Colin Cowherd (2:55)

You gaining some weight, huh? Yeah. Right before your big trip. Yeah. Putting on some pounds so you can look like a typical American over there? Yeah, I am. All right. We do it every Monday at this time. Colin is right, Colin is wrong. And there is, as always, plenty of both where Colin was right. Well, I'm somewhat vindicated. I broke the story a year ago that Caleb Williams and most notably his dad were a little uneasy. Uneasy and unsure about his son playing in Chicago. Excellent reporter Seth Wickersham also last week reporting the same thing. Listen, Caleb and his dad, looking at the history of the quarterback position had said, this is where quarterbacks go to die. I was told the same thing. Caleb didn't want to push the nuclear button. He did not want to start his NFL career in controversy. So he complied. He went to the Bears. But it should be duly noted that all of his concerns about the Bears and chaos did come true.

Jason McIntyre (3:58)

Where Colin was wrong.

Colin Cowherd (4:00)

I would not have paid Brock purdy in the 50 millions, but the Niners did. I said, Listen, Tua and Dak, you'll become top heavy. And the Dolphins and the Cowboys did listen. Kyle Shanahan is run the operation. He's a smart kid, moves pretty well, terribly coachable and let's be honest, when you give him time with the weapons like Kittle and Jennings, he's an accurate distributor of the football. I thought they'd push back. I thought they'd try to get in the 40s. But he got closer to 55 million than 45 million. Where Colin was right. Caitlin Clark. It took a year, but the league has finally figured it out. The WNBA is going to televise at this point point today all but two of her games and those may eventually get televised. She is Taylor Swift meets Tiger Woods. We said this last year the league just didn't quite know what it had. Right now the Fever are out drawing not only a good team in the Indiana Pacers but a highly entertaining Eastern Conference finals team in the Indiana Pacers. She is a once in a generation not only talent talent but revenue stream. And the WNBA has finally figured it.

Jason McIntyre (5:23)

Out where Colin was right.

Colin Cowherd (5:26)

I thought the Denver Nuggets would push Oklahoma City to six or seven games. I did like the Thunder to win the series based on depth and levers their coach could pull. But the series, if you listen to odds makers they thought it was going to be a landslide. And I'm sorry, even the odds makers don't quite understand how good Jokic is. I thought yesterday by about mid to late second quarter they ran out of gas. Murray didn't do anything. Aaron Gordon was playing at about 70% but I thought it would be a close series and it was Where Colin was wrong. The New York Knicks, listen after they won that first game coming back from 20 in Boston, I said they're not going to win, they're not going to win another game in this series. And I really believed it. But the physicality in the NBA playoffs benefited a lot of teams. I mean it made the Pistons more viable against the Knicks, it helped the Knicks, it helped the Pacers, it helps Minnesota. And Boston was a pretty team that was heavily reliant on threes and three point shooting has gone down significantly in these playoffs. I'm here for it. I like the layered style of play. The NBA is encouraging. But I was wrong on that series.

Jason McIntyre (6:39)

Where Colin was right.

Colin Cowherd (6:41)

I never got the hate for Tyrese Halliburton iq, EQ distributes, controls, pacing he can score, elevate others. He was voted most overrated player on an NBA Anonymous poll. Some of it's just petty, but I think when you watch him play you're seeing the future of the NBA. The new CBA is not going to allow for stacked rosters. It's going to be point guard driven, elevating other B&B plus players. And I think Halliburton's as good as anybody at the league at that. Where Colin was right, the New England Patriots I said back in March they are the number one bet on my board to double their wins and the over unders and or future bets came out last week and lo and behold the Patriots were favored in 11 of their 17 games. So listen major upgraded head coach D line. They had 11 draft picks so I can only assume their depth will be better. I think they got a left tackle in the draft and Will Campbell. So I don't think there's question the AFC is harder top to bottom than the nfc but I think a coaching upgrade Sean Payton proved this in Denver can be somewhere between three, four and six points per game and if you had just given this team six to seven points more last year they would have won 10 games where Colin was right. Well now even X dealers, popular X dealers like Ryan Clark are sounding off about Mike Tomlin. I think Mike Tomlin is going to get votes for the hall of Fame I think he's a great motivator. But Rya Clark said last week his message has grown stale. Listen, it's an offensive league. This team can't figure out their offensive line for seven years. They're showing no urgency at quarterback. Who knows if Aaron Rodgers is going to be around. Even Pat Riley used to say it, you get about 10 years to coach and then people, players tune you out. I think Tomlin's going to get hall of Fame votes. But listen, Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, all time coaches have moved on or been moved out and I just feel like it's time in Pittsburgh. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan? Sorry. A box fan? Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some French fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn? Order it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels. Clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered. Don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the tit. The Ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out, not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified Interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started? Well, with the Gemini credit card you can dip your toes into Bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other crypto straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini credit card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit card is issued by Web Bank. In order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus, your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk for more details on rates, fees and other Gemini credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Hey everybody. You've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official whiskey of the Herd podcast. And if you know anything about me, I love a good metaphor. So the team at Green river challenged me to come up with a perfect metaphor to describe their incredible bourbon and rye whiskeys. And with the playoffs upon us, the answer is clear. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team, always sure to raise your spirits. So pair the thrills of this playoff season with Green River Whiskey. And with four core products in their starting lineup, there's something to suit any taste. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhisky.com here's the green River Whiskey. Raise your spirits. A product of Green River Distilling Co. Owensboro, KY. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly. So I saw this story this morning. You know Bill Belichick goes to Carolina. When when Deion Sanders went to Colorado, the first thing that was inarguable is he sold the stadium out and Colorado was a sputtering program. There wasn't any interest. Boulder's sort of a, you know, it's sort of a wild, fun place you go to have a good time very infrequently. Have they had a lot of interest or a lot of success in football? And even with Deion, they weren't super successful, but they got on TV a lot. They were interesting. I, I thought he did a pretty good job to get them on television. They don't win a ton of games even though they are in the Big 12, which is one of the weaker conferences. Not ACC weak, but kind of weak. But, but Deion has made them relevant. And in college football, the recruiting at Colorado now is relevant and that's what matters. Now. I do think Carolina historically is a better football program than Colorado and there's more money in it, especially for football. But this is interesting. Carolina has sold out their season tickets before they have played a game under Bill Belichick. So it's the Dion effect. And I think what is fascinating about Belichick, so I think if you put Belichick in the SEC or the Big Ten, he'd get rolled because I've always had this theory is that the key to NFL coaching is just raw intelligence. Mostly smarter coaches win because you pick the players and you can practice much longer. College football is different. You need to be able to recruit. You got to have great energy. Intelligence to some degree can be muted. Now we, we know Nick Saban is really smart, but Nick was also relentless on the recruiting trail. Tons of energy, always a smile, great brand and, and you know, again relentless when it came to getting players. He was pre nil. The best recruiter I think I've ever seen. So and, and so I always thought Jon Gruden would be a great college coach. Smart enough, but great recruiter, great energy. Pete Carroll is not known as a schematic whiz. Great college coach Jim Harbaugh simple themes, repetitive in his themes. Great energy and recruiter. Yet Bill Walsh at Stanford his last two years he was 7, 14 and 1 combined. Arguably the smartest coach in league history. Bill Walsh was smart players not that successful at Stanford. Jim Harbaugh much more successful. Harbaugh could recruit. Harbaugh had greater energy. Harbaugh had very simple themes. Belichick smart. I think the one thing that saves Belichick is the ACC is terrible. I looked at Joel Klatt's preseason top 15. There is one ACC team in it and that is Clemson. Now Clemson has a, I think the second or third best quarterback in college football and they returned most of their really good players. They didn't transfer, but they're not really an nil story. I don't think they're a national championship contender, but I think they have a good coach, they have a first round quarterback and a lot of good players returned and didn't transfer. But there's no other ACC teams there. You got BYU and Arizona State and South Carolina and Illinois, all above the next ACC team. So my take is Belichick's a little grumpy. Belichick is energy is meh. Belichick's a so so recruiter and his messaging, let's be honest, kind of complex now. I think he, Charlie Weiss was another guy who was a really smart guy. He kind of bragged about his schematic advantage. He had a big brand, Notre Dame, energy, recruiting, very average. And so I do think what saves Bill is the acc. If you look at their schedule outside of the Clemson game, they can match up with anybody. I mean, there's just W's everywhere in this thing. But like Deion Sanders. And this is why I've supported Bill Belichick and Jordan Hudson. Carolina's a basketball school. Colorado's a nothing school. Social currency attention is your stock market. And I think North Carolina and Belichick, I've got him as my third story today. I don't have the Carolina Tar Heels basketball program as my third story. So for some of these programs, like Colorado and Carolina selling out the stadium, getting on television, raising nil money trumps getting to the playoffs. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Covino and I'm Rich Davis and together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends from for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Ko Vino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and rich summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. Now what do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parm delivered. A day at the lake. That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. A box fan. Happily, yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. How about a box of fine wines? Yeah, that's happening. Delivery's on its way. Okay. How about some clear skies? Nope. Well, how about some french fries? Yeah. So how about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But a barbecued prawn or it and it's on its way. Even throw in some paper towels clean up after the feast. So while you can't get fun in the sun delivered, don't worry because you can get pork buns delivered. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. At the end of the season, there's only one team that can call themselves NBA champs. Only one player that can call themselves the number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, there's only one electric SUV worthy of the title. The ultimate. The all electric BMW ix. What I love about the IX is that it delivers legendary BMW performance. While its sleek design exudes innovative style from the inside out. Not to mention how much space and utility it provides. Over 75 cubic feet of cargo space. The IX is completely changing the game with an all electric suv. The greatest legends of sports never compromise any part of the game. So why would you settle for anything less from your suv? After all, there's only one ultimate the BMW ix. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine. Electrified interested in investing in Bitcoin but not sure how to get started. Well, with the Gemini credit card you can dip your toes into bitcoin without even trying. Just spend like you normally do, groceries, gas or a night out and instantly earn up to 4% back in Bitcoin or one of over 50 other crypto straight to your account with no annual fee. The Gemini credit card is pretty much a no brainer and right now you can grab a $200 bitcoin intro bonus. So go to gemini.com card to learn more and start earning today. Terms apply. Again go to gemini.com card start building your Bitcoin stash now. Terms apply. The Gemini Credit card is issued by web bank in order to qualify for the intro $200 crypto bonus. Your application must be approved by June 30, 2025 and spend $3,000 in your first 90 days. Terms apply. Some exclusions apply to instant rewards, in which rewards are deposited when the transaction posts this content is not investment advice and Trading Crypto involves risk for more details on rates, fees, and other Gemini credit card terms, see Rates and Fees. Hey everybody. You've heard me talk about Green River Whiskey, the official Whiskey of the Herd podcast. And if you know anything about me, I love a good metaphor. So the team at Green river challenged me to come up with a perfect metaphor to describe their incredible bourbon and rye whiskeys. And with the playoffs upon us, the answer is clear. Green River Whiskey is like a big playoff win by your favorite team, always sure to raise your spirits. So pair the thrills of this playoff season with Green River Whiskey. And with four core products in their starting lineup, there's something to suit any taste. To find Green river near you, head on over to greenriverwhiskey.com here's the green River Whiskey Raise your spirits. A product of Green River Distilling Co. Owensboro, KY. Alcohol by volume varies by product. Greenriverwhiskey.com Please drink responsibly. Here we go. It is a Wednesday and there is actually a lot to talk about. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. So J. Mac, we learned again today that the NFL owners run everything matter what committees say, doesn't matter what the commissioner says, it doesn't matter what coaches say. It is an owner run league and we got another example of that today with a tush push. I think you and I are pretty much on the same page with it, right? We're fine with this. I, I, I. I don't love it, but here's here's the very latest. The NFL's competition committee said you should get rid of it. The NFL's Health and Safety Commission committee said you should get rid of it. And the NFL owner said, yeah, we're going to keep it. It was close. They needed 24 votes to get rid of was 22, I think. Jason Kelsey, former Eagle center podcaster, apparently spoke to owners and that, in my opinion, was the difference. They're not going to ban it for now. Hey listen, clever coaches are like good accountants. They find loopholes, schemes, right, to benefit their clients and sometimes league rules. Nope, we gave it to you for three years. We're not going to give it to you for four. I've always said the NFL is a TV show and the two things they really care about are entertainment and safety. In no particular order, they care about entertainment and safety. And to me, the Tush push kind of violates both. It looks dangerous and it's ugly. Optics on TV aren't good. It's an ugly play and it almost failed. 22 votes needed. 24. I think Jason Kelsey, speaking on behalf of it, a very respected player who was not, you know, some five star recruit. He was a grinder. He's classic NFL family. The Kelsey's have been great for the league. He spoke and I think he tush pushed it into not being banned. I think his ability to create that play and to keep it from being banned. The Eagles have already posted it on social media. The push stays on. I'm a little surprised. I mean, we see this all the time. Remember years ago, Cam Chancellor would jump over the line and block kicks for the Seahawks. And the NFL felt and it's a little dangerous looking now. There wasn't a ton of data that showed, you know, there was a lot of guys getting hurt. But the NFL didn't like it and they said, I don't think so. The horse collar tackle, they got rid of it. The kickoffs, they look all funky now. They think it's too dangerous. But I think what, what helps the Tush push. There is no current data that a bunch of guys are getting hurt with it. Although I'm not sure a bunch of guys were getting hurt when Cam Chancellor was jumping over a line to block a kick either. But there's no data that shows that it's hurting people. And the second thing is Jason Kelsey's powerful. He is respected. He made a plea to keep it and I think it probably flipped one or two owners. So the competition committee, they and the health and safety committee recommended the league ban it. We don't like it. And usually those recommendations get something banned. But in this instance, the owners and they control it. They control Goodell's salary. Roger Goodell is trying to get a raise here. They control that. They control the length of the schedule. It's the only sport in America where the owners control the TV networks, not vice versa. They tell them what they will pay and then they can, they can blow those TD contracts up in the middle of them and renegotiate it if they want. The NFL owners are all powerful. You got a lot of NBA baseball owners, NBA owners, MLS owners selling stuff. You own an NFL team, just keep it, just keep it and so the owners win again. Here's Dion Dawkins, great left tackle for Buffalo. His opinions are like a lot of players opinions on it. You don't love it, but it's, it's. It's Philadelphia's. What do we do with it? Here's Dion Dawkins.

Jason McIntyre (26:39)

It's a very hard play for a player. It's a very hard play for a player.

Colin Cowherd (26:45)

You know, you're down there, your.

Jason McIntyre (26:46)

Your head is down.

Colin Cowherd (26:47)

You just have to kind of just drive your legs and. And hit three people at one time.

Jason McIntyre (26:52)

Like, it's very hard thing to do. But it's so weird because we play a game of inches, right?

Colin Cowherd (27:02)

Like, what's the best play to get an inch, the touch push?

Jason McIntyre (27:05)

What's the best play to get a yard? Maybe a cubic sneak. And it's hard to take it out or it's hard to change it because it's so necessary in the game. Because sometimes you just need to fall forward and get the first down.

Colin Cowherd (27:21)

And to the Philadelphia Eagles credit, they do it well. I mean, Buffalo got to the AFC championship and they looked unprepared. When they had Superman Josh Allen trying to jump in the air and lean for a yard, it looked, it really looked like they didn't practice it. Philadelphia practices it. They add decoys to it. I thought when Kelsey left it wouldn't be as successful. It is. It does look a little dangerous, but so far I don't think there's any data that shows that it is. And Philadelphia does it better than anybody else. That's their best argument. We created it. We do it better than everybody else. It's available to the entire league. Why are you banning it? As of now, it survives. But it was close. And again, I think Jason Kelsey highly respected him. Speaking to owners, probably Tush pushed it in. Okay, Game one of the Western Conference finals is in the books. And it feels like the series is in the books. So Oklahoma City rolled through the NBA's regular season historically won by an average of 12.9 points. That, like Jordan's Bulls, didn't do that. And then they rolled Memphis in the first round, and then they rolled Minnesota last night. The only team, and actually only player to give him real trouble is Jokic. Nikola Jokic, the joker gave him trouble. They even wore him down. An OKC like the super bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles are not really built on a player. They're built on a general manager. Howie Roseman, GM of the Eagles, Sam Presti, GM of the Thunder. They have built such insanely deep and flexible rosters. You think the coach is good, but is he necessary? They forced the T Wolves to only score from the outside. In fact, Minnesota only had 20 points in the paint. That's their lowest total and they're a big team since 2015. Julius Randle kept him in the game in the first half, shot the ball well, hit a bunch of threes. Once that dried up, the offense dried up. This is a team that they're not necessarily huge, but you ever watch a football team, like you'll watch college football when Alabama was in its prime and the defense was just crushing people. And you're like, do they have 13 players on the field? Like, it looks like they have extra players. Oklahoma City's defense looks like they're playing seven guys. So Jokic could get his, but Murray didn't get his. Porter couldn't get his. They just shut off lanes and avenues and just think about this. So Oklahoma City against a much better west was 39 and 13. So they dominated the West. They were 291 against the East. So you're asking yourself, are the Pacers and the Knicks, which starts tonight, are you. Are they just playing for second place? So Ant Edwards didn't have a great night, didn't get a lot of shots, sometimes invisible. I think he's going to have to have four or five games where he scores 30 plus and I'm not sure you can do this. This is just a defense where a lot of these guys are just entering their athletic prime. Long, twitchy, fast. And Jokic is a great example. They really cut Jokic his passing lanes so the Joker could score, but the passing lanes got cut down. And Jokic is a much more totally refined offensive player than Ant Edwards. Here's what's scary. Oklahoma City's average age is 25 for a team that won 68 games by an average winning total of 13 points. So by the second half, once Julius Randle's threes didn't drop, this looked like a total mismatch. Younger, quicker, better defensively with a lot of levers to pull. Here's Ant Edwards after I definitely got to shoot more.

Jason McIntyre (31:15)

I only took 13 shots, but I'll say probably just get off the ball a little more. Play without the ball. I think that'd be the answer because playing on the ball, they just gonna double and sit in the gaps all day. They clog the paint. That's what they do. They don't got massage down there. So they banking us not making shots. I guess because every time I go to the Rim, it's like four people in the paint. So yeah, I guess they just be clogging the paint. They put like five, four bodies in the paint, make you kick it out. So just keep making the right play.

Colin Cowherd (31:48)

Now here's the good news for Minnesota. They'll eventually go to go play at home where they're really good. Chris Finch and his staff have been excellent at shifting around to second and third gears and figuring out ways to get the most out of the offense. But if you watch the second half, they were just overwhelmed. Memphis got overwhelmed. The west got overwhelmed. The east beat him one time in 30 games. Oklahoma City look really good. Led by defense, of course. SGA is excellent. He gets the whistle. But I think the core of this thing is the depth, the roster construction, the aggressiveness of the defense. You know, generally in sports, a great defense slows down a great offense. If you were the Bulls and mj, you had both. But this, this looked like a mismatch last night in the second half. It looked really, really ugly. All right, so J. Mac, something else came out this morning. I love this. So pff, they do this every year. They come out with a tiers of quarterbacks and it was, it was interesting. I've got a lot of thoughts on it. In my lifetime there's always been one thing that's true with a quarterback position and once again with PFF's quarterback rankings, they ranked everybody in the league. I think once again this happened since I was a kid. It happened during the Elway years, the Montana years, the Brady years, and now during the Mahomes years. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeartRadio app. Oh wow. It's a Thursday show. We are live. It's the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be watching or listening, that was an all timer last night. Epic is overrated. It was that plus jet fuel. It's the Herd that is one of the great playoff games not just played in New York. I, I got to tell you something. I'm sitting there watching it and I'm. The first half, like at one point both teams were shooting like 65% in the first half. I'm like, what am I watching? I was like, AAU basketball. Nobody wanted to D up. And then in the second half, J. Mac, when they were ding up, it didn't matter. The Pacers caught fire. It's. It's one of the craziest things I've ever Seen, yeah, that's certainly an all time great playoff game in the NBA. And Tyrese Halliburton, Colin, I mean, is he a top 10 player at this point where this guy just doesn't miss in the clutch? He's unbelievable. Okay, so the Knicks had a 14 point lead. Wasn't much time left and they lost in overtime. But I'm going to defend the Knicks. They did not choke. The Knicks had three baskets and two free throws in the final three minutes. They scored enough. Now they had some bad turnovers, but they scored enough. The story of the game is give the Pacers credit. That was insane. They couldn't miss in the last six minutes. They shot over 70% and they were hard shots. Aaron Neesmith, six straight threes, three in the final minute. Now this team plays with pace and tempo, so they score fast. We know that. They've done it all season and they're a great clutch team because of Halle. They're 31 and 2 when they score 120 points or more. So you do not want to get into a track meet with the Pacers. That's Milwaukee tried it. Cleveland tried it. The Knicks tried it. Don't they never get tired? They're like watching ninth graders. They never get tired. Charles Barkley said it at halftime. This pace totally favors Indiana. And what's remarkable about Halliburton and Indy is they play at this pace and they don't turn it over. They had seven turnovers on the road against the Knicks. Size and the Knicks tenacity. Seven turnovers. Jalen Brunson alone had seven. So what you watched last night and I said, I think Indy's going to win the series. This is what they did to Milwaukee. This is what they did to Cleveland. They're controlling the tempo. Listen, give the Knicks credit. Knicks should have won. They shot 51%. They got a bad bounce. And I think last night New York beats everybody in the league except Halliburton and the Pacers and maybe okc. Halliburton got the bounce. Neesmith was unbelievable. How about the Gonzaga kid, Nemhardt? Multiple threes late. Obi Toppin, I mean it's just everything worked for them late. But I'll tell you, Halliburton is amazing because he reminds me of Steve Nash. Steve Nash won an MVP averaging 15 a game. The next year he won another MVP averaging 18 a game. But Steve Nash, one of the smartest athletes I've ever met, had unbelievable self awareness and that's Halliburton. What do you need? I'LL provide. The guy plays with zero fear but his self awareness, he knows what the clock is, is uncanny. The choke sign, I love it, bring it on. But he is an all timer man. He is the aggressor. He can play with physicality and again we can bang on the Knicks. But in the last six minutes of the fourth and overtime they scored 24 points. The Pacers scored 44 on 72% shooting. That is unheard of. The Knicks should have won. Now the Knicks had too many turnovers but I think, I think this comes down to Halliburton and the Pacers play with the aggressiveness that I think Celtic fans wish Tatum and Boston did like they just played downhill and Lamar Jackson could throw 48 times a game and win. But that's not how Lamar and the Ravens are built. They're a power football team. With Derrick Henry the Knicks stayed in this game, shot 51% but this is going to be a six or seven game series. This is not what the Knicks are. And yesterday on this show I kept saying over and over the Pacers play the fastest pace in the league. What a perfect name for a team last three years Knicks are the slowest team, that's not a bad thing for the playoffs. Half court offense is great, they play the slowest pace. Whoever wins the pace will win the series. And the Knicks are almost pulled it off. But if you remember last year when these two teams played, what happened? Indiana played really, really quick up tempo and over time the Knicks wore down. This didn't have the body so Indy's got more bodies. They're built for this. Their guys are in their prime. Halliburton controlled it like he did against Cleveland, like he did against the Bucks. The Knicks almost pulled it off but here's Hallie after basketball's fun, you know.

Jason McIntyre (38:27)

Winning is fun and you know I'm so proud of the resilience of this group. We've shown it all year. We've had to win in so many different random unique ways and today we just kept, kept going, kept fighting and man that's fun.

Colin Cowherd (38:42)

Halliburton is a lot like Steve Nash and that everybody that played with Steve Nash was at their best. He'd give you 15 but he elevated everybody. James Harden scored a lot of guys that score Halliburton, this is a one star team with a bunch of B plus players. But what's amazing is the B plus players for Indiana because of Halliburton and self awareness and movement and pace, they're all playing in an A level like all of Indiana's players are rising to the moment. This is not about the Knicks not playing well. This is about Indiana being on fire and making a remarkable number of big shots. If you did not hear the final call, we'll give it to you from the Pacers radio network. Halliburton driving. He's in the lane. He nearly lost it. He backs up and unloads a three.

Jason McIntyre (39:38)

That did not happen.

Colin Cowherd (39:39)

It hit the back of the rim, it popped high into the air and it dropped gently through the net. And the Pacers have. The scoreboard shows 125. 125. It's called a two point shot. So it's just, it's an incredible moment. And I'll get to two things that worry me about the Knicks going forward. Let's now talk about Brunson. So Jalen had 43 points. And you say to yourself, that's a great night, but he had seven turnovers. Why? Because he's playing faster than he's used to. That's the most turnovers Jalen Brunson has had all season. And he also got into foul trouble. Again, we're asking somebody who can type 40 words a minute to type 60. You know, it's just this isn't what he's built for. Brunson and Halliburton are two very different players. Brunson's a score small, strong. He uses, you know, his leverage, he uses his hips. He does that mid post game. He just plays way bigger than his height. But he is a scorer and a finisher. He sometimes is plotting. He wants to get you in that half court. He wants to work you. He's going to work his shoulders, he's going to work his hips. Halliburton's different. He's long, dangly, herky jerky. It's kind of awkward. He's strong and can use it a couple of times on occasion. But what he is, he's the pace car. He is the guy that's gonna. Okay, I'm gonna tell you how, how fast we're all gonna play. And you can't stop him because he's just so long and gangly. He's a very awkward player. He's hard to defend. The two things that worry me about New York after last night, first of all, Carl Anthony Towns, that's about as good as he can play in the playoffs. He was efficient. He's not always efficient. He hit his threes. He didn't get in foul trouble. You know, Cat gets in foul trouble. Cat does dumb fouls. He's a really good offensive player, but through his career, he drives you nuts. I thought Cat last night was spectacular. I don't know if he can duplicate that. I just don't know if he can play any better than that. It was fun watching it. The second thing, is Brunson gonna say, hey man, I got 43. I'm gonna play at this tempo. We're scoring. We should have won the game. They could talk themselves into that. So. But again, I'll say it. Last year when these two teams played in the end of the series, I mean, Brunson last night because of foul trouble, played the fewest minutes of any New York Knicks starter. That is not what you want. I don't care if he scored 43 points. And to lose in overtime, when you have the shorter bench, Game one, you blow a pretty big lead at that pace. I didn't love it. That's a game it feels like for the road team to win that game and control the tempo. Didn't love it for New York. Here's Brunson after. Give them a lot of credit. They close the game out like they've been doing it all playoffs. Just not really good on our part for all the players, and I know it wasn't a huge number, but for the players, that said Halliburton is overrated. Check yourself, because when I'm watching and we were sitting there talking, I look at all, I look at the box score and the difference is Knicks had twice as many turnovers and a couple costly ones in overtime. That's your ball game. But I'm going to push back. I'm going to push back on the choke thing. The Knicks scored six minutes left. They scored 24 points. That's enough. And by the way, you have turnovers when you're playing above your tempo. But I think what you're seeing with Halliburton here, and I don't know if it's innate, I don't know if you're born with it, but there are some people that not only does he rise in the moment, but he elevates all his teammates in the moment. I mean, I got nothing against the Pacer squad, it's a really good team. But there's a lot of B guys right now that are playing an A level on the road in New York against a really well coached team. What you're watching with Indiana is we just got to give them credit. We can blame the Knicks on this. You got to give Indiana credit. They are really really? And we said this J. Mac, you called it. You picked them over Cleveland. And one of the reasons you did, you fell in love with Halliburton last year. Last year on the show folks, if you didn't listen, he went crazy on Halliburton. He basically called him the next Magic Johnson. And I don't think that's his style. But I do see a lot of Steve Nash. Yeah, he can score, he can take the foot off the gas, he can play. But Nash, just when you watch Steve Nash, how did Steve Nash win the MVP at 15 a game? Because he controlled the basketball game. Steve Nash literally controlled every game he was in. People were like how can you win mvp? You had to watch the Suns play. What Indiana is doing and you caught on to it last year is they are between Caitlin Clark and the Pacers. They are so much to me fun to watch. Yeah, I love the Halliburton story. You know, Midwest kid, grew up under, recruited the big colleges didn't want him. I love the stories of these underdogs coming out of nowhere. Colin, he's emerging right now honestly as one of the most clutch players in the league and I mean I don't see how he's not like an all NBA guy, how he's not like a top 10 player. He does everything and like you said, makes everyone around him better. Think about that much like Nash last two years we've talked about the Sixers and the Celtics and we've talked about all these teams, Pacers back to back, back to back Eastern conference finals. But let's be real, the Knicks are not in that much trouble. It took six threes from Niecemith in the fourth quarter. That's I believe an NBA record. Like listen, we're, we're not going to see that again. However, the choke by my Knicks has me a little nervous because you know they go into game two, you can't blow game two and, and Pacers have sown a propensity. They stole game two in Cleveland. Yeah, I mean the thing about Indy is they're completely fearless at home or away, doesn't matter. And I think some of that is, it's almost like hockey. It's when you play fast, the road crowd, you're flying by the crowd. This is not applauding half court offense where the fans are on you. They're just up and down the floor. It's hard to get your arms around Indiana. They're just breakneck, you know I'm not comparing him in any way to the Showtime Lakers but The Celtics could do more half court. The Lakers were up and down the floor. Nash's sons were up and down the floor. Jordan's Bulls could do a lot of half court stuff. So it's just, it's. They just watching Indiana. I, you know, I. Obviously, the New York crowd's insane and wonderful. You can't tell when, where they're playing. Every time the Pacers play, it looks the same. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd, weekdays at noon Eastern, 9am Pacific. And with that, Channing Fry, who started his career in New York for the Knicks, is now joining us live. A man 13 years in the NBA that was. I don't even. It's just crazy. So how do you view. Like I said, I think basketball players are artists. Like I've always said, you're all got your quirky mannerisms and idiosyncratic styles. What do you make of Halliburton and the Choke?

Jason McIntyre (47:07)

First of all, Tyrese is one of the nicest human beings ever. I think when. I think when he got voted most overrated person, I think that was a problem. There was a time when the Pacers were playing the Cavs in the. The crowd started chanting overrated. And Donovan Mitchell was telling them, be quiet. Like the players, stop it. And he went off. I text Tyrese and I said, hey, you are garbage the first three quarters. And then all of a sudden you go into the phone booth and come out like Superman. It's unbelievable, the plays that he does. I wouldn't have never had the wherewithal. You know, most players in that situation would take the two because they're like, oh, I just want to, you know, we'll tie the game up. He had a wide open layup, turned his back, looked at the other clock, found the three point line sort of, and then shot a three over Mitchell Robinson, who's a seven foot dude who has the longest arms. And look at this. Like, this is the layup right here. And he goes, nope. And shot that for game. It's like, you cannot make this up. I played with a lot of great players. I don't know four of the greatest players that I played with that would have shot that shot. But like the belief that he has in himself and his team, that they have. I thought the Pacers in that fourth quarter, they dismantled the Knicks by being a better team where the Knicks had a better player in Brunson.

Colin Cowherd (48:43)

Right.

Jason McIntyre (48:43)

I think OG was the only one who shot a shot in the last five minutes of that fourth quarter into overtime where the Pacers. Everyone had to play Obie Toppin. Niecemith went, absolutely. Who was that? Was that Neesmith Curry like? It was, but it was, it was so good. So good.

Colin Cowherd (49:04)

Channing, you know who he does remind me of? I said this an hour ago. His self awareness, his ability to score but elevate others. He reminds me of a guy you played with, Steve Nash. Nash won an MVP, averaging 15 a game. Came back the next year, won another MVP, averaging 18. Everybody's like, whoa, wait, you can't win an MVP. No, no, no. Yes, you can. Everybody played their best ball but Nash, who's one of the smartest guys I've ever met. I mean, like in or out of sports, Nash had the self awareness. Nash had this. I know he could drive people crazy. He had the self awareness to know the tempo, the score, who was weak, who was infou. It was like a good quarterback. He knew your soft spot and he would attack it. And so I, to me, Halle's got a little Nash in him.

Jason McIntyre (49:50)

I think he has a lot. I think he has a lot. I think he is the only star in our league that can be a star and score 10 points a game. Like, he can have 10 points and he can dominate the whole game. I think he's the only one like that. He is a true past first point guard. And if he wasn't that way, the Pacers would not be who they are. Like, if the Pacers had Brunson, I don't think they would be the Pacers. The fact that every one of their starters scored in that fourth quarter in overtime, the fact that everyone, when they go on a run, everyone knows where the ball's going. They. They believe in their culture. The fact that they stood pat, really didn't bring anyone in last year or this year and just said, hey, we went to the Eastern Conference finals. Let's run this back. Their belief in each other is crazy. And it's because Halliburton is never playing with his ego. He's playing with the fire to win games. So, like, there are games where sometimes he's going to have two points. Now, is that a bad game for him? For sure. But they can still win with him scoring two points because he's doing this all game. He's not. He's not pressuring. But when it's time to win, they all look to him to make a play. And I think we. No one brought this up, but, like, even when they beat the Bucks, you know, there's no way Tyrese Halliburton, I Texted. I told him this on the phone. I said that old week old left to right crossover shouldn't have got past nobody. And you go past Giannis Antetokounmpo and lay that ball up in his face for game. Giannis is a top five defender in the league. And how does you with no muscles, a weird looking jump shot get by him and do this? He goes, I don't know man, I just be, I just got to do what I got to do. And so, you know, for me I think this is going to be a great series. Obviously the game one was nuts. It's going to come down to the Knicks defense and can the Pacers continually play that pace? Well, look at that pace is play with pace in this series. I'm curious to see the changes the Knicks make the next game.

Colin Cowherd (52:00)

Yeah, I said last night Brunson has 43, but he had seven turnovers and he got in early foul trouble. And I said it's almost like being a typist that types 50 words a minute. And Halliburton made Brunson type 70 words a minute. And he, he was, I felt like even though he got the points, I don't think it's one of the great Jalen Brunson games because he had more turnovers last night than he had all year. And I, and I really thought the story of the game is that it was Indy 500 and that's not the Knick style. And I, Indy got them exactly like they wanted. And Brunson kind of said, okay, I'll do this. Maybe it's vanity, ego, I get it. But like I'm like, okay, if you're going to play that way, then you have to win that game in regulation in New York. You can't lose that game.

Jason McIntyre (52:44)

Yeah, I think one thing we're not taking into account is watch that fourth quarter they started double team Brunson aggressively. Remember he got trapped in the backcourt and he just threw the ball. If Siakam was in the right place, that would have been a turnover. They double teamed him, but he fell down, he got a foul. When he gets double teamed, he is very uncomfortable in these situations. And look how many players they put like that. That's a simple double team. Look at this, another double team. So like to me, their offense stalled out in that fourth quarter. And here's the real coming to Jesus moment. They are hunting, hunting him and Cat in screening roles. It is wild to watch you look at the clip. Every time Neesmith made a three, it was except for one, at the end of the game with Josh Smith and Mitchell, which they should have switched, which is a stupid mistake. A Dude who has 17 points and they're running a specific play for him, switch. Let Obi Toppin shoot a three. Anybody else but the dude who's hot? So, like, that was a mental error, but they are going at Cat. And I don't know if you saw the clip of OG Yelling at Cat after, you know, he just laid on that screen. That's going to be a problem because now the three things the Pacers did that game is they found out Russet gets in foul trouble and turns the ball over when you aggressively double team him. 1, 2. Cat does not want to move his feet. End of game, he's exhausted. Three, if you go at Brunson, he stalls the offense out in that fourth quarter because they can't run a screen and roll with him anymore because he's uncomfortable getting double teamed. So if you notice those clips, he's going one on one in Neesmith and Nemhard and shepherd and Halliburton and Siakam, all those dudes are taking turns guarding him. So it's six on one and he's exhausted and no one else is touching the ball. They need to play him as Steph Curry in the fourth quarter instead of Brunson. So he's throw the ball to Cat, run some away screens, get him to run towards the ball. But is he comfortable doing that? And can the Knicks win, play in that game? We'll see. I'm very curious to see how it works.

Colin Cowherd (54:55)

You know, it's so Channing Fry joining us for our radio audience, one of my favorite people that covers this league and talks about it. So New York is fascinating. Jordan had some of his best games there. Kobe had some of his best games there. I mean, Halliburton is having the time of his life. New York's a weird place that it inspires the great players, even though it's a home court advantage. You play, you started your career there. Take my audience to. I remember watching Big east games there, and I'm like, this is crazy. Tell me. Take my audience to playing as a neck, as an opponent in Madison Square Garden. It feels different to me.

Jason McIntyre (55:35)

So, you know, the college experience is like, when you're a really good player or a really good team, the opposing team boos you the whole time. When you go to the Garden, it's like being in the center of, like, you're a gladiator. You're winning the crowd over and that's the problem. That's the problem, because if you start hooping, they. The oohs and ahs are like. It gets you even more adrenaline. And the Knicks fans have so much basketball knowledge that if you do something good, they'll be like, dang, that's a good shot, man. That's tough. Where other fans are like, boo and F you and you suck.

Colin Cowherd (56:15)

Right?

Jason McIntyre (56:15)

They're not saying that. So if you start doing well, it's a problem, because all of a sudden, you're feeding on their adrenaline. You're feeding on shutting them up. And as a Knicks player, you have to each game, win the fans back over. So it's not like you could just walk on the court and be loved. It's. You could walk on the court, miss your first four, and Tracy Morgan's like, stop shooting the ball, you big dummy. You're like, wait, I just had 40 last game. So to me, it is the greatest place to play basketball. And I promise, if anyone has an opportunity to go watch basketball or even, you know, hockey there. It is so historic, so beautiful, but yet it's not a regular arena. No, you are playing, like, at the park where they may talk crap to you, you can talk crap to them. But if you start cooking, look at. Think about with Trae Young. Trae Young pokes at them all the time, and they react to it because it's a movie, it's theater. It encompasses the New York attitude of who's going to give me the best show. They dim the lights on the. In the. In the stadium. So you just focus on the court. It's. It's an. It's. You know, I'm getting goosebumps talking about it. It is such a great opportunity to play there.

Colin Cowherd (57:33)

Well, it starts with Rucker Park. It goes to Broadway. It goes to the Big East Tournament. It goes to New York. New Yorkers are very well versed on great. And they appreciate it. Oh, yeah, listen, I was set about New York. I didn't love the traffic. I didn't love the weather. I loved the people. The people are.

Jason McIntyre (57:50)

Food is great, too.

Colin Cowherd (57:52)

Pizza or hoops. They love their. Okay, let's go. Let's go to Minnesota. Okc. Like. Like, here's the thing with Ant, and I think this is a reality of the modern player. Like, there was never a time with Michael Jordan. I can remember the Utah finals. Mike shot like, 33 times, made seven. Mike went down, swing it. Like, sometimes with Tatum or sometimes with Ant. I'm like, Bro, 13 shots. What's going on. I think the modern player, they're all rich and it's a more collaborative world. And sometimes, like when the shots don't fall, like, guys are like, okay, I'm not gonna. And I just, I grew up with Michael and it's just like, no, Michael didn't have that. He was gonna take the shots. Kobe was gonna take the shots. Could I argue with Ant that he's not forceful enough at times?

Jason McIntyre (58:42)

No. I think the rules are different. When Mike won the ball back in the 90s, the three seconds, he could go play one on one. And if he missed, he missed. Now, if you notice OKC's defense, they basically put their best on ball defender. So they're up and ants jock strap, they force him to drive into help. Look at this. Look how many people are technically guarding him. On that play alone, he had four different people. Look. What does he see right there? So what does he see? Look, he's being double teamed. Triple teamed. Like, this is what I think people don't understand about okc. Double teamed right there. They are making him. They do such a good job of making players have early pickups and throw the ball. These lot passes while guys are just shooting, passing lanes. It's absolutely gorgeous to watch them play. I think Ant doesn't want to settle for threes because that's the only thing they're giving up. They're like, we'll give you threes. We've seen you go over 11. And for him, he doesn't have lanes until his others win a game. Ant is going to have problems finding lanes to attack the rim. So he wants to play good basketball. OKC is forcing him to trust his teammates. Right. And this is the attitude that I've seen in the first game. There's one player on Minnesota that could beat us, and we're not gonna let you play basketball. Anybody else could try and beat us, but we believe in our others more than your others. And it worked. And so Ant, let's say, does shoot 30 times. How many of those are going to be near the rim? Not very many. Yeah, there's going to be 29 threes. He just, he just. It's like in today's game, if you don't have movement, if you're a great one on one guy, the way OKC plays defense, you're not, you're. You're not comfortable. You're not getting to your spot. Because even if one guy gets fouled, trouble. Oh, oh, Lou Dork gets in foul trouble. Oh, here go Caruso. Here Go Isaiah Jones. He go sga, he go. Look how many different people. And like even this play right here, the wherewithal for that team to state to fan out, right, not help and let Chet play that one on one is just their one conscious mind and one thing to notice for the next game or tonight. Watch how many guys when big men are around, you know how guards usually go over the top. Watch how many times they swipe down and don't go for the block. They allow Hartenstein and Jet to be tall while they swipe the ball and make the guy don't have a straight line to go shoot. And I'll give you an example. It's like remember when Junior or swiped at Andre Guadala so he didn't have a dunk during the 2016 finals and he had to go shoot that layup so he knew not to foul, but he just wanted Andre to, you know, kind of avoid him. And it gave LeBron an opportunity to get that block. They do this all game long. It is like such a mind meld to see their discipline on defense. I mean OKC is, is my pick to win at all. I just don't see anybody that has a big man that can take advantage of them inside and then kick out with threes is really the only way to beat him. But you know, like, lord have mercy. Poor, poor Minnesota. They're. They get their others going to need to shoot the ball.

Colin Cowherd (62:05)

All right, let's end with this. Clippers are a well run organization. Lawrence Frank is a smart guy, but Sam Presti stole SGA from them. I remember when he was in Kentucky and came out, I didn't think he was the best Kentucky player. He's a combination of like 8% Kiki Vandaway, 9% Alex English. You know, he's a we a different player that initiates contact, contact. He doesn't have like a loophole move like James Harden. He just, he's just one of these guys that may not jump out. I mean, obviously he's a great player, but I mean, Sam Presti kind of stole him. Are you surprised by how dominant he has become? Did you see it seven years ago.

Jason McIntyre (62:46)

Man, when he was on the Clippers? I remember being in the back going, yo, that dude is good when he gets his opportunity. I thought he'd be a perennial all star. But what Shay does that is great. And people take this, don't take this into account. Watch how many times he puts two feet in the paint. So like his aggression is so constant and continuous. Like every Single one of these clips, he puts two feet in the paint and gets look at his aggression. So we're clipping saying, oh, he's foul baiting. Who goes to the hole more than him? I don't know very many people that constantly go to the hole as much as he does. So let's say he goes to the hole 100 times, he gets fouled 20. Where other people go the hole 20 times, they get fouled five. It's just the way their system is, the way that they have shooters, they spread the floor. But he's a willing passer and they have good shooters. So like, his job is to just get to the paint. Just get to the paint. And man, he just looks at the game. So specifically he works on a certain part. Does his shoulders get a little bigger so now he can bump better? Is his footwork better? Is this, you know, right to left better? Does he like to go left? Does he like to go right? He's looked at this every single year and dissected his game. And so, you know, you talk about Hoopers and guys who are psycho. He is psycho. And that's why he's mvp.

Colin Cowherd (64:09)

Yeah, he's. He's a bit obsessed. I mean, I always said this about Brady. Brady was the best quarterback mechanically I've ever seen. And it allowed Brady to be the best cold weather snow thrower I've ever seen. Wasn't because he had the biggest arm. His mechanics were impervious to weather. His literally, his torque, his shoulders, his feet. I mean, Tom was obsessed. He. He practiced falling instead of getting sacked. And that's sj. Chris, you're watching an artist who has honed his craft. That's. That's what he's done. Okay, now, Channing, Fry, you're so good at this. My man. You gave us 20 minutes.

Jason McIntyre (64:42)

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it, man.

Colin Cowherd (64:43)

And you didn't have to have. You're gonna have you back soon, buddy.

Jason McIntyre (64:48)

Anytime you want, man. I appreciate it. You have a good day.

Colin Cowherd (64:51)

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