Best of The Herd

Summary

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The Herd with Colin Cowherd: Best of The Herd

Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Colin Cowherd (with guest Mack Brown)
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Herd dives into the state of the Dallas Cowboys compared to their dynasty years, weighs in on Aaron Rodgers’ preseason absence and the implications for Pittsburgh, and breaks down the philosophy around rookie quarterbacks—especially Caleb Williams and the Chicago Bears. The episode is capped off with a rich conversation between Colin and legendary coach Mack Brown, exploring the pressures and peculiarities of big-time college football, name-image-likeness (NIL), the transfer portal, and what makes certain quarterbacks tick.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Cowboys: Then vs. Now

Timestamps: 02:48–12:32

• Netflix’s Jerry Jones “The Gambler” Special Inspriation:
  Colin uses the new Jerry Jones Netflix special as a lens to compare the Dallas Cowboys of past and present.
• Aggressiveness vs. Reactivity:
  • Jerry Jones in the early ’90s: “He was so aggressive, decisive, and had such a clear plan… made strong, swift decisions—the Herschel Walker trade, never looked back.” (04:16)
  • Contrast with today: Dallas is now defined by contract drama (Dak Prescott, Micah Parsons) and a lack of strong identity.
• The Eagles Are Yesterday’s Cowboys:
  • “The Eagles today are the Cowboys in the Netflix special. Dallas now is reactive. Dallas then was proactive. Philadelphia now, proactive.” (05:48)
  • Eagles’ recent moves (Carson Wentz, Tush Push, Saquon Barkley) are cited as examples of decisiveness.

Colin Cowherd [06:20]:
“You knew he was an All-Pro as a rookie. Do what the Eagles do: sign him early or trade him and get a fortune.”

• Cowboys’ Negotiations:
  • Ineffective contract strategies cost them money and flexibility.
  • “Dak Prescott’s cap hit is bigger than AJ Brown, Saquon Barkley, and Jalen Hurts combined.” (07:44)
• Decisiveness Is Key:
  • “Philadelphia is always making moves… That used to be Jerry.” (08:21)
  • Jerry’s old maverick spirit is contrasted with his current hesitation.
• Modern Cowboys Lack an Identity:
  • The team is still a spectacle, but the results and direction are muddled.
  • “We just don’t like the results.” (09:53)

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2. Aaron Rodgers, Pittsburgh, and Quarterback Psychology

Timestamps: 09:56–13:27

• Rodgers Sitting Preseason Again:
  • Aaron Rodgers will not play in the preseason finale—second year in a row.
  • Context: Steelers face tough early defensive matchups and Rodgers has barely played with new teammates/coaches.
• Rodgers' Statistical Oddity:
  • Sixth-most career starts, but just tied for 25th in fourth-quarter comebacks: “He has fewer than Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Andy Dalton…” (11:08)
• Personality and Performance:
  • Rodgers’ demeanor changes when trailing; more likely to ‘bail’ rather than lead.
  • “Aaron gets dark, he gets moody, his demeanor changes, his facial expressions change.” (11:45)
• Pittsburgh’s Challenges:
  • Shaky offensive line, no run game, no live reps with DK Metcalf or new OC.
  • “41-year-old, shaky O-line, never taken live snaps in a game with the OC or DK Metcalf.” (13:27)
• Rodgers’ Helmet Observation:
  • Light-hearted roast: “That helmet is so outsized…I can see the shadows inside the helmet. He looks like a small plane parked in a Delta hangar.” (13:42)

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3. Rookie Quarterbacks & Bears’ Caleb Williams

Timestamps: 19:57–24:43

• Preseason Snaps for Caleb Williams:
  • Colin supports young QBs playing in preseason for live reps: “I do like young quarterbacks taking snaps.” (19:57)
• Patience and Development:
  • Reminiscing on Troy Aikman’s rough start and organizations showing patience until skills unfold.
  • Modern trend of moving off young QBs quickly (e.g. Rosen for Murray).
• Unique Chicago Situation:
  • Unlike their history, the Bears finally have both a coveted coach (Ben Johnson) and top prospect (Caleb Williams).
  • Colin’s advice: “Just make Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams work. There’s an argument that you just have to make it work…” (22:24)
• Testimony from Camp:
  • Albert Breer: “The day I was there, Caleb Williams looked terrible. There’s no better, there’s no sugar coating it.” (24:02)
  • The staff is intentionally “feeding him through a fire hose,” letting him take early lumps to foster resilience.
  • “They need the snaps because they’ve got to make this work.” (24:42)

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4. Mack Brown Interview: College Football, Quarterbacks, NIL & Golf

Timestamps: 29:15–43:09

On Coaching at Texas and the Challenges

• Texas Job Dynamics:
  • “I think it’s the best job in the country, especially with NIL… you got people that are passionate… pride, not pressure.” (30:38)
  • “When you’re winning, [the AD’s] job is easy; when you’re losing, he doesn’t have a job.” (31:19)

On Arch Manning and Quarterback Pressure

• The Manning Family Influence:
  • “Arch is smart, he’s self-deprecating… he’ll laugh at criticism. He’s really into the guys in that locker room… that’s what’s so critical for a quarterback.” (32:34)
  • “Arch can run, and that will give him a chance… makes those offensive linemen look a lot better.” (33:30)

Bill Belichick Taking Over at UNC

• Pros & Cons for Belichick:
  • “We no longer have amateurism. We have payment scales… so being like the NFL will really help Bill with this transition.” (34:56)
  • “He’s brought in 72 new guys… I think he has a chance to win big and win big fast.” (35:42)

On Player Development & NIL Impact

• NIL and Locker Room Chemistry:
  • “The brand programs… will have the majority of the money… if you can keep recruiting high school guys, you’re fine. But bringing in a lot of transfers is hard for team chemistry.” (37:50)
  • “If you’ve got the money and you buy a team, doesn’t mean you’re going to win. Number one, you’ve got to buy the right ones. Number two, they’ve all got to fit well in that locker room.” (38:38)
  • Memoir of old-school loyalty: “Cedric Benson in the locker room crying… not sure we’re going to have that loyalty at schools bringing in all the transfers now.”

QB Profiles: Klubnik & Drake Maye

• Cade Klubnik (Clemson):
  • “Tough, can run and throw, accurate, confident… gives Clemson a chance to be really, really good.” (36:36)
• Drake Maye (UNC):
  • “He said when he was a kid, he had to fight for food… so competitive… wonderful team leader… I think he’s a quarterback that’s going to win a Super Bowl.” (40:08)

On Retirement, Golf, and Life Perspective

• Life After Football & Golf Wisdom:
  • Mack uses his free time to golf nearly every day, relishing the hobby he couldn’t truly enjoy while coaching.
  • Anecdote from a friend:

    “It costs a lot of money, takes all day, you hit a lot of bad shots and makes you miserable. And as soon as you get through, you can’t wait to get back on the course.”
    (42:25 – Mack Brown)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jerry Jones and courage in ownership:

  “Jerry just didn’t pause... That’s business. Hundred miles an hour. And Jerry knew as an oil catter, a maverick, that you’re not going to go 100 for 100. But it didn’t stop him.”
  (08:27 – Colin Cowherd)

• On the challenge of coaching at Texas:

  “When you’re winning, mine’s easy. When you’re losing, I don’t have a job.”
  (31:19 – Mack Brown, quoting Texas AD)

• On NIL and college program chemistry:

  “We have payment scales... It’s hard to mesh together as a team in a short period of time... I’m not sure we’re going to have that loyalty at schools that are bringing in all the transfers now.”
  (37:47 – Mack Brown)

• On Drake Maye’s competitiveness:

  “He said the tight end beat me in ping pong. And I said, yeah, but I still think you can keep the paddle clean without breaking it. But he is so competitive... He’s a quarterback that’s going to win a Super Bowl.”
  (40:08 – Mack Brown)

• On golf as a post-retirement passion:

  “It costs a lot of money. It takes all day to play. You hit a lot of bad shots and it makes you miserable. As soon as you get through, you can’t wait to get back on the course.”
  (42:25 – Mack Brown)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Cowboys then vs. now / Eagles as model franchise: 02:48–09:55
• Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers’ outlook: 09:56–13:27
• Caleb Williams and philosophy of QB development: 19:57–24:43
• Mack Brown Interview: 29:15–43:09

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Tone and Style

Colin’s commentary remains sharp, direct, and laced with his trademark dry humor, especially while diagnosing dysfunction in Dallas and poking fun at Rodgers’ helmet. The tone with Mack Brown is warm and reverent, with both men sharing honest insight, gentle ribbing, and memorable stories from inside the game.

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Summary Takeaways

• The Cowboys have strayed from their bold roots—today’s Eagles reflect the old Cowboys’ decisiveness and aggression.
• Aaron Rodgers brings intrigue to Pittsburgh, but faces significant hurdles and skepticism from Colin about his in-game demeanor and the fit.
• The Bears are in unfamiliar territory: they have the right coach and (potentially) the right QB, urging an overdue commitment to patience and continuity.
• Mack Brown delivers insider wisdom on modern college football’s shifting landscape, NIL’s double-edged sword, and how intangible traits define great quarterbacks.
• A lighthearted finale on golf and retirement closes the episode on a relatable, personable note.

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Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowher on FOX Sports Radio. Here we go. It's a Wednesday. We are live. We're in Chicago. It is the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be watching or listening, thanks for making us part of your day. John Middelkopf and I here again in turn. So I sat last night, John and I watched several episodes of the Jerry Jones Netflix special, the Gambler, America's Team. Highly entertaining. Took a few notes. I know that's dorky, but I had to take some notes here. And it is wild. First of all, it's another example. We saw this with the Last Dance with Michael Jordan and we see this with Jerry. When you're, when you're creating something special, even if you're Michael Jordan or you have Jimmy Johnson and Aikman, it's hard. It's really, really hard for Michael Jordan all those years getting tackled by the Pistons and the Celtics. But I want to, I want to start, John, with what was and what is with the Dallas Cowboys. So let's start with that. So I read a story this morning. Micah Parsons and the Cowboys headed towards a divorce in a messy contract saga. So I'm watching that Netflix special last night. And what is remarkable, Jerry Jones, at that point, it was almost broke. He spent every penny on the Dallas Cowboys. Jimmy Johnson told me that. I mean, he spent every penny on the Cowboys. And after the first year, they didn't know if they were going to make it, was he going to have to sell the team. But he was so aggressive and so decisive and had such a clear plan. Jerry Jones did that it all worked. He would. He got Aikman and Jimmie Johnson and Emmett Smith and Michael Irvin and Dave wants that. And he was patient. And Jerry's still patient. Sometimes too much. But what you noticed with that Jerry is the aggressiveness, the decisiveness. He made strong, swift decisions. The Herschel Walker trade. And never look back. That's not the Cowboys today, where the Dak Prescott or Micah Parsons contracts engulf camp, engulf the team. And as I was watching that, I thought you know what? You know who the Dallas Cowboys of that era are? They're the Philadelphia Eagles. Now, the Eagles have a brand. The Eagles have the most aggressive gm. The Eagles occasionally make mistakes, rarely whiff, but they're decisive. They don't look back. If they make a move and they don't like it, they move off it. Carson Wentz immediately. They move off. Coaches who win Super Bowls if it's not a good fit. Today, decisive Tush push. Saquon Barkley deal. The Eagles today are the Cowboys in the Netflix special. Dallas now is reactive. Dallas then was proactive. Philadelphia now proactive. They made a deal three days ago. They're always making deals. And yet the Micah Parsons contract saga appears it's not going to end well. You knew he was an all pro as a rookie. Do what the Eagles do. Sign him early or trade him and get a fortune. But the dak. I saw a headline this morning. The Cowboys negotiating tactics have probably cost them approximately $100 million. Think about this Dak. Prescott's cap hit currently is bigger than AJ Brown, Saquon Barkley and Jalen Hurts combined. They don't get deals anymore. Philadelphia gets deals. Philadelphia is always making moves. Philadelphia is decisive. Philadelphia's got a running play they invented. That used to be Jerry. Remember when he pushed back on the NFL like a Pepsi deal and the NFL wanted to sue him? And I mean, Jerry just. He just didn't. Herschel Walker move. Buy this oil well, buy this football team. Fire Texram. Fire the late great Tom Landry. He didn't pause. That's business. Hundred miles an hour. And Jerry knew as an oil catter, a maverick, that you're not going to go 100 for 100. But it didn't stop him. Now there's video out there him acknowledging, yeah, I don't have the guts to do what the Rams did with golf and Stafford. I could not do that. Young Jerry could. I strongly suggest you watch it. Because I just couldn't stop thinking, those Cowboys, that's the Eagles now kind of the envy of the league. We all go like, yeah, they're a little crazy up in Philadelphia. I don't know if Nick Sirianni is the guy. That's what they were saying about Jimmy Johnson first couple of years. Crazy. That Jimmy Johnson guy's crazy, crazy smart. So, I mean, it just. It was amazing to watch how charismatic the Cowboys were and how they lack an identity today. I don't even know what they are. But Jerry, and he has always been a showman. His dad was cool Story. He is on the red carpet for this show. For Jerry, the one thing that remains a constant, he knows the lights are on and he wants to perform. I do believe if we're not being looked at, then I'll do my part to get us looked at. Oh, it's wonderful to have the great athletes, have the great players, but there's something more there. There's sizzle, there's emotion and if you will, there's controversy. And that controversy is good stuff in terms of keeping and having people's attention. Yeah, we're watching. You got our attention. We just don't like the results. All right, so I haven't talked to Aaron Rodgers for a few days. It's about time. It's Wednesday, so Aaron Rodgers is not going to play in the preseason finale. I'm okay with it. He's sitting the preseason for second straight year he's not playing. But it's a little different this year because if you look at the early schedule for Pittsburgh, first game, Aaron Glenn, defensive guy, Jets. Next game, Mike McDonald, Seahawks, third game, Mike Vrabel, defensive guy, fourth game, best defensive coordinator in the league in my opinion. Brian Flores. And he's not taking a preseason snap. He had an abbreviated off season so he's never taken a step snap with DK Metcalf. He's never taken a live snap with Arthur Smith. PFF rates the offensive line at 21st and for whatever reason, blame who you want. The Steelers have not consistently run the ball for about six years, maybe eight. And that's Aaron's reality. So I do think Pittsburgh needs to get off to a hot start because in Aaron Rodgers career there is always been one statistic. There has always been one statistic that is hard to figure out. Aaron Rodgers has the sixth most quarterback starts of all time, yet he is tied for 25th in fourth quarter comebacks. Peyton Manning 43, Marino, Elway. In the 30s he has fewer than Derek Carr, Ryan Tannehill, Andy Dalton. Well, his teams didn't trail a lot, did Peyton Mannings did, Marino and Elways. So why does Aaron need to start quickly? Because I've always used that stat and it belies what I've always thought to be true. Aaron's personality changes based on the score and his performance in games. One of the things I loved about Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady, they do not give a rip. If they've got two pick sixes in the first quarter, they'll play their arse off. They are foxhole guys. They are ballers they don't care in game performance does not change their personality. Sometimes I'd watch Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning after a really bad pick and I'd be like, guys, man, scale back a little on the aggressiveness. Peyton was. That's not who Andrew Luck was. Aaron's different. Aaron gets dark, he gets moody, his demeanor changes, his facial expressions change. He'll throw the ball away. He in game pouts. That's what describes an Otherwise inexplicable stat. 25th all time and fourth quarter comebacks. He's got the six most starts is that if Aaron's not playing well, he's trailing late, he kind of bails. And if you look at this schedule, this schedule is defense, defense, defense, defense, elite defensive coaches. And he's never taken a live snap with DK Metcalfe, Arthur Smith, it's not a good old line. So I'm not saying he should play. I don't have a problem with him not playing. But I didn't love the abbreviated off season and I don't love it. 41 years old, he no longer has the talent to bulldoze mediocre teammates. And Pittsburgh offensively has got some mediocre guys. So Mike Tomlin says he's totally comfortable with Aaron Rodgers not taking a snap in the preseason.

[Mack Brown]

I'm comfortable with what I'm seeing out here. Obviously if I weren't, I would be playing them. Everyone else is under consideration. They're preparing as if they're going to play. There are a lot of variables in it, who's playing for Carolina and things of that nature that might provide worthy competition. But as I sit here today, all healthy Outside of the four that I mentioned are preparing and scheduled to play.

[Colin Cowherd]

41 year old, shaky O line, no run game, never taken live snaps in a game with the OC or DK Metcalf. And by the way, Aaron's a good looking guy. And I have said before, the league is more interesting with Aaron Rodgers playing than not playing. I don't think Pittsburgh is a good fit. I didn't necessarily think the jets was a good fit. Deep down I was rooting for him to go to Minnesota or San Francisco. But the Niners, like Brock Purdy and J.J. mcCarthy was drafted, so it didn't happen. But I'll say one thing, that cannot be the last helmet he wears. If you're watching me on television, you see this picture. That helmet is so outsized, I can see the shadows inside the helmet. He looks like a small plane parked in a Delta hangar. Somebody get that helmet fixed for Aaron Rodgers. See that thing right behind me? That cannot be the last picture of Aaron Rodgers. Tighten it up, Steelers. You can't get the run game right. At least get the helmet right for Aaron Rodgers. Okay, John, I Yesterday we had some fun on the show where we took the Bears schedule. I tried to be optimistic and I said life's about happiness, it's about expectations. So if you really look at the schedule for the Bears, if they go 9 and 8, you should actually come out of the season and feel pretty darn good that that probably means you split with your division. We're going to do that with another team today and we're not going to be as positive because this is my going downhill fast franchise. So don't go anywhere. We've got a lot going on today and an update with Caleb Williams and the Bears. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 the iHeartRadio app he's Mike Carmen, I'm Dan Byer and we have a fantasy football podcast called I Want yout're Flexed. That's right, Dan. Every week we're gonna scour the waiver wire to find the pickups to turbo boost your fantasy lineup sits starts fantasy football players rankings to get you ready to dominate the competition. Listen to I Want yout Flex with Mike Harmon and me, Dan Beyer on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast and wherever you get your podcast Running a business.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

All right, it's been reported Caleb Williams, other Bear starters will in the preseason finale against the Kansas City Chiefs. I am for that in most instances. I do like young quarterbacks taking snaps. So going back to watching the Cowboy special last night, you just, I mean, you just forget how much patient we patience we used to have with quarterbacks. Troy Aikman just got the, you know what kicked out of him for two and a half years his first two seasons starting. Forget the fact that he was 7 and 19. He had 20 touchdowns and 36 picks. And when he played Philadelphia, he was a pinata. I mean, they were just beating on him and. But you know what? They knew his talent and they stuck with him. At one point in year three, Steve Berline replaced him when he got banged up. And I mean, you couldn't tell at the time are they going to move on with. Berline was a Notre Dame guy. I think Berline was kind of a fiery leader and Jimmy Johnson liked that. And Jimmy was cutting guys left and right and. And you're like, man, this thing could go sideways fast. It wasn't until Troy Aikman got an aquarium and Jimmy came over with some Heinekens and they sat down and talked fish. Not the band, talked actual fish that they got along. So it was a different world and it should be with seven on seven camps. The coaching is better. Offensively, I think the Colts should move on from Anthony Richardson. I respected Arizona and Steve Keim moving off from Josh Rosen for Kyler Murray. I probably would have done the same thing. I get that. The difference with Caleb Williams, though, is A, he's, he's more talented than those guys. And B, Chicago's never had a great quarterback unless you count like, didn't Sid Luckman play in Chicago? I think, yeah, if a guy's name's Sid, it was probably in the 30s or 40s. So Green Bay, the Packers, just a train Ride north, have twice drafted a quarterback in the first round and sat him for three years. So they're the ultimate impatience. But there's an argument to be made that you just have to make Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams work. There's an argument that make it work because for the first time that I can remember, the Bears actually got a coach that other people in the league wanted. They, they usually settle at head coach and they usually overdraft quarterbacks. Now, you can look at Jaden Daniels and Bo Nicks now, but a lot of people, most people had Caleb Williams number one. So the two most important people in the NFL to winning, quarterback one, coach two, and my entire life. The Bears settled at head coach, mostly an overdrafted quarterback. And this time they didn't. They didn't settle. They got the coach everybody wanted. He was the hot shot, best offensive coordinator in the league several years. They got him, he turned down other teams. The Bears got him an offensive coach and Caleb Williams has superstar potential. What transpires, we'll see. But, but there is an argument than a Josh Rosen case or in a Mitch Trubisky case or in an Anthony Richardson case. You should be more decisive than you used to be in the Troy Aikman era. And I, I am in that camp. But there's an argument. Just stick it out. Just make it work. There's gonna be bad days, but you've Never had a 4,000 yard passer get it right. Just figure it out and we're going to be patient for the remainder of your contract. For Ben Johnson. Remainder of the contract, Caleb, remainder of the contract. We're giving you four years. Figure it out. We know stylistically you're kind of different. We're sticking with it. We're going to be the most patient team in the league. If it looks rocky through two years. Albert Brer went to the Bears camp. Here's what he saw with Caleb. The day I was there, Caleb Williams looked terrible. There's no better. There's no sugar coating it. What Ben Johnson and his staff were trying to do with Caleb was let's feed him through a fire hose in the spring and then early in training camp and let's see what he can handle and let's see what he's good at and let's see what he's not good at and let's see how he learns. Let's see how he takes those early lumps and is able to compartmentalize them. And then over the course of camp, the hope was that they would get a more resilient player who's playing faster and as coaches they would get a.

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[Colin Cowherd]

At so they could build an offense based on that. Just saying they're playing against the Chiefs in the preseason. They'll probably win. Could be winning again like Buffalo. Decisively. They need the snaps because they got to make this work. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app running a business online.

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Colin Cowherd]

Well, I've been looking forward to this all day. Mack Brown, the national champion head coach with Texas. I mean, he knows. He knows where all the skeletons are buried in this fort. And there's a lot of change. And I always thought Mack had the ability to teach and coach in a joyful way. He loved what he did when he returned to Carolina. The players loved him. But sometimes it's just time to move to the hill country in Austin, Texas, and enjoy life a little bit. And Mack Brown is now joining us live. Coach, you know, I was thinking about this, everybody, and I've said this before. I think I said years ago, the best job in football in America is coaching the Texas Longhorns. And I said that, and a coach texted me and he goes, listen, it's a good job. He goes, but there's a lot of drama. There's a lot of boosters. There's a lot of stuff that Longhorn network. And I love Sark, I really do love Sarko, but I think it's one of those jobs. Coach, it's a little harder than people think. You know, at Alabama, football runs everything. But at Texas, it's a music town, it's a food town, it's a. When you watch Sark coach, do you envy him or do you understand sometimes what he's going through?

[Mack Brown]

I think it's a great question column, but I really think it's both ways. I love the University of Texas. I think it is the best job in the country, and especially within aisle because you've got a chance, because you got people that are passionate and they care, and the only way you can manage it, you got to take their passion and it's really pride and it's not pressure, and they want to win so badly, and you've got to be able to handle all the outside noise. And Sark's coached at Washington, he's coached at usc. So he's done all this. He's been there, done that. I really like him and I respect him and he's doing a tremendous job. But after you coach at Texas, it's really tough because you really got everything you need. When I first got there, I asked the lost, I said, I'd like to buy this. Does it fit in our budget? And he said, coach, you don't have a budget. You can do whatever you want. I said, we don't have a budget. And he said, no, man, you go through it. And I asked the loss one time as our athletics director, how hard is your job? And he said, when you're winning, mine's easy. When you're losing, I don't have a job.

[Colin Cowherd]

That'S so good. They have Arch Manning, and the Manning family is classy, smart. I mean, Arch Manning could have transferred. Not interested. Supported Quinn Ewers. I maybe I'm worrying about something that doesn't matter. Tim Tebow became like a celebrity quarterback. Cam Newton in College. Would you be worried about the burden, the expectation, the celebrity? I mean, you got Texas's program, the Manning name. Would you be a little worried about that if you were Sark coming into the season?

[Mack Brown]

Yes. And you have less worries because Archie Manning's the granddad and Eli and Peyton are uncles. And Cooper's been through this whole ride with all of them, the dad and this, this family handles that. They got class, they got charisma, they got confidence. They have done all of these things they need to do. And I've been around Arch enough. He's just, he's smart, he's self deprecating. He'll laugh, he, he'll talk about people that have said critical things of him and say, yeah, I can understand that. Just, I haven't played a lot yet. And so I'm, I'm really excited to watch him play. I watched Chris Sims go through this with his dad winning a Super bowl and.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Mack Brown]

And I watched, I watched Vince Young and his last year going through. Is he going to win the Heisman? Is, is he better than Matt Lantern? Better than Reggie Bush? And, and Vince has got a really good perspective on being the quarterback here. But Arch is really into the guys. He's into that locker room, and that's what's so critical for a quarterback. And, and the thing, Colin, I think people miss on arches. Archie could run, Granddad. We all saw him. I played. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. And, and Eli and Peyton were, they could run, but there were more pocket quarterbacks. Arch can run, and, and that will give him a chance. They got four new offensive linemen, so that's going to be difficult going to Ohio State, but when you've got a quarterback that can run, it makes those offensive linemen look a lot better, you know?

[Colin Cowherd]

So Belichick takes your gig. I. It's interesting because usually when a legend like you retires, they bring in a young hotshot. They didn't. They brought in an old NFL guy who's, who kind of has a way of doing things. I think I'll throw it, give you my take. I think NIL saves Bill. I don't think Bill would have succeeded in the old way of building through high school players. But the NIL is almost professional football. I think it gives him a chance, but I also think Mac, 17 hours max. I mean, you don't get the hours. You can't have a 60 hour week. Kids have more power. There's a lot of stuff here where I'm like, I don't know Give me your crystal ball. What do you think Bill will handle effortlessly and what could be something that, you know, he'll. He'll kick around a little bit?

[Mack Brown]

Well, the first thing, Colin Chancellor Lee Roberts has committed to football big time for the first time in North Carolina history. They are really wanting football to be good, so they're all in, and that gives them a chance to be successful. Bill is arguably the best coach of any sport. When you win that many Super Bowls, at whatever level the man can coach, he can evaluate. Because he had to bring in all those kids at the Patriots. And now administrators don't like to say it, but we have pro football at some level in college. We no longer have amateurism. We have payment scales. We've got nil. Kids are asking for money. They have agents. There's negotiations. So I do think the fact that we are much more like the NFL than ever before will really help Bill with this transition. The other thing is every coach wants his own players. And they used to say it takes you two or three years to get your guys in there. He's brought in 72 new guys. So you got money, you can evaluate and you can bring in who you want. I think he has a chance to win big and win big fast.

[Colin Cowherd]

We were talking about this. It seems like about every third year, you get a really, really good quarterback class. And Cade Klubnick is. I swear. Is he from Austin? He may be from Austin, Texas. Is he?

[Mack Brown]

Yes. Westlake High School.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right. Yeah. So he. Where you're at? He's from there. So I went back and I watched his high school stuff and I went. I went deep diving a couple, and I saw him play a few times. Clemson. He moves like Arch Manning. He can move a little bit now. He's a. He'll 4, 6, 5. He can run. You faced him, I think, twice at Carolina. I remember one for sure. Twice. What. When you. After those games, was he better in person? Were there things he struggled with? Give me a. Give me a. A little bit of a. If I'm an NFL GM and I call you, I say, Mac, I'm thinking of drafting Cade Klubnick. Give me a thumbnail sketch on him. What do you. What do you think of him?

[Mack Brown]

I saw him in high school. My son went to Westlake High School. Todd Dodge was his coach, and I knew Todd really, really well. We recruited him and couldn't get him to come. I think he's really, really good. The two times that we played him, the first time he was good, but okay, maybe a little cautious last year. At the end of the year, he got really confident. He nearly brought him back in Austin in a huge game, playoff game, but especially for him at home, he's tough. He can run, he can throw, he's accurate, he's confident. And I think he gives Clemson a chance to be really, really good.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, you know, Clemson hasn't done the nil stuff. You are a legendary recruiter. Belichick, Deon Sanders, Lincoln, Riley, Brian Kelly, they're all in on it. I worry that Nil erodes chemistry. That's what I worry about. I feel like you don't know the odometer on a used car. I like to know what I know about my guys. I've been recruiting since they were high school sophomores. What did you make of Nil? Does it. I mean, forget the pain. The players, kid, they, they obviously deserve some compensation, but what does it do to a locker room? Does anything worry you about the Portal or Nil?

[Mack Brown]

Colin, it's another great question. I do think the, the major programs, the brand programs that are going to have the majority of the money, it's going to ruin the competitive balance in college football because we're going to have the same 15 playing at the end. And if you've got enough money to recruit high school players and keep them, then Nil is not going to bother you. When you bring in all the different guys, it's really hard. So what we learned is if you've got money and you buy a team, it doesn't mean you're going to win. Number one, you got to buy the right ones. Number two, they've all got to fit well in that locker room. You've got to mesh together as a team, which is hard in a short period of time. And number three, they've got to be unselfish. And that's one thing we're looking at right now. I saw Cedric Benson in a locker room after we beat Michigan in the Rose bowl, sit there crying because he didn't want to take his uniform off and he was a first round draft choice and he just sat there and I said, why are you crying? He said, this is the last time I'll ever have this uniform on. And I'm not sure we're going to have that loyalty at schools that are bringing in all the transfers. Now, as much as the one like Sark only brought in 10 transfers, 10, 11. He's building it with high school guys. Clemson is building it with high school guys. They bring in a few transfers, but not many. So at the highest level, if you can continue to bring in and develop the right guys and you're recruiting the right guys, I think you're going to have the chance to be the most consistent program programs in the long haul through this nil period.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I like that. I like, you know, I'm kind of with Sark on that. Or like if you're Ohio State and you bring in like Caleb Downs, if you can bring in a first round pick, go get him by all means, but I worry about that. Oh, by the way, I gotta ask you about Drake May. So I like. One of the things I like about Drake May, he was your quarterback for several years is that I like he comes from a family of athletes and older brothers. And there is something about that coach, about the toughness, you know, playing with your brother's buddies and you're getting thrown around the basketball court and the football.

[Mack Brown]

Give me.

[Colin Cowherd]

Did you notice that with Drake? Because in the NFL as a rookie, they're going to haze you, they're going to be on you, you're carrying luggage. They're. Vrabel's a tough guy. What about Drake May impressed you beyond the size, the arm. What else did you like about it?

[Mack Brown]

He said when he was a kid he had to fight for food. He had all those brothers in there. So everything he did, he, he would have to compete and fight. So they, they'd play pickleball and get mad. And one day I walked in the players lounge and there was a broken ping pong paddle. And I said, who broke the paddle? And he's sitting over in the corner and they all pointed to Drake and I said, drake, why'd you break the paddle? He said, the tight end beat me in ping pong. Can you imagine? The tight end beat me in ping pong. And I said, yeah, but I still think you can keep the paddle clean without breaking it. But he is so competitive. He's smart, he's got a great heart. He is a wonderful team leader. He'll have that locker room fighting for him in every minute. I just love him. I think he's a quarterback that's going to win a Super Bowl.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, that's great. Okay. Finally, Mac and I talked for a couple minutes before we went on the air and he moved to Austin, Texas, which is one of America's great cities and I'm not telling you where, but I know what golf course he's on and it's darn nice, I'll tell you that. And I, and I told you during the break, I said, my wife said, you need to get a hobby. And I could never find one. And then two years ago, I got oddly, bizarrely into obsessed with golf and just crazy, like, you know, just I'm into it all the time. And tell me a little bit about, are you playing golf regularly, Colin?

[Mack Brown]

I'm playing just about every day. I'm playing six holes, nine holes, 12 holes, and I just love it. And as a coach, you played, but you played with boosters. They were asking about the quarterback or why'd you do this or why'd you do that? They told you, you can play bad, but don't play bad and slow. You gotta play fast. You never practice. You're always shaking hands before you hit the ball on the first tee in a tournament. So I've never been able to really play golf and enjoy it, and now I am just absolutely loving it. So I'm, I'm doing my work, I'm doing some stuff, and then I head to the golf course.

[Colin Cowherd]

And what did your for you have a friend that told you? I want, I want you to share this with our audience because it really is so true. What did your, you have a friend that's a golfer. What did he tell you about golf?

[Mack Brown]

I was playing with my friend the other day and he was playing awful. He was really struggling. So he looked at me at the end of the match and he said, you know, coach, this is really interesting golf. I said, what are you talking about, bud? And he said, it costs a lot of money. It takes all day to play four and a half, five hours. You hit a lot of bad shots and it makes you absolutely miserable. And as soon as you get through, you can't wait to get back on the fourth. And I think that's God that is.

[Colin Cowherd]

And it's expensive. I mean, it checks every bad box.

[Mack Brown]

And when you get home, your wife's mad. Where have you been?

[Colin Cowherd]

Did you have fun?

[Mack Brown]

No, it was awful. I had so many bad shots.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it's so true. It's great to see you as always. Great, great American sports storyteller. Mac, I love you. Thank you so much. Well, we all have juggles and struggles and faults and flaws because to be a pet parent is to be human. And we can only do so much. Hill's pet nutrition is a leader. Science led nutrition for dogs and cats. And I got a lot of dogs. Hills helps burn fat and benefits include lean muscle, strong bones, a shiny coat for your dog. They use high quality protein sources. Hills science led nutrition helps you Give more love than humanly possible. If you love your dogs like I do, use hills. You're only human. There's hills. Science does more. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

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[Colin Cowherd]

This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meets World. Parents, quick question. When is the last time you won snack time? The other day I handed my son a perfectly portioned Pinterest level snack and he traded it for a Mott's applesauce pouch. I'm not mad, just impressed. And that's why Mott's no sugar added applesauce pouches are perfect to keep on hand. They're made with real apples packed in a super easy pouch, perfect for tossing in a lunchbox, keeping in the car, or grabbing as you're running out the door. Plus, they're a good source of vitamin C and kids love them. Win, win. Make sure your kid wins. Snack time with motto Real apples make real good applesauce. Learn [e-mail] this is an I Heart podcast.