortly. But we're going to go back to Luka Doncic to the Lakers just momentarily because I need to do another victory lap, folks. I am like just the biggest Luka Doncic fan. And I remember going, you know, back pre Covid, the Lakers would let the media get press passes and go to the games and you sometimes you get crappy seats, but I would go like two hours before the game and watch shoot around and you could do that on the floor. So I would literally get to the arena when the players are just so I could go to the court. And I went specifically to watch Luka. And I'm just telling you, this guy at his size, he's like 682-4250. He's like an NFL player. He's like the size of a linebacker or a defensive end. And he comes out and he's doing these moves and he makes it look so effortless. And I, I'm not going to lie. You guys know I'm a huge basketball nerd. I play in three men's leagues because I'm an idiot. And I just fell in love with Luka Doncic, his game, he makes it look so easy and he makes everyone better. And there really is only two guys in the league who can do literally everything, make everyone better. I know Jokic is there, but as the big guy, he doesn't have the ball in his hands all the time. The. Everything revolves around him in Denver. But essentially, Luca is LeBron part two. That's what he is. You watch. He carried that Mavs team to the finals last year. Remember, at the trade deadline, Dallas was like a middling team middle of the pack, and Luca just put him on his back and took over and took down mighty OKC and took down the Timberwolves, who had beaten Denver, and they got to the finals. And I know they got smoked by. By Boston. But anybody you hear taking shots at Luka Doncic just has no clue what they're talking about. You look at the numbers, and what he's accomplished in his first six years in the league is unfathomable. And I know Rachel Nichols earlier just said, hey, wembanyama is going to be a top 10 player. I don't think anybody would disagree. But if you just look at the numbers, Luka Doncic is on track to be a top 10 player all time, period. That's what he's done in the first five years of his career for six. Sorry. And now he goes to the Lakers. And, yeah, the pizzas aren't quite there, but you figure it out, right? Hey, we got our superstar. We've got our foundational piece. Now we build around him. You know, keeping Austin Reaves. Pretty savvy move by Rob Pelinka. They gave up Max Christie, who, by the way, Max Christie had looked very good with the Lakers since he got inserted into the starting lineup. They were 15 and 8. But you keep Austin Reeves and you keep that other first pick, so you now have more ammo to go out and make another move. You know, a guy I feel kind of sorry for is Klay Thompson. You know, Klay goes to a team that just went to the finals. Hey, I'm playing with Luka and Kyrie, and now it's like Luka's out the door. And I know this went down Saturday night, but, guys, did you see what happened to Dallas yesterday in their game? They were down like 50 in the first half. I think they gave up 91 or 93 to the Cavs. That's how shell shocked this franchise is. And, you know, I write about stuff on gambling for foxsports.com and they asked me for an NBA take last week, and I looked at the landscape and I said, we don't know when Lively is coming back. Maybe not this, the regular season. And Luca, we don't know when he's coming back. You should Consider betting on the Mavs to miss the playoffs. And we posted it. And of course, I get the usual suspects. These meatballs. Oh, you're an idiot. The Mavs are going to the finals. I'm like, okay, let's just wait. And now you look at him, and you're like, whoa, Geez. If something happens to Kyrie Irving for two weeks and the ad fit is a little clunky. No lively. There's a world where the Mavs miss the playoffs entirely. And I know Charles Barkley. I didn't want to say this when Rachel was here, because she's close with Barkley. Charles Barkley comes out on social media yesterday. The Mavs are the second best team in the West. Like, come on, Charles. I don't need to take unnecessary shots at you. Super bowl week. But they're not the second best team in the West. And in fact, they could miss the playoffs. That's how bleak it could be. Kyrie Irving is really their only shot. Creator. It doesn't look good. If you're the Lakers, you don't care much, much about this year because you got Luca long term. All right, let's welcome in Matt Hasselbeck, the longtime NFL quarterback, just a true legend in the industry, a titan when it comes to sports media. How are you, man?

[Rachel Nichols]

What's up, man? Wally Pip. What do we think, huh? What's going on?

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't think.

[Rachel Nichols]

I thought we were gonna get a Michael Jordan flu game today here from Colin. No.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

He wasn't up for it.

[Jason McIntyre]

He wasn't feeling good.

[Rachel Nichols]

Almost. He gave it a run.

[Jason McIntyre]

He gave it a run.

[Rachel Nichols]

Okay, so it's super bowl week. Two weeks.

[Jason McIntyre]

Two weeks, yes. So take us back to when you went to the Super Bowl 2005 against the Steelers.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, it's 2005, season. 2006. You know, once, you know, the new year comes, and it's very different. You know, I felt very fortunate. I think my teammates did, too. Our head coach was Mike Holmgren. Mike Holmgren had been with the San Francisco 49ers in their heyday with Bill Walsh and, you know, Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott and Steve Young and all those guys. And he had also been to all those Super Bowls with. With Brett Favre and Reggie White and those guys at the Green Bay Packers. So he had a template. Like, he had a. There was no, like, hmm, what should we do here? He like, we got to this. We win the NFC Championship game. We beat Carolina. And then immediately after the game, it was like, the schedules will be in Your locker. We'll have a meeting tomorrow. The schedules will be in your locker right away. Like, they knew, like, they had. They had it down. And I think for us as players, there was just a lot of comfort in that. It was like, you know what? There's a lot to worry about in this situation. Parents, you know, family, tickets, travel, like, all the stuff, actual game. Right. And it was just like this idea of, like, coaches got it, like, we're good, the organization's got it, they're going to be first class and all this stuff. And for both these teams, like, I think that is something. They've both recently been in the super bowl, obviously, Andy Reid and these guys, like, they probably don't even have to look up the schedule and what they do. He can. He could probably commit it from memory. So I think for us, you know, the two weeks was a thing as well. And the biggest thing that I would say about that, like, you saw, you saw even recently with Sean McVay, talk about he had two weeks to prepare for this, for the Patriots in that first super bowl, how he kind of felt like he overcooked it and he was much better the second time around. That was one thing that I certainly felt like. You know, Mike Holmgren did a great job in our. In our. In our super bowl game planning. He was very strict with the coaches, like, in that second week, because you put the game plan in the first week, if you want to put a new play in, fine, but something's got to come out. You know, you get whatever the number was.282 plays for the game plan, but it's not 283, you know, and so, like, I think there is. There is a. There is something to this two weeks of preparation where you're sort of sharpening the ax and not necessarily just swinging harder.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

You know, you're not over trying. And so, you know, this is maybe a wash because these two teams have been there before.

[Jason McIntyre]

They have but one instrumental player, Saquon Barkley. This is his first go round. And I just wonder, for a running back, again, you were a quarterback, but I'm just curious, is he going to be over amped given. Oh, my gosh, Saquon. You come to the Eagles, they're going right back to the Super Bowl.

[Rachel Nichols]

Over amped is a good thing for a running back if it's on game day. Over amp during the week. You know, that's where you can feel exhausted going to the game. And. And I would say if you, if you talk to Most people that play in the super bowl, they'll tell you, I didn't know how exhausted I was from doing media for two weeks straight. You know, talking to people I hadn't talked to or just, you know, all the media availability. I mean, it starts tonight and it just kind of goes through and you're creatures of habit as an NFL player. But no, I, I think for the running back and you even see it with Nick Sirianni and company, I think they've really coached this season, practice this season. You even see who gets healthy, rest days on Wednesday practices during the season they've had. The goal has been this super bowl the whole time. I was pretty vocal and critical even. I thought they should have gone for the rushing record. I thought they should have gone for Eric Dickerson's record. That's a feather in the cap to this great offensive line, this great O line coach. The scheme, the wide receivers blocking the year that Saquon had to Eagles fans like, no, our running back owns that record. And they, and they had a tough decision to make and they said, no, you know, we're going to, we're going to sit you, we're going to let that record pass because our ultimate goal is to hoist Lombardi. And you know, I would have, personally, I would have liked to have seen to try to do both. But with, with that being said, you know, I think that in their mind they know not to overdo it in practice these next two weeks.

[Jason McIntyre]

You mentioned the Eagles run game and that has been a weakness of the Chiefs defense here late in the season. I, I'm trying to think of the game plan the Eagles may employ. They're not just going to come out and run the ball. Run, run, run, run. Right. I can't imagine that, that, you know, the Chiefs are going to be ready for it.

[Rachel Nichols]

I think a lot of times you see those big call sheets that, you know, Andy Reid has his famous. It, you know, looks like the Waffle House menu. You know, it's like, it's a huge call sheet and a lot of times you'll see guys notes on there and like in my, in my playing career, a common thing, a common note that play callers will give to themselves, especially someone who's creative in the passing game is something along the lines of make them prove that they can stop the run. Like make them prove it first. Let's, let's not just like assume that their gap sound like when they want to blitz our protections or do swim moves on a pass rush. Make them Prove that they're going to do that. So no, I, I, I do think that's going to be the thing and I do think that what we've seen in the playoffs, we've seen a ton of home run runs really all season from Saquon. And I heard Bill Belichick talk about this and he, he, he nailed it. He absolutely nailed it it. And basically what he was saying is like when you say oh, just stack the box against the run, well that's no good because once he gets through that first level, it's just the angle of the safety versus Saquon that's deciding an eight yard run to a 68 yard run and that has really destroyed some defenses this year. So what Belichick was saying, I completely agree. You need to have layers to the defense. So stacking the box is not it like too high with you know like two deep safeties, deep ish safeties, 12 yard safeties where those guys can be sort of like the actual safeties to protect home runs. That has to be part of the game plan for Kansas.

[Jason McIntyre]

But then isn't it just death by a thousand eight yard runs sort of.

[Rachel Nichols]

If you think that Kellen Moore is going to be patient enough and boring enough to not have to feed a hyped up AJ Brown and feed Devonte Smith and feed Dallas Goddard and make sure Jalen hurts feels part of the game. Like you're basically this is an old Romeo Cornell saying like make them go the long hard way. Like they, they will, they will get creative. And especially like just knowing Kellen Moore, right? Like Kellen Moore is up for a head coaching job. He, this is still an audition for him. He doesn't have that Saints job. He's, you know, you saw Kyle Shanahan in his super bowl when he could have just been boring and run it but like confident in the year that he had, confident in his, you know, MVP quarterback and is great receiver. Like hey, we can, we can be balanced, we can be balanced. That's the way they're going to want, I think Kansas City is going to want them to be throwing the ball. So that'll be interesting to see. But no, I do think and listen, just even going back to Kellen Moore, knowing who he was as a player, I remember this kid as a high school quarterback in Prosser Washington throwing for like thousands and thousands of yards, beating teams 63 to nothing. His dad was his high school coach. Very aggressive, kind of air raidish vibe as a passer. And then he goes to Boise State you know, Heisman Trophy candidate Kellen Moore. I mean, people forget this. And then he played a couple of games, games in Dallas, and threw for like 400 and something yards and 400 and something yards. He's a passing game guy. So we think of the Eagles as a running team, but trust me, the guy calling the plays in his DNA, what he really is, first and foremost, he wants to throw that ball.

[Jason McIntyre]

By the way, should Saints fans be excited? Excited about him? I don't mean to be negative here, but, you know, he kind of got run out of Dallas. We don't know the circumstances, whether it was McCarthy, didn't want him. Then he goes to the Chargers, and it was ugly there. And now he goes to the Eagles, and it's like, is it Kellen Moore or is it Saquon Barkley?

[Rachel Nichols]

I think it's got all kinds of problems right now, but I would just say, like, when you're talking about a coordinator who can build an offense around a special running back, and I think that's what they did. Like, Philly struggled early, like the first month of the season. They were trying to get an identity. They figured it out. Now the Saints have Alvin Camara and Alvin Camara. Like, to me, he's one of the more underrated guys. Like, you can build around Alvin Camara and somebody else.

[Matt Hasselbeck]

So.

[Rachel Nichols]

But no, this is an audition, right? This is still an audition. And that's what this super bowl is for. For. For a guy like that.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, let's go to the Chiefs. I don't want to say I'm a Chiefs hater. Chiefs fans don't like that. I've been negative. Listen, they're 15 and 2 this season, but let's be real. The better team, would you agree, as the Eagles here team everybody, not just quarterback coach.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I mean, they're like. They're the. I've been on the Eagles all year. I love the Eagles. I think the Eagles are strong. There's every reason in the world to love them. Their. Their talent level is high. Their defense is amazing. Got a ton of respect for Vic Fangio. I've played against him a bunch. He's a headache, you know, to deal with. Their D line's great. The. You know, the. The weapons, they don't spread it around too much. They got A.J. brown, Devonte, Dallas Goddard, Saquon, Jalen. Hurts. Great leader. No, there's. There's all this stuff, but there's. They. It's like Superman.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

With Mahomes. That's what And Andy Reid and there's. And, you know, for all the turnover in the NFL, there's been so much continuity in Kansas City. And I, like, you know, a lot of people, like, they don't get success. They fire a coach, they make a change. They do this like. Like, learn that lesson from Kansas City. Those guys know each other. Like, I know Matt Nagy went away for a little bit, and Eric B. Enemy left. But, like, really, it's been the same coaching staff long time. Yeah. So, you know, again, like, I think, like, you just talk about the. The uniqueness of generational talent with Patrick Mahomes. He's got his guy in Travis Kelce. And then they do have one of the more automatic kickers in the game. They're always in it, so that'll be a tough one to go against. No doubt.

[Jason McIntyre]

And you didn't even mention Spags, really, who is unbelievable. Like, he seems to. At every crucial moment, whether it's against the Niners in overtime, whether it's against the Bills on that fourth down, he seems to know what button to push.

[Rachel Nichols]

So we used to call those retirement blitzes. Like, no, literally, that's what. Like, you really shouldn't do that. Like, you should be playing this conservative. And as a quarterback, our coaches, we'd always say, hey, this guy's resume is so strong. Like, if he never coaches another game and he, like, buys a fishing boat and that's it for him. Like, he's good. You can't trust this guy. He might bring a corner blitz on fourth and eight to win the game. He's not afraid of anything. He'll dial up a retirement blitz whenever he wants to. And it's much harder to go as a quarterback. It's much harder to go up against a guy that, like, well, that doesn't make sense in this situation. But he doesn't care. He's got his super bowl rings as a defensive coordinator. He's good.

[Jason McIntyre]

I just keep coming back to this whole Mahomes versus Brady stuff. I don't. Listen, he's a teammate here. Brady, obviously a fox, but he's the goat to me. And even if Mahomes wins three in a row, I can't vault him over Brady yet. Can you listen?

[Rachel Nichols]

When I was growing up, it was always Joe Montana. Like, Joe Montana was the guy, and no one's going to be Joe Montana. What he did in Super Bowls, it was just ridiculous.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right?

[Rachel Nichols]

It's like, no one's ever going to get there. And that was the talk, you know, and there were There were heroes of mine when I was growing. Michael Jordan, Walter Payton, like these guys that you're just like, oh, no one's at that level. And what did Brady do? Destroyed it. Like, just. Just unbelievable. Put himself in rare air another place. And I remember I was on tv, I was in the media when Mahomes won his first one. And you know, all these producers, they want to say, oh, can Mahomes get to the Tom Brady level? Can he get those playoff wins? Can he win that many Super Bowls? And I remember a lot of, like, people, you know, I think maybe even Steve Young at the time was like, hey, just chill out like this. Let him enjoy his first one. But then you sit and really evaluate the whole thing and you're like, man, if anyone could do it, like, this guy could do it. And at that time, it just felt like how I felt like growing up about Joe Montana. No one's going to get there. And then Brady, like, no one's going to get there. And here's this guy. You look at how old Patrick Mahomes is, how quarterbacks can play later into their career now, they protect the quarterback in terms of hits and stuff like that. He could definitely get there.

[Jason McIntyre]

So it's almost LeBron versus Jordan ish in. You know, LeBron's not going to catch him in rings, but he has everything else. Mahomes, he's probably not going to have as many rings as Brady. Come on. We would agree with that, right?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, yeah, probably. But I'm just saying, like, when I was playing, like, it wasn't even fathomable that someone could even get close. You'd be like, come on, that's ridiculous. Like, no one's getting there. It's kind of like Cal Ripken's streak, you know, like, or Brett Favre, street of like, you know, consecutive games. Like, well, no one's getting there. But, you know, once upon a time, like, or once a generation, like, someone comes along and like, they. They make a run at it and there's no doubt who that guy is. It's. It's Mahomes. And I would even say, like, you know, Andy Reid and some of these coaches, like, they're. They're coaching and like, hey, people want to talk to Andy Reid. Like, hey, when are you going to retire? He is never going to retire. If 15's his quarterback, like, who would do that? Nobody.

[Jason McIntyre]

Two more. So you played for Pete Carroll. Obviously he now has the Raiders job. I'm sure you saw the news over the weekend. Chip Kelly is headed to the Raiders. That's. That's a major steal. I think that's a great hire.

[Rachel Nichols]

It's huge. Yeah. I mean, I love Pete Carroll. You know, Colin talks a lot about, like, if you're hiring a coach, would you hire an X's and O's guy? Or would you hire a kind of a culture builder? And one of the best culture builders in the history of the game is Pete Carroll. Like, he did it at usc, did it in Seattle. He learned from his sort of early mistakes with the jets and the Patriots and became an amazing culture builder. And, you know, he's got a ton of respect and as do I for Chip Kelly. You know, Chip Kelly was the head coach here at ucla. My son committed to play for Chip Kelly got a tremendous amount of respect. Chip Kelly basically gave a big middle finger to the college football, you know, nil transfer portal. Like, just screw up that, you know, the ncaa, in his opinion, has had and said, I'm getting out of here. Like, I don't want. I don't want any part of this. I just want to coach football. I don't want to deal with all the other stuff. I want to get to the NFL. He didn't have a window. Bill O'Brien leaves Ohio State late to become the head coach at Boston College. And what happens? Chip Kelly gets to go just install his offense, call plays, and they win the national championship for Ryan Day. And I think football people understand, they have a ton of respect for, you know, yes, the, the tempo and the passing game and all that stuff that he was at Oregon, but he is a, like kind of an old school. Pull a guard, pull a tackle, we're running trap, misdirection. And I, you know, if you're going to build it from the ground up foundationally with the run game, Pete Carroll clearly feels like he's the guy. And I think other people would agree.

[Jason McIntyre]

Obviously, they don't have a quarterback in. No disrespect, Aiden O'Connell, Purdue guy, but I'm curious, do you think a Sam Darnold would fit? Do you think maybe they make a play for Kirk Cousins, assuming the Falcons want to move off? Like, what do you think Pete and Chip would want at quarterback?

[Rachel Nichols]

I think with Pete now, obviously Tom Brady's involved as well, you know, but like my experience, experiences with Pete, I think Pete wants to kill a mosquito with a sledgehammer at certain positions. Quarterback has to be one. Go back to what he did when he got to Russell Wilson, right? He had paid Tavares Jackson a Ton of money they signed, went out and find Matt Flynn to like the largest free agent contract of anybody that year. And then they drafted a third rounder in Russell Wilson. I don't think Pete cared which one of those guys was going to become his starter. I don't think he cared. He wanted. He loves this word. Compete, compete, compete, compete in everything we do. And let's see, like, who rises to the top in this kind of a situation. And so like, I, I do believe in this in a, you know, the, the money has to be a factor, right? But like, I would not be surprised if he does the same thing. Kills a mosquito with a sledgehammer. Free agency, drafts a guy, maybe someone that he already knows from his past, like all of it. But again, he's also not a guy that believes it needs to be built just around the quarterback. He built that legion a boom before he went and got his qb.

[Jason McIntyre]

So I don't know if they have enough pieces and the division to compete. Like, they're still probably a couple years away. I mean, Broncos probably pull back a little.

[Rachel Nichols]

Listen, there's. There are people who know Pete. They're going to want to coach for Pete, they're going to want to play for Pete. And there's something about that Raiders brand. It matters.

[Jason McIntyre]

But didn't. Didn't they say the same about Antonio Pierce? Remember, like Max Crosby and then we're going to devonte Adams. We must keep him.

[Rachel Nichols]

You got to have the support. You got to have the support to go and invest in the quarterback position. I don't think that that's something that the Las Vegas Raiders ever did. If you don't have the quarterback, it's hard to be successful. And it felt like they were always pushing that, you kind of kicking that can down the road. But no, I. Listen, you know how I feel about Chip. I think I've made that clear. But in terms of Pete Carroll coming in day one, culture building, it's going to be, hey, here's our goal. We're going to maximize the ability that we have. And maybe it's not year one that they're able to do some damage, but they're going to build a foundation for doing damage in the future.

[Jason McIntyre]

Do you have a Super bowl pick or you want to hold off on that?

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, I mean, I prefer to hold off, but I would just say, like, everything, as you study it, everything that matters points to the Eagles. Everything. Great defense, you run the ball, you have great, you know, weapons outside, you've got a quarterback who's Steady, been there, done it. Aside from one fumble, he'd have a Super bowl ring of his own. But like, just look at kind of like through the years of what Brady, there's an X factor that the Chiefs have. And so I think it would be really, really hard to go against the Chiefs, even though everything in your brain is telling you Philly should be that team. Yeah, we'll see. I will say this, though.

[Jason McIntyre]

That sounds like a Chiefs pick. America, I would say.

[Rachel Nichols]

I would say. But listen, the, the story of all the playoffs has been what, turnover, Specifically fumbles. And it's not a round ball. Special teams, great players, not having a great day. It happens. One of the things I learned from Pete Carroll and this was a Kobe Bryant thing. You can absolutely try too hard in a big moment in a big game, and it doesn't make sense at first, but like, if you try too hard, you can actually play worse. And that's why Pete, one of his culture things is like, I don't care what it is. I don't care if it's rock, paper, scissors for per diem. This is everything we do as a competition and a championship mindset. So when you get in that big game, this is just what we do. And that's how I feel about Patrick Mahomes sometimes. In terms of those big moments, this is just what we do.

[Jason McIntyre]

Matt Hasselbeck, former three time Pro bowl quarterback. Great stuff. Thank you, Matt. Hi, I'm Arturo Castro and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon Levitt.

[Steve Covino]

I love storytelling and I love you.

[Rachel Nichols]

So I can't wait.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Steve Covino]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones.

[Colin Cowherd]

Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt.

[Rachel Nichols]

Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast.

[Colin Cowherd]

Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle.

[Rachel Nichols]

Between us, we have over 17,500 passing.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star.

[Rachel Nichols]

So where else are you gonna find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Colin Cowherd]

Hey, you guys, I'm Katherine Legge. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet. And I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm competing in some of the world's most notorious racing events. Tune in to my new podcast, Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legge, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason McIntyre]

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. What's up, everyone?

[Steve Covino]

It's Justin Penik from John Boy Media, the host of the Football Today podcast with Bobby Skinner and Chris Rose. We roll three times a week. On Mondays, on Wednesdays, on Fridays. Breaking down everything you need to know about the NFL. We're gearing up for the NFL playoffs. I hope you can join us. Join in with us three times a week. Listen to Football Today on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and you will be glad you did.