Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – "Best of The Herd" (May 8, 2025)

Hosted by iHeartPodcasts and The Volume, "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" is known for its thought-provoking and opinionated take on the day's top sports stories. In the "Best of The Herd" episode released on May 8, 2025, Colin Cowherd delivers a comprehensive analysis of the NBA playoffs, focusing primarily on the unexpected performance of the Boston Celtics against the New York Knicks.

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1. Boston Celtics' Unexpected Collapse Against the Knicks

Colin Cowherd opens the discussion by expressing his astonishment at the Boston Celtics' performance in the playoffs. Highlighting a historic collapse, Cowherd remarks:

"I have never seen what just happened in Boston. A world champion starts a series at home, heavily favored in both games, has 20-point leads, and not only loses but shows no guts in the clutch." (03:27)

The Celtics, despite their championship pedigree, struggled against the Knicks, losing both games after maintaining significant leads. Cowherd attributes this downfall to the Celtics' over-reliance on analytics, which he dubs "manhlytics"—a blend of analytics and traditional grit.

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2. Analytics-Driven Play vs. Grit and Resilience

A central theme of the episode is the clash between the Celtics' analytical approach and the Knicks' resilient, traditional basketball style. Cowherd explains:

"The math nerds will not take over our sport. The basketball gods are pushing back Wall Street, AI tech. It's all being taken over by analytics. Can we just have our basketball?" (06:00)

He praises the Knicks for embodying resilience and toughness, crediting players like Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart—whom he describes as "classic Villanova overachievers"—for their calmness and effectiveness in high-pressure situations.

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3. Jayson Tatum vs. Jalen Brunson: A Comparative Analysis

The episode delves deep into the contrasting styles and effectiveness of Celtics' star Jayson Tatum and Knicks' Jalen Brunson. Cowherd is critical of Tatum's performance under pressure, stating:

"Two of his last three shots were fallaways on the baseline. Tatum is really hurting his team." (16:55)

In contrast, Brunson is lauded for his consistency and ability to perform without faltering:

"Somewhere on the floor, Jalen Brunson's making your team better." (07:41)

The discussion highlights how Brunson’s grit and clutch playmaking provide the Knicks with a reliable foundation, whereas Tatum’s occasional lapses become liabilities for the Celtics.

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4. The Impact of Team Culture and Player Psychology

Cowherd emphasizes the significance of team culture and player mentality in the playoffs:

"The Knicks are a team that never quits. It's Villanova professionally. That's why they're so easy to root for." (07:41)

He contrasts this with the Celtics' analytics-heavy approach, suggesting that a lack of mental toughness and reliance on statistical models hinder their performance in crucial moments.

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5. Broader NBA Trends: Physicality and Possession-Based Games

The conversation expands to broader NBA trends, observing a shift towards more physical, possession-oriented games. Cowherd notes:

"We're finding these teams like New York and Golden State, without Steph, they love grabbing and pushing." (33:54)

Rick Bucher, a guest and seasoned sports analyst, concurs, adding that this shift results in lower-scoring, more strategic games where physicality plays a pivotal role.

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6. Giannis Antetokounmpo and Team Building Strategies

The discussion touches upon Giannis Antetokounmpo's role in team dynamics and building championship-contending teams. Cowherd speculates on the Knicks’ potential moves to acquire Giannis, pondering the implications for team chemistry and strategy.

"Giannis would give you leads and Hart and Brunson, ball in their hands, get fouled. So I think Giannis would make them." (45:07)

Bucher adds that while Giannis could infuse aggression and leadership, assembling a team around him requires strategic acquisitions to complement his skill set.

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7. Critique of Other NBA Teams: Lakers and Warriors

Cowherd offers critical insights into the current state of other prominent NBA teams:

• Los Angeles Lakers: He describes the Lakers as a team with a "big marquee," led by LeBron James, but lacking the supporting cast necessary for championship success.

  "It's not the Godfather. You could fix that though, if LeBron took the least he's allowed to take." (41:16)

• Golden State Warriors: Discussing the Warriors, Cowherd highlights their defensive prowess despite the absence of Steph Curry.

  "They can double down on physicality. Yep." (36:54)

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8. Closing Remarks and Future Outlook

As the episode nears its end, Cowherd and Bucher reflect on the evolving landscape of the NBA playoffs. They anticipate continued upsets and the rise of underdog teams capitalizing on the current trends of physicality and strategic gameplay.

"Indiana Pacers and the New York Knicks both are capable of getting to the Finals." (46:37)

Cowherd concludes by affirming the depth and unpredictability of the playoffs, suggesting that traditional powerhouses must adapt their strategies to remain competitive.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Colin Cowherd: "I have never seen what just happened in Boston. A world champion starts a series at home heavily favored both games. Has 20 point leads in both games and not only loses had no guts at the end." (03:27)

• Colin Cowherd: "The math nerds will not take over our sport. The basketball gods are pushing back Wall Street, AI tech. It's all being taken over by analytics. Can we just have our basketball?" (06:00)

• Colin Cowherd: "Two of his last three shots were fallaways on the baseline. Tatum is really hurting his team." (16:55)

• Colin Cowherd: "I'm going to say this, give the Knicks credit, and I don't use this term much, that is an all time choke." (07:00)

• Rick Bucher: "Coach Brown's the best quarterback in the city regardless of what sporty plays easy to root for Villanova guys." (03:22)

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Conclusion

In this "Best of The Herd" episode, Colin Cowherd provides a critical and in-depth analysis of the NBA playoffs, focusing on the Boston Celtics' surprising struggles against the New York Knicks. By juxtaposing analytics-driven strategies with traditional grit and resilience, Cowherd underscores the evolving dynamics of basketball and its impact on championship outcomes. The episode offers listeners valuable insights into team strategies, player performances, and broader league trends, making it a must-listen for NBA enthusiasts seeking a nuanced understanding of the game's current landscape.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[J. Mac]

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[Unknown]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Good job.

[Unknown]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, kid, give it a try.

[J. Mac]

Nice.

[Unknown]

Or remember their elbow pads.

[Rick Bucher]

Knees too.

[J. Mac]

Okay.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep, there you go.

[Unknown]

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[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Unknown]

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[J. Mac]

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every.

[Colin Cowherd]

Weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon.

[J. Mac]

To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on.

[Colin Cowherd]

The iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Oh what a night, what a night. I know what I said. Occasionally a little off the mark. Live, it's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. J. Mac, you are a Knicks Fan. I love what they've become. I think they're patient. Jalen Brunson's the best quarterback in the city regardless of what sporty plays easy to root for Villanova guys. I was in a place last night, a setting in Los angeles with about 60 people and there wasn't a single Celtic fan there. People could not believe the collapse. Wild is the only thing I can.

[Unknown]

Say really tough to repeat compete in this league. Colin and the Boston Celtics, they're in trouble now.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's official. 30 plus years watching covering the NBA. I have never seen what just happened in Boston. And I thought about it, I thought about it this morning. I've never seen this. A world champion starts a series at home heavily favored both games. Has 20 point leads in both games and not only loses had no guts at the end. The champs supposed to have a champions confidence. I find the Celtics honestly after last night hard to root for. All they are now is a math formula three pointers regardless. And last night to me was not just a win for the Knicks, it was a win for manhlytics, which is my term. It's a little analytics, but it's about men and resilience and grit and toughness and not being nervous Nelly in the clutch. This isn't just about the Celtics. Mikhail Bridges and OG on the wing are dudes Brunson and Josh Hart. Classic Villanova overachievers who again are never rattled in the moment they're playing. You know, the double big lineup. This is not just about the Celtics, but they are the world champions. So that's the primary focus today. And I know what I said. The Knicks are not going to win another game. I know it. But watching the Celtics collapse, you know what I thought about? The math nerds will not take over our sport. The basketball gods are pushing back Wall Street, AI tech. It's all being taken over by analytics. Can we just have our basketball? Boston missed 75 threes in the last two games by the way. 11 for 11 on dunks. How about a few more of those? I found myself at the end sort of enjoying the collapse. These scrappy, tough, resilient, stayed in college Villanova guys. And that's what the Knicks are. They're Villanova professionally. And ironically the last, the only bucket the Celtics hit in the last eight minutes at home with a deeper, better roster was a dunk. Remember those? Used to have those. That was it. So when they went away from analytics, they actually scored. So Boston completely earned last night. And again, you got to give New York credit These and I think it's a real thing. There's a term in the NBA, Villanova guys, Bridges and Brunson and Hart, they just, they stay in school. They had to play defense. Mostly from the Northeast, tough guys, been around big cities, recruited out of D.C. it could be New York, it could be Boston. They're never afraid of the moment. And so let's not just hammer on the Celtics. A lot of this is just the Knicks being a team that never quits. I mean, the Villanova with Jay Wright, they didn't have five star guys. They had three star guys. Calipari had the five star guys, the one and done guys. So, you know, sometimes I'm sitting there watching it. I always said playoff basketball to me has always been one thing. Actually two things, but one thing really get a bucket, get a stop. That's really it. We talked about this yesterday. The crowd's going crazy. New York, just go get a bucket. Maybe it's two free throws. Go get a bucket, go get a stop. And it's like sometimes watching the Celtics and all their analytics go down the drain, it's like sometimes it is funny to watch the math nerd get his pants pulled down. And that's what happened last night. That's what happened last night. And I'm going to say this, give the Knicks credit, and I don't use this term much, that is an all time choke. I'll give you one. I'll give you the first game because you dominated the Knicks all year. You got sloppy and the Knicks were a good team. I'll give you the first. That's not a choke. You lost a lead. It's a little embarrassing. Last night's a choke. That is a full on choke. This team, by the way, Boston, 11 for 11 on dunk attempts. You want to try those? The closer they get to the basket, the more they make their shots. Here was Josh Hart after.

[Josh Hart]

I don't think we even know what we're capable of. I think we have to continue to build. I think we have to put together a full game. And I think that's something that we haven't done during the course of this playoffs. Continuing to get better. No one else is worried about that. Yeah. And figuring out a way to put together a full 48 minute game.

[Colin Cowherd]

So let's now focus on Jayson Tatum. Can we finally put this the bed? He's the face of the league. Thank God we can stop arguing about that. But remember this. Do you remember during the Olympics when Steve Kerr. I don't know, I think he knows a little more basketball than me and you. Steve Kerr wouldn't play Tatum and Boston. Southie was really upset. Chowder, what is wrong with Kerr? He knows more basketball than you, Sully. He does. And they wouldn't play him. And this is why. Ability without aggression. He wanted closers. If you can't play for Boston in clutch moments, you're not going to play for the country. This is what Steve Kerr saw. Two of his last three shots were followers. Because I think at his core, he has to be convinced to be aggressive. There was a moment at the end of the game when Tatum drove in 18 seconds left, gave Boston lead, dunked it, and my reaction was, whoa. Well, that was aggressive because he never does that. I mean, it was like, oh, wow. It was off brand. I mean, he's six, eight long and athletic.

[J. Mac]

Can.

[Colin Cowherd]

Can beat guys off the dribble all night. Do it at last night was somebody swatting chalk out of goodwill hunting's hand. And Tatum is really what's ironic here. Juxtaposed with Brunson. He's the anti Brunson. Brunson is work boots, and Tatum is leather loafers. And if it's a little drizzly outside, best not wear them. I'm. I'm serious. Everything about Tatum, Tatum gets anxious. He looks a little nervous. He's a bit passive. He's indecisive. He's unbelievably talented. Brunson's pretty talented. Tough as nails, all grit. Villanova tough. Like they're. They're like opposite players. One guy is just put on the work boots, head down, don't need marketing. Never forget Jalen Brunson. And you do not see this in the NBA much. Jalen Brunson's like, I'll take a little less money. I want to play with my guys. That is so Villanova. You know Villanova. You go to Villanova. Class is hard. You play defense. It's not one and done. Even with nil, they're not going to pay you the most. Villanova is a culture. It's not just the name of a university. And that's what the Knicks play like. That's why they're so easy to root for. Like, not all New York teams are easy to root for. I get people that don't like the Yankees and the payroll, and the Knicks are fun and. And. And Brunson is the anti Tatum. And Celtic fans know it. You could hear them early in the game getting uncomfortable. And I'm not an anti Tatum guy, but for when I was saying this during the Olympics, I get it. A DNP coach's decision. When I've been saying this face of the league stuff, it's like I have defended the passive nature of Tatum. But, man, there's a reason everybody loves mj. I mean, there is a reason. Six for six, he punched Steve Kerr. There's a reason why Kerr loves Draymond Green, who's limited athletically, who's limited offensively, but gives you everything. Relentless. And so I thought it was fitting last night as they were collapsing. I'm like, it's the perfect team and guy to collapse to the Knicks, the less talented Villanova of pro basketball. Resilient, tough. They go into your place. I'm looking at this clutch time numbers between Brunson and Tatum. I won't. I won't waste your time on all of these. Forget the fact Brunson's got twice as many points. Brunson's plus 18, Tatum's minus 16. Tatum's hurting his team. Brunson is sometimes exhausted, sometimes defensively gets, you know, abused a little because of his lack of size, but he is never a detriment. Somewhere on the floor, Jalen, Brunson's making your team better. Here's the Celtics coach after the collapse.

[Josh Hart]

I think game one wasn't inefficient as I thought. He just missed some really good looks. I thought today he passed up some. Some ones that he was able to take. And so, you know, their switchability, their ability to impact shifts definitely impact him tonight. So, yeah, I thought he missed some easy layups in the beginning of the game. I thought he missed a couple there in the third quarter. But yeah, I mean, they do a good job. OJ Nunoby is a good individual defender and they have good shifts and help.

[Colin Cowherd]

Behind Boston could have blown both these games to Indiana and it wouldn't feel the same. And it's not just a Boston New York thing. That's not it. It's the culture of the Knicks, which is, man, get a stop, get a bucket. Brunson, less money against analytics. It's who you're losing to, how you're losing. And the star of New York is the anti Tatum, to me, at least emotionally. So, J. Mac, I thought of you on multi as I was watching this game with friends, sitting around a table with friends, I kept thinking you were next door to place eating, you know, at high end sirloin.

[J. Mac]

All right.

[Colin Cowherd]

And I kept thinking, he is having the time of his life. It was the place I was at. And again it's la. So nobody likes Boston, but a lot of people in LA don't like New York either. It was just wild to watch people's reaction. It was like the Celtics are collapsing in front of us and they just kept hoisting up these awful shots.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I'm looking at the numbers here. I know you crushed Tatum and I get that. I will point out Celtics starters 2 for 18 in the fourth quarter shooting. This is not only on table.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, it's not.

[Unknown]

I'm surprised Joe Missoula escaped your opening right here because I don't know that he's going to survive the next three weeks.

[Colin Cowherd]

Remember, if you're talking about face of the league, I don't care about Peyton Pritchard or Al Horford. I don't care about Jalen Brown. This is somebody that's the face of the league and the team defends him. When a commentators are critical and everybody rushes to his defense. Okay, but then you gotta on fourth down, make the easy throw.

[Unknown]

And here's the numbers on the screen. Tatum, fourth quarter and overtime.

[Colin Cowherd]

Not great.

[Unknown]

Obviously not, not outstanding.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, the critics, myself included, have always said he's a top eight player.

[Unknown]

I, I go higher than that.

[Colin Cowherd]

But I would not.

[Unknown]

We have an 82 game sample size of Jason Tatum for four straight years being first team all NBA. Yeah, 82 games times four. And he's been bad in two games.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like I, I, that's not fair. He has been suspect throughout his career on a fairly regular basis in these moments.

[Unknown]

I mean, last series against Orlando he averaged like 31.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. You know, nobody cares about Orlando.

[Unknown]

Fine. In the finals last year he had two games with 31 points in the finals against.

[Colin Cowherd]

Is it a two game series?

[Unknown]

Two out of the five. He went.

[Colin Cowherd]

I watched them against Golden State. Wilt.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that was, that was a tough one.

[Rick Bucher]

His first.

[Colin Cowherd]

When you say Jayson Tatum, if you say what is your knock on Jayson Tatum? Everybody has the same knock. Don't trust him late. I'm sorry.

[Unknown]

I get it. There's some evidence of that. He's also had some big game sevens. I think he had 51 in a game six against.

[Colin Cowherd]

There's plenty of Boston reporters to tell you how mean we are. But it is really when you put him against Brunson, they are opposite players.

[Unknown]

You remember when they got Bridges, they Knicks, I was like, they match up great with Boston. And then it didn't bear out in the regular season. It has.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'll throw this at you. Why is it Working in the postseason and it didn't in the regular season. This is, my theory is New York's a more physical team and the NBA decides. Look at how the physical teams, by the way, the warriors defensively are physical. The T Wolves against the Lakers were more physical. The New York, even at practice, they're a more physical team than Boston. Boston's pretty, Boston's outside. Boston doesn't get to the free throw line. New York is a, in, in football terms, one of them is a passing offense, one of us, one of them is a run game. So the Knicks, as the NBA allows you to play in the postseason and get physical. You know, I, I, I'm watching the first game and I'm like, oh, it's a blip. But last night you're like, oh, this, this, this team's got a fullback. This team has double tight ends. They're playing double bigs.

[Unknown]

I like how you referenced that. Tatum drove and you're like, oh, wow, that was spectacular. Watch Mitchell Robinson on that play. He, he was up way too far by the three point line. Tatum dusted him. So on the next play, the game ending, Mitchell Robinson drops back. He's like, I'm conceding the jumper. And Tatum, like he just kind of wilted there at the end.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's one thing to miss a final shot, but two of his last three shots were fallaways on the baseline.

[Unknown]

How about Mikhail Bridges, game one, rips the ball out of Jaylen Brown's hands at the end.

[Colin Cowherd]

Game two, he blocks. He's great. No, we all loved McHale Bridges to the Knicks. We all said, okay, they finally have their wing defender who can give you 20 points on any night.

[Unknown]

Knicks in the finals would be really good for the league, huh? A lot of content for this show. New York Knicks in the final.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm sure the incorrigible Bruce Sard and.

[Unknown]

Company, they'll be going to the games, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, yeah. 40 minutes from now, Albert Brer stops buying the Cowboys Steelers trade from yesterday. And more thoughts on that. Plus, what's going on in Minnesota with our quarterback situation? It's the Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Okay.

[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Can't help you there.

[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Order it and it's on its way.

[J. Mac]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Alright, buckle up. Good job.

[Unknown]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Golf. It's called the yips. When we can suddenly not. You can't. You can't chip, you can't putt. Like, does Boston have that? Boston looked completely out of sorts and it is amazing. You see this with pro athletes where it just, it just, it bleeds over the whole roster. Like, Boston was like looking for Tatum to take over. Like, that's. Everybody knows that's our most talented guy. So this idea that, well, you know, Peyton Pritchard missed some shots and, well, this guy was that. That's not what it's about. We all know who's getting the ball with Denver at the end of a game, if you need a basket. We all know who's getting the ball at OKC sga. Not Chet Holmgren. Chad Holmgren got nervous at the free throw line. We all know who's getting the ball with the Knicks. Jalen Brunson is going to have the ball in his hands and score, make something happen. Boston guys are looking to Jayson Tatum. We all know. I mean, that was the Kobe Shaq issue. They both wanted it, but Shaq couldn't hit a free throw late, so Kobe needed it and Shaq wanted it. Tim Duncan couldn't hit free throws. He had Manu and Tony Parker. There are exceptions when a guy is a liability like Giannis at the end of the game at the free throw line, but Tatum's not. And everybody's looking around for Tatum and when he wilts, it affects the entire team. You're now entering the no Bull zone, sponsored by Credible Great Rates. None of the Bulls. So there's the story this morning reported by the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Jerry Dulock. Mike Tomlin was the one. And this is a tolerant guy. He's dealt with drama day one. He's the one that wanted George Pickens out of there. And bless the cowboy fans heart, they think they got just a steal here. But ask yourself how Chase Claypool do when the Steelers bailed on him? Or what was the receiver? Bryant, Martavis Bryant, what happened? What happened to Lavian Bell and Deontay Johnson? Antonio Brown? What happened? So listen, Tomlin's patient and he's like, yeah, let's get him out of here. By the way, when Kyle Shanahan bails on a quarterback, you should listen. When Warren Buffett sells a stock, you should listen. When Mike Tomlin orders a code Red, you may want to pay attention because he's like the most patient pro player guy in the league. A lot of guys won't even. They won't even put guy like George Pickens was not on the board for certain teams. No interest. Like, not interested. The Atlanta Falcons took an edge rusher, James Pierce. He was not on a dozen boards. Some teams just don't want the headache. Pittsburgh drafts him. Tomlin deals with him. He's patient. And he said, nah. And. And Mike Tomlin is two things. Great motivator, and he knows when to bail on people. And Jerry Jones, well, this is perfect for him because he's a saver. This is what he did with Jason Garrett, and he didn't have to save Jimmy Johnson or Bill Parcell, so that relationship eroded very quickly. But Jason Garrett, Mike McCarthy, Brian Schottenheimer, Chan Gailey, they got jobs they wouldn't otherwise get. So it's almost like they're indebted to Jerry Jones. Finally. Mike McCarthy was the one that went to Jerry last year and said, like, I'm done. And Jerry was trapped. Nobody had ever done that to Jerry. McCarthy's like, I got a Super Bowl. I got my 35, 45 million. I don't need this circus. So. And then, Then, then what Jerry will do, and I don't doubt that George Pickens is going to have big games, big moments, great moments, and. And he may have a really nice season, and everybody's going to fall for it, and then Jerry's going to do I told you so. I'm saved him, and then he'll overpay him. If you want to use this kid for a year, play him. Helps the offense. Helps Dak Prescott. I'm not opposed to taking guys on short term that elevate your offense. I'm not opposed to that. But be very careful, because we know this to be true. I saw a story this morning. Trading for Pickens is a bold move the Cowboys have needed for years. No, it's another Jerry move that we're accustomed to, which he likes to save. He likes to. He likes to find something on the draft that, you know, the scrap heap and go, hey, Dak Prescott, who found him in the fourth round? That's what Jerry. Hey, I gave Jason Garrett a shot. Tony Romo, undrafted. That was more Bill Parcells than Jerry. But that's Jerry's psychology. He likes that. To save, to prove he found something. He's a former wildcatter. He'd find the oil, he finds the jam. And, you know, we all know what the. That's fine, but you should probably keep really good coaches around, and you probably. If Pickens does have some great moments, and I'm sure he will, he's a tremendous talent. Fall in like with him. Don't fall in love. Coordinates with Mike Tomlin is like, yeah, let's get him out of the building. Mike did that. Not the gm, not the owner, not the quarterback. That's Mike. Mike's like, enough. Okay, Just Pay attention when Shanahan says no to a quarterback, Warren Buffett sells a stock, or Tomlin moves off a guy. Go look at what they have produced post Mike Tomlin. And the answer is not much. Consistently. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Steve Covino]

Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem.

[Colin Cowherd]

To have the time to discuss.

[Steve Covino]

And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I, you tell say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich.

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[Colin Cowherd]

Back in the game.

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[Colin Cowherd]

All right, Rick Bucher is joining us here in studio I. You've been covering this league, both of us. We've been covering it or watching it for 30 plus years. Usually the world champions at home play with a certain confidence verb, if you will. Yeah, they looked like Oklahoma City in game one. Yeah, and I do. I said this before, great teams all have something in common. Even though this is a collaborative unit, you do kind of turn to the guy. Even Pippen. Hall of Famer Michael it's yours. Mikhail the bird, it's yours. Kobe and Shaq were different because they both were ones. But it does matter. When two of the last three shots by Tatum were fallaways, it's almost like he has to be convinced to be aggressive, right?

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. Well, he doesn't have a go to spot. He doesn't have a go to shot. And in looking at look after they won the championship last year and the way he played for the better part of the regular season, I thought I was seeing a different guy. I Thought he had taken a step up in confidence. Prior to that, it was Jaylen Brown who wanted the ball and was willing to go get it. And I saw more from Jason like he was willing to get it, but then I did a little deeper dive and he was willing to shoot the three more and be aggressive in shooting that. And he hit some clutch shots from three over the course of the season. So it gave you the appearance that he'd become more of that go to guy. But it was at the cost of his mid range game and finishing at the rim. He took fewer shots at the rim this season than he ever has in his career. And his mid range went down as well. What compensated for that? He took nearly half of his shots from three point range. So now we're looking at your go to guy who if his three point shot is not falling, which it has not in this series, what's he going to. And on the other side of the equation, you have the New York Knicks who have the most clutch player, who is comfortable playing at all three levels. Jayson Tatum has morphed where maybe at the beginning of his career you could say he was a three, you know, three level scorer. He's not now.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so I want to throw this at you, is that. And this is where I defended him. I said the G, Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens essentially are the franchise. They have built this passing shooting, you know, it's a very offensive minded franchise. And because Tatum is such a collaborative guy, he'll beat guys off the dribble, pull back three. Yeah, Michael and Kobe would have fought this. They would have said, and I love the Zen master, Phil Jackson knew there were moments we're not running the triangle. Michael's taking it over this organization. It's almost like the GMs have too much power. It's so analytically driven that Tatum, you can watch him, Rick, he'll beat guys off the dribble, pull back and take a worse shot.

[Rick Bucher]

You saw it in game one. I mean, Joe Missoula said, hey took 63s but they were good looks. So essentially I'm good with us taking 63s and the thought is you shouldn't be good with that because you lost and there are other ways to play the game. And maybe the best thing, not that I'm wishing that the Boston Celtics lose or not repeat, but perhaps the best thing for the game would be if they get knocked out with their philosophy because it's a copycat league. Yes, people believe that if you take, I mean, I can Literally tell you. And plenty of GMs and coaches hate it. But they've been told analytically, they've been shown the formula, take a certain number of threes, you have a better chance of winning versus teams that are. That are following that formula.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, but are they considering Adam Silver telling the officiating crews let it be muddied up?

[Rick Bucher]

Well, that's the huge difference here. And that's what we're seeing.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's why road teams, by the way, my theory, why are road teams and underdogs doing well? Because if you have two teams, one with a better record, with a home court advantage, a pretty offensive team and the league goes, you can wrestle with them. Well, it's the finesse team is like, whoa. And the wrestling team is like, well, this is who we are. So you're finding these teams like New York and Golden State, by the way, without Steph, they love grabbing and pushing. Tonight's game. Now, I think Minnesota will win, but my. Take it. We're seeing all these underdogs win the leagues, allowing officiating that plays to the less aesthetically pleasing team. The grinders, the grabbers. And that's what the Knicks are.

[Rick Bucher]

Well, essentially it makes it a lower scoring game.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

And it becomes a possession by possession game. And you're right. And I don't know that we've ever seen the physicality. It's crazy that we've seen in this playoffs.

[Colin Cowherd]

I love it. So do I.

[Rick Bucher]

Right. Because it forces. The other thing it forces you to do, by and large, is if you're going to create shots, you. You have to run offense.

[Colin Cowherd]

Real offense.

[Rick Bucher]

Yes, real offense. You can't just come down and chuck shots or expect that you're going to get to the rim.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so now old JMAC threw this one out there. He said, if you get beaten five games or four, and I don't think they will, but you get beat by the Knicks.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Brian Winhorst today said, listen, if they just keep their first round pick and fill the roster with a pick, they can't even bring Al Horse Horford back. They'll be over 500 million.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

He said they're gonna make moves here. And I do think, here's my take is that we thought Denver was going to win multiple and then they get rid of a. Was a Bruce Brown, Bruce Brown Pope. All of a sudden you look up.

[Rick Bucher]

And you're like Jeff Green.

[Colin Cowherd]

We're just, we're just a good team.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

What would change that for Boston Giannis? So you go Giannis and Tatum and now you have a true dog in the number one. And so my take is if they lose, you're not. Should you just do it Denver and go. You know, we'll lose a couple pieces but we'll be very good. You kind of have a passive star on this.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

And, and, and so I get. My take is you have to make a move if you get shelled by the Knicks, do you not?

[Rick Bucher]

I would expect that they would. I, I thought that they would, they would carry the freight and you would pay the price. If you win the championship and you have a chance at a three peat, you're almost obligated to try to bring everybody back. Al Horford, I can give or take essentially, if you're keeping the rest of that core. And by the way, a big factor here that we're not going to get into now. But Krzysztaf Sporzingis only being partially available is a big factor in this because he's the one guy who has a mid range game. That's where I would push back on you with Giannis being the solution. Yes, he's going to bring more dog and aggression, but he's not your go to closer. Again, what you're seeing is the teams that are winning against this physicality. It's basically we're going to run you off the three point line and we're going to meet you at the rim and we're allowed to body you when you're going to the rim. So you're not going to score at the same level. So what do you have for a mid range game? The teams that are being successful all have mid range scorers and that's the one thing that Boston is missing with Kristaps Porzingis not being available. That's where he was key and that's where he's most valuable.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I think when we think of the warriors because of the Splash brothers and because Steve Kerr is the coach and Steph Curry, we think offense, they're actually the league's best defense since Jimmy Butler arrived. And the advantage of not playing with Steph is they can even. It's almost like hockey. You don't need anybody to protect your Gretzky.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Curry may be gone.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

They can double down on physicality. Yep.

[Rick Bucher]

Yep.

[Colin Cowherd]

And who are you going to go after?

[Rick Bucher]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Like, like Butler loves physicality in a weird. Now, I'm not saying I do think the warriors can win a game and push it to a 6 or a 7 without Steph.

[J. Mac]

Do you?

[Rick Bucher]

I think it's possible because I think that their basketball IQ and their system trumps all the other advantages that Minnesota has. Minnesota is more athletic, they're deeper, they're more versatile, bigger, all of that. But basketball IQ and your system can negate all of that, as we saw in game one. Right. Because you had Buddy Heald and any number of guys fitting in. Now, I do believe that Minnesota is going to be. They're going to respect Buddy Heald and they're going to respect Draymond Green and Gary Payton in a way that they didn't.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Rick Bucher]

In that first game. And I think if you saw it down the stretch, once you tighten up on them, they're not the same three point shooters. Right, Right. So. And by the way, the warriors are an example of what you're talking about with Boston. They were the first team to run into. We won a championship and then. But we did it on lesser contracts and now we pay everybody and, and now we're. Now we can't add the pieces that we would think boss start handing them off. That's Denver did, right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[J. Mac]

Right.

[Rick Bucher]

They had to, they had to get frugal. And on top of that, Adam Silver looked at it and said, I don't want anybody. Or not. Adam Silver. The owners without as much money said, you can't let these guys just pay the luxury tax because they can afford to. That's not fair. Because they're going to just keep adding players. Right. And they're going to go get the, the, the free agents that get the buyouts. Right. And join. And so, so Adam was like, okay, here's the compromise. We're going to take away all of your ability. Like, we're going to, we're going to tax you even more.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

And then we're going to take away the exceptions. We're going to take away. If you make a trade, it's got to be one for one. Like, we're going to make it so difficult for you to do anything with your roster above and beyond what you have, that that is going to even the playing field. And that's essentially what you have, what teams are now facing.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, no, I mean, I, we were theorizing earlier, why are there so many upsets? Because there's not a great team and Boston's the best team. They're a good team. But I mean, I watch Indiana and I watched Indiana and Cleveland and I'm like, if Garland's not playing, Indiana is a better basketball team. They're just a better basketball team.

[Rick Bucher]

And what's, and what do those teams have in common and the ones that are the up and comers is that they haven't paid their stars yet. By and large. You're not paying Andrew Nemhardt yet. You're not paying Aaron NE Smith. Right. And, and so, and Oklahoma City's in the same, in the same boat. They really haven't had to pay anybody yet. And the rest of the Western Conference, there's a difference between one or two games between, Right, between the, the second seed and the seventh seed. So that parody is already there.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so this was, I talked about this yesterday. I think the Lakers and the Clippers, but let's talk Lakers. I think they're a bit diluted. I think the marquee looks big. The movie's not. This is a player that won't get in shape. Austin Reeves is undrafted and got overwhelmed athletically against Minnesota. LeBron's older and it's key. You can't ask him to play 75 games then be brilliant in the postseason. They don't have a big. The coach likes. And I'm not sure the coach is quite ready to be next level yet. That's the movie, the marquee sound. J.J. redick, LeBron, Luca. It sounds great. I'm not saying it's Ishtar, but it's, it's not the Godfather. Okay, so the marquee is way better than the movie. You could fix that though, if LeBron took the least he's allowed to take. And with that radio audience, Rick is shaking his head. What do you, what do you, why do you do that?

[Rick Bucher]

So, so he's got to take chance. There's a couple things. Number one, you're not going to be able, you need to turn the page. It, you need to. It's not, we're not remaking the movie. We, we have a different leading star and we need. And we did. We need to get him a different plot.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes. Because.

[Rick Bucher]

And a different supporting cast.

[Colin Cowherd]

We know he needs bigs because there's only one way to build around Luca size.

[Rick Bucher]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

You can't do it any other way.

[Rick Bucher]

But you also have to make it his team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, fine.

[Rick Bucher]

And as long as LeBron James is in LA, regardless of how much he's making, LeBron James is the, the when, when you walk into the locker room where you're going to look, there's Luca's locker and there's LeBron's locker, which you're still looking at.

[Colin Cowherd]

They should trade him.

[Rick Bucher]

No, I, I, I don't I wouldn't say that because I don't think that they can get anything significant for him. I'm just saying that you're not going to be able to build your next title contending team until LeBron is gone. And I'm not ushering him into retirement. I'm not suggesting that he should retire, but he can take whatever he wants. First of all, he's making 52 million next year. Okay. If you there, if you, if you sign the minimum and you let all of the cap holds and the unrestricted free agents go, like the Jackson Hayes and the Alex Lens and all that, I think you would have $10 million worth of cap room. What's that going to do for you? I don't know that it's going to do enough. And that's not even counting the fact that you have to resign, presumably. Resign? Dorian Finney Smith.

[Colin Cowherd]

You can trade Austin Reeves, can't you?

[Rick Bucher]

I know, but what are you gonna. What are you gonna get for Austin Reeves?

[Colin Cowherd]

How about that big guy in Brooklyn, Nick?

[Rick Bucher]

Which big?

[Colin Cowherd]

Nick Claxton.

[Rick Bucher]

Okay. Like, is that going to change you?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, it gives you big.

[Rick Bucher]

I don't know, but it's like it's one piece that you need and they need like three or four pieces.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, I don't think they're a championship team. I'm saying if LeBron did that, it would get. I can't look at. I can't look at San Antonio, Oklahoma City and Houston. All the picks and all the young talent. Yeah. This is the worst they'll ever be.

[Rick Bucher]

Fair.

[Colin Cowherd]

And. And you want me to put the Lakers in that class. I can't.

[Rick Bucher]

No, no, no. Agreed, agreed. But if we're going to get. If we're going to get, let's say essentially we're going to give Luka Doncis the team that we last saw him have in Dallas, that he took to the, to the Finals.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Rick Bucher]

Which is that. That's. That's the blueprint.

[J. Mac]

Right?

[Rick Bucher]

Right. You didn't have just Nick Claxton, you had Derek Lively and Daniel Gaff.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Rick Bucher]

So you had a big. On the floor at all Times. You had PJ Washington, who far better defender than LeBron James is right now, maybe not quite the scorer playmaker, but you didn't need that because you had Luka Doncic.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right.

[Rick Bucher]

So I just look, and then, you know, they picked up Derrick Jones off of. Off the scrap heap. Oh, and by the way, you had Kyrie Irving, who played a monstrous role in the playoffs last year. That's probably overlooked Yeah, I don't have that quality of a number two. And no, LeBron James isn't capable of being what Kyrie Irving was last year at this stage of his career. So, again, like, it's, It's. For me, the heart of it is until you can start looking at this, as we're building around Luka Doncic, you're still comp. You're compensating the fact that you have LeBron James, your former superstar, still sitting there right next to him. Does that. Am I like, does that make.

[Colin Cowherd]

I just think LA is in the business of selling us movies. And what the Clippers and the Lakers to a larger degree are selling us is a really average movie with a great poster.

[Rick Bucher]

When was the last time that the Lakers legitimately were a title contender?

[Colin Cowherd]

Take out the COVID year.

[Rick Bucher]

I'll give you the COVID year. It's still five years, Right?

[Colin Cowherd]

Right. Yeah.

[Rick Bucher]

So we've, in our minds, we've always had them. Oh, they're just a piece away. They're right there. They could go and yeah, I know they went to the Western Conference finals, got swept by Denver.

[Colin Cowherd]

But let me ask this. So let's just get down to the Giannis piece, okay? Because we all felt with the Knicks, they need another piece, and maybe they do, but it may not be as big a piece of as everybody thinks, because maybe Brunson is a one and he's not a top five or six one, but between Bridges and og, and you're like, well, we don't need it because our two and our three and Josh Hart. So my takeaway is new information creates new opinion. I thought they got to make a big Giannis move. And I'm like, well, Giannis would be great because Brunson and Hart are great free throw shooters late. So you wouldn't have to have Giannis necessarily close.

[Rick Bucher]

Sure, sure.

[Colin Cowherd]

Giannis would give you leads and Hart and Brunson, ball in their hands, get fouled. So I think Giannis would make them. And to me, Giannis Brun, if you could keep. But you'd have to give up so much to get him. I guess this is the question. If the Knicks knock off Boston and they get to the Eastern Conference finals and they beat Boston, they can get to the final. I'm sitting there thinking, maybe they just need another Mikhail Bridges level guy. Or doesn't it not change how we think about the Knicks needing blank. Yeah, this series is changing how I think if the NBA is going to allow tug of war during the playoffs, I'm not sure they need a lot.

[Rick Bucher]

No, I agree with that. I think it's wide open. I think the Indiana Pacers and the New York Knicks both are capable of getting to the to the Finals.

[Colin Cowherd]

They just keep changing big. So you keep heart Brunson, OG McHale and then you just every year or two try to get a big that fits.

[Rick Bucher]

Yes. Here's the thing though. That and it's not as sexy as Giannis going to New York. But and I agree with you a thousand percent, what I want to pair him with is a dynamic point guard who can be who's my closer. That's what I want. And so you have that Oklahoma City, you have that in where else am I thinking? I looked at Orlando with Paolo Banchero as a point forward. I think that works. Houston? Not quite there. Detroit, I think is a great pairing with Cade Cunningham and those teams have young pieces and draft capital. If I'm Milwaukee, would I getting Karl Anthony Towns? I would rather have a number of picks and a couple of young dynamic players that I'm I'm starting over with than going to try to get an established star and build around Karl Anthony Towns. I already saw that movie in Minnesota and it didn't get that far.

[Colin Cowherd]

Rick Bucher Good stuff delivered.

[Rick Bucher]

I think we got a lot done today.

[Colin Cowherd]

We did.

[Rick Bucher]

We were very efficient.

[Colin Cowherd]

Spring cleaning. We got everything bagged up and ready to go.

[Rick Bucher]

Yeah. There'll be more next week.

[Colin Cowherd]

Live in la. It's the herd.

[J. Mac]

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Can I get you a refill?

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[Colin Cowherd]

You're listening to an I Heart podcast.