Best of The Herd

Summary

The Herd with Colin Cowherd – "Best of The Herd"

Episode Date: August 19, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd
Guests: John Middlekauff, Mark Schlereth, Dan Beyer
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts & The Volume

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Overview

This episode of "The Herd" features Colin Cowherd’s sharp and candid takes on the current state of the NFL and college football as the 2025 season approaches. Major topics include realistic expectations for the Chicago Bears and new QB Caleb Williams, a spirited defense of college football’s shift toward a more NFL-like format, and Colin’s last big pre-season “Herd Hierarchy” ranking the NFL’s top teams. Insights from recurring guests John Middlekauff and Mark Schlereth round out a lively and content-rich show.

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Main Discussion Themes

1. Realistic Expectations for the Chicago Bears and Caleb Williams

• Context: Colin dives into the optimism and hype surrounding rookie QB Caleb Williams and new offensive coordinator Ben Johnson.
• Key Point: Colin stresses that “happiness is tied to expectations” (03:19), urging Bears fans to balance hope with realism in a tough NFC North.
• Win-Loss Exercise: Colin methodically breaks down the Bears’ schedule, giving them generous division splits and home wins against key opponents. Even under an “incredibly optimistic” assumption, he lands at a 9-8 record.
• Division Context:
  • “In a division where Kevin O’Connell and Matt Lafleur and Dan Campbell have already proven they’re elite head coaches... I got 9 and 8.” (06:55)
• Preseason Caution: Dan Beyer and others echo that while “everything you’re looking for” from Williams is present, it’s crucial not to overreact to preseason performances.
  • Dan Beyer: “If you’re a Bears fan, you’re fired up... It looks like a great start. I would just say it’s preseason football.” (08:25)

Notable Quotes

• Colin Cowherd:
  • “Your happiness is directly correlated to your expectations in life.” (03:24)
  • “Nine and eight from positive Uncle Colin. Nine and eight. I think that’s realistic. Maybe a bit positive.” (08:53)

Timestamps

• [03:19] – Setting expectations for Bears fans
• [06:55] – Analysis of NFC North’s coaching landscape
• [08:24] – Dan Beyer’s take on Williams and preseason hype

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2. Why College Football Is Becoming More Like the NFL (And Why That’s Good)

• Colin’s Argument: Responding to a Sports Illustrated headline, Colin makes a passionate case for college football's NFL-style evolution, especially with expanded playoffs and loaded schedules.
• Focus on Content:
  • “College football has always had a big game problem.” (10:13)
  • “If you’re offered Outback Steakhouse or Morton’s Steakhouse, choose the latter. The first one’s fine. The second one’s excellent.” (09:07)
• Examples of New Schedules: He cites Oklahoma, Texas, and Oregon’s 2025 slates—filled with “must-watch games”—as evidence of improvement over “parochial” old rivalries.
• Root for Drama, Not Tradition: While acknowledging personal biases, Colin asserts that more meaningful games and less punishment for “gutters” (losses) will drive better content.
• John Middlekauff’s Counterpoint: Gives space to concerns about small-market programs (Oregon State, Washington State) squeezed out by the new format.
  • “Those programs were in the big conference and they kind of got screwed while they tried. But I guess it’s business.” (16:33)

Notable Quotes

• Colin Cowherd:
  • “College football’s taken away the bumpers from the bowling lanes. Ohio State threw a gutter against Michigan and yet made the playoff. That is a good thing.” (09:36)
  • “If you’re paying players, it’s time. Thank you, God. College football’s taking the bumpers out of your bowling alley.” (13:24)
• John Middlekauff:
  • “I understand the little guy... those programs were in the big conference and they kind of got screwed while they tried. But I guess it’s business. They just weren’t big enough.” (16:33)

Timestamps

• [09:07] – Steakhouse analogy for college football’s upgrades
• [10:13] – The “big game problem”
• [13:24] – Embracing chaos: “throwing gutters”
• [16:00] – John Middlekauff’s “little guy” perspective

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3. Colin’s Final Pre-Season ‘Herd Hierarchy’ NFL Rankings

• Top 10 Teams: Detailed rationale for each spot, accounting for roster moves, coaching changes, division challengers, and preseason injuries.
  • Notable Surprises:
    • Detroit falls to 10 due to losing both top coordinators (21:54).
    • Rams, normally top 3, dropped to 8 over Stafford injury worries.
    • Denver rockets to 4 after elite defensive additions and O-line stability.
  • Top 3:
    • #3 Baltimore: “They do everything well... probably the best run organization along with Kansas City in the National Football League, maybe Philadelphia.” (26:20)
    • #2 Buffalo: “The world’s best football player is Josh Allen... he’s able to do things to extend plays and elevate teammates that nobody else in the sport can do.” (27:01)
    • #1 Philadelphia: Youngest and cheapest defense, great lines, “do everything right” but less dynamic if forced to throw from behind compared to Buffalo or KC.

Notable Quotes

• “I like teams that are quiet in July and August. They have been.” (re: Green Bay, 22:26)
• “No team played more rookies than the Rams last year... but they were also the least penalized team in the league.” (22:53)
• “They not only went out and acquired new players, but really high end players...” (on Denver, 32:05)

Timestamps

• [21:54] – Detroit at #10
• [22:26] – Green Bay context
• [25:49] – Kansas City at #5
• [28:29] – Colin closes out the list and explains why some teams (e.g., Chargers and Bengals) are left out

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4. In-Depth Denver Broncos Breakdown with Mark Schlereth

• Roster Construction: Sean Payton’s willingness to make difficult decisions (e.g., moving on from Russell Wilson despite cap implications) has shaped a more mature and cohesive roster.
• Camp Insights: Mark Schlereth lauds the Broncos' depth, saying their “second and third teamers” outclassed Arizona’s across scrimmages.
• O-Line Focus: Both Colin and Schlereth stress how offensive head coaches rebuild lines; PFF now ranks Denver’s O-line 2nd-best in the NFL.
• Chiefs Left Tackle Josh Simmons:
  • Schlereth: “He was my favorite player coming out of the draft... If that dude’s healthy, I’m telling you what, they got the steal of the draft.” (36:02)
• QB-Fit Discussion: Colin compares the Ben Johnson–Caleb Williams partnership to other legendary but sometimes imperfect coach-QB marriages, advocating for balance between improvisation and discipline.
  • Schlereth: “For me, run the play, improvise when only necessary... You may make two or three big plays, but you’re going to fall to disaster three or four times.” (40:01)
• Commanders Outlook: Optimism around Jaden Daniels and Dan Quinn; Terry McLaurin’s contract situation discussed as a key pivot point.

Notable Quotes

• Mark Schlereth:
  • “He doesn’t care what you think, Colin. He doesn’t care what I think. He knows what he wants and he was able to create exactly what he wanted.” (on Sean Payton, 33:15)
  • “We hoped we could win. This year we know we can win.” (Broncos camp mindset, 33:30)
  • “I wanted to have that in my head... When I watch this guy play, he’s got that kind of footwork as a college player. Most college players don’t. I loved him.” (on Josh Simmons, 36:55)

Timestamps

• [32:05] – Setting up Denver Broncos discussion
• [33:15] – Schlereth on Sean Payton’s roster approach
• [36:02] – Schlereth on Josh Simmons
• [39:04] – QB-coach fit, Ben Johnson & Caleb Williams
• [41:46] – Commanders’ 2025 forecast

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5. Memorable Personal Moment: Mark Schlereth’s New York “Hole-in-the-Wall” Restaurant Story

• Mark Schlereth shares a relatable take on favorite routines and finding consistency, both in food and film.
  • “If I go to a place and I order a meal and I love that meal, I’ll never order anything else off the menu… I love the bolognese.” (44:55)

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Notable Quotes & Highlights (with Timestamps)

• [03:24] Colin: “Your happiness is directly correlated to your expectations in life.”
• [09:36] Colin: “College football’s taken away the bumpers from the bowling lanes. Ohio State threw a gutter against Michigan and yet made the playoff. That is a good thing.”
• [13:24] Colin: “Thank you, God. College football’s taking the bumpers out of your bowling alley.”
• [33:15] Mark Schlereth: “He doesn’t care what you think, Colin... He knows what he wants and he was able to create exactly what he wanted.”
• [36:55] Mark Schlereth: “When I watch this guy play, he’s got that kind of footwork as a college player. Most college players don’t. I loved him.”
• [40:01] Mark Schlereth: “For me, run the play, improvise when only necessary... Otherwise you end up not winning the game but losing it based on that stuff.”

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Episode Structure & Flow

The episode bounces between macro-level trends (college football and the NFL’s changing landscapes), grounded with granular analysis (team breakdowns, coaching impacts, player fits). Colin sets a conversational but direct tone, often inviting co-hosts and guests to challenge or nuance his takes. The “Herd Hierarchy” segment is the episode’s centerpiece, sandwiched between broader discussions on football’s evolving narratives and in-depth guest analysis.

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Summary

For fans seeking perspective before the 2025 football season, this episode offers both Colin’s signature mix of realism and enthusiasm, and practical breakdowns of big storylines: how to frame hope for a hyped franchise QB, why bigger is better for college football, and which NFL teams are truly positioned for a deep playoff run. Mark Schlereth’s detailed O-line and roster insights, paired with personal anecdotes, round out an episode that balances stats, storytelling, and sports wisdom.

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Useful for listeners who missed the show: This summary covers all major talking points, notable moments, and key arguments, with clear attributions and timestamps for further exploration.

Transcript

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch us live every.

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This is the Best of Them Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, here we go. It is a Tuesday, and there is a lot to talk about. We're live, we're in la. It's the Herd one hour from now because I'm doing the rest of this week, right? Then Lil Vacadem, we're coming back for six months. I'm gonna do a herd hierarchy one hour from now. And this is kind of how I see the season going to be the last big one, a herd hierarchy before the season. Telling you who I think are the 10 best teams. A lot of familiar faces at the top. Some really good teams who I like and maybe don't like as much as I thought are out. John Middelkopf joining us again today. John, you and I did an exercise last night on a podcast and I'm going to do that again for the television audience about the Chicago Bears. And I think you and I agree, and we know this in life, your happiness is directly correlated to, to your expectations in life. Like what, what do you expect? And I'll give you an example. Start the show with this. Last year, Denver won 10 games and people are like, an amazing season. The Bengals won nine, one fewer and people are like, do we got to fire the coach? I mean, we're keeping Burrow and Jamar Chase. We got to get rid of everybody. Well, the expectations for Denver, rookie quarterback Sean Payton in a rebuild, pretty low in that division with Harbaugh and Andy Reid, they won 10 games. You'd have thought they, they lost a Super Bowl. They got just this close since he won nine. Let's get rid of everybody, right? Happiness is tied to expectations. So I saw a headline this morning. Caleb Williams looks like a different quarterback in Ben Johnson's new offense. It's the preseason. Last year, the Jags, the Titans, the jets and the Bears went undefeated in the preseason. Okay, settle down. So let's just, let's do a hard count here. Let's take the Bears schedule and I'm going to be optimistic, Colin. So I'm going to give Chicago a split in division. They win one and lose one with the Packers. They split with the Lions. They split with the vikings, they went 1 and 5 against those teams last year, and they're already a road dog. They're already a home dog in Week 1 against Minnesota. They're a dog at home against Minnesota. I'm going to give them a split, three and three. I'm incredibly optimistic. They just don't. They don't do well in division. I'm going to give them a split. I'm also going to give them four more wins. Hosting Dallas, hosting New Orleans, hosting the Giants and hosting Cleveland. No upsets. They win all of them. So now I got them at 7 and 3. But I'm also going to say they're going to lose at Washington, at Baltimore, at Philly and at San Francisco. So now we're at 7 and 7 and again, I gave them a split in Division. They're 7 and 7 with three games left. I'll continue my optimism. Three games left on the schedule now at Las Vegas. I'll give them a win, but they may go in as an underdog. At Cincinnati, they lose to Joe Burrow. That's reasonable. And I'll have him beating Pittsburgh at home in a close game. I think Pittsburgh's got a really good roster. You know what that gives the Bears, being incredibly optimistic? 9 and 8 in a division where Kevin O' Connell and Matt LaFleur and Dan Campbell have already proven they're elite head coaches. Two of them are scheme guys, one of them's a culture guy. They're all really, really elite. We don't know that about Ben Johnson. So I got nine and eight, by the way. Two times in the last 12 seasons have they been.500 in division, and I'll give them that. They've done that two times in 12 years. By the way, they've only hit nine wins once in 12 years, and I'm giving it to them. So giving them wins that are not in the last decade plus guaranteed, you know, as a home favorite, I'm giving them Dallas, New Orleans, New York and Cleveland. I actually think North New York's defensive line is going to be a problem, and the Giants are going to end up being one of those teams that plays a spoiler throughout the season because they're just going to suffocate some offensive lines that are banged up for not that very good. So again, expectations, if you go 9 and 8, that that means you probably split in a incredibly highly functional division. You just don't do that. So, yes, they beat the Bills, yes, Caleb Williams looked good, and yes, Matt Hasselbeck yesterday on the show Was cautiously optimistic.

[Mark Schlereth]

He looked great.

[Dan Beyer]

I mean, I think it's everything you're looking for. If you're a Bears fan, you're fired up about the head coach, the play caller. This is a division that has quarterback whisperers and Chicago hasn't had theirs. Now they have it. It looks like a great start. I would just say it's preseason football, so I'm not going to critic because it's the preseason. This is a. This is a great start. It was a great outing. There's been some up and down reporting about him in this game against the Bills. He looked fantastic.

[Colin Cowherd]

Nine and eight from positive Uncle Colin. Nine and eight. I think that's realistic. Maybe a bit positive. Tough division, good coaches everywhere, some automatic Ls on the road. I think you beat Dallas, Saints, Giants, Cleveland at home, 9 and 8. Let's be realistic. Otherwise you're going to be miserable all year. I'll say so. I saw a headline, and a lot of times headlines don't match the story. But I'm always interested when headline writers like to get your attention. So Sports Illustrated, the headline, why College Football is emulating the NFL. And I know 90% of you college football diehards, and I am one, don't like that headline. You don't like that headline. I don't want to give you advice in life. I have a lot of opinions. If I ever go speak to young people, I'm like, I'm not going to give you any advice because my life isn't your life. My journey is not your journey. But I'll give you an opinion if you're offered Outback Steakhouse or Morton Steakhouse. Choose the latter. The first one's fine. The second one's excellent. Folks, college football has. Has taken away the bumpers from the bowling lanes. Ohio State threw a gutter against Michigan and yet made the playoff. That is a good thing. Go look. I'm going to give you three or four schedules. Go look at Oklahoma schedule because college football always had a big game problem. If you're driving, I'll read it to you. If you're driving around listening. Oklahoma this year plays Michigan, Auburn, Texas, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Bama and lsu. That is seven must watch games. That's before the playoff. If they make it. There'd be four more good ones if they kept winning. Texas, Texas schedule at Ohio State, at Florida, Oklahoma, Georgia, Texas A and M. That is five must watch games. Yeah, I know they're not playing Kansas State. I don't know if I'll sleep at night. That's five must watch games before the playoff. Oregon. They get to play Oregon State, their rival. I covered it for years. Great rivalry. But I get at Penn State, at Iowa, then two traditional rivals, usc, Washington, five must watch Oregon games before the playoff. Root for content if offered multiple steakhouses. Take the best one College football has always had a big game problem. If you go look at Nick Saban's dynasty and I love Nick, but after about year three, he refused to play a road out of conference game. He would make sure he and the athletic director always had a buy before they had to go, like to LSU or Auburn. There was a lot of Citadel and Mercer. At one point, Nick Saban complained, alabama students aren't going to the games. Our games aren't sold out because students aren't dopes and they have social lives and they'll go to the big games. They're not going to the ugly ones. Kids have lives. There's a lot to do in a college campus. Mingle, socialize, drink, party. Nobody wants to watch Bama and Mercer. So college football. Look at these schedules. Now they're in. In fact, I've gone on the air saying, I think you want to take Notre Dame off USC schedule. There's too many landmines. They're so if you, if it's all about winning the natty, but it's not as punitive. Ohio State can lose at Oregon. They can lose at Michigan. Root for drama. Not that parochial Purdue versus Iowa, playing for the giant spittoon. That is at best a local rivalry. You can, you can try to convince yourself it's a regional rivalry. The quality of games, the quality of content in college football is insane. Just go look at Oklahoma schedule. Texas, Oregon, Washington, lsu. I know, I know. Auburn, Alabama won't mean as much. When's the last time Bama and Auburn played and it didn't mean anything out of the state of Alabama? The Cam Newton years. It doesn't mean that much. Yes, college football may even expand it to 20 playoff teams. Maybe it's because of what I do for a living. I root for interesting. I root for better content. If I go on Netflix, if I turn on Fox or NBC, I just want the best content. I get over the local rivalry. I grew up in Washington State, right? Like I was a Husky fan. I don't need to see Washington play Cal or Arizona ever again. I'm going to be okay now. I get Washington, Penn State. Plus I get. I can still play in Oregon. I can still play in sc, but I got Washington, Michigan. I Want to go to the. I want to go to the Iowa game. I get new fun stuff, but when I read that Sports Illustrated headline, oh, it's going to emulate the NFL. Thank you, God. College football's taking the bumpers out of your bowling alley. Okay, you're going to throw some gutters now. You're going to have bad games because you don't have Mercer coming up. Oh, God, we play lsu and you're going to get blown out and it'll be okay. It'll be fine. Go ask. Ohio State lost as a 20 point favorite. What did they go in as, like a four seed to the tournament? I mean, God, they went in as a. A higher seed. If you're good, it's all that matters. And it didn't used to be that way. You could be good, but did you schedule right? Did you have enough buys? Did you play any difficult road game? All that stuff's done. It's over. Yes. I want it to look and feel a little bit more like the NFL. If you're paying players, it's time. All right. Ohio State, by the way, was an eight seed. Thanks for reminding me. An eight seed. That's why the NFL playoffs are fun. You just never quite know who's going to win. You had a feeling it'd be Brady or Mahomes. Never quite know. Chiefs have been blown out twice in the Super Bowl. You never, you're never quite sure. You could have looked at Saban's Alabama schedule and go, okay, those two games, they'll only be a field goal favorite, but ones at home, they'll win for sure. If they lose that game, they'll still get in. That's not the way you want it. I mean, I look at Oklahoma schedule, I don't know what I'm going to get. They may lose three games and still get into the playoffs. I mean, look at that thing. I'm not even counting other games, like the Missouri, Oklahoma game, which could be great. John and I kind of disagree on that traditional stuff. He went to Fresno State. It's a powerhouse. So he loves those big regional games. I'm not. I'm a non traditionalist. We didn't go to church. Child of divorce didn't have like that perfect white picket thing. So I'm not, I'm not a traditionalist. So I know I have some confirmation bias and some life bias. I know that I grew up going.

[John Middelkopf]

To Memorial Stadium with my dad watching Cal. So I'm not acting like Cal is Alabama or Ohio State. And no one is complaining about watching Ohio State Texas or Texas Georgia or Ohio State Oregon. But what about Washington State? A program that has tried. Oregon State, A program that has tried. You know who I sc, obviously. Big brand, no doubt. What about ucla? I mean, do they really care about football? And they got to benefit from it. So I understand the little guy at Oregon State and Washington State. Fresno State's always been a, you know, a small.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[John Middelkopf]

Market program, but those, those programs were in the big conference and they kind of got screwed while they tried. But I guess it's business. They just weren't big enough.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's like Major League Baseball wants to do realignment. People say, I'm not comfortable with it. Guys, sports is a business. No business stands. Amazon Meta. You can't stand pat. You've got the. By the way, if you look at what happened to boxing, why did UFC take it over? Because boxing was poorly run. Why are we seeing all these changes in college football? Because college football did not have a CEO. It was poorly run. If you're well run, there won't be major changes. Baseball was poorly run under Bud Selig. Rob Manfred steps in. He's got to make multiple changes because attendance goes down and the game goes down and merchandise goes down. So Rob Manfred's like, okay, start at second base, extra innings, speed the game up, get rid of the D, double down. Pitchers don't hit. Rob Manfred had to correct why boxing died. Poorly run. College football changes poorly run. If you're not poorly run, you don't have to make drastic changes.

[John Middelkopf]

You do need underdogs, though, right? The Yankees can't play the Yankees.

[Colin Cowherd]

Conor McGregor can't fight underdogs. By the way, in the Big Ten, Iowa's an underdog now. They used to be an underdog six times. Now they're an underdog nine times.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Okay, be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Mark Schlereth]

He's Mike Carmen. I'm Dan Byard. We have a fantasy football podcast called I Want your Flexed.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right, Dan. Every week we're gonna scour the waiver wire to find the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup. Sits, starts fantasy football players rankings to get you ready to to dominate the competition.

[Mark Schlereth]

Listen to I Want yout Flex with Mike Carmen and me, Dan Beyer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Herd hierarchy time is now. Let's go the top 10 NFL teams according to college number 10, Detroit lost.

[Colin Cowherd]

Both coordinators who were excellent. Lost a couple of their best offensive linemen on the interior. That's an issue. That's why they addressed it in this draft. They've already had injuries in this preseason and so I they're the fourth NFL team to lose both coordinators in the last 25 years. It's hard. Go ask Philadelphia. And especially when they're elite coordinators that get head coaching jobs. So the division's better. Lost their coordinators. I have Detroit at number 10.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Number nine, Green Bay.

[Colin Cowherd]

Very quiet camp now. Jordan Love struggled in the division last year. He was one in five. Only beat the Bears barely. So that's a little concerning. But they upgraded their receiving core. I you know, they've they've added some nice pieces, not necessarily game changers, although they improve the interior of their offensive line and I just think they've had a quiet camp. I'm not worried about the Jordan Love left hand injury at all. I think this is a well run operation. I like teams that are quiet in July and August. They have been. I have them at nine. Number eight, the Rams. This is I would have them much higher. I'd have them two or three. But the Matt Stafford injury is concerning. No team played more rookies than the Rams last year, which you'd think is a bad thing. But they were also the least penalized team in the league. They have a smart, young, hyper aggressive defense that will be the key to their team. Not Matt Stafford, but you got to have Stafford on the field. They're not particularly strong at backup. The division. Solid Rams at number eight.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Number seven.

[Colin Cowherd]

The commanders. I may have them higher. I don't like the Terry McLaurin vibe. I think you have to give young quarterbacks dependable weapons. Their offensive line is still okay. Debo will help, but I think, I think the Giants could be a tough, mediocre team. Philadelphia is not going backwards, so I think there's some tough games on the schedule. Back to back playoff teams from last year to no, that's Green Bay. I think Washington overall is going to be good. I do not think they'll end up in the NFC championship, so they may take a step back in how they finish. But I still think they'll be a very viable, fun team to watch in a playoff team. Number six, Seattle. Back to back to back drafts that I like, they are going to rely on that run game. They upgraded their offensive line. Their defense will be in the second year under Mike McDonald. The early schedule is pretty easy for Sam Darnold, who I do believe is a better version of Geno Smith. He's a better athlete, can be a bit reckless, but he's a west coast kid. I think he's comfortable. I think they upgraded offensive coordinator so I just think this a team. If Jackson, Smith and Jacob can become a number one wide receiver. I like their backs. I like their O line. I like, I like their secondary. There's not a lot about Seattle I don't like. And if, if Stafford, by the way, did not play much this year, I already have them winning the division. That could be two wins. Number five, Kansas City. Listen, the last two seasons they've been number 15 in scoring offense. All right, so they're getting old at tight end. Chris Jones is not getting younger. I really like the hierarchy of the franchise, but they're not going to go 11 and oh and one score games. The division's tougher. God, if they could go. If they could go 8 and 4 in one score games, you'd feel great about it. But I think they're built for the postseason. Great coaching, great quarterback, old weapon. But I think they'll get dinged up in the regular season. I have Kansas City. They're still waiting on that Rasheed Rice news on the suspension. That doesn't help because I thought he developed into a volume number one wide receiver. Maybe a lower or tier one, but a one. I have him at five.

[Fox Sports Radio Announcer]

Number four Broncos.

[Colin Cowherd]

Listen, they didn't just add players, they added elite players. Dre Greenlaw, Evan Ingram hung at safety. Last year's defense was good and aggressive. Why would it go backwards? So again, Bo Nicks in a second year I the O line is rated number two according to PFF in preseason. So last year caught us by surprise. This year all their good young players are a year older. In the system of Sean Payton, I have Denver at number four, number three, Baltimore. And they're going to win 75% of their games with Lamar Jackson, number one, total offense last season, top 10 scoring defense. They do everything well. I mean, they really do. They can throw it, they can run it. Special teams defense, culture. I think it's probably the best run organization along with Kansas City in the National Football League, maybe Philadelphia. But what don't they do well? Well, they don't win a lot of playoff games. Okay, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, now Sean Payton and Harbaugh. It's hard in the afc. I have Baltimore at three, number two. But I think the world's best football player is Josh Allen. I'll put Buffalo at 2. Also Buffalo in their division should go 20 against Miami and 2 and oh against the jets and should be a much better team overall than New England. I think they come in with a better seed. James Cook is wrapped up. I think he's a really, really good running back. I don't know if John and I have talked about this. James Cook quietly has become a really nice running back and a weapon. I think they've drafted well. I don't think their roster is overall as good as Baltimore. I don't think it's overall as good as Philadelphia. But I think their quarterback is able to do things to extend plays and elevate teammates that nobody else in the sport can do. I have Buffalo at two, number one. Listen, not only was their defense number one last year, I looked it up this morning. It was the youngest defense in the league and the cheapest. So they do everything right. I, I don't think they're as good at quarterback. I think when you can force Philadelphia to play from behind and you can force them to throw, they're not as dangerous as a Buffalo is forced to throw or a Kansas City is. But again, I've, it's. They do everything well. They GM well, the quarterback well, their line plays incredible. Saquon Barkley has just been jet fuel to an uber talented roster. So there is my herd hierarchy, a couple of teams. Where are the Chargers? I think the Rashawn Slater injury is a real problem. They are a Joe Alt twisted ankle from being in real trouble up front and I still don't trust their receiving core outside of lad McConkey. So I have them at 11, Bengals at 12.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

So there's been sort of widespread agreement that one of the best camps was the Denver Broncos. So and one of the things that's interesting to me, they not only went out and acquired some new players, but really high end players. Hunga is a Pro bowl safety. If healthy Greenlaw is a Pro bowl linebacker. Of healthy Evan Ingram should be a perfect fit with Sean Payton. And this was a team that led the NFL in sacks. And nobody knows the Broncos like Mark Slayer, three time super bowl champ, multiple time Pro Bowler Broncos for several years. Listen, I thought about this driving in today. I thought, you know, if you're Sean Payton, you could say, you know, I'm trying to get my guys ramped up. This young football team, I want them to believe in themselves. But it's not that young. Garrett Bowles isn't young. Cortland Sutton's not young. Greenlaw's not young. They got plenty of older players here. So I really do believe that Sean Payton believes this is an excellent top to bottom roster. What's impressed you most with the, with the two years of Sean Payton? What has he done that you look at and go, man, that was fast. I didn't think they'd do that. What would that be?

[Mark Schlereth]

Yeah, well, I think who won? He doesn't care what you think, Colin. He doesn't care what I think. He knows what he wants and he was able to create exactly what he wanted. One of the things, the big narratives in Colorado was, well, we should keep Russell Wilson because you can't afford that cap. Hit like you'll never be able to build a football team. Sean Payton does not care. He's like, that's not the direction of this franchise. That's not where I want to go. We can't win with that guy playing quarterback. And I don't care if we incur a huge, huge Cap hit. We're going to get the right guys in this franchise. I've talked to Sean during training camp. I've talked to Greg Penner, the owner. And the difference between last year and this year was last year we hoped we could win. This year we know we can win. And one of the big moves we made, even if it was a popular player, we got rid of popular players that weren't the right guys, Guys that want to be here, guys that want to contribute, guys that want to work hard, guys that want to sacrifice for one another. That's how we're building this roster. And when you start looking at this roster top to bottom, and I've been at both scrimmage, you know, I've been at the scrimmages. They scrimmage. San Francisco. I wasn't out in San Francisco, but I was at the team scrimmage between Arizona. The difference between the Broncos second and third teamers in Arizona, second third teamers. You can see the level of, of commitment they have made and the level of talent that they have in their backup players. So you can have an injury or two along that, you know, along that football team, and they're still going to be able to perform because they've got a very, very deep football team.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, one of the I've, I've been saying this for years is offensive coaches are better rebuilding O lines. PFF has their O line as second best in the league. Dan Campbell's an offensive coach. He's got a great o line. Sean McVeigh has rebooted his offensive line multiple times. Andy Reid, this will be his third rebuild. They're interesting because the two Super Bowls, Kansas City's got waxed in. They couldn't protect Mahomes. They went and got Josh Simmons. He was an Ohio State kid. Injuries, you tell me, like, if he's not good against Denver and their pass rush, Kansas City's in trouble. What do you make? I think this is a really, you know, end of the first round mark is, is no man's land in the draft. Nobody wants to be there. Got pay a first round price. It's a second round player. What do you make of Josh Simmons? The Buckeye now a chief at left tackle. Is it a problem or not?

[Mark Schlereth]

He was my favorite player coming out in the draft. Wow. I studied him. I studied him and that dude dispensed justice. You talk about feet, you talk about hands, you like. I just was like, this was Ty on the doorknob. Honey, don't come in here. I'm watching Josh Simmons film like, it was that good. And then he tore his patella tendon. I think it was around week nine or whatever. I think the Kansas City Chiefs possibly got the steel of the draft. I think that Guy's a top 10 player that they got at 31. He is that good. Athletically gifted. But beyond that, man, one of the things you realize when you study film coming out of college is most of these guys don't have nuance, especially that play. Offensive line and the game, it's just different. The college game is different. Most guys don't know how to use their hands, and. And most guys ultimately don't have great technique because they don't need it. And I watched him. I thought physically he was dominant. I thought he struck guys with his hands, which don't happen very often. And his feet, man, it was like a symphony watching his feet move. When I think of offensive line playing, I always had this kind of symphony in my own head. What I wanted my feet to sound like, right? I'm coming off the ball, it's 19 handoff. I want to get my second step down. My feet sound like that's what they sounded like, right? And I wanted to have that in my head. Or if it's a pass set, what my feet should sound like on a wide. Three technique or a four eye technique versus a three technique or a two technique. Like, I wanted to know exactly what that sounded like in my head. And when I watch this guy play, he's got that kind of footwork as a college player. Most college players don't. I loved him. I mean, I absolutely loved him. And if that dude's healthy, I'm telling you what, they got the steal of the draft.

[Colin Cowherd]

So you know this with John Elway. He had a very good coach in Dan Reeves, but it was a better coach in Mike Shanahan, and a lot of it was just fit. Nobody doubted that Dan Reeves could coach. It's a lot of it's fit and personality. You talked about Sean Payton, Russell Wilson. Personality, style don't fit. I've argued. And you see this sometimes where the artist marries the accountant. And it works, you know, like. And sometimes it doesn't. And I look at Ben Johnson, who I think is more. A little bit more like Kyle Shanahan. Run my damn play. Run my play. And then there's Caleb Williams, who I think has a little Brett Favre, which is sometimes in chaos. He's better. But you can't live that way in the NFL. And I've said This, I don't think it's a perfect marriage, but I do think it can work if Caleb sort of engulfs the offense. I mean, we've heard it practice. Bad days, good days, getting better, but not every. I mean, Dan Reeves and Elway, both great. It didn't really fit. What do you make of Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams? I think it's an imperfect marriage, but I do think it could work.

[Mark Schlereth]

Yeah, I, I'm with you, Colin. I think one of the big things coming out of college when I studied Caleb Williams is I thought there was too much improvisation. I thought there was too much playing off schedule. And I think you saw that last year. I've said this many times taking sacks in the quarterback driven statistic. He took 68 sacks last year. That's a lot on the quarterback. Most sacks really become play caller and quarterback more than they become offensive line. The first thing, and I've talked to Ben Johnson this offseason, the first thing that Ben Johnson did was, hey, let's reassess what we're doing up front. Let's go out and get ourselves some offensive linemen that can play. I think that's big. But then it becomes play calling. And one of the things you don't see or you don't hear a lot or when we talk about Ben Johnson is the way he's committed to running the football. I'm doing a game, Detroit game a year ago and I'm thinking, man, this guy, like he has got to be the number one like play caller in football from the standpoint of second long and third long run plays. And sure enough, he's right there in the top two or three in football. What he does is he's going to run the ball, create his play action, take some stress and pressure off the quarterback. The thing that Caleb Williams needs to learn is he needs to learn what I call the 70, 30 rule. 70% of the time you need to run the play. We need to be on schedule. When things do break down, then you have to be able to improvise and make a play. That's 30% of the time it does break down. Then go make a play for us. But if you live, and this is to me, Kyler's problem in, in Arizona, Kyler Murray's problem in Arizona is you want to play on a 50, 50 kind of schedule. 50% of the time I want to be free will and make big plays because it's really, it looks good and I'm excited and it gives me energy. But ultimately for an offense, you may make two or three big plays, but what you're going to do is you're going to fall to disaster three or four times and you end up not winning the game but losing it based on that stuff. So for me, run the play, improvise when only necessary. And I think the run game, the trick plays all the things that Ben Johnson does that creates excitement and fluidity in your offense. I believe that's where he's great. So I think he'll get that buy in from Caleb Williams. They'll eliminate some of those sack issues that really were a lot of Caleb Williams problems, not just the offensive line.

[Colin Cowherd]

Finally you, you played for Washington for several years. I don't love the Terry McLaurin situation at all because I think Terry's such a pro. You've done their games before. He's such a productive grown up adult pro at a position sometimes where you get big personality. I think they could be as good as last year but not make the NFC championship because the NFC is better. What is your kind of forecast for the commanders that have suddenly become a really fun team to watch?

[Mark Schlereth]

Yeah, they're a really good team. Obviously. Jaden Daniels is incredible. Dan Quinn has done a phenomenal job out there of reestablishing the culture there. That that was when I played there for Joe Gibbs. It was a crown jewel. And they went through, you know, they went through years in the desert obviously and they're back now. Terry McLaurin is one of those guys that you mentioned, great guy in the community, just a great, great teammate who is unbelievably productive. And when I travel around the league and I've done a bunch of Washington games, when you talk to Coordina around the league, they'll tell you, hey, our number one threat is McLaren. Like that dude just. That dude is. It doesn't matter who the quarterback is. That dude is set for 1100, 1200 yards and, and a bunch of touchdowns. He just, he just a difference maker on the offensive side of the ball. So I believe they're going to get that deal done. He belongs in Washington. He is one of those guys to me that he has gone through that, that dry desert storm, if you will. He's one of the guys that you want to see have some success with the team that drafted him and he's got that opportunity now. I hope they find common ground to pay him because he belongs to me as a Washington commander.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, you're packing up and leaving New York. What was your favorite little place. When you lived in New York and your wife was there, what was your favorite place? Because I, when I, when you, when I spend time in New York, I would always stay within like a six block area and I'd find my places. What was your place in New York? If I said, hey Mark, let's go to lunch, where would it be in New York?

[Mark Schlereth]

Oh, right down the street. I don't even know what the name of the restaurant is. I just know where it's at. It's right, like literally down the block. A little bolognese place that we absolutely love. I know that I know Samba and In Ada are, you know, the waitress and the hostess and they are awesome. And we always sit in their section and we go there probably three times a week. And they're so gracious and so kind and the food is absolutely, like I said, hole in a wall. Absolutely phenomenal. And I don't know about you, Colin, but I'm this way with movies. If, like, if I watch a movie that I like, you know, my wife will go, let's find a movie. And she goes, you've seen this six times. I go, I know I'm not going to be disappointed. I love this movie, right? And if I fall asleep, like if I fall asleep, I can wake up, you know, 20 minutes later, go, oh, this is a great part. Let's get dialed in, right? And it drives her crazy. But I'm the same way when it comes to restaurants. If I go to a place and I order a meal and I love that meal, I'll never order anything else off the menu. I won't go, let me see what else is on the menu. I go, no, I love the bolognese.

[Colin Cowherd]

Guess what?

[Mark Schlereth]

I'm having bolognese. I'm having bolognese again.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep. Now we talked about that earlier today. Mark Schlarrith is, as always, buddy, it's great seeing you. Checking in with you.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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