Best of The Herd

Summary

Best of The Herd – Comprehensive Summary

Date Released: April 15, 2025
Podcast: The Herd with Colin Cowherd
Hosts: Colin Cowherd, Jordan Schultz
Collaborators: Nick Wright, Greg Rosenthal, Jeremy Hobson

---

Introduction

In the "Best of The Herd" episode, Colin Cowherd and Jordan Schultz navigate through a spectrum of compelling sports topics, offering in-depth analyses, passionate debates, and insightful commentary. This episode stands out by delving into the intricacies of the NFL draft, the evolving role of international athletes in major sports leagues, the current dynamics within the NBA's Golden State Warriors, and memorable moments in golf that have captivated audiences worldwide.

---

1. NFL Draft and Quarterback Strategy

Timestamp: 02:07 - 06:13

Jordan Schultz opens the episode with a critical examination of the upcoming NFL draft, emphasizing the paramount importance of quarterback selections. He categorizes NFL teams into distinct tiers based on their management and quarterback effectiveness.

• Tier One Teams: Schultz identifies eight elite NFL franchises, including Baltimore, Kansas City, Green Bay, Rams, Philadelphia, Detroit, and Buffalo. He states, “[04:30]... the NFL's becoming a little bit like the NBA. Very few at the top, small, middle, large, bottom,” highlighting the concentrated talent and strategic management within these teams.

• Quarterback Importance: Schultz underscores that in the modern NFL, the quarterback is essential, often determining a team’s success or failure. “In the NFL, quarterback is so essential now that if you don't have one, you're a have not,” he explains at [06:13].

• Draft Prospects Analysis: Focusing on the draft prospects, Schultz singles out Cam Ward as a transformative player for Tennessee, capable of elevating the team to Tier Two status. At [05:45], he mentions, “The goal shouldn't be to find the next Patrick Mahomes,” suggesting that teams should prioritize quarterbacks who can secure playoff berths over necessarily producing superstars.

• Comparative Performance: Schultz compares Jackson Dart unfavorably to Zach Wilson, citing their college performances and questioning their NFL readiness. “Jackson Dart to me is Zach Wilson,” he asserts, indicating both might struggle at the professional level.

Notable Quote:

“The NFL's becoming a little bit like the NBA. Very few at the top, small, middle, large, bottom.” – Jordan Schultz [04:30]

---

2. International Players as Faces of Major Sports Leagues

Timestamp: 05:45 - 35:31

The discussion transitions to the rising prominence of international athletes in major sports leagues, challenging the notion that non-domestic players cannot serve as league icons.

• Breaking Barriers: Schultz advocates for the acceptance and celebration of international players, citing examples like Luka Doncic in the NBA and Rory McIlroy in golf. He counters skepticism by highlighting their ability to connect with fans and embody the competitive spirit of American sports.

• Rory McIlroy’s Triumph: A significant portion is dedicated to Rory McIlroy’s emotional victory at the Masters. Schultz narrates the intensity and vulnerability displayed by McIlroy, comparing it to iconic sports moments. “[47:32]... Rory McIlroy go to his knees and just a waterfall of emotion, just crying in front of everybody,” he describes, emphasizing the raw human element that makes sports so captivating.

• Nick Wright’s Perspective: Nick Wright echoes Schultz’s sentiments, agreeing that international players can indeed become faces of their respective leagues if they possess the requisite charisma and leadership. At [35:31], Wright states, “I think international players definitely can be.”

Notable Quote:

“I don't buy into this. Rory can't be the face of golf or Shay or Messi or Conor McGregor.” – Jordan Schultz [34:10]

---

3. NBA Dynamics and the Golden State Warriors

Timestamp: 21:13 - 37:34

A deep dive into the current state of the Golden State Warriors offers listeners an insider’s look at the challenges and prospects facing the team.

• Aging Core: Schultz and Nick Wright discuss the Warriors’ aging roster, particularly focusing on veterans like Draymond Green and Steph Curry. Schultz critiques Curry’s defensive capabilities, stating, “[29:28]... he is a true defensive liability.”

• Strategic Mistakes: Wright acknowledges past missteps, including his earlier misjudgment regarding Draymond Green’s conduct. At [28:42], he concedes, “I owe your dear friend Draymond Green an apology.”

• Future Prospects: The hosts debate the Warriors' future, contemplating the impact of recent coaching changes and the integration of younger talent. They ponder whether the team can sustain its success or if further strategic adjustments are necessary.

Notable Quote:

“He is a true defensive liability.” – Jordan Schultz [29:28]

---

4. Rory McIlroy’s Historic Masters Victory

Timestamp: 37:34 - 47:44

Jordan Schultz paints a vivid picture of Rory McIlroy’s triumphant moment at the Masters, capturing the emotional and historical significance of his win.

• Emotional Resonance: Schultz shares a personal narrative of watching McIlroy’s victory, describing it as one of the most gripping and emotionally charged moments in sports history. He likens McIlroy’s resilience to that of legends like Michael Jordan.

• Comparative Analysis: By juxtaposing McIlroy with Tiger Woods, Schultz highlights the unique journey and emotional investment that make McIlroy’s win particularly compelling. “Rory's always kind of felt like Europe's Tiger. The difference is Tiger's better,” he reflects.

• Impact on Golf: The episode underscores how McIlroy’s victory embodies the essence of sportsmanship and the relentless pursuit of excellence, inspiring both fans and aspiring athletes.

Notable Quote:

“For Rory to go to his knees and just a waterfall of emotion, just crying in front of everybody. And, you know, athletes often say... his reaction tells you he wouldn't have slept for weeks after that.” – Jordan Schultz [47:32]

---

5. Concluding Discussions and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: 47:44 - 52:35

As the episode winds down, the hosts synthesize their discussions, reiterating key themes and offering final reflections.

• Leadership and Talent: Schultz emphasizes the importance of relentless determination and effective leadership in achieving sports success. He draws parallels between legendary figures, reinforcing the idea that perseverance is paramount.

• Evolution of Sports Icons: The conversation circles back to the evolving nature of sports icons, advocating for a more inclusive and global representation in major leagues.

• Future Outlook: The hosts express optimism about the future of various sports franchises, contingent upon strategic decisions and the cultivation of emerging talent.

Notable Quote:

“The number one quality of success in the world. Are you relentless? How do you react to failure?” – Jordan Schultz [43:57]

---

Conclusion

The "Best of The Herd" episode masterfully intertwines analysis, personal anecdotes, and spirited debates, offering listeners a multifaceted perspective on contemporary sports. From strategic evaluations of NFL quarterback prospects and the dynamic shifts within the NBA to heartfelt recounts of historic victories in golf, the episode serves as a comprehensive guide for sports enthusiasts eager to stay informed and engaged with the latest developments across various leagues.

Overall Notable Quotes:

1. On NFL Tier Systems:
   “The NFL's becoming a little bit like the NBA. Very few at the top, small, middle, large, bottom.” – Jordan Schultz [04:30]

2. On Draft Strategy:
   “The goal shouldn't be to find the next Patrick Mahomes.” – Jordan Schultz [05:45]

3. On International Players as Icons:
   “I don't buy into this. Rory can't be the face of golf or Shay or Messi or Conor McGregor.” – Jordan Schultz [34:10]

4. On Draymond Green:
   “I owe your dear friend Draymond Green an apology.” – Nick Wright [28:42]

5. On Steph Curry’s Legacy:
   “He is a true defensive liability.” – Jordan Schultz [29:28]

6. On Rory McIlroy’s Victory:
   “For Rory to go to his knees and just a waterfall of emotion, just crying in front of everybody...” – Jordan Schultz [47:32]

---

This summarizes the key discussions and insights presented in the "Best of The Herd" episode, structured into clear sections with timestamped notable quotes for easy reference.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This one's for the food obsessed, for the phone eats first person, for the influencer who knows about a new spot before it's poppin. And for the person who's all in on dining out with Amex Gold. You can earn four times points at restaurants up to $50,000 and up to $100 back annually in statement credits on eligible purchases at US resi restaurants so you can get rewarded for eating what you love. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Cap applies. Learn more@american express.com with AmEx.

[Jordan Schultz]

As a renter, do you ever feel like you're just throwing money away? Think you'll never be able to save enough to buy your own home? Then check out Rent Rewards from Rocket Mortgage. They're helping you put your monthly rent payments toward home ownership. And for the first time, you can save up to $5,000 off the cost of your home just by paying rent only at Rocket Mortgage. Learn more today at 804Rocket or just visit Rocket.com Rocket Mortgage LLC equal housing.

[Unknown]

Lender licensed in all 50 states.

[Jordan Schultz]

NMLS consumeraccess.org number 3030 the herd is brought to you by Granger. If you work as a maintenance manager, your facility is your home turf and your home field advantage is having a partner like Granger. They offer trusted professional grade products for every industry from lighting and electrical to safety and everything in between, plus next day delivery. Which is why they always come through in the clutch just like you. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Colin Cowherd]

Welcome to a day in the life of an amex Gold Card Member. 7:00am Iced coffee with up to $84 back annually at Dunkin locations 12:00 pesto zoodles with four times Membership Rewards points on purchases at US restaurants up to $50,000.

[Jordan Schultz]

This is so good.

[Colin Cowherd]

And to finish strong, the freshest sushi spot with up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at US Frezzi restaurants. What a day. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Cap applies. Learn more@American Express.com with Amex.

[Jordan Schultz]

Oh here we go. A lot to talk about. NBA playing games start tonight in Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Jordan Schultz is here. J. Mack is going to be joining us here next week. He's on vacay right now. We love that for him. I just got off ak so I was thinking about this There's a story that cam ward is one of the 17 players who's going to get invited to the draft. And, and Jordan, this is interesting. Every industry, you notice this. Every industry could be real estate, it could be NFL teams, it doesn't matter. It could be landscaping. There's like one or two in hometown you trust, right? It's, it's Uber, it's Lyft. If a third company came in, probably wouldn't have the impact. Very few, elite, anything. That's why when you watch the draft once again this year, it's the same teams. Cleveland, the jets, the Raiders, the Giants, the Panthers, you know, the Browns, the Titans, the Jaguars. It's always the same teams drafting at the top of the draft. In fact, if you look, in my opinion, there are eight teams that I consider sort of my circle of trust. Owner, gm, coach and quarterback. Only eight in the entire league. A quarter of the NFL. Baltimore, Kansas City, Green Bay, Rams, Philly, ners, Detroit, Buffalo. They're not perfect. Sometimes they overpay, they miss on draft picks. Eventually some have had to fire coaches, but that's my circle of trust. Owner, gm, coach, quarterback, mostly A's. Then there's a second group of teams that check a lot of boxes. But there's something I don't love. Denver, Seahawks, Chargers, Tampa, Vikings, Houston, and the Commanders. I think the Commanders could get to that tier one by the end of next year. But that's 15 total teams. That is less than half of the NFL. I've said this multiple times in the last year. NFL's becoming a little bit like the NBA. Very few at the top, small, middle, large, bottom. And that's because in the NFL, quarterback is so essential now that if you don't have one, you're a have not. Well, what about the Steelers? They've won three playoff games in 13 years over backup level quarterbacks. Never an elite quarterback. In 13 years they've won a playoff game. Not one against a great quarterback. What about Indy? I like the gm, I like the coach. Quarterback, owner. You can have them. What about Cincinnati? That's all about Joe Burrow. Take him out. Bad franchise. So New England. Let's take a deep breath on Mike Frable. I think it'll work. But they've been bad for several years. So when you look at Cam Ward, Cam ward is the 1 player in the draft that can get Tennessee at least by the end of this year. Because Will Levis was so bad, he could get them into the tier two group. He could do what C.J. stroud did to Houston. So, so to me, he's a playmaker. It's a weak division. He's got an offensive coach. I look at Cam ward as the one guy in this draft of the 17 invited. He's the one guy that can change a have not to a have. Abdul Carter is an excellent player, but do we really believe if he went to Cleveland with their quarterback mess, they're suddenly a tier one, tier two team? Earlier this week or last week on this show from the Athletic, Dane Brugler talked about it's not about landing Mahomes, it's just about getting in one of those top couple of tiers in the league.

[Unknown]

When you're, we were talking about quarterbacks in the, in the NFL draft, it's almost like you're making a bet, right? I mean, you're making a bet that this guy can be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL. And I think for most teams, they see Cam Ward as a guy that can be maybe a top 12, top 14 quarterback because that's what you're looking for. The goal shouldn't be to find the next Patrick Mahomes.

[Jordan Schultz]

The goal should be, hey, let's find.

[Unknown]

A guy that's going to help us compete and let it help us get to the playoffs. Because once you get in the playoffs, anything is possible.

[Jordan Schultz]

And, and so as I look at this draft and I look at this league as a whole, there's only one way to go from chaos to a top tier group quarterback. Even a coach is limited. It, it's, it's the quarterback. That's what Houston did nothing against Amico Ryan, it's CJ Stroud. And to go from Will Levis to Cam Ward, feels like you could make a seven. I mean, look at what Josh Allen did to Buffalo, what Burrow did to Cincinnati. So there's only one way to do it. You got to hit on the quarterback. And I think Tennessee will. So this has been a topic on another network on a very popular show. One of their hosts, popular guy, said, hey, international guy can't be the face of the NBA. And I thought a lot about that. But this morning it really hit me as Luka Dontich, former maverick from overseas, now a Laker, is the top selling NBA jersey. Steph and LeBron are right behind him. So I don't buy that debate because I think borders, at least in sports, are getting erased. Everything is global now. And I want you to think about this. Shohei Ohtani does not speak English. He's the face of baseball, the ufc Surged past boxing. And it was never more popular than when Irishman Conor McGregor was the face of the sport. MLS, their most popular player and their biggest draw today, Messi. And over the weekend, Northern Ireland's Rory McElroy became the face of golf. Now, you could argue it's Brooks Koepka, it's Bryson Dechambeau, but other players, including Phil Mickelson, chose to go to the live tour. That was polarizing, not to me, but to a lot of people. But Tiger and Rory remained with the pga. And because of that, and coupled with the Masters win at Augusta and he'll be the favorite at the British Open played in Northern Ireland, I think it's fair to say that Rory McElroy is the face of golf. Oh, by the way, Alexander Ovechkin had certainly an argument over the last 20 years with like a Sidney Crosby. He was the face of the NHL, certainly recently the most talked about. So all these sort of arbitrary borders, I think get erased in sports. And I think Luka Doncic is a very, very unique player. One of the things America really likes more than anything. We're the country of winners. We, we keep track. And Luka with the Lakers. If Steph and LeBron retired tomorrow, he's a trash talking international player. Okay? That wasn't what international players used to be. Luka is much more like us than any international player. He trash talks fans, he trash talks refs. That's what quote our players do. Most international players would come over, they were very polite, overly loyal, worked hard, much like Wemby, tried to basically disappear when they weren't at the arena. But Luca coming to Los Angeles is a bigger star. He's a trash talker. He's a scoring wizard. The beer after the game, they pulled out of his hands. He was part of a controversial trade. Now he's at the NBA's biggest brand. He's us. He gets along with LeBron, he gets along with Austin Reeves. He's us. So I don't, I don't buy into this. Rory can't be the face of golf or Shay or Messi or Conor McGregor. The bottom line is America loves winners. That's what we're into. I say Michael Jordan, you think six for six. LeBron's got all the records. Michael, six for six. Tom Brady, all the trophies. Is Tom the most talented? Can Tom do what Josh Allen, Lamar, Patrick Mahomes can do? No. Tom's the ultimate winner. And if Luca. Yes, if the Lakers, and I think they have to be a favorite or a co Favorite to get the NBA Finals. If they win a championship, Luka will have played very well, and I think more than Jayson Tatum, who, by the way, this morning, I looked it up. Jayson Tatum is the 10th most watched player on YouTube Highlights. 10th with the best team. He doesn't have the aura. He didn't have the personality. He's not a trash talker guy over my shoulder right there on FS1. Luca is so international guys have assimilated. They've become more westernized. I said this a couple of years ago with Giannis when Giannis said, basically, get me a good player or trade me. That was a very domestic move. That's what our stars do. That's what LeBron does. That's what the late Kobe Bryant did. I'm going to Chicago. If you don't get me somebody, they got on Pau Gasol. Giannis is basically, get me a better player, I'm out of Milwaukee. That's not what international players did. My entire life watching this league, that's what they do now. Now they berate fans and trash talk refs and are polarizing. Nothing says America more than that. All Luca needs is a trophy, because that's all Shohei Ohtani needed, a trophy to be the face of baseball. All right, We're a very connected world in 2025. You know, listen, our. Our government may have it out for Canada, but when Steve Nash was in winning MVPs, Steve Nash was us. Nobody really cared. We got a lot of stuff going on. You know, the warriors play tonight, and if the warriors playing Memphis don't win tonight, Jordan Schultz, what do we make of them? Because they. They feel a little bit like the old couple at the nightclub. I mean, if you really look at them, OKC is young. Minnesota can be young.

[Unknown]

Memphis is young.

[Jordan Schultz]

If they lose to Memphis, Cleveland's young in the East. So there's a lot of youth. I mean, the Celtics are not young and the Lakers are not young, but a lot of the west is these improve, like Utah is going to get real good, real fast. It's a lot of youth. And then there's the old warriors, where Draymond's their youngest star and I think he's 35. So, like, if the warriors lost to new and I don't think it's going to happen. They're a 7 1/2 point favorite. I think it's going to be close, but I'll take the warriors to win. But if they lost tonight, they're locked into Butler and Steph and Draymond Is it like the end? Well, not getting younger.

[Unknown]

The key point you made yesterday, Colin, was that for all the great players they've drafted Draymond, Clay, Steph, Looney, a lot of these newer players that have come in, Kuminga, Moody, they just haven't fit in. So Kaminga first half of the season was fantastic, second half of the season, minutes down, three point percentage, mid 20s not being as productive. Can you trust that guy? Can you trust a Moses Moody when it really matters in the playoffs? We're going to find out a lot tonight. Even if they win and move on, we will find out a lot tonight about where Steve Kerr is at in terms of the younger players on that roster. Most importantly Kaminga.

[Jordan Schultz]

By the way, an NFL team being very clever, pretending they really like a quarterb fact. And my take is they really don't. Plus I said something yesterday that got people worked up. I had two former NFL coaches text me last night to tell me I'm wrong. I'll tell you what that is. Coming up next, be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app welcome.

[Colin Cowherd]

To a day in the life of an amex Gold Card Member. 7:00am Iced coffee with up to 84 back annually at Dunkin locations. 12:00 Pesto zoodles with four times Membership Rewards points on purchases at US restaurants up to $50,000.

[Jordan Schultz]

This is so good.

[Colin Cowherd]

And to finish strong, the freshest sushi spot with up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at U S Resi restaurants. What a day. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Cap applies. Learn more@american express.com with amex.t mobile stats.

[Unknown]

Are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service report in 90 days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required Card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country.

[Jordan Schultz]

I am a lifelong Republican with all.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Kinds of different people.

[Nick Wright]

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

[Jeremy Hobson]

That's why we started the middle with Jeremy Hobson it's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

[Jordan Schultz]

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for having me.

[Jordan Schultz]

Jeremy.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

[Jordan Schultz]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

[Jordan Schultz]

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

[Jordan Schultz]

We should be examining what our government.

[Unknown]

Spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here?

[Jordan Schultz]

But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Greg Rosenthal]

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jordan Schultz]

So listen, yesterday I touched a nerve because I, I talked about the six quarterbacks that I think are going to be drafted the highest. And, you know, I said, cam is the best playmaker. Shador needs the right fit, but I like a lot about him. Kyle McCord at Syracuse, to me, is probably the sleeper in the entire draft. But it was interesting because I said Jackson Dart to me is Zach Wilson. And Zach Wilson flamed out in the NFL very quickly in New York. So I got a lot of pushback from people and said, oh, give me a break. Okay, there's a lot of re. I did a little bit of homework on this. Both are 6, 2. Both went to the same powerhouse high school football program in Utah. So they're both about the same size. They're both good looking, kind of cocky, very confident guys who have really good arms. But when they played in college elite competition, when the game sped up, when they faced better coaching, it wasn't good. Zach Wilson in his career against the Huskies of Washington and the utes of Utah was 03, three touchdowns, four picks. Jackson Dart against Bama in Georgia was one for three. One in three, excuse me. And his only win. He completed 13% of his passes and completed well under 60% and it's even. I hear, I hear this. I had two people push back to me. Hey, Jackson Dart has got it. Well, what does that mean? The two things be very careful about because it's a weak college quarterback draft class. So people are going to reach. It's like Kenny Pickett. That was a terrible quarterback draft class. People reached on Kenny Pickett. The Steelers reached. He was not a first round quarterback. I had an NFL general manager with multiple super bowl rings tell me they graded him as a mid third round pick. Steelers reached. It was a bad quarterback draft class, probably the worst in the last decade or more. This is really bad. It's not as bad. There is a second round quarterback Kyle McCord, Syracuse, who I think could end up being a franchise quarterback if he gets the right landing spot. He's not great enough or transformational enough to overcome a bad coach or a bad O line or a bad owner. I think Cam Ward could even Shador Sanders who could go number two or three in the draft. I think it's where he lands the coach, the players, the roster, the gm, the owner. So be, just be very careful when you hear two things. Oh, this quarterback's a winner. What does that mean? Every quarterback ever at Bama, Georgia, Ohio State are winners. That doesn't mean anything. Will Howard won a bunch of games. He's not as good as Cam Ward. He wasn't as good when Cam Ward was at Washington State and they don't win that much. The second thing is well, he's got it. That's what they said about Josh Allen. Josh Allen 6, 5 and a half, 255 and jumps over linebackers. That's not it. That's traits. So here's the other thing though. If you look in the athletic this is the draft profile of the athletic. It says about Jackson Dart a three year starter at Ole Miss. He thrived in offensive coordinator Charlie Weiss Jr. Spread RPO heavy play action scheme. Here's Zach Wilson in the athletic his draft profile. A three year starter at byu he was productive in a former offensive coordinator Jeff Grimes RPO based heavy play action scheme. 62 same high school power ass program surrounded by better players go to college. Both dominated weaker competition when they faced the best college teams. It dried up really really fast. And again Dane Brugler on earlier last week and on our show on Jackson Dart and I watched them in college. I never saw him and I felt this about Zach Wilson. I never saw him as a first round quarterback.

[Unknown]

I came away more impressed with Lane Kiffin and the way he sets up his offense and calls the plays than I did with the quarterback. And that's not really a knock on Jackson Dart. It's just, it's such a scheme, a quarterback friendly scheme, that it really makes things easy for him. 53% of his snaps were play action. A lot of screens, a lot of one read, okay, it's not there, boom. I'm going to take off and use my legs and get six yards. And you know what, that works at the college level.

[Jordan Schultz]

It does not work in the NFL level unless you're Lamar Jackson. So it's, it's listen, in good quarterback draft classes, the first five quarterbacks taken, one's a star to work and three, bust. So this is a weak class where you may have one guy who starts and a lot of misses. And that's kind of my guess. Jalen Milro's too mechanical. Jackson Dart to me is Zach Wilson. Shador Sanders absolutely needs the right landing spot. I don't buy the kid from Louisville who I swear is 44 years old. I don't buy it. So I think we're going to get a lot of reaches. I think Jackson Dart's going to be a reach for like Pittsburgh at 21. And my take, I'm going to put it out there. I don't think it's going to work at a high level. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio.

[Unknown]

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that other shows seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific and if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe Noanrich where we you get your podcast and of course on social media. That's Covino and Rich.

[Colin Cowherd]

Welcome to a day in the life of an AMEX gold card member. 7:00am Iced coffee with up to $84 back annually at Dunkin locations 12:00 pesto zoodles with four times Membership Rewards points on purchases at US restaurants up to $50,000.

[Jordan Schultz]

This is so good.

[Colin Cowherd]

And to finish strong, the freshest sushi spot with up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at US Frezzi restaurants. What a day. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Cap applies. Learn [e-mail] with Amex.

[Unknown]

T mobile stats are as impressive as your favorite athlete's highlight reel because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service report in 90 plus days device knowledgeable carrier and timely redemption required Card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country.

[Jordan Schultz]

I am a lifelong Republican with all.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Kinds of different people.

[Nick Wright]

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

[Jeremy Hobson]

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

[Jordan Schultz]

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Jeremy Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

[Jordan Schultz]

Thanks for having me.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

[Jordan Schultz]

Hi, my name is Venkat. I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

[Jordan Schultz]

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these.

[Unknown]

Jobs necessary and what are we doing here?

[Jordan Schultz]

But that doesn't seem to be what.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We'Re doing in this situation, listen to the middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Greg Rosenthal]

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're gonna be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jordan Schultz]

Here we go, hour two, it's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. Jordan Schultz and for J. Mac, Joe Clatten hour from now. Nick Wright in five minutes. So I was thinking about this. I got a lot to talk about with Nick right here. I was thinking about this. So the Suns fired their coach during our show yesterday. Mike Budenholzer. Never thought it was a great fit. Got run in Milwaukee, down run in Phoenix. He and Katie had issues. He and Bradley Beal had issues. Weirdly constructed, they rolled the dice. I appreciate the swing by Matt hb, but in the end, it just didn't work. Especially the Beal part, didn't work at all. But it goes to show you a lot about Kevin Durant. So the NBA and pro sports is a lot more than just talent. I see this all the time. I talk to NFL GMs about this all the time. Some kids don't love football. Some kids, it takes them a long time to fit in to the group. They don't want to work hard enough. The playbook's harder than they thought. So Katie is one of the more talented players in the game. He is Wemby before Wemby, a seven footer that can handle the ball. Unbelievable talent. But like Aaron Rodgers, he's kind of a creative and he's a wanderer. And Steph Curry and Tom Brady, in my opinion, have far less talent. But they sacrifice, they get along with others, they're totally committed, they're laser focused. And now kd since leaving the warriors, seven coaches fired, two playoff series wins. And I, I think, I mean, over the last 15 years, I'd make an argument second most talented player to LeBron James. But LeBron James always made much better decisions. Much more business savvy about, you know, very Calculated, always a step ahead of the process. KD just wants the ball. And I mean, look at. He can still play. He was excellent in Phoenix. 53%. 26 a game, 43% from three. But seven fired coaches. He's become now a really talented bounce around the league guy. He doesn't care. Rick Bucher talked about this. You can bring him in, but don't ask him to lead the franchise. Even in his prime. Just. That's not who he is. His committed lack of relate leadership. His committed. I just want to hoop. And you play. You take a player of that talent and bring him into your team. It just, it screws up the dynamic. And I love this dynamic of the Rockets. And yes, I do think they need to upgrade there, but I wouldn't sacrifice that for a roll of the dice on a Kevin Durant. Yeah, I would. If he goes to New York, which has, I think a very strong leader in Jalen Brunson, who feels like a glue guy, not as talented as a Carmelo, but feels much more like a giving, committed, focused elevator of others. So I. Jalen Brunson, to me, I don't think you always have to be a superstar to be a great leader of a team. I, I think Jalen Brunson's a great quarterback. Now in Kansas City, the quarterback's the best player. But there are times, I mean, I mean you could, you could argue Gron was more gifted than Brady and there were, there were other players Randy Moss was. But Tom was committed, focused, elevated others. Jalen Brunson's great for the Knicks. Katie's not a leader, he's a shot maker. And I think you're going to see very quickly in the playoffs in the East. The Knicks need another shot maker. They're going to get worked on the pick and roll by the Cavs or the Celtics. If they play them and they're good enough and smart enough and constructed well enough, they'll win a playoff series. But I think KD works in New York. He's already been to the city. He liked it. But. But don't ask him to lead. That's not who he is. It's like I've always said this about Aaron. Aaron's more talented than a lot of guys, but he's a unique personality. Jeter was the foundation of the Yankees. A Rod was more talented. That's not a knock on a rod. That's just the reality of their personalities. With that Nick Wright, the foundation of first things first. Absolutely.

[Nick Wright]

But not the leader. Listen, I'm Like Durant, I'm the most talented guy, but Kevin Wilde's the leader. I'll get you some buckets. But when it comes to planning, when it comes to direction in the show, that's kw. And when it comes to making sure we're on track, we have the conscience of the show brewing. We'd be a great basketball team. Everyone knows their role. So I'm Team KD on this. Who says the most talented guy's got to be the leader? Maybe he wants to hang out and, you know, play video games or play poker.

[Jordan Schultz]

That's right.

[Nick Wright]

Yeah. Each their own. I just show up and get buckets, man. Good to see you.

[Jordan Schultz]

Good to see you. So I. I said this about the Warriors. They become a little bit the old, you know, the adults at the nightclub where everybody's like, who smells like Old Spice? Who doesn't fit here? The NBA.

[Nick Wright]

Me again.

[Jordan Schultz]

Well, the NBA's young and talented. And the Warrior. Butler's 35, Draymond's 35. And it's like, if they lose to Memphis or they lose in the first round, we got to be honest here. It's over. Like, you have to make moves on Kaminga or maybe a Draymond. What if they lose tonight?

[Nick Wright]

Well, if they lose tonight, their season's over. So I mean, that. That's how damaging this week was. Because if they lose tonight, then all the only thing Friday will mean is, did your season end in real disgrace with three straight losses and getting bounced in the play in for the third time in Steph's career, or did you get a reprieve to now get to face a totally rested, totally healthy Oklahoma City team that will run you off the court in round one. So tonight is their biggest game of the year because they lost their previous biggest game of the year on Sunday, which was their biggest game because they blew a game against the spurs in game 80. They had no business losing. But let me say this, Colin. There's a couple things about the Warriors I want to say, so if we could spend a little bit. One is, I owe your dear friend Draymond Green an apology, because nine years ago, Draymond Green in the Western Conference finals, I thought, and I alleged, maybe even on your show, that he intentionally kicked Steven Adams in the groin on a layup, and it led to a flagrant foul, which then led to a suspension in the Finals because of flagrant foul points. And my argument was, no player in league history has ever just kicked their left leg at 90 degrees on an open layup unless they're trying to do something. Nine years later, I'm proven wrong because he did the exact same thing to blow the layup against the Clippers. That's how they lost the game and there was no one to kick. So Draymond, my bad on that. Evidently that's just part of your foul baiting and ended up partially costing him the game. And the other thing I want to say about the warriors, who now you're talking about, is it over? So I, I think Steph Curry is obviously one of the greatest players of all time. I also think that he's in this Goldilocks zone of when he's amazing, we talk about him and when he scores three points against the Rockets, he doesn't make shows. And that I think is really a nice spot to be in the discourse. And he has been kind of universally put in while He's a top 10 all time player. And again, it's in the margins. But I have him at 12. And the reason I'm bringing that up here is something happened at the end of Clippers, warriors that has happened to Steph a bunch in his career and everybody just accepts it. But I think it's the barrier between him and, and the guys who are in the top 10. And that is he was taken off the court by his own head coach because they wanted to go offense, defense, because at the end of a game he is a true defensive liability. And when you look at, again, not that my list is gospel, but what I would say are your 12 greatest players ever, you will notice 11 and 12 have something in common. The top 10 don't. So if you go LeBron, Kareem Michael, Magic, Russell, Wilt, Duncan, Kobe, Bird, aem, and then 11, Shaq, 12, Steph, again, that's no disrespect. You're at a Yokic, you're at a Dr. J, you're at a Moses, you're at a Jerry west, all those guys, Shaq and Steph are the only two guys in that all time top 12 whose own team in huge spots late in games would say, we actually want you to sit this possession for Shaq. Yeah, it was because of free throws. For Steph, it's because of defense. And I do think that has to be part of the story when we talk about the guys who are in the goat conversation who are in the top five, are in the top 10. And so I'll sell that. Say this, I think they might lose tonight, in which case this last week went really, really bad for him.

[Jordan Schultz]

So I I have pushed back. I think it was Stephen A. That started this. That international players, I think can't be the face of the league. I disagree. I said this an Conor McGregor. The UFC was never more popular than when Conor McGregor was the face. Messi is now the face of the mls and I mean literally breaking gate records. I would argue Rory McElroy who stayed with the PGA did not go to the live tour after Sunday. Is the face of golf. I would argue Ovechkin for the last 20 years is an art. The most discussed hockey player with a Sidney Crosby. Ohtani comes up the freeway. I5 is the face of baseball. My take is if the Lakers won A title and LeBron retired Luca, now hear me out. Is the face of the NBA if LeBron retired. Why? Because they'd be a great team. He'd be a Laker. But Luca does something that domestic players do. He trash talks fans.

[Nick Wright]

He trash talks.

[Jordan Schultz]

He's us. He is not the international player that's polite and loyal. He drinks beer after games. They have to take it from. He's yelling at fans. I think he is the face of the league. If LeBron retired him. I think international players can be so.

[Nick Wright]

I think. I think international players definitely can be. And I think that Wimby might eventually be so overwhelmingly great if he fulfills his full potential that he will be. But I've. I agree with you that I think it. It is not really quite been that in my opinion, that these guys are international players as the hurdle. I think the hurdle for face of the League. I. I don't think it's that complicated. I think that the biggest hurdle for everyone is that LeBron and Steph won't retire.

[Jordan Schultz]

That's right.

[Nick Wright]

Like LeBron has been the face of the league for 15 years. Definitively for 10, arguably, probably inarguably since he went to Miami and maybe a little bit before that. Steph over the last seven years has kind of become the co. Face of the league alongside LeBron. No one is going to supplant those guys. So that means Giannis entire reign of winning MVPs and going to the Finals happened when he wasn't even eligible for Face of the league. Because LeBron's there. Joker has no interest in it. It's not because he's international. It's because I think basketball is his second favorite sport to horse racing. He's just better at it. So like, so Joker's not interested. But Luka has the attitude. Luka has the swagger. Luka is polarizing that's another important thing.

[Jordan Schultz]

Yes.

[Nick Wright]

You need people to hate you.

[Jordan Schultz]

Yep.

[Nick Wright]

Like, nobody hates Giannis. Nobody hates Jokic. There are some people that hate Joker or, I'm sorry, that Luca, including, evidently, the guy who runs the maps. And so that is a mistake. And so I agree with that. And now getting to the Lakers and being in these huge playoff spots, I think, yes, he is good enough. He is. Has the right swagger. He is polarizing enough. He. There's enough holes to poke in his game to where he's interesting. Yeah. There is nothing better that could have possibly happened for the league than this player coming to this team in this moment. And it all happened because of the lunacy of one general manager, who, by the way, Colin J. Mac, might include it in the newsletter. Nico Harrison just held an hour ago, his first press conference since the Luca trade. And you know how I know he knows that maybe that trade was a bad decision? He held a press conference with one rule. No TV cameras or microphones. Old school pen and pad. I'll talk to you guys, but you're not getting it on video. So I think he knows this is not going well.

[Jordan Schultz]

I want to talk about something we infrequently talk about. In fact, I'm not sure we ever have, but it goes back to international players, is that I think both you and I. I like progress in sports. I like new stuff, and I'm. I defended the live tour. My takeaway is the PGA was a charity. They don't run the Masters. They don't run the British Open. They don't run many of the biggest events. So I was never loyal to the pga. I was loyal to the players and our governments. You know, has business in the Middle East. Why can't our golfers. I never thought the PGA treated the best golfers with the respect they deserve. So I was for the breakup because I'm for the athlete. And outside of maybe the US Open at Pebble beach and the Masters, I don't watch for the course. I watch for the players. But I was watching Rory this week, and I was thinking to myself, am I into Rory or the Masters? And it was both. But I can't. The last time I was this invested, emotionally engulfed was when Tiger wanted Augusta. And I got super emotional. And I was sitting there watching Rory, and I'm like, wow. Like, I. This is a. Am I going to cry here? I was so into it, and it had a little Michael Jordan feel where I watched him for years get tackled by the Pistons and the Celtics. So I was part of his journey and I felt like I was, I felt, I was like, dude, this is his 17th masters. He's gonna. What was your inter. I, I thought it was the best five hours of television I had seen in so long. Were you as emotionally invested?

[Nick Wright]

Yeah. So let me, let me give you a little insight into me. So Sunday as it happened, Colin was me and my lovely wife's anniversary. Oh, and I don't know how you spent your, you know, wedding anniversary this year, but I spent mine at a sports book in Philadelphia with Clippers warriors on one screen and the Masters on the other. And because she's the greatest woman I've ever known, she understood. I'm like, listen, honey, I didn't. I should have planned out the wedding date better a decade plus ago, but it's the second Sunday in April, which means occasionally it's gotta fall on the Master Sunday. And I thought that round of golf was so perfect to encapsulate his career, which was these moments of such brilliance where you're like, is he the best driver of the golf ball ever? Including Tiger? Like, probably not, but maybe with self inflicted stumbles. He had two of the worst wedge shots I've ever seen a professional golfer make and they were on the back nine of Sunday at Augusta. He tried to play 13 safe, gave himself 80 to get on the green in three and put it in the creek. And then despite all of that, had a seven foot putt to win the Masters and missed that. And despite all of that, came back and won the thing with as good of an approach shot as anyone will ever have on the playoff hole at 18. And for again, there have been six people ever to complete the career Grand Slam. Sarazin Hogan player Nicholas Woods, Rory. Since the moon landing, 12 people have walked the moon up until Sunday. One had completed the career Grand Slam. Tiger woods. And all those other five, Colin, they completed the career Grand Slam on either their first, second or third try at it. For Rory to do it on his dozen attempt to finally break through, and for it not to be smooth sailing for him to be ahead, behind, way ahead, tied, and then blow it and then win it anyway, it's one of the greatest stories in golf history. And when you then remember that the US Open this year and the PGA this year are on courses he has historically done great at.

[Jordan Schultz]

Yes, yes.

[Nick Wright]

And the British is in Northern Ireland.

[Jordan Schultz]

Yeah.

[Nick Wright]

His home. So it could be a really special year for a player who deserves it.

[Jordan Schultz]

Finally I said this. I think we all know this. It doesn't Matter if it's law, real estate, landscaping, you know, there's a, a top 5 or 6%. And I said, if you. In the NFL, as I'm watching the same teams draft at the top of the NFL draft, I said my circle of trust is eight NFL franchises. They're not perfect. They miss on a receiver or a quarterback draft and they'll overpay. But owner, gm, coach, quarterback, Bills, Ravens, Eagles, Lions, Chiefs, Rams, Green Bay, San Francisco, Tier 2. They check a lot of boxes, but I'm not there yet. Denver, Seattle, Chargers, Tampa, I think. I think Tampa for 10 years had a good roster. Minnesota, Houston, Washington. Could go to the tier one, but I need one more year. Am I missing anybody here?

[Nick Wright]

So it's. So I'm not. So tier one is exactly right. I think that's really well done. I, I listen. Tier 2, I'm just curious, all right. Is there a separate professional football league where the Chargers win big games that I don't have access to? Like, I don't know, like I hear.

[Jordan Schultz]

I.

[Nick Wright]

It seems like everyone in sports media gets beamed in different Chargers seasons than me for my entire life. It's like, oh, this is the year. This is. They're so talented. You got to trust franchises. I don't know, man. I've just watched like the, the NFL that I have, there's even a name for doing something the Chargers do. It's called chargering. The NFL that I have, we watch them hire the wrong coach. The wrong coach. We. This time they got the right coach. But even he, you know, hey, Justin Herbert, golden arm. Justin Herbert only throws three picks all year, throws four in a playoff game, and they're going to now win the 8 KFC West. I. I mean, it's just so. I agree with tier one. I just need to figure out. I pay a lot for Sunday ticket. I need that extra tier that gets the second version of these Charger games that everyone else has because I don't have it. The rest I like.

[Jordan Schultz]

All right. I just. I knew that was going to be the soft spot that you attacked. I had a feeling.

[Nick Wright]

Well, exactly. You left your flank unguarded, my friend. I apologize. Apologize. Good to see.

[Jordan Schultz]

First things first, my buddy, Nick Wright. Great stuff as always. Yeah, it's. Well, I like the coach and the quarterback a lot. So. There you go. The. Now that, that Rory stuff was. It just. I don't, you know, it's, it's. There's been these go. So I'm, I'm. I got Jack Nicklaus, but I got. I Feel like I didn't know golf. I grew up in a small town. We didn't have a golf course, so I really wasn't a golfer. I knew Jack's story. I've watched documentaries. I knew Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Tom Kite, you know, I, I knew the guys. But I, I, I do feel like, to a large degree, like Tiger. Not that he introduced me to golf, but I became a big golf fan. I had finally had a little money, I could go golfing on nice courses, blah, blah, blah. So it was Tiger, it was Phil, and then it's all of a sudden it's Brooks, and it's this. And for years and years I was told, oh, this guy's going to be Tiger, this guy's gonna be Tiger, this guy's gonna be Tiger. And I always laughed. There is no other Tiger. He's a Comet. He's one of one. But Rory's always kind of felt like Europe's Tiger. The difference is Tiger's better. But Tiger was almost robotic. If he had a lead, he never lost it. Like, he thought he was just known for years. Tiger leads by four strokes. He'll win it by six or more. And I think there's part of what makes Rory so attractive as a television watch is that like Phil Mickelson, he can shoot his way out of a lead. I mean, this guy had a four stroke lead Sunday and it just disappeared instantly. And I'm like, oh, no, no. And part of what makes sports on TV great is you don't know the outcome. Even when they went to the playoff hole, I'm like, no, Justin Rose going. It, there's just, there's just no way. 18 just, there's no way. It's not going to work. I was almost hoping because I was watching it as a, I was on a plane. I watched every stroke on a plane. Literally, the plane took off, first shot, plane landed, last shot of the playoff. And I was thinking, maybe it's better if my streaming device just goes out. And I don't see it. I'm gonna be so nothing against Justin Rose. I was gonna be so bitter. But it just, I thought it was as good as sports gets. I mean, I've had a few Super Bowls. I felt that way where I was watching. I've had the World cup matches, the World cup final. I felt like I was watching some of the greatest television in the history of my life. I've seen a couple of fights live where I felt that, but that was as good as sports gets. It was just so dramatic. And so gripping and so tense. And to watch Rory McIlroy go to his knees and just a waterfall of emotion, just crying in front of everybody. And, you know, athletes often say, you know, if he would have lost, he would have said, hey, listen, it hurts. But an athlete doesn't want to just say out there, yeah, like, I got to be honest with you, I don't sleep for weeks after this. But his reaction tells you he wouldn't have slept for weeks after that. And for him to be that vulnerable and just, I mean, just go to his knees and cry, it was like, wow, this is. That is one of the iconic moments. If you have 10 pictures of sports. Yeah. If you had landed on a spaceship down here and you say the Martians come in and go, what is sports? And we got. We're going to give you 10 pictures of what sports is. And one of them is maybe Tom Brady's first one when he's looking around in wonderment after his first super bowl, like, what in the hell just happened? One of it's Michael Jordan maybe switching hands in midair.

[Unknown]

Another's Ali beating Liston.

[Jordan Schultz]

Sonny Liston. The 10 pictures, him hitting that putt and dropping to his knees is like, wow, that is an all time gripping emotional moment. And we were all there to see it. Yeah.

[Unknown]

You said something earlier too, that hit me that you can't wait for the British. I wonder, would you have felt that way?

[Jordan Schultz]

Okay, no, I. I love the British. I mean, so.

[Unknown]

No, but I mean, because McElroy wins now, the British.

[Jordan Schultz]

No. I've thought about it for two days. My three favorite golf tournaments, two are annual. One is the Masters, the other is the British. Regardless of where it's played. I love the U.S. open, but I really love it at Pebble. It's like a painting. I mean, nothing against Pinehurst or anywhere else, but when it's at pebble, it just feels. It's such a unique part of our global golf landscape. Right on the coast, the rocks, the water, so much great history there. But to get that at Augusta, it took so long. I was texting somebody yesterday in the NFL and I said this. I said when I watched the Michael Jordan documentary and I've told my kids this, I said Michael was the best looking player, the best player. He had David Stern and Nike behind him and it was just a struggle. He could never win a playoff series without Scottie Pippen. He had the best coach. He had Scotty Pippen. And it was still hard. And Good Will Hunting, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. Are these two kids from Boston. They tried to make that. They tried to get that. Over a decade of movie studios not good enough passing. Everybody looks at Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. Oh, they just walked out to Hollywood. They were stars. 15 years of grinding in Hollywood to get goodwill hunting mate. And Rory McElroy in his. He is a, he is the tiger of Europe, his 17th Augusta. And it almost didn't happen. And I, and I tell my kids this all the time. I don't care where you went to college. I don't care about your resume. The number one quality of success in the world. Are you relentless? Are you. Literally, you're going to step in it, you're going to be denied, you're going to be mocked. People will be mean. It will be hard. Are you relentless? Can you. How do you react to failure? Because MJ failed and Ronaldo's failed and Messi failed a lot and Matt Damon and Ben Affleck got turned down. You know, remember American Idol? You know, the popular show, you know, American Idol was passed on by every American network. Fox eventually came back. It was a 15 year hit or whatever it was. Initially, people weren't willing to take a risk. Nah, it's not going to work here in the States. It was huge in Britain. It's not going to work here. Success is hard, and success at the highest levels, even if you're a prodigy, is so incredibly difficult. The thing that burrows through isn't when you went to college or your agent or your connections. Are you relentless? You just never give up.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices, not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week, we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focused on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Greg Rosenthal]

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents. We'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jordan Schultz]

What's up everyone?

[Colin Cowherd]

Julie Swearbanks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.

[Jordan Schultz]

We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go. The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb. Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop.

[Jordan Schultz]

By to join us. Julie is pretty well connected.

[Unknown]

She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jordan Schultz]

You have to be very careful with tradition because sometimes tradition is just dead people's baggage.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm Jemele Hill, host of the sports and politics podcast Spolitics. On this week's episode, I talked with comedian Roy Wood Jr. About the lack of African American star power in Major League Baseball.

[Jordan Schultz]

Baseball needs an Anthony Edwards, and I don't know who that could be. Mookie Betts is Steph Curry. He's exceptional and likable. Million Dollar Smile. But you also need Chaos Negro.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen to Politics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.