Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – "Best of The Herd" (June 19, 2025)

Released by iHeartPodcasts and The Volume, this episode of "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" delves into some of the most pressing sports narratives of the day. Hosted by Colin Cowherd, alongside contributors Jason McIntyre and Christine Brennan, the episode offers in-depth discussions, critical analyses, and insightful commentary on various sports topics.

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1. Lakers' Ownership Sale and Future Prospects

Christine Brennan kicks off the episode by addressing the recent sale of the Los Angeles Lakers. The team was sold for a staggering $10 billion, marking one of the most significant transactions in sports history. The new ownership group, led by Mark Walter, who already owns a stake in the Dodgers, is poised to bring a new era of management and investment to the franchise.

• Brennan remarks at [02:45]:
  "This is a great day to be a Laker fan. The group that bought the Lakers already owned a part of them...they are very shrewd LA residents."

• She emphasizes the contrast between the new owners and the longstanding Buss family:
  "The Lakers have been a mom and pop shop for years...But this is 2025 and it's pro sports. The organization needs more juice, more financing, more eyes, new eyes."

Brennan expresses optimism, highlighting the Dodgers' successful ownership as a benchmark, stating, "They spend more money than anyone. But they are very judicious. They rarely miss." This strategic approach is expected to translate into enhanced performance and stability for the Lakers.

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2. Critique of NFL Quarterbacks' Off-Field Behavior

The conversation shifts to the responsibility of NFL quarterbacks and the impact of their off-field actions on their careers and team dynamics. Brennan criticizes recent incidents involving quarterbacks Shador Sanders, Baker Mayfield, and Deshaun Watson, questioning their maturity and leadership qualities.

• At [07:50], Brennan states:
  "Johnny Manziel...Deshaun Watson. Shador Sanders got caught speeding over 100 miles an hour. It's not a speeding ticket. It's multiple incidents in college."

She draws parallels with past quarterbacks, emphasizing the importance of accountability:

• Brennan asserts at [09:32]:
  "You have to have a meritocracy, not a barbecue. This is a great day...Don’t be afraid of something that's been in the building for years."

The discussion highlights how such behaviors can erode trust within a team and affect player evaluations, stressing that consistent professionalism is crucial for leadership roles on the field.

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3. NBA Finals Update: Game 6 Highlights

Jason McIntyre provides a brief update on the NBA Finals, focusing on Tyrese Halliburton's injury status, which was uncertain ahead of Game 6.

• At [26:27], Halliburton comments on his availability:
  "I'm a competitor. I want to play. I'm going to do everything in my power to play."

Christine Brennan analyzes the implications of his potential absence, suggesting that the game might be slipping away for his team without his contribution.

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4. WNBA's Physical Play and Caitlin Clark's Impact

A significant portion of the episode centers on the WNBA, particularly focusing on Caitlin Clark and her transformative impact on women's basketball. Brennan introduces her new book, "Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports," which explores Clark's role in elevating the WNBA's visibility and financial standing.

• At [37:18], Caitlin Clark shares:
  "Everybody knows that's how I play. Like I want the crowd behind me...that's what we try to give them every single night."

Brennan discusses recent incidents involving Clark, including a physical altercation during a WNBA game that sparked debates about player conduct and league policies.

• At [45:17], Brennan comments on race and player treatment:
  "You cannot take race out of this conversation, nor should we take race out of this conversation because there's so many elements of this story that do involve a 74% black league."

She criticizes the league's handling of the incident, advocating for appropriate disciplinary actions to maintain professionalism and set clear standards.

• At [51:05], Brennan advises on respect and treatment:
  "If you respect women, then let's treat them more like guys...Basketball is gonna fight, they're gonna flagrant, they're gonna technical, they're gonna swear, they're gonna be inappropriate. That's how this thing works."

The segment underscores Clark's pivotal role in driving WNBA attendance and viewership, citing data that shows significant drops in TV audiences when she is absent from games.

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5. Dodgers vs. Padres Rivalry Intensifies

The episode also touches upon the escalating rivalry between the Los Angeles Dodgers and the San Diego Padres. Brennan highlights a recent dramatic moment where Dodgers' Will Smith hit a walk-off home run, solidifying the team's dominance.

• At [30:55], Brennan recounts:
  "Will Smith pushes a fly ball right center field...a walk-off home run for Will Smith. The Dodgers win it the 9th, 4 to 3."

She emphasizes the talent pool and competitive spirit fueling the rivalry, noting the Dodgers' strategic moves to retain and acquire top players, thereby maintaining their competitive edge.

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6. Promotion of Christine Brennan's New Book

Throughout the episode, Christine Brennan promotes her latest work, "Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports." She provides insights into the book's content, highlighting the cultural and economic challenges faced by the WNBA and how Clark's emergence is reshaping the landscape.

• At [44:39], Brennan explains:
  "Caitlin Clark is really the engine here, driving all of it...she is even more important to her sport than those guys were to theirs."

Brennan underscores the unprecedented nature of Clark's influence, comparing her impact to that of legendary athletes like Michael Jordan and Larry Bird in their respective sports.

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Notable Quotes

• Christine Brennan at [02:45]:
  "This is a great day to be a Laker fan."

• Brennan at [07:50]:
  "Johnny Manziel...Deshaun Watson. Shador Sanders got caught speeding over 100 miles an hour."

• Caitlin Clark at [37:18]:
  "Everybody knows that's how I play. Like I want the crowd behind me..."

• Brennan at [45:17]:
  "You cannot take race out of this conversation..."

• Clark at [37:18]:
  "We're here for a show and like that's what I try to give them every single night."

---

Conclusion

In this "Best of The Herd" episode, Colin Cowherd and his co-hosts provide comprehensive coverage of major sports stories, blending analysis with passionate commentary. The discussions range from high-profile ownership changes and player conduct to pivotal moments in both men's and women's sports leagues. Christine Brennan's insights, especially regarding Caitlin Clark and the WNBA, offer a deeper understanding of the evolving dynamics in women's sports. This episode serves as a valuable resource for listeners seeking informed perspectives on current sports events.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jason McIntyre]

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[Jason McIntyre]

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.

[Christine Brennan]

Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon.

[Jason McIntyre]

To 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on.

[Christine Brennan]

The iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Unknown Speaker]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio.

[Christine Brennan]

Oh it is a Thursday. We have so much to talk about. We are Live it is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. We got A.J. persinski talking about the Padres Dodgers rivalry, which is intense. Albert Greer. Christine Brennan has got a new book out. I started it last night. Really interesting on Caitlin Clark. Christine Brennan's very, very critical of the WNBA and I think deservedly so. So we got a lot on the docket today. J. Mac but yesterday after the show there was a. And we. We don't normally talk a ton about this, but there was a sale wasn't long ago. The Celtics sold for 6 billion. Louisiana is a much bigger market. They sold for $10 billion yesterday and nobody. Laker fans aren't quite sure how to react. And I'm here to tell you it is a great day to be a Laker fan. So the group that bought the Lakers already owned a part of them. Mark Walter group, really shrewd LA resident. All you have to do to wonder what's going to happen to the Lakers is look at the Dodgers scouting research and development facilities. Patients A plus plus plus plus Sharp dude. Don't know him. Know people that do. They spend more money than anyone. But they are very judicious. They rarely miss. The Lakers have been a mom and pop shop for years. It's Genie Bus and friends of the family. That's cute. But this is 2025 and it's pro sports. The organization needs more juice, more financing, more eyes, new eyes. And this is what they have. They're going officially from dial up to fiber optic. Yesterday was a great day to be a Laker fan. Now the reports are well, Jeannie Buss will still be the governor. She will still be in the front office. Yeah. And that's what Mark Cuban told us when he sold the Mavs. And then he didn't know about the LUCA trade. That's sort of a big deal. She's not going to have any power now. I think she's done great in operations. She's beloved in Los Angeles. A really cool person. Having her around the organization is awesome. But this is a whole different ball game. When you spend $10 billion to buy something, you're going to have the final say. And that's what the Lakers need. This Dodger group, I'm telling you, man, they update and upgrade constantly. They don't give money away. They could have had Manny Machado. Nope. Corey Bellinger, mvp. Corey Seeger. They'll move off people. Since Mark Walter and his group have arrived, here's the reality. The Dodgers Are first or tied for first and wins pennants, titles, World Series titles. And I hear this stuff. I hear all the fear mongers. Colin. Just another oligarch, another billionaire that doesn't care about the team. You want to know the worst owners in my life? Ted Stepien? Look it up. Donald Sterling, Marge shot. None of them were venture capitalists. None of them, like Mark Walter, were global asset managers. Small thinkers. Bad people. Not this group. When you watch the Dodgers, man, they don't miss. It's impressive. By the way, a lot of teams spend money. Yankees spend a lot of money. They're top heavy. Dodgers never are. So even the way they finance stuff, deferred payments, they're always a step ahead. They go and get the very best people. When they took the Dodgers over, Andrew Friedman was the hot shot GM in Tampa. They went and got him. They were working on that Ohtani deal. Three years when he was an angel. Three years out, they started working on that deal. I would not be surprised if they doubled the R and D. Doubled the scouting department. The Lakers have too many friends and family. I'm looking for a meritocracy, not a barbecue. This is a great day. Don't be afraid of something that's been in the building for years. Now they own all of it. Okay. I think the Lakers, the Buss family owns 15% for a couple years. Okay? The media does something from time to time and it's. It kind of rubs me the wrong way. They pander. And I get it. Athletes are young. I've said this before about the NBA. I'm not going to beat up on young NBA players making mistakes. They come into the league at 18, 19, 20 years old. Okay, but the NFL is different. You come into the NFL at 22, 23. Now some guys are staying in college for nil money. Maybe 25. And at the quarterback position, I am harsh and punitive. The media again, tends to pander too often. I warned Cleveland about Johnny Manziel. Colin, you're overreacting. Uncle Colin was right. I warned you that Baker was good, but too immature. I was right on that too. And Stefanski eventually showed in the door. Baker now has grown up. I like this Baker, but I was right. And I was right about Deshaun Watson. Creepy, cringy. That's not a leader at that position. So yesterday, Shador Sanders got caught speeding over 100 miles an hour. He's a quarterback. Mike Tomlin often says two is a trend. Can't screw up three or four times. Two is a trend. Just two Times I'm not sure if I need two times. When you're a young quarterback, one bad judgment turns me off. But I have now in the last couple of months, two things that really turned me off. Wishador Sanders, who I have championed that cringy, awful, legendary draft room. Bro, you're a B prospect. You know your dad's prime time who led with his ego for years. You got to have a little self awareness. I had more than 1 gm say total turn off. Come on, it's not the end of the world. It's a bad look. And now this. 100 miles an hour. Yep, all you fanboys go ahead. Manziel, Baker, Deshaun Watson defended it to the hilt on your Reddit account.

[Jason McIntyre]

Sorry.

[Christine Brennan]

Don't minimize it. Don't pander. This is not good for a quarterback. Not good as of today, and I've said this for years, I do not cling to opinions. New information, new opinion. I'm an airline pilot. We got a storm coming. Here's the latest radar. I'm changing my route, not flying head first into it. I don't think about him the same. There was a moment I thought Will Levis, about four months out from the draft, had a chance. And I turned on Will Levis when he started showing up like a bodybuilder gun show. And I had two NFL coaches, both needing quarterbacks who text me, got my number and text me. They're like, this is the exact conversation we are having in our building right now. Two NFL coaches, head coaches. They're like, bro, we're laughing, watching this. It matters. New information, legendary 100 miles an hour judgment is 50% of being a quarterback. When you fall to 144 in the draft and then try to match that number behind the wheel of a car. Yeah, I don't think the same. You ignored signs with Manziel and Baker. And apparently, based on the traffic violation, Shedeur was avoiding some signs too. The ones that say stop. I feel differently today. I'm not as high on him. I'm not sure he's mature enough. Now I'm going to have to like Kenny Pickett. J. Mac.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, boy. I'm laughing at Kenny Pickett. Not obviously the Shador situation, but Colin, that's an interesting 180 from you, my guy.

[Christine Brennan]

Yep, yep. Going from, hey, put him in the.

[Unknown Speaker]

Hall of fame because of seven on seven drills in June. And now it's like, well, he was going 41 over the limit. Let's.

[Christine Brennan]

Hey, you know me. You. You and I are similar. This way. New information, new opinion.

[Unknown Speaker]

I would agree.

[Christine Brennan]

And. And I said I did not like the legendary draft room. It was cringy. It's not the end of the world. But people reached out. You add these two together, all you have to do, Cleveland, Manziel, Baker. I kept saying Baker did something. Wasn't the end of the world, but it's something. It's a lack of self awareness. You know, it's like your shirt off, posing with a tiger. It's like, bro, how about you play a game like one before you go supermodel on us? And in the end, Stefanski and Andrew Barry, two smart guys, were like, yeah, we just. He's putting. He's starting too many fires, not putting them out. It's something.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Interesting. So Dylan Gabriel, QB1. No, in all seriousness though, regarding Shador, like, a speeding ticket's not the end of the world.

[Christine Brennan]

Not the end.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's after midnight. Sounds like it was a nice new vehicle. He's got probably a V8, a lot of power. I guess my question, Colin, is like, have you ever worked with someone who you knew was on thin ice? And you're like, man, they're looking for a reason to get rid of that guy. He better not screw up and he makes one misstep and he's gone. Have you ever worked with somebody in that realm?

[Christine Brennan]

Listen, when you fall to the fifth round and are perceived as a first round quarterback, you are on thin ice. And when there's a perception that the owner wanted you drafted, not the gm, you were on perilously thin ice. They're not letting him practice with the ones Dylan Gabriel is. You're on even thinner ice. You can't get in trouble. You can't get in trouble. This is not good. Do not minimize. I can assure you this. Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefanski didn't go. This is super duper. Well, yeah, they rolled their eyes.

[Unknown Speaker]

They probably, you know, kind of were looking at the owner like, see, I told you. But again, this is just a speeding ticket. I'm going to remind you, Dak Prescott had an incident before the draft.

[Jason McIntyre]

Do you remember?

[Unknown Speaker]

Not great. Had an incident and people were like, oh, how can you do that before the draft? Like, where's the awareness?

[Christine Brennan]

But, but Dak Prescott, if you went back to. And I said this, the Dak Prescott stuff I talked about on this show, and you know, he did drop to the fourth round.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Christine Brennan]

For being a very good college quarterback. But Dak Prescott from that moment on has been one of the best leaders, period, at Any position in the NFL. I'm saying it's not the end of the world. But when you stand there. By the way, there were four or five incidents. I saw one piece of video against Nebraska where Shadow did some stuff on the field I didn't love. Like, like there's there. By the way, there are people on the Internet that will find you four or five and six pieces of video. In college where he was a little into Shador Sanders. Not the greatest teammate, Right Again, I stayed away from that. But when I watched, when I watched the legendary draft room, I'm like, oh, dude, a little again. If he's a cornerback. You know my rule on this. I look at point guards and quarterbacks differently. I'm now, I look at it now and I'm just. This may be the last Shadow Sanders segment.

[Unknown Speaker]

I do know.

[Christine Brennan]

Yeah, Yeah, I think it is.

[Unknown Speaker]

Over a speeding ticket.

[Christine Brennan]

Again, you're not listening. It's not a speeding ticket. It's multiple incidents in college. It's the draft room. Just like, just like, you know broadcasters, if your show doesn't get ratings, you're on thin ice.

[Unknown Speaker]

You overlooked all of that during the OTAs when he was crushing.

[Christine Brennan]

No, no, I didn't. I talked about it every day, that it was amazing. I've never overlooked a thing. I've always gone over the top. Positive. J. Mac, let me give you some guidance as an old guy, okay? Very few people in important positions. You're judged every day. I'm judged by management at my company and they like me. Every day doesn't take many screw ups. Narratives change. And that's after success. I mean, look at. Think how great Brady was. Belichick was drafting quarterbacks every other year just in case Garoppolo second round. They couldn't have used another receiver. If you don't think management's talking about. I had a great agent. Years ago, I had an agent, I brought him up yesterday named Nick Khan. Nick Khan. The greatest advice I ever got. He said companies make a decision a year before they tell you. I now own a company. I make decisions six months before I tell anybody. You think upstairs in the building, they're just like. It's just, you know, his foot got stuck on the gas. Not the way it works. I agree.

[Unknown Speaker]

I. This is so weird. You were in. You were a big Shador guy. I was kind of anti. They like Dylan Gabriel, now this. And I find myself. I kind of want to defend Shador a little bit, but it's, it's not indefensible by the way let's say that.

[Christine Brennan]

Let's. Let's not take you or I. Somebody's watching or listening to my show. Love your wife, Great kids, supportive, got your back. You walk in, she's with a mailman. What does it not change everything? I mean, it's not the end of the world. She's not an ax murderer. Infidelity in an instant changes everything. And it's not the end of the world. It happens all the time in relationships. It's something not appropriate. Go ahead.

[Unknown Speaker]

How does he overcome this? Again, It's. It's not a great look. I don't think it's the end of the world.

[Christine Brennan]

You know, I didn't say it was. I said for me, I didn't say it. For me it's different. Yeah, now it's different. Sorry, I'm out. Good luck. Fifth round guy. You know what? I'm going to go to a Reddit board under CC and start posting some Dylan Gabriel's demand.

[Unknown Speaker]

Get on board the hype train, baby. Dylan Gabriel. Here he comes.

[Christine Brennan]

It's the Herd. We're back in a second.

[Unknown Speaker]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Christine Brennan]

All right, you're now entering the Noah bull zone, sponsored by credible Great rates. None of the Bull. A report that LeBron James is, quote, comfortable with the sale of The Lakers. He's 40. He's played 22 seasons. And I'll. And I'll say this about the new ownership group of the Lakers. It's the ownership group of the Dodgers. That ownership group in the front office moved off Cody Bellinger, a National League mvp, Corey Seeger, a World Series mvp, Max Scherzer. They knew Manny Machado was going to go to the Padres, their rival. All right, see ya. They could have paid for all of them. They'll move off stars if Luca doesn't stay in shape. If Luca doesn't defend at a higher level, they'll sign him to the summer, Max. He'll get his 228 million. They'll move off him. They will move off him. Kobe Bryant, in my opinion, had too much control the last four or five years. And LeBron in the last two or three. To me, has too much control. He's the ecosystem of the offense. And Dr. Buss loved family and friends and understood stars. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think the Lakers, the Cowboys, the Bengals have been run like mom and pop shops. Too many friends and family, not interested. I want the best person, not the best last name. That's what I'm looking for. So the Dodgers, with this group, have moved off MVPs. Not. Not just MVPs. World Series MVPs in their 20s, 30s, young 30s, mid 20s. Don't move off guys. They don't care. They prioritize winning. And the Buss family, to their credit, has always understood the value of stars. They've been very good about that. You can go. You can go. You know, Kareem the Bus family didn't have. But Magic Johnson, you know, they understood it. Shaq, Kobe, they get it. LeBron, AD, they get it. Okay? But. But you got to get the right stars. When the Yankees signed John Carlos Stanton, when they've already got Aaron Judge in the building. Duplication. You got injuries with John Carlos Stanton. That's not a smart move. That's just. That's just bad money. He struggled with his health. He's never really been as good as you think. And you had a duplicate player who's better in the building, a power hitter. So to me, it's not just money. They will hold Luca accountable and by the way, the second richest ownership group in the NBA right now is the Dallas Mavericks. And they said, well, the ma. The max he could make with the Mavericks is much greater than the max for the Lakers. And they said, no, no, no, he's getting hurt. He's not in shape. He won't defend. Using the Walter group, and they got a lot more sports properties and a lot more experience If Luca doesn't get in shape. And I don't want to see another video of leg presses. He's a pro athlete. I do leg presses. I do. I'm in radio and television. I do leg presses twice a week. I don't want to see that video. I want to see the results. And I want to see defense. All the great Laker players in my lifetime. Jerry west, elite defender. Kareem, elite defender. LeBron, elite. Kobe in his prime. Shaq, in his prime. Gasol would defend Anthony Davis. Great defend, underrated defender. Maybe the best defender in the league the last two years. Luca, come on. You gotta do better. Gotta do better. All right? I mean, Kobe has as many. All defensive selections. The staff just sent this as Kevin Garnett. I mean, Kobe was. Took great pride in it. And he didn't have to send me videos of, you know, LeBron James doing leg presses or Jerry west pre TikTok or pre IG. He was doing leg presses. Okay? I don't need to see that video. Look, look. He's doing sit ups on an off day. Not interested. Watch the games. Let me see results. J. Mac with the news. No, no, no.

[Unknown Speaker]

Turn on the news.

This is the Herdline news.

A hater. Sorry to get that hater out of my throat there. All right, let's get started. Game 6 tonight in the NBA Finals feels like it's over. Tyrese Halliburton, they're calling him a game time decision. He did take part in yesterday's practice, which was a film session and a walkthrough with light shooting. If you're watching there on FS1, you could see the calf kind of tighten up when he went down there in. In the last game. Colin, it sounds like Halliburton will not play. Here he is talking about his status.

[Tyrese Halliburton]

You have to understand the risks, ask the questions. But I'm a competitor. I want to play. I'm going to do everything in my power to play, and that's just what it is. I'm questionable from time to time throughout the course of the season, and they trust me to make the right decision on my body when the power is in my hands and you know I'm going to try my best to, to do that. But I mean, you understand I want to be out there and you know, that's the plan.

[Unknown Speaker]

Unclear. Colin, if he was doing any running at practice. It sounds like there was some shooting.

[Christine Brennan]

113, 106. OKC.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I don't hate that.

[Christine Brennan]

Lower scoring. The only way they can win is.

[Unknown Speaker]

This is weird, Colin. I know. It's NBA finals. To me this is your third best option on TV tonight. USA Soccer is number one. Obviously it's a massive.

[Christine Brennan]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

USA Saudi. That's top game and you know we can't lose that game. Second is going to be Caitlin Clark, which we'll talk about here shortly. But I, for me, I don't have a lot of people saying, hey Jay, any shot, the Pacers come back. I'm on tons of text chains. People are not.

[Christine Brennan]

If Halliburton was healthy, the series would have some juice. His inactivity or marginal playing, it's over. They're not beating this team two times without him. He, this team is so good at ball pressure on the perimeter that literally the only way to beat them is with ball handling and ball movement. And the best guy arguably in the playoffs has been Halliburton at that. So it's, it's not gonna work.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, it feels over. All right, let's go to the next room which is the wnba. Listen, I know you don't agree with this but the WNBA has announced no suspicion suspensions following the fever sun. What are we calling it? A melee, A kerfuffle, A lot of flagrant fouls, multiple ejections, an eye poke there. Caitlyn Clark got decked. I don't love this, Colin. I'll tell you why in a second. I, I think you gotta set notice. You can't just rough people up like this. Yeah, I don't like this.

[Christine Brennan]

There's a lot of smart people out there whose opinion I read or trust that are like, hey, it's gotta be a, gotta be a suspension for that. It's gotta be just beyond a flagrant or a technical foul.

[Jason McIntyre]

And I.

[Christine Brennan]

That's a legit. We can argue both sides, but I think there's a legitimate argument for messaging. We're gonna suspend you for that. It may not be long two game suspension, but I think you can argue reasonably that it deserves a suspension and I wouldn't push back. You know, not everything I'm definitive on. There are things that I'm like, yeah, either side's fine. And I think in this if you. If you think there should be a suspension, I'm good with that. You can argue that.

[Unknown Speaker]

So here's the other layer to this. So tonight the fever played it expansion team, the Golden State Valkyrie. I don't know. I don't know. I don't follow their team or any of that. But I read about a gambling guy does a write up and he's been following this Golden State team. The number one thing they do is physical defense. They get in your face. Listen. And the league announcing basically oh no suspensions. It's fine. This expect this team to go hard at Caitlin Clark tonight. I'm just putting it out there. I'm not saying there's going to be a fight or anything but they play physical brand of basketball. Caitlin Clark better get her enforcers because this is going to be a theme and I'm excited for the Christine Brennan interview later. I got the book as well. I'm very pro Caitlin Clark, you know that. Colin, I am worried that she's going to become a target in this league. People are jealous. Oh she's our show. She's carrying a legal. Well, I'm going to show her. I don't like some of this stuff that's swirling out there.

[Christine Brennan]

It's fair. It makes me want to watch the game. This game has more juice than the NBA finals. No question.

[Jason McIntyre]

No question.

[Unknown Speaker]

You're not lying. Final story is to major league baseball. Last night had some drama. Dodgers, Padres, great rivalry. Here we go. Let's set the scene. In the ninth inning, Will Smith steps up as a pinch hitter.

[Christine Brennan]

Smith pushes a fly ball right center field. Tatis on the run at the warning track at the wall. It is gone. It's gone and this game is over. They celebrate in front of the plate. A walk off home run for Will Smith. The Dodgers win it the 9th, 4 to 3. I actually thought it was initially caught.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. How did Batiste not cat that I'm.

[Christine Brennan]

Yeah. I mean for a second. This rivalry is so good. They have played now 24 times in the last two years. 13 Dodger wins. I think it's 13 to 11 and this was a go either way game. This is. There are so many great players in this rivalry it is insane how much talent these two teams. We saw these teams play last year and I remember if they play the playoff game and the Dodgers, I remember went with a bullpen game and had. Did they shut him out or they had an incredible. And I remember being just shocked because I thought the momentum had Swung in the Padres favor. So the Dodgers just have a way of always winning the big games in this series. But it's a, it is a star studded 7, 8, 9 elite players in this series minimum.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, Dodgers now 5 and 1 against the Padres this season. Kind of dominant. Colin, I know you don't want me hyping la, but between this Dodgers team that just won the World Series probably going back Lakers new ownership that's going to spend to build around. Luca, you got LAFC as a beast out here in soccer.

[Christine Brennan]

Why wouldn't I want you to hype la? I'm flying there Sunday morning.

[Jason McIntyre]

I'll be there.

[Unknown Speaker]

I know the city awaits your arrival. Oh, by the way, the Rams, I can't think according to you are going to the Super Bowl. The Chargers and Jim Harbaugh, like everything's coming up.

[Christine Brennan]

We've said this outside of usc, all the big brands in Los Angeles, I mean you say what you want about the Lakers, but they're not. I mean they're making the playoffs. The west is very hard.

[Unknown Speaker]

The third scene in the west not just making the playoffs.

[Christine Brennan]

No, it's right now. Los Angeles has really, really good ownership. The Dodgers, the new Laker ownership, Steve Ballmer, they've got. And they've got really good ownership and a lot of cities don't. Stan Kroenke, obviously Spanos family's done a good job. Harbaugh and Justin Herbert and two great offensive tackles. They're spending big money now. So a lot of this stuff is. Is how good are your local owners? LA's got really good owners and really shrewd front offices.

[Unknown Speaker]

The New York teams. The jets owner is one of the worst in the league. Mara stepped in it recently. James Dolan firing Thibodeau. By the way, I read this long Knicks piece last night. Oh my gosh, this Knicks situation is terrible right now.

[Christine Brennan]

I think we read the same piece.

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't know if we'll talk about it later, but New York, New York.

[Jason McIntyre]

J. Mack with the news.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news.

[Christine Brennan]

So again, the Caitlin Clark stuff is fascinating and I've said this before. You can tell me you respect somebody, but you respect somebody. I don't want lip service. How do you treat him? Do you treat him as an equal? And I've said from the very beginning with the wnba, if you want to respect them, then judge them like men. They're great, talented, competitive, intense athletes. Stop pandering. Put the pom poms down Take down the protective shield. Caitlin Clark is tough. She got a lot of Larry Bird. She is feisty. So there, there's a video that made the Internet. It was yesterday. And you could read what Caitlin Clark was saying, right? And she got a little blowback on that because at one point she said, hey, I can do what I want. And everybody took that poorly. They're like, look, I read an article this Morning. She's telling J.C. sheldon the NBA, the WNBA's got her back. No, she's not. That's not what she's saying. She's saying like Larry Bird did when somebody got into his face. Okay, who's playing for second place in the three point shooting contest? I'm going to do whatever I want. Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Shaq. I'm going to do whatever I want. That didn't mean the WNBA or the NBA has the athletes back. Folks, if you could have had this same Internet lip reading quality with MJ and Bird. I saw MJ and Bird after their retirement. It was a few years ago. They met at a game in the tunnel and they greeted each other with smiles and MF's. That's how they talked. And that is how athletes talk. Cocky and confident is the language of competition. Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Premier League, NFL, NBA guys drop F bombs at each other and golf the next week at each other's charity. That's Caitlin Clark. Stop treating this differently than you would treat a male athlete if you could read lips with those players. Don't treat them differently. And I said this yesterday. I have never been a huge WNBA fan, but I've gone to games and I followed it. The quality of play over the last 10 years. Go look at the stats on the analytics. Bigger, stronger, faster, jump better. It'll never be a vertical league like the NBA, but this whole thing. Well, you know what she said, I see these articles. She's saying, hey, the wnba, I can do what I want. I would argue the opposite is true. The WNBA mangled her first year, gave her a tougher schedule to start the season. Wnba, we'd argue, doesn't have her back enough. Christine Brennan on the show, that's what she's arguing. What she's doing is cocky and confident and self assured. And it's great. It's great for Caitlin, it's great for basketball players. You'll see college kids doing it. Soccer, UFC swearing confidence over the top is. That is the language of competition. From Silicon Valley to Wall street, venture capital and the wnba. And I'm here for it. AJ Pruszynski, by the way, here's Caitlin Clark. She is a trash talker. Much more than I thought. But you're hearing it and reading it now. Here's Caitlin Clark on her trash talking.

[Caitlin Clark]

Everybody knows that's how I play. Like I want the crowd behind me. Like they love when I get into it with them too. Like they're here for a show and like that's what I try to give them every single night. That's what we try to give them every single night. And that's what makes it fun. This place is basically full and there's so many young girls and young boys and adults and older men that you know this might be their first WNBA game ever. And like, you want to perform for them.

[Christine Brennan]

Love it. You go Dodgers, Padres, Albert Breer. We're just starting and Aaron Rodgers is talking to somebody at FS1. It's the herd.

[Unknown Speaker]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific.

[Jason McIntyre]

Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

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[Jason McIntyre]

End of the season. There's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs.

[Christine Brennan]

Only one player that can call themselves.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Christine Brennan]

Well, she's written seven the best selling author seven different books. One of her sports books, Inside Edge is considered One of the 100 best sports books ever written. Sixteen of the last winter and Summer Olympics. She's been to all, all of them. Award winning national author and Christine Brennan now is joining us. She has a new book, I just started reading it last night on her game. Caitlin Clark, the Revolution in Women's Sports. You've covered a lot of women's basketball. That book is available in July, early July. And again, I just got a sneak peek last night and started diving into it. So I was pretty critical. And you have as well, with the wnba. I mean, when they opened up with New York and Connecticut, I'm like, people, give this lady a break. This is rough. But I will be honest, I thought she would be a star. Can I defend the WNBA last year and say, hey, they didn't know she was going to become Tiger woods with merchandise. Could I defend the wnba or did they just. Christine, did they just kind of butcher her first year?

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, Colin, I think there were signs of what was coming and I think those signs were missed. When you look at, as so many of us did, watching her, you know, from home, right. And watching that junior year start to develop, obviously going to the Final Four, taking an Iowa team that no one predicted would go that far, then to the final game, losing of course to LSU. The logo threes, the 41 point games, the triple doubles, just really the high wire act, right. Caitlin Clark is a basketball player for sure, but she's really an entertainer. And that was clear, I think, to many of us. And then the senior year where you've got people lined up in 18, 19, 20,000 arenas, seat arenas in, you know, at Maryland and Ohio State and in the, in January, you know, for hours waiting to get in to see her play, she's barnstorming right around the country, or at least around a good chunk of it. I think the signs were there that this was a huge deal. And as I report in the book and talk about this issue, and I do have a lot on this topic in the book, you know, I think that there was probably a thought within the wnba, which I really covered from the get go, that could this be possible? You know, the WNBA was basically ignored by the male dominated mainstream sports media for years. And you know, that's, that's one of the realities of our sports world. Well, I'm wondering if it was just something like, oh, could this possibly carry over? Obviously it carried over. It has been an extraordinary story that you've covered, that I've covered, so many of us have. And I think, yes, I think you could see something was coming. And I'm not so sure that the wnba. In fact, I am sure the WNBA was not prepared for the magnitude of the moment.

[Christine Brennan]

So Chris Broussard said something yesterday or the day before on FS1, and Chris said it actually was a bit beneficial that her skirmishes were not by African American WNBA players because we got into this whole racial stuff. And Chris said, no, she's a trash talker. Nobody likes her. Off the Indiana Fever. And I thought it was an interesting, whether that's right or not, I thought it was an interesting take. Is that when there was a lot of talk early about Angel Reese and kind of a racial component, did you buy that? Did you think that was a fair story?

[Colin Cowherd]

Certainly the issue of race is a big deal in this story. And I delve into that with wonderful voices, black and white, great leaders, thought leaders like Dr. Harry Edwards, of course, who was the impetus for the 1968 Mexico City Black Power Salute. Other voices, Brianna Scurry. You know, I think it's very important to deal with that. I think we'd be naive, you and I talking, if we didn't realize and of course understand, as Chris would say and did say that clearly that there are those issues involved. You know, the Kennedy Carter hip check, which I go into in depth because that, of course, is last season and was such a, a huge moment not just with the wnba, frankly, Colin, but in our culture. You know, people are talking about it for days. You know, of course, that was Kennedy Carter, who is black. And the WNBA did not, the referees did not deal with it in the moment, just like the one with Marina Mabry, of course, who's white. So you've got two of these kind of blindside, in fact, not kind of blindsiding situations of the person who is the biggest economic driver in the wnba, one white, one black. But yes, you cannot take race out of this conversation, nor should we take race out of this conversation because there's so many elements of this story that do involve a 74% black league that never got these players, never got their due, never. I fought for it, I've written about it, I talked about it. And people will ignore them for decades. And thankfully they're not ignoring them now. Obviously, some of what we're seeing is stuff that we would really rather not see.

[Christine Brennan]

You know, it's listening to you, Christine Brennan joining it for the radio audience. The Game Is the book is, excuse me, on her Game, Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports. It sounds like you think the WNBA is again making a mistake by not at least sending a message and suspending the young lady that ran her over yesterday. Am I right in interpreting that? Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes, you are. You know, we got some interesting data a couple of weeks ago when Caitlin Clark was injured. Missed those five games, gone about three weeks. The USA Today, my colleague Jeff Zelgood, actually reported that the TV attendance for the entire TV audience for the entire league, not just the Indiana Fever, but the entire league TV audience, dropped more than 50%. That means that more than half of the TV audience for the WNBA disappeared when Caitlin Clark was gone.

[Christine Brennan]

Crazy.

[Colin Cowherd]

I covered Tiger the length of his career. We never saw those numbers with Tiger. We saw big drops when Tiger was gone. Michael Jordan, I looked nowhere near those kind of drops. So this athlete, Caitlin Clark, is so important to the financial future of the WNBA at the time. By the way, as you know that the cba, the collective bargaining agreement is open and will be being negotiated. This is a key moment for the WNBA in terms of salaries and tv. And the four times now that the TV contract is four times more than it was before. That's a wonderful development. Caitlin Clark is really the engine here, driving all of it. And now you have this data. And I know that a lot of people don't like that. Facts are facts. Numbers are numbers. That's it. And for me, the whole reason I even looked at this story as I did, wrote a few columns for USA Today and then eventually had a book deal. But even before then, I realized, having covered sports for a long time, Colin, that I never thought that I would see arenas packed to the rafters and TV ratings more than the men. As we know, 4 million more for the women's final in the NCAA championship in 24 than the men the next night because of Caitlin Clark. All of these things that we would see arenas having to be games being moved to bigger arenas and that we would be talking about a female athlete. Never in my lifetime did I think I would see that. And I think that's what makes this so remarkable and so different from another phenom coming into a sport. The magnitude for her and what she means to the W. And the WNBA. You know, we talk about Tiger. There was golf, you know, and Tiger did, of course, lift golf. But golf had already had Arnie and Jack and Tom Watson and. And so many others. And even going way before that. The NBA obviously needed the boost of Bird of magic. But it had also had, you know, of course, great names from the past. Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, those great teams, the Celtics and others. So what I guess I'm saying is that the WNBA needed this more than any other of the sports that we kind of try to compare Caitlin to with those great phenoms lifting a sport. She is even more important to her sport than those guys were to theirs.

[Christine Brennan]

This is. Rick Bucher mentioned this yesterday. I think Stephen ate it as well. That, you know, we're. We're playing the victim thing with the skirmish a little hot. She is a trash talker. She's Larry Bird. And by the way, I, I don't know. I. I never am going to assume you've ever watched anything. But my take on this whole thing is if you respect women, then let's treat them more like guys. Basketball. They're gonna fight, they're gonna flagrant, they're gonna technical, they're gonna swear, they're gonna be inappropriate. That's how this thing works. Basketball, the WNBA is not a vertical league. It has been chippy for 20 years. It is a chippy. It's a more linear, more horizontal. They don't do Ja Morant and jump over you. They elbow. These are physical women. And we're finding out they talk trash. And my take is, it is a wonderful thing. But back to my initial point is, are we making her more of a victim? That she's got a little Larry Bird and some of this stuff? Maybe she's got it coming.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh. The last person who wants to be seen as a victim is Caitlin Clark. Obviously. I spent a lot of time around the team and by the way, I disagree with Chris on that point about that. They hate her or don't like her. They love her. They love her. And some of the new players they brought in wanted to come. Right. They saw what was going on in Indiana. They saw the opportunities to do the deals and go to the supermarket and the gas station and whatever and meet people and get the. Whatever the fee is for that, the honorarium. That Caitlin can't do all that stuff. So there's a lot of people who like Caitlin Clark a lot, but she is a trash talker. Absolutely. They had to. They had the de escalation committee last year to drag her away from trouble when she was close to getting the seventh technical. That would have meant she would have had to sit out a game. Oh, yeah. She's feisty, she's tough, she's strong. The way she revs up a crowd. And people love her for that. Colin. So I agree with you. I think there's absolutely no reason to coddle these athletes. I certainly, when the questions I ask, I'm not coddling Them. If I'm going to ask a man that question, a male athlete, I will ask a female athlete. Obviously that was something that people got mad about last year. That's journalism 101 to me. And yes, now Caitlin Clark absolutely can take it. Now the question is though, the cheap shots, the out of the blue you don't see them coming. Cheap shot, the freight train kind of thing of Marina Mabry, is that smart to not have them punished, have that punished by a game or two suspension? I'm, I'm thinking not with what we talked about before Colin, the magnitude of Caitlin Clark and what he meant, what she means for this league at this moment.

[Christine Brennan]

Yeah, no, the league send messages all the time. I mean the NFL will change rules in a season and I, I think I said this earlier. I, I didn't know what to do with it obviously garnered technical. But you can make a compelling argument. They should probably just for messaging. They should probably sit that player down for a game or two just if nothing else, just tone and messaging. My mom would from time to time when I was a kid sit me down just for messaging and it was always very effective. So that leagues have been doing that my entire life. Christine Brennan on her game Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in women's sports, July 8th. It's out. I started it last night, folks. Last year I called her Taylor Swift in basketball shoes. This is, this is a new frontier. This is, it's. This stuff is incredible. Think about this. They outdrew the Pacers and the Pacers are in the finals and the Pacers are the fastest paced NBA team. So they play an incredibly aesthetically pleasing style of basketball and the fever outdraw them. That is in itself remarkable. Christine, final thoughts on the book. And if I, if I'm on the. I don't know if I want to buy it, tell people kind of where you go on this. A lot of stuff I've learned early that I didn't know well, that was my hope.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, it's a journalistic no holds barred look at this time. It's unauthorized and that's a good thing. That means that I am not working with Caitlin. She answered all my questions. She is amazing. She is as good as you'd hope she would be. Looks you in the eye, answers, everything goes on for several minutes. I write in the book Colin. She's 22 going on 40 or 50. Remarkable, especially with the issues and the things that were thrown at her for sure. And she's kept it up again this year and I break A lot of news. More on the Olympic snub. That I think is the worst team selection decision I have ever seen in covering the Olympics since the 80s. Yeah. And a lot of thank you. And, yeah, I mean, it looks worse by the day. Obviously, it's a year old now, so we can move on, but it is. I think people will be fascinated by that a lot. From Caitlin's friends, Kate Martin, Tamika Catchings. Throughout the book, as I mentioned, talking about the start of the wnda, how tough that was, how important that was, I really tried to touch on every important issue of this last year and a half at this extraordinary time in our country. And I do think people who follow her closely will still be very surprised by some of the things in the book and very proud of it. And certainly, again, Caitlin Clark is a worthy story at this time. I mean, truly, I think you can make the case. Not only is she one of our most famous athletes, she's one of our most famous Americans, period. Grandmothers and grandfathers in the produce section would never watch. They're looking for where ION is or whatever on their TV set to make sure that they can watch Caitlin Clark play. And that's a great thing for all those other players to get that attention as well.

[Christine Brennan]

Christine, thank you so much. Good seeing you again.

[Colin Cowherd]

You too, Colin. Thank you.

[Christine Brennan]

That's interesting when she. Because I remember when they didn't put her on the Olympic team and I said, folks, just get her on the team. What are you doing? And I got a lot of pushback. You're out of touch. You don't understand. I said, here's what I understand. Sometimes an artist gets hot. Martin, you'd know this. You put them. You put them on the tour. Coachella's like, let's get him in. Well, I mean, they've only sold so many records. You put them. You just. Coachella, get him out there in the desert. Is not putting her on the Olympics. I'm glad Twisting Brennan has that take, because I didn't get that at all. The league got a little too precious. Little too precious. All right, J. Mac, where did you land on that one? I. I'm like, put her on the Olympic.

[Unknown Speaker]

The Olympic one?

[Christine Brennan]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, that was goofy. I mean, you know, it goes back. Do you remember Steph Curry when he zoomed past, like, Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook and became, like, a major phenom in the country? Everybody knew Steph Curry. There was jealousy and hate for. For him from Chris Paul and Westbrook. They were supposed to be the next Great stars. And there were anger. I think the same thing happened with Caitlin Clark. She zoomed past everybody in the league, Right. And they were like, whoa, we're putting a rookie on the Olympic team. Let's settle down. Yeah, I, I got the Christine Brennan book. Very excited to read that thing. Yeah. You know, we're all in on Caitlin Clark, Colin. She's a big story. Like huge.

[Christine Brennan]

Yeah, that Olympic thing was really polarizing. And again, and I remember at the time saying, sometimes just don't out think the room. An artist gets hot and athletes get just make, make. Except people go, well, we don't want to create a precedence. Caitlin Clark is the precedents. There are no more. There's never been another Tiger Woods. Rory McElroy's Got Talent, but he doesn't have Tiger's will and force. There are no other like, like. We may never see another Mahomes. Josh Allen's great. So is Lamar Mahomes. Got Andy Reid. We may never see this again. Yeah. Okay. So like a lot of the greatest of all time, we'll never see a basketball player like LeBron. No way. Was it eight straight finals or Wayne Gretzky. Eight straight MVPs. That's never happening again. But we're never going to see that again.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Christine Brennan]

All right. Heard land news around the corner. Back in a second.

[Jason McIntyre]

Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines. Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. BMW didn't just design an electric suv. Every detail of the BMW IX was crafted with passion and precision. With a BMW ix, you'll experience unmatched power, utility, spaciousness, versatility. My favorite feature, cloud based navigation. Monitors charge levels, locates nearby charging stations so I can drive electric with the ultimate ease. BMW lets performance do the talking. And the scouting report is in. Experience the all electric BMW IX and witness dedication in every detail. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders. You've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Herd podcast. I love a good metaphor, so here's one for you. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team, always.

[Christine Brennan]

Sure to raise your spirits.

[Jason McIntyre]

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[Christine Brennan]

Com.

[Jason McIntyre]

Please drink responsibly.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.