Greg Rosenthal (6:49)

I started to wonder if it would.

Colin Cowherd (6:51)

Ever be my time. And I think, you know, the last 10 years, coming here with the burden of the Grand Slam on my shoulders and trying to achieve that, there was a lot of pent up emotion that just came out on that 18th green.

Frank Reich (7:05)

But, you know, I think, you know.

Colin Cowherd (7:07)

A moment like that makes all the years and all the, all the close calls worth it. I wanted to cry for him. I mean, as a professional, you just.

Rick Bucher (7:16)

Know it hit it in the middle of the green and I can't believe.

Jordan Schultz (7:18)

He went for it or must have.

Rick Bucher (7:19)

Just flared it, but I've had bad shots in my career too, so it happens. And when you're trying to win a major championship, especially out here, Sunday of Augusta, the Masters, you have to, you have to just do it and get.

Jordan Schultz (7:34)

The job done and do it right.

Colin Cowherd (7:35)

There were times where it looked like.

Rick Bucher (7:36)

He had full control and times I was like, well, what's going on?

Colin Cowherd (7:40)

And that is what makes Rory McElroy as fascinating as anybody in golf. I've always said this about Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was the best looking. He'd be easy not to like. He was the coolest. The style, the earring, the smile, handsome, great, be easy not to like. But you watched him struggle, so you were invested in the Journey with Michael. He wasn't the chosen one at 16. He was cut by his high school coach. LeBron's less likable. Jordan's incredibly likable. Tiger at times was robotic great early dominating for a decade and chasing somebody like LeBron that we loved Jack Nicklaus. But Rory is different. There's a little MJ there. We have watched the struggle. I'm hoping Augusta is the first of many, but that 10 year gap so symbolizes what makes him so incredibly embraceable. Way to go, Rory. All right, so yesterday, NBA playoffs are going to be interesting. East is set, Cavs, Celtics are great. West is all log jammed. So yesterday the warriors need to win biggest game of the year, they don't. And now they're forced tomorrow to play a play in game. So listen, I think Jimmy Butler's a playmaker. He's tough, he gets to the free throw line, he's good for Steph Curry, but the honeymoon is over. He made more free throws in Golden State than field goals since he's arrived. Okay? So let's be realistic about it. Pat Riley does not move off many players. Pat Riley's as good a personal guy as the league has had in my life outside of maybe Red Auerbach, and they moved off him and he's got a shorter contract and it's not as punitive, not as prohibitive as he wanted in Miami. But the reality is, despite the fact that Jimmy Butler's made him relevant and he's good for staff, they've got a bigger problem. Once again, a young warrior. Jonathan Kaminga did not play. Coach's decision. James Wiseman, Jordan Poole, Jonathan Kaminga, an immature D'Angelo Russell. Young guys, squirrely guys or immature guys don't fit here. If Kaminga gave you 21 a night and could play at the same time as Steph Draymond Butler, he'd be on the floor. But it tells you what Kerr thinks of Kaminga and what he thought of Wiseman and Jordan Poole and D'Angelo Russell was in and out of town quickly. If you look at the history of the dynasty, it's very much like the Patriots, Brady and Steph. One overwhelming transcendent superstar who mostly plays very, very well with older players. Andrew Bogut, Andre Iguodala, Kevin Durant. You can bring the old guys in here and it works. Now, Jimmy Butler is an additive, there's no question. But because Kaminga doesn't work when Draymond, Steph and and Butler are all on the floor, the question is, what do we get From Jimmy Butler. He's shooting about 28% from 3 point territory. And it looks like. And the Kaminga thing, we were all kind of waiting off the injury to see how it would work. And Steve Kerr made a decision yesterday. I'm not even going to play him. So it looks like the ceiling is very apparent for the Warriors. Yes, Jimmy Butler absolutely saved the regular season. He's relevant, a playmaker, gets to the free throw line tough and helps Steph. Those are all boxes that are checked for Jimmy Butler. But again, in this dynasty like Brady just did not work with young receivers. Bring in Randy Moss, it's magic. Bringing a Deion Branch again, it works. But you draft the kid in the first round. Nikhil Harry, a Chad Jackson, it doesn't work. Brady wants to win now. He's not going to be your babysitter. He's not going to teach you how to run routes. And with the warriors offense, young guys can struggle to find their footing. And it looks like Kaminga will not be part of the future. Although it seems like the only way they could win a series a seven gamer against the Houston against the Lakers would be if OKC Houston, if Kaminga played. But yesterday not playing him, coach's decision tells you no, it's not going to work. Butler, Stephen, Draymond, pods, they're going to have a ceiling. Here was Jimmy on the playing game. We got a lot of really good basketball players around this locker room. Key in what we're trying to do. I like the confidence that he has in myself. I also have that same amount of confidence. So I know that I and we have a job to do and I know that we're capable of doing it. So play in. Here we come. Well, playing game is tomorrow against the Wizards. Again the Western Conference. Oklahoma City pulled away. Houston's a little bit ahead of the group, but then it's Lakers for the next four or five teams are all very close playing game. I'll take the warriors over Memphis. I just don't trust the Grizzlies in big spots. But quite a day yesterday watching golf. I was, I was thinking about this. There's been a handful of moments in my life I've overwhelmingly and this is why I supported the live tour. I watch for golfers, I don't watch for courses. But there is something magical about a U.S. open at Pebble Beach. There is something magical about Augusta and the undulating course and the challenges and we got all of it. Yesterday I. I was talking to Ryan on the staff this morning. I watched Every stroke. Like most of you did yesterday. I cannot remember being on pins and needles for four hours. And that was Rory. Right. Like when he pulled away early, there was no tension. No tension. And then he quickly lost that lead. Of course he did. Because that's what makes him such a wildly entertaining spectacle. Colin, what's so cool about Rory? You mentioned the resilience. How about what he said to his daughter in front of everyone else? I know we'll probably get to it in more detail later, but never give up on your dreams. That was him in many ways, talking to himself. You mentioned the decade long odyssey of trying to win another major. For him to do it and to complete it, and the manner in which he did. I personally felt guilty to. He choked. It's over. When he went to the playoff, especially Justin Rose having already lost one, I figured that's it. Just this is Justin Rose's time. I felt the same way. I felt they go to the narrowest, the narrowest grief airway. And I thought, oh boy. All right. But yet yesterday, if you watch Rory in Saturday too, in some of those moments where you had doubt, he delivered. Yeah, it was when he got conservative that he at times buckled. By the way, this just came down. Mike Budenholzer fired Phoenix Suns head coach. We didn't love the fit to start with, so he's on his way out. There's a total rebuild there. Personnel roster, coaching. Phoenix just fired their head coach. Playoffs begin in earnest. Yes, tomorrow, Memphis and Golden State. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio Apple. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture.

Jordan Schultz (15:22)

Stories that, well, other shows don't seem.

Colin Cowherd (15:24)

To have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right?

Jordan Schultz (15:30)

So check us out.

Colin Cowherd (15:31)

We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Ko Vino and.

Jordan Schultz (15:50)

Rich wherever you get your podcast.

Colin Cowherd (15:51)

And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

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Jeremy Hobson (16:27)

We live in a divided country.

Colin Cowherd (16:29)

I am a lifelong Republican with all.

Jeremy Hobson (16:31)

Kinds of different people.

Colin Cowherd (16:33)

You know, I'm a mother. I'm a grandmother.

Jeremy Hobson (16:36)

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

Frank Reich (16:44)

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

Jeremy Hobson (16:46)

Each week we bring together an all Star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

Colin Cowherd (16:51)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (16:51)

Jeremy Neil DeGrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

Rick Bucher (16:54)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (16:55)

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

Frank Reich (16:59)

Hi, my name is Venkat.

Colin Cowherd (17:01)

I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

Jeremy Hobson (17:03)

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

Colin Cowherd (17:12)

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary? And what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

Jeremy Hobson (17:19)

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (17:26)

What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Rick Bucher (17:55)

In 1978, Roger Caron's first book was published and he was unlike any first time author Canada had ever seen.

Colin Cowherd (18:03)

Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted, has spent 24 of those years, years in jail, 12 years in solitary. He went from an ex con to a literary darling almost overnight. He was instantly a celebrity, he was an adrenaline junkie and he was the star of the show.

Rick Bucher (18:23)

Goboy is the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable.

Colin Cowherd (18:29)

I had a knife in my stomach, puncture my spleen, break my rib.

Rick Bucher (18:33)

I had my guts all in my.

Colin Cowherd (18:34)

Hands only to find himself back where he started. Roger's saying is, I've never hurt anybody but myself. And I said, oh, you're so wrong. You're so wrong on that one. Rod from Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts.

Frank Reich (18:49)

Listen to GoBoy on the iHeartRadio app.

Rick Bucher (18:52)

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Colin Cowherd (18:58)

Leads the Dodgers against Corey Seager and the Rangers or Nolan Arenado in the Cardinals battle Juan Soto and the.

Jeremy Hobson (19:04)

Mets at 4 Eastern on Fox.

Colin Cowherd (19:07)

Check local listings for the game in your area. Dodgers can't hit. I go on vacation for 10 days. Dodgers can't hit. Don't know what it is. Albert Brer, top of next hour. Colin, right? Colin Wrong on a Monday. So draft week is next week. We talked a lot about Rory McElroy and, and that led our show today and probably led every sports show in the country. Just remarkable. I was sitting there on Saturday morning, I went out golfing because whenever golf is one of those sports, like I can watch basketball and not want to go out and play basketball. I can watch football and not want to go out and play football. But there is something about golf is when I'm watching a great tournament, I want to go to the practice range or I want to go play with buddies. And I went out and played and it was just, you know, it's just a topic of conversation. How remarkable Rory is and I, and I think it really does matter is that like, you know, LeBron James will never be as popular as Michael Jordan. And there's a lot of reasons for that and that's not necessarily a shot at him, but he was the chosen one. And you know, we, we, there's so much LeBron, there's very few secrets with Michael Jordan. He was sort of for the most popular sports figure in America. He was kind of private in his personal life. He didn't have Instagram, it wasn't TikTok. It wasn't that generation. There was no Google and YouTube and Michael Jordan, again, people forget this, that he won as a freshman at North Carolina. He stayed at Carolina for two years and one year couldn't even beat in state rival NC State. Right? So. And then we saw the Pistons and the Celtics tackle him. So you shared in the pain and the journey and Michael crying when he finally won his title. And that's what's great about Rory. You know, there's a, there's a movie, Good Will Hunting, which almost all of you have seen. And people come out to Hollywood and they just forget how hard it is. It could be David Letterman's story, it could be Michael Keaton's story. It's Affleck and Damon. It took them over a decade to sell that script and get that movie made. And just watching at Augusta, the 17th trip for Europe's Tiger, Europe's golf prodigy took 17 trips. And it's just once again, it sort of is a reminder that success is really hard, even for the gifted. When you watch that 10 part Michael Jordan documentary, remember watching that during COVID Thank God for that or I don't know how we would have filled three hours. But I remember telling my kids he was the best looking player. He was the best player. He was in Chicago, a big city. The commissioner loved him, Nike loved him. Everything was there for Michael. But he was battling with the gm. The ownership was cheap. Rodman's going to Vegas for weekends and disappearing. He couldn't win with Stan Albrecht or enough with Doug Collins. Then it's Phil Jackson who asked him to be more of a leader and trust teammates. So he did and he finally won. But we all shared in Michael's journey. He wasn't the chosen one. He wasn't a prodigy. He was cut from high school basketball team. He was the number three pick. And so it just makes Michael more likable, is that you saw him get tackled by the Pistons for years and he couldn't beat those great Celtic teams. That's Rory. This kid has been like, he is bad. I mean, it's so funny. There's been so many because Tiger was so great that, you know, we were all waiting for the next Tiger. And it's like, guys, there's not going to be a next Tiger. We were kind of lucky in basketball where Kobe had a lot of the elements and components of Michael. Cool, good looking, stylish, but with Rory McIlroy, I think we found about as close to Tiger as you're going to get, which is an athlete tough. But the difference is Michael was almost robotic. He would never lose a lead. And that's why a lot of people preferred Mickelson and his story, because Mickelson could be reckless and play himself out of a major. I never feel with Rory, it's reckless. He's just got the kind of personality, and it's strange, but sometimes it feels like he loses confidence. And so it was so fitting that he had to go to a playoff hole. And I didn't think he was going to win. I thought, no, it's Justin Rose. You could tell it about when Justin was on the 13th or 14th hole. You're like. And I know you're all sitting there thinking, is Justin Rose. What a buzzkill. He's gonna win this thing. It's not gonna be DeChambeau. It's not gonna be Ro. I'm gonna have to sit here for four hours, and Justin Rose is gonna win it. And that's nothing against Justin Rose. But I was like, give me a break. What a buzzkill. And so it was only fitting. And so maybe just my pessimism. I thought, oh, this. This is heartbreaking. This is just heartbreaking. And then, you know, he hits that drive, then approach shot, nails the putt. Just a rem. I'm interested to see the TV ratings today. Nobody cares. But I would guess, by the way, the Masters app is fantastic. I would guess the ratings are through the roof. It was just. Just. I couldn't take my eyes. You don't even have to be a golf fan. You don't have to be a golf fan. That was just my shoulders. I need. I need a massage. My shoulders are tight. And it was so absolutely appropriate that it went to a playoff hole. The quiet guy, Justin Rose. And then here's Rory. Had it, lost it, had it, tied it, playoff won it. And you just see that waterfall of emotion come out. And I'll tell you, just so emotional watching that. The Augusta patrons, they won't let you call it a gallery if you're a broadcaster. And Jim Nance and the CBS crew, tip of the cap. I thought you did a remarkable job. Such great storytelling from your crew. You know, 50 years ago, Jack Nicholas, a great way to romanticize it. Look at the tradition, but stay current. But the gallery always has a favorite, and it was very easy early. Remember when it started out and DeChambeau was giving high fives to the gallery, and he's more of a. He's a slower player and Rory, like, they're both power players, but Rory likes to get up and go and move and move. And DeChambeau has more pace, but they're both big, powerful guys. So there was a feeling like DeChambeau was going to like, irritate Rory and take his time and go back and look at things and slow the pace. But DeChambeau, who by the way, was great until yesterday on the greens, but his game's a bit of a mess. It unraveled multiple times. He had distance issues the whole weekend, but he was so great on the greens until yesterday. He stayed around. Rory's game was much, much better. He just had weird holes and weird shots. But early I thought the crowd was into DeChambeau, but about the third or fourth or fifth hole, they really pivoted to backing Rory. And I thought it was just great. Great. Always trust the Augusta crowd. They're giving you the vibe there. They're telling you what the energy is. They did this. Remember when Tiger won his last Masters? Or with Mickelson. I always trust the patrons. They're telling you just if you watch Augusta, they'll tell you the vibe of the tournament by who they're pulling for. It was DeChambeau as he came out. He's like a pro wrestler. He's high five and he's leaning into it. And about the third or fourth hole, everybody moved over to Rory and it was great. Okay, so I promised I was going to do this. So it is not a great quarterback draft, but there's about five or six guys that I think are worth just addressing. And I'm just going to tell you, lay it out here. Ryan says he assures me we're taping this. It will be. It's an archive, but I'm going to give you my feeling on six quarterbacks that everybody's talking about in this draft. So the first guy is Cam Ward, who I do think offensive coach, good old line, weak division. He's a playmaker, a super fluid athlete. He was a no star recruit, by the way. He went to a place called Incarnate Word, which sounds like a term of philosophy professor uses and you never know what it means. But it's. It's a college, no star recruit, I think in that division with that staff and that offensive line. He's a playmaker. He'll win games. Is he transformational? I don't know. Plays a lot of hero ball, but there's something there and he should be your number One quarterback prospect, Shador Sanders. I like him more than NFL general managers. He's a very smart decision maker and super composed and accurate but he's not he doesn't have a huge arm, he doesn't have a lot of physical traits that are impressive and he gets sacked a lot in college. Some of that's o line, some of it he holds it too long. My take is he will be as good as the coaching staff and his protection. So if he gets the staff, the offensive coach, it'll be fine. If not, it won't be much to write home about. Number three is Jackson Dart folks. I see Zach Wilson with the Jets. His best games were against Duke, Georgia Southern and Furman. At Zach Wilson he's impressive. Good looking kid, confident under Lane Kiffin system but in big games wasn't consistently accurate, wasn't great with pressure. Also Ole Miss has big time talent so I, I this feels like Zach Wilson where he's going to blow you away with his confidence. He's got a little bit of an arm but he was inaccurate in big games. I don't think he sees the field particularly well. I don't think he's an anticipation thrower where I think Shador Sanders is. So I don't see it. But he'll get drafted in the first round enough GMs like him. Jalen Milroe, Alabama. Great kid, physical specimen. He is too mechanical to ever be a great professional quarterback, but I do think he's a much better version of Anthony Richardson. Again, he's inconsistent. You know you're getting in the 50% completion percentage in on third and fourth down in the NFL if you're not good in the two minute drill or on third down when everybody knows you're throwing, you're not a franchise quarterback for very long. But I do think because he's such a good kid, he's such a hard worker and he throw, he's got some unbelievable traits. Somebody's going to give him a chance to start in this league. But again he's really mechanical. He's not terribly fluid and I think there's limitation. Tyler Schuck out of Louisville. Don't get it. Too many injuries in college. Big kid who can throw it looks the part. But remember he's older than Trevor Lawrence right now. So the college kids that stay in college forever, you know, again he's going to be 27 here pretty quickly are playing against 20 year olds and 21 year olds. So a little overvalued to me. And then Kyle McCourt at Syracuse, who I've been saying now for three months, I think he's the sleeper. Good in big games, anticipation thrower, moves well enough. Accurate, highly productive at Ohio State, had that win against Notre Dame. I like him. I think there's an argument he's the second best quarterback in this class. Kyle McCourt at Syracuse, formerly of Ohio State. He's my sleeper. Cam's the best and Shedeur will be as good as where he lands. All right, Colin right? Colin wrong on a Monday. Good to be back live in Los Angeles, it's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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Jeremy Hobson (31:12)

We live in a divided country.

Colin Cowherd (31:14)

I am a lifelong Republican with all.

Jeremy Hobson (31:16)

Kinds of different people.

Colin Cowherd (31:17)

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

Jeremy Hobson (31:20)

That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

Frank Reich (31:28)

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

Jeremy Hobson (31:31)

Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

Rick Bucher (31:35)

Thanks for having me. Jeremy.

Jeremy Hobson (31:37)

Neil Degrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

Rick Bucher (31:38)

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Hobson (31:39)

And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

Frank Reich (31:44)

Hi, my name is Venkat.

Colin Cowherd (31:46)

I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

Jeremy Hobson (31:48)

And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

Colin Cowherd (31:56)

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

Jeremy Hobson (32:04)

Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (32:10)

What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. We ready to fight?

Colin Cowherd (32:41)

I'm ready to fight. Is that. I thought it was. Oh, this is Fighting Words.

Greg Rosenthal (32:45)

Okay, I'll put the hammer back.

Colin Cowherd (32:49)

Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a bestselling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. And that's what we are doing on Fighting Words. We're not going to let anyone silence us. That's the reason why they're banning books like yours, George.

Frank Reich (33:09)

That's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of black history or queer history. Any history that challenges the whitewashed norm.

Colin Cowherd (33:16)

Or put us in a box. Black people never, ever depended on the so called mainstream to support us. That's why we are great. We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Ah, here we go, hour two. It is a Monday live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. So. Oh, interesting. I had, I was in Chicago over the weekend. You know, they're all fired up about the Bears, Jordan Schultz joining us, and a lot of people are asking about Aaron Rodgers, who will be in our right and wrong. And I think Aaron is being very smart and calculated. He's going to wait for the draft and figure out where the dominoes fall. He's not going to do a Kirk Cousins sign with a team and then the team drafts a quarterback. It's like, what's the point? So I think, I actually think Aaron Rodgers and I told everybody, I said, my take is the Steelers is fool's gold. He knows that defensive culture. And so it's here we are waiting for Aaron Rodgers, which again, it's his last team, so I don't blame him. If it's your last job, your last contract, take your time. Say no to a bunch of people. All right. We do it every Monday, calling right Colin wrong. And here we go, where Colin was right. The joker, Nikola Jokic. After Kareem second best center I've ever seen. His numbers this year, third player ever to average a triple double. Totally authentic. He didn't work the stats. He just had his best season ever. 30, 12 and 10. He kept the franchise afloat. I don't know if they have another title, but the truth is, because optics and artistic impression matters in the NBA, that he's not wildly popular because his game sometimes is a little clunky and awkward. But take out Kareem, that's the best center in league history. Where Colin was wrong, I thought the warriors would find themselves with a number two or number three seed, but Jimmy Butler just didn't provide enough offense. And Kaminga doesn't work. They lost three of their last five. They got eaten alive yesterday in overtime by James Harden and the Clippers. And I gotta, I gotta say I was wrong on this. I thought they'd end up because of their experience, Butler getting the team to the free throw line and their added toughness. But in the end they've got limitations and they don't know what the hell to do with Kaminga because he doesn't play well with Draymond or Butler where they're on the floor. So I was wrong. On the warriors where Collin was right, the Suns missed the playoffs, KD makes another poor decision, and Mike Budenholzer gets fired. I appreciated the swing, but let's be completely frank about this. Kevin Durant's won two playoff series in five years since he left the warriors, and he is just too remarkable an NBA player for that to be true. I hated the move away from Golden State. Everybody said he just wants to ball, but he's now just become a really talented bounce around the league guy, which is beneath him. Where Colin was wrong, the Clippers are in the playoffs. I didn't love the Kawhi extension. He's been on fire. I didn't like letting Paul George go. His season was a mess. James Harden I was done with. Boy, was he good yesterday. He played great down the stretch and this team suddenly on fire. Kawhi Leonard is playing. He's great. He's a get a bucket guy and yesterday warriors couldn't stop him. Clippers are now in the playoffs, so I didn't like all their moves. They've got a lot of older guys and sometimes older guys just don't treat the regular season in the NBA with a great deal of urgency. But they got a great coach and played with some of it down the stretch. And here we are where Colin was right. I always said John Morant's going to be Derrick Rose, a small guy that can't shoot that will force him to score at the rim. And he's going to get banged up and have injuries. Add in immaturity. He's in trouble with the league again for some hand grenade, you know, move, which didn't bother me much. But it is what it is and Ja Morant has sort of become what we predicted. Fun to watch, but I'm not going to build my franchise around him as a number one. And injuries. If you're under six three A John Wall, a Russell Westbrook, a John Moran, a Derrick Rose and you're not a great perimeter shooter, well, you've got to score at the rim. What does that mean? Collisions, what does that mean? Injuries. It's the way it always works. Where Colin was wrong, I think Shador Sanders in a bad quarterback draft is good enough to go two or three. But the odds out of Vegas, say the Saints with a number nine pick and the Steelers with a number 21 pick. That's where he's going. So now I would agree that he doesn't have a lot of special, he doesn't have a big arm, he's not super mobile. But I do think there's value in the fact that he's accurate, composed. His dad was a pro athlete and he did not have a good old line or a run game at Colorado. So he has had to initiate offense. And let's be honest, when you look at how bad the O line was, the fact that he completed 74% of his throws and he actually played really well in games against really good teams with much better players. So I think he's a little bit better than the NFL people think. But he's moving down according to the odds makers where Colin was right. I told you, Aaron Rodgers doesn't buy Pittsburgh. It's fool's gold. Defensive coach 2 needy receivers battle line lost Najee Harris and here we are. Aaron Rodgers is just waiting it out. I think it's the right move. I believe he wants to go to San Francisco if the Purdy contract doesn't work or Minnesota. I think he's right to want that. I think Aaron's too smart to make an impulsive, dumb decision. And I don't buy Pittsburgh for Aaron Rodgers. I think at his core he's a NFC north or a West coast guy. He's got a beautiful place in Malibu, trains in Thousand Oaks. I don't think he should sign with Pittsburgh. I never thought he would sign with Pittsburgh or At least, at least didn't feel that way. With great conviction and I think he's making the right move where Colin was raw. I thought the Dodgers roster, especially the batting order, maybe the greatest since the 75 Cincinnati Reds. They're hitting.225. They're third in their division. They lost 16 nothing to the Cubs Saturday. They lost their third straight series. They're not hitting at all. Now this is a little bit on brand for the Dodgers who tend to pick up steam mid season and beyond. And they did just win the World Series and there is no real urgency in 162 game schedule. But they're struggling in the bullpen and they are struggling at the plate hitting only.225, which, which is 8. Maybe they need more torpedo bats. Whatever it is, the Dodgers aren't playing or hitting particularly well. Colin right? Colin Wrong on a Monday. And with that Albert Brer Monday morning quarterback joining us live. So, I mean I, I want to touch on the Aaron Rodgers thing and I, and I, I think Aaron's a smart guy and I think when you're gonna sign your last deal in any profession that saying no is powerful and making the right decision. Aaron's not desperate. He's got a lot of money. And, and I'll, I said this two weeks ago. You don't want to do a Kirk Cousins where you rush and then your team drafts a quarterback. I kind of like what Aaron's doing. I think he wants to play in Minnesota, actually. What do you make of the drama? Do you think the Steelers are upset? Where do we sit now with Aaron's choice and where are the Steelers?

Frank Reich (41:27)

Well, no, I think you're right on, on, on Aaron wanting to play in Minnesota, Colin. And you know, the Vikings have been told as much and so the Vikings made the decision that they are going to at the very least give JJ McCarthy the entire spring and see where he's at at the end of that. There's obviously some unknown coming back off the knee injury. He lost four months of development time. They still think very highly of him, but, you know, like they again are dealing with a bit of an unknown here. And the problem for a now is are you banking on that, Are you banking on a young guy not playing to playing to his potential over the course of the next two months? That's not really a plan. Meanwhile, you have the Steelers who have been patient to this point, but do you get to the start of OTAS in May and now you're talking about a team that's really got to get a quarterback in there because that's not a rebuilding group. Like, that's a team with a bunch of wind now, players like T.J. watt and make a Fitzpatrick and D.K. metcalf and Cam Hayward and so on and so forth. So the timing of this is a little wonky because the Steelers timetable is completely different than the Vikings timetable. And if he were to walk away for the Steelers and say the Steelers trade for Kirk Cousins at the beginning of May and that option comes off the table, well, he's not guaranteed that the Vikings option will be there in the middle of June. So it's, it's a little bit of a weird spot to be in. I do think he wants to play. He's given, you know, he's given people. He gave the jets this indication. He's given the Steelers this indication that he does want to play in 2025. I don't think retirement's completely off the table, but, you know, the way his options set up right now is with some wonky timing.

Colin Cowherd (43:08)

You know, I look at this quarterback class and usually I'm so fired up for the draft and I'll watch every, like the Masters yesterday, I'll watch it. I'll watch the whole weekend. And I do think Cam Ward is a pretty obvious number one pick. But tell me the momentum of it. You know, as we get to the draft, sometimes you get impulsive owners, impulsive general managers. I could see Cleveland, I said this. Whenever you inherit or get a bad quarterback deal like a Russell Wilson in Denver or Deshaun Watson, the way out of it is draft a quarterback and hit on him and, or, or trade down and just accumulate a bunch of picks and hit on them. So you have cheap labor for four to five years. I could see Cleveland just literally trading down, getting 12 draft picks and saying, our only way out of this, we'll get Kyle McCord in the second round. We got to get cheap. I mean, Cleveland to me is the team I can see taking a huge trade down swing. Your thoughts on that. Is there a team that that scenario works for?

Frank Reich (44:17)

So here's the problem, like, and I think this is sort of a logistical issue when it comes to trading around in the top of the first round of this draft is you have two guys that are seen as far above the rest of the class when you're talking about non quarterbacks and Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter after that, I mean, there are 12, 15 players that a lot of teams see as virtually the same. And all of those guys might have been the 15th, 16th, 17th pick in last year's draft. So if you're Cleveland, you're looking at it and you're saying, well, if we trade down to say five or six or seven, that's the equivalent of trading down to 15 or 20 last year, well then you're going to want us that sort of value coming back. And if you're going to pay that premium for a non quarterback, like do you view Travis Hunter or Abdul Carter worth that to come up for? So I just think the legit, the logistics of the way the class sets up is going to make it difficult to move around in the top of the first round. I don't think Cleveland's going to take make a quarterback second overall. My guess would be right now Travis Hunter. If not, I, I'm almost certain it would be Abdul Carter and then they'll double back in the quarterback position in the second or third round. I think they'd be open to the idea of moving back, but I think it would take a lot for another team to come up from even the bottom of the top 10. And you know, if that team's looking at coming up for Carter or Hunter, I don't know if they would pay a quarterback premium to come up and do that.

Colin Cowherd (45:45)

So Nico Iamaliava, quarterback at Tennessee, says, hey, that guy at Duke that just transferred from Tulane, he's making 4 million. I want 4 million to play for Tennessee. And so now they'll probably be a bidding war whether he's worth it or not. Tennessee drives $149 million in revenue last year. There's about six programs, Ohio State's one of them. Tennessee, Georgia, they just drive massive numbers Texas football. And I listen, I blame the ncaa, not the kid. The reason that UFC has grown and boxing has largely died is, let's be honest, it's the people at the top, it's Dana White and no governing body that you could depend on in boxing. And so I think this is on the ncaa. They've been playing catch up with the nil. There's not enough guardrails and guidelines and rules. I don't blame the kid. But when you talk to people about this and manned up a Buckeye, who knows? I mean he's going to have a market. Would this, does this hurt him in the eyes of the NFL?

Frank Reich (46:44)

I would say yes. And it's not like any sort of death nail, but I think from a developmental standpoint, you know, you do question what this is going to look like. He's already through spring practice. So he's going to be jumping on a moving train with another team. He was a good, not great player at Tennessee last year. He's got talent. Yes, but. But like, does that mean he's going to be a fifth or sixth round pick or a fifth or sixth pick in the draft? I think a lot of that is still to be determined because he is so young and he doesn't have a lot of experience. Then of course, there's the bigger picture question here, which is if you, if this guy gets to a point three years into his career, four years into his career, where he's not happy with his contract, how quickly does he start making noise about that? Because this isn't the first time we've heard about this sort of stuff from Nico. It actually happened the first time when he was in high school. How are you going to manage the people? Those would be questions for any player. And those questions are asked at a higher level when you're talking about the guy who's supposed to be the tone setter for your entire organization at quarterbacks. So, yeah, I mean, I think this does affect the way that the NFL will look at Nico. Obviously, a lot's going to ride on, on however he plays at UCLA or wherever else he winds up. And a big part of it is because he is a quarterback and because quarterbacks are held to a higher standard. So I think there's a whole set of new questions that NFL teams would have for Nico that they didn't have a week ago. Now, that said, the good news is he still has 1, 2, 3 more seasons to clean all that up. He'll have a full draft process to take care of it whenever he comes out. But certainly it just feels to me like the waters have gotten a little bit more murky on what this kid would be as an NFL prospect.

Colin Cowherd (48:35)

Yeah, I'll be honest, I watched a lot of Tennessee football games. I like him. I think he's super. I think he, I think, you know, like, he's like. It's like watching a young NBA prospect where you're like, he doesn't have his jumper down, but boy, there's a lot there. Well, he's.

Frank Reich (48:48)

Here's a good example. Colin.

Colin Cowherd (48:49)

Colin.

Frank Reich (48:50)

This is what Cam Ward was last year. Like, there were a lot of these things going on with Cam Ward with his transfer from Washington State to Miami last year, and there were a lot of people around him and a lot of questions with that. Right. He played so well, it didn't matter, like, if he had come out last year. He probably would have been a fifth or sixth round pick. You saw the flashes of what he wound up becoming at Miami, but they were few and far between. He got around better teammates and a better program and all of a sudden he became way more consistent with what he was doing. And now that NFL teams have had the chance to sit down with him and talk with him, they've become more comfortable with him. Obviously the Titans are pretty comfortable with where they're at, potentially taking him first overall. So you can come out of this and look great, but it takes handling the situation the way Cam Moore did and whether or not dico can do that remains to be seen.

Colin Cowherd (49:40)

By the way, the of all the movement and you know, social media has created some cryptic posts and their TJ Watt had a little bit of one. And I don't think this is crazy to say this, I have suggested this is that I think the Kansas City and Rams model is kind of the way to do it, which is pay for your offense, draft your defense. You can pay for a great pass rusher, a Miles Garrett or maybe a TJ Watt or a Chris Jones, but mostly keep your defense young and twitchy. That side of the ball gets hurt more. Keep them young and athletic, pay for your quarterback, left tackle, star receiver, center. You know, Bears doing this. By the way, they paid some money for offense and I think it will pay dividends. The Steelers, Cincinnati, like that's the way to me is the way to do it is let just draft defense. When you see the little cryptic TJ Watt social media post, generally that stuff has legs. I'm sorry, but there is a smoke fire thing. The Watt family isn't going to just make stuff up to tweak their employer. What did you make of that?

Frank Reich (50:52)

Well, one thing I've learned is to never not pay attention to this stuff, right? Because I mean these guys are, these guys are so cognizant of it. I mean at this point most of the guys in the NFL grew up with it, right? Like grew up, up with social media in a way that you and I didn't, Colin. And so they're very savvy and have an understanding that everything they say and do is going to have a reaction. Especially somebody who's been in the NFL for as long as T.J. watt has. So I think you'd be dumb not to look at this and think that this isn't some kind of message that he's trying to send to the Steelers. That said, when you flip over open your calendar book, what does it say? It says April. Right. Like, so they've still got a lot of time this out, obviously. I think it's. It's like a little bit of a window into where the Steelers are. And I think it's part of why Aaron Rodgers does match up well with the rest of the makeup of the roster and much better than he did with the Giants. And you and I have talked about this before. The Giants were basically asking Aaron Rodgers to do what the jets asked him to do, which was lift a group of young players up and take a group of young players to the next level. Whereas with the Steelers is he's got a bunch of players who are as close to peers as you're going to get for Aaron Rodgers in the NFL and in guys like Watt and Fitzpatrick and Hayward and Metcalf, guys who are on their third contracts are in their 30s. And again, like, this is sort of a window into where the Steelers are. The way the Watt situation is playing out, where, you know, you've got a lot of guys that are in the last bite of the apple or are looking to win right now. And so, you know, the Steelers obviously have a lot to work through here. I'd assume the TJ Watt thing get of in time. This is an early warning shot that things might not be in a great place, but they've got a lot of time to work that out. And I think getting some clarity at the quarterback position will probably help Locket a little bit more comfortable with signing up for some more in Pittsburgh as well.

Colin Cowherd (52:48)

All right, Albert Brern on Monday. Appreciate you stopping by, my man.

Frank Reich (52:52)

All right, thanks, Colin.

Colin Cowherd (52:53)

Yeah, the. I think the Tennessee kid's really talented. I just think the reality is he's got some leverage. And again, when you're at these Ohio states in Tennessee and the school makes 150 million, the coach is making 12, got coordinators making a million and a half on the defensive side. And he's like, I'm the quarterback. Duke's got a guy from Tulane making four. I think he's really talented kid. He's. Again, he's young. He's just. It's. I mean, very few NBA prospects come into the league as great shooters, great athletes and great shooters. Very few guys come into the NFL refined like they've got talent, but. But, you know, it's just, it's. It's. I mean, go look at Brady's growth or Joe Montana's growth or it's just the reality of it. When I watch Nico play, I'm like that kid. I mean, he sees the field. We. Oh, when we show even those tapes, we show he can see the whole field. He's got a nice arm, he's got a good touch. He was just against good team. This defense. Tennessee was sort of led by its coaching and its defense, not its offense. But that's because he's a kid. But if you watch him play, he moves well, got great size, you know, he's got a whip of an arm. He's just really inconsistent. But, but again, this was a team that was built on defense, so. But this idea that, oh, he doesn't deserve it. Well, what does deserve mean? What, what, what does that mean, deserve it? I mean, I'm. I'm in front of the camera. What do I deserve? What do my producers deserve? I don't even know what that. I don't know what earn or deserve mean. He's a quarterback who led his team to the playoff in an unbelievable football conference as a kid with very, you know, little big game college experience. And he was inconsistent when I watched him, but would you be shocked if he came back and lit it up and did a Cam Ward? And next year we're talking about this kid at another program. If he went to an Ohio State or, you know, wherever he goes, and all of a sudden you look up and you're. I mean, if Kyle McCord can leave Ohio State and lead NCAA football in passing yards, this kid can play. You can say what you want. You don't have to love the timing, and you don't have to love his dad's advice. I totally get that. But until the ncaa, you know, bargains this out and figures it out and puts in rules and guidelines, you're gonna see more of this stuff. Don't blame the kid. What's the saying? Don't, hey, don't hate the player, hate the game, or, you know, whatever. My mic's not going to play or hate the game. Yeah. So the game by the NCAA is an inept leadership group that has been playing catch up with the transfer portal in the nil. And remember 10 years ago, one of the biggest debates in sports was is Pete Rose, should he ever get into the hall of Fame and should you pay college football players? Those were the two big yes and yes. Yes. And I mean, when I was doing this 15 years ago, if it was a slow day that got the phones going. So the NCAA had had 15 years to figure this out, then California passes legislation, then here comes the avalanche, and the NCAA has been playing catch up ever since. So you can Tell me who he does. You don't have to love his timing, but I'd rather him do this in April than August. I mean, it's Tennessee. They'll go spend two and a half million on somebody. And I don't blame Tennessee for moving off the kid, but I saw a lot. Well, the kid's overrated. The kid's really talented. I mean, Arch Manning could go number one right now. I don't even know if Arch Manning's good. I mean, he backed up Quinn Ewers, who I think's average, so, I mean, who knows who's good? They're all kids. It's not the player, it's not the program. It's the system. Yes. That is broken and really will be broken until they have a healthy CBA like the NFL. Yeah. Tennessee is the Southern Ohio State. They'll figure it out. It's a football program with a lot of drama and a lot of cash and a lot of capital. They'll figure it out. But, you know, I just saw a lot of people crushing the kid and his dad. Well, of course. Kid listens to his dad. And this is the. You know, this is the new era. If I. If I. For instance, what if I worked in a world where I didn't have a contract with Fox and I was just, hey, I saw the other guy sign for that. Not showing up for tomorrow's show. I don't think I would do that. But a system. This is why the NFL's got everything collectively bargained. Yes. So you have all these guard rails, college sports. I mean, it really is the first official holdout in college. That's right. History. And for it to happen at a signature program with a signature quarterback who was a blue chipper. That's why we're talking about it. Remember Rick Pacino, Tom Izzo, and John Calipari, when they lost in the tournament. Yeah. They were literally asked. Well, the portal opened today. Calipari didn't even know. No, he. He started laughing. He's like, izzo didn't care. And. And Calipari didn't know.

Frank Reich (57:31)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (57:32)

And Rick Patino was infuriated. So it's like, you got to get this stuff right before we just blame coaches and players. The system. I mean, you see countries collapse. It's not because of the people. It's because of usually a lousy government inefficiency upstairs. That's. That's why the Cleveland Browns aren't the Eagles. You can blame the coaches and the players. Blame the owner. Why are the Rams so well run and Arizona's not. I mean, I love McVay, but if you put McVeigh in Arizona, he wouldn't be Sean McVay. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

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Jeremy Hobson (58:43)

We live in a divided country.

Colin Cowherd (58:45)

I am a lifelong Republican with all.

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Kinds of different people.

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You know, I'm a mother. I'm a grandmother.

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That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

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Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

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Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

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Thanks for having me.

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I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

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And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

Colin Cowherd (59:27)

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

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Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Greg Rosenthal (59:41)

What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. We ready to fight?

Colin Cowherd (60:12)

I'm ready to fight. Is that what I thought it was? Oh, this is Fighting Words.

Greg Rosenthal (60:16)

Okay, I put the hammer back.

Colin Cowherd (60:20)

Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a best selling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back and that's what we are doing. On Fighting Work Words. We're not going to let anyone silence us. That's the reason why they're banning books like yours, George.

Frank Reich (60:40)

That's the reason why they're trying to stop the teaching of black history or queer history, any history that challenges the.

Colin Cowherd (60:45)

Whitewashed norm or put us in a box. Black people have never ever depended on the so called mainstream to support us. That's why we are great. We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Rick Bucher drops in today, Fox Sports. NBA analysts love having him in today because the warriors yesterday, the honeymoon with Jimmy Butler, it felt like it hit a ceiling. We were, we were talking about this, about if you look at the Dynasty.

Jordan Schultz (61:27)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (61:27)

Steve Kerr's first data now Bogut Iguodala. Veteran players have worked kd. They've just all kind of worked. Younger players, Wiseman, Jordan, pool, Jonathan Kaminga. I keep waiting. And they just. Steve Kerr yesterday in the biggest game of the year is like, yeah, we're not going to play you.

Frank Reich (61:49)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (61:50)

It kind of told me that in the end and I've compared it to Brady and the Patriots. They did great getting players that were already in the league that last seven, eight years with Tom and Belichick. They couldn't draft to save their life because the system was so sophisticated, was so set that for you to work your way in the ecosystem. At 23, I look at Kaminga not playing and it's like a message going forward that they're going to move him. And this thing probably this year is a ceiling.

Jordan Schultz (62:17)

Yeah. No, the difficulty is that when you have the opportunity to draft lottery type players like James Wiseman, like Kaminga, you're getting players that have been stars and that have had the ball in their hands and then the ecosystem revolves around them. If you're coming to the warriors or you're coming to say any team with LeBron James, you're going to be, be part of the ecosystem, but the ecosystem is not built around you. You're finding your place. That's why a Brandon Pajemski will work with the warriors or get playing time where a Jonathan Kaminga does not. Because Pajemski, at one point in college was not a star. He was a role player.

Colin Cowherd (63:01)

He was a guy.

Jordan Schultz (63:02)

So he understands what it takes to play that role. And how can I be effective? How can I still be a player? That matters. But I'm playing off of Steph Curry, I'm playing off of Jimmy Butler. And so that's been. That's been the issue. That's why Kavon Looney got the minutes that normally maybe Jonathan Kaminga would get. Now, some of it was match up too, with the Clippers and the size. But the other part was Steve, and this is with coaches in general. If I know what I'm going to get from you specifically on this day, consistently, I'm going to play you over the guy who might give me the electric performance, but he also might not fit the bill. And this is a game that, as we saw, went down to overtime, went down to a last possession. And actually, in this case, it wasn't an ancillary player that screwed it up. It was the star players. I mean, the reason the warriors lost that game is because Steph Curry had eight turnovers and because Draymond Green couldn't hit a layup at a crucial time. But generally, what you're going to do is you're going to build your team, you have your stars, and you need those ancillary players. And veteran players generally know how to play those roles and find their spot. And young players, particularly in today's game, are all about, well, I need the ball. Well, you're not going to get the ball when Steph Curry is on the floor.

Colin Cowherd (64:27)

So Budenholzer got fired today. Malone got fired last week for the Nuggets. I think Denver's in a fascinating place. They have the world's best basketball player, then they have three other good players making great money, not a lot of draft capital. And I kind of feel like they're trapped. And Giannis became more Westernized, got more outspoken the longer he was in the league. But I think Jokic likes kind of hiding in the Rocky Mountain region. He doesn't feel like a table pounder to me. I think he likes scoring. He's got his money, he's got a ring, he's got his legacy. And the minute the season's over, he's back to Europe. So I kind of feel like, and this happens more than it doesn't, that dynasties are infrequent winning one with Lu Alcindor, one with Giannis, one with Jokic is much more common than winning several with Duncan and I feel like Denver is kind of trapped and maybe they'll just become the Bucks with Giannis. One great team, several very good teams with a transformative player. But this is. They're just kind of stuck.

Jordan Schultz (65:27)

There's a lot of similarities between the two in that they won a championship and then they paid their core players.

Colin Cowherd (65:33)

Yes.

Jordan Schultz (65:34)

But you win championships as much off of having a great core but also having great complementary players. And Denver let Kentavius, Caldwell Pope go, they let Bruce Brown go. They let Jeff Green go.

Colin Cowherd (65:48)

Really valuable guys.

Jordan Schultz (65:49)

And sometimes you get lucky and you can replace as the as the warriors kind of did when they came back and won the championship in 2022.

Colin Cowherd (65:59)

Wiggins.

Jordan Schultz (66:00)

Wiggins. Jordan Poole gave them something like they found some young guys who could play well enough and fill those roles. Well the Bucks haven't been able to do that in finding any young players. They're still searching. That's why you go trade for a Kyle Kuzma and the Denver Nuggets with Christian Brown and and. And Peyton Watson just haven't evolved. And then you had the whole Michael Malone situation where everybody was flatlining as a result of the toxicity around around that franchise and it was largely hidden by. They still were winning enough. Largely off of Nikola Jokic being what he's been. But as soon as they started losing they went 8 and 11. It was like like everybody's miserable. Our GM and our head coach don't get along and have created to this toxic situation before. If we're going to have any chance of doing anything like we still believe our core and the west is wide open. Like we have a shot. Let's go ahead and rip the band aid off and see if it will change because David Adelman is a completely different dynamic.

Colin Cowherd (67:08)

Everybody's going to take the Lakers over the T Wolves and you have three play initiators in Luka LeBron and Austin buckets Will it's easier to run that offense because three guys can kind of take it over. Two are generally always on the floor. Sometimes three. Yeah. Whereas Julius Randall, Rudy Gobert. The ball can get stuck in their offense at times. I would take the Lakers to win it. What do you think the matchup looks like for the T Wolves in Los Angeles?

Jordan Schultz (67:32)

It's the thing that the Timberwolves have where I think that they can make it a series. A competitive series series is that with Jade McDaniels and with Julius Randle and with Naz Reed, they can match up with the Lakers small ball lineup. That's where the Lakers are an X factor because you have three playmakers in. In LeBron and Luka and Austin. How do you defend them? Do you have quality defenders to put on each one of them? And I believe that the Timberwolves. Timberwolves do. The big question is going to be to your point offensively, can they maintain a flow? Can they keep, you know, does. Does ant decide I'm going to try to take over and forces the issue. I don't think he's quite there yet. Right. Is Mike Conley still vital enough because he's sort of their organized. He's the guy who gets everybody involved.

Colin Cowherd (68:34)

He gets the offense. He gets them into the offense.

Jordan Schultz (68:36)

Yes. Can. Can he still give you enough at this point? At this age?

Colin Cowherd (68:41)

There's more quite. When I look at this series, I have more answers with the Lakers. Offensively, I have questions and maybe one answer with the T wolves. Offensively.

Jordan Schultz (68:49)

Oh, 100%. The one thing that Minnesota has though is defensively they can be really good. And, and, and the other part that's kind of raises the question is, you know, everybody looks at the Lakers and goes well, they're not the same team they were six weeks ago. Like they're a different team. So are the Minnesota Timberwolves. Like they went on a I think 15 to 4 run to put themselves in this position. They've been playing much, much better. The whole question is going to be for me really comes down to the maturity of Anthony Edwards.

Colin Cowherd (69:22)

Yeah.

Jordan Schultz (69:22)

We saw how Luka took him down last year. Will. Will that happen again?

Colin Cowherd (69:27)

The Knicks over the last three years have become a very patient franchise. They were very impulsive for years with James Dolan seeking stars and relevance. I do not feel they are that franchise. I think they're patient the Villanova Corps. But I do think they have hit. When you watch them against Cleveland or Boston, it's very clear this won't be the answer. Yeah. So you can be patient at some point you gotta pay the bills here. We all know they need another shot maker. Not necessarily creator. A shot maker. KD could be a fit.

Jordan Schultz (70:04)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (70:05)

What, what do the Knicks have to. Because I. My thing is they'll win a playoff series.

Jordan Schultz (70:10)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (70:10)

Do they have to win a second for Tibbs to keep his job?

Jordan Schultz (70:13)

They have to be competitive in the second round. I think everybody looks at take Cleveland seven.

Colin Cowherd (70:19)

He keeps the job.

Jordan Schultz (70:20)

Yeah, yeah, I think. And the team doesn't Completely break down like it did against Indiana last, last year. But to your point, you're right. I mean, this is their ceiling. And part of it is whether it's creator or playmaker. The problem is that you're asking Jalen Brunson to be both.

Colin Cowherd (70:37)

Yeah.

Jordan Schultz (70:37)

And at his size and physicality, it just doesn't work. You're asking that he is a wonder and he's making the most out of what he has. And I love him as a player.

Colin Cowherd (70:51)

Great face of the frame.

Jordan Schultz (70:53)

Yes. But is he a. Is he the best player on a championship caliber team? The answer for me, for all that I love about him, is no. And so you either need a tremendous dynamic number two, or you need a playmaker who now allows Jalen to play more off the ball and be a scorer. But asking him to do both on this, this team.

Colin Cowherd (71:19)

Right.

Jordan Schultz (71:20)

With a team with a, with a coach who is as least offensively creative.

Colin Cowherd (71:28)

Yeah.

Jordan Schultz (71:28)

As Tibbs is, is just a dynamic that's not going to get you farther than the second round.

Colin Cowherd (71:33)

Yeah. I, I've made this argument. Rick Bucher for our radio audience joining us is that generally we've never given the spurs dynasty the love we gave the Bulls, the Warriors or the Lakers. Because this is a league where aesthetics matter. What do you look like when you're winning? And the spurs have largely been, you know, pushed off to the side. As if we've forgotten. Yeah. Well run organization. Yeah. But we don't talk about man who's maybe the best six man ever. Duncan's one of the five, ten great bigs ever. Tony Parker was an mvp and Pops was a basketball genius before a lot of people. I mean he was ahead of the game.

Jordan Schultz (72:11)

Sure.

Colin Cowherd (72:11)

So I look at the Celtics and I think similarly, despite the big brand is. Tatum's a little reluctant though. He says he would love to be the face of the league. He's not a big personality. He's more of a grinder. Jalen Brown's a two. Their strength is three point shooting. A young coach who's grown up quick. Unbelievable depth. But they've got a lot of B plus and one A in Tatum.

Jordan Schultz (72:34)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (72:34)

And I don't quite think we understand how good they are are in that the way the league, the way the CBA works now, it would be almost impossible to create a lineup like this going forward. And they've kind of been grand. You can say I'm wrong on this. I probably am. But they're kind of grandfathered in the way they, you know, as the league is Currently constructed. They don't want you to be this deep. Yeah. They don't want Derek White to be your fifth best player. No. And I think we look at them and I look at them and how dominant they can be on the road. And I'm like, that's what the all time teams did. Went on the road and can win seven of eight against playoff teams. I think Boston is really special, but aesthetically they're much more. Even the old Celtic teams. Bird was a fighter. Walton was crazy. Danny Angels rolling on the floor. There was a lot of sex appeal to it.

Jordan Schultz (73:31)

Well, who's their most dynamic personality?

Colin Cowherd (73:33)

They don't have one.

Jordan Schultz (73:34)

It's probably Jaylen Brown. Probably. Right. And he's. But the rest of them, they're defined like Derek White's a good guy, Jason Tatum's a nice guy. Al Horford, nice guy. Drew Holiday. But they're all sort of quiet and they just go about their business. And you know, Jalen is. Jalen is the loudest in terms of give me the ball and get out of the way.

Colin Cowherd (73:56)

But he's also a great team player and he is.

Jordan Schultz (73:59)

And he's fully willing to take the toughest defensive assignment. So, yes, I think that they are a little underappreciated. That's what it might take in terms of what they are. And they are extremely unique in that they've got so many quality players that would be quality players on any team. Derrick White. Right.

Colin Cowherd (74:22)

Drew Holiday, I mean, when you're Peyton pritchard, they have 7 guy.

Jordan Schultz (74:25)

Even Al Horford, Sam Houser gives you good minutes.

Colin Cowherd (74:29)

If I told you in a playoff game Horford had 22 points and got hot from the corner, you'd be like, yeah, I expect one of those. Yeah, I think they're so much deeper. And so I mean, basically they've had two basketball gurus, Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens, and basically they've built a similar roster. Can you shoot, pass and handle the ball?

Jordan Schultz (74:49)

Yeah.

Colin Cowherd (74:50)

They go nine deep on that, ten deep on that.

Jordan Schultz (74:52)

This is the one Achilles heel to that, which is. And we see it all the time, like what makes them so difficult is everybody on the floor can. Can score.

Colin Cowherd (75:04)

Everybody.

Jordan Schultz (75:05)

Everybody can shoot a three.

Colin Cowherd (75:06)

Everybody.

Jordan Schultz (75:07)

Right? I mean, everybody. Right. And then when they go to the bench, we bring in more guys who can shoot threes.

Colin Cowherd (75:12)

Right.

Jordan Schultz (75:14)

They are never without that. The days that for whatever reason, they're not creating the open looks or they're not taking quality threes. And now you get into a tight game and you have to rely on Jason Tatum or Jaylen Brown going ISO one on one, that's when they struggle because those guys are good all around players. They're not a Luka Doncic type. Give me the ball and I'm going to get to a place that's just going to contort the defense. And so, but, and that's what we love. Right? We love it when we see Luka getting to a place and he's either scoring and it seems like it's impossible to stop that guy or he's throwing a behind the back pass to somebody for a wide open 3. You don't get that element with the Boston Celtics. They have everything else and what makes them, what makes them great is what makes them a little vulnerable in that they, they, they're an equal opportunity team.

Colin Cowherd (76:09)

Yeah.

Jordan Schultz (76:10)

Right. And that makes them difficult to stop.

Colin Cowherd (76:12)

But if that in these tight moments they're vulnerable.

Jordan Schultz (76:17)

If, if you can make it a close game that change and, and take away the three now they're not quite as dynamic.

Colin Cowherd (76:26)

Rick Bucher Good stuff. Fox NBA analyst Tomorrow it's warriors in Memphis. We would take Golden State in that game experience. I mean that is almost an ideal match up for them for a play in game. Is it not?

Jordan Schultz (76:37)

Pretty close. Pretty close. I don't want to think about the Bay Area, living in the Bay Area, what the Bay Area would be like if they, they wind up going out once again in the play in. Yeah, not a good thought.

Colin Cowherd (76:51)

Good seeing you as always, live in la. It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

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Jeremy Hobson (77:30)

We live in a divided country.

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I am a lifelong Republican with all.

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Kinds of different people.

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You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

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That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

Frank Reich (77:46)

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

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Each week we bring together an all star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle.

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Thanks for having me.

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Thanks for having me.

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And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

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I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

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And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

Colin Cowherd (78:14)

We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

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Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (78:28)

What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Rick Bucher (78:58)

In 1978, Roger Caron's first book was published and he was unlike any first time author Canada had ever seen.

Colin Cowherd (79:06)

Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted, has spent 24 of the those years in jail, 12 years in solitary. He went from an ex con to a literary darling almost overnight. He was instantly a celebrity, he was an adrenaline junkie and he was the star of the show.

Rick Bucher (79:25)

Go Boy is the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable.

Jordan Schultz (79:32)

I had a knife go in my.

Colin Cowherd (79:33)

Stomach, puncture my spleen, break my ribs.

Rick Bucher (79:36)

I had my guts all in my.

Frank Reich (79:37)

Hands only to find himself back where he started.

Colin Cowherd (79:40)

Roger's saying is I've never hurt anybody but myself. And I said, oh, you're so wrong. You're so wrong on that one. Rod from Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts.

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Listen to GoBoy on the iHeartRadio app.

Rick Bucher (79:55)

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Colin Cowherd (80:00)

And Jim Irsay are interesting owners. They've got strong opinions, can be a bit temperamental. And Fr. Reich has found himself now at college at Stanford with Andrew Locke. And it's a Whole different world. So I would have said 10 years ago, Frank, stay out of college, go coach in the NFL. But now with the Portal, you are going to recruit a lot of kids that already have experience. They're not 16, they're 21 or 22. I mean, just take me through how you viewed college six years ago and how you view it today and how that's changed because of the Portal in the nil.

Rick Bucher (80:41)

It feels to me like Colin, like he's going to the more of an NFL model, so structured that way. You know, even here with Andrew being Andrew Luck being named gm, you know, my situation is unique because it's an interim deal that both he and I agree were best, you know, at this time of year was good for me personally. So, you know, my focus is to come in here and develop the talent that is here, since I won't be here long term, you know, and I'm excited to do that. Like, even in just two weeks here of spring ball, I can feel the progress that we've made. I can feel the energy and excitement around what we're doing, you know, bringing some things that some of the experience that I've had in the professional level, some of the concepts, some of the thoughts, philosophy that can go up and help and help this team. So I'm excited.

Colin Cowherd (81:36)

You know, Frank, it's interesting. You've had Philip Rivers, Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz. Bryce Young is there as we talk about, you know, Cam Ward and Shadour Sanders. The kid I like is Kyle McCord at Syracuse. So I think is a really underrated player, really anticipatory thrower. I like him. Ohio State, Syracuse. I think he's going to be a little bit of a sleeper. Is there some something. Because Bryce Young really emerged last year, his first year. It was a lot. This game is fast. It's, it's, it's, it's just a different world. What is the one thing that attracted you about Bryce Young or a Carson Wentz? The one thing you would tell a college quarterback, okay, you're going to pros. This is where it's going to be really different. What is that thing?

Rick Bucher (82:23)

I think it starts with mental toughness, you know, a resiliency to and a mindset that you're always going to get better. You know, I always define toughness as a relentless pursuit to get better every day, an obsession to finish. And so when I'm looking for quarterbacks or what I would tell a quarterback, that's the number one factor, you know, was quarter Peyton Manning's quarterback coach, mentally as tough as they come. You know, Andrew Luck, Bryce Young, Carson, you know, all those guys, that's a trait that they have because you're going to take. There's going to be bumps and bruises along the road. You have to find ways to keep getting better. You have to find ways to keep believing in yourself and in the team and where you're going. And. And then if you have the juice, you're going to win and you're going to be successful.

Colin Cowherd (83:13)

You know, Frank, I've said this. I think coaching in the NBA or the NFL has gotten harder. It used to be that an owner had, let's say, a $600 million net worth and he would give you an extra year. Well, they're all billionaires. Okay? So $40 million to run a coach out of the room is a rounding error. And I do feel like Bill Belichick had voiced this. Ownership now is richer. They're more impulsive, they're less patient. The media is more relentless. Their social media, the owners on that, watching what people are saying. Is it possible in here, your golden years of coaching, that college, actually it's easier to deal with an athletic director than a billionaire, that this may be what we see some NFL coaches transitioning to.

Rick Bucher (84:02)

Yeah, that's an interesting thought. It's an interesting thought. I just think it comes down to personal preference for me. You know, in my years coaching in the NFL, I think the appeal was, you know, you're at the. You're playing with the best, you're coaching the best of the best, and it's all football 24 7. What makes this position so appealing to me, to come in here at this stage at 63, at the end of 30 plus years playing in coaching, you know, I'm looking at this as an opportunity to impact the student athletes, you know, coach football and give them all the experience and the stuff from the NFL, but also impact, you know, people on a personal level, bring a team together. So I think you can make a case either way for, for me at this stage in my life, this is exactly what I'm looking for.

Colin Cowherd (84:53)

So you coached Andrew Luck back with the Colts. How many practices did it take with Andrew Lock to realize, wow, this guy's smart, this guy's really good? Like, is it instant? I mean, like, they talk about the great players, the Kobe Bryant's, where you watch it when you watch him work out and you're like, yeah, that doesn't look like anybody else. Could you tell instantly with Andrew Luck what you could give him, what he could retain. Did you know instantly. This is different.

Rick Bucher (85:23)

Yes, in every way. You know, mentally, he. His approach to the game, how the questions he asked, what the comments he would make watching the tape, the strength, the strange things. Was Colin that physically, you know, obviously from watching him in his earlier years, before I got there, I knew he was physically dominant at the position, but he was coming off a shoulder injury. So that year in 2018, and we had a pretty stinking good team at the end of the year, no one wanted to play us. And we're two weeks before our week one starter, our week one game, and I still have yet to see him throw a ball over 40 yards because of the injury that he was coming off of. And he was on a pitch count. And it was a really strange year. And we, of course, started 1 in 5 and then 19 of 10, and he was the hottest thing there was. And you could just. But you could see his leadership even in the one and five start, as he physically was kind of gaining his confidence back in his shoulder and his throwing. But, no, it was just. It felt different right from the start with him.

Colin Cowherd (86:32)

So there was a young player at Tennessee, really talented kid, Nico Iamaliava. And I like him a lot. He moves, he's mobile, he's got an arm. He's just young. He's raw. He can be hit and miss. Not quite there yet, but most, you know, young quarterbacks aren't. And so it's really funny. So everybody's crushing the kid. Oh, his dad. But I could see the kid saying, timeout. Our football program makes 149 million. Coach makes 12. Duke just gave a guy from Tulane 4 million. I'm making 2. I led us to the playoff. Maybe have a. Have a problem with the ncaa. I'm getting mine. I mean, it's funny. Everybody's crushing the kid, but I kind of get it. What do you make of that situation?

Rick Bucher (87:19)

Yeah, I haven't really followed it very much. You know, I mean, it's right now in the trends you remember. I mean, this last season, I was. I was retired, right? And I was good being retired and hadn't been following. Hadn't been following the college game that much. But this just presented such a unique scenario to me before I kind of completely shut it down. It was like I told my wife, I said I would only get back in this for, you know, a really unique and special situation. So that's why I'm here. So the situation you're talking about, I'm not familiar with all the dynamics of it, to be quite honest with you.

Colin Cowherd (88:02)

Colin, would you. The nil and transfer portal, will it benefit Stanford, which is an academic power, or is it more, Is that something more Ohio State's going to go after, or do you kind of know, listen, this is what we are, this is what we want. How does Stanford approach that as an academic power?

Rick Bucher (88:21)

I think it does come. You know, listen, I've heard you say, you know, I mean, one of the things that I've heard you say over the years and I don't get a chance to watch that much, but obviously I have have watched and listened to you over the years and you always say, and I always strongly agree and like when you say this about good teams have an identity. They know who they are.

Colin Cowherd (88:43)

Yes.

Rick Bucher (88:43)

And you always say that. And that's what this place has. This place has an identity. And it not only has an identity as a academic institution, but it also has an identity as a football program. You know, we're going to run the football. You know, we're going to have good O line play. Our tight end room is going to be strong. There's, you know, they're going to be used in a powerful way to create extra gaps, create this power run game and then to be able to throw play action off of this run game and, and play good, smart, tough football. And so that's what the, you know, with Andrew kind of at the helm and him really leading that identity when it was in its heyday here at Stanford, that's the identity that he's going to lead this, this university back to as a football program. And so, and I understand what he's looking for. I understand that vision. And so that's, that's what we're recruiting towards. That's what you will use the nil. That's what we'll use the portal for. That's what we'll scheme for. We'll stick to that identity and that's where we're going to make our money finally.

Colin Cowherd (89:48)

You know, you coach at one of the only places in the country where half the time your players are as smarter, smarter than the coach. Are you okay with that?

Rick Bucher (89:57)

I am okay with that. You know, over the years, I've learned a lot of football and a lot of life from a lot of good players. So, yeah, that's one of the reasons I'm here. You know, even though these, they're, they're much younger, but it is a unique, it is a unique atmosphere and for the players as well, I can tell that already I can just feel the energy being here for two weeks and looking forward to getting to know everyone, you know.

Colin Cowherd (90:23)

Right.

Rick Bucher (90:23)

On a deeper level over the next football season.

Colin Cowherd (90:26)

Frank, love to have you on again. Good luck to you and Stanford and Andrew Luck, one of my all time favorite quarterbacks. Andrew Luck, his retirement was heartbreaking probably for him and many others in Indianapolis and me certainly as a fan. Great seeing you, coach.

Rick Bucher (90:38)

Hey, thanks, Colin.

Colin Cowherd (90:40)

You bet. Yeah, Stanford's in a totally different model. I always feel it's got kind of a Notre Dame feel. Well, there's a way to win at Notre Dame and Stanford. You don't want to get into track meets. O line, tight end, quarterback coaching. If you go look at the Jim Harbaugh or Marcus Freeman teams at Notre Dame, that's the way to build them. You can have good backs, you can have, but it's a physical presence. It is a lean into physicality and, and that's what you can do at Notre Dame and Stanford. And that's what Andrew Lux teams were. I mean they were tough and physical teams. That's what Notre Dame was this year as well. So good stuff. Albert Brer, Rick Bucher, Frank Wright. Colin right. Colin wrong. Jordan Schultz is in this week for Jason McIntyre. I don't know where Jason goes. Somewhere with a beach. I can take the cold. You know, it's funny, Jason I know is somewhere warm. I discovered over the course of my brief, brief respite, my brief vacation after about four days staring at water on the beach, that's it. It, that's about it for me. Couple books. A couple books, yeah. And then I'm ready to go back to work. You know, I had more fun this weekend. You wanted to watch baseball too. Saturday I wanted to. Saturday and Sunday I had more fun watching the Masters every shot. I mean, yesterday was one of my favorite TV days since Tiger Woods Prime.

Greg Rosenthal (92:00)

Wow.

Colin Cowherd (92:01)

Four and a half, five hours of great golf.

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Jeremy Hobson (92:33)

We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greg Rosenthal (93:03)

What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101 free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Colin Cowherd (93:33)

The championship is back in the bay for the first time in 40 years. On the new limited podcast series Dub Dynasty, we hear from head coach Steve Kerr on how Steph Curry almost never even joined the Warriors. In fact, I thought we had a.

Frank Reich (93:49)

Draft day deal to end up getting.

Colin Cowherd (93:51)

Him to Phoenix for the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run. Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.