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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
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- [02:41]
Doug Gottlieb
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Sports Radio.
- [02:49]
Ben McCollum
What up?
- [02:50]
Doug Gottlieb
Welcome in this Is the Herd. Wherever you may Be. And however you may be making this part of your day, thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd on an absolutely spectacular Friday in Southern California. Absolutely spectacular Friday in Southern California. Welcome in. Had a great time hosting with Du Bois, being back in town for a couple of days. Full disclosure, I had a full day yesterday. Full day yesterday. I don't know if I shared this with you, Greg and Ryan, and Ryan part of the production crew. So yesterday's show, and then it's my work. It's like our celebration week for my son's 16th birthday. So we have a. We normally do it when we lived in Southern California on the Jewish holidays because he went to a small private school. And we'd go to Six Flags during, you know, one of the high holidays and ride all the roller coasters and just have a great time. We did it yesterday instead. And then all the while, right, you got your, your cell phones handy. We're watching the March Madness games, then the drive home. We're watching Kansas and Arkansas. And then you watch all the games at the end as well. Right? Great thing about west coast time is they were all wrapped up and you're, you're good. You're like, okay, I saw Michigan hold off UC San Diego and shut it down, go to bed, wake up this morning. Oh, yeah, by the way, we'll get to Bronnie James, his best offensive performance as a pro in the NBA last night. Full day. Full day. It's a good day. Good day. But I was, we were watching Arkansas and Kansas and I got, I got a text from a friend who was like, ah, Bill Self. Bill Self. This thing might have passed him by. I don't know if I was laughing or crying on the, on the inside at that text. So you mean to tell me that a coach who just four years ago won a national championship and had a run of, what was it, 12 consecutive Big 12 titles, the game has passed him by after signing a new contract with the Jayhawks over the offseason. Or there's a different way to look at it. Look, it was a, it wasn't a well played game. It was an ugly game. Self lost one of his best players to what appears to be an Achilles injury. But I was watching Kansas play and I was identifying, you know, their players and what was going right, what was going wrong. And like, look, I make no mistake about it. I have a ton to learn. Anybody can learn watching the best of the best of the best. You know, they mix and match with a 2, 3 zone, there's a little triangle in 2. It really confused Arkansas. And Arkansas just survived, really. It was because Kansas just turned the ball over so much. And the things that when you games or lose you games are, you know, turnovers, basically, defense, turnovers and rebounding. And look at that game and, and Kansas had 16 turnovers, had one less offensive rebound and, and only shot out, shot them from the free throw line. But, you know, Arkansas took 65 shots, they took 58, and they lose the game by seven points. KJ Adams hurts his Achilles tendon. But then I was, I was, I was watching their lineups and I was like, okay. Hunter Dickinson played four years at Michigan. Zeke Mayo just transferred in from South Dakota State. Rylan Griffin transferred in from Alabama. AJ Storr, who probably played his best game as a Jayhawk last night, he transfers in from Wisconsin. David Coit had transferred in from Northern Illinois. And it didn't stun me, but there was an aha moment, right? And obviously John Calperi's in his first year at Arkansas, and his team will look wildly different next year as he brought over several players, kept a couple from Arkansas last year, and then brought over players, you know, John L. Davis, who was at Florida Atlantic, D.J. wagner, who was one of the players that came over along with Big Z from Kentucky. And I thought to myself, hold on, this is a different sport than the one both of these two men have coached in before. I actually think Bill Self is like the perfect example. The guy's the best of the best of the best. And you could say the same thing, honestly, about John Calipari. Different ways of doing the same thing and same thing meaning being a Hall of Fame coach. Both are in the hall of Fame, both have won national titles, and Bill's won two of them. Two of them. And you look at how they went about their business, right? John Calipari, you know, evolved from what he was at UMass, then the NBA, and of course, when he was at Kentucky, it was one and dones. And he would go and hand pick the best five freshmen that he could get. And more often than not, it would hit. And whether they got to the Final Four or one year, one national championship, or were constantly competitive at the very top of the sport, he became the signature of the one and done era. Now, truth be told that even when they won the national championship, one of the, one of the strengths of that team was some of the veteran players. But he picked off the top of the deck. Bill Selv a little bit different at Kansas, right? They had guys that you would call program guys, guys that improved over time. A Darnell Robinson, for example, would start their career at one thing and play four or five years and evolve, become really good. All Big 12 caliber players. And he would sprinkle in one or maybe two one and dones and then have a couple that were pros and maybe take one transfer. And again, I don't think that it's just Covid or just nil or just the transfer portal or just the fact it's not just the transfer portal, it's the fact you can transfer without repercussion transfer and not sit out. But those three things have changed their business dramatically. And it's hard to adjust. Hard to adjust. My mom is, let's just say she's in her late 70s and we go out to dinner the other night and she's had a problem with her phone. She hands it to my son, she's like, I've had this problem for a month. It won't do something. My son presses two buttons, problem solved. Because he grew up, frankly, too much with a phone in his hand. My mom still has a landline. How many of you have a landline? And the point is that here's the things that have changed. It started with the G League Ignite, where players could go straight to the G league for a year, get paid, and then go presumably to the NBA. Did it all work out great? Did a bunch of guys go? No, but it was a couple of year. Then there was overtime elite, which has since expanded. But did it all was. Did it take 20, 30 guys? No, but there were two or three that mattered. A couple of went to Australia. One a year maybe would go to Australia and for John Calipari, the pool and frankly for Bill Self, the pool of those one and dones on a given year that can really impact a program was between 5 and 15 and 15 is probably too much. Really. It's 2 or 3 and 10. And when you take just a couple of them out there out of it and then you factor in that, you know, one would go to ote, one would, one would go overseas, one or two would go the G league night. Now all of a sudden that pool started to shrink. Then you factor in that there are players. Kevin Durant, D'Angelo Russell are perfect examples of guys that, you know, could have gone to Kentucky and been a part of that one and done era, but instead chose to have their own path. And you're fighting Duke for these one and dones and now all of a sudden, instead of getting the best five players in the country, you might get one of the five best or one of the. And then you strike up a lean year and it's hard. Then you go to Covid. And how did Covid affect college basketball, by the way? Bill Self had a team that during COVID could have won a national championship. They were dominant. Covid canceled that tournament. But if, if you go to Covid, that extended to where now you're playing against guys that have a Covid year. I don't know how many people are listening to the Herd know this, but if you. Not only do you have a Covid year, that given that's the super seniors you're seeing play college basketball this year, fifth and sixth year seniors, sometimes seventh years. But now there's a recent ruling that if you play junior college basketball or any NAIA basketball during any of those last four years, this is after the COVID year, that year doesn't count and you get another year. So I don't care how good you are. With the exception maybe of Cooper Flagg, like he's a unicorn. He's a generational player. Outside of that, all of these other freshmen, you're 18, 19, and look, a lot of freshmen are 20 years old. A lot of seniors are 23, 24, 25 years old. Stephen Ashworth is played they Creighton beat Louisville last night. Now again, part of it is he's a Mormon. He went on a mission. But part of it is he also existed during the COVID year. He's 25 years old with a wife and a kid playing college basketball. So if you're somebody who's always played freshman, what am I going to. This is a completely different landscape, a completely different sport. Then post Covid you have the transfer portal and no. And you can transfer without ramification. You don't have to sit out. So everything you built in terms of your culture and that's what Kansas always built on their culture come in. You're part of KU's program. They've had transfers before, but they've never played four transfers at once. And again, it doesn't mean that transfers bad. How is it transferred? And I didn't sit out at my school. I went sat out at a junior college. But when you have a team full of them and that's not how you've always coached and coaching a transfer that's played multiple years at another school, that's. Here's the easiest analogy I give you. Go over to a Get ready to Watch the games today, Go over to a buddy's house, have him hand you the remote and say, how about it? And you're a Spectrum guy and he's got DirecTV. And you're like, whoa, wait, what? He's got Sonos and DirecTV and he's got one universal remote. And you would look at that thing and it's not your same universal remote you got. That's what it's like to coach somebody who's, who's played college basketball has succeeded in college basketball at a different level, a different school. David Coit was at Northern Illinois and a star. Zeke Mayo was a star at South Dakota State. But now you have to completely change roles and you've played for somebody else and there's different verbiage and different ways of doing things. And again, you have a coach who's used to coaching people a certain way, and now he's coaching you that same way, only you've been coached and programmed by somebody else. And then you factor in nil into the whole thing where, if we're honest with ourselves, there were schools that were compensating student athletes above that of, of, of. Of your normal grant Nate room, board, tuition and fees. Now everybody can. So everybody can go and find players and pay them to stay or pay them to transfer, or you can go get an overseas player whose older experience played professional basketball and can go and compete against your college player. I don't know if you want to use this as if this is an appropriate analogy, but Monday I took my son to see Black Bag. Black Bag is a new Stephen Sudden height movie. And Black Bag, by the way, if you like short movies, it's like 80, 85 minutes long. It's great and it's really good. We're sitting in the movie theater. It's like a private showing. It's me and my son, nobody else. And I'm thinking to myself, this is a. Is a really good movie. It was short, it was interesting. It's kind of a spy flick. It's, it's, it's good. I would. Rotten Tomatoes. It was like in the 90, like 97% rotten tomatoes. But who goes to movies anymore? Here's a guy who's made some of the best, most clever movies in the last 25 years. And I have no idea what it made opening box. And of course it opens in March, which means they didn't think that it was going to do. Do huge numbers. But I guarantee you've seen Landman more than you've ever heard of. Black back right, because the same people that are making the same shows in the same movies, they're getting left behind because their business, their industry has changed. And whether it's changed because of COVID or changed because of our viewing habits, which were only sped up by Covid, whatever it is, it's a different sport than it ever used to be. I'm watching John Calipari come from behind and take down Kansas. Two hall of Fame coaches, two well invested programs, and two guys who are coaching similarly, if not the same, to how they've always coached. And it has worked and it will work. But the business of the sport has changed. Yes, Arkansas won. Yes, Kansas mix. It just. I don't know what happened within the chemistry of that squad that caused them to look so dysfunctional, but the game has passed anybody by. It's just changed so quickly that you have to level up or level over or otherwise you're leveling home. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin this is the hurt fox Sports Radio iHeartradio app. We talked Bronnie a little bit at the end of the show yesterday. You see what he did last night? We'll discuss next in the Herd.
- [18:30]
Colin Cowherd
Be sure to catch live editions of.
- [18:31]
Doug Gottlieb
The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.
- [18:39]
Colin Cowherd
This one's for the food obsessed, for the phone eats first person, for the influencer who knows about a new spot before it's poppin. And for the person who's all in on dining out. With Amex Gold, you can earn four times points at restaurants up to $50,000 and up to $100 back annually in statement credits on eligible purchases at US resi restaurants so you can get rewarded for eating what you love. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Cap applies. Learn more@american express.com With AmEx, you can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile Keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com Keep and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months. Introducing Instagram Teen accounts.
- [19:47]
Doug Gottlieb
A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.
- [19:51]
Ben McCollum
All right Buck.
- [19:53]
Colin Cowherd
Good job.
- [19:53]
Doug Gottlieb
New Instagram teen accounts, automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.
- [19:59]
Colin Cowherd
Hi, everybody. This message is brought to you by the official Whiskey of the Herd with Colin Coward podcast, Green River Whiskey. As you know, we've been having some fun getting to know Green River Whiskey. Let me tell you, there's a ton of incredible stories to be told in its 140 year history. How's this? For example, Green River Whiskey was once the most advertised whiskey in the world, but just now they've launched their first advertising campaign in more than 100 years. You see, it seems the team from Green river in reviving the whiskey have accidentally also revived its resident ghost. And he's quite a character, spending his days reminding us to keep it simple, focus on the quality and have a little fun along the way. So if you want to see the ghost of Green river come to Life, check out greenriverwhiskey on their YouTube channel or head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's to green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. Product of Green River Distilling Company, Owensboro, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly.
- [20:56]
Doug Gottlieb
Doug Alibin for Colin. This is the Herd. Fox Sports Radio iheartradio Grant McCaslin set to join us upcoming. He's the head coach of Texas Tech. The Raiders only four point lead at halftime, but then they end up winning by 10 against UNC Wilmington. We'll talk with Texas Techs second year, second year head coach Grant McCaslin who former Baylor assistant, former head coach at North Texas. We'll get, we'll get Grant in here in a moment. In the meantime, let's give him like a little credit here to Bronny James had finally had an NBA game where you're like, all right, that, that tape looks like an NBA player now to people who are like, oh God, leap. And your face. And your face. Bronnie. Awesome, right? 17 points, 7 of 10 from the field, 5 assists, 3 rebounds, 2 of 4 from 3. Yeah, he had four turnovers. But you know, Bronnie was awesome last night playing a, a career high 29 minutes. Yeah, I mean he shot the ball well. He looked for the first time like an NBA player. And it's like the number one thing you need in life, the number one thing you need in sports is confidence and his ability to maintain and even grow his confidence through. Look, he has not had, not shot the ball well at all until recently in the G league, right percentages were 30s and 20s from field and 3. Now it's 40s and 30s and obviously in limited minutes had shot the ball very poorly with the Lakers and just look lost, right? Look lost, looked overwhelmed, looked like. I don't think he's got it. So fair assessment last night. It's some shots. It's also fair if we're going to be the voice of actually reasonable and I understand that. I operate in a world of sports radio and sports television where you have to have unreasonable, polar opposite takes. He can either be awesome or, or can't play and there's nothing in between. You're either LeBron or you're Jordan. You can't go, eh, they're different. I prefer Jordan but I respect that because you can and you can never throw like, you know, I, I mean it's prime. I think I might take Magic or Bird, you know, or you know, some would say Kobe. I wouldn't. But some would say Kobe or Tim Duncan or you know, you have all these others that we have seen play. We're not allowed to do that. Well, I get to host the Herd and I get my own show, the Doug Gottlieb show on Fox Sports Radio. So I'm going to do that because the reality is he was a minus 36. They did get smoked. They threw out essentially a G league roster and the only other, you know, Laker to do anything was Dalton Connect who, you know, with the Lakers is now based upon their roster now is probably out of the rotation or, or barely hanging on the rotation as he's a rookie who they want to develop. Here's JJ Redick talking about Bronnie after the game.
- [24:00]
Ben McCollum
You know, we've obviously monitored him in the G and feel like he's, you know, in those sort of end game situations when he's gotten a chance to play with us. He's been, he's been really good. So not surprised by tonight. I think his, his confidence is growing.
- [24:22]
Doug Gottlieb
His.
- [24:22]
Ben McCollum
You, you mentioned the word comfort. That's that' there for him. And I think the next step is just, you know, becoming like a, like an elite conditioned athlete because when he does that with his physical tools and just his like burst and his handle and you know, we think he's going to be an above average to really good NBA shooter.
- [24:54]
Doug Gottlieb
Okay, there's, there's actually a lot to kind of digest there. Okay. Can I tell you what I heard in the coach's ear and trying to read now? Some of it is he hadn't. I actually don't buy the. He's been really good with us. He has not. Second lowest field goal percentage in the NBA. You know, you're talking about four minutes, two minutes. He played 16 minutes of Denver in a blowout, you know, you know, barely played and hasn't looked the part. I don't think anybody would agree with that. And it's hard to do anything in four minutes or two minutes. Anyway, again, if we're being fair, when he said he needs to be an elite conditioned athlete, that was a little bit of a. I don't want to say shot, but that wasn't a positive note from your head coach. That wasn't a positive note from your head coach if you said he needs to be an elite. Because, remember, it's all about wording. JJ has. Knows he has to. Knows he has to be measured in his wording because it's pretty obvious. I don't know, guys, if we've talked about this, I have a friend who's worked for President Trump in the first administration. And if you notice how people who work for him or want to work with him, they either bow at the altar or he tries to crucify them, Right? And the expression they had in the White House, it's a real thing, is you're either at the table or you're on the menu. I love that. You're either at the table or you're on the menu. And honestly, that's how LeBron treats people. You're either at the table, you're on the menu, you're either all in. LeBron's the greatest, and Bronnie's gonna be awesome, or you're on the menu. And he may tweet at you, he may call you out or call you over in the middle, in the middle of a competitive basketball game. So JJ has to be measured with everything he says, because LeBron's got rabbit ears, especially about his kid. We all kind of do. And when he says he needs to be an elite condition athlete, that. Here's the translation, right? If you do the coaching translation, Bronnie's not in shape. Bronnie's not in shape. So the issue with the idea that he'll become an above average to an elite shooter is you can't show me anywhere so far in his life that that has been the case. Again, my issue with Bronny James, in terms of the evaluation of Bronny James, has been every NBA player that has been or every future NBA player I've seen outside of a couple that are truly Late bloomers, right? There are some guys that are really late. They grew late in high school, grew in college or whatever. But if you say, hey, here's a McDonald's All American, you can pick apart, you know, 10 high school games in their senior year where they were the best player in the court by a mile, you're like, well, that's a pro. You know, that's a pro. I can't mention the school by name, but there's a school in Wisconsin that I believe is the number one ranked school and they play the state playoffs or tonight in Madison. And I went to see them play against another school. They're both in Milwaukee. And there's a sophomore who's 6 foot 9 and you're like, that's a problem. And so my issue with Bronnie was like, there's never been a moment where he's been an elite, elite shooter. So why would we think he, why we put that expectation that he'll be an above average to great shooter in the NBA when that's never happened before. The part I do agree with is he's getting more comfortable, he's getting confident. And you're not going to achieve anything if you're not confident. Last night was the first night Bronny James looked like an NBA player. His confidence is still there. That's something outstanding considering how oft discussed his game is, despite the fact he plays like two minutes a game for the Lakers. But let's not get it twisted. He was a minus 36. It was a blowout, and his own coach said he's got to get into better shape.
- [29:24]
Colin Cowherd
Be sure to catch live editions of.
- [29:26]
Doug Gottlieb
The Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.
- [29:29]
Colin Cowherd
Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Ko Vino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich With AMEX Gold, you get up to $100 back annually on eligible purchases at resi restaurants.
- [30:32]
Doug Gottlieb
So party of two right this way.
- [30:33]
Colin Cowherd
Is music to your ears. That's the powerful backing of American Express enrollment Required terms apply. Learn more@american express.com With AmEx, you can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com Keep and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card has no cash access and expires in six months. Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts A new way.
- [31:21]
Doug Gottlieb
To keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.
- [31:26]
Ben McCollum
All right, sweetie pie, buckle up.
- [31:28]
Colin Cowherd
Good job.
- [31:29]
Doug Gottlieb
Or ring the bell on their bike. Okay, kid, give it a try.
- [31:33]
Colin Cowherd
Nice.
- [31:34]
Doug Gottlieb
Or remember their elbow pads.
- [31:36]
Ben McCollum
Knees too.
- [31:37]
Colin Cowherd
Okay.
- [31:38]
Doug Gottlieb
Yep, there you go. New Instagram Teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.
- [31:47]
Colin Cowherd
Hi everybody. This message is brought to you by the official Whiskey of the Herd with Colin Coward podcast, Green River Whiskey. As you know, we've been having some fun getting to know Green River Whiskey, and let me tell you, there's a ton of incredible stories to be told in its 140 year history. How's this? For example, Green River Whiskey was once the most advertised whiskey in the world, but just now they've launched their first advertising campaign in more than 100 years. You see, it seems the team from Green river in reviving the whiskey have accidentally also revived its resident ghost. And he's quite a character, spending his days reminding us to keep it simple, focus on the quality, and have a little fun along the way. So if you want to see the ghost of Green river come to Life, check out GreenRiver Whiskey on their YouTube channel or head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's to Green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. Product of Green River Distilling Co. Owensboro, KY. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly.
- [32:45]
Doug Gottlieb
What up? Welcome in. This is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be making part of your day, thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd. It's the second day of the NCAA tournament. You know, it may be decision day for Aaron Rodgers. We're getting closer and closer to the rest of Major League Baseball season getting underway and hopefully where you are. It's as nice as the weather where I am because spring has arrived and wow, is it, is it nice? I know we had that midweek little mini blizzard running through the northern Midwest outside of that. Some, some nice weather along the way. Welcome in and thanks so much for, for joining me. Colin is back on Monday. There are some similarities to Aaron Rodgers, as you just heard from Dan Beyer who works on with me on my show, the Doug Gottlieb show, which broadcasts daily, 3 to 5 Eastern, 12, 2 Pacific Fox Sports Radio iHeartRadio app. Dan reported that or said the report is out that Aaron Rodgers is visiting the Pittsburgh Steelers facility. And it's kind of interesting, right? In college basketball, the portal opens on Monday. And what, and I don't know how many of you know this, but now there are lots of players that thought going into the season like this is it, this is my last year, I'm done. I mean there are six year seniors, seventh year seniors, whatever, like I'm done. And then there was a ruling with a, the quarterback of Vanderbilt who went to junior college. And I believe one of the years in junior college they didn't have a season because of COVID whatever. Anyway, he got an extra year. So now there's a blanket ruling where if you played junior college or NAIA basketball, you get an extra year. So there are lots of guys who like that. They were, they were done. They're like, hey, you know what, I might go do this again and they'll like Aaron Rodgers, go and have a visit and, and maybe, you know, they won't sign with the Pittsburgh Steelers, but they'll sign with your team. I bring it up because our next guest is the head coach of the Drake Bulldogs. He won four national championships at the Division 2 level. And I think in the summer his, one of his star shooters, Mitch Mascari, was going into the private sector like he was going to go work for a living. And well, let's just let Coach McCollum tell the story. The Drake Bulldogs win the Missouri Valley regular season, win their conference tournament championship. They're 31 and three. Then they take down Missouri yesterday. Now they get ready to take on Texas Tech Grant McCaslin, who ironically told us just last hour, they scrimmage Drake in the secret scrimmage earlier this year. And now they play each other in the second round, the NCAA tournament. And Coach McCollum joins us on Fox Sports Radio. Ben, how are you? I'm great.
- [35:46]
Ben McCollum
How about yourself, Doug?
- [35:48]
Doug Gottlieb
Not as. Not as good as you. Not with. Not with your team. Okay, so help tell this story here. Right? You get the Drake job, and Mascari was already working or was going to go work. What happened?
- [36:01]
Ben McCollum
Yeah, he was gonna go work. You know, I got the Drake job, and I obviously had three coming with, and I thought Mitch was done. And he had a really good financial job in Chicago. He never ended up starting it, though. But he was going to start it, you know, within the next couple months of graduation from Northwest Missouri State. And the last day, he put his name in the portal, and I think he just did it, you know, just kind of making sure that, you know, if he wanted to, he could. He could play again. And I was like, what? He was thinking, so I called him, like, well, do you want to play? He's like, I don't know. I was just kind of thinking about it, so, well, if you want to do that, let's just do it here, and said, okay. And so he thought about it for a while, and then eventually just, you know, decided, hey, this is something that I want to do. It was a tough. It was a tough decision for him because I couldn't give him a lot of advice because I knew I had something to gain from it. And so, you know, when kids trust you with advice and you have something to gain in the process, you know, you just can't really, you know, say you should do this, but he should do it. And obviously he ended up doing it, which has been great.
- [37:16]
Doug Gottlieb
What's it like to take this group and so many of them. You mentioned you had three now, four coming with from the Division 2 level. What's it like to go through this where everybody falls back on the story? Hey, they're Division 2 guys. When you take them down. Going back to the preseason, when you went in Charleston, you beat K State, you beat Vandy. What is. What is that like for you when. When you have a group of guys that you've been with at the Division 2 level to play so well at this level?
- [37:49]
Ben McCollum
You know, it's been a blast you know, I think the thing for me in particular, when you take this job, it is a lonely feeling when you take over a job at this level and you don't have a lot of players. Like, it's very lonely. And when you're able to take three or four of your guys, four of your guys with you and show up day one, and at least, you know, you've got guys that are, you know, essentially in your foxhole, right? And guys that are going to fight for what the program means and fight for your culture and fight for the effort and that sort of thing. And so it was a big deal to get them, obviously. It was a big deal to get everybody, though. And a lot of those guys came on just blind faith, you know, where it's like, they didn't have to come to Drake for an unproven at Division one, Division two guy. And. And they did. And so obviously it became, you know, everybody together, everybody connected, and it was fun.
- [38:56]
Doug Gottlieb
Sturts. You know, we. When we prepared for you guys, we were like, holy cow, this is the best guy we've seen all year. And granted, we're the Verizon League, but we. We played Oklahoma State, we played Ohio State, we played Providence. And I mean, he's a special player. When did you first see Sturt's play? In high school, when he was a junior.
- [39:20]
Ben McCollum
When he was a junior, we. He made the state championship, I believe, and lost in the state title game. And no one really was recruiting him at the Division 1 level, and I didn't understand why. So then we chose to recruit him at the Division 2 level. And I thought at that point, I'm like, this kid is no brainer mid major. You know, we're going to steal another one. You know, obviously now he's probably, you know, fringe NBA. And I think eventually he's probably going to be an NBA player. You know, when it's all said and done, he just had such a good demeanor. He's an elite pastor. He's an unselfish person. He's an unselfish player, you know, and he listens and wants to be good. He just. He just gets it. And so it certainly helps that he's on our team. And, you know, it also helps that we coached him for two years. You know, I coached him for two seasons prior. And so that. That really benefited us as well.
- [40:18]
Doug Gottlieb
No, no doubt. Was there any special hitch in his giddy up because it was Missouri? No, not.
- [40:27]
Ben McCollum
Not really. I think Kansas State. It was. I think it was just the NCAA tournament. Was probably. He was excited about. Because, you know, to be quite honest, it's like the, you know, I had another guard, Trevor Hudgins for a while. Well, you know, like. And everybody's like, well, why didn't K State offer him? Why didn't. Because, because he wasn't good enough for K State right away.
- [40:45]
Doug Gottlieb
Right, right.
- [40:46]
Ben McCollum
That's why they didn't.
- [40:47]
Doug Gottlieb
Right. If you, if you saw him when he was 16, you would have said he's not, not good enough. You know, I, I had that. Yeah. I don't, I don't, like, I don't know if I can, I can't say obviously guys names, whatever. I don't know. In Portal. Not in Portal. But yeah, we, we played against a, a guy this year who lit us up at the Division 2 level and they were, you know, after the game, like, why didn't you offer him? Like, well, I wasn't here and when I got here, he wasn't in the portals. Like, I don't know. Like, we do ask things of people which are it. Which are unfair. Do you. Does. I think everyone knows that if you can coach at the Division 2 level, you can coach Division 1 level. Bruce Pearls proved that. You proved that others have as well. Does this change in your mind the perception of recruiting Division 2 players to transfer up the Division 1 level?
- [41:34]
Ben McCollum
No, it probably does, but that's because people don't think for themselves times. You know, I mean, it's like, oh, D2 players are great. Let's everybody go get 25 D2 players. Because there's a recency bias already to it. And so, I don't know, like, I think too often, you know, in college coaching and even hiring coaches and stuff like that, there becomes a, a bias to, you know, all of a sudden because a D2 guy has success, every D2 guy can have success. And that's just not, that's just not the case. Or you know, if you, you know, an NAI guy can be. Just get. A juco guy can be just as good. And same concept for players. Like, just because some Division 2 guys have success doesn't necessarily mean that every D2 guy is going to have success, but it does mean that you can find good players anywhere and you just kind of have to trust your own eye on some of those things. And, and, and, and in today's society, society, it's, it's a lot more difficult to trust your own eye just because social media and all those different things that are like, you know, even when, when we took this job. And, you know, there's probably 50, 50 split where, you know, 50 of fans would be like, and I, I can't wait to watch these guys. I think they'll be great. And then there's another 50 that was like, I can't believe they're taking D2 guys. And, and they're going to be awful. And so you just can't listen to that noise. You just got to trust yourself. And that's, that's what we did. And, you know, we got a little lucky, too. You know, where just those guys showed up and competed. And it was a heck of a run and still continues to be that.
- [43:09]
Doug Gottlieb
Ben McCollum Head Coach, Drake the Bulldogs are 31 and 3 and they take on Texas Tech, the Red Raiders, who they faced in a secret scrimmage. How much can you take from the sacred scrimmage in getting ready for a second round NCAA tournament game?
- [43:25]
Ben McCollum
Man, I don't know. I don't know because they're, I mean, they're just so well coached, you know, I just think they're, you know, they've got, obviously hired one of my other. He's got, he's got Grant, who's one of my close friends. He's got Linder, who I talk to about every day. He's got Luke, who actually played for me, Luke Barnwell, the Toki Morikobu, who's AC Who's. So it's like their whole staff is really close to me. And so I'm not sure how much you can take from that. You know, I don't think either of us really totally prepared for it, if that makes sense. Meaning, you know, those scrimmages, it's better that I think a lot of people try to win those scrimmages. Obviously, you always want to win everything you do, but more importantly, you want to, you want to see what works, see what lineups work. And so I'm not sure how much you can actually take from that scrimmage.
- [44:20]
Doug Gottlieb
Yes, I wish you would have told me that I tried to win my scrimmage and then I was like, at the end of it, I was like, why did I try to win my scrimmage? Well, I was trying to show, you know, a group of young guys, build them confidence in what we are doing and have one more point than an opponent. But again, these are just learning lessons that you only learn by doing. Ben McCollum joining us, who is the Drake head coach. Okay, so you went from turning down lots of jobs that didn't fit. Why Did Drake fit?
- [44:52]
Ben McCollum
A couple reasons. One, I really liked the athletic director, Brian Harden. I thought he had a good vision for the program. Two, it was, you know, close to home. I'm probably, you know, a Midwest guy. Doesn't mean I, you know, would never live in any other place in the country. But, you know, initially, just that first jump, I wanted to make sure that it was also beneficial for my family to get closer to family. And then, you know, it was just the right time. You know, I started to notice that. I started to notice that I was. I wasn't choosing to come back to Northwest. I was choosing to not take jobs. And I think when you start to. To trend that direction, I think that probably gives you the indication that it's probably time to come out of your comfort zone a little bit and, you know, just see what you could do.
- [45:44]
Doug Gottlieb
And.
- [45:45]
Ben McCollum
And then, you know, they were super patient in the process. Drake was. You know, I think that a lot of these schools, when they hire, which I understand, you know, they. They offer you the job the next day, you got to decide. And. And it's not really the nature of me. And so it's my greatest strength and greatest weakness is my patience. But, you know, sometimes it's just. It is what it is, and this one just worked out perfect. And, you know, I. I got put in a good position and. And very thankful for it.
- [46:17]
Doug Gottlieb
Okay, so with that, though, now comes added speculation. There's other jobs available. How do you handle that? Right. Will Wade is like, hey, I'm taking NC State. Like, that's. That's happening. And people are like, whoa, wait, that's. That's weird. How are you handling the now speculation about what could be next for you?
- [46:34]
Ben McCollum
Yeah, you know, the same way I've done it for years. I really try not to. My personality doesn't allow me to have a divided heart. Does that make sense? And so I think some people can multitask. And do you know what? Will Wade is take a job and still focus on his team and still focus on everything else associated with it. I'm just different in a personality. It doesn't make me right, doesn't make him wrong. It's just how I do things. And so my attention and my kids know that my attention is on them and making sure that we're at our best and that I fight for what they are. And again, has it hurt me in the past? It absolutely has, but it's helped me create a level of loyalty with the people surrounding the program, because it's like, I Know, I know where his heart is at. Like, I know where it's at. You know, regardless of, you know, all these things and speculation and stuff like that is, you know, I'm making sure that I fight for Drake and fight for these kids and fight for these players, and, you know, that's what I've done for seven, eight years and approved it, and I'll continue to do it the same way.
- [47:49]
Doug Gottlieb
All right, most important question is, when did you start the white shirt, solid tie?
- [47:53]
Ben McCollum
Look, a long time ago. I probably. Gosh, I bet 2016, probably somewhere in that range, because I know I had it 2017, that was our first national championship, probably 2016, maybe even earlier. You know, I used to wear just different colored ties, different color shirts, you know, different everything. And then I was like, man, I don't even want to make a decision today because we got to make 10,000 decisions in the game.
- [48:22]
Doug Gottlieb
Yeah.
- [48:23]
Ben McCollum
So I was just, you know, I was. I always was fascinated by Billy Donovan and. And they just wore a white shirt, so I just wore a white shirt. And you don't.
- [48:32]
Doug Gottlieb
Okay, so then the. Then the follow up is. Is that the same blue tie or there multiple blue ties that look alike?
- [48:41]
Ben McCollum
It is the same blue tie. Always the same blue tie. Yep. It stays the same the whole year. Just like it.
- [48:48]
Doug Gottlieb
How do you not get a spot? How do you not get anything on it? I get coffee on it. I get something.
- [48:52]
Ben McCollum
Yeah, it's. It's. It's used now. It's. It's used, my man. That's the beauty of it. What do you think our team is? We're a bunch of scrappers now. That's what we do. So it's no. There's.
- [49:05]
Doug Gottlieb
There's no. There's no backup tie. There's. There's no backup tie.
- [49:08]
Ben McCollum
No, no. Heck, no. No backup players either. No, we just. Tie is who we are as a team, man. We're not perfect and we're, you know, sometimes we're bruised and battered, but we're always fighting, so that's pretty good. I just made that up, so. But no, it's. It's the same tie all the time.
- [49:30]
Doug Gottlieb
Well, listen, I. I appreciate that. When I got. We got. We had a check for my coaching clinic that I was able to watch over on the other sideline. I had no doubt of what would happen yesterday. I'm really interested in what happens tomorrow. We wish you the best of luck, and we'll talk soon. Thanks so much for joining us.
- [49:45]
Ben McCollum
Yes. Thanks for having me on.
- [49:47]
Doug Gottlieb
I appreciate it. It's Ben McCollum. He's the head coach of the Drake Bulldogs. He's won four national titles at the Division 2 level. In his first year at Division 1, they are 31 and three on the year.
- [50:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is Nikki Glazer from the Nikki Glazer Podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid.
- [50:15]
Doug Gottlieb
I don't know. This.
- [50:16]
Colin Cowherd
This commercial really got me. It's a strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following OTs upwithhate.
- [50:31]
Doug Gottlieb
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week, we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dressing. Dressing.
- [51:04]
Ben McCollum
Oh, French dressing.
- [51:05]
Doug Gottlieb
Exactly. That's good.
- [51:08]
Ben McCollum
I'm A.J.
- [51:09]
Doug Gottlieb
Jacobs, and my current obsession is puzzles, and that has given birth to my podcast the Puzzler. Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly.
- [51:18]
Ben McCollum
This is fun.
- [51:19]
Doug Gottlieb
You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now. Women who were murderers and scammers, but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers, and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal, gory details of horrific acts. I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult, and all the nuance I can find because these are the stories that we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice, and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between, listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.