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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon.
- [00:07]
Joy Taylor
To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific.
- [00:10]
Colin Cowherd
Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
- [00:20]
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.
- [00:27]
Oh, here we go. It is a Wednesday eve of the NFL draft. We got all sorts of stuff. In fact, something may break during the show. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. Very, very interesting night tonight. The warriors try to make it 20 on Houston. You know, J. Mac, yesterday we talked during the show the line Vegas was telling you who was going to win the game last night. Not the Lakers were favored, but it was a five and a half point spread. Which considering they got thumped in game one, kind of told you what the odds makers thought is that they were going to play with much more energy. So we kept saying, you know, Lakers are the side, they're going to win, they're going to win comfortably. It actually was closer at the end than it needed to be because the Lakers really thumped them.
- [01:16]
Jason McIntyre
Well, they took their foot off the gas in the fourth, but Lakers for sure, easy, easy winner.
- [01:20]
Colin Cowherd
All right, so the two biggest differences from game one, number one, Lakers were immediately physical and made Minnesota work for everything. And number two is the T Wolves couldn't hit their threes and they shoot a lot of them and they did all year. But when Ant, who's a great three point shooter is two for eight, they're in trouble. And they were. And I thought last night is what I actually thought the series was going to look like, which is a limited offensive team with Ant being the best player. And you're kind of crossing your fingers night tonight. If Julius Randle can deliver, he was good last night. But what's remarkable to me that at 40 years old, with other stars in the game like Luka and Ant, Lebron is still the tone setter in that game last night. Activity, energy, defense, setting the tempo. It was LeBron and you could feel his presence every time he was on the floor. And it's interesting, if you go to LeBron's career following a loss, he's the very best LeBron. In fact, LeBron's always been great in the second game of a playoff series. He tends to feel out the first game and then attack in the second game sort of how all of us are with the second cup of coffee at work. You know that first cup of coffee, you're trying to get organized. We're not. Any of us are not really capable of completing a grown up task until we're into the second cup of coffee. And that's how LeBron does it. He's like a boxer that feels out the first round and then he attacks in round two. And that's what LeBron did. And that's why LeBron's comp is not Michael Jordan. It's Brady. For Brady, at 45 years old, to lead the NFL and pass attempts and throw for 4700 yards and lead the league in completions, that's LeBron who in year 22, with other stars on the floor in a crucial game for the Lakers, LeBron's the tone setter. And remember, LeBron tried to pass the baton to AD four years ago. He tried to say, hey, dude, I'm not into points. Lead us in scoring. And although AD finally got in shape and AD was very consistent defensively, you never knew what you were getting from AD offensively. So, so often LeBron would wait. When he was a teammate at AD, he would play a very soft first quarter, want AD to take the baton with scoring. And AD wouldn't. And then LeBron would have to take over and pray Austin Reaves could help him be the two. This is where LeBron and Luka are. Great is that LeBron's not into the points thing. He doesn't care. He wants energy in the fourth quarter. He conserves it when he can. Like last night, he couldn't. He had to play with energy right out of the gate. But he was letting Luca take over the scoring. LeBron's not one of these guys that needs the buckets. He wants the win. That's what his legacy is. So last night, Luka 31 points, LeBron 21. He is totally comfortable with that. He. That's why AD and LeBron. There's a lot of talk now, it could be Internet rumors that LeBron knew the trade was coming. I don't know if he did, But I think LeBron was okay with the trade because LeBron is always understood who plays off me well. Austin Reaves, he loves him. Why he can score and shoot. He didn't like Kyle Kuzma. Why? As Milwaukee found out, he still can't shoot. LeBron couldn't depend on Kuzma. LeBron feels like, oh, I can come. I can depend on Austin Reaves in most series to be Good. Although he's been a little clunky so far. So this, this to me is what really is amazing. This is the 55th playoff series for LeBron and he remains the tone setter with Ant and Luca also on the floor. And here was LeBron in his game two performance.
- [05:09]
LeBron James
We looked at what we didn't do so well, which was a lot of things in game one. We take that to heart. We hold each other accountable, we make the adjustments, and we had a better island tonight, and now we have. We need to be even better on Friday, you know, you know, going into Minnesota. So that's what the playoffs is all about. But you got to be able to stay even keel no matter what's going on.
- [05:29]
Colin Cowherd
I do like the Lakers in the series. I think it probably goes 6, not 5, but this is what I thought it would look like. And it's a really big distinction between AD and Luca LeBron after they won the championship, the COVID championship. Remember the next year, AD came out of shape to camp, and I was told it ticked LeBron off. It was like, okay, dude, it's your team. I'm gonna be ready for the fourth. And he couldn't because you never knew what you were getting with AD and then AD Got healthy, took his body seriously. But in the end, LeBron still couldn't trust him. Offensively. LeBron loves Luca. Luka can have 18 point quarters, 23 point halves, and it lets LeBron play off the ball, conserve some energy. This LeBron has always known who he would play well with and who he wouldn't. He, he knows the game and he knew there's two guys, three guys in the league. I'd be great with Steph. And he flirted for a couple years. Steph said, no thanks, Jokic. That was never going to happen. Denver's not letting him go. And Luca, I believe LeBron is always known. Steph Jokic and Luka are the three stars in this league he would trust and he'd be great with. And now he's got one. Okay, so this came out. Oh, boy. I can hear all the young media sycophant fanboys freaking out over this. Tom Pelissero, NFL Network apparently wrote an article on Shador Sanders, said a lot of good stuff, but there were multiple people who did not like Shador Sanders attitude. Now, this is a story now because Shador Sanders, over the last week to two weeks, we've heard about him dropping in the draft. One of the quotes in the story was the worst formal interview I've Ever seen in my life. Horrible body language, blames teammates. Biggest thing is he's just not that good. An assistant NFL coach told Pelissero, I didn't. It didn't go great in our interview. He wants to dictate everything, what he's going to do, and it kind of makes you feel small. So listen, interviews do matter a little bit for quarterbacks. Baker Mayfield, I was told, was so good in his interviews. He had so much football knowledge. He had such great energy, great eye contact, sense of humor. People were blown away with Baker Mayfield in the interview. He was good on the whiteboard. Funny, confident without arrogant. So my takeaway on this is, yeah, this is part of being in a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers, by the way, read Ian O'Connor's book, why did he drop in the draft? Aaron came across as too cocky. It matters. I can just already see the fence being built to protect Shador Sanders, who I like. But the scouts, they're not just making stuff up. Coaches don't make stuff up. Remember, we were warned about Kyler Murray's attitude. Yeah, they were right. Cam Newton's ego, Johnny Manziel's focus. If Josh Rosen could stay healthy. Jay Cutler's arrogance. Yeah, they were right on all those. And now people say, what about C.J. stroud? Oh, boy. People like C.J. stroud, they said his comp was Jared Goff. Super accurate, doesn't get hurt, doesn't move a ton. That's not a bad comp. Jared Goff's been to a Super Bowl. Okay. And. And the other thing was, there's a new test out. It's called an S2 evaluation. It's just more information. It doesn't mean it's foolproof. CJ Stroud did not do well on it. Bryce Young had an amazing through the roof score. So obviously it doesn't just equal wins, but it's more information. It's a cognitive test, and people think it's better than Wonderlic. It's really good with quarterbacks. You still need a left tackle and a good coach and a good coordinator and a good owner and a good general manager. But it's just more information. So this article has a ton of nice things about Shador Sanders. It says a bunch of nice stuff, but there are a couple people that say it comes across as cocky. And I've said this, and I said it's about Kayla Williams. Over the next two to three years, you got to be very careful. I believe in judging a kid's confidence as an NFL scout because they're all getting paid now. They're all millionaires coming into the game. And some of those kids have had money, some of those kids have not have money. But last year's class, Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, and especially Caleb Williams, he was the first quarterback ever drafted that was richer than, than any of the scouts that interviewed him. I mean, he had a better net worth before he signed a contract with the Bears. And so the kids have money now. They're being empowered by NFL. There's going to be a little bit of confidence and I think some of that confidence will come across as arrogance to NFL people because these kids now, they don't come in wide eyed, they're driving new cars, they may own a condo, their family's more set. They're going to come in and not grovel to you. And I think a lot of NFL people are kind of used to quarterbacks coming in. Yes, sir, no, sir. Hey coaches, they got more money than you do. So I do think this is something over the next three or four years to watch it play out. I, I, I when I hear worst interview ever, that seems a little dramatic to me. But I would say this to the media as well. Take a deep breath. This is just all information. Interviews matter. They were right on Johnny Manziel. I mean, Cam Newton's a great podcaster. Why? Because he's more personality. That's why in the NFL never had back to back winning seasons. But he was memorable. Like that's what people said going into the Cam Newton draft. Like he's a lot of personality, a little bit into Cam, everybody freaked out. And that's actually why Cam's kind of a good podcaster. He's a performer. And that was what they said. The stuff is mostly right, right. It was right on Johnny Menzel. And by the way, the people that love Baker Mayfield, not everybody, but the people that love them, they're like, he can read a defense, teammates will love him. He's got a ton of confidence. They've been right on Baker Mayfield and the critics of it myself were a little bit ego, kind of immature, maybe not as good athletically as people think. And that was right too. So don't overreact to this. I can see young people now coming into the sport with a little ego, a little confidence. They've been paid, they made money. It's not the end of the world. I think Shador's biggest issue is one that is well documented. Arm mobility, size. His traits are okay, that's the issue. The interview stuff. This feels a Little hot for me, but I can see everybody freaking out. This is unfair. No, it's not. It's totally fair. This is the game. This is what happens when you're a quarterback. Andrew Luck came out literally a perfect prospect and people questioned his arm strength. It was like you watched him. Do you ever think, you know, Andrew Luck's a noodle arm? Other than that he's fantastic. Like, everybody gets picked apart. Take a deep breath. All right. But it is interesting, J Mac, that a week ago to two weeks ago, because these interviews were done a long time ago, now they're getting out because people are doing a lot of articles and so, you know, the athletics got six articles a day and now stuff's coming out. I do think what is interesting though, that even the people who like Shador Sanders, like, there's the Giants, people in the building like him. The buildings also split. See, what you're getting with Shador Sanders is because let's take Cam Ward out. He's going to the Titans.
- [13:22]
LeBron James
Right.
- [13:23]
Colin Cowherd
Every quarterback after that, Jackson Dart, people are very mixed. Shador mixed. Jalen Melroel mixed. What we have outside of Cam Ward is B to B minus quarterback prospects. And when you have that, you get divided opinions.
- [13:38]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. Your Shador point is great. I think it's worth a larger discussion. So, Colin, you and I have run businesses.
- [13:44]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [13:44]
Jason McIntyre
You've interviewed a lot of people.
- [13:45]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [13:46]
Jason McIntyre
Some kid comes in thinking he's a hot shot. Hey, how are you? What's up, man? Acting all cool and too cool for school. I've made my money, I've got my social media following. If he acts like that, are you more likely to hire him or be like, oh, if this is what he's like in the interview, what's this guy going to be like to deal with? Because I know you want to give pause that some of these coaches are older and they want, yes, sir. No, sir. I. If she does walking in there like his stuff don't stink, I don't know that I want that in my building. As a young leader of a football.
- [14:15]
Colin Cowherd
I remember when my daughter was interviewing for jobs and I talked to her about this, I said, I'm just going to tell you what dad thinks. You can take this information for whatever you want. But I own a business and I have a staff. I have a radio, TV staff. I've got a volume staff. I said, don't ask about vacation.
- [14:34]
Jason McIntyre
Right.
- [14:36]
Colin Cowherd
Don't ask. When I hear that, I'm like, oh. I said, I don't care if you think that's what all the young hipsters ask about is work life balance. Nobody wants to hear about work life balance. That's the only advice I'm going to give you. You're going to work and work hard. When do I start? I said, I'm just telling you for dad. In my generation, and my generation owns a lot of those businesses, we're turned off by that, like, because we worked our butt off. We're not going to work you to the bone. We're not asking for 70 hours a week. But if you ask about vacation, and that's a real priority. You know what? Go be an influencer on ig.
- [15:11]
Jason McIntyre
By the way, Patrick Mahomes dad was a professional baseball player. You think he walked into interviews with NFL teams acting like he was the man? I'm not bashing Shador here. I personally would take him at 2 or 3.
- [15:22]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [15:22]
Jason McIntyre
So it almost feels like there's an old coach somewhere around the league who sat in on an interview and heard and saw this and was like, yeah, I want this guy. I'm like, if he's acting like this in an interview, what's he going to be like in the locker room?
- [15:33]
Colin Cowherd
Well, and again, I think it's. It's. I think both are true. I think young quarterbacks now and young college football players come in with money, so they're not groveling. I think that's true. That's not a bad thing, but it's true. I also think it depends on the coach. I think a Sean McVeigh would handle it better. But there are a lot of coaches in this sport, old defensive coaches, they want a you know, a kind of Neil to quite kiss the ring. Right.
- [16:04]
Jason McIntyre
Show some respect. I mean, now, Brian Dabel, he can't roll another meeting and be like, here's all my super bowl rings. He can't do that. Whereas a Belichick could back in the day, Mike Tomlin could do that. Here's my super bowl ring, son.
- [16:15]
Colin Cowherd
How are you?
- [16:15]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, by the way, very curious about.
- [16:17]
Colin Cowherd
By the way. You and I have both interviewed for jobs. I have had good interviews. I think I interview pretty well. But I've had interviews before. I walk out and I'm like, I was weird.
- [16:26]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah.
- [16:27]
Colin Cowherd
He was like, the interviewer is aggressive. Or they're not. They're not really looking for what I provide. So listen, interviews. These interviews are not four hours long. Sometimes they're 10 minutes. Not all interviews go well. I mean, I've done a million podcasts with people. Sometimes the podcast is over and I'M like, that wasn't a very good podcast. It just never got going.
- [16:49]
Jason McIntyre
Some of the advice you would give your kid, hey, play it safe. You know, don't say anything risky and feel out the interview the way Mike Tyson would feel out of fight or LeBron feels out of series. Ease in. Don't come in all cocky. And I just wonder if Shedeur has turned off enough that he plummets here and I don't.
- [17:05]
Colin Cowherd
I still contend. I still contend Cam Newton turns the people off. But Cam was so damn talented. Who cares?
- [17:14]
Jason McIntyre
Shedor is not in his class.
- [17:15]
Colin Cowherd
Well, that's what I'm saying. Caleb Williams turned some people off. Caleb's too talented. The biggest issue with Shador is arm. Okay. Mobility, average size. That's the issue is that if people like I keep hearing about, you know, this kid that went transferred to ucla, Nico, everybody's oh, bad, bad, bad kid. If he lights it up at UCLA or had he lit it up at Tennessee, he's going in the first round.
- [17:43]
Jason McIntyre
Got them to the playoffs.
- [17:44]
Colin Cowherd
Yes.
- [17:45]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah.
- [17:45]
Joy Taylor
Come on.
- [17:46]
Colin Cowherd
In the end, the greater the talent.
- [17:49]
Jason McIntyre
Just to be clear, I would take Shador at 3 if I were the Giant. I know people don't love him. I would. I haven't interviewed him or anything, but I would look hard at like if you don't get a quarterback and you're the giants, hello 5 and 12, like that's where you're headed.
- [18:00]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah. You and I are both on. We like him more than the world does. Yeah. So. And these stories, it's just part of the game.
- [18:06]
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.
- [18:15]
Joy Taylor
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just asked the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh, really?
- [18:33]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks.
- [18:33]
Joy Taylor
Capital One Bank Guy.
- [18:34]
Colin Cowherd
What's in your wallet?
- [18:36]
Joy Taylor
Terms apply. See capital1.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC.
- [18:43]
Colin Cowherd
At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise.
- [19:18]
Joy Taylor
Any part of the game.
- [19:19]
Colin Cowherd
So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving.
- [19:28]
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- [20:29]
Joy Taylor
Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders all right, welcome back.
- [21:05]
Colin Cowherd
So, you know, for a couple years, thank God I don't read social media, but for a couple years, here's all I've heard Every time we talk about the Milwaukee Bucks. I've come on this show and said, yeah, they're too old. It's not going to work. Time to blow it up. They don't have any draft picks. They gave up too many for Dame. It's not going to work. And Milwaukee fan is like, you guys cherry pick. You don't watch the games. You don't know. No, actually we've been right. They're going to lose to the Pacers. I predicted a week ago. I said Pacers got better players. Pacers have an undervalued roster. Pacers have three really good players in their prime. Milwaukee giannis is a $25 million chandelier in a rundown house. And so. And he's putting up huge numbers in this series. He's a monster. He didn't have good enough players around him. He's had one. And I'm not blaming him. He's great. He's probably slightly out of his prime, or maybe he's in his prime, but he's great. But it doesn't matter. They don't have draft picks. The Kyle Kuzma move at the deadline was a nothing. Burger Dame is a weakness defensively and past his prime. So Milwaukee's had one great playoff run and they won a title. Every other year has been a disappointment since then. And they're gonna get, they're gonna get knocked out of this series. They'll win game three, but they're gonna get knocked out of this series. In fact, in Giannis's last seven playoff games, he's had huge numbers. The Bucks are over seven. So again, the national media skepticism was right on point. He's doing 35 and 15 in this series and they're down.02. And they're clearly the inferior team. And we were saying on this show three years ago, you don't have to sit and watch every NBA game. They're just not athletic enough. They're not young enough. Boston still got some youth. Cleveland has youth. You can. Oklahoma City's got youth. There's a lot. The west has tons of young athletic teams. Milwaukee's too old. So listen, this, this, this towns, this city lost Lu Alcinder, Favre and Aaron Rodgers and somehow survived. To me, you could guarantee your viability as a franchise by trading Giannis in the off season and getting five first round picks and four players. I mean, look what Rudy Gobert got. You can get a ton and it'll guarantee for the next 10 years you're a viable franchise. You are not winning a trophy with Giannis. You don't have the draft. Capital Dame's getting older by the second. Kyle Kuzma's not it. You're not winning a trophy. So what are your standards? I mean, Green Bay, the Packers may have their faults, but they're trying to win Super Bowls. They're making moves to win Super Bowls. Milwaukee, you want to be a playoff team because Boston and Cleveland and are significantly better. Like, it's not close athletically, defensively. And, and so it's one of these things when people say, you can't trade Luca, you could trade Luca. You can't do it for one first round pick. If you'd have traded Luca to the Lakers for AD Austin Reeves and three first round picks okay, you got to sleep on that. Giannis, he may not be able to hit a free throw. I'd want four first round picks. I'd want an all star level player and then two or three other players because I wouldn't have to pay him anymore. Right? I could get some expiring contracts, but this thing's not working. Yeah, I know. The media cherry picks. No. Sometimes the national guys, because they're not as emotionally embedded in the franchise, can see the truth. You are watching the truth in this series.
- [24:40]
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific Draft coverage. Yep, with the first pick, the biggest names that know about every player and every team. You've got it right here. Listen, Fox NFL insider Jay Glazer, former New York jets general manager Joe Douglas, college football hall of Famer and former number two overall pick levar Arrington and Fox Sports League college football reporter Jenny Taft, who deliver the pick by pick coverage.
- [25:09]
This is an exciting night.
- [25:11]
Foxtraft Night Live lives right here on Fox Sports Radio.
- [25:15]
Joy Taylor
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Oh, really?
- [25:32]
Colin Cowherd
Thanks.
- [25:33]
Joy Taylor
Capital One Bank Guy.
- [25:34]
Colin Cowherd
What's in your wallet?
- [25:36]
Joy Taylor
Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com Bank Capital One NA Member.
- [25:41]
Colin Cowherd
FDIC at the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA Champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL Draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title.
- [25:53]
Joy Taylor
The Ultimate.
- [25:54]
Colin Cowherd
The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space.
- [26:11]
Joy Taylor
The IX is completely changing the game.
- [26:14]
Colin Cowherd
With an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise.
- [26:17]
Joy Taylor
Any part of the game.
- [26:18]
Colin Cowherd
So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified.
- [26:29]
Advertiser
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- [27:29]
Joy Taylor
Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a better leader? Visit paycor.comleaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders.
- [28:04]
Colin Cowherd
Here we go. It's hour two. First one flew by. Draft begins tomorrow. Warriors rockets tonight. J. Mac is just throwing, throwing hypotheticals at me left and right. Now he's got his legs under him because yesterday he got into town Monday and yesterday was his first show back from Japan. So he was a little groggy. But today very laser focused.
- [28:30]
Jason McIntyre
Well, you know, it's fun. We could spar on anything. Yesterday's talk about the top American basketball player that's down going wild on the Internet. People loved our discussion and I hope the overrated one doesn't go wild because we disagree a little.
- [28:42]
Colin Cowherd
We disagree. I will tell you this. Listen, I, and I don't even know why this is. But hockey guy, you can always. Hockey guys insecure in America. Anytime you talk about the NBA, hockey's better. Nobody watches hockey. The ratings for the playoffs last year, hockey ratings. This year ESPN signed a bad contract. It's, it's not viable. The NBA is fine. It'll always be fine because it's a star driven league which has a cultural impact in America. Okay? You can name 15 NBA players. You don't even have to like the league. You can name four warriors, right? Like nobody. Sportscasters in America can't name six hockey players. So the ratings came out over the weekend for the playoffs. It was the highest TV ratings in 25 years. Well, it was Easter, whatever, they were good games. The bottom line is the NBA got off to a really slow start because it was an election year. October, November, even the NFL was down. Okay? And also we had a Yankee Dodger World Series. We had a college football playoff. It was a distracted nation. The NBA works and they just signed a 76 billion dollar contract because it's star driven. And folks, I've been in this business for a long time. Here's what works. Every industry in a distracted nation with stars. The UFC was more popular when Conor McGregor and Jon Jones were in their prime. It still makes a lot of money, but those guys drove huge revenue. Baseball, right now, it's got all its stars in the right markets. Ohtani, Freeman, Betts in la, Aaron Judge and Soto in New York. It's got its stars in the right place. Harper, Philadelphia, Acuna, Atlanta. You don't want your, you know, like in the beginning of the NBA season you had Oklahoma City and Cleveland crushing it. And then Jimmy Butler goes to San Francisco, Luka goes to Los Angeles. This is not the NFL. Baseball and basketball need the right players in the right markets and the right close series to get numbers. The league is fine. It's fine. By the way, the election was the most polarizing of my life. October, November and half of December, people were watching more politics. You know, now, now they were really watching Fox News. They weren't watching the other one. But the point being is when we're distracted, numbers go down. Sometimes we are. All right, so a guy that I trust, dad used to coach in the NFL. He works@NFL.com radio star, co host on the bench in Houston. He is joining us. Lance Erlein is in studio. And we do not get Lance in studio much. It's great to see you, my man.
- [31:28]
Lance Zierlein
Good to be here.
- [31:29]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, so by the way, I'm all.
- [31:31]
Lance Zierlein
Over the Rockets and Warriors tonight.
- [31:33]
Colin Cowherd
It's a great series.
- [31:34]
Lance Zierlein
Can't wait.
- [31:34]
Colin Cowherd
One can shoot one's athletic. That's what makes it great.
- [31:38]
Lance Zierlein
That's right.
- [31:39]
Colin Cowherd
So let's start with the quarterback class macro. How does it compare to last year's perception?
- [31:45]
Lance Zierlein
Great quarterback class, I would say from a comparison, it's, it's terrible. It's not even close to last year's. However, if you take a look at just the top end, we're going to go Cam Ward. Cam Ward. For me, he would fit in. I have the same grade on him that I had on Bo Nicks. So it's the same grade. But Bo Nicks went to the perfect fit. Right? Sean Payton was the absolute perfect fit. When you look at Shador Sanders, he would not have been in that first round mix. I think he is in the first round mix this year. Obviously Shador is going to Go into first this year. He would have gone maybe in the second round last year, maybe even in the third round because teams don't like, they don't like drafting players in the second round. There's only been six quarterbacks drafted in the second round over the last 10 years.
- [32:30]
Colin Cowherd
Wow.
- [32:30]
Lance Zierlein
35 first rounders and 14 third rounders. So it's like that's a line of demarcation. You're either a starter or you're a backup. And you know, I think with, with Cam Ward, he would have been probably the seventh quarterback off the board based on how it tracked. But I think he deserved to be in that conversation last year. That's the only quarterback I would have had in that conversation, would not have had dart, would not have had Shador Sanders in that conversation last year.
- [32:57]
Colin Cowherd
So the kid I talked about this yesterday, the kid that is being overshadowed in this draft is Travion Henderson for Ohio State. So because Genti, such a unique 5, 8 Boise State guy, all the attention and then Hampton is great, kind of a Joe Mixon, but more burst level player. So nobody's paying attention to Travian Henderson. And he was a jump, he was a pop off the TV player. For me that when he touched the ball and got a little space. I don't know what his 40 time is, but how do you view him in the class?
- [33:30]
Lance Zierlein
To me he is a bigger, he's a bigger difference maker and I've got a higher grade on him than Omarion Hampton.
- [33:37]
Colin Cowherd
Wow.
- [33:37]
Lance Zierlein
That Genti I think is special. He's my top player in the entire draft. I have the highest grade on him. He's not going to go first, but the last time I did that was Saquon Barkley in that amazing 18 draft. I had Barkley there and Quinton Nelson second. Roquan was in that draft. It was a great draft. But with Treveon Henderson, I'm with you. If you didn't learn anything from Jameer Gibbs and what the Detroit Lions did, then you're just not paying enough attention to football. Having a player like Treveon Henderson, he took the momentum, had left, was gone from Ohio State against Texas, he takes that swing pass, that little screen and takes it the distance for a touchdown before the half. He has that ability. If you look at him versus Quinshawn Judkins, the same exact offensive line, he averaged like 1.8 yards more per carry than Judkins. And that just gets to his burst, his explosiveness. And the game is, is based on explosive plays and the ability to Create touchdowns from anywhere on the field. And Henderson and Genty are the two guys that have that.
- [34:36]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, we hear the Giants because I think that the draft starts with the Giants.
- [34:42]
Lance Zierlein
Yeah, it does.
- [34:42]
Colin Cowherd
Right. So we know it's Cam Ward, Travis Hunter, don't have any problem with those picks. We hear their split in the building on Shador Sanders. How would you react to that?
- [34:52]
Lance Zierlein
I've heard that it's not a split. I've heard they're in alignment that it's not Shador Sanders. So that's what I've heard. And so I don't think Shador Sanders is in play at three at all. I think they'd like for you to believe it, but one of the things that's happening is it seems like there's a lot of teams that want you to believe that they're in on Shador Sanders because they think they're going to elicit a phone call and a trade up. I don't think it's going to happen. I think he goes 21 to the Pittsburgh Steelers. But I do see the Giants potentially. I've heard day ball likes Jackson Dart. And so if that's the case, going from the early second round into the first round for Jackson Dart, somewhere in the 20s, you know, the Vikings don't have a lot of draft picks. The Vikings could be a spot that you trade into. That's interesting for Jackson Dart. That's been a. That's been a targeted spot for me, the 24th pick. I put Shador Sanders at 24 with. With in one of my mock drafts with. With Cleveland trading up instead, I think it could be the Giants moving up to Minnesota's pick in the 24th pick. They need a safety. They could maybe get one in an early second. So I think Jackson Dart could make it into the first, but it has to be a trade up. And I don't think the Saints will take him at number nine.
- [35:59]
Colin Cowherd
Okay. So I'm not a scout. I play one on tv, kind of. So I said yesterday, the one player I love unequivocally, because I watched him play 15 times and he just rolled people, was Mason Graham.
- [36:08]
Lance Zierlein
Yeah.
- [36:09]
Colin Cowherd
Now I know Everybody. Now my GMs are like, yes, he's good. He's not as good as you think. And my take is well in this draft. I, you know, Michigan games were on tv. Harbaugh, Michigan. So you got a lot of them. And I don't know what his ceiling is, but I watched him grab and throw Manheim from usc, who will get drafted Ohio State guys physically dominate people. How does scouts look at him?
- [36:34]
Lance Zierlein
Well, they told you and I'm kind of the same way. I think he is a safe player with a high floor. I think the ceiling is pretty limited. He's not a long limb player. He's not somebody that can leverage his way around, around NFL offensive lineman. I think his strength and his leverage will be mitigated a little bit by NFL strength. You know, there's some NFL people who think Kenneth Grant has the higher upside his team. Now, for me, Grant is like second round tape. He's going to get drafted in the first round. Mason Graham is safe. Walter Nolan from Ole Miss is the best defensive tackle in this draft. Walter Nolan is explosive on all three downs. He's disruptive in the backfield on first and second if you want to try to throw. No one is better getting into the pocket from these early round defensive tackles than Walter Nolan from Ole Miss. The knock on him is that he's high maintenance. And so, you know, we've been dropping him back in mock drafts. Dropping them back now. Talk to a couple of executives who said, hey, he's too talented. You better start pushing him forward because all those problems that pop up that you're worried about early in the process, once it gets time to really make the pick and you got to put your job on the line, you start drafting the best talent.
- [37:44]
Colin Cowherd
So I said this, I don't think we'll have a ton of movement at the top of the draft. But what's fascinating to me about this draft, the NFL has been taken over by offensive coaches. If you look at like the 20th pick on, it's a lot of smart offensive guys, right? There's a lot of McVeighs and Andy Reeds and Sean Payton's in that space, no doubt. And I could see him moving up for guys. So if I said to you there's a guy that is a second round grade, maybe, but you think one of these offensive coaches is going to go, that guy's a starter. Who's going to. Who's going to end up in the first that the mock drafts all have in the second?
- [38:20]
Lance Zierlein
That's a really good question. You know, Mason Taylor is one guy that I think could surprise people. Egbuka's going in the first.
- [38:29]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, so he is for sure.
- [38:30]
Lance Zierlein
See, I, I can't say Igbuka because he's in. I'm locking in.
- [38:34]
Colin Cowherd
All right. So yesterday I said if he is the first pick on the second day, there will be major suitors because I Think he's a can't miss.
- [38:44]
Lance Zierlein
I, I, I think he is. We talked about the safety of Mason Graham. You're finding out that what NFL teams like right now is a lot of check marks. And so when it comes to competitive spirit, football character, the ability to run good routes, he's got a pedigree, he's got a winning, you know, he's played with other championship caliber players. Egbuka just doesn't. What do you not like about him? I think his, his speed is average and maybe he's a slot only player. Yeah, but, and, and that's fine. But there's a lot of teams that, that need a slot wide receiver. There's a lot. Especially one who can be a high volume possession guy. But guys who love, you know, my Houston Texans. I, I, I cover the Texans in Houston. Houston Tamiko, Ryan, Demo Ryan's right now the head coach wants a quote unquote swarm mentality. It's a, and it's an an acronym that has to do with basically you're a guy who's high football character and your work ethic and everything is, you know, right on point. He's one of those type of guys. And so when you have that late in the first round you want to start hitting those singles and doubles and a Mecca Egbuca is going to be probably a double and that's why you draft him in the first round. So I couldn't give you your egg buka because I've already got him in the first round. But LSU's Mason Taylor, Jason Taylor's his son, and then of course Zach Thomas's nephew. The guy's got NFL bloodlines. He is a competitive, competitive Tyler, by.
- [40:04]
Colin Cowherd
The way, I watched his games. Yeah, productive baller.
- [40:09]
Lance Zierlein
Baller.
- [40:09]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, baller.
- [40:10]
Lance Zierlein
And I think, and I love Colson Loveland and I love Ty Warren, but Tyler Warren. But I think that Mason Taylor is a small step below those guys and to me, I wouldn't have any problem taking them in the back half of the first round. If you're looking for a Kansas City. Kansas City would be a great selection for Mason Taylor. A possession wide receiver with the ability to make plays after the catch and a great bloodline. And you know, frankly, I just think a really high upside.
- [40:40]
Colin Cowherd
So I said this yesterday, this is my Jackson dart thing and I don't want to pick on the kid because he's an NFL talent. But there is, I've seen this before. I saw it with Paxton lynch and E.J. manuel a little bit with Mitch Trubisky the guys get better when they stop playing. So the season ends, I see them and I'm like, yeah, that's a second, third round quarterback. And then all of a sudden it's like, it's amazing. They get so much better not playing.
- [41:03]
Lance Zierlein
Right.
- [41:03]
Colin Cowherd
And some of it is, don't go to the grocery store when you're hungry. Some of it is, you know, the Giants are hungry. So why. And I have no problem if I'm wrong on this. Why is he a first round quarterback?
- [41:16]
Lance Zierlein
Well, I've got a third round grade on him, so. Yeah, but I mean, a grade is not where I project him. I project him first. Second is where I project him. My grade would be third round. I project him as a low end starter to really good backup and.
- [41:30]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, so you see him as I see him?
- [41:32]
Lance Zierlein
Yeah, I do. I watched your segment yesterday. I thought you were dead on all that. Now, I will address what you said about rising in the process. First, I think what happens is we have a national narrative and a perception based on, you know, people who taught college football, maybe some early draft riders and things like that. And so we have an idea of this is where a player is. But then as NFL evaluators get involved and as coaches start getting involved.
- [41:57]
Colin Cowherd
Now that's interest. Now tell the audience totally different. So the first people to look at this are scouts.
- [42:03]
Lance Zierlein
So it's first is regional scouts.
- [42:04]
Colin Cowherd
Okay.
- [42:05]
Lance Zierlein
Then area scouts, now your director of scouting. And then, you know, your general manager is already busy. He's not. A lot of GMs aren't even worried about players in the fall. They're trying to worry about their NFL team. And then once the season's over, the GM start getting involved. Then you bring the coaches involved. The coaches have to look at their own free agents, then other free agents, and then they're getting to senior ball and combine. And they don't even know most of these, these players by combine. To be honest with you, they have. My dad told me I only watch a few snaps on all these guys. I've got to really start learning them at the combine.
- [42:36]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah.
- [42:36]
Lance Zierlein
And so what happens is coaches then become involved. So a team may have an A, front office may have an idea, but now coaches are talking to quarterbacks. What's his football knowledge? How does he read defenses? What's his care? What's his demeanor like when he walks in the room? Do we feel him? Does he have a. Does he have some juice in the room? And that can change perception quite a bit, you know, inside a building. There can be battles between. The front office sees them here, but the coaching staff who's got to coach them, see them completely different. So that could be one of the reasons as well. But to your point on Jackson Dart, I listen to what you said. I'm with you. I can't help but remember how I took the bite out of the Matt Corral apple. I like Matt Corral a lot. I just think that Ole Miss offense is really fun, favorable to quarterbacks. Now, it doesn't mean Jackson Dart can't play. He can play, but he's got an average arm. He's accurate. I think he has, he really has to put something into it. I stood on the field next to him. I wanted to see and feel all those quarterbacks throw at the combine. Man, he's got to really, you know, get a lot into it to drive the ball. But he is accurate and a lot of coaches like his demeanor. I just think there's a lot of open one on one throws down the field, field. And then there's a lot of stick routes. Just quick hitches to Trey Harris on tape as well. So it's, it's harder to get that first round feel for Jackson Dart free.
- [43:54]
Colin Cowherd
I think over the next 20 years. Lance Zurline joining us for our radio audience covering the NFL draft of the last 24 years. I think over the next 20 years, you're going to see multiple Travis Hunters, athletes like Shohei Ohtani, they're just getting bigger.
- [44:09]
Lance Zierlein
Playing both ways, you mean?
- [44:10]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, I think it's, I think like sh was. We would have laughed 10 years ago if you said there's going to be a guy that's an ace and hits leadoff. That would have been ridiculous. Right? It's like. And now you say if you just said 10 years ago it was going to be a guy who's going to be a starting corner and receiver. I mean, we had Dion, but it, it, it was more return game and corner. And so I look, I look at him and I think when I watch Travis Hunter, there are very few people, even pro athletes on earth that are, have an energy. They never tire. It's Michael Jordan had it, right? I'll golf 18 holes in the sun and then I'll play Larry Bird and the Celtics tonight and drop 48.
- [44:49]
Lance Zierlein
Steph has that too, by the way. Right?
- [44:50]
Colin Cowherd
Just digest the cardio. Whatever. I look at him and I think, yeah, he can play both way. He can play 80 snaps. But I keep going back to this. What is a defensive coordinator on a Tuesday when he's installing. Yeah. Travis is going to be in the offensive meetings. Your dad coached in this league. It's not the talent. A lot of these old D coordinators, they want you in the room.
- [45:11]
Lance Zierlein
Got to be in a room. So you hit it right there. This is why he can't play full time. Both. Both ways. There's a physical component. He's played 2,600 snaps over the last two years. 2,600 snaps, that is an entire career for any other college player. He's done that just in the last two years. So the wear and tear alone when you get into the NFL. I talked to a defensive coordinator who told me he needs to be a wide. He needs to be a wide receiver so he doesn't have to run support. Then he can come over to our side and play corner when it's third down and he doesn't have to tackle. You know, that's. That's how we would use him. I talked to another team that said, no, he's a. He's a lockdown corner with incredible ball skills and instincts. And then we'll run him on the other side of the field and we'll give him eight to nine snaps a game, either as a decoy or as a goal line, you know, red zone, obviously. So there's going to be different ways of looking at it. But the reason you can't do both is you. Your meetings are in separate rooms at separate times. You've got wide receiver meetings and you got a DB meeting. How can you get the reps you need for both positions? Wide receiver is one of the toughest positions to learn as a rookie. You got to learn the playbook and you got to tighten up your technique. Like even Travis Hunter's got a lot of technique stuff to work on at wide receivers. So I think just the. The time spent, the reps you need and the reps in the, in the, in the meeting room, the mental reps, you can't get that at both positions. That's something you can do maybe later on or you can do it part time. You can't do it full time. Both ways. I love the kid. Super competitive, unending energy, as you mentioned. And he's my top wide receiver in the draft and he's my top cornerback in the draft. So any way you want to play him. I'm good with it. I'm good with it. Elite ball skills like I've never seen from a top cornerback.
- [46:52]
Colin Cowherd
Yeah, no leads. Jumps off the TV.
- [46:54]
Lance Zierlein
Yes.
- [46:55]
Colin Cowherd
80 plays. Plays as hard on the 80th play.
- [46:58]
Lance Zierlein
Love him.
- [46:58]
Colin Cowherd
Okay, finally here. So I got to throw out. This is just my meatball topic. I like Kyle McCord. He's a pocket guy. There's limitations. I think he makes, I think he lets it rip. I think he's a confident kid. He's played at a powerhouse that he didn't have to carry. And at Syracuse where he did, I thought he was highly productive. I think 18 yards in, totally trust him. Not a huge arm. But I watch him and I think to myself, if that guy landed with a McVeigh and sat for two years, could he come out of that draft? And you're like, yeah, he had a 12 year career.
- [47:36]
Lance Zierlein
I could. You know, he is one of those guys and it's because of what you said, he has that mentality now. It's going to work both ways. And. And you say the same thing for Cam Ward. Right.
- [47:45]
Colin Cowherd
He'll make mistakes, going to make mistakes.
- [47:47]
Lance Zierlein
But I'm willing, as they say, you'd rather be able to say whoa than go. You'd rather have someone. You know, one of the problems right now for Quinn, yours is you got to push it down the field a little bit.
- [47:57]
Advertiser
He's.
- [47:58]
Lance Zierlein
Everything has come back to check downs. Kyle McCord, he's going to let it rip.
- [48:02]
Colin Cowherd
He's got a little bit of a Philip Rivers.
- [48:04]
Lance Zierlein
He does that.
- [48:05]
Colin Cowherd
That was my. He's more athletic, but he's not that athletic.
- [48:08]
Lance Zierlein
No, but a better, better arm than Philip Rivers. And Philip's such an outlier. He's such a one to one a.
- [48:13]
Colin Cowherd
Go for it guy.
- [48:14]
Lance Zierlein
But he will and, and I like that. I like that he takes chances. Now what you have to do is try to mitigate the mistakes a little bit. But he is one of those guys in like the fourth round that I think could be really, really intriguing. I want to find guys with plus traits and I think that aggressiveness is a plus trait for Kyle McCourt. So that's not a bad, that's not a bad name in the fourth round. But honestly, once you get into the middle rounds, like I don't think there's really many sets, secret prospects and Jalen Milro on the first. You watch a lot of college football. I don't know where people I can't find on tape that he's anywhere near a first rounder. Not as a quarterback.
- [48:46]
Colin Cowherd
He's. He's way too mechanical to be a great pro.
- [48:51]
Lance Zierlein
Right.
- [48:52]
Colin Cowherd
He is so ridiculously athletic.
- [48:55]
Lance Zierlein
Yes.
- [48:55]
Colin Cowherd
He could be a great piece to a team. I, to me, if Kalyn Deboer has had such success. Kalin was at wit's end last year. That's a guy that Michael Pennik's had surgeries. It didn't matter. So if Kalyn DeBoer is struggling with him and I heard inside the building they love the kid.
- [49:14]
Lance Zierlein
Oh, yeah.
- [49:15]
Colin Cowherd
So. But I think what's happened is people are going well. Lamar Jackson, Lamar throws the ball from the pocket now really well.
- [49:23]
Lance Zierlein
Really well.
- [49:24]
Colin Cowherd
Really well.
- [49:24]
Lance Zierlein
Made a lot of improvements. Jalen hurts. Comparing her to Jalen hurts. That's not fair. I think Jalen Milroe is in elite athlete like we've never seen. I think teams are talking about him because they want to get an explosive player in the building. We'll figure out where we're playing him or how we're playing later. I just think to expect him to operate from the pocket after watching what I saw on tape the last two years because I watched every throw the last two years. Just the decision making right now is not good enough. The accuracy is not good enough. But I get having an, an explosive player and an elite athlete in the building and we'll figure out what we're going to do and how we're going to, you know, make the offense go with him. I totally understand that in the first round. I just, I couldn't get there personally in the first round. That's one of those things. And Tyler Schuck, another guy that's a late comer that we talked about before. A lot of physical traits that you love. Maybe second best to Cam Ward, maybe right up there with Cam Ward been a seven year player in three of those years he's been, you know, season ending injury. So it's hard to put your, your stamp on that in the first round.
- [50:23]
Colin Cowherd
All right. Lance Zer line co Host of the bench 97.5 in Houston Rockets warriors tonight. That is a great series. One team can't shoot but has all the athletes. The other team's old and can. So that'll be game two tonight. It's always a pleasure to have you.
- [50:37]
Lance Zierlein
Love it.
- [50:37]
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- [52:15]
Colin Cowherd
Free agents podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.
- [52:21]
Jason McIntyre
We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.
- [52:25]
Colin Cowherd
And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.
- [52:27]
Jason McIntyre
So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.
- [52:36]
Colin Cowherd
Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [52:46]
Advertiser
We live in a divided country, and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.