Best of the Week on The Herd

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Herd with Colin Cowherd - "Best of the Week on The Herd"

Release Date: March 29, 2025
Hosts: Colin Cowherd and Bill Simmons
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts and The Volume

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Introduction

In the "Best of the Week on The Herd," host Colin Cowherd sits down with renowned sports commentator and podcast founder Bill Simmons. The episode offers a deep dive into the week's top sports stories, covering major developments in basketball, football, and baseball. Their conversation is rich with analysis, personal anecdotes, and expert opinions, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the current sports landscape.

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NBA Discussions

• Jayson Tatum's Stellar Performance

  Colin and Bill extensively discuss Jayson Tatum's impact on the Boston Celtics. Colin praises Tatum's versatility and leadership, stating:

  "This year he's the third best guy in the league. He plays all five positions. [14:24]"

  Bill echoes this sentiment, highlighting Tatum's all-around game:

  "He's the best rebounder on the team. I think as a decision maker and just as an all-around player. This is the best he's ever looked by far. [15:07]"

• Kevin Durant's Versatility and Team Fit

  The conversation shifts to Kevin Durant, with Colin emphasizing Durant's potential to transform any franchise:

  "There are only two guys in this draft who I think are would be great in any draft, Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter. I do think there's only one player in this draft that will turn around a franchise and that is the kid Cam Ward who would go to Tennessee. [26:43]"

  Rachel Nichols adds to the discussion, focusing on Durant's adaptability:

  "Kevin Durant is still extremely valuable to have. [63:54]"

• Modern NBA Culture vs. Past Eras

  Colin and Bill compare the collaborative nature of today's NBA players to the more contentious relationships of the past. Colin notes:

  "Now Bird and Magic didn't like each other initially, but over the course of time they had so much respect for each other. [12:55]"

  This transition underscores the evolution of player dynamics, emphasizing teamwork and mutual respect in the current era.

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College Basketball and Bill Simmons' Work

• "Celtic City" Documentary Series

  Bill Simmons shares insights about his documentary podcast series "Celtic City," which explores the rich history of the Boston Celtics. He highlights the focus on legendary figures like Larry Bird:

  "Larry Bird's legacy is profound. Despite his injuries, he managed to perform at an elite level, showcasing his resilience and skill. [25:06]"

  Colin expresses his enthusiasm for the series:

  "Celtic City. Episode four tonight. Great hope periods the Larry Bird issue. It airs tonight on Max. [32:57]"

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NFL Developments

• Aaron Rodgers' Potential Move

  The duo delves into Aaron Rodgers' future in the NFL, speculating on possible team movements and the implications for the Cleveland Browns:

  "I think Aaron Rodgers privately is talking to the Niners. [15:08]"
  "If I'm Aaron Rodgers, I don't sign. I sit on the sidelines and wait and watch what's happening with the Niners. [15:07]"

• Cleveland Browns' Draft Strategy

  Colin and Bill analyze the Browns' draft picks, particularly focusing on Shador Sanders and Travis Hunter, discussing how these selections might influence the team's performance:

  "He is a pocket quarterback who's accurate and won't be very expensive. That's what Stefanski wants. [26:43]"

  "My take on Shedeur is to be that accurate with no running game, a mostly abysmal offensive line for two years is really hard to pull off. [57:45]"

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MLB Parity and Commissioner Rob Manfred

• Enhancements in Baseball

  The hosts discuss the strides MLB has made in achieving parity, attributing it to innovative changes despite resistance from purists:

  "Baseball's in an incredibly healthy place. They cannot have a work stoppage and all the seamheads come out of the woodwork. [28:39]"

  Colin elaborates on the impact of rule changes:

  "The pitch clock, larger bases, more base runners, more stolen bases—these changes have sped up the game and increased engagement. [60:00-72:46]"

• Paradox of Parity

  Despite increased parity, Colin points out the ongoing challenges:

  "The pitchers against the hitters, the sports fine. And as I've said, who pays 40% of baseball's bills? TV networks, they don't care about parity. [61:35]"

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Critical Analysis of Sports Trends

• Load Management in the NBA

  The conversation touches on the controversial topic of load management, with Colin advocating for a balance between analytics and the "alpha" nature of playoff basketball:

  "I like analytics. I'm not anti-analytics, but I like man analytics. [18:05]"

• Tanking and NBA Regulations

  Rachel Nichols and Bill Simmons explore the systemic issues within the NBA that encourage tanking, criticizing league policies that inadvertently perpetuate the problem:

  "The league has contributed to creating this problem because owners want to stop themselves from overspending. [73:53]"

  "Tanking is not solvable. You are 100% correct. [70:25]"

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Concluding Thoughts

The episode concludes with reflections on the interplay between player dynamics, team strategies, and league policies across different sports. Colin and Bill emphasize the importance of adaptability, strategic decision-making, and the evolving nature of competitive sports. Their engaging dialogue offers listeners a nuanced perspective on current sports challenges and triumphs.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "This year he's the third best guy in the league. He plays all five positions." – Colin Cowherd [14:24]
• "He's the best rebounder on the team. I think as a decision maker and just as an all-around player. This is the best he's ever looked by far." – Bill Simmons [15:07]
• "I think Aaron Rodgers privately is talking to the Niners." – Colin Cowherd [15:08]
• "Baseball's in an incredibly healthy place. They cannot have a work stoppage and all the seamheads come out of the woodwork." – Colin Cowherd [28:39]
• "Kevin Durant is still extremely valuable to have." – Rachel Nichols [63:54]
• "Tanking is not solvable. You are 100% correct." – Colin Cowherd [70:25]

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Conclusion

"The Herd with Colin Cowherd" hosts an insightful and comprehensive discussion in the "Best of the Week" episode, covering pivotal moments and trends in basketball, football, and baseball. Through expert analysis and engaging dialogue, Colin Cowherd and Bill Simmons provide listeners with a clear understanding of the current sports environment, making it a valuable listen for sports enthusiasts seeking in-depth knowledge and thoughtful commentary.

Transcript

[Colin Cowherd]

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And the destinations Caribbean this winter, Iceland, North America and the Mediterranean in 2025 and 2026. Virgin Voyages is where luxury meets travel. Book it and see what you've been missing. Learn [e-mail] or contact your travel advisor. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the [e-mail] or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio, or FSR. Now, let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. All right, here we go. It's a Monday. It's our number two. Live in Los Angeles, it's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. J. Mac, Bill Simmons in five minutes. Founder, CEO of the Ringer podcast legend. You've known him a while, huh? I haven't seen that guy. Must have been, like 10 years. I went up to him at a Super bowl party, and he was like, stun this when I was with the big lead, you know, and he was, like, stunned, and he's, oh, the big lead. And we started talking. He's actually a pretty nice guy. I saw him. I see him at wrestling stuff or UFC movie with his son. Are you going to wrestling a lot these days? I've been to it. I went to a WrestleMania at the SoFi, and it was. My son had the best time. I've never seen my son laugh that much. He loved it. We sat right in front of Simmons and his son, and I told my son, I said, it's like theater. It's like Broadway. Lean into it. So my son is booing, you know, you're a jerk. And then, you know, they could be a wrestler. I've been to two of them. I've been to a WrestleMania, and then I've just been to another event. They're fun. What can I say? I know I used to call those fans booger readers, but, you know, some are. All right, it's Monday. Colin, right? Colin wrong. Here we go. Where Colin was right. Well, well, well. J. Mac only has 10 team. I've got 15 of 16 teams left for the television audience. This is. The staff can vouch for me. This is my bracket. Last week, J. Mac and I went toe to toe. We gave our brackets in, and I'm only missing one team. Rick Patino did me wrong but good so far. I'm probably gonna pay a dear price for not having Duke win at all, but I think. I think, you know, Duke will have their hands full. I'll leave it at that. Where Colin? I've said the Dodgers being villains, great for baseball. I just saw the ratings for the games in Japan. 25 million viewers across all platforms. Most watched baseball game ever in Japan. The second game almost got as many against the Cubs. Folks outside of the NFL, sports needs villains. It's good when the Celtics win. It's good when the Lakers win to the Yankees and Dodgers merchandise is off the chain. By the way, those games with the viewers were starting at 3:00am Pacific Time and still did really good numbers. Where Colin was wrong well, I have a little feud with John Calipari, but he beat Bill Self in round one and Rick Pitino in round two and he deserves credit because this team's had injuries all year. They were bad to start the season, only finished 8 and 10 in the SEC. But Calipari deserves credit. He is the only coach ever to take four different schools. Only second coach ever. Four different schools in this week. Sixteen Where Colin was right I said when the US Men's soccer hired Mauricio Pochettino that if they ever lost they'd blame the coach. Well, we just got shut out by Panama and lost to Canada in the Nations League games. It's our worst finish in a long time and I've said we overvalue our players. We think it doesn't matter who the coach is. Jurgen Klinsmann, Steve Bruce arena, it doesn't matter. The coach always takes the heat and my knock has been we have some good players but last World cup were way too young, probably still too young to finish as a top four to eight team. But once again we get a new coach after driving one out and it's the same result. We don't have the intensity in big games like we should. Where Collin was right. Brock Purdy reportedly wants dak money. I laugh at all these people telling me he's going to take a pay cut. Team friendly deal. No. Even though he was 1 and 6 against playoff teams last year with more interceptions than touchdowns and had his second troubling injury, he views himself as great. He's been gassed up because he's a seventh round pick. He's never made any money. So he is going to go and play hardball. I've said it. I think Aaron Rodgers privately is talking to the Niners. I could be wrong on this. He may be. If I'm Aaron Rodgers, I don't sign. I sit on the sidelines and wait and watch what's happening with the Niners. Where Colin was wrong. I had St. John's and Rick Pitino in the final four. Listen, I knew they weren't a great shooting team, but a lot of college teams aren't great shooting teams. This is not the NBA. They were awful offensively and here's Patino after the loss.

[Bill Simmons]

We thought we were championship driven in.

[Colin Cowherd]

Our minds, but I've been disappointed before with this.

[Bill Simmons]

You hate to see us play like that.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't mind going out with a loss. I just hate to see us play that way offensively. And you got to live with it.

[Bill Simmons]

You put a lot of time and effort. The coaches did.

[Colin Cowherd]

It's just a bit of pill to swallow. Where Collin was right. Ah. The SEC has seven teams in the Sweet 16. Florida, Auburn and Tennessee all look good enough to win. Ole miss rolled number three seed Iowa State. Bama is winning two. I went almost all chalk with SEC teams. I had Arkansas losing to St. John's but in the end said it in January when I watched the sec, I said it two different times on this show. Are you guys watching college basketball? Because it looks like SEC football about five years ago. They just look bigger, longer, faster and more skilled than every other conference. Where Colin was right. Najee Harris said it out loud. The Steelers don't have any identity on offense. He said, I go to the defensive guys and talk to them, but they wouldn't be too much. They couldn't tell me about the offensive line. This is what we've said. It is so crystal clear that as the NFL pivoted to offense, they led the NFL and defensive spending again. And they are an antiquated offensive culture. That's why I think Najee Harris is one of the great pickups of the offseason. Colin, right? Colin wrong. Phil Simmons, you know him, the ringer CEO and founder cultural critic. The Bill Simmons podcast at Bill. He's a very busy guy, so I don't get him very often, but he's got a cool looking. Usually I see you and Rossello doing your thing, so I have not. I'm starting this week. The staff is all caught up. They're singing the praises of your Matt.

[Bill Simmons]

You're not gonna watch it?

[Colin Cowherd]

Come on. No, I am. I will. I will. I do. I travel a lot. I watch. I'll watch every episode. First one's Koozie, then Russell. Then it's the Celtics I grew up with, which was 6, 8. Dave Cowan's @ center and Havelch. That's what I grew up with. Then we're going to the one that's really fascinating birds. I'm gonna ask you this question to start. When you come up with an idea like this. The day the light goes on, the epiphany to to the series starts because Hollywood, everything's molasses. Everything slow motion. How long is the process from light bulb to show is airing?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, first of all, it's an honor to follow a Naji Harris segment. I was really hoping that would happen in mid March. I know the world's talking about Naji right now, so it's great to be here. That it started probably 2020 and it just takes so long to finish deals and it takes so long to find a director and find the behind the scenes team that this was probably a four year process. Plus we're making nine episodes, nine hours of content and you know, looking back, it feels like a million years ago when we started. And it was really hard to do because you're telling, you know, it's one of the most famous franchises in any sport. It intersects with the city of Boston in all these ways and the. The NBA in America. So it was a pretty ambitious thing. But I feel good about what we pulled off.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, you've also, because of the tragedy to lend Bias, there was also another run that could have been and wasn't. You guys could have had your next run. That's right. So you, you could have had a pre Larry Bird Larry and you didn't. So that's something I've always thought about. Boston is, you know, the Lakers, you know, with, with, with Kobe and Gasol. You could have had another one there. So this is a franchise that could have more. They've had some bad fate. When you as a Celtic fan look at all the teams, is there one that to you is closest to your heart?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean the Celtics, because we, we had season tickets. My dad got a ticket in the 73, 74 season, used to carry me in and then we eventually got two in the late 70s. So I went to the most Celtic games. So I obviously that's that personally just being there, being in the building for some of the best and the worst stuff I think matters the most. I think what's interesting about the team as a whole is, you know, they mattered the most. They were the most successful franchise in the world for the first 40 years really until. Until Bias died. And then it just dipped and there was this slow process where you're hanging on to the old memories. You're hoping it's going to work out and then eventually you just become another NBA team. The Garden goes down in 95. They just have this absolute drought where they're not relevant really for nine solid years until the 2002 team. So it's this, it's this once powerful institution that completely falls apart and then eventually resurrects starting with the KG trade. So that part made it really compelling as a story too. It's, it's Nine episodes. But you know, once we get into the, the 90s and the 2000s, it gets, gets pretty dark. A lot of stuff has happened to this team. So that, that made it great from a storytelling standpoint.

[Colin Cowherd]

You know, it's, it's a different world. It used to be that all the NBA guys were fighting for a smaller pie and so Michael Jordan really did hate the Pistons and everybody. You know, there was real animosity. Now Bird and Magic didn't like each other initially, but over the course of time they had so much respect for each other. But it's interesting. It's a more collaborative basketball world. A you guys all play together and I've said this about Jayson Tatum. He is a product of what basketball is today. It's not high school rivalries and college rivalries. It's a you basketball. You may not even go to college by the time you get into the NBA. All help each other with charities, your friends and so we can criticize Tatum, but he is a product of this generational basketball players. LeBron doesn't have any enemies. He's never gotten into a fight. They all get paid. So that. So I guess my point is you can't really criticize Tatum when he doesn't have, quote, the instinct. That's what basketball players are today. Is that fair?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I mean it's funny if you watch the Celtics season this year, they, they've definitely butted heads with a few teams, including the Lakers. I think there is more crap talk during that last Lakers Celtic game than probably the last five years of it. Listen, Colin, Celtics Nation is very aware of your Tatum takes. They've, we've heard everybody gets super defensive about him because the guy's having an incredible season. First of all, he won the title last year.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This year he's the third best guy in the league. He plays all five positions. Yesterday against Portland he was playing point center with four shooters. He can guard everybody. He's the best rebounder on the team. I think as a decision maker and just as an all around player. This is the best he's ever looked by far. And he's the biggest reason they have a chance to, to win the title again. I think last year you could definitely make the case. It was 1A and 1B with him and Jaylen Brown and they were, they had a great, in a good way, a seesaw thing where they would lift each other up if one guy was down. This year it's been Tatum's season. He's the best guy in the team. And other than SGA and Jokic, he's been the most day to day impactful guy in the league and he's really durable, which I think.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, both of us have critic NBA players for. You play 65 games and you call it a season and you take like little sabbaticals or you leave or you nurse injuries. Tatum's out there all the time and I think what he has turned into over the last couple years has exceeded any expectation I ever could have had. You, you're basically hoping he could be a poor man's Durant when they drafted him. And now you're talking about somebody that has a chance to be one of the four or five best Celtics ever.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. And I also think unlike Durant, he's not a wanderer. Like I could see him playing for this team forever and then, I mean, he's just. That's not his personality.

[Bill Simmons]

No question.

[Colin Cowherd]

I've said this before. They're all basketball players. Enter every night with an empty canvas. They're all artists. More than any other sport, basketball players are artists. They spill paint, they have bad nights. Steph Curry has horrible shooting nights. The difference is LeBron is more Bono or Jay Z, where he's a businessman and. And KD is more Pearl Jam. I'm going to sue ticketmaster. Tatum's more LeBron. He's happy, he's content, he's community. It's about business and basketball. So I could see him staying forever and I think that's good for the Celtics. That's just kind of my.

[Bill Simmons]

That's.

[Colin Cowherd]

He's more LeBron than, than Durant, personality wise.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things our documentary is about. For whatever reason, this franchise, the history of the guys who played for it and the things that have happened and the banners and all the ups and downs and Red Ar and people who are dead. Russell Red, our back, Tommy Hansen. Everybody's basically gone except Koozie and Satch Sanders. But I think the newer guys, when they come in, they really feel that there's something different about the history, the way the generations interact. I think in Tatum's case, some of that circumstance, like he ended up on the best possible team for him with a city that absolutely loves him. I. I don't know if the Durant stuff is totally fair because to me, Durant is just a series. And I know I'm always a Durant defender.

[Colin Cowherd]

I love him as a player, but I think it's.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's a series of sliding Doors with him. You could argue if they never leave Seattle and that team is still there with. With Westbrook and maybe Harden and a Baca and an owner actually cared about the franchise and kept them in Seattle, which is, you know, one of the most loaded from a money standpoint cities we have. Maybe he's still there. Maybe he never leaves. Maybe he becomes what Tatum's going to be in Boston. So I think you need luck with this stuff. LeBron didn't have luck in Cleveland because they were always trying to catch up with him in the 2000s. They're always trying to make the team as good as possible, as fast as possible and sign free agents and make these big trades and just constantly try to chase a title before they were really ready. And eventually he realized, I can't win with this current setup, and he jumps to Miami. Whether you agree with that or not, that was the thinking, I think, with Tatum. He's in a great situation all the way through his 20s and. And that's why you stay.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, no, it's like quarterbacks. Mahomes would win, but he wouldn't win as much without Read and vetch and 100%. Yeah. I mean, it's where you land, at least in the NFL feels like for quarterbacks, about 80% of it. I want to ask you about this. So years ago I coined this. I was very proud of myself. I said, I like analytics. I'm not anti analytics, but I like man analytics. Is that in the end, I need a stop in a bucket. I want a man. I want an alpha. I don't care about. I think a lot of the analytics in the NBA are great for the regular season, but postseason basketball is circumstantial. It's possession basketball. Make a stop. Where are you on analytics? Again, I'm forum, but playoff basketball, it's. It's an alpha sport. That's why I don't trust OKC for another year. It's why I didn't trust Cleveland last year and I do more this year. The young guys are now more about men. Where are you on basketball analytics?

[Bill Simmons]

I just think everybody has them now. We. We hit a point with baseball when there was an edge. Like that's what Moneyball is about.

[Colin Cowherd]

Right?

[Bill Simmons]

And especially the Moneyball movie, which is Joan Hill's character is a fictional person of nine different things. And eventually everyone had the analytics. And then in baseball, then it moved to defense, and then it moved to like, you know, some of the health stuff. And it just kept trying to evolve. I think in basketball they're all looking at the same stuff. It's better to shoot threes than twos. You want interchangeable athletes. I think teams like OKC in Boston have really set the trend for if we just have long guys everywhere who can shoot and they're interchangeable, and that's what we're doing for four quarters. That's the biggest advantage you can have. I went to OKC Clippers last night. They were missing Jalen Williams and Chad Holmgren and it didn't matter. They still won.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And they were. And they had defense. They could switch on every possession. On offense, even though sga, he couldn't buy a basket the whole night, but they had just guys sending picks for him constantly. He's creating stuff for everybody. And they have a real identity. And I think the Celtics do too. The Celtics. If you play minutes for the Celtics, you have to be able to shoot. That's it.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

So I think from an analytics standpoint, the analytics are more about identity than player to player. It's like, what are you trying to be? I think the Lakers are struggling with that right now. I went to the Bulls game Saturday night, by the way, Colin, you live in la. You realize you could come to some of these basketball games.

[Colin Cowherd]

I was invited by a season ticket holder.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't really see you in the arena studying the action. But. But I went to that Bulls Laker game and the Bulls were just like, we're running this whole time.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yep. We're.

[Bill Simmons]

We're gonna run run down your throats and you're gonna die by the third quarter, which the Lakers did. And you see that. And that's a team that. Their identity. Because that Luca trade, they're trying to patch it together on the fly. I want identities in the playoffs. And to me, that's more important than analytics. I think Cleveland is. Is as close to having one as possible. But you saw last week, Kawhi killed him. Kevin Durant killed them. What's Tatum going to do against them when you see these big scoring forwards are able to get whatever they want against them. So. Yeah. So I. Do you buy that, though? I'm more of an identity guy than an analytics guy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. I think. I think there are a lot of similarities in sports. What are you. Pitching's all. I mean, baseball is all about pitching. I got better pitching. I win the series. I mean, even Shohei. Oh. Time can have a bad. That's all it's about. It's about. But in basketball and football, what are you. Because I think in crisis it's just like. It's just like as a parent or as a business, oh, we've got crisis. Everybody in the building has to know, what do we lean on? Where do we go? It's easy when you're playing bad teams. When the Cavs are playing the Celtics, I think the Celtics win because I think they have a greater sense of identity. Even though the Cavs can be more efficient, I think there are times you can argue that they've had better games against Boston. I think Boston has a better sense of what they are in a tie game at 99 with 230 left, and that's why they'll win. I got to ask you this. Well, wait.

[Bill Simmons]

Our friend Marcel and I always talk about this, the difference between regular season basketball and playoff basketball, because I think a regular season team can have a different kind of success than a playoff team if you. You go to the playoffs and you're only doing one thing. And that can work if you only see a team once. But when you see them for two weeks, like, I think this can be a real problem for the Knicks. The Knicks are so Jalen Brunson centric that we're gonna get to the playoffs, and you just see that over and over again for two weeks. You can get used to it. The Celtics with Luca in the finals last year, same thing. They just. They got used to how Dallas is playing, and they. They, you know, as the series went along, it was great for them. So I think the ability to kind of change Personas, which I think OKC has, I think Boston has, I think Cleveland potentially has. That's the number one thing you want.

[Colin Cowherd]

In the playoffs as a Celtic guy in. The show, by the way, is called Celtic City. Episode four, Great Hope airs tonight. And that's the arrival of Larry Bird, which is again, again, that's in my wheelhouse. You know, I remember I watched the Michigan State when it was Magic and Greg Kelser and it was the Sycamores from Indiana. So that's. That's right in my wheelhouse. The guy that just turned 60. So is there something about Larry? Give me just a taste, because we all know the Larry Bird story and. And. And is give me a little aside or a little. A little thought on Larry Bird that don't give away too much, but. But that maybe you didn't even know and then you kind of found out.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, you always see this stuff about when the guys were at their apexes, when they're at their best, especially in documentaries. I've certainly Been involved in a few of them. I think it's a really interesting piece of it is when the guy is banged up and past their prime and holding on and the thing that still makes them great or made them great once upon a time, they can still kind of go back and grab it every once in a while. And that's like. There's basically three straight Bird era episodes coming. That last episode is about how do you stay great when your body's starting to break down. What does that mean? When do you know when it's time to walk away? And I. I think that's the part that I think people don't remember now with, With Bird, Magic all of a sudden was gone, right. He had the HIV diagnosis and that was it. He retired. We never saw him hit that stage. Jordan left at the absolute peak and then came back and went through it with the Wizards for those last two years. And if you remember, those were really interesting wizard seasons for him. Right. His knees were banged up. He was doing it on a lot of memory and was still awesome. So I think with Bird and sometimes it goes terrible, you know, like. And especially you see it in football, you've seen it with Aaron Rodgers right now, the last couple years, right? Just awful. Like, it couldn't. The ending couldn't be worse. I think with the Bird one, he's. He's got this 30 pound back brace and he's still able to like kick butt against the best guys in the league during like one of the hardest eras we've ever had for basketball. So I think that part. I think people are going to be surprised how much they forgot about that section.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. It's called Celtic City. It's supposed to be great. I will watch it. I watch everything. By the way, I just saw.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't believe you.

[Colin Cowherd]

No, no, I absolutely watch. I got. I'll bet you anything I'll. I'm going to start watching it tonight. I will watch it.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I would appreciate that. We know you're not going to basketball games in la, so you have more time.

[Colin Cowherd]

I'm a Bull season ticket holder. I've seen Tatum play live four times. I am.

[Bill Simmons]

Nice. The Bulls are looking good.

[Colin Cowherd]

Well, if they get Cooper, they'll be really good.

[Bill Simmons]

A decade of playing appearances for the Bulls. They're. That's it. They're just. They live in the play and that's all they want. No luxury tax play in and they're happy.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay, so I'm gonna. One football, take one. I think we both have Maggie Harris. No, no, that's. I'm going to save the good stuff for later. One Aaron Rodgers take, and I think you and I are, are kind of agree on this, is that there's two ways you can be a quarterback. A great quarterback, you can be Brady, which is great, and low maintenance. Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, or you can be great and there is maintenance. Cam, Big Ben, Aaron, that group, it never ends well. What it might take is Aaron will probably go Steelers, but deep down he's. He paused because he wanted to go to the Vikings. And I believe he wants Brock purdy to demand 60 million. I think he wants to go play for the Niners because he knows the Steelers don't know offense. That's. And I'm not a conspiracy theory guy. That's. My conspiracy is deep down he wants to go to the bay with Shanahan. What is your take on this circus that's become Aaron over the last couple years, his fall to the leagues or where you land on it?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he was washed up last year as a quarterback. I mean, that's, that's a crucial piece of this. He was terrible. He was good. If he had protection when he. Now protection is one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. I think he likes when people are talking about him. I could see him sticking around and being kind of in the back pocket for. If a situation goes wrong with a quarterback or if somebody gets hurt and maybe he'll not. He won't officially retire. And he'll wait and he'll wait and he'll wait and see what happens. I honestly think Brady, even after Brady retired from the Bucks, I think there was a world for the next two years where he would have come back if something had happened to a qbm, one of the best teams. I think it's really hard for these guys to let go. But I mean, my, my big picture take on this and it ties in with LeBron and Brady. I think those guys and how successful they. They have been. LeBron is late 30s, into his 40s, and then Brady all the way to 45. I think it's just completely ruined how we should be seeing the end of people's careers. We're expecting these people when they're 37, 38, 39, to just still be good. And guess what? It's not going to happen. Like LeBron and Brady are generational anomalies. And what's supposed to happen is you're supposed to hit your late 30s as a quarterback and you're supposed to be Washed up. And that's just how it's supposed to go. And in basketball, same thing you're supposed to be. Paul George 34, 35. Guess what? Athletically you're gonna start slipping year after year after year because that's how it goes. And LeBron and Brady because they are such maniacs and they spend 365 days a year getting their bodies ready and every decision they make was about still continuing to dominate. I don't think it's replicable and I think it's. I think it's going to cause more bad decisions like the Cousins contract, Rogers, you name it. Some of the basketball stuff that's coming, I just think those guys screwed it up for everybody else. As weird as that sounds.

[Colin Cowherd]

Oh, one more take. Four years in a row I have picked a bad team to be good the next year. Washington last year in Denver, Rams the previous year, Minnesota. My pick is New England. I said between the money Gerard Mayo to Vrabel is. You're talking about a different level of coaching. I think Drake May is Herbert. I think they look alike. I think that their, their size, they move. Give me a real. Okay, forget we know you think they'll be better but I have to ask.

[Rachel Nichols]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm always realistic with my teams.

[Colin Cowherd]

Okay. So I think they're a nine and.

[Bill Simmons]

I know you, you and I have both done a good job over the years of identifying possible people. Like I went 275 in my over unders before the season last year. Like I, I'll never top that again. So I almost feel like I'm gonna do badly this year because I did too well last year. But my picks were actually good. Whereas I saw your blazing five record. It was pretty bad. My condolences. I'm sorry.

[Colin Cowherd]

It was awful.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think, you know, obviously your priorities were out of whack and you just didn't care. We all look forward to you caring more this year and trying to re establish your dominance. But listen, the Patriots recipe is exactly the same as Washington last year. The Washington thing did not make sense. They were in Philly's division. They were in a really loaded nfc. They had all this turnover. Oh, how are they going to do this? But then you look at it, it's like terrible coaching staff. All of a sudden. They had a good coaching staff. They all of a sudden had a good quarterback the year before. They didn't. They spent a bunch of money on free agents. They did well in the draft and they played an easy schedule. So we know what the recipe is. We look at it every year. I think the Pats, if they can nail the draft and they can figure out left tackle and at least one playmaker, I. I think when you consider how awful the coaching staff was last year, it was one of the worst coach teams I've ever had in any Boston sport. You couldn't even believe it week to week, how bad it was. So you have Drake, they get a couple blue chippers, easy schedule, they add around, and then you throw in Mike Vrabel, who I think everybody thinks is a top six or seven coach. It's reasonable to go from four wins to 10. Like, we. We see it every year. Where I was like, oh, who saw this coming? We always see it coming. This happens every year. And it's always about a schedule and a coach and a qb.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, well, you know, he doesn't return my tax, so I get him about once every seven years. Very busy.

[Bill Simmons]

That's baloney.

[Colin Cowherd]

You're very busy. Don't get a lot of time with Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

That's baloney. I'm always. I'm always down for a hang.

[Colin Cowherd]

You could invite me to any Laker Lake. I haven't been to Intuit yet, but I'm always available if you want to invite me to something.

[Bill Simmons]

See, this is what I'm talking about. Until it's the best basketball arena ever built and it's relatively close to where you live, and you're like, yeah, I don't know, maybe I'll go one of these times and see what. See, I could go to any game I want. I'll pass.

[Colin Cowherd]

Couldn't you acknowledge I've at least moved into wwe respecting it? Now, that was a big bone of contention between us. It's no longer the. I've been to two.

[Bill Simmons]

Has the community accepted you, though?

[Colin Cowherd]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

You said some mean things way back when there was a booger eaters. You had that going. You looked down on people. You made people feel dumb about it. Now you're back.

[Colin Cowherd]

I don't know if I'm back. I'm just, you know, I. I'm. I'm more willing to accept that it is just what it is. It's theater. It's fun. Just lean into it and have fun. I was, you know, it wasn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I was trying to tell you forever. Look at this. Two guys who used to work for the Worldwide Leader still doing well. Funny how that happens, huh? Everyone says, oh, you can't leave there. Oh, no, can't leave the Worldwide Leader.

[Colin Cowherd]

Whole life's gonna fall apart.

[Bill Simmons]

Guess what? We're fine.

[Colin Cowherd]

We've done okay. We've done okay. Okay. It's called Celtic City, episode four tonight. Great hope period. This is the Larry Bird stuff. So for if you're in your 20s or 30s, you'll remember this stuff. This will be the episode. Is this the one you're proudest of? Is this. Is this the. Is this. I mean, they're all good, obviously. The staff's obviously great. I went and looked up the people working on. Is this one of these? You're really the hit episode.

[Bill Simmons]

I, I honestly, I'm proud of all of them. I think this is. This gets fun because this is the first stretch of episodes where everybody we're interviewing is actually still alive.

[Colin Cowherd]

That helps.

[Bill Simmons]

So, you know, because we're going way, way back to the 50s, 60s and 70s, and sadly, a lot of those people are now gone. So this was. It was nice to get, you know, some. Some people who are still around talking about things that they can actually remember. So, yeah, it's. I. I'm really proud of it. And the thing about tonight is Boston versus Philly was the best Boston rivalry of, Of. Of my childhood.

[Colin Cowherd]

And.

[Bill Simmons]

And beating the Sixers mattered as much as anything except the Yankees and Canadians, I would say.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, I remember.

[Bill Simmons]

So, you know, it's. I had never really seen that captured in the right way. So we, we tried to do it in this episode. Yeah, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Great. Sixer teams with Steve Mix and Caldwell Jones and Andrew Tony and mo Cheeks and Dr. J. George McGinnis. People, I always say this. There may not have been a dynasty in the 70s and early 80s until the Celtics Lakers arrived. 70s NBA basketball was fantastic. It was great.

[Bill Simmons]

It was great. Rick Berry was super weird Bird.

[Colin Cowherd]

Rick Barry was pre Bird Bird, grumpy, great shooter forward who didn't get along with some people, but it was a different time. But he was Pre bird bird, 6, 8, guy that could shoot, right.

[Bill Simmons]

And there was a lot of mystique for people like us back then because none of the games were ever on.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right. That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

So you followed the league through the basketball handbooks and basketball basketball cards and Sports Illustrated and newspapers, and every once in a while there would be a game on. But like going to games in BOSTON in the 70s, David Thompson and maybe came once, twice a year, you know, George Gervin, these guys, if you didn't go the one time they were in town, you never saw them again. And now, now everything's so available. Now you can follow the NBA and you don't even need to go to games or watch games. You can follow it on social media and, you know, on, on Twitter. So I, I'm a nostalgic for that era too, because it really, you really had to care and you really had to follow what was going on.

[Colin Cowherd]

I was the only kid in the neighborhood that collected NBA cards and not baseball cards. So, you know, I can, I go back to Elmore Smith, Lakers center number three. I go way back. Bill Simmons, CEO, the ringer and the founder as well. Celtic City Episode 4 Tonight Great Hope periods the Larry Bird issue. It airs tonight on Max. New episode focuses on the arrival of Larry Bird. That is much watch as always. You know, I appreciate when you stop by. You're a busy guy. I appreciate it.

[Bill Simmons]

I appreciate it too. And I don't come in because you do the desk that's higher than the guest chair. And I don't appreciate the power play by you. So I'd rather do it on Zoom. But great to see you.

[Colin Cowherd]

Totally get it. All right. Good stuff. Bill Simmons. That was a long interview for us. We don't do that very often, but there's a lot of stuff to cover. He's obviously an interesting cat and I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, Think about that. They had that absolutely awful Len Bias tragedy. That could have been another, you know, he was out of Maryland. If you didn't see Len Bias playing college number 34, there was just nothing like it. It was a little Dominique Wilkins, little David Thompson. Just wildly, if I could compare him to a football player, it would be Adrian Peterson. Like just bigger, stronger than other players of his generation. Just didn't look the same or play the same. The tragedy and his early death. Or they could have had another long run. We all need routines that bring us calm in a chaotic world. For millions of Americans arming their SimpliSafe home security systems, the moment of peace. Go to simplisafecollen.com 50% off. A new system with a professional monitoring plan. There is no safe like simply safe. Thanks to Bill Simmons. Bruce Pearl earlier we take a break. Updates next with jmac live in LA. The Hurts want more heard. The herd streams 24 hours a day, 7 days a week within the iHeartradio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. With Amex, there's always a new experience to explore. From curating the perfect vacation and chilling in the Centurion Lounge before you get there trying out that new trendy restaurant. Thanks to priority Notify with global dining access by resy and getting straight to the action it at the big game with card member entrances at select venues with AMEX Platinum you can experience it all. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Access to the card member entrance not limited to the American Express Platinum card. Learn more@American Express.com with Amex. This is Jonas Knox from Two Pros and a Cup of Joe and today's podcast is brought to you by Ferguson Home. Whether you're a homeowner working on a remodel or a pro managing multiple projects, Ferguson Home is where great ideas become stunning spaces. It's designed for the way you want to shop. Explore the best selection of kitchen, bath and lighting products online or visit a local Ferguson Home showroom and get one on one support from an expert consultant. Go to FergusonHome.com to shop the latest styles from top brands like Kohler or find a showroom location near you. This message is brought to you by Apple Card Choosing the right credit card can be daunting. Among the countless credit card options, Apple Card stands apart. You get up to 3% daily cash back on purchases every day. That daily cash can automatically earn interest when you open a High Yield Savings account through Apple Card. 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They're great butcher's cut top sirloins and for dessert, caramel apple tartlets. It doesn't get better than this. From legendary steaks to classic comfort food, bring home that exceptional handcrafted flavor and convenience of Omaha Steaks. Every steak perfectly aged. Five generations of uncompromising quality Omaha Steaks has been America's original butcher since 1917. Don't miss the semiannual sale at Omaha Steaks. Visit OmahaSteaks.com for 50% off site wide. And for an extra $30 off, use the promo code herdherd at checkout. That's 50% [e-mail] and an extra $30 off with a promo code heard at checkout. Here we go on a Wednesday. Baseball commish, Rob Manfred in one hour. As the Major League Baseball season obviously started in Tokyo with the Dodgers Cubs, but it starts tomorrow as well. Major League Baseball. The team's operating going forward starting tomorrow. And Rob Manfred stops by in Los Angeles. It is the Herd. J. Mac, it was interesting. So, you know, you can, you can add new members. One of my favorite bands of all time was the Eagles. Right, right. Okay. And they, you can, you can add people to the band, but you know, Don Henley had the voice. Like in the end, you can add a lot of bad members and the warriors can add Jimmy Butler, and Jimmy Butler makes them better. But it is Steph's team. And last night was a great example because Jimmy Butler returned to Miami, to the Heat, where he got him to the finals. And he has been great. He has been great. When Butler and Steph play together, warriors are 15 and three. But last night's the difference between the two. Steph didn't play, Jimmy did. And the offense dried up. The starters for the warriors at half had 10 total points. And LeBron and Steph are transformational all time players, top 10 players. Luca got traded for a reason. Remember, LeBron left Miami on his terms. Jimmy was traded out of town. Right. So Luka's a great score, but the team's not as good defensively because he doesn't share the ball as much. And in the NBA, if I don't touch it, I'm. I'm not playing. D on the other end. And Steph between iq, eq, off ball, on ball, scoring culture, building leadership. I love Jimmy Butler, but he's combative. He's a bounce around the league guy. He's a super grinder. He's a more offensively skilled Draymond Green. But Steph's the entire package. LeBron's the entire package. You can love Keith Richards, it's Mick's band. You can love Butler, it's Steph's band. You can love Luca, it's LeBron's band. And you saw it last night, is that without Steph, this looked like the team pre Butler, nobody could score. The movement's not as good. They're not talking as much. And the Heat in the Mavs, listen, both got to finals, right? The Heat got to the finals, but when they did with Jimmy Butler, Jimmy was overwhelmed. And Luca got to a finals. But do you remember that finals? He was out of shape, he was gassed. LeBron James with Matthew Della Badova can lose the finals. He's not out of shape, he's not gassed. He just doesn't have enough combatants on his side. So it's, it's. I can, I can absolutely love Jimmy Butler. And you can add players to teams, even like B plus, A minus guys. I've said this. Everybody's got this. Hey, Luca guarantees this. Luka gets worked on the defensive end. We talked about this with Rick Bucher yesterday. When LeBron sat out and he didn't play with Luca, they not only lost, they were getting boat raced by bad teams because Luka sort of reverts back to who Luka is and why it wasn't always great chemistry with the Mavericks. Guys are sitting around watching, they don't touch the ball. And this was Buker yesterday talking about the LeBron Luka dynamic. When LeBron stepped out, it became the Luca show and it looked like Dallas. And the reason that you had everybody defending as hard as they were, because they were touching the ball. They knew that if they ran the floor, the ball is going to be passed ahead and I might get a fast break layup. And that doesn't happen much when LeBron's out. So here it's interesting. I had said this. I gave baseball about 15 years off. I didn't talk much about it. The game got really slow. There was no urgency. The emergence of the iPhone, people are distracted and the stars were not in the right places. Ohtani was down with the Angels, who feel, you know, invisible here in LA county, which neighbors Orange County. And then Bryce Harper goes to the Gnats and Aaron Judge becomes a star and Ohtani is now a Dodger. And all of a sudden you look up and baseball speeds the game up. The defensive shift is eliminated, the bases are bigger, there's more bas runners, more stolen bases. And baseball the last two years, ratings up, attendance up. So Rob Manfred as a commissioner of baseball on in one hour, he's always got a battle. The purists. Baseball is like half amusement park, half museum. And, and the museum crowd, the old school people, they're grumpy. The sky is falling with any change. So yesterday was a great example of that. So Jeff Passon was on, he's very popular. Baseball writer for the Other Place. He was on a podcast and he said, you know, baseball's in an incredible place right now. They cannot have a work stoppage and all the seam heads come out of the woodwork. Nobody can compete. Oh, good Lord. The minute the Dodgers, Yankees make a World Series, the sky is falling crowd. Nobody can compete. We need a salary cap. Baseball's never going to have a salary cap. Union's too strong. And do you know, nobody is repeated in baseball to win the World series since 2000. That is the longest streak of any pro league in America and the longest streak in baseball history. In fact, last year I looked it up this morning. The Guardians, Orioles, Royals, Tigers and Brewers all made the playoffs. In fact, Detroit won a playoffs. There's. They're all in the bottom half of the league in payroll. The leagues never had more parity. Never. But speed up the game of the pitch clock. The purists didn't like it. The change in extra innings, the larger bases. Good God. They suggested the golden at bat. Used once a game where a star can bat out of order. People freaked out. Baseball's in an incredibly, incredibly healthy place. But no sport has more ninnies and whiners than baseball. I looked it up this morning. So you had last year you had six guys sign a hundred plus million dollar contract. Six guys. They must have been all Dodgers. Nope. One was a Yankee, one was a Dodger, one was a Diamondback, one was a Met, one was a Red Sox, one was San Francisco. Six different places. They haven't had a repeat champ. But the minute the Dodgers and the Yankees get in, the sky is falling. The purists are outraged. You have parody all over the sport now. I will say this Dodger team is insane. But we've all had somebody in our social circle. Hopefully you've eliminated them. Where you know, you go up and say, man, what a beautiful day. And they say, well, it could rain tomorrow. That is baseball purist. The sport's great. There's all sorts of bottom payroll teams. I mean, in the NBA you have eight teams that feel like perpetually the Wizards, they're just not watchable. They had John Wall and they weren't watchable. They can't compete. They had Beale and Wall in their prime. They can't compete in the East. So I mean, yeah, the A situation's ugly. But the NFL several years ago had the Raiders change where they were playing. The Chargers moved, they had three. St. Louis moved out to LA. There was a real bumpy two year stretch in the NFL. Where like franchises were moving all over the country. Yes, the A situation's a mess, but this idea, it is just, you know, look, I gave baseball 15 years off, the first eight years here and the last eight at the other place. I just didn't talk it much last year and a half. Baseball's been unbelievable. All the stars in the right place. The game is faster, more base runners, more stolen bases, more activity. In fact, one of my questions now is I think there's parity in baseball. The place where you lack parity is pitcher and hitter. Not enough teams can hit 265 to 270 as a team because the mound pitchers are bigger, stronger, faster, throwing 100 miles an hour. And batters, even good ones, can be overwhelmed in this sport. That's where you lack parody. The pitchers against the hitters, the sports fine. And as I've said, who pays 40% of baseball's bills? TV networks, they don't care about parity. They want six really good teams, preferably in New York, Atlanta, Chicago, L.A. and Philadelphia and maybe Houston. That's where they want the good teams and that's where they are right now. So, J. Mac, we got a lot of stuff, you know, it's, it's interesting. People are pins and needles on what Aaron Rodgers is going to do. And, and I've said he's a slightly better version of Russell Wilson. So Russell Wilson signed with the Giants yesterday and it landed with an absolute nothing break. Well, I, I don't think I, I, that is a third to fourth place team, right? Well, certainly, but is it possible that the Giants got wind that, hey, Shador Sanders ain't going to be there with three guys? He's not, he's gonna be gone. You better grab a quarterback before you get nothing. Right. What if Russell Wilson went to, I don't know, another team? Then they would have no quarterback at all. So I think some draft stuff leaked out and that's why the Patriots went and got digs. Is Travis Hunter going to be there at 4? Colin? I don't know. Yeah. So the Patriots probably heard Travis Hunter is gone at 4 because the Giants are going to have to select him because the Browns are taking a quarterback. Yeah. So, you know, there, there's nobody can keep a secret. I mean, let's be honest. In the NFL, you get close to the draft, you got, you got scouts that have worked for multiple teams. You got people who have been fired. Right. Like so you can't keep secrets anywhere. If you want to keep a secret, don't say anything to anybody. So I think what happened yesterday is a bit of a domino. The Giants find out Cleveland's taking a quarterback. The Patriots find out, oh, we better than sign Stefan Diggs because we're not getting Travis Hunter. Right. That that's probably what's happening. And Neighbors and Travis Hunter is kind of spicy on the outside for the New York Giants. They got a quarterback who just throws deep balls. That's all Russ does. He doesn't want to go over the middle. He just wants to throw the the go routes to Pickens and Pittsburgh, remember? And it worked. Now you get neighbors and Hunter that that's moderately interesting with Brian Dable as your head coach. All right, be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Cavino on Rich Live on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. It's the last game of the season and with amex, you can save time with card member entrances at select venues and go straight to the action so you can catch every moment. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more@american express.com with AmEx, when it comes to college basketball and the big tournament, one thing is for sure, nothing's for sure. Upsets, buzzer beaters, Cinderella advancing top seeds, going home early. It's all gonna happen. You know it. Bet the unexpected. Every upset, every day with DraftKings, sportsbook, live betting, exclusive content, promos and parlays. DraftKings is the ultimate college basketball destination for March. Are you ready to make your first bet? 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It's hour two all fired up live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be in Howard, however, you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Just flying through shows Rob Manfred, baseball commissioner, on yesterday baseball season weirdly, you know, kind of starts tonight and then with the tournament. So it's weird. I don't remember that being the case where usually you would start baseball yesterday. So I don't love like opening night necessarily being on March Madness night because I want to watch John Calipari in Duke, in Arizona and whatever. I will say there's a story this morning that the Cleveland Browns with the number two pick will not take Shador Sanders. Adam Schefter says they're probably gonna get Abdul Carter, who's a super good player, excellent kid at Penn State, probably the second most gifted player in the draft to Travis Hunter. And this is not a shot at Schefter. I think it could be a smokescreen. You get lied to a lot in the last three or four weeks before the draft. I've been told that for years. But but what. What is interesting is if Kevin Stefanski did pass on Shador Sanders now Aaron Rodgers dropped in the draft and so did Dan Marino. It can happen to anybody. Lamar Jackson, it can happen to anybody, right? So. But he is a pocket quarterback who's accurate and won't be very expensive. That is what Stefanski wants. So if it's right in his lap and he doesn't take him, that does make you wonder if there's a real and then after that the Patriots don't need the Giants could use a quarterback and if they passed on him, like what are we looking at here? Maybe New Orleans goes and gets him. So my take on Shedeur is to be that accurate with no running game, a mostly abysmal offensive line for two years is really hard to pull off. 74% accuracy is really hard to pull off. It'd be one thing if you're Will Howard at Ohio State and you've got two first round receivers, two running backs who will get drafted early and above average O line, that's a different ballgame. It's different. If Quinn Ewers did that at Texas, we're talking battle line, no run game, 74% completion percentage. That's damn impressive. So yesterday Julian Edelman talked about what he worries about with Shador Sanders. My number one thing with Shador is can he break down the protections. He's not a mobile guy, he's a pocket passer. We all keep on saying he's a pocket passer. So for me, if I'm a general manager, if I'm a team, I want to see how good he is with his protections.

[Bill Simmons]

It's ultimately going to come down to.

[Colin Cowherd]

The offensive coordinator he gets paired up with in that relationship and how he handles protections. Okay? So again, I like him more than I think draft people do. J. Mac and I don't see him plummeting in the draft but Marino did and he's an all timer and so is Aaron Rodgers. He's an all timer. So and I've said this, there's only two guys in this draft who I think are would be great in any draft, Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter. I do think there's only one player in this draft that will turn around a franchise and that is the kid Cam Ward who would go to Tennessee. I think he would start and be a dynamic player. I don't know if Shador is that. Could Shedeur be more Geno Smith? He's accurate. He sits in the pocket, good guy. When he gets a decent coach he can win games, maybe get you to the playoffs. That could be his comp. I mean he's not Joe Burrow, he's not running around like Lamar, Josh Allen, he's not that. But he is a pocket guy. But pocket guys golf succeeds Burrows mostly that Geno got to the playoffs. He's mostly that. Okay, so we said they call it the dog days of summer in baseball which starts tonight. Take out the Tokyo series, Cubs, Dodgers. But it's a little dog days in the NBA where teams like Boston and Denver and Cleveland that have roster rhythm for several years kind of reducing minutes. Lakers are different ball game. Austin Rivers, LeBron and Luke have played 12 games, got a Brooklyn feel a few years ago. They just haven't played basketball together and they're very clearly not the same team when LeBron's not on the floor. And with that we bring in Rachel Nichols Fox Sports NBA analysts doing that since the early 90s. And she is now joining us. How can you be covering the NBA that long?

[Rachel Nichols]

Exactly. I started as a child. No, I started in college because what I got to do is I went to Northwestern and I was a stringer for the Washington Post and I got to cover the 90s bulls as a 19 and 20 year old and just kept going since. So it was been a pretty great ride.

[Colin Cowherd]

You and Mike Greenberg, I think.

[Rachel Nichols]

Exactly.

[Colin Cowherd]

He was covering them too.

[Rachel Nichols]

Exactly.

[Colin Cowherd]

So he said to us about the Lakers, you watched it last night is that LeBron's first half was by LeBron standard 3/4 rough, maybe in his worst half ever as a pro. Offensively, yeah, but I do think they're in a weird spot. They could get to a two seed. They could also fall to a playing game. They play the Rockets Thunder warriors at Chicago's tricky. That team can shoot. I look at them and I think to myself they have to play hard the rest of the way.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah, absolutely. Look, the offense is still working itself out. They completely changed the way they played once Luka Doncic came into town, which is exactly what they should have done. But it takes a while. I am not worried about the offense. LeBron is still working his way back from injury. They're all still learning how to play together. They are going to be fine. Teams pick their poison with Luka, they have to decide what to do and usually teams end up blitzing him, which leaves someone else open and he's a great passer. So they will figure it out. Offensively, the issue is the defense. And frankly we had Rob Pelinka sit up on the stage when Luka Doncic was introduced and tell us this. Not that we didn't know, but I'm saying even the Lakers and understood that once you trade away AD you have a front court defensive problem and they were not able to fix it before the trade deadline and they are going to try to fix it this summer. But there is a limitation of how far you can go if you have that kind of hole. And it's great that they played so well defensively in the weeks after the Luka Doncha trade. But that required 150% effort from every guy every minute on the floor. That is not sustainable. And it was also more of a swarming sort of switchy defense. Guys figure that out, the more tape they have on you, it's leaving a lot of guys open and leaving themselves open to exploitive matchups. And by the way, they're letting guys shoot Threes right and left. That's going to bite you in the playoffs too.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah, it is. For the record, Jared Vanderbilt didn't have to score last night. He's still wildly valuable. Sure. Like Jared Vanderbilt is like wildly important for this basketball team.

[Rachel Nichols]

Jackson Hayes. I mean, yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yes. You know, it's interesting. I got an NBA guy who I have deep respect for. Tom Tolbert texted me yesterday. He said, hey, be careful about your cynicism of okc. He said, here's stats that are really important. They lead the league in creating turnovers and are last in committing them huge. Which by the way, shows you a maturity which is beyond the years of a team. They're a smart basketball team. When you talk to people in the league, because I have questions about their young players in road playoff environments, what do the people around the league think?

[Rachel Nichols]

Oh, they think they're for real, for sure. And look, there is the fact that this group of guys has not gotten past the second round. And therefore, when the bright lights come on of the conference finals and the NBA finals, are they going to be able to match up against the teams that have so much experience? I mean, the Boston Celtics, I mean, they've been in the finals what, three of the last four years. I mean, it's just they're playing against teams in some cases that have a lot more of know how of how to do those situations. That being said, number one, overall, offensively, number four defensively, this is a team that knows how to play together. They've been playing together a long time. They have an excellent coach of the year coach and they are ready. They have the MVP candidate. I mean, they really feel like they are ready to make a move. And people around the league have an enormous amount of respect for them, especially since the rest of the west, as you just pointed out with the Lakers, it's a crapshoot.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, in the east you can say, hey, the Celtics and the Cavaliers, they've really separated themselves. Anyone else would be upset?

[Colin Cowherd]

Knicks are third and they don't match up with those teams.

[Rachel Nichols]

Right. Anyone else? If they made it to the conference finals, it would be an upset. You can't say that in the West. I would, you know, write in the Thunderer just because they deserve that respect after what they've done this season, it could be one of what, six teams opposite them. A lot is going to depend on the bracket and who they face in the conference finals. The Thunder, if they do make it there, as we expect, that's going to determine if they get to the finals and can really make it on that stage.

[Colin Cowherd]

So when Adam Silver showed up on the show and I really like I can do Adam once a week. I think he's so smart. I did push back. I said, you guys get so paralyzed by trades. Memo. Everybody loves trades.

[Rachel Nichols]

Love it.

[Colin Cowherd]

By the way, they're fun. Shohei, Angels, Dodgers. Yes. It feels lopsided. Look at your numbers.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yes.

[Colin Cowherd]

So my take is I'm watching KD last night. He's auditioning. He's unbelievable. And by the way, he wanted to make sure Boston knew, yeah, I can score on your defense and your defense is unbelievable. He's averaged 37 a game, shooting 60% from the floor in the last three games. So. And it's interesting about the playoffs. Not only do I love the playoffs for their intensity, but they do show you very clear weaknesses of the Knicks.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Or the Bucks or the Lakers. I think KD now, J Mack disagrees. I think he's going to have a huge market of really good teams. What do you hear?

[Rachel Nichols]

I completely agree with you. Sorry, J. Mac, but you know, look, you And I were two of the people who 10 years ago were saying, man, KD's game, it's going to age well in this league. And guess what? I mean, it wasn't stunning insight, but we were right. Kevin Durant is still extremely valuable to have. And there are of course a lot of people back analyzing the trade with Brooklyn and saying that Phoenix gave up too much for him and they did give up a lot for him. But the fact that it hasn't been a more successful run there for Kevin Durant has really largely been about the Bradley Beal trade. It is about how handcuffed the team has been in his time there because Bradley Beal was acquired and his salary and his no trade clause and the lack of flexibility to build the roster around KD and Book the way they need to be built. And Bradley Beal is a great guy and he is a good basketball player. I think his skill has been sort of shaded by all the contract stuff around him, he is a good basketball player. He does not fit with Kevin Durant and Devin Book.

[Colin Cowherd]

It doesn't work.

[Rachel Nichols]

And in fact, not only just moving him to the bench, which they have done, when he doesn't play and he's out hurt right now, this team is 13 and three when he doesn't play and the other two do. Prior to losing to the Celtics the other night, which of course most people lose to the Celtics these days, they were 4, 0 including beating the Cavaliers without Bradley Beal. So to me, one of the big questions of where does KD go this summer? It could be the Miami who wants him. It could be the Rockets who want him. However, maybe there's a voice of he could stay in Phoenix if they can get Bradley Beal to accept and want a trade and another team to want him with that deal. But Brad said some interesting things recently. He said, look, in the middle of the season, there's too much going on. I didn't want to do a trade at the deadline. He said, this summer you can lay everything out and get a better sense of what you want and where you want to go. And if Phoenix is messaging him right now, we are not playing you. At some point, Bradley Beal wants to play basketball.

[Colin Cowherd]

Sure.

[Rachel Nichols]

And so he is going to look around a little more than he has the past couple years and say, okay, maybe this team wants me and I want to go play for them. If they get that flexibility and freedom, I'd be curious at least what the possibilities are. And they're few because they've traded away all of their draft picks, but they're few. If you could keep Kevin Durant and Booker together because I do think they play great together. Together.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. The. You know, I was watching Cooper Flag plays tonight and I was telling people you're much younger, so you remember some of this. And being on the east coast, you remember a lot of it because I was a West coast kid and love the Big East. Pac 10 basketball. Didn't care I was a Big east. But me too.

[Rachel Nichols]

Georgetown, D.C. girl.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. So basically, if you're 20, if you're under 35 years old, you don't remember what college basketball and the NBA used to have this symbiotic relationship. You had about nine Cooper Flags a year that you loved in college, went to the NBA and were really good immediately.

[Rachel Nichols]

I did well.

[Colin Cowherd]

Now Cooper Flagg is an outlier where like, could he be a second team All Stars and he may be in the east if he landed somewhere. Yeah. Is that last year's draft was wildly international and nobody can name the first eight players drafted the. I mean the NBA. Do you think the NBA. And it's kind of a theoretical question, but I think it's so fascinating because he is so good. Do you think the NBA realizes deep down that they thought they could do it with themselves for the G League and part of this ratings regression. It's not politics. We need college basketball as our feeder system. Look at the ratings for women's and men's March Madness. It's crazy.

[Rachel Nichols]

No, it was great in those days for the NBA. The problem is they don't control it. You know they could possibly. They're talking about lowering the age limit again back to 18. They could possibly decide, I've always said, why not make it 20. As long as there is a feasible route in the G League for guys who are turning 18 to make money. Because you don't want to impact these guys ability to be professionals. The rest of the world gets to work as late teenagers and 18, 19, 20 year olds. You don't want to limit these guys ability to earn a living. But if there is a route for that. But it doesn't have to be the NBA where they earn a living. If there is a route for them to play professional basketball both internationally and here in the US and you raise the age limit to 20, you would get more developed players entering the NBA. You'd be able to scout them better because you can see guys like Cooper Flag coming a mile away. But there's a ton of guys who maybe were scouted one way and they turned into another way. Janicente Kounmpo. Nobody thought he was going to be him. No one thought that Nikola Jokic was going to be who he's turned out to be. So there are still guys who if they had another year or two to develop, especially in college American players, you'd be able to know who they were more and they would be delivered to the NBA as more developed products. I am in the minority. I am the only one I hear saying raise the age limit, don't lower it. But that is how I feel in terms of that question you just asked.

[Colin Cowherd]

So I proposed it this week that there are solvable and unsolvable problems. Problems. The NFL had the concussion issue. It was solvable. Pay attention to it. Don't roll your eyes at it.

[Rachel Nichols]

Right.

[Colin Cowherd]

And change the rules.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah.

[Colin Cowherd]

Steroids. Solvable. More testing. Yeah. And then there are unsolvable issues. Football is a violent game. Guys get hurt. Seriously. That's just the way it works. I think load management is a bit more solvable because the young players like playing.

[Rachel Nichols]

Playing.

[Colin Cowherd]

And also we're not going to give you awards unless you play a minimum out games. I think tanking is unsolvable. I think it is the unsolvable issue because in March if I can get Cooper Flag, nine of my guys have a chest cold.

[Rachel Nichols]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Colin Cowherd]

You can't. There's. I'm sorry, but the league, if you look at the greatest players ever, they've Often ended up on teams. San Antonio was planning on Wemby three years ago.

[Rachel Nichols]

I mean, look, tanking is not solvable. You are 100% correct. Because look, the spurs, how they ended up getting Tim Duncan was that David Robinson had an injury and then he just seemed to have an injury the entire year. And then they got Tim Duncan and the next year Tim Duncan and David Robinson played together. Man, that's amazing. So it's not solvable in terms of we're done with it. But I will say the league has gotten itself into more trouble because of the way the contract situations have worked out and they've made efforts on the other end. They've tried to flatten lottery odds. But the truth is that in 2016, because ownership around the league didn't like that Kevin Durant went to the Golden State Warriors. They invented the supermax. And the supermax was supposed to get guys to stay with the teams that drafted them more. The problem with that, though, was that you had uneven situations around the league because you had teams that just weren't in the right draft at the right time.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's right.

[Rachel Nichols]

And guys, your team and owners felt bad about that. So then they created all these aprons. There's the first apron, there's the second apron. Guy Fieri is apparently managing the NBA. I mean, there's all of this stuff that restricts teams and movement and trades and all of the other things that the only really viable way to start from scratch and rethink your team is to tank. And in fact, Matt Ishbia, the owner of the Phoenix Suns, just gave a really good interview and he talked about, hey, we are never going to do that here. We are never going to clear the decks and tank. We want to win every year. We are going to try to win every year. And that's great. And fans applauded it. Everyone around the league, in every front office you talk to, guys were sort of sending me quotes, sending me quotes from that article. Hahaha. New owner syndrome. He doesn't get it yet. Doesn't he know it's literally the only way to do it? We saw it with the Houston Rockets a few years ago and now they're number two in the West. I mean, we've seen it over and over. So the league has contributed to creating this problem because owners want to stop themselves from overspending. And then it's not fair over there. It's not fair that way. It's not fair that way. It's not the league office's fault. I think the ownership has to take a look at itself in the mirror, at the situation that they have put themselves in and why so many of them have to tank and then have terrible ticket sales for a couple of years in a row. I mean, it's, it's just cyclical.

[Colin Cowherd]

Yeah. By the way, the last three minutes of Rachel Nichols, it should be played over and over and over because that is the truth in all of this. And I said to Adam when he was on this show, I said, adam, you're paralyzed by trades. Kevin Durant and the warriors were the highest rated team. Of course you couldn't turn them off. Yes, it made people briefly uncomfortable. So did Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe made people uncomfortable. For the record, Michael won six MVPs and went 6 and 6 in the Finals. Bill Russell, as the league was being formed and popularized, won 11 titles. Dynasties, UConn, women's and men's basketball, they're not the worst thing.

[Rachel Nichols]

No, they're popular. Dynasties sell. Casual fans get invested in them. But it's not a front office issue. Adam Silver can't solve that when he has owners around the league at the owners meetings saying, that's not fair, that's not fair. Let's make a new rule. That's not fair.

[Colin Cowherd]

The other thing that made Katie work in Golden State was Steph was on a cheap deal because of his injuries.

[Rachel Nichols]

It was such a crazy confluence of events.

[Colin Cowherd]

It was a complete confluence of events. He shouldn't have been under that contract.

[Rachel Nichols]

The salary cap blew up in a big bubble. The way it's not going to this time around. They're going to distribute the TV money more evenly. Over the years, there were so many things about Katie going to the warriors that were not replicatable, and yet they made all these rules. And then all those rules created new problems, and then that's now created this problem. So again, I don't think you're ever going to solve tanking Spurs, David Robinson, Tim Duncan. But I do think that they have gotten themselves into this pickle more where it is the only route now. And that is creating an issue for fans who want to watch good basketball games. I mean, you watch some of these games right now and it's like you can't even pick out the so many two way guys on the floor. You can't even pick out who's playing.

[Colin Cowherd]

That's why I, I watched the Celtic Suns last night. Tatum's actually hurt, which is never hurt, but it was fun because it was like KD was playing, like he was showing off to the league.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, the Suns have none of their own first round draft picks till 20, you know, through 2031, so they, they don't have to tank. They can't tank. It doesn't help them at all. Helps the Houston Rockets. So they're going to put it all out there and Boston's getting ready for a championship run. But there aren't that many of those games, Colin. There are the games the other way around a lot of the time.

[Colin Cowherd]

All right, almost professorial. Just, just, you should have grabbed a dais, sat up there and told the league how it works. All getting smarter. Rachel Nichols, great seeing you as always.

[Rachel Nichols]

Thank you so much, Colin.

[Colin Cowherd]

Live in la, it's the Herd. This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser Podcast. Have you guys seen this new commercial from Stand up to All Hate? It's basically Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady going back and forth with reasons that they hate each other. But then when you really listen to them, the reasons for the hate are just so stupid. I don't know. This, this commercial really got me. It' strong reminder that hate in our country continues to be out of control. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up. Call it out. Your voice is a powerful tool in this fight. You can learn more by following Hat's upwithhate. The Unshakables podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business as he welcomes a very special Guest, chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Co.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, so we all need to get.

[Rachel Nichols]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Rachel Nichols]

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Yeah, that's a real getaway.

[Rachel Nichols]

Drive the all new 2025 Nissan Murano today. Bose and massaging leather appointed seats are optional Features.

[Colin Cowherd]

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