Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Title: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Episode: Best of The Herd
Release Date: July 25, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd (iHeartPodcasts and The Volume)
Description: A thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.

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Introduction to Key Topics

The episode dives deep into the current state of NFL quarterbacks, focusing on Caleb Williams' recent performance challenges during training camp. Hosts J. Mac and Colin Cowherd, along with guest Dave Wanstadt, dissect the implications of Caleb's struggles and what it means for his future with the team.

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Caleb Williams' Struggles in Training Camp

Timestamp: [03:04] – [07:13]

J. Mac opens the discussion by highlighting Caleb Williams' inconsistent performance over three consecutive days in training camp. Williams has shown issues with deep balls, red zone attempts, and overall game management.

J. Mac: "Three days in a row, it's gotten a little bumpy for Caleb Williams."

Dave Wanstadt weighs in, drawing parallels to other quarterbacks like Drew Brees and Bo Nix, emphasizing that while early struggles don't always predict future success, they are concerning for a quarterback with generational expectations.

Notable Quote:

Dave Wanstadt: "Disastrous first dates rarely become great."

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Comparing Modern Quarterbacks to Streaming Shows

Timestamp: [07:13] – [14:38]

J. Mac presents an analogy comparing current quarterbacks to streaming shows, stressing the limited time franchises have to evaluate talent. Unlike the past, where quarterbacks like Eli Manning were given multiple seasons to develop, today's teams demand rapid improvement.

Notable Quote:

J. Mac: "If you're not getting me by the second episode early, I'm out."

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Ben Johnson’s Coaching Challenges

Timestamp: [14:38] – [21:27]

The conversation shifts to Ben Johnson, the new head coach, questioning his ability to transition from an offensive coordinator to a head coach amidst Caleb Williams' struggles. They discuss Johnson's reputation and whether his innovative offensive strategies might be too unconventional for the current team dynamics.

Notable Quote:

J. Mac: "Ben Johnson is not getting plays in the footwork... he's throwing from a different spot."

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LeBron James vs. Michael Jordan: A Legacy Comparison

Timestamp: [04:28] – [18:44]

In an extended segment, Colin Cowherd and J. Mac delve into the contrasting legacies of LeBron James and Michael Jordan. They argue that while Jordan's journey was filled with struggles and triumphs that endeared him to fans, LeBron's transactional approach to team changes makes it harder for fans to connect with him on the same emotional level.

Notable Quotes:

Colin Cowherd: "LeBron has been transactional. That's the downside to being the best basketball opportunist ever."
J. Mac: "We fell in love with Michael as part of our sports love story. LeBron has simply been transactional."

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Andrew Barry’s Stance on Quarterback Accountability

Timestamp: [23:05] – [39:23]

Andrew Barry, the sharp general manager of the Cleveland Browns, is commended for holding quarterbacks to higher standards. When addressing Chadoua Sanders’ speeding tickets, Barry emphasized the importance of personal responsibility, especially for a quarterback who represents the team.

Notable Quote:

Andrew Barry: "Quarterbacks are supposed to put out fires, not start them."

J. Mac and Colin express appreciation for Barry's no-nonsense approach, contrasting it with media tendencies to pander rather than call out issues directly.

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Joe Burrow’s Future with the Bengals

Timestamp: [40:37] – [43:53]

The hosts discuss Joe Burrow's potential trajectory, drawing comparisons to Matt Stafford. Concerns are raised about the Bengals' ability to support Burrow with adequate defense and strategic planning, fearing that distractions like player holdouts could derail his career, despite his talent.

Notable Quote:

Colin Cowherd: "It's a distraction. The football team is distracted."

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Nick Saban and Bill Belichick: Coaching Longevity

Timestamp: [43:53] – [48:46]

The episode touches on legendary coaches like Nick Saban and Bill Belichick, discussing their potential retirement plans and adaptability. Colin speculates that Saban is unlikely to return to college coaching, given the financial and logistical challenges, while Belichick continues to thrive by embracing new experiences outside of coaching.

Notable Quote:

Colin Cowherd: "I don't see Nick getting back into it."

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Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the nuanced discussions about leadership, accountability, and the evolving landscape of professional sports. They emphasize the importance of strong ownership and strategic decision-making in shaping the future of teams and their star players.

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Notable Quotes Summary

• Dave Wanstadt: "Disastrous first dates rarely become great." ([04:28])
• J. Mac: "If you're not getting me by the second episode early, I'm out." ([07:13])
• Andrew Barry: "Quarterbacks are supposed to put out fires, not start them." ([23:25])
• Colin Cowherd: "LeBron has been transactional. That's the downside to being the best basketball opportunist ever." ([04:28])

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Conclusion

The "Best of The Herd" episode offers a comprehensive analysis of current challenges in the NFL, highlighting quarterback performance, coaching dynamics, and the intricacies of team management. Through insightful discussions and expert opinions, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the factors influencing today's top sports stories.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[J. Mac]

You know the big guys.

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[J. Mac]

Be sure to catch us live every.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[J. Mac]

Here we go. It is a Friday. Oh, and there's already news breaking, my kind of news. All right, former Bears coach Dave Wanstadt joins us in announce. It is another bumpy day J. Mac for Caleb Williams. So we know in OTAs, Ben Johnson got, you know, a little miffed. Couldn't get the play into the huddle. They're asking him to do some different stuff sometimes under center. A lot of those coaches like that. Sean Payton likes that. So are you ready for the new news, J. Mac?

[Dave Wanstadt]

Lay it on me, big guy.

[J. Mac]

Okay, so yesterday, three days ago, he struggled. Ben Johnson was furious. Couldn't get get to play in and out. Yesterday, struggled with a deep ball. Today, Caleb Williams, two red zone picks, one tip ball, another one horrible pass. So three days in a row, it's gotten a little bumpy for Caleb Williams. So people say. I hear athletes say this. I hear people say that you can't take a lot from camp. You can see red flags. Positive, negative. Andrew Luck, Jaden Daniels, first week of camp commander's Colts. You were hearing glowing reports. Disastrous first dates rarely become great.

[Unknown Advertiser]

30 year marriages.

[J. Mac]

I've interviewed lots of people in my life. Disastrous interviews never become great. Higher. It matters. Sean Payton last year was texting me in August. He's like, Bo Nix. That may take a few starts. Guy's gonna be good by October. Bo Nick's 103 passer rating, you can see good. It can be one of those musical shows. It can be a athlete, it can be an interview. It could be a first date. You can see stuff. What do they say? Men decide in eight seconds, women decide in eight minutes if they want to spend any time with this person. So Caleb Williams was sold as a generational talent. We were all hoping it would be this generation. Right? Like how long do you want us to ask last and, and wait. So remember this? Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson's first year with Jared Goff. Let's go back to that. Remember that. That Lions team, 2022 was not the roster it is now. The old line wasn't quite set. Jared Goff, first year with Ben Johnson, now the Bears coach, led the NFL, 29 touchdowns, seven picks, seventh in passer rating, sixth in passing yards. And again, that Lions team isn't the one. Now that's three off seasons ago. The Lions team now, I don't think is as good offensively as the Bears team right now with their personnel. So I, I feel this quarterbacks in 2025 are a little bit like streaming shows, bro. If you're not getting me by the second episode early, I'm out. Used to be three years. Give Eli Manning three years. Those days are over. Private coaching, seven on seven camps. You can transfer in high school and college to a better place. Those days are over. He's got to be good by late September and early October. And that streaming show, you know it, and I know it by the second episode. If you're eight, 10 minutes in and you're like, the writing's bad, it doesn't work. You're on to another streaming show or another service. And so I think you got it. You got to grab people early in this relationship. So. Ben Johnson yesterday said it's not as bad as it was reported, but today, seven on seven drills, red zone, two picks. Not good. Here's Ben Johnson.

[Ben Johnson]

I know some people enjoyed me throwing the first team out of practice. Not the case. We got to end up executing getting in and out of the huddle a certain way, and it wasn't that way. And we're learning, we're growing. You know, there's some things from the springtime expected to carry over that. That was probably one we just don't have any tolerance for anymore. We got. We got too far to go.

[J. Mac]

Yeah. I mean, we've. This is year two generational talent. Hopefully this one. OTAs, three days at camp, every day at something else. I like him a lot, but the critics make good points. Hero ball runs backwards. A lot of this NFL quarterback stuff is. Is work ethic and getting in and out of plays and not making big errors. You know, I. I say this all the time about Mahomes about three times a game. Jaw dropping, 27 drop backs. He's just hitting the drag routes. So Caleb right now struggling with the layup stuff, the easy stuff. Don't throw picks in the red zone. Dirt it thought. You know what they say, red zone. You got to throw it lower out of the end zone. Right. So today, two picks. Not great. So yesterday I did a rant, and it got a lot of. It was a couple days ago, and it got a lot of play. And I. My, My rant was anytime you talk Michael and LeBron James, and LeBron's been in the news because he hasn't made contact with new Laker Market smart guys on vacation. Put your phone down. When I go on vacation, I'll run into people. Who's filling in for you? I have no idea. It's not my company. I Put my phone down, I move on. I'm going to defend LeBron on that. We should all put our phone downs and disappear when we go on vacation and be with our kids and our families and our wives and our in laws or whatever. So I had this rant that LeBron will never be as beloved as Michael because we went through the Michael journey with him. We saw the Pistons beat him up and he had multiple coaches and we saw the Celtics beat him up and we lived through his journey. He was a college basketball player at Carolina, the great shot against Georgetown. So sports makes you feel something and Michael makes us feel something. And LeBron has been, you know, I called him in my rant the ultimate basketball opportunist. And it was seen as a shot at LeBron. And I want to add clarity. It's not. I would have left Cleveland the first time to seven years. Couldn't get him an all star. You don't owe your first team that drafts you your entire career. College kids now transfer two or three times. But if I was LeBron, I would have stayed in Miami because of Eric Spoelstra, Mickey Harrison, the owner and Pat Riley. No state tax. It's a winter league, warm weather and the Miami Heat are always in contention for great free agents. I would have stayed there. Now people say, well, LeBron, his heart was in Cleveland. No, it wasn't. He left it a second time. He understood going to Cleveland was good for his brand. He didn't like being a villain. He acknowledged that later. The Sports Illustrated letter. And I'm not banging on people who leave Cleveland. Our staff put it a list today of people that have left Cleveland. It's a lot of Drew Carey and George Steinbrenner and Steve Harvey and Paul Newman and the Kelsey's and Drew Carey and Logan, Paul and LeBron James. A lot of people leave Cleveland. There's just, you know, there's New York, there's Chicago in the Midwest, there's la, there's London, there's just. There's. Cleveland's not a place you have to stay or that is always great for commerce. It's a great place to be born and from. Sometimes it's not a great place in your prime to be living right for your career. So I'm not banging on that. But don't tell me that LeBron, Cleveland's where his heart is. He's not going to retire in action. And he left it twice. And the reason he left was time he wanted to go to la. It was good for his brand and he could play with bigger stars because bigger stars like Luka and AD like to play in Los Angeles. And so I go back to this. Is that the downside? And I speak from experience to bouncing around the country in your career, you know, if anybody's followed me, Vegas, Tampa, Portland, Fox, espn. The downside of that is that, that, that, you know, you never live in that cul de sac where your kids grow up and they have lifelong friends. I have to live with that. The upside to moving around a lot, and LeBron has seen this, he's overall played with better teammates. Michael's best teammate, he's got one great one, Scotty Pippen. I mean, LeBron's got D. Wade and Kyrie Irving and Chris Bosh and AD and LeBron's played with more great players. LeBron's been to more finals. LeBron's had fewer long droughts or battles within an organization. He bales for commerce and that's okay. But my whole point was for athletes, we love the perseverance. There is a beauty in the struggle. They make 30 for 30s on the struggle. They're almost all about somebody overcoming turbulence, chaos, fighting and winning. That's where they make 30 for 30s from. And sports is romanticized. And we've always thought of Michael as part of our sports love story. LeBron has simply been transactional. That's the downside to being the best basketball opportunist ever. You played with better teammates, you made more finals, you made a lot more money, by the way, as a player. But it's hard to fall in love with that. You fall in love with the people in your culdesac. Same high school, same people you grew up with. Thanksgiving next door neighbor may just pop into the house with a gift. You don't get that with LeBron and you got it with Michael. And that's really the difference. Okay, so I know you're thinking I'm obsessing about this Caleb Williams stuff, but Jaden Daniels hit Bo Nick's hit. I'm going to be all over J.J. mcCarthy. I think Drake Mays hit. I think the J.J. mcCarthy, Caleb Williams stories. If these guys hit and Penix hits, it's a 6 for 6 draft with quarterbacks in the first round. Never happened. And I do think struggling. It's red zone one day, deep balls next day, can't get into a play the next day. It matters. A lot of athletes say, well, you can't take everything or anything from camp. You can take some stuff. I remember last year, J. Mac, Jayden Daniels, I said this five times on the air. I'm like, generally coaches kind of keep quiet to lower expectations on rookies. And we said this four or five times. Dan Quinn and Kingsbury kept coming out publicly and going, this is unbelievable. And this was after like three practices. You can watch those musical shows, the Voice or American Idol years ago. You can see great very quickly now. It may be hard to tell good to very good or bad to disaster, but you can see awful and you can see great very quickly. And I don't think it takes long on a date or a job interview or for a young quarterback to see trouble. Sean Payton was texting me last year in camp and he was like, kid's going to be good. Said give him a few starts. You know, he's got to get up to the speed. You know, nobody starters don't plan preseason. Can't take a ton for preseason. But he was saying the kids got it, he's going to be good soon. And by October, Bonix was a really good quarterback.

[Dave Wanstadt]

Yeah, well, it's a perfect seamless move from what Drew Brees looked like in the pocket to Bo Nix. Very similar. You know, I look at Jared Goff and then I look at Caleb Williams. Those are two polar opposite quarterbacks and I just wonder, I'm starting to wonder and again, I probably shouldn't but this is you hammering away at Caleb Williams every day. I'm starting to wonder like Ben Johnson, great offensive mind. We don't know what he's going to be as a head coach. Head coach is a lot more difficult than just being an offensive coordinator. And so far, you know, rocky start. Maybe you're on to something.

[J. Mac]

It is interesting when a guy comes with a great reputation as a coordinator. Like, like for instance, Kyle Shanahan came in with a great reputation as a coordinator that's usually successful. I mean, Sean McVeigh came in and people were saying this guy's as Sharp as any 30 year old coaching person in the league. And he was a home run. Now there are guys you're not sure how it's going to work, but I mean Ben Johnson, we talked about him for two years. We were like, dude, he is, he is calling and dialing up misdirection trick plays like he was, he was not your typical offensive coordinator. Like he was somebody we were sort of mesmerized by. We were mesmerized by Kyle Shanahan. So. And by the way, when Kevin o' Connell got the job in Minnesota, he was called the tall Sean McVeigh people said, yeah, he is really sharp. When D' Ameco, Ryan's went to Houston, defensive coach, but I can remember making a call to the Niners and they're like, bro, he moved up our organization in two years. He was our sharpest assistant first day on the job. So I do think Ben feels like more of a McVeigh, a Shanahan or a Kevin O'. Connell. Zach Taylor wasn't somebody. People said he was bright, but he didn't get all the accolades of Ben Johnson or Kevin O' Connell or Kyle Shanahan. People say, you know, he's McVeigh's guy. But Raheem Morris, people liked him. McVeigh liked him. He didn't get the accolades. Ben's coming in with a lot of momentum.

[Dave Wanstadt]

Yeah, well, one thing we. I totally forgot until you just said it now. So Belichick went from Drew Bled, so successful, to Brady. Similar quarterbacks, big strapping pocket guys, right? Andy Reid goes Donovan McNabb who was, you know, really, really good quarterback. We forget that. And to Patrick Mahomes, similar, like, can run but can win.

[J. Mac]

Even Alex Smith was a mover.

[Dave Wanstadt]

Alex Smith was a mover. Jared Goff to Caleb Williams, you would agree those are not the same type of quarterbacks. Colin and I just wonder if the learning curve is a little larger for Ben than we thought it might be.

[J. Mac]

I think that's a very legitimate and a very good point. It's like going from Matt Ryan to Caleb Williams, Jared Goff to Caleb Williams. It is. It is a total different sensibility. And I do think Andy Reid has mastered and Nick Sirianni has done a.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Good job with this.

[J. Mac]

You have to let athletes be athletes. John Harbaugh has always said there are Times. Sean McDermott and the offensive coordinators at Buffalo, you got to let Josh Allen be Josh Allen. You cannot have a rigidity with coaching. So that's a very, very fair point. The home you've worked so hard for.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am.

[J. Mac]

Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Covino]

Hey, we're Covino and Rich, Fox Sports radio every day, 5 to 7pm Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to.

[Rich]

And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Over Promised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hour show. We never get to everything, honestly, because this guy is over promising things. We never have time for yeah, you.

[Colin Cowherd]

Blubber lips blaming me.

[Covino]

Well, you know what? It's called Over Promise. You should be good at it because you've been over promising women for years.

[Rich]

Well, it's a Covino and Rich after show and we want you to be a part of it. We're gonna be talking sports, of course we're gonna, but we're also gonna talk life and relationships.

[J. Mac]

And if Rich and I are arguing.

[Rich]

About something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over Promised.

[Covino]

Well, if you don't get enough Covino and Rich, make sure you check out Over Promised and also uncensored by the way, so maybe we'll go at it.

[J. Mac]

Even a little harder.

[Covino]

It's gonna be the best after show podcast of all time.

[Rich]

There you go, overpromising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us Listen to Over Promised with Covino and rich on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[J. Mac]

Can count on and won't break the bank.

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[J. Mac]

Podcast Network hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know.

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[J. Mac]

Okay.

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[J. Mac]

Well, fans do it all the time. I understand it when they do. Media does it too often. I don't like it when they do. They pander instead of just saying the truth out loud. Andrew Barry is a very sharp general manager of the the Cleveland Browns. I've said before, Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Barry have overcome a lot. I think they're both top 25% of.

[Unknown Advertiser]

The league at their respective jobs.

[J. Mac]

Andrew Smart and instead of pandering, which the media constantly does with young athletes, Andrew Barry said what Chadour Sanders did getting two speeding tickets as a fifth round draft pick as a quarterback Was dumb.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Here he is.

[Andrew Barry]

Not smart. Just not just not smart. It's not just about, you know, driving a car really fast, but it's about the fact that you can endanger other people. It's about the fact that if a deer or someone you know cuts out in front of you like your reaction time, it's just dangerous. And it's not something that we want our guys to be doing. It's not something that they should be doing. And the number one reason is because we don't want some type of catastrophic accident.

[J. Mac]

He's a fifth round pick. They haven't invested anything in him. They could show him the door tomorrow. He's a quarterback. The standards higher. I heard a lot of this, Colin. It's no big deal. I've had a speeding ticket. 34% of American men have been arrested. I'm going to hold my quarterback to a little higher standard than the general public. 74% of Americans are overweight. Should my pro athlete, I mean, bob down the street is. Again, there are standards. I need smarter, I need more dedicated. I need more focus than young guys getting arrested and people overweight. That's the average citizen. Fine. This is not an average position. Quarterbacks don't get sick days. You wake up with a sinus infection, you're out. They do. Grab your helmet. Let's go, let's go. Get in the huddle. Hurry up. Two speeding tickets. Fifth round quarterback is dumb. You know, speeding ticket becomes not knowing the formation on Sunday. Like it's just not that difficult. Quarterbacks are supposed to put out fires, not start them. So Andrew Barry is speaking the truth out loud. This I, I whenever I hear this, well, I've done this or I've done that. That's not the standard I'm shooting for. Quarterback, NFL franchise. There's 32 starting jobs in the country. Like that's it. I mean, teams give you about a year and a half and then move off you, you have to make impressions. So I just appreciate a general manager going to a podium and not pandering. Just call it out. Not good enough. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd.

[Colin Cowherd]

Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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American Public University where service members like you can access high quality, affordable education built for your lifestyle. With online programs that fit around deployments, training and unpredictable schedules, APU makes it possible to earn your degree no matter where duty takes you. Their preferred military rate keeps tuition at just $250 per credit hour for undergraduate and master's tuition and with 24. 7 mental health support plus career coaching and other services, APU is committed to your success during and after your service. Learn more at APU Apus Edu Military that's Apu Apus Edu Military Everybody loves a good MVP story and the story of Wasabi Technologies is one of the best. Wasabi is purpose built to free businesses from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys. Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company, becoming the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cyber criminals, data deletion and ransomware. Wasabi has taken the lead in driving innovation in data storage, eliminating overhead where it matters to deliver you results you.

[J. Mac]

Can count on and won't break the bank.

[Unknown Advertiser]

In fact, Wasabi is up to 80% less than those other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi Another championship story. Check them out for [e-mail]. wasabi Hot Cloud Storage Proud partner of the Voluum Podcast Network hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it, or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade Vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmicks. Smooth, clean tasting made the right way.

[J. Mac]

Okay. I like things that are built to last.

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[J. Mac]

All right, here we go. It's our two. We got news. J. Mac, we started our show an hour ago talking about Caleb Williams. We had a bumpy OTA and three straight days he has scuffed and struggled today. Two picks in the 7 on 7 red zone drill. So that red zone is a place you do not make mistakes. I'm sure if it's at the front of the end zone, you throw it low. If it's at the back of the end zone, you throw it high. You don't throw picks in the red zone. He had two today. People are getting a little worked up and I Go ahead.

[Dave Wanstadt]

J.J. watt. I'm sure you saw J.J. watt put something on social. It was alluded to your take on Caleb Williams and, and you know, training camp picks and so forth. And he kind of tried to pick it apart and all these people think, oh, see cow her drawing. It's no big deal that Caleb Williams is messing up here early on.

[J. Mac]

You guys, everything is something. Yeah, nothing is everything but Jaden Daniels. Last year at camp, Dan Quinn and Cliff Kingsbury, first week of camp were saying publicly, oh my God, this kid is miles ahead of where rookies are. Sean Payton is texting me during camp last year. Bo Nix needs a few starts. He's going to get good really fast. By October, Bo Nix had a pass rating over 100. Everything matters. I want to bring in the former Bears coach. It's so apropos that we have. Dave wants that on the show today. Six years Bears, five years Dolphins. 39 years coaching football. So listen, you can give Caleb a little bit of a pass for last year it was, I mean, they had a three head coaches by the end of it. But Dave, the critics of Caleb Williams said he plays too much hero ball. He could struggle with accuracy. He could be a little bit moody. So when I see with Ben Johnson all of these things coming out at camp, he's not getting plays in the footwork. He's, he's again little hero. But holding on to the ball, it's something. Is. I don't want to hear that. It's nothing. Isn't it something?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, it is. And I'll tell you this in training camp and you know, I live this, you know, we would go through training camp and we, let's say we were struggling running the football. We would say, well it's just preseason, it's just a training camp. Those things usually do show up once you start playing for real, but it's early and I would just say this. Caleb, keep in mind last year at training camp, he, he was a guy that had a tough time getting a snap because he was never up under center. I mean this is how primitive the whole pro passing game under center play action, pass was to this kid. So you know, I think it's a starting point there and then, and then Ben does everything by timing by that. I mean it's 1, 2, 3, the ball's coming out. Now you got to get it obviously to the right person or it might be five steps. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And everything is tied together from the line protection to the receiver routes and the quarterback. So this is, there is a learning process here. And I would probably say the biggest difference between here and OTAs is now there's a pass rush and they're not hitting the quarterback. But the Bears now are getting a lot of pressure and probably putting their hands up and, and that's a little bit different from him because he's throwing from a different spot. You go back to his college days, Colin at usc, this guy, he saw more three man rush and more of a prevent defense than any quarterback in college football because they knew that he wouldn't sit in the pocket, he was going to scramble and he was going to try to throw it deep. So this is now all of a sudden it's play fake and it's coming out 1, 2, 3. This is completely foreign to him. I think he'll be fine. You know, I'm going up for a couple of days next week, so I'll get a firsthand look and sit down and sit down with Ben. We'll have a coup good conversations.

[J. Mac]

I want to ask you about Mike McDaniel. So I do think in this day and age, offensive coaches have an advantage because all the rules lean offense. So it does help to be an offensive coach. Now that doesn't mean Sean McDermott can't be great, but even Belichick Felt a little out of touch his last four or five years in New England. The whole darn league now is about quarterbacks and offensive coaches. And Mike McDaniel goes to Miami, and everybody loved him. He was quirky. He was unique. In my takeaway now, two, three years later, is lot of sizzle, not a lot of stake. They don't run the ball. It's a lot of clever. It's a lot of multiple sets in motion. I would move off Tyreek Hill. I would. I would get picks. I don't think it's working in Miami. I don't think it is. You've been there. What are your thoughts on that?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I, you know, two thoughts. Number one, the Tyree Kill situation. I don't know. How do you have an outside shot to go to the playoffs as a wild card, which they did last year. And some things had a fall. Right. But that last game, if they win and two or three things happen, and your best player, Tyreek Hill, does not go in the game, and they asked you that at a press conference, and you don't have an answer. I'm still, like, taken back a little bit by that response. And the other thing that bothers me, and you hit it right on the head. You know, Chris Greer was on my staff when I was there. He was one of my scouts. Great. I thought he was very good. I don't know Mike, as a head coach, but the players that they signed as free agents, the players that they drafted, the first comment out of everybody's mouth this year with Miami was, he's a tough guy. Oh, we drafted the big tackle, Grant, out of Michigan, but you know why he is a tough guy. It's weak. It's. It's. It's. You know, I hate to say this, but it's probably too late. It's like halfway through the season, you decide that you want to run the football. It's too late. That's training camp. And now, all of a sudden, they want to become a tough football team. I just don't. I don't. It's going to be very difficult to turn that mindset.

[J. Mac]

Yeah. You know, it's funny about guys like Kyle Shanahan, Matt LaFleur and Sean McVay, even though they're offensive coaches, they love the run game. They Love Shanahan and McVeigh and LaFleur love power football. And so I think sometimes I think McDaniel again, I just. I understood the media falling for it, but it was a lot of motion and a lot of Stuff didn't matter. But the difference between Shanahan and McDaniel, because there's a lot of the same offenses. Shanahan runs the ball. He loves to run the ball.

[Colin Cowherd]

And we all know quarterback is the key to all this stuff. At the end of the day, who is down there saying that he hasn't patched it up yet. He has a problem with Tyreek Hill. They haven't really bonded since the end of the season when Tyreek Hill said he didn't want to have anything to do with the Dolphins. He didn't like their culture. Well, I tell you what happened to minicamp, Colin. What happened to OTAs? These guys had six months to work through that problem, that issue, whatever it is, to what extent, I don't know. But when you got your starting quarterback coming out during training camp saying, I got a problem with him, we're not on the same page. That concerns the heck out of me.

[J. Mac]

When I watch those old Dallas Cowboy films, NFL films, and you were part of that great team with Jimmy Johnson, and I hear Troy Aikman. Jimmy had left. Barry was there and. And Troy is lighting guys up. And he's. He's questioning maturity on his teammates. He's questioning maturity. And I think that takes. That's why I like my quarterback sometimes to, you know, be a grown up here. And Shador Sanders gets two tickets. And finally Andrew Barry came out and said, that's just not smart. What do you do? You don't have a dominant quarterback. You drafted two kids. You got Kenny Pickett. What do you do with tickets? How do you address it as a coach? It would be so hard for me to watch the Sanders and not make judgments on him based on driving 90 miles an hour as a fifth round rookie. I would. I would have a hard time looking at him the same way. What do you make of what he did and how. How much do you think that will hurt his Cleveland experience?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think it's going to affect him. I'll tell you why. You know, he. He's a quarterback. You're. If you're a defensive lineman, it's still wrong. It still would concern you. But I'll be honest with you. I've had defensive linemen that have kind of fallen into the same mentality. Always something, you know, going on with the guy. No one ever talked about it, but your quarterback is the face of the program. And everything is going to be magnified that this kid does. And the second thing that really bothers me is, you know, and I'm sure Dion's told him this. Son, there's a reason that you fell from the first round down to the fourth or fifth round. There's a reason for that, okay? We cannot give these people any reason to think anything negative about you except football performance. If the football performance isn't good enough, hey, that's it. But don't give him any other reason. And here we go. We got a reason to just put a little doubt in your minds, not just for Cleveland, whether he's with Cleveland or anybody else. There's a lot of GMs are passed on this kid. A lot of GMs that an opportunity to draft him. Why? I don't know all the details that this is just not good overall. I don't think it's just another check to the box.

[J. Mac]

So, you know, I, I was saying this this week, and it sounds weird. I said the, the most important thing when you take a job is your quarterback. That's why Harbaugh took the Chargers. Justin Herbert. But the second most important thing is ownership. And I said, I think I would take the Niners job, which has good ownership and a. Which has great ownership and a good quarterback. Brock Purdy, over going to Cincinnati where Burrow's great, but I don't trust the scouting department. I don't trust the ownership. And I said, I worry about Joe Burrow becoming Matt Stafford, where we all know he's great, but there's. It's a circus of coaches. They don't draft well enough. The organization at the top isn't good enough. So I saw a story this week about Joe Burrow. He was upset about more holdouts. How do you think the Burrow thing. How do you think it plays out? Because, Dave, he's the best quarterback. Last year, there's an argument he was the league's best quarterback. He was the best quarterback in the league and did not make the playoffs. How do you. Are you worried that he becomes Stafford in Detroit?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, absolutely. I think you have to be. You know, because I don't know. Even with Hendrickson and their number one draft picks hold that too. Right. The pass rusher from Texas A and M. But I would say this. I'm going to just remind me of a little story. You know, I worked for the Dolphins with Coach Shula for six weeks before Jimmy got the Dallas job. And Coach Shula told me, coward, I'm going to dispute your priorities here. He said, you know the difference, Dave, between this NFL job and the. In college. And I said, no, coach. And he said, well, understand who the three most important people are in the NFL. Number one, your owner, number two, your owner, and number three, your owner. So that's just. I don't know if Coach Hula knew anything then, but that was his philosophy. But I would say to this, okay, I don't know, it's a distraction. The first thought that comes to my mind is it's a distraction. And you do not. Last year it was receivers get them signed. And man, the quickest way to be defeated. You've heard me say this when we did shows together is to be distracted. And right now this football team is distracted. And you know, you know Mike Brown said, yeah, we'll get him signed. I mean, he's 30 years old. You know what the market is, what wat. God and what Miles Garrett. You know what to pay this guy. Because you know the reason when you have a good, a great offense like you have with Burrow and that group of receivers, a great offense, it's going to score points at the end of the game. We always talk about you have to have defensive closers. And who are your closers? It's your pass rushers, your two pass rushers and your two corners. They're the guys. If you don't have them, you have a tough time stopping people when they're throwing it. And you do have the lead. That was the Dolphins problem for years with Dan Marino. He'd get a lead, couldn't get off the field on defense and they get on a score. I mean, he's 30 years old. So you get three good years on some do a three year contract. This is my opinion. Signed to a three year contract and let Burrow, you know, in three years, I mean, you know, I don't know, it just bothers me that, that you would let this distraction. I don't know what's going on with their number one pick, the rookie, the defensive end, you know, language or something. I read somebody said, I don't know about these rookie contracts anymore. You know what he's talking about with language. But do you need these two guys in there? You need them in there now?

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[J. Mac]

And it should be noted that when Hendrickson did not play, they're like 32nd with a pass rush. So he is their pass rush. Finally, Dave wants that. Joining us, one of my favorite people I've said this with, Nick Saban. He's not going back to college, Dave, because with the nil, you have to pay so much money for players. 15 million. You have to go to your boosters to get 15 million bucks. You're not going to buy out a coach for 60 million. Pay Nick Saban 70 million, raise 15. There's too much money now. Now, you're not going to fire your coach. Nick's not going to coach college. He already did great there. But I do think, because of the way Miami ended, he would take a call if Arch Manning went to the Saints or Arch Manning went to Cleveland. I think he would take the phone call. Do you?

[Colin Cowherd]

He would take the phone call just because, you know, everybody wants to be wanted. Everybody wants to, you know, and I can speak from Jimmy, I mean, and not get into the teams. But even when Jimmy was into Fox several years, okay, when he was done with it all, that he called me one time in particular and was offered so much money to run the whole thing, coach, gm, everything with the team, and he took the call, you know, but obviously he didn't have any interest in doing it. So I think that's where Nick's at right now, where Belichick's enjoying this. I saw Bill's press conference, and he's talking about going out and meeting with alumni, how much he enjoyed going to other sports, men's and women's, and meeting the student athletes. You know, it's new to Bill, so he's enjoying it right now. You know, Nick's kind of gone. He's traveled that road. I don't see Nick getting back into it.

[J. Mac]

By the way, how do you think Belichick does?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think he's going to do good. You know, the biggest. And I did it with Pitt when I went back to Pitt, and I had some really good players, obviously, you know, Revis and that in that company, what. What happens, though, is you don't hit the restrictions in college with classes and the time you don't have. And Bill is such a perfectionist and, you know, do it over, do it over. Meet more, watch more, tape. The time restrictions in college are the number one thing that gets you when you separate the NFL from college football, in my opinion. And players aren't going to have it down as pat and they're going to make mistakes. And whether it be turning the ball over or breaking coverages, things like that happen with college kids, which all of a sudden you might be doing a fabulous job coaching, and you may have a lot of talent, but they make a mistake because you can't spend the time with them in college that you can in the NFL. That's the hurdle he's going to have to get over.

[J. Mac]

Yeah, that's always been my point about Like I said this, Bill Walsh coached in college, but the college limitations limited how brilliant Bill Walsh could be. But when you gave him 50 hours a week or Belichick, all that extra time, Bill's the best defensive coach ever. Bill Walsh the best offensive coach ever. If you told Andy Reid he only got 17 hours a week, Andy, oh yeah, he'd be pulling his hair out. Dave Wonstadt, as always, Coach, great seeing you. Okay, have you heard about this?

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[J. Mac]

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[J. Mac]

Hi, it's Colin.

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[Colin Cowherd]

This is an I Heart podcast.