Tyrese Halliburton (8:37)

Basketball's fun. You know, winning is fun. And you know, I'm so proud of the resilience of this group. We've shown it all year. We've had to win in so many.

Colin Cowherd (8:44)

Different, random, unique ways and today we.

Tyrese Halliburton (8:47)

Just kept, kept going, kept fighting and.

Colin Cowherd (8:50)

Man, that's, that's one there. There's. Halliburton is a lot like Steve Nash and that everybody that played with Steve Nash was at their best. He'd give you 15, but he elevated everybody. James Harden scored a lot of guys that score Halliburton. This is a one star team with a bunch of B plus players. But what's amazing is the B plus players for Indiana because of Halliburton and self awareness and movement and pace, they're all playing in an A level like all of Indiana's players are rising to the moment. This is not about the Knicks not playing well. This is about Indiana being on fire and making a remarkable number of big shots. If you did not hear the final call, we'll give it to you from the Pacers radio network. Halliburton driving. He's in the lane. He nearly lost it. He backs up and unloads a three. That did not happen. It hit the back of the rim, popped high into the air and it dropped gently through the net. And the Pacers have. The scoreboard shows 125. 125. It's called a two point shot. So it's just, it's an incredible moment. And I'll get to two things that worry me about the Knicks going forward. Let's now talk about Brunson. So Jaylen had 43 points and you say to yourself that's a great night. But he had seven turnovers. Why? Because he's playing faster than he's used to. That's the most turnovers Jalen Brunson has had all season. And he also got into foul trouble. Again, we're asking somebody who can type 40 words a minute to type 60. You know, it's just. This isn't what he's built for. Brunson and Halliburton are two very different players. Brunson's a score small, strong. He uses, you know, his leverage. He uses his hips. He does that mid post game. He just plays way bigger than his height. But he is a score and a finisher. He sometimes is plotting. He wants to get you in that half court. He wants to work you. He's going to work his shoulders, he's going to work his hips. Halliburton is different. He's long, gangly, herky jerky. It's kind of awkward. He's strong and can use it a couple of times on occasion. But what he is, he's the pace car. He is the guy that's gonna. Okay, I'm gonna tell you how. How fast we're all gonna play. And you can't stop him because he's just so long and gangly. He's a very awkward player. He's hard to defend. The two things that worry me about New York after last night, first of all, Karl Anthony Towns, that's about as good as he can play in the playoffs. He was efficient. He's not always efficient. He hit his threes. He didn't get in foul trouble. You know, Cat gets in foul trouble. Cat does dumb fouls. He's a really good offensive player, but through his career, he drives you nuts. I thought Cat last night was spectacular. I don't know if he can duplicate that. I just don't know if he can play any better than that. It was fun watching it. The second thing is Brunson going to say, hey, man, I got 43. I'm gonna play at this tempo. We're scoring. We should have won the game. They could talk themselves into that. So. But again, I'll say it. Last year, when these two teams play in the end of the series, I mean, Brunson last night, because of foul trouble, played the fewest minutes of any New York Knicks starter. That is not what you want. I don't care if he scored 43 points. And to lose in overtime, when you have the shorter bench. Game one, you blow a pretty big lead at that pace. I didn't love it. That's a game it feels like for the road team to win that game and control the tempo. Didn't love it for New York. Here's Brunson after. Give them A lot of credit. They close the game out like they've been doing it all playoffs. Just not really good on our part for all the players, and I know it wasn't a huge number, but for the players, that said Halliburton is overrated. Check yourself. Because when I'm watching and we were sitting there, I mean, I look at all, I look at the box score and the difference is Knicks had twice as many turnovers and a couple costly ones in overtime. That's your ball game. But I'm going to push back. I'm going to push back on the choke thing. The Knicks scored six minutes left. They scored 24 points. That's enough. And by the way, you have turnovers when you're playing above your tempo. But I think what you're seeing with Halliburton here, and I don't know if it's innate, I don't know if you're born with it, but there are some people that not only does he rise in the moment, but he elevates all his teammates in the moment. I mean, I got nothing against the Pacer squad. It's a really good team. But there's a lot of B guys right now that are playing an A level on the road in New York against a really well coached team. What you're watching with Indiana is we just got to give them credit. We can blame the Knicks on this. You got to give Indiana credit. They are really, really. And we said this J. Mac, you called it. You picked them over Cleveland. And one of the reasons you did, you, you fell in love with Halliburton last year. Last year on the show, folks, if you didn't listen, he went crazy on Halliburton. He basically called him the next Magic Johnson. And I don't think that's his style, but I do see a lot of Steve Nash. Yeah, he can score, he can take the foot off the gas, he can play. But Nash just could. When you watch Steve Nash, how did Steve Nash win the MVP at 15 a game? Because he controlled the basketball game. Steve Nash literally controlled every game he was in. People were like, how can you win mvp? You had to watch the Suns play. What Indiana is doing and you caught onto it last year is they are between Caitlin Clark and the Pacers. They are so much to me, fun to watch. Yeah, I love the Halliburton story. You know, Midwest kid, grew up under, recruited the big colleges didn't want him. I love the stories of these underdogs coming out of nowhere. Colin, he's emerging Right now, honestly, as one of the most clutch players in the league and I mean I don't see how he's not like an all NBA guy, how he's not like a top 10 player. He does everything and like you said, makes everyone around him better. Think about that. Much like Nash last two years we've talked about the Sixers and the Celtics and we've talked about all these teams. Pacers back to back, back to back Eastern Conference finals. But let's be real, the Knicks are not in that much trouble. It took six threes from Niecemith in the fourth quarter. That's I believe an NBA record. Like listen, we're not going to see that again. However, the choke by my Knicks has me a little nervous because you know, they go into game two, you can't blow game two. And Pacers have sown a propensity. They stole game two in Cleveland. Yeah, I mean the thing about Indy is they're completely fearless at home or away, doesn't matter. And I think some of that is, it's almost like hockey. It's when you play fast, the road crowd, you're flying by the crowd. This is not applauding half court offense where the fans are on you. They're just up and down the floor. It's hard to get your arms around Indiana. They're just breakneck, you know, I'm not comparing him in any way to the Showtime Lakers, but the Celtics could do more half court. The Lakers were up and down the floor. Nash's sons were up and down the floor. Jordan's Bulls could do a lot of half court stuff. So it's just, it's. They just watching Indiana, I, you know, I. Obviously the New York crowd's insane and wonderful. You can't tell where they're playing. Every time the Pacers play, it looks the same. They're a tempo team more than anything else. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake, that's a no. A Philly cheesesteak. That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you Today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright, the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you work so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC. Licensed in 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org Number 3030 $178,000. Average equity is based on internal Rocket Mortgage servicing data. Hey everybody, you've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official Whiskey of the Herd podcast. And if you know anything about me, I love a good metaphor. So the team at Green river challenged me to come up with a perfect metaphor to describe their incredible bourbon and rye whiskeys. And with the playoffs upon us, the answer is clear. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team, always sure to raise your spirits. So pair the thrills of this playoff season with Green River Whiskey. And with four core products in their starting lineup, there's something to suit any taste. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhisky.com here's the green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. A product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly. You're now entering the no Bull zone sponsored by Credible Great Rates. None of the Bulls. So let's get to the choke gesture. We talked about it regarding the WNBA yesterday and the day before is there is a performative nature to sports. Trash talking. Taunting, within reason, flaunting. I'm okay with it. I thought it was funny that Halliburton did the choke signal. He thought he'd won. So did I, by the way. It's hard to sometimes relate to 6 foot 9, 6 foot 10 basketball players, but that was a relatable moment. We've all done that right in the playground. Chest out. Sports makes you feel something. And I don't think it's fair to ask these athletes to train for years to do something, then surround them with 20,000 people and then in the biggest shot in the world at that moment, to ask an athlete to be subtle and nuanced. I watched that last night and I'm like, here we go. If you didn't see the Reggie Miller Spike Lee moment, that got a 30 for 30. And Reggie Miller last night is laughing. Watching Halliburton, you can say what you want. It's iconic. It got documentaries. Even Bill Belichick, as grumpy as he can be. I can remember watching a story, a documentary on Belichick. Belichick used to say, guys, celebrate. This stuff is hard. Scoring touchdowns is hard celebrate. Belichick was furious when you didn't pump your fist, when you didn't play with emotion. So I mean, listen, the choke sign is universal. Sometimes it feels like it's warranted. It's personal. Reggie Miller laughing about it on tv. But I just thought the whole thing, the shot, the moment, the sign, I thought it was all time stuff. Here's Hallelujah in the moment.

Tyrese Halliburton (22:22)

I mean, I wasn't like plotting on it or anything.

Colin Cowherd (22:25)

I just, everybody wanted me to do.

Tyrese Halliburton (22:27)

It like last year at some different point. But it's just gotta, it's gotta feel right. And it felt right at the time. If it would have been. If I would have known it was a two, I would not have done it. So I think I might have wasted it.

Colin Cowherd (22:43)

He's having a remarkable postseason. So he's averaging nine and a half assists a game. Leads the NBA in the playoffs. Six games with 10 plus assists. And he's a scorer by the way, his clutch time points. It's really remarkable. There's a fine line between being confident and arrogant. And I think he's an incredibly likable, confident player. I don't think it veers into arrogant. I think it's just really confident. They have four wins now trailing. Think about this. This postseason they have four wins when trailing by 17 points. And I think a lot of it's Halliburton, but I also think it's their pace. When you play fast and you're not sloppy, they're not sloppy. So when you play fast, 17 points feels like you're down nine. You know, the Knicks get down 17 points. The way they play, a more plotting style, it feels like it's over. But Steph Curry got down 17. The Steve Nash teams got down 17. It's different. You're always within a punch. And so they're very unique team when being down does not mean being out. I still like Indiana to win this series. I thought the Knicks played well enough to win. And I'm not sure anybody but the Pacers and maybe OKC could have beaten the Knicks last night in Madison Square. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Ko Vino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out, not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home and equity. That's the part of your home you own outright. The value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available. Now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you work so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030 $178,000 average equity is based on internal Rocket mortgage servicing data. Hey everybody. You've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official Whiskey of the Herd podcast. And if you know anything about me, I love a good metaphor. So the team at Green river challenged me to come up with a perfect metaphor to describe their incredible bourbon and rye whiskeys. And with the playoffs upon us, the answer is clear. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team, always sure to raise your spirits. So pair the thrills of this playoff season with Green River Whiskey. And with four core products in their starting lineup, there's something to suit any taste. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhisky.com here's the green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. A product of Green River Distilling Co. Owensboro, KY. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhisky.com Please drink responsibly. In just three days, it's the biggest day in motorsports as the greatest spectacle in Racing. The 109th Indy 500 comes to Fox with Joseph Newgarden going for a historic three peat. Coverage begins at 10am Eastern Sunday on Fox. We are fired up for the race. We got an authentic Indy 500 driver helmet and an Indy 500 milk jug. Of course the winner Sunday will continue the tradition of drinking milk in victory lane. So SGA won the MVP this week. I would have voted him MVP regular season award. And I do think how your team finishes matter. Jokic's Nuggets weren't as good in the regular season. I think Jokic is the best player in the world. But Michael Jordan did not win. Nor did LeBron or Magic in his prime. They didn't win the MVP every year. A lot of it is how is your team doing? And SGA's team won by an average of 12.9 points. They were a blizzard, a hot knife through butter of this league. So and he's he's a remarkable player. But the other thing is, he now is eligible for $380 million with the new CBA. And I would have no problem writing that check. Unlike Luca, I don't question his fitness. Unlike Giannis, I want him to have the ball. With two minutes left, he'll hit the free throws. Unlike Kawhi or Embiid, there's no load management. I like Donovan Mitchell. I don't think he elevates teammates quite as much as SGA does. Even for billionaire owners, the new CBA makes you pause. You have to consider everything. $76 million per season. If you're just dropping 30 that it used to be in the NBA. Get buckets. You'll get your max. Nope. Nope. Not interested. That's why Laker fans now see watch every night. You really know a player. When he's yours, he's on your team. Otherwise, nobody outside of OKC is watching OKC every night, they are in okc. So, you know, with sga, you get the whistle, you get elevation. There's no load management. He gets you buckets. He's great in clutch time. That's the easiest check in the league to write after Jokic. That's the easy one. A lot of these guys that like Jamal Murray. I like Jamal Murray. He plays himself into shape. I'm not signing that check. I'm not giving you $300 million. Luca. That was the concern in Dallas. He's playing himself into shape. Those are the guys that get hurt more. So I think now that you have this, you have this new cba. If you miss on a player like Trey, Young gets buckets. I'm not. I like Trey. I'm not paying that money for trade and play defense. I don't know if he's a leader. I don't know if he elevates teammates. He gives you some assists. And I like Trae Young, but I think all the stars thought, oh, this new CBA is great, but I'm a billionaire. It's one thing paying LeBron 38 million in his prime. I'll sign that check. I'll pay LeBron 76 million in his prime. But Kevin Durant was a little flaky. Kevin Durant had a few injuries. I'm going to think about it. And that's why I said, if Nico Harrison would have gotten three firsts and Austin Reaves with ad, I would have defended the move. Not sure I would have made it. I would have defended it. Like I get Giannis. He's had some injuries. You don't want him with the ball late, he's bad at the free throw line. Like, that doesn't mean he's not a star. But $380 million, you get into that area, I have to consider everything. And it's just an incredibly punitive new cba. And so it's just not about getting buckets anymore. Here's SGA on winning the award.

Tyrese Halliburton (32:27)

I always thought that, like, I could be a really good player because I had, I had seen like, what just putting your head down and working and.

Colin Cowherd (32:36)

Controlling what you can control can do.

Tyrese Halliburton (32:37)

For you, like I dreamt about as a kid. But it's like a, you know, as.

Colin Cowherd (32:40)

A kid, it's a fake dream.

Tyrese Halliburton (32:41)

But to, to, as the days go on and you realize that, like, you get closer to your dream, it's hard to like, not freak out. It's hard to like, not be a 6 year old kid again. And I think that's what's allowed me to achieve it.

Colin Cowherd (32:56)

You know, I gotta tell you, right now, with the NBA, between sga, Tyrese Halliburton and Jalen Brunson, I'm not sure there ever been three more relatable NBA stars. I mean, again, NBA guys are six, eight. I remember going to the ESPYs and, you know, athletes are big, but they look like human beings. And then you watch the NBA guys come in in their tuxes and they're 7 2. They don't look like the rest of it. You know, Teddy Bruski I work with, he was a great, fearless linebacker. After he retired, he carried a briefcase. He looked like the company's accountant. You couldn't tell. So I just find that SGA is just such a relatable dude. Halliburton and Brunson, it's really cool. So we talked about this yesterday. I said, I thought that Jason Kelsey with his inspirational speech to the owners, got the tush push. Barely. Now, I'll say this. It was a 22 to 10 vote against the tush push. Let's not make it sound like people were in favor of it. The league didn't really want it. The health and safety committee didn't want it. The rules committee didn't want it, and 22 owners didn't want it. But you needed 24 to get it banned. So the NFL, as suspected, asked the packers to propose a failed tush push. That's been reported. So the league did not want it. The league didn't want it. The vote led to a, according to stories here, multiple heated exchanges. So this is one of these things where I said this yesterday. I think it's Jason Kelsey and Jeffrey Lurie. And this is the thing about the NFL. And I guess this is the same with every league. But there are certain owners in the NFL that have a lot of pull. And it's not Michael Bidwell. Okay? It is. Jerry Jones wanted an NFL team in Vegas. There's an NFL team in Vegas. Jerry Jones wanted the Rams to go from St. Louis to Los Angeles. They went from St. Louis to Los Angeles. Robert Kraft has always handled. I'm not sure if he still does. For years, he handled all the TV deals. He would collectively talk to all the owners, and then he would go call Fox and CBS and NBC and espn. So Jeffrey Lurie of Philadelphia got a lot of smoke. Stan Kroenke is one of the richest. Arthur Blank, the Hunt family, they've earned it. Kraft, Jerry Jones, you know, Detroit's owners, Cleveland's owner, Chicago's owner, Arizona's owner. Either they don't have the money. They don't have the wins. I think people look at Philadelphia, I don't think. I think if 25 teams were doing the tush push, it would be banned. I think it is allowed because it's Philadelphia and Jeffrey Lurie. And I think there's only about four to five owners that get this thing pushed through. A Steve Busch of Baltimore maybe get it gets it pushed through. But Philadelphia is iconic. They arguably have the most passionate fan base. They're a blue blood that's incredibly important for the league. Jeffrey Lurie is a creative, progressive owner. Howie Roseman has built the best roster. They're good for the league. I mean, I've said this about all pro sports in America. You could drop six to eight NHL teams. Nobody would. 99% of you don't know the arena the St. Louis Blues play in. You could drop eight baseball teams. You could drop about five to six NBA teams. Nobody would care. It's the same in the NFL. I got news for you. You could erase about six NFL teams. Nobody would care. Philadelphia is one of those four foundational teams to me, like Philadelphia, the Niners, Out West, Philadelphia, the Green Bay Packers. There's just. There's just a handful of teams. Dallas Cowboys, obviously, they just matter a lot. So I think. I think this comes down to Jeffrey Lurie. Philadelphia, they're standing in the league. Jason Kelsey or this thing. Again, the vote was 22 to 10. If it was 24 to 8, it's banned. And, you know, people are upset with it. I do think. I do think the one thing that, you know, for years and years, Phil Jackson ran, they called it the triangle offense. And you're like, why didn't everybody use the triangle offense? And my argument would be, because you didn't have Michael Jordan and Kobe. The triangle offense. Yeah. Lamar Odom was kind of a clever player that it worked with. It worked mostly because of Kobe and Michael Jordan. This tush push works because it's the biggest offensive line in league history. And it works because Jalen hurts, squats 600 pounds and he's small. I mean, you would. If I would have told you you'd never seen the tush push because Tom Brady in his era was a tall guy that was kind of lanky and was the best quarterback sneak guy. If I would have told you you'd never watch the NFL, I'd say, there's this team. All you knew is you kind of had a sense of the league. I said, there's this team that invented this play. It's a one yard play. Who do you think runs it? You would have guessed, like, oh, Lamar Jackson could always get a yard, or Josh Allen or Herbert. They're huge. They could get a yard. You know, you look at the big guy, I said, no, It's Jalen Hurts. Second round. Jalen Hurts. Small, squat, 650 pounds behind the biggest offensive line in league history. So it's a lot of Jalen hurts. This, this. Even with that old line. It doesn't work with Jared Goff. Okay? It's not going to work. It's not working with Brock Purdy. It's probably not working with Joe Burrow. It works with Jalen Hurts. So I do think Philadelphia's argument is A, there's no, there's no data that people are getting hurt, and B, we've got unique personnel. Don't punish us for being the deepest offense in the league. Two receivers, two tight ends, star quarterback, star back for all pro level alignment. Don't punish us for that. I think that's the best argument I've had Philadelphia fans say, you're punishing us. We created something. It's a good argument.

Tyrese Halliburton (39:10)

Now.

Colin Cowherd (39:12)

Now, the defensive shift in baseball was created by Joe Madden down in Tampa. And the problem was everybody started using it. Right. That wasn't really player specific and it, it made the game slower. You did not want Bryce Harper lining out. You wanted Bryce Harper and the hair and the look. You wanted it on base. So that was so easy to duplicate. It became bad for the league. Just like Adam Silver right now doesn't love all the three Point shots because you can find three point shooters. What Philadelphia is doing is hard to duplicate, and so it's not all through the league. You only see it about four times a game from one team. So the unique flavor of it actually works to Philadelphia's favor. If 22 teams were using this 11 times a game, it would get banned because what the owners really care about is the entertainment value. But one team does it well and uses it four to five times a game. It's their thing. It's their thing. J. Mac. Great first hour on a Friday. We got Channing Fry and Paul Pierce stopping by to get today on. On. Yeah, I got some good news for you.

Tyrese Halliburton (40:22)

They're the.

Colin Cowherd (40:23)

The numbers on the Brock Purdy contract. The granular numbers are coming out. I'll send them to you during the break. Okay. You're gonna love it. Hour one down on a Thursday. Hour two next in Chicago, it's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. And with that, Channing Fry, who started his career in New York for the Knicks, is now joining us live. A man 13 years in the NBA, that was. I don't even. It's just crazy. So how do you view. Like I said, I think basketball players are artists. Like I've always said, you're all got your quirky mannerisms and idiosyncratic styles. What do you make of Halliburton and the choke?

Tyrese Halliburton (41:08)

First of all, Tyrese is one of the nicest human beings ever. I think when. I think when he got voted most overrated person, I think that was a problem. There was a time when the Pacers were playing the Cavs in the. The crowd started chanting overrated. And Donovan Mitchell was telling them, be quiet. Like the players, stop it. And he went off. I text Tyrese and I said, hey, you are garbage the first three quarters. And then all of a sudden you go into the phone booth and come out like Superman. It's unbelievable the plays that he does. I wouldn't have never had the wherewithal. You know, most players in that situation would take the two because they're like, oh, I just want to, you know, we'll tie the game up. He had a wide open layup, turned his back, looked at the other clock, found the three point line sort of, and then shot a three over Mitchell Robinson, who's a seven foot dude who has the longest arms. And look at this. Like, this is the layup right here. And he goes, nope. And shot that for game. It's like you cannot make this up. I played with a lot of great players. I don't know four of the greatest players that I played with that would have shot that shot. But like the belief that he has in himself and his team, that they have. I thought the Pacers, in that fourth quarter, they dismantled the Knicks by being a better team where the Knicks had a better player in Brunson.

Colin Cowherd (42:44)

Right.

Tyrese Halliburton (42:44)

I think OG was the only one who shot a shot in the last five minutes of that fourth quarter into overtime where the Pacers, everyone had to play Obie Toppin. Niecemith went, absolutely. Who was that? Was that Neesmith Curry? Like? It was, but it was so good. So good.

Colin Cowherd (43:05)

Channing, you know who he does remind me of? I said this an hour ago. His self awareness, his ability to score but elevate others. He reminds me of a guy you played with, Steve Nash. Nash won an MVP averaging 15 a game. Came back the next year, won another MVP, averaging 18. Everybody's like, whoa, whoa, wait, you can't win an MVP. No, no, no, no. Yes, you can. Everybody played their best ball but Nash, who's one of the smartest guys I've ever met. I mean, like in or out of sports, Nash had this self awareness. Nash had this, I know he could drive people crazy. He had the self awareness to know the tempo, the score, who was weak, who was infoul. It was like a good quarterback. He knew your soft spot and he would attack it. And so to me, Halle's got a little Nash in him.

Tyrese Halliburton (43:52)

I think he has a lot. I think he has a lot. I think he is the only star in our league that can be a star and score 10 points a game. Like he can have 10 points and he can dominate the whole game. I think he's the only one like that. He is a true past first point guard. And if he wasn't that way, the Pacers would not be who they are. Like, if the Pacers had Brunson, I don't think they would be the Pacers. The fact that every one of their starters scored in that fourth quarter in overtime, the fact that everyone, when they go on a run, everyone knows where the ball's going. They, they believe in their culture. The fact that they stood pat, really didn't bring anyone in last year or this year and just said, hey, we went to the Eastern Conference finals, let's run this back. Their belief in each other is crazy. And it's because Halliburton is never playing with his ego. He's playing with the fire to win games. So like there are games where sometimes he's going to have two points. Now, is that a bad game for him? For sure. But they could still win with him scoring two points because he's doing this all game. He's not, he's not pressuring. But when it's time to win, they all look to him to make a play. And I think we, no one brought this up but like, even when they beat the Bucks, you know, there's no way. Tyrese Halliburton, I texted, I told him this on the phone. I said that old week old left to right crossover shouldn't have got past nobody. And you go past Giannis Antetokounmpo and lay that ball up in his face for game. Giannis is a top five defender in the league. And how does you, with no muscles, a weird looking jump shot get by him and do this? He goes, I don't know, man, I just be, I just got to do what I got to do. And so, you know, for me, I think there's going to be a great series. Obviously, the game one was nuts. It's going to come down to the Knicks defense and can the Pacers continually play that pace? Well, look at that pace is play with pace in this series. I'm curious to see the changes the Knicks make the next game.

Colin Cowherd (46:01)

Yeah, I said last night, Brunson has 43, but he had seven turnovers and he got in early foul trouble. And I said, it's almost like being a typist that types 50 words a minute. And Halliburton made Brunson type 70 words a minute. And he, he was, I felt like even though he got the points, I don't think it's one of the great Jalen Brunson games because he had more turnovers last night than he had all year. And I, and I really thought the story of the game is that it was Indy 500 and that's not the Knick style. And I, Indy got them exactly like they wanted. And Brunson kind of said, okay, I'll do this. Maybe it's vanity, ego, I get it. But like I'm like, okay, if you're going to play that way, then you have to win that game in regulation in New York. You can't lose that game.

Tyrese Halliburton (46:45)

Yeah, I think one thing we're not taking into account is watch that fourth quarter. They started double team Brunson aggressively. Remember, he got trapped in the backcourt and he just threw the ball. If Siakam was in the right place, that would have been a turnover. They double teamed him but he fell down, he got a foul. When he gets double teamed, he is very uncomfortable in these situations. And look how many players they put like that. That's a simple double team. Look at this, another double team. So like to me, their offense stalled out in that fourth quarter and here's the real coming to Jesus moment. They are hunting, hunting him and Cat in screen and roles. Yeah, it is wild to watch. You look at the clip. Every time niece Smith made a three, it was except for one at the end of the game with Josh Smith and Mitchell which they should have switched, which is a stupid mistake. A Dude who has 17 points and they're running a specific play for him. Switch. Let Obi Toppin shoot a three. Anybody else but the dude who's hot? So like that was a mental error. But they are going at Cat and I don't know if you saw the clip of OG yelling at Cat after, you know, he just laid on that screen. That's going to be a problem because now the three things the Pacers did that game is they found out Russell gets in foul trouble and turns the ball over when you aggressively double team him. 1, 2. Cat does not want to move his feet. End of game, he's exhausted.

Colin Cowherd (48:11)

Yep.

Tyrese Halliburton (48:12)

Three, if you go at Brunson, he stalls the offense out in that fourth quarter because they can't run a screen and roll with him anymore because he's uncomfortable getting double teamed. So if you notice those clips, he's going one on one in Neesmith and Nemhard and shepherd and Halliburton and Siakam, all those dudes are taking turns guarding him. So it's six on one and he's exhausted and no one else is touching the ball. They need to play him as Steph Curry in the fourth quarter instead of Brunson. So he's throw the ball, the cap, run some away screens, get him to run towards the ball. But is he comfortable doing that and can the Knicks win play in that game? We'll see. I'm very curious to see how it works.

Colin Cowherd (48:56)

You know, it's so Channing Fry joining us for our radio audience, one of my favorite people that covers this league and talks about it. So New York is fascinating. Jordan had some of his best games there. Kobe had some of his best games there. I mean, Halliburton is having the time of his life. New York's a weird place that it inspires the great players even though it's a home court advantage. You play, you started Your career there. Take my audience to. I remember watching Big east games there, and I'm like, this is crazy. Tell me. Take my audience to playing as a Nick. As an opponent in Madison Square Garden. It feels different to me.

Tyrese Halliburton (49:36)

So, you know, the college experience is that when you're a really good player or really good team, the opposing team boos you the whole time. When you go to the Garden, it's like being in a center of, like, you're a gladiator. You're winning the crowd over. And that's the problem. That's the problem, because if you start hooping, they. The oohs and ahs are like. It gets you even more adrenaline. And the Knicks fans have so much basketball knowledge that if you do something good, they'll be like, dang, that's a good shot, man. That's tough. Where other fans are like, boo and f you, and you suck.

Colin Cowherd (50:16)

Right?

Tyrese Halliburton (50:16)

They're not saying that. So if you start doing well, it's a problem, because all of a sudden, you're feeding on their adrenaline. You're feeding on shutting them up. And as a Knicks player, you have to each game, win the fans back over. So it's not like you could just walk on the court and be loved. It's. You could walk on the court, miss your first four, and Tracy Morgan's like, stop shooting the ball, you big dummy. You're like, wait, I just had 40 last game. So to me, it is the greatest place to play basketball. And I promise, if anyone has an opportunity to go watch basketball or even, you know, hockey, there it is. So historic, so beautiful, but yet it's not a regular arena. No, you are playing, like, at the park, where they may talk crap to you, you can talk crap to them. But if you start cooking, look, think about with Trae Young. Trae Young pokes at them all the time, and they react to it because it's a movie. It's theater. It encompasses, like, the New York attitude of who's going to give me the best show. They dim the lights on the. In the. In the stadium, so you just focus on the court. It's. It's an. It's. You know, I'm getting goosebumps talking about it. It is such a great opportunity to play there.

Colin Cowherd (51:34)

Well, it starts with Rucker Park. It goes to Broadway. It goes to the Big East Tournament. It goes to New York. New Yorkers are very well versed on Great. And they appreciate it. Oh, yeah, listen, I was set about New York. I didn't love the traffic. I Didn't love the weather. I loved the people. The people are.

Tyrese Halliburton (51:51)

Food is great too.

Colin Cowherd (51:53)

Pizza or hoops, they love their. Okay, let's go. Let's go to Minnesota. Okc, like, like, like, here's the thing with Ant and I think this is a reality of the modern player. Like there was never a time with Michael Jordan. I can remember the Utah finals. Mike shot like 33 times, made seven. Mike went down, swing it. Like sometimes with Tatum or sometimes with Ant. I'm like, Bro, 13 shots. What's going on? I think the modern player, they're all rich and it's a more collaborative world. And sometimes like when the shots don't fall, like, guys are like, okay, I'm not gonna. And I just, I grew up with Michael and it's just like, no, Michael didn't have that. He was gonna take the shots. Kobe was gonna take the shots. Could I argue with Ant that he's not forceful enough at times?

Tyrese Halliburton (52:43)

No, I think the rules are different. When Mike won the ball back in the 90s, the three seconds, he could go play one on one. And if he missed, he missed. Now if you notice OKC's defense, they basically put their best on ball defender. So they're up and Ants jockstrap, they force him to drive into help. Look at this. Look how many people are technically guarding him. On that play alone, he had four different people. Look, what does he see right there? So what does he see? Look, he's being double teamed, triple teamed. Like, this is what I think people don't understand about OKC double teams right there. They are making him. They do such a good job of making players have early pickups and throw the ball. These lob passes while guys are just shooting, passing lanes. It's absolutely gorgeous to watch them play. I think Ant doesn't want to settle for threes because that's the only thing they're giving up. They're like, we'll give you threes. We've seen you go over 11. And for him, he doesn't have lanes until his others win a game. Ant is going to have problems finding lanes to attack the rim. So he wants to play good basketball. OKC is forcing him to trust his teammates. Right? And this is the attitude that I've seen in the first game. There's one player on Minnesota that could beat us and we're not gonna let you play basketball. Anybody else could try and beat us, but we believe in our others more than your others. And it worked. And so Ant, let's say does shoot 30 times. How many of those are going to be near the rim? Not very many. Yeah, they're gonna be 29 threes. He just, he just. It's like in today's game, if you don't have movement, if you're a great one on one guy, the way OKC plays defense, you're not, you're. You're not comfortable. You're not getting to your spot. Because even if one guy gets fouled. Trouble. Oh, oh, Lou dork gets in foul trouble. Oh, here go Caruso. Here go Isaiah Jones. He go sga. He go. Look how many different people. And like even this play right here, the wherewithal for that team to state to fan out, right, not help and let Chet play that one on one is just their one conscious mind and one thing to notice for the next game or tonight. Watch how many guys, when big men are around, you know how guards usually go over the top. Watch how many times they swipe down and don't go for the block. They allow Hartenstein and Jet to be tall while they swipe the ball and make the guy don't have a straight line to go shoot. And I'll give you an example. It's like remember when Junior or swiped at Andre Guadala so he didn't have a dunk during the 2016 finals and he had to go shoot that layup so he knew not to foul, but he just wanted Andre to, you know, kind of avoid him. And it gave LeBron an opportunity to get that block. They do this all game long. It is like such a mind meld to see their discipline on defense. I mean, OKC is, is my pick to win at all. I just don't see anybody that has a big man that can take advantage of them. Inside and then kick out with threes is really the only way to beat him. But you know, like, Lord have mercy. Poor, poor Minnesota.

Colin Cowherd (56:03)

They're.

Tyrese Halliburton (56:03)

They get their others going to need to shoot the ball.

Colin Cowherd (56:06)

All right, let's end with this. Clippers are a well run organization. Lawrence Frank is a smart guy, but Sam Presti stole SGA from them. I remember when he was in Kentucky and came out, I didn't think he was the best Kentucky player. He's a combination of like 8% Kiki Vandaway, 9% Alex English. You know, he's a. He's a different player that initiates contact contact. He doesn't have like a loophole move like James Harden. He just, he's just one of these guys that may not jump out. I mean, obviously He's a great player, but, I mean, Sam Presti kind of stole him. Are you surprised by how dominant he has become? Did you see it seven years ago.

Tyrese Halliburton (56:47)

Man, when he was on the Clippers? I remember being in the back going, yo, that dude is good when he gets his opportunity. I thought he'd be a perennial all star. But what Shay does that is great. And people take this, don't take this into account. Watch how many times he puts two feet in the paint. So, like, his aggression is so constant and continuous. Like every single one of these clips, he puts two feet in the paint and gets. Look at his aggression. So we're clipping saying, oh, he's foul baiting. Who goes to the hole more than him? I don't know very many people that constantly go to the hole as much as he does. So let's say he goes to the hole 100 times, he gets fouled 20. Where other people go the hole 20 times, they get fouled five. It's just the way their system is, the way that they have shooters, they spread the floor. But he's a willing passer and they have good shooters. So, like, his job is to just get to the paint. Just get to the paint. And, man, he just looks at the game. So specifically, he works on a certain part. Does his shoulders get a little bigger so now he can bump better? Is his footwork better? Is this, you know, right to left better? Does he like to go left? Does he like to go right? He's looked at this every single year and dissected his game. And so, you know, you talk about Hoopers and guys who are psycho. He is psycho. And that's why he's mvp.

Colin Cowherd (58:10)

Yeah, he's. He's a bit obsessed. I mean, I always said this about Brady. Brady was the best quarterback mechanically I've ever seen. And it allowed Brady to be the best cold weather snow thrower I've ever seen. Wasn't because he had the biggest arm, his mechanics were impervious to weather. His literally his torque, his shoulders, his feet. I mean, Tom was obsessed. He. He practiced falling instead of getting sacked. And that's sj. Chris, you're watching a. An artist who has honed his craft. That's. That's what he's done. Okay, now, Channing Fry, you're so good at this, my man. You gave us 20 minutes.

Tyrese Halliburton (58:43)

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it, man.

Colin Cowherd (58:44)

And you didn't have to have. You're gonna have you back soon, buddy.

Tyrese Halliburton (58:49)

Anytime you want, man. I appreciate it. You have a good day.

Colin Cowherd (58:52)

All right, Channing Fry. Great stuff. Yeah, I mean, when you watch sga, that's a pro. You could be a landscaper, you could be a quarterback, you could be an attorney. That is a pro. That is a guy has worked meticulously on his game and Channing Fry really breaks it down. Well, summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry, A box fan. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine. No. A box of fine wines. Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. You've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the herd podcast. I love a good metaphor, so here's one for you. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team. Always sure to raise your spirits. So pair the thrills of this playoff season with Green River Whiskey. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's the green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits, a product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com, please drink responsibly. Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience. Seamlessly integrates powerful performance. It's bold, daring design, a refined interior, details, cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric suv. SUV Compromise? Not one of them. The following heartwarming yet informative scene is brought to you by Trust and Will. Son, your grandpa and I used to work on this car together, and when I'm gone, I want you to have it. Wow. Thanks, dad. Doesn't count. What you need is a will. Luckily, trust and will makes it easy. Designed by attorneys but customized by you, you can easily create a state specific, legally valid document that actually counts. Now let's let the engine do the talking. Am I right? Start your will@trustandwill.com use offer code count for 20% off and make it count. Trust and Will is an online estate planning service. For details, see trustandwill.com you're listening to an iHeart podcast.