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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human. This message is brought to you by Apple Card Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com Service opens doors and at the American Military University it can open doors for the whole family. If you have a loved one who served in the military, you may qualify for reduced tuition. AMU offers flexible online programs designed to fit your schedule so you can keep moving forward wherever life takes you. Learn more at any AMU Apus Edu Military Open doors to the future for you and your family with the help of American Military University. 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Order a sample today. Visit decorators.com herd to get your free sample. That's Decorators with A K. Again, decorators.com herd thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. It is Friday. My guy John middelkopf's last day here this week. He's been great. It is live in Chicago, the Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Marcus Freeman's joining us in one hour. The Notre Dame coach. The two best running backs in this draft are both Notre Dame guys and one of them is spectacular and the other one's going to be a playmaker as well in this league. And had a fun week. Of course, the draft now less than two weeks away. So I was thinking about something this morning about how it is remarkable in my life. You know, I got gray hair a few years ago, really gray. And one of the things I think about a lot, I've been in the business 35 years is how everything changes. And you're either going to be there for it, you can complain about it. It's like Rick Patino talked about. The nil. Adapt or die. And I saw this morning the Big Ten earned $69.5 million just from the basketball tournament because they got nine teams in from the Big Ten and they appeared in 29 games. And the NCAA pays conferences and pays you based on number of teams that get in and number of games you advance. So I put it on the board. Big Ten right now is on fire and getting bigger and stronger. The SEC is holding steady but regressed a little. Big 12's holding on. They got great college basketball in the ACC, Notre Dame, Miami are crushing. And I do think it's sustainable. And I was thinking about this. There used to be a conference called the Southwest Conference. It was big. Arkansas was in it. Texas I think was in it. It died. Greed and cheating. It didn't die because of the nil. I grew up in the West Coast. The PAC 8 became the PAC 10 became the PAC 12. It died. It wasn't because of the nil. Back to back, lousy commissioners who thought tennis mattered as much as football and really bad TV deals. Army, Navy dominated in the 50s culture and the world changed. Big east basketball. When I was in high school and college, it felt like. It felt like it was almost the NBA. It's not the same. Has nothing to do with the nil. Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma all bailed on the Big 12. Are we going to blame the transfer portal for that? It is easy to blame the NIL and the transfer portal, but college sports. And the reason is because in college sports everybody is protecting their own. You know what? It's very self serving. It's why you don't have a commissioner. Nobody could agree on one, right? Everybody's out for themselves. I grew up on the West coast, the PAC 10, outside of Oregon and Washington. The stadiums were often empty. Teams were making $35 million a year in their TV deal. They were making 75 in the Big Ten and 80 or close to it in the SEC. USC. I had a discussion with a USC athletic director seven years ago complaining about the conference. How do we not make more than Oregon State? I work in TV and radio. Radio? Oh, it's not the same as it used to be. Well, iheart has pivoted smartly to on demand, to podcasting. A television. Cable's not as big. Well, Fox created Tubi. The Fox one app is on fire. I mean, the company's just buying, buying, spending, buying. Look at our stock price. Incredibly healthy change is coming. Everybody wants to blame the nil. I got news for you. I saw that number this morning with the Big Ten. Those are big markets. They're strong, getting stronger. And for 20 years, the SEC, which is still very viable, used to have a slogan, it just means more. Well, the slogan today in college football is, it just costs more, and the Big Ten just makes more. You can. You can point fingers. It's not going anywhere because there are key indicators. You ever heard that saying before on the stock market? Key indicators? Let me give you four in college sports that are on fire. Revenues, ratings, passion and quality. Those are key indicators. Up, up, up, up, up. When I'm watching the Big Ten make $70 million just on men's and women's basketball tournaments, you think the Big Ten people want new referendums and massive change. They are doubling down on this. And by the way, Notre Dame still crushing Miami's better now than they've been in years. USC thinks they have their best football team since Pete Carroll. Lane Kiffin now at lsu. Ohio State's always going to be Ohio State. Yeah, you keep telling me it's not sustainable. Dusty May of the Michigan Wolverines, the national champions, says, you know, we're in big cities, we got a lot of money. Our boosters are passionate. We're not going. The Big Ten's not going anywhere. I think the Big Ten is positioned to do this type of thing every year. You look at how much sports and athletics mean on Big Ten campuses and the resources available. Everyone in the Big Ten is the west coast schools. Everyone has the ability to generate revenue for their players, significant revenue for their players. And so there's no reason why the Big Ten doesn't do what we've been able to do in football. Southwest Conference, Army, Navy dominance. Pac 12 died Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, bailed on the Big 12. I'm watching all these things over the course of my life and my takeaway is some of these were. Most of these were. Almost all of these were pre Y2K. I mean, come on. I mean, I'm a PAC12 guy. We couldn't keep up too many pro sports. Weather's good, A lot more hikers, walkers, skiers out west. Just didn't want to watch Stanford football live. Okay, So I, I don't know what Tom Thibodeau Tibbs did to people in New York, but every time they go on a three game winning streak or they win a game, they bring out the knives for Tibbs. I saw this headline. The Knicks in a close game beat the Celtics last night. The headline is Mike Brown proves the Knicks made the right choice. Moving on from Tom Thibodeau. Okay, so an April home win over the Celtics who didn't have Jalen Brown. That really is the defining moment of the season. Am I wrong here? Didn't Tibbs get the Knicks into the Eastern Conference finals last year? But beating the Jalen Brown? Lesson Celtics. The Knicks trail with two minutes left, came back to win the game. That's the deciding factor. Listen, Tibbs isn't perfect. Little more offense, creativity, offensive ingenuity. I would have been preferred it, but didn't he win a playoff series in three straight years? You have to go back to like Jeff Van Gundy. I mean you got to go, you got to go back to Jeff Van Gundy for that to happen. The Knicks are viable now. They're fun to watch. Stop making Tibbs who is not perfect. Let's not bring out the knives for Tibs because you beat the Celtics without Jalen Brown in April in a game Boston probably doesn't care much about. Here's some facts about the Knicks that Mike Brown and Tibbs can't solve. Bench scoring, awful, can't defend. The three don't generate free throws and your two best players, Brunson and Cat, you can pick and roll to death late in games. Tibbs couldn't solve it. Mike Brown can't solve it. By the way, this year the Knicks are.05 against OKC in Detroit and Detroit's hammered him. So last night feels big for them. They beat like a good team that is missing their MVP candidate. Okay, I think the Knicks are fun. I think the Knicks are good. I think in the playoffs they're going to need better bench scoring. Mikhail Bridges, for the record, way better though. Way better with Tibbs than he is with Mike Brown. Not blaming Mike Brown, but if you're going to blame Tibbs, who got to the Eastern Conference finals every time they go on a winning streak or beat a team without an MVP candidate, I think that's fair. So OG's better. Mikhail Bridges worse. I'm just spitting facts here. That's all we do. So blaming Tibbs to me is like firing your financial planner. When you waste money, you have a spending issue. I'm firing my broker. I'm firing my financial. You got no bench. It's a lopsided roster. You can't defend the three. You don't generate free throws. So the Knicks roster has holes. Neither coach can solve them. It's why they're not a championship team. Jalen Brunson, after the win over Boston
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Marcus Freeman
last night, this had a playoff feel to it. The building obviously sounded loud. This is another game, just like in Atlanta. Is this what you're looking for to
- [12:13]
Stacy King
prepare for the playoffs?
- [12:15]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Playing good teams,
- [12:19]
Stacy King
continuing to get better and still trying to find ways to win. And I think we're doing a good job of sticking together and no matter
- [12:27]
Colin Cowherd
what happens throughout the game and we
- [12:29]
Marcus Freeman
keep finding a way.
- [12:30]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, so stuff gets out when people want it out. Whenever you see a leak in a White House, you see a leak at a company, it's because somebody wants it out. And the betting odds on the NFL draft on who's going to go number two have shifted. Now this is, this is good news for the jets in my opinion. With a number two pick, David Bailey is now the favorite to go to the Jets. But why did the odds change? I've got thoughts on that on a Friday from Chicago coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, not 10am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.
- [13:19]
Marcus Freeman
Fox Sports Radio is taking over YouTube and you can be a part of it.
- [13:24]
Colin Cowherd
Just go to YouTube and search Fox Sports Radio. Hit that subscribe button and smash that notification bell and catch all the videos
- [13:30]
Marcus Freeman
from your favorite shows.
- [13:32]
Colin Cowherd
Two pros and a cup of junk. Dan Patrick, Colin Cowherd, Stu Gotz and company Live, Covino and Rich, the Odd Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington, the Jason Smith show with Mike Harmon and the Ben Maller Show.
- [13:43]
Marcus Freeman
Fox sports radio on YouTube.
- [13:46]
Colin Cowherd
Subscribe. Hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.
- [13:52]
Stacy King
And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go
- [13:55]
Colin Cowherd
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Something iced and fun. But now afternoons have a new go to because Starbucks just launched their new energy refreshers. They're the Starbucks refreshers flavors everybody already loves, like the Strawberry Acai Pink Drink and Dragon Drink, now with an added boost of caffeine to power you through the rest of your day. Plus you can try new flavors like Mango Strawberry Energy Refresher or the Mango Dream Energy Drink. They're bright, fruity, super refreshing. When that afternoon slump hits, whatever flavor you like, Starbucks energy refreshers are exactly what you need to take on the moments that matter. So next time the afternoon slowdown kicks in, head to your nearest Starbucks and try one of the new energy refreshers. Or order one right now on the Starbucks app. Here's something that'll freak you out. Most people think their insurance will cover them if disaster strikes. But here's the truth. Many are wrong. You pay your premiums, you assume you're protected. Then the fine print hits. Exclusions, loopholes, limits. Suddenly that coverage you counted on isn't really coverage at all. It's not your agent's fault. Their job is to sell policies. You need somebody in your corner who protects you, not the insurance company. That's why I like my policy advocate. I like what they're doing. They take your actual policies. Home, life, auto, break them down in plain English. They show you what's really covered and what isn't. Here's the best part. Cost 27 cents a day. That's it. Less than a cup of coffee for peace of mind to make sure your family's protected when it matters most. When disaster hits, you don't want surprises. You want certainty. Before you assume you're covered, go to my policy advocate.com. let them review your policy. You might be shocked at what you'll find my policy advocate.com Marcus Freeman, top of the hour, 45 minutes. So David Bailey, who would be my number two pick, he's a best pure, just edge rusher defined. He's gotten significantly better this year from last year. The odds have suddenly changed. He is now moved ahead of Arvel Reese, who has a higher ceiling. But Reese does not necessarily have a defined position yet. So what happened? Well, people Talk, people gossip. Two days ago, three well known insiders, McShay, Albert Brer, Peter Schrager, all mentioned. A couple days ago, I'm hearing David Bailey to the Jets. Hmm, why? Why would that be? I have a theory. I don't think the jets head coach is going to survive the season. And my theory, I've said this for years. I always look for disgruntled employees or desperate employees. They talk people in that jets building, when the coaching staff gets run out of the building, they want to retain their jobs. Whenever I see a leak or all of a sudden I see a line move or multiple insiders have the same opinion. Folks, people are loyal to their families and the NFL pays a lot, good pensions, you know, along with the English Premier League, it's the best sports league in the world. And what are people looking for if somebody's going to get blown out? Alliances and support, that's what they are. So I mean, that's why when the Patriots for 20 years, it was completely covert. There were no leaks. The coach was great, the owner was great, the quarterback was great. They were winning. Kansas City Chiefs don't have a lot of leaks. They're winning. I mean, the Seattle Seahawks, John Snyder, you don't hear any leaks. Things get out when people want them out. And so to me, it's not just that insiders all collectively said, I'm hearing David Bailey, it's now the odds are moving. And you've seen this before. I can remember years ago, Reggie Bush was considered a consensus number one. And then a couple of days before the draft, you were hearing Mario Williams. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What? Who got drafted number one. It was the rumor, Mario Williams. Right. So when you hear stuff, I believe it because I think this stuff all comes. I mean, everybody talks about the gambling markets and the poly markets. We got people in the White House talking, you know, what are the odds? We go into war, suddenly they just shifted, boom, war. I mean, that's the way it works. People gossip, people are protecting themselves. So when I hear the David Bailey rumors, my take is it's probably true. Somebody in the building, you know, people are always looking to curry favor. The NFL jobs, they're not a lot of them. The pension's great. I mean, you get a little bit of an off season. It's, it's now I would take Bailey over Arvell Reese because I think the jets need six good players, not one potential superst play. Arvell Reese has this great ceiling. Dane Brugler of the Athletic released his comprehensive draft report and talked about the comp between Bailey, who I like, and Reese. I think it's fair to say it's close. I mean, yeah, you can't ignore what Bailey did this year. I wouldn't say that he's, you know, necessarily the most complete defensive end where I'm going to put that quote unquote safe label on him.
- [20:20]
Marcus Freeman
But if you want a guy that
- [20:21]
Colin Cowherd
can just scream off the edge and
- [20:23]
Marcus Freeman
going to put pressure on the quarterback,
- [20:25]
Colin Cowherd
Bailey can absolutely do that. But in my opinion, Arvl Reese is the best player in this draft and he may be right. And he's not the only person that thinks that. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app service opens doors and at the American Military University, it can open doors for the whole family. If you have a loved one who served in the military, you may qualify for reduced tuition. AMU offers flexible online programs designed to fit your schedules so you can keep moving forward wherever life takes you. Learn more at AMU Apus Edu Military open doors to the future for you and your family with the help of American Military University Some people have a Starbucks order depending on their mood. Morning coffee weekend, something iced and fun. But now afternoons have a new go to because Starbucks just launched. They're new energy refreshers. They're the Starbucks refreshers flavors everybody already loves, like the Strawberry Acai Pink Drink and Dragon Drink, now with an added boost of caffeine to power you through the rest of your day. Plus, you can try new flavors like Mango Strawberry Energy Refresher or the Mango Dream Energy Drink. They're bright, fruity, super refreshing. When that afternoon slump hits whatever flavor you like, Starbucks Energy Refreshers are exactly what you need to take on the moments that matter. So next time the afternoon slowdown kicks in, head to your nearest Starbucks and try one of the new energy Refreshers. Or order one right now on the Starbucks app. Here's something that'll freak you out Most people think their insurance will cover them if disaster strikes. But here's the truth. Many are wrong. You pay your premiums, you assume you're protected. Then the fine print hits. Exclusions, loopholes, limits. Suddenly that coverage you counted on isn't really coverage at all. It's not your agent's fault. Their job is to sell policies. You need somebody in your corner who protects you, not the insurance company. That's why I like my policy advocate. I like what they're doing. They take your actual policies. Home, life, auto, break them down in plain English. They show you what's really covered and what isn't. Here's the best part. Cost 27 cents a day. That's it. Less than a cup of coffee for peace of mind to make sure your family's protected when it matters most. When disaster hits, you don't want surprises. You want certainty. Before you assume you're covered, go to mypolicyadvocate.com let them review your policy. You might be shocked at what you'll find. MyPolicyAdvocate.com support for the show comes from public. Lately, the line between investing and gambling has started to blur. But let's be real, you can't build actual wealth on a coin flip. That's why Public takes a different approach. It's the investing platform where you can build a serious long term portfolio. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto, they have it all. But unlike platforms that basically just give you a buy button, public provides actual context. So when you see volatility in your portfolio, you aren't just staring at a chart. You're reading a helpful explanation about why the stock is up or down. You can even go deeper with the built in AI research assistant. It's all about giving you the information you need to invest with conviction. Be right. More often, go to public.com and earn an uncapped 1% match when you transfer your investments. Public Investing for those who take it seriously Ad paid for by Public Holdings Brokerage Services by Public Investing member finra, SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors SEC Registered Advisor all investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures@public.com disclosures he's the head football coach at Notre Dame. He was, I think it's fair to say, the hottest coach on the market. I've said before, if I was building a college football program today, he would be my number one choice. It's Marcus Freeman who's got time for us today in the crazy world of college football and college sports, he is joining us. You always got a smile on your face. I guess right now you can be in a good mood. You got your quarterback coming back. You know, people complain about the portal in the nil. And I was talking to a friend about this, and I said, the advantage to being Notre Dame is, is if you go to Notre Dame, football's great. You're not just going to Notre Dame or maybe a Stanford for the football. So in the world of complaining about the portal, has it been perhaps because of the academic, historic relevance of Notre Dame? Has that made it a little easier for you?
- [25:09]
Marcus Freeman
I don't know if it's easier. I just say that I truly believe that we have something to offer young people maybe in the midst of struggling to get their football production where they want it, right? And so we have to remind them of the value of the education and what it does for you beyond the game of football. And I hope by the time they say, okay, I want more as an individual in our football program, they say, well, I'm not going to leave until at least I get my degree. But the other thing, Colin, I think that's important, is they have to feel valued, right? Like, I know everything outside of the building talks about what you get or what you do and, you know, how many yards you have. But if you can find a way to make them feel valued, right, in the role that they have, currently, you're able to keep a lot of your players there.
- [26:05]
Colin Cowherd
So Notre Dame fans got all mad at me. They usually, like me, got mad at me because I said, listen, I know you love usc, Notre Dame, but just hear me out. I said, I grew up with a PAC 12. The conference got, you know, ended. I said, I three years ago, four years ago, if you paid a high school football player, it was the death penalty. Now everybody's doing it. I said, I just gave up on tradition. I love Auburn, Alabama. I love Ohio State, Michigan. I just gave up. I mean, I may replace me in 15 days. Like, I gave up. And my take is Notre Dame and USC can eventually play. I think they'll play again. And by the way, it may be in the playoff. But I looked at the world and I thought, Marcus, sometimes you can fight it. I mean, Rick Pitino told me two weeks ago. He goes, I don't even recruit high schoolers anymore. I gave up. I'm just going to go. I'm going to go buy kids. So I look at Notre Dame and I think, you'll be fine. Why did you want to play that game so badly? Why did it mean so much to you? A Young coach.
- [27:10]
Marcus Freeman
Yeah, well, I think the, for me, it was the rivalry, right? It was not the implications of the game, it was the. The rivalry that no matter what your record is, it means something when you win that game. And I think as I grew up watching college football, you think of the great games between Notre Dame and usc. And so when you have a rival and you take it personal and you say, hey, we want to continue this game and this rival if we can, but again, it didn't work out for them and didn't work out for us and we're all going to be okay, as you just said. Right. But if you can choose to or have the opportunity to get that game, that rivalry on your schedule, you want to do it. And I think in the future we will be able to do it. But, you know, there are a lot of people. Whose fault is it? Notre Dame, usc? That didn't matter. It's just like it didn't work. Didn't work.
- [28:04]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Okay. You had the best two running backs in the country in terms of draft status. One of them reminds me of Jeremiah Gibbs. Jeremiah Love is just a home run hitter, a Jadarian Price. One of the staff guys asked me this morning and I said, little ball security issue, I think, if I recall. But other than that, very good player. So let's start with Love. Coaches deserve credit development. When, when did he, in the process, did you go, you guys, we got, we got a Saquon Barkley. Ish. Like, I'm not discrediting Marcus Freeman and the staff, but at some point, when did you go, guys, this is, this is not just a really, really good college back.
- [28:49]
Marcus Freeman
Yeah, it didn't take long. And you know what? Great players like Jeremiah Love make coaches look really good. And listen, I'll take the credit. I'll take the credit. I don't even coach running backs and I'll take the credit. But man, Colin, he is a unicorn. He is as talented and gifted of an athlete as I've ever been around. And I think he could be an elite wide receiver, he could be an elite db. He's just gifted with a unique skill set. The balance, the ability to jump over you, the ability to run through you. The ability, like some of his most impressive runs aren't the ones that you're going to see on tv. It's the ones that as you're watching. Oh, my God, he made that play. A four yard gain. It should have been a two yard loss. I mean, he's just, he's really special and he's a unique, unique talent.
- [29:40]
Colin Cowherd
So Jadarian Price, let's say I'm an NFL gm, second, third round, I get Jadarian Price. How can he be best utilized in pro football, do you think?
- [29:48]
Marcus Freeman
Yeah, I think he's a complete running back. He is a running back and I've seen the way he's improved in the past game in terms of protection. He's got deceptive speed like his ability to take the ball vertically but also get it east and west and then get vertical again is really unique and rare. But he gives you return special teams value. He is a as good of a running back that I've coached in our name. But Jeremiah Love might be as good as any player I've ever been around.
- [30:24]
Colin Cowherd
So a lot of, you know, it's funny, college sports, the coaches are getting older, pro sports, they're getting younger. And I think one of my reasons I believe this is true is because college football and basketball has gotten more administrative. It's not about going, you don't need like 38 year old guy energy. You can write checks. So, you know, the Patinos are like Tom Izzo, they're like, you know, it's kind of fun and you know, and listen, it's, it's, it's hard what your job is. A lot of hours. You were. Obviously there was a lot of NFL interest. A couple times in my life I've had to sit down with a yellow pad and write down pro con here, stay, go. Well, in the end, was there a certain factor that you said, listen, I got a lot of people interested on Sunday football. I'm going to stay with Saturday football. Was there a deciding factor?
- [31:15]
Marcus Freeman
I think for me the probably the deciding factor was love for the job I have now and the care I have for the players, the support I have for this program. Listen, the NFL, the more I'm starting
- [31:29]
Stacy King
to realize
- [31:32]
Marcus Freeman
you're set up to go 500 now.
- [31:34]
Stacy King
Right.
- [31:34]
Marcus Freeman
And they don't want you to be good. They don't want you to continuously win, win, win. They're going to make it as hard as possible when you do have success. And it's good to know. Right. It was just things that I was made aware of as we continue to talk to some different NFL personnel and administrative. But I have such a special, special job and one that is so well supported that we have to continuously work. But you're going to have opportunities to have success every single year. And so be careful of always wanting more, more, more when you have something really good.
- [32:13]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. So I like C.J. carr. I think, boy, there's a lot of good quarterbacks out there. I mean it's, everybody's talking, Arch Manning is, they're just so, I mean next year in the Big Ten there's about seven different guys I like. I mean it's just like they all have a strength, a weakness. Let's talk CJ Carr. Where is he in the process of his development? Where does he need work and where has he really refined his game?
- [32:40]
Marcus Freeman
Colin, like when I tell you he is gifted but also like the way he prepares. I don't know if I've ever been around somebody that's prepared the way he's prepared. I'm going to tell you a quick story. He's red shirting in 2024, no chance of playing. He's not the starter, he's not the backup, he's not even the third string. He's the red shirt quarterback. And I remember one evening, probably eight o', clock, nine o', clock, looking in the indoor and he was in there going through a practice script like quarterbacks do and making motions and throwing it and I remember saying like this guy is never going to play, he's not going to play. And this is how he's preparing. And now fast forward three years later, like he still does that. He watches his freshman year spring practice. Like he prepares. Like you would think the grandson of Lloyd Carr and the son of a quarterback at Michigan would, would prepare. I mean it's such a gift and he works his tail off. He's as probably as competitive as a person I've ever been around. Like he's an elite and fierce competitor which I believe is a gift. Like it's hard to become that competitive. I mean he has a gift to be that competitive, but he is, he's special now he's got areas improvement all around the game of football, right? Decision making, recognizing defense and putting ball placement. Like we, there's always capacity to improve. If you believe you don't have capacity to, to improve, well guess what, you're not going to do the work to find the answers. But he has that. But I'm telling you man, he is a unique person, a unique talent. I'm grateful we have him now.
- [34:18]
Colin Cowherd
Hey, by the way, you, you know, your defense, Reuben Bain, you guys played Miami and everybody's saying, man, he's got short arms. I'm like, I don't know, I watched him play like eight times, I didn't notice it like at all. When you hear that about Ruben Bane, short arms what's your interpretation of that?
- [34:36]
Marcus Freeman
Oh, my God. Watch the film. Stop overvaluating measurements and times. Watch the film. I remember having the same conversation. So I saw Reuben Bain in person, obviously, when they played us. And I watched him throughout the season as I was getting ready to do the national championship game. And you talk about production, you talk about a guy that doesn't get blocked one on one. He is. He's really, really good. But I remember there was a conversation about Kyle Hamilton, right? That he went 46 or something at the combine or something. I kept going, guys, just watch the film. Now. I don't know, he might be the highest paid safety in the film. Right? Like he's just. Just watch the film. So don't over evaluate arm length or. Okay, is he a 4, 6 versus 4 or 5? Like, when the film speaks so highly, it tells you a lot. I'm always cautious of the people that test really, really well. But the film doesn't match.
- [35:29]
Stacy King
Right?
- [35:30]
Marcus Freeman
Right. And those are the ones like, if you're not a great player and productive player in college, it's hard to be in the NFL.
- [35:36]
Colin Cowherd
I got to tell you my Kyle Hamilton story. So I did a podcast with him one time. It's true story. Right before the draft, two general managers texted me and said, I saw you did a Kyle Hamilton podcast. He was at your house. I said, yeah, yeah. They're like, what's he like? And I remember saying, is. Is there, you know, there? He's real confident. Was he cocky? I said, you would think he's 32 years old. I said, all I know, in the back end of my defense, I want intellect and range. I said, a plus, A plus, A plus, A plus. Like, it's just. It's exactly. I just said, I thought I was talking to like, like, you know, like to a slightly younger brother. Like he's a grown up. And it is. I always say this about. I've told my staff this before. I do very few live interviews with kids. My exception is if they play football at Notre Dame. I'll put a 21 year old on. And it's. When I watch you in that tunnel, there's a picture we put on the screen of you in that tunnel. Saturday night game, you're in the tunnel. This is a dorky question, but are there times you're just sitting there in that tunnel thinking, I have the best job in the world. How I look at the picture of this and it gives me goosebumps. You still feel that way?
- [36:46]
Marcus Freeman
Absolutely. A lot of times, man, I'LL turn around and look at them because I go, man, holy cow, Right? And I'm grateful to be on a journey with them. It's like a father that you just want to. Man, you want it for him so bad, you know, you want so badly for your players to have success. And there's moments, man, I'm standing there at the end of that tunnel and going, holy cow, how the heck did this happen, man? But I'm sure as they're grateful that it did, and I'm going to enjoy this thing and give it everything that I have, because if you're not grateful for it, you'll lose it.
- [37:26]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. Marcus Freeman had offers, stayed at Notre Dame. Good for college football sport. I love. Great seeing you.
- [37:33]
Marcus Freeman
Good to see you, man. I appreciate you always. All right.
- [37:36]
Colin Cowherd
Marcus Freeman, what a great coach he is. That picture, honestly, if college football started tomorrow, I'd be fired up. John, you give me that picture of Freeman and the tunnel at Notre Dame. You know, Notre Dame's right around the corner. We got to go to a game this year. We. We. You got to come to Chicago. We'll have a steak on Friday. We'll take the train down to Notre Dame. That place is magic. Send the plane. I don't have one, but if I did, you know, I think. I think Delta Fly is here. I'm pretty sure, you know, you send. If you send it, I'll hop on it. Okay. Man, that just gets me all fired up.
- [38:09]
Marcus Freeman
That is.
- [38:10]
Colin Cowherd
You know, and what's interesting is, look, listen, Jeremiah Love is an insane talent, but just to show you, we had that video of their. Their backup running back. Look at how yoked that guy is. And I mean, for him to say, Jeremiah loves the best athlete I've ever coached, that is. But you look at the backup. I mean, look at this kid. Look, he's a dynamic return guy. Kickoff returns, and he can fly. He is. Look at. I mean, look at the size of this kid's upper body and legs. That works in the NFL?
- [38:42]
Marcus Freeman
Yeah, I'd say so.
- [38:44]
Stacy King
Yeah.
- [38:45]
Colin Cowherd
USC guys just bouncing off him. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Here's some Stacy King TV calls over the years for the Chicago Bulls.
- [39:04]
Stacy King
Stop it. Stop it.
- [39:05]
Colin Cowherd
Do not do them like that. What are you doing?
- [39:08]
Stacy King
Dragons?
- [39:09]
Colin Cowherd
Did you not get the mem.
- [39:17]
Stacy King
Watch the air fro. Watch the air fro.
- [39:19]
Colin Cowherd
Jared Holland.
- [39:22]
Stacy King
Oh, shy. Slam a jamba, baby.
- [39:25]
Colin Cowherd
Carter sets up a screen giddy. Races to the basket, fires it out.
- [39:29]
Stacy King
Vs the shotgun for three. Oh my goodness. Elizabeth. I'm coming again. Elizabeth.
- [39:37]
Colin Cowherd
Oh Lord.
- [39:39]
Stacy King
Oh. Oh. It's a big one, Elizabeth.
- [39:42]
Colin Cowherd
The Kodiak Bulls with that Stacy King is now joining us live. He is very excitable, there's no question about it. Played with Pip and Jordan now doing the Bulls game. So I have been, I'm a Bulls season ticket holder and I can't wait. Oh, wow.
- [39:57]
Stacy King
I didn't know that.
- [39:58]
Colin Cowherd
Yep. So when I moved from LA to Chicago, I said to my wife, I'm like, you know what, man? It's, it's we, we got a place downtown, we got a place in burbs. I'm like, it's 30 minute drive and I want to get it into the vibe of Chicago. I want to invite friends. So we, Bough and I would go to the games, but it was one of those things where I was kind of watching the Celtics or the Lakers. I wasn't watching the Bulls. And my takeaway on the Bulls is I always like Billy Donovan. He's won everywhere, college or pro, and he has good players. But I could never figure out their plan. And I've said this on the air for years, Stacy, if I'm watching a football game, if you're a good coach, I can tell what you're trying to do. I can see your game plan. And I've always felt that with Sam Presti or Brad Stevens. So they get rid of the GM and the basketball ops guy. Let's get to the roster because the Bulls are Rarely terrible. They're 15th, 16th. It just feels like they're. How many players away are they from being a top 5 or 6 or 17? Maybe not OKC, but how many players away are they?
- [41:07]
Stacy King
Well, I mean honestly, you got a good, you got a good start with modest Bou zealous who's turning out to be a very good player. Josh Giddey is a, is a triple double waiting to happen. So those are the two pillars that you have in the organization right now. And I think where the Bulls need to go is build around those guys. You need a good defensive two guard, a two way player. You need a big, a rim protector and you need guys that can help Josh Giddey make shots. Josh Giddey is a pass first point guard. If you watched him play, Kyle, I know you have, he's a distributor. He fans the ball out to everybody. But if he doesn't have the people around him that can make shots and then, you know, this League. You have to have three point shooters, you have to have guys that can make shots. And especially the way Billy Donovan wants to play basketball. They're one of the highest paced teams in the NBA, but the wins are not there to show that. But if you get the right pieces around, you look at Detroit just a couple of years ago, they lost like 28 games in a row. And people were just like, you know, writing them off. They're terrible, they're horrible. And then all of a sudden the next year they're a top five team. And then this year they're the number one team in east. So it can be done. You have to draft well and you have to get the really, the really good quality free agents to help your culture.
- [42:16]
Colin Cowherd
I've said this. Take out the COVID years. Chicago has led the NBA in attendance seemingly forever. I'm new to the city, but why do you think this city is so loyal to basketball? Is it still the remnants of Jordan? I mean, they just. Every time I go to a Bulls game, it's packed. It doesn't matter who it is, it's packed. What is it about this generally in every other city in America? I mean, even when the Yankees stunk in the 80s, nobody went. You know, Yankee Stadium had lots of people not going. What is it about Chicago and the NBA?
- [42:46]
Stacy King
Well, of course, you know, the Jordan years, the six championship years, really established, you know, this franchise and you know, Michael coming back the second time around that got everybody a buzz. This is a great sports city. I mean, they support the, the Bears, the Cubs, the White Sox, the soccer team, the Fire, the Blackhawks, all these organizations have gone through situations where they haven't won. Their fan support is still there. We got some of the best fans in the NBA. I mean, we sell out every single game, no matter what's on the floor. And I think, you know, just after all these firings that, you know, when Michael Roger came out and, you know, they kind of cleaned house a little bit, I think he started understanding how important the fan base is because they deserve a winner. They deserve. Even though there's six banners that hang in the United center, those are not Christmas ornaments. Those are real things that guys bled, cried, they fought for. And the guys before us who came in, the Artist Gilmore's, you know, the Chet Walkers, you know, the Jerry Sloanes, those guys who came in here and paved the way for us, you know, they've got to put a winning product on the floor to give these fans something to cheer for because they've been so loyal to this organization. I mean we travel. We're one of the best teams on the road. You know, we're not even a winning team right now. We travel deep on the road, so. And even overseas. So, you know, we've got to find a way here to, to get the product better. It's going to take some time. And we now I think we understand what direction we need to go. I think before we had one foot in. Should we tank? Should we not tank? And the other side over here, well, let's rebuild. And I think, I think they had a good idea. I think he had a good idea of what he wanted to do. It just didn't formulate the way he wanted to.
- [44:23]
Colin Cowherd
So last year's draft, I mean it's, it's Dylan Harper, Cooper flag, Con Knippel. So I have this theory, Stacy, that the NIL kind of saved college basketball. Nil. Illinois can go and go buy €4. So we're buying 15 to 20 European players minimum a year that was gonna, that used to just stay in Spain or stay in wherever they come and play. And because European kids play against older players, they come into our sport, then they're highly skilled. And then because of Nil, you get guys like Yaxel Lenneborg at Michigan or Zach Eady the year before, they stay in college a year longer. So college basketball is older, stronger, and when the guys get to the NBA, they're more ready to play. You're seeing guys walking in now that are ready to give you 18 points a night. I didn't think Con Knippel would be this good this fast. I thought Cooper was great. I didn't think it'd be this good. So my take because of that, Stacy, is draft picks. For a while, when it was a one and done league, I mean, people were giving up nine picks for Rudy Gobert. Okay, Now I believe the last two, three years, it's back to your era. Draft picks matter a lot. Who could the Bulls maybe get? Is there somebody they could get that you think could be an impact? You watch enough college basketball, you were an all time great. Is there, you've watched all these college players. Is there anybody? I don't mean to put you on the hot seat, but is there anything you see? I mean, Yaxel Lindenborg, there's a guy that's six, nine, runs the floor. What kind of guy immediately do you see?
- [46:05]
Stacy King
Well, it all depends on where they draft. If they get lucky like they did when they got Derrick Rose, when they had like the lowest Chance possible to get him and they end up getting him. You know, I would say the star powers in those top five guys, but I think the Bulls have to be realistic. What if we don't get in the top four drafts and we can't get any? I think the Banz is the real deal. I like his motor. He competes every night. I think, you know, Cam Boozer is a guy that's going to give you 15 years. He's going to be a double, double guy. He's going to help you win. He may not look sexy doing it, but he's going to be part of a winning team with a winning attitude. When you look at Peterson, Peterson has that super up that talent that you just oozes with talent, but you're a little afraid of him because if you were, you know, he was low managing it at 18 years old at the college level and you get to the pros where you're playing 82 games, you're playing four games in five nights, and you're going up against killers at your position every night. You have to show up and be ready to play. So he scares me a little bit, but the talent is undeniable. But Luxembourg, when you watch him in Michigan, like, he reminds you of Draymond Green with offense. Like, he can actually. He can actually control the tempo of the game. He can move the basketball, he plays defense, he rebounds. And he was on a bum ankle in that championship game and he made a huge impact down the stretch that allowed Michigan to win that championship. But there's. This is probably one of the deepest drafts that's been around for a long time. These last two drafts, the Cooper Flag draft. If anybody was supposedly going to tank, these were the two drafts that you really want to do it. But Colin, it's gotten so. It's gotten so big. Now that Nil's in high school, you're seeing kids 7, 7, 8th graders, 6, 10, 6, 11 look like Giannis running around. Duncan Wimby's got a brother coming up. I think in a year or so that's 6, 10, it looks like him and plays like him at 6 foot 10. So there is abundance of talent coming up in the next few years for the NBA.
- [48:01]
Colin Cowherd
Let's talk tanking. You know, it was P.J. carlissimo came on yesterday and he goes, these billionaires are worth $60 billion. You think fining Ryan Smith 500 grand. He doesn't care if he can get. If he can get the kid out of BYU, that's $100 million. Pick. I mean, that could change the valuation of the Jazz from 3 billion to 3.5 billion. Is there a way to. I mean, there's always been a little tanking. It's. I think it's so bad this year because the draft's so good. I don't think it'll be this bad next year. Is there a solve to it?
- [48:37]
Stacy King
Yeah, I do. I said, I said I came up with a plan on my podcast where I said, you know, don't even do the in season tournament anymore. Just go ahead and play out your regular season. At the end of the year, the worst teams in the league based off of records, that's, that's the seating that they play in. They would play it, they would play into the season tournament the last, say 15, 20 games of the season, maybe less, however they designed it. But the teams that are going to be in the lottery, they. From that point on, from the last 20 games, the team with the best record gets the number one seed, second best team. Boom, boom, boom. And you make teams earn, you make teams earn the right to get the number one pick. So if Washington wants the number one pick, they got to play their players all, all season long to be in position to be, to have the record, to be getting to that position. And then you put these teams in that end of the season, the last 15 games of the season, you know, it gives their fan base something to get excited about. It gives them something to really, they, if they want AJ Debanza, you got to go earn them. You got to go get him. If you, if you want Cam Boozer, you better finish in that top three or top four. And it makes it very competitive and it keeps the integrity of the game, I think, in check. And I think, I think that's probably about the fairest way you can do it. I would like to see it do it that way because you have to earn the number one pick. Instead of going to the ping pong balls and all that other stuff, make those teams. If you know ahead of time, you have to know who's going to be in that, in that situation. Like you just put up the screen, those teams right there, the last 20 games of the season, best team in the last 20. And then here's the thing, Colin, it doesn't matter if you got to play Denver, you got to play the best teams during that point. It doesn't matter. You got to get out there and earn it.
- [50:17]
Colin Cowherd
That's great. That's okay. I saw this. NBA players can be a little petty. So The Athletic did a player poll on mvp. Wimby was fifth. And I'm like, they don't want to give it to Wemby because they know they're going to have to. He's going to win eight of them. That's what it feels like. So I don't have a. I would vote for Wemby because of his influence, but I don't have a problem if SGA wins it. I was not a big Luca fan. I don't think he gives you enough effort on the defensive side. It drives me crazy. If you had to vote MVP and you see these guys every night, who do you. Is now the words valuable? Who's the most valuable player in this league?
- [50:59]
Stacy King
Well, I mean, Jokic, Wimby and SGA are the top three, but if you took Wimby off that team, the spurs are back to being a lottery team. They win some games, but I still think they'd be a lottery team. You take Jokic off of Denver, they're close to being a lottery team. They win some games because you still got Murray, you know, you still got Aaron Gordon. They would win some games. They might be a fringe team. They have to play in the. Play in or something. But if you take SGA off and as great as he is, and I respect his game completely, but you take him off that team, they're still going to be a playoff team. They may not be a number one seed because they're so deep and they're so talented that, you know, you got Williams there. I mean, you got Chet there. You got so many guys. You know, Casey Wallace is an underrated player, in my opinion. He. He would go somewhere else and be a star somewhere else, but he plays a great role in Oklahoma City. But I think Oklahoma City would still be a top 16 even without Shay being there. Yeah, well, that shows you the other two are so valuable to their franchises that if you took them off, you know, one maybe not make the playoffs because, you know, San Antonio's young, Dylan Harper, all those guys are still young. And then Oklahoma City, I mean, Denver, you still have some veteran players that would keep you up and keep you leashed in the playoff hunt. But you take Wimby off the Spurs, I don't know if they make the playoffs.
- [52:17]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, the, you know, all the years you were with the Bulls, I mean, it just. You played for the greatest North America, arguably the greatest North American sports team of all time. I remember going covering a series, I think it was against Orlando, and Jordan had his own locker room he had so many media people, he had his own locker room. The. I mean, I'm sure it was like the craziest thing in the world to play with a Jordan and a Scottie Pippen. When you watch the Last Dance when you were watching that stuff, and for me, it was so much behind the scenes footage. Was there anything in the Last Dance you watched and that made you laugh or made you cringe and you're like, oh my God, it wasn't as much fun as everybody, you know, I mean, because it's easy when you're on top of the world. You think it's all great. But you tell me as when you watched Last Dance, what was. How did you reflect?
- [53:14]
Stacy King
Well, I thought it was pretty accurate because, you know, we were in the first dance, the first three, so. And Michael was in. Michael was at his highest at that point. You know, he was just now, you know, winning championships. He was at his highest level. He came back from baseball and he was still Michael Jordan. But he wasn't the same like as far as like he started posting up more. He started shooting more mid range shots and taking more threes in the first and he didn't dunk as much. If you go back to remember he did, he still dunk, but he wasn't dunking like he was doing in that first three. Right. The thing I took away from it is, is that, you know, you know, Scotty kind of, Scotty kind of got a bad rap in that per se. You know, I think all our teammates have all agreed on that.
- [53:55]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [53:56]
Stacy King
That his frail in. That was a little bit too harsh because you take, you take Scottie Pippen off that team, I don't care what anybody says, we don't win, they don't win six championships. We just don't. We might win a couple, we might win a couple, but we don't. With Michael as great as he was, he needed Scotty and Scotty needed Michael. And so they both are hand in hand, you know, salt and pepper, you know, peanut butter and jelly. You had to have both. One without the other is just not as good.
- [54:24]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. You know, you can always brag that you were on the really good three peat team.
- [54:29]
Stacy King
Yeah, it was like rock stars. Colin. I mean, it's funny when I go into a city with this, with this current Bulls team, you know, they may have like, you know, 10 people out there asking for autographs or signed cards and stuff. You know, we come into like Utah and there'd be like 800, 900 people waiting for you to come in at 2 in the morning, you know, and that was back when you didn't travel with security. These guys got, you know, they got, you know, security with them now. We didn't have security. Like we walk in a hotel, people, you know, back then, you didn't have to stay in a hotel. You could actually go into the lobby and wait for us to come in. And you come in there, it's like you won a championship or something. It's like game 30. And there's so many people in there. I mean, I've seen. I've seen a lady at Madison Square Garden. We're trying to get out to get to the next city. And a lady lays in the front of the bus just to get Michael to take a picture. And she refused to get up off the ground. She said, you can run me over unless I get a picture with Michael. And then feels like, Michael, come out and get this lady a picture when we get out of here, you know. So N.J. went out to give her a picture. I see some crazy stuff, man. I should write a book too, because you know how it is being an ex player. You know, what goes on in the locker room stays in the locker room.
- [55:34]
Colin Cowherd
Right?
- [55:35]
Stacy King
But we all have great stories. But, you know, being with MJ is a totally different, you know, totally different animal, man. I mean, these guys who are superstars now, they. They deserve all the attention they get. But when you went into a Bulls locker room and you've been in there before, I mean, there's hundreds, hundreds of reporters from all over the country, all over the world in there. You. You go in a Bulls locker room now, there might be like seven reporters.
- [56:00]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. No, it's just. You're just part of something great. You're just part of something absolutely amazing. Stacy King, that's great seeing you about. We gotta talk more off. And by the way, next time I'm at the United Center, I'll stop by.
- [56:14]
Stacy King
Well, now that I know you in Chicago, almost definitely.
- [56:17]
Colin Cowherd
All right. Great seeing you, man.
- [56:20]
Stacy King
All right, buddy. Take it easy.
- [56:21]
Colin Cowherd
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