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Best of The Herd - The Herd with Colin Cowherd | Wave AI Podcast Notes

Back to The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Best of The Herd

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Fri Nov 29 2024

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Best of The Herd (November 29, 2024)

The Herd with Colin Cowherd delivers an engaging and in-depth analysis of the latest developments in the NFL, focusing primarily on the Chicago Bears' tumultuous season, quarterback Caleb Williams' performance, and broader discussions on organizational culture within NFL teams. Hosted by Doug Gottlieb, Jonas Knox, and Lavar Arrington, with insights from guest Albert Breer, this episode provides listeners with thoughtful commentary and expert opinions on critical sports narratives.

1. Chicago Bears' Controversial Coaching Change

The episode kicks off with an intense discussion about the Chicago Bears' recent decision to fire head coach Matt Eberflusse following a disappointing performance against the Detroit Lions.

Performance Breakdown: The Bears faced an eighth consecutive loss, struggling particularly in the second half of the game. Despite initial dominance and a close scoreline of 16-0, the team couldn't maintain their momentum, leading to heightened scrutiny of the coaching strategies employed in critical moments.

"The operation wasn't fast enough, and we didn't do a good job of executing." – [11:03] Lavar Arrington
Immediate Aftermath: Albert Breer breaks the news of Eberflusse's termination, noting its unprecedented nature in the Bears' century-long history.

"The Chicago Bears have just fired Matt Eberflusse as head coach following yesterday's disaster." – [26:52] Doug Gottlieb
Leadership Impact: The conversation highlights how the late-game management and timeout decisions directly influenced the Bears' performance, emphasizing the coach's accountability in high-pressure scenarios.

"Caleb Williams had an, he should have called timeout of time." – [13:54] Doug Gottlieb

2. Caleb Williams: Struggles and Potential

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around rookie quarterback Caleb Williams, exploring his on-field challenges and the potential impact of organizational support on his development.

Performance Critique: Both hosts express concern over Williams' ability to handle pressure, particularly in late-game situations where he appears overwhelmed.

"Caleb is not going. I just don't think he has the mental makeup to become a shell shocked type of guy." – [08:20] Jonas Knox
Organizational Responsibility: The hosts debate whether the Bears' coaching staff provided sufficient support and preparation for a rookie quarterback facing intense defensive pressure.

"It's on the coach for not managing that situation accordingly." – [11:25] Lavar Arrington
Future Outlook: Despite current struggles, there remains optimism about Williams' potential if the Bears can rebuild a supportive and effective team structure around him.

"If they can figure out how to build a formidable group of personnel around Caleb Williams, next year could be serious." – [08:45] Jonas Knox

3. Organizational Dysfunction in NFL Teams

The conversation delves into the broader issue of dysfunction within NFL organizations, using the Bears as a primary example while also referencing other teams like the New York Giants and New York Jets.

Cycle of Poor Management: The hosts discuss how frequent coaching changes without addressing underlying cultural issues lead to repeated failures, regardless of coaching talent or player skill.

"Dysfunction has always been undefeated. You cannot outperform dysfunction." – [17:22] Jonas Knox
Culture Overhaul Necessity: Emphasizing the need for top-down cultural changes, they argue that without addressing organizational dysfunction, teams cannot achieve sustained success.

"You have to take a look at what your culture is and at the top, you have to address what the dysfunctional aspects and components are." – [24:18] Lavar Arrington
Examples of Successful Turnarounds: Comparisons are made to teams like the Pittsburgh Steelers and Detroit Lions, highlighting how leadership and cultural shifts can lead to improved performance despite previous dysfunctions.

"They are a functional organization because they're very close. They continue. They continue." – [30:19] Lavar Arrington

4. Potential Coaching Changes and Strategies

With Matt Eberflusse's exit, the discussion shifts to possible future coaching hires and strategic directions for the Bears.

Candidate Considerations: Potential candidates like Ben Johnson are mentioned, with considerations of how their coaching philosophies might align with the Bears' needs.

"Ben Johnson could be very attractive with Caleb there and the roster they have in place." – [36:32] Lavar Arrington
Avoiding Past Pitfalls: The hosts caution against replacing coaches without ensuring a cohesive and culturally compatible fit, stressing the importance of stability and clear organizational vision.

"Sometimes teams switch coaches too often and lose their identity." – [28:06] Lavar Arrington

5. Comparisons with Other NFL Teams & Coaching Success

Insights from the Packers' success and the Dolphins' strategic moves provide a contrast to the Bears' struggles, illustrating the importance of effective management and player-coach relationships.

Packers' Adaptive Strategies: The Packers' ability to integrate new players like Josh Jacobs and maintain a high-performance level despite changes is highlighted as a model of successful adaptation.

"They've drafted, they can flip out Jones for Jacobs, savage for McKinney, Barry for Hasley." – [39:38] Lavar Arrington
Dolphins' Organizational Adjustments: The Dolphins' strategic decisions, such as the management of quarterback positions, are analyzed as examples of how proactive changes can lead to competitive success.

"They continue to be competitive every year, they're in the conversation for what can they do in the playoffs every single year." – [65:10] Jonas Knox

6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a reflection on the necessity of addressing organizational dysfunction to unlock a team's true potential. The hosts reiterate the importance of cultural integrity and effective leadership in achieving sustainable success.

Final Insight: Emphasizing that without confronting and resolving internal issues, even the most talented teams and players cannot reach their full potential.

"If there's dysfunction at the level that we see it at with some of these organizations, it's just not possible to get positive results." – [61:17] Jonas Knox
Encouragement for Change: The conversation concludes with a call to action for NFL teams to prioritize cultural and organizational health to foster environments where players like Caleb Williams can thrive.

"Teams owe it to themselves to not limit themselves and to nurture their franchise players." – [09:14] Jonas Knox

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

"Caleb Williams had an, he should have called timeout or time." – Doug Gottlieb [13:54]
"Dysfunction has always been undefeated. You cannot outperform dysfunction." – Jonas Knox [17:22]
"They continue to be competitive every year, they're in the conversation for what can they do in the playoffs every single year." – Jonas Knox [65:10]
"If there's dysfunction at the level that we see it at with some of these organizations, it's just not possible to get positive results." – Jonas Knox [61:17]

This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers a comprehensive exploration of the challenges facing the Chicago Bears, the critical role of leadership in sports organizations, and the broader implications of organizational culture on team performance. Through expert analysis and candid discussions, the hosts provide listeners with valuable insights into the dynamics that drive success and failure in the NFL.

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Transcript

Doug Gottlieb (0:00)

This is Doug Gottlieb from All Ball with Doug Gottlieb.

Lavar Arrington (0:02)

Listen, I'm gonna get serious for a minute. The hate in our country is getting out of control. In fact, it's sadly at an all time high. But it's gonna take all of us to stop it. I mean, we're all on the same team in this country. So let's take a break from our hate so our team can regroup. We need to take a time out against hate. Visit standuptoallhate.org to help and join me in calling for timeout against hate by following at what's up with Hate or posting the blue square emoji.

Jonas Knox (0:30)

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Doug Gottlieb (0:37)

And compliments to the chef turns into compliments to your Platinum card. That's the powerful backing of American Express.

Jonas Knox (0:43)

Terms apply. Learn more@americanexpress.com with Amex. What's poppin Justin Jefferson here? Football is a lot of explosions, a lot of energy and attitude. It's a whole different vibe with these open earbuds. It's like you're in the moment, but also you can hear everything around you. You can be involved. To have good sound and to be so light on your ear means a lot to me putting that music into my ears. You feel good enough to go out there and play, you turn on that switch, no one can stop you.

Doug Gottlieb (1:13)

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Albert Breer (1:17)

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Doug Gottlieb (1:41)

Issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. pursuant to a license by MasterCard International Incorporated and may be used everywhere MasterCard is accepted.

Jonas Knox (1:46)

This is John Middlekoff from Three and.

Doug Gottlieb (1:48)

Out with John Middlekoff.

Lavar Arrington (1:49)

Picture this.

Jonas Knox (1:50)

Jonas Knox (6:20)

Yeah, he did. Shouts out and all respect to my homie Ephraim. He's a good dude. That's my guy. What up? But let me tell you something. Y'all was letting that man get hit too much and he got shell shocked, bro, like. And I think that Caleb is not going. I just don't think he has the mental makeup to become a shell shocked type of guy or finds himself with the yips because everything that took place. But what I will say is he continues to compete and he continues to try to find a way yet. And still. And I think that's always going to be the conversation about some, someone who could possibly be a franchise guy bonafide at the league level is they do it in spite of this. Bears team is not a good team. They have some pieces on both sides of the ball, but for some strange reason they have not found a way to be a better team than what they have been yet I look at this and I say, you got a doomsday. You, you got Keenan Allen, who finally, I mean, just beautiful, right? Just artistry. I would say you do have the makings of saying, okay, build out, build out, build out. Develop this year. Figure out what you need to do to put in place for, for Caleb. Like, you got a running back. Like if you keep swift and Swift stays healthy, you've got a running back, you've got receivers, you got a few offensive linemen, you need more, you have, you have linebackers, you have, you have a secondary, but you need more. If they can figure out how to build a formidable group of personnel around Caleb Williams, next year could be serious because this is a competitive team that can't win right now. They're not a non competitive team. This is not a team that you're looking at. And it's like the game we'll talk about after this one. It's not like you're looking at a New York Giants team that you really have nothing to stand on at all. This is a team where you could say, I feel really good about Caleb Williams. Just don't ruin it. Don't ruin it for the city. Don't ruin it for this, this, this player that is such a young, bright star. Don't ruin it. Do what you need to do. I don't care if it's a coaching change. Bring in somebody that he can relate to or that understands what's going on like they're out there. I mean, we'll talk about the Green Bay game. I have more and more of a respect for Matt LaFleur every single day, bro. Every single day. My, my, my buildup and growth of respect for what he does as a coach gets higher. Bring in a guy if this guy currently is not the guy to do it, cut the court. Now. Bring in a guy that can get the most, like a Dan Campbell that can get the most out of this team so that you can get the most out of Kayla Williams. It would be one of the biggest waste if Caleb Williams doesn't turn out to be one of the top quarterbacks in this league.

Lavar Arrington (24:18)

Yeah, I'd say this is maybe like the final draw, you know, and I, I think Lavar as, you know, like these things a lot of times can come down to where the locker room is on the coach. Right. And, you know, as things get, as the heat turns up, sometimes there's finger pointing and everything else. And, you know, I don't think any team, you know, even if things go really bad, wants to go through this sort of upheaval in the season where they fire an offensive coordinator, fire head coach a couple weeks later. However, I do think some of the things that happened at the end of the game last year, last, yesterday, play into this. And maybe the biggest thing to me at least, is where, you know, you have, is where you have a situation where clearly, you know, rookie quarterback was sort of struggling with what to do in the, in the final minute. And I, you know, you watch Caleb, you can see the wheels turning in his head. And I don't think that in a vacuum is the end of the world. What I do think is a problem is when Matt Eberflusse stepped to the podium afterwards and basically more or less absolved himself and his staff of blame. You know, I just think that's one of those situations where, you know, even if it was on Caleb as a rookie quarterback out there, it's on you for not managing that situation accordingly. You know, and so whether it's having the guy, you're having the guy more ready for the situation or knowing that he's going to struggle in that situation, so you call the timeout quicker, regardless of what it is, like, you can't point the finger at the player, you know, and I think that that's how you lose a team. And I'm not saying that either. Flutes lost the team complet. They obviously played hard yesterday and they have played hard this year in general, you know, but I think in a situation like that, that's where you start to look at it and say, okay, that was a mismanaged situation. It's not the time that's happened. We already pulled the trigger on changing offensive coordinators and now here we go. Like, you know, how is the coach going to react to it in the aftermath? And the aftermath it was, you know, I think was trying to be honest. You know, I don't think he was. I don't think there was ill intent. But you know, I think that, you know, if you're a player in that locker room, you look at it, you say, well, you're blaming a rookie. You know, it's not really the right thing to do in that situation.

Lavar Arrington (28:06)

Agree with you. Here's where I would, here's, you know, where my warning about that sort of idea comes in. I just feel like sometimes that's what bad franchises do and I hate to put it that way, but it's like I think sometimes temptation is when you go one way and it doesn't work to correct by going the other direction altogether. You know what I mean? Like, so we didn't like the defensive coach, so we're going to go with the offensive coach. We didn't like the first coach, so we're going to go with the experienced coach. We didn't like the players coach, so we're going to go with the hard ass. You know what I mean? Like, and I feel like teams do that enough times and you start to lose any sort of identity that the franchise might have or have an opportunity to build, you know. So, like, I just, you know, and again, like, you know, I think you can see that in the Bears, right? Like, so the Bears went, went from, you know, the offensive guru in Mark Tressman to then, to then go on with the experienced, you know, super bowl coach and John Fox, then back to the young offensive guru and Matt Maggie, then to the rising experienced defensive coach and then swing right back. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's, yeah, I think sometimes you do that enough times and it's like, like, well, you're not really doing anything. You know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, I agree with you that they need people around Caleb Williams to nurture him and bring him along. I also think you can kind of cut off your knees despite your face sometimes if you're just looking in one bucket. Like, I think the pairs owe it to themselves here to not like, limit themselves that way. And maybe you wind up on the offensive coach anyway. But last time I checked, like, Tom Brady had a pretty good career playing for Bill Belichick. Russell Wilson had a great decade playing for, for Pete Carroll. Lamar Jackson's had a, had a, had a great career to this point playing for John Harbaugh. You know what I mean? Like, so, I mean, you show me the evidence. I mean, yeah, you have Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes. So it's happened, you know, for sure. But I don't think there's overwhelming evidence that you have to do it that way to get it right with the quarterback.

Lavar Arrington (32:01)

Yeah, I mean there's a lot there. Lavar. Like I would say, like it's uglier right now in New York. I mean I think here, here's the one. I mean I think you have to give McCarthy some credit for them fighting the last couple of weeks the way they have, right. Like they've looked dead at points and I mean so to draw that sort of performance, you know, coming out of a really ugly loss on Monday night to Houston, what was that now, 10 days ago? 11 days ago. I mean I like, I think like just getting the effort they've gotten, you know, in Washington against a good commander's team and that then you know, on Thanksgiving and winning going away against the Giants, like I, that's without Dak Prescott. That's what CD Lamb beat up. So Micah Parsons probably still not at 100% right. Like, so I think you got to give Mike McCarthy some credit. Like it might not save his job because his contract's up and everything else, but you know, certainly I think he deserves, I think certainly I think you, you know, you look at him and he deserves some credit for that. I, you know, like I think the Giants right now, I think the intention is to keep Brian D. Ball and Joe Shane in charge. And I think it's part, partly an acknowledgement that after that first year they still had a long way to go and the roster still needed to be rebuilt in a very serious way. Now, you know, I think you look at, like, the foundation there, and there is a foundation in place with the left tackle, Andrew Thomas, receiver, Malik Neighbors, the guys in the defensive front. Dexter Lawrence might be the defensive player of the year, Brian Burns. So there's a foundation in place. I think the problem is you can counteract that with two things now, right? Number one, it's Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley and the decisions they made on those contracts and what those look like two years out, right? And then where the team is headed and the trajectory, right, like, so, you know, the marriage plan to be patient and take their time and, you know, give Joe Judge another year in 21. And then that press conference happened at the end and everything came unraveled. And so, like, I think that the Mares want to keep Dabal and Shane, but could it, like, really unravel and go the way that things went with Judge two or three years ago? I think that certainly could be the case. So, you know, again, like, if they can. If they can look confident and put an effort and win a couple games down the stretch, I think they'll be okay. If things unravel, you know, we could be talking about something else.

Lavar Arrington (39:01)

You know, and then, and then, and then bringing in Josh Jacob. They're now a team that can win a million different ways. You know what I mean? Like, so this is like an all weather football team that I think has a chance, like even on a day where maybe it's snowing sideways and Jordan Love throws for 175 yards because you can't do more than that in the pass game. The packers can win that game now. You know what I mean? Like, and I think it's, it's really a credit to a lot of people there because they've had good players there for a long time. But being able to see like the finishing pieces, like, you know, even like having the humility to say maybe we struck out on our first round safety, didn't strike out, but just we haven't gotten quite enough out of Darnell Savage. So like, let's let him go and go get Xavier McKinney. We really love Aaron Jones and everything. He's meant to our franchise, but God, there's an upgrade out there. Let's go get Josh Jacobs. You know, I just, I think those sorts of decisions are difficult decisions to make that they deserve a lot of credit for because those are the types of things that I think could put the over the top. Even firing Joe Berry, who Matt Muller is very close with, and bringing in Jeff Hasley, it's I think across the board, you know, they've done a really nice job of setting it up a certain way so their quarterback can be Superman, but he doesn't have to be Superman every week. And the win, and I think you saw it last night, I love the Jacob signing because I think it sort of fits with Barkley too. And that running back. I think, I think some of the smart front offices looked at it last year coming out of the season were like, you know, that position has been devalued to the point where it's becoming a value again. Going and getting one of those guys is actually great value now. And if you think about it, like, and this is the way the Eagles looked at it, getting Saquon Barkley cost them what it costs the Falcons to go get Darnell Mooney. Think about that, right?

Jonas Knox (51:33)

You cannot outperform dysfunction. I would challenge anyone who's listening to us have a conversation. How many times have you seen in an organization, a business, a relationship, anything, anything that you want to take a look at, of real substance that you're looking for an ROI on it, whether it be love, whether it be revenue, you know, money, whatever it is. Where have you ever seen success and skill and talent and even love, whatever it may be. When have you ever seen it outperform dysfunction? And listen, I lived in it as a player. And you start to try to make sense of it. It's almost like an abusive relationship when you're in a place that is so dysfunctional, because there's two ways of looking at it. One is self preservation, so you don't subscribe to all of the elements that play a part in what that dysfunction is. And you stay to yourself. You do your job to the best of your ability, and you try to keep that healthy amount of distance and space between where the dysfunction is coming from. But that doesn't help to cure or solve the dysfunction. And you're not going to get that person's best foot forward in those situations. Just not going to happen. Then there's the other side of it where it's like, and you may have heard this before, I can fix it. That's the biggest. The biggest one, right, is they need me. This job needs me. This team needs me. This. This relationship needs me. Whatever it is, I can fix it. And. And that, to me, is where it goes so wrong. And it has that, it has that abusive feel. It's like, why didn't you leave? Why, why didn't you say anything? Because I thought I could fix it. And you know what? It has always been undefeated. Dysfunction has always been undefeated. You cannot get positive results. You can't get positive outcomes. If there is dysfunction at the level that we see it at with some of these organizations, it's just not possible. So you can't sit there and say you're, you're confused or you're surprised that this is why what happened, or you already know. If you can look at an organization like the New York jets, it's a dysfunctional organization. I don't care who you have as a coach. I don't care who you draft as the players. I don't care who you get as free agencies, as the players. It's going to be a miss. Some way, somehow there's going to be a miss. So. So my challenge or what my sentiments would be, when you look at what the Bears have done and they've been dysfunctional for some time now, but now you have hope and Caleb Williams as a franchise guy. My challenge would be as an organization, as an owner of the organization, as the leads of the organization, you have to take a look at what your culture is and at the top, you have to address what the dysfunctional aspects and components of what you bring to the table. The Dallas Cowboys, even right now, with an organization that's been so historically amazing, in the New York Giants, they got to take a look at what that dysfunction has become and the culture that is created on the way down, all the way to your players that are going on the field. I'm watching it take place in Washington right now where there is a collective idea and body and belief that from the top, if they can change the culture of what this organization is from ownership and bring excitement and bring hope and bring belief and buy in and a connection to not only your employees within the building and the players, but also with the community itself in a very real way. You can indeed change the culture of. It doesn't happen overnight, doesn't happen quickly, but you can change the culture. These teams, the biggest issues are at the top and they're not being addressed because, well, why would you address yourself? Sometimes that's the hardest thing to do, is to find yourself in a situation where you have to address yourself and you'll find out which one of these. You know which teams are doing that. Seems like Detroit did that, like hands off.

Jonas Knox (58:30)

At some point when you look at these dysfunctional organizations, you see the long laundry list of major names that have been brought in, whether it's a coach or whether it's a player. You see this long list missed. And the results generally may vary just a little bit. Maybe this coach did make the playoffs. This coach didn't make the playoffs. I mean, look at what's going on in Miami. Is that dysfunction or not? I don't really know. Which means that it probably is. Maybe the clock has struck Midnight on Mike McDaniel and now he's turning into a pumpkin. Because that was not the look of a guy. Like we said, this team is really good with two TUA goes out. They're not really a good team. But now we got TUA back. They go ours. Because it's cold. Can be because it's cold. A lot of them guys didn't have no sleeves on their arms. Didn't look like it was cold enough where you couldn't get out there and do what you needed to do. It just didn't look good. When you look at these teams and they bring in a different coach, different coach, different coach, different coach, different players, different players. But you're seeing the same results, like they hit the same ceilings. Like, whether it be the record, whether it be the amount of accomplishment. Did they make it to the playoffs? Did they not? Did they win a divisional title? What are they? When you look at these teams, it'd be the same exact ones. Changing coaches, changing players, and getting the same results. They get the same exact results. So you could get mad at media for calling it out, calling it what they think it is, calling it what it may be. The bottom line is, is if you are paying attention to your organization and your organization is giving you, it's like, it's like meeting a person, right? If a person shows you who they are, you should believe them. If an organization shows you who they are, you should believe them. There's no reason as a fan to sit there and say, because I'm a fan of this team, I can look at it and it comes out and it plays out differently. That's not, that's not correct. If they've proven to you that this is how they do things, this is the way things go. You know, you guys are acting like, oh, when I was talking about the jets, like, the jets won't win 10 games, I said, the jets will not do double digit wins because the dysfunction is so high in New York that they will not make it to 10 wins. Not because they don't have the talent.

Jonas Knox (61:43)

We've done a lot of media and a lot of radio. The one thing that is funny to me is being successful. There's levels to it and there's degrees of it. And a lot of times people aren't happy with, with real success. They're not happy with real success. They have this delusion or, or this, this just maybe not, not living in reality of what a 10 win season represents, what a winning season represents. Like you look at, you know, the conversations that we've had historically on two pros and a cup of joe that you can catch. By the way, Eastern standard time at 6am to 9am we are filling in for Colin Cowherd. That's Jonas Knox. I'm Lavar Aaron. The one thing that we have, have discussed and, and have really talked about is in the college ranks, right? And I know it's different than the league, but in the college ranks you, you'll have day at Ohio State and he's under fire and he's undefeated. It's like, wait, hold on, what happened? Loses to Oregon. Ah, he's gotta go, he's gotta go. You lose one game, you lose the Michigan. Now he's gotta go. Oh, to Ohio State fans this means that he's gotta go because that's the game. Yeah, but what about all the other games that he's winning? You know when those games count, Jonas, when he starts losing them, they don't matter now because oh, he's, he's 11 0. He's 12 0. He gets the 12 and 1. Gotta fire him. Franklin and Penn State, first season and like who knows how long that they went undefeated on the road. They have no, no road loss losses. They have one loss at home and not one loss because it's to Ohio State. It's like he can't win the big game. It's the Big Ten, their strength of schedule. They don't play anybody. Da da, da, this, that. It's the Big Ten. They're playing against same teams that are in the conference that everybody else is playing against. And people have a problem with it when he loses one game while it is the one big game. It still is delusional to think that you should just expect a coach and a team to win that much. So sometimes you get what you want, but then you don't get what you really like in your mind. I wanted us to be undefeated. I wanted us to go to the Super Bowl. I wanted us to go to the championship. I wanted us to win it. There's only one team that can do it. And in the league, if you ain't cheering for Kansas City, you haven't really had enough. Imagine being a Ravens fan. How close are you? Imagine being a Bills fan. How close are you? But yet how far away are you?