Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – Best of The Herd (November 29, 2024)

The Herd with Colin Cowherd delivers an engaging and in-depth analysis of the latest developments in the NFL, focusing primarily on the Chicago Bears' tumultuous season, quarterback Caleb Williams' performance, and broader discussions on organizational culture within NFL teams. Hosted by Doug Gottlieb, Jonas Knox, and Lavar Arrington, with insights from guest Albert Breer, this episode provides listeners with thoughtful commentary and expert opinions on critical sports narratives.

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1. Chicago Bears' Controversial Coaching Change

The episode kicks off with an intense discussion about the Chicago Bears' recent decision to fire head coach Matt Eberflusse following a disappointing performance against the Detroit Lions.

• Performance Breakdown: The Bears faced an eighth consecutive loss, struggling particularly in the second half of the game. Despite initial dominance and a close scoreline of 16-0, the team couldn't maintain their momentum, leading to heightened scrutiny of the coaching strategies employed in critical moments.

  "The operation wasn't fast enough, and we didn't do a good job of executing." – [11:03] Lavar Arrington

• Immediate Aftermath: Albert Breer breaks the news of Eberflusse's termination, noting its unprecedented nature in the Bears' century-long history.

  "The Chicago Bears have just fired Matt Eberflusse as head coach following yesterday's disaster." – [26:52] Doug Gottlieb

• Leadership Impact: The conversation highlights how the late-game management and timeout decisions directly influenced the Bears' performance, emphasizing the coach's accountability in high-pressure scenarios.

  "Caleb Williams had an, he should have called timeout of time." – [13:54] Doug Gottlieb

2. Caleb Williams: Struggles and Potential

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around rookie quarterback Caleb Williams, exploring his on-field challenges and the potential impact of organizational support on his development.

• Performance Critique: Both hosts express concern over Williams' ability to handle pressure, particularly in late-game situations where he appears overwhelmed.

  "Caleb is not going. I just don't think he has the mental makeup to become a shell shocked type of guy." – [08:20] Jonas Knox

• Organizational Responsibility: The hosts debate whether the Bears' coaching staff provided sufficient support and preparation for a rookie quarterback facing intense defensive pressure.

  "It's on the coach for not managing that situation accordingly." – [11:25] Lavar Arrington

• Future Outlook: Despite current struggles, there remains optimism about Williams' potential if the Bears can rebuild a supportive and effective team structure around him.

  "If they can figure out how to build a formidable group of personnel around Caleb Williams, next year could be serious." – [08:45] Jonas Knox

3. Organizational Dysfunction in NFL Teams

The conversation delves into the broader issue of dysfunction within NFL organizations, using the Bears as a primary example while also referencing other teams like the New York Giants and New York Jets.

• Cycle of Poor Management: The hosts discuss how frequent coaching changes without addressing underlying cultural issues lead to repeated failures, regardless of coaching talent or player skill.

  "Dysfunction has always been undefeated. You cannot outperform dysfunction." – [17:22] Jonas Knox

• Culture Overhaul Necessity: Emphasizing the need for top-down cultural changes, they argue that without addressing organizational dysfunction, teams cannot achieve sustained success.

  "You have to take a look at what your culture is and at the top, you have to address what the dysfunctional aspects and components are." – [24:18] Lavar Arrington

• Examples of Successful Turnarounds: Comparisons are made to teams like the Pittsburgh Steelers and Detroit Lions, highlighting how leadership and cultural shifts can lead to improved performance despite previous dysfunctions.

  "They are a functional organization because they're very close. They continue. They continue." – [30:19] Lavar Arrington

4. Potential Coaching Changes and Strategies

With Matt Eberflusse's exit, the discussion shifts to possible future coaching hires and strategic directions for the Bears.

• Candidate Considerations: Potential candidates like Ben Johnson are mentioned, with considerations of how their coaching philosophies might align with the Bears' needs.

  "Ben Johnson could be very attractive with Caleb there and the roster they have in place." – [36:32] Lavar Arrington

• Avoiding Past Pitfalls: The hosts caution against replacing coaches without ensuring a cohesive and culturally compatible fit, stressing the importance of stability and clear organizational vision.

  "Sometimes teams switch coaches too often and lose their identity." – [28:06] Lavar Arrington

5. Comparisons with Other NFL Teams & Coaching Success

Insights from the Packers' success and the Dolphins' strategic moves provide a contrast to the Bears' struggles, illustrating the importance of effective management and player-coach relationships.

• Packers' Adaptive Strategies: The Packers' ability to integrate new players like Josh Jacobs and maintain a high-performance level despite changes is highlighted as a model of successful adaptation.

  "They've drafted, they can flip out Jones for Jacobs, savage for McKinney, Barry for Hasley." – [39:38] Lavar Arrington

• Dolphins' Organizational Adjustments: The Dolphins' strategic decisions, such as the management of quarterback positions, are analyzed as examples of how proactive changes can lead to competitive success.

  "They continue to be competitive every year, they're in the conversation for what can they do in the playoffs every single year." – [65:10] Jonas Knox

6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a reflection on the necessity of addressing organizational dysfunction to unlock a team's true potential. The hosts reiterate the importance of cultural integrity and effective leadership in achieving sustainable success.

• Final Insight: Emphasizing that without confronting and resolving internal issues, even the most talented teams and players cannot reach their full potential.

  "If there's dysfunction at the level that we see it at with some of these organizations, it's just not possible to get positive results." – [61:17] Jonas Knox

• Encouragement for Change: The conversation concludes with a call to action for NFL teams to prioritize cultural and organizational health to foster environments where players like Caleb Williams can thrive.

  "Teams owe it to themselves to not limit themselves and to nurture their franchise players." – [09:14] Jonas Knox

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "Caleb Williams had an, he should have called timeout or time." – Doug Gottlieb [13:54]
• "Dysfunction has always been undefeated. You cannot outperform dysfunction." – Jonas Knox [17:22]
• "They continue to be competitive every year, they're in the conversation for what can they do in the playoffs every single year." – Jonas Knox [65:10]
• "If there's dysfunction at the level that we see it at with some of these organizations, it's just not possible to get positive results." – Jonas Knox [61:17]

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This episode of The Herd with Colin Cowherd offers a comprehensive exploration of the challenges facing the Chicago Bears, the critical role of leadership in sports organizations, and the broader implications of organizational culture on team performance. Through expert analysis and candid discussions, the hosts provide listeners with valuable insights into the dynamics that drive success and failure in the NFL.

Transcript

[Doug Gottlieb]

This is Doug Gottlieb from All Ball with Doug Gottlieb.

[Lavar Arrington]

Listen, I'm gonna get serious for a minute. The hate in our country is getting out of control. In fact, it's sadly at an all time high. But it's gonna take all of us to stop it. I mean, we're all on the same team in this country. So let's take a break from our hate so our team can regroup. We need to take a time out against hate. Visit standuptoallhate.org to help and join me in calling for timeout against hate by following at what's up with Hate or posting the blue square emoji.

[Jonas Knox]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

And compliments to the chef turns into compliments to your Platinum card. That's the powerful backing of American Express.

[Jonas Knox]

Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] with Amex. What's poppin Justin Jefferson here? Football is a lot of explosions, a lot of energy and attitude. It's a whole different vibe with these open earbuds. It's like you're in the moment, but also you can hear everything around you. You can be involved. To have good sound and to be so light on your ear means a lot to me putting that music into my ears. You feel good enough to go out there and play, you turn on that switch, no one can stop you.

[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Albert Breer]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Jonas Knox]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Lavar Arrington]

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[Jonas Knox]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Jonas Knox]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Albert Breer]

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Jonas Knox]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Booyah.

[Jonas Knox]

Guess from all that cornbread. Hope y'all had a whole lot of cornbread out there, people. Yeah, I'm looking at some cornbread.

[Doug Gottlieb]

It is the Herd on Fox Sports Radio, but it's not Colin Cowherd. It's not Jason McIntyre, it's not Ryan music. There's no Greg Tuohy to be found. It's lavar Arrington. Jonas Knox with you here. We do a show called Two Pros and a Cup of Joe, which you can hear weekday mornings from 6 to 9am Eastern Time, 3 to 6am Pacific Time. Normally we do that show with Brady Quinn. Brady is not with us today, so it is Sticks and I keeping you company all the way up for the next three hours here on Fox Sports Radio. That's it.

[Jonas Knox]

Only three. I wish we could hang out with our peeps for longer than that, but we'll make it work. Yeah, you know, let's. Let's do what we can do.

[Doug Gottlieb]

So let's dive right into it because there is a. I'll just put it this way, whatever issues you have in your life and there could be a lot of things going wrong, just take.

[Jonas Knox]

Solace in the fact you're not a Beers fan.

[Doug Gottlieb]

That is correct.

[Jonas Knox]

Which is funny because only up till recently you would have said that about both these teams.

[Doug Gottlieb]

It's just now all of a sudden.

[Jonas Knox]

It'S cool to be a Lions fan.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I mean, Detroit Lions are staring an eighth loss in a row on Thanksgiving. Even in the midst of being the best team in ball potentially, they still.

[Jonas Knox]

Wanted to lose it.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Oh my God, they were trying. I mean, you got to halftime and the Bears had I think one or two first downs that they picked up on the final drive before half. Other than that, the Lions were dominating and it was only a two score game and it's 16 nothing and you're thinking, well, it's a little bit close. And then as this happens, then it gets real close.

[Jonas Knox]

Like, wait, wait, hold on a second. Like it feels like a blowout because you. But it's not a blowout because this.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Is the same thing that has gone on for this team and we've talked about it on our show at nauseam. Like, hey, there's a theme here. Caleb Williams figures things out late games.

[Jonas Knox]

Caleb Williams is good man, dude. And kind of sucks that he's in.

[Doug Gottlieb]

The situation he's in and he was rolling. And then somehow some way they figure out a way to crap it away and blow the game and cost themselves an opportunity to win.

[Jonas Knox]

All right, now let me ask you this before we go any further. Yeah. Because we've had multiple conversations about Caleb Williams and had he gone to a better organization, Caleb Williams is probably talked about much differently than how he is right now. He was under duress like all game. Like z'darius, all those guys. Like I didn't realize he's the most hit quarterback in the league, but he was, he was picking himself up the entire game. Yeah, that is a real thing. Like you can get hit so much as a quarterback that at some point you're, you're ruined. Who was that car? The first car. Not, not the David Carr was ruined by just getting. They hit him too much.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Well, you gotta ask Ephraim Salam his thoughts on that. Because Ephraim Salam, you know, he doesn't agree with that. Well, he just thinks, hey listen man, you know when, when a guy's scrambling and he runs out of bounds four yards behind the line of scrimmage, that counts as a sack given up on the offensive line.

[Jonas Knox]

Yeah.

[Doug Gottlieb]

He's all throw the ball away. So that doesn, you know.

[Jonas Knox]

Yeah, but they let that man get.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Hit way too much.

[Jonas Knox]

Yeah, he did. Shouts out and all respect to my homie Ephraim. He's a good dude. That's my guy. What up? But let me tell you something. Y'all was letting that man get hit too much and he got shell shocked, bro, like. And I think that Caleb is not going. I just don't think he has the mental makeup to become a shell shocked type of guy or finds himself with the yips because everything that took place. But what I will say is he continues to compete and he continues to try to find a way yet. And still. And I think that's always going to be the conversation about some, someone who could possibly be a franchise guy bonafide at the league level is they do it in spite of this. Bears team is not a good team. They have some pieces on both sides of the ball, but for some strange reason they have not found a way to be a better team than what they have been yet I look at this and I say, you got a doomsday. You, you got Keenan Allen, who finally, I mean, just beautiful, right? Just artistry. I would say you do have the makings of saying, okay, build out, build out, build out. Develop this year. Figure out what you need to do to put in place for, for Caleb. Like, you got a running back. Like if you keep swift and Swift stays healthy, you've got a running back, you've got receivers, you got a few offensive linemen, you need more, you have, you have linebackers, you have, you have a secondary, but you need more. If they can figure out how to build a formidable group of personnel around Caleb Williams, next year could be serious because this is a competitive team that can't win right now. They're not a non competitive team. This is not a team that you're looking at. And it's like the game we'll talk about after this one. It's not like you're looking at a New York Giants team that you really have nothing to stand on at all. This is a team where you could say, I feel really good about Caleb Williams. Just don't ruin it. Don't ruin it for the city. Don't ruin it for this, this, this player that is such a young, bright star. Don't ruin it. Do what you need to do. I don't care if it's a coaching change. Bring in somebody that he can relate to or that understands what's going on like they're out there. I mean, we'll talk about the Green Bay game. I have more and more of a respect for Matt LaFleur every single day, bro. Every single day. My, my, my buildup and growth of respect for what he does as a coach gets higher. Bring in a guy if this guy currently is not the guy to do it, cut the court. Now. Bring in a guy that can get the most, like a Dan Campbell that can get the most out of this team so that you can get the most out of Kayla Williams. It would be one of the biggest waste if Caleb Williams doesn't turn out to be one of the top quarterbacks in this league.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Well, the guy that you're referring to is Matt Eberfluss.

[Jonas Knox]

Eberflusse.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I almost said LaFleur.

[Jonas Knox]

Yeah, because you wanted it to be La Floor.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I did. Because they'd be 9 and 3. Instead they're 4 and 8 and they're looking at another top 10 draft pick based on how the season has gone. But Matt Eberflusse spoke today with the media in Chicago and tried to explain away what the hell was going. Final 30 seconds of that game with a timeout remaining.

[Jonas Knox]

What are you doing?

[Doug Gottlieb]

A sack?

[Jonas Knox]

Just call time out.

[Doug Gottlieb]

It just.

[Jonas Knox]

What are you doing? And for the record, Jonas, for the record, you got to think about this. If the receiver keeps running, that's six points. If you watch the play again, the receiver turns around, slows down. If the receiver keeps running, that's six points. That's six points.

[Doug Gottlieb]

It's the whole operation.

[Jonas Knox]

So the ball was where it needed to be. But I will say this. They should have called time out.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah. And so Matt Eberfeus.

[Jonas Knox]

And they should have been moving quicker than what they were on the play before. But go ahead.

[Doug Gottlieb]

So Matt Eberflusse spoke earlier about his decision to not call the time out there.

[Lavar Arrington]

We got sacked and it was, you.

[Jonas Knox]

Know, third and 26.

[Lavar Arrington]

You know, with the 36 seconds there.

[Jonas Knox]

Got sacked there at 32. And then our decision at that point.

[Lavar Arrington]

Was to be on the ball, hold our timeout, and get the playoff at.

[Jonas Knox]

15 to 10 seconds in that range, throw it into. Into the field goal range there and then call timeout, and then kick the game winner on fourth down.

[Lavar Arrington]

The operation wasn't fast enough, and we didn't do a good job of executing.

[Jonas Knox]

There in that moment.

[Lavar Arrington]

And that was the decision that we.

[Jonas Knox]

Made and went with during that time. I also know that the other option that you could have had was at.

[Lavar Arrington]

You know, 30 to 28 seconds.

[Jonas Knox]

You call a timeout there, and then.

[Lavar Arrington]

You have no timeouts. You throw the ball the same type.

[Jonas Knox]

Of play, throw it in there, and.

[Lavar Arrington]

Then you do your fast field goal into the game there and then kick the.

[Jonas Knox]

Kick the game or the game tire there to force it to overtime. So those are the two options that we had. We want the first option.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah.

[Jonas Knox]

It wasn't close.

[Lavar Arrington]

No.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, those were. Those were the two options. Did you know that at the time? Because I don't know that anybody do that at the time. Like it's.

[Jonas Knox]

They were moving so slow for one, for two. Like this is the last play of the game. Like, you knew that when they. When they were snapping the ball, it was like three seconds left, right? Something like that. Six seconds. Six seconds.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah.

[Jonas Knox]

Call timeout. You know, it's the last play of.

[Doug Gottlieb]

The game when he gets sacked. Call timeout.

[Jonas Knox]

Call timeout.

[Doug Gottlieb]

It's third down. You can run a quick play, get down and spike it. Just like you did the previous week when you set up for the tying field goal against Minnesota or run a play out of bounds.

[Jonas Knox]

What?

[Doug Gottlieb]

You just need a field goal to tie.

[Jonas Knox]

You saw proper clock manage against the W's.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Look, I'm telling you right now, I wonder if they're, if they're so scared of attempting a field goal based on what's happened the past couple of weeks. And they're like, yeah, we know three ties, but we're going to go for the win here. Like, I, I, I cannot explain.

[Jonas Knox]

Definitely went for the win.

[Doug Gottlieb]

What that was, I don't. And look, Caleb Williams had an, he should have called time out of time. He's culpable in this as well, too. But the coach is supposed to be the fail safe for a rookie quarterback, or any quarterback for that matter. He o, he's the guy running the team. He's standing there looking around and even Tony Romo, who hasn't prepped for a game in 30 years, is saying, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? Call timeout, Jim. Everybody's saying, watch it. Like I'm watching in shock. Like my son is rifling down a cinnamon roll faster than anything I've ever seen in my life. He looks like the fat guy off Stand by Me in the pie eating contest. And I've got to make sure he's not choking. But I'm looking at the Bears game going, what is happening here? I can't, I don't get it. None of it makes any sense.

[Jonas Knox]

That's what makes it make sense is the lack of sin.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Is it worse than the Hail Mary loss?

[Jonas Knox]

Because I think that's why I'm saying commanders showed you how to do it. Why did y'all do it the way they did it?

[Doug Gottlieb]

I swear to God, I think it's worse than the commanders.

[Jonas Knox]

They were close, they were close, they were close. And like you said, it wasn't a lot of time, but they only needed three points. They only needed three points. So I'm going to take my chances with trying to get the ball out of bounds, keep the ball going out of bounds for the couple plays that you have. Maybe you do a deep ball, maybe you do it deep ball to get into what would be perceived as field goal range. And you take a try at it and see if you could get it into overtime. That's, I mean, you were. No one was expecting this team to be that close to Detroit. And for what it's worth, it didn't feel like a game that was close. It just, it felt like they were getting dominated. They were getting handled up front. The running game was working they talked about Sonic and Knuckles, you know, the, the, the, the backfill being as impressive as it is for so cheesy.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Jesus.

[Jonas Knox]

Their shoes were kind of tight though. Like the Sonic the Hedgehog and the knuckle shoes. They were kind of tight.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Let's be cartoon characters. Like.

[Jonas Knox]

Well, their shoes. Okay, their shoes and their nicknames. I mean, right? Yeah. Earth, Wind and Fire for the Giants with Bradshaw and Jaco. Who was the third one on that branch? Bradshaw Jacobs, who was the third one? There was another one. I'm forgetting this and ah, man, what's his name? I played with him.

[Doug Gottlieb]

The other running back?

[Jonas Knox]

Yeah, I played with him. I can't remember it off the top of my head but they were Earth, Wind and Fire. Like the singing group. Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek, Derek. What's his last name? Come on man. Come on, come on. Lee.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Derek White.

[Jonas Knox]

No, no, no. Anyway, I'm just saying. Derek Ward. Shots out. I'm sorry. Derek D. Ward. Listen, that's a good backfield and that's a really good team and they are as good as advertised. I just felt as though that was interesting because the Bears had a strong opportunity to take advantage of a divisional opponent that is the top in the N and possibly get it to overtime or possibly even maybe after getting dominated, dominated the way that they did actually have a chance to win the game. And they, they, they blew the opportunity.

[Doug Gottlieb]

You know, made a great point that. So Olin Krutz guy you played against. Chicago Bear legend. So he was doing a post game show on the score in Chicago and he made a great point where he said I was watching the game and for the first time I realized, oh, the Bears have the playmaker at quarterback. Like if somebody's going to win, like if one of the quarterbacks was going to win that game for their team, it was going to be Caleb Williams.

[Jonas Knox]

Jared Goff is having a year, dog. No, no.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I'm not saying on the year in that game yesterday, Caleb Williams was the one making.

[Jonas Knox]

Caleb Williams making throws, making runs.

[Doug Gottlieb]

And then it just, it was getting.

[Jonas Knox]

Laced up though, bro.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Laced up. And then like he took that hit to the hip or whatever it was and then threw a touchdown pass right afterwards. He threw the dime to DJ Moore and on the sideline into the end zone, bro.

[Jonas Knox]

He was play was a dime for a touchdown. If everybody out there listening, you get an opportunity. Look at the last play of the Bears Detroit lion game. It was in position to be a touchdown catch. If that receiver runs to the point of where the ball is supposed to where the ball was. If he's running instead of turned around looking, turn around, look, go like get the ball. If he does that, that's six points. I mean, that's six points. So I'm with you there and I'm with Olin on that. But I ain't going. I'm not going to undersell what what Jared was bringing on the table. Jared was bringing it to the table yesterday too.

[Doug Gottlieb]

There's no underselling. But Detroit was rattled down the str.

[Jonas Knox]

They were. I don't think they could understand why the game was as close as it was the way they were playing, and.

[Doug Gottlieb]

The Bears bailed them out with another disaster. When it comes to situational football, which situational football is that or is that not on the coach?

[Jonas Knox]

Like, I mean, the situational football is on the coach.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Just ridiculous.

[Jonas Knox]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and.

[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Lavar Arrington]

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[Lavar Arrington]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

Should be Right now we turn it over to Albert Breer, Amazon NFL on Prime Insider Senior NFL Reporter, Lead content strategist at the MMQB on X ab. We know it's the game this weekend, but we do have some breaking news that I think you just tweeted out. According to sources in Chicago.

[Lavar Arrington]

Yeah, so the Bears are firing Matty Thomas Brown's going to be the interim coach. We're still getting this and as as we go along here. But yeah, I mean, I guess not a not a real shocker. It's actually interesting because the Bears coaches were set to, you know, get, you know, go through their meetings and everything Else and be off at noon Central today. So, so now it's done and Thomas Brown takes over for the time being. And, you know, obviously, a lot, a lot to come.

[Jonas Knox]

We just talked about this in the first segment. I mean, if you're going to cut the court, cut the court because you don't want to risk the actual deal of being one of the teams or a team that falls on the list of biggest waste of a player and of, of a Dr. Draft pick in the history of the game. And I think we all see the potential in Caleb Williams. AB I'm curious how much of this game had to do with him, you know, losing his job. Was this, do you, do you feel like this was something in the making or was this purely based upon the bad clock management at the end of the game and the fact that they could have possibly won against the top team in their division and in the conference on Thanksgiving?

[Lavar Arrington]

Yeah, I'd say this is maybe like the final draw, you know, and I, I think Lavar as, you know, like these things a lot of times can come down to where the locker room is on the coach. Right. And, you know, as things get, as the heat turns up, sometimes there's finger pointing and everything else. And, you know, I don't think any team, you know, even if things go really bad, wants to go through this sort of upheaval in the season where they fire an offensive coordinator, fire head coach a couple weeks later. However, I do think some of the things that happened at the end of the game last year, last, yesterday, play into this. And maybe the biggest thing to me at least, is where, you know, you have, is where you have a situation where clearly, you know, rookie quarterback was sort of struggling with what to do in the, in the final minute. And I, you know, you watch Caleb, you can see the wheels turning in his head. And I don't think that in a vacuum is the end of the world. What I do think is a problem is when Matt Eberflusse stepped to the podium afterwards and basically more or less absolved himself and his staff of blame. You know, I just think that's one of those situations where, you know, even if it was on Caleb as a rookie quarterback out there, it's on you for not managing that situation accordingly. You know, and so whether it's having the guy, you're having the guy more ready for the situation or knowing that he's going to struggle in that situation, so you call the timeout quicker, regardless of what it is, like, you can't point the finger at the player, you know, and I think that that's how you lose a team. And I'm not saying that either. Flutes lost the team complet. They obviously played hard yesterday and they have played hard this year in general, you know, but I think in a situation like that, that's where you start to look at it and say, okay, that was a mismanaged situation. It's not the time that's happened. We already pulled the trigger on changing offensive coordinators and now here we go. Like, you know, how is the coach going to react to it in the aftermath? And the aftermath it was, you know, I think was trying to be honest. You know, I don't think he was. I don't think there was ill intent. But you know, I think that, you know, if you're a player in that locker room, you look at it, you say, well, you're blaming a rookie. You know, it's not really the right thing to do in that situation.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Albert Breer joining us here on Fox Sports Radio. Amazon NFL on Prime Insider, senior NFL reporter, lead content strategist at the MMQB with the breaking news that the Chicago Bears have just fired Matt Eberfluss as head coach following yesterday's disaster. Disastrous ending. And they've never done this in the history of the organization. They've been around over a century and they've never fired a coach in season. And one of the conversations that was being had before the game was, well, if they get blown out and it looks really ugly, could there be a coaching change on Friday? I almost think, look, if they would have lost that game by, you know, 16, 17 points, whatever it was, Matt Eberflusse is still the coach. Just the optics of how that all played out just not great. And when you consider end of game situations like Washington, you know, the packers and then the next week they get a field goal blocked again from the same exact spot. It just felt like it was heading in this direction. My question to UAB would be what? Normally it feels like this is where they would go in the direction of an offensive minded coach for the permanent job. And you know, Ben Johnson's name's been out there. So there's some good candidates though.

[Lavar Arrington]

Agree with you. Here's where I would, here's, you know, where my warning about that sort of idea comes in. I just feel like sometimes that's what bad franchises do and I hate to put it that way, but it's like I think sometimes temptation is when you go one way and it doesn't work to correct by going the other direction altogether. You know what I mean? Like, so we didn't like the defensive coach, so we're going to go with the offensive coach. We didn't like the first coach, so we're going to go with the experienced coach. We didn't like the players coach, so we're going to go with the hard ass. You know what I mean? Like, and I feel like teams do that enough times and you start to lose any sort of identity that the franchise might have or have an opportunity to build, you know. So, like, I just, you know, and again, like, you know, I think you can see that in the Bears, right? Like, so the Bears went, went from, you know, the offensive guru in Mark Tressman to then, to then go on with the experienced, you know, super bowl coach and John Fox, then back to the young offensive guru and Matt Maggie, then to the rising experienced defensive coach and then swing right back. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's, yeah, I think sometimes you do that enough times and it's like, like, well, you're not really doing anything. You know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, I agree with you that they need people around Caleb Williams to nurture him and bring him along. I also think you can kind of cut off your knees despite your face sometimes if you're just looking in one bucket. Like, I think the pairs owe it to themselves here to not like, limit themselves that way. And maybe you wind up on the offensive coach anyway. But last time I checked, like, Tom Brady had a pretty good career playing for Bill Belichick. Russell Wilson had a great decade playing for, for Pete Carroll. Lamar Jackson's had a, had a, had a great career to this point playing for John Harbaugh. You know what I mean? Like, so, I mean, you show me the evidence. I mean, yeah, you have Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes. So it's happened, you know, for sure. But I don't think there's overwhelming evidence that you have to do it that way to get it right with the quarterback.

[Jonas Knox]

A.B. you mentioned a lot of coaches there that have had success with their quarterbacks. Another team, another two teams that were playing.

[Lavar Arrington]

I'll give you one more.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I'll give you one more.

[Lavar Arrington]

Lavar.

[Jonas Knox]

Give us one more.

[Lavar Arrington]

But I forgot because I don't want.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I don't want to be, I don't.

[Lavar Arrington]

Want to be disrespectful here, but another obvious one. Jim Mora and Tony Donji and Peyton Manning, Right?

[Jonas Knox]

Yeah. Okay, that's a good one.

[Lavar Arrington]

There you go. Anyway, anyway, go ahead.

[Jonas Knox]

Well, I was going to ask when. When you look at what took place with the Cowboys and the Giants yesterday, obviously in a way a feel good story for, for the Cowboys to be able to find their way to a two game winning streak after losing their franchise quarterback to injury. But then you look at the other side of it and it's like, wow, what a really, really bad team in the New York Giants. And looking at it, not many people would say day ball is a bad coach. In fact, many people lied the type of coach that day ball is. But is it has it come to a point of where maybe you know, looking at it from what their record is a two win record and they just lose again on, on Thanksgiving that his, his time is, is more so than now with, you know, McCarthy out of those two teams in NFC east, if you would have said to me which guy, which team is going to go for a new head coach come the off season, I would have said 100% it would be the Cowboys. While now it looks like it's going to be the New York Giants.

[Lavar Arrington]

Yeah, I mean there's a lot there. Lavar. Like I would say, like it's uglier right now in New York. I mean I think here, here's the one. I mean I think you have to give McCarthy some credit for them fighting the last couple of weeks the way they have, right. Like they've looked dead at points and I mean so to draw that sort of performance, you know, coming out of a really ugly loss on Monday night to Houston, what was that now, 10 days ago? 11 days ago. I mean I like, I think like just getting the effort they've gotten, you know, in Washington against a good commander's team and that then you know, on Thanksgiving and winning going away against the Giants, like I, that's without Dak Prescott. That's what CD Lamb beat up. So Micah Parsons probably still not at 100% right. Like, so I think you got to give Mike McCarthy some credit. Like it might not save his job because his contract's up and everything else, but you know, certainly I think he deserves, I think certainly I think you, you know, you look at him and he deserves some credit for that. I, you know, like I think the Giants right now, I think the intention is to keep Brian D. Ball and Joe Shane in charge. And I think it's part, partly an acknowledgement that after that first year they still had a long way to go and the roster still needed to be rebuilt in a very serious way. Now, you know, I think you look at, like, the foundation there, and there is a foundation in place with the left tackle, Andrew Thomas, receiver, Malik Neighbors, the guys in the defensive front. Dexter Lawrence might be the defensive player of the year, Brian Burns. So there's a foundation in place. I think the problem is you can counteract that with two things now, right? Number one, it's Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley and the decisions they made on those contracts and what those look like two years out, right? And then where the team is headed and the trajectory, right, like, so, you know, the marriage plan to be patient and take their time and, you know, give Joe Judge another year in 21. And then that press conference happened at the end and everything came unraveled. And so, like, I think that the Mares want to keep Dabal and Shane, but could it, like, really unravel and go the way that things went with Judge two or three years ago? I think that certainly could be the case. So, you know, again, like, if they can. If they can look confident and put an effort and win a couple games down the stretch, I think they'll be okay. If things unravel, you know, we could be talking about something else.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Albert Breer joining us here on Fox Sports Radio. Levar Arrington, Jonas Knox in for Colin Cowherd here on the Herd. So obviously, you know, the news of Matt Eberflusse being fired a short time ago and the conversation about, you know, other coaches that could be out after this season or possibly in season, if you were just to bet right now, like, if you gut feeling, obviously the big names that are out there, Mike Rabel, Bill Belichick, you know, Ben John, and potentially, if you've got to pick the landing spot for each of those, is Chicago in the mix for either of those? Belichick or Mike Vrabel and potentially Ben Johnson.

[Lavar Arrington]

So Ben Johnson, I think if you'd asked him a year ago, it might have been the job he wanted. I don't know if that's going to be the case. The same way. They're in division with them, obviously, you know, but. But I. But I know he had interest last year, so I think that's possible. And like, I do think they've got the infrastructure where he can just coach. I'm a little less certain with Belichick and Brable. I think the job in a vacuum would appeal to Belichick, and I was able to. The question is, like, you've got Kevin Warren as a team president, you got Ryan Poles as a general manager, like how does this whole thing look under variable, under Belichick? Because unless they're going to be able to shape the organization a certain way, they may be hesitant to go there, you know, so I think, you know, like you, you know, you look at a Ben Johnson who's, you know, ostensibly as a first time, first time head coach, gonna go there, Chester coach. And I think it really could be a very attractive job with Caleb there and the roster they have in place and everything else, you know, for guys like Vrabel and Belichick who may have like a more, I guess a more, a more global look at like how they want to set up the entire organization. And unless those guys are being, to make some, some bigger changes, it's just who's going to be on their coaching staff? I think they, they, they're, they, they could wind up balking at the idea of it.

[Jonas Knox]

AB I was watching this Dolphins packers game yesterday and I just started having all kinds of different conversations with myself, not, not with the people who were around me, just in my own mind and in my own head and I'm like thinking about gun coons and all these other individuals, you know, Leflore, and I'm like, okay, you know, let it be told the way, you know, Aaron Rodgers kind of aired out everything going into the season before his last season when he set things straight as it applied to him in the front office and then fast forward to his final season there and how everything kind of unfolded. If you're looking at what this Green Bay packers team looks like at 9 and 3, this is as good a team as it has looked, as the Green Bay packers, as it did when they made it to the divisional championship round. They literally are playing at that high of a level and you're doing it with a guy that you drafted to replace the guy who seemingly has been the, the one common denominator and there being confusion and, and fallout wherever it is that he's at. What type of, what, what's the, the thought process on them getting the running back, getting rid of Aaron Jones, which I thought was, man, that's a, that's a tough one to, to kind of recover from, but nonetheless you do it and then you, you get the type of, of, you know, the type of production you're getting from Josh Jacobs. It just seems like they're operating at a super, super high level, maybe even higher than what it was when Aaron Rodgers is there. How is that being perceived by the, by the media, by the, the, you know, the inner workings of the League lavar.

[Lavar Arrington]

I think like the coolest thing about it is like, so like last year, I'd say a big part of their story was Jordan Love got high at the end of the year and they were able to go and, you know, get in these shootouts and win in that sort of setting. It's great to see your young quarterback do that. To me, what's really cool about what's happened since is between the hire of Jeff Halfley to run the defense, some of the moves they made on that side of the ball. Signing Xavier McKinney was a huge one.

[Jonas Knox]

Very big. Yep.

[Lavar Arrington]

You know, and then, and then, and then bringing in Josh Jacob. They're now a team that can win a million different ways. You know what I mean? Like, so this is like an all weather football team that I think has a chance, like even on a day where maybe it's snowing sideways and Jordan Love throws for 175 yards because you can't do more than that in the pass game. The packers can win that game now. You know what I mean? Like, and I think it's, it's really a credit to a lot of people there because they've had good players there for a long time. But being able to see like the finishing pieces, like, you know, even like having the humility to say maybe we struck out on our first round safety, didn't strike out, but just we haven't gotten quite enough out of Darnell Savage. So like, let's let him go and go get Xavier McKinney. We really love Aaron Jones and everything. He's meant to our franchise, but God, there's an upgrade out there. Let's go get Josh Jacobs. You know, I just, I think those sorts of decisions are difficult decisions to make that they deserve a lot of credit for because those are the types of things that I think could put the over the top. Even firing Joe Berry, who Matt Muller is very close with, and bringing in Jeff Hasley, it's I think across the board, you know, they've done a really nice job of setting it up a certain way so their quarterback can be Superman, but he doesn't have to be Superman every week. And the win, and I think you saw it last night, I love the Jacob signing because I think it sort of fits with Barkley too. And that running back. I think, I think some of the smart front offices looked at it last year coming out of the season were like, you know, that position has been devalued to the point where it's becoming a value again. Going and getting one of those guys is actually great value now. And if you think about it, like, and this is the way the Eagles looked at it, getting Saquon Barkley cost them what it costs the Falcons to go get Darnell Mooney. Think about that, right?

[Doug Gottlieb]

Wow.

[Lavar Arrington]

Now, Darnell Mooney is a good player, don't get me wrong. And it's really valuable to Atlanta this year and everything else, but he's your second or third receiver, and Saquon Barkley touches the ball 300 times in a year. You know what I mean? Like, so it's just. I think it's like. It's like the ability to make those adjustments on the fly to flip out Jones for. For Jacobs, to flip out Savage, for McKinney, to flip out Barry for. For. For Hasley. And then ultimately, you know, like, being willing to kind of come off of some. Some things that. Some. Some. Some preconceived notions that people in the league might have about certain positions, I think is what put the packers where they are today.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah, it's like the top three leading rushers in the NFL. Barkley, Henry, Jacobs. All guys whose former team was like, nah, we're good here. Okay?

[Jonas Knox]

Right.

[Lavar Arrington]

And when you think about it, and it's like, if you think about it and it's like, what are they paying for those guys? I mean. I mean, like. Like. Like Henry's making 8 million bucks. Like that. Like, they're back of quarterbacks who make that. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. It's crazy when you think about it, because, like, everybody's gotten so locked into, well, edge rusher, you know, left tackle, receiver, corner quarterback, like. And then just don't worry about anything else. Well, you know, somewhere along the line, the pay at those positions dropped to the point where it's like, okay, all of a sudden, like, this is a really good. Xavier McKinney is another one at safety. You know what? The safety market fell out, so the packers are able to get good there because the rest of the league doesn't value him properly. You know, I think it's a really interesting. Interesting thing that happened this off season. I think it certainly benefited both the packers and Eagles.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Albert Breer with the breaking news of Matty Brieflouse being fired. We didn't have any time to get to the game this weekend, but we wanted to send you off with this just to try and get you fired up.

[Jonas Knox]

I hope you all lose.

[Lavar Arrington]

How about this? How about this? So my seats, I believe, are, like, almost right on Top of the fox, set on the field.

[Albert Breer]

All right.

[Jonas Knox]

Nice.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Hey, you better. You better harass the hell out of Brady Quinn tomorrow, please.

[Lavar Arrington]

Yeah, like, maybe I see it's too late, but I would have had you guys send me, like, Brady Quinn sucks T shirts or something. I could have put all my buddies in them.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Oh, I've got, I've got a ton of those. Multiple colors. We could have. We could have decked you all out perfectly. Albert.

[Jonas Knox]

Thanks. Hoping you guys lose, A.B. but good luck to you.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Thanks, A.B. we appreciate it.

[Jonas Knox]

All right.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Thanks, guys.

[Jonas Knox]

You're welcome. I. I wish you luck. But. But on. On the inside, AB I'm hoping you guys lose.

[Lavar Arrington]

I will never root for Michigan. Lamar.

[Jonas Knox]

It's bad practice, I fear. I. I feel you there. I feel you there. But, you know, we get that big Ten opportunity against Oregon you guys didn't want to do.

[Lavar Arrington]

No, no, no. I understand you on that, right?

[Jonas Knox]

There you go. All right, enjoy. Hope you had great Thanksgiving.

[Doug Gottlieb]

There he is, the great Al with us here on FOX Sports Radio.

[Jonas Knox]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Albert Breer]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Lavar Arrington]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

We were wondering, all right, here on a Black Friday.

[Jonas Knox]

Dang, how'd you say it? What type of Friday?

[Doug Gottlieb]

Black Friday Tang.

[Jonas Knox]

Or as Rob Parker would say, what would he say?

[Doug Gottlieb]

And by the way, this is Rob and I's jokes. Just everybody's clear.

[Jonas Knox]

Oh, no. As Rob Parker would say, black Friday.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Well, I don't know about you, but.

[Jonas Knox]

Every Friday is Black Friday for me. Oh, my gosh.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Which I have to. I owe him a text later because that's. That's our yearly tradition. But we were waiting to see whether or not there was going to be any news out of the NFL following the games yesterday. We've got another one coming up later on that. We're going to get into the Raiders and the Chiefs at some point. And the news is not great for Matt Erfluss. He was fired by the Chicago Bears less than an hour ago after that disaster of a performance by the Bears towards the end of that game against the Detroit Lions yesterday. So the first time in the history of the franchise the Bears are firing a head coach in season. And here's the best part about that whole story.

[Jonas Knox]

What's the best part? Geez, there's the best part.

[Doug Gottlieb]

How about the fact that they let Matty reflect, do a zoom call with the media and then fired him after the zoom call with the media?

[Jonas Knox]

Well, we're in. We're in showbiz. We're in showbiz. They tell you let them finish the show before you let them go. They gonna fire you before the show, even though you got one more show to do.

[Doug Gottlieb]

He shows up.

[Jonas Knox]

They gonna hit you after you're done.

[Doug Gottlieb]

He shows up to talk to the media on the zoom call. And the media's like, are you planning on being the coach? And Matt Erfluss says, yeah, listen, I'm. I' Operations are normal. I'm going to be the head coach as we get ready for San Francisco. And then, like an hour and a half later, the Bears like, hey, Matt, you got a second?

[Jonas Knox]

Yeah.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Riverside.

[Jonas Knox]

Riverside. Look, you could get an early start on your. Your holiday gift shopping or your vacation time. Like, you know, you. We're going to go in a different direction.

[Lavar Arrington]

Heck, man.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I mean, Keenan Allen, I thought, had the most telling statement following the game yesterday when he said the following. I felt like we as players put ourselves in a position to win as players. When you separate that fam, not us.

[Jonas Knox]

As a team, like us as players.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Malik Neighbors probably saw that and went like, damn, that's pretty good. I should use that the next time I air out the organization or my head coach. But it's just not a great situation. It wasn't a great situation. And now the conversation becomes, where do you. Where do you turn to next? And look, Jim Harbaugh wanted the job last year. Like, that's, I mean, like, everybody's known that. Like, that's one of his. That was one of his spots. Yeah, because he played. They drafted him. And so that was an opportunity. And now they're going to be looking to try and bring somebody else in, and they're going to go with Thomas Brown, the OC there. I just. You hope. And we talked a little bit with Albert Breer about this last hour. Like you would hope that they don't do the whole. Well, last coach was a defensive coach. Now we're going to do an offensive coach. And now we're going to. But it just feels like with this organization, and you've talked about it with the jets, dysfunction is your MVP dysfunction. And there is dysfunctional.

[Jonas Knox]

You cannot outperform dysfunction. I would challenge anyone who's listening to us have a conversation. How many times have you seen in an organization, a business, a relationship, anything, anything that you want to take a look at, of real substance that you're looking for an ROI on it, whether it be love, whether it be revenue, you know, money, whatever it is. Where have you ever seen success and skill and talent and even love, whatever it may be. When have you ever seen it outperform dysfunction? And listen, I lived in it as a player. And you start to try to make sense of it. It's almost like an abusive relationship when you're in a place that is so dysfunctional, because there's two ways of looking at it. One is self preservation, so you don't subscribe to all of the elements that play a part in what that dysfunction is. And you stay to yourself. You do your job to the best of your ability, and you try to keep that healthy amount of distance and space between where the dysfunction is coming from. But that doesn't help to cure or solve the dysfunction. And you're not going to get that person's best foot forward in those situations. Just not going to happen. Then there's the other side of it where it's like, and you may have heard this before, I can fix it. That's the biggest. The biggest one, right, is they need me. This job needs me. This team needs me. This. This relationship needs me. Whatever it is, I can fix it. And. And that, to me, is where it goes so wrong. And it has that, it has that abusive feel. It's like, why didn't you leave? Why, why didn't you say anything? Because I thought I could fix it. And you know what? It has always been undefeated. Dysfunction has always been undefeated. You cannot get positive results. You can't get positive outcomes. If there is dysfunction at the level that we see it at with some of these organizations, it's just not possible. So you can't sit there and say you're, you're confused or you're surprised that this is why what happened, or you already know. If you can look at an organization like the New York jets, it's a dysfunctional organization. I don't care who you have as a coach. I don't care who you draft as the players. I don't care who you get as free agencies, as the players. It's going to be a miss. Some way, somehow there's going to be a miss. So. So my challenge or what my sentiments would be, when you look at what the Bears have done and they've been dysfunctional for some time now, but now you have hope and Caleb Williams as a franchise guy. My challenge would be as an organization, as an owner of the organization, as the leads of the organization, you have to take a look at what your culture is and at the top, you have to address what the dysfunctional aspects and components of what you bring to the table. The Dallas Cowboys, even right now, with an organization that's been so historically amazing, in the New York Giants, they got to take a look at what that dysfunction has become and the culture that is created on the way down, all the way to your players that are going on the field. I'm watching it take place in Washington right now where there is a collective idea and body and belief that from the top, if they can change the culture of what this organization is from ownership and bring excitement and bring hope and bring belief and buy in and a connection to not only your employees within the building and the players, but also with the community itself in a very real way. You can indeed change the culture of. It doesn't happen overnight, doesn't happen quickly, but you can change the culture. These teams, the biggest issues are at the top and they're not being addressed because, well, why would you address yourself? Sometimes that's the hardest thing to do, is to find yourself in a situation where you have to address yourself and you'll find out which one of these. You know which teams are doing that. Seems like Detroit did that, like hands off.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yep.

[Jonas Knox]

We Let. We let Dan Campbell come in. He came in with a very, very defined vision of what he wanted the, the culture of this organization to be on down to its players. And it's changed here in LA with the Chargers. Seems as though they brought in a guy in hardball. They trust what he's. His vision is, they trust how he wants the culture to be and they've allowed him to do it. And you can see it in the players and how they play. You can see it in the results. And then that carries over. Look at the fan base and how it's growing for this Detroit Lions team.

[Doug Gottlieb]

There's a overflow, they travel.

[Jonas Knox]

Come on, man.

[Doug Gottlieb]

And by the way, you call, and I always reference this because I think it's important you called a Lions Browns game when Dan Campbell was there his first year. And that ended up being Baker Mayfield's.

[Jonas Knox]

Last year, I believe.

[Doug Gottlieb]

And so there's a lot in that conversation. But I always, I'm fascinated by that because that was really the beginning of. Listen, we're building something. Everybody laughed at Dan Campbell. Everybody bite them kneecaps on the way back up. Racing helmets. And he does double venti red eyes. He does two a day and like all these just like, oh, he's one of these other guys. And then you've just slowly seen they build, they build, they draft. Well, Jared Goff's completely, you know, rejuvenated his career. He's playing the best football potentially of his career. And this is the guy who went to a Super bowl once. Like this idea that if the Bears think that, all right, we got rid of Matt Eberflu, all right, now, now everything's going to be good here, dude. They've since the 1985 Bears, they've won six playoff games. That was 40 years ago. Like this is not just a Matt Eberflusse's problem. To your point, it rolls downhill. That's been going on a long ass time.

[Jonas Knox]

At some point when you look at these dysfunctional organizations, you see the long laundry list of major names that have been brought in, whether it's a coach or whether it's a player. You see this long list missed. And the results generally may vary just a little bit. Maybe this coach did make the playoffs. This coach didn't make the playoffs. I mean, look at what's going on in Miami. Is that dysfunction or not? I don't really know. Which means that it probably is. Maybe the clock has struck Midnight on Mike McDaniel and now he's turning into a pumpkin. Because that was not the look of a guy. Like we said, this team is really good with two TUA goes out. They're not really a good team. But now we got TUA back. They go ours. Because it's cold. Can be because it's cold. A lot of them guys didn't have no sleeves on their arms. Didn't look like it was cold enough where you couldn't get out there and do what you needed to do. It just didn't look good. When you look at these teams and they bring in a different coach, different coach, different coach, different coach, different players, different players. But you're seeing the same results, like they hit the same ceilings. Like, whether it be the record, whether it be the amount of accomplishment. Did they make it to the playoffs? Did they not? Did they win a divisional title? What are they? When you look at these teams, it'd be the same exact ones. Changing coaches, changing players, and getting the same results. They get the same exact results. So you could get mad at media for calling it out, calling it what they think it is, calling it what it may be. The bottom line is, is if you are paying attention to your organization and your organization is giving you, it's like, it's like meeting a person, right? If a person shows you who they are, you should believe them. If an organization shows you who they are, you should believe them. There's no reason as a fan to sit there and say, because I'm a fan of this team, I can look at it and it comes out and it plays out differently. That's not, that's not correct. If they've proven to you that this is how they do things, this is the way things go. You know, you guys are acting like, oh, when I was talking about the jets, like, the jets won't win 10 games, I said, the jets will not do double digit wins because the dysfunction is so high in New York that they will not make it to 10 wins. Not because they don't have the talent.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I meant 10 wins over the span of two seasons. So like, just to be clear, that.

[Jonas Knox]

Might be a stretch too. That might not be. That might. That might, might be a stretch too.

[Doug Gottlieb]

All I'm saying is the preseason games count.

[Jonas Knox]

Why expect, why expect that, that Aaron Rodgers is going to be the catalyst of change in a dysfunctional organization? And now you found out, now you figured out that that is not the case.

[Doug Gottlieb]

The Bears fired Lovey Smith after he went 10, 6. Like, like they, they fired him after he went 10 and 6. Remember how everybody and I Know this, people in Chicago couldn't wait to get rid of Matt Nagy. They couldn't wait. He had to go. He had no idea what he was doing. He's, he's ruining this organization. I don't know, man. He finished with a winning record and he took him to the playoffs twice.

[Jonas Knox]

We've done a lot of media and a lot of radio. The one thing that is funny to me is being successful. There's levels to it and there's degrees of it. And a lot of times people aren't happy with, with real success. They're not happy with real success. They have this delusion or, or this, this just maybe not, not living in reality of what a 10 win season represents, what a winning season represents. Like you look at, you know, the conversations that we've had historically on two pros and a cup of joe that you can catch. By the way, Eastern standard time at 6am to 9am we are filling in for Colin Cowherd. That's Jonas Knox. I'm Lavar Aaron. The one thing that we have, have discussed and, and have really talked about is in the college ranks, right? And I know it's different than the league, but in the college ranks you, you'll have day at Ohio State and he's under fire and he's undefeated. It's like, wait, hold on, what happened? Loses to Oregon. Ah, he's gotta go, he's gotta go. You lose one game, you lose the Michigan. Now he's gotta go. Oh, to Ohio State fans this means that he's gotta go because that's the game. Yeah, but what about all the other games that he's winning? You know when those games count, Jonas, when he starts losing them, they don't matter now because oh, he's, he's 11 0. He's 12 0. He gets the 12 and 1. Gotta fire him. Franklin and Penn State, first season and like who knows how long that they went undefeated on the road. They have no, no road loss losses. They have one loss at home and not one loss because it's to Ohio State. It's like he can't win the big game. It's the Big Ten, their strength of schedule. They don't play anybody. Da da, da, this, that. It's the Big Ten. They're playing against same teams that are in the conference that everybody else is playing against. And people have a problem with it when he loses one game while it is the one big game. It still is delusional to think that you should just expect a coach and a team to win that much. So sometimes you get what you want, but then you don't get what you really like in your mind. I wanted us to be undefeated. I wanted us to go to the Super Bowl. I wanted us to go to the championship. I wanted us to win it. There's only one team that can do it. And in the league, if you ain't cheering for Kansas City, you haven't really had enough. Imagine being a Ravens fan. How close are you? Imagine being a Bills fan. How close are you? But yet how far away are you?

[Doug Gottlieb]

Yeah.

[Jonas Knox]

So I don't know. Dysfunction. They'll get rid of you. Functional. You start to find it, you get better. So to me, it says that the Buffalo Bills is a functional organization. You know why? Because they're very close. And yet they continue. I thought they hit their ceiling. They didn't hit their ceiling. They look like they're getting better, so that's a functional organization.

[Doug Gottlieb]

I always defended when, you know, the Bengals, you know, were, you know, looking around and they're looking at coaches and they're, you know, trying to decide whether or not they want to keep Marvin Lewis. And I always defended Marvin Lewis for this because they're like, oh, he can't win a playoff game. Yeah, but they're there every year. Every year.

[Jonas Knox]

I mean, that's what's going on in Pittsburgh right now. People be wanting Mike Tomlin out of there every year. It's a functional organization. They're competitive every year. Whether you thought they were frauds or not, they are in it every single year. In the conversation for the. For the AFC north. And they're in the conversation for what can they do in the playoffs every single year, but yet it's not good enough. Yeah, you gotta. You gotta be realistic on what you want your ROI to be as a fan. And I think that's what it ultimately comes down to.

[Albert Breer]

One more herd.

[Jonas Knox]

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[Lavar Arrington]

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[Jonas Knox]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Albert Breer]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Jonas Knox]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

And they don't even see what's coming at them.

[Albert Breer]

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[Jonas Knox]

We got the table. Yep.

[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Jonas Knox]

Hard to get Reservations open up.

[Lavar Arrington]

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[Jonas Knox]

Last thanks to Amex Platinum, the last.

[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Jonas Knox]

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[Doug Gottlieb]

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[Jonas Knox]

What's poppin Justin Jefferson here. Football is a lot of explosions, a lot of energy and attitude. It's a whole different vibe with these open earbuds. It's like you're in the moment, but also you can hear everything around you can be involved. To have good sound and to be so light on your ear means a lot to me putting that music into my ears. You feel good enough to go out there and play. You turn on that switch, no one can stop you. For more, check out Bose.com hey, it's.

[Doug Gottlieb]

Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. The holiday season is here. That means that it is time to start doing your holiday shopping. This holiday season, shop in store or online and get great savings on holiday favorites like Royal Dansk Danish Butter Cookies, a Signature Select Light Up Retro Ceramic Tree, Sylvania Mini Lights, Village candles and multiple scents, Pokemon, Scarlet and Violet card sets and more. Offer ends December 3rd. Restrictions apply. Promotions may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Albert Breer]

You're at a bar looking for a new beer when you smell a citrusy aroma.

[Jonas Knox]

It smells like sunshine and oranges.

[Albert Breer]

You see the bartender pouring a beer that looks refreshing. Only one problem. You have no clue how to pronounce the name Jayalai.

[Jonas Knox]

Is that even English?

[Albert Breer]

The bartender is now heading your way as you're about to order nice cold Jayalai. You hear, can I get a highlight? High lie the best beer you probably can't pronounce.