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- [00:00]
Colin Cowherd
This is an iHeart podcast. Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable space. Love mine. The greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience seamlessly integrates powerful performance, its bold, daring design, a refined interior, details, cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric suv. Compromise. Not one of them if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you Today, American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright. Rocket Mortgage can help you turn your home equity into cash and that can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition or pay off consolidated high interest debt. To learn more, call 804-Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC. Licensed in 50 states. Nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030 Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan? Sorry, A box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. The NBA Finals are almost here and every play could be the one that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs. Legacies are built, heroes rise, and the action never lets up. With DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA, you don't just watch the madness, you live it. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app. The code is heard. Code Herd for new customers to get 300 bucks in bonus bets. If your five dollar bet wins only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources. See DKNG Co Audio. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Hour two on a memorial Day Monday, it's the Herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be watching or listening, thanks for making us part of your day. J. Mac Matt Hasselbeck is around the corner. You've got a story on Caitlin Clark at the bottom of the hour. Hope you had a great weekend. You ran into LeBron James, you said, in a volleyball tournament, you know, a huge volleyball tournament. He attracted a big crowd. Hey, quick question, let me ask you. And I know you're not a big social media guy on weekends. You got a bubbly life out there in the Midwest. When you put something out about Caitlin Clark during one of her games, do you see like a. Just a tsunami of a reaction? Everybody seems to have thoughts on Caitlin Clark. She is ex. She's probably more polarizing than any NBA player right now. Yeah, I don't get the polarizing. She's good. Yeah, let's enjoy her. I don't get like, I understand, I do understand a little bit of the animosity with players. They, you know, it's like when Bryce Harper came in baseball, nobody paid attention to us. Now you like the flashy new player and her game is flashy. So I get some animosity. I always felt this. I remember when Manny Ramirez left the Red Sox and he came back and people were like, yeah, I don't know if I like him. And my take is you're the Red Sox. You could never beat the Yankees. I don't care what you think of Kurt Schilling or Manny Ramirez. You beat the Yankees, you won rings with them. Like if somebody makes my life better, like I don't care if it's your ex wife. If you had 15 great years, appreciate it. Those, that's a big chapter in your life. That was good.
- [04:50]
Jason McIntyre
So.
- [04:50]
Colin Cowherd
So Caitlin Clark's making everybody's life better. You can fly Spirit Airlines or you can upgrade to private. That alone is a thank you card and gift. I mean, to me, I don't get the polarization. All right. We do it every Monday. Colin right, Colin wrong. And plenty of both where Colin was right. Well, I, my inclination was when the push push got pushed through. It was because of Jason Kelsey, the soon to be hall of Famer center for the Philadelphia Eagles who stood in front of the owners in a suit, got in a stance and made a declaration that it was safe. And the story's out today is Jason Kelce indeed was the reason he changed about three to four votes that it passed. Listen, the the health and safety committee of the NFL wants to get rid of it. So it had to be an influencer. It had to be somebody with great conviction to sell it, an owner or a player or a coach. And the reports are it was as we speculated Jason Kelce where Colin was right PFF came out last week ranked quarterbacks, all of them. Dak Prescott was 17th, one spot ahead of Tua and that's exactly right. I know y' all love him. He's a cowboy and he's rich and his intangibles from maturity to focus to leadership, I agree they're A plus but as a thrower, the football as an athlete it's C C B minus. He is especially after a second major surgery in the middle of the pack. And I appreciate PFF Nail where Colin was wrong the Lakers need to deal Austin Reaves I don't get the fascination but Dan Wojke reporting. The organization loves him and they only have to pay him next year 14 million and they see him as an absolute steal. I see him as a guy that got worked athletically against Minnesota's wing players. I see him as a guy that should be the fourth best player on a championship level team. I think he's a little less talented than Derrick White who I feel the same way about. If he's your fourth best player you should be vying for championships. But I'm wrong apparently. Where Colin was right Insiders now saying Jeremy Fowler reports that Aaron Rodgers many believe has his eye on Minnesota and that is why he hasn't signed with Pittsburgh. It's not just necessarily the personal reasons. I don't know it to be true but I have speculated he's too smart to think Pittsburgh's a good fit burrow twice a year with better offensive teammates and a better offensive coach. Lamar Jackson in a better organization twice a year Pittsburgh is a bunch of Ls even with Aaron Rodgers and I think he knows it. Where Colin was right Zach Edie made the all rookie team. The former Purdue star I didn't understand the pushback on him. Mark Few came on our show and said he never faced an offensive college player that unstoppable. Dan Hurley Came on the Herd and said the NBA doesn't know what they're talking about. He's going to work in this league and for Memphis, he made the all rookie team. He's a guy that just kept grinding. He got better sophomore to junior, junior senior year. And I think you're going to see continued improvement. He clearly has an excellent work ethic. Where Colin was wrong, the Eagles signed an extension to Nick Ceriani. You know, I don't quite get the vibe. I think there's a lot of circumstances like Howie Roseman and Jalen Hurts and Saquon Barkley in the O line that elevate him. But you know what? The players like him. I don't have to get everybody. I mean, Philadelphia is a loud, high volume, high intensity town and there's an argument he fits the Eagles more than any other team. So I can take it wrong on that. Where Colin was right? Oh, Jordan Hudson reportedly wearing a new ring and not wanted Belichick super bowl rings. It could be an engagement ring. Since I'm the only American media member that does appear to approve of this relationship, once again proving I am not only America's honesty broker, but I'm a hopeless romantic, I see it working. I think they like each other. Relationships can be complicated, but there is a report that they have a future, that these two are a real thing. Where Colin was right. NBA Western Finals between Minnesota and OKC as a ratings dud. I said I think the Knicks Pacers is going to get great numbers. And it has. This is not a needle mover. SGA is not a dynamic player. He's just a great scorer. It's a small market and Minnesota is not a huge basketball brand. So it doesn't surprise me that this is just not moving the needle. Like I think tonight could be the best game in the series. If Minnesota wins it, I think that helps. If OKC wins, I think the ratings are just going to be abysmal. We've had this before. Duncan and the spurs, when they were running the league, were not a captivating team. Duncan was great, but he was the big fundamental. He wasn't dynamic. He wasn't a big personality. It happens. Where Colin was wrong. Kenny Pickett, now viewed as the front runner for the Cleveland Browns quarterback gig. I don't get it. I just. I'm going to die on this hill. Shador Sanders is going to win this job. Pickett's on his third team in four years in his NFL career. Fifteen touchdowns, 14 picks. I don't get it. I. You know, nice kid. I think he's a backup. I think he loves football. But I, I said it when he came out. He's more of a second, mid third round pick. He doesn't pop on tv. He did have one great college play where he was going to slide. He faked it, stood, ran. We all ran that a thousand times. But I don't see it as a franchise quarterback. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Summer is here and you can now get almost any anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space, the IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified. If you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you Today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home and equity. That's the part of your home you own outright the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you work so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030 $178,000 average equity is based on internal Rocket Mortgage servicing data Everybody loves a good MVP story, and the story of Wasabi Technologies is one of the best. Wasabi is purpose built to free businesses from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys. Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company, becoming the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware, Wasabi has taken the lead in driving innovation in data storage, eliminating overhead where it matters to deliver you results you can count on and won't break the bank. In fact, Wasabi is up to 80% less than those other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi Another championship story. Check them out for free@wasabi.com Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage proud partner of the Volume Podcast Network so Matt Hasselbeck yesterday on our show assured us that Aaron Rodgers is going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler. May very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler. I don't know. He was. He was recently he was doing a Q and A in front of people. Aaron was. And again, when you're performative in front of people, you may say things that in the moment gets the crowd worked up or I'm not holding Aaron to every word of a public podcast or a public talk. People say things. But it does sound like there's a story out there. I think Aaron said he would play for $10 million. That tells me that money's not driving him. He also said recently, I'm not going to play for the Saints. I don't want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me where he play, plays matters. And this sounds like he's not that far from retirement. I've thought about that and I don't understand what the, what the reason for that is. You know, at the same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most of my, my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the, the cool thing about it. But if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm viewed in the packers eyes? There's a lot of love from me and how I feel about the team. If I do or if I don't, I don't think it should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they approached me about it, I probably would. Yeah, Aaron's saying, you know, if they approach me about playing, I probably would. Well, they have Jordan Love. So you're saying you'd be a backup and so you're saying you would close your career and you're still a starting quarterback in this league. You've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback. So you're basically saying is, I'd go be a backup for Green Bay. Wow, that's something. You'd play for 10 million. That's something. I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's something. These are your words. But I was saying when the show ended yesterday, I said, you know, there's two quarterbacks in the history of great quarterbacks. I've never quite known what to do with Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers, because whereas baseball is about stats, stats are really important for baseball people and basketball style and culture is really important. In football, it's about winning big games. That's why Elway, who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino, is here, and Marino's much lower. John got to the big game more, even if he lost it. And to me, there's always been four or five things. When you start counting everything for the great quarterbacks, I want to know your super bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win all of them. I'm not looking for six for six. I want division titles. So you at least dominate your division. You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record. Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them. But I want you to have some impressive playoff resume stuff. And I'll count MVPs, which are a personal award, but they mean something. It means a high level of play amongst your peers. I will not count passer rating. Tua and Jimmy Garoppolo, DeSean Watson and Russell Wilson have a significantly higher passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Josh Allen. I know Aaron has the best passer rating of all time. I do not care. Passer rating does not matter. It's like NBA Coach of the Year Phil Jackson has one. It's an irrelevant award. I think the people who win it put the plaque in their garage behind the rakes and the brooms. It just doesn't matter. And passer rating means Nothing to me. MVPs signify amongst your peers. You are the best that season, so that matters. But when you look at Marino and Aaron Rodgers, they're not close. Aaron's been to one Super bowl, had one great playoff run. 11 and 10 in the playoffs, division titles. Yes, MVPs. Impressive. But what do I do with that? Where do I put that? Because when you put him in that group of all time great quarterbacks, Brady, Montana, Elway, Mahomes, Peyton Bradshaw, Farve, Aikman, Young, not even Marino matches up. And I've said this before, well, Marino and Aaron are the same, really talented, may have the two best releases I've ever seen. Aesthetically pleasing. But relative to talent, they didn't win enough. I mean, Dan Marino had Don Shula, arguably the best coach of all time, still didn't dominate his division. One great playoff run and had good teammates. Aaron always had a good old line, always had an offensive coach. In much of Aaron's career, the Lions were awful. The Bears were egregiously bad, and Minnesota was never great. Although they had some great players, they were kind of good. And yet Kirk Cousins went.500 the minute he got into that division against Aaron. So I've never understood exactly if Aaron retired today. It's again, this is not basketball. It's not about style, it's not about culture. It's winning big games. If you think about Aaron Rodgers, all time greatest playoff moments, one jumps out. The Jared Cook throw against Dallas. It may be as good as anything I've ever seen. But Eli Manning, who I didn't put on that board, has two of those. David Tyree and Mario Manningham. And he's got two Super Bowls over Brady and Belichick. Manning's also a guy. What do I do? What do I do with Eli? He's like Philip Rivers, if Philip Rivers won Super Bowls. What do I do? So this, the thing. And I, and I, and I've said this with both Marino and Aaron Rodgers. It's hard to quantify Super Bowls division titles, productivity, winning big games, iconic moments, they're everything else. I'll give them the MVPs those matter. But I was looking at passer rating this morning. I just, it's nonsense. And this is, and I've always, my belief has always been Aaron at the end of his career played to protect his passer rating. If he threw an interception or two, he shut it down. He played to protect that all time number one passer rating. And it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and Lamar Jackson. The Peyton Mannings is 16th, Kurt Warner's is 19th, Josh Allen is 23rd. In fact, Derek Carr and Josh Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I can't count that. That can't be a thing. If you don't have, if you have one NBA Finals appearance as a coach, but you've won the coach of the year four times, I'm putting you below Phil Jackson. I, I'm sorry, I gotta put you below. Well, Phil had Michael Jordan, Doug Collins had him. Stan Ulbricht had him. Well, I mean, Phil had Kobe Bryant. So did Del Harris. I don't want to hear it. His, his New York Knicks day may have been a mess. I don't want to hear it. All right, J. Mack. Also I, Nick Wright is on at the top of the hour. I will hold. I cannot let some of that slide. You know, I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the jets, he was terrible, he got it, blah, blah. That's all right. But I do have to put in some context. Like Eli Manning was great in two super bowl games. Two games. Aaron Rodgers has been great for seasons. Yes. What matters more to you, a 16 game season sample size where he won four MVPs. Right. Or a game for Elon where he won one Super Bowl. Well, it's obvious Aaron is rated and I would rate him higher than Eli Manning as a quarterback. But. And that's where it gets difficult because it's like, are we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough Super Bowls, not winning enough and pumping up Eli because of, you know, playoff runs? I think Eli Manning is absolutely fairly categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a top 15 quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top 15 quarterback, but you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime, twice have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't know. He's Philip Rivers. No, he's not. So, so nobody is saying, I would never insinuate that Aaron's below Eli. So Obviously regular season MVPs and stats and productivity matter a lot. But again, we're talking all time top 1012 guys. Everything is something. Nothing's everything, but everything is something. So I mean, my take is with Aaron and Marino, if you're going to count them up against Brady and Montana and Elway and Mahomes and you're going to get dinged for getting to one Super Bowl. So do you have Elway above Aaron Rodgers? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. I think. Yeah, I don't even again, I grew up, you know, I'm watching John Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan, right. Like I saw him live. I saw John Elway leadership, fourth quarter comebacks. I think he's, he's one of a short group. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture.
- [24:43]
Jason McIntyre
Stories that, well, other shows don't seem.
- [24:45]
Colin Cowherd
To have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out.
- [24:52]
Jason McIntyre
We like to get you involved too.
- [24:55]
Colin Cowherd
Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake. That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak. That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry, a box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The Ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine Electrified if you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you. Today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright, the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you work so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030 $178,000 average equity is based on internal Rocket Mortgage servicing data. Everybody loves a good MVP story. And the story of Wasabi Technologies is one of the best Wasabi is purpose built to free businesses from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company, becoming the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage, Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware. Wasabi has taken the lead in driving innovation in data storage, eliminating overhead where it matters to deliver you results you can count on and won't break the bank. In fact, Wasabi is up to 80% less than those other guys and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi Another championship story. Check them out for free@wasabi.com Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage Proud partner of the Voluum Podcast Network Hour two Indiana Pacers have taken control of the series. Indiana has played 14 playoff games. They're 03 in game threes when they lead 2 0. When they've taken control of the series winning on the road at Milwaukee, at Cleveland, at New York, they go into the other team's place, steal both games. They come home foot on the gas, lets off a little and they've lost one game in each series. Game three, that's it. Otherwise they're 110 in the urgency games. Games one and two, four, five, six, they're 11 and oh, and Halliburton stat line last night, maybe the most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life. 32, 15, 10 and no turnovers. That is beyond hyper efficiency. That is insane. That'd be like an NFL. That's what Jaden Daniels did last year when he would go like 30 of 34 with no turnovers. What? It's just, it's incredible against the defensive coach and the defensive team. And the other thing is, and you saw this with Magic Johnson. You see this with a truly great point guard. You see this with Chris Paul. Remember when Chris Paul was in LA like Blake Griffin was like is he a top three or four player in the league? And DeAndre Jordan was nothing but buckets. And then Chris Paul leaves those two players and they're not the same players. You see all the holes in their game. I like Pascal Siakam. He looks all NBA first team playing with Halliburton. 32, 15, 10 and no turnovers. Here's Hallie after I feel like we making up stats at some point to.
- [30:56]
Jason McIntyre
Make me look better.
- [30:57]
Colin Cowherd
I was just trying to be aggressive.
- [30:58]
Jason McIntyre
Man, just trying to play my best.
- [31:01]
Colin Cowherd
I felt like I let the team.
- [31:02]
Jason McIntyre
Down in game three, felt like I could have been so much better.
- [31:06]
Colin Cowherd
So I felt like I responded the right way today. The only time I haven't liked Indiana in this series was when they had Halliburton off the floor end of the third quarter in game three and the start of the fourth, and they lost their rhythm. And this is a rhythm team, and it's a rhythm team because of Halliburton. And then he came back in, he got them back on track, but it just, it felt like they lost their mojo. So, like, every time he goes to the bench, if Brunson goes to the bench, Cat can score more. The Knicks don't necessarily go into a cave. Halliburton's off the floor. It's like, it's like white knuckle time. You're like, okay, all right, let's make sure this thing works. He is all time special. I love watching him play and I think he's a great personality. With that, Greg Olson joining us live. Fourteen years in the NFL. Fox Sports analysts, great, great broadcaster. By the way, tight end university is back its fifth year in Nashville in, in June 23rd through the 26th. I want to ask you about that because part of what you do, which I think is the most under discussed part of your sport, is film study. And Caleb Williams was recently quoted talking about the Bears, a team you played for and loved playing for. He's like, yeah, I'd watched film alone and I don't, you know, I'm not in those rooms. When you hear that he watched film alone, what was your interpretation of that? How's that land for you?
- [32:30]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, it lands as you would expect. It's just, it's hard for me to believe that that was the case. And I'm not saying he's not being genuine. I've been in three different organizations, multiple different head coaches, multiple different quarterbacks. I've never heard of a guy not having the opportunity to watch film with his position coach, let alone the quarterback. Not, you know, between the quarterback coach, the offensive coordinator, someone there. It's hard for me to believe that the organization would let their young rookie watch film by himself. But with that being said, yeah, it is though an element of the sport that there is a little bit of a learning curve. I don't think most young guys coming out of college, unless you just happen to be playing for you know, the right coach, the right position coach, coordinator, whoever at the college level to teach you the art of film study. I think we used to have a joke like we're not in here watching movies, right? There's a lot of guys that put the game on play one and they just go play one, play to play three and they just go through the sequence of a game, you know? Yes, you're watching film. Are you really getting the tendencies and really know what you're looking at to study? My experience is most guys have to learn that. Most guys have to learn that over the career. How I watched film in my 14th year was wildly different than how I watched it my first and second year. And I think it's up to the organization, it's up to the coach, especially at the quarterback position, where there is no greater responsibility than understanding not only everything of what your team's doing, but of course what the opposing team is doing defensively. So I can't imagine Ben Johnson's gonna let that go on at all. So I think for Caleb Williams and his development, the right guy now is in control in Chicago, both over the team and then obviously offensively with what Ben Johnson can do. But yeah, when I, when I read that report, I kind of did a, ooh, like true, not true, scales of truth, whatever. There's always probably two sides to every story. But just the fact that that was even suggested is not a great, is not a great reflection of the organization for sure.
- [34:38]
Colin Cowherd
By the way, did you and Cam, for instance, film study? Would you sit down with Cam and go, dude, this guy, this guy in the flats. Is that a real thing?
- [34:48]
Jason McIntyre
Oh, absolutely. So we had a great routine. So it was actually kind of fun. So most of the meetings from when we got there in the morning were all controlled by the coaches. It was small group meetings, offensive install. Then we'd have practice, then we'd have post practice review where we'd watch the practice film. So there was opportunities to, you know, hey, coach, take a second cam. Here's why I ran this flat. Here's why. And you're watching practice film or you're watching and the opportunity to go, but there's 35 guys in the room. It's not really the opportunity for the two of you to have your own conversation. But then at the end of the day when everything officially with the coaches ended, the tight end and the quarterback room in Carolina were right next to each other. We literally shared a wall. So he'd be in his room with some of the quarterbacks. And I'd be doing. Sometimes I liked being by myself at the end of the day just for my own prep and notes and whatnot. And I knew he was right next door. So I would pop over and be like, hey, I need you to come take a look at this and say, hey, look at the way the safety's hips. Are you okay? If I take this a couple yards deeper, am I going to throw off your timing? And most of the time, Cam was just like, get open, I'm good. But then sometimes he'd be like, I can't hold it that long. Or it messes up with my timing of my footwork, or I don't like the way your body language looks on there because you kind of fooled me. I wasn't sure when you were going to come out of your break. I need less at the top. So, like that dialogue in meetings on the field was non stop. And when you could play with one guy for as long as we did over time, I knew his answer before I even had to ask him. And vice versa because we had talked through so many scenarios over so many days, you know, for those nine years together.
- [36:25]
Colin Cowherd
So Cam was a mover, Caleb's a mover. Cam Ward is a mover. Like, I like Cam a lot and I think Tennessee could be a playoff team. Tell the audience. When you do have Caleb Williams and he can ad lib now, I think the Bears online is better. He won't have to do it as much. But some of these guys like Cam, Cam Warden, Caleb, they're just naturally gifted. It's like if you have a great voice, you sing in the shower. Like that's just the reality of their game. When you have a mobile quarterback, does it make it harder for tight ends and does it make it harder in film studies so much as ad libbed?
- [36:57]
Jason McIntyre
That's a great question. So I think what we're seeing right now in the NFL is you can't play, I should say within certainty, the vast majority of guys cannot play NFL quarterback if you don't have some level of improv, right? Some level of playing off script, off platform, all the words, the buzzwords that get thrown around. But the ability to buy time, escape pocket pressure, and still stay active as a quarterback and not always just rely on being a runner, stay active as a passer. I mean, now you also can't only play off script. You can't only play improv quarterback at the NFL. There's no timing, there's no rhythm. You, the tackles don't know your depth. Of your drop. The guards don't know the depth of the pocket. Am I blocking for you to be at five and a half yards or are you going to be outside the hash marks running with your life? If I'm a quarterback, if I'm a wide receiver or a tight end, I need to know at the top of my break, when I get my head around, am I looking to find you behind the center at 7 yards or is there a chance that you've already broken, contain and you're outside the pocket and now I need to get into scramble drill. So there is a balance to it all. You can't just stand in one spot and be a statue in today's NFL. And you also can't just play recess football running around. It's not sustainable. So I think that blend of don't take what's special out of these guys, don't take it out of their game. If you have the ability to move and improvise, encourage them to do it, but just give them boundaries, give them parameters of saying, okay, I need you to hit your fifth step of your drop and it's a progression pass or it's a half field read or whatever the play calls for. After you've exhausted all of that, if the opportunity there is to extend and create plays outside the rhythm of the game, we're never going to take you away. But it can't be hit your back foot and run around because we can't support you doing that every single play from a protection and a route concept. So there is a little give and take and I think that's something that Ben Johnson has proven. He's coached multiple different types of quarterbacks. He had a guy in golf who really was stationary in rhythm, in timing. Get the ball out of his hand, he will have a little bit of a different flavor for a guy like Caleb where he does get that rhythm progression passer in the offense because you need it. But then also encourage him to use his athleticism because it is very challenging for defenses to play off script and.
- [39:21]
Colin Cowherd
Defend that long before I get to the tight end. You the tush push. You know, as a guy that was a willing blocker, my guess was you like it. Do you like the Tush push?
- [39:34]
Jason McIntyre
I do. I think it would be extremely unfair and wrong to Philadelphia who has really. Some teams have done it here and there. No one has even come remotely close to doing it as efficiently as often and use it as such a fabric of their offensive philosophy from how they manage third downs, knowing they got a Yard and a half in their back pocket, how they call first and second down plays knowing they have a fourth down in their back pocket. Goal to go situations like, it is a. Not just a play. It is really a centerpiece of the entire fabric philosophy that Sirianni has built with that offense and Jalen hurts. So I think to remove that from a team who has found a play that they're uniquely good at just because the rest of the league is tired of trying to find ways to defend it, I don't agree with. My gut tells me they are going to eventually ban it. I think it came so close this year at the owner's meeting. My. Typically, those things don't come back. They typically continue to move forward in getting the other side to flip. I don't. I hope I'm wrong because I think Philly has earned the right to use that in their offense. I don't think the linemen love doing it. I don't think they love being at the bottom of the pile on, you know, seven times a game, five times a game. But when you're winning Super Bowls and you tell me I gotta mush a guy out of there and get my back right, I'll do that. I'll do that to win the Super Bowl. So I, I'll be curious to see how it plays out.
- [41:00]
Colin Cowherd
Finally. I think, you know, people were complaining a couple years ago about, you know, running backs don't make any money. It's unfair. And my take has been, well, tight ends have been underpaid my entire life. They have to block the best athlete on defense and they have to catch. They have to do most of the dirty work and then they're one of the last positions. I guess this has changed that you can really take a shot at as a defensive player. So when you have your Nashville tight end university and you have all these young guys in. What is something you preach to young tight ends? A high school tight end, it's not all catching. Like, is there something that. Do you deliver a message, a harsh message to all these young tight ends that I wouldn't think about?
- [41:46]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah. And it's actually a very simple message. And, you know, we get into route running and we got Kelsey given, you know, really high level coverage, recognition and how to use leverage and breaking and finding space and a lot of this stuff, I kind of look and I laugh and I'm like, Kelsey, like, not everyone can do what you're talking about right now because it's, it's super advanced. And him and Mahomes and then you got kittle talking run game and, and footwork and hand placement and fight and you know, these guys are just so unique, but obviously they have a lot of experience and a lot of understanding of the position. But the message that we try to deliver, at least the one I try to deliver to all of our guys, to your point, is the, the best opportunity to have success at tight end, especially at a higher level, is to be able to be trusted to be on the field on every snap. And that's going to be your best case for production catches, yards, opportunities, how much you get paid, the impact on the offense, all of it. If you, you could be the best pass catching tight end in football or the best run blocking tight end in football. But if I can only use that, I can only use you in package of the offense at times where those skill sets are warranted. You still are going to play in the NFL. You are still going to be able to find a roster spot because those skills have value. But if you want to be a legit guy, you want to catch 80 balls, you want to have a thousand yards. The only reason I ever caught a thousand yards, Colin was because I knew I went into every game and there was like four to six real routes downfield, 20 plus yards that were designed for me. But of that four to six, I needed the right protection, the right play call. Did the play ever get called in the first place against the right coverage and then did I catch? It was the throat. There's so many factors of those four to six, if I got two or three of those, that was a great day. But now you got three catches for 55 yards. But now I caught a flat route, I caught a first and second down check down because I'm on the field. I caught a short yardage goal, a short yardage pass, a goal line pass, and next thing you know I'd finish with 7 for 90. And it wasn't the flashy play. So if I'm only on the field for the flashy plays, I never catch the easy ones. And if I'm only good enough to be on the field and goal line and short yardage, because I'm a blocker, I don't catch a third and eight dig across the middle for 25. So being on the field and providing value to your team, no matter the down and distance, you're not looking to the sideline. What personnel package are they calling? If I'm on the huddle every single play, even if I'm not the best at anything. My ability to raise my value and raise my earnings, my production, all of it go up. So that's our message to them. Be good enough at everything. And it's a much easier road.
- [44:36]
Colin Cowherd
Great stuff. Great broadcaster. Fox Sports, it's Tight End U. It's In Nashville, the 23rd through the 26th. A great American city in Tennessee. Good seeing you, my man.
- [44:45]
Jason McIntyre
Good seeing you, man. Have a great summer.
- [44:46]
Colin Cowherd
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app last night in a laugher, not, not much of a game. And I understand this. I have said during the Pacers Knicks series, stop beating up on the Knicks. It's about the Pacers. They have the best point guard and the best offense and the best pace in the league. And I feel like this with Minnesota, like they're not as good as okc. They don't have, they don't have the depth, they don't have the youth. They don't have, have multiple guys who can score like that. And so it's just, I, I feel like we should kind of honor OKC and SGA more than Hammer Minnesota. Wow. A reasonable take to start the show. Colin. I like it. I like it. So let's start with that. Obviously, okc, that game was over in about seven minutes. The great thing about sga, of the many great things, what I really like is he is delivering and fulfilling everything I've been told Jayson Tatum does but doesn't. Really. Last year, the Celtics go on their championship run. Jalen Brown's the MVP of the Eastern Conference finals. Jaylen Brown's the finals MVP and Jaylen Brown's the aggressor and often the initiator. SGA wants the ball, is always the aggressor, and he plays Williams homegrid. He's got multiple great players around him, but he is clearly the alpha. And that's all I ever asked with Tatum and got pushed back. You know, I, I, that's, I'm holding Jason Tatum to the standard you guys all lectured me on for years on LeBron when LeBron didn't take the shot. He's the alpha. He's the one. If he wants to be mj, he's got to always take the shot. Okay, well, that's the standard of SGA and Jokic right now. Like, like I think both Jokic and SGA can elevate teammates and clearly do elevate teammates. But there is no question in this Oklahoma City room or that Denver locker room or in the huddle or any time there's a late possession, who's the man? And I mean, we could crush the T Wolves, right? They were awful. Their effort was weak. But this series is not about the T Wolves and the Knicks Pacers, which I think will end soon. It's not really about the Knicks failures. Indiana is the best offense in the league with the best pace. OKC is easily the best defense and the greatest score. I mean, SGA is only the fourth player in 20 years to win the MVP and reach the finals. The other three, Steph, Kobe and LeBron. I don't know, that feels historic to me. So I just, I look at them and between SGA and OKC's defense, this is going to be a great final. I get the best offense, I get the best defense, I get the best point guard and I get the best score. And I know it's not catchy and I know it doesn't sound, you know, dynamic, But I think SGA's nickname should be the standard. This is the standard for a true number one. In the locker room, in the huddle, every big possession, he is a number one. Has to be dominating offensively, understood by all, even his talented teammates. Debilitating to your defense. An adult, consistent number one. On the bus, on the plane, in the room. SG Alpha, the Western Conference finals undisputed mvp. This is not about Minnesota's failures. It's about a historic player. He's one of three guys in league history to have 30 points, five plus assists at least 10 times in the playoffs. MJ and LeBron are the other two. This kid is special. Every time he talks, every time he leads, you just see what a one should be. And here he is after winning the conference finals mvp.
- [48:54]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah, it's a really good feeling. Stuff you dream about as a kid. And then of course, I want to thank my teammates. Without them, I'm nothing.
- [49:03]
Colin Cowherd
Claire's day.
- [49:05]
Jason McIntyre
I don't have 124 points by myself. I love these guys to death.
- [49:09]
Colin Cowherd
Now, with all that being said, this.
- [49:11]
Jason McIntyre
Is a step in the right direction, but we have a lot more work to do. We know that and that's what we're focused on. So let's buckle up and get ready.
- [49:18]
Colin Cowherd
Listen, they won by an average margin of 12.9 points per game. And I understand, like veteran teams in the regular season don't give it. You know, LeBron's going to take some night offs and the older players, you know, they're dinged up A little bit. I understand their youth is a big component to it. But here's what else is. This is as good a defensive team as I remember now. Detroit Pistons were great, but you could tackle back then. That was a little different. But given what you can do now, you can't really. You can't hand check, you can't use that forearm on your back given what you're allowed to do by NBA protocol and rules. This is the best defense I've ever seen. They hound, they confound their aggressive to rim protectors on the back end. Even SGA plays defense and is long like this is as good as defense gets. So we can bang on Minnesota, but they're not. They're not built to beat this team. Julius Randall's probably a three, not a two. Go Bears. Got no offense. Conley, great veteran presence, not an offensive threat. And Ant just isn't there yet to single handedly beat this offense. Way to go, okc. All right, listen, I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but some pretty interesting information trickled over my phone from the Cleveland Browns OTA yesterday. I'm not great at math, but let's put the numbers up. For the television audience, it appears in the 4 quarterback derby. Again, not a mathematician, but one of them has more TDs than completions. That feels important to me. Despite the fact that Shador Sanders had the fewest attempts, he was the most efficient and most productive with the fewest reps. So the quarterback tracker for those radio audience members. Flacco was nine for 14 and a touchdown. Pickett nine for 16, no touchdown. Dylan Gabriel 11 of 16, two touchdowns on a pick. And Sanders seven of nine, three touchdowns, no picks. This Justin, I've seen enough. I'm calling in a wrap. The Herd newsroom is calling it in Ohio by a landslide. Shador Sanders should be starting. We are calling Ohio as the projected winner in a race that is not as close as the fake news projected. You can keep selling me on Pickett, you can keep selling me on Dylan Gabriel. Now Flacco, I buy. Flacco I like. He's one of my, one of my favorite guys that's ever played in the league. He's like, everybody likes Flacco and I think he's going to win the starting job. Initially I really like Flacco, but I'm calling it, I'm calling it for Shador. And here's Flacco on Shador. Shedeur has been great. I mean, he's a lot of fun to be around in those meeting rooms. And I think once, I think so far there's been, you know, at least once in the meeting room that he's, he's made me crack a smile. And that's what it's all about. You know, he's a young guy trying to learn some football and come out here and practice well and do those things. And like I said, he's been a lot of fun. Okay, you, you know people, you're. Everybody's trying to sell you. I mean, TikTok selling you. IG selling you using filters. Everybody is selling you stuff. Now people are talking about the election that wasn't for Biden and was for Trump. Everybody's selling me their takes. Y' all keep selling me. I got scouts telling me he's a fifth or a sixth round talent. All I know, with very average personnel outside of Travis Hunter against the very best teams he played, they didn't win games. But he was highly productive. And a lot of college quarterbacks against the best teams with better teammates weren't as productive. Size, movement, accuracy. I like him. I know I didn't love, I didn't love the legendary draft room stuff. I thought it was a. Lacked a little self awareness. But again, you're 21, you're 22. You know, we were all running around pulling fire hydrants in college. So I mean, you know, we, you know, you know, the pull the lever in college dorm rooms. I mean we were all idiots at some point. We all had, you know, lack of judgment or self awareness. I'm not going to crush anybody for that. But I think he's really, I think he's really talented and I think you're seeing it. J Mac, we're calling it for Ohio. Oh, boy.
- [54:11]
Jason McIntyre
Yeah.
- [54:12]
Colin Cowherd
You know what else? You know what else? Train has left the station and it's May for Shador Sanders. Okay, got it. Okay. OTA stats. That's a new one. Let me, let me just throw this at you. Back to Oklahoma City, please. So like when you lose a playoff series or are losing a playoff series, we've talked about this with the Knicks is like you kind of see what doesn't work against an elite team. Brunson and Cat on the floor. Indiana kind of abuses them. So you probably want to move off Cat. You could keep him if you added another catch and shoot guy. But you can see your problems when you face an elite team. Like you watch the T Wolves and you're like, oh, you know, Julius Randall is. It was fun but boy, when you play OKC's defense, he is really limited and Ant isn't there yet. So you great teams are clarity. Like when Andrew Luck came into the NFL was 11 and 5 with a bad roster. You're like, oh yeah, that's what great is. You can be 11 and 5 without a pro Bowler anywhere near the offense. And. But, but here's another takeaway and I'll get into it later. The T Wolves ran the Lakers out of the building and can't compete against okc. So for all those thinking we're inches away, the T Wolves bodied. The Lakers physically pushed them around. Dude, they could not compete in this series. They had one really good game, one of five. So I'm just saying greatness creates clarity. If you think you're close or you think you're flawless, but you don't think you have vulnerabilities. Oklahoma City, Indiana Pacers show you the truth and you have to grasp the truth. You have to embrace the truth. You can't push back and be defensive. But Laker fans, Minnesota bodied you. They got blown out of the building in this series. Colin, I love it. You know, I can't help my son with 8th grade math. He's doing like the advanced math. It's hard. I don't. I have to ask Chad. GPT. Okay. But I do remember in elementary school there were all these math properties. If A plus B equals C. Just because Minnesota smashed the Lakers, it does not mean that the Lakers can't beat okc. They match up great with okc. That essentially the Thunder had two rounds to watch Anthony Edwards and they were like, oh, here's how we stop him. Let's put up a picket wall at the free throw line and say, you're not getting in the lane. We'll go. Go ahead and have Jaden McDaniels shoot the lights out. Or Julius Randle and Minnesota didn't. Nobody else showed up for them in the series and it was. It was a wrap. I still, I think your worst take in the NBA playoffs has been the Lakers are far off. I think you're way, way wrong there. But again, maybe I'm being a LeBron homer. Yeah, maybe summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now, what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. A day of sunshine. No. A box of fine wines. Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber eats order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Just like how true champs master both offense and defense, the BMW IX masters both ultimate performance and unbeatable love Mine the greatest legends in sports never compromise in any aspect of their game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? What I love about my BMW IX is that it redefines the electric vehicle experience seamlessly integrates powerful performance. It's bold, daring design, a refined interior, details cutting edge technology. Basically pushes the boundaries of innovation. Thousands of details went into creating the ultimate electric suv. Compromise not one of them. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset. Your people. Are you ready to become a better leader? Visit paycor.comleaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders hi, it's Colin. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it. Or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's Handmade Vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmick. Smooth, clean tasting. Made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's Soda, one lime, lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly. This is an I Heart podcast.