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We get the best start to the day because we started together. Watch the Today show weekdays at 7am on NBC. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports radio at noon to 3 Eastern, 9am to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd@foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to the Herd podcast. Ah, here we go. Hour two. It is a Monday live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. So interesting. I had I was in Chicago over the weekend. You know they're all fired up about the Bears. Jordan Schultz Joining us. And a lot of people are asking about Aaron Rodgers, who will be in our right and wrong. And I think Aaron is being very smart and calculated. He's going to wait for the draft and figure out where the dominoes fall. He's not going to do a Kirk Cousins sign with a team and then the team drafts a quarterback. It's like, what's the point? So I think. I actually think Aaron Rodger. And I told everybody, I said my take is the Steelers is fool's gold. He knows it. Defensive culture. And so I. It's, it's. And here we are waiting for Aaron Rodgers, which again, it's his last team. So I don't blame him. If it's your last job, your last contract, take your time. Say no to a bunch of people. All right. We do it every Monday. Colin right. Colin wrong. And here we go, where Colin was right. The Joker. Nikola Jokic after Kareem. Second best center I've ever seen. His numbers this year. Third player ever to average a triple double. Totally authentic. He didn't work the stats. He just had his best season ever. 30, 12 and 10. He kept the franchise afloat. I don't know if they have another title, but the truth is, because optics and artistic impression matters in the NBA, that he's not wildly popular because his game sometimes is a little clunky and awkward. But take out Kareem, that's the best center in league history. Where Colin was wrong. I thought the warriors would find themselves with a number two or number three seed, but Jimmy Butler just didn't provide enough offense. And Kaminga doesn't work. They lost three of their last five. They got eaten alive yesterday in overtime by James Harden and the Clippers. And I gotta. I gotta say, I was wrong on this. I thought they'd end up because of their experience, Butler, the team to the free throw line and their added toughness. But in the end, they've got limitations and they don't know what the hell to do with Kaminga because he doesn't play well with Draymond or Butler, where they're on the floor. So I was wrong on the warriors, where Collin was right. The Suns missed the playoffs. KD makes another poor decision and Mike Budenholzer gets fired. I appreciated the swing, but let's be completely frank about this. Kevin Durant's won two playoff series in five years since he left the warriors, and he is just two roles. Remarkable an NBA player for that to be true. I hated the move away from Golden State. Everybody said he just wants to ball, but he's now just become a really talented bounce around the league guy, which is beneath him. Where Colin was wrong, the Clippers are in the playoffs. I didn't love the Kawhi extension. He's been on fire. I didn't like letting Paul George go. His season was a mess. James Harden I was done with. Boy, was he good yesterday. He played great down the stretch and this team suddenly on fire. Kawhi Leonard is playing. He's great. He's a get a bucket guy and yesterday warriors couldn't stop him. Clippers are now in the playoffs, so I didn't like all their moves. They've got a lot of older guys and sometimes older guys just don't treat the regular season in the NBA with a great deal of urgency. But they got a great coach and played with some of it down the stretch and here we are where Colin was right. I always said John Morant's going to be Derrick Rose, a small guy that can't sh that will force him to score at the rim and he's going to get banged up and have injuries add in immaturity. He's in trouble with the league again for some hand grenade, you know, move which didn't bother me much. But it is what it is and Ja Morant has sort of become what we predicted. Fun to watch, but I'm not going to build my franchise around him as a number one and injury. If you're under six three A John Wall, a Russell Westbr, a John Moran, a Derrick Rose and you're not a great perimeter shooter, well, you've got to score at the rim. What does that mean? Collisions. What does that mean? Injuries. It's the way it always works. Where Colin was wrong, I think Shador Sanders in a bad quarterback draft is good enough to go two or three. But the odds out of Vegas say the Saints with a number nine pick and the Steelers with a number 21 pick, that's where he's going. So now I would agree that he doesn't have a lot of special, he doesn't have a big arm, he's not super mobile. But I do think there's value in the fact that he's accurate, composed. His dad was a pro athlete and he did not have a good O line or a run game at Colorado. So he has had to initiate offense. And let's be honest, when you look at how bad the O line was, the fact that he completed 74% of his throws and he actually played really well in games against really good teams with much better players. So I think he's a little bit better than the NFL people think, but he's moving down according to the odds makers. Where Colin was right. I told you, Aaron Rodgers doesn't buy Pittsburgh. It's fool's gold. Defensive coach, two needy receivers, battle line lost Najee Harris and here we are. Aaron Rodgers is just waiting it out. I think it's the right move. I believe he wants to go to San Francisco if the Purdy contract doesn't work or Minnesota. I think he's right to want that. I think Aaron's too smart to make an impulsive, dumb decision. And I don't buy Pittsburgh for Aaron Rodgers. Rogers I think at his core he's a NFC north or a West coast guy. He's got a beautiful place in Malibu, trains in Thousand Oaks. I don't think he should sign with Pittsburgh. I never thought he would sign with Pittsburgh or at least, at least didn't feel that way. With great conviction and I think he's making the right move. Where Colin was raw I thought the Dodgers roster, especially the batting order, maybe the greatest since the 75 Cincinnati Reds. They're hitting.225. They're third in their division. They lost 16 nothing to the Cubs Saturday. They lost their third straight series. They're not hitting at all now. This is a little bit on brand for the Dodgers, who tend to pick up steam mid season and beyond. And they did just win the World Series and there is no real urgency in 162 game schedule. But they're struggling in the bullpen and they are struggling at the plate, hitting only.225 which which 18th. Maybe they need more Torpedo bats. Whatever it is, the Dodgers aren't playing or hitting particularly well. Colin Wright Colin Wrong on a Monday. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet PayCor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results. From recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. 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Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.

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We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.

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And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.

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So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down. Once all 257 picks have been made.

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I am a lifelong Republican with all.

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Kinds of different people.

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You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

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That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

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Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

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Each week we bring together an all Star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle. Thanks for having me. Jeremy Neil DeGrasse Tyson, welcome to the Middle.

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Thanks for having me.

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And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

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We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these.

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It is great to have you in. So at the end of yesterday's show, Jordan Schultz, filling in for JMac this week in one of the Herdline stories, had that Time magazine's list of the 100 most influential people in America. They did not have Caitlin Clark on the list, but they had two other WNBA players and they had a bunch of other athletes. I love Jalen hurts. I don't think he's one of the 100 most influential people. I love him. And it just, it struck me, I, I, I had so many people reach out to me on this yesterday. So I just want you to think of words matter. Influential. Influential is the word Time magazine used. Influential. She played one year of pro basketball in a small market for the worst team in the league. And she literally changed the entire financial makeup of the league that defines influential. The WNBA had its most watched season in 24 years, its highest attendance in 22 years, and set records for digital consumption and merchandise sales last year. That is all Caitlin Clark. Six WNBA teams have already preemptively for their games. With Caitlin Clark moved to bigger venues, Time magazine used the word influential. I didn't they use that word. Well, Colin, I heard this. Colin. They gave her athlete of the year in America in December, and so there was no reason to put her on the April list. All right, so Time magazine is telling me she went from the athlete of the Year in America in December and by April, she's less influential than Brianna Stewart. Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to buy that argument. You think Hollywood in the 90s said, Listen, Tom Hanks, everything he's in is great. He's won back to back Oscars. But you know, let's, let's share the spotlight. Nope. Movie studios were fighting over Tom Hanks. Everybody wanted Tom Hanks because Hollywood, Hollywood's gotten into trouble in the last 10 years when they've tried to make independent movies where women fall in love with fish. And now nobody goes to a theater except for Tom Cruise and Christopher Nolan. Big avenger movies, right? Like the big directors, the big stars play the hits. I've been doing this for 33 years. I've had a pretty good career. TV and radio, podcasting, play the hits. You think Fox upstairs in baseball coverage goes? You know, we've done a lot of Aaron, Judge, Ohtani, Juan Soto. Anybody checked out the Mariners schedule lately? Can we squeeze them in? That's never been a discussion ever Here. The NFL this year literally has a new rule. You no longer have to put every team on television at least once because they realized Carolina is not well run. That's a Carolina problem. Why should I force network, cbs, Fox, ABC to put on bad products? So this idea, and I'll say this, there have been a lot of great individual female athletes globally, but in terms of North America and team sports, men have dominated. And because men have dominated this for so long, they get it. UFC just put Jon Jones and Conor McGregor on every big card. It's not about sharing. We'll pay them a fortune. The rest of the guys, Eh, we'll pay what we want to Major League Baseball, Fox coverage, Moro Tani and Aaron Judge. The NFL. It's funny. Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, the Philadelphia Eagles. You ever notice who they put on television? Big brands all the time. The minute the Pittsburgh Steelers are uninteresting, boom, gone off. Let's put on the Detroit Lions, play the hits. But the wnba, last year, bless their hearts, finally got a star. And they didn't know that. They couldn't figure it out. Well, we don't. We don't want to put too much. Too much Caitlin Clark on. Nope. Every game, every list, every game, every moment, every contest, every All Star game, every single day. All Caitlin Clark. Well, it will offend. Who cares? You didn't make any money in 24 years. You're subsidized by the NBA. Who gives a rep? Who are you offending? Players that don't make revenue. You're subsidized by the NBA. More Caitlin Clark all the time. Always. Hurting feelings is the reality. ESPN and baseball right now, they've hurt each other's feelings. They'll get over it. If you don't make money, you're not a league. You can't subsidize people forever in sports. So Caitlin Clark changed the financial structure of the league.

Colin Cowherd (16:59)

She's not.

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Wasn't my word. It was Time magazine's word. They used influential. And now she's not influential. So here's a rule for anybody considering starting a league. And I do think the WNBA got so mocked and criticized, they finally figured it out in sports. Don't get caught up in sharing the spotlight because occasionally an athlete will be the spotlight. Don't play nice. Play the hits. Caitlin Clark is easily the most influential athlete in a team sport since Michael Jordan. Patrick Mahomes is great. The league was doing fine. Tom Brady retired. The league's doing fine. Favre, Peyton Manning left. Fine. They're great. I mean, you could argue Steph Curry is influential because of the way he changed the way basketball is played. Maybe that's the second most influential person, but I mean, the only athlete in my lifetime I can think of that compares to Caitlin Clark. And it's not a team sport. It's golf is Tiger Woods. I mean, Tiger woods literally got people to a television on Sunday for a decade. It was Sopranos after Tiger woods round. I mean, he changed American viewing habits. So just think about this. Six WNBA teams have already preemptively moved the Caitlin Clark games to bigger venues. Time magazine. You use the word. I didn't. You invalidated your list. You made it inauthentic because you were trying to play nice. Don't play nice. Play the hits. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis, and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Ko Vinoenrich wherever you get Podcast and of course, on social media. That's Covino and Rich. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results from recruiting and development to payroll and analytics, paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders T Mobile's stats are.

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The 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for the 2025 NFL Draft.

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We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.

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And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.

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So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock. We'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.

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Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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We live in a divided country.

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I am a lifelong Republican with all.

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Kinds of different people.

Colin Cowherd (21:31)

You know, I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother.

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That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation.

Colin Cowherd (21:42)

Anna, I'm calling from Las Vegas.

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Each week we bring together an all Star panel. Mark Cuban, so great to have you on the Middle. Thanks for having me.

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Jeremy.

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Thanks for having me.

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And hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country on the most important issues.

Colin Cowherd (21:57)

Hi, my name is Venkat.

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I'm calling you from Atlanta, Georgia.

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And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news.

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We should be examining what our government spends its money on and are these.

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Jobs necessary and what are we doing here? But that doesn't seem to be what we're doing in this situation.

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So here we go. Let's do our top 15 mock draft. This is who I would draft if I was the gm. Number one is Tennessee. You got to get Cam Warden. It's an easy one. Last year, the Titans quarterbacks combined for 22 touchdowns and 21 picks. It's a winnable division. He fits Brian Callahan's offense. They've got one go to receiver. I think he'll win games. I think he'll make him a playoff team. Easiest pick on the board, Cam Ward. Number two, Cleveland. I think they go and get Travis Hunter, the best overall athlete in the draft and he'll play both sides. Their receiving core is Jerry Judy and a whole lot of meh. They also have quarterbacks all filled out. They Got Flacco. They're paying to Sean Watson. They got Kenny Pickett. They've sent the signal they're not getting a quarterback. So I think this is the only player in the draft that can affect both sides of the ball and in a division with the Ravens, you need to catch up. I think it's the pick number three may surprise you. I do now think the Giants are going to take Shador Sanders. Here's why. I think Jameis Winston and Tommy DeVito, they'll cut him in camp. I think they're going to go Russell for a year. Even Russell's contract's not that punitive. It's all based on how many games he plays and how well he plays. I've changed my mind. I think they're gonna go get him. I think he's a star. It's a star town. I think it's a big market. I Brian Dabel has proven a history of you can give him kind of average stuff and he'll correct it. I don't think there's a lot to correct. They've seen him personal workout recently. I think they're gonna go get Shadour. I think the Patriots are gonna get Abdul Carter the edge. Last year the Patriots had the fewest sacks in the league. There'll be plenty of running backs, tight ends and wide receivers later in the draft. They it's Mike Vrabel. They're gonna. I mean, go look at what they did in free agency. A lot of big uglies, a lot of size and movement. Carter's a great athlete. They don't need to rush Drake Mays development. They can get him help later in the draft. It's a good tight end and running back draft. You can get that second, third, fourth, fifth round. They get Abdul Carter. Jaguars get Mason Graham. Jags defensive line's already talented. I think Graham's really underrated. People say his ceiling is low. All I know is when I watched him, he pushed everybody around the field. They had the second worst total defense in the league last year. They've already got Trayvon Walker and Josh Hines Allen. Add Mason Graham and don't worry about the D line for the next five years. The Wolverine big kid from Anaheim area in California. I think he goes number five. I think the Raiders go get Ashton Genty, the running back from Ohio State. Is he worthy of this pick? He's the best running back in this class. Geno Smith is very good on play action. Pete Carroll's career, he was great when he had Reggie Bush and Lindale White in college and Marshawn lynch in Seattle. They had the worst rushing attack in the league last year. Their offensive line is set. They've got an elite weapon in Brock Bowers. I think you give Geno help.

Colin Cowherd (25:33)

Ashton.

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Jenny Playmaker at six. The jets get Tyler Warren at number seven, the tight end. This kid can do everything you can Split him out wide. He's a playmaker again. Takes the pressure off Garrett Wilson who gets double teamed Now Devontae Adams has gone super versatile player and they just haven't had any tight end production over the last couple years. They have six tight end, six touchdowns at the tight end position. I watched the USC game. This kid had 17 catches. He is about as viable and has the kind of dexterity. He's a little bit running back, a little tight end. He could throw the football if you wanted. I think the jets finally go get a big time tight end. Panthers get T. Mac wide receiver, Arizona. I like him. He's a little bit of a glider. But they got to get Bryce Young help. This is an organization. This is the year for Bryce Young who played pretty well last year. Panthers at 8. Take him. The wide receiver group in Carolina does not have a true number one again. I know two GMs that are cool on him and I know one that loves him and it's a GM I respect. So Bryce Young needs more help. This kid's a true number one. Go get him at eight. Number nine, Saints. Will Johnson. They moved off Marcus Lattimore, sending him to the commander. So they need a number one. I think he's great. He was hurt at Michigan. I think he's a great. I think he starts for everybody in the NFL. Denver, he starts. He's just not as good as Patrick certainly. I think Will Johnson is an exceptional player. They had the 27th ranked pass defense in the league. They've got to replace Lattimore. I know you're talking about quarterback, but I don't even know what to make of that Derek Carr story. And I think Shedeur is going to be off the board and it's too high to draft Jackson. Dart Will Johnson Nine to the Saints, number 10. Bears. Go get edge. Jaylon Walker. Listen, Montez sweat from the inside let him last year in sacks. They could have drafted in the number one spot in Edge last year. He's a Georgia bulldog who rushes the passer. Great physical specimen. I think you go get him. They keep upgrading in the trenches. The Bears upgraded their O line this year in free agency. I think they upgrade their D line at the top of the draft. I like Walker. To the Bears at 10. Number 11, Niners. I would go Kelvin Banks. Trent Williams is aging at left tackle. He's 37 years old and let's be honest, if you're going to spend money on broke Brock Purdy, then you better protect him. Their old line is the weakness of that football team and he's the best player available. I like him better than Will Campbell. I don't know. I watched a lot of Texas football. He was really good in the big games. He mole people so I like him. Number 12, Cowboys. Amarian Hampton. Running back, North Carolina. I think he's a poor man's Adrian Peterson. Big, strong, just. Just a hard dude to bring down. I mean look at him run. Look at the legs, look at the burst. And let's. Let's face it, the Cowboys running back room is atrocious. 27th in the NFL. They've already invested draft capital in the O line. They've already paid CD Lamb and Dak. They need star power and there's not a good enough wide receiver to draft in this spot. I think this kid is Electric Starter Day 1 and again DAX better on play action than sitting back in the pocket throwing 40 times a game. Number 13, Dolphins. I'd go Will Campbell, LSU. I think he's pretty good. Not as good as Kelvin Banks. Again, you're investing in Tua. Tua has that injury concern. Go get an offensive lineman. You also lost a very good tackle in Toronto Armstead. So let's just, just do this. Go get it. I know it's not sexy. You're moving on. You tried sexy with Jalen Ramsey and Tyreek Hill. How's that working out for you? Just go to the trenches and get a good left tackle. Number 14, the Colts. This will be the steal of the draft. Armand Membu from Missouri who tore it up. Offensive lineman. Outside of Quentin Nelson, none of the offensive lineman In Indy played 17 games. People talk about needing a tight end. Loveland's not good enough to draft in this spot. I think this will end up being the steal of the draft. Will Johnson and Armand Menboo. I mean physical specimen and listen, I think your receivers are good enough. You have Jonathan Taylor and Anthony Richardson. You should probably run more than you do pass anyway. He's a Mauler. I take him at that spot. He's about as good as player. Last year the Colts Chris Ballard waited and got the best pass rusher at like 15th. I think this will be the best player at 14th available and he'll start day one. And at 15th, Atlanta Shemar Stewart, edge rusher, Texas A and M they don't get to the quarterback second fewest sacks in the NFL. Do you want to beat Baker Mayfield? You got to rush Baker Mayfield, put pressure on Baker. And so I think it makes sense. They have used their number first round pick on offense for four straight draft picks. So it's, it's time to pay attention to defense. This, if I was general manager for these teams, I'm not saying this is what they're going to do. This is what I could do. I think the Shadour Sanders I looked at New York over and over and over again and I have come to the conclusion where the best athletes off the board, they've already got a very good defensive line. That's not an area of need. And I think they'll keep Ross for a year. Jamis, Tommy DeVito, he can move off those guys in camp. And I do think there's something to be said about Sanders. Deion Sanders son in New York. It feels big. It feels fun. I mean, the jets don't have a the future quarterback, do they? I mean, do they really have the future quarterback? So the Giants not want to have the future quarterback? I mean, let's be honest about New York. It's a competitive market. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9:00am Pacific. All right, draft week starts officially on Monday. Greg Cosell is going to join us in about 90 seconds to two minutes live. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. J. Mac comes back next week. Jordan Schultz filling in this week has been great. So it's been a fun week for us. I got a little bit of pushback on my Jackson Dart opinions, which I have said. I think he's a better version. Same high school, same basic size, same basic offense. Struggled against better college competition too often for me. He's Zach Wilson, but a little thicker. Got a lot of pushback on that. I think he's a little bit of a nervous thrower in big games when you rush him. I don't love his decision making. Also, I think Shador Sanders, who is one of the most accurate college quarterbacks I can remember seeing playing behind an atrocious offensive line with no run game. I think he's undervalued. I don't get him falling to 21. I don't. I think there's a gap between should do it for me, there's a gap between Shador and Jackson Dart in my trust. If I was a general manager on what I have seen in college through 40 or 50 starts, I trust Shador Sanders to run an offense, be composed, be accurate. Jackson Dart. I accuracy worries me. Tempo worries me. In some big games when he was hurried, he there's a little bit of a Zach Wilson thing that worries me. But I've gotten a lot of pushback, especially on Jackson Dart. With that we bring In Greg Cosell, 45 years NFL Films out this week. By the way, the Tape Notebook, a comprehensive draft guide by the best in the business, Greg Cosell. It's called the Tape Notebook. So listen, everybody has basically said and I think mostly right there's some quarterback talent. It's not a star draft. Let's take Cam Ward. So he was a no star recruitment. I watched him at Washington State because I'm from Washington State but not a lot of people did. He goes to Miami, he pops. Does he look like a bona fide franchise changer on tape?

Colin Cowherd (33:37)

I think he does. Colin. I, you know, it's funny, I finished watching him. I finish all the quarterbacks before the combine because I always get asked about them at the combine. So I finished all those quarterbacks and my opinion doesn't change because it's based on tape. And I saw Ward as a true legit high end prospect who's worthy of a top pick in a draft. He's clearly the most physically gifted quarterback in this draft class. And you know, I just think that the traits, the high traits level and I know some people at Washington State who told me that he's a great kid, that he's got a dog mentality. So I don't think there's any concern there at all with Cam Ward. I spoke to an NFL coach and I felt the same way who said that if he was in last year's draft he would have been in this the conversation with the top three and I personally believe that based on tape study.

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Okay, so we I've said I think Tennessee is going to be a playoff team with him. That's my one of my upset picks. I think he's a starter now. I like Shador more than others because I can't get past this. When I watched him and I probably watched him like everybody else a dozen times, I thought he was kind of uniquely accurate. Moving left, moving right, holds right, holds the ball too long. Some of that though may just be get more refined. So it does worry me. They say he's Not a great athlete, but he feels like he moves well enough. To me, he had to with that O line. I think he's a B prospect, not an A. What's the tape say to you?

Colin Cowherd (35:03)

Yeah, I, I think at his core he's not a statue by any means. Just like CJ Stroud has turned out. Not to be a statue, but at his core he's a pocket quarterback. And I think he's got an over the top delivery. He's an easy, natural thrower of the football. He is accurate. He did throw about 150 screen passes this year. So I think the 70%, whatever it was, completion percentage, that is irrelevant in conversations about him just because of the high number of screens he threw. I like Jador Sanders. I think there's two things that he clearly has to work on. One is he has a tendency to retreat backwards when he feels pressure and that cannot happen in the NFL. And the other thing, and this can be cleaned up, is he tends when he perceives pressure to hold the ball with one hand, with his right hand. And you know, that's disaster in the NFL. But I think he's an easy, natural throw of the football. He's pretty rhythmic. That's his game. There are plenty of examples on tape where he stood in the pocket in the face of pressure and delivered the football. And I think that's, that's real positive. He's going to have to do as a pocket quarterback. You're going to have to do that. You're going to have to work in squeezed pockets and stand and deliver. And I think he showed that it's always easy to talk about offensive line. We saw this with Caleb Williams. The one other thing that's concerning is quarterbacks that get sacked a lot in college for whatever the reason, Colin get sacked a lot in the NFL. We saw that with Caleb Williams this past year.

PayCor Advertiser (36:29)

Okay, we'll probably start disagreeing here. Jackson Dart worries me. When I first watched them in college, I thought of Zach Wilson. I didn't know they went to the same high school. Power high school in Utah.

Colin Cowherd (36:41)

Right.

PayCor Advertiser (36:42)

You know, they've kind of the RPO thing, very successful. Didn't always think Jackson Dart saw the field particularly well. That was my knock on Zach Wilson, also my knock on Justin Field. Some guys just don't see it as quickly. They have slower eyes or whatever they call it. I don't see him as a first round quarterback. Tell me I'm wrong. What do you see?

Colin Cowherd (37:04)

I don't think you're necessarily wrong. I kept going Back and forth on Jackson Dart. I watched him last summer from his 2023 tape. I think I watched 10 or 11 games this year because I just couldn't get a great feel on what I think he'll be in the league because that's what we're talking about. We're not talking about college football. We're talking about the projection and transition. I think I ultimately came down on the fact that he could be a quality starter depending on any number of variables and variances, which is usually the case with most quarterbacks. You know, the system he ran at Ole Miss, it was a really good system. He was very efficient and proficient at it. They did run a lot of NFL route concepts contrary to what people might believe. One thing that always bothers me, I kind of learned this from Phil Sims years ago, and it always bothers me with quarterbacks. Once Phil told me and it resonated is he worked hard, Colin, to throw the ball and guys that work hard to throw the ball. I always think when there's going to be pressure and you have to kind of sit on your back foot and drive the ball with some velocity, I always wonder how that's going to play out. Like, for instance, Cam Ward has zero problem with that whatsoever. So, you know, I just kept going back and forth on Dard. I'm not quite as low on him as you are, but I'm just not certain about what he is in the league. I think it's going to be a function of team, coach, the offense that he's asked to run. So many factors that we just don't know right now.

PayCor Advertiser (38:32)

Okay, so it's funny because I keep hearing this about this Louisville quarterback, Tyler Shock.

Colin Cowherd (38:41)

Yep.

PayCor Advertiser (38:41)

Okay. Been hurt a lot, bounced around a lot. He's 27. The truth is, when I was in college, you go to your college dorm and there's always that one old guy in the college dorm and he runs the floor. I forget the name of it, but he runs the floor. And he's got a beard and he drinks better beer. He drinks better beer than all of us. We're drinking, you know, like cheap, Milwaukee's Best. And I think to myself, it reminds me of this guy. Like, listen, he's 27. He should be more physically developed. He should be smarter. He's got more reps, but it's like he's older than Trevor Lawrence. I'm always so reluctant on, like, really old college quarterback who crushes in his final year of college. What do you make of Louisville's quarterback?

Colin Cowherd (39:29)

Well, I Can only tell you what I saw in film. And by the way, in talking to people around the league, the age doesn't bother them as much as the injury history, so just keep that in mind. But I thought that after Cam Ward, just purely on tape, that he had the next best tape of any quarterback in this year's draft. I mean, he's a big kid. He's almost 6 5. And by the way, that's a trait. He's almost 6 5. He throws the ball really, really well. He's got movement, ability. I like Tyler Schuck a lot. I don't know where he's going to get drafted. I doubt he's a top five pick, but, you know, I think the tape was really, really strong. And I really liked his game a lot. And, you know, I've heard people who do this kind of thing, you know, that interview him, talk to him, say that he is really mature, which of course he should be, as you said, but that he's ready to go right now. He's one of those guys that's really impressive in person, but the tape was very, very impressive. Colin.

PayCor Advertiser (40:26)

Okay, so I said this about Aston Genty. It's a really good running back draft, but I remember years ago. I'll tell a story. So it was a draft that had Patrick Willis, the Ole Miss linebacker. And I don't know if you and I were doing our thing back then, but I remember watching the pre. YouTube. I saw a couple pieces of video as I was waiting for the draft where he literally ran down an sec running back. And I said, I'm like, that's the best player in this draft or the. The SEC at that time. I said, that piece of tape doesn't look normal. That's. That's a pro. I saw a piece of tape like Jamar Chase as a sophomore. I'm like, that guy would start for everybody in the NFL. Aston Genty, even against Oregon, is bouncing off NFL, NFL players. Oregon's got NFL dudes. Penn State, he's just. It seems like nobody. Maybe it's because he's five, seven and a half, five eight. I watch his tape and I'm like, I know he went to Boise State. I know he's small. Nobody can get a clean shot on him. I think we're looking at a star here, aren't we?

Colin Cowherd (41:29)

Well, that's the magic to him. The contact balance, the ability to absorb hits, continue to move without losing any momentum or speed. That's kind of his magic elixir. That's what makes Him a really, really good back. You know, it's interesting that he didn't run because I'm not sure that he's straight line fast the way we think of it. But I don't think that matters for NFL running backs for the most part. But no, I think he'll be a really good back. You know, it's interesting in talking to people, there are some people, and you might disagree with this totally, but there are some people in the league who think that Omarion Hampton is a better NFL prospect in Genti and I guess we'll find out. But there's no question the contact balance, the low center of gravity. He's only five, eight and a quarter, five'eight and a half. So he's very low to the ground. He's very tough to get a clean hit on. And he's got that ability just to sort of. It's not power per se. It's not like he runs over people, he pinballs off people. He absorbs it and continues and that's a very rare trait. And he's got that. And I mean, he'll be a good pro. You know, Again, it's always hard to know. You know, running backs are hard, Colin. I'll tell you why. Who would have thought what three, four years ago that Kyron Williams coming out of Notre Dame would be an NFL feature back and have 316 carries last year, you know, and not even play the final game of the season. So it's very difficult with a lot of these backs. So much is dependent on team and scheme.

PayCor Advertiser (42:54)

So Travis Hunter, I do think Ohtanian baseball is something that we're all shocked to see. But I do think going forward we're going to see a few Travis Hunters. We're going to see kids now athletically that can play both sides of the ball. His motor is weird. He can play 88 snaps and on the 88 snap he looks like he's. It's his third snap of the game. I would prefer getting him the ball than defending the ball. When you watch tape, is he a better receiver or corner?

Colin Cowherd (43:26)

I would probably say at this point in time he's probably a better receiver. But I think that corners, you know, you can always find quality receivers. Really good corners are tougher to find and I think in terms more of preparation. Colin, do you think, and I, you know, do you think you can be a part time corner? You know, think of it this way. Imagine if you're, you know, he's not going to be on the Eagles, but just Think of it this way. Imagine Nick Sirianni walking into Vic Fangio on a Wednesday, you know, as they're preparing for a game and saying, hey, Coach Vic, you know, today Travis is going to be with the offense, not with you. Well, Vic's going to tell him, well then you know what, he's not playing on Sunday because you know what, we're putting in 15 new things. And if he's not here for the practice and the meetings and all the things that we're going to do, you know, I don't care how gifted he is, but you know what, if he makes a mistake, we're giving up a 60 yard touchdown. So to me it's not whether he's physically capable of doing it, but he may be that freakish guy that is because what he did in college is absolutely remarkable. It's ridiculous. But I think it's more about the preparation during the week. I'm not sure you can be a part time outside corner in the NFL and start, I don't mean being a nickel or any of that. I mean playing, you know, 70 snaps at outside corner because there's too much, I think that goes into the preparation with that in conjunction with the rest of your defense, whereas you can be a part time receiver in terms of playing 15 or 20 snaps in given packages. So I'm not sure that's going to work out. But I mean, he's obviously a uniquely gifted athlete.

PayCor Advertiser (44:59)

Okay, so I know this is not a first round player or maybe a second round player, but. And I know his deep ball is erratic, but I said, when I watch Kyle McCord, anything intermediate or under, he lets it rip, he's accurate, he can squeeze a ball into tight spots. He's played with a powerhouse and then he's played with Syracuse, he's wildly productive, he's a pure, he's a pocket guy. But I said he's a pocket guy, no question. So he's not going to be a first and probably a second round pick. But I said if, if McVay went and got him and he sat behind Stafford for two years. I look at Kyle McCordon, I'm like, I know he's not sexy athletically. That looks like a starting quarterback to me. If you told me there was a guy that got drafted in the fourth that in two years started and was effective, I like him. But, but he's just a pocket guy. So does that limit him in your evaluation?

Colin Cowherd (45:52)

Well, let me ask you this. Everything you just said, and I just thought of this right now, and I'm sure people are going to say I'm crazy, but everything you just said, how would that be different from Shadir Sanders?

PayCor Advertiser (46:08)

Yeah. Shedeur maybe throws a better deep ball.

Colin Cowherd (46:11)

Yeah, well, I agree with that. You know, McCord's an interesting guy because one of the things that really struck me when I watched him, and I think he throws a good ball. He does have a tendency, and I don't know if this can be cleaned up. It just might be the way he throws. He does have a tendency certain times to lift his back foot off the ground before he throws, and that impacts your velocity and your accuracy at times. But I like the player. You know, he's one of those guys, and I don't normally think like this, but just for you and I talking, like, if 10 is the highest, to me, he's like a seven in everything. You know, he's just. He's a solid player. It's possible that he could be a starting quarterback for sure. I mean, because now you get into team and scheme again, you know, if he's got a run game. And I know people are going to say, well, everybody needs this, but you and I both know that there are certain quarterbacks in the league that can overcome deficiencies, whether it's within their offense. If they don't have a great defense, they can overcome deficiencies because they can just make those wonderful individual plays. McCord is, you know, do you look at McCourt and think of Kirk Cousins in his prime in Minnesota? Do you see that?

PayCor Advertiser (47:16)

Yeah. I mean, a little bit. I remember Kirk at Michigan State. I think I will say, I think he's a more aggressive thrower than Kirk. He'd throw more picks. He's got a little Philip Rivers attitude. He lets it rip sometimes.

Colin Cowherd (47:27)

Yeah.

PayCor Advertiser (47:28)

And I don't think it's the best decision in the world. Whereas Kirk is pretty safe.

Colin Cowherd (47:32)

Yeah. Although, I mean, if you told a team that drafted McCord and said, well, we think you're like Kirk Cousins, and cousins for what, four, five, six years in a row, threw 35 touchdowns and 10 picks every year, and you said, well, you know, if he could do that, I bet teams would say, that's pretty good. We'll take that.

PayCor Advertiser (47:48)

Yeah. Okay. I want to. I want to do this. You've been doing. I have so much respect for you. I've always said there are certain positions that I can look at and go, oh, yeah, that works. Like corner. There's not many good ones.

Colin Cowherd (47:59)

Right.

PayCor Advertiser (47:59)

If you run a 4, 3, 5, like the kid At Texas, the corner, he's not fast enough to be a dominant corner, but he's a really good player and he'll, he'll make it in the league. Will Johnson, by the way, is not a burner either. But if you play enough zone, Will Johnson from Michigan is going to be a very good NFL corner, but he's not a burner. He's not going to guard your speed guy. That's not what he is. But he's a typical Harbaugh, tough, smart player. So I, but I always think I can watch corner and go, yeah, that works in the NFL. I also think a lot of times, you know, quarterbacks obviously very hard, people keep telling me, this is not a great offensive tackle draft. I want to talk and I want to ask you. So I watch Kelvin Banks in big games and I'm like, yeah, that's a starting tackle. Is there a position in the NFL, college NFL that you have struggled with and you just have to watch it in the NFL? Like when I watch Kelvin Banks, I'm like, I think he's, is he close to Joe Alt? But everybody's telling me, nah, there's no great tackles. How do you look at tackle? Because it's a 330 pound man that needs good feet. And is that a position that you've struggled with for years and you're like, I just gotta watch it in pros first?

Colin Cowherd (49:09)

Well, there's positions where I feel like I have to watch a lot of games because they're hard. And those two positions are corner and safety. Because you can go through games and depending on how the game plays out, they may not do a lot. So you have to sit and watch games and games and games. And I try to space out how I do corners and safeties because if you watch five or six in a row, Colin, I mean, let's face it, almost every corner you watch, unless he's terrible or unless he's ridiculously special, after a while they all look kind of the same. They all, oh yeah, their hips are pretty good, they transition pretty good. You know, they start to look the same. So I space it out. But to get to offensive tackle, I think the litmus test for offensive tackles in the NFL. So you have to think about this when you're watching guys in college is can you pass protect one on one on third down? Because there's not one single offensive coordinator in this league that wants to keep a tight end or a back end on third down. They want to send five out and be as detailed and subtle with their route concept as they can possibly be. So the litmus test for offensive tackles in the NFL is can they pass protect on third down on third and long. And if you don't feel they can do that, then they're not NFL quality offensive tackles.

PayCor Advertiser (50:23)

Well, you know, let's end with this because Bruce Arian said about Jalen Milroe, he said, when I look at a college quarterback, how is he in the two minute drill and on third down? And he goes, I don't see Jalen Milroe being a guy that on a big third down when everybody in the ballpark knows you're throwing or a two minute drill when everybody in the football stadium knows you're throwing, he goes, I just don't see that guy doing that. And I listen to Bruce Arians and he's a little mechanical for me. Great kid. But do you look at quarterbacks the same way? As I always say in the NFL, the difference between the haves and have nots is third and eight and big Fangio knows you're throwing the topic.

Colin Cowherd (51:02)

Well, yeah, it's the, yeah, the NFL with quarterbacks are the must have downs, third downs, red zone, you know, two minute end of game, the must have situations. But I will say this, and this is where the game has changed and just not speaking totally about Millereau, but the fact is how many quarterbacks now beat you on third down with their legs? It changes the game, particularly in the red zone. I mean look at Jalen hurts. I mean the game has changed to the point where it's third and eight. You have to defend differently now because the quarterback can run. You know, Bruce Ariansand, he certainly knows more than I Dogod, the guy was doing it for years and years and years, you know. But the bottom line is it's not just now about dropping back and sitting in the pocket. Some guys it is. That's the way Shadar Sanders is going to have to beat you. But Jalen Milroe, who's obviously not the refined passer that Sanders is at this moment in time when it's third and eight, the defense has to play differently because he can take off and run for 20 yards.

PayCor Advertiser (52:02)

Yeah. Okay. Out this week, the tape notebook as we look at some Jalen Milroe a comprehensive draft guide. The best in the business. Greg Cosell, as always, my friend, it's.

Colin Cowherd (52:11)

Good talking, Colin, really enjoyed it. Thanks so much.

PayCor Advertiser (52:15)

Yeah, so yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of fascinating when you, the quarterback positions obviously very hard because, you know, it's a leadership position. I was talking yesterday to a general manager, and we were talking about the jets and Aaron Glenn, and it's similar to quarterbacks. He said coaches are CEOs. Now Sean McVeigh's a CEO. He goes, now sometimes you get lucky and you get Andy Reid, who's a CEO and a schematic genius. Belichick was that defensively. Shanahan is that. He goes, but you're hiring a CEO. That's what your coach is. You've got coordinators to call plays. You're the CEO. Belichick would have the headset on, not calling plays, not even doing deep. He's doing situational coaching. Right. Okay, big third down. Here's what we're going to do. He's coaching to win the game. A lot of times, coordinators, position coaches, you know, they're padding resumes. Right. And so when we were. I was talking about him, he said, it's just in college, it's different. You can be calling plays. Lane Kiffin, you're recruiting, you're dominating personnel in the NFL, you're a CEO. Aaron Glenn was not a very good CEO. With Aaron Rodgers, he tried to go rogue. He tried to go alpha. He's like, that's. That's not what a good CEO does. So this person, this executive said, that's just bad CEOing by Aaron Glenn, and that's what a pro coach is. Yeah. Occasionally you get McVeigh, who also is good with schematics. Most of them aren't. And it's the same with quarterback, is that it would be great if everybody's great from the pocket. And though Lamar Jackson's always been better from the pocket than anybody acknowledges, the truth is, what Greg said is true. You have to defend Lamar differently. You just can't. By the way, good luck playing man to man against Lamar Jackson, because once a defensive back turns, boom, he's off and running. So a guy like Jalen Milroe is going to see more zone than Shador Sanders. Shadur is not going to take off and run. So you can play man to man. Very hard to play man to man with Anthony Richardson or. Or a Jalen Milroe or a quarterback that likes to run. So there Bo Nix. By the way, last year, Bo Nix ran a ton. He not running against the zones. Bo Nix is running against man. Corners turn their back, boom, he's off and running. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the iHeartRadio app search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. I think Houston's gonna upset Golden State. Golden State's got a Jonathan Kaminga issue. We. It's. I think it's gonna be wide open outside. You know, Oklahoma City's not playing Boston. They get the buys. Other than that, it's. I mean, I don't think Detroit's gonna beat New York, but I think they're gonna make the Knicks sweat for it. So who are the 10 best players in the playoffs to keep your eye on? Number one's an easy one, Nikola Jokic. But listen to this. The Nuggets were plus 594 when he was on the floor this year and minus 275 when he wasn't an 800 point swing. I mean, he's just after Kareem. He's the best center I've ever seen. His dexterity is incredible. He's the best player. I'm gonna give Giannis the number two player defensively, much better than Jokic. I worry about him shooting free throws late, 61% on the year, so he's got a little Shaq liability late in games. But one of the more dominant athletes in the NBA. I think he played his best late in the year. Giannis is two sga. Number three, very good defender with an insane wingspan for a point guard. Led the NBA in scoring. I'm not sure he's going to get the whistle, but he's just a. He's just a bucket. I mean, that's just all there is to it. He is just a bucket again, plays real defense and that's why I put him three and I put Luka at four, who tends to get worn out in the playoffs and is a defensive liability. But passing and shooting and scoring, he can just take over games. There will be stretches in this playoff where he looks like the best player in the world and I can't wait to watch it because he doesn't have to carry the offense, but he's the most gifted player on offense and this is going to be a real statement series for him because he came to the Lakers off an injury, wasn't in great shape. I can't wait to watch it. Number five, Steph Curry. Best player in the game without the ball. Great free throw shooter, great three point shooter, ball handler. He is the culture. And playoff Jimmy's going to take a little pressure off him now. It's a tough matchup against the Rockets. Amand Thompson's their best athlete and this is going to be a workout, a working series for him. But I think he's number five. Jason Tatum, who does everything very well, although not necessarily everything great, but he's very good at everything, is sick. This is not a knock on him. It's just, you know, he doesn't have a lot of iconic moments or moves. And there are moments that Jaylen Brown feels like he's going to take the big shot. Jayson Tatum though, leads the Celtics and the stuff that matters, points, rebounds, assists. All through last year's run, he's number six. Number seven is ant who I just don't think is as refined as Jayson Tatum is as a player. Yet he led the NBA in made threes this year, so that's a real thing. He's going to have to score 40 plus in multiple games for the T Wolves to beat the Lakers. He was, it's a very hot team entering the playoffs. He doesn't have a lot of help on offense. I don't trust Julius Randle in the playoffs, although I like Julius Randle as a player. So I would put ant 7 and this just really indicates how good the playoffs are now. You think I'm crazy putting LeBron 8, but I don't get a consistent defensive effort from LeBron. And I also think there are going to be moments in these playoffs where LeBron's going to let Luka take over. So LeBron is the best closer in the NBA. And what do I mean by that? He led the league in shots made in the fourth quarter. LeBron also right now is often the first or second best player in the league in spurts. He's very smart and calculated. He will save himself for later in games. But SGA and Jokic could could end the game in the second quarter. That's not really what LeBron is right now. I put him eight. Number nine, Kawhi Leonard again. Do you get six or seven games per series? I don't know, but he's playing great late in the season. Real minutes. I mean five, six years ago, I mean we were like, he's a less dynamic Jordan. I mean he's a get a bucket, huge hands, really good defender, incredibly strong for his weight. KAWHI Leonard, number nine. Number 10, Donovan Mitchell, former Utah Jazz, led the team, best offense in the league. Very efficient. He just a real pro. He's just gotten better and better. But his teams never advanced past the second round. Cleveland's a team that doesn't get a lot of love during the regular season, but they feel like a more Adult Oklahoma City, where there are like what Oklahoma City is going to be next year in the playoffs. So Cleveland, we've been waiting for them. Oh, last two years we've been like, oh. And they just. The NBA is a baby steps league and they, Cleveland just wasn't ready. I think Cleveland's now ready and I think they could beat the Celtics. They're built to beat the Celtics. They're a tough matchup for the Celtics, but I think Boston's better than we're giving them credit for. So Those are my 10 best players. I know what you're going to say. Well, Jayson Tatum 6 because the five guys ahead of Jayson Tatum, if I said to you I need a bucket now, I would trust, I would trust the five guys ahead to get a bucket. Now. I think Tatum has got great dexterity and does everything well, but there are times in big spots where I'm not quite sure I want him or Jaylen Brown shooting it. But now Tatum's had his best year. I know this will be viewed as a, as a shot, but everybody loves Ann Edwards and I think Jason's a more complete player than Anne Edwards right now. Two things that jump out. If Kawhi is right and he's healthy, he could easily be two or three.

Colin Cowherd (60:30)

And so if we believe that he's.

PayCor Advertiser (60:33)

Going to have a healthy playoff run, considering he's probably been the best player.

Colin Cowherd (60:36)

In the league the last six weeks.

PayCor Advertiser (60:37)

Well, he also is like a Jimmy Butler. Kawhi usually plays better in the playoffs, so he's. There's no question. Now I have like Jimmy Butler just missing the list.

Colin Cowherd (60:47)

Yeah, but I just.

PayCor Advertiser (60:48)

The Clippers are the wild card team. Everyone I think is scared of what they could be. The other thing, and I mentioned this the other day, you have Mitchell there 10.

Colin Cowherd (60:56)

I went and saw Knicks Cavs the.

PayCor Advertiser (60:57)

Other day and it was, it was unbelievable to me to see how connected Cleveland was. They have such a great feel to them. They're so incredibly deep. Yeah. I don't know if they're quite there but, but they're dangerous. And I, I certainly that the Mobley and Allen in the front court and then the guards, Garland and Mitchell. That is lethal. Yeah, no, they're, they're really well run. They've done a really good job. So it is, listen, it's top heavy Celtics, OKC and Cleveland feel better than everybody else. I think the Lakers are the best of the next group, but I mean Oklahoma City's good, but really young. Cleveland and Boston I think are the two Best teams built for the playoff OKC was the best regular season team. Cleveland, Boston I think are built for the best playoff run size. They can both defend you coaching. Yeah, they can both defend you at the rim, on the wing, at the point. They just, they offer a lot of stuff. I'm excited for it. Looking to transform your business through better HR and payroll? Meet Paycor, a paychecks company. The powerhouse solution that empowers leaders to drive results from recruiting and development to payroll and analytics. Paycor connects you with the people, data and expertise you need to succeed. Their innovative platform helps you make smarter decisions about your most valuable asset, your people. Are you ready to become a Better Leader? Visit paycor.com leaders to learn more. That's paycor.com leaders the 40s and free agents Podcast with Daniel Jeremiah and Greg Rosenthal has prepared you for for the 2025 NFL Draft.

Colin Cowherd (62:36)

We've told you what last year's playoff teams need to return to the postseason.

PayCor Advertiser (62:40)

And how teams with new coaches should approach the draft.

Colin Cowherd (62:42)

So as draft season comes to a close, we've got you covered. Before your favorite team goes on the clock, we'll break it all down once all 257 picks have been made.

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Listen to the 40s and free agents podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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We live in a divided country and our media couldn't be more polarizing. That's why we started the Middle with Jeremy Hobson. It's about bringing voices not from the extremes, but from the vast middle into the national conversation. Each week we hear from ordinary Americans from all over the country. And when you subscribe to the Middle, you also get an episode each week called One Thing Trump did that focuses on just one item from the avalanche of news. Listen to the Middle with Jeremy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare.

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Someone was posting photos. It was just me naked.

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This is Levittown, a new podcast from iHeart podcasts Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope about the rise of deepfake pornography and the battle to stop it. Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.