Best of The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd – "Best of The Herd"

Release Date: June 20, 2025
Host/Authors: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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1. NBA Finals: Oklahoma City Thunder vs. Indiana Pacers

Timestamp: [00:32]

The episode opens with a deep dive into the ongoing NBA Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder (OKC) and the Indiana Pacers. Jason McIntyre expresses surprise and disappointment over OKC's recent blowout loss at home, despite their impressive regular-season record of 29-1 against Eastern teams and a record NBA point differential of +12.9 points per game.

Key Points:

• OKC's Performance: While OKC boasts a strong defense and young energy, their inexperience shows in high-pressure situations. McIntyre highlights variability in player performances, citing "Jalen Williams, 40 points in Game 5, minus 40 in Game 6" ([01:25]). He criticizes the young team for lacking consistency and resilience on the road.

• Indiana's Strength: The Pacers, under coach Rick Carlisle, demonstrate strategic depth and experienced leadership. McIntyre notes, "Indiana, they have the better coach... Pascal Siakam is going to deliver" ([10:20]).

• Young vs. Experienced Teams: The contrast between OKC's youth and Indiana's experience is emphasized. Jalen Rose remarks, "We don't really care. We're not locked in... I didn't see that killer instinct" ([09:19]).

• Game Seven Predictions: McIntyre predicts a strong defensive performance from OKC, leveraging their home advantage and depth, while acknowledging Indiana's coaching and Pascal Siakam’s pivotal role ([17:58]).

Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre: "OKC will get these leads and they play more aggressively with a lead... But age, youth gives you a huge variance" ([01:18]).
• Jalen Rose: "The better team Sunday will win" ([04:37]).
• Rick Carlisle (Indiana Pacers Coach): "This is what it's all about... Opportunity to play in a game like this is a great honor and a great privilege" ([18:43]).

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2. Baseball Rivalry: Dodgers vs. Padres

Timestamp: [04:51]

The discussion shifts to the heated rivalry between the Los Angeles Dodgers and the San Diego Padres, highlighting last night's intense game that featured altercations and high emotions in the ninth inning.

Key Points:

• Incident Overview: A rookie Dodgers pitcher hit Fernando Tatis Jr. on the wrist, leading to dramatic confrontations. McIntyre describes Tatis's reaction: "dramatically crumples to the ground when he got hit on the wrist" ([05:00]).

• Managerial Confrontations: Both teams' managers, Dave Roberts (Dodgers) and Mike Shildt (Padres), exited the dugouts, resulting in heated exchanges. Roberts is quoted saying, "That's what sports fans want. They want you to care" ([08:16]).

• Historical Context: McIntyre reflects nostalgically on past baseball personalities and the current return to "authentic, intense, old school" rivalries ([06:00]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Roberts: "I'm taking starters out of the game... That's why I felt, you know, I took that personal" ([07:49]).
• Jason McIntyre: "This is what sports fans want. They want you to care. They want passion, they want heat, they want intensity" ([08:16]).

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3. Emerging Talent: Cooper Flag in the NBA Draft

Timestamp: [15:45]

A significant portion of the episode is devoted to the rising star Cooper Flag, whose performances have captured the attention of the NBA community.

Key Points:

• Performance Analysis: Cooper Flag is praised for his versatile skill set, outperforming expectations with superior defense, aggression, and comprehensive stats compared to contemporaries like Jason Tatum ([25:16]).

• Comparative Insights: McIntyre likens Flag’s potential to "the best domestic basketball product since Anthony Davis" and predicts a stellar career trajectory, potentially surpassing all-star benchmarks ([16:00]).

• Future Projections: Both hosts express high expectations for Flag, with McIntyre stating, "this draft is going to have a bust... but Cooper Flag is not it" ([25:31]).

Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre: "I am very comfortable saying he's going to be a better player than Jason Tatum eventually and it won't take long" ([25:57]).
• Jalen Rose: "Dominant in college basketball. Dominant. He's gonna be. I'm all in on Cooper Flag. I think he's going to be spectacular" ([25:25]).

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4. Lakers Ownership Transition

Timestamp: [34:18]

The podcast addresses the recent sale of the Los Angeles Lakers to Mark Walter's ownership group, discussing the implications for the franchise’s future.

Key Points:

• Ownership Impact: Colin Cowherd draws parallels between Mark Walter's successful management of the Dodgers and the potential positive changes for the Lakers, highlighting increased financial investment and strategic growth ([35:12]).

• Franchise Evolution: The new ownership is expected to elevate the Lakers' status, leveraging their brand and financial resources to enhance team performance and competitiveness ([36:45]).

Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre: "Imagine the Lakers with the Walter, with the prestige of the franchise now being willing to spend money as much if not more than anyone else in the league" ([35:12]).
• Colin Cowherd: "They go to four World Series, one two made the playoffs every year he's been there. So now imagine the Lakers with the Walter" ([35:12]).

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5. Kevin Durant’s Free Agency Speculations

Timestamp: [34:42]

The hosts delve into the complexities surrounding Kevin Durant’s free agency, exploring potential destinations and factors influencing team interest.

Key Points:

• Possible Destinations: Houston Rockets and Minnesota Timberwolves are highlighted as likely suitors due to their needs and Durant’s fit with these franchises ([37:48]).

• Market Challenges: Durant's perceived lack of prioritization on winning and recent injury concerns have impacted his desirability, making teams hesitant to commit to long-term, high-value contracts ([38:00]).

• Comparative Analysis: Colin contrasts Durant’s situation with past stars, noting that unlike the Brooklyn Nets’ issues with health and chemistry, Durant’s free agency remains a focal point for team strategies ([37:48]).

Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre: "He’s not asking for a max contract. He’s not going to get a five-year deal. I think his messaging sometimes is that he doesn't prioritize winning. He prioritizes having fun and hooping" ([37:48]).
• Colin Cowherd: "Imagine the Lakers with the Walter... it is a very difficult place to play... So the Lakers brand is underachieved for about 10 years and now I think that will change" ([35:12]).

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6. Predictions for Game Seven and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [27:11]

As the episode nears its conclusion, the hosts offer predictions for the decisive Game Seven of the NBA Finals and reflect on the evolving landscape of sports.

Key Points:

• Game Seven Dynamics: McIntyre predicts that both teams will be fatigued, emphasizing the physical and mental toll of the series. He reiterates his confidence in OKC’s defensive prowess and Indiana’s strategic depth ([27:58]).

• Unlikelihood of Current Teams Being "All-Time Greats": Both hosts agree that despite OKC’s achievements, the team lacks the historical legacy and superstar presence traditionally associated with championship dynasties ([29:53]).

• Overall Sports Landscape: McIntyre appreciates the diversity of topics and the resurgence of passionate rivalries, celebrating the current week's dynamic sports events ([14:10]).

Notable Quotes:

• Jason McIntyre: "These two teams... they're another very good team with a chance to win a championship. They're not great" ([10:42]).
• Colin Cowherd: "This team would be in that group [of non-star-laden championship teams]. But even Detroit in '04... this team really... They don't have one guy that you can pencil in for 25 a night" ([29:53]).

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Conclusion

The "Best of The Herd" episode provides an insightful analysis of the NBA Finals, a heated MLB rivalry, emerging basketball talents, significant changes in NBA franchise ownership, and the complexities of star player free agency. Jason McIntyre and Jalen Rose offer a balanced perspective, blending statistical analysis with passionate opinions, making the episode a comprehensive resource for sports enthusiasts.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• Jason McIntyre: "OKC will play very good defense. Doesn't mean they'll win but, But their defense won't look anything like last night" ([17:58]).
• Jalen Rose: "We suck tonight. We have to learn the lessons. And we have one game for everything" ([04:37]).
• Rick Carlisle: "Opportunity to play in a game like this is a great honor and a great privilege" ([19:02]).

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Jason McIntyre]

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

[Jason McIntyre]

It is a Friday and we have lots to talk about. We are live. It is the Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be watching today or listening, a lot of choices out there. Thanks for making us part of your day. J. Mac, I gotta be honest, the difference between OKC at home and on the road last night was staggering. You got, and you got to give Indiana credit back against the wall that that team is, you know, I still like in game seven. I'm going to take OKC. It's at home. But that, that second quarter, there's something about the second quarter at home for Indiana that was a 36 to nine run at one point. Wow.

[Jalen Rose]

Just unbelievably bad basketball by OKC. Colin, I mean, I hope you crush him here. I'm waiting. I'm waiting.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right. The question, the debate on OKC has been this year, are they, are they a great team? I mean, they were 29 and 1 against the east in the regular season. 29 and 1. They won on average by 12.9 points a game, NBA record point differential, suffocating defense. Unbelievable at home. 4th most regular season wins ever. Well, it's been confirmed they're not a great team. They're a very good team. In a finals clinching game, they had their lowest output of the season offensively and the most Turnovers. And again a 36, 9 run by Indy. The hell, OKC is very good. They've got those young legs and young energy and sometimes, you know, man, they, they got a number one score, they got size and they got depth. But age, youth gives you a huge variance. Jalen Williams, 40 points in Game 5, minus 40 in Game 6. That's the variance you get not only as a team collectively, but individual players. So like Chet Holmgren, three times in the Finals alone, he's had fewer than 10 points. Like where, where's his offense? Well, he probably should have stayed in college a year more. He's, he's a young player, still good defensively. But this is what you get at home. OKC will get these leads and they, and they play more aggressively with a lead. They're a little like the Baltimore Ravens, right? Baltimore's got Lamar, they got SGA at home. Does anybody get more blowout wins last couple of years than Baltimore and okc? No. But if they're playing from behind the Ravens and the Thunder, sometimes that offense dries up. And it did last night. So it's not an excuse. I'm not making excuses for Oklahoma City. I was shocked at the blowout loss, but it is a reason. They're the youngest finals team in 48 years and I said I'll take them in game seven. But just like having young kids, you put them in the car for a roadie, things get squirrely. Are we there yet? No, it's game six. Be patient. And it wasn't good. If you look at the home splits, OKC not only is 10 at 2 at home and 500 on the road, they're plus 247 at home and minus 67 on the road. So we've been talking about this. Oklahoma City's bench, great at home, rotational players, great at home. Indiana, they've had these, you know, the T.J. mcConnell's. Those kind of players are unbelievable at home. But history of the NBA is young teams can struggle in the postseason when they get uncomfortable. So again, I'm going to take. I thought they'd win last night. The fact that Halliburton played and played well is shocking. I'm going to get to that after the break. That's and they deserve a ton of credit. I will get more to that. But all the pressure, even though it's at home, all the pressure is going to be on okc. And young players with pressure can shrink. Here's SGA after the humbling loss in Game six.

[Jalen Rose]

The way I see it is we suck tonight. We have to learn the lessons. And we have one game for everything, for everything we've worked for and so do they. And the better team Sunday will win.

[Jason McIntyre]

All right, so I will get to the Pacers, give them their flowers after the break. But I got to talk about once again last night. I don't want to hear Yankees and Red Sox, the best, easily the best baseball rivalry, Padres, Dodgers. And it got feisty again last night in the ninth inning. Now a lot of the crowd had filed out, but in the ninth inning the Dodgers had a rookie pitcher clearly didn't throw at Tatis, who dramatically crumples to the ground when he got hit on the wrist. I get that it hurts, but it's a rookie pitcher making his debut at home. I don't think he threw at him. And the managers come out. Dave Roberts, actually, I think at one point bumped Mike Shield their dog, cussing each other. So I'll be honest, it's baseball at its best. I feel like you saw a lot more of this in the 80s sometimes in a tedious long regular season, intensity and heat equal interest. And we saw the two biggest stories this week have been Caitlin Clark in the scrum and this why sports fans want you to care as much as they do. And the Padres and the Dodgers, this is real. So then in the bottom of that inning, the ninth, the Padres clearly throw in retaliation after this. Tatis getting hit. That's top of the 9th. And they go to the bottom of the 9th and Shohei Ohtani gets plunked on a 30 pitch. 100 miles an hour in the back. Yeah, it hurts. Ohtani, nothing new. He's the best at this too. Acted with class. Went down and shakes the first baseman's hand. Classy organization. He acts with class. Voice of reason. But here's the thing. When I was a kid, baseball had a ton of personality. Reggie Jackson, Pete Rose, Mickey Rivers, Mark Federich, Al Raboski. And the players leaned into it. They leaned into it. Everybody had big personalities. And then something weird happened. The, the sport got very pious and very precious. There's a way to play the game and the unwritten rules. Get out of here. Give me a break. At sports. And all of a sudden, for about a 20 year period, it felt like there were locker room governors and locker room statesmen. They're attacking their own Bryce Harper. And it did not help the sport. Finally, Rob Manfred and the sport started saying, guys, lean into this stuff. It's sports, it's not Congress. There isn't a way to play the game, play it with intensity. Sometimes intensity boils over into throwing it, guys. But this is good for sports. I know, I know you don't want to hear it, but the Dodgers, Padres, it's authentic, it's intense, it's old school, it's feisty, it's a little petty. I'm here for it. And here's Dave Roberts after, as he.

[Dave Roberts]

Comes out and he's yelling at me and staring me down. That bothers me because to be quite frank, that's the last thing I wanted. I'm taking starters out of the game and, you know, trying to, you know, get this game over and get this kid a couple innings. And so that's why I felt, you know, I took that personal.

[Jason McIntyre]

So We've had a very, very interesting week in sports. The Caitlin Clark scrum, fascinating. Everybody was going to be okay. Don't overreact. And again this. When these two teams meet, they throw at each other. Dugout, spill out, managers bump. Everybody's going to be okay. This is what sports fans want. They want you to care. They want passion, they want heat, they want intensity. Dave Roberts is such a nice guy. He's out there finger pointing. And I just think it's great. I think it's great for sports. It's too bad half the fans had already poured out the ninth inning. So, J. Mack, let's. Let's go back to the finals. I was absolutely surprised. I thought it would be a close game. OKC would pull away. Were you surprised that Halliburton played?

[Jalen Rose]

I was stunned. I mean, he didn't play poorly. He was fine.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, he hit his threes.

[Jalen Rose]

But, Colin, something you just said resonated with me. It's like fans care deeply about baseball and the fighting because the players care.

[Jason McIntyre]

Right?

[Jalen Rose]

Care deeply about Caitlin Clark because the players care. Are you seeing that care? And that one. I didn't see that from okc. You could have choked them out. Last night ended the series, and I saw no fire, no brimstone sga. Just walking around like it was a February NBA game. I didn't see that killer instinct. Alex Caruso, I mean, he was -33. Colin.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Jalen Rose]

Where's the energy? Where's the care?

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, here's the thing. If you're a great team, if you're Shaq and Kobe or the MJ Bulls, we have to remember, you know, because. Because this was really in the heart of when I was a young sportscaster, Michael Jordan and the Bulls had closeout games a couple of times against Gary Payton and the Sonics and delivered duds.

[Jalen Rose]

We're up three nothing. I mean, I think that's a little different. This was like, hey, three, two, let's close them out. But I mean, these guys have been pesky.

[Jason McIntyre]

I mean, you have to remember, we tend to romanticize this. Steph Curry and the warriors have had duds in big games. I mean, listen, the warriors could not close out at home. LeBron James and the team that won.

[Jalen Rose]

Like that was the Draymond suspension game.

[Jason McIntyre]

But they got blown out three times in that series. Teams have bad games, and those teams are closer to great teams. What we have now in the NBA, the Celtics team that won, the Denver team that won. These two teams, these are very, very good teams. Just like my Sonics and my blazers in the 70s. Very good teams. They're not great.

[Jalen Rose]

They're not great.

[Jason McIntyre]

No, they're not great. And we've maybe only had four or five great teams. I thought a team that was great, that didn't win a championship was the Barkley Suns that were scoring 125 before the Avalanche of threes. I mean, they were literally changed the game. It was an incredible team to watch. And they didn't win because they faced, you know, it's like Tiger in his prime. They faced Michael Jordan. So these are very good teams. And I think Oklahoma City, because remember, Indy's got a lot of older dudes. Siakam has been around a while. Pascal Siakam, it been around a while. Carlisle, the coach been around a while. Even the coaching staff with OKC is young. And so a indies talents better than anybody wants to admit. They got a more experienced coach. And the truth is there's two things working against OKC last night. They're a very good team. They're not a great team. And they're the youngest team in 48 years in the finals. And you are seeing this wild variant. I mean, I was shocked, but. But OKC in this series has had four or five atrocious quarters. I mean, Michael Jordan's team could lose. I mean, that's. I've seen a couple of second quarters. I mean, just think about that 36 to nine run.

[Jalen Rose]

That is crazy. Let me ask you so in game five, OKC had 27 steals and blocks. They were everywhere. Hellacious defensively. They didn't get their first steal last night until midway through the third quarter. That to me says yes, we don't really care. We're not locked in. We're like, that's just lack of effort, Colin. And if you're not going to put forth the effort, why am I watching? I didn't watch a fourth quarter. I'm like, no.

[Jason McIntyre]

One thing, that one thing that is clear. OKC is not a great offensive team. They're a great defensive team with remarkable depth. So they need the defense to be humming to win. Okay? They're not a team that can play bad defense and win. Like they're not. This is not the Showtime Lakers where you could win 130, 124 regularly, okay? This team wins with defense. Block steals. That generates offense. Indianapolis is a better defensive team than people give them credit for. The Pacers are. But they don't have to play great defense to win. They have amazing offensive nights. OKC is led by defense that has to be great. And when it's not, I mean, they had them. I don't know what the stretch was, but OKC had a stretch last night. It may have been six minutes. They had one field goal or I mean they just dried up.

[Jalen Rose]

Yeah, totally. Let me ask you real quick. The coach, Dagnaut, we kind of criticized him for in game one totally changing his starting lineup. Did you notice last night, small potatoes. They're down 20 at the half. Hey, I'm going to start. Alex Caruso in the second half had not done that. And I felt like that was a bit of a reach. Oh, we need a spark, we need energy. Colin. I just wonder. Carlisle's a better coach. We would agree. Is Dagnal in his head a little bit searching for answers because you know, every move he makes, Carlisle's countering it. It just takes a little while to figure it out. I wonder if he's going to change something for game seven.

[Jason McIntyre]

Listen, we don't get many Game sevens. You can say what you want about ratings in the series. It's gonna be an all timer. We don't get a lot of game Sevens. Can't wait.

[Colin Cowherd]

Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS1 and the iHeartRadio app.

[Jason McIntyre]

Welcome in. It is hour two and is a Friday. J Mac, how lucky are we? I gotta take everybody behind the curtain a little bit here. I don't want to spend too much time on this, but a couple years ago I felt baseball felt before they brought in the pitch clock and the defensive shift, I felt baseball was really stagnant. Had about a 15 year stagnant run and I didn't talk about it a lot and Caitlin Clark hadn't arrived yet. The WNBA and I felt the show was almost too much football. It was like 70% football. And I've never wanted to work at the NFL Network. They do a great job. But I like talking about college football. I like, I like having a lot of different topics. And the fact that the wnba, Caitlin Clark is a regular segment and we monitor the segments. You don't turn away. And the fact that baseball, Dodgers, Padres rivalry four times this week we talked about it is a gift. I feel very, very lucky is that, you know, I love football and if I was a sports talk show host in, in the UK I would talk Premier League 75% of the time. I understand how popular the NFL is, but in the off season for six months, I love the variants. I love having all These topics. So this, this has been a really, really fun week for me and I hope, I think J. Mac feels the same way. I got United States men's national team. I got Caitlin Clark, I got insane Dodger Padre series guys getting plunked. This has been one of my favorite weeks in a long time because we just had so many different things to talk about. And I, I know you think Colin, you talk about NFL. Well, you watch a lot of NFL. That's why I talk a lot of NFL. But this has been a fun week.

[Jalen Rose]

Yeah. And next week we get the NBA draft and the Cooper flag stuff. There's a big time player sliding in the draft. We're expecting Kevin Durant trade. Like it doesn't stop here just because of this week's over.

[Jason McIntyre]

Okay, so there are. We go to a game seven, what do we know we're going to get? Not much. I mean I, I gotta be honest, I did not think OKC was going to get house last night. With Halliburton at 60% here are the five things that I predict will get in order of assuredness. Number one, OKC's defense will be really good. It's holding opponents to 32% from three point range. @ home they have the best defensive rating. They got a lot of fresh legs and bodies. They are a different team energy wise at home. OKC will play very good defense. Doesn't mean they'll win but. But their defense won't look anything like last night. The second thing Rick Carlile's coaching, he's good. I mean the ball movement with him which, which he preaches. They have 705 more passes than OKC in the finals. Their ball movement, the use of their bench, all the levers. Oldest coach in NBA finals history. Rick Carlile will bring his A game. Number three, SGA getting eight plus free throw attempts. He gets more at home and they're good when he gets them. So he is leading the finals at 9.7 free throws a game. And on the road he's a little more meek. At home he gets them eight of the 12 home games this season. In the playoffs he's got Nate plus free throws. So that's number three I think, I think he'll get that. Number four. A guy I really like and have for years. Pascal Siakam will play really, really well. He's a dog man. He's a really good player. 15 plus points in 15 straight playoff games. He's the only Pacer that's given you 10 plus points in every game. And He's a big game player. He's a really good player. So I think Pascal Siakam is going to play well. And I do think number five, Oklahoma City's bench will show up. It doesn't mean it'll be better than Indiana's, but it'll show up.

[Colin Cowherd]

So.

[Jason McIntyre]

So, you know, they're. They're 9 and 2 this postseason when their bench shoots like 45% from the field. And young players who are not star players, young bench players, Indiana or OKC always play much better at home. So most of these feel like I'm very pro Oklahoma City, but I think Indiana's got the better coach and I know Pascal Siakam is going to deliver. I also think you got a couple of days here for Halliburton to rest. The leg doesn't hurt. Little break there. Doesn't hurt. How many minutes he played last night? 23, 24 minutes. Rick Carlisle on game seven Sunday, one game.

[Rick Carlisle]

I mean, this is, this is what it's all about. I mean, this is, you know, this is what you dream about growing up. This kind of opportunity. It's a very difficult place to play. We know that. But you know, this, this is.

[Colin Cowherd]

The.

[Rick Carlisle]

Opportunity to play in a game like this is a great honor and a great privilege.

[Jason McIntyre]

I don't know. 121, 117OKC. I think I get him at home. I gotta believe both teams are gonna be a little tired. It's been a lot. It's a lot of travel. It's a lot of intensity. I mean, you know, one of the things about basketball, it's really. It's great. So in hockey, you got the glass. In baseball, outside of Fenway park, you're separated from fans. Football, you got helmets on. Basketball, the proximity of fans to athletes makes it such a good television product. I mean, the Indiana fans and I. And I really do believe this, especially with younger players. I was thinking about this last night when, say, Occam gets that dunk early and you're on the ground and you got Indiana fans above you. High five and you. It absolutely has to change the body chemistry. I mean, it just has to, like, fans matter so much in basketball, even more in college basketball because the players are younger. But when you watch Indiana's fan base and they are literally like fist bump close to players. Same with okc. I think it's awesome. I love when an NBA player makes a big basket and fives a fan. I. As long as the fan understands you don't open that gate. That is always a Player's decision. If he comes to you, it's good. You don't go to him ever. But it's cool. And watching those Indiana fans last night when hitting those shots and he's on the floor, he can hear you. You're four feet away. You're damn right he can hear you. And it matters. And it's great sports. It just plows through the television. Okay, now I know what you're going to say. Colin, how come you have to bring up Jason Tatum? Here we go. Cooper Flag's Mavericks workout. The word being thrown around is unreal. Better than expected. He's a complete beast. I am very comfortable saying he's going to be a better player than Jason Tatum eventually and it won't take long. Why you got to bring up Jason T. They both went to Duke. That's his comp. That's why. So he's much better defender at this point than Tatum was at this age. Not close. And he's a much more aggressive player and he had better stats everywhere than Tatum and he's younger than Tatum. Points, rebounds, assists, free throw attempts, steals, block it just better across the board. And those are just stats. Aura and Alpha Bruh. Not close. Think about this. This guy, if he didn't reclassify, he would be walking on a high school stage to get his diploma right now. Like this is the best domestic basketball product since Anthony Davis. I don't want to hear about John Morant and Zion. There were all sorts of things about Zion that concern people, like his torque and his injuries. This kid can really play. And there's some, you know, video stuff. They're not, we're not seeing a ton of it, but he is an all time prospect, you know, and I, and I was talking, I think I was talking off the air to Christine Brennan. I think it was off. The air may have been on, but I think it was off. Is that sometimes like Caitlin Clark. Nobody thought she would be this good. Even Gino Oriemma, UConn coach is like, come on, slow down. She's better than we thought. Everybody knew Tiger was special. We didn't think it was going to look like that. Where he was running away from the field at the US Open. LeBron James. Nobody predicted he was going to surpass MJ in every statistical category. Bryce Harper is more what you expect. Bryce Harper was called the best baseball prospect ever. He was an eight time all star. I think he's been a MVP of a National League playoff series. He's eight National League MVP a couple times Eight time all star. That's what you expect. So if I said to you Cooper Flag makes, makes seven, eight all star teams, that would be a really good career for a top prospect. I think he, I think we're looking at a guy that's better than that. That's my take because I watched him. He very. I can't tell you the last time I saw a college player that didn't have really a hole in his game. I don't see what the hole is. And he can shoot, he can defend, he can run. And again you cross your fingers on injuries but I mean again if he had a Bryce Harper career and I guess I'm right, two time NL MVP, eight time All Star. I think, I think Harper's got 344 home runs. I'm crossing my fingers I'm right. Is that. Am I right? How about that? The staff took all these years. Finally respect me. So. So Bryce Harper is like what you would think an all time prospect. You'd be like, I was satisfied with that. Bryce Harper has lived up to it. Sometimes people go above and beyond. I think this kid has a chance to do that. I think he's really, really good. We'll see. For the record, is this more of the video? The video we got. He never missed a shot. So now I will tell you. J. Mac's going to have this. There is one player in this draft. This, this draft is going to have a bust. Every draft does. I, I think I know who the one guy is going to be a bust. I'm. I'm not going to say it. I'm going to let you, I'm going to let you have the story but there's one player where things are not good.

[Jalen Rose]

Yeah. By the way, this Cooper Flag stuff, you remember, I forget who came on our show but someone was like, oh, an NBA computer. Andre Kirilenko. Do you remember? I might have been Paul Pierce, bro. Andre Kirilenko, I think made like an All Star game. Never all NBA. That's a borderline disrespectful.

[Jason McIntyre]

Andre Karolenko. If I'm just thinking it wasn't. I think Cooper flag much better. Much early and much more aggressive and much more polished.

[Jalen Rose]

Dominant in college basketball. Dominant. He's gonna be. I'm all in on Cooper Flag. I think he's going to be spectacular.

[Jason McIntyre]

I will tell you the Maps fan now, honestly, I'll tell you this. People are saying it's a Carlos Boozer. Carlos Boozer compared Flag to Kirolenko. I don't gross I will say this, though. The number two kid in the draft from Rutgers, the guard. The six. Six guard. He. He's going to be a star, too. That. No, no, no. He's not just good. He's a kid. He is. He is a really special prospect.

[Jalen Rose]

Okay? Do you remember Ben Simmons went to lsu? He was supposed to change college basketball.

[Jason McIntyre]

I do.

[Jalen Rose]

Could not get them to the NCAA tournament and we killed him. Harper is on a team with Ace Bailey. Who's going to go top 10. They could not, as a duo, get Rutgers to the NCAA tournament.

[Jason McIntyre]

I know.

[Jalen Rose]

I'm not gonna crush them for that. Dylan Harper's a good player. Let's pump the brakes on him being some kind of massive superstar, okay? Let's just settle down.

[Jason McIntyre]

I didn't say superstar. I said all star.

[Jalen Rose]

What? I mean, come on. All star. Is that the barometer for a number two pick? You go number two. I need more than all star, Colin.

[Jason McIntyre]

Well, what do you need?

[Jalen Rose]

I need all NBA. You're one of the best at your position in the league.

[Jason McIntyre]

You understand? There's five guys on that all NBA first team. And basketball's not football. Guys play for 15 years.

[Jalen Rose]

No, no.

[Jason McIntyre]

Not a lot of guys bowing out.

[Jalen Rose]

That. That matters. You're top 15 in the league. All Star is like a popularity contest. Come. It's like voting for president in your junior high school. Yeah. Who's the cutest girl? Let's just vote for her. She's going to give us a soda machine in the cafeteria. Like that's what the All Star game is. Come on.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, one more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the iHeartRadio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

[Jason McIntyre]

Chris Brusard is now joining us. Cover the NBA since the mid-90s calls. First things first. Yeah, I was saying game sevens are crazy. The. The one or two things I know I'm going to get. OKC's defense will show up. Rick Carlile's coaching will be great. I'm not. I'm not sure I trust anything else. Pascal Sekim usually gives you a pretty consistent game. I mean, let's start with this. Were you surprised that Halberton played and he was that good last night? Because he was pretty good.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. I wasn't surprised that he played. I fully expected that. But he. He did not look injured. And I know he was. I. There's no way they'll lie about an injury like that. But I think it was smart of the pacers to like make it a game time decision. I'm sure they knew. I don't know if they ever thought he wouldn't play, you know, but to leave it out there as a game time decision and put that question out there in the minds of okc. Colin, as good as Indiana was and they were great and they deserve all the credit for last night, I also thought OKC contributed to that performance. Clearly. I mean, they're not that much worse than the Pacers or even on a bad night. And they look like a team that felt like the championship was in their pocket, like they had it, that Indiana was going to fold and that Halliburton either wouldn't play or if he did play, he would be severely compromised and no good. And he was the exact opposite. He looked fine, he moved well. I actually think Colin, the injury made him focus more because he was more aggressive than he's been for most of the playoffs. You know, like I think it made him zero in and say, okay, I really have no room for error tonight. And he ended up having one of his best games of the series.

[Jason McIntyre]

You know, I said this because they won by an average of 12.9 points a game because they had the fourth most wins ever. There were these discussions, are we looking at a great team? And I fell for it with Denver. I totally fell for it. I'm like, they're going to be the Spurs. I think last night confirmed they're not a great team. Great teams aren't different on the road to that level. The great teams, Michael Jordan's Bulls could walk into your place, it didn't matter where or when. Even the Celtics, the Celtics are, you know, the Tatum Celtics, they're sometimes better on the road than at home. This team, the Variants home and away to me illustrates they're another very good team with a chance to win a championship. They're not great.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. And I think that's just one of the many reasons they're not like an all time great team. The guys look at the numbers and the analytics and want to say they're all time great. No, they're the second youngest team ever to reach the finals. There's no way they're an all time great team just because they're that young. And we'll look back, Colin, they have to win more championships. Like when we talk about great teams, we're talking about teams that had runs. The only one off team that was like an all time Great was the 1983 Philly 76ers with Moses Malone and Dr. J. All the other great teams were dynasties. The Lakers in Showtime, Kobe, Shaq, the Jordan Bulls, the Golden State. So this is not an all time great team. And furthermore, Colin. And again, I'm rooting for the Pacers hard. I'm from Indianapolis, one of the many places I'm from. But this Pacers team is giving them all they want. And they don't have one guy that you can pencil in for 25 a night. They don't have one. Their, their, their most reliable score is Pascal Siakam.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Can you imagine if they had a Kevin Durant? If that's the type of team go that OKC was facing. And that Denver team took them seven, gave him all they wanted with two of their best four players. Aaron Gordon, MPJ Michael Porter Jr. Severely compromised by injury. So I think the Denver team in 2023 was better than this OKC team. So yeah, look, I'll salute them if they win the championship. But let's stop it with the all time great team.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, I mean these teams live on their depth. They're both depth teams. The great teams of all time. We didn't talk about, we didn't care much about Shaq and Gobi's depth. We didn't care much about that. When depth is your go to thing, I, you know, I, I think you're a very good team. Let me say this though. I said, and then we'll, then we'll get to a couple other things. Lakers and, and maybe Caitlyn Clark. That if Indiana wins, it will be the strangest team ever think about this. Strangest championship team ever think about this. 21st in cap spending, nobody averaging 20. Obi Toppin started four games all year. He's their third leading scorer. TJ McConnell has become crucial and they have the oldest coach ever. If I wrote those on paper, that sounds like a 500 team in the East. If they win Sunday, is this the most unlikely, strangest championship team ever?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think that's fair. When you say unlikely, I mean four seed. There haven't been many teams, only a couple, you know, Olajuwon and the Rockets. Only a few teams that were lower than third seeds have won championships. So that in and of itself makes them unusual. Halliburton, you know, he's in Nick Wright's club. Superstar. I'm fine with that. But let's keep it real. He's a star. I think he will eventually become a superstar, but he's just a star. And the only. We always think back. The 1979 Seattle SuperSonics the 2004 Detroit Pistons were the only teams to win championships without being kind of star laden or at least led by this super all time great superstar. This team would be in that group. But even Detroit in 04. Chauncey Billups was a blue chip high school and college player. Right. He just was a disappointment. His first beginning of his NBA career. But he was a blue chip talent. Rasheed Wallace at North Carolina was a blue chip talent. You know, like they had guys that were, everyone knew for years, even before the NBA were great talents. This team really, I mean, Pascal Siakam didn't even start playing until he was 17. And Halliburton, you know, nobody really thought he was going to be like a superstar player. And you mentioned it. TJ McConnell and Colin, right now Pascal Siakam is the Finals MVP. If Indiana were to win, TJ McConnell's in the running. I mean I'm.

[Jalen Rose]

He's in the running.

[Colin Cowherd]

He might get a vote depending on what happens in game seven. So this is an unusual team and it signifies a change in the NBA. Yeah, because it's, it's a, it's a team. It is not one, two or even three superstars. It is a true team and some will love it, some will hate it, but It's a different NBA at least this year.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah. Okay. Lakers sell for 10 billion. I think some of that is the new television deal. And the Mark Walters group said, listen, we got guaranteed $300 million checks annual or whatever it's going to be. You know this because of your sourcing in the NBA. And I've been on this for years is they were really becoming closer to the Cincinnati Bengals than they were the New York Yankees. Like they were mom. And popping it like their stories this morning when the Lakers sold, what were your sources saying about the new group?

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, look, everybody loves the new group. And that now you're right, you hit on the head. The Lakers. It was a bit surprising as you start covering the NBA to see this great franchise, the glamour franchise of the league, one of the best franchises in American sports history, was really run like a mom and pop operation. It really was. It is not run anywhere near the way the New York Knicks and, and they run, they end up being much better than the Knicks, but they're run like a mom and pop operation. And now when you bring in Mark Walter and you just look Colin at what he's done with the Dodgers. The Dodgers had not reached the world series in 24 years. When he took over, he takes over and they get great in short order because he was willing to spend money. And even before the Freddie Freemans and Mookie Betts and Shohei Ohtanis, they were spending money with this new group to go get Andre Ether and other big names, you know. So he came in and they've gone to four World Series, one two made the playoffs every year he's been there. So now imagine the Lakers with the weather, with the prestige of the franchise now being willing to spend money as much if not more than anyone else in the league. This is great for Luka Doncic, it's great for Lakers fans and they're going to do everything they can to start winning a bunch of championships. And when you look at what he's done with the Dodgers, it's hard to say he won't get a few.

[Jason McIntyre]

Yeah, and something to remember with the Lakers it is a winter league and outside of Miami, Steve Ballmer has talked about this. When he spent that money, he said am never selling it. But he goes outside of Miami, LA is the first or second choice where players, free agent stars want to play. That's never going to change. So the Lakers brand is underachieved for about 10 years and now I think that will change. Hey, I got to throw this at you. I'm a big Kevin Durant fan, but I said I don't understand the lack of interest. Only two guys in the league averaged 25 a game and shot 40% from three. I love him. He's not asking for a max contract. He's not going to get a five year deal. I think his messaging sometimes is that he doesn't prioritize winning. He prioritizes having fun and hooping. And I think that turns off some really serious front offices. That's the only thing I can come up with. Why there isn't a bigger market, you tell me. Well, why isn't there?

[Colin Cowherd]

I think that's a great point and we've seen it now. Now Brooklyn, I don't really put that on KD because if they had had health, whether it was him or James Harden or Kyrie, then I think that threesome may have been able to win a championship. And then of course Kyrie with the vaccination, so that was beyond his control. But he picks Phoenix. Remember he wanted to go to Phoenix. Phoenix was just a couple of years away from almost winning the championship. They still had Devin Booker and now look at them. And. And then when he has Miami on his list of preferred destinations, why if he goes to Miami, if I'm Phoenix. I want Bam Adebayo or Tyler Hero. Even if they could keep those two and get him, they're not. I don't think they're a championship contending team with Kevin Durant. So he could be in Phoenix east if he goes Miami. So I think people are looking at that like what does he really want? Like you said, he just wants to hoop, he wants to have fun, whatever. Houston obviously can make the best deal for him. He would fit in perfectly. They would absolutely be a contender. But Colin, if I'm the Rockets, I'm sorry, I'm holding out. I'm waiting and holding my assets to try to get Giannis Antetokounmpo. Giannis wants to give Milwaukee a chance, but that could change by the trade deadline and because they have no way to get better, they really don't. Dame Lillard is out. They don't have many control of their draft picks for several years. So I think Giannis will eventually be on the market. If I'm Houston, I'm waiting for him. I think Minnesota is the place to go as far as the market. Colony is about to be 37 years old and he also wants probably a two year extension that's going to be over $100 million. That's what teams I think are looking at combined with. He hasn't really impacted winning for several years now and he's only played 65 or more games once in the last five seasons. So those are all things that have brought Kevin Durant's market down.

[Jason McIntyre]

Chris Broussard Brew it's great seeing you on a Friday. Crush it today on First Things First. Thanks buddy.

[Colin Cowherd]

This is an iHeart podcast.