Jimmy Johnson (3:41)

One and three Sunday.

Colin Cowherd (3:42)

Not great, but all right. We do it every Monday at this time. It's called Colin. Right? Colin Wrong. Here we go. Where Colin was right. Debo to Washington. Both J. Mack and I thought this was an OB one. He's a great chess piece. He's not your classic wide receiver, but for the right kind of play, designer Cliff Kingsbury. I think it makes a ton of sense. He's only had 1,000 yard receiver, but I think, you know, I think Belichick in New England did this for years when they find chess pieces. Andy Reid does a good job with this. I like Deebo. I think it was time to move on and I think Washington's the perfect fit. And we predicted it. Where Colin was right, we said Matt Stafford we thought would stay with the Rams, but the Raiders were making a real push. It's been announced yesterday the Raiders offered, and this was our guess, 100 million, 50 million guaranteed. Two years. I thought the Raiders would go to a third year to get him. They didn't and therefore he stayed with the Rams. I was told the Rams wanted him. They feel they're too close to a Super bowl and another trophy to move off him. Matt didn't make a lot of money last year relative to other star quarterbacks. He wanted a better deal. He'll get it. Where Colin was raw. I thought Travis Kelce would retire. I thought it was time. I thought he looked tired in the super bowl and he only had three playoff games. One touchdown catch. He still blocks. He's still tough. He's still great. On third down, he's got a Year left and let's be honest about this, you'd rather have Travis Kelce on your team than not. He tends to be a very good big game player, but I had predicted that. I thought this was with Taylor Swift, his life, his podcast. It was a perfect time. He's had almost 10 surgeries, but he's coming back at least for one more year. Where Colin was right. I love Kevin Durant, but story this weekend he's going to get traded by Phoenix and he has been reduced to a guy that scores 27 a night on bad teams. And I think he's really valuable. I still think he's got two or three huge years left. I wish he would have considered the Warriors. He wasn't comfortable with that. Can't blame him, I guess. But you know, five years ago we were talking about is he better than LeBron? And maybe he doesn't care, but I feel like his legacy, I hope it remains all time top 10. Stop. Because he's one of the best basketball players I've ever seen. Where Colin was right. I didn't like Aaron Rodgers using his leverage to bring in Nathaniel Hackett and Alan Lazard and Devonte Adams. And story this morning, the jets are going to move off Vonte Adams, who I like a lot. But in the end, I think GM should, GM coaches should coach, quarterback, should quarterback. Listen, you know how hard it is to be a good GM and a good coach quarterback. Do what they do and that's okay. Aaron's a smart guy, but I never thought it was going to work. I didn't think having your buddies on the team matters. Sometimes being a great quarterback is being uncomfortable. Not just comfortable where Colin was wrong. You know, I've been skeptical on Bill Belichick at college, but he has signed up for HBO Max. They do that hard Knock show which no coach likes. He would never do it in the NFL and it tells me that Bill is a little bit more committed to the college game. And by the way, a couple of Bill's friends are Jimmy Johnson and Urban Meyer. So I mean, he's got guys leaning on him if he has to have questions about it. But I have always thought this was kind of a one and done. But I think him going to Hard Knock shows Bill's willing to get uncomfortable because he would have never done this in the NFL and he's doing it now in college where Colin was right. Well, I predicted one of my five bold NBA predictions with Paul George and Joel Embiid would not even play 20 games together. And it's been announced that Joel Embiid shutting her down for the season so they will not play 20 games together. Listen, Embiid's an unbelievable talent, but bigs who get hurt early get hurt often. And this has been, we've got to be honest, been a disappointing career considering many were comping him to Shaq five years ago, where Colin was right. Ashton Genty, the running back from Boise State, announced this weekend. He said running backs are not only back, they're kind of integral to football. Yes. When the media a year ago said running backs are being treated unfairly, I said they're going to get paid. Running backs are a quarterback's best friend, especially in December, January and February when it gets cold and windy. They get first downs, they block for you. It's easier to find them out of the backfield. Running backs will always matter in the NFL. They create physicality, especially if they can do multiple things, which Genty can do. Look at Saquon Barkley's value, Derrick Henry's value in Baltimore. I think there's been a wide receiver bubble in the NFL. I never think there's a running back bubble. I will take a star running back. Physical toughness can block a little, catch a little any day of the week. Colin, right? Colin Wrong. On a Monday. Well, Jimmie Johnson, I've said this before. There's been a handful of people in my life. When I used to do the weekend shows at Fox, I would hurry up and get the makeup on and then I would go into the break room and I would basically pester Jimmy Johnson for 30 minutes, asking about pulling guards and slot receivers. And Jimmy Johnson would patiently answer all my minutia and nonsense. And he is joining us now live, the hall of Famer, the two time super bowl champ. So I owe you a debt of gratitude as I ask you about roverbacks and nickel coverage and dial coverage. And you would smile at me impatiently as I sat there eating food and asking. And I just want to say thank you for that. Even in your off season, you're willing to come on the show. So thank you. A genuine thank you from me, Jimmy.

Jimmy Johnson (9:25)

Well, thank you, Colin. As you know, probably the most fun I've ever had in my career, and that's counting Super Bowls and national championships, was at Fox Sports. You know, I have an absolute ball with my friends on the set and the best friends I've ever had there with Fox. And then I tell you, on top of that, you know, I love working for Eric Shanks, our CEO and our producer, Bill Richards. But I'VE made a extremely difficult decision. I've been thinking about it for the last four or five years, and I've decided to retire from Fox, and I'm going to miss it. I'm going to miss all the guys, and I'll see them occasionally. But it has been a great run.

Colin Cowherd (10:14)

Starting back 31 years ago, you know, it's being met. I got a call this weekend from Shanks, and this is something inside the building. We knew it was coming over the last couple years, and they've talked you into it. One of the ways you are viewed in the building is the way you were viewed as a football coach. You're kind of the general manager and the coach of the show. Otherwise, you know, Bradshaw, he'll never stop talking. And, you know, basically, you have to. You have to coach the guys on the set. But. And don't be humble for a second. I think you loved that, is that you viewed your. That's how we viewed you. You were the coach on the set behind the scenes. And if you could for a moment share that with the audience. Why you love that.

Jimmy Johnson (11:03)

Well, you know, I guess it goes back to all the years that I coached, and you look at the guys on the set, you know, not only are they best friends, but, you know, I watched Terry play in college when he was at Woodlawn High School and we recruited him for Louisiana Tech. I coached Howie Long in the Blue Gray game when he just left Villanova. I had Michael Strahan there in Dallas, and I was going to draft him. And he reminds me of it many, many times. It was a mistake. I was trying to get him cheap, and New York jumped in front of me, so I wasn't able to draft him. I actually had a scout in his home on draft day, and so we're all very, very close. And Kurt Menefee was. He was in Dallas when I was in Dallas. And so it was just natural for me to be somewhat of a coach. And Bill Richards, who, you know, I love to death, you know, he kiddingly calls me my. Calls me assistant producer, because I would have suggestions on what to do on maybe our on the field segment, etc. So I just kind of played the same role that I played for many, many years as a head football coach.

Colin Cowherd (12:17)

You know, Jimmy, there's a handful of people that have done it, none better than you. You were a dominant college coach. That's hard. Then you were a dominant NFL coach. I think that's harder. You were also. Then you're a Hall of Famer. Broadcasting hall of Famer, they're all hard. How are you able? College coaching and pro coaching is different now. It's a little more similar now than it was in your day. Was there ever a moment you're a Hall of Famer? Football broadcasting college. Do guys like you ever have self doubt? Was there ever a moment in Dallas that first year you thought this is a. I've been asked to chew a lot. I'm not sure I bit off too much.

Jimmy Johnson (13:05)

Colin? Absolutely not. I can, I can tell you the story and Dave Wanstead and Tony Wise, they can verify this. When I was at Oklahoma State University, I went to a little restaurant and we were struggling. I said, you know, guys, hang with me, we're going to win a national championship. We were at Ancestor restaurant and we ended up winning a national championship at University of Miami because I took all of them with me and we were going through that one in 15 year. We went to a little Mexican restaurant right there close to Valley Ranch and I told the guys, I said, listen, I said, we're making some moves now that are going to hurt us in the short term. We traded our starting quarterback, we cut the leading receiver because he couldn't play the caliber that we wanted and we made some trades, obviously trading Herschel Walker, but we made 51 trades in five years. And I told the guys, I said, listen, I know it's a real struggle right now, but you hang with me because we're going to win a Super bowl and that's it. I mean, I might have sounded like a crazy man because we were going 1 in 15, but I say we're making some moves now that are going to help us three years from now. And so you say, was there any doubt? No, there wasn't any doubt. And it wasn't that. We had a dream and I said this at the hall of Fame induction. We didn't dream. We truly believed that we were going to get it done. I think if you believe that you're going to get it done, you work to make it happen. If you dream, you're hoping that it happens. But we work to make sure it happened.

Colin Cowherd (14:42)

You know, I think more than ever coach and quarterback, I've always said this. If you get the coach right and the quarterback right, everything else will work itself out. Every you'll figure it out. I've said Sean Payton and Bo Nix that I got Sean, I got Bo Nix. I don't know what's going to happen if they win trophies, but they're going to be fine in Denver. They're going to be fine. But. But quarterbacks now make 70 million, 60 million. There's their social media, stars, shoe deals. You didn't deal with that, but I still contend that the Andy Reid's and the Peytons and the guys like you, you just make it work. I look at you and Troy, Troy gets emotional. When you got into hall of Fame, I'm watching that, that makes me emotional. What was the relationship even then? Because Troy was getting banged up, he was getting criticized. Quarterbacks go 1 in 15. They don't, you know, Dallas media was not giving you guys a pass. How did your relationship get so tight? Or was it always like that?

Jimmy Johnson (15:45)

No, it wasn't always. Right. I actually tried to recruit Troy to Oklahoma State there in Henrietta, Oklahoma. I was in his home when he was a sophomore and junior, and Troy was just here at the house two weeks ago. We had a strained relationship that first year because I drafted Steve Walsh with a supplemental pick. And I knew Troy was our guy, but I wanted to take Steve Walsh because quarterbacks are so valuable. I knew that I would be able to trade him. I actually started trying to trade Steve Walsh a month or two after I drafted him, but I had to kind of walk a tight rope because I couldn't brag on Troy knowing that I was going to trade Steve Walsh. So I had to kind of brag on both of them. I kept saying we got two quarterbacks, but I knew exactly what I was going to do. And then I ended up trading Walsh for a one, two and a three. But that upset Troy that I didn't go all in on him that first year. But after the first year, then, you know, I started making overtures to Troy to get our relationship better. And like I said, we're best friends now. He was just here two weeks ago. So, yeah, again, it was a strained relationship because of the way we were dealing with things. Plus, we went 1 in 15. That'll strain any relationship. But it got better and now it's fantastic.

Colin Cowherd (17:11)

You know, Bill Belichick, I remember when he left New England, I think he was grateful for Bob Kraft. But in the end, richer owners now, Jimmy, they're all billionaires. And the richer owners get. They'll just run. They'll 50 million to rounding air. They'll just blow out his staff. I have never seen more impulsive owners in my life. In the NFL, there used to be one crazy guy or two. Now it feels like half the league's owners think they're coaches. And when Belichick left, he acknowledged that you had relationships that may have been impulsive, but you turn it into championships. Do you think it's harder to coach today? I mean, there's a lot of ways it could be easier. But the owners, Jimmy, they're all billionaires. And that has a way of making owners think they know a lot more football than they do.

Jimmy Johnson (18:05)

Yeah, I think it's. It's more difficult with the owners. But what makes it a lot easier is if you got a great quarterback, if you got a great quarterback, that you can overcome a lot of things. But, you know, you're talking about billions of dollars. And, you know, Jerry and I, our relationship was fine for a while because he borrowed $140 million. He was trying to pay off that loan. So he spent all of his time trying to make money to pay off the loan. So he really didn't bother me. Now, once he got the loan paid off, after we won the first super bowl, he wanted to jump in the football business. But, yeah, I think the relationship with Bill and crap probably was a little there at the end. I told Bill, in fact, he came down here right after he left New England with his girlfriend, and I was talking to him and I said, you know, yeah, the NF NFL stuff, but, you know, college football with the Nil and the transfer portal, that's a headache. He said, yeah, but they were headaches in the pro football as well.

Colin Cowherd (19:13)

Yeah. When you ultimately made this decision, if you just joined us, Jimmy Johnson has announced his retirement from Fox. You kept coming back, and we talked into it about four different times. That's the truth. And I. There are people in the hallway this morning that are a little melancholy about all this. How do you hope. I mean, you achieved everything. Three different hall of Fames. How do you hope you're viewed?

Jimmy Johnson (19:48)

How do I.

Colin Cowherd (19:51)

Obviously, you're successful. You're successful at three different hall of Fames. What matters if somebody. If I'd never met Jimmy Johnson. I walked up to somebody said, tell me about Jimmy Johnson. What? At a value level. What matters to Jimmy Johnson? Why? What?

Jimmy Johnson (20:05)

Your relationships, you know, the guys that were here. Like I said a couple of weeks ago, some of my former coaches and Troy and players, etc. Yeah, they were talking about it. I said, you know, the thing I try to do is I try to bring out the best in everybody. Everybody that I came into contact with, and I tried to have some interaction. The way you bring out the best in people is you have interaction with them, you communicate with them. The biggest problems I ever had with anybody is when I didn't communicate. And that's what happened to Jerry. And I own our relationship until it got fixed here later on is we stop communicating. And, you know, it. It never gets better if you don't talk about it. It never gets better if you don't interact. And, you know, not. Not necessarily, you know, pumping somebody up and praising them, but, you know, just acknowledging them, you know, and saying, hey, you need to pick it up a little bit. You know, maybe in a kidding way, but you need to have some interaction with individuals. But I tried to bring out the best in everybody that I came into contact with. I don't care what their role was. I don't care how important they were. I don't care if they were a Hall of Fame player or an intern on our set. I tried. I tried to bring out the best in everybody.

Colin Cowherd (21:27)

How are you going to watch football next year and not send Eric Shanks written notes on email about things he needs to tweak?

Jimmy Johnson (21:39)

Colin, I've got three TVs set up, and you know how much I love watching football. Terry Bradshaw, he told me that day before yesterday, he said, God, you're gonna be able to sit at home and watch all those college games without me, and you're gonna watch all those pro games without me. I said, yeah, but I'll be watching them with a cold beer.

Colin Cowherd (22:01)

Absolute pleasure. One of the best people I've and smartest people I've ever met in this business. And you've always treated not only people behind the scenes here, interns, producers, nobody sees, but I just want to put it out there. You treated me great and I appreciate it.

Jimmy Johnson (22:18)

Coach Colin, I loved every minute of it. And thank you. I appreciate it. And hey, thanks to Flock Sports. I mean, it was really the best time of my entire career. And you mentioned the hall of Fame, college hall of Fame, pro hall of Fame broadcasting. The best time of my career was with. With Fox Sports.

Colin Cowherd (22:41)

Great to see you, Jimmy. Thanks, man. The great Jimmy Johnson retiring at Fox. You know, I had all these football questions I was going to ask him. Yeah, forget it. Doesn't matter. Let's talk about the stuff that matters for people that don't know. Behind the scenes, Jimmy was essentially, along with Bill Richards, that's been number one for, I think, 31 years in a row. The Fox show's been number one for 31 years in a row. Bill Richards is the producer. And it's a lot. It's a lot. There's a lot of live shows and it's, you do live television. You bounce around a city to city to city. It's a lot of work. It is hard and on any given segment it can go sideways fast. And the guy on the set that was the glue. Menifee, the host obviously, and and Jimmy Johnson. And with that we take a break. Jimmy Johnson retiring from Fox Sports. It's the herd. One more herd. 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You know, it's funny, I I believe in analytics, but there are certain players that are just a good vibe. They're just good energy in the room and it's like, that's Jimmy Butler. Like in Golden State. Steph's like showing off like you're a good hang. It's a good hang. I'm gonna tell a story. Let me tell a story before we go into video Low energy cowherd before this Sunday, the NASCAR cup series heads to FS1 with some door to door action at the Jewel of the Desert in Phoenix. Free race kicks off at 2 Eastern with the green flag flying at 3:30 on FS1. So like, if you're ever gonna go like on a Vegas trip with buddies or a golf trip with buddies, there's a saying or a question you often ask when you're organizing it. Is he a good hang? Can you hang around him for four or five days? A lot of guys are a bad hang. They're cheap, they're weird, they're needy, they drink too much, they say inappropriate stuff. They're not ill meaning, but like, are they a good hang? If you're going to be with guys for five days, you're going on a rafting trip or a Vegas trip. Are they a good hang? Some people just bring really good energy. They're easy to be around. They may be intense, but they're just something about it. The analytics said Jimmy Butler to the warriors may not be a perfect fit. They're now 8 and 1. They're 8 and 1. The night that Steph had 56, Jimmy Butler had five. It doesn't matter. It's like Steph Curry's taking one more shot a game since Jimmy Butler arrived and averaging seven more points. I looked at the stats Turnover differential. Warriors are now first in the league. Assists a game, first. Free throw percentage, first. Like, it's just good vibes. He's just good juice. He's tough, he's intentional, he's physical. In the NFL, we call these force multipliers. They're just guys you put in a room and they make everybody better. And a lot of times analytics can't capture this stuff. Analytics will like certain guys. And I'm like, yeah, they're a bad hang. It's bad energy. And that's why I kept saying, just get Jimmy Butler on the Warriors. I'm watching the warriors play. Steph had no energy. Nothing against Draymond. Draymond's not a big score. It's like they just, they just needed a second behind their ace. And sometimes you need a great motivational speaker. Have a, you have a Tony Robbins come in and talk to your company. It's nothing against your boss, it's nothing against Steve Kerr. But I mean, it's the NBA. There's, if you get to the playoffs, there's 100 games a year. How many times can you give a pep talk? And this team just needed juice. It just needed good vibes. And Andrew Wiggins was sort of. Jimmy Butler is the, he's the anti Andrew Wiggins. He comes with physicality, intensity, even at shoot around. Like, you never have to ask, is Jimmy Butler on the floor? And I'd said this for years about Jimmy, Andrew Wiggins, I'd seen him play live four or five times. He could drop 28 points. When he was at Minnesota, I never knew if he was on the floor. Like, you always know when Jimmy Butler's on the floor. He's getting fouled, he's fouling, he's getting to the line. He's trash talking. And it's the same with LeBron and Luca. LeBron like has a new energy and a new joy. Steph Curry's plan out of his mind. Even guys like Michael Jordan and Kobe sometimes had to create obsessed guys had to create motivation. And I mean, Steph Curry, how fired up can a guy that's going to be first belt hall of fame get trying to be a 10th seed? So right now they are in the playoffs. And I, I've said this. Here is my NBA Finals bubble. I think there are six teams. Lakers, warriors, okc, Nuggets, Celtics, Cavs can win the championship. Knicks, I feel like just may not be able to defend the pick and roll good enough. Robinson's back. They'll be better defensively. I don't buy Houston. They can't shoot and I don't, I don't buy Memphis. I still think they're too young. But here's. Here is Steve Kerr on, on Jimmy Butler and what he brings.

Jimmy Johnson (30:39)

I think they complement each other really well. Jimmy's a phenomenal all around basketball player, two way player. He's at his best when the ball is moving. I think we can do a better job of getting him involved. It's still a work in progress but I love. Jimmy's fit here. I think he's, he's perfect next to.

Colin Cowherd (31:01)

Steph and Dre and it's showing obviously.

Jimmy Johnson (31:04)

I think we're 8 and 1 since we, we got him with him in the lineup.

Colin Cowherd (31:07)

That's not by accident. Yeah, it's not at all one NFL story and I was confused about this yesterday. We, we as a staff this morning, we're, we're kind of trying to figure out this jigsaw puzzle in Minnesota with Sam Darnold and I don't have a real strong take because any take I could have could be wrong. They could franchise tag him. I don't think they will. They. I. Tom Paulicero and Ian Rapaport are reporting yesterday. They're working on a deal with Sam Darnold and it is. No, that's what. It's a crazy story because they drafted J.J. mcCarthy, they have Daniel Jones and they're working on a deal. So it's funny, I think we forget this. Josh Allen was the MVP last season, right? It was going to be Lamar or Josh Allen. You do realize that Josh Allen last year had a couple of stinkers. He went 9 for 30 in a game against Houston and had a 56 passer rating. Remember that game? He also was awful against the Colts. No touchdown, two picks and a passer rating of 60. That's the MVP. We watched Patrick Mahomes struggle twice against the Raiders and be awful against the Eagles. Let's just remember that we have to be totally honest about this. Let's just talk about last year with Minnesota, a team picked for fourth. Okay. Sam Darnold played with a roster that wasn't as good as Mahomes roster and wasn't as good as Josh Allen's roster. Let's look at the splits on Sam Darnold. I think what Kevin O'Connell is saying is this guy's insanely talented. We're not sure JJ McCarthy is as good as him. So if you start looking at Sam Darnold last year, yes, he had a couple of really bad Games. But in the first 16 games of the year, 35 touchdowns, 12 picks, 14 and 2, 68% completion percentage. By the way, he lost his left tackle midway through the season and a passer rating of 106 and a half. Yes. Did he lose to the Rams? They had a better roster. Did he lose to the Lions in Detroit? Game of the decade? Yes, they had a better roster. So I mean, go back to Mahomes and Josh Allen that had, you know, better rosters. They had awful games. And so I think. And Minnesota was picked for third or fourth. Remember their over under was like, was it like six or something? So I think what Kevin O'Connell is saying is, listen, guys, don't go crazy on the last two games is that Sam Darnold is in his prime, put up insane numbers in a division in an NFC that was better this year than it was the previous two years. And we're going to negotiate with him. And I'm trying to figure out why they have JJ McCarthy and people are like, well, the injury, I don't know. I watch these young athletes, they're always healthier in rehab sooner than later. I don't think it's an injury. I think it's. They're looking at Sam Darnold and thinking, well, I mean, the Niners drafted a quarterback, they never played him much and they were fine like, like you, you, you, you. I mean RG3, you know, Washington moved off him to Kirk Cousins in the fourth round of the same draft and they were fine. I, I just Wonder if Kevin O'Connell saying, is everybody watching what happened? Like, this guy was a step below Josh Allen last year. You, you don't do that out of luck or good fortune. Minnesota was not a great roster. They had two really good receivers. So that's the only thing, I mean, that's, that's really the only thing I can figure out in Minnesota right now. Because the story is, according to legitimate reporters, they're working on a Sam Darnold deal in Minnesota. They're work and they're not doing franchise tag, which is a one year deal, they're working on a contract. I mean, honestly, we sat there this morning, I'm like, isn't Kevin O'Connell telling you now? Yesterday I theorized they're just saying nice things about him to get him on the market and pay him back for what he did to the team. But when two legitimate reporters come out and go, yeah, we're working on a deal with Sam and it's not a franchise, maybe Kevin O'Connell is just saying, go look at the numbers. You're being way too harsh on him. We watched Mahomes and Josh Allen have terrible Sundays. Okay, how about this? Listening to you, I just internalized and I'm like, well, what if Darnold looked around the landscape and said, I don't want to go to Vegas? Colts are nothing. I'm definitely not going back to New York. Hey, guys, I'll stay in Minnesota on a cheap deal. Give me 25, 30 million. Forget 40, 45. I don't need it. I'll take a cheaper deal to stay here, and I'll tutor McCarthy. You know, what if he's willing to take less to stay in Minnesota because he loves it there? Well, first of all, it's always been. You know, it's funny, they don't have Super Bowls, but I've never thought of Minnesota as poorly owned or poorly run. They've always been viable. They just. You know, it's like I've always thought the Minnesota Vikings, because the packers are in their division, we don't talk about them a lot. I've always thought they draft well, they develop, they're well owned. The Will family never. You know, you don't. You don't hear about chaos or nonsense. They always have the quarterback situation. I mean, I don't know. I just. I look at it and I think if Kevin O'Connell is willing to draft a quarterback and want to resign Darnold, then Darnold's better than all of us are giving him credit for. We are. We are punishing him because he didn't work with the Jets. Who works with the Jets? Nobody does. That's a. That's a fact. Ask Aaron Rodgers, who works with the Jets. Didn't you say Minnesota nice was like a thing? Is. That's like a known thing. I'm not. I've never been to that part of the country. It's beautiful. But I hear. No, it's great. It's a great place. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And, of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Cavino and Rich Live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Kobe Nonrich wherever you get your podcast. And of course on social media, that's Covino and Rich. Count your way into a perfect night with AMEX Gold. One restaurant, two friends, three amazing dishes and four times membership rewards points on purchases at restaurants and US Supermarkets. That's the powerful backing of American Express Terms Apply Capital. Learn more@americanexpress.com with Amex, you can count on T Mobile to help keep you connected from big cities to small towns on America's largest 5G network. Switch the T Mobile, keep your phone and they'll pay it off up to 800 bucks per line via prepaid card. Learn more@t mobile.com heap and switch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and elegant eligible carrier and timely redemption required card has no cash access and expires in six months. Hi everybody. This message is brought to you by the official Whiskey of the Herd with Colin Coward podcast, Green River Whiskey. As you know, we've been having some fun getting to know Green River Whiskey. Let me tell you, there's a ton of incredible stories to be told in its 140 year history. How's this? For example, Green River Whiskey was once the most advertised whiskey in the world, but just now they've launched their first advertising campaign in more than 100 years. You see, it seems the team from Green river in reviving the whiskey have accidentally also revived its resident ghost. And he's quite a character, spending his days reminding us to keep it simple, focus on the quality, and have a little fun along the way. So if you want to see the ghost of Green river come to Life, check out greenriverwhiskey on their YouTube channel or head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's to green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. Product of Green River Distilling Company Owensboro, Kentucky Alcohol by volume, varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly. I'm not a weatherman, but I'll give you a forecast. Snow and ice are coming and will make driving a challenge. Thankfully, the experts at Tire Rack know a thing or two about conquering winter's worst rain, sleet and slush. Whatever winter means to you. Tire Rack has tires that elevate traction and braking and keeping you safe all season tires, all weather tires and if you live where it snows a lot, dedicated winter tires. Just go to tirerack.com an easy to use shopping tool there will guide you to a personalized recommendation. The right tires for how, what and where you drive. Right now they have a full line of Falken tires. They ship them fast and free and they're backed by two years of free road hazard protection. Just go to tirerack.com Colin see their Falken test results and special offers. Tire Rack has thousands of recommended installers and offers the convenience of mobile tire installation. Great tires, great people, great deals. What more could you ask for? Tirerack.com Colin tirerack.com the way tire buying should be by the way, somebody just sent me. A friend inside the company sent me a text about this Celtics. I'm calling the Celtics the greatest roster construction I've ever seen. The fact that Tatum, Drew Holiday and Porzingis can be gone and Derrick White and Pritchard last night Both drop over 40, it's in. That's that. Nobody could do that. Now the Pistons, somebody sent me this. The old four Pistons that beat the Lakers similarly did not have a superstar, although it was Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace and Chauncey Billups, a Tayshawn Prince. I think the Celtics are a better version of that, a much better offense. Rip Hamilton was on that team as well. I think this team's better. But I would say this Celtics, those Pistons, you know, the Sonics, the Blazers, the Washington Bullets at the time, it's just incredible. And the other thing is people say, well, how come he always makes all NBA? Remember the NBA came out with that, that 65 game minimum to make awards. Tatum always plays 65 games, you know, like, like, like sometimes. Is LeBron going to do that? Is AD gonna do that? Is Giannis gonna do that? Is, is, is Luca gonna do that? So Tatum's going to make the lists. That doesn't necessarily mean anybody thinks he's Jokic, but if you go look at Jokic, Stefan Giannis and LeBron when they're off the team is noticeably worse. This team's 10 and 2 without Tatum and scores eight more points a game. It shows you how unbelievably historic the Celtics roster is. I mean, I think Cleveland could win the championship in almost any other year in the last seven or eight. I just don't think they'll get through Boston. So. So I know Celtic fans think this is hate. It's like, no, this is the greatest non superstar team ever. You just keep telling me Tatum's a superstar and I'm just telling you he's a star. He, he and Jaylen Brown are, are Tatum's better. It's close. So I love this. The other day, Shaq came on after Steph went into the garden and, you know, rocked another one. Just a great night. And Shaq came on the air and giving the ultimate respect to Steph Curry.

Jimmy Johnson (42:53)

I demand you fans to start putting.

Colin Cowherd (42:55)

Steph Curry in that greatest of all time conversation. Just start putting him in the conversation. So the conversation of Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, start putting stuff in that conversation. I demand it. Why does the big man alliance need to say something? Because I am the supreme leader and my voice counts. You know what I'm saying? Listen, I played against, Mike played with Kobe, played against and with LeBron. They're all great. But you go, at some point we're gonna have to put Steph, Steph Curry in that category. I think the greatest compliment about Steph Curry that I could pay him is I think you have to consider replacing Magic Johnson on the all time starting five. I'm not saying you do it. You got to consider it. Now we all know Kareem lebron and mj. Those are etched in stone. Kareem most unstoppable shot. Michael the most relentless, greatest player, and LeBron the greatest Swiss army knife. We can argue about forwards, Duncan Bird, whatever you want, but we have three etched in stone. I always thought it was four. I always thought Magic was etched in stone. But if you look, one of the reasons that LeBron and, and you know, would wear well, because LeBron would be good 50 years ago, good 10 years ago, good today, good 20 years ago. LeBron's everything. I don't think Magic, he would be great today, but I don't think his game ages as well. I think Larry Bird's game ages better than Magic's because of the three ball. I think Larry Bird today would be, I mean, what would he be? He would be Luca. I mean he, he would be Luke in better shape. That would be Larry Bird. He Would be unbelievable passer, unbelievable score. Not a great defender, but he'd be Luke in better shape. You couldn't stop him. He'd score whatever he, he would score 40 points regularly. He could score 50 if you wanted to. Bird ages very well. Magic's not a shooter, and it's a shooter's league. That's why I don't like the Houston Rockets in the playoffs. They can't shoot. I don't want to hear about their athletes. They can't shoot. And so, but if you've never seen Steph play, never seen him play, here is, think about this. This is how you would describe his game. He scores faster than any human being ever. Like, remember when Reggie Miller got like eight points in nine seconds? That's Steph's entire career. He scores faster than anybody. So he changed. I mean, Magic Johnson may have saved the NBA, but Steph Curry revolutionized not only the NBA, International high school, AAU and college basketball. Here's Steve Kerr talking about his best player. Steph is the most unique superstar of all time. The way he impacts the game is different.

Jimmy Johnson (45:27)

And so when you have these conversations.

Colin Cowherd (45:28)

About who's the greatest ever, you know.

Jimmy Johnson (45:30)

You automatically go to these, you know.

Colin Cowherd (45:33)

Genetic Marvels, you know, LeBron and, and, and Michael Jordan and you know, Will Chamberlain, whoever else. Steph doesn't fit that normal mold.

Jimmy Johnson (45:43)

So I love that Shaq is bringing.

Colin Cowherd (45:45)

That up because from a skill standpoint.

C (45:47)

It'S not even close.

Colin Cowherd (45:48)

He's, he is the greatest ever from a skill standpoint. Yeah. And I, I just love that he's enduring and that he just, he was sort of on a treadmill to nowhere. They gave him Jimmy Butler and he has just said, I'm an average. I'm, I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take one more shot a game and average six and a half more points a game since Jimmy Butler arrived. That tells you he just needed, he needed a push, he needed a buddy to show off to. And he's back to being all time stuff. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Ryan Day, the Ohio State Buckeyes national champs favored next year as well as joining us live. You know, I was thinking about this this morning. I was thinking about this years ago, Mike Krzyzewski, when they did the one and done, he didn't like it. And then I asked him about it and he goes, I didn't like it. And then three years In I realized I was losing to all these one and done guys. So maybe it's time for me not to be stubborn. Your sport, Ryan, has become incredibly transient. I mean, just what it is. Was there a moment when it all came down the hill? Transfer portal, nil. Was there a moment where you said, this is a, I don't know if I like, this is it, we're gonna just do high school guys, or did you buy into it 10 minutes in?

C (47:15)

I mean, I, you know, there's still things going on that I throw my hands up right now. There's so many changes I think about, you know, the nil, the transfer portal, the conference realignment with 18 teams. So now, you know, in the Big Ten, we travel to the west coast and you have the, the playoff change. Like just, just those four things. Those are just four things that have all happened. Those are like major, major changes. So you just had to be comfortable being uncomfortable in, in solving it and getting it, because nobody cares. Like, there's all kinds of things that happened, you know, in the last month or so that, you know, after our game we can get into later, but nobody cares about. Like, what matters is putting your talent, you know, talent acquisition on the field and putting together and putting a team together. So as much though, as things have changed, to me, I felt with this team, it was about the kind of timeless principles of hard work and sacrifice and loyalty and resilience that separated us.

Colin Cowherd (48:10)

So I, I, I'm a friend of Chip Kelly, and he, you know, he's told me about your friendship for years and years. And I said, I said, I predicted before the season, I said, ohio State's going to lose at Austin. I've been to too many games there. You can't hear yourself think. I don't think anybody in the country is going to beat this Oregon team at Austin. You got close. I said, ohio State's going to beat them. They're going to meet. They're going to meet later. And Ohio State's got better personnel and Ohio State's going to beat him. But one of the things I theorized, I said, Chip Kelly is a real advantage that you're not going to notice until the playoff. He knows how to stagger these games because college football now feels like pro football. You can lose late in the season. It's not a death note. It's about staggering. It's about slowly unveiling. Take our audience into the value of Chip Kelly in that playoff that I can't see. You know, guys like me can't See, but inside your building, the additive value that Chip gave you, that had a little NFL feel to it.

C (49:07)

Well, yeah. Well, I think like you said, when you're talking about now 16. 16, 16 games in a long season with a playoff format at the end of the year, it starts off with, even this time of year, making decisions on how you want to proceed. Like, for instance, we decided to huddle on offense this year. We had never done that. Certainly Chip hadn't done that a lot, you know, with his background and tempo. But. But that decision was a huge decision and that, you know, we wanted to continue to evolve as the season went on. But. But then, you know, really have our best football for the end of the year. And I think having the NFL experience, I would think a lot of teams would tell you, you know, in the NFL, in, In September, there's, you know, sort of the preseason October, they're finding their identity. And then by the time they get to November and December, like now, now they're going to play for. For. For the championships, and everything's on the line. And I wouldn't say that that's the way it is in college right now, but it's trending towards that. And having somebody that's been in that position before, certainly with his experience in the NFL, it made a big difference.

Colin Cowherd (50:07)

So you have a player, you have two players. And I had said this, I had an NFL general manager tell me a month ago that if Jeremiah Smith and Caleb Downs were in this class, they'd probably be the second and third guys taken. They're unbelievable players. And you guys have done a really good job. And I think this is really hard, especially now you're paying players that you have these superstar players, and yet it felt like such a team. You felt like such a team. Your sideline, your body language. Is it harder when you have, you know, Ohio State's one of four programs, maybe three that gets those guys. When you have, literally NFL players, they're just not eligible yet you're paying them. You're not paying everybody big money in the NFL. Everybody's doing fine in college. There's a little gap. Is that hard for you to massage as a coach?

C (50:54)

Well, I think it starts with the identification. I mean, there's a lot of NFL players that, you know, aren't at Ohio State, you know, that. That maybe just aren't the right fit for.

Colin Cowherd (51:01)

For who we are.

C (51:03)

And so we try to do, you know, a great job of identifying, you know, the right people that fit us. You know, there's a Lot of great players out there. But what, you know, Ohio State's not for everybody. And you know, we try to make sure that we bring in the right folks that fit our culture because again, like you said, these guys are making money now, so it's now even more important to bring in the right fit. And then what you, what you say to them in the recruiting process, you, you better follow through with, because they can literally walk out the door tomorrow if they wanted to.

Colin Cowherd (51:30)

Yeah.

C (51:31)

So, you know, it's really forcing everybody to really, I think, follow through with what they talk about on the front end. But then these guys still want to be held accountable, you know, and coaching them hard and giving them life lessons and, and building trust within the building is, is very, very important. And I think, you know, our fan base and being in Columbus and what comes with that, you know, our guys understand that there's a big obligation when you come to Ohio State, what comes with it. So, so, you know, the fact that we were able to overcome some things this year and then prevail in the back end certainly is going to, you know, carry over into the season.

Colin Cowherd (52:02)

You've got a bunch of guys that are going to be very good. I mean, you're really a factory now. You've become the best. You know, you guys have done a little bit. Alabama did so. Saban was a defensive coach, and by the time he left, Alabama was known for wide receivers and quarterbacks. Ohio State in my lifetime was running backs. Oh, linemen, linebackers, and now it's, it's wide receiver. You and I, I've said this, I told Urban Meyer this once. I said, when you have receivers as good as Ohio State, you got to feed them. And I said, I think it can hurt your run game and physicality. How do you simultaneously build power football? It's easy for hardball with the Chargers now, by the way, because they don't have superstar receivers. Once you have four of them, is it hard for you as a coach? Okay, we want to be explosive, but we want a little 1985 Ohio State too. Is that hard for you?

C (52:51)

Oh, I think it's a great conversation, Colin. I think it's, it's a great point because when you're in the Big Ten, like, you've got to play smash mouth football, but then you also got to be able to go out to the Rose bowl or down to, you know, the Cotton bowl and play Texas and Oregon and attract me, you know, and so that's the combination of things that we're constantly trying to make sure we balance out. And the only way you can do that is if you have unselfish guys. So, like, you know, to have Trayvon Henderson and Quintean junkins together in the backfield together and let young players see that their unselfishness and willing to sacrifice being the guy or a number of carries so that they could play really, really fast and really physical down the stretch made a big difference, I think.

Colin Cowherd (53:29)

Yeah.

C (53:29)

And the only way that that happens is if guys are unselfish. And to your point, you know, if you have selfish guys who just want the ball and don't understand how important it is to establish the run, it's not going to work. And vice versa, you know, if you have, you know, running backs who want certain number of carries when the ball needs to get thrown out to some of our receivers, it isn't going to work. So buying into the team is critical.

Colin Cowherd (53:50)

You know, there's been a couple moments in my life when I had my first child that I literally was floating. Like, I didn't feel like. I'm like, what's happening to me? I got salty discharge. I'm crying, you know, and so we. You have had that, too. We've all had personal moments, but I want you to pivot now to a professional moment, because there is a difference between work and home, even though we love both. Take me back to the moment you knew you were going to be national champion. Who was the first person you thought of?

C (54:23)

Well, for me, it was my father. And I didn't really make this public before, but since you asked me, I'm going to answer the question. I lost my father on January 20th when I was 9 years old. And. And I saw when the schedule came out that the national championship game was on the same day that I lost my father. And so, you know, I just knew that he was with me that day, and that was the first guy that I thought of.

Colin Cowherd (54:47)

Oh, that's a great story. We've said this before. You know, you're at a good program when you get heat for losing occasionally to Jim Harbaugh, Georgia. Right now, it's the best program in my opinion. It's the best program in college football. Nil. Transfer portal coaching destination. It's Ohio State. Do you ever, ever just get to go for a walk in the park in Columbus, put a baseball cap on and not get noticed? Or do you sometimes feel like, man, this is a lot. It's a lot coaching the Buckeyes in Ohio State. How's that land for you?

C (55:23)

It is A lot. It is, but that's what you signed up for. And. And I remember when the first press conference, I was there with Urban, and a lot of people just kind of asked, how do you follow up Coach Meyer, a legend, and what if you don't do this and what if you don't do that? And I just kind of had the mindset of, what if we do? What an opportunity to be at a place where there's just such great tradition. And my wife, that night, we're on the bed together, I had three young kids. Knowing that we were probably the first, you know, family to go through this with young kids, you know, going through elementary school and now into junior high and high school. And she kind of cried, and she said, this is the last time our family will be normal. And I didn't even understand at the time, but she did and she was right. But. But, you know, it's.

Colin Cowherd (56:10)

It's.

C (56:11)

It's part of the job. It's part of the obligation. And I think after this game, so many people have come up to me across the country when I've traveled to different places, and the first thing they say is, thank you. Just thank you for what you did this year. And they tell the stories of where they've been across the country or who they were when they watched the run that we went on. And it just makes you realize that Ohio State football is bigger than any one of us and the obligation that we have. And it's just a, you know, it's an honor to be the head coach at Ohio State.

Colin Cowherd (56:36)

I love all. I appreciate you giving these stories to us because you don't have to, and you're opening up, and it means a lot. Finally, a big thank you from me for playing Texas. So Ohio State, a lot of programs won't do this, and it drives me nuts, you guys. I remember when Pete Carroll, you scheduled the Trojans in la. You know, Ohio State played them at home. And a lot of coaches won't do this. And, you know, you have just made a point. Let's, you know, I don't mind the Youngstown State. I don't mind that, you know, in state Ohio. But when you. When you. It's one thing to make a commitment. Three weeks before that game, are you going to be thinking, you know, we could have played Texas State at Arlington. It would have been. I mean, that's a hell of an opening game. You're going to lose some sleep when that thing's two weeks out?

C (57:33)

Well, I think it's 173 days from today. So. Yeah. To say I'm going to lose sleep. Yeah, you're darn right I'm going to lose some sleep. I. I think a couple things. I think one, it allows you, you know, an opportunity to figure out where you're at early in the season. And. But. But I think it's important moving forward with the playoff system that, like in the Big Ten and in the SEC and as we start to work through this, that we do get automatic qualifiers and a certain amount of automatic qualifiers. If we don't, then you're never going to see these games scheduled, to your point.

Colin Cowherd (58:04)

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

C (58:06)

So I think that's critical if we want these games, which I think we should have these games.

Colin Cowherd (58:09)

Yes.

C (58:10)

And we need to make sure that that happens because I think it's really, really good for college football.

Colin Cowherd (58:13)

Oh. I mean, I think the loss at Oregon, my takeaway is that was going to easily be the harshest environment you would play in. I didn't care what you did the rest of the year. I don't care if you're. That was good. No, I mean, I covered Oregon. That is as loud as any football stadium I've ever been in, NFL or college. So in a way, you look at it at the time and it stinks. Flying back to Columbus, but it paid dividends. Later, your guys saw what real duress is like in Ohio State. You don't face a lot of that. You don't. I mean, you know, it's just. It's just. I feel like the football gods. You should have won this year, and I love the way you won. And I want to thank you for coming on, giving us a little insight into your life and Impossible not to root for. Ryan, thank you so much.

C (58:57)

I appreciate it. Colin, much respect, man.

Colin Cowherd (58:58)

All right. Great football coach. And I really believe this is. I think if you count transfer portal nil. Coaching, home environment, budget focus. I. I think Ohio State, this moment is the best football program in America. Now there, it's always like, you know, Bama, Georgia, Ohio State, you know, it ebbs and flows. It never lasts forever. But that's. That is a tough job. That is a. You do not escape. I mean, you can. When you coach Ohio State, you can take your family on a trip to Florence, Italy, and there'll be Buckeyes over there, too. Appreciate that. So, J. Mac, got. You. Got your. Got a Jason Tatum. Tomorrow's headlines today. Yeah, it's. What's really unfair is I am just a journalist and when you're a journalist and you're just laying out data and people are attacking you, you know, that's not. I got into this business. Who.

C (60:00)

Who are these people?

Colin Cowherd (60:01)

I'm not attacking you. No. Do you feel attacked? People in Worcester are up in arms. How many people listening to the show can point out Worcester on a map? I used to live by it. So did you. Really? Of course I lived in Connecticut. I'm in Boston six times a year because of certain things. Worcester, like what? Like a cultural crossroads. Oh, it's a tough guy town. You people come up to you and they say you like, produce how you like these apples and they punch you right in the forehead. That's what Wooster's about. No messing around and woo. My kind of town, Colin. Trust me. Hell yeah. This is Nikki Glaser from the Nikki Glaser Podcast. On a more serious note, I'm still thinking about that commercial with Tom Brady and Snoop Dogg hating on each other. Because when you listen to the reasons for hating someone or something, you realize just how stupid they really are. There is too much hate in this country and it's gotta stop. So join us at iHeart in standing up to it. If you see hate, speak up, call it out, and you can learn more by following oupwithhate. Make some noise for the greatest shooter of all time, Steph Curry. We went live from All Star Weekend for a new podcast called Goat Greatest of Their Era. And we ranked our top five shooters from the 2000s page of 5 dirt. Ford Vasia is a. You won't believe who Steph left off his list.

Jimmy Johnson (61:19)

That's so tough. That's why we have these conversations.

Colin Cowherd (61:21)

Yes, absolutely.

Jimmy Johnson (61:22)

Love it.

Colin Cowherd (61:23)

Listen to Go G O T e Greatest of their era on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy Hobson on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.